Author Topic: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks  (Read 3355 times)

snrdg091012

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Afternoon PDT,

The system description text on Step 5: Add Weapons, Ammunition, and Other Equipment pp. 153-155 does not mention grav decks.

The examples in Step 5: Add Weapons, Ammunition, and Other Equipment provides the following:

Catalyst Game Labs 35004 Strategic Operations lists the tonnage in the example text and price on the Advanced Aerospace Unit Costs Table p. 159
1. Alliance Class Space Station p. 155 right column "..., and a 420-meter grav deck for the comfort of shipboard personnel (500 tons)."

2. Odyssey Class Jump ship p. 156 right column "...., 2 110-meter grav decks (100 tons each), ....",

3. McKenna Class Warship p. 157 left column "....Lynn also installs 3 grav decks - 2 at 45-meter diameter and 1 at 75 meter diameter - at 50-tons each...."

The Advanced Aerospace Unit Costs Table p. 159  lists the cost in C-bills for Grav Deck (under 100m diameter), Grav Deck (100-25mm diameter), and Grav Deck (over 250m diameter).


I did not find any updates in Strategic Operations Errata 2.0 Last Modified: 10/26/2011 indicating that a table to see if there was any information about a table similar to the one in FASA 1718 AT2 p. 74/FanPro 35011 AT2 Revised Edition p. 65 which has the following:

Grav Deck (<100 meter diameter) 50 tons
Grav Deck (150-250 meter diameter) 100 tons
Grav Deck (>250 meter diameter) 500 tons

Is there a table that lists the same information for the Grav Decks cover in FASA AT2 and FanPro AT2 Revised Edition?
Tom R (aka snrdg091012)

Vition2

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #1 on: 02 October 2017, 18:55:58 »
Yes, it's in Tactical Operations, page 407-408 - like most of the advanced rules level equipment.  But nothing's changed you have the correct numbers.

Warship

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #2 on: 02 October 2017, 21:25:10 »
Any info on how wide they are.  Or height?

Vition2

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #3 on: 02 October 2017, 21:57:38 »
Nope.  Grav decks are primarily there for fluff purposes, but were/are common enough to receive a by-line for the mass of the equipment they require.

I personally consider the typical one to be about 20-25 meters wide, but will build them into the warships I create up to 100 meters wide.  As for height/thickness, I'm a bit of mixed opinion on this, if it's a single "story" grav deck, then it would probably be upwards of 15-20 meters - plenty of room for most gym-like activities an sports.  But I also accept that they could be thicker and be multiple "stories," in this case most would be around 5 meters thick and there could be anywhere from 2-5 stories, or more on larger grav decks.

The end result is that, other than the diameter, the actual dimensions are completely up to you or whoever writes the fluff for the ship/station they are being used on with no other bearing on the design rules.

cray

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #4 on: 03 October 2017, 15:38:31 »
Any info on how wide they are.  Or height?

I generally interpreted a gravdeck as being the mechanisms that interface the deck with the non-rotating part of the ship, and the braking/spin-up/balancing mechanisms. The rest of the gravdeck is drawn from the mass assigned to structural integrity, crew quarters, and any equipment in the deck.

This allows a WarShip to have a narrow, 1-deck gravdeck that's 100 meters in diameter, and for a space station to have a 500-meter long, 100-meter diameter gravdeck, all of the same mass...mass of the gravdeck equipment, anyway. The space station obviously put a lot more structural, cargo, and quarters mass into its behemoth deck.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

snrdg091012

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #5 on: 20 October 2017, 01:48:56 »
Evening from WA cray, Vition2, and Warship,

My apologies for not replying sooner but I thought that this forum had a setting that I set to be notified when I posted a new topic or replied to an existing thread. Now, I am playing catch-up and clicking on the notify button.

Thank you Vition2 for confirming the grav desk information and that TO pp. 407-408 lists them.


Warship, I spent time on three submarines and one forward deployed tender in a 20 year Navy career. I use a cross between the deck plan scale from Traveller (C) of either 1.5 m wide x 3 m long x 3 m high or 2 m wide x 2 long x 3.5 high m and T9640-AB-DDT-010/HAB SHIPBOARD HABITABILITY DESIGN CRITERIA MANUAL that can be downloaded from http://habitability.net/WebData/T9640-AC-DSP-010_HAB.pdf.  In the 3.5 meter height the .5 meters is occupied by piping, wiring, and lights. Hopefully the information provided will help.

The material from TO p. 315 gives the following detail "...grav decks are large, structural rings which rotate fast enough to create an approximation of gravity through centrifugal force, ...".  I'm not sure the details match cray's concept, but then again cray is probably right.
Tom R (aka snrdg091012)

cray

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #6 on: 21 October 2017, 20:03:03 »
The material from TO p. 315 gives the following detail "...grav decks are large, structural rings which rotate fast enough to create an approximation of gravity through centrifugal force, ...".  I'm not sure the details match cray's concept, but then again cray is probably right.

I got to expand considerably on the description of gravdecks in Strategic Operations. TacOps had a pretty limited word count to work with.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

snrdg091012

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #7 on: 21 October 2017, 22:07:37 »
Evening cray,

I got to expand considerably on the description of gravdecks in Strategic Operations. TacOps had a pretty limited word count to work with.

Thank you for the work done with grav decks and the explanation provided.
Tom R (aka snrdg091012)

snrdg091012

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #8 on: 23 October 2017, 22:00:36 »
Hello cray,

What is the smallest diameter grav deck that may be installed?
Tom R (aka snrdg091012)

cray

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #9 on: 25 October 2017, 20:12:23 »
What is the smallest diameter grav deck that may be installed?

I recall them as small as 50 meters diameter, though it might be worth browsing TR:3057 to see if smaller ones appear. However, as noted in Strategic Operations, such small gravdecks usually have to run at less than 1G to avoid nauseating occupants. At reduced G levels, they're best used for dining and defecating. (Even in the 31st Century, zero-G toilets are terrible.)

And, yes, per your PM, this is the appropriate board for such questions.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

snrdg091012

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #10 on: 25 October 2017, 21:26:24 »
Evening cray,

I recall them as small as 50 meters diameter, though it might be worth browsing TR:3057 to see if smaller ones appear. However, as noted in Strategic Operations, such small gravdecks usually have to run at less than 1G to avoid nauseating occupants. At reduced G levels, they're best used for dining and defecating. (Even in the 31st Century, zero-G toilets are terrible.)

And, yes, per your PM, this is the appropriate board for such questions.

Thank you for getting back on the smallest diameter and as usual I just found while typing in Strategic Operations on p. 157 that the McKenna has two 45 meter grav decks. I really wished the gremlins would stop hiding material on me in books and online.

Yippee, I got one right now to keep the trend going.

My BT collection from Catalyst Game Labs consists of the Introductory Box Set,  TW PDF, TM Hardcover & PDF, TO PDF, SO Hardcover & PDF, AToW PDF, IO Beta and IO PDFs, and the BattleMech Manual PDF. I've also go most of the free material. The only copy of TR: 3057 I have is FASA 8620.

Tom R (aka snrdg091012)

croaker

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #11 on: 31 October 2017, 21:11:45 »
A useful page for anyone writing fluff about grav decks:

http://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/

Provides calcs on rotation speeds and such for varying diameters and varying desired gravity levels. It also gives some estimates on the comfort level that would be experienced under those circumstances.

For example, a 50m radius for 1g would have to spin at just over 4.2 rpm. This puts the rotation rate at the high end of comfort range, and would probably recommend a lower g-rating or greater diameter -- for best comfort you want the rotation to be less than 2 RPM. For 0.5g this rolls out around 115m radius, for 1g you climb all the way to 225m. This is not to say that people cannot function under higher rotation -- just that people take time to adapt and can suffer a degree of nausea and such for several days while they adjust. Above about 5 RPM you need to be somewhat selective in picking people for their ability to handle it, and at a certain point (somewhere below 10 rpm, not sure exacly where) even the best really can't handle it.



Easy

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #12 on: 31 October 2017, 22:32:13 »
cleanup
« Last Edit: 29 May 2019, 18:42:21 by Easy »

Daryk

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #13 on: 01 November 2017, 03:32:10 »
Even 0.16G is better than no G for what Cray was talking about...

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #14 on: 01 November 2017, 07:03:12 »
Bingo.  You can still use it to prevent bone loss and whatnot.

It's not like the crew won't have access to proper gravity anyway. Anyone on a DropShip or WarShip will be under a full 1G during system transits and similar long-duration burns.
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snrdg091012

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Re: Strategic Operations Designing Advanced Aerosapce Units Grav Decks
« Reply #15 on: 01 November 2017, 11:33:33 »
Morning all from WA,

Thank you Croaker for the link on how to calculate how many Gs spinning the ring at certain rpms generate.

I've just finished Book 7 of the Star Carrier series by Ian Douglas. Of course when I want to quote the generated gravity produced by the spin habitat I cannot find the numbers in any of the books, but IIRC the spin is at maximum enough for 0.5 G. The rest of the ship is in zero G unless maneuvering.

Thank you Easy, Daryk, and Weirdo for the additional comments.
Tom R (aka snrdg091012)