Author Topic: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?  (Read 187 times)

Red Pins

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I'm working on a fiction piece involving Primitive JumpShips and one of the strategic advantages is the smaller emergence wave, making it harder to detect due to its shorter-than-modern Jumps.  My reasoning is the entry for the Scout, one of the smallest surviving JumpShips (ironically, there is no mention of this in the Explorer entry - even though it's only 50,000 tons compared to the Scout's 90,000).

Quote
Sarna: Scout entry

...However, there are also numerous benefits to the Scout design. The first is its tiny emergence signature which is difficult to detect, making the ship ideal for reconnaissance and surprise raids.

Is there anything written about this?  I'm not averse to handwavium, but I'd prefer a canon answer rather than making up my own.
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Ruger

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #1 on: 09 October 2017, 18:25:08 »
The emergence waves of JumpShips and WarShips is predicated on how many DropShips the vessel may carry...the more DropShips a vessel can carry, the larger its emergence wave, even when it's not carrying any DropShips...

See Strategic Operations for the formulas...

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Revanche

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #2 on: 09 October 2017, 20:02:56 »
See Strategic Operations for the formulas...

Specifically, p. 118.

Frabby

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #3 on: 10 October 2017, 00:50:56 »
The impression I got is that the Scout and the Hunter are fluffed to possess a yet smaller jump signature than their relatively small size and single hardpoint would suggest anyways, to the point of being especially notable. However, there are no special rules for this, and no quirk I'm aware of.
Much like the Scout's quicker-than-normal recharge cycle, or the Merchant's slower recharging.
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SCC

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #4 on: 10 October 2017, 02:07:34 »
For the Explorer as it has no docking collars it has no emergence wave.

Red Pins

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #5 on: 10 October 2017, 03:35:28 »
I knew about p118 before asking, actually, but;

Quote
Quote from StratOps, p118

The controlling player makes a Detection Check with a +2 modifier,
as well as an additional modifi er equal to half the distance from
the arriving JumpShip/WarShip in AU (1 AU is approximately
150 million kilometers).

Its a standard jump point - Let's assume an Aquila and a Star Lord jump to the same zenith jump point.

Quote
Quote from StratOps, p118

Apply a further modifier by subtracting the incoming unit’s full
K-F Drive integrity + its DropShip capacity, divided by 10, to
generate a final modified target number for the Detection Check.
Round all fractions up at each stage.

Yes, I know that since P-JS carry their Dropshuttles internally, they don't make it easier to detect.  What I meant to ask was, to put it a different way;


If I make a smaller Jump (say, 15 LY) is the emergence wave of a smaller Jump harder to detect?


Or, for example, is an Aquila harder to detect than a Star Lord (WITHOUT DROPSHIPS) given the Aquila is smaller (the Aquila is only about 36% the size of the Star Lord)?

The impression I got is that the Scout and the Hunter are fluffed to possess a yet smaller jump signature than their relatively small size and single hardpoint would suggest anyways, to the point of being especially notable. However, there are no special rules for this, and no quirk I'm aware of.
Much like the Scout's quicker-than-normal recharge cycle, or the Merchant's slower recharging.

Well - I guess maybe handwavium, then?  I realize the wave is caused by the sudden imposition of matter on the stray dust and particles when it arrives at a Jump - I had hoped there might be some military benefit, but since the volume of the JS will be the same regardless of whether it Jumps 15 LY or 30 LY it seems unlikely.

For the Explorer as it has no docking collars it has no emergence wave.

Seems unlikely given the explained cause.  So, is size (volume) important in casting a small emergence wave, then?
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SCC

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #6 on: 10 October 2017, 05:00:42 »
Sorry, I was confusing with the rules for how long the wave is visible before the JS shows up, the formula multiples length by number of docking collars, so if you have zero docking collars it lasts for 0 minutes.

Frabby

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #7 on: 10 October 2017, 08:39:03 »
Well - I guess maybe handwavium, then? 
Something like that... fluff that doesn't directly translate into rules. Other such cases have been covered with Quirks but not the smaller jump signature. (I think. Not 100% up-to-date on the quirks.)

I realize the wave is caused by the sudden imposition of matter on the stray dust and particles when it arrives at a Jump - I had hoped there might be some military benefit, but since the volume of the JS will be the same regardless of whether it Jumps 15 LY or 30 LY it seems unlikely.
Matter at the jump point is always problematic. I doubt that there could really be stray dust and particles to literally covey a "wave". Instead, my take is that the creation of matter at the destination comes with an omnidirectional burst of energy.

Seems unlikely given the explained cause.  So, is size (volume) important in casting a small emergence wave, then?
We're not told what exactly defines the emergence signature, beyond that mass (not volume) and jump distance factor heavily into the equation. I seem to recall you can even estimate the mass of the incoming vessel, combined with its docked DropShips, pretty accurately from the emergence signature.
It's never been explained how the Scout is supposedly able to be yet stealthier - if that is indeed how the fluff is meant. Perhaps the actual shape of the jumping object does have something to do with it, too, though the Scout isn't exactly an extravagant design...
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Red Pins

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #8 on: 10 October 2017, 09:55:18 »
Um.  Handwavium, then.

"The smaller mass of the Aquila combined with the lack of DropShips on the outer hull make it naturally hard to detect."  Thanks.
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Daryk

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #9 on: 10 October 2017, 21:41:20 »
The deck plans I'm working on for the Scout have docked dropships partially within the radius of the hull.  I didn't intend for that to explain the smaller than usual jump signature, but it certainly could...

Red Pins

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Re: Help! Are emergence waves from Primitive Jumpships smaller?
« Reply #10 on: 11 October 2017, 09:44:05 »
My understanding is, the increased volume protected by the DS K_F boom is converted into that radiation burst (the emergence wave).

So a DS flush (or inset) with the hull might get a smaller volume than a more traditional JS, I guess.  Still no effect on my story, anyway, but interesting.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

 

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