It's Time for Battletech's Setting to "Evolve"

[Aposiopesis]

To me, one of the very interesting things about Battletech is that the average tech level and average lifestyle of the average people in Battletech is very contemporaneous to the time in which it was created; most of Battletech is basically the mid 80's to early 90's with stompy robits and a few gadgets here and there to make it feel like what the 80's thought the turn of the century would feel like. To me, this is awesome, or as a friend describes Battletech "metal af."

However, this is also a problem--the problem is that, in my opinion, Battletech has hung onto this for too long. Battletech is now stuck in "perma 80s" and unlike say, Shadowrun, where most of it still seems "feasibly futuristic" a lot of Battletech (the parts that aren't necessarily supposed to) seems laughably backwards. Nor does it have the "dial it to 11" factor of 40k, where stuff is very intentionally retro-techy. One of Battletech's selling points thematically was its "near contemporary" vibe--but now Battletech has fallen behind the times. As I mentioned Shadowrun, even it has been "upgraded" to be more of a future to modern tech (the addition of wireless, etc)

Should there be new content and a new time leap, I also think it's time for Battletech to appeal to a new generation (as a proper generation has passed since its conception). Similar to how Battletech largely visualized "What would a generation from now (with stompy robits) look like?" that should be the same approach that's taken now.

This is also the reason Dark Age bombed so hard in my opinion--rather than understanding that Battletech was originally a largely contemporaneous universe, the designers made the mistake that it was "retro" (because around 2000 it was starting to be very retro), and tried to go all out 40k retro. For Battletech, that just doesn't work. Familiarity and stompy robits work. "Almost real" is its niche (at least until you start digging further into FASAnomics than you should...).

Perhaps in 3250 (or whatever is next), with the Clans having been around long enough and Comstar being somewhat less busy bodies than they were before (or so they want you to think?), a period of relative economic and technological growth hits the Inner Sphere, and the majority of it undergoes heavy micronization to bring it up to "modern" terms, and maybe they've got just a bit more of what we're just starting to play around with now--quantum computing, gene editing, some cybernetics, daily life AI (think moderately improved Siri, Alexa, Google, no singularity), to name a few.

Along with a completely new (and actually balanced) set of weapons, etc within the existing play rules, largely simplified from the giant mess we have now, I think this would go a long way towards giving Battletech some modern appeal. I know the 80s/early 90s vibe is a  n o s t a l g i c   a e s t h e t i c  one for a lot of us, but us grogs can always go play in our 3025, 3050 etc sandboxes. There's nothing wrong with having something "new."

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Lots of people will disagree for various reasons.  In my case, I don't think BattleTech should ever try to be anything other than a form of Game of Thrones in Space.  I think it's in its place less as a future from a trajectory set in the 1980s vs the 2010s and more a case of being "proper BattleTech" as being the 14th century all over again with giant robots.  A "historical" era presented in space does work elsewhere, see Honor Harrington's universe for an example.

As for why the Dark Age bombed (and whether it even did bomb in the first place) is a topic so complex it threatens to overtake the entire thread.  But I'll feed it anyway:  in my own opinion the resistance to the Dark Age is just a second generation of grognards (the 3050s crowd) being caught dealing with a new setting, and being uncomfortable being the grognards for once rather than being the "new hip" fans who up to that point got to put down the 3025 grognards for not keeping up with the times.

[Easy]

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[Tai Dai Cultist]

Another thought:  Post apocalyptic fiction was a trope of the 1980s, and the BTU is and has always been very much that.  In the 90s the specter of nuclear war dampened, but in more recent years dystopian future and even apocalyptic fiction has made a strong comeback- in the form of Zombie apocalypses.  Maybe *that'd* be a way to update the setting.  The Inner Sphere has been ravaged by a contagious virus that turned people in to crazy cannibals, and the ilClan barely maintains order via selecting tributes from the Great Houses to compete in mech-based Hunger Games...

I'd really, really hate to see that setting be taken seriously but it'd be very much updated for the times.

[Sir Chaos]

Another thought:  Post apocalyptic fiction was a trope of the 1980s, and the BTU is and has always been very much that.  In the 90s the specter of nuclear war dampened, but in more recent years dystopian future and even apocalyptic fiction has made a strong comeback- in the form of Zombie apocalypses.  Maybe *that'd* be a way to update the setting.  The Inner Sphere has been ravaged by a contagious virus that turned people in to crazy cannibals, and the ilClan barely maintains order via selecting tributes from the Great Houses to compete in mech-based Hunger Games...

I'd really, really hate to see that setting be taken seriously but it'd be very much updated for the times.

That´d work as a Halloween or April Fool´s publication, if nothing else.

[Fear Factory]

I would rather have the time spent on modernizing the rules.  The rules are a product of the 80's.

[Frabby]

That´d work as a Halloween or April Fool´s publication, if nothing else.

Do tell!  ;D

[Daryk]

*snip*
I like a lot of things, and I can have them, as long as I don't insist on what everybody else can and can't have all across the BTU on every world in every Era.

This.  So much this...

[Iracundus]

Perhaps in 3250 (or whatever is next), with the Clans having been around long enough and Comstar being somewhat less busy bodies than they were before (or so they want you to think?), a period of relative economic and technological growth hits the Inner Sphere, and the majority of it undergoes heavy micronization to bring it up to "modern" terms, and maybe they've got just a bit more of what we're just starting to play around with now--quantum computing, gene editing, some cybernetics, daily life AI (think moderately improved Siri, Alexa, Google, no singularity), to name a few.

The capital and maybe core worlds of each House could be like that, just as there are worlds out there that are living at the level of the 19th century.  The distances and time lag of interstellar travel creates decentralization of political control but also difficulty implementing state-wide technological standards and uplift (and that's without meddling by entities like Comstar). 

The main thing for me in Battletech is humanity remains humanity.  So transhumanism and the technological singularity never arrive.  At most they lurk on the horizon but never arrive.

[I am Belch II]

I like the timeline going slow. It's better to play catch up. 3150s is good enough for me. I don't want the big time jump they were talking about.

[AlphaMirage]

I like the lack of homogenity, some houses and planets within those houses will have different tech levels they can support with their industry.  Militias will always get the cast offs of the Federal units, the Outback, Trinity Alliance Nations, and Combine will always be backwards.  No one really has an idea of what the FWL worlds will look like cause there is no standard, New Avalon will always have cool high tech stuff. I expect that by the Jihad there were no torture helmet type neurohelmets anywhere in the front or second line units of any Successor State replaced by something that looks more like a modern fighter pilot's helmet.  We just don't get a lot of art with Mechwarriors in their cockpits at that time.

As for Game of Thrones in space, 1000% this, the story and setting of Battletech is and always has been about the grand schemes of cunning Successor Lords each trying to beat the others through any means they can.  It should remain that way, I for one would be content with never reading a Battlemech fight blow for blow, I care more about the motivations of the Generals and Lords.  Every war story is the same for the grunts on the ground.

[massey]

I honestly don't think there's a market for a reboot.  Pen and paper games have taken a massive hit the last 15 years or so.  A lot of those companies are just barely hanging on.  And the giant robot genre isn't nearly as strong as it used to be.  I think there's a good chance that the biggest attraction for players to this game is the retro feel.  Modernize it too much and you really lose that.  I certainly don't think there's much of a market for a "new" rpg system.

If you really want Battletech to succeed in the modern day, the best bet would probably be to make a few 99 cent iPhone games.  Like an overhead action shooter, a mechwarrior-style game, and maybe a more professional version of megamek.  As I understand it, somebody else owns the rights to all the video game stuff, but that would still be the best thing.

[pheonixstorm]

Considering it is Microsoft who owns the electronic rights CGL wouldn't be able to make any money off 99 cent games. Between the cost of programming and the license fee... even PC adapatations of BattleTech don't have that kind of popularity.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

One of the big reasons that Battletech never got a big background tech update the way Shadowrun did is because the background tech is much more integral to the setting.

[Colt Ward]

Well, there are some interesting changes in trends . . . I look forward to HBS product when it finally comes out, mostly b/c I would like to play a updated MechCommander version.  But its a limited game pool . . . MWO has IMO cut down the number of people playing MegaMek- besides the audience it was introduced to getting older, not sure if it could ever be done as a app. 

But there are some bright spots out there for big robots . . . Pacific Rim 2 looks interesting and definitely features action we would recognize.  Not sure if there is a way to carry that over but it should have a bit of combat robot boost/awareness.

[SCC]

I like the timeline going slow. It's better to play catch up. 3150s is good enough for me. I don't want the big time jump they were talking about.

FASA made a LOT of mistakes when it first created BT, the economics of the game being the biggest one and my understanding was that the jump would allow proper fixes to these problems to be applied instead of papering over the cracks. It would also be similar to how we recently got books covering both the Reunification War and the Fall of Terra but nothing in between, it was a time of peace.

[Kidd]

MWDA killed the original fanbase in 4 major ways - 1) drastically reducing Mech numbers, 2) making a time jump, and 3) never filling out the backstory other than "Woo! Jihad! Woo! Stone! Woo! Republic!" and 4) introducing new factions and equipment that was just recognisable enough to invite ugly comparisons with the old stuff. These factors overshadowed the more modern and arguably better fiction and background lore.

Sad to say, this proposal would directly trigger 2 and 4 and perhaps, at least in the beginning, 3 as well.

IMHO nothing would be better than electronicising Total Warfare and TechManual and making some halfway decent sprite graphics to go with it. We all live faster lives now. Digital media is not the future, its the now; minis and tabletop has nowhere to go but down.

My 2 cents.

[ActionButler]

MWDA killed the original fanbase in 4 major ways - 1) drastically reducing Mech numbers, 2) making a time jump, and 3) never filling out the backstory other than "Woo! Jihad! Woo! Stone! Woo! Republic!" and 4) introducing new factions and equipment that was just recognisable enough to invite ugly comparisons with the old stuff. These factors overshadowed the more modern and arguably better fiction and background lore.

While MWDA was happening, yes, I was turned off by all four of those things.  Plus the blind buy.  Plus the pre-painted minis.  In retrospect, though, I think some of the ideas they tried to impose had merit BECAUSE they tried to reduce the complexity ofnthe game and its universe. 

MWDA nurtured a combined arms approach to Battletech in a way that actual Battletech hasn't ever done.  That was, in retrospect, pretty awesome.  I had never given conventional infantry a second thought until ClickyTech rolled around.  i haven't stopped thinking of ways to use them since. 

It also cleaned up the faction and unit bloat.  We've needed that for ages (IMO) but MWDA went about it in a very curious way.  Why completely new (but only sort of) factions?  Why bother bridging the gap?  Just go either/or.  Why reduce the number of mechs, and then further hinder mech nimbers by mostly packing industrialmechs into the boosters?  In retrospect, I'm fine with reduci the number of units, but not if we ALSO replace most of what is left with forklifts. 

I'm no saying that we should try MWDA again, but some of what was attempted may not have been as EVERYTHING IS RUINED as a lot of us (including me) made it out to be at the time.

[Empyrus]

IMHO nothing would be better than electronicising Total Warfare and TechManual and making some halfway decent sprite graphics to go with it. We all live faster lives now. Digital media is not the future, its the now; minis and tabletop has nowhere to go but down.

I think a semi-electronic system will be the future for tabletop games. Think that new Dungeons and Dragons thing. But it won't... shouldn't replace physical table. Online play is not quite the same as local play, and never will be.

[Dracounguis]

MWDA killed the original fanbase in 4 major ways - 1) drastically reducing Mech numbers, 2) making a time jump, and 3) never filling out the backstory other than "Woo! Jihad! Woo! Stone! Woo! Republic!" and 4) introducing new factions and equipment that was just recognisable enough to invite ugly comparisons with the old stuff. These factors overshadowed the more modern and arguably better fiction and background lore.

Sad to say, this proposal would directly trigger 2 and 4 and perhaps, at least in the beginning, 3 as well.

IMHO nothing would be better than electronicising Total Warfare and TechManual and making some halfway decent sprite graphics to go with it. We all live faster lives now. Digital media is not the future, its the now; minis and tabletop has nowhere to go but down.

My 2 cents.

Yes, the Jihad's extensive reach and the fact that most of the leaders of the IS and Clan seemed to go stupid about responding to it properly helped push me away.  Also the lack of novels cooled my interest.  Short stories are ok, but not great at moving the overall story along.  And then they really lowered production of short stories too.  I've not read any Battletech fiction for around 4yrs.  A pile of new gear and Mechs is nice, but doesn't make me want to dive into the universe like a good pile of novels did.

[massey]

While MWDA was happening, yes, I was turned off by all four of those things.  Plus the blind buy.  Plus the pre-painted minis.  In retrospect, though, I think some of the ideas they tried to impose had merit BECAUSE they tried to reduce the complexity ofnthe game and its universe. 

MWDA nurtured a combined arms approach to Battletech in a way that actual Battletech hasn't ever done.  That was, in retrospect, pretty awesome.  I had never given conventional infantry a second thought until ClickyTech rolled around.  i haven't stopped thinking of ways to use them since. 

It also cleaned up the faction and unit bloat.  We've needed that for ages (IMO) but MWDA went about it in a very curious way.  Why completely new (but only sort of) factions?  Why bother bridging the gap?  Just go either/or.  Why reduce the number of mechs, and then further hinder mech nimbers by mostly packing industrialmechs into the boosters?  In retrospect, I'm fine with reduci the number of units, but not if we ALSO replace most of what is left with forklifts. 

I'm no saying that we should try MWDA again, but some of what was attempted may not have been as EVERYTHING IS RUINED as a lot of us (including me) made it out to be at the time.

It got me to quit playing for over a decade, so it accomplished that.

[SCC]

MWDA killed the original fanbase in 4 major ways - 1) drastically reducing Mech numbers, 2) making a time jump, and 3) never filling out the backstory other than "Woo! Jihad! Woo! Stone! Woo! Republic!" and 4) introducing new factions and equipment that was just recognisable enough to invite ugly comparisons with the old stuff. These factors overshadowed the more modern and arguably better fiction and background lore.

Sad to say, this proposal would directly trigger 2 and 4 and perhaps, at least in the beginning, 3 as well.

While you don't say that you're first point will be triggered by this it probably will be as well, I don't know for sure but I figure that the total number of designs has at least doubled since MWDA was launched, and given that one complaint/problem is having to lug around so many books, cutting back there is a good idea. And a time jump was made or less successfully with the 20 Year Update to the Clan Invasion, heck technically we've just had another one from the end of the Jihad to the Dark Age.

IMHO nothing would be better than electronicising Total Warfare and TechManual and making some halfway decent sprite graphics to go with it. We all live faster lives now. Digital media is not the future, its the now; minis and tabletop has nowhere to go but down.

Not happening, would cost too much and I see a lot of people of these forums saying they don't want to buy digital books.

And you and AB missed one problem with MWDA: No proxying, a hallmark of BT. Proxying is possible in 40K and Warmachine, you just can't do it in tournament, but a pick up game between friends? Yeah. Not in MWDA.

[SteelRaven]

It got me to quit playing for over a decade, so it accomplished that.

FanPro was publishing Classic BT the same time as MWDA, no one was forcing BT fans to play Clikytech. What really hurt BT was the IP getting split up, CGL had to jump through all sorts of hoops just to get this far with novels years after requiring the rights to the table top. Rights to a animated series may be lost to legal limbo and would cost way more than what it's worth to get it back. Don't get me started how painful it is to be a MW fan after all these years.

I just hope the community doesn't scare away any new blood, I have had my run ins with some very combative players who do their best to chase away anyone with new ideas. The fans are what kept this game alive all these years, it would be painful if that's what kills it. :(       

[Kidd]

MWDA nurtured a combined arms approach to Battletech in a way that actual Battletech hasn't ever done.  That was, in retrospect, pretty awesome.  I had never given conventional infantry a second thought until ClickyTech rolled around.  i haven't stopped thinking of ways to use them since.

Yup, and Total Warfare brought that experience to CBT in solid fashion.

I think a semi-electronic system will be the future for tabletop games. Think that new Dungeons and Dragons thing. But it won't... shouldn't replace physical table. Online play is not quite the same as local play, and never will be.

Sure. A lot of people felt the same way about deadtree vs e-books too. But convenience and cost efficiency won out. While we're sitting around contemplating pewter army men, computer games are light-years ahead and still growing.

Of course I recognise that even leaving aside legal issues, it would take a decent slug of capital to turn Battletech electronic. But if we're talking in terms of rejuvenating paradigm shifts for the game, IMHO this is it. Not another time jump or rules reordering, cuz that'll just cannibalise the existing fanbase.

After all, for all that minis are fun, ask yourself honestly: if Megamek had never been developed, would Battletech be more alive than it is today? Or deader?

And a time jump was made or less successfully with the 20 Year Update to the Clan Invasion, heck technically we've just had another one from the end of the Jihad to the Dark Age.

Not as major a jump as what is proposed here, or happened with MWDA.

[marauder648]

Initially I loathed the DA stuff and clickytech, I thought the whole premise of mass disarmament in the setting insane and the surge of industrial mechs just bonkers.  But then in more recent fluff books they have done their best to limit the damage done and re-wrote a lot of the fluff so it wasn't en-mass stupidity.  But I like the setting, and it HAS evolved, all be it in fits and starts over the years.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Let's try to remember that much as we disliked Clickytech, while it was in print it enjoyed a level of popularity that standard Battletech has never come close to.

[ActionButler]

And you and AB missed one problem with MWDA: No proxying, a hallmark of BT. Proxying is possible in 40K and Warmachine, you just can't do it in tournament, but a pick up game between friends? Yeah. Not in MWDA.

Good call.  That comes back around to the blind buy booster packs, too.  For something like HeroClix, where you've got the good guys and the bad guys, blind buys probably work pretty well.  For a wargame, with several discrete factions and no unit sharing, its a very different story.  I won't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to have to play the faction that I have the most stuff for, I want to play the faction that I want to play. 

[Garrand]

FanPro was publishing Classic BT the same time as MWDA, no one was forcing BT fans to play Clikytech.

This is not entirely true. There was perhaps around a year to several months between when MWDA launched & when Fanpro got the license to continue publishing Battletech. I know a bunch of local fans thought the only way we could continue in this universe was to adopt MWDA. When it was announced that Battletech would continue, it was like a breath of fresh air. I think the Collectible Miniatures Market bubble had more to do with the death of MWDA than anything...

Back to the original topic, no I don';t think the setting should change or be updated. There are enough updates to keep it "contemporaneous" enough, but if you wanted to modernize the game, might as well ditch it as it is and do a total ground-up reboot. Not something I would want to see or advocate...

Damon.

[Kovax]

I can't see a reboot as a good idea.  Modernizing the setting for the next time jump, particularly to address the "Fasanomics" mess, and either expanding the limits on information access at the local level or else making it clear that access to information is heavily restricted throughout most societies to those "authorized", might make some sense.  I wouldn't want to see another jump forward for quite some time, however, because there's been insufficient time to flesh out the current era.  Maybe another 5-10 years down the road.....?

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