Poll

So if we gotta retcon, how far back do we go?

All the way back (2012 and sooner)
82 (22.7%)
Early Spaceflight (2013-2397)
11 (3%)
Age of War (2398-2569)
15 (4.2%)
Star League (2570-2779)
10 (2.8%)
Kerensky's Exodus (2780-2785)
6 (1.7%)
First Succession War (2786-2829)
3 (0.8%)
Second Succession War (2830-2865)
0 (0%)
Third Succession War (2866-3025)
11 (3%)
Fourth Succession War (3026-3029)
10 (2.8%)
Post-Fourth War (3030-3048)
10 (2.8%)
Early Clan Invasion (3049-3052)
19 (5.3%)
Late Clan Invasion (3053-3062)
9 (2.5%)
FedCom Civil War (3063-3067)
11 (3%)
Jihad (3068-3085)
23 (6.4%)
Republic Era (3086-3130)
21 (5.8%)
Dark Age (3131-3150)
25 (6.9%)
NEVER! YOU CAN RETCON MY UNIVERSE WHEN YOU PRY THE DICE FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!
95 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 361

Voting closed: 31 October 2012, 17:39:19

Author Topic: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?  (Read 36457 times)

Blacksheep

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #120 on: 14 October 2012, 20:53:23 »
Maybe, but as I put under the other thread, many of us have posted our issues with certain aspect of the game over the years.  My personal pet peeve was always weapons ranges and effects, for example.  Some were addressed to one degree or another along the way.  However, with the release of the latest avalanche of products to include the TW series and ATOW I feel it is too late to go back for a major retcon with the expense of those books IMHO...it just doesn't seem fair to the majority of game players.  Again, my only caveat would be if the change was driven by marketplace competition and the survival of the game were at stake...my two cents.

PsihoKekec

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #121 on: 15 October 2012, 00:42:39 »
Quote
My personal pet peeve was always weapons ranges and effects, for example.
Well, that's one the aim of the blank check retcon. By introducing Minovsky particle and the limitations they inflict on targeting, the weapon ranges become feasible, due to targeting limitations.
Shoot first, laugh later.

Blacksheep

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #122 on: 15 October 2012, 02:03:26 »
I know...perhaps I'm getting old, but if I only cared about whatever I care about then where would that leave us?  On one hand, yes, if FASAnomics, FASAphysics, and FASAweaponstech could all be repaired with a magic wand then great...as long as it's within the scope of what I like.  Get it?  However, what would I be giving up?  I know there are those out there who don't like LAMs, Warships, d6, d10, d20, etc., or much of anything else they can't win at while equipped with beer goggles and a bag of pretzels.  I want variety and options to play the way I want to play.  Right now, I think we have that.  Is it perfect?  No, but I can work with where we're at so that was the point of my earlier posts.

Youngblood

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #123 on: 16 October 2012, 16:07:39 »
The concept of the Star League is hamfisted and reeks of Mary Sue.  It is an atrocity.  Why have a history of a Star League if the point of the entire universe is war amongst nations?

Bergie

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #124 on: 16 October 2012, 16:51:19 »
Why did the world have a Pax Romana?

It was the result of the times, and to be honest most of the fiction and storyline from there happened well in the past.  As such, the 'peacetech' is only for people who REALLY want to play in that era (or in the Republic era).  If you want to play warmonger, then you have the Age of War, Succession Wars, Invasion, Jihad. . .
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Youngblood

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #125 on: 16 October 2012, 16:53:19 »
Why did the world have a Pax Romana?

Because the world was not just the Roman Empire back then.  Let's not also forget all the wildmen they were curbstomping at the borders.
« Last Edit: 16 October 2012, 16:55:50 by Youngblood »

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #126 on: 16 October 2012, 19:09:35 »
The concept of the Star League is hamfisted and reeks of Mary Sue.  It is an atrocity.  Why have a history of a Star League if the point of the entire universe is war amongst nations?

Because 400 years of war and counting are all the more tragic after 300-odd years of peace.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #127 on: 16 October 2012, 21:59:16 »
Never, we have a good thing here, novels, source books, a (horrible) TV show. Do we really want to throw all that away? We don't need a reset, it would invalidate everything that draws pretty much everybody to the game.
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Youngblood

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #128 on: 17 October 2012, 02:08:14 »
Because 400 years of war and counting are all the more tragic after 300-odd years of peace.

How tragic can one really be feeling about a long-dead super space international organization while he or she is trying to have fun blowing his or her fellow armored humans to scrap?  Centuries of events can't really be consciously comprehended by individual people while they are in steaming-hot cockpits pulling the trigger.

And that's just speaking in-universe.  Out-of-universe, a character or organization trying to use ties to the Star League just sounds like attempting to put additional prestige or honoure (note the additional "u" and "e" added for importanceses) to their name or reputation.  It's really quite arbitrary and bogus after so long.  Like genealogy!

eddie

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #129 on: 17 October 2012, 03:34:52 »
When you care to look at real Human History writings you will find the same patterns.

Specialy in Europe.

Roman Empire = Star League glorified to the Bones golden times a time period from which current humanity should learn and a lot of lies about universal peace (the Mars Tempel was closed for 2 weeks during the Pax Romana and even that was a lie)

Medieaval = Sucession Wars Dark times with one conflict errupts another one cruel, Dark, Inquistion you get the picture

Now = Dark Age Now everything is getting better but we didn't reach the standards of the golden times.

Also during many wars between France and Germany they justified their actions based on the Roman Empire and thats a timeframe of 1000 years.

And yes people believed that!

Youngblood

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #130 on: 17 October 2012, 03:37:54 »
Also during many wars between France and Germany they justified their actions based on the Roman Empire and thats a timeframe of 1000 years.

And yes people believed that!

Considering how most of the people in the world back then didn't know how to read and believed much more of what their lieges told them, I don't find that terribly surprising.

HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #131 on: 17 October 2012, 04:23:20 »
Hello,

Try staying on topic, shall we?

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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Youngblood

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #132 on: 17 October 2012, 07:22:34 »
Yessir!

In the end, the Star League was much more of a useful bargaining tool for its member states rather than whatever it may have been intended for.  Its fall was just the movement of hidden hostilities...back into becoming enthusiastically sincere hostilities.  Perhaps from that perspective, the Succession Wars were actually beneficial for the return of "honor", wouldn't you say?

I find it shameful that players willingly wax poetic about the glory of the Star League and then turn around and poo-poo the Dark Age as "PeaceTech".  Just because there were fewer giant robots around didn't mean the idea of giant robots fighting other giant robots disappeared.  Quite strangely, the art of 'Mech combat may have actually become more...efficient since then.  Egalitarian, even.  Also, Vibroblades are awesome.

beachhead1985

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #133 on: 17 October 2012, 13:07:50 »
I'd start with the Jihad in order to eliminate the republic and the darkage.

Goodbye Jihad, hello 5th succession war! Mad Max 3025-era play with better tech in the mix.
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Nebfer

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #134 on: 17 October 2012, 14:45:57 »
Well I would go as far back as I could, fixing inconsistency's wherever possible, making the universe more streamlined if you will instead of a patchwork of fluff which may not work always together, or perhaps do but are a bit haphazard in application.

A more consistent art package might be nice, perhaps each faction having it's own style, or perhaps not?
A more consolidation of the number of units however would be nice, while the main draw is the TROs, however it seems its difficult to tell if a unit is actually replacing another unit in service. Though this dose not necessarily mean the replaced unit should get completely replaced right off the bat, it could go to militia or mercenary or even pirate use for a time.

Though unit design for some units should improve, for example IIRC large aerospace units could differently need some improving, IIRC you (Herb) mentioned once that current warships are "so bad" that it makes it difficult to place a older design to that ship in universe...

The industrial and military size is one of the more broken aspects of the B-tech universe in the game, this could be improved, though a true fix is not realy needed however even a partial fix can be useful.


Well one thing I would like to see put to rest is the notion that depending on your view point current day military vehicles could easily beat it's B-tech counter parts. It's kinda jarring to know that depending on your view it's possible that the B-tech unit around could easily get defeated by a unit that was technically made 1,000 years ago in B-techs past, and this dose not even have to be along military lines, you can look at civilian vehicles, electronics and what naught...

In some ways this is part of B-tech flavor... So I do not think we need AIs, anti gravity, and what naught, but what B-tech dose have should be made a bit more clear that it while perhaps not as flexible as current tech it at lest dose what it dose a lot better than what we have, or at the lest roughly equal in capability (I have found a number of references to gigabyte and terabytes in the fluff for instance).

Also better attempts to explain why some things are would be nice instead of as some guys I know would say as badly done half-arsed attempts.

One example is it seems even though it's said that the ranges in game are their for play ability reasons and not necessarily what they could be in the B-tech universe but the fluff still uses them like crazy! So which is it?


Edit:
Another thing I would like to see changed is the notion that the Gauss Rifle fires a large spherical nickel iron cannon ball, to something else...
« Last Edit: 17 October 2012, 15:05:19 by Nebfer »

Ice_Trey

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #135 on: 19 October 2012, 09:15:15 »
Myself, I really like the storyline as it is, My only qualm is the period between the Clan invasion and Operation Bulldog. It might be because I was just some kid with only the Mechwarrior games as the basis of my knowledge of the game, but it felt like a bit of a void, with all the factions rushing to come to par with the clans. The few wars that did happen during that time really didn't feel like anything significant - mere footnotes at best.

I was a little surprised that other people voted "All the way back" by such a huge degree, but I have a feeling that this isn't based off of their disliking the fiction. If anything, early Battletech fluff seems to be the one thing that everyone agrees on liking, so I can't imagine that the votes turned out that was because they didn't like it.

Instead, I think why the "All the way back" option was taken so frequently is because the fluff for the pre KF-Drive era is so very Reagan-era hokey. Soviet Civil Wars? Mining operations on asteroids? That might have been alright to swallow a quarter-century ago, but it really kills that suspension of disbelief that we can enjoy with this series.

As such, instead of rewriting the whole thing, I think that what we really want is a rewrite of the early history - the stuff that really doesn't have a significant effect on the universe as a whole - so pretty much everything leading up to the Age of War should be fair game for a retcon (And I'd even say scrap the Dark Age stuff if we could, but there are still fans of that out there that I have to consider). Rewriting when humanity sets out to colonize the stars shouldn't have an adverse effect on the universe, nor will it make loved Battletech stories like the Warrior trilogy or Wolves on the Border obsolete.

SeeM

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #136 on: 28 October 2012, 06:02:08 »
Myself, I really like the storyline as it is, My only qualm is the period between the Clan invasion and Operation Bulldog. It might be because I was just some kid with only the Mechwarrior games as the basis of my knowledge of the game, but it felt like a bit of a void, with all the factions rushing to come to par with the clans. The few wars that did happen during that time really didn't feel like anything significant - mere footnotes at best.

Clans vs Sphere is a classic conflict, with easy plot, clear terms, clear goals and epic scale. There are two opposite sides with different feeling and style: "I'm the Clan, I challenge you by honor and SLDF." and "I'm IS, I fought to re-establish League four times and that was hell, so F**K U!". You are either Clan or IS and that's it. Like Mordor and Gondor, USA and CCCP,  Rebel and Empire. And like them it has it's beginning and end.

It prefer it over IS neverending story. It's easy to write a script based on invasion era. Less to explain and more time for action.
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Rorke

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #137 on: 28 October 2012, 07:23:05 »
Going back to that whole 3025 style mad max thing would kill this for me.   Maintaining
an interstellar war on breadcrumbs does not strike me as viable, or more importantly fun.

If you all want to meddle, fix the DA into something meaningful you know with actual mechs
again.
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Decoy

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #138 on: 28 October 2012, 20:44:59 »
To be fair, it seems like things were ramped up after the first few years. When it stopped being about groups of partisans and the like.

Wombat

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #139 on: 29 October 2012, 13:49:39 »
Any earlier than the (common) use of the Battlemech and you've just invalidated the point of a retcon in Battletech, IMO. I would say, therefore, somewhere around the 3rd Succession War.
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Wolflord

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #140 on: 31 October 2012, 16:59:00 »
Delete the Mad Max era or explain it away as events just happened to be on some atypical dirt poor planets.

Refusal war needs fixing something like - Ulric sees the writing on the wall, decides to unify Wolves by launching preemptive attack on Falcons (we get that there are wardens and crusaders by that stage we dont need a sham trial to explain it to us) in the OZ and in the homeworlds - cut out all the legalise shenanigans and just have one clan or the other win and go from there without magic sibkos.

Fedcom Civil War needs more outside interventions - lots of piranahs nibbling round the edges - and more provincial rulers getting uppity.

Jihad did what it needed to do.

War of reaving - excellent

HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #141 on: 31 October 2012, 17:15:54 »
Hello,

*checks calendar*

Last Day, folks!

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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Dracounguis

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #142 on: 15 November 2012, 01:03:22 »
Just Retcon the whole Dark Age out of existence and I'll be happy.

One of Battletech's strengths is its history.  If you change that, you might as well kill it off.

For instance, when Eureka (the goofy show on Syfy), up and changed their universe, I stopped watching.  Was like the last 3-4 years of watching it was for nothing.  I really hate when you 'invest' in a character and then some bored goober of a writer goes and up-ends everything 'just because'.

HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #143 on: 15 November 2012, 05:28:08 »
Hello,

Sorry, but this poll has expired. We nevertheless appreciate your input.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas