Poll

So, a retcon happens: How significant should it be?

[Story] Minor. (Examples: Statistical data or imagery changes that tweak universe factoids but have little impact on story. Changes to population numbers, economic factors, planetary data, force sizes, the look of the Unseen, etc.)
166 (20.1%)
[Story] Modest. (Examples: A single event outcome changes that ripples through the story but doesn't change balance of power that much, such as Ian Davion not dying on Mallory's World or GDL surviving Hesperus II)
95 (11.5%)
[Story] Major. (Examples: A major event or series of events change entirely--or fail to occur--that results in a new balance of power, such as the Fourth War being aimed at Kurita instead of Liao, or Kurita winning the Davion War of Succession)
56 (6.8%)
[Story] Severe. (Examples: A fundamental change is made to the entire balance of the setting, such as the destruction of the SLDF before its Exodus preventing the creation of the Clans, or the deletion of any of the five Great Houses from canon.)
23 (2.8%)
[Story] Extreme. (Examples: The universe is rewritten from scratch; nothing is guaranteed and all previous canon is null and void.)
34 (4.1%)
[Story] NONE! (I DON'T CARE IF IT MAKES NO DAMNED SENSE! CHANGE A THING AND IT'S WAR, HERB! WAAAAAR!)
37 (4.5%)
[Game] Minor. (Examples: Minor rules changes and bug-fixes are made, such as a change to some modifiers, redistribution of units on RATs, change of the hex scale.)
134 (16.2%)
[Game] Modest. (Examples: A swath of rules tweaks are made that shifts game balance to a small degree or changes one aspect of design, such as a rewrite of large spacecraft construction, or a change in dice mechanics from D6 to D12.)
147 (17.8%)
[Game] Major. (Examples: Game play is overhauled on numerous fronts by a series of sweeping tech and rules changes, such as eliminating ProtoMechs/battle armor/WarShips entirely from the setting, eliminating hexes or hit locations from play.)
38 (4.6%)
[Game] Severe. (Examples: An entire core aspect of the game is rewritten or deleted, such as eliminating all non-'Mech units from play, replacing the core game with a Quick-Strike version of itself, eliminating construction/customization rules.)
11 (1.3%)
[Game] Extreme. (Examples: The game is rewritten from scratch; all rules and stats written from before this change are rendered wholly incompatible and anything goes--up to and including BattleMechs themselves.)
30 (3.6%)
[Game] NONE! (KEEP YOUR PAWS OFF THOSE GAME RULES, YOU DAMN, DIRTY APES!)
55 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 452

Author Topic: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?  (Read 38549 times)

Wolflord

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #120 on: 13 October 2012, 09:02:25 »
Morale rules can be found on pg 211-213 of TO.  Morale and fatigue outside of combat are on pg 38-41.  The latter include the rules for force quality, loyalty, mutiny, desertion, etc

Thanks Sartis, guess I'll need to get a copy of TO one of these days.

Wolflord

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #121 on: 13 October 2012, 09:04:30 »
Is this not already done?  Vehicles are fairly easy to mobility kill, in my experience.

Hi Legion, I was meaning in an extreme blowing up and scattering debris kind of way.  :)

Legion

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #122 on: 13 October 2012, 18:24:38 »
Hi Legion, I was meaning in an extreme blowing up and scattering debris kind of way.  :)

Ah, I see.  I do love explosions!

Diablo48

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #123 on: 13 October 2012, 22:41:30 »
Ah, I see.  I do love explosions!

Unfortunately for vehicle crews, this seems to be the opinion of combat vehicle engineers as well.  Seriously, would it kill them to use CASE more often? #P


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Belisarius

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #124 on: 13 October 2012, 23:13:52 »
I think some moderate storyline changes might help smooth out some of the more glaring sillynesses (like FASAnomics) inherent in the universe we all inherited. As far as game mechanics, I think very limited changes would be necessary to move forward into awesomeness. Perhaps adding a new layer of armor to advanced designs making the current armor set work something like the BARs or industrial armors and thereby rendering current weapons significantly less effective and primitive. This would only require a minor retcon in terms, assigning the new words to old armors.

Blacksheep

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #125 on: 14 October 2012, 06:58:22 »
I voted minor...I have my issues with the game, particularly weapon ranges and effects, and I have pleaded my case ad nauseum.  Now, with the release of TW and ATOW and so much other (expensive) game and source material over all these years, it's too late in the game now so to speak :P  The only way I would change my mind is if it's a question of keeping the game competitive and solvent within the marketplace then I would understand...in which case, I hope the powers that be make their changes wisely 8) 

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #126 on: 14 October 2012, 17:01:02 »
I voted extreme...because I'm that kind of guy...no faction loyalties, no games mechanics loyalties at all.

Miatezhnyi8D

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #127 on: 15 October 2012, 00:03:01 »
Story - minor -- clean-up economics, population/force sizes
Rules - modest -- fix unit construction/sizes so we don't have mm thin armor everywhere

Youngblood

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #128 on: 16 October 2012, 16:12:15 »
PROTOMECH FLUFF, FURRY, GAH, WHY?

vidar

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #129 on: 16 October 2012, 16:51:03 »
I would like to see modest changes.  I like the story, but can see the issues and contradiction in it.  So clean it up, and have some fun along the way O:-).  Really it is not the first time that the victor wrote a false history so feel free just keep the basics here, Jumpships, battle mechs, the great houses, clans, and no aliens. As for the rules, modest changes as well, I like to be able to scale my games form the high interstellar down to the tactic.  It just needs some clean up of the construction rules, and you can take the construction rule out over my very, very, dead body.  They are the most troublesome rules and the best thing about the game. >:D. So do what is needed but try to keep the feel and history of the game alive.

Nebfer

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #130 on: 25 October 2012, 00:48:56 »
Story: Modest
Fixing FASAnomics, dropping the populations a bit (helps show the aftermath of the Succession wars a bit, particularly if the "old numbers" are the before the wars started populations) however I do not think we need a massive culling like some, also increase the military size by a bit as well would go a good way to reducing this issue. Furthermore an enlarged number of transports would also be useful in this area as well. Furthermore I have never been realy a fan of company and battalion sized units being critical units in holding or taking world(s). Though useful for objective & commando raids, as well as a bunch of other tasks, but conquering worlds not so much...

Also fix the inconsistency's and or hokey parts of the story, that have occurred over the years.
Basically go through the time line and write it from the ground up in one go, removing what needs to be removed, fixing what needs to be fixed, correcting that what needs to be corrected.
Fluff wise flesh out why the weapons and gear are like they are (I.e. why do missiles come in swarms instead of single rounds, or why the range is as such?). One thing I think might be useful is a "Tech bible" of sorts, a book that describes what a item of tech is, and what it dose. For a reference so that writers would have a better idea what a particular item is and what it can do (not necessarily in absolutes but at the lest a minimum value). Reducing the inconsistent ability's in the fluff (I.e. In book 1 is has X weapon with a velocity as X, in book 2 the same weapon has velocity Y...).
Art wise it would be nice to have a reference sheet for various components so that when a artist is tasked to draw a mech (assuming the stats are done before hand) they would have a idea of what a component looks like, thus reducing some of the problems that older art had (like small lasers being bigger than Gauss rifles...).

Rules: Modest
More of a mild rewrite of the rules to streamline them, and or fix inconsistency's, speeding up the game play would be nice, though keeping the core elements intact would be good. Basically fixing some of the issues that have plagued the game for some time. Improving the balance of the auto cannons over energy weapons would be nice, reducing the MG ammo bombs, ect. Fixing the Range issue, either by describing why the range is, or by making the weapons have a longer range either via game play or fluff... another thing that could be fixed is changing engine weights, why do they need to be so heavy... their not in real life... (typically the mass a tank spends on getting it moving seems to be around 15-25% of it's over all mass (tracks, engine, fuel, suspension and transmission))

Though I would not mind spacecraft getting some modifications, increasing mass for Armor (so that it's not tin foil), as well as fuel, with a reduction in KF drive to compensate, as well as removing or changing the rules for that solar sail... (the energy one gets via solar recharge is vastly different than what one gets via fusion recharging).
« Last Edit: 25 October 2012, 01:11:50 by Nebfer »

Asmo

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #131 on: 25 October 2012, 04:10:31 »
If I could retcon the game system I would change the technology of the invading clans.

I would retcon the invading clan tech to the improved versions of the IS tech in Total Warfare. So clan ER Medium laser would be equivalent to IS ER Med lasers. This gives the game somewhere to go with technology innovation, Combine that with Total Warfare rules level for both sides so that by the time we get to the Republic of the Sphere there is just one technology used which is the current Clan tech.

Currently the separation of technologies just does not make sense to me when compared to the innovation and proliferation of technology throughout human history. Nothing has driven innovation more than war. Enemies have always stolen, broken down and replicated or just plain kidnapped and tortured the enemy to gain the technology required. On this count the Inner Sphere is the most innept group of humans EVER!

Rob
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The Mighty ACHOO

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #132 on: 29 October 2012, 19:36:09 »
The thing I would like to see is how the difference between standard I.S. tech, Star League tech, and Clan Tech is handled. No real major differences in the weapons themselves, but have "standard" tech units use d6 dice, Star League tech units use d8 dice, and Clan tech units use d10 dice. Basically the biggest differences in the weapons are not the weapons, it is the targeting systems. This would also clean up the insane number of weapons systems we have now. Sure, it is neat, but there is something to say about the simplicity the game used to have before the Clans showed up.
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Mastergunz

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #133 on: 30 October 2012, 15:47:54 »
If I could retcon the game system I would change the technology of the invading clans.

I would retcon the invading clan tech to the improved versions of the IS tech in Total Warfare. So clan ER Medium laser would be equivalent to IS ER Med lasers. This gives the game somewhere to go with technology innovation, Combine that with Total Warfare rules level for both sides so that by the time we get to the Republic of the Sphere there is just one technology used which is the current Clan tech.

Currently the separation of technologies just does not make sense to me when compared to the innovation and proliferation of technology throughout human history. Nothing has driven innovation more than war. Enemies have always stolen, broken down and replicated or just plain kidnapped and tortured the enemy to gain the technology required. On this count the Inner Sphere is the most innept group of humans EVER!

Rob

Funny you mention that, I was having the exacy same thought reading through this thread.  O0

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HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #134 on: 31 October 2012, 17:16:13 »
Hello,

*checks calendar*

Last Day, folks!

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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snakespinner

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #135 on: 14 November 2012, 02:10:46 »
Some major story changes would be great.
Something to make BC live in interesting times. [cheers]
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Wolflord

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #136 on: 14 November 2012, 13:56:28 »
Don't change anything but the Refusal War.

A winner, preferably the wolves

A loser, preferably the falcons

No exiles, unless the wolves leave/get kicked out en masse

HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #137 on: 14 November 2012, 14:10:51 »
Hello,

Sorry; this poll has been concluded. And we are not taking requests at this time.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas

Dracounguis

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #138 on: 15 November 2012, 01:08:24 »
Hello,

So, this is part 2 of the Retcon Reset discussion: How much change can we bear?

I'm getting the distinct feeling that retcon is coming no matter what anyone says.
So, what part of the game has you all bothered, HABeas2?

HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 2): How BIG a change are we talking...?
« Reply #139 on: 15 November 2012, 05:26:28 »
Hello,

Sorry, but this poll has expired, and your question exceeds the boundaries of the discussion. Therefore, it will not be answered.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas

 

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