Author Topic: Unified Doctor Who thread  (Read 147397 times)

ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1260 on: 18 May 2017, 13:19:46 »
It was a very good body horror story, but I don't think the basic premise of the episode hung together very well.

If the suits were capable of independent operation, why did they need a human inside at all?

cheers,

Gabe

Same reason stores with self checkouts need cashiers, I suppose, given the nature of the episode. ;) :)
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ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1261 on: 18 May 2017, 13:22:51 »
And Missy!  He shouldn't remember Missy either!

so what's she doing in that vault? How does the Doctor even know who she is?
Clearly there's a lot of stuff that happened off-screen between "Hell Bent" and the start of the current season.

Maybe we'll get comics and audio plays one day...


cheers,

Gabe

From what I've seen(I believe from the little bit of Class that I saw, and Hell Bent), he apparently remembers most of it.  He probably at least knows about Missy.  Of course, there was an urban legend(I wish I could find the source on it), that supposedly there was a deleted scene that revealed that the Doctor did remember it, but couldn't let Clara know.
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ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1262 on: 21 May 2017, 00:05:00 »
Well, that answers which Master's in the vault, and why she's there.  So, I guess the Doctor's now got a bit of an upper hand.  And leave it to Missy to figure out how to cheat death.  She's just never needed the Doctor's help in doing so.
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ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1263 on: 23 May 2017, 23:21:51 »
Well, had a discussion in one of my groups about the episode, and it's something I didn't think about until after the fact.  So, it's a given that the TARDIS generally does an auto translate for almost all languages(save for the Judoon language, and written Gallifrian), someone pointed out that the TARDIS didn't translate the Italian the Vatican guys where using.  I kind of had the theory(and this kind of was the consensus) that since the whole thing was a simulation, they didn't see the need to factor in the translation circuits on the TARDIS.  Thoughts?

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YingJanshi

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1264 on: 30 May 2017, 22:30:22 »
So, "The Pyramid at the end of the World" was rather...meh. Can't help but feel like we've seen it before in previous stories (got a real sense of déjà vu with it).

Funnily enough, I think if the story had just been about the lab and the accident with no aliens involved it would have worked a lot better. Like, if Bill and the Doctor just showed up and had to help the struggling scientists save the world. Did enjoy the interaction between the Doctor and Erica, shame it wasn't longer.

Overall I think this was a rather weak episode, and not just because it was a middle part. These "Monks" just aren't doing anything for me.

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Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1265 on: 30 May 2017, 23:19:10 »
I thought it was so dumb I stopped watching halfway through.  Typical Moffat lameness
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garhkal

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1266 on: 31 May 2017, 01:04:59 »
Over on one of my SW sites, someone has a Off topic like thread asking people if they could have any ONE starship, which it would be.
Some are talking about the Tardis, but i've never seen it shown in the show that it can fly in space..  Anyone care to prove me wrong?
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monbvol

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1267 on: 31 May 2017, 01:34:06 »
It has done so many times.

Most notable was when it towed Earth back to where it belonged.

gyedid

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1268 on: 31 May 2017, 02:22:31 »
Overall I think this was a rather weak episode, and not just because it was a middle part. These "Monks" just aren't doing anything for me. [/spoiler]

I don't think they're what they appear to be.

  Case in point:  every time they talk, their mouths open and words come out, but their lips don't move.  Where have we seen that before? Have to go back quite a long ways...

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

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Ruger

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1269 on: 31 May 2017, 08:41:00 »
I don't think they're what they appear to be.

  Case in point:  every time they talk, their mouths open and words come out, but their lips don't move.  Where have we seen that before? Have to go back quite a long ways...

cheers,

Gabe

Cybermen?...well, the season trailer did appear to show Cyber-Mondasians...

Ruger
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gyedid

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1270 on: 31 May 2017, 09:15:20 »
Cybermen?...well, the season trailer did appear to show Cyber-Mondasians...

Ruger

  That, plus the fact that the Monks have a rather corpse-like appearance.

If so, this would be a new M.O. for them.  They've never resorted to that kind of elaborate deception before.  Especially not the 1st-gen Cybermen--remember, they're an attempt to go cyber with clunky 1950's tech.
 


EDIT:  I'm also trying to think about which other monster we've seen so far actually sound like the Monks' voices, and I can only think of
the Silence.

cheers,

Gabe
« Last Edit: 31 May 2017, 09:21:49 by gyedid »
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1271 on: 31 May 2017, 12:23:42 »
  That, plus the fact that the Monks have a rather corpse-like appearance.

If so, this would be a new M.O. for them.  They've never resorted to that kind of elaborate deception before.  Especially not the 1st-gen Cybermen--remember, they're an attempt to go cyber with clunky 1950's tech.
 


EDIT:  I'm also trying to think about which other monster we've seen so far actually sound like the Monks' voices, and I can only think of
the Silence.

cheers,

Gabe

Actually, you know who they remind me of?

The Mummy from "Mummy on the Orient Express."  Which begs the question:  Are they our Mummies?

;) :D

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« Last Edit: 31 May 2017, 12:25:49 by ClarkeMarek »
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garhkal

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1272 on: 31 May 2017, 14:56:19 »
It has done so many times.

Most notable was when it towed Earth back to where it belonged.

???  Towed a frikken planet?
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Jaim Magnus

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1273 on: 31 May 2017, 15:02:19 »
EDIT:  I'm also trying to think about which other monster we've seen so far actually sound like the Monks' voices, and I can only think of
the Silence.

cheers,

Gabe
Actually, you know who they remind me of?

The Mummy from "Mummy on the Orient Express."  Which begs the question:  Are they our Mummies?

;) :D

*waits for the picture of 9 telling me to go to my room*

Makes sense. I believe those villains were all portrayed by the same actor.

???  Towed a frikken planet?

Episode 4x13, after the Daleks had been defeated... again.
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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1274 on: 31 May 2017, 17:19:07 »
???  Towed a frikken planet?

We've also seen it fly after a starship after rescuing River Song after she ejected herself from it...then there was the time that the Doctor let Amy Pond float in space outside the door while he held onto her foot (though granted, that's not exactly "flying")...then there's all the times it's flown through the atmosphere of Earth...

Ruger
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qc mech3

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1275 on: 31 May 2017, 20:17:09 »
Don't forget getting Rose back from a Dalek ship and evading a missile or all 13 versions of it freezing Galifrey in a timelock from orbit.

ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1276 on: 31 May 2017, 23:44:42 »
Makes sense. I believe those villains were all portrayed by the same actor.

Episode 4x13, after the Daleks had been defeated... again.

Oh yes, where Rose gets left on a beach again.  I forgot about that one.

Unfortunately, so did Donna.  :o No, YOU shut up! :D  CAVEAT:  I'm only kidding, honest.  Most people who know me will know that I'm a Donna/Martha/Ace/Leela fan. :)

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gyedid

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1277 on: 01 June 2017, 05:39:50 »
Makes sense. I believe those villains were all portrayed by the same actor.

Jamie Hill portrayed the Foretold (the Mummy) and the Monks.  He doesn't appear to have portrayed one of the Silence.ot

Got me thinking about that episode...was it ever established who was behind GUS, the train's malevolent AI?

Cheers, Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

YingJanshi

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1278 on: 04 June 2017, 23:04:28 »
Just finished watching "The Lie of the Land" and (spoilers ahead obviously. No, really, major spoilers)...

This was very much Bill's episode. She dominated and quite simply, had a brilliant performance. Her confrontation with the Doctor on the prison ship was breath-taking and heart-breaking. I think she would have been quite right to punch him after his revelation. (Incidentally that was the regeneration scene teased in the Series 10 trailer.) In a way that was a death scene, not of a character, but of a character's innocence and belief in another. Personally, I found that much more affecting and painful than the "death" scenes of Rose, Amy, or Clara. It was the loss not just of a life, but something more: the meaning of a life.

That was the high point of the writing of this episode. The rest just didn't quite fit. There were a few really good moments, broken by others that felt flat. It was a very tone deaf episode. There was a forced levity, a "don't worry folks, everyone lives!" current that made all of the drama and danger and sacrifice of the episode seem pointless. The Doctor's "Haha, see I tricked you" at the the conclusion of the aforementioned scene. The way the script glossed over a character's self-sacrifice at the end by having said character inexplicably surviving what just moments before we were told would be certain death. If the writers truly wish to pluck these emotional chords, then they have to be willing to follow through. It would be an immense risk to kill off a central character mid-season,  but without taking that risk, the end result feels cheap and manipulative.


Also, the pacing of the last three episodes has felt rather...brisk. Instead of lingering to enjoy a scene, the brilliance of an idea or the way a character shines, writers are a step behind us, herding, rushing us on to the next scene. If there is some crisis, that briskness can work in the writers favor, giving us the feeling of breathlessly following the characters as they race against the clock. For instance, last episode and the Doomsday clock, there was a definite crisis to advert. This story didn't have that, the Monks had already won. It felt, in all honesty, like the writer was hurrying us along, solely to be done with this adventure and on to the next one.


In the end, this episode will have one (maybe two) really memorable scenes. Which are unfortunately let down by the rest of the script. It was a very tonally inconsistent script. One that everyone involved tried their best to make work. Capaldi was fantastic as usual (even if his levity at certain moments felt off-key). And Pearl Mackie brought her A-game for an All-Star performance.


Miscellaneous observations: 1) Well, we finally get to see Missy. Does anyone really, truly, believes she's trying to turn a new page? 2) The Doctor's wardrobe has been just absolutely fantastic this season. Each episode he's wearing something different, and yet each one is undeniably him. (Seriously, I just love that jacket from this episode!) 3) Nardole has actually been growing on me, in "The Many Husbands of River Song" and "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" and the first couple of this series, he was just annoying. But the last few episodes he's actually becoming an interesting character and not just a walking joke.


Oh and next week...the Ice Warriors return!! Yay!!!!

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ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1279 on: 05 June 2017, 01:41:14 »
I thought the episode was OK.  Not the best, but enjoyable.  But just MHO.


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Jaim Magnus

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1280 on: 05 June 2017, 04:43:47 »
I thought the episode was OK.  Not the best, but enjoyable.  But just MHO.

This has been my feeling about the entire season thus far.
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YingJanshi

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1281 on: 08 June 2017, 22:17:51 »
I tried posting about this earlier, but the browser kept timing out...

Anyway, has anyone else heard about the new Doctor Who Miniatures game out from Warlord Games?

Into the Time Vortex

Kind of confusingly the base set is called "Exterminate!" and features Daleks vs Cybermen (with Cybermats).
Most of the Daleks, Cybermen and other minis do look good. The monsters at least. The people, like the Doctor and Missy and the Companions...not so much.
The offerings so far are rather slim as well.
A 10th Doctor set, a 12th Doctor set, a Missy/Cybermen set, the Silence, Davros, Zygons, Professor Yano & Chantho, Judoon, the Clockwork Droids (think Lucasfilms/Disney knows about that?), the Tetraps oddly enough (from the 7th Doctor's first story), and the last set is one that I think is actually rather cool: a cyberman set that contains 1 figure for every version of the cybermen we've ever seen on screen.

I don't know how I feel about them, on the one hand it's fantastic to get an officially licensed miniatures game. On the other hand they are incredibly expensive (especially since Warlords license doesn't allow them to distribute the game in the US); and it's 38mm scale, so hard to fit in with any other minis.



(EDIT: I forgot to mention that you can get a free PDF of their rules on the site.)
« Last Edit: 08 June 2017, 22:24:05 by YingJanshi »

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YingJanshi

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1282 on: 11 June 2017, 22:21:52 »
"The Empress of Mars"...

Holy cow that was a brilliant episode! Hands down best of the season. Probably one of the best of a while. Ice Warriors yay! (I always liked them. They and the Silurians are two of the most interesting monsters on DW.) The writing was topnotch (as to be expected from Mark Gatiss.) This one really felt like a "Classic Who" episode. The whole Victorians in space thing was well done. This one really should have been the two parter of the season instead of the lackluster monk set. Would have given the writers a bit more time to explore the Ice Warriors. Oh well, it can't be helped. Overall I'm giving this one a 5 out of 5.

(Oh and we do get a really cool cameo of someone we haven't seen since the Pertwee years.)


Well, that's 9 episodes down, only 3 left in the season: "The Eaters of Light", "World Enough and Time", & "The Doctor Falls".

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gyedid

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1283 on: 22 June 2017, 03:03:37 »
Sorry, but the past couple of episodes really didn't do it for me.  I found the Ice Warriors one in particular a letdown, they just didn't come across as very interesting, though the whole Victorian redcoats in space thing was amusing; the actors who played Godsacre and Catchlove in particular came across very well.  The latter reminds me of a character from _The Jewel in the Crown_ (anyone ever seen this series about the twilight of British India?)--the opportunistic sycophant who'll do anything to both advance his own position and save his own sorry hide.  I didn't understand:  if Godsacre had already been tried and executed (albeit unsuccessfully) for desertion, how was he able to rise to command of another detachment?  And I had also been hoping for tie-in to "The Waters of Mars", that the mystery Martian pathogen would be revealed as an Ice Warrior bioweapon that got out of control (a la Engineers' black goo), or worse, deliberately left behind to prevent future visitors from ransacking the remains of their civilization.

"The Eaters of Light" really felt like it could have used way more exposition, like it needed to be a one-and-half parter.  I feel a script by Rona Munro--the only classic series writer who has also penned a script from the revived series--deserved more, but I suppose that reflects how little is really known about the Picts.  I will say I was a bit taken aback by how ready the Doctor seemed to be to sacrifice himself in order to seal off the portal. 
And did anyone else think the monsters from this episode looked like miniature versions of Pacific Rim kaiju?

(And prior to that, I was pretty disappointed too that the Monks were revealed to not be Cybermen.  But it makes sense, seeing as they seemingly have concerns about things that are of no concern to the Cybermen.  Since when have the Cybermen ever cared about getting permission to invade?)

Hard to believe this season has gone by so fast.  Let's get to Bill. 

She has been much stronger than expected for a first-time companion, especially one who started as a university cafeteria employee.  I don't think she's what she appears to be, and there have been hints dropped.
--her encyclopedic knowledge of sci-fi tropes, especially knowing how the Doctor could erase memories
--the fact she referred to the Doctor as her grandfather in "Knock Knock"
--the simulation of her trying to convince her/itself of its own existence in "Extremis"--sure, in that episode, nobody was real, but here I think it has a deeper meaning
--in "Eaters", somehow suddenly figuring out that the TARDIS confers universal translation ability without needing it explained by the Doctor or Nardole.

In short, I think Bill is not who or what she appears to be.  There are 2 episodes left, and I would keep a close eye on the Doctor's pockets.  I have a feeling a certain fob watch is going to be making a re-appearance.  And if it's not that, then...think "Logopolis".

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

YingJanshi

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1284 on: 22 June 2017, 09:57:20 »
As far as Bill figuring out the TARDIS language abilities...she honestly should have figured that out sooner...

But I want to know: how did the Ice Queen know English as soon as she woke up? (The TARDIS was off Mars by the time...)

So...John Simms is back as the Master, for all the teasers we've got so far, who else thinks he is just going to be in one quick little flashback scene?

As for Bill being Susan...nope, sorry, not seeing it. First, she has a mother on Earth (who the Doctor nipped back in time to photograph for Bill); second, she's seen the photo of Susan on the Doctor's desk, no recognition; and finally, the Dalek invasion of Earth doesn't happen until the mid-twenty-second century. I think Bill is important, but only in the same way all of the Doctor's companions are important.

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1285 on: 22 June 2017, 18:52:56 »

So...John Simms is back as the Master, for all the teasers we've got so far, who else thinks he is just going to be in one quick little flashback scene?

As for Bill being Susan...nope, sorry, not seeing it. First, she has a mother on Earth (who the Doctor nipped back in time to photograph for Bill); second, she's seen the photo of Susan on the Doctor's desk, no recognition; and finally, the Dalek invasion of Earth doesn't happen until the mid-twenty-second century. I think Bill is important, but only in the same way all of the Doctor's companions are important.


On the Master...one of the previews shows him dancing with Missy, so no, I don't think he'll just be in flashbacks...unless that's a mental illusion or something similar...

As to the other, the indications do seem to point to the unlikeliness of Bill being Susan, but the fob watch has accounted for changed memories, including families and such, in both the Doctor and the Master...and being in control of a time machine would allow Susan to be transported back earlier than the 22nd century after being there for a while...


Ruger
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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1286 on: 24 June 2017, 21:15:18 »
Well...their genesis is different from what has been speculated before...part of me prefers the theories in David Banks's book...but this works too...

Ruger
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Jaim Magnus

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1287 on: 25 June 2017, 07:48:02 »
Finally, an episode that worked well.

I like the origin for the Mondasian Cybermen. It's weird, but also makes sense in context.

[suspicious]RIP Bill Potts.[/suspicious]

I wish they hadn't spoiled that John Simms was returning, [suspicious]because I was looking for him very specifically and spotted him right away, which ruined the 'surprise' later in the episode. "Do you still like disguises?" I really enjoyed the return of this aspect of the Master.[/suspicious]
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ClarkeMarek

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1288 on: 25 June 2017, 13:56:18 »
It actually took me a while to spot him, and I was expecting him.  Then again, I've been told that I'm exceedingly dense to begin with. ;D

My own observations.

1)  I'm wondering if this is what inspires Missy to do the Necro Cybermen in her first appearance.

2)  I understand why Missy doesn't remember being on the ship(unless there's a Rule 1a that probably applies), but the Master recognizing his future incarnation ahead of time?  Either he's crossed paths with herself at some point, or something else is going on.  (BTW, my apologies if I used the pronouns wrong.  No offense intended, let me know if I need to clean that up.)

EDIT:  Right, forgot, he was watching her on the television...a la Trial of a Timelord.  I'm an idiot.  :P

2a)  Which makes me wonder if her crying at the end of the last episode really is remorse and feeling sad for being evil, or if she regrets knowing what's in store for the Doctor.

3)  I will agree, it was sad to see what happened to Bill.  However, am I the only one that, upon seeing Bill cry, got reminded of Yvonne Hartmann?

« Last Edit: 25 June 2017, 21:37:37 by ClarkeMarek »
"Son, if dynamite was dangerous, do you think they'd sell it to an idiot like me?"~Al Bundy
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gyedid

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Re: Unified Doctor Who thread
« Reply #1289 on: 26 June 2017, 02:15:09 »
Well, I guess this all means that this episode supersedes the excellent Big Finish audio "Spare Parts" as the official origin for the Cybermen.
(Which was a 5th Doctor + Nyssa story, for those who haven't heard it.)

Poor, poor Bill...I did not see that coming***.  And if Bill really is Susan like I speculated, that makes it doubly devastating for the Doctor.

***which means the hint at her ultimate fate wasn't any of the ones I mentioned before, but it was "Oxygen" !

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

 

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