The Rasalhague Dominion: Friend of a Friend (but not your Friend)

[Xeno426]

But its got a +2 penalty on the hit, 1 inherent from the claw and 1 from the heat. Do punches have a hit bonus like kicks do? I dont remember.

Sadly, no, punches are only +0 THM.

[wantec]

Punches have no to-hit bonus like kicks do, but they also don't have a PSR on a failed attack like kicks do. Even still, at +2 to-hit, for possibly two chances on the punch table, two 1/6 chances at decapitating the enemy 'Mech will get folks attention.

[Jellico]

Id rather invest this energy into imps and thugs! Maybe omni them booth? Cause whats better than taking two great designs and making them horrible.

I would rather invest in a Viper and Firemoth replacement.

[Xeno426]

I would rather invest in a Viper and Firemoth replacement.

That would be nice as well. Perhaps a Kodiak with claws would best be found in an XTRO, while a Viper II and Super Fire Moth (Fire Moth II doesn't count...) would go in a regular version.

Would be nice to see an Executioner II with podded JJ and better armor allocation to the side torsos. Or maybe a variant with modular armor on the two side torsos? Would be quite useful.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Been thinking a lighter unit might be better for the Claws. A TSM 45 tonner can still throw headcap punches. I'll have to tinker around with a Beowulf when I get home, it may be able to have AES too.

[wantec]

That would be nice as well. Perhaps a Kodiak with claws would best be found in an XTRO, while a Viper II and Super Fire Moth (Fire Moth II doesn't count...) would go in a regular version.

Would be nice to see an Executioner II with podded JJ and better armor allocation to the side torsos. Or maybe a variant with modular armor on the two side torsos? Would be quite useful.

You mean like the Wulfen or Phantom? They don't hit 20 speed, but go pretty close.

The Viper hits 8/12/8 and has XL Engine, Ferro, and Endo, so there's no quick fixes there. What would a Viper II have? Better weapons configs? I'm just asking out of curiosity, not as a writer. Also, almost anything an Executioner II with podded JJ could do a Blood Asp with a supercharger should be able to do.

[(SMD)MadCow]

The Viper hits 8/12/8 and has XL Engine, Ferro, and Endo, so there's no quick fixes there. What would a Viper II have? Better weapons configs?

XXL engine and a partial wing?

[Xeno426]

Been thinking a lighter unit might be better for the Claws. A TSM 45 tonner can still throw headcap punches. I'll have to tinker around with a Beowulf when I get home, it may be able to have AES too.

A lighter unit? Brother, I don't think you appreciate the Ghost Bears. They're the Clan flush with resources; if a heavier mech can do the same job slightly less efficiently while costing more money, the Ghost Bears will be there. Their scout mech is 40 tons, after all; the Fire Moth is really just a BA transport.

You mean like the Wulfen or Phantom? They don't hit 20 speed, but go pretty close.

The Phantom is just an inferior Viper. The Wulfen has the problem of being a Wolf mech, and they're kinda far away as of 3145. Still, the Wulfen is cool and something of that similar "cool factor" would be nice for a new light Dominion mech. Maybe something like a 30-ton 9/14 with supercharger or MASC? It's a shame hardened armor can't be used on omnimechs; that would give the Dominion a slightly unique design. A light mech with much more armor than you would expect (or would be terribly optimal)? Sounds like the Ghost Bears.

The Viper hits 8/12/8 and has XL Engine, Ferro, and Endo, so there's no quick fixes there. What would a Viper II have? Better weapons configs? I'm just asking out of curiosity, not as a writer. Also, almost anything an Executioner II with podded JJ could do a Blood Asp with a supercharger should be able to do.

Good point on the Viper II; maybe using some of the new items available that can be put on omnis but not pod-mounted, like ferro-lamellor. Given the commonality of the PPC in DCMS hands, reflective armor might even be a decent choice. Maybe Harjel II/III on the torso locations.
Problem with the Blood Asp is that it isn't available to the IS Clans. Also, the Blood Asp doesn't have a MASC: I feel an Executioner II should still have 4/6 movement and MASC, because fast assault is so very much Ghost Bears.

XXL engine and a partial wing?

Partial wing is kind of a Jade Falcons thing, with some examples in Raven hands. Given their relations, I don't know if the Dominion would be able to get a good supply of them for production.
XXL engines have the issue of being a lot more heat intensive, which may not be the best thing for a mech already sporting 8 JJs. Maybe the unit could make use of some Radical HS purchased from the FS.

[wantec]

Oh I meant the Phantom as a possible substitute for a Fire Moth replacement not for the Viper. A fast, ground bound Elemental transport and harasser. The Horses seem to have Blood Asps according to the MUL, so it wouldn't be that difficult in theory to get them or the design specs. While the Blood Asp doesn't have MASC, a supercharger does pretty much the same thing.

[Xeno426]

Oh I meant the Phantom as a possible substitute for a Fire Moth replacement not for the Viper. A fast, ground bound Elemental transport and harasser. The Horses seem to have Blood Asps according to the MUL, so it wouldn't be that difficult in theory to get them or the design specs. While the Blood Asp doesn't have MASC, a supercharger does pretty much the same thing.

Huh, I wouldn't have thought the Hell's Horses would have that many Blood Asps. It's not on their RAT, so they may not actually have a factory of them.

Lacking a MASC prevents it from getting MASC + Supercharger for 107km/h running. Also, 95 tons happens to be rather optimal for 4/6 movement with an XL engine on assaults.

You know, we haven't see a Clan superheavy mech yet. Surely the Dominion would be the most likely Clan to build such a thing; they've got the resources to do it (they're building a Leviathan III, after all) and the history of making excessively large mechs (or at least favoring them). Hell, there's even a good name for it: Nanurluk, an Inuit monster bear the size of an iceburg.

[Jellico]

The sweet spot for a 10/15 XL Mech is 30 tons. Unfortunately the Wulfen is sitting in the middle of that. Unfortunately it suffers from poor configs.

The Phantom is over engined. IMHO the Viper offers a better movement profile.

90 tons is great for a std engined 4/6 Mech. 95 is slightly better for XL. We are dealing in half tons here. The extra weight means more cost but more durability.

I will put up my current thinking later in the day.

[Xeno426]

The sweet spot for a 10/15 XL Mech is 30 tons. Unfortunately the Wulfen is sitting in the middle of that. Unfortunately it suffers from poor configs.

The Phantom is over engined. IMHO the Viper offers a better movement profile.

I haven't had much of a chance to work with the Wulfen. Maybe we could get a "Fire Moth II" that is 30 tons and 9/14; there's not many mechs of that weight category with that speed profile.

Which is why I'm thinking a Viper II would need to make use of some modern technology that can't be pod-mounted to set itself apart from the previous version.

90 tons is great for a std engined 4/6 Mech. 95 is slightly better for XL. We are dealing in half tons here. The extra weight means more cost but more durability.

I think that part is kind of relevant to how the Dominion runs things. Granted,  I don't want to see them Flanderized, but spending more on something slightly less efficient is kind of their hallmark. I mean, look at the bloody Kuma; if that thing were 5 tons lighter, it would have 7 tons more space to work with. And while the Gargoyle isn't a Bear design, they quite like it (if the RATs are any indication).

[ANS Kamas P81]

90 tons is great for a std engined 4/6 Mech. 95 is slightly better for XL. We are dealing in half tons here. The extra weight means more cost but more durability.

Shame there's no Banshee IIC; maybe something built off the -5S.  Not like the Razzies don't have a bunch of BNC frames to work on after all.  I've been pootling with a 3150-era idea, I should go post it.

[(SMD)MadCow]

A lighter unit? Brother, I don't think you appreciate the Ghost Bears. 

Cute.

So anyway, updated the proof of concept thread with the Beowulf IIC I threw together (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57457.msg1322799#msg1322799).
Can't use AES with TSM, oh well. Can still headcap with punches, which is what I was testing for. Faster than the Koidak and jumpy to boot. With a big scary thing to distract, a medium like this could dart around the battlefield snatching faces like Voldemort in a graveyard.

[Jellico]

And here is my effort

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57486.0

[Foxx Ital]

Too much focus on battlemechs. Fix the wraith to be an assault.ba like it was supposed to be  ;)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Too much focus on battlemechs. Fix the wraith to be an assault.ba like it was supposed to be  ;)

Giant robots are better than little bitty robots!

[Foxx Ital]

Giant robots are better than little bitty robots!

What if the little bitty robots could combine into one giant robot?

[Jellico]

Too much focus on battlemechs. Fix the wraith to be an assault.ba like it was supposed to be  ;)

the Golem is enough of a transport headache and you want to add another?

The quickest way to fix the Wraith is to get rid of the double arm theme.

[jklantern]

What if the little bitty robots could combine into one giant robot?

"Star Colonel, we've tested mounting the Executioner on those salvaged Balius that we acquired from the Horses."

"And?"

"It...went about as well as could be expected."

[David CGB]

And here is my effort

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57486.0

small question, what benefit does Interface give besides not needing a gyro

[wantec]

small question, what benefit does Interface give besides not needing a gyro

Per pg. 116 of Interstellar Ops:
- A -1 to all Gunnery & Piloting skill target numbers
- If the 'Mech has a gyro all gyro hits are ignored and gyro destruction is ignored
- The MW ignores pilot hits due to ammo explosions and due to head hits. The MW still suffers damage from pilot hits while falling, overheating while life support is damaged, or dying if the head location is destroyed.
- The MW is in a PAL suit, so if the MW ejects it now has some armor/abilities based on the suit.

Plus a few other benefits/rules that are less likely to be needed.

[David CGB]

Per pg. 116 of Interstellar Ops:
- A -1 to all Gunnery & Piloting skill target numbers
- If the 'Mech has a gyro all gyro hits are ignored and gyro destruction is ignored
- The MW ignores pilot hits due to ammo explosions and due to head hits. The MW still suffers damage from pilot hits while falling, overheating while life support is damaged, or dying if the head location is destroyed.
- The MW is in a PAL suit, so if the MW ejects it now has some armor/abilities based on the suit.

Plus a few other benefits/rules that are less likely to be needed.

thanks

[ANS Kamas P81]

Jellico, in all honesty, how likely is any of that advanced tech going to end up in the RasDom's hands anyway?  I don't know the relations with the other clans and likelihoods of getting anything, so can you elaborate a bit more?

[Xeno426]

Jellico, in all honesty, how likely is any of that advanced tech going to end up in the RasDom's hands anyway?  I don't know the relations with the other clans and likelihoods of getting anything, so can you elaborate a bit more?

Well, the Parash was made on New Oslo, and that is now in Dominion hands. The Parash 3 used an Interface cockpit, though I don't have any books on hand to see if the Parash 3 was made on New Oslo before the Dominion took over.

As for ferro-lamellor, they already have the Mad Dog IV with it, and the Raven Alliance also has the stuff.

The Chameleon is what they'd probably have the hardest time acquiring.

[(SMD)MadCow]

The CLPS is archived tech for the clans, Exterminators and Spectors went on the Exodus. They would just have to dust pffthe 5 inch floppy drives and hope the reader still works.

[ANS Kamas P81]

CLPS makes sense; you don't see the ghost bear until it's on you because it blends against the snow.  I'm fine with evil dishonorable things like that since by 3150 noone deserves it - and I'm more Rasalhague leaning than Bear leaning.

[Frogfoot]

When you boil it down, CLPS is just appropriate camo taken to an extreme. If you've got already got camo-painted mechs with Angel ECM then CLPS isn't that much of a leap. It certainly can't be more unClanlike than C3i.

[Jellico]

CLPS is SL tech as noted. The main problem is ideological. Note the Bears have got into Stealth BA in the 3080s. The Wolves broke the taboo with the Stealth armored Wulfen which is used by the Bears. Personally I consider CLPS a fascinating compromise stealth tech. Besides. Lights need all the help that they cam get in 3150.

Interface Cockpits are more interesting. I think it was XTRO Republic 3 which discussed it. The Wolves, Horses and maybe Ravens were suggested to have it with any of the others being able to aquire it by the usual means if needed.
Again the main limit is ideological.

It was noted that the Bears would be the least likely to use it. They have a retirement program now and insanity inducing EI is a bad fit for that. On top of that is the overplayed Bear dislike of new tech.

My personal position is the -2 to-hit alone means it will become a tactical necessity to rearm with Interface Cockpits as other Clans begin to deploy it in numbers.

The OmniMech example is illustrative. Despite not building OmniMechs the Bears knew enough about the tech to be concerned about issues with the gyros.
So I  feel it reasonable to look at design and testing programs with production being held off untill it is politically acceptable amd tactically necessary .

[ANS Kamas P81]

Ideology is one thing, but after the Jihad and in the current days, plus the fact they're already using Stealth tech, says to me CLPS should be acceptable.  Granted EI implants and whatnot would be required, and you mentioned the retirement program being against that...

...I suppose, once the technology proliferated, it becomes less an issue of ideology and more an issue of simply keeping current - it's no longer new at that point.  I suppose once the Skinwalker shows up enmasse, or there's more designs beside that and the Parash 3 showing up, it'll get pushed into the touman just like every other development. 

That said, now I want a Kodiak III with a CLPS.  Time to design.