Author Topic: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?  (Read 29496 times)

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #660 on: 15 May 2017, 15:19:19 »
So, I'll be digging out my Armada pieces again, soon, and probably going over the rules a second time. But, I'm curious if anyone can answer me right off the top what the standard point value for a basic game of Armada is, and what would you recommend beyond fighter expansions to fill in what the core box doesn't cover to reach that minimum?

Thanks.
Typical 'legal' match is 400 pts. Smaller ships are cheaper, while large ships like Imperial Star Destroyer and Home One can be expensive. Price and Point Cost that is.

In deciding what to get to build up your forces, you have to find what it is you want in your collection like a theme. For me, it's an Imperial task force (as detailed in novel Thrawn) operating in the Outer Rim. This gives me the direction for the imperial game pieces to collect.
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iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #661 on: 15 May 2017, 15:53:04 »
So, I'll be digging out my Armada pieces again, soon, and probably going over the rules a second time. But, I'm curious if anyone can answer me right off the top what the standard point value for a basic game of Armada is, and what would you recommend beyond fighter expansions to fill in what the core box doesn't cover to reach that minimum?

Thanks.
Heh, went through the same thing recently. Standard games these days are 400 points, but if you're not running around with ISDs and Mon Cal cruisers, the old standard of 300 points is easier to understand and get a feel for the game in.

What you probably want are:

1) The first fighter packs - both Rebel and Imperial - and the Rogues & Villains, which has stuff for both sides.

2) Imperials want a Light Cruiser (long-range ship with a couple of important defensive cards and a great commander), a Gladiator SD (Demolisher is probably the best title in the GAME, and the Glad is a strong ship), a Imperial Carrier flotilla (to push your fighters faster) as a base. The Imperial Star Destroyer is good, and the Raider is fun, but those three ships (Gozandi, Gladiator, Arquitens) are a solid base with the VSD that comes in the box.

3) Rebels want another Nebulon-B Frigate (for the titles therein, and they work well in pairs), a Phoenix Home (the Pelta has some great synergies), and a Rebel Transports pack (because flotillas are pretty good). After that, you might want the MC30 Frigate for Rieekan or a CR90 to create a little wolfpack, but those three expansions are a solid base with the core.

4) Look for some of the promo cards on eBay, especially Turbolaser Reroute Circuits. Leading Shots is also useful on a fair few ships, but TRCs turn Corellian Corvettes into pocket murder machines.


I'd say bare minimum for good 300 point games would be the first fighter packs with Rogues & Villains, the Imperial Light Cruiser, the Carriers, a second Nebulon-B, and Rebel Transports.

The weird thing is... I bought all that, and I've yet to play more than a handful of games. I just like them, they're great toys, but I probably should have spent money on Malifaux instead.

iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #662 on: 15 May 2017, 16:01:05 »
Oh, and check out the Cannot Get Your Ship Out blog for a great set of articles about how Armada functions. It's also an entertaining read. There's the Steel Squadron blog too, but CGYSO has a more modern take on the ships, whereas SS's reviews are from the date the ship released, so stuff like Minister Tua on a Victory-II to give it a Defensive Refit is... not included.

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #663 on: 15 May 2017, 20:54:18 »
Heh, went through the same thing recently. Standard games these days are 400 points, but if you're not running around with ISDs and Mon Cal cruisers, the old standard of 300 points is easier to understand and get a feel for the game in.

What you probably want are:

1) The first fighter packs - both Rebel and Imperial - and the Rogues & Villains, which has stuff for both sides.

Actually you really really need to get the second fighter pack. For Empire there is the lambda shuttle that allows you ships to command squadrons across the board as well the ability to move objective markers about.

Second I highly recommend getting a copy of the Corellian Campaign.  More unique squadrons for both Empire and Rebels as well as more objective cards.
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Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #664 on: 15 May 2017, 23:31:17 »
Quick question: What's the default point value for an Epic-scale game?
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Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #666 on: 15 May 2017, 23:55:48 »
Cool. Finally picked up a Gozanti recently, and have been itching to try it out.
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iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #667 on: 16 May 2017, 01:30:09 »
Cool. Finally picked up a Gozanti recently, and have been itching to try it out.
yeah, I got the Raider for Palpatine (and because it was a cool looking ship, and offered the TIE Advanced fix that is DOA a year later), but I think the Gozanti is better for Epic.

Epic ships have many, many quirks that I've discovered, mostly by playing wrong and finding out after the fact:

1) They move LAST, after all other ships have moved. If they overlap a smaller ship by this move, it's destroyed and takes a face-up damage card to the section that overlapped. If a smaller ship overlaps them during its own move, the SMALL ship rolls an attack die and suffers any result.

2) When they recover shields, they spend ALL their energy and can place restored shield tokens on both sections if they've lost tokens, not just one. The Shield Technician changes this, which makes it a super-valuable card in Epic play.

3) The Action Phase goes - Movement, Generate Energy, Spend Energy, Take Action.

4) The smaller Epic ships only get one action, the larger ones get two - one per section - and each section can ONLY take the actions listed on its card. Reinforces can only be placed on one section, though, even the smaller Epic ships.

5) Ion tokens remain until the next turn's Generate Energy phase, after which each Ion token removes one energy.

6) There are 12 obstacles on the 6'x3' board, but they are placed in pairs - each member of a pair must be at R1 of its counterpart, but a pair can't be placed within R2 of another obstacle pair or a table edge.

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #668 on: 16 May 2017, 09:27:52 »
I think we've been making a big mistake when playing with Epic ships. Upon re-reading the rules I noticed that there's no time the energy limit on cards is not in force. So no more getting 4 energy to recharge your guns and still having a full reactor... :(

Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #669 on: 16 May 2017, 10:49:03 »
Given my love of ordnance, I'm mostly looking at Ordnance Technicians, the Coordinate action, and oodles of possibilities... >:D
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #670 on: 16 May 2017, 11:56:36 »
I think we've been making a big mistake when playing with Epic ships. Upon re-reading the rules I noticed that there's no time the energy limit on cards is not in force. So no more getting 4 energy to recharge your guns and still having a full reactor... :(
Ah, yes, that too - but I think my friends and I have always played that rule right, so it wasn't something I noted in that list.

Epic ships are... complicated. Like, really complicated. I like Epic X-Wing, it actually FEELS like a wargame with tactics and a real battlefield, but man do the big ships make it hard.

Also, the big ships aren't... very good, in a strictly competitive sense. They're more like big point banks, rather than effective combat ships - a 150-point Raider is going to do less damage and be more easily dodged than an equivalent weight of small fighters. The only real advantage big ships have is regeneration.

But I'll still use my Raider in every game, because dammit, I paid for it and it looks awesome.


I think my favorite Epic ship build is on the Gozanti. Suppressor + Grand Moff Tarkin + Comms Booster + Broadcast Array is horrifically disruptive, giving and/or removing multiple actions per turn (GMT either takes or gives a Focus token depending on what you need, Suppressor takes away their target locks for anti-ordnance purposes, Comm Booster swaps one of your energy for stress removal AND a focus token, and Jam is WAY better than I gave it credit for), while still leaving space for Shield Technician + Automated Protocols and the freaking turret, at half the price or less of a Raider. Automated Protocols is important because it means you can Jam/Coordinate AND Recover/Reinforce in a single turn, and Shield Technician means you don't blow all your Energy in Recover actions.

Oh, and there's still a Team slot open, so you CAN add the Ordnance Experts if you want to... but that 'one per round' restriction kills it for me. I think I'd prefer a Sensor Team (for more anti-TL shenanigans) or Engineering Team (more energy = longer lifespan through Recover actions, making it harder to kill!)

But my build does mean no ride-hitchers, which does kinda suck...

Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #671 on: 16 May 2017, 15:08:43 »
But I'll still use my Raider in every game, because dammit, I paid for it and it looks awesome.

Best reason to use anything in that game. O0
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

Daemion

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #672 on: 17 May 2017, 14:02:38 »
I just got one, too, simply being curious.

I notice that in the campaign, the Rebels cannot deploy Biggs, and for rather obvious gameplay reasons. Does the Empire have a Biggs Darklighter equivalent?
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Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #673 on: 17 May 2017, 14:15:14 »
Not really. Protecting each other isn't really the Imperial Schtick.

Closest I can think of is Captain Kagi, a Lambda pilot. He forces target locks to be placed on him instead of anyone else, whenever normally possible.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

Clangador

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #674 on: 18 May 2017, 11:41:52 »
Best reason to use anything in that game. O0

I've had mixed results with my Raider.
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gooseman

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #675 on: 18 May 2017, 22:43:00 »
Given my love of ordnance, I'm mostly looking at Ordnance Technicians, the Coordinate action, and oodles of possibilities... >:D

Wait until you roll that whale over a couple fighters that got too close.

Did that a month ago, smashed a pair of B-wings that thought they could unload point blank on my flank.
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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #676 on: 19 May 2017, 12:27:33 »
Oh, I've done that already, back when I took a buddy's Goz out for a test drive. Every bit as fun as it sounds, and more. >:D

Oddly enough, I also proved to be more adept at avoiding obstacles in a huge ship than I am with smaller stuff. Go figure.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

Daemion

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #677 on: 19 May 2017, 13:59:31 »
It's that whole spatial awareness thing. You're more conscious of having a bigger belt-line and higher mass. ;)
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #678 on: 20 May 2017, 08:35:41 »
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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #679 on: 20 May 2017, 19:42:45 »
I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #680 on: 20 May 2017, 19:56:15 »
I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.

The Rebels stole it from the Imps.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #681 on: 20 May 2017, 20:03:31 »
I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
in the Eu it was a cargo ship refit as a carrier for the rebels.

in new Canon, it is the Imperial Quasar Fire Class Cruiser-Carrier, a dedicated carrier platform used by the empire when they don't want to spare a full star destroyer.
in Rebels the Phoenix Squadron cell manages to capture one that had been assigned to the occupation of Ryloth. it had been the base of operations for TIE bombers used to attack the Ryloth resistance and perform terror attacks on the populace. Phoenix Squadron had needed it because they'd lost their former base of operations (the Pelta class Phoenix Home) a few months earlier and their fighter compliment was suffering rapid attrition. (they'd been docking their fighters to the outside of CR90 corvettes as a stopgap, but they couldn't easily maintain the fighters and the pilots were getting worn out and sloppy because they were constantly on the run)

since in the new Canon the design is Imperial, and the Rebellion only stole the one (so far), FFG made it an imperial ship in Armada. since the Empire is the one that builds and operates them.

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #682 on: 20 May 2017, 20:06:47 »
I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
The rebels in Rebels stole one and [spoiler]it didn't make it out of last season[/spoiler].  Regardless a few were disappointed when the third title wasn't an Alliance ship.

One curious mechanic in Armada that is sucking up way too much discussion bandwidth over there is the "out activating" one's opponent ploy in tournament play.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Battletech have a solution for this?  It has been so long but I seem to remember a mechanic (via MegaMek) that stopped one side from leveraging this.  Am I mistaken in that?  Regardless, it seems a simple fix for Armada to have the player with greater numbers activate a point value proportionate to the player with fewer ships single activation (e.g., my 1 x ISD vs. my opponent's 2 x Nebulon-Bs or 4 x flotillas), discounting the point value of squadrons of course.  Thoughts? 

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #683 on: 20 May 2017, 20:22:14 »
In order to "fix" this problem, FFG would first have to believe it's a problem.
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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #684 on: 20 May 2017, 20:35:10 »
In order to "fix" this problem, FFG would first have to believe it's a problem.
Ah, excellent point.

iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #685 on: 20 May 2017, 23:31:32 »
Battletech's solution is elegant, but the main problem is that there are so few activations in Armada implementing it would be kind of weird - particularly because in tournaments, the first player ALWAYS moves first, so there's no losing/gaining initiative mechanics.

They choose to balance this out with the objectives mechanic, where the first player may go first, but the second player shapes the battlefield in a potentially advantageous way.

I am Belch II

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #686 on: 21 May 2017, 15:07:46 »
I just need to remember that Expanded Universe isn't "canon" anymore.
I just remember it was the Flurry from Truce at Bakura. A good book to me. 
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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #687 on: 21 May 2017, 16:51:40 »
the new Canon has been mining the old Eu for ships and characters, though usually changing details to fit the new setting and events. makign the Quasar Fire an imperial light carrier instead of a converted freighter. (which to be honest.. it makes a lot more sense as a dedicated carrier) you notice they also changed the weaponry around, getting rid of the fixed forward turbolasers (on a hard to maneuver ship?) in favor of high powered anti-fight/anti-ship turrets?

to be honest though, i'm hoping that in the next season of Rebels, we'll see the imperials using a few more of the clone war era ships like the Venator, and the Rebels using some of the old seperatist ships. i doubt the Imperials would get rid of anything that was still useful (Venators might not be cutting edge anymore, but shifted to different roles they would still be fairly useful.), while the Rebels certainly would not turn up their noses at any ship they could get a hold of, regardless of who it served before.
« Last Edit: 21 May 2017, 17:00:41 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #688 on: 10 June 2017, 19:18:00 »
Tried Armada yesterday:

One of our new gaming group members is an Armada player, he put together a scenario and let us try it. I won't bore you with a critique of the scenario, but I did find the play interesting.

What sort of novice insights would you give a one time player?
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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #689 on: 10 June 2017, 19:49:34 »
Tried Armada yesterday:

One of our new gaming group members is an Armada player, he put together a scenario and let us try it. I won't bore you with a critique of the scenario, but I did find the play interesting.

What sort of novice insights would you give a one time player?
Have fun.  It is an investment.  Have fun.

The preview is up for Hammerhead Corvettes.  Hopefully there is more that one copy of each of the Task Force options. Buying two box sets of each, meaning four corvettes will be a bit much for me.

Also, the community writ large is in agony of whatever "meta" "won" "worlds".