How would a Draconis Combine Militia attack a grounded raider Overlord

[Demon55]

This is in the mid 3060s. 

So I have a grounded Overlord class dropship defended by a lance of medium to heavy battlemechs, three heavy tanks, one medium tank and three light tank.  The reinforcements are about five hours away and consist of eight battlemechs mostly heavies and mediums, one heavy ASF and one medium ASF, three light hover tanks, three Maxims and an infantry company. 

The militia militia attack force will consist of a medium to assault tank company backed up by a battalion of infantry with APCs.  The terrain is mostly hilly with the dropship being on a landing pad with some buildings near it.

How would the militia conduct the assault? 

[Daryk]

Does the assault tank company have LRMs?  Infiltrating squads of infantry and spotting for indirect would be one strategy...

[JenniferinaMAD]

How are you interpreting the rules as far as weapons on a grounded dropship go? By RAW, I believe, a succession war Overlord is limited to 20 hexes of range, and I think the upgrade, too (that's the long range aerospace range band, which MegaMek tells me applies).
So use LRMs, ERPPCs, Gauss Rifles and AC2 types to stay out of its range. At best, it'll be able to fire back with AC2 types and light gausses, if it has those.

If you've got to venture into its range, stay on one side. Don't allow it to bring both side's broadside weapon bays to bear. And throw as much firepower into it in each turn as you can, don't let it munch on your units one at a time.

And don't get too close, in case it tries for a lift off. The exhaust will fry you badly.

[Caedis Animus]

Exactly what type of Overlord-class Dropship are we talking here? Original? Upgrade? A-3? A3A?

If it's the latter two, throwing in the towel on a ground assault may be your best bet. That's some naval-grade firepower right there.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

"How would a Draconis Combine Militia attack a grounded raider Overlord?"

Same way any militia would:  after scouts/recon forces pinpoint its location, you bring artillery into range and either smash it, or force it to take off and cause the raiders to lose their established base.  Once it lands again, repeat.

[Demon55]

"How would a Draconis Combine Militia attack a grounded raider Overlord?"

Same way any militia would:  after scouts/recon forces pinpoint its location, you bring artillery into range and either smash it, or force it to take off and cause the raiders to lose their established base.  Once it lands again, repeat.

Also note the raiders destroyed the miltia's ASF assets while they were on the ground.  The planet being raided is mostly an agricultural planet with some military supporting industry that has been attacked and destroyed by the raiders. 

So a good way to play it out would be:  The militia spots the Overlord and starts shelling it.  The Overlord loads up its defenders, lifts off and heads to an alternate location.  The raider ASFs try to find the artillery and destroy them while the relief forces secure another LZ.  Assuming the Overlord lifts off safely and lands it would likely load up the rest of the attack force and start burning for the jump ship. 

[JenniferinaMAD]

So a good way to play it out would be:  The militia spots the Overlord and starts shelling it. [...]

That depends on whether you want the tactically sound move for a campaign or a fun scenario to play.

Only artillery vs only non-artillery doesn't really sound like a fun way to play it to me, but if you have that option (actually a significantly sized 'if' in battletech), then doing anything else is actually stupid in a campaign.

[Demon55]

That depends on whether you want the tactically sound move for a campaign or a fun scenario to play.

Only artillery vs only non-artillery doesn't really sound like a fun way to play it to me, but if you have that option (actually a significantly sized 'if' in battletech), then doing anything else is actually stupid in a campaign.

Since I know that I am legally insane many times over.  I aim for tactically sound options for both sides.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

You can still use a scenario with an artillery attack. The militia should not send out artillery without any air defense, and raiders in your set up do not have a strong ASF attachment to begin with. Reasonable militia should have a few AA defense units.

If the raiders choose to load up their defenders and relocate, the would still have to take damage while loading at least their combat assets. If they set up a base, and are not just a Dropship surrounded by the defending units, they would have to abandon the base.

I think that the reasonable way for the raiders to react to an artillery attack (assuming they have at least a guess about the size of the opposing force) is to emergency lift off the Dropship without loading their defenders and move towards their reinforcements. They can detect artillery positions on a fly-by. The defenders it left then move out to deal with artillery and its guards. This way raiders have a chance to keep the base and simply return the Dropship to the same location afterwards.

[Iron Mongoose]

With that much infanty, they might try and rush it. A dropship is a rich prize, and a militia will have lots of old timers wiling to take big risks for the Dragon. They don't have a particular advantage in power, so a diversion by most of the force to draw out defenders and a charge by the fastest APCs to take the Overlord and neutralize (or even capture)  its guns might look more tempting than going gun to gun with a powerful dropship.

I don't know what rules would cover that, however, so that may be good or bad advice depending.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

With that much infanty, they might try and rush it. A dropship is a rich prize, and a militia will have lots of old timers wiling to take big risks for the Dragon. They don't have a particular advantage in power, so a diversion by most of the force to draw out defenders and a charge by the fastest APCs to take the Overlord and neutralize (or even capture)  its guns might look more tempting than going gun to gun with a powerful dropship.

I don't know what rules would cover that, however, so that may be good or bad advice depending.

The defenders should be really stupid to leave the Dropship alone. And when it takes off?

The rules for infantry actions inside a Dropship are in TacOps. Though, they are quite abstract.

[Grognard]

as I understand it, Arty is not available.

that leaves LRMs and AC2s to pelt it from maximum range.
and deploy your other forces to protect your LRMs from the raider's response forces.
oh.
and mass most everything on one side.
individual infantry squads for indirect fire could try to sneak in close.

[idea weenie]

High-speed infantry transports, artillery-delivered smoke munitions, and something to deal with the defenders.

Your goal should be an infantry transport that has a flank speed of 15+, to go from outside dropship weapons range to range 0 in 2 turns.  Smoke rounds would be used to block line of sight for the Dropship's and other defenders' weapons, while fast ranged units distract.  Small fast units to get in and salvo short-ranged weapons would help too (fast SRM carriers would be ideal).

The other option would be using your defending forces to snipe/harass the raiding forces directly.  The raiders will have to bring a larger force each time, meaning they carry less loot.


For the numbers you provided, there are 4 Mechs and 7 tanks defending the Dropship, with another 8 Mechs arriving soon to reinforce them.  The militia is 1 company of tanks, and a mess of APC infantry.  Off-hand, I'd say the raider has greater forces, and the militia needs to hunker down to weather the ASF strikes.  The defenders need to put out a call for mercs (traditional farming 'village' being attacked by bandits), preferably hungry mercs.

The other option would be having someone near the HPG station so as soon as the raiders arrive, they put out a call to the nearest House unit.  Let the Draconis House forces deal with the Mechs, the locals will provide the spotters/troops to capture the Dropship.

[Charistoph]

Since it is 3060, whose ship is it?  Cat, Rat, Laugh, Bear?  Merc?

Some decisions will be based on who it is.  A Merc Overlord either means rich, very very good, or both.  Clan with tanks usually means a second-line unit (not counting the Horses).  If Bear or Steiner, they'll be tough for their weight class, so speed will win out.  If Davion, they'll be good, but more balanced out, so hitting hard will work better.

But, yeah, infiltrate to board, and then lock the tanks and mechs out and start depressing guns.  Use the tanks to draw the heavy units away before storming the ramps.  And hope they don't have Battle armor.

It's the best route aside from waiting for better units to show up, especially if you lack artillery and/or air assets.

[Karimancer]

I'm not entirely serious about this so don't shoot at me, but has anyone ever considered sapping or mining? You know, dig a tunnel under the DropShip, fill it full of bombs then detonate. It may not damage the ship much (if at all), but depending on the local geology it could collapse enough of the underlying terrain to pull it into a sinkhole or knock it over. It would probably take too long though. Still, the thought of it amuses me.

[JenniferinaMAD]

I'm not entirely serious about this so don't shoot at me, but has anyone ever considered sapping or mining? You know, dig a tunnel under the DropShip, fill it full of bombs then detonate. It may not damage the ship much (if at all), but depending on the local geology it could collapse enough of the underlying terrain to pull it into a sinkhole or knock it over. It would probably take too long though. Still, the thought of it amuses me.

That would require the dropship to stick around for long enough to get that tunnel dug. The enemy will be scouting, so you can't dig the tunnel from too close or you'll give the game away too soon. If you dig from far away, you're going to need a long time (longer than most raiders will stay) or you'll need huge digging machines that you'll be hard pressed to have on hand standing by.

It's not impossible, and sounds like a cool event for an RPG campaign, but it's going to have to be a unique event (which also makes it all the cooler).

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Perhaps if the raiders unknowingly made their planethead right on top of some mine shafts, the defenders might expand them as a military tactic...

[Kidd]

This is in the mid 3060s. 

So I have a grounded Overlord class dropship defended by a lance of medium to heavy battlemechs, three heavy tanks, one medium tank and three light tank.  The reinforcements are about five hours away and consist of eight battlemechs mostly heavies and mediums, one heavy ASF and one medium ASF, three light hover tanks, three Maxims and an infantry company. 

The militia militia attack force will consist of a medium to assault tank company backed up by a battalion of infantry with APCs.  The terrain is mostly hilly with the dropship being on a landing pad with some buildings near it.

I presume, by the lack of raiding units, that the main battle between raiders and defenders is going on elsewhere. The smart thing to do is to wait for the medium Mechs and hover units to arrive and then attack the Dropship, using all available cover, hull-down positions, and smoke LRMs if any to negate the Overlord's weapons. Hold back the ASFs just out of sight/range - if the raiders retreat into the DS, all forces target the DS; if the raiders advance, try to lead them out of range of the DS and then strike from above. It should be quite winnable for the militia; any time the DS tries to lift off the aerospace fighters will bring it down.

How would the militia conduct the assault?

CAN'T WAIT FOR REINFORCEMENTS WE MUST ATTACK NOW! KURITA RYU-SAMA BANZAI, CHAAAARGE!

[Karimancer]

That would require the dropship to stick around for long enough to get that tunnel dug. The enemy will be scouting, so you can't dig the tunnel from too close or you'll give the game away too soon. If you dig from far away, you're going to need a long time (longer than most raiders will stay) or you'll need huge digging machines that you'll be hard pressed to have on hand standing by.

It's not impossible, and sounds like a cool event for an RPG campaign, but it's going to have to be a unique event (which also makes it all the cooler).

You mean you don't keep a company of Dig Lords on hand at all times? What sort of commander are you?

[JenniferinaMAD]

You mean you don't keep a company of Dig Lords on hand at all times? What sort of commander are you?

I looked into those. They don't have a minibar. Pass.

[Karimancer]

I looked into those. They don't have a minibar. Pass.

You know they come with fluid guns, right? Four of them. And ten tons of liquid storage. That combo makes for one hell of a kegger.

[JenniferinaMAD]

Kegger? Oh my, how rank and file.

[Karimancer]

Pfff. Pirate baby! I'm in charge because I beat everyone else up. But if I keep them drunk in their off time they stay happy.  ;)

[Col Toda]

A lot of DC militias have mech buster conventional fighters . Still more Behemoth assault tanks . Others with some variant of Shilton and their C3 lance mates. What hardware they have and how hot and frequent the planet is raided determines if they attack a grounded drop ship or not. Calculated risk with militias is .

[Paul]

So I have a grounded Overlord class dropship defended by a lance of medium to heavy battlemechs, three heavy tanks, one medium tank and three light tank. 

The militia militia attack force will consist of a medium to assault tank company backed up by a battalion of infantry with APCs.  The terrain is mostly hilly with the dropship being on a landing pad with some buildings near it.

A few options:

A. Maintain a tight formation on the tanks and blast the crap out of the DropShip while you're at Lng Range. The bonuses you have should reduce how often the DroipShip hits, while you will likely hit with most of your shots.

B. Alternatively, if terrain permits, deploy the infantry in a tight formation (presuming 4 platoons per company, 3 companies, that's 6 hexes worth of troops) and rush those over the nearest hill. Most of the opposing weapons should be feeble unless they brought infernoes or frag/flechette ammo, so the infantry can't be killed fast enough. Their damage on the DropShip will mount quickly.

Once the DropShip is weakened, demand surrender or they will lose their dropship.

Honestly, it's a very close fight between the Mechs and tanks vs your tank company, and the DropShip likely tips the balance, so the real answer is that most militia would avoid this fight altogether. You'd need to deploy your infy such that the enemy has to get in their range in order to get to your tanks. That's avoidable unless you make that infy rush on the dropship, they cant ignore that. That's the only way to win the conventional fight, as I suspect that militia company to get slaughtered rapidly. It's outmatched pretty significantly...

Paul

[JenniferinaMAD]

Unless that infantry has LRMs or similar, you know for a fact that the dropship can't lift up anytime soon, or you can force your way into the dopship quickly enough, I'd advise against charging a dropship with them. All the dropship needs to do is fire its engines, briefly lift off and land again, and the exhaust blast rules will incinerate any infantry in 6 hexes.

[Paul]

Unless that infantry has LRMs or similar, you know for a fact that the dropship can't lift up anytime soon, or you can force your way into the dopship quickly enough, I'd advise against charging a dropship with them. All the dropship needs to do is fire its engines, briefly lift off and land again, and the exhaust blast rules will incinerate any infantry in 6 hexes.

Excellent point. I am assuming that it cannot, but that may not be a safe assumption.

Paul

[Karimancer]

Unless that infantry has LRMs or similar, you know for a fact that the dropship can't lift up anytime soon, or you can force your way into the dopship quickly enough, I'd advise against charging a dropship with them. All the dropship needs to do is fire its engines, briefly lift off and land again, and the exhaust blast rules will incinerate any infantry in 6 hexes.

Seems like a good way to rid yourself of your excess prison population. "Here you go, lads. Take these guns and these half-tracks and go get me that DropShip. Any of you that make it back get a pardon."

[CJKeys]

Something to remember from a campaign strategic standpoint is if you remove an enemy's ability to escape they will likely fight twice as hard. This may create a very deadly situation for the militia down the line if they destroy the enemy dropship as the raiders will have been forced from raiders to invaders with a specific target on which to take out thier newfound frustration, and with no hope of escape, they have nothing to lose.