Shilka and other SPAAGs

[Empyrus]

Yes, that Soviet/Russian Shilka self-propelled anti-aircraft gun.

Its real life specifications are easy enough to translate to BT. 20-ton weight is a good fit for the Shilka that weights 19 to 21 tonnes depending on the version. Armor is up to 15 mm thick for hull and 9.2 for the turret so i figured frontal armor could be 15 points strong and turret 10, others followed from that for total of 4 tons of standard plate. Road speed is stated to be 50 KPH and off-road speed 30 KPH, so 3/5 movement provided by 60-rated ICE is perfect.
The gun was the trickiest part because it is impossible to fit four of any AC to 20 ton BT chassis, and machine guns simply don't have reasonable range. But a single AC/5 could represent the 4x23mm autocannons the real Shilka has, and with 1 ton of ammo and 1-ton turret, it used all the left-over weight perfectly. Unfortunately this prevents use of multiple ammo types unless one uses house rule for splitting single bin for multiple types.
(Later variants of real Shilkas also have anti-air missiles but there are no good equivalents for them in BT so i'm ignoring them.)

BattleTech doesn't have radars and like really. A Beagle Active Probe could have represented the radar but it is really a ground sensor, not air radar. So, it will have to with a quirk and fluff-based systems.
-Anti-Aircraft Targeting. This one is self-explanatory.
-Difficult to Maintain. Real Shilkas are somewhat tricky to maintain apparently.
-Good Reputation. Due to its general simplicity and (relative) effectiveness.

The neat thing about Shilka is that it seems like something that would be replicated in BattleTech Universe at some point. Something to be used in backwater planets and the like.

Post-Clan Invasion, some easy improvements could be made, namely using a LB-5X AC, possibly add some armor plating or CASE.

Code: [Select]

Shilka

Mass: 20 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-C-D-A
Production Year: 2500
Cost: 264 000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 278

Power Plant:  60 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 32,4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Autocannon/5
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      10 points                2,00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                 60                       3,00
    Cruise MP:  3
    Flank MP:   5
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         1,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    1,00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  64                  4,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     15       
                                          Left/Right   13/13       
                                              Turret     10       
                                                Rear     13       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/5                                 T         1         1         8,00
@AC/5 (20)                                   BD        -         0         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 3
3t         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/1/1)

EDIT WTF, i don't think i pressed "Post" yet!

[Daryk]

You could also go with:

2x LAC/2s
1x RAC/2
4x Magshots and all the electronics you can fit

EDIT: Of course, the above only work in later eras, but a pair of Light Rifles wouldn't be out of place in the Age of War.  Your mention of the BAP got me thinking about more advanced tech...

[Empyrus]

Style-wise, RAC didn't feel like a good fit (since they're rotary guns, not merely multiple guns), 2xLAC/2 annoyed me because it would be so close to 4xLAC/2s.
Didn't think of MagShots but their short range makes them kinda bad for anti-aircraft work. And unfortunately there are no electronics i find interesting or suitable enough to represent a radar.

[Empyrus]

Also, i made a Tunguska copy (2xLAC/2 as main weapon, less damage but two chances of hitting) but... the missiles give me headache. 2xSRM4 feels like reasonable fit for the Tunguska's 8 anti-air missiles but as with anything short ranged in BT, they're not great anti-air weapons.
Fitting 8xT-bolt-5s simply isn't possible for the unit's weight (35 tons). Fitting 2xLRM5 would have extra tubes.

[Empyrus]

Renamed thread because of these...

Here's the Tunguska, with LRM-5s. It is heavier, better protected and more expensive but offers greater firepower and more chances of bringing down an enemy aircraft.

Quirks:
-Anti-Aircraft Targeting

Code: [Select]

Tunguska

Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Jihad
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3068
Cost: 680 625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 445

Power Plant:  140 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 43,2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  LRM-5s
    2  Light AC/2s
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                3,50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                140                      10,00
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         2,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    1,50
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV -  79                  4,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     18       
                                          Left/Right   16/16       
                                              Turret     15       
                                                Rear     14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Light AC/2s                                T         2         2         8,00
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4,00
@Light AC/2 (45)                             BD        -         0         1,00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 4
4t         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/1/1), IF 1


And here's Sparka, named with he Shilka's predecessor's nickname.

This one is simplicity in itself... and lacks radar and automated fire-control systems os it doesn't have any quirks. Armed with twin AC/2s with two tons of ammo for good range but nothing else really.

Code: [Select]

Sparka

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-D-D-A
Production Year: 2490
Cost: 373 750 C-Bills
Battle Value: 296

Power Plant:  90 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 32,4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  Autocannon/2s
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                3,00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                 90                       6,00
    Cruise MP:  3
    Flank MP:   5
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         1,50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    1,50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  64                  4,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     15       
                                          Left/Right   13/13       
                                              Turret     13       
                                                Rear     10       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Autocannon/2s                              T         2         2        12,00
@AC/2 (90)                                   BD        -         0         2,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 3
3t         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/1/1)



[Daryk]

Nice... 30 tons is a sweet spot: you only need two crew...

[Empyrus]

Nice... 30 tons is a sweet spot: you only need two crew...

Crew requirements in BattleTech are really odd. Smaller units usually have far less crew than IRL similar sized vehicles, while larger vehicles require frankly ridiculous amounts of crew. One crew per 15 tons is kinda silly rule, though very practical.

Of these, the Shilka and Sparka need two crew, while Tunguska needs three.

[worktroll]

I'm thinking that the 4 Magshots is probably the most realistic config.

Hear me out! The Shilka only handles low-level air defence. The 23mm cannon have relatively short ranges - they were meant for handling attackers coming in low and slow, under the minimum ranges of SAMs which were meant to be the mid- and high-level defences. And historically, they were favoured for their ability to pour lead into surface targets.

Given BT's whole 'range' issue - with even Gauss Rifles having ranges well under 750m, compared to C21 MBT 120mm guns - then having a 270m range is proportional. At least to me.

[Empyrus]

Plausible... That said, i'd prefer something that is more like an autocannon rather than a Gauss gun...

If i did use them, I'm not sure what I'd do with the leftover weight.

[DOC_Agren]

an answer I have used to simulate ADATS (Air Defense Anti-Tank System) Missile is the RL10

[worktroll]

I've been pretending that the SRM-2 is a light-ultra-AC2 ... functionally similar, and capable of a range of alternate ammo types.

Shilka with an SRM-4 and a couple of tons of ammo ;)

[Empyrus]

That is even less autocannony than MagShots...

[worktroll]

Short range weapon doing cluster rounds at 2 points per hit. Just pretend it's an autocannon!

[Cryhavok101]

Another option is Protomech AC-2s which only weigh 3.5 tons. 15 tons for 4 of them with one ton of ammo to share.