MotW: Gyrfalcon

[Liam's Ghost]

I'd almost think of the Gyrfalcon as an ideal anti-air platform if it wasn't for the occasional reflec armor. Bombers love catching guys using reflec armor.

Though I could also imagine using that particular weakness as a trap. I wonder how many Lyran pilots have gone in for an easy bomb run only to get a pair of TSEMPs in the face and fall out of the sky?

I know, the odds of actually being shut down by a TSEMP are low, but just imagine the look on the pilot's face. Imagine it. Savor it. It's beautiful. Their anguish sustains me.

[sadlerbw]

The idea of pairing up CRAC/2s on this beast appeals to me.  Unlike the LB-2X, it will sure as hell still be generating multiple hits at range.  You'd have to drop the lasers, which stings, so perhaps pair that hypothetical variant with a Standard and watch the holes open up and then be immediately filled with lead at 24 hexes.

If you switch to an XXL you are almost half way there. After that the choices get tougher. Dropping the probe is easy, but do you drop the partial wing? Move to an XL gyro and drop MASC? Switch armors? You can get there, but fitting the second one requires a compromise.

[Iron Mongoose]

There's a bit of debate as to which sort of AC2 to use (I'm still team UAC, for the reference) but I think that masks the question of weather the mech succeeds because of its AC2s, or in spite of them.  Yes, I'll grant that its one of the better uses of the weapon, but when one wonders what could be done with those 12 tons, its hard not to wonder if this admittedly good mech is as good as it might be. 

What could be done?  A TC, an extra ER LL, and a pile of heatsinks (I don't know if the crits work) would add meaningful power, increase the accuracy of that power, with minimal loss of range.  You could do a larger engine, making the already quick mech even quicker.  Improved jump jets.  More and better armor.  ER LRMs.  A bevy of short ranged weapons, just to mix things up.

Now, maybe that's mid 31st century thinking, and in the 32nd century the larger numbers of tanks and other non mech targets makes it more desirable to have those 2-4 extra hits, and I've just missed the ball being out of the loop for a bit.  But there's a part of me that thinks that pure damage is usually enough to get the job done, and AC2s just don't carry their weight.

[Terrace]

I'm imagining the 3140's-era Turkina Keshik using this design in combination with the Shrike, Jade Hawk, and Eyrie for virtually all of the BattleMech portion, with enough Omnis sprinkled in to free the Elementals from requiring dedicated vehicles to cart them around.

[SteelRaven]

Whenever someone spends so much time talking about how a 'mech is a 'ideal anti-air platform' I get the impression it can do little more than that.

I kinda like the Gyrfalcon but that's more because of the ER Large Lasers, the Class 2 ACs are a good way to add firepower without sacrificing range or adding heat but I would like to see a variant that dumped the peashooters for more armor, maybe a better engine.

That said, it's a interesting response to the Wolves Sun Cobra. 

[JadeHellbringer]

There's no question that AC-2 class weapons are a bit subpar for the weight they cost- the AA advantage to the LB-2X is really its saving grace, and even then there's probably better ideas if you want to just hammer a target (I gave thought to Streak LRM-10s while writing the article, but never did get a chance to try building it to see if it looked okay or not)

Where it ends up being useful here, beyond that AA ability and ridiculous range, is the heat factor. With 11 heat sinks (13 for some variants), we're already taxing the heat system by firing both lasers, and adding in a run or jump means you're looking at some minor problems. Adding in the heat from other weapons like the LRMs or another large laser would start to cause some serious 'uh oh' issues, meaning either a Mech that suffers serious overheating problems  just from using its primary weapons (hello Hellbringer Prime), or one that has to hold off portions of its weaponry to keep from exploding, begging the question of why they're there to begin with. But these have extremely low heat buildup, and it really helps here to accentuate the main weapons (the lasers) without forcing the machine to make tougher heat choices than it already does. It's not often I'm a big fan of these weapons, but here it's a very useful system.

That said, it's a interesting response to the Wolves Sun Cobra. 

In an article already as long as it was, I decided to avoid comparisons to other Mechs (Rifleman aside), but yeah, they  make a very interesting match. The Cobra's accuracy and hitting power are very impressive, and you can't overheat one if you pour gas on it first, but it's surprisingly slow for a Clan medium- so it can't really avoid damage well, nor get into firing positions (or out of danger) quickly if it needs to. The Gyrfalcon meanwhile has a tricky heat curve to manage if you're aggressive with it, above-average mobility, and a bit more scattered damage curve. Both are very useful machines, but it's interesting to see the two Clans take very different methods to get where they're going.

[Kidd]

here's how it all started...

(Somewhere on Sudeten, a Falcon Watch officer removes hoods from a group of elderly blindfolded men)
Falcon Watch: Freebirth Scientists! You are now the property of Clan Jade Falcon!
Scientist: Why did you kidnap us?
Falcon: Because we killed all our Scientists, and we need new Mechs! You will design new Mechs for us! Now get to work!
Scientist: But... but... we don't know what kind of Mechs you...
(Falcon Officer shrieks like how he thinks a jade falcon should shriek, pulls out a needler and perforates the Scientist)
Falcon: WE ARE FALCONS! WE LIKE BIRDS! A LOT! NOW GET TO WORK, OR FEEL MY TALONED WRATH!
Scientists: Sir yes sir! You like birds! A lot! Got that loud and clear sir!

(Thus were the seeds sown for the Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike, etc...)

[Scotty]

I didn't like the LB-2X until I started imagining it operating essentially like a BOFORS (pom pom pom pom pom!) with the ammo drum rotating after each volley to load a new clip.  I just wish I possessed the modeling skill to cut out the drum and magnetize it to spin.

[JadeHellbringer]

(Falcon Officer shrieks like how he thinks a jade falcon should shriek, pulls out a needler and perforates the Scientist)

This is even funnier if you imagine him doing it like the people from Arrested Development, where no one knows what a chicken actually sounds like.  ^-^

[Weirdo]

My next goal: Design a mech for the Falcons, that with have a back thingy like a Hatamoto or Nobori-Nin...except it will look like a rooster's tail. The Warriors will love it, until a freeborn who spent his early childhood on a farm finally stops laughing long enough to explain. Bloodshed Hilarity ensues.

[JadeHellbringer]

My next goal: Design a mech for the Falcons, that with have a back thingy like a Hatamoto or Nobori-Nin...except it will look like a rooster's tail. The Warriors will love it, until a freeborn who spent his early childhood on a farm finally stops laughing long enough to explain. Bloodshed Hilarity ensues.

I don't know. This IS the Clan that gave their urban-renewal vehicle a name like 'Chalchiuhtotolin'. They may be baby-eating psychopaths, but the Jade Falcons at least have a little bit of a sense of humor about themselves somewhere.

[Empyrus]

I didn't like the LB-2X until I started imagining it operating essentially like a BOFORS (pom pom pom pom pom!) with the ammo drum rotating after each volley to load a new clip.  I just wish I possessed the modeling skill to cut out the drum and magnetize it to spin.

Pretty sure that's what AC/2s are really. Anything from the first QF 1-pounder to modern M242 Bushmaster autocannon mounted on Bradleys, that's basically AC2. Unfortunately BT doesn't really let them be what they are... (Or the weapon is really bad in BT's battlefields.)

Man, AC/2s in MWO were fun exactly for this reason... I remember sitting back in a Blackjack and frag-stealing half my teams' kills with steady firing.

[Kit deSummersville]

They may be baby-eating psychopaths

Omelets are tasty!

[Arkansas Warrior]

This is even funnier if you imagine him doing it like the people from Arrested Development, where no one knows what a chicken actually sounds like.  ^-^

Don't the Falcons have some sort of battle-language that's basically bird calls?  or was that one of those things that's mentioned once and then disappears?

[mbear]

It'd be kind of fun to have the standard Gyrfalcon face off against a Pandarus or Apollo-4M. I imagine the ELRMs might level the playing field a bit, especially against reflective armor.

And with the Sea Skimmer getting an ELRM variant, I imagine the LCAF quartermasters could get a few ELRM racks for their Omni units.

[JadeHellbringer]

It'd be kind of fun to have the standard Gyrfalcon face off against a Pandarus or Apollo-4M. I imagine the ELRMs might level the playing field a bit, especially against reflective armor.

And with the Sea Skimmer getting an ELRM variant, I imagine the LCAF quartermasters could get a few ELRM racks for their Omni units.

You'd need a brave Apollo driver. The ELRM gives you range that allows you to outrange the Clanner (one of the few ways to do so!), but the Gyrfalcon is fast enough (and jumps far enough) to get its movement modifiers up and make life difficult on the Apollo's ability to aim well at those ranges. The Clan pilot is probably best off doing something that doesn't come naturally to a Gyrfalcon driver- charging in. get in under those absurd minimum ranges, and that Apollo is totally helpless- if it finds a way to score a hit, half the missiles won't arm anyway, nerfing the damage from the launchers. Even the head-mounted laser is cut in half due to the reflective armor. If that seems unlikely, remember that the Apollo moves 4/6, against a Mech that can reach bursts of ten hexes at a time and can jump further than a bug Mech. The Clan pilot can and SHOULD dictate the range, and in this case it's 'find out what color his eyes are'.

That Apollo isn't HELPLESS, but it's at a huge disadvantage. Most of that applies to the Pandarus as well, really.

[Scotty]

Especially since ELRMs still aren't artillery, and will only do normal damage to Reflective.  Apollo runs out of ammo at 25 hexes and then the Gyrfalcon takes its 85% remaining armor and plays with it like a cat turn a mouse.

[Kharim]

Also, the Gyrfalcon 4 deserves notice, as being the most BV-expensive medium mech in all of Battletech. :)

Well you seem not to know about Skinwalker C (Ryoken III) a 55 ton machine that costs a whooping 4387 bv!

[Iron Mongoose]

Biggest risk against an ER LRM Apollo would be physicals.  Yes, on turns the Gyrfalcon wins int it can it can be exactly in the right spot, but when it loses, it has to chose to put itself in a spot where the Apollo can back up out of minimum range and take a lovely short range shot, or rush in to punching range and see what that nice shiny armor is really made of.  More terrain makes that harder, but taking a slow ER LRM mech against a mech with incredible jumping power in tight terrain is just silly at the best of times. 

Now, I do think the Gyrfalcon still wins three times in four, but I think its a bit of a miss match to say let's do this one on one.  The Falcons (from what I recall, which goes back a bit) aren't really up on zell, and no sensible person should be using Apollos alone.  A pair or lance of ER LRM mechs in a company against a pair or star of Gyrfalcons in a star or binary would be a more reasonable thing to see, and I think it would be more interesting.  The Gyrfalcons can't rush in, but their ability to do their usual thing is impacted.  Honestly, I think with the G-Falcons spending more time dodging fire, both sides would just spend most of their time missing and taking one another out of the battle, unless one or both sides have very solid pilots.

[Weirdo]

Well you seem not to know about Skinwalker C (Ryoken III) a 55 ton machine that costs a whooping 4387 bv!

...I think it's safe to assume that I'm aware of a mech that was discussed already in this very thread.

I believe that XTRO was not yet out when I checked the BV, and I probably had not compared it to everything else in the game since then.

[misterpants]

I wonder if there would be a market for a TSEMP-based variant with a short-range laser battery and talons.

[marauder648]

Great write up, I was initially weary of this mech because of those tonnage nomming LB-2s but when used as you suggest, bouncing around at damn long range, pelting fire all the time then its verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry dangerous.  I don't mind the  UAC versions, sure you loose a bit of range but its still enough to work well with the ER large. 

Not sure about TSEMP's, as they seem a bit niche, but I guess they are useful, especially as the Falcons treat EVERYONE as Dezgra save the clans when figthing so stunlocking someone and then having another mech rip it apart would make sense.

[Kojak]

I don't know. This IS the Clan that gave their urban-renewal vehicle a name like 'Chalchiuhtotolin'. They may be baby-eating psychopaths, but the Jade Falcons at least have a little bit of a sense of humor about themselves somewhere.

I'd have to imagine they do, or else how to you explain this?:


Pictured: A Jade Falcon Mechwarrior grits his teeth so vigorously it causes his cooling vest to pop open

[marauder648]

I'd have to imagine they do, or else how to you explain this?:

COBRAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

[Kidd]

I'd have to imagine they do, or else how to you explain this?:


Pictured: A Jade Falcon Mechwarrior grits his teeth so vigorously it causes his cooling vest to pop open

Internal monologue: "I am a bird on the wing... watch how I soar... (squawwwrrrrk!)"

[mbear]

Especially since ELRMs still aren't artillery, and will only do normal damage to Reflective.

D'oh! I forgot that part. Thought Reflective took double damage from anything that wasn't an energy weapon. But it does look like reflective armor takes double damage from physical attacks, so a Mjolnir (or three) would probably be a better counter.

[JadeHellbringer]

D'oh! I forgot that part. Thought Reflective took double damage from anything that wasn't an energy weapon. But it does look like reflective armor takes double damage from physical attacks, so a Mjolnir (or three) would probably be a better counter.

This marks the first time anyone has said anything positive about a Mjolnir.

The problem is, the Mjolnir can advance only slightly faster than a Gyrfalcon can backpedal, and it actually is outjumped by the Clan machine. The TSM is helpful (and those single heat sinks mean it'll get used, oi...), but by the time a Mjolnir can get in close enough to use anything other than its laser it's probably been sliced to ribbons by the Gyr's attacks. I'd wager if you sent three, you lose two before they get anything more than passing shots off.

I'll back in so far that a fast-moving close-combat machine is a difficult thing for a Gyrfalcon to deal with- the Scarabus comes to mind, for example, or an Osiris (which in testing actually did give a Gyr 2 a rough afternoon before it got pooched by a supporting Hel Prime). The old, venerable Saladin is a great choice as well, because AC-20s hurt no matter what kind of armor you're wearing, and that has the speed to actually chase down a Gyrfalcon to get in the shots it needs. And of course, actual artillery is a good way to go- even if you don't cause direct damage, a Gyrfalcon is forced to leave its firing position and find somewhere safe from even a Thumper's shells, making for the single best way to deal with the Falcon's new toy (and that has to absolutely burn them, knowing dishonorable artillery fire is their greatest weakness). But the Mjolnir... I'm honestly surprised to see it as your solution to the Gyrfalcon. I'm hard-pressed to think of it as the solution to any battlefield problem, other than 'the enemy will run out of ammo by killing these first'.

[SD501st]

I think we've found the perfect target for a Celerity CLR-05-X... maybe the Republic should give that Celerity variant the nickname "Bird Dog".

[Caedis Animus]

I'd imagine a Berserker ambushing a Gyrfalcon under double-blind would be almost hilarious. For the Berserker.

Also, would the Spatha be an effective counter to the GyrFalcon, even taking into account the jumpjets? Both mount reflective armor, but the Spatha barely wins out in speed (Especially with TSM), and also is melee-focused.

[JadeHellbringer]

I'd imagine a Berserker ambushing a Gyrfalcon under double-blind would be almost hilarious. For the Berserker.

Also, would the Spatha be an effective counter to the GyrFalcon, even taking into account the jumpjets? Both mount reflective armor, but the Spatha barely wins out in speed (Especially with TSM), and also is melee-focused.

Beserker sneaking up on anything in double-blind ends badly for the opponent, to be fair. ;)

Spatha... honestly, I'm not sure it would go well. The reflective armor will keep the Spatha from taking as much damage from the Falcon's lasers, and it can close quickly, but the Clanner either has that amazing range advantage (and rapid backward movement) in an open field, or the jump jets giving it the edge in a cluttered field. It might not be a fun fight for the Falcon, but if used right it probably never sees the bad end of that sword.