Clan Cluster vs Light Combat Team

[AlphaMirage]

I was pondering a scenario in my current game of having match ups of typical front line Clan Clusters with the fighter binary being a Nova versus an upgraded FedSuns Light Combat Team.

Is an LCT enough to take on a clan cluster (ice hellions if it matters)?  Or would the spheroids need more firepower?

[Red Pins]

Sarna says its about four Companies of Mechs and a battalion of Heavy-Assault armor and a battalion of BA infantry - it should be ok.  Mind you, bad strategy and tactics mean you lose anyway.  The Fighters are a different matter, I'm Aerospace illiterate, sorry.

[Death by Lasers]

  I did some quick math in Megamek and found the BV for Cluster in miniature(1 unit representing 10) is about 23k and the BV for an LCT in miniature is also 23k BV.  Battlevalue is pretty decent at Clans vs. IS balance.  It very slightly overvalues the Clans but overvalues tanks by a larger margin.  However, everything should rebalance itself if you use random skill pilots assuming both sides are regular skill.  From this the fight between an LCT and a Cluster would be pretty close.

  The greatest weakness of the LCT will be in aerospace as I believe the average LCT has only one Wing (20) versus the Clusters Trinary (30) or Binary of fighters (20).  If the Clans use this edge cleverly they could do some significant damage with well placed mech killing dive bomb attacks or altitude bomb vehicle disabling cluster bomb runs.  On the ground the Clan mechs can use their mobility, skill, and range advantage to fire and fall back disabling the vehicles one at a time and killing any mechs that get too close. 

  The LCTs generous VTOL carried BA assets will be a problem, especially for the Clans slower machines but the Clans own elementals should be able to the tie them up a bit and the Clans lighter mechs will be far to mobile for the Battlearmor to keep in contact with once they leave their VTOLs.

  Overall I think the LCT could do it but it would be a very close fight unless the Cluster does something stupid like let itself get dragged into a slugging match instead of prancing at range like a deadly ballerina.

[Natasha Kerensky]

A typical Clan cluster is 45-50 mechs, 75 battle armor, and 30 fighters.  Maybe an additional 75 battle armor, 30 combat vehicles, and a bunch of solahma infantry if you're a Hell's Horses player.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Hell%27s_Horses_Touman#Unit_Structure

Assuming Sarna correctly quoted Field Report AFFS, an LCT will field 36-40 mechs, 144-240 combat vehicles, up to 400-500 battle armor, and some artillery and VTOL transport/recon assets:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Inner_Sphere_Military_Structure#Light_Combat_Team

Assuming the LCT is escorted by aerospace assets that match the cluster's aerospace trinary, the LCT will just swamp a Clan cluster with combat vehicles and battle armor.  The Clan technological and G/P advantage cannot overcome those numbers.  If you want your scenario to be evenly matched, the AFFS side should only field a fraction of an LCT's combat vehicles and battle armor.

Here's the TO&E for a highly optimized Ice Hellion cluster with flurry auxiliaries that may help:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=46989.msg1084228#msg1084228

FWIW...

[Death by Lasers]

  Oh wait, I only added half the tanks in my LCT in miniature ::).  It's closer to 35k BV versus the Clusters 23k BV.  Yeah, that's too many tanks for a single Cluster to handle.  You will need to halve the tanks to give the Cluster a fair fight.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I was pondering a scenario in my current game of having match ups of typical front line Clan Clusters with the fighter binary being a Nova versus an upgraded FedSuns Light Combat Team.

Is an LCT enough to take on a clan cluster (ice hellions if it matters)?  Or would the spheroids need more firepower?

The answer will depend upon the era. 

To extrapolate: The further along the timeline, the more erosion there is in quality of materiel between Clan and Successor State armies.  And it's not just the IS powers fielding ever more and more Clan-spec hardware... the Clan toumans are simultaneously relying more and more upon IS tech.  And for the trifecta: Clan Toumans are also relying more and more upon vehicles for military might, and Clan vehicle crews are "teh suck" with a baseline 5/6 skill no matter what tech they're driving.

IMO: As of the Dark Age, a LCT should be about an even match for a contemporary Clan Cluster.  Perhaps that's still true as early as the Jihad (depending more upon a disparity in quality/prestige of the respective units favoring the IS side, but still).  Prior to the Jihad?  A typical LCT is probably outmatched by a typical Cluster.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Even a cluster full of supernovas is going to be swamped by an LCT's  conventional assets.  Just way too many tanks and BA to handle.

[Kidd]

Interesting topic.

What game system would be best to try and simulate this out? I think something with company sized units?

[Scotty]

Even a cluster full of supernovas is going to be swamped by an LCT's  conventional assets.  Just way too many tanks and BA to handle.

This line of thinking always forgets that the Clan ER Large Laser and Clan Large Pulse Laser exist.  No conventional vehicle force, with an unbounded battlefield, will be able to effectively retaliate while ceding engagement range against faster opponents and firepower/accuracy against slower opponents.

It will take a long damn time, relatively speaking, but that's what happens when you have to units that meet on an otherwise featureless plain with no objectives to fight for.  The things that make fights 'even' are things that aren't actually included in most fights.  Otherwise minmaxing always wins on paper.

[Death by Lasers]

  Just thought of something: you could add a Flurry cluster as an auxiliary to your front-line cluster.  That should balance things out and make for an interesting fight.  A Flurry is made up almost exclusively of fast attack hover craft and VTOLs with only a handful of mechs.  You could potentially add up to 150 hovercraft/VTOLs to your Clan force, more than enough to make for an even fight.

  Scotty I am with you to a degree.  I've play-tested a Cluster vs an armored Brigade of three regiments (in miniature of course) on a reasonably cluttered map and won but the "Cluster" was in sorry shape by the end of it.  With that kind of disparity of numbers even the occasional hit starts to take its toll and maintaining the distance becomes difficult to do indefinitely with even minor amounts of terrain.

  When you throw in the Aerospace, Battlearmor, and Mechs on top of the up to 2 regiments of Armor in this case its going to be very difficult for the Cluster.  At least its the Hellions force of fast mechs should have better time keeping distance than most Clans.  Great, now I want to try it out ;D

[Arkansas Warrior]

This line of thinking always forgets that the Clan ER Large Laser and Clan Large Pulse Laser exist.  No conventional vehicle force, with an unbounded battlefield, will be able to effectively retaliate while ceding engagement range against faster opponents and firepower/accuracy against slower opponents.

It will take a long damn time, relatively speaking, but that's what happens when you have to units that meet on an otherwise featureless plain with no objectives to fight for.  The things that make fights 'even' are things that aren't actually included in most fights.  Otherwise minmaxing always wins on paper.

Vehicle forces always have to deal with those sorts of disadvantages, even against purely IS-tech forces.  When used properly in combination with mechs, ASF, an artillery battery, and a regiment of battle armor, they can overcome their innate disadvantages.  Also, who said we're engaging on a pool table?  No sensible IS commander is going to ride out and meet a cluster that can outmaneuver him on a flat grassland.

[Scotty]

Who said we're not? :P It was a question posed without context, and assuming context where none was given doesn't help either side.

When it comes right down to it, an LCT's 'Mech forces are outgunned and outmatched by a typical Clan Cluster.  Its vehicle forces can either keep up and be similarly undergunned or underarmored, or they can get there long after the 'Mechs are smoking ruins.  Without an objective to fight over, the Clans win hands down 9 times out of 10.  This is, empirically, the reason they won victory after victory in the opening stages of the Invasion.  They didn't start losing until the objectives changed radically, and they didn't lose with any real finality until they were forced to fight over cities and points of interest like their Spheroid counterparts.

"Ultimate Death Battle: LCT versus Cluster" favors the Cluster every day of every week.  The Spheroids don't need more firepower or more numbers, they need a compelling reason for the Clan side to give up the range advantage, or they get nowhere.

[Arkansas Warrior]

This isn't 3050.  The clan range and speed advantages aren't what they used to be.  One of the favored BA transport VTOLs in the LCT is the Cavalry Infiltrator, which as fast as a Dasher and just as capable of dropping a squad of battlearmor on your head.  LCT Cavalry squadrons are likely to include designs like the Fulcrum and Hawk Moth, which can run with most clan units, and the Hawk Moth even matches the range of the ERLL.  And no clan unit matches the range of the LCT's artillery.

If the LCT is playing defense, which is likely if we are working with a Clan Invasion type paradigm, then it's even worse for the clans, because they have to dig the IS force out if they're to pacify the world.  That range advantage doesn't matter much if you're hunting Demolishers, Typhoons, and Grenadiers in the urban jungle.  Or even in an actual jungle (though I wouldn't take Typhoons into the woods).  If the LCT aid on offense, I can see how a mobile defense gives the cluster a fighting chance, but I still think that vs an IS force that might be 3+ regiments strong, they're going to get boxed in eventually.

[Scotty]

You're right!  This isn't 3050.  It's also not the Jihad, or the Dark Ages.  It is, at this very moment, a timeline blank where we have no information about why there's fighting happening.  In the absence of any objective whatsoever beyond "Fight!" what's stopping the Clan force from leveling the city one block at a time until there is no city left?  You're still supplying context that wasn't included in the initial question.  We could make up a million different scenarios about how one side or the other could gain advantage, and all of them are utterly useless if they're not what the OP is looking to accomplish.

More information about the fight is needed.  If there isn't any more, and the Clan force doesn't actually have a concrete reason to enter a city, or really stay locked down on any single objective, then it plays out as a massive Clan victory.

[Natasha Kerensky]

When it comes right down to it, an LCT's 'Mech forces are outgunned and outmatched by a typical Clan Cluster.  Its vehicle forces can either keep up and be similarly undergunned or underarmored, or they can get there long after the 'Mechs are smoking ruins...

"Ultimate Death Battle: LCT versus Cluster" favors the Cluster every day of every week.  The Spheroids don't need more firepower or more numbers, they need a compelling reason for the Clan side to give up the range advantage, or they get nowhere.

I say this as a (usually) Clan player, but no, just no.  Even on featureless terrain with no objectives to defend.

The average Spheroid 4/6 mech still advances faster than the average Clan 5/8 mech can back up.  The cluster may be able to eke out a few turns of ER large laser, ATM ER, and 5-class or smaller AC fire at 23+ hexes while the LCT cannot effectively respond.  But under 23 hexes, the LCT's ER PPCs, Gauss cannons, and LRMs have the same range as the Clans' versions of those weapons.  The Clans cannot avoid return fire for even a minute, forget indefinitely.

(And actually, that's not even true because the LCT has a company of artillery that far outranges anything the cluster brings to the table barring a few Arrow IV units, assuming the cluster even has them.)

On top of that, half of the LCT's 144-240 vehicles are fast cavalry units.  So we're talking 72-120 hovertanks and such moving 8/12+ sweeping in from the flanks.  Even a cluster composed of nothing by super-fast Fire Moths can't back up fast enough to outrun that kind of flanking force.

Even worse for the cluster, the LCT has up to a regiment of VTOL-transportable BA.  Those BA battalions are just going to be flown right over and dropped into the rear of the cluster to cut off its retreat.  At that point, the cluster will have nowhere to run.

It's game over within a couple minutes for the cluster.  The LCT has so many hundreds of units, so many of which are highly mobile vehicles or have access to highly mobile transports, that the cluster will be surrounded and cut down in short order despite the modestly superior range and speed of its Clantech omnimechs compared to Spheroid battlemechs. 

To have a decent shot at victory, a frontline Star Colonel with half a brain will augment his cluster with two or three secondline clusters when facing a force with the numbers and speedy combat vehicles of an LCT.  Otherwise, it's practically a Trial of Annihilation.

Without an objective to fight over, the Clans win hands down 9 times out of 10.  This is, empirically, the reason they won victory after victory in the opening stages of the Invasion.

No, the Clans didn't face LCTs during Operation Revival.  (LCTs didn't exist back then.)  Heck, the Clans didn't even face that many RCTs.  If you read the Wolf and Falcon sourcebooks or the scenario packs from that time, most engagements were under a regiment in size, not terribly different from Clan trials.

It was only when trying to take national or regional capitals (Rasalhague, Tamar, Luthien) -- or the proxy battle for Terra on Tukayyid -- that the Clans engaged in multi-regiment warfare like what fighting an LCT would be like.  That kind of warfare was rare for the Clans in the Homeworlds, and not surprisingly, their record is much more mixed in those bigger engagements.

Hope this helps.

[Hellraiser]

This isn't 3050.  The clan range and speed advantages aren't what they used to be.  One of the favored BA transport VTOLs in the LCT is the Cavalry Infiltrator, which as fast as a Dasher and just as capable of dropping a squad of battlearmor on your head.  LCT Cavalry squadrons are likely to include designs like the Fulcrum and Hawk Moth, which can run with most clan units, and the Hawk Moth even matches the range of the ERLL.  And no clan unit matches the range of the LCT's artillery.

I'm with AW on this one.

While Scotty is right that clan mechs will usually outmaneuver IS Mechs/Tanks, the LCT also has a load of VTOLs for moving the BA.
Even 3025 Karnovs w/ IS-Standard suits will be able to get behind the clans & hinder any sort of mobile campaign of retreating away from the IS Mechs/Tanks to play the range game.


If we scale this down to smaller #'s its like a single Timberwolf-Prime facing off against a mixed/reinforced lance of Griffin-6S, Manticore-HPPC, Drillson-3025, Thumper-IFV, Karnov-BA, & 2 Squads of BA (ISS-RecRif + Puma)

Can the Timby crush any one of those? Yes.  Can it crush 2 of them?  Likely.  But can it face off against all 7 squads at once....... unlikely.   Its going to get slowed down dealing w/ 1 or 2 & get snared into facing them all.

Actually the Timby has an advantage being solo that a full Trinary/Cluster won't have, ability to get away at fastest speed.  The unit as a whole is limited by the slowest unit.  So the IS could catch only a portion of the cluster (say a binary) & then hammer it with excessive force because the rest ran away.
In this war of attrition the clan will likely loose.

[Hellraiser]

On top of that, half of the LCT's 400-500 vehicles are fast cavalry units.  So we're talking 200-250 hovertanks and such moving 8/12+ sweeping in from the flanks.  Even a cluster composed of nothing by super-fast Fire Moths can't back up fast enough to outrun that kind of flanking force.

Even worse for the cluster, the LCT has up to a regiment of VTOL-transportable BA.  Those BA battalions are just going to be flown right over and dropped into the rear of the cluster to cut off its retreat.  At that point, the cluster will have nowhere to run. 

I think your off in the #'s here.

The LCT has 4-ish Battalions  (17 Companies) of Vehicles roughly, on average.
So that is only 200-250 Vehicles, Total, not 400-500  (Some could be bigger)

Still more than enough to be a pain for a Cluster, but not unbeatable, just unlikely
After all, Single Clusters, did (rarely) face of against some RCTs & win.

I think the 400-500 is in BA & actually I think its more than that, a FS regiment is 1024 BA?


The Air-mobile BA is going to be the biggest hindrance to a cluster playing the range game IMO.

[Death by Lasers]

  Decided to do a very small scale game on Megamek against myself just to see how an LCT vs a Cluster might look like 3145.  I pitted a Gyrfaclon and an Ironhold Point vs an BJ2-O Blackjack, a Myrmidon (A-I), a Musketeer, a Condor (Laser), a Goblin II, a Hauberk Squad, and a Cavalier Squad.  I would have included some VTOLs but he battlearmor all had transports with the Musketeer and the Blackjack.  For simplicities sake I didn't include any Aerospace or Artillery namely because each unit represented 50 and I didn't want to up the scale for this test.  I played it out for about 30 minutes on three maps (battletech, open terrain 1, open terrain 2).

  It was dragging on so I quit but suffice to say after leaping from heavy woods to heavy woods the Gyrfalcon had immobilized all the tanks and killed the Myrmidon with its LBX-2s and LLs and had suffered moderate armor damage.  The Ironhold Point was dead but the Gyrfalcon was still in good shape.  The IS battlearmor were pristine but really struggling with all the 7 hex jumping.  Not the best test because Gyrfalcon is an unusually mobile design (random tables be damned!) and heavy woods + a 7 range jump is virtually an exploit but it nudged me a little to Scotty's way of thinking here.

[AlphaMirage]

Alright for some more info the era is 3068ish, the LCT is playing defense on their home turf.  They have two Battalions of Battle Armor, two of Mechanized Heavy Weapons, and one of Mechanized Combat Engineers as their infantry compliment.  The Mech Battalion has five companies with almost all upgraded to Level 2 tech.

Good discussions so far, knew this was the right place to get feedback.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

For a Civil War era context, I'd have to say the cluster is favored.

Still, depending on the circumstances involved in defense the LCT may force a go of it.  Especially if they can force the Clanners to fight on a prepared field of their own choosing.

[Natasha Kerensky]

I think your off in the #'s here.

The LCT has 4-ish Battalions  (17 Companies) of Vehicles roughly, on average.
So that is only 200-250 Vehicles, Total, not 400-500  (Some could be bigger)

I miscopied my BA figure from my first post as my vehicle figure in my second post.  I had 144-240 vehicles total originally in the first post and corrected the second post above.   

It looks like you're using square battalions.  I have no idea if that's what the AFFS used for combat vehicle organization in the LCT era, and so defer to your FedSuns-ish logo on that detail.

I think the 400-500 is in BA & actually I think its more than that, a FS regiment is 1024 BA?

Yeah, I had 400-500 BA in my first post and miscopied that as vehicles in my second post.  Again, defer to your FedSuns-ish logo on whether that's too small by a factor of 2x due to square battalions, command lances, regimental command company, etc.

FWIW...

[Scotty]

LCT playing defense on their home turf gets the nod from me.  Fortified positions, pre-plotted artillery, and concretely defined defensive objectives mean that even if the Cluster accomplishes its own objectives (the two need not be mutually exclusive) the LCT has a good shot.

Concretely defined objectives beyond "kill all the things" favor Spheroid troops.

[Iron Mongoose]

On the defense, things look good for the LCT.  The Hellions don't have much hope of winning power vs power. But, the Hellions will be vastly faster, tactically and strategically, so if they can hit targets of opportunity, string the tanks out, make the LCT disperse, then reconcentrate and wipe a company or two out...

If the presumptive Elsies play smart, they can't lose, but if the Hellions play smart, they also can't lose. Each needs the other to play their game to win.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Let's look at hard numbers for a minute.  To make things as fair as possible, I'll use the largest possible clan cluster, and the lowest numbers for the LCT.


At most, a Clan Cluster composed entirely of Supernovas would look something like this:
Command Nova, 5 Mechs, 25 Elementals
Alpha Supernova, 15 Mechs, 30 ASF  ::)
Beta Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals
Gamma Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals

Delta Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals
Epsilon Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals


Grand Total:
80 Mechs
30 ASF
325 Elementals


LCT:
BattleMech Battalion: 44 Mechs
Heavy Armor unit: 72 Heavy/Assault tanks
Cavalry unit: 72 Light/Medium tanks/VTOLs/etc
Battle Armor Regiment: 1024 BA
Artillery Battery
ASF Wing: 20 ASF


The Clans have a clear edge in the skies.  The AFFS has a clear edge in BA.  Can 80 Clan omnimechs take on 44 IS mechs, 144 tanks, and an artillery Battery?  Of course, it won't be that simple.  Most clusters will be smaller, most LCTs will be bigger.  And the AFFS isn't just going to line up their BA and say "Yeah, go take out those Toads while we handle the mechs."  Nor is the clan edge in the skies necessarily going to let them bomb with impunity, since that whole artillery battery can do double duty as AAA (not to mention any Partisans in the heavy armor unit, Riflemen or Jagermechs in the mech force, etc).


Maybe, if they're fighting on a sheet of glass, the only objective is "kill everything", we don't expect anyone to need sleep, and the AFFS force has a Social General in charge, the clan has a very narrow chance.  But in any reasonable scenario, I think they're going to get annihilated.

[mbear]

Let's look at hard numbers for a minute.  To make things as fair as possible, I'll use the largest possible clan cluster, and the lowest numbers for the LCT.


At most, a Clan Cluster composed entirely of Supernovas would look something like this:
Command Nova, 5 Mechs, 25 Elementals
Alpha Supernova, 15 Mechs, 30 ASF  ::)
Beta Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals
Gamma Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals

Delta Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals
Epsilon Supernova, 15 Mechs, 75 Elementals


Grand Total:
80 Mechs
30 ASF
325 Elementals

Some of those numbers can be offset by replacing the aerospace fighters with Elementals so there would be 400 Elementals. (Granted it's not much, but still.)

Given that they're Ice Hellions, it's going to be tight because they're mostly light and medium forces probably going up against medium and heavy units (LCAF). The Hellions are going to have to maximize their advantages in speed.

The Hellions have a lot more 'Mechs.  Take advantage of the 'Mech gap. IMHO the Hellions should use their fast 'Mechs to scout out the location of the heavy armor units and destroy them quickly, maybe by dropping Elementals. Then move on to anti-Mech work.

[Death by Lasers]

  I decided to try another scenario in miniature using the random assignment table from FM:Updates.  A very small scenario but the big ones take a lot of time.

Davion                           Ice Hellion
PHX-6D Pheonix Hawk       Ryoken B
Muskateer                        Elementals (Laser)
Drillson (Streak)
Goblin Infantry Support
Maxim (3052)
Karnov (BA)
Cavalier (Laser)
Infiltrator II

  This fight was also conducted on three mapsheets (Btech, Open 1, Open 2).  The result was a victory for the IS at the loss of the Pheonix Hawk and the Muskateer and the immobilization of the Goblin and the Maxim.  The IS had only the Karnov, the Cavalier, the Infiltrator II, and the Drillldon left as mobile assets and were at 40% of their original BV.  At least in this scenario our Hellions were outmatched although they weren't entirely overwhelmed.  Admittedly if the Hellions weren't using random tables they could have picked a longer range focused load out for the Ryoken omni-mech.

  In larger scale games the balance is relatively the same.   A year ago on a 17x48 generated board in Megamek I pitted a star of Clan mechs with 3 cluster bomb laden aerospace fighters and 3 elementals against a battalion of armor with a lance of supporting artillery and a couple battalions of conventional infantry (mechanized, jump, foot+transport).  The result was a heap of dead conventionals on one side and some scraps of ferro-fibrous armor held together by a few hair-width strands of myomer on the other.  If fighting this way the armor alone would use up 2 Trinaries of mechs, 1 Trinary of Elementals, and the full Binary of fighters leaving nothing but a 20 Mechs and a Binary of elementals to face the LCTs airpower and reinforced battalion of mechs.  Not good odds for the Cluster.

  Now a "Standard" Clan Cluster as far as I can tell is a Command Star, 2 Mech Trinaries, a Supernova Trinary, an Elemental Trinary, and an Aerospace Binary.

Clan               Strong LCT       Weak LCT
50 Mechs          48 Mechs           44 Mechs
20 Aerospace    20 Aerospace     20 Aerospace
-                      216 Tanks         144 Tanks
-                      12 Artillery        12 Artillery
-                      36 VTOL            12 VTOL
30 BA Points     108 BA Squads   36 BA Squads

  I would imagine in a normal scenario the Clans could probably squeeze a bit more out of their aerospace edge by conducting a series of cluster bomb runs but their air edge is just an edge with only a binary versus the LCTs wing.  On the ground the balance shifts a little back in favor of the LCT as with randomized skills the difference between Regular Clan and Regular IS pilots flattens out a little reducing the Clan skill advantage.

  In my estimation, even on relatively favorable terrain, the Hellions are going to be outmatched by the strong LCT.  They could hurt it badly, take it below half strength, and the Hellions unique mobility would actually be a greater asset in a Clan vs. IS fight than it would be against other Clanners, but attrition would grind down the badly outnumbered Hellions in the end.  Against a strong Regular skill LCT a Veteran Hellion cluster might do it but even then it would a close run thing.

  However, few LCTs had their full paper strength BA complement so if we take a weak LCT with only 4 Battalions of armor the match is more favorable for the Cluster.  If its a fight between a weak LCT and a strong Cluster I would call it close to even but against a full strength LCT I'm not sure the Cluster can pull off a victory even in favorable conditions.  At the very least the Hellions will have a large edge in strategic mobility with their complement of wickedly fast lights and mediums as Iron Mongoose points out.
 

[Iron Mongoose]

If one is trying to balance things, it has been previously noted that the Hellions often attach Fury units without bothering to note them officially.  Since Clan armor and infantry units are so oversized, it can add up quickly; three trinaries of armor would be 90 tanks, and a just a trinary of PBIs would still give you 250 foot.  Now, granted, we're not talking the same level of qualities as the Horses, and crew quality is probably below the Elsies, but committed at a key moment, especially if its sprung as a surprise, its a hell of an advantage.

If you want/need balance, other factors are repair status and readiness, since a Hellion Cluster will have probably just fought through the Falcons, while a Lyran or FedSun LCT is just coming off the Civil War in 68.  The implication is that both units would be reasonably seasoned (this hurts the Hellions, since better gunners can compensate for the Hellion speed advantage a bit) but there's a wide range of things that can be true.  If the LCT is being rebuilt, it could have a few green companies, or companies with cast off low tech equipment, either would be a huge burden against fast moving long ranged Hellions.  Or the Hellions could be low on ammo and restricted to energy configurations for their omnis, or fielding a few salvaged Falcon mechs that either slow them down to add to their power, or just be short a few stars of warriors.

I think there's broad consensus that the LCT has the edge.  If they're veteran or elite, victory becomes difficult or impossible for the Hellions.  If the terrain restricts the Hellion's movement, either tactically or strategically, even regular troops will win nine times in ten.

By contrast, veteran or elite Hellions can use their advantage in range more effectively, especially if the terrain is open enough to permit both tactical and strategic movement, but with just enough cover for a mobile force to spring a surprise or two (perhaps a la the 200th).  A few novas making an end run to take out Elsie rear areas and artillery would be a huge boon, for example.  Alternately, a world to defend with more than one important target with a meaningful bit of separation would almost ensure a Hellion strategic victory, since the LCT isn't strong enough to devide it self into two forces that can each beat the whole cluster.

[Arkansas Warrior]

For reference, FedSuns BA organization is entirely square:
4 troopers to a squad (4 troopers)
4 squads to a platoon (16 troopers)
4 platoons to a company (64 troopers)
4 companies to a battalion (256 troopers)
4 battalions to a regiment (1024 troopers)




How many BA a given LCT has is one of those era-dependent factors.  When the concept came about in the late Jihad era, a battalion seems to have been the norm.  By the Blackout, regiments are standard.  In between?  Depends on the unit in question's prestige, current assignment, proximity to suppliers, recent combat experience, etc.

[Hellraiser]

It looks like you're using square battalions.  I have no idea if that's what the AFFS used for combat vehicle organization in the LCT era, and so defer to your FedSuns-ish logo on that detail.

Yeah, I had 400-500 BA in my first post and miscopied that as vehicles in my second post.  Again, defer to your FedSuns-ish logo on whether that's too small by a factor of 2x due to square battalions, command lances, regimental command company, etc.

Square for the tanks is an error, I meant 13 not 17, so actually only 150-180 vehicles.

The BA is squared for the FC Nations.  4-16-64-256-1024

[Hellraiser]

Now a "Standard" Clan Cluster as far as I can tell is a Command Star, 2 Mech Trinaries, a Supernova Trinary, an Elemental Trinary, and an Aerospace Binary.

Nope.

"Standard" is
3 Mech Trinaries.
1 Elemental Trinary
1 ASF Trinary

45 Mechs
75 Elementals
30 ASF

Supernovas, Command Stars,  Lighter ASF are all deviations from the Standard of 5 Trinaries in a 3-1-1 layout.