TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold

[Charistoph]

Exactly, but judges have done plenty of bizarre things before (and for the sake of Rule 4 I will not mention them), so I'm just saying keep the champagne on chilled and ready, but don't pop the corks just yet. We've gotta see how Judge Zilly rules first.

Indeed they have.  Some have even allowed some very crazy evidence and considered it perfectly viable.  Others have even denied perfectly valid evidence.  Of course, that leaves things open for being appealed.  Most judges don't care for having their cases repealed, while others feel it is their duty to do what they consider right and hang law and precedence.

I wonder if theres a civil equivalent of right to speedy trial?

"Speedy" is a relative term.

[SCC]

considering it's the judge's job to call all bluffs, I wish them well.

Judges in modern western courts aren't there to find out the truth, one of the things we've lost since the Roman Empire.

"Speedy" is a relative term.

It all sort of depends upon how much stuff you're lawyer pulls.

[Frabby]

Judges in modern western courts aren't there to find out the truth, one of the things we've lost since the Roman Empire.

That depends. In my country, penal and administrative courts are "inquisitory" (?) courts, i.e. they're obliged to seek the actual truth behind the case they decide. By contrast, civil courts are to decide the case as put forth by the parties (with a few exceptions in special cases), and have no authority to investigate the matter further, as the parties themselves have to decide about what goes to court. Whenever a relevant fact is in dispute between the parties, the burden of proof is usually on whoever bases a claim on the disputed fact.
There was a somewhat famous case iirc a couple of years ago where two law professors brought a faux case before court, to enforce a court decision on a perceived problem in a law that was recently passed. Everyone knew it was made up but I think the court still had to decide it. I remember the discussion but not the actual outcome.

[Moonsword]

Ladies and gentlemen, this particular stompy robot forum is not the place to hold a discussion of the place and role of courts in western society and jurisprudence.  If you want to discuss that, please do that somewhere other than the official CGL BattleTech forums.

In addition, please remain on topic in this thread and remain civil when addressing each other.

[abou]

Anyone else nervous about tomorrow?

[Liam's Ghost]

Maybe? I'm resigned to things going wrong, but if they go right, I'm iffy on how I'll budget a feast day after all the money I've spent on gifts.

[Syzyx]

Gotta back LG on this one. I am assuming the worst and don't have the hope so many others do.

[monbvol]

Pessimism is the superior option.  You either get the satisfaction of being right or being pleasantly surprised.

[Pat Payne]

Anyone else nervous about tomorrow?

Not nervous, but cautiously optimistic. There's still a lot that could go wrong, but that wrong just means that the trial goes forward and HG is going to have to put up or shut up once and for all. However, if it goes right, they're gone forever.

[Daemion]

I'm not nervous. Either we go back to what we've dealt with for the last couple years, or we finally are free of a yoke.

Being the person I am, I'm expecting a positive outcome tomorrow.

[ColBosch]

Anyone else nervous about tomorrow?

Not me. Look, there's two key facts here. One, these designs are not copies of the Macross/Robotech machines. Two, Harmony Gold does not own the copyrights to those designs anyway. Of course HG is responding with whatever they can to keep the case alive, but the truth is on PGI's side. PGI's lawyers are certainly confident enough in their case that they're breaking with the usual routine for lawsuits.

[klarg1]

Even without a dismissal, the default would be to go ahead with the legal process as normal, wouldn't it? I am 100% for getting a favorable result sooner, rather than later, but lack of dismissal doesn't seem like the end of the world here.

[ColBosch]

Even without a dismissal, the default would be to go ahead with the legal process as normal, wouldn't it? I am 100% for getting a favorable result sooner, rather than later, but lack of dismissal doesn't seem like the end of the world here.

This is correct.

[pheonixstorm]

No, the end of the world may be that the 15th is no longer the dismissal date, but the 22nd. If I m reading this correctly anyway.

Docket #70

NOTICE that the following is RE-NOTED:47 MOTION for Summary Judgment As to Lack of Standing to Assert Copyright Claim . Filed by Defendant Piranha Games, Inc.. Noting Date 12/22/2017, (Meyer, Ryan)

[Nightlord01]

Pessimism is the superior option.  You either get the satisfaction of being right or being pleasantly surprised.

I'm not sure you understand what pessimism actually is...

But I think that a simple, neutral approach is best here. Best way to face this is without expectation, that way you can either be overjoyed or nothing at all.

[ColBosch]

No, the end of the world may be that the 15th is no longer the dismissal date, but the 22nd. If I m reading this correctly anyway.

Docket #70

A day, a week, doesn't matter. I am pretty confident here.

[ANS Kamas P81]

According to the civil rules for that particular district court, just to explain some legal terms.  It's a big document, sourced here:
http://www.wawd.uscourts.gov/sites/wawd/files/LocalCivilRules_Dec17_2012.pdf

The noting date is the date by which all briefing is complete and the matter is ready for the court’s consideration, although the court may not issue a ruling on that day.

All motions will be decided as soon as practicable, and normally within thirty days following the noting date.

Except for same day motions, all other motions shall be noted for consideration on a Friday.*

Third and Fourth Friday Motions. Motions to dismiss, motions for summary judgment**

So basically the noting day is a time when everything has to be done and in for the court to go over, though that may or may not include preliminary meetings with the attorneys or even a beginning of the case.  It looks to be that it's a hard date of sorts for the final decision process to begin, at least for whatever motions are made - there's opportunity prior to that date to handle responses to objections and other motions, so it certainly seems as if there's some active trial work going on at the time.

*Curious that they only handle motions like these on Fridays, leaving M-Th for the rest of the major business and 'mopping up the little things' just before the weekend.  Interesting work schedule idea.

**Highlighted as these are the actual motions in question, the Summary Judgement and all the responses since, that have to be in and dated by the 22nd.  It should also be noted that the only Fridays available in December based on this rule are the 15th and 22nd.

[Sharpnel]

Even without a dismissal, the default would be to go ahead with the legal process as normal, wouldn't it? I am 100% for getting a favorable result sooner, rather than later, but lack of dismissal doesn't seem like the end of the world here.

Until you put it in the hands of a jury and then all bets are off.

[ColBosch]

According to the civil rules for that particular district court, just to explain some legal terms.  It's a big document, sourced here:
http://www.wawd.uscourts.gov/sites/wawd/files/LocalCivilRules_Dec17_2012.pdf
So basically the noting day is a time when everything has to be done and in for the court to go over, though that may or may not include preliminary meetings with the attorneys or even a beginning of the case.  It looks to be that it's a hard date of sorts for the final decision process to begin, at least for whatever motions are made - there's opportunity prior to that date to handle responses to objections and other motions, so it certainly seems as if there's some active trial work going on at the time.

*Curious that they only handle motions like these on Fridays, leaving M-Th for the rest of the major business and 'mopping up the little things' just before the weekend.  Interesting work schedule idea.

**Highlighted as these are the actual motions in question, the Summary Judgement and all the responses since, that have to be in and dated by the 22nd.  It should also be noted that the only Fridays available in December based on this rule are the 15th and 22nd.

Thank you, your diligence in research is really helping this thread.

[VhenRa]

Until you put it in the hands of a jury and then all bets are off.

That right there is my main worry. A jury.

[beachhead1985]

Minus points for facebook, but someone on there mentioned in the running thread on this subject that this was in the can for us anyways, because the company that owns Catalyst did not respond themselves to the litigation. What?

That makes no sense to me. I think they are full of it.

[Pat Payne]

Minus points for facebook, but someone on there mentioned in the running thread on this subject that this was in the can for us anyways, because the company that owns Catalyst did not respond themselves to the litigation. What?

That makes no sense to me. I think they are full of it.

Yes and no. On the one hand, CGL has not responded for reasons unknown to the case and so was given a summary default judgement. On the other hand, it is not a fatal blow (just looks outwardly irresponsible), as if PGI can get a summary dismissal for the case, the judgement would dissolve, IINM. Even if the case goes to trial, it's not fatal, as far as I know, to the case.

[Moonsword]

Ladies and gentlemen, please stick to discussion of the facts of this case, without getting into ancillary issues like jury conduct.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Do we have any details from PACER on just what the default entails?  Was it merely a response issue or something deeper as far as IMR is concerned?

[pheonixstorm]

run of the mill default judgement in favor of HG. I don't think anything else will be settled until something happens in the case against PGI/HBS. If CGL has retained a lawyer this may be what they are waiting for before they reenter the fight (if the Judge/Jury goes in favor of defendants)

[marauder648]

Lets hope not, I hope HG gets slapped round the face with a legal brick about this.

[Dohon]

Lets hope not, I hope HG gets slapped round the face with a legal brick about this.

Not only that, but just having all this ... mess be over with. For good this time. That will make me celebrate.

[Von Jankmon]

My main concern is that from what I have been reading Catalyst and Harebrained have gone cheap on legal representation.
The guys behind Mechwarrior Online have forked out for proper legal counsel.

Not buying into the legal system is rarely a good idea and can easily backfire on you even if you have a logical case to clearly defend.

Now litigation costs in the US are steep, and steeper yet in corporate cases, and are tantamoun to a tax, you lose out if you don't pay.  Nevertheless Catalyst and Harebrained have erred heavily by lowballing these expenses even if they can piggyback to some degree on the legal work of Piranha games

I frankly think that going cheap is what cost FASA fair justice, back in the day and Battletech has suffered ever since.  Perhaps the alleged relationship between Harmony Gold, Tatsunoko and Big West regarding IP franchising that Piranha Games legal team has discovered could have ben discovered two decades ago.  Wecan but speculate.

Why say this? FASA didnt have the money for lawyers neither does Catalyst.  It is true that it is  a common tactic to tailor corporate litigation to drain out the resources of a smaller company, perhaps that is what Harmony Gold has been counting on all this time.  Legal fees have broken companies bigger than FASA and Catalyst.

I make my point because there is another way.  What Harebrained, Catalyst and possibly FASA has failed to realise is that they are well liked companies providing a service to fans, which garners more product loyalty than mere customers.  If my favourite soft drink or chocolate company went under I might miss the product but life goes on, if someone took away my Battletech and I would be upset about it, so would a lot of you.  Again that might not matter in the big scheme of things, customer or fans, they are both the same when it comes to fiscal matters.  However some fans are also lawyers, and this is where it get interesting.

Do you remember the Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse lawsuit?  Gamesworkshop was a litigious giant, making vague claims to IP ( though in my opinion less vague than what we have seen by Harmony Gold) and unlike Harmony Gold nobody can accuse GW of squatting on its IP.  Games Worshop also has dedicated fans of its own, especiaally now post management shake up.  However it also had enemies in the gaming community in its darker days, and some of those enemies were also lawyers.

Chapterhouse got the legal coverage at the price it had because many of the representing lawyers were gamers with an axe to grind about GW's corporate methods and were able to convince their partners to support Chapterhouse pro bono.
Were it not for that Chapterhouse would have been bullied financially and would have has to come to terms from fiscal pressures long before the merits of the case could be discussed.

FASA died long before the Chapterhouse case and can be forgiven for not forseeing this opportunity.  After all choosing lawyers because they are gamers sounds unprofessional frankly.  But it can work.  So here is where the error in lowballing legal support for Catalyst and Harebrained Schemes is avoidable, and lowballing is a generous term here, if the reports I have been reading are correct one of the above hasn't even got any more than token legal support at all.  I do hope that this is wrong.

Anyway, I do not think interested parties would need to go far to find a competent lawyer who remembers playing Battletech, said lawyer might not be happy about the way the fiasco with the Unseen has gone down and might agree to provide legal representation pro bono, for the mutual benefit of taking down Harmony Gold and their BS, and claim their fees from them if successful.  Stranger things have happened, and one can but try.

One additional point about Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse case.  Chapterhouse made a very good meal out of demands for specificity* from Games workshop which proved very difficult for GW to answer.  Even from an amateur eye I can see similar mileage for Catalyst and Harebrained Schemes if this goes to court, and Harmony Golds case looks a lot weaker than Games Workshop's, who lost many of their points in the court settlement by the way.



* Please look this up for yourselves.

[worktroll]

CGL has not been particularly interested in crowdfunding before, for a variety of reasons. They get to make their own calls. They also have access to information we don't.

Besides, it's their asses on the line, not mine or yours. I expect they're exquisitely aware of the extent to which they're liable for anything in the case of a negative outcome.

[guardiandashi]

my question is I wonder if we will hear anything tomorrow, or if HG has filed more stuff requesting more delays so that they can rewrite history more?