Author Topic: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor  (Read 29368 times)

Crow

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #60 on: 07 November 2017, 06:50:26 »
Slightly disappointed that there was no Royal version.
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sadlerbw

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #61 on: 07 November 2017, 11:43:07 »
Slightly disappointed that there was no Royal version.

There was...and he even had a sister!  ;D ;D ;D

Although, really, the -9D pretty much is what you would have expected a Royal to be. You could always headcanon that the -9D actually IS the royal version and they found its plans in the Helm core.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #62 on: 07 November 2017, 17:21:11 »
I've always liked the Victor as a "hero's 'mech". it's big and tough enough to feel important without letting them just absorb all the fire like some lummox, maneuverable enough to have options available and has one heck of a right hook so long as the ammo isn't wasted on the small fry. makes it a great choice to let a growing unit "find".

also it's easy to remember the name of it, which probably helps given my tendency to forget details like names, health levels, overlapping fire lines....
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #63 on: 07 November 2017, 23:21:24 »
Which then raises the question of why the front line units didn't have enough mechs in the first place. These machines appeared from the beginning of the invasion, before any of the clans had suffered significant losses. If they were a post tukayyid thing, then sure, but they weren't. Either way, it creates the impression that somebody forgot to pack enough mechs.

The idea that they were refits produced in the homeworlds to bulk up second line numbers for the invasion, rather than being retrofitted from captured hardware during the invasion, makes more sense to my brain. And it seems to fit with the master unit list giving several of the machines to the home clans as well.

Because they were denied bringing in more than front line troops initially.
Remember, they Khan's had to petition to be allowed to bring in PGC's after they started taking losses & couldn't use FL troops for garrison.

The captured IS crap was isorla essentially.
So they gave it a quick weapon swap with what was on hand & put it back into action.
A quick fix to be used in the early waves (Twycross) before reinforcements could arrive from the homeworlds.

Hell, the Jags were so in need of mechs that they shipped something like 2 galaxies of salvage from DC OZ back to the homeworlds to be refitted & used back home for garrison.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #64 on: 08 November 2017, 00:02:06 »
Because they were denied bringing in more than front line troops initially.

Emphasis added. That actually works less because it raises the question of where they got pilots for these mechs if their second line troops weren't with the initial invasion.

The Jaguar example doesn't work for this case, because this was after the Jaguars had taken heavy losses at Luthien, Tukayyid, and Wayside.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #65 on: 08 November 2017, 01:20:20 »
Presumably they were taking sufficient losses that they were having to cannibalize some of their more broken omnis in order to keep others working.  The lower ranking and lower performing warriors who were missing mechs would then have been assigned the refitted IS machines.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #66 on: 08 November 2017, 01:45:39 »
Presumably they were taking sufficient losses that they were having to cannibalize some of their more broken omnis in order to keep others working.  The lower ranking and lower performing warriors who were missing mechs would then have been assigned the refitted IS machines.

Except that's not how they're described in the text. The defenders were an entire second line cluster which as near as I can tell had never seen action up to this point. (the Jade Falcon Eyrie cluster according to the Jade Falcon Sourcebook).

Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #67 on: 08 November 2017, 12:10:02 »
Oh.

Well, in that case, they were obviously sitting on a shelf in the pantry in one of the Falcon dropships until they were needed.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #68 on: 15 November 2017, 01:48:23 »
Its the Executioner Prime' s baby brother?


It's the Urbanmech's big mean brother. A Victor is just vicious in a city.
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Kidd

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #69 on: 15 November 2017, 01:57:33 »
It's the Urbanmech's big mean brother. A Victor is just vicious in a city.
Or an obese Hunchback.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #70 on: 15 November 2017, 05:41:14 »
Or an obese Hunchback.

Hey the victor has a lean figure!

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #71 on: 15 November 2017, 12:41:40 »
Or an obese Hunchback.

Victors are fast for their size, jump capable and armored well enough. If anything, the Victor is a Hunchback that hit the gym. 
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #72 on: 15 November 2017, 13:38:58 »
Victor hatched from a Urbanmech AC/20 variant...

Seriously i think the Victor could have evolved from much earlier Banshee or the Emperor. Including the backfill Mechs from the XTRO series and 3075.  The jump able Hammerhands could be distant cousin.
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Luciora

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #73 on: 15 November 2017, 17:16:33 »
Does the Lu Wei Bing even lift brah?

Victors are fast for their size, jump capable and armored well enough. If anything, the Victor is a Hunchback that hit the gym.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #74 on: 16 November 2017, 00:11:53 »
Does the Lu Wei Bing even lift brah?
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #75 on: 16 November 2017, 07:38:54 »


lol I really like that sculpt but might swap out the gun arm for one of the new highlanders

Luciora

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #76 on: 16 November 2017, 17:12:03 »
It's not like Liao has any problem showing off massive guns, look at the Koschei, Lao Hu, or Jinggau.

lol I really like that sculpt but might swap out the gun arm for one of the new highlanders

Kidd

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #77 on: 16 November 2017, 17:29:13 »
It's not like Liao has any problem showing off massive guns, look at the Koschei, Lao Hu, or Jinggau.
and Thunder.

Victors are fast for their size, jump capable and armored well enough. If anything, the Victor is a Hunchback that hit the gym. 
A negative comparison if any. A Hunchy is 30 tons lighter.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #78 on: 16 November 2017, 19:09:45 »
The Hunchback is a great mech but the Victor can still can do things you can't do in the Hunchie if that's your base line for AC/20 platforms.  Both the Victor and Zues has the same problem 1.) they are ether competing with lighter mechs with the same movement profile or 2.) competing with THE 80 Ton monster, the Awesome! Many many other assaults fall short of the Awesome but even that mech has limitations as well (every time a mech gets in minimum rang of those PPCs)

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mbear

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #79 on: 17 November 2017, 09:57:44 »
You know seeing a Clan Victor refitted for dueling with twin improved AC/20s (or whatever they're called) could be fun. I'll have to experiment with that.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #80 on: 17 November 2017, 20:07:42 »
You know seeing a Clan Victor refitted for dueling with twin improved AC/20s (or whatever they're called) could be fun. I'll have to experiment with that.

Where would you put the second?

AlphaMirage

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #81 on: 17 November 2017, 22:30:40 »
Where would you put the second?

I'd actually put it in the other arm for symmetry purposes (but I love symmetrical mechs)

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #82 on: 18 November 2017, 05:41:29 »
A negative comparison if any. A Hunchy is 30 tons lighter.
You do know that muscle mass has weight, right? That's still a positive comparison.

The Hunchback's like a skinny-with-a-gut guy, and the Victor's like a guy who goes the gym and scarfs down protein like it's going out of style. Sure, the Hunchback has less mass and weighs less, but it's not strong. (For the sake of the argument. Hunchbacks are undoubtedly powerful, but the Victor is better at the same job by virtue of mass and armament.)

Just because you weigh more doesn't mean you are fat.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #83 on: 20 November 2017, 10:52:34 »
Where would you put the second?
I was thinking of the old equipment from TRO:3050 1st printing, which was basically standard Inner Sphere equipment but cut in half tonnage and critical spaces wise. Dropping in two of those AC/20s would be cake.

The improved ones from Interstellar Operations prevent that now. So never mind. ;)
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #84 on: 20 November 2017, 11:39:30 »
You do know that muscle mass has weight, right? That's still a positive comparison.

The Hunchback's like a skinny-with-a-gut guy, and the Victor's like a guy who goes the gym and scarfs down protein like it's going out of style. Sure, the Hunchback has less mass and weighs less, but it's not strong. (For the sake of the argument. Hunchbacks are undoubtedly powerful, but the Victor is better at the same job by virtue of mass and armament.)
Yes, and I know muscle mass is denser than fat.

A Victor's extra 30 tons basically buys jump jets, an SRM-4 rack, a smidgeon of armour and a couple extra heat sinks over a Hunchback. Frankly those jumpers are its only real saving grace, and that really highlights the inefficiency of the VTR-9B Victor.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #85 on: 20 November 2017, 12:37:29 »
Yes, you don't like the Victor. Your not the only one, moving on.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #86 on: 20 November 2017, 15:17:03 »
Yes, and I know muscle mass is denser than fat.

A Victor's extra 30 tons basically buys jump jets, an SRM-4 rack, a smidgeon of armour and a couple extra heat sinks over a Hunchback. Frankly those jumpers are its only real saving grace, and that really highlights the inefficiency of the VTR-9B Victor.

And the Cyclops? The 3025 was a Hunchback with an extra LRM10 and a lot more inner structure. Under BV1 they even had almost the same cost. The "fast" assault mechs were far from optimal. And the Victor is one shinny example of that.... and the most mobile AC20 of 3025.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #87 on: 20 November 2017, 19:56:33 »
A Victor's extra 30 tons basically buys jump jets, an SRM-4 rack, a smidgeon of armour and a couple extra heat sinks over a Hunchback. Frankly those jumpers are its only real saving grace, and that really highlights the inefficiency of the VTR-9B Victor.
I feel like you are severely underestimating the other benefits. 'Just jumping' is valuable, yes, but having a critseeker, extra melee damage, better heat dissipation, and having extra armor doesn't hurt, even if there's more efficient assault mechs out there.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #88 on: 20 November 2017, 23:51:43 »
A Victor's extra 30 tons basically buys jump jets, an SRM-4 rack, a smidgeon of armour and a couple extra heat sinks over a Hunchback. Frankly those jumpers are its only real saving grace, and that really highlights the inefficiency of the VTR-9B Victor.

More like the inefficiencies of scaling going from a 50 ton 4/6 (31.5 tons for armor + payload) to a 80 ton 4/6 (42.5 tons for the same).
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #89 on: 21 November 2017, 00:46:12 »
I feel like you are severely underestimating the other benefits. 'Just jumping' is valuable, yes, but having a critseeker, extra melee damage, better heat dissipation, and having extra armor doesn't hurt, even if there's more efficient assault mechs out there.
And 1 ton more of AC/20 ammo. That makes a difference when loading alternate ammo.

Of course I won't deny that having more stuff makes it better. The question is, is it better enough? I was just hoping for more reasoned analysis along that line, rather than "you hate Victors", because of course I do, I wrote a long article about how much I hate it  ::)

 

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