Author Topic: Argentinian sub missing  (Read 12707 times)

marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #30 on: 22 November 2017, 11:01:14 »
I was watching a live stream by this chap called Jive Turkey and hes an ex US SSN sonar man.  Folks on the stream are often veterans and one Brazilian sub guy said that his subs when they go out on sea trials don't take many oxygen candels with them, and assumes the ARN does the same.  Apparently the Sub was cut in half to have work done on her batteries before being put back together and then sailing.
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Wrangler

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #31 on: 22 November 2017, 19:22:15 »
I was watching a live stream by this chap called Jive Turkey and hes an ex US SSN sonar man.  Folks on the stream are often veterans and one Brazilian sub guy said that his subs when they go out on sea trials don't take many oxygen candels with them, and assumes the ARN does the same.  Apparently the Sub was cut in half to have work done on her batteries before being put back together and then sailing.
OMG
Hope that's not what it sounds like. it could have happened.
« Last Edit: 23 November 2017, 08:07:39 by Wrangler »
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #32 on: 22 November 2017, 19:22:57 »
There were reports she was having trouble with her batteries.  USS Cochino and USS Bonefish both suffered battery explosions and fires aboard, Cochino was lost (with only one fatality) while Bonefish was towed back in with 18 dead.  Clinically, I'm betting it was something like this - though I do wonder; you'd think an implosion would be something SOSUS could pick up.  Noone's mentioned such a thing, at least not publicly, so I wonder if the sub never crossed crush depth.
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Wrangler

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #33 on: 22 November 2017, 19:29:09 »
Won't depend on what's monitoring of the ocean they normally be doing.

Sure they got ears in the water since the sub's reported missing.  However, i was under the impression that most of the area won't have been setup with such devices.   It's sort a cold war thing, how the approaches to the Atlantic and Pacific possible were laid out on the ocean floor with cables to listen for inbound Soviet subs.

There won't be anything like that off the coast of Argentina i would think.  They only have 3 submarines, no real rivals to worry about with exception of smugglers maybe issues with the Brazilians.
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Kidd

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #34 on: 22 November 2017, 23:44:39 »
Russia joins the search. Hints of the blame game starting up as survival hopes fade.

Argentina is a poor country, its unlikely to have those kind of sonar sensors... and even if they did, they might not reveal its existence.

marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #35 on: 23 November 2017, 02:27:42 »
In all honesty, we're over the 1 week mark, and at this point it has become a recovery operation rather than a rescue :(
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DaveMac

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #36 on: 23 November 2017, 04:11:58 »
In all honesty, we're over the 1 week mark, and at this point it has become a recovery operation rather than a rescue :(

Sadly I agree with you
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marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #37 on: 23 November 2017, 06:34:17 »
Yeah apparently the work on her batteries was done by a local firm and they basically cut the ship in half to get at the battery compartment before putting her back together again with new batteries.  Battery changes on SS's are slow complicated, expensive, dirty tasks and not obviously something done lightly. And they rarely involve halving or cutting off a quarter of a sub to get at the battery compartment.
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DaveMac

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #38 on: 23 November 2017, 10:07:26 »
Explosion detected near site of missing Argentinian submarine, navy confirms

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/23/explosion-detected-near-site-of-missing-argentinian-submarine-navy-confirms

Just hope it was quick
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Sharpnel

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #39 on: 23 November 2017, 10:25:36 »
Rest in peace, brave submariners.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #40 on: 23 November 2017, 12:21:16 »
Has it been confirmed the explosion was the submarine?
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #41 on: 23 November 2017, 13:23:31 »
No, but it matches the sub's last known coordinates and there aren't a lot of plausible alternatives for what could have caused it.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #42 on: 23 November 2017, 14:28:36 »
Has it been confirmed the explosion was the submarine?

Not confirmed yet, but almost. It was a shame. And sadly i am almost sure it was the product of the last goverment institucionalized corruption. :'(
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #43 on: 23 November 2017, 15:01:00 »
That's what I was looking for, hydrophone networks picking up anything.  The sharp violent 'explosion' I'm betting is the sub passing crush depth and then finally imploding; the incredible amount of pressure at those depths was enough to (in USS Scorpion's case) rip the sub literally in half and shove the engine room fifty feet forward into the hull behind the torpedo room.  Very likely the same happened here, after some sort of catastrophic electrical casualty to the boat followed by a loss of power and a trip straight down.

Thank god the end came quick, is all I'm going to say.

What I said before about the SOSUS hydrophones (and NOAA's), those things are serious business.  When Thresher went down, their recordings were good enough to hear the sound of water hitting the reactor core of the sub despite it being half an ocean away.  That they didn't hear the sound let them rule out a failure there, so the listening capabilities of the USN (and others) are terrifying.  Don't fart in the ocean, they'll know you did it.
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marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #44 on: 23 November 2017, 23:15:14 »
This might prove interesting, sad, but interesting.  Jive Turkey is an ex USN sonar man and served aboard Los Angeles and Ohio class boats, and has a lot of experience with sonar patterns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc39NVy1v20
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Wrangler

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #45 on: 24 November 2017, 10:27:51 »
It's really looking like they may have gone down.

A international nuclear test-ban monitoring organization,who usually monitors through their network detected the explosion near where the ARA San Juan was last reported from.  I wonder if Argentina doesn't want to admit she lost.  I'd like keep trying, but i don't know anymore.  :(
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Kidd

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #46 on: 24 November 2017, 11:38:18 »
The Argentinian navy has already informed the families the crew are considered to be lost at sea.

Naturally the families are distraught and blaming the govt, not that I blame them, and the newspapers will make hay of the whole matter, and them I do blame...

marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #47 on: 24 November 2017, 12:09:24 »
The problem is that the Argentinian navy has very little money to maintain ships/subs.  And really, sending out out even after a 'refit' is iffy.
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #48 on: 24 November 2017, 16:05:21 »
So very sad, to lose a ship with no real reason why.
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marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #49 on: 25 November 2017, 00:14:02 »
So very sad, to lose a ship with no real reason why.

I'd not be surprised if it wasn't a battery fire/explosion.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #50 on: 25 November 2017, 12:56:42 »
I'd not be surprised if it wasn't a battery fire/explosion.

That is the current theory.
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #52 on: 28 November 2017, 04:32:05 »
The article says they would continue submerged when they were ordered home. Why would they do that? Why not return home on the surface?
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marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #53 on: 28 November 2017, 05:06:56 »
The article says they would continue submerged when they were ordered home. Why would they do that? Why not return home on the surface?

Modern subs are terrible on the surface, and the sea conditions in that part of the world at this time of year would be damn near suicidal for the sub to run on the surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VreYpuvqXpE

A sub on the surface in that would capsize or roll hard enough to cause some severe issues with stuff inside, torpedoes rolling about, fuel sloshing and causing her to roll, all terribly bad stuff.  It was safer to keep her under the water  because surfacing WOULD have killed them, the battery problem, MAY have, but in this case it did.
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #54 on: 28 November 2017, 12:31:50 »
Must been alot water leaking through the periscope... Wow, what terrible thing to happen. It's too bad they didn't surface when first signs trouble with first battery happened.

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marauder648

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #55 on: 28 November 2017, 13:49:30 »
They basically couldn't surface, those waves would have capsized the sub.Surfacing was suicide :(
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #56 on: 28 November 2017, 14:03:55 »
Must been alot water leaking through the periscope...
The snorkel isn't the periscope.  It's an air intake for the diesel engines so that you can run them while submerged, and use the diesels to recharge your batteries.  Clearly the wave action was pretty serious to flood the thing, which killed said diesels and any chances she had.

I wonder if the snorkel's floatation system failed, putting it into the sea directly and letting pressure do the rest.  Certainly would explain why it flooded so badly it took the main batts with it.
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #57 on: 30 November 2017, 07:28:56 »
The snorkel isn't the periscope.  It's an air intake for the diesel engines so that you can run them while submerged, and use the diesels to recharge your batteries.  Clearly the wave action was pretty serious to flood the thing, which killed said diesels and any chances she had.

I wonder if the snorkel's floatation system failed, putting it into the sea directly and letting pressure do the rest.  Certainly would explain why it flooded so badly it took the main batts with it.

Commissioned in 1985, wouldn't have been a float for the check valve it would have been a simple flapper. Even if they didn't flood that way, they would have choked their engines without air. :-(

Rest in peace sailors, your watch has drawn to an untimely close.

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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #58 on: 30 November 2017, 08:15:42 »
Commissioned in 1985, wouldn't have been a float for the check valve it would have been a simple flapper. Even if they didn't flood that way, they would have choked their engines without air. :-(

Rest in peace sailors, your watch has drawn to an untimely close.
Worse than you think. If the air intake was incapacitated without an auto shutoff for the diesel engines, it would consume all air INSIDE the sub, potentially killing the crew.
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Re: Argentinian sub missing
« Reply #59 on: 30 November 2017, 08:23:58 »
There were reports she was having trouble with her batteries.  USS Cochino and USS Bonefish both suffered battery explosions and fires aboard, Cochino was lost (with only one fatality) while Bonefish was towed back in with 18 dead.  Clinically, I'm betting it was something like this - though I do wonder; you'd think an implosion would be something SOSUS could pick up.  Noone's mentioned such a thing, at least not publicly, so I wonder if the sub never crossed crush depth.
Seems you were right on the money with this one.

Has anything been said about search and recovery of the presumed wreck?

 

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