Author Topic: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.  (Read 12870 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #30 on: 20 March 2017, 11:13:35 »
So it's a Spider with heavy lasers? Sign me up! I'll take two of them.

Basically, yeah. Did you like the Venom with four powerful short-ranged energy weapons pointed at someone's keester? Then you'll love the Clan version, trading accuracy for raw power. When you're a 240-meter-jumping can opener, every opponent's ass looks like a can of tinned meat.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #31 on: 20 March 2017, 11:57:07 »
Now I'm trying to find a copy to double-check, but I'm pretty sure a previous revision of TRO3050 (not the Upgrade version, but the original or the revised) in the intro to the Clan section stated that the Omni variants were tagged Prime, A, B, C, etc. based on the frequency they were seen by the IS forces during the Clan Invasion. Remember, the TRO series was initially written in-universe by Comstar, so they wouldn't necessarily have all the background info on Clan stuff and what was the favorite configuration in Clan-space. My copy to double-check is at home, not where I thought I could access it easily, I'll have to try tonight or tomorrow. So things like the Gargoyle Prime is the Prime not because the Clans found it the most useful in inter-Clan fighting, but because of how often it was seen during the Clan Invasion.


Whether the above is true, or something my memory made up, we have to consider the different ways these variants could be used, not just in a straight duel, etc. While some variants will work stellar as a duelist, the Viper is a fast, medium-weight, armed recon 'Mech.

The Prime is a generalist scout, with MPLs to handle fast movers, MGs for infantry, and SRMs for fun. The AMS helps provide cover to escape if it encounters something it'd rather leave to a starmate.

The A is an obvious over-powered duelist, able to overheat to unleash a lot of damage and then jump away.

The B is an obvious long range duelist. The SPLs and Flamer allow for some crit-seeking if absolutely necessary, but more importantly, they allow it to start fires for extra cover and slaughter any enemy infantry it stumbles across.

The C is one I believe was developed specifically for the Clan Invasion. Anticipating facing swarms of infantry and tanks, this variant works great as a scout to flush hidden units and quickly destroy those infantry units and vehicles.

The D I'm unsure about. It looks like someone took the A and decided they wanted a cooler running version that could plink at long range.

The E is the typical ATM configuration for a light/medium 'Mech, an ATM 3/6 and 2-3 tons of ammo, plus some secondary weapons. Since the weapon was new I can forgive its shortcomings, but I would have preferred dropping a ton or two of ammo and maybe an ERSL to upgrade to an ATM9. Even if it meant only having a single ton of ammo, I would have been happy with that for the shear punch of 9 HE missiles.

While the MG Arrays of the F will work for infantry, on a 'Mech like this, those are designed for critting an enemy to death. While the enemy still has most of its armor, fire the MGs individually to crit-seek. Once the armor is open in a key area (engine, ammo, Gauss, etc.) switch to linked mode for the chance to land all 4 MGs per array in the same location. This gives you a better chance to crit that key component and bring down the enemy faster.

The G is a more modern version of the C, that allows it to fight at longer ranges. I wish it could have kept the full-size Active Probe to take advantage of this range, but alas. If you compare the C and G, both have a flame-related threat for infantry, BA, and 'Mechs. Both have additional anti-infantry guns (MGs, vs APGauss), both have an Active Probe, and both have some kind of Medium Laser backup for bigger targets.

The H is similar to the A, but opts for SPLs instead of SRMs for crit-seeking. It can jump and fire the HMLs without any heat gain until a target is nice and opened up, then hit the big red fire button before jumping away to cool off.

The I config is geared more towards ground-bound fighting in my mind. By running you can fire all three HMLs most of the time, dropping one to cool off or jump away. Similar to my ideal version of the E, this one only mounts a single ton of ATM ammo. In this case I would go for either standard or ER ammo, to give it the ability to hit a target at longer ranges.

The Z is a Society version of the I, swapping for improved versions of the weapons. However, in this case I might have preferred dropping the LAMS and Light Active Probe for more iATM ammo simply for the more versatile extra ammo types.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #32 on: 20 March 2017, 14:31:33 »
Basically, yeah. Did you like the Venom with four powerful short-ranged energy weapons pointed at someone's keester? Then you'll love the Clan version, trading accuracy for raw power. When you're a 240-meter-jumping can opener, every opponent's ass looks like a can of tinned meat.

Key problem is that it takes an above average pilot to pull that off with heavy lasers, while any fool can do it with pulses. The Venom is a great mech (a IIC would be a nightmare) and I quite like the Prime, but if rather see the H as an Ice Ferret or Phantom, rather than make my fight my jump jet addiction in a Dragonfly (I can quit any time I want...). Its still a fine mech and the H I wish those other two mechs had, but I don't favor it over the Prime or D or even the A.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #33 on: 20 March 2017, 15:06:08 »
Now I'm trying to find a copy to double-check, but I'm pretty sure a previous revision of TRO3050 (not the Upgrade version, but the original or the revised) in the intro to the Clan section stated that the Omni variants were tagged Prime, A, B, C, etc. based on the frequency they were seen by the IS forces during the Clan Invasion.

FWIW, my 1990 edition of TRO:3050 doesn't have that anywhere.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #34 on: 20 March 2017, 17:13:05 »
I'm a pretty big Viper fan. I tend to enjoy jumpy speed-demons in general, but this guy has a number of imperfect-but-fun configs that I enjoy. I do think it's at it's best as a battle taxi. A Nova of Vipers and Dashers covered in Elementals is how I've always envisioned the Ghost Bears got things done in a Recon or possibly Striker formation. Several of the variants concentrate weapons in the arms, which can be troublesome on some mechs, but makes all kinds of sense if you plan to strap on battle armored infantry and run them around the map. Even without Elementals hanging on, I still like the extreme mobility with just enough protection to survive a couple lucky hits and still hang in the fight. As it is the only one with pulse lasers, I actually like the prime as it helps offset the mods from jumping in to backstab, but I really don't mind playing most of the variants. Massed MG's and Heavy Lasers aren't my favorites, but with 8/12/8 to work with, I can usually still get something useful done.

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #35 on: 20 March 2017, 20:48:39 »

Over two decades ago, I was taught a lesson about mobility in my first tournament by an opponent running some Viper Bs.  Picked me apart at range while I could barely score a hit.  Painfully educational but good times.

The Viper and Grendel always needed a stock canon pulse large laser configuration.  The newer ER pulse large laser would also work well.  TC for maximum munch, but that's asking too much.

FWIW...
« Last Edit: 20 March 2017, 20:55:17 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #36 on: 21 March 2017, 00:29:49 »
This was actually my ride, beautiful mech (the A variant mostly) easily dictates range makes IS player's with regular pilots cry as you give them nothing but 12+'s to hit while only needing 8s.

Unfortunately I gave an Atlas 10s and it missed with everything BUT the AC/20, very sad bear

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #37 on: 21 March 2017, 02:14:04 »
Over two decades ago, I was taught a lesson about mobility in my first tournament by an opponent running some Viper Bs.  Picked me apart at range while I could barely score a hit.  Painfully educational but good times.

The Viper and Grendel always needed a stock canon pulse large laser configuration.  The newer ER pulse large laser would also work well.  TC for maximum munch, but that's asking too much.

FWIW...

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #38 on: 22 March 2017, 23:07:33 »
I thought the Viper was the chassis the Clans were supposed to use when inspired by the TR1 Wraith . . .
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #39 on: 23 March 2017, 01:39:27 »
Did the Wraith fall into a wormhole or something?
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #40 on: 23 March 2017, 01:42:47 »
I was joking about the Clans doing it at 8/12/8 . . . but it cannot fit that 2nd MPL on anyway.

I have not used the H, but it sounds like something to try.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #41 on: 03 April 2017, 23:43:25 »
I just noticed that the Dragonfly has the Improved Targeting (Long) quirk in the BattleMech Manual, which makes the B significantly more dangerous.


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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #42 on: 04 April 2017, 13:07:18 »
I thought the Viper was the chassis the Clans were supposed to use when inspired by the TR1 Wraith . . .
The Osiris (35 ton light) is based on the Dragonfly but has half the jump capability but similar firepower (for a Spheroid 'Mech anyway...).

The Wraith isn't really based on anything, just made by a company that had never before done any military products.

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #43 on: 04 April 2017, 13:21:15 »
It was a joke, I know which was published first . . .

Actually one of the variants of the Osiris jumps just as far IIRC.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #44 on: 04 April 2017, 13:25:23 »
Yes, and it's an all-laser version, to boot.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #45 on: 04 April 2017, 13:29:23 »
The Osiris is one of those 'Mechs whose variants i ignore. They lose all the feel the original has. Maybe they're more effective but that's never been a factor for me.

Odd that the Osiris isn't a 40-tonner, the Dragonfly is one of the Clan 'Mechs that can be almost copied with Spheroid tech without losing but some damage and range.

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #46 on: 04 April 2017, 14:23:44 »
Well you really cannot make such definitive statements then . . . IIRC the variant also came out in the same book the 'original' did.  Considering the SRMs were a secondary weapon to the lasers I am not sure how it loses the feel.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #47 on: 04 April 2017, 14:40:58 »
Between the increased jump capability and armor and removing ammo-based weapons, it loses part of its looks (empty left arm) and becomes just plain good.
Meh.

Would've preferred removing an ERML and MPL for a LRM-5 in place of the SRMs, to keep that mixed armament and looks.

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #48 on: 04 April 2017, 16:53:05 »
Odd that the Osiris isn't a 40-tonner, the Dragonfly is one of the Clan 'Mechs that can be almost copied with Spheroid tech without losing but some damage and range.

At the same time, I think you can look at a mech like the Dragonfly and what it pulls off with its 8.5 tons of pod space, and be reminded of how far the Inner Sphere has to go.  The variants with two ER MLs give up but two points of damage to twin large laser mechs of the Inner Sphere, the A has 50% more power than a comparable IS mech, the MPLs on the Prime outrange IS LPLs.

Now, granted, that's got nothing to do with the Viper itself; the same can be said on a larger scale of a Stormcrow or Dire Wolf.  But, I do think the Viper has several variants that make some good choices (for example, none mount ACs, mostly because only the 2 would fit) that highlight how Clan tech allows you to squeeze a lot of power into a mech that can really haul ass.  Most variants outgun the original Grasshopper which I reviewed, and the A at similar levels to the very best 6K (granted, the Viper runs scorching hot while the Grasshopper is cool as an ice bucket, but the Viper is one of the few mechs that can reliably break contact to cool down when it wants).
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #49 on: 05 April 2017, 19:18:33 »
Hmm, what about PACs?
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #50 on: 06 April 2017, 09:15:43 »
Hmm, what about PACs?

They were not really an option when many of the variants were created, especially the time period when most of the 'what were they thinking?' autocannon-mounting variants of the clan Omni's were made. So, at the point when most of the oddball AC variants were created, they just didn't exist.

Now, you could mount two PAC/2's, but still only enough weight for one PAC/4 or PAC/8. Of course, instead of a PAC/2, you could mount a Clan LRM15, which has almost the exact same ranges. You could mount the PAC/4, or you could take that LRM15 and add Artemis to it. With the PAC/8 and one ton of ammo, you could take a clan ERPPC and be a half ton ahead. Or, if you don't want energy, you could get three SRM6's and two tons of ammo. So, you COULD mount PAC's, but it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Stuff like AP Gauss are still probably the most sensible option for ballistics on the Dragonfly. I'm not sure what a PAC would let you do that a pile of missiles and some backup medium lasers wouldn't more effectively.

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #51 on: 06 April 2017, 11:07:24 »
PACs make use of special ammo just like AC/LAC IIRC.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #52 on: 07 April 2017, 12:54:12 »
PACs make use of special ammo just like AC/LAC IIRC.

The problem is you then need to spend more of your limited tonnage on special ammo which often comes with smaller warloads than a normal ton meaning yet more tonnage goes on ammo.  Basically a PAC is wasted on a Dragonfly.
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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #53 on: 07 April 2017, 15:25:15 »
Maybe I've missed something, but it sounds like PACs are just awful. Is there any application where they're good?

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Re: Mech of the Week - Dragonfly.
« Reply #54 on: 07 April 2017, 15:40:15 »
Maybe I've missed something, but it sounds like PACs are just awful. Is there any application where they're good?

They're a way to give a small unit or large protomech extra anti-air capability through the use of flak shells.

They also have some potential as infantry field guns.

But fundamentally, they're clan tech light autocannons, with all the weaknesses that implies.
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