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BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 22:57:07

Title: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 22:57:07
Its made for Exiles and Refugees.

Any chance, 60 years later we may have some blood spirit survivors? Or other fallen clans?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: SteveRestless on 06 June 2013, 23:34:02
While I like the idea, I think its a bit distant, temporally speaking. Its also not terribly near to the sites of any of the dead clans' demise. I suppose, if there were some way of getting ahold of the genetic legacies of those fallen clans, they could theoretically be revived within the protectorate, but to what end? I would think most clans would see those names as weaker, having failed to prevent their extinction.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 07 June 2013, 07:03:41
It's where the Horses are moving to to make room for the renewed HW Clan invasion.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: cold1 on 07 June 2013, 08:08:46
It's where the Horses are moving to to make room for the renewed HW Clan invasion.

In exchange for this information we want the 5th back!!!

Seriously we should get a better look at it in the next mini TRO
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 08:12:39
Any chance, 60 years later we may have some blood spirit survivors? Or other fallen clans?

Why should someone let the dark caste in?

It's where the Horses are moving to to make room for the renewed HW Clan invasion.

And why should any sane HW clanner want to invade again, seeing how it all ends in corrupted/poisoned/insane clans?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: cold1 on 07 June 2013, 10:46:29
Why should someone let the dark caste in?

And why should any sane HW clanner want to invade again, seeing how it all ends in corrupted/poisoned/insane clans?

The dark caste is pretty much gone

The homeworlds invading would be VERY BAD.  Full scale warfare would be the order of the day. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 June 2013, 10:51:44
Its made for Exiles and Refugees.

Any chance, 60 years later we may have some blood spirit survivors? Or other fallen clans?

 There is always a chance.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 07 June 2013, 10:59:20
Kisho's Nova Cat survivors are more likely.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 12:01:48
The dark caste is pretty much gone

And what, pray tell, is a clanless clanner if not Dark Caste?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 June 2013, 12:58:13
And what, pray tell, is a clanless clanner if not Dark Caste?

Yeah, really.  The Dark Caste won't cease to exist unless clan society ceases to exist.

I am curious to read more about the Clan Protectorate, however.  Does it predate Grey Monday?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Stormcrow on 07 June 2013, 13:05:17
Yeah, really.  The Dark Caste won't cease to exist unless clan society ceases to exist.

I am curious to read more about the Clan Protectorate, however.  Does it predate Grey Monday?
No, it comes to being in the late 3130s/early 3140s
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 07 June 2013, 13:06:18
And what, pray tell, is a clanless clanner if not Dark Caste?

Is this a riddle disguised as a quiz?  Because, "All your base belongs to us."

Even the price gouging Clan Shark Fox will have trouble dealing with the Dead Cat Clan if they start with that "you can't afford us" attitude.

As for "clanless clanner" ... such a thing does not exist.  As Abtahka, Isorla. or Hegira, Clan Nova Cat and/or the surviving Spirit Cats will claim all the material and personel abandoned by the other Clans. 

Is it worth a Trial of Refusal to stop us?

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 13:07:43
Yeah, really.  The Dark Caste won't cease to exist unless clan society ceases to exist.

I am curious to read more about the Clan Protectorate, however.  Does it predate Grey Monday?

No, it was created after Fortress Republic was initiated (27 Jul. 38).

@GhostCat:

That is horsepoopery. Outcasts, dropouts and survivors of genocideTrials of Annihilation have always been and will always be. That´s the unmentioned side of the way of the clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 07 June 2013, 16:56:06
So long as Clan Spirit Cat and Sea Fox do not overreach and work to build themselves up in the Clan Protectorate, they will thrive.  I have wanting to make a Clan Protectorate thread for some time, but since we have so little information on them outside of the novels, much of what would be posted in here would be pure speculation.

That said, I believe the Spirit Cats will survive and do well on Marik and the other planets they protect.  They are in a far better position, even if they are numerically inferior, than Clan Nova Cat was in the Irece Prefecture.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 June 2013, 17:01:25
What was the rationale behind the Clan Protectorate being centered on Marik?  I'm sure there's a story to it, but I don't know what it is.  I assume the extinction of the Marik Commonwealth and the inception of the Protectorate must go hand in hand?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 07 June 2013, 17:33:08
What was the rationale behind the Clan Protectorate being centered on Marik?  I'm sure there's a story to it, but I don't know what it is.  I assume the extinction of the Marik Commonwealth and the inception of the Protectorate must go hand in hand?

Clan Spirit Cat conquered Mark in 3135 while looking for sanctuary for their people.  Clan Sea Fox assisted Clan Spirit Cat by providing transport and additional ground forces in the final battle.  Julietta of Marik, the eldest daughter of Captain-General Jessica Marik, got on-planet right before the last big battle of Marik was going on, and left an impression on the Spirit Cat leadership.  After the assassination attempt on her life, the Spirit Cats loaned some of their doctors to Jessica to help heal her daughter, and then brought her back with them to Marik to monitor her recovery.  Julietta eventually started to identify more the Spirit Cats and then helped them take advantage of Oriente being distracted during the 3138 war with Andurien to declare their own statelet.  Then when the Free Worlds League was reborn, it joined as an equal member-state.

Basically, Julietta realized her mother was going with Nikol (Julietta's younger sister) as her heir and after her life-and-death experience and recovery, Julietta became much more determined, and stuck it to her mother by getting Clan Spirit Cat to expand its influence, rather than be consumed by the Oriente Protectorate.  Basically a "you-scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours".

TLDR: The reason it's centered on Marik is that is where the Spirit Cats and Sea Fox started from.  Rikkard Nova Cat believed Marik would be the sanctuary he was seeking, and then went from there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 07 June 2013, 17:39:27
What was the rationale behind the Clan Protectorate being centered on Marik?  I'm sure there's a story to it, but I don't know what it is.  I assume the extinction of the Marik Commonwealth and the inception of the Protectorate must go hand in hand?

Do you mean the in-universe reason or the real-world reason? Don't think anyone who frequents the boards can answer the latter but the former is because Rikkard Nova Cat had a vision of a bird riding a tornado across a hot and arid landscape.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 17:58:36
Do you mean the in-universe reason or the real-world reason? Don't think anyone who frequents the boards can answer the latter but the former is because Rikkard Nova Cat had a vision of a bird riding a tornado across a hot and arid landscape.

A short detour: Someone at FASA must have had a crush on native americans and shamanism. It´s been rife in Shadowrun (Where the hell did they all come from) and there´s a deep bond with it in the Cats.
I mean, finding a reservation (the irony!) after grandfather peyote a Vision Quest is certainly... weird?
Anyone got some background infos on what went on with FASA at that time?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 June 2013, 18:03:17
A short detour: Someone at FASA must have had a crush on native americans and shamanism. It´s been rife in Shadowrun (Where the hell did they all come from) and there´s a deep bond with it in the Cats.

Crimson Skies too. America Balkanizes and the native americans get a state.

Quote
I mean, finding a reservation (the irony!) after grandfather peyote a Vision Quest is certainly... weird?
Anyone got some background infos on what went on with FASA at that time?

Yeah apparently the republic has the good stuff. That isn't fasa though, the Republic Nova Cats twist towards Indian Shamanism happened under wizkids I believe.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 18:08:27
Crimson Skies too. America Balkanizes and the native americans get a state.

Oh, I skipped on CS back then due to being overcomited to other games. So the pattern repeated there?

Yeah apparently the republic has the good stuff. That isn't fasa though, the Republic Nova Cats twist towards Indian Shamanism happened under wizkids I believe.

Sorry, I didn´t mean this particular story arc but the Cats and their visions themselves, which lead back to FASA. Also, the rammifications of those vision where more or less first formalized in that time, too, leading to such things as wholesale defection to the Dracs, later hardline support of the RotS, splitting the clan into Spirit and Nova, then the reservations.
So someone must have had a crush-on with native american culture and mysticism.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 07 June 2013, 18:19:17
As for "clanless clanner" ... such a thing does not exist.  As Abtahka, Isorla. or Hegira, Clan Nova Cat and/or the surviving Spirit Cats will claim all the material and personel abandoned by the other Clans. 

Not necessarily.  During the Wars of Reaving, there are several instances of Clans looting enclaves of materials before abandoning any survivors to live or die on their own whether because they don't trust them, they are not worth the cost of relocating them to another enclave, they don't have the strength to defend their acquisition, etc.  With the heavy fighting going on, few if any Clans had the resources to save an abandoned settlement/enclave be it their own or somebody else's.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 18:35:47
Not necessarily.  During the Wars of Reaving, there are several instances of Clans looting enclaves of materials before abandoning any survivors to live or die on their own whether because they don't trust them, they are not worth the cost of relocating them to another enclave, they don't have the strength to defend their acquisition, etc.  With the heavy fighting going on, few if any Clans had the resources to save an abandoned settlement/enclave be it their own or somebody else's.

I think mentioning the Wars of Reaving is besides the point. It´s like mentioning the Jihad to prove something concerning the IS.
Sticking to Clan basics as they´d been for some centuries, those outside clanner culture/a clan are dark caste. That´s it.

So "survivors" of Trials of Absorbtion or Annihilation are, by default, Dark Caste, and that´s it. Considering the Clan bias towards those guys, why should they let them in a dedicated Clan Protectorate?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 07 June 2013, 19:03:07
Yeah apparently the republic has the good stuff. That isn't fasa though, the Republic Nova Cats twist towards Indian Shamanism happened under wizkids I believe.
Huh? No, the Nova Cats were heavy into mystic trappings since Invading Clans. Dancing around fires, atonal music and chanting, prophecy and vision...all that fun stuff. About the only thing Native American influenced with them were some of the outfits in the Republican Nova Cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 07 June 2013, 19:38:16
Huh? No, the Nova Cats were heavy into mystic trappings since Invading Clans. Dancing around fires, atonal music and chanting, prophecy and vision...all that fun stuff. About the only thing Native American influenced with them were some of the outfits in the Republican Nova Cats.

Yup. The Cats' mysticism is much more new age-y, with doses of Hellenic style mystery cultism & an interesting take on "generic" shamanism thrown in the mix. The 'Yotes are much closer to some Native American traditions in their beliefs, albeit in a very generalized sort of way.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Longstrider on 07 June 2013, 20:34:46
Hmm. Yeah, I'm not sure if Cat mysticism (or the Coyote's version) is any more related to someone at FASA having an interest in our movie-version of Native culture than anything else. I mean, BT is rife with these sorts of things, whether it's Arthurian knights, or space samurai, or whatever else.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fear Factory on 08 June 2013, 19:28:03
Why not Clan Burrock?  They survived "whack a Burrock" 3 times.  Ok...  this time they suffered orbital bombardment... but still.   :D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 09 June 2013, 04:22:06
So "unclaimed survivors" of Trials of Absorption or Annihilation are, by default, Dark Caste, and that´s it.

Minor correction.  O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Wolflord on 09 June 2013, 04:27:36
Minor correction.  O0

But an essential one  O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: St.George on 09 June 2013, 04:35:59
I'd thought the "Cats" more like the oracles of Dehlfied(ancient Greece,sry for the poor spelling) :))
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Wolflord on 09 June 2013, 05:27:51
Don't know much about the oracles other than they were at Delphi. But I always got the North American vibe from the Nova Cats rightly or wrongly because of a scene/image of dancing round a bonfire and looking for images in the flames from long ago. Maybe their night was dark and full of terrors Dragons.

Even since the FASA days I've felt there were too many similarities between some of the clans and that either we could have started with fewer or that there could have been more absorptions to give a more manageable number when they rejoined the main story in 3049.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: St.George on 09 June 2013, 06:12:00
I'm sure the early clans had alot incommon,seeing that they was drawn from the same groups of people,and even shared some of the same rituals.I just cant see the Nova/Spirit cats taking their rituals from native north americans as much as the Coyotes did.  ::)

So,,the Clan Prot' has Shark/foxes,,,Novas/spirits and,,,what ta' hell maybe a few ol'Jags?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: cold1 on 09 June 2013, 07:05:31
Why not Clan Burrock?  They survived "whack a Burrock" 3 times.  Ok...  this time they suffered orbital bombardment... but still.   :D

This would certainly explain the Adder invasion O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 09 June 2013, 13:05:46
Although the name "Clan Protectorate" may imply that the Protectorate is a state for all Clans to come in, it is really only a haven for Clan Spirit Cat (Nova Cats) and the Sea Foxes.  The Spirit Cats who came to Marik under Star Colonel Rikkard conquered Marik to establish a sanctuary for their people, and the Sea Foxes assisted so that they could establish a warehouse district and and have a base of operations in Marik space to trade from.

There are no signs of any other Clans in Clan Protectorate space.  Any other Clans that wish to come, unless they would be willing to become part of Clan Spirit Cat, would be essentially invaders.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 June 2013, 15:26:47
Protectorate was chosen for the other worlds in the union, which is the simplest version of the government protection racket.

"We tax your exports, Foxes peddle them in the broad markets they have access to which can increase your volume of sales without have to go selling door to door yourselves.  The export tax money goes to pay for protection in the form of Fox & Cat troops or trained troops.  Anything we need from your world which has internal autonomy we pay market value for when we buy the item from you."

Is basically what we know of the formation.  Some points to ponder . . . how many MSC troops survived the Fox backed Cat final push on Marik?  Were they taken as bondsmen?  How many freebirths were taken into the Spirit Cat touman during the nearly 10 years for training?  Could Kisho have landed in the barrens of Marik and kept out of sight to let sleeping Dragons lie?

As for others . . . some of the former Steel Wolves might have shown up after their dissolution?  And yes, there was a Jaguar trueborn among the Steel Wolves, read of that what you will.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 09 June 2013, 15:33:48
Inova Wolf is not—and cannot be—a trueborn Smoke Jaguar. Hell, she was born nearly 50 years after the Jags were annihilated! What she is—what she has to be—is a Wolf born from Jaguar bloodlines. Her dossier was just poorly worded.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 June 2013, 15:52:29
Yes, perhaps bad phrasing on my part.

Although . . .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 26 June 2013, 19:23:33
Very little Spirit Cat info or even Clan Protectorate info in TRO 3145 that I saw from my first run through.

A little in the Juliano pilot section about it defeating some Cats

A little more in the Seleucus again in the notable units section

Didn't really notice much else which is a shame since I expected more being the Clan Protectorate is a FWL faction unless I missed something.  Maybe more in Clans
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 26 June 2013, 20:03:57
I think the fact that the Clan Protectorate is a relatively recent development has a lot to do with the lack of information in TRO3145:FLW. After all, it covers a fifty year period of time and the Clan Protectorate has only been around for seven years.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 26 June 2013, 21:27:11
Curious where the Cave Lion is going to end up.
Didn't show up with the Nova Cat mechs in the DC TRO.
Didn't show up as a Spirit Cat/Protectorate mech in the FWL TRO.
I guess it's going to end up in the Clan TRO but produced by who?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 26 June 2013, 21:51:27
The Sea Foxes?

Though given its a CAVE Lion, perhaps the Bears.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 26 June 2013, 22:09:07
The Sea Foxes?

Though given its a CAVE Lion, perhaps the Bears.

Or the Hell's Horses maybe as a nod towards the Stone Lions in the Homeworlds an acknowledgement of the loss they had at Home but the continuing changes...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 26 June 2013, 23:39:56
Do you mean the in-universe reason or the real-world reason? Don't think anyone who frequents the boards can answer the latter but the former is because Rikkard Nova Cat had a vision of a bird riding a tornado across a hot and arid landscape.
What novel was this in?  I vaguely remember Dekkard not being the visionary type, but I think that was his dossier.  You've now got me interested in going back and rereading rereading those novels.

Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 26 June 2013, 23:53:07
Inova Wolf is not—and cannot be—a trueborn Smoke Jaguar. Hell, she was born nearly 50 years after the Jags were annihilated! What she is—what she has to be—is a Wolf born from Jaguar bloodlines. Her dossier was just poorly worded.
We're the Jaguar lines ever officially Reaved?  Warriors of Kerensky mentions that their exclusive bloodlines are effectively extinct, but was it ever made official?  If not, I could see the Wolves (especially the Exiles) using them.  Always wondered why the Cats didn't use them themselves, being Abjured and the Star League having control over the Jaguar master repository.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 June 2013, 00:03:19
I think the fact that the Clan Protectorate is a relatively recent development has a lot to do with the lack of information in TRO3145:FLW. After all, it covers a fifty year period of time and the Clan Protectorate has only been around for seven years.
True... Also, what kind of manufacturing facilities were already there?  I'm certain the Cats didn't take anything with them.
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 27 June 2013, 01:29:08
Curious where the Cave Lion is going to end up.
Didn't show up with the Nova Cat mechs in the DC TRO.
Didn't show up as a Spirit Cat/Protectorate mech in the FWL TRO.
I guess it's going to end up in the Clan TRO but produced by who?

Maybe they're saving it for the print TRO.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 27 June 2013, 03:34:50
We're the Jaguar lines ever officially Reaved?  Warriors of Kerensky mentions that their exclusive bloodlines are effectively extinct, but was it ever made official?  If not, I could see the Wolves (especially the Exiles) using them.  Always wondered why the Cats didn't use them themselves, being Abjured and the Star League having control over the Jaguar master repository.
Thanks,
Kamose
According to the Wars of Reaving, Clan Cloud Cobra and Clan Goliath Scorpion sent joint forces to Huntress to reave a number of the Smoke Jaguar Legacies stored in Mount Szabo in June 3072, the majority of those legacies having gone unused since the Smoke Jaguar Annihilation.

Mount Szabo had become a Society facility at some point, and after the Scoprions and Cobras took the facility in a ground assault, they took enough isorla to replace their losses and then destroyed the facility by orbital bombardment on the 30th of June.

The Cobras and Scorpions then started going over other old Smoke Jaguar enclaves on Huntress to try and find out where the advanced tech they had captured from the Society forces at Mount Szabo had come from, only to be interrupted partway through when Clan Coyote forces turned up, dropped ground troops to seize a number of facilities and either loot or remove them, and then blow through the two Scorpion warships in orbit while leaving the system.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 27 June 2013, 06:02:08
What novel was this in?  I vaguely remember Dekkard not being the visionary type, but I think that was his dossier.  You've now got me interested in going back and rereading rereading those novels.

Thanks,
Kamose
Pandora's Gambit I believe.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 27 June 2013, 06:48:24
What novel was this in?  I vaguely remember Dekkard not being the visionary type, but I think that was his dossier.  You've now got me interested in going back and rereading rereading those novels.

Thanks,
Kamose

You are either thinking of Dekkard Nova Cat the Behemoth II Tank Driver, or Declan Devalis, the Marauder II Mechwarrior.  Rikkard Nova Cat was the leader of the Spirit Cats in the Free World's League books, and was a huge believer in visions, especially Kev Rosse's.

Truth be told, I feel like his vision has less to do with Marik and more to do with a certain Jade Falcon causing lots of trouble up in the Lyran Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 27 June 2013, 07:33:22
Or the Hell's Horses maybe as a nod towards the Stone Lions in the Homeworlds an acknowledgement of the loss they had at Home but the continuing changes...

Hard to give a nod to the Stone Lions when the Horses don't know they exist.  Unless of course something is afoot after the 'loss' of communication with the homeworlds.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 27 June 2013, 07:42:11
You are either thinking of Dekkard Nova Cat the Behemoth II Tank Driver, or Declan Devalis, the Marauder II Mechwarrior.  Rikkard Nova Cat was the leader of the Spirit Cats in the Free World's League books, and was a huge believer in visions, especially Kev Rosse's.
Could have been thinking about Kisho too. From what I remember, he wasnt a huge believer in the more mystical aspect of the Cats. (Ironically)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 28 June 2013, 11:13:23
Pandora's Gambit I believe.
Thank you, sir.  Hitting the shelves and reading soon...
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 28 June 2013, 11:16:31
You are either thinking of Dekkard Nova Cat the Behemoth II Tank Driver, or Declan Devalis, the Marauder II Mechwarrior.  Rikkard Nova Cat was the leader of the Spirit Cats in the Free World's League books, and was a huge believer in visions, especially Kev Rosse's.

Truth be told, I feel like his vision has less to do with Marik and more to do with a certain Jade Falcon causing lots of trouble up in the Lyran Commonwealth.
Thanks for the correction - I always mix those two up.  Now I'll have to check HIS dossier, along with Pandora's Gambit.  Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 28 June 2013, 15:51:25
The more I think about it, the more I think Rikkard's vision may have had to do with the Republic itself.  He saw a "Predatory bird circling a volcano, amid a barren landscape".  If we assume that the Predatory bird = the Spirit Cats, then the Volcano and barren landscape could be the Republic, AKA an inhospitable land for the Spirit Cats to find sanctuary in.  Sort of contributes to why he eventually sought their sanctuary outside of the Republic.

Man, I really want some fiction about the inner workings on the Clan Protectorate.  Not just the warrior stuff, but how the Spirit Cats are trying to set up an entire Clan society in Dormuth.  In To Ride the Chimera, they are rebuilding Dormuth in the architectural style of a Clan city, but we have nothing beyond that.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dreyf on 28 June 2013, 16:11:15
Hard to give a nod to the Stone Lions when the Horses don't know they exist.  Unless of course something is afoot after the 'loss' of communication with the homeworlds.

Why wouldn't they?  The Lions were 'created' in 3075 and the Inner Sphere clans did not officially break contact until the mid-3080s.  The Stone Lions are mentioned in Wars of Reaving which is a Sea Fox compiled document to the Council of Six.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 28 June 2013, 16:19:44
Its made for Exiles and Refugees.

Any chance, 60 years later we may have some blood spirit survivors? Or other fallen clans?

I would think Escorpiones fleeting a Homeworlder invasion of the Imperio would be more likely than Spirits.  If any Spirits survived they're probably holed up in he Deep Periphery hoping they stay isolated forever.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 28 June 2013, 16:39:58
The more I think about it, the more I think Rikkard's vision may have had to do with the Republic itself.  He saw a "Predatory bird circling a volcano, amid a barren landscape".  If we assume that the Predatory bird = the Spirit Cats, then the Volcano and barren landscape could be the Republic, AKA an inhospitable land for the Spirit Cats to find sanctuary in.  Sort of contributes to why he eventually sought their sanctuary outside of the Republic.

You know most people associate predatory birds with Clan Jade Falcon? And Malvina has form with barren landscapes. Just pointing out that there are lots of ways to read that. And that assumes Nova Cat visions aren't hokum to start with.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 28 June 2013, 16:55:32
He saw a "Predatory bird circling a volcano, amid a barren landscape".

He saw "a predatory bird astride a tornado moving across an endless, hot and dry landscape".

The predatory bird is the Marik eagle. The tornado and the hot and dry landscape describe the climate of the planet Marik, as described in both house books. I don't have my PDFs available right now or I'd paste some relevant quotes (I recall that the first book contains specific refs to frequent tornados crisscrossing the landscape, or somesuch), but you can look them up for yourself.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 28 June 2013, 20:07:08
He saw "a predatory bird astride a tornado moving across an endless, hot and dry landscape".

The predatory bird is the Marik eagle. The tornado and the hot and dry landscape describe the climate of the planet Marik, as described in both house books. I don't have my PDFs available right now or I'd paste some relevant quotes (I recall that the first book contains specific refs to frequent tornados crisscrossing the landscape, or somesuch), but you can look them up for yourself.
No problem, I'll gladly look it up myself.  I just appreciate the confirmation on the references.  Thanks again.
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 28 June 2013, 20:38:28
He saw "a predatory bird astride a tornado moving across an endless, hot and dry landscape".

The predatory bird is the Marik eagle. The tornado and the hot and dry landscape describe the climate of the planet Marik, as described in both house books. I don't have my PDFs available right now or I'd paste some relevant quotes (I recall that the first book contains specific refs to frequent tornados crisscrossing the landscape, or somesuch), but you can look them up for yourself.

Yup Marik was always described as arid and windswept with buildings built low to the ground almost like bunkers to protect them from the weather not really a holiday spot
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 28 June 2013, 21:21:50
Well, guess that's what happens when I never read anything that describes the planetary climate of Marik.  Hopefully such an inhospitable planet isn't something the other Free Worlds League states will want again any time soon.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 29 June 2013, 00:04:17
Only think I could see them wanting t for is the symbolism it's Marik

the saving grace for the Clan Protectorate could be they made terms with the new FWL and are happy to play nice with them if t were Wolves in possession of tr world instead I could see some bitter battles over the world
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 29 June 2013, 08:20:07
True, a blue-blood Marik like Kenyon might certainly want it back, but I feel like Captain-General Jessica Marik is more than happy with the symbolism of sitting on Artreus while the planet Marik is a part of the Free Worlds League, no matter who actually sits there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 29 June 2013, 13:21:44
True, a blue-blood Marik like Kenyon might certainly want it back, but I feel like Captain-General Jessica Marik is more than happy with the symbolism of sitting on Artreus while the planet Marik is a part of the Free Worlds League, no matter who actually sits there.

True enough, i mean its not like we're the Liao's after all.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 04 July 2013, 08:50:15
 If interesting:

 Known Spirit cat warriors from "Purifiers"  cluster

Rikkard Nova Cat Shadow Hawk IIC4
Maria Devalis Shadow Hawk IIC
Monic Delaportas Warhammer IIC
Angus Drummond Mad Cat II (Star captain of supernova trinary)
Arnis Drummond Dasher II
Zabiha Nostra Thunderbolt

Etan Nova Cat BE701 Joust Tank
Janis Nova Cat  Arbalest
Sariah Nova Cat Centurion
Dyan Nova Cat Saxon APC (freeborn)
Lenell Nova Cat Ocelot (trueborn)

Rob Hoge (it is bloodname?)  Ocelot

According to http://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf

 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 July 2013, 08:54:19
And Janis Nova Cat is the one who was giving Rikkard so many problems he put her down.

Edit: Re: Hoge... I don't think so, it's not on the lists from Klondike.  Maybe the Nova Cats made a new one?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 July 2013, 11:56:35
The original vision warned to contact with inner sphere or the republic. I think the spirit cats are a really amazing faction. But I wonder how safe they are. On the other hand, sharing the world with the sea foxes helps. Even on bonfire of worlds alaric warns against kicking that hornets nest.

I like the sea fox spirit cat bond.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 July 2013, 11:58:17
It is nice to see that a few Clan groups can cooperate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 04 July 2013, 12:45:44
If interesting:

 Known Spirit cat warriors from "Purifiers"  cluster

Rikkard Nova Cat Shadow Hawk IIC4
Maria Devalis Shadow Hawk IIC
Monic Delaportas Warhammer IIC
Angus Drummond Mad Cat II (Star captain of supernova trinary)
Arnis Drummond Dasher II
Zabiha Nostra Thunderbolt

Etan Nova Cat BE701 Joust Tank
Janis Nova Cat  Arbalest
Sariah Nova Cat Centurion
Dyan Nova Cat Saxon APC (freeborn)
Lenell Nova Cat Ocelot (trueborn)

Rob Hoge (it is bloodname?)  Ocelot

According to http://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf

Rikkard was actually a Star Colonel in charge of the Shiva Keshik Cluster, and Kev Rosse's right-hand man in the Spirit Cats.  The books never paid much heed to the clusters/regiments the clix game identified pieces with, I think the ranks were really just another carry-over from Mage Knight/Heroclix that didn't work as well in the Mechwarrior setting.  Then again, Rikkard was gathering up as many Spirit Cats as he could in general on Irian, so he probably had stars and trinaries from all 3-5 clusters of the Spirit Cats.

Ditto on the Sea Fox-Spirit Cat cooperation being a cool thing to see.  It's a very mutually beneficial relationship, and Rikkard and Petr Kalasa's friendship, even if it is only lightly touched on, is pretty neat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 04 July 2013, 23:47:48
Hmm, Rob Hoge's pilot card just states he's a ristar which no real info on his past. Of course it wouldn't be the first time a Bloodname was made up for a Dark Age figure.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 05 July 2013, 02:55:44
Hmm, Rob Hoge's pilot card just states he's a ristar which no real info on his past. Of course it wouldn't be the first time a Bloodname was made up for a Dark Age figure.

  May be this is not "Hoge" , but "Howe" . Snow Raven bloodname .

  But i find another DA hint

Quote
Although Sariah is delicate to the point of fragility, since the days of her sibko training she has used this fact as another weapon in her arsenal: most people underestimate her thanks to her diminutive size. Though an excellent warrior, it is her skill at weaving the threads of power and ambition that sets her apart in the Spirit Cats, especially since she is a member of the lesser-known, non-exclusive Bloodname House Vozka. Her current ambitions seem focused on winning command of the Purifiers. This will obviously pit her head-to-head against Janis Nova Cat, which could provide some interesting opportunities.

 Only Vozka that i find -  Major Kelle Vozka 3rd Battalion 1894th Light Horse Regiment (3067 ) . New clan breeding program in RoTS ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 05 July 2013, 06:34:43
Vozka is on the bloodname list in Operation Klondike.  Page 36 to be exact.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dreyf on 05 July 2013, 15:04:34
The Cats could also have done their own version of the Trials of Propogation-? that other clans did after the IS clans had their Great Reavings in the 3090s.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: blackwizards on 10 July 2013, 15:54:26
And why should any sane HW clanner want to invade again, seeing how it all ends in corrupted/poisoned/insane clans?
Because whats the point of keeping the HW clans around and developing their story if there isn't going to be a second invasion?  ;)

Wars of Reaving mentions the possibility and the preparations required for such an undertaking a few times.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 10 July 2013, 21:36:02
Because whats the point of keeping the HW clans around and developing their story if there isn't going to be a second invasion?  ;)

Wars of Reaving mentions the possibility and the preparations required for such an undertaking a few times.
Perhaps as a setting for an alternate universe?  I remember in the VERY old Traveller days, they had an area that they said would never be described or detailed, so it could be kind of "GM's Playground".  With all the griping on the threads these days about everything TPTB do, maybe they'll say "Here's the bare bones.  Go for it."  Very doubtful, I'm sure, but a possibility.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 July 2013, 01:58:25
Just finished ride the chimera. The name penelope novacat is adorable.

I was ecstatically happy reading each chapter that involved the clans. Despite their laconic attitude rikkard and petr are as close as the clans get to kind souls.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 July 2013, 02:31:06
I wonder if there is a bit more to rikkards vision. The arid landscape is obviously marik. It has tornadoes. The bird represents the league.

But I wonder if the whirlwind represents the free worlds leagues chimera like nature and if that eagle represents julietta marik keeping them free. Thats probably reading to much into it. But fun
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 15 July 2013, 15:29:08
I could have sworn the tornado was a reference to Operation Homecoming.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 July 2013, 15:30:01
The thing with visions is that there are multiple interpretations.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 15 July 2013, 16:42:07
The CONVENIENT thing with Visions is they have multiple interpretations.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 17 July 2013, 10:32:19
Refresh my memory with Operation Stormdrain.

Who's was that?

That may have something to do with it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 17 July 2013, 21:18:12
I feel like that was Jessica Marik's plan.

But the Regulans also had a ridiculously named plan they were implementing. I just read it. I wish I could remember which belonged to who.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 17 July 2013, 21:31:25
Stormdrain was an Oriente plan to distract the Regulans from whatever they were doing. It was launched by Jessica to cover her activities against the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth. The plan was developed and implemented by SAFE-Oriente and culminated in the destruction of a resort on Clipperton, the loss of, IIRC< some 10,000 lives and was made to look like the work of a Blakist terrorist cell.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 17 July 2013, 22:36:45
Stormdrain was an Oriente plan to distract the Regulans from whatever they were doing. It was launched by Jessica to cover her activities against the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth. The plan was developed and implemented by SAFE-Oriente and culminated in the destruction of a resort on Clipperton, the loss of, IIRC< some 10,000 lives and was made to look like the work of a Blakist terrorist cell.

Your memory retention is fascinating and amazing.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 18 July 2013, 00:09:16
Or else he has notes handy.  Or a copy of the book.  IIRC Roosterboy once ran a BT encyclopedia of sorts (before wikis became all the rage), so it wouldn't surprise me if he had notes handy.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 July 2013, 09:33:16
So I have some thoughts on the Clan Protectorate I think would be fun for us all to ponder.

Firstly, what is going to be the Clan Spirit Cat-Clan Sea Fox in the Protectorate?  It seems up to 3145, the Sea Foxes and Spirit Cats are pretty amiable with each other.  The Spirit Cats seem to be providing the vast majority of the Ground Touman, while the Sea Foxes have their aerospace voidship forces covered.  The Spirit Cats are using Marik as a new Homeworld, while the Sea Foxes do not seem to have much use for it other than a warehouse world in Marik space (Same as Itabiana in Drac space).  That said, it has been hinted by some developers (in this thread no less), that there may be more Sea Foxes than Spirit Cats on Marik, to say nothing of the I.S. population, and that the Sea Foxes have the upper hand in the relationship.  Rikkard and Petr Kalasa's friendship certainly helps, and there does not seem to be any reason for conflict, so here is hoping.

Secondly, between Jessica of Marik's influence on the Spirit Cat leadership and their new place in Marik politics, is the average Clan character going to change and become much more... I.S.?  The idea of scheming, reading between the lines,, and in general politicking has always been presented as something "unClanlike"(Despite the many Clan bad guys who do it anyway), but will the Spirit Cats as they go on in the Protectorate begin to develop both as warriors and politico experts?  Or at least will the leadership develop these skills but still be presented as good Clansmen?

Thirdly, and this is just some idle speculation,but what happens to all the planetary militias on Clan Protectorate worlds?  Obviously before the Protectorate was formed these planets had to have something to defend themselves with.  While the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes have their own pure Clan Clusters, and then the Protectorate Guardian Clusters, are there still planetary militias to include in the mix?  If so, are they being allowed to stay in Inner Sphere configuration, or have they made the transition over to Clan standards of organization?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 18 July 2013, 09:43:42
So I have some thoughts on the Clan Protectorate I think would be fun for us all to ponder.

Firstly, what is going to be the Clan Spirit Cat-Clan Sea Fox in the Protectorate?  It seems up to 3145, the Sea Foxes and Spirit Cats are pretty amiable with each other.  The Spirit Cats seem to be providing the vast majority of the Ground Touman, while the Sea Foxes have their aerospace voidship forces covered.  The Spirit Cats are using Marik as a new Homeworld, while the Sea Foxes do not seem to have much use for it other than a warehouse world in Marik space (Same as Itabiana in Drac space).  That said, it has been hinted by some developers (in this thread no less), that there may be more Sea Foxes than Spirit Cats on Marik, to say nothing of the I.S. population, and that the Sea Foxes have the upper hand in the relationship.  Rikkard and Petr Kalasa's friendship certainly helps, and there does not seem to be any reason for conflict, so here is hoping.

It still isn't the entire Sea Fox clan at work.  Petr Kalasa's Spina Khanate was warned to not get involved in anyone's politics.  The consequences of his choices are yet to be fully revieled.  For all we know, Spina Khanate is isolated from the rest of the Sea Foxes.

Quote
Secondly, between Jessica of Marik's influence on the Spirit Cat leadership and their new place in Marik politics, is the average Clan character going to change and become much more... I.S.?  The idea of scheming, reading between the lines,, and in general politicking has always been presented as something "unClanlike"(Despite the many Clan bad guys who do it anyway), but will the Spirit Cats as they go on in the Protectorate begin to develop both as warriors and politico experts?  Or at least will the leadership develop these skills but still be presented as good Clansmen?

Well, i'd say that all the clans have a history of politics, whether that is the Gran Council or in the case of the Nova Cat precussors, the Star League, Draconis Combine and Republic of the Sphere.  Politics are not alien to them, and they owe their survival to their leadership's ability to act politically.

I think politics just gets a bad name in the clans thanks to Alexsandr Kerensky's disgust towards politics.  Nicholas played tons of political games with the clans, but his positions was essentially never in doubt.  After his very sudden death and no apparent successor, the clans started down the road of politics.  It doesn't help that the Refusal War the scheming Jade Falcon Khan and saKhan were both sneaky schemers without warrior records to back it.  That sort of one sided, might makes right is an easy misconception.  They all play those games.

Quote
Thirdly, and this is just some idle speculation,but what happens to all the planetary militias on Clan Protectorate worlds?  Obviously before the Protectorate was formed these planets had to have something to defend themselves with.  While the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes have their own pure Clan Clusters, and then the Protectorate Guardian Clusters, are there still planetary militias to include in the mix?  If so, are they being allowed to stay in Inner Sphere configuration, or have they made the transition over to Clan standards of organization?

Or even exist.  It wouldn't shock me if the Cats scooped up all their weapons and told them to try out for the Guardians.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: snewsom2997 on 18 July 2013, 09:47:26
Firstly, what is going to be the Clan Spirit Cat-Clan Sea Fox in the Protectorate?  It seems up to 3145, the Sea Foxes and Spirit Cats are pretty amiable with each other.  The Spirit Cats seem to be providing the vast majority of the Ground Touman, while the Sea Foxes have their aerospace voidship forces covered.  The Spirit Cats are using Marik as a new Homeworld, while the Sea Foxes do not seem to have much use for it other than a warehouse world in Marik space (Same as Itabiana in Drac space).  That said, it has been hinted by some developers (in this thread no less), that there may be more Sea Foxes than Spirit Cats on Marik, to say nothing of the I.S. population, and that the Sea Foxes have the upper hand in the relationship.  Rikkard and Petr Kalasa's friendship certainly helps, and there does not seem to be any reason for conflict, so here is hoping.

Not that many followed the Spirit Cats, other than those in the Republic already. I also don't think they had the time to pack up their breeding program.
The two clans have had a long relationship with each other even before Revival, they worked together to make the merchant Carracks, and they both had powerful merchant castes.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 18 July 2013, 09:51:29
It was demonstrated they do have medical scientists with them when Julietta's spine was treated with advanced techniques unknown outside of the clans.  It isn't impossible for them to restart the breeding program using existing samples in the Touman.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 July 2013, 10:07:32
Furthermore, the Clan Protectorate may have gotten samples from Nova Cat enclaves in the Republic right on the border.  And if Kisho ever makes his way to the Protectorate, I would not be surprised if Khan Jacali had loaded up his jumpship with the entire Genetic Repository storage of the Clan.  To have done anything less would have been to perpetuate the genocide of her people.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 July 2013, 10:17:46
That scene of petr, rikkard and julietta climbing over a fence and going to watch the re establishment of the free worlds league is one of my favorites. They just have a really natural relationship.

Clan Sea Fox has an enclave on marik. But im not sure how ownership over the protectorate goes. Winning over the loyalty of the other worlds was definitely a joint agreement.

Maybe we will merge into clan adorable. With the spirit cats doing most of the ground stuff.

Ive always liked the relationship between the two clans. Alternatively the whole clan sea fox has been pushing for more independance.

I Also wonderif they wont push for a protectorate with their new federated suns worlds.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 18 July 2013, 10:19:32
Furthermore, the Clan Protectorate may have gotten samples from Nova Cat enclaves in the Republic right on the border.  And if Kisho ever makes his way to the Protectorate, I would not be surprised if Khan Jacali had loaded up his jumpship with the entire Genetic Repository storage of the Clan.  To have done anything less would have been to perpetuate the genocide of her people.

The Cats were under the idea that, when they began their revolt, they would ultimately have the support to finish it. Kisho's little band of wandering whatevers were just those few warriors and civilians who managed to look at each other, scream "yikes," and get the hell out of Dodge. The Genetic Repository is a big complex, and until told otherwise, I personally consider it a complete loss.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 18 July 2013, 10:22:24
Yeah, it might be getting hopes up too high to expect Kisho to make it to the Clan Protectorate with the repository.  More civilians, sure.  Maybe even some of them scientists and trueborn washouts.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 July 2013, 10:25:54
The Cats were under the idea that, when they began their revolt, they would ultimately have the support to finish it. Kisho's little band of wandering whatevers were just those few warriors and civilians who managed to look at each other, scream "yikes," and get the hell out of Dodge. The Genetic Repository is a big complex, and until told otherwise, I personally consider it a complete loss.

Given the importance of Kisho in Nova Cat society (as essentially the only Mystic left of the next generation other than Oathmaster Kanaye), his departure could not just be some random fleeing.  Even with Jacali Nostra's disdain of visions (and Mystics, surely), she convened a kurultai to decide what Clan Nova Cat would do once the rebellion was seen as failing.  They had enough time to take out the giftakes, surely.

Perhaps this is just exposing my ignorance of how a genetic repository works, but how hard would it be for scientists to load up all the giftakes into little vials and ship them out?  The Nova Cats had little time, but surely enough to organize a small exodus in case their last defense of Irece failed.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 July 2013, 10:52:31
Furthermore, the Clan Protectorate may have gotten samples from Nova Cat enclaves in the Republic right on the border.  And if Kisho ever makes his way to the Protectorate, I would not be surprised if Khan Jacali had loaded up his jumpship with the entire Genetic Repository storage of the Clan.  To have done anything less would have been to perpetuate the genocide of her people.

She didnt have any illusions of victory. She told her warriors she had led them wrong. No way that they didnt send kisho equipped with the best chance of success.

Rikkard was expecting another cluster of spirit cats that didnt come. So whether they got things from the republic enclaves is up in the air.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 July 2013, 10:58:41
She didnt have any illusions of victory. She told her warriors she had led them wrong. No way that they didnt send kisho equipped with the best chance of success.

Exactly.  :)

Quote
Rikkard was expecting another cluster of spirit cats that didnt come. So whether they got things from the republic enclaves is up in the air.

That was during the Battle of Marik, when he expected reinforcements directly from Kev Rosse's direction.  Following the Conquest of Marik, CNC Enclaves might be a bit more receptive to relocating to a Spirit Cat world when before it was up in the air whether or not the battle would be won.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 18 July 2013, 11:01:05
She didnt have any illusions of victory. She told her warriors she had led them wrong. No way that they didnt send kisho equipped with the best chance of success.
I'm going to be honest, I don't recall much of that being presented in being given in the summary of events in ER: 3145. Do we have any indication that Kisho was sent forth by Jacali? (Serious question.)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 18 July 2013, 12:33:08
I'm going to be honest, I don't recall much of that being presented in being given in the summary of events in ER: 3145. Do we have any indication that Kisho was sent forth by Jacali? (Serious question.)

If I recall it right, Kisho's flight from the Cats read more like a last minute idea, but until the Annihilation gets more than a cursory summation, it's hard to speculate. Besides, if Khan Nostra had attempted to organize an exodus, I honestly feel like it would've been aimed more at getting civilians out of the Combine than on saving the Repository. The Cats have a long history of dying nobly for their civvies, after all.  [blank]
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 18 July 2013, 13:38:04
A long history being one occasion?

No if it was a choice between the repository's knowledge and the scientists to run it or a thousand or even a million civilians any Clanner would take the first option

It's simple math 10 years after the repository was online you would have as many civilians (if not more) from washouts of the warrior program plus retreating with that many civilians would put a heavy burden on your people straight away which no small group could survive

A small group has better chances in the short term a larger group is required for growth

If you think of Kishos group as the opposite to any colony effort you've ever heard of.  They want to start small to stay hidden they want enough resources to build a new repository and sustain there people that's it they don't need sprawling facilities and massive growth straight away the iron wombs will sustain them.

 If they survived and had iron womb tech with them Kishos people could become the closest thing to a pure Clan sustained as the original ones were with the iron wombs
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 July 2013, 13:50:33
If I recall it right, Kisho's flight from the Cats read more like a last minute idea, but until the Annihilation gets more than a cursory summation, it's hard to speculate. Besides, if Khan Nostra had attempted to organize an exodus, I honestly feel like it would've been aimed more at getting civilians out of the Combine than on saving the Repository. The Cats have a long history of dying nobly for their civvies, after all.  [blank]

How much room would it take to transport a genetic heritage though?  In the intro story for "Wars of Reaving", Nicholas and Andery's heritages fit into a hand-sized box.  Of course, moving an entire Repository's worth of blood heritages will mean lots of boxes, but maybe enough to fill in a single room on a dropship?  There is still plenty of room for civilians beyond that.

Quote from: Kitsune2413
I'm going to be honest, I don't recall much of that being presented in being given in the summary of events in ER: 3145. Do we have any indication that Kisho was sent forth by Jacali? (Serious question.)

No explicit indication, but given that Clan warriors are not prone to just up and running, and that Kisho was an important enough Nova Cat warrior to warrant inclusion in meetings between Khan and Warlord, I feel like Kisho's departure would be more than "some warriors and civvies going 'splitsville'.  Don't forget that Era Report is written from the Remnant perspective; they know just about everything that happened, but only on the surface level.  Who knows if Jacali didn't have a secretive meeting with Kisho and Kanaye, admitted the Kesari faction was disastrously wrong, and entrusted Kisho with the future of the Nova Cats?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 18 July 2013, 14:28:13
A long history being one occasion?

In the Abjuration, Cat units cut off from each other, and with no idea they had been Abjured, chose to sacrifice themselves to buy their civilian populations time to either be assimilated by a stronger ally (Cobras, Ravens, or Sharks) or to outright flee. There's a reason that less than a Galaxy of troops made it to the Inner Sphere, beyond simply saying that the other Clans were that outright ruthless. I count each of those fights in the Homeworlds as separate incidents, personally. They didn't turn and fight for their giftakes and control of the repository, either. I think that sets a standard, to be honest. Of course, Kisho may have had the wherewithal to make such a play, but in the face of extinction I'd more expect him to save everyone and anyone he could, Founders' legacies be damned.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 July 2013, 15:06:08
How did Clan NovaCat rebuild their repository then on Irece?  Were the blood heritages present there from 3060-3143 made up of warriors from the CLan invasion onward?  Where did the heritages come from?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 18 July 2013, 15:11:02
How did Clan NovaCat rebuild their repository then on Irece?  Were the blood heritages present there from 3060-3143 made up of warriors from the CLan invasion onward?  Where did the heritages come from?

All the invading clans likely established copies of their breeding programs inside their respective OZs.. prior to the Great Refusal there was much operational security on the so-called 'Exodus Road'.. keeping 'production' of new generations of Trueborn warriors local to their conquests was not only safer, but likely cheaper than shipping all those sibbies in from the Homeworlds.

That there were entire generations of Clanners who were raised in the Inner Sphere and never set foot in the Homeworlds was one of the cultural factors that ultimately led to the Wars of Reaving.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 July 2013, 18:24:43
I think alot of the genetic repository buildings are more  chapel/cathedral. Warriors keep their genetic legacies on a tiny bracelet. I dont think moving copies is a monumental task.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 18 July 2013, 18:46:26
I think alot of the genetic repository buildings are more  chapel/cathedral. Warriors keep their genetic legacies on a tiny bracelet. I dont think moving copies is a monumental task.

Ah, now that isn't something I'd initially considered, and a very interesting point. A warrior's codex contains a copy of their DNA and genetic information, and can act as a giftake in the case of that warrior's death and inclusion in the breeding programs. I'd think it fair to say that any giftakes and data stored in the chapels would be lost, but now that I consider it, those codices would be a living record that a skilled Clan geneticist could probably work backwards from. If not that, then they'd probably be a good basis for new lines based directly on those surviving Trueborns.

Good catch, Kitsune! My mind isn't with me today, it seems.  :D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: snewsom2997 on 18 July 2013, 18:48:08
I think alot of the genetic repository buildings are more  chapel/cathedral. Warriors keep their genetic legacies on a tiny bracelet. I dont think moving copies is a monumental task.

Should all fit in a Cargo Dropship, assuming they had time to pack it up. The Clans were known for keeping Backup repositories, at least in the HW. I would be think they did the same thing in the IS. Distributing the locations, would be a sound idea anyway, considering not everyone was friends.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 July 2013, 22:21:09
Good catch, Kitsune! My mind isn't with me today, it seems.  :D

Thank you wonc!  :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 18 July 2013, 23:46:58
Given the importance of Kisho in Nova Cat society (as essentially the only Mystic left of the next generation other than Oathmaster Kanaye), his departure could not just be some random fleeing.  Even with Jacali Nostra's disdain of visions (and Mystics, surely), she convened a kurultai to decide what Clan Nova Cat would do once the rebellion was seen as failing.  They had enough time to take out the giftakes, surely.

Perhaps this is just exposing my ignorance of how a genetic repository works, but how hard would it be for scientists to load up all the giftakes into little vials and ship them out?  The Nova Cats had little time, but surely enough to organize a small exodus in case their last defense of Irece failed.
Why not?  The Khan surely did not see failure as an option, did she?  That would be anti-Clan thinking.  Especially with her disdain of visions.  As far as how much room it would take - a freezer about the size of a small car would do it (I'm a geneticist, so I know what I'm talking about).  I don't remember if Kisho was the idiot who led some refugees to the Bears (never finished ER:3145) or if that was someone else; either way, that fact that he is a Kurita just doesn't make me think he's going to win over the Clan Nekakami.
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 19 July 2013, 01:53:17
you forget about the republican genetic repository.  If NC genetic heritage has been destroyed on Irise, Spirit Cats can take RoTS  cat legacy. Whith aid of Sea Fox in constraction of genetic repository.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 19 July 2013, 06:24:48
By the time the Cats proper when belly up I don't think the Spirit Cats would be in a position to raid Republic worlds to access any repositories. Assuming it's not behind the wall or (still) exists. Who knows, that might have been what Kisho and the Gang (8:00pm EST or check local listings) were up to when they went off the radar.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 July 2013, 10:56:58
Why not?  The Khan surely did not see failure as an option, did she?  That would be anti-Clan thinking.  Especially with her disdain of visions.  As far as how much room it would take - a freezer about the size of a small car would do it (I'm a geneticist, so I know what I'm talking about).  I don't remember of Kisho was the idiot who led some refugees to the Bears (never finished ER:3145) or if that was someone else; either way, that fact that he is a Kurita just doesn't make me think he's going to win over the Clan Nekakami.
Kamose

He wasn't. He left way before they decided to retreat into Ghost Bear territory.

The Nova Cats liked Minoru Kurita. Or Minoru Nova Cat I suppose.

Minoru's genes won't poison the Nova Cats blood lines. If a few drops of the ocean become dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. He is only half kurita, and its a good kuritan half.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 19 July 2013, 11:37:23
He wasn't. He left way before they decided to retreat into Ghost Bear territory.

Kisho left just before the final battle on Irece.

We weren't given a specific date in ER3145 for the Cats that were killed by the Bears in the Rubigen system but it's a good bet that happened well in advance of the final battle on Irece given what we are told about the distribution of their remaining forces in December '42.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 July 2013, 11:40:26
Kisho left just before the final battle on Irece.

Haha. I guess 'Way Before' being relative. You are correct. As usual.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 July 2013, 13:04:40
Kisho left just before the final battle on Irece.

We weren't given a specific date in ER3145 for the Cats that were killed by the Bears in the Rubigen system but it's a good bet that happened well in advance of the final battle on Irece given what we are told about the distribution of their remaining forces in December '42.
Thanks for the correction.  It will be interesting to see where he turns up.  As far as Kisho being part Kurita, I think that will be an interesting part of the storyline if/when he DOES make a return appearance.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 25 July 2013, 08:29:46
 Another funny fact from DA sourse . Spirit Cats have their own Remembrance

In the darkness, a thousand un-trod paths
 Beckon our blindness, sirens for stopped eyes.
With courage unshaken, grasp Ways of Seeing,
Sniffing paths for truth, claws unsheathed; questing the light.
 Liz Nostra through a dozen battles, a true Nova Cat warrior,
Victory – steps closer down the path . . . refuge!
 Her victory on the shoulders of warriors great and small,
He from Blood House Drummond,
Who reminded the Cats of their Dragon heritage.
Enemies abound, Allies stretch their hands across the darkness.
—The Remembrance (Spirit Cats), Passage 2, Verse 3, Lines 1–10


 http://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Sneak_Peeks.pdf   ( Arnis Drummond )
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 25 July 2013, 20:46:09
I wouldn't say that they have their own Remembrance, just that they added some passages that Clan Nova Cat may not have sanctioned. :)

I have been wondering about Arnis Drummond lately.  If he indeed lives in the Clan Protectorate, I wonder how he may have changed since the Dragon that he so admired has attempted to annihilate his Clan.  It was very enjoyable to see named Spirit Cats from the clix game appear in the official novel series, wish they would have included more though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 26 July 2013, 15:21:10
Another funny fact from DA sourse . Spirit Cats have their own Remembrance

*snip*

—The Remembrance (Spirit Cats), Passage 2, Verse 3, Lines 1–10

 http://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Sneak_Peeks.pdf   ( Arnis Drummond )
One step closer to Clan Nekakami...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 July 2013, 23:29:44
For you personally or for the spirit cats?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 July 2013, 00:08:20
For you personally or for the spirit cats?
Hadn't really thought of it in those terms, but I'd have to say probably both.  Anarchy that, I mean more accepting of the Spirit Cats as a replacement for my much - beloved Nova Cats, and to the increasing mysticism of the Spirit Cats, while hoping TPTB don't turn them into "Clan Ninja."  I am slowly coming around to the idea of them being the literal and spiritual heirs of the Nova Cats, while having a real chance of a recovery as a new member of the Free Worlds League.  Thanks for asking, Kitsune.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 July 2013, 19:43:05
I think the naming conventions are more of a coincidence
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 July 2013, 21:23:58
I think the naming conventions are more of a coincidence
Oh, I agree... that just started out as my way of "protesting" the Nova Cat Annihilation by TPTB.  Purely pettiness, nothing more - I figured since we already had Spirit Cats (Nekakami), I'd make sure they were "Properly" Re-named to suit the new, updated world of 3145 in which the (Nova)Spirit Cats are run by a Kurita (Kisho), something that, to me as a Nova Cat fan, is an absolute anathema.  I would probably have given their current product more credit, but some much of it was so insulting to me as a fan, especially the Annihilation, that I never finished ER:3145 and still, when I find an opening and am having a bad day, I sometimes re-state my own semi-insult and MY lack of respect for that specific decision (and overall, in general).  So, no pure motive behind this one, only pettiness and whining, which I probably shouldn't have posted, but since I did, I will stand up and take responsibility for.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 July 2013, 21:52:43
You are good Kamose. You arent attacking writers or anything. Its ok to be upset.

I just finished heretics faith. It didnt really give me the insight that I was looking for. Kisho was a wreck. I was really hoping for some elaboration on the visions kisho and kev had. That novel just ended and they didnt pick up the threads. Except for rikkard in some later novels.

One thing that did strike me about the book is the way the nova cats act. They are very kuritan. Bow to show respect. Use kuritan honorifics and let themselves be bullied.

I dont think clan nova cat survived the second ghost bear war. Whatever is left on those reservations isnt the same. Pretty sad to read. Hopefully an author will pick up those threads on battlecorps. It would be amazing to see the drama.

I wish I could say they died like a clan. Maybe it was seeing their indoctrination to combine culture with the historical analogue revolution. But I think they were a greater casualty to the draconis combine than they know. Ulimately corrupted before being slain.

I think its ironic that the spirit cats looked to the nova cats and doubted themselves. Their actions after grey monday are very much reflective of the clan that joined the star league.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 July 2013, 22:09:29
Thanks, Kitsune.  I think it is always OK to disagree and say so, but one should still be civil and respectful.  I am sorry you were disappointed with Heretic's Faith; maybe now you see why I'm not as much of a Kisho fan as a lot of people around here are.  And I think you put into words exactly what I've been feeling all along but unable to express - the Spirit Cats are more like the Nova Cats that joined the 2nd Star League, NOT like those of the original Clan of Kerensky - and it was that second group, which HAD the courage to truly follow Kerensky's ideas and rejoin the Inner Sphere, that I was such a big fan of.  Their end, such as it was, was simply the final act of a mistake that began when they were not allowed to join as EQUALS.  With all the strength they had, especially their fleet, Kurita should have given them the Irece Prefecture and treated them as an EQUAL NATION - just like the did with the Free Rasalhague Speedbump Republic.  I never COULD get why they didn't.  Victor could (and, in my opinion, should) have forced such an option on Teddy the K.  After all, he now had the full control of ComStar's (and, by default, the Star League's) military.  After all the blood they spilled in Operation Bulldog, the Kuritas certainly wouldn't be in a position to argue.  Furthermore, they should have given ALL the Clan Smoke Jaguar salvage to the only Star League Clan, who could properly maintain it and field it.  Destroy TWO Fredasa corvettes just because the Kuritas didn't have the infrastructure?  Uh, what about their "allies", the Nova Cats... who actually DEPLOYED said design?  And don't tell me the Cats couldn't do it.  If they could magically repair two of the ships they "lost" in the ToP for the Rasalhague, as WELL as repairing a Tatsumaki that was supposedly destroyed in Bulldog, they had the ability & know how.  Even after the Jihad, they had enough troops (had they stayed together & not joined the Republic) to "force" the acceptance of them as a new state.  Overall, I just think this whole thing was badly conceived, written, and executed.  But now I've come full circle, so I'll stop.  Thanks for sharing, as always.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 July 2013, 22:18:57
Ironically the clan protectorate is treated as an equal nation. But kurita letting someone else be sovereign? Its not how the company store faction does things. Kurita wouldnt have surrendered rasalhague if they could have helped it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 July 2013, 22:24:49
Ironically the clan protectorate is treated as an equal nation. But kurita letting someone else be sovereign? Its not how the company store faction does things. Kurita wouldnt have surrendered rasalhague if they could have helped it.
Well, that is one reason I'm coming around to being OK with the Spirit Cats and their Sea Fox partners in the Clan Protectorate.  And you are right - it isn't how things are done by Kurita; I just think that the precedent had been set with the Rasalhague joke state and that it should have been forced on them.  Everybody goes on about how things don't change in this universe - that would sure be an example of a strong one!  But all of this is highly biased, of course, and as a Cat fan I can hardly call for this without acknowledging that it would offend a Kurita fan (I assume there are some around here, quiaff?  Although I will say I honestly don't get it).
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 July 2013, 22:57:02
Haha. Kurita fans dont seem very vocal other than tai dai cultist. But I seriously doubt they are thin skinned. Its not like hikagemaru's "are capellans evil?" Ponderings. They know what they are getting into.

Im really excited about getting another spirit cat buddy and semi terrified the ilclan will order the sea foxes to blow up the spirit cats. Its not an intelligent thought or a real concern (though maybe I should watch my mouth on a board with herb) and more of a worst case scenario terror.

Also, spirit cats in stalker IIs would be scary.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 July 2013, 23:08:42
Haha. Kurita fans dont seem very vocal other than tai dai cultist. But I seriously doubt they are thin skinned. Its not like hikagemaru's "are capellans evil?" Ponderings. They know what they are getting into.

Im really excited about getting another spirit cat buddy and semi terrified the ilclan will order the sea foxes to blow up the spirit cats. Its not an intelligent thought or a real concern (though maybe I should watch my mouth on a board with herb) and more of a worst case scenario terror.

Also, spirit cats in stalker IIs would be scary.
Yeah, in truth, most all of them I've met are great folks.  I started a House Kurita - Why? thread to get some idea of the appeal.  And I would say you could call me a Spirit Cat buddy - and no hard feelings if things work out that the Sea Foxes have to flush us.  At least THAT would be an honest, and honorable, ending.  I think that's the hardest thing about losing the Cats for me.  As far as Herbert - he seems to have dialed it back quite a bit.  I had a very nice exchange with him a couple of days ago about irrelevant points that dated to before he was here.  Straight up professional, and answered everything.  Very nice, and hat's off to him.  And - Stalker II's?!?  I may have to get TRO:3145 Marik after all!
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 July 2013, 23:25:46
Haha. I was kidding. I meant the herb thing in the way a player worries about his game master hearing an idea for an evil plot. The setting is obviously a labor of loe and I love what they are doing with the place.

Now me and you can worry about the republic together!  ;D

I like the mercs tro the best because of the sea fox tech. But the fwl has another gorgeous set of battle armor. The leonidas. Two amazing looking fighters and some good looking mechs.

Of course with the regulans and anduriens not being part of the league and some of the equipment coming from their states it can be a bit confusing. Dont have to look had for enemies in the league right now.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 27 July 2013, 23:41:42
Haha. I was kidding. I meant the herb thing in the way a player worries about his game master hearing an idea for an evil plot. The setting is obviously a labor of loe and I love what they are doing with the place.

Now me and you can worry about the republic together!  ;D

I like the mercs tro the best because of the sea fox tech. But the fwl has another gorgeous set of battle armor. The leonidas. Two amazing looking fighters and some good looking mechs.

Of course with the regulans and anduriens not being part of the league and some of the equipment coming from their states it can be a bit confusing. Dont have to look had for enemies in the league right now.
Hmm... when I heard it had no Spirit Cat stuff in it, I didn't think it worth it (after seeing Liao & Davion).  Looks like I'll have to reevaluate that.  And, we can stand side by side against the Republic!  Assuming Vlad Alaric doesn't get them first!
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 28 July 2013, 01:00:15
Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 28 July 2013, 01:22:57
You are good Kamose. You arent attacking writers or anything. Its ok to be upset.

I just finished heretics faith. It didnt really give me the insight that I was looking for. Kisho was a wreck. I was really hoping for some elaboration on the visions kisho and kev had. That novel just ended and they didnt pick up the threads. Except for rikkard in some later novels.

One thing that did strike me about the book is the way the nova cats act. They are very kuritan. Bow to show respect. Use kuritan honorifics and let themselves be bullied.

I dont think clan nova cat survived the second ghost bear war. Whatever is left on those reservations isnt the same. Pretty sad to read. Hopefully an author will pick up those threads on battlecorps. It would be amazing to see the drama.

I wish I could say they died like a clan. Maybe it was seeing their indoctrination to combine culture with the historical analogue revolution. But I think they were a greater casualty to the draconis combine than they know. Ulimately corrupted before being slain.

I think its ironic that the spirit cats looked to the nova cats and doubted themselves. Their actions after grey monday are very much reflective of the clan that joined the star league.

Hmm, yeah, it has no relevance to the discussion at large, but you've hit upon one of the reasons I still consider myself one of the good old Crusader Nova Cats at heart. You know, the ones who handed the ComGuards their heads, with a double portion of pain on the side? Back then, if the Nova Cats lost, we did it in style!

Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.

I wonder how much of that has to do with their connections to the Sea Foxes and the FWL? The Bears got away with it because of the tensions the Cats had with the Dracs throughout that whole mess. I suspect the Wolves are smart enough to not royally piss off both a Successor State as well as a member of the Co6. They're audacious, but they're not Malivina, either.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 28 July 2013, 01:38:58
Hmm, yeah, it has no relevance to the discussion at large, but you've hit upon one of the reasons I still consider myself one of the good old Crusader Nova Cats at heart. You know, the ones who handed the ComGuards their heads, with a double portion of pain on the side? Back then, if the Nova Cats lost, we did it in style!

+1 which is why ill be keeping my Classic OmniMech and insignia
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 28 July 2013, 01:40:25
+1 which is why ill be keeping my Classic OmniMech and insignia

Seyla, trothkin! Seyla.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 28 July 2013, 01:42:32
Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.
Hmm...did not know that, C-21.  I really appreciate you pointing that out.  Guess it mat be worth finishing that dreaded ER:3145 after all.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 28 July 2013, 01:47:48
+1 which is why ill be keeping my Classic OmniMech and insignia
Make that a +2, and I'm keeping my Sphinx!  And my Nova Cat omni!
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 28 July 2013, 03:52:58
Haha. Kurita fans dont seem very vocal other than tai dai cultist. But I seriously doubt they are thin skinned. Its not like hikagemaru's "are capellans evil?" Ponderings. They know what they are getting into.

If you say my name three times into the mirror in a darkened room I leap out and attack you.

But for the Cats living in the Combine.. yeah there were really ultimately only two outcomes.  Become a sub-faction of the Combine in a way like the Azami.. or cease living in the Combine.

Both sides were too proud to bend, and it all ended in tears.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 28 July 2013, 04:11:03
I dare say the Cats were practically on the same level as the Azami during the Dark Age. Their real downfall was that they tried to be kingmakers (Coordinatormaker?) in the world of House Kurita dynastic politics. I can't imagine a more dangerous game to play.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dreyf on 28 July 2013, 07:40:01
Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.

It could also have to do with the Sea Fox presence in the Protectorate.  The Wolves were relying heavily on the foxes for material during and after the creation of the Empire so they may not want to make their supplier too mad.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 28 July 2013, 09:10:03
It could also have to do with the Sea Fox presence in the Protectorate.  The Wolves were relying heavily on the foxes for material during and after the creation of the Empire so they may not want to make their supplier too mad.

Could be that, although when the Wolves speak of the Clan Protectorate, they speak of the Spirit Cats as being in charge (Alaric Ward, Bonfire of Worlds).  It was written into the Wolf-Marik Treaty that they would be allowed to fight trials against the Clan Protectorate, so it might also be a way around the treaty to keep blooding for the Terran invasion.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 30 July 2013, 01:59:13
And why should any sane HW clanner want to invade again, seeing how it all ends in corrupted/poisoned/insane clans?
Because whats the point of keeping the HW clans around and developing their story if there isn't going to be a second invasion?  ;)
Wars of Reaving mentions the possibility and the preparations required for such an undertaking a few times.
i figure the Homeworlders won't be "invading".. they'll be purging. attempting to blast the Sphere to rubble in order to rebuild it into an ideal clan realm. after all, they'd already decided the IS and IS clans didn't warrant zell, and would be subject to no holds barred warfare from the get go.. not much of a leap to them deciding that a "clean slate' is the only way.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 30 July 2013, 18:16:28
Because whats the point of keeping the HW clans around and developing their story if there isn't going to be a second invasion?  ;)
Wars of Reaving mentions the possibility and the preparations required for such an undertaking a few times.

i figure the Homeworlders won't be "invading".. they'll be purging. attempting to blast the Sphere to rubble in order to rebuild it into an ideal clan realm. after all, they'd already decided the IS and IS clans didn't warrant zell, and would be subject to no holds barred warfare from the get go.. not much of a leap to them deciding that a "clean slate' is the only way.

I agree. The way I see it, either the Home Clans will invade bent on purging the entire Sphere, or they'll decide to create their own "ideal" hegemony out of the various Deep Periphery states around them that ultimately will mirror the Inner Sphere in a Clan format. Honestly, the latter one sounds like the more interesting option, as a new invasion will probably spell the end of the Clans as functioning entities altogether (Clan tech & training + unfettered warfare = glass orbs where planets used to be).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 30 July 2013, 18:54:16
I don't actually expect to ever hear from the Homeworlds Clans again

Long term I don't see he remaining a Clans lasting either overall ilClan is goin to be the Clan faction that encompasses all of them that sits with the long term 3250 idea of less factions

If you think 1 Clan, 5 Succession States and maybe a Republic Remnant only 7 factions to concentrate and develop simpler easier to sell that how i see it going maybe I'm wrong but I saw the Nova Cat fall as the first drop of the flood
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 30 July 2013, 19:15:02
I don't actually expect to ever hear from the Homeworlds Clans again

I think we will; the writers won't be able to completely abandon such a potent potential plot (try saying that ten times fast). But when we do, I expect them to be a much more monolithic, singular entity than the current four + Scorpions.


Quote
If you think 1 Clan, 5 Succession States and maybe a Republic Remnant only 7 factions to concentrate and develop simpler easier to sell that how i see it going maybe I'm wrong but I saw the Nova Cat fall as the first drop of the flood
First drop? What about all the Clans that died during the Wars of Reaving? I think we might see one or maybe two more Clans get killed off, but that's it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 30 July 2013, 19:41:02
I see Reaving as the end of the Homeworlds Clans their final huzzah now they are stuck on half the number of worlds they had which were already fluffed as resource poor in 3050.  I think the IS has Zero to worry about them

First drop in the IS sorry should have been clearer as above Reaving was the Homeworlds story.

They way I have read into comments I've seen I see the ilClan being declared after Terras fall.  The ilClan (more than likely Wolves) stating its dominance first targeting the Jade Falcons, Hell's Horses, possibly Clan Protectorate and Exiled Wolves absorbing them all into the ilClan.  The Sea Fox and Bears probably last due to distance and size of those Clan/their territory

You then have the Clan faction - ilClan which appeases the Clan fans.  You like Bears there's one here, a Falcon we have them to...

The Succession States survival is guaranteed by fact that they started the game with them.  Rasalhague/St Ives fell but the Capellans and FWL, Lyrans still stand despite there losses FWL wasnt even unified following Jihad but still mentioned in passing.

Then you may get Republic Remnant which keeps the fans won by the DA interested

Overall it's an easier way to develop a future especially if there's a time jump

I'm speculating massively here and could be completely wrong but it's a train of thought I'm sure has been considered...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 July 2013, 17:59:42
So I've been catching up on the Dark Age novels in what amounts to, "The Order that helps me GM the best."

I finished Heretic's Faith and it didn't do much for me. But, I've just started 'Target of Opportunity' and Kev Rosse's introduction in that book has turned me from "Extremely positive about the Spirit cats" to "Even more extremely positive about the Spirit Cats"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 31 July 2013, 21:32:57
Hmm, yeah, it has no relevance to the discussion at large, but you've hit upon one of the reasons I still consider myself one of the good old Crusader Nova Cats at heart. You know, the ones who handed the ComGuards their heads, with a double portion of pain on the side? Back then, if the Nova Cats lost, we did it in style!
Gotta agree with you, WONC.  This is what made me a fan of the Nova Cats from the start!
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 July 2013, 23:14:46
Pyyric defeats are one of my favorite things in the world. Just because I have to lose doesnt mean you get to win.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 31 July 2013, 23:27:36
Pyyric defeats are one of my favorite things in the world. Just because I have to lose doesnt mean you get to win.
Great point, Kitsune.  The more I look at the Spirit Cats as the successors to the Nova Cats, the more I am looking to seeing how the Clan Protectorate turns out.  Even if the Cats die in the end, the Spirit Cats and the Sea Foxes will make it a stand to remember.
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 July 2013, 23:36:51
The spirit cats are in a good place right now. You cant attack them without taking on the sea foxes and free worlds league. If diamond shark actions during the wars of reaving are any indication thats not much fun. Clan Sea Fox likes zellbrigen when its working in our favor. We also like aerospace support.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 01 August 2013, 07:07:55
So I've been catching up on the Dark Age novels in what amounts to, "The Order that helps me GM the best."

I finished Heretic's Faith and it didn't do much for me. But, I've just started 'Target of Opportunity' and Kev Rosse's introduction in that book has turned me from "Extremely positive about the Spirit cats" to "Even more extremely positive about the Spirit Cats"

Target of Opportunity, Pandora's Gambit, and To Ride the Chimera, alongside Heretic's Faith are all where you'll get to read about the Dark Age Spirit Cats.  Also, if you use the Wayback Machine, you can always go to Wizkids and read the old game campaigns, Spirit Cats had plenty of those and had quite a few short fiction stories.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 01 August 2013, 15:24:37
Also, if you use the Wayback Machine, you can always go to Wizkids and read the old game campaigns, Spirit Cats had plenty of those and had quite a few short fiction stories.

Wayback machine?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 01 August 2013, 15:36:23
    Interesting , will we see Cox Devalis  in Clan Protectorate?

Quote
Wayback machine?

 It is internet archive.

http://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=wayback%20machine&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2F&ei=48b6UejOC-qB4gSN9ICYAQ&usg=AFQjCNGDBmIsvvOxdSeHKKSdQ4FGS1fe6Q&bvm=bv.50165853,d.bGE&cad=rjt
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 02 August 2013, 00:04:20
Wayback machine?
Internet archive.  Google "Wayback Machine" and go to Wizkids.com; you may find more there.  Also, there are some of the files on this site, in the downloads section.  Hope this helps.
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 11:42:29
Hmm. The end of page 18 and the beginning of page 19 in the Era report are interesting. First of all, it always refers to Spirit Cats as 'Cultists' And 'Aspirants'

Second, it says that at Kev Rosse's request that the other Spirit Cats returned to the Nova Cats in Draconis Combine Space.

They are convinced they need to remain separate and pure because Kev was assassinated. This means that Kisho probably will not be going to the Clan Protectorate.

It also means that the Spirit Cats are now quite vastly different.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 09 August 2013, 11:45:33
...This means that Kisho probably will not be going to the Clan Protectorate...

My prediction is he found a way through the Fortress Walls and is reunited with the (former?) Nova Cats absorbed into the Republic.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 09 August 2013, 11:48:05
Nah, there'd be no point in that.

Kisho has gone deep into the black to join the Wolverines in defending against the alien/Tetatae invasion.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 12:25:53
Hard to make a Spirit Cat with ER3145. They only offer Nova Cats from the Draconis Combine affiliation. But the Republic ones haven't been Draconis Combine for 60 years.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 12:26:47
My prediction is he found a way through the Fortress Walls and is reunited with the (former?) Nova Cats absorbed into the Republic.

If he joins up with that Galaxy Of Troops and comes out swinging on the Draconis Combine the Nova Cat fans will go insane...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 09 August 2013, 12:36:59
If he joins up with that Galaxy Of Troops and comes out swinging on the Draconis Combine the Nova Cat fans will go insane...

Basically.

If the walls come down like everyone believes they're about to, pretty much a toss up as to who'd be Republican Enemy Number One.  (well, the only one we can rule out is Steiner)  If they want to take on multiple factions at once, the suriviving/former Nova Cats would be the perfect forces for a Draconis front.

Less probable, but perhaps more interesting would be suriving/former Nova Cats being tasked to the Protectorate front to bring the Spirit Cats back into the fold at gunpoint.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 12:40:40
Less probable, but perhaps more interesting would be suriving/former Nova Cats being tasked to the Protectorate front to bring the Spirit Cats back into the fold at gunpoint.

I think that Jumpships done Jumped already.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 13:16:16
Sounds like the Spirit Cats will get some coverage in the Era Digest that's coming out. After I figured out the right question to ask the writers.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 09 August 2013, 18:09:08
Hmm. The end of page 18 and the beginning of page 19 in the Era report are interesting. First of all, it always refers to Spirit Cats as 'Cultists' And 'Aspirants'

Second, it says that at Kev Rosse's request that the other Spirit Cats returned to the Nova Cats in Draconis Combine Space.

They are convinced they need to remain separate and pure because Kev was assassinated. This means that Kisho probably will not be going to the Clan Protectorate.

It also means that the Spirit Cats are now quite vastly different.

 In another section sad that not all spirit cat answer to this call. Some travel to Clan Protectorat , some stay and defend RoTS.  I think the Spirit Cats are now 2-3 clusters of native cats (1 full (4-5 trinary) that atack Marik world , another one  joined later and may be some Nova cat survivors in third ( guards from merchant fleet for example ).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 19:42:16

 In another section sad that not all spirit cat answer to this call. Some travel to Clan Protectorat , some stay and defend RoTS.  I think the Spirit Cats are now 2-3 clusters of native cats (1 full (4-5 trinary) that atack Marik world , another one  joined later and may be some Nova cat survivors in third ( guards from merchant fleet for example ).

Rikkard arrived at the end of September with a cluster of Spirit Cats. They secure the world at the very beginning of June. So in the middle of that seven month slugging match he figured out that the Orient Protectorate wasn't going to get his back. Then that Kev Rosse wasn't either.

So he gave up honor for the survival of his clan and the Sea Foxes came down and secured the world with them. Then they invited all the other Spirit Cats to join up. But Kev Rosse apparently had decided to join back up with the Nova Cats. Or at least, he died, and his trinary joined Kisho. So why not everyone else?

The Spirit Cats had a Galaxy of troops to begin with. But they got pretty beaten up in the fighting. It does sound like not very many responded.

I'd guess they probably had enough to rebuild their Cluster of true believers though. I wonder where Cox Devalis ended up. That guy is boss.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 August 2013, 21:52:59
Hmm. The Draconis Combine killed our supplier of Shadowhawk and Griffin battlemechs.

I know that the Random Assignment Tables aren't meant to be an end all be all of inventory that the clans have available. Or even the most likely. They're just a game aid.

But I'm always confused on how mechs we produce are less likely to be found fielded by us than other factions.

Maybe its not as strange as I think. But we don't field any Vulture IV's!
Clan Snow Raven and Clan Ghost Bear are far more likely to field Savage Wolfs than us. (Cha-Ching!)

The Mad Cat Mk II is one of the ghost bears primary battlemechs!

(Also of note, We don't sell anything to Clan Jade Falcon! The only thing that might be traced back to us is are Griffin IIC's. So there is a chance its a Griffin IIC we bought from the nova cats, refitted, then sold to them... and a better chance that it isn't! Odds of them getting from Clan Cobras seem pretty slim. Could just be leftovers though.)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 09 August 2013, 22:25:22
The info on where all the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats went between 3137-3143 is kind of up in the air.  We know some (Spirit Cats and Nova Cats) made their way to the Clan Protectorate, some (Nova Cats) made their way back to Clan Nova Cat in the DC, some Spirit Cats fought tenaciously against CNC and the DC as they invaded, and that some Nova Cat enclaves (And Spirit Cats) got stuck behind the Fortress Walls (like the Spirit Cats on Outreach.  I like to guess 2 full clusters of Spirit Cats warriors are in the Clan Protectorate, plus a bunch of Officers who make up the commanders of the two Protectorate Guardian Clusters.  Maybe four total clusters of warriors, in addition to the tens of thousands of possible lower caste-people now living on Marik (a drop in the bucket compared to the I.S. population on that planet)?

Then there is Kisho floating around with his warriors, civilians, and genetic repository backups  8) .  One can hope.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 10 August 2013, 00:10:45
Judging by era report 3145 it doesnt sound like spirit cats are taking nova cats after kev rosse died.

And I used to be the biggest proponent of "spirit cats are just nova cats"

But I dont think its crazy to think kisho made it into the fortress.

I wouldnt worry about the genetics. They have scientist castemen. Their doctors are present in the novels and they have the clan that built most of the genetics equipment on world with them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 10 August 2013, 00:55:41
Judging by era report 3145 it doesnt sound like spirit cats are taking nova cats after kev rosse died.

And I used to be the biggest proponent of "spirit cats are just nova cats"

But I dont think its crazy to think kisho made it into the fortress.

I wouldnt worry about the genetics. They have scientist castemen. Their doctors are present in the novels and they have the clan that built most of the genetics equipment on world with them.

The Spirit Cats followed their hearts, just like Nova Cat tradition emphasizes. They're something different now, which is fine. Given their size, I could easily see the Spirit Cats getting subsumed into the Sea Foxes at some future point. They're feisty, but their size keeps them reliant on the Foxes for a lot of infrastructure, as well as acting as a brake for bigger powers trying to take them (looking at you, Alaric). I'm not saying the Cats couldn't survive if given enough time and support, but as fast as things are changing in the current timeline, it makes me wonder.

Still, I don't have any illusions that my Clan is dead, or that Kisho's group will either end up never being heard from again or simply become consumed by some other power. If, somehow, I get thrown some sort of Battletech karmic bone, the walls come down and a galaxy or so of Nova Cats take a bite out of the Combine. With my luck though, the walls will drop and it'll be revealed that all the Cats living inside died in a collective yarn ball accident. Or by tripping up the stairs. I'm easy about it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 10 August 2013, 05:12:01
Rikkard arrived at the end of September with a cluster of Spirit Cats. They secure the world at the very beginning of June. So in the middle of that seven month slugging match he figured out that the Orient Protectorate wasn't going to get his back. Then that Kev Rosse wasn't either.

So he gave up honor for the survival of his clan and the Sea Foxes came down and secured the world with them. Then they invited all the other Spirit Cats to join up. But Kev Rosse apparently had decided to join back up with the Nova Cats. Or at least, he died, and his trinary joined Kisho. So why not everyone else?

The Spirit Cats had a Galaxy of troops to begin with. But they got pretty beaten up in the fighting. It does sound like not very many responded.

I'd guess they probably had enough to rebuild their Cluster of true believers though. I wonder where Cox Devalis ended up. That guy is boss.
Who is Cox Devalis, and where is he described?
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 August 2013, 06:12:46
Who is Cox Devalis, and where is he described?
Thanks,
Kamose

He was a Spirit Cat Star Captain mentioned in the book "Target of Opportunity."
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 10 August 2013, 08:24:12
Oh. Oops. That random assignment table post was meant for the diamond shark thread. Sorry guys
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 10 August 2013, 09:25:33
Quote from: Kitsune413
Judging by era report 3145 it doesnt sound like spirit cats are taking nova cats after kev rosse died.

Era Report says that they refuse the message to return to the fold and stick to themselves, not that they turn away any incoming Nova Cats.  Remember, although they call themselves Spirit Cats, they still consider themselves Nova Cats.  In To Ride the Chimera, the delegation Rikkard leads to Oriente is called the "Clan Nova Cat Delegation".  If a bunch of Nova Cat warriors and other castemen showed up over Marik one day, I feel like they would be accepted.

Also, Roosterboy mentioned that the Spirit Cats accepted the Nova Cat enclaves located in the closer Prefectures of the Republic to them (VI, VII, VIII), so there's no bias to other Nova Cats.  The Spirit Cats just wanted to go their own way; the Nova Cat alliance with House Kurita was a dead end.

Quote
I wouldnt worry about the genetics. They have scientist castemen. Their doctors are present in the novels and they have the clan that built most of the genetics equipment on world with them.

True.

The Spirit Cats followed their hearts, just like Nova Cat tradition emphasizes. They're something different now, which is fine. Given their size, I could easily see the Spirit Cats getting subsumed into the Sea Foxes at some future point. They're feisty, but their size keeps them reliant on the Foxes for a lot of infrastructure, as well as acting as a brake for bigger powers trying to take them (looking at you, Alaric). I'm not saying the Cats couldn't survive if given enough time and support, but as fast as things are changing in the current timeline, it makes me wonder.

From the picture 3145 paints, the Spirit Cats are doing most of the heavy lifting in the Clan Protectorate.  They staff the Protectorate Guardian Clusters with almost all the officers, they hold Marik as their own planet outright, etc.  The Sea Foxes meanwhile are mostly concerned with the trading aspect in the Protectorate.  Furthermore, with Rikkard and Petr's 'friendship', I don't see an absorption as likely.

Kev Rosse's original goal with the Spirit Cats was to return them to something closer to what the Nova Cats once were; an independent strong Clan that followed its visions.  The Clan Nova Cat of their day was largely vision-less, dominated by the Kesari faction, and holding onto life on reservations guarded by the Draconis Combine.  The Spirit Cats are essentially a return to the old, although they did become a part of the FWL, which might violate Kev Rosse's original precept of making no alliances with Inner Sphere powers.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 10 August 2013, 09:43:13
I Also figured they would accept any nova cats back into the fold. But one of the sentences in er 3145 makes me wonder. It says they decide to remain pure after kev rosses death. Ill quote it when I get home.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 10 August 2013, 10:38:55
Also, Roosterboy mentioned that the Spirit Cats accepted the Nova Cat enclaves located in the closer Prefectures of the Republic to them (VI, VII, VIII), so there's no bias to other Nova Cats.  The Spirit Cats just wanted to go their own way; the Nova Cat alliance with House Kurita was a dead end.

I believe I said I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I'm fairly sure I didn't state it definitively because anything not yet published is basically unknown.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 10 August 2013, 13:50:10
He was a Spirit Cat Star Captain mentioned in the book "Target of Opportunity."
Thanks, Jaim
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 10 August 2013, 15:48:36
I believe I said I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I'm fairly sure I didn't state it definitively because anything not yet published is basically unknown.

Ah sorry about that then. :/

Quote from: Kitsune413
I Also figured they would accept any nova cats back into the fold. But one of the sentences in er 3145 makes me wonder. It says they decide to remain pure after kev rosses death. Ill quote it when I get home.

Well, one can remain "pure" while also allowing others to join them.  The Spirit Cats didn't want to join back up with Jacali Nostra's Nova Cats, but that doesn't mean other Nova Cats can't 'see the light' and come join up on Marik. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 10 August 2013, 20:28:52
Basically.

If the walls come down like everyone believes they're about to, pretty much a toss up as to who'd be Republican Enemy Number One.  (well, the only one we can rule out is Steiner)  If they want to take on multiple factions at once, the suriviving/former Nova Cats would be the perfect forces for a Draconis front
I suspect the CC would be their biggest target, honestly. Kick them out as brutally as possible, and then see if they cant convince the rest of them to give up quietly. Considering some of them were fairly vocal about doing it to 'help the Republic', it'd be gauche to not honor a polite request to do so.

Although I expect the DC will probably need convincing.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 10 August 2013, 20:47:51
I suspect the CC would be their biggest target, honestly. Kick them out as brutally as possible, and then see if they cant convince the rest of them to give up quietly. Considering some of them were fairly vocal about doing it to 'help the Republic', it'd be gauche to not honor a polite request to do so.

Although I expect the DC will probably need convincing.

I disagree. In the introduction to Technical Readout 3145: The Capellan Confederation, Janella Lakewood names the Confederation as the Republic's most dangerous enemy after the Clans. The Capellans are serious business, but the Wolves and Falcons, especially with their current leadership, are a much more urgent existential threat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 10 August 2013, 21:13:02
I disagree. In the introduction to Technical Readout 3145: The Capellan Confederation, Janella Lakewood names the Confederation as the Republic's most dangerous enemy after the Clans. The Capellans are serious business, but the Wolves and Falcons, especially with their current leadership, are a much more urgent existential threat.

Clearly, this means the Cappies need to step up their game!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 11 August 2013, 10:53:16
Clearly, this means the Cappies need to step up their Crazy!


 Fixed that for you ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 11 August 2013, 11:02:37
Well, Shark Foxes and Cat survivors will now be neighbors of the crazy incarnate, whether or not they step it up. 

Goodbye, cruel Kerensky Cluster... 

Hello, XIN SHENG!   ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 11 August 2013, 11:13:41
They thought the fire mandrills were crazy, but in the words of ol jack,"Wait till they get a load of me!" and by load they mean -lots- of artillery and mines.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 11 August 2013, 13:49:00
Well, Shark Foxes and Cat survivors will now be neighbors of the crazy incarnate, whether or not they step it up. 

Goodbye, cruel Kerensky Cluster... 

Hello, XIN SHENG!   ;D

A Shark Fox/Cappie/Cat Alliance...now THERE'S something I'd like to see at work!   ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 11 August 2013, 21:19:05
Might as well call it the Spanish Inquisition.  No one expects it.   :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 11 August 2013, 22:18:42
They thought the fire mandrills were crazy, but in the words of ol jack,"Wait till they get a load of me!" and by load they mean -lots- of artillery and mines.

Hey now, the Mandrills weren't crazy. Well, not all of them. Just the ones in power.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 August 2013, 22:32:02

Well, one can remain "pure" while also allowing others to join them.  The Spirit Cats didn't want to join back up with Jacali Nostra's Nova Cats, but that doesn't mean other Nova Cats can't 'see the light' and come join up on Marik. :)

Pure yes. But it says seperate and pure. Which makes me wonder.

Im personally not against it. But I think the cata in marik might suspect the other cats of rosse's death.

I really like the spirit cats. They are like distilled nova cats. The tattoos. The piercings. The spirit reverence and the visions really make them what the nova cats could have been.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 11 August 2013, 22:41:38
Maybe the novacats should have moved to Eugene oregon instead of the FWL, they would have fit in with our hippys  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 August 2013, 22:45:57
Maybe the novacats should have moved to Eugene oregon instead of the FWL, they would have fit in with our hippys  ;D

They love campfires. They are pushing a native american aesthetic hard. Its a good fit. However. They are still violent clansmen.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 11 August 2013, 22:51:10
*snickers* So are some of our hippys  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 August 2013, 23:11:23
Considering their new supplier spirit cats are going to have mountains of mad cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: SteveRestless on 14 August 2013, 15:37:38
Considering their new supplier spirit cats are going to have mountains of mad cats.

New Supplier?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 14 August 2013, 16:42:53
New Supplier?

Sorry. Wrote it on my phone. The Spirit Cats have the collective funds of the protectorate, live on a world that the sea foxes will build out factories on because its backed by the free worlds league.

So the spirit cats are going to be stacked with savage wolves, vulture iv's and warhammer iic's
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 14 August 2013, 21:58:18
Sorry. Wrote it on my phone. The Spirit Cats have the collective funds of the protectorate, live on a world that the sea foxes will build out factories on because its backed by the free worlds league.

So the spirit cats are going to be stacked with savage wolves, vulture iv's and warhammer iic's

"Okay, the Spirit Cats are attacking us with one Cluster.  It is entirely Warhammer IICs.  And there's a Shark Fox with a T-shirt that says 'Dibs on his stuff' on it."

"WE SURRENDER!"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 14 August 2013, 22:54:38
Im really expecting the league to become the sea fox home base. (Other than the isles) its the only place where a stellar empire will back us up if attacked. Protectorates are good business.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 14 August 2013, 23:01:16
Im really expecting the league to become the sea fox home base. (Other than the isles) its the only place where a stellar empire will back us up if attacked. Protectorates are good business.

I like to think we have a giant manufacturing annex in the Isles.  Preferably making some "extinctish" designs, like the Mongrendel, the Ebon Jaguar, and various Steel Viper Mechs.

Well, that and our Pizza R&D center.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 14 August 2013, 23:05:03
Im really expecting the league to become the sea fox home base. (Other than the isles) its the only place where a stellar empire will back us up if attacked. Protectorates are good business.
I like your way of thinking, Kitsune... this has gotten me even more excited about the Spirit Cats and the Clan Protectorate in general.  In essence, the Sea Foxes get a free world to base from, without the hassles of governing, taxing, maintaining, or garrisoning it.  In exchange, the Cats get a refuge for their people, membership in a sovereign nation that is NOT the Republic (and is gaining its strength), plus a supplier of premium armaments and the promise of military aid from the Foxes as well.  Nicely done, my friend.  Your Clan bids well!
Cheers,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 14 August 2013, 23:07:36
I like to think we have a giant manufacturing annex in the Isles.  Preferably making some "extinctish" designs, like the Mongrendel, the Ebon Jaguar, and various Steel Viper Mechs.

Well, that and our Pizza R&D center.
Pizza?  I thought your bargain was for a Denny's on Twycross.  Does this mean more Trials of Posession for Pizza?
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 14 August 2013, 23:13:04
Pizza?  I thought your bargain was for a Denny's on Twycross.  Does this mean more Trials of Posession for Pizza?
Regards,
Kamose

Josh Steiner-Davion has the Denny's on Twycross.  I can't remember why pizza came up in the Shark Foxes thread, but I'm almost positive it wasn't ENTIRELY my fault this time.  But the Shark Foxes shall be the most bitching pizza chain in all of existence.  Aerospace Pizza Delivery (imagine trying to bilk THEM out of a tip), superior Clan Sciencetoppings, it's gonna be awesome!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 14 August 2013, 23:13:26
I like your way of thinking, Kitsune... this has gotten me even more excited about the Spirit Cats and the Clan Protectorate in general.  In essence, the Sea Foxes get a free world to base from, without the hassles of governing, taxing, maintaining, or garrisoning it.  In exchange, the Cats get a refuge for their people, membership in a sovereign nation that is NOT the Republic (and is gaining its strength), plus a supplier of premium armaments and the promise of military aid from the Foxes as well.  Nicely done, my friend.  Your Clan bids well!
Cheers,
Kamose

Another fun fact is that rikkard nova cat learned from ian davions ghost to sacrifice his honor to protect his people.

Petr kalasa learned to care about all of his people the hard way.

They are fast friends. But I like the basis of the relationship.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 14 August 2013, 23:16:50
Josh Steiner-Davion has the Denny's on Twycross.  I can't remember why pizza came up in the Shark Foxes thread, but I'm almost positive it wasn't ENTIRELY my fault this time.  But the Shark Foxes shall be the most bitching pizza chain in all of existence.  Aerospace Pizza Delivery (imagine trying to bilk THEM out of a tip), superior Clan Sciencetoppings, it's gonna be awesome!

And we share a world with the ex samurai spirit (pizza) cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 14 August 2013, 23:17:39
And we share a world with the ex samurai spirit (pizza) cats.

That's clearly a sign if there ever was one!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 14 August 2013, 23:52:58
Josh Steiner-Davion has the Denny's on Twycross.  I can't remember why pizza came up in the Shark Foxes thread, but I'm almost positive it wasn't ENTIRELY my fault this time.  But the Shark Foxes shall be the most bitching pizza chain in all of existence.  Aerospace Pizza Delivery (imagine trying to bilk THEM out of a tip), superior Clan Sciencetoppings, it's gonna be awesome!

How does an ASF pick up the tip?  Fulton surface-to-air recovery system?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 14 August 2013, 23:53:54
Josh Steiner-Davion has the Denny's on Twycross.  I can't remember why pizza came up in the Shark Foxes thread, but I'm almost positive it wasn't ENTIRELY my fault this time.  But the Shark Foxes shall be the most bitching pizza chain in all of existence.  Aerospace Pizza Delivery (imagine trying to bilk THEM out of a tip), superior Clan Sciencetoppings, it's gonna be awesome!

Hmm, I'd thought the SharkFoxes would've gone with some kind of orbital bombardment delivery system. Hot and fresh under 30 seconds or you're dead!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 14 August 2013, 23:59:18
Hmm, I'd thought the SharkFoxes would've gone with some kind of orbital bombardment delivery system. Hot and fresh under 30 seconds or you're dead!

That's for orders of 30 pizzas or more.

Yes, that does happen.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 15 August 2013, 01:34:20
Hey, the Claws of the Ghost can put some deep dish away, man.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 08:44:58
http://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf
 (http://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf)

Deadborder posted this over in the Nova Cat page.

For those interested in the Spirit Cats it has a lot of Spirit Cat warriors. Read them all and you get a bigger picture of the faction. Keep in mind the 'Purifiers' which are the really, really spiritual ones are the ones that conquered Marik.

Edit: They still do the Solahma thing, but they're far more tolerant of older warriors. Spirit Quest a lot.

Second Edit: The first Sea Fox you run into in those dossiers is called 'The Snake' and leaves a bit to be desired.
Third Edit: Though the second one calls the notion that Clan Sea Fox has lost its edge, 'out dated' so I suppose a lot of the clans that thought we were more merchant than warrior learned a bitter lesson.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 15 August 2013, 09:55:10
The Purifiers were a cluster in the Spirit Cat Touman, but Rikkard's force to Marik had more than just Purifiers in it.  He himself was the Star Colonel of the Shiva Keshik Cluster.  I think he actually managed to gather up a majority of the Spirit Cats for taking the planet, and had a bit of every cluster there.

I own most of those dossiers myself.  Always fun to reread them all. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 15 August 2013, 09:56:34
Keep in mind the 'Purifiers' which are the really, really spiritual ones are the ones that conquered Marik.

It was actually a mix from the three clusters. Rikkard Nova Cat, for instance, was not a Purifier.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 09:56:53
The Purifiers were a cluster in the Spirit Cat Touman, but Rikkard's force to Marik had more than just Purifiers in it.  He himself was the Star Colonel of the Shiva Keshik Cluster.  I think he actually managed to gather up a majority of the Spirit Cats for taking the planet, and had a bit of every cluster there.

I own most of those dossiers myself.  Always fun to reread them all. :)

Are you sticking to the clickytech? Or considering expanding into classic battletech with the new 3145 stuff?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 09:59:22
It was actually a mix from the three clusters. Rikkard Nova Cat, for instance, was not a Purifier.

Ahh. I was going off of Janis, who was with him. I had read his dossier, but didn't notice he was part of the Shiva Keshik.

Omicron sounds like they're spoiling the party! Also was surprised he piloted a FireStarter. Having blown up one recently I didn't think much of the design, but that could have been a fluke.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 15 August 2013, 10:02:13
Are you sticking to the clickytech? Or considering expanding into classic battletech with the new 3145 stuff?

Probably a bit more appropriate to a PM, but I don't know.  Definitely will keep up on the story.  I may look into Alpha Strike, which is supposed to eventually get to 3145, but right now I'm just trying to get a hardy group of clix players back together and showing up regularly.  Probably need to find some CBT players in the area already if I wanted to really learn that one. :D

On other more related news, I'm thinking of making a unique Shadow Hawk IIC for Rikkard in clix fashion.  Just got to get my hands of a worthless Shadow Hawk mech from the FP expansion and I'll be good to go.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 10:19:59
While I'm quoting a novel, a quote relevant to our current discussion here.

Quote from: Petr Kalasa
“This is a transaction, an investment in the future,” Petr said, reminding his friend of ground they had covered. “For the Clan Protectorate to flourish, the Free Worlds League must be strong. Though there is no tangible return in the short run, our Clans and the worlds we protect are best served through this action.”
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 15 August 2013, 16:47:32
Out of curiosity what Bloodhouse was Rikkard if it was ever mentioned?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 August 2013, 16:49:50
Out of curiosity what Bloodhouse was Rikkard if it was ever mentioned?

I don't believe it was ever mentioned.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 15 August 2013, 17:02:07
Never mentioned, my guess is either West or Lossey though., since we had so few of them in the Dark Age.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 15 August 2013, 17:23:26
A Clanner with no mentioned bloodhouse... the DA really was messed up  :))

A MechWarrior so I'll guess not West they were generally Elementals
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 17:44:07
Isn't anyone with the surname Nova Cat a freeborn?  I could have sworn that was the case, though perhaps not in the Nova Cats.  Or perhaps Abtakha
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 17:45:00
Isn't anyone with the surname Nova Cat a freeborn?  I could have sworn that was the case, though perhaps not in the Nova Cats.

Everyone's Surname is Nova Cat until they win a blood name.

Edit: In Clan Nova Cat.

I wonder about the Abtakha thing. If you get Sonia Sea Fox from Clan Sea Fox into the Spirit Cats, is she still Sonia Sea Fox?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 17:45:51
Ahhh, thanks for the clarification.

edit:  Yeah, I was following that part ;) 





I guess I was thinking of the infamous Elson Nova Cat from the novel Wolfpack
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 17:49:51
I wonder about the Abtakha thing. If you get Sonia Sea Fox from Clan Sea Fox into the Spirit Cats, is she still Sonia Sea Fox?

Bingo. The Adoption ceremony, you are named for the Clan.  Because abatakha and freeborns are seen as outsiders, I would venture to guess. 

But not sure in this case.  Nova Cats are not normal...   errrr, not Clan normal.  Neither are the Foxes, so it's all good, but just sayin'  :) 

Edit: Unblooded abtakha, Bloodnamed abtakha probably get a cooler ceremony. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 17:53:28
Well there can also be confusion about naming conventions because Jaime Wolf and his brother both had the last name Wolf.

But the unit dossiers for Dark Ages have quite a few warriors whose last names are Nova Cat that also happen to be trueborn. For whatever reason its becoming more common to call them by that though. Maybe because they're so deeply entranced in the Inner Sphere now.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 18:17:35
Phelan was renamed Wolf as well.  And Elson Nova Cat was a freeborn Elemental taken at the battle of Luthien.  He refused to accept the name Wolf, iirc.  So I assume freeborns indeed serve in all the Clans present, and often have important roles. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 18:24:41
Phelan was renamed Wolf as well.  And Elson Nova Cat was a freeborn Elemental taken at the battle of Luthien.  He refused to accept the name Wolf, iirc.  So I assume freeborns indeed serve in all the Clans present, and often have important roles.

In similar news.

In 'The Clans' TRO there is a MechWarrior Vittoria who failed her exam as a warrior and managed to retest as a vehicle pilot. Which was news to me. Before that I hadn't seen any canon evidence that Clan Sea Fox allowed its warriors to retest like some other clans did.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 18:26:41
In similar news.

In 'The Clans' TRO there is a MechWarrior Vittoria who failed her exam as a warrior and managed to retest as a vehicle pilot. Which was news to me. Before that I hadn't seen any canon evidence that Clan Sea Fox allowed its warriors to retest like some other clans did.

Hopefully this change is detailed soon.   It makes sense.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 18:27:59
Hopefully this change is detailed soon.   It makes sense.

Maybe in the field manual. But its got a lot of fluff to cover and the Field Manuals about your only way to get extra faction fluff these days.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 18:30:06
Oh how we've changed, the deeper the Clans penetrate into the Inner Sphere.   

Somewhere, Ulric Kerensky is laughing at everyone.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 18:39:17
Oh how we've changed, the deeper the Clans penetrate into the Inner Sphere.   

Somewhere, Ulric Kerensky is laughing at everyone.

Well. They've changed. I think we just got more efficient. We were already Clan, "We Appreciate you Labor Caste!" and, "Lets keep those Omni-Mechs on the down low" "Absorb them? What did they ever do to us?" and, "Lets invade the Inner Sphere so we can trade with them!"

The more you look at Clan Sea Fox the more bizarre it always was.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 August 2013, 18:44:53
I'd like to know how the Chatterweb is doing. Wonder if we can take it Sphere Wide...

Holy. Crap.

We bought Comstar things...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 15 August 2013, 18:55:12
Well there can also be confusion about naming conventions because Jaime Wolf and his brother both had the last name Wolf.

But the unit dossiers for Dark Ages have quite a few warriors whose last names are Nova Cat that also happen to be trueborn. For whatever reason its becoming more common to call them by that though. Maybe because they're so deeply entranced in the Inner Sphere now.

Jamie and Joshua got a special dispensation for their names - in effect the Wolf at the end of their name is a Bloodname by order of the ilKhan at the time IIRC purely so they would have enough authority to hold onto their position over the time away from the Clans.  If they had returned it would have been interesting to see how that was stepped around... carefully I think

The Wolf's Dragoons adopted this policy with their "Honour names" being carried on through the generations.  But there are few "Wolf" because the Dragoons hold them apart for Jamie and Joshua in memory

If you look you will see many Wolves named Wolf as well, but you will see few in other Clans, this is mainly because the Wolves and Nova Cats are two of the more liberal Clans and allow warriors to show their skill bloodnamed or not unlike the Falcons which see the Bloodname as the ultimate and most important symbol.

Phelan was renamed Wolf as well.  And Elson Nova Cat was a freeborn Elemental taken at the battle of Luthien.  He refused to accept the name Wolf, iirc.  So I assume freeborns indeed serve in all the Clans present, and often have important roles. 

Phelan was captured by Clan Wolf so he became Phelan Wolf.  Elson as you mentioned held more loyalty to the Nova Cats than the Dragoons so he kept his Clan's name I think purely to spite the Dragoons.

IIRC all unbloodnamed Warriors, true or free, whatever their Clan are named after their Clan as it is the only way to distinguish where they are from.  The Clans themselves don't really give a crap if they have a Clan name or not because it's not a Bloodname and so not important, or a true surname.

Warriors freeborn or true adopted into their Clan should lose their surname (if Inner Sphere freeborn - like Phelan), adopt their new Clan's name or retain their Bloodname as the Bloodname stands above any bond or rank.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 19:04:30
I'd like to know how the Chatterweb is doing. Wonder if we can take it Sphere Wide...

Holy. Crap.

We bought Comstar things...

Yep.  We're getting all set to reach out and touch someone with a communications industry turn.  :) 

I know the chatterweb in the Homeworlds is toast.  No need to pretend like we like those n00bs in their awkward hyper-monitored chatrooms, anyway.   But we could always fire it up in the FWL and have the true free chatterweb.  It makes total sense. 

Well. They've changed. I think we just got more efficient. We were already Clan, "We Appreciate you Labor Caste!" and, "Lets keep those Omni-Mechs on the down low" "Absorb them? What did they ever do to us?" and, "Lets invade the Inner Sphere so we can trade with them!"

The more you look at Clan Sea Fox the more bizarre it always was.

It's not any single Clan, It is all of them.  As foretold by the master of all things past and present and yet to be, Ulric of the Wolves. 

That we have always been Clan Liberal Interpretation, of course is the true heart of our being.  Trade is simply the easiest way to facilitate and fuel the Clan war machine.  :)   We're Shark Foxes, and we have an historic love for creating truly new modes of culture, something the hawkheads and furry clans don't always busy themselves with.  That's my take. 

edit: Nova Cats excepted, though they be furry too  :))
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 15 August 2013, 19:19:47
Jamie and Joshua got a special dispensation for their names - in effect the Wolf at the end of their name is a Bloodname by order of the ilKhan at the time IIRC purely so they would have enough authority to hold onto their position over the time away from the Clans.  If they had returned it would have been interesting to see how that was stepped around... carefully I think

The Wolf's Dragoons adopted this policy with their "Honour names" being carried on through the generations.  But there are few "Wolf" because the Dragoons hold them apart for Jamie and Joshua in memory

If you look you will see many Wolves named Wolf as well, but you will see few in other Clans, this is mainly because the Wolves and Nova Cats are two of the more liberal Clans and allow warriors to show their skill bloodnamed or not unlike the Falcons which see the Bloodname as the ultimate and most important symbol.

Phelan was captured by Clan Wolf so he became Phelan Wolf.  Elson as you mentioned held more loyalty to the Nova Cats than the Dragoons so he kept his Clan's name I think purely to spite the Dragoons.

IIRC all unbloodnamed Warriors, true or free, whatever their Clan are named after their Clan as it is the only way to distinguish where they are from.  The Clans themselves don't really give a crap if they have a Clan name or not because it's not a Bloodname and so not important, or a true surname.

Warriors freeborn or true adopted into their Clan should lose their surname (if Inner Sphere freeborn - like Phelan), adopt their new Clan's name or retain their Bloodname as the Bloodname stands above any bond or rank.

I felt that a captured bloodnamed warrior represents new blood for the breeding program much of the time.  Provided they are worthy of that by years of service.  Freeborns surnames are obviously not that same, as you pointed out. 

As for Elson, he indeed did do it to spite the Wolf Dragoons for what he felt was a mockery of Clan ways by a degenerate and traitorous force.  And I think I remember he was surprised and a bit let down even when no one really cared all that much and welcomed him into the Dragoons anyway. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 15 August 2013, 19:37:27
Jamie and Joshua got a special dispensation for their names - in effect the Wolf at the end of their name is a Bloodname by order of the ilKhan at the time IIRC purely so they would have enough authority to hold onto their position over the time away from the Clans.  If they had returned it would have been interesting to see how that was stepped around... carefully I think

They were promised "Wolf" would become a Bloodname if they successfully completed the Dragoon mission. That kinda went out the window when they turned against the Clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 16 August 2013, 03:19:36
They were promised "Wolf" would become a Bloodname if they successfully completed the Dragoon mission. That kinda went out the window when they turned against the Clans.

I couldn't remember what the agreement was thanks
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 August 2013, 12:37:20
Figured I'd post this here, because then Nova Cats and Sea Foxes see it.

The Thunderbird Battle Armor is supposed to be Nova Cat exclusive and on the RAT for the Draconis Combine it doesn't even show up.

But it shows up in the Clan Sea Fox RAT as 7. Once again, I know that these RATS don't mean a whole lot. But that's the most common result on 2d6. (also that armor is gorgeous)

Built on Barcella on Irece so it was where the Nova Cat last stand happened. Wondering if they're suits we bid from the Draconis Combine or if we can make the things.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 16 August 2013, 12:43:32
Is the better question why would you want to?  Sea Foxes have the resources to make quality BA.  Leave the low tech stuff to those chumps in the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 August 2013, 13:10:27
Is the better question why would you want to?  Sea Foxes have the resources to make quality BA.  Leave the low tech stuff to those chumps in the Inner Sphere.

Not sure. We could equip our freeborns from the Chainelines with it if its cheaper. Its still clan spec equipment. And it looks better...

Not sure why Clan Sea Fox doesn't do more with Battle Armor. Their scientists are on a rampage and they got the elemental blood lines from the horses so we've always had good elementals. But have just kind of stuck with the basic elemental suit. We build the medium battle armor too.

Oh well, guess I just like the look and am curious about the Nova Cat equipment.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 16 August 2013, 13:13:59
The Thunderbird isn't a bad suit.  It's a heavy trying to do a medium's job, but it's not bad by any means.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 August 2013, 14:32:16
Is the better question why would you want to?  Sea Foxes have the resources to make quality BA.  Leave the low tech stuff to those chumps in the Inner Sphere.

Or just sell it to the dirty spheroids ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 16 August 2013, 14:56:44
I'd have to be reminded what the BA LBX does to fully condemn it.  Otherwise, you're only going to impress Sphereoids with no access to other clan BA.  The novels give the impression that even Gnomes can be bought by militia forces.  My guess is that we're in another "anything will do" phase.  But in the long term I'd take something domestically produced when the Thunderbird is that lacklustre.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 16 August 2013, 15:29:12
I'd have to be reminded what the BA LBX does to fully condemn it.  Otherwise, you're only going to impress Sphereoids with no access to other clan BA.  The novels give the impression that even Gnomes can be bought by militia forces.  My guess is that we're in another "anything will do" phase.  But in the long term I'd take something domestically produced when the Thunderbird is that lacklustre.

BA LBX?  Is there a gnome config with it?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 16 August 2013, 22:28:49
Well if the Gencon rumor that Kisho and his band of Nova Cats are dead, then all that is left of the Nova Cat tradition is truly in the hands of the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate.  We are the last, true inheritors of our Clan.  May our people grow strong on Marik, safe under the watchful gaze of our warriors.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 16 August 2013, 22:44:14
Or just sell it to the dirty spheroids ;)

I was about to say, I'm sure there's some schmuck we can sell it to.   ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 17 August 2013, 09:06:18
Well if the Gencon rumor that Kisho and his band of Nova Cats are dead, then all that is left of the Nova Cat tradition is truly in the hands of the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate.  We are the last, true inheritors of our Clan.  May our people grow strong on Marik, safe under the watchful gaze of our warriors.

Seyla. We are with you.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nova Cain on 17 August 2013, 09:40:09
So this is where the Nova Cat remnants check in?  My Wendigo needs repairs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 17 August 2013, 09:41:52
So this is where the Nova Cat remnants check in?  My Wendigo needs repairs.

Welcome aboard. We are thrilled to have you... and won some spare wendigos from the dracs. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 17 August 2013, 10:12:59
So this is where the Nova Cat remnants check in?  My Wendigo needs repairs.

Wendigo pft poor mans Shadow Cat
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Knightmare on 17 August 2013, 12:46:13
Wendigo pft poor mans Shadow Cat

You mean the new Nova Cat...errr...,Spirit Cat....err..., the what-are-we-calling-you-guys-now Shadow Cat?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 17 August 2013, 12:47:25
You mean the new Nova Cat...errr...,Spirit Cat....err..., the what-are-we-calling-you-guys-now Shadow Cat?

I'm calling them tenants.   ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Knightmare on 17 August 2013, 12:51:10
I'm calling them tenants.   ;D

 O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 17 August 2013, 20:52:03
Well if the Gencon rumor that Kisho and his band of Nova Cats are dead, then all that is left of the Nova Cat tradition is truly in the hands of the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate.  We are the last, true inheritors of our Clan.  May our people grow strong on Marik, safe under the watchful gaze of our warriors.
*eyetwitch* Oh COME ON...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 17 August 2013, 21:56:46
I have to honestly ask all the older Nova Cat fans, those of you who didn't get into battletech through the clix game, how much have you read on the Spirit Cats?  They so far have appeared in four novels, have dozens of dossiers, and some sporadic mentioning here and there on websites.  I am curious to actually hear how much folks have read.

Kisho's death is extremely letting down, but we still do not know how he went out.  My money is him being brought before Yori Kurita in the throne room, one last gift from his old friend from their time on Terra, when he lets loose in fury, taking down numerous guards and being the first and only person to ever strike fear into the heart of Warlord Toronaga, before finally beign felled.  Just imagine Kisho in place of Leonidas in 300 and Toronaga as Xerxes. O0

EDIT: Yeah that definitely works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-6M5FukAoE
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 17 August 2013, 22:09:13
Quote
  I have to honestly ask all the older Nova Cat fans, those of you who didn't get into battletech through the clix game, how much have you read on the Spirit Cats?

 NC fan from 1999 . Read all books about SC. Always see them as part of Nova Cat.

Quote
Kisho's death is extremely letting down, but we still do not know how he went out.  My money is him being brought before Yori Kurita in the throne room, one last gift from his old friend from their time on Terra, when he lets loose in hail of fury, taking down numerous guards and being the first and only person to ever strike fear into the heart of Warlord Toronaga, before finally beign felled. 

  I think he take death in trial whith some spirit cat warrior. May be Rikkard .  Trial for leadership , or faction fate (try to reborn "Nova Cat" , or stay "spirit cat"in name). And he himself choose to die in process.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 17 August 2013, 22:15:36
NC fan from 1999 . Read all books about SC. Always see them as part of Nova Cat.

Spirit Cats saw themselves as both a part of and yet separate to Clan Nova Cat.  According to Cox Devalis, they recognized Jacali Nostra's Khanship, but saw themselves as having a mission separate of the rest of the Clan, that of finding all their Clan new sanctuary.  So they are still Clan Nova Cat, but somewhat independent.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 August 2013, 01:56:35
I have to honestly ask all the older Nova Cat fans, those of you who didn't get into battletech through the clix game, how much have you read on the Spirit Cats?  They so far have appeared in four novels, have dozens of dossiers, and some sporadic mentioning here and there on websites.  I am curious to actually hear how much folks have read.

Kisho's death is extremely letting down, but we still do not know how he went out.

Ive just recently read the novels and the dossiers.

Im wondering if he didnt maybe try to navigate the fortress walls.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 18 August 2013, 09:42:00
I've read Heretic's Faith, the little bits in Fortress Republic, all the Dossiers and all the articles on the old clicks site.

Largely I see the Spirit Cats as the next stage for the Nova Cats I just wish they had done the story differently

Because of WizKids producing the Clicky game the Nova Cats had to be Still in the Combine.  I get the feeling that had they not been locked to that timeline the whole Nova Cat Clan would have gone to Stoner during the Jihad effectively ending the Clan earlier but IMO more cleanly and on a grander scale.

The thing is the Spirit Cats could have still appeared during the Blackout with that kind of story
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 August 2013, 09:46:52
Clan Nova cat dieing makes the spirit cats visions true. Reinforces their spiritual nature and their backstory. In a game with arguably to many factions it also keeps us from having a minor faction split in two. From a meta gaming standpoint it makes alot of sense.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 18 August 2013, 12:39:03
I see Catalyst wiping out the Nova Cats in Kuritan territory as just avoiding another Clan Wolf/Clan Wolf in Exile.  After a certain point you can't have fifty thousand iterations of every faction.  I have a feeling one of the two Wolf Factions will get folded up soon enough as well.  We shall have to see.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 18 August 2013, 13:43:05
I can't say why TPTB decided to off the Nova Cats.  However, for them to throw their weight behind a bad cause at the last minute is totally part of their character.  At least they went out doing what they always did, siding with the wrong side of history.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 18 August 2013, 13:49:59
I can't say why TPTB decided to off the Nova Cats.  However, for them to throw their weight behind a bad cause at the last minute is totally part of their character.  At least they went out doing what they always did, siding with the wrong side of history.

"General, the Nova Cats just joined our forces.  Should I get the white flag prepared?"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 18 August 2013, 13:59:42
"General, the Nova Cats just joined our forces.  Should I get the white flag prepared?"
;D [applause]
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 18 August 2013, 14:39:52
"General, the Nova Cats just joined our forces.  Should I get the white flag prepared?"

Hey, they typically picked the winning horse  ;D its just the only time they bet on themselves...ya know..
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nova Cain on 19 August 2013, 11:06:16
"General, the Nova Cats just joined our forces.  Should I get the white flag prepared?"
More like start carving headstones.

In other news:  I can say that the Wolf forces did defeat the Republic (@GenCon), and we should start looking for the ilClan sourcebook before Christmas.

For myself, I started with CBT back around the time of the Clan Invasion, but didn't stick for too long.  Played for a while but didn't get too into it.  Came back to the game through MechWarrior and latched onto the Spirit Cats pretty early (along with Highlanders).  Stuck with the Cats until the end, even through the terrible "Falcon's Prey" years.  I came into the fiction through the MW game and have been learning backwards from the Republic era (as if we could learn forwards with no future to speak of...).

I've always liked the Cats seeming ability to admit high level mistakes and work to correct them.  They saw the invasion was wrong for their future and changed course.  And when they did so, they went all in.  The Spirit Cats have pushed that flexibility even further with the recruitment schemes in the Clan Protectorate.  Where the Nova Cats stood apart from their surroundings, ending up in reservations, the Spirit Cats seem to be working to integrate better with theirs.  As seen in Rasalhague, that is probably the better path.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 11:22:08
Yeah. You know something is wrong when you get an 'Enemy Draconis Combine' Trait when you create a Nova Cat character and that's where they live.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 12:53:25
I'm a grognard who became a Nova Cat fan when they were first introduced.  Played through and read all the clicky-tech and Dark Age material.  Always saw the Spirit Cats as wayward children to be reintroduced to the main clan, not successors.  Trying to now that the Nova's are de facto dead, but still not having rousing success with it.  I liked the Nova Cats because they held the Jaguar at bay, went through the meatgrinder of Luthien, and STILL managed to inflict the greatest casualties on ComStar on Tukayyid.  Now that is a Clan.  Especially considering they did it without a "Stackpole" character amongst them, like Phelan or Vlad, to insure victory.  Heck, one of them even managed to kludge up the Dragoons (and look at how many Bloodnamed WERE Dragoons!).  Then, they joined the Second Star League.  For me, that was their highpoint.  I always figured them breaking away from Kurita and declaring independence for the Irece Prefectrue, not dying as cannon fodder.  So that is why this old NC fan has some difficulty warming up to the SC's.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 19 August 2013, 13:47:06
I have to honestly ask all the older Nova Cat fans, those of you who didn't get into battletech through the clix game, how much have you read on the Spirit Cats?  They so far have appeared in four novels, have dozens of dossiers, and some sporadic mentioning here and there on websites.  I am curious to actually hear how much folks have read.

Enough to know they aren't the Nova Cats. Oh, they may be kin to them, but they represent only a fraction of what the Cats were as a whole. They've been influenced by the Republic and the Foxes, for good or for ill. That makes me fairly ambivalent towards them, to be completely honest. And to put it even more bluntly, I'd much rather be given a Hunchback IIC and told to die well than to lap up the "consolation prize" that we older Nova Cat fans have been instructed to accept. That's no reflection on any of you who are Spirit Cat fans, simply my honest, personal opinion on the whole mess.

Do I wish them well? Sure, but come on. With a heritage that reads Nova Cat, you best be prepared to have the entire weight of the universe smash you into nonexistence. That's about all the Nova Cats ever truly were good for, in the end. Best be hedging your bets as you can; of course without me there to "improve" your luck, you may just end up ilClan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 16:42:38
Enough to know they aren't the Nova Cats. Oh, they may be kin to them, but they represent only a fraction of what the Cats were as a whole. They've been influenced by the Republic and the Foxes, for good or for ill. That makes me fairly ambivalent towards them, to be completely honest.

The Nova Cats of 3130 bow to people and use Japanese honorifics when they are talking to people... they would have all went to the Republic if they could have. As it was, their three best and brightest galaxies are the ones who left.

The Nova Cats of the 3100's live on reservations and end up invading the Republic because Katana Tormack can push them around and threaten them.

The Spirit Cats are the descendants of the best of Clan Nova Cat who went where they wanted to go. Who then followed a Nova Cat Mystic on a Spiritual Quest.

They may represent a fraction of what the Cats were as a whole. But it was the important fraction. I think 'Spirit' Cat is appropriate. Because its definitely where the Spirit of the Nova Cat went. What was left in the DCMS was more of the rotting carcass of the Nova Cats...

History will look back at them and see a Clan bent to the Dragons will who at the end were following the commands of and revering a bloodline of Minoru Kurita. Who died trying to put a different Kurita on the throne.

Quote
And to put it even more bluntly, I'd much rather be given a Hunchback IIC and told to die well than to lap up the "consolation prize" that we older Nova Cat fans have been instructed to accept.

Consolation prize sounds pretty ironic. In this situation it would be like getting the Gold Medal instead of the Silver.

Quote
Do I wish them well? Sure, but come on. With a heritage that reads Nova Cat, you best be prepared to have the entire weight of the universe smash you into nonexistence. That's about all the Nova Cats ever truly were good for, in the end. Best be hedging your bets as you can; of course without me there to "improve" your luck, you may just end up ilClan.

Whats so unlucky about the Nova Cats? Invaded the Inner Sphere, gave a good account for themselves, moved into the draconis combine, lived there for awhile, got in a fight with some ghost bears, duked it out in the jihad, joined the republic. Changed their name, became a cult, moved into the Free Worlds League and building up like usual?

Coming from a guy in a Clan that changes its name frequently, I'm not sure what the big deal is... Unless you were from Xi, Lambda or Omicron Galaxies during the Jihad Years...

then things got a little lame I guess.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 19 August 2013, 16:51:18
... and end up invading the Republic because Katana Tormack can push them around and threaten them.
...The Nova Cats had to be BRIBED to invade the Republic. They were promised something in exchange for their cooperation. What that was is likely to be a dangling plot thread, as I doubt it matters anymore.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 19 August 2013, 16:54:07
Pretty sure Era Report revealed that to be Katana promising to help the Nova Cats gain an independent Irece Prefecture, which she then tried to uphold when they began their rebellion and Katana's Dieron District supported them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 16:56:47
...The Nova Cats had to be BRIBED to invade the Republic. They were promised something in exchange for their cooperation. What that was is likely to be a dangling plot thread, as I doubt it matters anymore.

You are correct. I forgot about the paper thing. A lot of that book is pretty unresolved. Not really sure who's brutally cutting up mystics either. Still really not impressed with the DCMS Nova Cats in that book.

Pretty sure Era Report revealed that to be Katana promising to help the Nova Cats gain an independent Irece Prefecture, which she then tried to uphold when they began their rebellion and Katana's Dieron District supported them.

That could be. Though she displays quite a lot of shock.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 19 August 2013, 16:59:11
In that encounter, it's Jacali who was shocked, not Tormark.  I don't remember any shock from Tormark in the Era Report, but it has been a while since I read it.  If anything, she waits just long enough before sending her own troops into rebellion.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 17:02:03
I just looked it up in the book and Jacali's reaction is like she was shown a picture of Alexander Kerensky and Stefan Amaris high fiving eachother over Cameron's headless body.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 17:16:41

*Cut for space*

Whats so unlucky about the Nova Cats? Invaded the Inner Sphere, gave a good account for themselves, moved into the draconis combine, lived there for awhile, got in a fight with some ghost bears, duked it out in the jihad, joined the republic. Changed their name, became a cult, moved into the Free Worlds League and building up like usual?

Coming from a guy in a Clan that changes its name frequently, I'm not sure what the big deal is... Unless you were from Xi, Lambda or Omicron Galaxies during the Jihad Years...

then things got a little lame I guess.
Simply that what we see now is not what we think of "Clan Nova Cat".  The Spirit Cats are, in an of themselves, a faction worthy of their own name, history, traditions and fans.  The fact that it shares some of that history with the Nova Cats, however does not make them Nova Cats.  As an example, when I hear the words "Red Dawn", I automatically think of a 1984 movie starring Patrick Swayze, Carlos Estevez (Charlie Sheen) in his first role, Soviets, Cubans, etc.  You might think the same thing; or you might think of a 2012 movie starring the guys who play Thor & Peeta from the Hunger Games.  I have seen both, but consider myself a fan only of the first.  I am not saying anything bad about the more recent one; it was a quality production, reasonably well acted, and I enjoyed watching it.  But to me, it is an apple, not an orange.  I have no emotional connection to it.  If you were alive in 1984 (and not a child), the Cold War reality had much more of an impact (at least for me) than some fantasy invasion by North Korea of the U.S. in 2012.  Those emotional ties are what make us fans.  Another example is Battlestar Galactica.  I grew up with the original; most people I know prefer the "reimagined" version.  For a long time, I didn't - until my wife suggested I forget the title and just watch it as a show for its own merits.  I would now say that I am a fan of both.  I some things, I make the jump.  In others, I don't.  Neither position is wrong; it is simply a matter of personal choice and perspective.  Some people see the Spirit Cats as the logical and spiritual heir to the Nova Cats; others see them as a mockery.  Choose as you will, but please do not denigrate the other side if they do not share your choice.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 19 August 2013, 17:22:26
If you originally liked the Nova Cats because they were fierce independent warriors, had visions and followed them, and had a great combat record, it's the Spirit Cats who embody that now more than the Nova Cats by 3140 in Kuritan Space.

The Spirit Cats were an attempt by Kev Rosse to reverse the atrophy that had afflicted the Clan ever since the abjurement, an attempt to return to a purer, stronger form of Cat.

To be fair, I got into Battletech through the clix game and the Spirit Cats, but that's just how I see it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 17:34:03
If you originally liked the Nova Cats because they were fierce independent warriors, had visions and followed them, and had a great combat record, it's the Spirit Cats who embody that now more than the Nova Cats by 3140 in Kuritan Space.

The Spirit Cats were an attempt by Kev Rosse to reverse the atrophy that had afflicted the Clan ever since the abjurement, an attempt to return to a purer, stronger form of Cat.

To be fair, I got into Battletech through the clix game and the Spirit Cats, but that's just how I see it.
No problem - exactly what I mean by people choosing different things.  As far as I'm concerned, the Nova Cats are dead and gone and hopefully will stay that way.  Long live the Spirit Cats!
Cheers,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 17:47:06
Choose as you will, but please do not denigrate the other side if they do not share your choice.
Thanks,
Kamose

Bah. My rather bombastic reply was already gutted by Istal_Devalis and his silly 'Facts'. The fact that he did it with a my little pony avatar makes the defeat a bit more entertaining. But still sad.

But that was the point. Simply a bombastic post to point out that the Spirit Cats are as Nova Cat or more as the Nova Cats in the DCMS. I was going for pompous and overblown. But that's a poor way to convince anybody.

So sorry if you were offended Kamose. Hopefully Wonc will come around. But as you say, its his choice.

I will wait for my next opportunity to pounce upon a poster with Thomas Payne like rhetoric. For now I'm defeated by friendship magic.  [fiddle]

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 17:48:33
If you originally liked the Nova Cats because they were fierce independent warriors, had visions and followed them, and had a great combat record, it's the Spirit Cats who embody that now more than the Nova Cats by 3140 in Kuritan Space.

The Spirit Cats were an attempt by Kev Rosse to reverse the atrophy that had afflicted the Clan ever since the abjurement, an attempt to return to a purer, stronger form of Cat.

To be fair, I got into Battletech through the clix game and the Spirit Cats, but that's just how I see it.

Also my post was this. Without reason or rationale.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 17:53:33
Bah. My rather bombastic reply was already gutted by Istal_Devalis and his silly 'Facts'. The fact that he did it with a my little pony avatar makes the defeat a bit more entertaining. But still sad.

But that was the point. Simply a bombastic post to point out that the Spirit Cats are as Nova Cat or more as the Nova Cats in the DCMS. I was going for pompous and overblown. But that's a poor way to convince anybody.

So sorry if you were offended Kamose. Hopefully Wonc will come around. But as you say, its his choice.

I will wait for my next opportunity to pounce upon a poster with Thomas Payne like rhetoric. For now I'm defeated by friendship magic.  [fiddle]
Oh, I was not offended at all, Kitsune - and sorry if I gave you that impression.  Just hoping that others can seen WONC's position as well as their own.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 18:02:18
Oh, I was not offended at all, Kitsune - and sorry if I gave you that impression.  Just hoping that others can seen WONC's position as well as their own.
Regards,
Kamose

and I understand. Wonc's really upset after the Kisho news too. But I'd like to invite him over to the Spirit Cats all the same and since his last post was pretty anti Spirit Cat I thought some good old pompous rhetoric might sway him. But in retrospect it was ill timed.

I've got my fingers crossed we'll get Istal_Devalis with a Spirit Cat colored Pony in the house...

and in a week we may just know what colors that might be.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 18:06:03
and I understand. Wonc's really upset after the Kisho news too. But I'd like to invite him over to the Spirit Cats all the same and since his last post was pretty anti Spirit Cat I thought some good old pompous rhetoric might sway him. But in retrospect it was ill timed.

I've got my fingers crossed we'll get Istal_Devalis with a Spirit Cat colored Pony in the house...

and in a week we may just know what colors that might be.
That sure sounds interesting... be fun to imagine THAT color scheme!
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 19 August 2013, 18:28:09
and I understand. Wonc's really upset after the Kisho news too. But I'd like to invite him over to the Spirit Cats all the same and since his last post was pretty anti Spirit Cat I thought some good old pompous rhetoric might sway him. But in retrospect it was ill timed.

Damn Kitsune, you know I love you, right? You've consistently been a cheerleader when the rest of us would go with sackcloth and ashes. You and the Spirit Cat fans have been really good sports for it all, and you all have my thanks.

That said, my Clan is dead. My first, and ultimately my last, faction has been reduced to a stain on the floor and a footnote in future books. I am burned out on all of this. I'm tired of reading how awful things have gone for the bits of fluff I'm invested in. I'm sick of being subjected to a carrot-and-stick methodology to keep me connected to future products. I'm frustrated at having to reconcile feeling both happiness and sorrow from something that is supposed to be my hobby.

The Spirit Cats... they aren't my faction. They're something else, something that I have no reason to feel a connection to. I get why it should be only natural for me to support them. I totally do.

But I don't, and I won't. My Clan died a long, slow death worthy of a Greek tragedy. It would only belabor and mock what I felt about the whole thing to simply declare that I could learn to be content with something similar, yet different. Again, not to say anything bad about any of the Spirit Cat fans out there, or about the Spirit Cats as a faction choice, but I find the idea distasteful. I know for a fact that I'm not alone in that view, either.

The beauty of the Spirit Cats is that they have a rich history to grow from, one organically nurtured over the course of the life of BattleTech. Spirit Cat fans have a wonderful chance to play with and support one of the game's few "home grown" factions (unlike those that sprung forth fully formed, as is the case with the great bulk of all of them). More power to them.

But please, at the end of the day, allow us old Nova Cats to feel what we must. I'm sure a few will probably come around, but the sad truth is that a good portion of us now have nothing holding us here. It's only a matter of time before the breeze blows hard enough to see exactly how many will become part of the new whole, and how many will simply disappear into the ether.

As for myself, I'm already in the wind.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 19 August 2013, 18:38:46
Quote
Simply that what we see now is not what we think of "Clan Nova Cat".  The Spirit Cats are, in an of themselves, a faction worthy of their own name, history, traditions and fans.  The fact that it shares some of that history with the Nova Cats, however does not make them Nova Cats.

 Why not? In 3085 best of Nova Cats join to Rots:
Nova Star Keshik
1st Nova Cat Guards
489th Assault Cluster
Shiva Keshik
4th Nova Cat Guards
44th Nova Cat Cavaliers
46th Nova Cat Cavaliers
246th Battle Cluster
Vision Keshik
100th Striker Cluster
274th Battle Cluster

 etc . These clusters was main core of NC in Golden Centures and  operation REVIAL ,  fight in Great Refusial and Jihad  .  And they join to RoTS. In DC space stand only 189th Striker Cluster from old units , other all new .  In fact old Clan Nova Cat die in 3085 , when Alpha , Delta and Tau left  "core" clan.  And Spirit Cats descendants from this elite part of the cats.
 And yes - i am long Nova Cat fun (about 14 years) , and i accept SC.  For me SC= original NC  whith another name.

  PS Read MWDA Novel: Pandora's Gambit , - Spirit Cats  play here one of the clue role.

 
 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 August 2013, 19:13:37

Damn Kitsune, you know I love you, right? You've consistently been a cheerleader when the rest of us would go with sackcloth and ashes. You and the Spirit Cat fans have been really good sports for it all, and you all have my thanks.

But you'll always have a place with us in the Clan Protectorate, like any good genetically bred son of Drummond.

Quote
But I don't, and I won't. My Clan died a long, slow death worthy of a Greek tragedy.

And you know where Greek Tragedies belong, right? That's right! the Oriente Protectorate!

Seriously though. I don't know what it is about battletech that draws you here. But I know you've got it bad enough to make some personality tests about it. Like I told Kamose, there is a certain point of doing something where you can't really stop making it be a part of you. Even if you're not doing it.

You've got friends here anyways. So if you need a friend just swing on over. Even if you find something else to do, or choose to be a Jade Falcon or something crazy like that. I don't care what color you paint your mechs. You're in good company.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 23:06:45
Edited for space...
WONC, that was one of the most eloquent responses I've seen in years and expresses how I feel about the loss of the Nova Cats much better than I ever could.  As another old NC fan, thanks.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 19 August 2013, 23:25:10
Why not? In 3085 best of Nova Cats join to Rots:
Nova Star Keshik
1st Nova Cat Guards
489th Assault Cluster
Shiva Keshik
4th Nova Cat Guards
44th Nova Cat Cavaliers
46th Nova Cat Cavaliers
246th Battle Cluster
Vision Keshik
100th Striker Cluster
274th Battle Cluster

 etc . These clusters was main core of NC in Golden Centures and  operation REVIAL ,  fight in Great Refusial and Jihad  .  And they join to RoTS. In DC space stand only 189th Striker Cluster from old units , other all new .  In fact old Clan Nova Cat die in 3085 , when Alpha , Delta and Tau left  "core" clan.  And Spirit Cats descendants from this elite part of the cats.
 And yes - i am long Nova Cat fun (about 14 years) , and i accept SC.  For me SC= original NC  whith another name.

  PS Read MWDA Novel: Pandora's Gambit , - Spirit Cats  play here one of the clue role.

 
Scavenger, thanks for such a nice summary of the shared history and storied units that gave birth to the Spirit Cats.  And thanks especially for pointing out that the Nova Cat Clan essentially "died" in 3085.  So - why can I not accept the descendents of those units in their new form as being equivalent to their old form?  Simply because they AREN'T those units anymore.  When those units died or were disbanded, all of that great history died WITH them.  What was left and reconstituted in 3132 was different.  Period.  As I have grown older, so has the game.  Some of the changes I can resonate with, while most I cannot - they alienate me.  Lest I sound like WONC, for me this is not just limited to the death of the Nova Cats.  All of my favorite factions are dead, or nearly so, in 3145.  When there is no emotional tie, why stay invested?  For WONC and I, it is as simple as that.  People today ask me what my favorite TV series is.  Truth is, I don't have one.  I haven't watched regularly since the 90's.  Why?  Nothing interests me.  I have no problem with people liking "reality" shows, for instance.  Personally, I think they are incredibly vapid and uninteresting.  Solution?  I do not watch them, nor d  I object to others watching them.  As entertainment products have changed, so have my tastes.  As an old fan, TJIS is really the last vice I have in which I indulge myself.  But when it stops being what I want it to be, I will leave.  It really is as simple as that.  Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 19 August 2013, 23:48:51
I've got my fingers crossed we'll get Istal_Devalis with a Spirit Cat colored Pony in the house...
I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
If I changed it, it'd more likely be Republic colored.

And guys, please stop trying to convince us we're wrong when we think our faction is dead. I know you likely don't meant anything by it, but these are personal feelings you're talking about. The Spirits Cats just...aren't the same to me. I know it's not rational, but these things rarely are.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 19 August 2013, 23:50:23
*snip*

*snip*

Seyla. So let it be until we all fall.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nova Cain on 20 August 2013, 00:59:35
And guys, please stop trying to convince us we're wrong when we think our faction is dead. I know you likely don't meant anything by it, but these are personal feelings you're talking about. The Spirits Cats just...aren't the same to me. I know it's not rational, but these things rarely are.
Love of a faction isn't rational.  No rational argument can replace the feelings of loss and hurt from the CNC being so casually, cruelly swept aside in the way they were.  Perhaps one of the unpublished novels that I've heard exist dealt with the issue, but it certainly doesn't compensate for the way the news was conveyed.

You can't replace the Nova Cats with the Spirit Cats.  They're not the same.  They're not CNC.  It's like replacing your best friend with your best friend's brother.   That said, I found I could embrace the new faction hybrid of Sea Fox, Marik and Spirit Cat. 

When you finally find your new path, I'd suggest avoiding hooking on with one of the factions that looks to be without a future...

...on a lighter note, a bit of trivia:  the original Wendigo had the LRM10 in the right torso, 4 ERMLs and a normal cockpit, based on the sketch.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 20 August 2013, 01:31:42
But you'll always have a place with us in the Clan Protectorate, like any good genetically bred[/s] son of Drummond.

And you know where Greek Tragedies belong, right? That's right! the Oriente Protectorate!

Seriously though. I don't know what it is about battletech that draws you here. But I know you've got it bad enough to make some personality tests about it. Like I told Kamose, there is a certain point of doing something where you can't really stop making it be a part of you. Even if you're not doing it.

You've got friends here anyways. So if you need a friend just swing on over. Even if you find something else to do, or choose to be a Jade Falcon or something crazy like that. I don't care what color you paint your mechs. You're in good company.
Sorry I missed this in my earlier response, Kitsune.  I cannot speak for WONC, but it really IS the people on these forums who have kept me coming back, despite the universe getting less and less appealing.  +1 to Kitune' s offer of a friend if you need one, WONC.  While I still dislike most of the changes in the universe, talking to other people has helped me find a place to hang my hat, even if it is only temporarily.  I fully understand your frustration with losing factions; originally, I was a fan of the Steiner-Davion family/FedCom.  Then came the Clans.  I WANTED to be a Wolf fan, but they had too much of Phelan & Vladimir for me.  Then the Nova Cats arrived, and I had my Clan faction.  Since then - FedCom gone, ComStar gone, the Cats gone, Davion & Steiner gone, Liao & Kurita winning.  Basically, it was as if they eliminated or neutered every faction I ever cared about.  I even thought about the FWL, but we all know how that worked out.  But by talking with other forumites, I realized I could pick the Republic AND the Wolves b/c both were lead by/had strong ties to the S-D family.  So whoever wins, I've still got a faction.  The Spirit Cats will have a chance to earn my fandom; suddenly, I have a (few) emotional ties and I'm somewhat excited again.  I still do not appreciate the direction things are going, or trust anyone on the development team to be courteous, professional or a good steward of the line, but I'm still here after 27 years for at least 1 or 2 more.  Just don't give up too soon..we old Cats need to stick together!  And if any developer wishes to disagree with me, that is fine - just actually stick around to debate this time, please.
Thanks,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 20 August 2013, 07:50:32
I finally bought 3145 looking at the map I see the Protectorate as a Speed Hump to the Empire's path (sorry Spirit Cat fans) it's largely based on the path of how I see things going

Most of you who know of me will know I "live" now more in AUs now than canon anyway

IF the Nova Cats had died out during the Jihad or joined the Republic wholesale then maybe I'd see the Spirit Cats as the inheritors but as it stands they stood apart from their home Clan not against them but apart. To me that's the separation maybe ill drift back into the canon sometime
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Knightmare on 20 August 2013, 10:18:27
Lyle: I got the Spirit... You should get on it... It's a good train.

Gotta catch the Spirit...Cat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 August 2013, 10:23:07
I woke up thinking, "Man. at the end of the week I'll finally (hopefully) know how to paint my Sea Fox Mechs."

then thought, "I'd like to paint a Spirit Cat mech, but I don't even know what mechs they field. Oh wait! The Field Manual will be out so maybe I'll have their rats!"

I'm pretty excited.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 20 August 2013, 13:35:28
At this point I wonder if the Spirit Cats have any industry within their Clan Protectorate.  I hope that they can secure some deals with the Sea Foxes to get a mobile factory or two, or maybe the Wendigo and Nova Cat production lines from the Sea Fox Khanate hanging around Kuritan space.

Spirit Cats kind of used whatever designs they could get, given that most of their equipment came from Republic militias and Standing Guard units (and their own Clan militia Clusters, of course).  At this point, you could really have Spirit Cats in any mechs you choose. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 August 2013, 14:17:04
At this point I wonder if the Spirit Cats have any industry within their Clan Protectorate.  I hope that they can secure some deals with the Sea Foxes to get a mobile factory or two, or maybe the Wendigo and Nova Cat production lines from the Sea Fox Khanate hanging around Kuritan space.

Spirit Cats kind of used whatever designs they could get, given that most of their equipment came from Republic militias and Standing Guard units (and their own Clan militia Clusters, of course).  At this point, you could really have Spirit Cats in any mechs you choose. :)

There is a factory on Abadan.  :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 20 August 2013, 15:04:53
Personally, I see the Spirit Cats as the inheritors of the Nova Cats, and I am rooting for them.  I realize that some Nova Cat fans disagree, and I understand your point-of-view.  But they are all from the same gene pool.
As for Kisho, he will be missed, but he may have died fighting a rear-guard action that allowed the lower castes to survive to reach the protectorate.  At least, that is my hope.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 20 August 2013, 19:01:28
Okay, I just read the transcript of a broadcast by Herb.  He said that the Spirit Cats were "basically pirates".  :( I hope that changes for the better.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 20 August 2013, 20:08:34
Okay, I just read the transcript of a broadcast by Herb.  He said that the Spirit Cats were "basically pirates".  :( I hope that changes for the better.

*Head desk*
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 20 August 2013, 20:11:38
Where could we read this, if we were so inclined?  Super-curious.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 20 August 2013, 20:12:46
PLOT TWIST:  Herb is a dog person.  Any reference to his cats with nukes are actually blatant lies.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 20 August 2013, 20:15:34
Okay, I just read the transcript of a broadcast by Herb.  He said that the Spirit Cats were "basically pirates".  :( I hope that changes for the better.

He has used that exact same language to describe all the splinter groups from the MWDA game. Don't read too much into it.

Essentially, though, it's true. Those initial groups–most of them, at least–broke off from the RAF or stole equipment from the RAF or were in some other way renegades within the Republic. Or, to put it less charitably, pirates.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 20 August 2013, 20:17:44
Framed in that context, the pirate label makes more sense. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 20 August 2013, 20:18:06
He has used that exact same language to describe all the splinter groups from the MWDA game. Don't read too much into it.

Essentially, though, it's true. Those initial groups–most of them, at least–broke off from the RAF or stole equipment from the RAF or were in some other way renegades within the Republic. Or, to put it less charitably, pirates.

Okay, mateys.  Change o' plans.  Everybody grab the eyepatches and the rum.  Drink up, me hearties, yo ho!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 20 August 2013, 20:22:29
Okay, mateys.  Change o' plans.  Everybody grab the eyepatches and the rum.  Drink up, me hearties, yo ho!

My knee locks up if I keep it in the Captain Morgan pose too long. :'(  Bummer.  But on the bright side, I'm mostly unafraid of macaws  O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 20 August 2013, 20:23:17
My knee locks up if I keep it in the Captain Morgan pose too long. :'(  Bummer.  But on the bright side, I'm mostly unafraid of macaws  O0

Well, if ye can be in charge of the Macaw, I think that makes ye the Cap'n, yarrrrr.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 20 August 2013, 20:29:33
Well, if ye can be in charge of the Macaw, I think that makes ye the Cap'n, yarrrrr.

Didn't know the bird and the hat were a package deal.  You'd think an enterprising captain would delegate avian care.  But I guess that only means things don't always run so smoothly in the tiny despotic nations that pirate ships be, arrrgghh.


But, when you bust it back to basics, all Clans are pirates.  They've simply codified it with so many rules, you'd think they'd have come out with a new edition by now.   ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 20 August 2013, 20:32:40
"basicly pirates?"  Fine, we can now claim Herb's Cats as Isorla.  Let's see the Rusty Puppies beat THAT!

Even Pirates need a safe have or home base to rest and recover. 

Pirates, Thieves, Brigands, Murderers, Bandits, yes and a bunch of other names not worthy of repeating.  So, what makes them so different from the 'Divine Collaboration of Mighty Samurai'?  Would it be the Dragon's Hoard of unlimited wealth and resources spent on supporting an Army big enough to overwhelm the Nova Cats with sheer numbers?

"I have already lived too long. 
Now, you Must Kill me.
And I won't make it easy for you."

Spirit Cats of the Clan Nova Cat.  Always One and the Same.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 20 August 2013, 20:35:11
But, when you bust it back to basics, all Clans are pirates.  They've simply codified it with so many rules, you'd think they'd have come out with a new edition by now.   ;D

Quoted for truth.

Or, in the words of Star Commodore Barbarossa: "First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner ."
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 20 August 2013, 20:52:36
Quoted for truth.

Or, in the words of Star Commodore Barbarossa: "First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner ."

Dammit, that just makes me angry about being unable to schedule a movie night with my "it's complicated" so we can watch "Life and Death of Peter Sellers" starring Geoffrey Rush.  You've ruined my evening, TDC.  Ruined it completely.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 August 2013, 22:39:56
I love geoffrey rush!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 August 2013, 22:51:03
My knee locks up if I keep it in the Captain Morgan pose too long. :'(  Bummer.  But on the bright side, I'm mostly unafraid of macaws  O0

I suggest prisoner squats... will strengthen the ligaments in your legs to support your knees.

Also clan sea fox / spirit cat marik pirate haven!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 21 August 2013, 07:10:08
Where could we read this, if we were so inclined?  Super-curious.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32270.25.html
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 23 August 2013, 22:16:58
Thanks for the link, jim.  Very interesting.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nova Cain on 24 August 2013, 00:28:26
Now I understand all the pirate conversation.  Sounds like making an investment in the future of the Clan Protectorate isn't going to pay dividends.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 August 2013, 08:39:11
Nah. He was talking about how davions reacted to er 3145. Calling the spirit cats pirates is just a quick easy way to explain they were one of the republics bandit troops after the blackout. Dont take it literally. They arent actually pirates. Just rogue cultist nova cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 24 August 2013, 09:12:18
 In real history some " just pirates basically" grow far much from this.  For example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 August 2013, 09:24:36
In real history some " just pirates basically" grow far much from this.  For example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik .

Also the us navy, the british navy and he ancient chinese kingdom of wu off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 24 August 2013, 09:56:09
Opportunism and privateering are common tools of naval-based warfare through the ages.  At one time, no one could stop doing it without giving up that advantage to another power. 

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 24 August 2013, 11:45:14
The Sea Fox's don't pillage!! ...they negotiate  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 24 August 2013, 11:49:16
The Sea Fox's don't pillage!! ...they negotiate  ;D

Not true, they negotiate their pillaging ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 August 2013, 11:58:06
Or as tdc calls it... traiding
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 25 August 2013, 04:22:36
Four words. East India Trading Company
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 25 August 2013, 09:54:28
Four words. East India Trading Company

There do seem to be a few alarming parallels
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 September 2013, 23:57:30
 Oh man. New Field Manual. Exciting stuff! Awesome state specific RAT for the protectorate. All good mechs!  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 10 September 2013, 01:21:53
  And  Nova Cat cluster in Clan Protectorate  ;) . 6 clusters in total   
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 10 September 2013, 01:33:28
Shhhh!!! Spoiler Tags!  :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 10 September 2013, 14:31:25
Shhhh!!! Spoiler Tags!  :)
Sounds great!  Looks like I've got my new faction!  Does this mean I get to wear purple now?  ;D
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 10 September 2013, 14:36:31
Aw man, I just moved to a new apartment, going to be a week before I can download Field Manual.  All these happy Nova Cats on the forum are giving me goosebumps.  Can't wait to see what the news is.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 10 September 2013, 14:41:53
Sounds great!  Looks like I've got my new faction!  Does this mean I get to wear purple now?  ;D
Kamose

Yes you can.

Welcome to the League of Free Worlds.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 10 September 2013, 17:48:48
  Some strange:
- Omicron cluster commander bloodname Hardo. It is NC bloodname , but cluster have Sea Fox origin  (for example 2nd Protectorate Guardians commander have Sea Fox bloodname. )
 - 1st Protectorate Guardians commander bloodname Sender . It is WiE bloodname. How? Bondsman from Empire ?

 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 10 September 2013, 17:53:36
  Some strange:
- Omicron cluster commander bloodname Hardo. It is NC bloodname , but cluster have Sea Fox origin  (for example 2nd Protectorate Guardians commander have Sea Fox bloodname. )
 - 1st Protectorate Guardians commander bloodname Sender . It is WiE bloodname. How? Bondsman from Empire ?


Could be legacy's captured by that Clan if a warrior with a bloodname is captured from another Clan then their bloodline (descendants) can fight against those of the parent Clan for the right to continue to hold that bloodname.  Also non-exclusive bloodlines tend to be available in multiple Clans (the non-exclusive part) warriors who trace blood through them can compete in the Grand Melees and have a remote chance of winning

The idea of the non-exclusives (I think) was to make sure there was some chance of cross contamination of the bloodlines between the Clans ensuring that the pool of blood available did not become stagnant during the Clan's Isolation from the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 September 2013, 17:54:21
  Some strange:
- Omicron cluster commander bloodname Hardo. It is NC bloodname , but cluster have Sea Fox origin  (for example 2nd Protectorate Guardians commander have Sea Fox bloodname. )
 - 1st Protectorate Guardians commander bloodname Sender . It is WiE bloodname. How? Bondsman from Empire ?


P. 195 of WoR tells us that in the aftermath of the Reavings, Sender was spread to the Diamond Sharks (now Sea Foxes), Snow Ravens and Jade Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 September 2013, 17:54:57
Sorry, double post.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 10 September 2013, 18:28:44
Hmm. an odd choice by some Sea Foxes. But I'm happy and excited for the Protectorate
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 10 September 2013, 21:08:50
page 99 in the new field manual, State of Free Worlds Readiness is awesome for the Clan Protectorate in the field of blowing things up and having fun in tabletop mech games. Pretty excited about it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 11 September 2013, 10:48:06
The future is looking bright for the Protectorate and by extension, the FWL.  I like that Jessica is using the PG's desire for Trial based combat to possibly win manufacturing quotas from Wolf occupied worlds.  That's win-win.

And there's still no word from Kisho.  So, here's to hoping.  If he shows up and sees Nova Cats alongside Spirit Cats it may lure him in.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 13:25:05
And there's still no word from Kisho.  So, here's to hoping.  If he shows up and sees Nova Cats alongside Spirit Cats it may lure him in.

the Spirit Cats may ace him for killing Kev Rosse. Even though he didn't.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 11 September 2013, 13:49:58
Random thought... might the Steel Wolves be enticed into joining the Clan Protectorate?  They're stationed not that far away.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 14:50:31
So at first I was just thinking that Omicron Cluster left Clan Sea Fox. But now I'm not so sure. It seems like they trialed to participate as ground forces for the Free Worlds League. But I don't know that they don't consider themselves still part of Clan Sea Fox.

I'm really interested in how the Clan Protectorate will develop. Will it be three clans, The Spirit Cats, the Sea Foxes and the Nova Cats, all developing their own traditions and forces? I had assumed at first that Omicron essentially became Spirit Cats. But I don't think that's the case anymore.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 11 September 2013, 14:58:16
Quote
So at first I was just thinking that Omicron Cluster left Clan Sea Fox. But now I'm not so sure. It seems like they trialed to participate as ground forces for the Free Worlds League. But I don't know that they don't consider themselves still part of Clan Sea Fox.

  Their star colonel - nova/spirit cat whith Hardo bloodname.

 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 11 September 2013, 15:41:48
I just posted this question in the CNC thread but thought this could be a better place:

Has anything been said about a paint scheme for the 1st Nova Cat Provisionals? If not is there a good place to ask for a canonical statement?

I'll admit I'm being impatient but I've a great many minis that need painting and I'd love to do some in 1st NCP colors.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 15:44:06
I just posted this question in the CNC thread but thought this could be a better place:

Has anything been said about a paint scheme for the 1st Nova Cat Provisionals? If not is there a good place to ask for a canonical statement?

I'll admit I'm being impatient but I've a great many minis that need painting and I'd love to do some in 1st NCP colors.

I understand. I've got a Star of Mad Cats waiting to be painted and was waiting on the book. Maybe the best place is in the ask the writers forum.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 11 September 2013, 16:12:05
I understand. I've got a Star of Mad Cats waiting to be painted and was waiting on the book. Maybe the best place is in the ask the writers forum.

Done (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33110.0.html)

Good idea BTW.

EDIT: Ask and you shall receive! Appropriate camo until further notice.

Now for force composition...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 16:15:28
Oh hey. Its Klat! Its really sad how much I identify posters by their avatars. Sometimes I don't notice for hours if someone changes their picture.  ;D I just think, "Who is this new person?!?"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 11 September 2013, 16:16:45
Oh hey. Its Klat! Its really sad how much I identify posters by their avatars. Sometimes I don't notice for hours if someone changes their picture.  ;D I just think, "Who is this new person?!?"

Yeah I change avatars a lot... sorry about that!  :D

I suppose a CNC avatar should be next.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 16:20:10
Oh its ok. Your Avatar can be whatever you want it to be. Its just funny.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 16:26:36
The Spirit Cats tended to stick to bone white with a colored accent. So its possible that the Provisionals will do the same. Or perhaps, they will try to mimic the colors of previous Marik-Stewart Commonwealth units. They do tend to be whats left.

The Old Spirit Cat tanks were steel grey with a big white stripe. So maybe that too.

http://www.warrenborn.com/Search.php?FACTION=Spirit Cats
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Decoy on 11 September 2013, 16:30:52
I'm hoping they go back to the old Novacat scheme, which is black with a big nova burst in the center
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 11 September 2013, 16:32:14
I'm hoping they go back to the old Novacat scheme, which is black with a big nova burst in the center

How 'bout a nice reversal of that?  White, with a big black nova burst at the centre.  Would stand out a bit.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 16:32:54
I'm hoping they go back to the old Novacat scheme, which is black with a big nova burst in the center

I'm sure the First Nova Cat Provisionals do...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 11 September 2013, 16:34:28
How 'bout a nice reversal of that?  White, with a big black nova burst at the centre.  Would stand out a bit.

With red and blue pinstripe outlines of the black nova.  Thin ones, but still present.  That would be pimp daddy.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 11 September 2013, 17:03:31
Wow, some of that would be really hard to paint; though it would look cool if done well.

All the same I'm going with "appropriate camo is appropriate" until I see otherwise on camospecs.

Appropriate camo, unless/until you see otherwise at CamoSpecs.com.

A big thanks to Adrian Gideon for such a quick reply.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 17:05:27
Spirit Cat paint schemes -

Mechs:

Kev Rosse - White, black shoulder, gold accents on cockpit, grey knees muddy feet

Shiva Keshik -

Rikkard Nova Cat - Pure White with black accents
Liz Nostra - Pure White with black accents
Malisa Nova Cat - Pure White - Blue stripe, black accents
Kevin Nostra - ... dirty white with black accents and beige lower legs... think it needs a mech wash.
Marat Delaportas dirty white, with mud all over the legs and grey panneling
Sixo Nova Cat - White - grey panels
Lenett lossey - White, black accents, grey panels. mud

Purifiers -

Janis Nova Cat - white with black accents. muddy legs.
Sariah Nova Cat - Blue white with black muddy legs
Angus Drommund - White with black accents muddy legs
Lenell Nova Cat - white with grey panels. dirty feet
Arnis Drummond - White with grey panels. (no dirty feet. So obviously not a good Purifier MechWarrior)
Zabiha Nostra - White with grey panels - mud
Maria Devalis - White, Grey panels - mud
Monica Delaportas - White, Grey panels - mud
Rob Hoge - White, Grey panels - mud

Omicron Galaxy

Cora Nova Cat - steel/rust grey agromech
Kym Nova Cat - Beige with white accents
Susan Drummond - Beige with white accents
Faisal Rosse - Steel grey - muddy legs
youree Nova Cat - grey/beige with white panneling
Declan Devalis - Grey - white panneling, muddy legs

Some things to keep in mind

I would say the Shiva Keshik's paint scheme is Pure White with Black Accents
The Purifiers is white with steel grey panels or quarters of their mechs.
The Omicron Galaxy was Steel grey with white panels on their mechs.

Omicron Galaxy may not be the same as Omicron Cluster. Omicron Cluster is a Clan Sea Fox unit that decided to stay behind. Omicron Galaxy was hashing it out in the Republic.

Another fun thing from the Uniques pdf.

Quote

As a Clan, the Spirit Cats follow many rituals, many of them far different from those of other Clans. For example, in the Ritual of Battle (held before a combat), Spirit Cat warriors meet around a bonfire and tell stories of past battles won and combat to come. This ritual is also performed by warriors of Clan Nova Cat, from which the Spirit Cats were born.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 11 September 2013, 19:51:54
I actually rather liked the Nova Cat color scheme for MWDA. Although I would have reversed the black and white, i.e. Black main color scheme with white paneling. (And red and gold)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 September 2013, 20:01:47
I actually rather liked the Nova Cat color scheme for MWDA. Although I would have reversed the black and white, i.e. Black main color scheme with white paneling. (And red and gold)

hmm? Wasn't it white with gold cockpits/heads. and some black accents?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 12 September 2013, 06:25:59
Random thought... might the Steel Wolves be enticed into joining the Clan Protectorate?  They're stationed not that far away.

That would be interesting.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 12 September 2013, 09:48:56
I can see them joining Clan Wolf proper more than the Protectorate.  The Steel Wolves wanted to see action more than anything.  And since Alaric is in position to strike Terra, they would be more tempted than being another weirdo upstart pseudo clan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 12 September 2013, 11:11:49
I actually rather liked the Nova Cat color scheme for MWDA. Although I would have reversed the black and white, i.e. Black main color scheme with white paneling. (And red and gold)
hmm? Wasn't it white with gold cockpits/heads. and some black accents?
:)
I was describing what the reverse would be.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 12 September 2013, 14:49:10
Yanno?  One of the reasons I liked the Clan Nova Cat and the Spirit Cats was that neither faction had 'Wolf' in their names.  Kind of like why I cringe every time I hear how wonderful something Davion is.

Okay, so it's a small world in a big universe, but there's plenty of room for everyone.  Steel Wolves and Clan Wolf have the same relationship that the 'Cats have.  They also have their own empire to play with, and wandering into the Clan Protectorate might be viewed as tresspassing. 

Seems like my 'Cats spend a lot of time chasing away possums in their own backyard.  Seems like a full time occupation just doing that.  It doesn't matter one bit which high and mighty invicible overlord chased them out of his yard first, they can't stay here, go away.

(oh gahhhd they're turning into red necked hillbillies hunting rabbits with elephant guns.) 

(that's quite a transformation from Samurai Ninja Cats, and the next novel will feature 'Wild Cats in the City' ... not a spoiler, just a prediction.)

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 12 September 2013, 15:17:39
(oh gahhhd they're turning into red necked hillbillies hunting rabbits with elephant guns.) 
Oh good, my fictional people have turned into my real life people.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 13 September 2013, 23:33:32
Thinking more about the 1st Nova Cat Provisional; as I understand it they're made up Nova Cats that fled the Republic. Does this mean that they may be former RAF? If that's the case would their force composition reflect that?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 14 September 2013, 00:24:12
Well. I think you could at least be rolling on the republic rats for them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 14 September 2013, 02:22:49
Well. I think you could at least be rolling on the republic rats for them.

That's what I was thinking, it's nice to see someone with the same idea.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 September 2013, 02:25:04
If you are planning on creating them for a campaign rolling them up on the RAF RAT makes sense and then using the FWLM RAT for combat loss replacement.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 14 September 2013, 02:43:34
If you are planning on creating them for a campaign rolling them up on the RAF RAT makes sense and then using the FWLM RAT for combat loss replacement.

I like that, thanks. I wish more of the new FWL 'Mechs had minis but such is life I suppose. I have to say I'm rather surprised the Prefect isn't seen in more RATs with Irian being independent. I'll have to keep looking at FWL designs, if anyone has any ideas for 'Mechs that I can get minis of I'd love to hear them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 14 September 2013, 03:08:43
I asked about notable Clan Protectorate pilots in TRO:3145 on the Marin thread.  If anybody replies over there, I'll mention it here.
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 14 September 2013, 03:58:54
I asked about notable Clan Protectorate pilots in TRO:3145 on the Marin thread.  If anybody replies over there, I'll mention it here.
Kamose

Thanks, I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kamose on 14 September 2013, 04:05:52
Thanks, I appreciate that.
No problem, always willing to help a fellow Cat fan out.
Regards,
Kamose
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 15 September 2013, 09:18:15
Well, I just got my hands on FM3145, and all I can say is, TPTB gave me more than I was expecting.  Pretty sure I called it a few months ago that the Clan Protectorate would have 4 clusters, two pure Spirit Cat, 2 Protectorate Guardians but now they have 6, 3 Nova Cat/Spirit Cat, 2 Protectorate Guardians, and 1 Sea Fox.  And Rikkard Nova Cat will be leading them in Trials of Possession all over Clan Wolf territory, yippie!

Really happy to see Shiva Keshik and the Purifiers reconstituted, Purifiers were so fun back in the clix game.  Also, I am betting that the Omicron Cluster was originally going to be a Spirit Cat cluster too, since the third Spirit Cat cluster in the Spirit Cat Galaxy was also called Omicron.  I think TPTB probably decided giving the Spirit Cats ALL their Clusters back in almost full condition was probably a bit too much, so they switched it to see Fox at the last minute.  Would make sense why the Star Colonel is of Nova Cat bloodname.


If Battletech ever gets back to writing novels, I would really hope for a FWL that focuses on Clan Protectorate, just to see how the Clan culture and Inner Sphere culture melds over the coming years.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Øystein on 16 September 2013, 01:20:41
*mutters something*

Omicron was supposed to be the old Spirit Cats cluster.

Øystein
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 September 2013, 01:31:13
*mutters something*

Omicron was supposed to be the old Spirit Cats cluster.

Øystein

I was curious about this.  :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 16 September 2013, 02:15:39
*mutters something*

Omicron was supposed to be the old Spirit Cats cluster.

Øystein

Interesting to see them survive - they're just about the only remains of any of the original  splinter factions left from the WizKids dossiers: the Dragons Fury are dead/absorbed, same for the Swordsworn, the Raiders are MIA and the Steel Wolves are split into two merc units and maybe a handful of survivors.
I guess the Stormhammers are still around - just now firmly a part of the LCAF
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 16 September 2013, 08:04:19
Well, we know the RAF wiped out the Band of Five part of the Raiders when the walls went out.
Probably involved a lot of collateral damage, knowing the Band of Five.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 18 September 2013, 16:02:30
Really happy to see Shiva Keshik and the Purifiers reconstituted, Purifiers were so fun back in the clix game.  Also, I am betting that the Omicron Cluster was originally going to be a Spirit Cat cluster too, since the third Spirit Cat cluster in the Spirit Cat Galaxy was also called Omicron.  I think TPTB probably decided giving the Spirit Cats ALL their Clusters back in almost full condition was probably a bit too much, so they switched it to see Fox at the last minute.  Would make sense why the Star Colonel is of Nova Cat bloodname.[/spoiler]

If Battletech ever gets back to writing novels, I would really hope for a FWL that focuses on Clan Protectorate, just to see how the Clan culture and Inner Sphere culture melds over the coming years.
I think Omicron is the same Cluster that was part of the original Spirit Cats, but it was attached to Delta Aimag for strategic reasons.

the Steel Wolves are split into two merc units and maybe a handful of survivors.
Three actually; the Wolf Hunters, Steel Wolf Corps and Steel Wolves.

Quote
I guess the Stormhammers are still around - just now firmly a part of the LCAF
I'm a little confused as to the status of the Stormhammers; they never get mentioned as having been destroyed of absorbed, but they don't get an entry in FM:3145. I'm guessing they still exist as a pro-Lyran paramilitary group that's not actually part of the LCAF.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 19 September 2013, 01:10:54
Did the Steel Wolf Corps get a mention in FM: 3145 - I know I certainly saw the other two but may have missed the Corps.

Stormhammers - there was a mention that they were expanded and that briefly the Broken Swords were rolled into them.
Interesting that they didn't get their own write up.

I also wonder what happened to that detached element of the Stormhammers, left in prefecture IX - they help fight of the Wolves in 3137. Wonder if they rejoined their old unit or stayed put?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 19 September 2013, 08:29:55
Jassek is listed in the LCAF roster, but not as the Stormhammer CO.  Maybe they were broken up after the Steiner Strikers were split off.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 19 September 2013, 10:33:15
Did the Steel Wolf Corps get a mention in FM: 3145 - I know I certainly saw the other two but may have missed the Corps.
No, but in the absence of new information, I'm assuming they're still around.

Jassek is listed in the LCAF roster, but not as the Stormhammer CO.  Maybe they were broken up after the Steiner Strikers were split off.
Interesting, I didn't notice that. Maybe when Jasek got promoted, he put one of his subcommanders in charge of the Stormhammers.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 19 September 2013, 20:40:46
FM3145 only lists "notable" Merc units. The Steel Wolf Corp might still exist, but not be big/notable enough to register.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 22 September 2013, 16:56:14
If I remember right, the Steel Wolves, when they split, went a bunch of a different ways.  Almost two Clusters went with the new Galaxy Commander Fetladral to go back after Tigress, which after his dishonorable conduct against Anastasia Kerensky, was then taken over by Verena Wolf, the aerospace Star Captain (Now Galaxy Commander) all the way back from a Call  to Arms.

The Wolf Hunters, about a battalion/cluster in size, went with Anastasia Kerensky and did their thing.

A smaller, couple of trinaries or binaries worth of vehicles (A Battalion maybe?) went with Xera Wolf and became the Steel Wolf Corps, an all-vehicle Mercenary command.  Those are the ones in the Field Manual, right next to the Clan Protectorate.

Two Binaries joined up with an independent mercenary command that was last seen in Prefecture 9, scouting for lost Word of Blake Cells.  That included a star of mechs, a star of Elementals, some vehicles, and a point or two of unarmored infantry.

And then there were the random star or individual warrior who just dispersed when Anastasia drank her 'merc aid'.  Yulri Wolf was one of these.  Same with Kris Carns, and Gwen Fletladral.  Really interested to see what happens with Gwen actually, since the TRO mentioned she was nursing a serious hatred of Kerensky since he killed Kal Radick and ran the Steel Wolves into the ground.

I wonder if the Steel Wolves Corp could be lured to the Clan Protectorate.  Start their own enclave there, reimmerse themselves into the Clan way of life.  Most of them were probably Freeborn warriors from the Wolf Lancers Cluster originally though, so maybe they're happy merc'ing it up too.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 22 September 2013, 17:21:00
If I remember right, the Steel Wolves, when they split, went a bunch of a different ways.  Almost two Clusters went with the new Galaxy Commander Fetladral to go back after Tigress, which after his dishonorable conduct against Anastasia Kerensky, was then taken over by Verena Wolf, the aerospace Star Captain (Now Galaxy Commander) all the way back from a Call  to Arms.

The Wolf Hunters, about a battalion/cluster in size, went with Anastasia Kerensky and did their thing.

A smaller, couple of trinaries or binaries worth of vehicles (A Battalion maybe?) went with Xera Wolf and became the Steel Wolf Corps, an all-vehicle Mercenary command.  Those are the ones in the Field Manual, right next to the Clan Protectorate.

Two Binaries joined up with an independent mercenary command that was last seen in Prefecture 9, scouting for lost Word of Blake Cells.  That included a star of mechs, a star of Elementals, some vehicles, and a point or two of unarmored infantry.

And then there were the random star or individual warrior who just dispersed when Anastasia drank her 'merc aid'.  Yulri Wolf was one of these.  Same with Kris Carns, and Gwen Fletladral.  Really interested to see what happens with Gwen actually, since the TRO mentioned she was nursing a serious hatred of Kerensky since he killed Kal Radick and ran the Steel Wolves into the ground.

I wonder if the Steel Wolves Corp could be lured to the Clan Protectorate.  Start their own enclave there, reimmerse themselves into the Clan way of life.  Most of them were probably Freeborn warriors from the Wolf Lancers Cluster originally though, so maybe they're happy merc'ing it up too.

You got your Steel Wolves a little mixed there.

It was Xera who initially allied with Varnoff Fetladral with the pair of them managing to get together almost a galaxy of troops. Xera later deposed Varnoff. Presumably, it's the remnant of this force (one cluster, 75%) that's in FM3145

Nikola Wolf was the leader of the Steel Wolf Corp. The unit consisted of a binary of vehicles and some Infantry, both armoured and on foot. No idea as to their fate as of 3145; they simply could not be a 'notable' unit.

A star of 'Mechs and Elementals under the command of Star Commander Tal Sender joined up with Jamison's Juggernauts and were the group that fought the hidden Wobbies (Ironically, they were working for a Falcon-allied world). Again the Juggernauts arent in FM3145
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 22 September 2013, 20:04:03
Quote from: Captain of C-21
I wonder if the Steel Wolves Corp could be lured to the Clan Protectorate.  Start their own enclave there, reimmerse themselves into the Clan way of life.  Most of them were probably Freeborn warriors from the Wolf Lancers Cluster originally though, so maybe they're happy merc'ing it up too.

'Lured' is a good word for it.  My Spirit Cats would confiscate their equipment as Isorla, then make bondsmen of the few warriors they deem worthy of the effort.  The remainder would be sent home with advice to find some other form of employment.

Wer are not amused by the Rusty Puppies.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 22 September 2013, 20:37:43
You got your Steel Wolves a little mixed there.

It was Xera who initially allied with Varnoff Fetladral with the pair of them managing to get together almost a galaxy of troops. Xera later deposed Varnoff. Presumably, it's the remnant of this force (one cluster, 75%) that's in FM3145

Nikola Wolf was the leader of the Steel Wolf Corp. The unit consisted of a binary of vehicles and some Infantry, both armoured and on foot. No idea as to their fate as of 3145; they simply could not be a 'notable' unit.

A star of 'Mechs and Elementals under the command of Star Commander Tal Sender joined up with Jamison's Juggernauts and were the group that fought the hidden Wobbies (Ironically, they were working for a Falcon-allied world). Again the Juggernauts arent in FM3145

Ah, yeah you're right.  Although the Steel Wolf Merc unit in the FM is Listed as "Steel Wolf Corp", which is Nikola's old unit, but with Xera in charge.  Very strange, I guess most Steel Wolves went back to Clan Wolf, judging on how Kris Carns and Gwen Fetladral are now Wolf Warriors once again.

And GhostCat, I do not think the Spirit Cats can afford to be so selective.  If they could get that 75% Cluster as a part of their Protectorate forces (and the planet too to boot), I feel like there would be plenty of room for a Steel Wolves Enclave or two in the Protectorate.  I have been wondering lately if that's not exactly what the Clan Protectorate is going to become, a bunch of Clan enclaves all over the Protectorate, but ones that don't fight with each other.  A number of a different Clans that all band together against common foes but don't turn on each other in the meantime.  A little bit different from say the Homeworlds or the different OZs, where the Clans may occupy the same worlds but still fight with each other.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 22 September 2013, 20:54:35
Although the Steel Wolf Merc unit in the FM is Listed as "Steel Wolf Corp", which is Nikola's old unit, but with Xera in charge.

No, it's the Steel Wolves who are listed, with Xera in command (p182).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 23 September 2013, 18:49:24
Well that's just odd.  So then Xera decided it was best to go merc too then, huh?  And these were supposed to be the Clan warriors who despised going merc as Anastasia had done, very strange.  Although I doubt we'll ever see much explanation for what path they took after 3135.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 23 September 2013, 19:13:35
Well that's just odd.  So then Xera decided it was best to go merc too then, huh?  And these were supposed to be the Clan warriors who despised going merc as Anastasia had done, very strange.  Although I doubt we'll ever see much explanation for what path they took after 3135.

I think it was less a 'best option' as it was an 'only option'. Varnoff Fetladral's plan to take back Tigress was a fool's errand. The world was in effect annexed by the FedSuns via Erik Sandoval-Grossel circa October 3135, and was absorbed into the Suns later. It was then, at some point after that, taken by the CC. Varnoff had a galaxy (about three clusters IIRC) of mixed troops to take and hold a world that two different Successor States were fighting over.

Xera deposed Varnoff in October 3136; it's not clear what portion of their troops chose to follow her, but I'm sure that this further depleted her forces. That still leaves a nine-year gap in which the troops at her disposal shrank further to one understrength cluster. During that time, the remaining Republic worlds outside the Fortress are retaken or absorbed by the other Successor States. The original Steel Wolf goal, to carve out a mini-Empire within the Republic, was no longer viable. Mercenary work, while clearly not their original goal, does maintain a degree of independence that they'd lose if they joined another group.

Of course, I suspect that joining the Wolf Empire is a no-no simply because of Anna K. being a part of said Empire and the not inconsiderable amount of hatred that Xera's Steel Wolves must have for her.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 24 September 2013, 04:37:49
Also, we don't know the nature o them going merc.
- are they freelancer thugs with mechs
- or pseudo house troops styled after the WiE?

We don't really know and the Field Manual doesn't make clear - probably intentionally - how long they've been at their current duty station.
They could be like Comancho's calleberios and serving as "mercs" protecting their home worlds for years and years
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 September 2013, 08:54:14
The Republic has been their home for awhile. They may have trouble joining the wolf empire considering its obviouslygoing to make a run on terra.

Their galaxy also made a run on terra. But they may have viewed their own invasion as something different.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 29 September 2013, 09:24:28
SO to get back to the Clan Protectorate itself... I want to know, down the road, what do you think are the realistic force projections we could see the Clan Protectorate be capable of?  Right now, we have 6 Clusters, four Trueborn/Clansmen, and 2 mixed with a heavy emphasis on native freeborns.  The Protectorate itself has 7 planets, and some manufacturing base (And for all we know, the Spina Khanate may be looking to set up some of their own factories).

I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to say in 20-30 years the Clan Protectorate rolling two full Galaxies, and after that, maybe even more.  If the Exile Wolves can roll 3 Galaxies off of Arc Royal, no reason the Spirit Cats, Sea Foxes, and Nova Cats can't do the same off of 7 planets.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 29 September 2013, 11:44:15
 If protectorate force capture some border mech factory from wolf (in potential FWL counteratack , or in some trial) , or (whith Sea Fox help) can build one on Marik - then 3-5 galaxy .
I think main question for them -  breeding program, and new generation of warriors.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 September 2013, 12:38:28
If protectorate force capture some border mech factory from wolf (in potential FWL counteratack , or in some trial) , or (whith Sea Fox help) can build one on Marik - then 3-5 galaxy .
I think main question for them -  breeding program, and new generation of warriors.

They have angel ii. :) they have a factory.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dreyf on 29 September 2013, 17:23:58
They have angel ii. :) they have a factory.

There is also a 'Mech factory on Abadan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 29 September 2013, 17:42:56
I think main question for them -  breeding program, and new generation of warriors.

With the Nova Cats fleeing the Republic space bringing with them their enclave populations, and the Sea Foxes probably willing to provide some extra breeding tech, I wouldn't be surprised if the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats already had their breeding program back up and running, with the first generation of new Marik-decanted sibkos already mewling.  Between washed out trueborn civilians, the warriors in their clusters, and the enclave gene samples, they probably have a pretty good selection of warrior genes to use.

The Battlemech and vehicle factories already in the Clan Protectorate make me happy.  Time to fix them up to Clan-specs.

You know, I am also wondering about the cultural divide between the Spirit Cats and Nova Cats.  Given how influential Kev Rosse was to the Spirit Cats, I wonder if they are still not building up the mysticism around their departed leader.  That they managed to find a sanctuary that not only allows them to exist but is treating them far better than the Combine ever did must have helped Kev Rosse's (and by his own leadership, Rikkard's) visions and reputation among the warriors and civilians.  It would be very interesting to see if the Spirit Cats maintain their Clan way of life, but almost build a religion around Kev Rosse (or maybe make a pantheon with him and several other former Khans) and his visions that 'saved' them.  The Nova Cats who don't buy into it of course could still be there, but might get ostracized a little from positions of leadership and accolades.

There is only Kev Rosse and Rikkard Nova Cat is His Prophet. :D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 October 2013, 10:38:59
*mutters something*

Omicron was supposed to be the old Spirit Cats cluster.

Øystein

The Force Deployment lists us at 5 Galaxies and 30 clusters. But the text for Omicron says that 'Omicron Cluster left Delta Aimag" like they are a galaxy instead of a Cluster.  ;D

They are at 66% though, so if Clan Sea Fox still runs 5-6 trinaries deep it almost makes sense. Though now we can start making threads about what happened to Clan Spirit Cats original Omicron Galaxy? Cluster?

Funny enough if you do a search through MWDA uniques Omicron is listed as being a full Galaxy. But in the fluff text its usually referred to as a Cluster. But not always! sometimes they call it a full galaxy.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 06 October 2013, 13:47:16
Omicron Cluster was a Spirit Cat Cluster, operating in the Republic during the early years of the Blackout.  Omicron Galaxy I am pretty sure was a Nova Cat Provisional Galaxy operating at the time of the Nova Cat/Kuritan Invasion of the ROTS (3136-3138).  At least I am pretty sure there was an Omicron Galaxy.  The other Galaxies were Alpha (The Elite), and Psi Provisional (The one with the crazy camouflage patterns).

As for the Omicron Cluster in the Clan Protectorate, even though the Fluff says it is Sea Fox in origin, given that the Line Developers were going to make it the original Spirit Cat Cluster and changed it at the last minute, I like to pretend it is still the Spirit Cat one.  Plus, it's being commanded by a Spirit Cat warrior, and seems to be under the command of Galaxy Commander Rikkard Nova Cat, so there's always that.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 03 November 2013, 10:45:59
So some folks in one of the other Nova Cat threads asked me to compile a list of all possibly surviving Nova Cat warriors from the Spirit Cat Shiva Keshik and Purifier Clusters.  I'm going to throw in some Omicron as well just because I bet that they were more than likely the ones put in charge of the Protectorate Guardian Clusters.

Shiva Keshik

Rikkard Nova Cat (Obviously)
Marat Deleportas (Pilots a Sphinx, was a Star Captain, and one of Kev Rosse's top warriors, but not as spiritual as most Spirit Cats, probably the big number 2 behind Rikkard, hopefully a Star Colonel now).
Liz Nostra (Pilots a Crimson Hawk, hada brief moment of disillusion after the HPG Blackout, got her mojo back after capturing Tybalt from Bannson's Raiders)
Malisa Nova Cat (pilots a Uller, under Liz Nostra's command, led the capture of Addicks in 3133)
Sixo Nova Cat (Pilots a Blade)
Kara Fletcher (Biggest Elemental on record ever, impressive codex)
Kevin Nostra (Zeus pilot, believes he is Alexsandr Kerensky reborn, tries to play that up a lot in Clan Council meetings)
Cox Devalis (Warhammer IIC pilot, participated in the Battle of Wyatt, 3135)
Lenett Lossey (Spider pilot, a real political animal for Clan standards)

Purifiers
Angus Drummond (Pilots a Mad Cat II, was gunning for the Oathmaster position in the Spirit Cats, basically the CO of the Purifiers back in the 3132-3135 era)
Arnis Drummond (Dasher II, very immersed in DC culture, probably heavily shunned by other Spirit Cats at this point)
Sariah Vozka (Centurion pilot, quiet and demur, but a fierce warrior)
 Lenell Nova Cat (Ocelot pilot)
Zahiba Nostra (Thunderbolt pilot, helped the Dragoons take Outreach in early 3133)
Monic Deleportas (Warhammer IIC pilot, has EI surgery, insane)
Maria Devalis (Shadow Hawk IIC pilot, nurses a hatred of the ROTS for past discrimination against Clan peoples)

Omicron I'm only listing a few here, most who I think might show up.
Susan Drummond (Legionnaire pilot, nicknamed "Mother Hen" for her defensive posture in battles)
Faisal Rosse (Dasher II pilot, very reckless)
Robert Bravos (Very demoralized Solahma aerospace jock, after the Clan Protectorate perhaps he was given a more active battlefield role again?)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 03 November 2013, 11:04:29
Rikkard Nova Cat was a noted Shadow Hawk IIC 4 pilot ( MWDA Novel: Pandora's Gambit )
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 01 December 2013, 22:59:58
Lament and Doloire minis need to come out already; I want to do them up in night camo with other RAF stuff for NC Provisionals  :P

Anyway, I'm in the process of putting together a combined arms force with a mix of Clan and IS tech; Cizins and Jousts next to Scimitar MK.IIs along with an assortment of 'Mechs of various technological backgrounds.  Hopefully I'll be able to assemble a believable force.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 01 December 2013, 23:54:02
Lament and Doloire minis need to come out already; I want to do them up in night camo with other RAF stuff for NC Provisionals  :P

Anyway, I'm in the process of putting together a combined arms force with a mix of Clan and IS tech; Cizins and Jousts next to Scimitar MK.IIs along with an assortment of 'Mechs of various technological backgrounds.  Hopefully I'll be able to assemble a believable force.

Those two Mechs are everything I ever wanted for Christmas in my Lyran forces.  :P
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 April 2014, 18:19:24
Purifier's are an awesome cluster of crazy people. Like their new write up.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 April 2014, 18:21:15
Rosse had a lot of followers.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 12 April 2014, 18:33:05
Rosse had a lot of followers.

I got that impression early on

Hopefully getting this in morning after work.  Really wish it had come out earlier in week when I was off! Lol
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 12 April 2014, 23:42:16
I can't decide between Omicron and the Purifiers  :-\

I know they're extremely different from each other but both appeal to my inner Nova Cat for different reasons. Omicron for being pragmatic and the Purifiers for following the old ways.

On a different note; how does one isolate an image from a pdf? I'd like a high resolution Spirit Cats and/or Purifiers emblem.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 April 2014, 23:48:19
Purifiers get awesome bonuses in gameplay. :D

Omicron doesn't really make it to the Clan Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 12 April 2014, 23:57:58
Purifiers get awesome bonuses in gameplay. :D

Omicron doesn't really make it to the Clan Protectorate.

That's right, the Omicron in ER:DA isn't the Spirit Cats  :-[

I'd forgotten all about that. OK, Purifiers it is then. Now I just need to figure out how to get a high resolution logo...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 April 2014, 00:02:04
Dark Ages sourcebook out?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 13 April 2014, 00:13:31
Era Digest: Dark Age.  It details the micro factions and their leaders.  Getcha Getcha.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 13 April 2014, 00:24:34
Considering how few Trinaries ED:DA gave the Spirit Cats per Cluster, they certainly did some growing by the time they reached the Protectorate.  What's up with Catalyst creating brand spanking new Star Colonels for the Clusters when we already have plenty of established Spirit Cat characters who could've been used?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 April 2014, 03:21:30
I knew it was coming just did not realize it was out yet.  Yeah, the big council Kev held listed quite a few Star Colonels, even had them competing against each other to head to Towne.  I would not mind seeing the sheet for the protagonist's Warhammer IIC . . . which was like a mini-Supernova, with maybe a supercharger?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 13 April 2014, 04:23:35
I knew it was coming just did not realize it was out yet.  Yeah, the big council Kev held listed quite a few Star Colonels, even had them competing against each other to head to Towne.  I would not mind seeing the sheet for the protagonist's Warhammer IIC . . . which was like a mini-Supernova, with maybe a supercharger?
IIRC, it had quad heavy large lasers, which would make for a lot of heat.. maybe it had a RHS?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 13 April 2014, 12:50:11
Okay, Spirit Cats emblem is easy... Purifiers, not so much.

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/KlatBlutig/spiritcats_clipped_rev_1_zpsea1079cb.png)

I just can't get the Purifiers emblem right. I'll see what I can do about that.

This is serviceable I believe:

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/KlatBlutig/PurifiersLogo_clipped_rev_1_zps7008cedf.png)

EDIT: Slightly better resolution versions.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 13 April 2014, 14:38:53
Purifiers get awesome bonuses in gameplay. :D

Omicron doesn't really make it to the Clan Protectorate.

I'd have to assume elements of Omicron made it to the Protectorate, but there wasn't enough to re-start the Cluster, and some got rolled into the Shiva Keshik, Purifiers, while others became the officers of the Protectorate Guardian Clusters.

Also, Klat, those are looking nice!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: ds9guy on 13 April 2014, 15:53:03
Did Kisho make it to the Clan Protectorate or is his fate unknown? 
The Era Report left it up in the air. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 13 April 2014, 16:17:31
Did Kisho make it to the Clan Protectorate or is his fate unknown? 
The Era Report left it up in the air.

Confirmation of Kisho's death (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32384.0.html)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 13 April 2014, 16:19:49
Confirmation of Kisho's death (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32384.0.html)

Er, that's not confirmation, that's "wait until we publish something".
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 13 April 2014, 20:40:45
Where can I find the canonical description of the Spirit Cats color scheme? Obviously I could just go off MWDA models but the description of the Purifiers use of glyphs makes me wonder if it's any different.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 13 April 2014, 20:46:21
Since it hasn't been published in Camospecs its appropriate Camo.

The MWDA models are hard to tell what they were planning.

Either they are white with gray and beige panels...

Or they used to be white, are using primer on recently replaced parts and are caked in mud.

I don't think there is much question that their parade colors at least involves a lot of white though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 14 April 2014, 02:52:20
Wow, the Purifiers emblem is Really Nice, its kind like Zeta galaxys (RIP)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 14 April 2014, 12:50:21
It's like someone crossed a lynx with a sabertooth.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 April 2014, 12:59:35
Pretty sure that Warhammer had ERLLs, I will look for that book tonight.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 14 April 2014, 19:00:02
Target of Opportunity gives us descriptions of two Spirit Cat 'Mechs, complete with colours:

Star Captain Cox's (Pouncer Trinary, Purifiers) Warhammer IIC is "two shades of grey, and a long diagonal stripe of red across the torso like a sash of honour"

Star Captain Caitlin Bauer's (Stealth Cat Trinary, Omicron) Vulture mk III is "painted in the grey and white striped pattern of her Trinary".

IMO, Both fall within the range of the Spirit Cat colours in the MWDA CMG.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 14 April 2014, 20:05:20
Target of Opportunity gives us descriptions of two Spirit Cat 'Mechs, complete with colours:

Star Captain Cox's (Pouncer Trinary, Purifiers) Warhammer IIC is "two shades of grey, and a long diagonal stripe of red across the torso like a sash of honour"

Star Captain Caitlin Bauer's (Stealth Cat Trinary, Omicron) Vulture mk III is "painted in the grey and white striped pattern of her Trinary".

IMO, Both fall within the range of the Spirit Cat colours in the MWDA CMG.

That's what I was looking for, thanks!  O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 14 April 2014, 20:07:54
Did they ever say what happened to the Spirit Cats and Wolf's Dragoons on Outreach?  I've not completely read Era Digrest DA yet if its in there
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 14 April 2014, 20:11:44
I didn't see anything regarding their fate.  Only that their purpose on Outreach was unknown.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 14 April 2014, 20:49:12
If they were caught inside Fortress Republic, they would have either joined the RAF or been wiped out.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 23 April 2014, 19:39:10
guys i made today some colored Version of Clan Potectorate Insignias in my Insignia Topic : http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38510.msg894815#msg894815 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38510.msg894815#msg894815)


I have a question: Is the Clan Potectorate a fusion of Clan Spirit Cats and clan Sea Fox or an absorbtion or what ?
....or work them as mercenary for House Marik ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 23 April 2014, 20:04:36
The Clan Protectorate is a cooperative made up of Spirit Cats, Sea Foxes and locals, with the Spirit Cats set up as the dominant defenders.  It is NOT an absorption, nor are they mercenaries.  They are a semi-independent faction within the greater FWL charged with defence of a specific region.

At least, that's my read on it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 23 April 2014, 20:30:40
Who have the main order ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 23 April 2014, 20:32:56
Spirit Cats, under Galaxy Commander Rikkard Nova Cat (that's right, no bloodname).  Each world still sends an MP to the FWL parliament.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 23 April 2014, 20:45:59
@Jaim

And is Rikkard Nova Cat main order for the Clan Sea Fox Khanate too ? O_O
Quote
3138–3139
 Jessica Marik forges an alliance with Clan Sea Fox and invades Atreus.
 Jessica Marik is installed as Captain-General of a reborn Free Worlds League.

I understand it right the Diamond Sharks / Sea Fox stationed there only with 1 Khanat, and not with all Galaxys right ?

@Topic fists post:

 - Clan Burrock is reborn in the  Wars of Reavings by the Rebell Society
 - Clan Smoke Jaguar have still survivors in Bandit Caste
 - Clan Wolverine have sure survivors ;)

... also why not the Blood Spirits or the Vipers ?
But a reuse of them Blood Lines, i dont think so.
The most I.S. Clans dont like the Vipers and the Spirits.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 23 April 2014, 21:41:13
@Jaim

And is Rikkard Nova Cat main order for the Clan Sea Fox Khanate too ? O_O

I understand it right the Diamond Sharks / Sea Fox are there only with 1 Khanat not with all galaxys right ?


Sea Fox and Spirit Cats are and remain two separate Clans.  Neither is the Boss of the other but they have what you'd call a working alliance.  Cats do most of the fighting, and the Foxes handle the logistics.  Both are really fragments of their former Clans and need a safety zone to restore and rebuild in.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 23 April 2014, 21:57:32
Both are really fragments of their former Clans and need a safety zone to restore and rebuild in.

That description doesn't really apply to the Sea Fox part of the Protectorate. They are a whole and vital Aimag, not a fragment that needs to restore and rebuild.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 April 2014, 22:21:18
In the era report the roleplaying rules section singles out delta aimag, but mentions all of spina khanate getting a trade advantage with Marik governments.

Also, Petr Kalasa is the ovkhan of Spina Khanate, considering that he and Rikkard are besties that would most likely put the six aimags of Spina behind the protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 23 April 2014, 22:26:03
Delta is the only Aimag directly involved in running the Protectorate.

Either way, though, they aren't a fragment that needs to restore and rebuild.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 23 April 2014, 23:03:48
Quote
Sea Fox and Spirit Cats are and remain two separate Clans.  Neither is the Boss of the other but they have what you'd call a working alliance.  Cats do most of the fighting, and the Foxes handle the logistics.  Both are really fragments of their former Clans and need a safety zone to restore and rebuild in.

You forgotten:

In October 3136, Delta Aimag was contacted by Spirit Cats Expedition commander, Star Colonel Rikkard from transport to Marik-Stewart Commonwealth world of Marik. Delta's command ship, Voidswimmer maintained contact with the Spirit Cats expedition to claim the world as save haven for the sub-Clan.

In April 3137, Rikkard contacted Delta Aimag's commander ovKhan Petr Kalasa and cuts deal to share the planet between both Clans. Delta deploys military forces to secure the planet.
Spina Khanate helped the Spirit Cats take control of the Marik system. [ Era Report: 3145, p. 66]

Later the Spirit Cats offered the use of Marik as a trading world, and the Spina Khanate accepted.
Making way for Marik to become a new-colony for the Sea Foxes.
Reconstruction is done with efforts both Delta personnel and Spirit Cat enclave.
This led to the creation of the Clan Protectorate. [Era Report: 3145, p. 67]

3138  Captain-General Jessica Marik of Oriente Protektorat forges an alliance with Clan Sea Fox  and invades Atreus.
Jessica Marik is installed as Captain-General of a reborn Free Worlds League.
However, Lady Julietta offer more honorable solution of feeling like being used as mercenaries.
Under direction Lady Julietta, Delta Aimag and the Spirit Cats help form a new political nation known as Clan Protectorate. This created new trade markets which Delta would be handling Clan Protectorate member's worlds economic output.

3139 Jessica Marik become with help from Clan Protectorate Captain-General of the new FWL.
 - Protectorate Coalition
 - Covenant Worlds
 - Clan Protectorate
 - Oriente Protectorate
 - Rim Commonalty
 - Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey


Some Questions from me:
What is a Khanat ?
What is an Aimag ?
What relation have this Aimag and Khanate with the Galaxys from Warden Clans book ?

...i am a little confused over this and this ovKhans !?!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Øystein on 24 April 2014, 03:38:55
Khanate = Galaxy
Aimag = Cluster

In rough terms.

Øystein
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WeaponX on 24 April 2014, 05:26:19
Some Questions from me:
What is a Khanat ?
What is an Aimag ?
What relation have this Aimag and Khanate with the Galaxys from Warden Clans book ?

...i am a little confused over this and this ovKhans !?!

A Khanate is a Galaxy+ sized organization led by a saKhan (the Sea Foxes have 4 saKhans and 1 Khan, each leading a seperate Khanate), Khanates are broken down into Aimags led by an ovKhan (could be as much as you want, though generally there are around 4-5 ovKhans a Khanate).  Aimags can have Star Colonels and below, though now that I think about it, if Khanates equates to Galaxies, then Aimags should equate to "Super Clusters" if some of them are big enough to have Star Colonels, since Star Colonels are supposed to command Clusters etc.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 April 2014, 09:51:53
Delta is the only Aimag directly involved in running the Protectorate.

Either way, though, they aren't a fragment that needs to restore and rebuild.

Is there a seperation between the spirit cats and the protectorate? Are they two distinct organizations or are the spirit cats formally considered the clan protectorate?

Omicron Cluster was founded by Sea Fox personnel  after a trial. Did these foxes secede, or are they technically Sea Foxes serving in the protectorate?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 24 April 2014, 10:45:57
Is there a seperation between the spirit cats and the protectorate? Are they two distinct organizations or are the spirit cats formally considered the clan protectorate?

The Spirit Cats and the Clan Protectorate are not the same thing, no. They own Marik outright (or jointly with Spina Delta) and extend their protection to the other worlds. As Julietta described a protectorate to them: "a form of governance in which a stronger world protects others. True, they control the protected world's dealings with other planets, but the world itself is autonomous." (To Ride the Chimera, p172)

Quote
Omicron Cluster was founded by Sea Fox personnel  after a trial. Did these foxes secede, or are they technically Sea Foxes serving in the protectorate?

The Sea Foxes have shown that they allow external affiliations without breaking the bonds of Clanship. For instance, Antoinette Labov served in the RAF before taking up service in one of the Aimags. Omicron serves the defense of the Protectorate but they are still part of the Clan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: snewsom2997 on 24 April 2014, 11:03:17
The Spirit Cats and the Clan Protectorate are not the same thing, no. They own Marik outright (or jointly with Spina Delta) and extend their protection to the other worlds. As Julietta described a protectorate to them: "a form of governance in which a stronger world protects others. True, they control the protected world's dealings with other planets, but the world itself is autonomous." (To Ride the Chimera, p172)

The Sea Foxes have shown that they allow external affiliations without breaking the bonds of Clanship. For instance, Antoinette Labov served in the RAF before taking up service in one of the Aimags. Omicron serves the defense of the Protectorate but they are still part of the Clan.

So are Spirit Cats and Spina Delta turning into the Dark Age version of the AMC?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 April 2014, 11:37:52
The Wolf Empire is pretty disinterested right now but it could be said that the spirit cats and sea foxes are holding them at bay.

But its not quite the political trap it was in the lyran commonwealth.

The free worlds league is a league of small nation states working together. Very similar to the holy roman empire.

So what the clan protectorate has done is taken over the old Marik stewart Commonwealth and replaced it with another sub state.

So they receive votes in free worlds league parliament. They are another free worlds league nation state now.

Here is hoping that it continues. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 24 April 2014, 21:02:52
Yeah, so here's how the Protectorate works.

You have 7 planets within the substate of the Clan Protectorate.  You also have three Clans.

The Spirit Cats (and Nova Cats I would assume) own Marik outright.  They probably get to choose who to send to Parliament as Marik's MP.  The Sea Foxes have depots and supplies on Marik, and Delta Aimag is located there.

The other six planets in the Clan Protectorate manage their own affairs, but in exchange for the Spirit Cats/Delta Aimag protecting them from external enemies, they give the Sea Foxes monopolies on hocking their goods in the rest of the Inner Sphere.  They don't have to provide their own military as the Spirit Cats/Sea Foxes manage that stuff for them.  Citizens from all 7 planets though can be part of the Clan Protectorate military through the Protectorate Clusters.

Clan Spirit Cat and Nova Cat manage their own affairs separate from all the other planet's governance.  Sea Fox Spina Khanate does their own thing.  They really come together to protect all the member states of the Clan Protectorate, otherwise it's do as you will.

Now the interesting question is how do the Spirit Cats and Nova Cats manage their affairs.  There are more Spirit Cats than Nova Cats in the Protectorate; it's been 8 years since Rikkard and his Clusters took Marik.  By now they must have started to reform a Clan Council, started clan governance again, tried to get the scientist caste to set up breeding programs.  The Nova Cats only consist of 45 mechwarriors (well, non-mech forces are unmentioned of course in the FM3145, so there will probably be more Elementals, tankers, aerospace, etc.) and civilians who fled the Republic with them.  Are the Nova Cats in the Spirit Cats Clan Council?  Or are they trying to maintain their own separate council from the Spirit Cat "cultists"?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 25 April 2014, 15:20:16
The Sea Fox are part of the Council of Six and they are ally with Oriente Protectorat and Clan Spirit Cats

The Clan Spirtis Cats have cut all relations with the Republic of Sphere.

28.04.3137 Rikkard Nova Cat from Clan Spirit Cats contacted Clan Sea Fox ovKhan Petr Kalasa for military assistance in securing Marik. In exchange, the world would become a co-occupied world and Clan Sea Fox warehouse world.

Oriente Protectorate's Captain-General Jessica Marik sent a request to Marik on April 28th, 3138.
The request was a petition for the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes  to assist in garrisoning nearby worlds.
Lady Julietta whom has become Political Aide to Clan enclave, suggested they see it in a different light.
She instructed them on the concept of what a Protectorate is. 
She suggests, taking up the request, but handling it differently.
Inviting the worlds they have been asked to garrison to join them as part of a new Protectorate,
which becomes known as the Clan Protectorate.

When the Protectorate help form the new Free Worlds League they dont need any Council they have own Voices inside the League.

But i wonders where you read some Clan Nova Cat Members go inside the Protectorate?
So mutch i know the Nova Cats are anihilated by House Kurita, or i'm wrong ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 25 April 2014, 15:39:22
You have 7 planets within the substate of the Clan Protectorate.  You also have three Clans.

The Spirit Cats (and Nova Cats I would assume) own Marik outright.  They probably get to choose who to send to Parliament as Marik's MP.  The Sea Foxes have depots and supplies on Marik, and Delta Aimag is located there.

Not sure where you're getting 3 clans from. Delta Aimag is part of Spina Khanate which is part of Clan Sea Fox.

The Spirit Cats are a splinter faction of Clan Nova Cat.

Clan Nova Cat was destroyed by the Draconis Combine.

There are only 2 clans in the Clan Protectorate although some argue the Spirit Cats aren't a true clan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 25 April 2014, 16:50:20
It's probably worth mentioning that the Nova Cat Provisional Cluster is composed of Republic refugees from Nova Cat enclaves.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 25 April 2014, 18:18:33
Not sure where you're getting 3 clans from. Delta Aimag is part of Spina Khanate which is part of Clan Sea Fox.

The Spirit Cats are a splinter faction of Clan Nova Cat.

Clan Nova Cat was destroyed by the Draconis Combine.

There are only 2 clans in the Clan Protectorate although some argue the Spirit Cats aren't a true clan.

Actually, as far as the rest of the Inner Sphere is concerned, there is only one Clan in the Protectorate. Clan Sharkfox. The rest is too dependent on them to count.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Ratwedge on 25 April 2014, 18:47:59
Actually, as far as the rest of the Inner Sphere is concerned, there is only one Clan in the Protectorate. Clan Sharkfox. The rest is too dependent on them to count.

Curiously, where does it state this in FM: 3145? Sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 25 April 2014, 19:17:16

But i wonders where you read some Clan Nova Cat Members go inside the Protectorate?
So mutch i know the Nova Cats are anihilated by House Kurita, or i'm wrong ?

EM3145 and more important FM3145, where it mentions ROTS refugees of Nova Cat origin fleeing to the Protectorate.  Enough in fact to make up 3 trinaries of mechwarriors, and of course the hundreds or thousands of lower castemembers who accompanied them.

Quote from: Molossian Dog IIC
Actually, as far as the rest of the Inner Sphere is concerned, there is only one Clan in the Protectorate. Clan Sharkfox. The rest is too dependent on them to count.

Incorrect.  Even Clan Wolf recognizes the Spirit Cats as the top Clan in the Protectorate, as in Bonfire of Worlds when Alaric Wolf mentions that attacking through that area will bring them into fierce contact with the Spirit Cats, not the Sea Foxes.

The Spirit Cats outright own Marik, and they're in charge there.  The Spirit Cats are not really dependent on anyone.  And given that they are contributing to the bulk of the Protectorate Touman, I would say if anything the other two Clans are more independent on them for holding the Protectorate together.  Ultimately though it's a partnership between the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes.


Quote from: Baron Redskull
There are only 2 clans in the Clan Protectorate although some argue the Spirit Cats aren't a true clan.

Some might, although most Spirit Cat characters seem to be pretty specific on the fact that they are a separate Clan.  Still, they call themselves Nova Cats.  The Nova Cats in the Protectorate meanwhile don't seem to trust the SC much.  I think another book will have to come out before the SC-NC thing is definitively decided.  Probably will also involve Kisho.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 25 April 2014, 20:00:45
It is quite simple. Can the Spirit Cats do anything that the Sharkfoxes would disapprove of?

The Sharkfoxes might think it convenient to let the Spirit Cats guard their stuff and handle the non lucrative day to day administration of the troublesome Spheroids.

But independence is wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 25 April 2014, 20:32:01
Love the conversation on this thread.   O0  And why wouldn't I?

But I wanted to make mention of something regarding the idea of what it means to be a "real Clan", since it keeps coming up. 

There have been several Clans that are regarded by the others (and by certain fans) as not being a true Clan.  Wolves-in-Exile, the Nova Cats after their Abjuration from the Home Worlds, and the Spirit Cats are the prime examples.  Many fans insist that these are not true Clans, yet in canon, these factions and their constituents most certainly see their selves as Clan and behave accordingly.   

I think as the timeline marches on, whatever "line" delineated a true Clan from a false Clan blurs from existence.  At the end of the day, a Clan is as a Clan does, to paraphrase Hollywood wisdom. 

To me, the true mark of what a Clan is and what a Clan is not is much simpler.  If a faction behaves as a Clan and claims to be such, then that is what they are.  Until they are destroyed, they are what they are.  Simple existentialism.  Once they are no more, then they are no longer a Clan.  Even the Spirit Cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 25 April 2014, 20:36:55
@Molossian Dog IIC

You ignored my response.  Other Inner Sphere powers when they are talking of the Clan Protectorate have referred to it as more a Spirit Cat thing than a Sea Fox thing.  If you can't disprove this using the story, please acknowledge my point.

Secondly;

The Spirit Cats have five Clusters of Battletechs, plus armor, battle armor, and aerospace assets in the Protectorate. 

The Sea Foxes have 1-2 Clusters (Delta Aimag and Omicron Cluster) of equivalents.


Furthermore, two other points.  Rikkard Nova Cat and Petr Kalasa of the Spina Khanate are best buddies.  There's no rivalry for who is top dog in the Clan Protectorate because both Clans are working together to ensure they have a place in the FWL.  And also, Clan Sea Fox is not interested in geo-political control, but rather economic.  They already have that in the Protectorate.  Why would they bother to start telling the SC/CNC what to do when the interests of the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes perfectly align?

This just seems like a strange effort from you to put the Spirit Cats down for... misguided Sea Fox Patriotic reasons?  I dunno.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WeaponX on 25 April 2014, 20:49:18
To me, the true mark of what a Clan is and what a Clan is not is much simpler.  If a faction behaves as a Clan and claims to be such, then that is what they are.  Until they are destroyed, they are what they are.  Simple existentialism.  Once they are no more, then they are no longer a Clan.  Even the Spirit Cats.

It might be that way to you, but "in universe", the Inner Sphere Clans only recognize those who belong to the "Council of Six" as true Clans.  That leaves out the Wolves in Exile, Nova Cats and their splinter faction the "Spirit Cats".

A loophole to get around this and get recognized as a "true clan" might be to get the Sea Foxes to "absorb" them and then immediately split them off into a new Clan called the "Spirit Cats".
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 25 April 2014, 20:54:39
It's also worth noting that the Spirit Cats do not yet identify themselves as 'Clan Spirit Cat.'  Culturally and genetically they are Clan, which is partly why the Wolf Empire and Sea Foxes deal with them as such.  Spheroids really won't understand the nuances, as witnessed by their constant reference to the Spirit Cats as 'cultists.'

I'd call them a Clan related group personally, akin to the Exiles, Dragoons or Fidelis.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 25 April 2014, 21:05:00
Actually, several Spirit Cat characters in the novels have mentioned that they are indeed a separate Clan from the Nova Cats.  Cox Nova Cat (later Devalis) in Target of Opportunity said something to the effect that they were Nova Cats and "and yet not.  We share customs, but we have others that are all our own".

Don't have my books with me right now otherwise I'd have the exact wording.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 25 April 2014, 21:05:26
It might be that way to you, but "in universe", the Inner Sphere Clans only recognize those who belong to the "Council of Six" as true Clans.  That leaves out the Wolves in Exile, Nova Cats and their splinter faction the "Spirit Cats".

"In universe", ehhh? 

To the Wolves in exile, the Nova Cats (RIP), and the Spirit Cats (long may they prowl), they are Clan.  No one else has proved them wrong.

And from what I'm given to understand, the council of six is either an impotent body or it no longer exists as of 3145. 

And besides, of course the Wolves and Falcons and even the Bears won't recognize these entities as such, they are stuck on their selves now.  The Rasalhague Dominion should not be pointing claws or fingers at anyone else to deny their Clanhood.

If a faction claims it is a Clan and acts as a Clan, then they are a Clan.  Opinions of other Clans only matter as much as they can enforce their point of view.  If they are not doing so or cannot do so, then their point is clearly not a good one to hold by all Clan standards.

It's also worth noting that the Spirit Cats do not yet identify themselves as 'Clan Spirit Cat.'  Culturally and genetically they are Clan, which is partly why the Wolf Empire and Sea Foxes deal with them as such.  Spheroids really won't understand the nuances, as witnessed by their constant reference to the Spirit Cats as 'cultists.'

I'd call them a Clan related group personally, akin to the Exiles, Dragoons or Fidelis.

Good point, they are not officially Clan Spirit Cat...  but do the Wolves-in-Exile call their selves a Clan-related faction?  Or is that a fan conceit?  I know what one it most resembles. 

Besides, aren't the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate?  The Sea Foxes seem to have little problems dealing with them on the level of a fellow Clan.  The other Clans are just being narrow-minded, it seems.     
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 25 April 2014, 21:38:53
@Molossian Dog IIC
...
First, I can assure you that I don´t disregard the Spirit Cats because of any patriotic feelings towards the Sharkfoxes. Actually it is quite the opposite. As much as I consider the Spirit Cat occupation of former FWL territory, especially Marik, an affront, it is the Sharkfoxes I see as the real threat to the interests of the people of the former League. The Spirit Cats are merely their front.

Second, what the public thinks of who runs the show in the Protectorate means little. In terms of power politics, if anyone needs something, he -deals- with the Sharkfoxes, not the Cats. Because that is what they do. Making deals.
I bet you noticed what major inroads they have made in almost any IS state, only the CapCon being an exception. Whole regions are dependent on their commerce and they have made themselves indispendable to almost all militaries, supplying them -and their enemies- with clan tech. Their combined fleets and possessions are of unknown strenght, but certainly far outnumber whatever handful of clusters the Spirit Cats can whip together in the Protectorate. They have transport assets, factories, access to resources and connections all over the IS and beyond. We can take for granted that they virtually control the Chainlaine Islands and we would be wise to look closely what kind of scenario they set up when they are calling the shots unmolested.

In other words they are the power behind the throne of the Protectorate. Actually they aim to be the power behind many a throne. They are BT´s version of the mob. The Protectorate is just one of their many projects. People will turn towards them to deal because they have so much more to offer than that couple of worlds.

Also I wouldn´t rely on a personal friendship, especially in a society where an upstart Ristar can remove one of the friends at any given time.

Quote
There's no rivalry for who is top dog in the Clan Protectorate because both Clans are working together to ensure they have a place in the FWL.
I think you are quite mistaken in this regard. There is no rivalry for who is top dog, because that question is settled already.
And reconsider the last part again. A place in the FWL? Who exactly needs a place? Is it the refugee Spirit Cats whose mother clan is dead, whose former home is inaccessible and whose former brethren abjured them - or is the Sharkfoxes who geared up for space gipsy life since decades, have bases all over the IS, are promised even more and a whole cluster of planets under their thumb in the periphery?

The Sharkfox-Spirit Cat relationship is stable at the moment, not because the Sharkfoxes are benign, but because the Cats are -currently- doing what furthers Sharfox interests. Should they develop other ideas the relationship would change rapidly.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 25 April 2014, 22:09:10
Incorrect.  Even Clan Wolf recognizes the Spirit Cats as the top Clan in the Protectorate, as in Bonfire of Worlds when Alaric Wolf mentions that attacking through that area will bring them into fierce contact with the Spirit Cats, not the Sea Foxes.

Whats funny is that I did not remember him mentioning the Spirit Cats. But he does mention both.

Quote from: Alaric Wolf - Bonfire Of Worlds
"Excuse me, Archon," said Alaric, cutting the man off. "You are planning to attack the Spirit Cats and Clan Sea Fox? That is most ambitious."
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 25 April 2014, 22:21:01
If a faction claims it is a Clan and acts as a Clan, then they are a Clan.  Opinions of other Clans only matter as much as they can enforce their point of view.  If they are not doing so or cannot do so, then their point is clearly not a good one to hold by all Clan standards.

This is the only really important distinction on whether a clan is a clan or not. Is whether they think that they are and act like one. Whether the Council of Six disagrees with you. If you think you are clan, then you are. The Inner Sphere does not see a distinction like the Council of Six when they view those cultures.

Quote
Besides, aren't the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate?  The Sea Foxes seem to have little problems dealing with them on the level of a fellow Clan.  The other Clans are just being narrow-minded, it seems.   

The Wolf Empire treats the Spirit Cats as a Clan.

Rikkard actually presumes that they are still a part of Clan Nova Cat, even if they are a cult inside of it. In fact, every single Spirit Cat in, "To Ride the Chimera' that doesn't have a bloodname, including Rikkard Nova Cat has the surname Nova Cat.

Here is a quote of some relevance,

Quote from:
Enclaves of Nova Cats in the Inner Sphere had long been isolated from the larger Clan, and some of those independent groups had undergone a transformation: no longer able to envision their future as traditional members of the Nova Cat Clan, they sought a separate life elsewhere. Their blood remained the blood of the Nova Cats, however; there was not, and might never be, a Clan Spirit Cat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WeaponX on 25 April 2014, 22:22:12
"In universe", ehhh? 

To the Wolves in exile, the Nova Cats (RIP), and the Spirit Cats (long may they prowl), they are Clan.  No one else has proved them wrong.

And from what I'm given to understand, the council of six is either an impotent body or it no longer exists as of 3145.   

The thing is that the non Council of Six "Clans" might be treated as "Clans" by members of the Council of Six by their individual discretion, but if they cross the line like trial for bloodheritages or some other Clan sensitive matter from the Council of Six Clans, they would probably get a negative response and open themselves up for an instant Trial of Annihilation since the Council of Six doesn't need to vote on that issue if you are a "Clan" that isn't a member of the Council of Six.  In other words it would be like they're constantly looking over their shoulder when dealing with "real" Clans because they could turn on them at the drop of a hat at the slightest perceived slight.  Just look at the treatment the Bears gave to the Nova Cats in the 2nd Bear-Combine war for an example on how a "pseudo" Clan gets treated when a "true" Clan gets mad at them. 

As I mentioned previously, the way the Spirit Cats can gain equality with the "true" Clans is if they go through the absorption and division into a new Clan process (you can look at it as being "baptized" into becoming a "true" Clan) with the help of Clan Sea Fox.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 25 April 2014, 22:52:31
Field Manual 3145 page 109
Quote
The Clan Protectorate military comprises disparate elements from the Spirit Cats, Clan Nova Cat, Clan Sea Fox (née Diamond Shark), and various native inhabitants of the Clan Protectorate worlds.

The Rest of the Nova Cats are now in the First Nova Cat Provisionals. (That is cool!)
But they are only rests from teh Republic all by Kurita dies.

some Familar is to find in Erea Report 3145 page 183

FM3145 Page 97 is said
Quote
The Spirit Cats seem to revel in Clan-versus-Clan engagements, ...
The show me that the Spirit Cats are a Clan!

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 25 April 2014, 22:52:48
They are BT´s version of the mob.

I disagree with this. Maybe BT's version of the East India Trading Company, but they have not yet, unless they start doing the things that Ben Rome has written in his april fools outline, done anything of the sort.

Clan Sea Fox has a sort of natural check and balance on itself in so far as that 1. They are a Clan. So they will try to act as honorably as possible... and 2. They are a Clan whose Totem Animal seems to bow to its opponent. Making them attempt to act even more honorably. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that they don't have the potential to be a grave threat. But they aren't even white collar criminals right now...

Quote
Also I wouldn´t rely on a personal friendship, especially in a society where an upstart Ristar can remove one of the friends at any given time.

Nobody is going to attack Rikkard. He's the spirit cat version of a messiah. Well, there was Janis Nova Cat. But she's dead now. That was arguably pre-ascension.

Petr Kalasa is on his way to being Mori Hawker's replacement I'd bet.

Quote
The Sharkfox-Spirit Cat relationship is stable at the moment, not because the Sharkfoxes are benign, but because the Cats are -currently- doing what furthers Sharfox interests. Should they develop other ideas the relationship would change rapidly.

If you ignore the last two hundred plus years of Clan Sea Fox. They got over their operation Klondike grudges naturally and even when Clan Snow Raven slaughtered their totem animal because someone made fun of them on the chatterweb hard all they did was fleece them... and now they have a good relationship with them.

Clan Sea Fox likes allies. If they can make the Spirit Cats stronger... while profiting off of it. Thus gaining a Stronger ally... they will do it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 25 April 2014, 23:24:57
MechWarrior: Dark Age - Dossiers and Pilot Cards : JANIS NOVA CAT

Quote
She claims that during her Trial of Position,
which gained her entry into the Purifiers, she had a
vision of the glory she would reap for herself and her
Clan
;

There is Told that the Spirits Cats are a Clan

MechWarrior: Dark Age - Dossiers and Pilot Cards : MARAT DELEPORTAS

Quote
A self-described pragmatist, but
a Spirit Cat above all, Marat has dedicated his life
to perfecting himself as a warrior, putting all other
concerns aside in the name of serving his Clan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 26 April 2014, 08:48:40
I disagree with this. Maybe BT's version of the East India Trading Company...
My point was that in the enterprise of the Protectorate the Spirit Cats are the junior partner. And the Sharkfoxes the power behind the throne. If you prefer the East India Trading Company as a comparison, that works for me as well. It had junior partners as well. Quite dependent ones, I might add.

...
Nobody is going to attack Rikkard. He's the spirit cat version of a messiah. Well, there was Janis Nova Cat. But she's dead now. That was arguably pre-ascension.

Petr Kalasa is on his way to being Mori Hawker's replacement I'd bet.
...
Might be, might not. Still, leadership changes resulting in quite drastic policy changes is actually something the clan system is reknown for. And leadership changes can happen rapidly. I think I don´t have to cite examples of this.

...
Clan Sea Fox likes allies. If they can make the Spirit Cats stronger... while profiting off of it. Thus gaining a Stronger ally... they will do it.
The Protectorate is an investment. I concur. Actually this is the main reason the Spirit Cats will not be allowed independence. Should the Cats get ideas of their own which are not 100% in line with Sharkfox interests the Sharkfoxes would tighten the screws quickly. And they have quite a few screws to hurt the Cats with, if they were so inclined.
They wouldn´t even have to rely on something as crude as actual threats or violence to make the Cats comply.

We can talk about how the Spirit Cats profit from this arrangement, but that doesn´t change the nature of the arrangement. Not one of equal partners, but one of lord and vassal.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 26 April 2014, 11:25:52
Yeah, you really need to support your argument with source references because none of what you claim as the Foxes' attitude and goals is at all supported in anything that's been published. I have no idea where you're getting all this from, but it is most definitely not an accurate depiction of the Foxes.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 26 April 2014, 11:37:04
Quote
My point was that in the enterprise of the Protectorate the Spirit Cats are the junior partner. And the Sharkfoxes the power behind the throne.

I think not i think is a 50% to 50% rule in a good partnership.
Clan Sea Fox can't move the Entrire Clan why they lose than the other holdings.
The clan is too scattered and therefore can not fight as a whole at one point.

For the sharks, is the Protectorate very lookrativ, they have opened new markets ( From the protectorate they can even reach Liao ) and haus marik can't thwart or disturb their clan fights with other factions (by the others holdings) because they are on same side now.

But the ally with the Sharks bring Clan Spirit Cats in a more save position.
I think Rickard & Petr rule the protectorate like real good Friends and show a the perfect coexistence of two clans.

Die Katzen behalten ihre autonomy.
Dies wird nur eingeschränkt durch die Partnerschaft in der beiden Clans wenn sie mal nicht gleicher Meinung sind, müssen sie ein Compromiss anstreben.

The cats keep their autonomy.
This is only restricted by the partnership of the two clans when they are not even the same opinion, they must strive for a Compromise.
But Molossian Dog IIC your comparison with the Company is out of place.

Quote
The Protectorate is an investment.
With this i agree you but the alliance with Marik and the Cats too!
The sharks are smart enough to know that in addition to profit good allies are important.

...more to this deeper by "After all, what if"!

NOVA CATS:
What you guys think will the Nova Cats be absorbed by the Spirit Cats ?
I think: *So long this Cluster exists, the Clan still exist too and is not annihilated.*


After all, what if:
When the shark and the cats have Strife

Fist both Stand aginst each other the Nova Cats stand on side of Spirit Cats than.
The entire Sea Fox Clan can not move in this war but sure get support by other Khante or Aimags.
Then i am sure the Spirit Cats ask the Oriente Protectorat or complete LFW for help.
But in Same turn the Ghost Bears and Snow Ravens are good Ally of the Seafoxes. (could be a cool war)

One thing is clear both sides become heavily damaged.

The First and Second Protectorate Guardians (Unity in Strength) would be fight them self.
Tehy are build with FWL people and commanded by Sharks and Cat Commanders.
This shows me that they should work well together, and this bring me back to my meaning from before:
Both show a the perfect coexistence of two clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 26 April 2014, 12:52:05
Yeah, you really need to support your argument with source references because none of what you claim as the Foxes' attitude and goals is at all supported in anything that's been published. I have no idea where you're getting all this from, but it is most definitely not an accurate depiction of the Foxes.
Take, for example, all of the TROs of 3145. Everyone and their dog is buying clan tech from the Sharkfoxes. The amount of gear going through their hands annualy must be huge.

I think that fact alone suffices to point out that the Shark Foxes are more influental, richer, better connected, have more production capacity at their hands, more know how and more personnel than the Spirit Cats. Not to speak of transportation assets or actual fleet assets. (of which the Spirit Cats seem to have none at all)

So, in the project that is the Clan Protectorate you have two partners. One strong and one not. Dependency is the natural result of such a constellation.

If you think this last part nothing but conjecture, well, in that case we can safely agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 26 April 2014, 13:29:17
Except that is only the Delta Aimag of the Spina Khanate that is involved with the Clan Protectorate.  The Khanates all do their own thing and aren't going to come together to run the Protectorate.  That again leaves 1-2 Sea Fox Clusters worth of Warriors and merchants in the Protectorate as opposed to 5 SC/CNC.  You're treating Clan Sea Fox as a monolithic entity, while in fact the Clan is pretty badly fragmented, having had two coup attempts on Khan Mori Hawker, and has really avoided any more problems because all the Khanates are off and about selling things in different sectors of the Inner Sphere.

To put it frankly, the Clan does best together as a whole when they aren't working closely together.  To suggest that they're all going to come together to command the Protectorate is just ignoring how the Clan works now in the Dark Ages.

No one here who identifies with the Protectorate is trying to get "top dog", or supreme Clan status, this is a partnership between Clans.  And if you continue to insist on it otherwise, I think the Sea Foxes and we Spirit Cats would be only too happy to show you the door. ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 26 April 2014, 16:32:02
I agree Captain of C-21

Have i seen right Steel Wolves are on Holt in FWL ?
   I read there: Steel Wolves (m)
   FM 3145  by maps   
They do some Mercenary work or what  means this m ?
FM 3145 page 182 i can read they are 1 cluste big under NOTABLE MERCENARY FORCES - FREE WORLDS LEAGUE

What is 3145 teh Relation between Dragons Fury and spirit Cats ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 26 April 2014, 17:44:41
IIRC, when Tassa K. took over the steel wolves, they went merc. though she eventually split with them and formed the wolfhunters. i guess the remaining steel wolves that didn't follow her went kept to mercenary work
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 April 2014, 19:47:37
The Khanates all do their own thing and aren't going to come together to run the Protectorate.

Not completely true. Clan Wolf learned his themselves when they attacked an aimag fleet and several khanates came together to wipe out one of their clusters.

 
Quote
That again leaves 1-2 Sea Fox Clusters worth of Warriors and merchants in the Protectorate as opposed to 5 SC/CNC.

6 clusters in spina, keep in mind omicron cluster is mixed. Not that it matters. We would not fight. I know you are trying to explain how the protectorate isnt under sea fox control, its not by the way. Petr really likes Rikkard and Julietta. But this is the wrong way to prove it. Keep in mind that the protectorate exists because clan sea fox had their trade partners acknowledge their soveirenty.

Quote
You're treating Clan Sea Fox as a monolithic entity

Not yet. Maybe, almost

Quote
while in fact the Clan is pretty badly fragmented, having had two coup attempts on Khan Mori Hawker,

Only one. With the clan expanding and the lack of communication we are losing cohesion. Sha Clarke did try to kill mori but the undercurrent is being managed by the watch and through warrior trials.

Quote
and has really avoided any more problems because all the Khanates are off and about selling things in different sectors of the Inner Sphere.

Being managed by appropriate warriors and the watch until communications are restored. Petr Kalasa or Antoinette replacing Mori would be a good step.

Quote
To put it frankly, the Clan does best together as a whole when they aren't working closely together.  To suggest that they're all going to come together to command the Protectorate is just ignoring how the Clan works now in the Dark Ages.

It would be massively out of character for clan sea fox.

Quote
No one here who identifies with the Protectorate is trying to get "top dog", or supreme Clan status, this is a partnership between Clans.

This is true. :)

The thing is that even if they are practicing mercantalism, clan sea fox has read Adam Smith. They arent unaware that multiple organizations can become wealthy simultaneously.

Its a clan that also values all of its parts. It knows that every single caste is important for the 'Clan' to be healthy.

Well two clans can be one organism. One group. For the 'Clan Protectorate' to be strong it is going to need strong provincial forces. Well if Clan Spirit Cat is strong and Clan Sea Fox is strong then the protectorate is strong.

It is one group... and the Spirit Cats possess labor forces in both lower castes and in warriors in that region that clan sea fox doesnt have. Alienating the spirit cats, getting in a fight over the protectorate is not good for business...

And also, we do not get stronger at other clans expense!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 27 April 2014, 00:10:21
And also, we do not get stronger at other clans expense!

Yep, we never once got stronger at the expense of Clan Jade Falcon  ^-^

And no one reveled in the Shark Foxes doing it to the turkeys, either  ;)

The Clan Protectorate: It Pays to be a Member.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 April 2014, 00:23:56
 . . . please do a fake advert with the Protectorate Express . . .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 27 April 2014, 00:26:52
The Clan Protectorate: It Pays to be a Member.

We have really nice golf courses ...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 27 April 2014, 08:46:52
...
To put it frankly, the Clan does best together as a whole when they aren't working closely together.  To suggest that they're all going to come together to command the Protectorate is just ignoring how the Clan works now in the Dark Ages....
If you had read closely what I wrote I didn´t suggest that at all. My points are a) the Sharkfoxes are way stronger than the Spirit Cats and b) that makes the Spirit Cats indebted and dependent on them. In fact they wouldn´t be on Marik without the Sharkfoxes in the first place.


... And if you continue to insist on it otherwise, I think the Sea Foxes and we Spirit Cats would be only too happy to show you the door. ;D
Last time I checked users don´t get to decide who expresses his opinions in what threads. But I might as well drop the issue since you seem to have made up your mind already. If you are happier thinking of the Spirit Cats and Sharkfoxes as equally powerful and don´t think it possible that the Foxes will ever stoop so low to use the leverage they have, who am I to tell you otherwise? Go ahead.


As a sidenote: A quick glance at the TROs and record sheets told me that the Sharkfoxes produce:
3 types of vehicles
11 types of Mechs
and provide parts for another 2 and 5 respectively.
Probably more because I didn´t bother to check the variants.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 27 April 2014, 10:31:58
I am of the opinion that the above mentioned faction Sharkfoxes is some sort of side story that diverges from the main line of Clan Sea Fox. 

The first mistake Molossian Dog IIC makes is in the belief that the Spirit Cats are weak just because they are small and few in number.  The second mistake is thinking the Cats are indebted to and dependent on the Foxes for anything.  The third seems to be one of confusing Distribution Centers and Supply Depots for Manufacturing Facilities and production of raw materials.

From all the accounts I've read (admitting that it is sparse and rare), Clan Sea Fox chose, like many others, to specialize in a certain field.  As Interstellar Master Traders, they do a fine job and fit a conceivable niche.  I've heard no reports prior to the "Clan Protectorate" of this Clan controlling even a single world of its own.  I could be wrong, and there might be many posts following this citing chapter and verse to prove it.  (Which is fine, that's what the forums are for, quiaff?)

Clan Nova Cat might be dead beyond resurrection, but the Spirit Cats remain and there is still hope that a few surviving Nova Cats might find their way to Marik Space.  This much about Spirit Cats I do know, they will not be dominated or absorbed by any other faction.  They are all veterans of many battles and no living Spirit Cat has ever lost a fight (hubris override button switched off).

If anyone really thinks they can impose a debt on the Spirit Cats, they are welcome to try.  I am sure the SCats will offer an exchange of equal value that can not be refused.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 27 April 2014, 11:32:05
From all the accounts I've read (admitting that it is sparse and rare), Clan Sea Fox chose, like many others, to specialize in a certain field.  As Interstellar Master Traders, they do a fine job and fit a conceivable niche. I've heard no reports prior to the "Clan Protectorate" of this Clan controlling even a single of its own.  I could be wrong, and there might be many posts following this citing chapter and verse to prove it.  (Which is fine, that's what the forums are for, quiaff?)
I am not sure what exactly are you talking about. A planet? The Diamond Sharks own or owned Twycross (Field Manual: Updates, p.12) and they used to own Trondheim and Itabaina, and they have serious influence over Chainelane Isles (Field Manual: 3145, p.151).

Clan Nova Cat might be dead beyond resurrection, but the Spirit Cats remain and there is still hope that a few surviving Nova Cats might find their way to Marik Space.  This much about Spirit Cats I do know, they will not be dominated or absorbed by any other faction.  They are all veterans of many battles and no living Spirit Cat has ever lost a fight (hubris override button switched off).
Actually, they lost some Trials:
TRO:3145 - FWL - "MechWarrior Julie of Clan Wolf ... defeated two Spirit Cats 'Mechs." (p.40) So you may be right: No living Spirit Cats ... because they possibly died in that lost Trial.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 27 April 2014, 14:34:09
I am not sure what exactly are you talking about. A planet? The Diamond Sharks own or owned Twycross (Field Manual: Updates, p.12) and they used to own Trondheim and Itabaina, and they have serious influence over Chainelane Isles (Field Manual: 3145, p.151).

Yes, I did mean world, will edit post to say that.  I stand corrected about those worlds, most of my reference books do not include events after the FedCom Civil War.  So, I must still catch up on a lot of things that lead to the Dark Age. 

Quote
Actually, they lost some Trials:
TRO:3145 - FWL - "MechWarrior Julie of Clan Wolf ... defeated two Spirit Cats 'Mechs." (p.40) So you may be right: No living Spirit Cats ... because they possibly died in that lost Trial.

Not knowing what was at stake in that trial, I'd have to agree.  Just one Wolf?  Or was that the only survivor?

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 27 April 2014, 14:47:25
Not knowing what was at stake in that trial, I'd have to agree.  Just one Wolf?  Or was that the only survivor?
GC

1) Both Era Report: 3145 and Field Manual: 3145 mention Trials Of Possession between the Wolves and the Spirit Cats. So it was probably during one of those Trials.

2) And there is one thing that's not going to make you happy: That Clan Wolf MechWarrior - who defeated two Spirit Cats - piloted "inferior" Spheroid machine (JLN-5A Juliano).  ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 27 April 2014, 16:35:55
What?  I was pretty sure the Juliano pilot mentioned in the FWL TRO was a Spirit Cat warrior, whose Star Commander had given her an Inner Sphere machine because he thought it was funny.  Pretty sure you got your Clans mixed up there Martian.

Besides, apparently the Spirit Cats have already repulsed at least one Clan Wolf attack on the Protectorate, as mentioned in one of the 3145 products.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: The Eagle on 27 April 2014, 16:43:44
What?  I was pretty sure the Juliano pilot mentioned in the FWL TRO was a Spirit Cat warrior, whose Star Commander had given her an Inner Sphere machine because he thought it was funny.  Pretty sure you got your Clans mixed up there Martian.

It doesn't actually specify which Clan Julie and her not-so-humorous Star Commander come from.  The wording of it -- referring to "her defeat of two Spirit Cat 'Mechs in a recent Trial" -- implies that she's from another Clan, which could mean she's a Sharkfox or a Wolf, being the only other two Clans that operate near the Protectorate (and both of whom could conceivably have Julianos; the Wolves as salvage from HAMMERFALL, the Sharkfoxes in trade with the FWL).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 27 April 2014, 16:49:05
What?  I was pretty sure the Juliano pilot mentioned in the FWL TRO was a Spirit Cat warrior, whose Star Commander had given her an Inner Sphere machine because he thought it was funny.  Pretty sure you got your Clans mixed up there Martian.

How I understand it, this MechWarior Julie is from some Clan Wolf second-line Cluster.

Why do you think that the author mentioned specifically the fact that the Clan Wolf uses salvaged Julianos (plus the info from both primary 3145 sourcebooks about hard-fought Trials between the CW and the Spirit Cats) in the same entry?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 27 April 2014, 16:58:52
All right, I asked a question here:
MechWarrior Julie (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,38984.0.html)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 April 2014, 19:35:29
Last time I checked users don´t get to decide who expresses his opinions in what threads.

I've noticed a trend with Nova Cat players to be quite in character on the boards...

Quote
As a sidenote: A quick glance at the TROs and record sheets told me that the Sharkfoxes produce:
3 types of vehicles
11 types of Mechs
and provide parts for another 2 and 5 respectively.
Probably more because I didn´t bother to check the variants.

We had our hands all over a lot of Nova Cat tech too. Sphinx's, Wendigo's, etc.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 27 April 2014, 20:00:52
My points are a) the Sharkfoxes are way stronger than the Spirit Cats and b) that makes the Spirit Cats indebted and dependent on them. In fact they wouldn´t be on Marik without the Sharkfoxes in the first place.

The fact that the Foxes are stronger than the Spirit Cats doesn't make them either indebted or dependent upon the Foxes especially with the Non-Aggression Pact currently in force.  The fact that the Foxes helped established the Clan Protectorate, on the other hand, does make the Spirit Cats indebted to the Foxes.  As part of their agreement, the Foxes have almost exclusive rights to trade within the Clan Protectorate and, through that, the Spirit Cats are dependent upon them for new equipment and supplies. 

Quote
Last time I checked users don´t get to decide who expresses his opinions in what threads. But I might as well drop the issue since you seem to have made up your mind already. If you are happier thinking of the Spirit Cats and Sharkfoxes as equally powerful and don´t think it possible that the Foxes will ever stoop so low to use the leverage they have, who am I to tell you otherwise? Go ahead.

Part of the problem is that you may not be expressing yourself clearly.  For example, your statement above that the Spirit Cats are indebted and dependent upon the Foxes simply because they are stronger may not be what you meant to say but that it is how it reads.

Quote
As a sidenote: A quick glance at the TROs and record sheets told me that the Sharkfoxes produce:
3 types of vehicles
11 types of Mechs
and provide parts for another 2 and 5 respectively.
Probably more because I didn´t bother to check the variants.

Only a tiny percentage of which goes to the Clan Protectorate.  The Spirit Cats have never been overly reliant upon Clan-tech, fielding whatever was available.  Even years after establishing supply lines through the Foxes, they still field large quantities of IS equipment.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 27 April 2014, 20:36:26
The Clan protectorate gives the Foxes a seat in the FWL parliament. Who cares about the Spirit Cats?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 27 April 2014, 21:09:07
The Clan protectorate gives the Foxes a seat in the FWL parliament. Who cares about the Spirit Cats?

No, the Protectorate gets seven seats (one for each world) but that doesn't mean the Foxes have one. The part in FM3145 where it says that Spina Khanate has a seat in Parliament is in error.

That's not to say that the representative from one of the Protectorate worlds couldn't be a Sea Fox, but it's not a given.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Ratwedge on 27 April 2014, 22:52:25
The Clan protectorate gives the Foxes a seat in the FWL parliament. Who cares about the Spirit Cats?

The nu-FWL.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 28 April 2014, 13:08:53
The Clan protectorate gives the Foxes a seat in the FWL parliament. Who cares about the Spirit Cats?

It might actually be a good thing that there are so few Spirit Cats, because they don't travel in large groups and enjoy being in target rich environments.  Of course, the one you need to fear is not the one that's dancing in plain sight, taking all the abuse you can dish out.  But that's what "Bait and Switch" is all about. 

And by the time you realize that somebody has gone missing, it'll be too late to notice that the one you were watching isn't where he's supposed to be either. 

GC

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 30 April 2014, 01:33:23
I've noticed a trend with Nova Cat players to be quite in character on the boards...

Not in character, but passionate. Once upon a time, Cat fans were among some of the most vocal and active on the boards, even if we were never as large a group as the Bear, Falcon, or Wolf fans. That was a long time ago, though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 30 April 2014, 02:34:56
Not in character, but passionate. Once upon a time, Cat fans were among some of the most vocal and active on the boards, even if we were never as large a group as the Bear, Falcon, or Wolf fans. That was a long time ago, though.

I think that's the most painful part of the demise of Clan Nova Cat; the fans aren't posting as much. Though I've found that I like the Spirit Cats I don't blame Nova Cat fans for not feeling the same.

I noticed that some of the latest literature hinted that Clan Nova Cat had given up on visions, or at least did not allow them the role they once had. If that's the case then I have to say that I like the Purifiers Cluster even more; I like my Nova Cats old school  :D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 30 April 2014, 03:00:49
I noticed that some of the latest literature hinted that Clan Nova Cat had given up on visions, or at least did not allow them the role they once had. If that's the case then I have to say that I like the Purifiers Cluster even more; I like my Nova Cats old school  :D

Its kind of hard to trust in visions that led to the demise of the Clan (and the annihilation of most-if not all-the mystic caste).  However, weren't the Spirit Cats led to Marik because of a vision?   O0

Many Nova Cat fans hated the way the writers destroyed their Clan.  I know at least one fan who created an AU where the Nova Cats led a Refusal War-like campaign.  When it became obvious that most of the DCMS sided with Yori, the majority of the Clan's force kept the attention focused on them while the rest salvaged what they could, fled the DC (along with Emi Kurita and Katana Tormark) and set up shop on Marik.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 30 April 2014, 03:27:22
Nothing worse than zagging when you should have zigged ... or as the rabbit says 'I knew I should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque'
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 30 April 2014, 05:26:04
Its kind of hard to trust in visions that led to the demise of the Clan (and the annihilation of most-if not all-the mystic caste).  However, weren't the Spirit Cats led to Marik because of a vision?   O0

The Nova Cats in Kuritan Space gave up  on Visions following the Second Combine-Dominion War, meaning that by 3132 a cultural rift had developed between CNC in KS and CNC in ROTS.  The Nova Cats in the Republic though, still strongly believed in visions, as evidenced by Kev Rosse.  The Nova Cats in Kuritan Space though, seemed to try to salvage that cultural belief, by creating the Mystic Caste to handle it for the whole Clan.

Quote
Many Nova Cat fans hated the way the writers destroyed their Clan.  I know at least one fan who created an AU where the Nova Cats led a Refusal War-like campaign.  When it became obvious that most of the DCMS sided with Yori, the majority of the Clan's force kept the attention focused on them while the rest salvaged what they could, fled the DC (along with Emi Kurita and Katana Tormark) and set up shop on Marik.

Interesting, link?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 30 April 2014, 07:40:15
Not in character, but passionate. Once upon a time, Cat fans were among some of the most vocal and active on the boards, even if we were never as large a group as the Bear, Falcon, or Wolf fans. That was a long time ago, though.
I know I tended to avoid the IC stuff. For me, it was more like the Cats were my favorite sports team.

I think that's the most painful part of the demise of Clan Nova Cat; the fans aren't posting as much. Though I've found that I like the Spirit Cats I don't blame Nova Cat fans for not feeling the same.
Yeah. I cant feel quite as passionate about the game as I used to.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 30 April 2014, 07:50:31
The Cats within the Combine as a whole hadn't given up on their traditional beliefs, but the politically dominate group within the Irece Prefecture Cats had gone pragmatic. The development of the Mystics actually predates the rise of this group (Kesari - spelling?) though.

As a Cat fan ... still around ... biding my time.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 30 April 2014, 07:59:54
I would imagine that living in the Combine as the Cats were was enervating to their very soul.  As though they were dead, or partly-dead, mostly dead, before the DC finished them off.   :-\
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 30 April 2014, 10:13:23
Its kind of hard to trust in visions that led to the demise of the Clan (and the annihilation of most-if not all-the mystic caste).  However, weren't the Spirit Cats led to Marik because of a vision?   O0

The Spirit Cats and the Nova Cats had visions of the nova cats being destroyed.

Kisho had visions of spirit cats and dragons feasting on the corpses of nova cats.

Kev Rosse had visions of getting away and starting their own thing before they got destroyed.

Rikkard had visions of Marik.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 30 April 2014, 16:03:11
Anyone have visions of grandeur?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 30 April 2014, 16:15:38
Not since the Warriors and Merchants got all starry-eyed in the build up to REVIVAL.  :P
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 30 April 2014, 17:10:55
I keep hoping for Nova Cats who had been behind the wall to react to the situation around them, the DC, or otherwise.  Not sure how effective the effort will be, but if they could hook up with the protectorate, who knows what can happen. 

That might be like a vision of grandeur, though I would think grandeur too strong a word for it perhaps. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 April 2014, 23:34:19
Do we know of any equipment being built on Marik?  I figure the MSC had some sort of production on planet.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 30 April 2014, 23:50:06
Do we know of any equipment being built on Marik?  I figure the MSC had some sort of production on planet.

Cheetah ASF, Planetlifter. Possibly Eagle ASF.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 06 May 2014, 18:52:56
@ Molossian Dog IIC

In its full size as a whole Clan is Clan Sea Fox stronger, but they can't move the whole Touman, to attack Marik or the Cats.
The Clan is splitted in many Garrison forces.

It think it ins not in the interest of the foxes to dominate Clan Spirit Cats.
A War take resources and profits, i think the foxes better made there a good deal for them what looks good for the cats but is great for them self.

But to compare the Sea Fox with the East India Company is just wrong!
They was a tyranic Company who dont care of non British lifes.
I Think the Foxes are more human in open a market. ( i never read from a Revolt against the Sharks )

@All

(http://s1.directupload.net/images/140423/x62wr42i.png)
I think for Both Clans it work well and they have more interest on good relations as fight each other.
Maybe the Clan have in far future some inner political problems, but i think both wanna keep the Protectorate alive.

Are the surviving Nova Cats independently?

Guys in some of your posts 'Shark Foxes' sounds like an own Faction ?!?
did i have something not read ?


Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 06 May 2014, 21:12:56
I think the Foxes can resist the temptation to attack the allied factions and Clans in the Protectorate.  Though suggesting that ANY Clan would do something sensible or reasonable is pretty much an oxymoron in the making. 

For the moment, the Foxes are doing what they do best, and have no reason to change what obviously works.  The SCats are very good at winning battles and even the NoCats that survived the Dragon's Purge are better fighters than other Clans' Solahmas.  Simply because if they intended to just quit and die, they would have done it long ago.

Sure, the Sea Fox Clan is very large, but most of it is focused on transporting others from place to place and the military part spends most of its effort on protecting those transports.  That because some House Lords and Clan Khans can't be trusted any more than common bandits or pirates if they see a chance to get something for nothing.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 06 May 2014, 21:27:20
the sharks actually have more in common with the Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie.. aka the dutch east india company. they were less about colonialism, more about pure trade. they did tend to build trading ports in strategic spots, but they usually weren't trying to conquer anyone the way the british did.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 May 2014, 21:27:28
In its full size as a whole Clan is Clan Sea Fox stronger, but they can't move the whole Touman, to attack Marik or the Cats.
The Clan is splitted in many Garrison forces.

I am simply going to make a correction based on fluff. I know that this correction may build 'anxiety' in the Spirit Cats and cause further discussion and I hope that doesn't happen. I'll say this first. Clan Sea Fox would not use force against the Spirit Cats. At least not while Rikkard and Petr Kalasa both still live and not without a huge divergence in the values of both clans. Maybe next century!

But the correction.

There are 6 Aimags (Clusters) floating around Marik Space. If they follow oldschool Diamond Shark tactical doctrine then those clusters are two clusters deep. Which means they have just enough force (or twice as much force) to smash the Spirit Cats without needing any other Khanates to swim by.

Quote
It think it ins not in the interest of the foxes to dominate Clan Spirit Cats

This is as objectively truthful as saying its a bad idea to saw your own leg off with a chainsaw. I agree completely.

Quote
A War take resources and profits, i think the foxes better made there a good deal for them what looks good for the cats but is great for them self.

still true.

Quote
But to compare the Sea Fox with the East India Company is just wrong!
They was a tyranic Company who dont care of non British lifes.
I Think the Foxes are more human in open a market. ( i never read from a Revolt against the Sharks )

Saying that Clan Sea Fox is like the East India Trading Company, or the Hanseatic League is like saying the Draconis Combine is like Feudal Japan or The Federated Suns is like Britain in space.

While they certainly derive inspirations from those works. Its one of those author tricks.

Lets say you write a character that you want to put into a story but he's incredibly one dimensional. Well, something authors do in this scenario is they take a second character and make those two characters one character. It diversifies that character. Does the same thing for factions. Take one faction, take a bunch of different cultures and throw it into one pot. Then you've got Blade Runner. Or Firefly (which, lets face it, is like Blade Runner in space. Its even more similar to the deep periphery)

Quote
Are the surviving Nova Cats independently?

There is the remains of a Cluster in the Protectorate. They're keeping themselves separate from the Spirit Cats. But they're part of the Protectorate. So ... Yes and No.

Quote
Guys in some of your posts 'Shark Foxes' sounds like an own Faction ?!?

The 'Shark Foxes' is an in joke. Because Clan Sea Fox has changed its name to Clan Diamond Shark and back again. Rather than clarifying which Clan it was at the time when talking about them you can call them Shark Foxes and it covers the faction under both pseudonyms.

I think the Foxes can resist the temptation to attack the allied factions and Clans in the Protectorate.  Though suggesting that ANY Clan would do something sensible or reasonable is pretty much an oxymoron in the making.

Should check out the Shark Foxes. Invading Clans, Warriors of Kerensky, Operation Klondike, Golden Century, Warden Clan, Touring the Sphere with Herb! Masters and Minions Starcorps, Interstellar Players 3. Wars of Reaving.

If we aren't being lead by Ian Hawker we're surprisingly reasonable and sensible.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 07 May 2014, 01:23:23
If we aren't being lead by Ian Hawker we're surprisingly reasonable and sensible.

This is off topic (and it has me showing my age), but I kinda liked the Sharks under Hawker. The whole rabid crusader thing kinda appealed to me.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 07 May 2014, 16:29:49
There are 6 Aimags (Clusters) floating around Marik Space. If they follow oldschool Diamond Shark tactical doctrine then those clusters are two clusters deep. Which means they have just enough force (or twice as much force) to smash the Spirit Cats without needing any other Khanates to swim by.

Clan Sea Fox wouldn't do anything to jeopardize their monopoly in the FWL.  Destroying one of the nuFWL factions, no matter how new or small, would make the rest nervous that they were next or that Clan Sea Fox intended to seize control.

This is off topic (and it has me showing my age), but I kinda liked the Sharks under Hawker. The whole rabid crusader thing kinda appealed to me.

You mean when they were losing all the important battles?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 07 May 2014, 16:45:02
This is off topic (and it has me showing my age), but I kinda liked the Sharks under Hawker. The whole rabid crusader thing kinda appealed to me.

Then everyone shows their age around here somehow, and you are not the oldest by this standard.   :)

Ian Hawker's legacy is in Wolf hands, where it might best be used.  Outside of the Jade Falcons' talons.

Jade Turkey Hawkers.  Awww yeeeeeah
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 07 May 2014, 21:30:39
I know I tended to avoid the IC stuff. For me, it was more like the Cats were my favorite sports team.
Yeah. I cant feel quite as passionate about the game as I used to.

I've certainly gone this way with canon timeline.  AU is different has been for a while

As a Cat fan ... still around ... biding my time.

Same here
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 08 May 2014, 09:39:44
@ Kitsune413
 i agree you in every point.

And i love this partnership from the Sea Foxes with the Spirit Cats  O0

Thank you for the answers

@glitterboy2098
It's an insult to compare them with the Compagnie!
Read what  Kitsune413 said to this.
And take a look of all bad things the Compagnie did and you understany maybe what i mean.
The Sharks are carefull with other Clans and self with the Houses or other Factions why they dont wanna close or lost some Market, Profit.

@all
It would be interesting to see what the CLan Potectorate and his members become in future.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 May 2014, 18:09:28
While the Protectorate units have been Trial'ing the Wolves, anyone think they might be interested in blooding the new units being raised elsewhere against another foe?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 08 May 2014, 21:51:48
@glitterboy2098
It's an insult to compare them with the Compagnie!
Read what  Kitsune413 said to this.
And take a look of all bad things the Compagnie did and you understany maybe what i mean.
The Sharks are carefull with other Clans and self with the Houses or other Factions why they dont wanna close or lost some Market, Profit.

his comments apply to the british east india company. i compared the foxes to the dutch east india company. the british were in it for power and colonies. they raped india to do it.

the dutch, who were there first, and were the reason the british even got interested in asia, just wanted trade and the money that brought, and played reasonably fair with their trading partners.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 13 June 2014, 07:52:23
So, what's next?  We have the Sharkfox, SNoCat, and various Marik militias working together to make a single combined power base.  The Cats need time to rebuild their infrastructure, but there is nothing definite to prevent that from happening. 

And that begs the question, will they become Nova Cats again or keep the Spirit Cat name while assimilating the remaining survivors of their old Clan.  Will there be clone wars of canned kitties breeding like rabbits and fighting Wolves like Falcons?  (gah ... that was a silly time for the invading clans)  Have we finally seen the end of cosplay Catgirl Battlemaid Armor? 

I liked the Samurai Cats, but their time is done.  Even to the point of destruction, they kept their Pride and Honor intact.  No small feat or legacy in that.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 13 June 2014, 08:57:39
So, what's next?  We have the Sharkfox, SNoCat, and various Marik militias working together to make a single combined power base.  The Cats need time to rebuild their infrastructure, but there is nothing definite to prevent that from happening. 

And that begs the question, will they become Nova Cats again or keep the Spirit Cat name while assimilating the remaining survivors of their old Clan. 
I would prefer that they keep the name "Spirit Cats".

I liked the Samurai Cats, but their time is done.  Even to the point of destruction, they kept their Pride and Honor intact.  No small feat or legacy in that.

GC
They lost their "Honor" when they turned against their fellow Clans in the midst of the battle and joined those Inner Sphere barbarians they were supposed to fight against and defeat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 13 June 2014, 17:22:31
The Spirit Cats will be absorbed by the Horses when they move after gifting their OZ to the Star Adders.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 13 June 2014, 19:03:07
The Spirit Cats will be absorbed by the Horses when they move after gifting their OZ to the Star Adders.

Uh, sure. Whaaaaaaaaatever you say
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 13 June 2014, 19:43:43
The Spirit Cats will be absorbed by the Horses when they move after gifting their OZ to the Star Adders.

Had a vision of it did you?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fletch on 13 June 2014, 20:36:24
Had a vision of it did you?

Part of the Fletch Conspiracy Theories ...  ::)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 13 June 2014, 21:53:32
Part of the Fletch Conspiracy Theories ...  ::)

Conspiracy theories are fun... Just remember; Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Anyhow, I'm finally getting back to assembling some Spirit Cats. While I know there's nothing on CSO for them yet I figured the grey and white scheme from MW:DA would suffice. Is there any guide to what proportion of the two colors the Purifiers Cluster would use?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 14 June 2014, 01:07:46
Anyhow, I'm finally getting back to assembling some Spirit Cats. While I know there's nothing on CSO for them yet I figured the grey and white scheme from MW:DA would suffice. Is there any guide to what proportion of the two colors the Purifiers Cluster would use?

Not as such; I mentioned description of colour schemes from a novel some pages back but beyond that there's no hard and fast guidelines.

In the CMG, differing colour balance was used to differentiate the different units/experience levels. In theory, the Purifier cluster, being the "veteran" unit would have a roughly equal proprtion of the two colours (Grey and off-white) with no set pattern as to how they were distributed.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 14 June 2014, 01:13:22
Aha! Found my own post!

Target of Opportunity gives us descriptions of two Spirit Cat 'Mechs, complete with colours:

Star Captain Cox's (Pouncer Trinary, Purifiers) Warhammer IIC is "two shades of grey, and a long diagonal stripe of red across the torso like a sash of honour"

Star Captain Caitlin Bauer's (Stealth Cat Trinary, Omicron) Vulture mk III is "painted in the grey and white striped pattern of her Trinary".

IMO, Both fall within the range of the Spirit Cat colours in the MWDA CMG.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 14 June 2014, 01:59:56
Nice! Thanks  O0

I've actually found a faction that I like enough to put up with the difficulty of painting white...

In other news I'm trying to figure out where the Clan Protectorate falls on the FM3145 RATs. Are they rolled with no modifier since they're second line? That sure seems low tech if they're using the FWL RAT.

Edit: I just realized I asked that before  :-[

I'm going to blame it on the huge number of hours I'm working right now instead of my own forgetfulness.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 04 July 2014, 19:38:13
a few quick questions.. i'm thinking of making a clan protectorate force.

would the Clan protectorate use protomechs?

and would the Spirit Cat's have any mechs that were republic faction availability still around?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 04 July 2014, 20:18:49
a few quick questions.. i'm thinking of making a clan protectorate force.

would the Clan protectorate use protomechs?

and would the Spirit Cat's have any mechs that were republic faction availability still around?

From what I can find they are not using protomechs. As for RAF equipment, I believe that there is enough evidence to support some republic equipment in their arsenal.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 04 July 2014, 23:29:04
It may have since been retconned away, but I believe when protomechs were first introduced, they required a special modified genotype pilot to use them. 

As for RAF units and equipment in the Spirit Cat stockpile, I'd say they have a good chance to have a little bit of Everything.  Best reason I can give is that they were very good at capturing and using stuff taken from every faction that opposed them.  That includes a few Republic Senators that didn't know who's side they were on.

It doesn't hurt to claim everything on a world as Isorla, and declaring any resistance will be punished.  (If you're going to win anyway, Win Big!)  So, "All Your Base Belong To Us."

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WeaponX on 05 July 2014, 01:11:21
It may have since been retconned away, but I believe when protomechs were first introduced, they required a special modified genotype pilot to use them. 

Protomechs were originally piloted by test down aerospace pilot phenotypes because the pilot phenotype was somehow more resistant to the negative side effects of enhanced imaging implants (ie they didn't go crazy as fast as a mechwarrior phenotype).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 05 July 2014, 02:10:43
would the Clan protectorate use protomechs?
No, only the Hell's Horses and the Snow Ravens use them in this era.

and would the Spirit Cat's have any mechs that were republic faction availability still around?
That's interesting question.

► On one hand, it's entirely acceptable that the Spirit Cats acquired some RAF 'Mechs in the chaos of those early years of the Dark Age. That's possible.

► On the other hand, after almost 15 years of combat, I think that many of those originally Republic-owned 'Mechs have been destroyed. However, it's possible that some more durable units (or 'Mechs and vehicles piloted simply by some lucky pilots) are still serviceable.
Plus, it has been a decade since the Fortress of the Republic cut off access to all core Republic factories. Thus, no access to new Republic 'Mechs and spare parts for them.

► My impression is that the Spirit Cats use mostly equipment of FWL and Sea Fox origin now, with some generic IS units - simply because that's what the new FWL has available. Yes, some Republic units, but only here and there.

► You may check these topics:
BattleMechs produced in the new FWL (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,39424.0.html)
Combat Vehicles produced in the new FWL (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,39475.0.html)
Battle Armor produced in the new FWL (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40189.0.html)

I mentioned some factories that were stolen by the Republic in 3080s and returned in 3130s. The Republic possibly retooled them to produce some modern 'Mechs and vehicles, but we don't know of what type.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 05 July 2014, 02:56:04
► On one hand, it's entirely acceptable that the Spirit Cats acquired some RAF 'Mechs in the chaos of those early years of the Dark Age. That's possible.
► On the other hand, after almost 15 years of combat, I think that many of those originally Republic-owned 'Mechs have been destroyed. However, it's possible that some more durable units (or 'Mechs and vehicles piloted simply by some lucky pilots) are still serviceable.

They could have acquired additional Republic 'Mechs later through second-hand sources.

Quote
Plus, it has been a decade since the Fortress of the Republic cut off access to all core Republic factories. Thus, no access to new Republic 'Mechs and spare parts for them.

I mentioned some factories that were stolen by the Republic in 3080s and returned in 3130s. The Republic possibly retooled them to produce some modern 'Mechs and vehicles, but we don't know of what type.

The Republic did acquire some 'Mechs from foreign sources and as you mention lost some of their factories during the Dark Age to the Great Houses, such as those on Tikonov and Irian.  It is quite possible that those factories are still producing Republic 'Mechs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 05 July 2014, 08:11:17
Hmm. The Nova Cats used Protomechs in 3085 and simply aren't featured in 3145. So its not impossible that the Spirit Cats wouldn't have some Protomechs.

However, the majority of Spirit Cats are from the Republic. So it does seem very unlikely.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 05 July 2014, 19:05:17
They could have acquired additional Republic 'Mechs later through second-hand sources.

The Republic did acquire some 'Mechs from foreign sources and as you mention lost some of their factories during the Dark Age to the Great Houses, such as those on Tikonov and Irian.  It is quite possible that those factories are still producing Republic 'Mechs.

well, the mech in question is a Bear Cub (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bear_Cub) that's i recently picked up cheap, but which sits as the sole Ghost Bear design i own. the MUL has the republic using Bear Cub's in the early republic days (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/) so i figured i might be able to fit it into a republic splinter faction.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 05 July 2014, 20:37:02
well, the mech in question is a Bear Cub (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bear_Cub) that's i recently picked up cheap, but which sits as the sole Ghost Bear design i own. the MUL has the republic using Bear Cub's in the early republic days (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/) so i figured i might be able to fit it into a republic splinter faction.

Honestly I say go for it. I'd say that's a pretty reasonable unit given the command's background.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 05 July 2014, 22:17:35
finding a spot for my protomechs is more problematic.. i have 5 Roc's, 6 Gorgon's (and 4 more somewhere) and 5 Satyr to stick somewhere.

i guess i can throw them in with my two Oro Tanks and 2 Shamash scouts to make a Hells Horses Star, just would prefer a group that could actually show up in the republic from time to time. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 07 July 2014, 11:03:10
would the Clan protectorate use protomechs?

Normally i'd say yes, considering their close relationship with the Sea Foxes, who in turn have trading links with the Snow Ravens and Hell's Horses.  However, protomech pilots are specifically bred and surgically prepared, as opposed to mechwarriors and aerojocks that can be any Joe Schmoe.  Whether or not the Republic Nova Cats kept a protomech program, I don't know.  And if they did, did that program get transplanted in the Protectorate?  Draconis Nova Cat protomech usage was so low they didn't bother to make new ones, just refits of the exisitng Satyrs for recon duty.  And if those were part of the genestocks that were lost in the Ghost Bear genocide it makes the possibility even lower.

But, hey, this is Battletech.  If they want a time traveling Ares tripod in 3055, who is going to stop you?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 07 July 2014, 14:42:37
Whether or not the Republic Nova Cats kept a protomech program, I don't know.

They did not.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 07 July 2014, 15:24:18
So, what's next?  We have the Sharkfox, SNoCat, and various Marik militias working together to make a single combined power base.  The Cats need time to rebuild their infrastructure, but there is nothing definite to prevent that from happening. 

And that begs the question, will they become Nova Cats again or keep the Spirit Cat name while assimilating the remaining survivors of their old Clan.  Will there be clone wars of canned kitties breeding like rabbits and fighting Wolves like Falcons?  (gah ... that was a silly time for the invading clans)  Have we finally seen the end of cosplay Catgirl Battlemaid Armor? 

I liked the Samurai Cats, but their time is done.  Even to the point of destruction, they kept their Pride and Honor intact.  No small feat or legacy in that.

GC

Clan Spirit Fox???
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 07 July 2014, 19:28:08
They did not.

It occurred to me later that the Satyr XP's TRO entry mentioning Aerospace washouts being used as volunteers in the Draconis Nova Cats.  I guess the Spirit Cats could do the same if they got a viable breeding program up and running.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 July 2014, 19:37:08
Clan Spirit Fox???

I approve.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 July 2014, 19:38:53
Clan Spirit Fox???

Yikes!  Visionary merchants with muscle?  That could be trouble ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 07 July 2014, 23:39:03
Yikes!  Visionary merchants with muscle?  That could be trouble ;)

I instantly got an image of the Lush store.  I think those people have been smelling the product a little too much. ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 08 July 2014, 10:13:17
Yikes!  Visionary merchants with muscle?  That could be trouble ;)
I'd point out the Nova Cat Merchants were already pretty good at that, something a lot of people tend to forget or overlook as its not the Cats most obvious 'thing'. Didn't really help in the last couple decades.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 08 July 2014, 11:07:12
hmmmm

Maybe we should use the White Tiger face with a black patch over one eye and wearing a Pirate's hat.

Somehow "Clan Sea Cat" just doesn't say enough.  And, we gotta give those Interstellar Master Traders a run for their Money.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 08 July 2014, 12:52:53
I'd point out the Nova Cat Merchants were already pretty good at that, something a lot of people tend to forget or overlook as its not the Cats most obvious 'thing'. Didn't really help in the last couple decades.

This. Several old books reference the Cats being second in merchant power only to the Sharks, and in financial power only to the Falcons. IIRC the Cats and the Mongooses were two of the major explorers of the post-Klondike setting, with the Mongoose touman and fleet taking point, while the Cats backed them financially. Of course then the Mongooses went rabid, the Sharks realized that there's more than one way to win a war, and the rest is history.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 08 July 2014, 15:53:07
This. Several old books reference the Cats being second in merchant power only to the Sharks, and in financial power only to the Falcons. IIRC the Cats and the Mongooses were two of the major explorers of the post-Klondike setting, with the Mongoose touman and fleet taking point, while the Cats backed them financially. Of course then the Mongooses went rabid, the Sharks realized that there's more than one way to win a war, and the rest is history.

Do all our partners end up biting the dust?  Mongoose, Smoke Jaguar, our Kurita faction.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 08 July 2014, 16:59:36
Do all our partners end up biting the dust?  Mongoose, Smoke Jaguar, our Kurita faction.

Sea Foxes are fine.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 08 July 2014, 17:39:34
Sea Foxes are fine.

You're partnered with Clan Spirit Cat like the RotS was.  That must be safe.  ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 08 July 2014, 18:47:58
Sea Foxes are fine.

You just jinxed it...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 09 July 2014, 01:18:35
Sea Foxes are fine.

... and then the Homeworlds Clans have come.   ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 July 2014, 03:14:06
What battle armors would you like to see the Protectorate fielding?

What would be the first local equipment produced?  Would the Foxes let the project go forward?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 09 July 2014, 07:38:24
What battle armors would you like to see the Protectorate fielding?

What would be the first local equipment produced?  Would the Foxes let the project go forward?

Clan Nova Cat has always incorporated local culture into the design of their equipment.  I see them continuing this.  I imagine that their more Samurai inspired designs (Clan Battle Armour for example) would take on a "knight" theme.  Otherwise I see most of the Battle Armour being produced by Clan Nova Cat, as Clan Sea Fox seems to be more focused on Mech and Naval designs in Dark Age.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 July 2014, 11:51:18
I guess the protectorate is on the old marik commonwealth which is austrian so maybe knights. The orient is mostly greek influenced. Regulus is indian, andurien has a chinese aesthetic.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 09 July 2014, 12:41:38
My biggest fear is that Marik culture will warp the Spirit Cats.  I've loved Clan Nova Cat ever since I found out that they utilize Energy Weapons over all other weapons.  This plays well into my play style.  The DC did pull CNC away from that style a bit with the Wendigo.  The Mariks are known for their love of ballistic armaments.  This is unpalatable IMHO.  Hopefully the Spirit Cats will work closer with CSF than the Mariks and they will return to their former Clan spirit.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 09 July 2014, 13:07:49
There is nothing wrong with producing CBAs (Catgirl Battlemaid Accessories) ... Well it's eye candy, anyway.  As long as we can avoid the Teutonic Knight style, it'll still be good.  Incorporating local culture is not a problem, most of it comes from captured equipment used "as is".  Of course, the long tenure in the Combine meant that much was dictated by what Kurita decided was available. 

If anything, the Spirit Cats might embrace a different extreme to maintain a sense of identity.  There seems to be a fair number of Cat-themed mechs, tank, etc., but it would be nice to see it not be over-shadowed by something bearing a Wolf name with the exact same features?

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 09 July 2014, 13:34:03
If anything, the Spirit Cats might embrace a different extreme to maintain a sense of identity.  There seems to be a fair number of Cat-themed mechs, tank, etc., but it would be nice to see it not be over-shadowed by something bearing a Wolf name with the exact same features?

GC

Seconded.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: The Eagle on 09 July 2014, 18:05:51
The Mariks are known for their love of ballistic armaments.

No they're not; the Davions are.  The Mariks have always had a fetish for lasers and LRMs.  Their ballistic expertise is fairly limited, all things being equal; they re-engineered the LB-5X and Ultra-10 autocannons from SLDF-era records and scaled the gauss rifle to its current "light" status, but that's it.  Compare that to being the re-engineering of the ER medium and small lasers, plus the plethora of LRM submunitions they came up with.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 09 July 2014, 20:00:26
Prior to the 3050's they had a real fetish for large lasers. Due mainly to having most of the manufacturers of them, and a limited supply of PPC's. Post clans they just added the LRM to that.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 10 July 2014, 02:03:49
What battle armors would you like to see the Protectorate fielding?
Clan Medium Battle Armor - Clan BA suitable for the sub-Clan faction. I am not sure if there is any factory capable of producing BA in the Clan Protectorate.

What would be the first local equipment produced?  Would the Foxes let the project go forward?
It would depend on local factories. Some of them may have been damaged in fighting.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 July 2014, 02:12:41
I think he is referring to the MSC, which the Protectorate took a chunk of, rather than the generic 'Mariks' referring to the League.  And they did go with ACs, look at the Shockwave and some of their other post-breakup designs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 10 July 2014, 02:35:39
No they're not; the Davions are.  The Mariks have always had a fetish for lasers and LRMs.  Their ballistic expertise is fairly limited, all things being equal; they re-engineered the LB-5X and Ultra-10 autocannons from SLDF-era records and scaled the gauss rifle to its current "light" status, but that's it.  Compare that to being the re-engineering of the ER medium and small lasers, plus the plethora of LRM submunitions they came up with.
Actually, in the last few decades (approximately 3080-3140) the Mariks (from the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth) fell in love for Autocannons.

Honestly, it wasn't as much as a case of "love" (although I would admit that perhaps they decided to favor more direct approach than their traditional LGRs and LRMs), but the fact that they lost access to some other factories of the former FWL.
However, they were left with the Imperator Automatic Weaponry plant on Atreus, known for producing fine ballistic weapons such as various Autocannons and Gauss rifles.

Thanks those factors the Mariks used such ballistic weapons on their refitted and upgraded 'Mechs and designed some new 'Mechs armed with those guns.
Some examples are:
- new 'Mechs: Shockwave SKW-2F/4G (RAC-5), SKW-6H (UAC-10), Thunderbolt TDR-9M (LGR), Anzu ZU-G60 (UAC-10)/J70 (RAC-5), Trebaruna (GR)
- refitted 'Mechs: "Orions and Tempests modified ... to utilize rotary and ultra autocannons", Albatross (GR)
- their R10 ICV sports ballistic weapons on two of its three configurations
- Partisan AA vehicles, again with twin Autocannons; Partisan tanks with quad autocannons
- Red Kite was originally designed with Light Autocannon
- Poignard ASF (LAC)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 10 July 2014, 11:59:30
No they're not; the Davions are.  The Mariks have always had a fetish for lasers and LRMs.  Their ballistic expertise is fairly limited, all things being equal; they re-engineered the LB-5X and Ultra-10 autocannons from SLDF-era records and scaled the gauss rifle to its current "light" status, but that's it.  Compare that to being the re-engineering of the ER medium and small lasers, plus the plethora of LRM submunitions they came up with.

I stand corrected.  Maybe this partnership can work.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 16 July 2014, 15:26:34
I think it's been asked of the Spirit Cats already but would the Nova Cat Provisional Cluster have a fair number of RAF units in their roster?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 16 July 2014, 16:06:00
I think it's been asked of the Spirit Cats already but would the Nova Cat Provisional Cluster have a fair number of RAF units in their roster?

We don't know, no details have been given. 20 'Mechs is not a big number.

They are rated as "Clan Secondline", so I would give them some variant of Shadow Hawk IIC or Griffin IIC. Sphinx as a heavy 'Mech, Shadow Cat and Nova Cat or two if you are feeling generous.
Some Lights such as Ocelot, Morrigan, Arbalest. Crimson Hawk maybe.
I don't think that Republic 'Mechs are especially common here, although perhaps they use some.

My guess is that they might field Juliano, Havoc or Gambit since these 'Mechs are produced in the Clan Protectorate, as replacement of their losses ...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 16 July 2014, 16:11:28
I'd guess the Ocelot would be quite common since it was previously a Nova Cat produced unit.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 16 July 2014, 16:18:29
I think it's been asked of the Spirit Cats already but would the Nova Cat Provisional Cluster have a fair number of RAF units in their roster?

I'm not certain which question you are asking.  Do you want to know ...

... If any equipment or supplies were acquired or captured and issued to available warriors?

I'd say yes, any found object that can improve the Cluster's combat ability would be deemed very useful.

... Were any Republican pilots or troops recruited or assimilated by the Clan as they were found to be willing to participate?

Maybe.  That would depend on how and when they joined the Cluster and if they were Bondsmen.  An independent company of volunteers might have tagged along as a team of disenfranchised units with no other 'friendly' units to join up with.

So my question is "would a fair number of RAF units on the roster still be RAF if they are in the Nova Cat Cluster?"

Think carefully about what a Clan (even one that's Abjured, Assassinated, Annihilated) battle group would expect from those RAF units.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 16 July 2014, 20:53:25
To clarify:

Quote from: FM3145 pg. 109
The Nova Cat Provisional Cluster is a relatively new formation
predominantly staffed by Nova Cat refugees seeking asylum in the
Clan Protectorate after fleeing the Republic’s collapse. According to
reports, the Cluster consists of three Trinaries of partially functional
’Mechs—and the occasional OmniMech—that have yet to see
proper repairs from fighting in the Republic.

They are Nova Cats from Republic enclaves. I would assume that Nova Cats from Republic enclaves would use some Republic equipment. I'm looking to see if anyone has some input regarding that assumption.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 17 July 2014, 05:22:27
I think your quote answers most of your questions for you.

Three trinaries of battered and damaged mechs is pretty significant, but the mechs are all it mentions.  Of these, it states an occasional omnimech, perhaps not more than a dozen Clan Invasion era omnimechs remain.  The rest would be Captured or Salvaged from the battlefield, mostly. 

Though they were not mentioned, it did say it was a Cluster, and I'd suggest that at least one trinary of Battle Armored infantry and a binary of mixed armored combat vehicles with a few APCs and other 'Dark Age' toys.

So without being more specific about what units or troops are available, I'd guess that at least half of the Cluster may have been organized as part of the RAF at some point.  What they were doing before they became Isorla is another story.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 17 July 2014, 09:22:56
I think your quote answers most of your questions for you.

Three trinaries of battered and damaged mechs is pretty significant, but the mechs are all it mentions.  Of these, it states an occasional omnimech, perhaps not more than a dozen Clan Invasion era omnimechs remain.  The rest would be Captured or Salvaged from the battlefield, mostly. 

Though they were not mentioned, it did say it was a Cluster, and I'd suggest that at least one trinary of Battle Armored infantry and a binary of mixed armored combat vehicles with a few APCs and other 'Dark Age' toys.

So without being more specific about what units or troops are available, I'd guess that at least half of the Cluster may have been organized as part of the RAF at some point.  What they were doing before they became Isorla is another story.

GC

I've two theories as to what the Republic 'Cats were up to:

Either they were in enclaves and had hardware to protect themselves or what we're seeing is the remnants of Stone's Trackers.

After work I'll see if I can find the reference but I believe that I came across a source stating that some special forces units were raiding along the CC border and hiding out in nearby civilian enclaves. I may be mistaken though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 17 July 2014, 12:57:46
I wonder if BT will write a story where a call goes out throughout the IS calling all Cats to the Protectorate.  Even offering assistance from the Sea Foxes to arrive in the new home safely.  This could boost Spirit Cat numbers to the point where they would be effective again.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 17 July 2014, 13:04:54
Wouldn't be much of a response to such a call. Those Cats who aren't already in the Protectorate are either behind the Fortress wall or dead or sterilized and enslaved in the Combine. If there are any left in the former Republic prefectures, it would be a negligible number at best.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 17 July 2014, 13:56:00
dead or sterilized and enslaved in the Combine.

Assuming the Combine wanted to keep any Nova Cats alive, what sort of restraints will prevent the sterilized Nova Cats from seeking retribution on the Medical Staff?  I doubt anyone could successfully complete the process without incredibly high casualties.  Making slaves out of Clan Warriors is also a dangerous and silly thing to do.  The Cats in captivity would go berserk and fight until they've all been killed. 

Resistance may be futile, but Death is its own reward.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 17 July 2014, 14:25:06
None of the survivors in the DC are warrior caste. Those were all executed.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 17 July 2014, 14:39:14
Assuming the Combine wanted to keep any Nova Cats alive, what sort of restraints will prevent the sterilized Nova Cats from seeking retribution on the Medical Staff?  I doubt anyone could successfully complete the process without incredibly high casualties.  Making slaves out of Clan Warriors is also a dangerous and silly thing to do.  The Cats in captivity would go berserk and fight until they've all been killed. 

Resistance may be futile, but Death is its own reward.

GC

And since most lower castes are washouts of the warrior caste, they would be semi-trained fighters to boot.  Very dangerous indeed.  The worst ones would be the Nova Cat Deep Watch members that would pose as a lower caste member, then work to sabotage the DC from within.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 17 July 2014, 14:54:24
And since most lower castes are washouts of the warrior caste

Some lower caste members are washed-out warriors; the majority are not. The lower castes are (or were, I guess) a self-perpetuating population.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 17 July 2014, 15:27:32
Some lower caste members are washed-out warriors; the majority are not. The lower castes are (or were, I guess) a self-perpetuating population.

What else is a freeborn to do... And that's where I'll leave it before that goes any further.  I think in the Homeworlds the percentage of failed trueborns to freeborns would maybe be more balanced as the Populations were smaller?  But on the occupied IS worlds freeborn numbers must dwarf trueborns
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 17 July 2014, 18:55:50
This is a wholly depressing line of discussion.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Peacemaker on 18 July 2014, 00:08:01
This is a wholly depressing line of discussion.

That's genocide for ya.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 18 July 2014, 08:52:12
That's genocide for ya.

I've been thinking about that lately, and it's not likely that the Combine can affect or influence such practice in Realms it doesn't control.

But what they have seen is how quickly even a small Clan like the Nova Cats can replace their losses after a major battle.  Then they look at Clan Wolf overpopulating the occupied worlds without restrictions or limits in the space of just a few decades.  And it's not just one Clan they have to Fear. 

We've made jokes about the sibkos and the breeding program, but consider how many Thousands of Clan sibkos can be produced in a single year if such production had a priority mandate.  They are not just a few clones, but Clones of Clones Replicated as many times as they are needed.

"Born in a bottle, raised in a can, we all have the same face, but only one is a Man."

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 18 July 2014, 09:44:37
That's fine for a clan that is fast and loose like the Wovles, or even the Horses who get multiple warriors out of a single sibko.  More traditionally minded clans are still limited by Trials of Position.  Of course, that's Trueborns were't talking about.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 18 July 2014, 10:37:18
Flip to that though FS is that then add in freebirth birth rates while eliminating tbe stigma of being a freebirtb or even spheroid and allow production to run wild so that you can field them. Even the small fry could out populate larger polities.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 18 July 2014, 11:57:44
What else is a freeborn to do... And that's where I'll leave it before that goes any further.  I think in the Homeworlds the percentage of failed trueborns to freeborns would maybe be more balanced as the Populations were smaller?  But on the occupied IS worlds freeborn numbers must dwarf trueborns

True.

I wonder if the number of Trueborns in "hosted" clan factions (Clan Wolf (in-exile), Clan Steel Wolf, Clan Nova Cat, and Clan Spirit Cat) would have higher Trueborn numbers? 
Both Roosterboy and DragonCat are correct, the OZ would definitely have higher Freeborn numbers (and maybe this is why the Homeclans charge the Invading clans with being tainted), but traditional Clan society would naturally move that ratio closer in favour to the number of Trueborns over time.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 18 July 2014, 12:58:54
That's fine for a clan that is fast and loose like the Wovles, or even the Horses who get multiple warriors out of a single sibko.  More traditionally minded clans are still limited by Trials of Position.
...I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest the Cats were traditional minded before. We're the ones who get 'puffpuffpass' jokes made for them. :D

Weird pseudoreligions aside, the Cats were one of the more pragmatic Clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 18 July 2014, 13:12:36
They've already accepted IS populations into the Protectorate Guardians, so manpower may not be the problem in the long run.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 18 July 2014, 14:38:16
While searching the internet today I saw this:

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/17/16607/NovaCatmark2model.JPG

I like the look of this design.  Maybe it's time to develop a new line of mechs and equipment to replace what we lost in the DC?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 18 July 2014, 15:39:51
i think that instead of a Nova Cat MkII it would be more interesting to see a "spirit cat" omni that takes the old nova cat design and adapts it to the tech available to the protectorate. for example, maybe an alternate armor, or the use of a mixtech Radical heatsink system, etc.
though it might be better to start with a standard mech, with an onmi version later ala the WIE Arctic wolf.

perhaps start with the Nova Cat Prime, and make a standard mech version with reflective armor and maybe a RHS..
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 18 July 2014, 16:47:57
i think that instead of a Nova Cat MkII it would be more interesting to see a "spirit cat" omni that takes the old nova cat design and adapts it to the tech available to the protectorate. for example, maybe an alternate armor, or the use of a mixtech Radical heatsink system, etc.
though it might be better to start with a standard mech, with an onmi version later ala the WIE Arctic wolf.

perhaps start with the Nova Cat Prime, and make a standard mech version with reflective armor and maybe a RHS..

Maybe I'll do that as a side project.  I'll take the base stats for the Nova Cat, and using tech manufactured in the FWL, design the "Spirit Cat" (Nova Cat MKII). 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 18 July 2014, 17:08:30
oohh.. could make it sorta like a Quasimodo IIC.. reflective armor, blue shield, and clantech energy guns.. that would be scary.. plus all of that is easily within the NFWL/Protectorate capabilities..

if a Quasimodo can go toe to toe with a Hellstar and win, what could a mech 50% heavier do?  >:D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 18 July 2014, 18:02:10
A Nova Cat with RHS could be really cool.

That was a terrible pun...  :-[
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 18 July 2014, 18:06:52
i've actually been playing around with reflective armor, blue shield, and laser insulation.. if i can get the bugs worked out of the design (or a less buggy copy of megamek lab installed.. my laptop's version is 10 releases out of date) it ought to be really really scary.. if the latest MML has the RHS, even better.. i keep running out of crit's before i run out of mass..

edit: managed to pull it off with 1.5 tons of mass and half a dozen open crits left. so might be able to fit some other gear in (ECM maybe?), though might thin the armor by a few points to get an even 2 tons to work with..

edit 2: or could stick in the ECM, and a flamer to handle the PBI's running around so much of the IS nowadays..
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 18 July 2014, 18:08:45
Thank goodness the Catalyst pun subjugation and suppression squads are on summer break.

Of course were a Nova Cat with a RHS exist it's more likely to be in the RAF's hands. Or an enclave now behind The Blind ...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 July 2014, 01:52:24
Can a standard Nova Cat mount RHS?  I never looked at the rules closely but . . . easiest swap I could imagine would be to make the ERPPCs into ERLLs, which gives you four tons to play around with . . . or even better, the Supernova!  Engine change makes it a bit less durable, but allows armor to increase and gives you 7 tons & 4 crits . . . a Supernova able to fire salvoes of 6 ERLL without as much heat issues would be a monster.

I must now wander off to read the RHS rules again.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 19 July 2014, 08:41:51
Yes, the RHS is completely pod-mountable. Have at it.  O0

And yes, an RHS equipped Supernova is a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Brother Jim on 19 July 2014, 10:38:26
Where would one find the stats and rules for this RHS??







And I'm guessing that RHS is Radical Heat Sinks??
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 19 July 2014, 10:41:22
Where would one find the stats and rules for this RHS??
And I'm guessing that RHS is Radical Heat Sinks??

In Field Manual: 3145, p.247.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 19 July 2014, 13:31:32
it's basically a MASC system for your heatsinks.. each use lets the heatsinks vent extra heat, but you risk your heatsinks rupturing with repeated rapid use. if they rupture you actually gain heat and the system breaks.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 21 July 2014, 06:47:42
The Sphinx was originally going to be an Omni, AND it first showed up in the DA timeline as a Spirit Cat piece. Might make a good base for a Spirit Cat Omni. You'd have to do something to help distinguish it from the miffed kitty, though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 21 July 2014, 08:25:39
Yeah, I can think of a bunch of DA mechs that can make the Protectorate a good home for our Spirit Cats.

We have the Cave Lion, Sphinx, MadCat III (read Stormcrow with custom mod to look like a Timberwolf), Arbalest, and I like the Avalanche and Crimsonhawk, too.  Looks like the list of Spirit Cat goodies is longer than I thought, and we can still use some of the old Invasion omnis that survived to the Dark Age, too. 

Finally, I can have Front and Second Line mechs with mixed tech in the same Star, Cluster, Keshik, and it won't look stupid.   :))

GC


Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 July 2014, 00:56:43
Well . . .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 23 July 2014, 12:59:24
Yeah, I can think of a bunch of DA mechs that can make the Protectorate a good home for our Spirit Cats.

We have the Cave Lion, Sphinx, MadCat III (read Stormcrow with custom mod to look like a Timberwolf), Arbalest, and I like the Avalanche and Crimsonhawk, too.  Looks like the list of Spirit Cat goodies is longer than I thought, and we can still use some of the old Invasion omnis that survived to the Dark Age, too. 

Finally, I can have Front and Second Line mechs with mixed tech in the same Star, Cluster, Keshik, and it won't look stupid.   :))

GC

Don't forget the Wendigo.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 23 July 2014, 18:00:49
I think any Mech asset from CSC can be game for the Clan Protectorate. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WeaponX on 23 July 2014, 20:20:10
Yeah, I can think of a bunch of DA mechs that can make the Protectorate a good home for our Spirit Cats.

The Clan Protectorate already has a decent Mech production capacity, so rather than build new factories to produce what they used to produce back in the Irece Prefecture, it would probably make more sense just to upgrade the existing factories in Abadan and Angel II to Clan standards, or something pretty close to Clan standards.  I actually did some Clannified versions of the Mechs produced in the Protectorate over on this thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,38907.0.html).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 23 July 2014, 20:39:56
Look up Clan 'Mechs available to the Republic as well.

Finally, the Sprit Cat 'MMechs from MWDA could also have a few clues as to what zcould be found in the Protectorate. Marauder II,  Warhammer IIC, Dasher II, Mad Cat Mk II immediately come to mind. Also the Shadow Hawk IIC 9 is a Spirit Cat signature Mech
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 July 2014, 21:46:20
Which one did Rikkard command?  I remember it had ATMs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 23 July 2014, 22:04:41
an interesting line of thought popped up in the design thread, decided to cross post to where it would could be discussed without derailing the thread..

@Wellspring and @Sabelkatten

I'm taking both of your concerns in consideration.  I think there will be a shortage of warriors in the future as the Eugenics program was never huge for CSC.  Also the design needs to be as self sustaining as possible (like the Nova Cat).  As for the future of the Clan Protectorate, I imagine that CSF will make up the naval assets of the Protectorate, while CSC will make up the military.
and my response:

that just means there will be a shortage of trueborns. i'm pretty sure they'll rely more heavily on the 'freeborns' recruited from within the protectorate.. personally i think it would be fun if they end up becoming more of a brotherhood of warriors type organization and not a self contained clan.. 'adopting' into itself elite/capable troops from all over the protectorate/NuFWL, inducting them into the Spirit Cat traditions. perhaps even adopt the idea of 'honornames' from the old Wolfs Dragoons, with the names of their original spirit cat members (and perhaps a fair number of Nova Cats) being bestowed similar to bloodnames, but with the recipients not having to actually have blood relations to the original.

sort of a mix of the old knight orders (like the templars and hospitaliers) and what the dragoons became. this would also give the new FWL something akin to the old FWL's knights of the sphere.. one of the few ideas of the false-marik that is worth saving.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 23 July 2014, 22:05:49
Which one did Rikkard command?  I remember it had ATMs.
That would be the aforementioned 9.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 23 July 2014, 22:16:59
Look up Clan 'Mechs available to the Republic as well.

Finally, the Sprit Cat 'MMechs from MWDA could also have a few clues as to what zcould be found in the Protectorate. Marauder II,  Warhammer IIC, Dasher II, Mad Cat Mk II immediately come to mind. Also the Shadow Hawk IIC 9 is a Spirit Cat signature Mech
pretty much all of those are obtained through the Sea Foxes. pretty much every faction in the IS uses them to some degree.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tbrminsanity on 24 July 2014, 13:28:43
an interesting line of thought popped up in the design thread, decided to cross post to where it would could be discussed without derailing the thread..
and my response:

that just means there will be a shortage of trueborns. i'm pretty sure they'll rely more heavily on the 'freeborns' recruited from within the protectorate.. personally i think it would be fun if they end up becoming more of a brotherhood of warriors type organization and not a self contained clan.. 'adopting' into itself elite/capable troops from all over the protectorate/NuFWL, inducting them into the Spirit Cat traditions. perhaps even adopt the idea of 'honornames' from the old Wolfs Dragoons, with the names of their original spirit cat members (and perhaps a fair number of Nova Cats) being bestowed similar to bloodnames, but with the recipients not having to actually have blood relations to the original.

sort of a mix of the old knight orders (like the templars and hospitaliers) and what the dragoons became. this would also give the new FWL something akin to the old FWL's knights of the sphere.. one of the few ideas of the false-marik that is worth saving.

I've opened a Design Challenge thread under the Fan Design section of the forms.  I think I'll end up making two designs, one for the Trueborn commanders, and one for Freeborn warriors.  I see (similar to WiE) CSC adding bloodnames to the eugenics program for Freeborns that prove that they are worthy of immortality.  This will give Freeborns the opportunity to become "gods" while furthering the eugenics program.  This will make the HW Clans and die hard clans (CJF) furious, but who cares at this point.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 July 2014, 14:10:24
Make it a hybrid . . .

For the Nova Cat bloodnames among the Spirit Cats that are extinct- and there has to be some- they now become Honornames (Or ProtectorNames?).  When originally set up, any freeborn could qualify based on their deeds and service to the Clan- lets say Joe Schmuck managed to singlehandedly knock out a Crusader Wolf star colonel in a recent Trial, gaining the Loremaster's (do they even have this position? or any of the traditional ones? or perhaps it would be Oathmaster, which seems to be Julietta . . . ) notice who will be charged for starting the initial rounds of Honorname Trials.  Joe competes against 7 other freeborns in the abbreviated Trial for the Carns Honorname.  Joe wins the whole Trial, becomes Joe Schmuck Carns though to the trueborns he is just Joe Carns.  For the Carns Honor/ProtectorName, Joe's genes are taken into their breeding program.  Scientists will be able to breed sibkos of his genes and any other Carns H/PNamed warrior or bargain for crossing outside the H/PHouse.

It offers a lot of potential to include the population of Marik in particular and even the other worlds of the Protectorate.  And is a unique twist for the Spirit Cats.

One other question is . . . how much would Fox & Cat genes mix?

Also, I am not sure the Cats would need a version of the Tiburon- they have the Havoc after all, just upgrade it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 24 July 2014, 14:53:22
Hmmm, combined with the persistant Kerensky Savior complex surviving in the FWL, despite the clan invasion, I could see this going down the road to a Dune style Jihad.  That'd be fun, right?  The Nova Cats put down one jihad to start another.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 24 July 2014, 16:02:34
Hmmm, combined with the persistant Kerensky Savior complex surviving in the FWL, despite the clan invasion, I could see this going down the road to a Dune style Jihad.  That'd be fun, right?  The Nova Cats put down one jihad to start another.

I love this idea!

Paul Nova Cat can lead it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 24 July 2014, 16:23:48
EH, I'd be hesitant postulating anything about freeborns and trueborns until we see more about how the actual Protectorate is run.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Pa Weasley on 24 July 2014, 17:09:50
Psh, you want actual information to base your idle speculation on? What fun is that?  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 05 August 2014, 10:36:38
The Spirit Cats would certainly welcome in freeborns to help defend their territory, but I can't see them not wanting to start back up a Trueborn breeding program.  With the Sea Foxes present, it's really only a matter of time before they purchase the necessary equipment for their scientist caste to get it running, if they haven't already.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 05 August 2014, 11:27:53
Right after they took over Marik they set up shop. Julietta was surprised. They had lower castemen everywhere. So I am certain they've set up a trueborn breeding program.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 05 August 2014, 11:40:50
It would amuse me to no end if all the big Clans smashed themselves squabbling over Terra only for the Spirit Cats to emerge as the only one with a real Touman. It's always the quiet kids in the back of the class you have to look out for...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 05 August 2014, 15:18:18
Right after they took over Marik they set up shop. Julietta was surprised. They had lower castemen everywhere. So I am certain they've set up a trueborn breeding program.

Well at least started to.  Establishing a new eugenics program basically from scratch is going to take a lot of time, resources and expertise.

The scientist caste comprises only a small portion of the lower castes and the Spirit Cats had little use for them, especially for those who specialized in eugenics, while they were fighting in the Republic.  After all they believed that even if the Nova Cat eugenics facilities in the Republic were lost, the main portion of the eugenics program was safe back home with the Nova Cats (until it wasn't).  The Sea Foxes might be willing and able to provide machinery but the Spina Khanate only has a limited number of eugenics specialists who are overseeing their own eugenics program and are likely only be able to lend a handful of scientists for a limited amount of time.  They are going to be busy simply laying down the groundwork (gathering samples, organizing the eugenics database, etc).  However, there might be a handful of eugenics scientists among the Nova Cat refugees who can take over and get the eugenics program off the ground.  Of course there is likely to be some issues between the Nova Cats and the Spirit Cats that cause problems with the program (a Nova Cat not wanting his/her genes combined with those of a Spirit Cat, etc) but it is unlikely to be something that can't be worked out.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 05 August 2014, 16:06:57
  Of course there is likely to be some issues between the Nova Cats and the Spirit Cats that cause problems with the program (a Nova Cat not wanting his/her genes combined with those of a Spirit Cat, etc) but it is unlikely to be something that can't be worked out.

I see what you mean, this indeed would be problematic if our Clan Warriors were named Spirit Cat instead of Nova Cat.

Can you imagine the fun we'd be having with a Trueborn Warrior known as Kisho Spirit Cat?  None of the Clan Warriors carry Spirit Cat as part of their name.  We don't name them after the Cluster or Galaxy they get posted to. 

As for genetic code for the eugenics program, fresh samples from not dead yet warriors can be kept safe.  There may also be temporary repositories in Republic Enclaves that have not been damaged by the Combine. 

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 05 August 2014, 16:31:41
What if someone slipped into Irece just before the combine came for it and slipped out with all the sibkos, the scientists,  and the entire Genetic Repository?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 05 August 2014, 16:33:05
It would amuse me to no end if all the big Clans smashed themselves squabbling over Terra only for the Spirit Cats to emerge as the only one with a real Touman. It's always the quiet kids in the back of the class you have to look out for...

To be honest, a lot of Nova Cat fans around the boards were holding their breath for something like that. It... didn't go anywhere like we hoped, obviously.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 05 August 2014, 16:39:55
@WONC

Technically that's what happened after the Jihad.  Had all the Nova Cats and their warships stayed in Irece CNC would've been possibly THE most powerful Clan Touman following the Jihad, with 6+ galaxies.  But they had to split between the ROTS and DC.  Stupid Devlin Stone refusing to let the whole Touman join his Rebublic. :/

A few t hings to keep in mind about any possible Eugenics programs in the Clan Protectorate.
- All Spirit Cats still go by the "Nova Cat" surname when not blooded.
- Nova Cat enclaves in Republic space would've had their own genetic repositories and breeding programs, separate from the CNC in DC space program.
- It can be assumed that Nova Cats fleeing Republic Space could have taken those Genetics with them when they hit the Clan Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 05 August 2014, 16:49:38
@WONC

Technically that's what happened after the Jihad.  Had all the Nova Cats and their warships stayed in Irece CNC would've been possibly THE most powerful Clan Touman following the Jihad, with 6+ galaxies.  But they had to split between the ROTS and DC.  Stupid Devlin Stone refusing to let the whole Touman join his Rebublic. :/

A few t hings to keep in mind about any possible Eugenics programs in the Clan Protectorate.
- All Spirit Cats still go by the "Nova Cat" surname when not blooded.
- Nova Cat enclaves in Republic space would've had their own genetic repositories and breeding programs, separate from the CNC in DC space program.
- It can be assumed that Nova Cats fleeing Republic Space could have taken those Genetics with them when they hit the Clan Protectorate.

I don't believe that every enclave would have had their own breeding programs etc, but enough of them might have to cobble something together on Marik.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 05 August 2014, 16:51:37
To be honest, a lot of Nova Cat fans around the boards were holding their breath for something like that. It... didn't go anywhere like we hoped, obviously.

Here's to second chances... With that I've probably doomed us all.  :-\
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 05 August 2014, 16:53:40
Here's to second chances... With that I've probably doomed us all.  :-\

Don't get too glum about it. I'm not a fan of the Spirit Cats, so your odds of survival immediately triple what they would be if I were interested in them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 05 August 2014, 17:10:29
What if someone slipped into Irece just before the combine came for it and slipped out with all the sibkos, the scientists,  and the entire Genetic Repository?

Or what if there was someone already on Irece who managed to slip out before the end?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 05 August 2014, 17:26:28
Whistles innocently. ....

HE might have been spirited away also. Depends on some things being allowed.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 05 August 2014, 19:32:21
What if someone slipped into Irece just before the combine came for it and slipped out with all the sibkos, the scientists,  and the entire Genetic Repository?

My group did run a campaign based on that idea.  In their care went the future of Clan Nova Cat (including a full copy of the Clan's genetic repository as well as technical specs) as well as Emi Kurita's son (they pulled a Franklin Sakamoto switch).  They made it, barely, sacrificing most of a Galaxy in the process.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 05 August 2014, 20:22:01
how much did of what did you bring in and how many dropships did you bring for transport?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 05 August 2014, 22:11:10
Rikkard was out "trying to find a safe haven" for the spirit cats.

Rikkard believed that something terrible would happen to the nova cats.
Kev Ross also figured they were all going to die and was a spiritual guide to Rikkard.

You have to remember that the Spirit Cats were not being randomly aggressive, nor were they surprised that the nova cats got massacred.

When your whole game is to find a safe haven for the future of your clan you do not forget to bring the dudes who make that future possible.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 06 August 2014, 06:12:13
Or what if there was someone already on Irece who managed to slip out before the end?
It's been what, two years? If he was going to pop up, he'd have popped up by now.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 06 August 2014, 09:56:53
It's been what, two years? If he was going to pop up, he'd have popped up by now.

The storyline really hasn't been advanced since ER3145/FM3145.  Need to wait for the next sourcebook to get updated info on the Clan Protectorate and its possible future members.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 06 August 2014, 12:36:56
It's been what, two years? If he was going to pop up, he'd have popped up by now.

Unless somehow they misjumped and ended up in the Homeworlds, where their need to take revenge will push the Cloud Adders to allow them to rebuild and be the vanguard of the assault that burns the Inner Sphere to so much ash.

...A man can dream.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 06 August 2014, 12:49:40
The storyline really hasn't been advanced since ER3145/FM3145.  Need to wait for the next sourcebook to get updated info on the Clan Protectorate and its possible future members.
I meant In universe. The Fall of Irece was in 3143. The book we got those detail in was dated about two years after that, with the statement he hasn't shown up since.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 06 August 2014, 13:02:07
Unless somehow they misjumped and ended up in the Homeworlds, where their need to take revenge will push the Cloud Adders to allow them to rebuild and be the vanguard of the assault that burns the Inner Sphere to so much ash.

...A man can dream.

I wonder whatever happened to the Rossei cloister... I really could see that going either way.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 06 August 2014, 15:24:08
I meant In universe. The Fall of Irece was in 3143. The book we got those detail in was dated about two years after that, with the statement he hasn't shown up since.

The Knights of St Cameron vanished for, IIRC, about three years of in-universe time.

Andrew Redburn was missing for almost ten years before he resurfaced.

There are probably other examples that I am not recalling off the top of my head.

My point: Two years is nothing.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Archangel on 06 August 2014, 15:47:30
I see what you mean, this indeed would be problematic if our Clan Warriors were named Spirit Cat instead of Nova Cat.

Can you imagine the fun we'd be having with a Trueborn Warrior known as Kisho Spirit Cat?  None of the Clan Warriors carry Spirit Cat as part of their name.  We don't name them after the Cluster or Galaxy they get posted to. 

As for genetic code for the eugenics program, fresh samples from not dead yet warriors can be kept safe.  There may also be temporary repositories in Republic Enclaves that have not been damaged by the Combine. 

GC

"I am Hohiro (Kurita) Spirit Cat a direct descendant of Vincent Kurita and rightful heir to the Dragon throne!"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 06 August 2014, 17:04:59
"I am Hohiro (Kurita) Spirit Cat a direct descendant of Vincent Kurita and rightful heir to the Dragon throne!"

I can hear the heads of the Black Dragons exploding now...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 06 August 2014, 20:04:28
I can hear the heads of the Black Dragons exploding now...

At which point, somebody should whisper in the Coordinator's ear, that Hohiro is only the seventynineth iteration of fortytwo sibkos that actually used that blood line.  Yep, I can see how just knowing that can happen would give the entire Combine a lot of sleepless nights. 

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 06 August 2014, 20:36:44
however if he claims the name Daisuke, son of Emi. well thats going to be a whole different kettle of fish stew.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 06 August 2014, 23:53:56
I wonder whatever happened to the Rossei cloister... I really could see that going either way.

From what I've read of the Cobras post-Reaving, a few Cloisters either had their warrior population decreased to nothing, or were actually wiped out in targeted attacks. Now, the Cloister is only the warrior-exclusive "holy order" associated with any given faith in Clan space, so there are probably still plenty of Rossei faithful out there. The thing that bothers me, though, is how the idea of taint could be wielded against a small Cloister like the Rossei, who have such a strong connection with a Clan that was in the Inner Sphere.

I dunno, I have hope (plus, there were only a handful of Cloisters lost in the Reavings) that the Cobras contain the "seed" of what the Cats were, but I don't hold my breath. The idea that the descendants of Cat civilians transfered to the Cobras survived and passed something of themselves to the rest of the Clans has a certain poetry to it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 07 August 2014, 06:11:25
My point: Two years is nothing.
Yeah, I aint holding my breath on this one.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 19 September 2014, 10:21:54
Looks like the Spirit Cats have a color scheme on camospecs  O0

Now I need to learn how to paint white.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 20 September 2014, 03:52:10
Looks like the Spirit Cats have a color scheme on camospecs  O0

Now I need to learn how to paint white.
Have you noticed that they are listed as "Pirates"?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 20 September 2014, 05:04:35
So, based on a single disparaging comment by a retired game developer, we are supposed to ignore everything that made them Clan Warriors, and just accept that a few lost Nova Cat units went rogue and joined a band of outlaws. 

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 20 September 2014, 09:39:20
They're "pirates" based on the fact that the Spirit Cats were never a legitimate force. They were in fact renegades operating against what was their original government (the Republic of the Sphere). All of the MWDA factions, save for the Highlanders, would be in the same situation.

The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors. However, they were still renegades and outlaws to their parent government.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 20 September 2014, 11:10:34
They're "pirates" based on the fact that the Spirit Cats were never a legitimate force. They were in fact renegades operating against what was their original government (the Republic of the Sphere). All of the MWDA factions, save for the Highlanders, would be in the same situation.

Too sweeping a generalization, though Wizkids did initially intend some kind of simplification like that. 

Quote
The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors. However, they were still renegades and outlaws to their parent government.

"The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors."  Period, end of explanation.  Clan Nova Cat never rejected them, what other parent organization would the Spirit Cats claim? 

Abjured, Assimilated, Annihilated, Exterminated are just a few things the Cats have survived over the years, What makes the RotS any different from the other 'parent governments' they've been a part of?

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 20 September 2014, 11:43:57
Too sweeping a generalization, though Wizkids did initially intend some kind of simplification like that. 

Not at all. It's exactly correct. They were a small group acting on their own interests against that of their legitimate government, after having misappropriated equipment from the legitimate military force. Call them rebels, call them insurgents, call them pirates, if you will; it's all the same. Unlike, say, the Dragon's Fury, they didn't declare allegiance to another realm but were pursuing the personal agenda of Kev Rosse and those who bought into his vision. They attacked legitimate military forces of the Republic, they seized military and civilian assets belonging to the Republic, they were pirates. Their goals might have been different from those of Katana Tormark or Aaron Sandoval or Jacob Bannson, but their methods were the same and that makes them pirates.

Quote
"The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors."  Period, end of explanation.

There's your simplification. Yes, the Spirit Cats saw themselves as Clan warriors, but they were also pledged to the Republic. It doesn't matter how the Spirit Cats saw themselves; everyone can justify their own actions however they want. In acting against their orders and in their own interests, they became pirates. Period, end of explanation.

Quote
Clan Nova Cat never rejected them, what other parent organization would the Spirit Cats claim? 

The parent organization they were already pledged to and that had not rejected them? i.e., the Republic. And Clan Nova Cat did reject them; they considered the Spirit Cats a bunch of fools. It wasn't until later, after the Nova Cats were part of the Combine invasion of the Republic and after Kev Rosse's death, that the Clan opened its arms to the Spirit Cats and welcomed them back. Before that, they tried to wipe them out. "They are no more Nova Cats . . . than, say, the Dragon’s Fury are Kuritans." -- Jacali Nostra (Heretic's Faith, p50).

Quote
Abjured, Assimilated, Annihilated, Exterminated are just a few things the Cats have survived over the years, What makes the RotS any different from the other 'parent governments' they've been a part of?

It never abjured, annihilated or exterminated them? It never gave up on them or rejected them? It welcomed them and made them a part of the whole? It allowed their people to experience a freedom they never had among them Clans and accepted their leaders among the top movers and shakers of the Republic? Unlike the examples of people who became part of the Republic just because of what planet they happened to live on in 3081, the ancestors of the Spirit Cats voluntarily joined Stone's dream and broke from their own people to do so; in many ways, their betrayal is worse than that of a Katana Tormark or a Jasek Kelswa-Steiner.

You can like the Spirit Cats (heck, I like the Spirit Cats) all you want but don't hold any illusions about their behavior.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 20 September 2014, 21:05:31
Clan Nova Cat never rejected them, what other parent organization would the Spirit Cats claim?

They did at one point.  Kisho ordered all attacks against the Spirits Cats.

Quote
Abjured, Assimilated, Annihilated, Exterminated are just a few things the Cats have survived over the years, What makes the RotS any different from the other 'parent governments' they've been a part of?

Because the Republic never did one thing wrong to the Spirit Cats.  The Spirit Cats in return for sheltering the Nova Cats and giving them say in Republic affairs as Paladins, Knights and Senators, Kev Rosse decided to take Republic worlds for himself.  Instead of standing up for the Republic in a time of crisis, Kev Rosse took advantage.  He is not very far off from Kal Raddick likewise turning his back on the Republic instead of standing up for the government in which he once held power.
Title: Hair Splitting
Post by: Peacemaker on 20 September 2014, 21:55:35
I never liked how certain writers referred to the various Blackout rebels as pirates. To me, piracy implies simple plundering and looting without a political motive. With the exception of the Steel Wolves under Anastasia Kerensky's tenure and possibly Bannson's Raiders, all of the Republic splinter factions had a strong political agenda. Sure, you can make a case that they were all technically pirates, but I think calling them that is unnecessarily obtuse; why not just call them insurgents, rebels, splinter factions or something more clear?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 20 September 2014, 22:51:45
I just realized that I still don't have an answer to the Purifiers Cluster paint scheme  :(

All I know is the bit about glyphs...
Title: Re: Hair Splitting
Post by: Deadborder on 20 September 2014, 23:03:14
I never liked how certain writers referred to the various Blackout rebels as pirates. To me, piracy implies simple plundering and looting without a political motive. With the exception of the Steel Wolves under Anastasia Kerensky's tenure and possibly Bannson's Raiders, all of the Republic splinter factions had a strong political agenda. Sure, you can make a case that they were all technically pirates, but I think calling them that is unnecessarily obtuse; why not just call them insurgents, rebels, splinter factions or something more clear?

Because "Pirate" is a pre-existing category on the Camospecs page and it's simple and straightforward to file all such insurgent, rebel, splinter and so on factions under the one header rather then add yet another category for what are, at best, minor factions.

That aside, the Spirit Cats were an illegal organisation operating against the legitimate government. They co-opted, stole, looted or otherwise illegally acquired weapons, 'Mechs and vehicles from the Republic Armed Forces. They attacked Republic forces, Republic citizens and Republic property. They invaded and occupied Republic worlds. All of this was done under their own volition. They're pirates, even if you dress it up as something else.

Now don't get me wrong; I like the Spirit Cats. They're one of my favourites of the MWDA factions. I'm also not under any illusions as to what they were or what they did either.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 21 September 2014, 10:49:55
When you get right down to it, there are no factions in the Battletech Universe that isn't perpetrating some form of Piracy.  It comes from capturing, salvaging and repurposing weapons and equipment to continue a war that might have ended from pure attrition. 

What I can object to is the extensive use of the term Canon to justify what is really just a personal and biased Opinion expressed in ten words or less by a single character in a novel or story.  Mostly because FASA set that precedent years ago with the very first source books.  Sometimes more is explained later, but mostly things get retconned until they no longer resemble what you thought you knew.

Quote
"They are no more Nova Cats . . . than, say, the Dragon’s Fury are Kuritans." -- Jacali Nostra (Heretic's Faith, p50).

I would have said this was patently false, but it's more like an oxymoron.  Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine.  The Nova Cats never treated their element in the Republic with the same sort of contempt.  Of course fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge and we can only hope that none of those original volunteers were still serving on the front lines during the Dark Age.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: martian on 21 September 2014, 11:33:25
Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine. 
Could you elaborate? I thought that the Draconis Combine "gifted" 9th Sword of Light to the Republic. No other regiments.
And said SoL regiment was disbanded shortly after that and its manpower and equipment were used to build various new RAF regiments.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 21 September 2014, 13:06:34
When you get right down to it, there are no factions in the Battletech Universe that isn't perpetrating some form of Piracy.  It comes from capturing, salvaging and repurposing weapons and equipment to continue a war that might have ended from pure attrition. 

There is a tricky hinterland here.  The Spirit Cats, unlike the various states of the Inner Sphere are not operating under the claim of popular sovereignty.  They were a breakoff group of an ethnic group that was formally recognized by the Republic.  If they want to claim sovereignty no one can stop them.  However, even the Republic had gotten majority consent of the other nations in the Inner Sphere prior to it's formation.  The Spirit Cats absconding with RAF materials and fighters, then setting up shop on Republic worlds is a far different process.  Basically, if ten people agree to take over your block because they are of the same mind are they a legitimate political body with intentions of running these worlds, or simply interested in power?  It is a question the modern UN has grappled with.  What constitutes a nation?


Quote
I would have said this was patently false, but it's more like an oxymoron.  Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine.  The Nova Cats never treated their element in the Republic with the same sort of contempt.  Of course fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge and we can only hope that none of those original volunteers were still serving on the front lines during the Dark Age.

It comes from the same area, cultural exclusivity.  Those Nova Cats over there, those aren't real Nova Cats.  We're the real Nova Cats.  All the other Nova Cats are just pretenders, and we own all Nova Catness.  Substitute Nova Cat with Kuritan and there you go.  Dragon's Fury members were culturally Kuritan, and felt the call of the Combine to return.  Powers within the Combine dismiss them as partisans and pretenders.  But, from the perspective of the Dragon's Fury, raised in a Combine influenced culture, likely in Japanese speaking households, no one gets to tell them they are or are not Kuritan.  Sadly, this practice goes on in many places all over the world.  The term "plastic Paddy" springs to mind, but it isn't exclusive.

There is also a political aspect to the Dragon's Fury.  Vincent Kurita didn't choose to acknowledge the Dragon's Fury for some time because the Dragon was formally allied to the Republic.  He didn't want to appear to be cheering the demise of the Republic, or be accused of recognizing partisans taking over Republic worlds, sometimes with still functional Republic governments and garrisons.  He also had pressure from the Warlords.  If Deiron district was going to be reclaimed it would be by the DCMS when he chose.  Having his hand forced by Katana Tormark was where he wavered for some time.  Katana expected Vincent to immediately recognize her cause, and had severe moments of doubt when he didn't.

Not that Khan Nostra's musing matter at this point.  The Spirit Cats are the only major Nova Cat body even surviving with known autonomy.  They are Nova Cat by default, thank you very much.  The surviving Nova Cats that joined them in the Protectorate only add an air of legitimacy to their claim.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 21 September 2014, 19:37:03
Pirates are awesome
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Savage Coyote on 22 September 2014, 11:05:15
Captain SparrowThe only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do. For instance, you can accept that your father was a pirate and a good man or you can't. But pirate is in your blood, boy, so you'll have to square with that some day.

 ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 September 2014, 09:19:13
Captain SparrowThe only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do. For instance, you can accept that your father was a pirate and a good man or you can't. But pirate is in your blood, boy, so you'll have to square with that some day.

 ;D

Bravo! Well played.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 11 November 2014, 21:58:10
When you get right down to it, there are no factions in the Battletech Universe that isn't perpetrating some form of Piracy.  It comes from capturing, salvaging and repurposing weapons and equipment to continue a war that might have ended from pure attrition. 

What I can object to is the extensive use of the term Canon to justify what is really just a personal and biased Opinion expressed in ten words or less by a single character in a novel or story.  Mostly because FASA set that precedent years ago with the very first source books.  Sometimes more is explained later, but mostly things get retconned until they no longer resemble what you thought you knew.

I would have said this was patently false, but it's more like an oxymoron.  Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine.  The Nova Cats never treated their element in the Republic with the same sort of contempt.  Of course fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge and we can only hope that none of those original volunteers were still serving on the front lines during the Dark Age.

GC

According to the ER and other Dark Age Material, the Nova Cats in Kuritan Space became far less "Nova Catness" with a big loss of mysticism following the 2nd Combine-Dominion War.  The ROTS Cats meanwhile maintained that mysticism.  That did create a rift of sorts.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: marauder648 on 12 November 2014, 03:46:30
I'm glad some of the Spirit/Nova's survived, and who knows other exiles might make their way there too. I doubt any of those who did a runner during the WotR would get that far.  Either unwilling or simply unable due to sheer logistical distance.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 November 2014, 09:52:33
I'm not sure. For instance, the Purifiers have a strange hate on for clan wolf.

The Clan Protectorate is the name of a free world's league political entity and not really a haven for clans that haven't made it.

Clan Sea Fox has always had a good relationship with the spirit cats / nova cats.

Not too sure about the other clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 16 December 2014, 18:31:54
@Klat
Look at the Dark Age Models!
(http://940ee6dce6677fa01d25-0f55c9129972ac85d6b1f4e703468e6b.r99.cf2.rackcdn.com/products/pictures/106187.jpg)
They are gray and white!

For another example look at the chamoe spec paining!
(i am a Purifiers player too and i saved me all MWDA pictures of Miniatures and sorted them by faction)

@All
I agree with Peacemaker  and in same way have Deadborder right too!
Sure is simpler to sort them by pirates (why not)

But i wonder all note the Republic as the Cats goverment! O_o
The major goverment of the Spirits Cats (Clanners) are CLAN NOVA CAT! (They order them in to the Republic)
And in the other way Kev Rosse was and Republic Senator and with this and so the cats have a certain legitimacy.
But when the Spirits Cats break free they break clan law & honor and the law of the republic.
They become a Rebel Group, maybe some call them terrorist and other freedom fighter...

Falsche Son said some things i really agree him too.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Spirits Cats are accepted as a Clan by Clan Diamond Sharks, the last Nova Cat survivors and House Marik.
As Pirates they are like the Bandits from the Dark Cast  and the Sea Fox have to anihilate them.

And the Republic can only see them as Rebels.
( For some people are rebels the same thing like Pirates and criminals. )

But in all they are later part of Marik in the Clan Potectorate.

What i don't like is they count as pirates is that some players could think they are bad guys who plunder, raped and force some worlds.
But in fact they only take some worlds to get an own home.

The Clan Potectorate with 2 Clans inside the new Free Worlds League is still a fantastic idea!

By Camoe specs i would sort themy under Marik now, or standing extra like the Foxes did now (and the foxes i would sort under diamond sharks) !!



Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 01 January 2015, 08:33:34
I've been painting White mechs for quite a while.  It was a natural progression in camouflage schemes, Woodland Forrest, Midnight Blue, Desert Ground, Urban Winter.  Oh yeah, the Scarlet Knights and Crimson Guard needed lots of Red.  That they end up looking like a Sword of Light regiment is pure coincidence. 

And there were a few specials that are better off remaining Unseen. 

I still remember the Elements of Style posted by WizKids when they finally released the Nova Cats in the Dark Age game.  Even then, people were calling for the end of the Cat Combine Alliance, and the Spirit Cats were breaking away from the mystical Zen Warrior cosplay.  Now, it's Native American Ghost Dancers on the warpath that seems to be over done.

Even so, we'll keep a few of the Catgirl Battlemaid Aprons (CBAs ya know?) only because some things never go out of style and we like them.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 06 January 2015, 11:37:37
The Spirit Cats are not only WHITE
they are more WHITE AND GREY  ;)

Example:
(http://940ee6dce6677fa01d25-0f55c9129972ac85d6b1f4e703468e6b.r99.cf2.rackcdn.com/products/pictures/134065.jpg)
(http://www.thewarstore.org/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/2/128_1.jpg)
(http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150106/lql8kf82.png)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 January 2015, 11:53:54
Sometimes they use tan, though it might just be dirt. Clan Sea Foxes scheme from the dark ages didn't translate over to Camospecs. But I assume it would still be, "White" and another color. Maybe not black, but I wouldn't put it past them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 January 2015, 11:56:08
http://camospecs.com/Faction.asp?ID=188

Case in point. Compared to:

http://www.warrenborn.com/Search.php?FACTION=Clan Sea Fox
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 06 January 2015, 12:00:28
Wizkids used the secondary color to indicate the level of experience and readiness.  If the unit was mostly Gray, it was a Green unit (had less experience) and usually cost less.  At this point, I am just happy that Spirit Cats were not stuck with the Capella Green and Orange camouflage colors, or ended up as confused as the Rusty Puppies.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Klat on 06 January 2015, 16:53:20
I'd still like to know what the glyphs are all about with the Purifiers Cluster.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: roosterboy on 06 January 2015, 17:05:00
I'd still like to know what the glyphs are all about with the Purifiers Cluster.

They are intended to impart a degree of protection to whatever has them painted on it. Same kind of apotropaic function as crucifixes or phalli or eyes or any other such symbol painted/inscribed/carved/etc on something.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 06 January 2015, 17:07:34
They are intended to impart a degree of protection to whatever has them painted on it. Same kind of apotropaic function as crucifixes or phalli or eyes or any other such symbol painted/inscribed/carved/etc on something.

"HORNED RAT!  PROTECT US!"

"You are not remotely taking this seriously, are you, Warrior Steve?"

"No I am not."
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Savage Coyote on 06 January 2015, 18:56:25
http://camospecs.com/Faction.asp?ID=188

Case in point. Compared to:

http://www.warrenborn.com/Search.php?FACTION=Clan Sea Fox

Since I did most of the Sea Fox stuff, I figured that when they changed their names, they decided to break away from the Shark identity and completely restart.  I used the two DA schemes for two of the Khanate and then tried to do two schemes per unit, an "elite warrior" type of scheme that really means "elite painter" (lots of details or craziness) and an "every day warrior" scheme which really means an easy to paint scheme that is friendly to novice painters and expert painters alike.

At least, that was my thinking.  Tying it all into the ocean or at least, the best I could, was the other aspect
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 January 2015, 20:37:16
And it all looks amazing Coyote. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 07 January 2015, 08:03:17
They are intended to impart a degree of protection to whatever has them painted on it. Same kind of apotropaic function as crucifixes or phalli or eyes or any other such symbol painted/inscribed/carved/etc on something.
It's also a call back to Clan Nova Cat's Xi galaxy, who used the same paint scheme, and for the same reason.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 January 2015, 19:25:27
It's also a call back to Clan Nova Cat's Xi galaxy, who used the same paint scheme, and for the same reason.

Also due to their connections to the Cloud Cobras via the Rossei Cloister.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 29 January 2015, 11:50:25
interesting  O0
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 29 August 2015, 09:35:16
So with TRO 3150 out, seems like the Protectorate still has good news coming its way.  Kisho and his band of survivors are out there somewhere, and other Nova Cats have managed to make the journey.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: SteveRestless on 29 August 2015, 13:03:48
Sounds like the protectorate's also making a Guillotine IIc variant on Angel II, according to the NTNU section under the Tempest.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jklantern on 29 August 2015, 16:05:25
Sounds like the protectorate's also making a Guillotine IIc variant on Angel II, according to the NTNU section under the Tempest.

I really need to invest in the newer TROs.  I REALLY do.  Any time I hear that a Clan Secondline Mech is still in production somewhere, that is GOOD news.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 August 2015, 16:27:14
While I wish it was the original- the 2 cLPL would be why it is not- the Guillotine IIC 2 is a 4/6/6, ERPPC, 4 ERML, TC and SSRM4 is ok . . . it also has a SFE, but I do not remember if the ammo is still in the CT or not.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: SteveRestless on 29 August 2015, 19:19:04
Do we know that's what they're making though?

All I've got here is

"Even the Wolves were impressed -- While Angel II's Guillotine Line was Upgraded to IIc standards"

Which, I suppose doesn't even necessarily mean a new variant, but I don't know why the original would particularly impress Clan Wolf. Do we know what Guillotine was being built there previously?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 August 2015, 19:41:03
I would take that to mean they were not fielding or likely facing many Guillotine IICs- it was a Homeworlds design after all, even though it was a trooper through the early Golden Century.  I mean we like it because its a slower Gargoyle A with all the savage hammering that implies.

Original or 2, I would take it to mean that Angel II is pumping out enough the Crusader Wolves are seeing enough they are getting a pretty solid combat analysis/history in the units they are facing.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 30 August 2015, 13:15:16
It could also mean the Wolves are impressed by the Spirit Cat's ability to produce clan-spec technology and fight toe-to-toe with them.  Whereas the Ghost Bears would declare the Cats dezgra, Clan Wolf seems to be more pragmatic and is willing to recognize the Spirit Cats as more than just warriors that call themselves Clan, IF the Cats can measure up.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 September 2015, 16:45:46
How is this for a Clan Protectorate trinary?

Striker Star
Nova Cat
Juliano (Clan)
Ha Otoko
Mad Cat Mk II 4
Warhammer IIC 4


Close Assault Star
Mad Cat Mk II Enhanced
Guillotine IIC
Guillotine IIC 2
Anzu
Blackhawk (Std)


Rogue Star
Tiburon
Mongoose II -267
Spider 8K
Havoc
Solitaire
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dreyf on 09 September 2015, 21:46:51
It could also mean the Wolves are impressed by the Spirit Cat's ability to produce clan-spec technology and fight toe-to-toe with them.  Whereas the Ghost Bears would declare the Cats dezgra, Clan Wolf seems to be more pragmatic and is willing to recognize the Spirit Cats as more than just warriors that call themselves Clan, IF the Cats can measure up.

The Protectorate is more than just the Spirit Cats.  The Foxes could easily be the main reason the line was upgraded and no one would be impressed because they are building anything with Clan-tech.  The forces the Wolves are facing could also be from the Foxes or one of the mostly native clusters that were being raised.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 21 September 2015, 05:34:39
The Protectorate is more than just the Spirit Cats.  The Foxes could easily be the main reason the line was upgraded and no one would be impressed because they are building anything with Clan-tech.  The forces the Wolves are facing could also be from the Foxes or one of the mostly native clusters that were being raised.

True, but given that 80% of the combat-capable Clusters are predominately Spirit Cat, it would be safe to assume that's who the Wolves are primarily fighting.  With regards to the factory upgrades, that's most likely Sea Fox intervention, which is cool.  Every new release seems to give more and more clues that the Spirit Cat-Sea Fox preserve is here to stay. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jh316 on 22 October 2015, 21:25:27
Making a 3145 megamek server. I'm not really familiar with the status of the Clan Protectorate, mostly in the kind of designs they're fielding. Any kind of advice would be great. Did designs like the Avalanche and Wendigo end up in Protectorate hands? Are they still producing the Havoc and Gambit on Abadan in their original configurations?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 October 2015, 22:42:48
Wendigos at least. No information on what's up with the factories in the protectorate. They have their own line in the field manual but we have just got a single page of information on them right now.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 23 October 2015, 00:47:13
Both the Wendigo and Avalanche are used by the FWLM, so presumably they're in the Protectorate clusters. TRO3150 also mentions that they have a few Cave Lions as well.

Given thier origins, you could make a good case for them having a few common Nova Cat 'Mechs like the Morrigan, Shadow Cat, Nova Cat or Sphinx, but until we get MUL updates we can't say for sure.

As yet, there's no indication that the Gambit or Havoc lines have been upgraded. However, they are producing the Guillotine IIC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 23 October 2015, 15:41:24
Making a 3145 megamek server. I'm not really familiar with the status of the Clan Protectorate, mostly in the kind of designs they're fielding. Any kind of advice would be great. Did designs like the Avalanche and Wendigo end up in Protectorate hands? Are they still producing the Havoc and Gambit on Abadan in their original configurations?

Field Manual should have RATs for FWL with modifications for the Clan Protectorate as I recall.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 28 October 2015, 06:12:53
A new book with more detailed information, Faction paint sheme and colored Insignias woulde be welcome where you can read more over Marics hins Faction latest Army Structurs and the new Formed Clan Potectorate and the Forces.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 28 October 2015, 10:16:34
I think you mean Book...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 28 October 2015, 13:24:25
lol funny write error  :D ;D ::)

i fix it sorry
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 10 January 2016, 18:05:58
So I recently got ahold of all my old Dark Age novels, and was rereading To Ride the Chimera because why not, and I was on the first Julietta of Marik section (Once she was on Marik), and she mentions observing all of the support personnel and non-warrior Spirit Cats who are now on-planet, including the children

I always missed that part before, but I think that confirms that the Spirit Cats had some sibkos along with them. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 January 2016, 12:53:28
Yeah. The Spirit Cats put a lot of money on a gamble but they were prepared to back it up if it won.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 January 2016, 16:04:37
Except she will not be seeing warrior sibkos wandering the city.  They are going to be off in some training area on a base.  The children she sees running around will be the freebirth offspring of techs, merchants and laborers.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 24 February 2016, 22:17:07
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=37756.0

New chapter of my Spirit Cat Dark Age story out.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 June 2016, 14:43:58
Little mental exercise . . .

The Spirit Cats are producing some Clan spec gear in the Protectorate, either importing parts or building them locally.

But what about improving what they already have or salvage from the Wolf front that is IS equipment or the Regulans when the push comes against them?

Say you were the officer in charge of upgrading the touman . . . would you select assaults to be refit? heavies?  mediums?  lights?  would you select based on a speed?

What about what Clan spec weapons you would try to get built locally?  ACs or Large Lasers for example?  Would that affect what you would refit?

Got to thinking about this for how the Protectorate might handle a Cerberus they inherited or salvage from the Regulans?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 21 June 2016, 16:14:35
well, the world of Angell in the protectorate is a site of Irian Technologies, so i'd look at what they make there to start. while the onlything we know that site makes is the Juliano, we can presume the Cats could work a deal to license one of the other designs to be made there as well.
this would mean the Hermes, Hermes II, Trebuchet, Guillotine, Tempest, Awesome, Albatross, Wasp, quickdraw, blackjack-O, strider, and Stalker could be possibilities.

the Blackjack and Strider Omni's could be refit easily, just mount clan weapons pods. (and even if not being built specially for the protectorate, likely would be something they purchase.)

personally i'd pick an older design (easier to license and build), and give it the "C" refit treatment.
like say, the Hermes II -2S model, refit with a clan AC5, ERML, and flamer. say a UAC (and use the saved ton to add more ammo)
with a succession wars level chassis, engine, armor, and single heatsinks, the basic design would be cheap to build. and the clan weapons mean it can boast firepower on par with the post-Helm -5S model, without resorting to the use of Endo and DHS of that model. not exactly spectacular, but a goodway to bulk out the touman on the cheap side.

or the trebuchet -5J model, using clan LRM's to bring it back to the dual 15 rack, drop one ML for extra ammo, and upgrade the remainign 2 to clan ER's. no major heat issues even when jumping, your firepower stays pretty much the same as the non-jumping introtech model, and you now have better endurance.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jackson123 on 21 June 2016, 16:20:57
Or the clint which could be upgraded with lg pulse lasers and med pulse.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 June 2016, 16:27:53
Actually, not what I was meaning . . . we know they are also producing a Guillotine IIC there . . . but I am talking about a collection of techs refitting captured designs or ones assigned to Protectorate units that are made up of IS tech.

In some cases, chassis would benefit from Clan DHS or XL engines over IS versions.  Like a Warhammer 7M with Clan ERPPCs which gives it 50% more long range punch but otherwise the same.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 21 June 2016, 16:44:43
i would assume most of those would be on a "as needed" basis.. hard to be specific there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 June 2016, 17:00:26
Well, flip it . . . build/collect a large pile of 'parts' like . . .

Clan ERPPCs . . . every mech they have gets the IS ERPPC pulled (and the Sea Foxes selling as a used part to the nFWL) to be replaced by a Clan model.  Or say 280 IS XLs, or DHS, or IS ERMLs, etc- basically what equipment change would you try to give a boost to the Clan Protectorate touman.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 23 June 2016, 15:49:39
Interesting question, I'm sure. Most of the surviving Clan Omnis would be consolidated into as many full Stars and Trinaries as they can make while a few might be assigned to second line units until full replacement parts were available. 

There are many Inner Sphere designs appearing in the Nova Cat/Spirit Cat touman that are quite acceptable such as the Vixen/Incubus, Wendigo, Avalanche, Gambit, and Hellion.  Just to name a few.  Mostly, I think the Cats can't afford to be too picky about what mechs they have 'on hand', and are likely to repurpose any conveniently captured equipment for their own use. 

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 June 2016, 19:35:43
Sure . . . but since no one else has answered I will trot out my 3 big fixes-

Clan XLs . . . whatever rating they have the most mechs using, for example the 280 XL would be used by mechs like the Havoc (35t & 8/12) and Guillotines, Hercules & Archers (70t & 4/6) for example . . . perhaps by others.  Frees up a few tons for other things and makes them less likely to be crippled in battle.

Clan ER Large & Medium Lasers . . . swapping these out as they are able increases the damage and range while being the same for heat.  Its another easy improvement to see.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 23 July 2016, 18:50:23
heavies and heavier mediums would be what i would focus on, they give you more flexibility
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 23 July 2016, 18:58:33
hmm.. you could switch any IS ER medium lasers to the clan models without effecting the heat profiles of the unit, but would increase the firepower by a lot.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 23 July 2016, 19:52:13
I would do unspeakable things for a Clantech upgraded Carronade.  That thing's already nasty as hell.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 26 October 2016, 08:19:34
i would love a pdf & book with new Clan Protectorate with Story, more informations and new Mech designs who base on the captured Mechs.
i would love a brand new experimental Omni-Mech for the i.S. to sell where the protectorate have only the most powerfull version.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: False Son on 26 October 2016, 09:08:15
I would do unspeakable things for a Clantech upgraded Carronade.  That thing's already nasty as hell.

Clan Gauss rifles are the same tonnage as LGRs.  Imagine all those swaps in the League that could be made...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 26 October 2016, 20:47:24
Though you only get half as many shots per ton, so you can't quite one-for-one
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 01 February 2017, 16:23:13
i thinking still but not so silent that you can't read me...  ;D

Who rule now have the protectorate to follow Mariks order or have they a chair in the new found Goverment ???
...alone the Sea Fox and double Cats are an interesting patchwork

Are the Novacats Cluter equal and Self-employed or just under command of the Spirit Cats (like an absorbed Cluster) ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 01 February 2017, 19:25:46
i thinking still but not so silent that you can't read me...  ;D

Who rule now have the protectorate to follow Mariks order or have they a chair in the new found Goverment ???
...alone the Sea Fox and double Cats are an interesting patchwork

Are the Novacats Cluter equal and Self-employed or just under command of the Spirit Cats (like an absorbed Cluster) ?

Each planet rules itself. They get together and elect someone MP, who then goes to Atreus. The military forces are led by the Spirit Cat Galaxy Commander, who is currently Rikkard Nova Cat.

The Nova Cat refugees from the Republic are concentrated in the Nova Cat Provisionals, and as they're led by a Star Colonel, they report to the Galaxy Commander. I've always looked at it as a weird hybrid of returning to the fold and being absorbed.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 01 February 2017, 19:48:30
Abtakha for the Clan term adopted into the Clan
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 04 March 2017, 06:52:36
When the Nova Cat cluster is Abtaka or Absorbed the Nova Cats are truly destroyed in my eyes.
As thrid faction in this Protectorate i would love more in the hope the cats grew up again to a Clan (I like when player can play them factions forward)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 March 2017, 07:38:31
I've always found that outlook interesting.

The Spirit Cats, with their focus on mysticism and spirituality, stayed truer to their Nova Cat roots than the main body of the Nova Cats. Reading the material, you see a loss of faith amongst the Nova Cats in the Combine, and yet they're held up as the epitome of the Clan. The Nova Cats in the Republic are viewed positively because they're good little house cats that stay in their enclaves and give all their technological secrets to the Republic.

The Spirit Cats are demonized, marginalized and viewed as dangerous 'cultists' because they followed the vision of a leader, a vision that led them to betray their patron society, the Republic. But the main body of the Nova Cats did that twice before: when they broke with the Clans to join the Star League, and when they ran off to join Stone's Coalition (aka. the Republic).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 05 March 2017, 13:48:37
The Nova Cat refugees from the Republic are concentrated in the Nova Cat Provisionals, and as they're led by a Star Colonel, they report to the Galaxy Commander. I've always looked at it as a weird hybrid of returning to the fold and being absorbed.

given how little time has passed since they started doing that, i suspect it is just a temporary measure. shunting the refugees into their own formation makes it simplier to organize, and helps to avoid forcing the incoming people from having to choose allegiances blind.

i suspect the Spirit Cat leadership, and whatever Nova Cat leadership made it to the Protectorate so far, have been hashing out how to handle things. are the Spirit Cats a clan of their own or just the biggest Nova Cat fragment? what do you do with the Nova Cats that don't want to join the Spirit Cats officially? etc.
once the flow of refugees slows to a trickle, they'll officially integrate them into the Spirit Cats or reform the Nova Cats or whatever the outcome of those discussions decides.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 05 March 2017, 19:13:53
I need a name for a Protectorate-built fast medium 'Mec. Figured y'all might have some good suggestions.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CrazyGrasshopper on 05 March 2017, 22:16:19
Sea Cat?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 05 March 2017, 23:38:08
Mad Cat III.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 05 March 2017, 23:59:42
Mad Cat III.

I like where your head's at.. but if he wants a *new* mech name he could go with Mad Cat π.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 06 March 2017, 00:16:45
Oh, derp.  I thought he was asking for a new (obviously relatively) fast Medium 'Mech produced in the Protectorate.  Whoops. :D

That said, my vote goes to Barracuda.  Which, to my knowledge, not only represents a fast, sleek, and dangerous ocean predator, but has also never been used on a BattleTech unit to date.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 06 March 2017, 02:50:22
Oh, derp.  I thought he was asking for a new (obviously relatively) fast Medium 'Mech produced in the Protectorate.  Whoops. :D

That said, my vote goes to Barracuda.  Which, to my knowledge, not only represents a fast, sleek, and dangerous ocean predator, but has also never been used on a BattleTech unit to date.

I like it. So much so that we're already using it for another unit  :P
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kojak on 06 March 2017, 03:13:27
How about the Caracal?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 06 March 2017, 04:04:48
How about the Caracal?

Guess what...

(That one's a tank)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 06 March 2017, 13:42:15
Fishing Cat?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_cat

Or possibly playing with names, Sea Lion?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CrazyGrasshopper on 06 March 2017, 14:06:36
I do not think that Sea Lion would fit a fast medium 'Mech.

By the way, how is it going with Built for War TRO?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 March 2017, 18:38:58
You could go with a new naming aesthetic.  Instead of something feline to denote a Spirit/Nova Cat origin, or something piscine to denote a Sea Fox mech... what about a name indicating a Protectorate origin? :)  Given the Protectorate is based from Marik, I suggest Aetos.  (Greek for Eagle)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CrazyGrasshopper on 06 March 2017, 19:47:57
You could go with a new naming aesthetic.  Instead of something feline to denote a Spirit/Nova Cat origin, or something piscine to denote a Sea Fox mech... what about a name indicating a Protectorate origin? :)  Given the Protectorate is based from Marik, I suggest Aetos.  (Greek for Eagle)

Protectorator?  :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 06 March 2017, 23:06:43
I do not think that Sea Lion would fit a fast medium 'Mech.

By the way, how is it going with Built for War TRO?

Slowly but surely. Trying to accumulate some more funds in the war chest at the moment.

You could go with a new naming aesthetic.  Instead of something feline to denote a Spirit/Nova Cat origin, or something piscine to denote a Sea Fox mech... what about a name indicating a Protectorate origin? :)  Given the Protectorate is based from Marik, I suggest Aetos.  (Greek for Eagle)

I like it, will put it on the list.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CrazyGrasshopper on 06 March 2017, 23:53:32
Trying to accumulate some more funds in the war chest at the moment.

You know, you could try to maintain a thread on this forum with the updates. I am not sure that your blog sees more traffic than this site.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 06 March 2017, 23:56:15
You know, you could try to maintain a thread on this forum with the updates. I am not sure that your blog sees more traffic than this site.

Not allowed to.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CrazyGrasshopper on 07 March 2017, 00:08:20
Not allowed to.

Oh, I see.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 07 March 2017, 12:45:07
I need a name for a Protectorate-built fast medium 'Mec. Figured y'all might have some good suggestions.

Sabrecat.  Sabretooth.  Sabreclaw.  Sabreshark.

The warship that bombed Edo/Turtle Bay was the CSJ Sabre Cat, indicating that maybe there's a smilodon-like relative of the nova cat back on the Clan Homeworlds called the sabre cat.  Maybe Nova Cat refugees brought some sabre cats with them to the Clan Protectorate and the new mech was named after this species.

Sabretooth is a little less Nova Cat-centric.  Although no real-world shark has ever had true sabre teeth, it could be a general reference to the sharpness of both feline and shark teeth.

Sabreclaw could be a lower tech variant for export to former Marik sub-states.  Could also refer to the Nova Cats in addition to the Marik eagle.

And Sabreshark would be an obvious bow to the Diamond Sharks.  Maybe there's an actual sabre shark species on the Homeworlds.

The Juliano assault mech is built on Angell II in the Protectorate.  I've homegrown full Clantech variants that use these names.  Would also fit a mobile medium.

FWIW...

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 09 March 2017, 17:25:07
The Mad Cat III  mech name joke i will continue with some MECH NAMES:

Corona Cat
Ghost Cat
Ghost Kitten
Madival Cat
Maniak Cat
Samurai Pizza Cat (a Joke  :D ;D )
Sun Cat
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 22 March 2017, 20:53:11
A little teaser from our fan TRO for my fellow Protectorate fans. Look closely!

Check out our blog (http://builtforwar.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/built-for-war-battletech-tro-by-fans_16.html) for more stuff. There's another Protectorate mech coming, among other things.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 22 March 2017, 21:00:02
i like it
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 02 April 2017, 05:39:24
The Mad Cat III  mech name joke i will continue with some MECH NAMES:

Corona Cat
Ghost Cat
Ghost Kitten
Madival Cat
Maniak Cat
Samurai Pizza Cat (a Joke  :D ;D )
Sun Cat

ohhh look at that, name one for me!!!

Anyone remember Bakeneko?  (Crazy Cat) 
GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 02 April 2017, 12:44:07
"Cat Monster" is probably what they were going for.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 05 April 2017, 12:29:27
bake = "Change, take the form of, monster"
baka = "Idiot"

Slight difference there. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GhostCat on 24 April 2017, 10:30:59
bake = "Change, take the form of, monster"
baka = "Idiot"

Slight difference there. :)

So you are saying "Bakeneko" is a shape changing cat such as a Were Tiger or Rakshasa. 

I rather like the "Demon Kitty" approach myself, though I can understand the attitude about charging into the middle of a Wolf Pack could be considered slightly insane if not actually suicidal.

GC
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 26 April 2017, 12:13:42
The bakeneko is a particular type of monster from Japanese folklore, actually. I was just giving the root of the words to show where the error was.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 12 September 2017, 16:36:57
given how little time has passed since they started doing that, i suspect it is just a temporary measure. shunting the refugees into their own formation makes it simplier to organize, and helps to avoid forcing the incoming people from having to choose allegiances blind.

i suspect the Spirit Cat leadership, and whatever Nova Cat leadership made it to the Protectorate so far, have been hashing out how to handle things. are the Spirit Cats a clan of their own or just the biggest Nova Cat fragment? what do you do with the Nova Cats that don't want to join the Spirit Cats officially? etc.
once the flow of refugees slows to a trickle, they'll officially integrate them into the Spirit Cats or reform the Nova Cats or whatever the outcome of those discussions decides.

It should be noted that Kev Rosse's goal was to save the Nova Cat Clan.  I think the Spirit Cats, once they are assured that they have done so, will be all too happy to drop the distinction.

The question is whether the Nova Cat survivors will be willing to acknowledge and give credit to the Spirit Cats for their survival, or consider to hold them separate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 September 2017, 19:42:48
 . . . consider FM3150 has some of the survivors escaping to join the Protectorate . . . how can they not?  The Spirit Cats will be the dominate culture unless the Foxes overshadow their influence with the Novas.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 12 September 2017, 22:15:28
i think that by the time the Protectorate came about, the Spirit Cats had established a fairly distinct identity separate from their Nova Cat origins. while i suspect that the Spirit Cats would accept any Nova Cat refugees that wanted to become Spirit Cats, i doubt that either would be willing to force anyone to amalgamate under a given title.. the Nova Cat refugees are too weak and small a population to be able to force anything (plus they are living on Spirit Cat charity), while i doubt the Spirit Cats really want to force anyone to conform to their views.. since IIRC it was differences of opinion on how the Nova cats were developing socially that created the Spirit Cat/Nova Cat split in the first place.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 September 2017, 17:52:53
I never said they will force them . . . but as the dominate culture its very likely they will eventually be assimilated into the Spirit Cat culture.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 September 2017, 18:20:26
The Spirit Cats are Spirit Cats for a reason though. They felt like the Nova Cats had separated from their past and followed a spirit quest so they wouldn't get annihilated.

I can't see them going back now. But that's not a bad thing. The Spirit Cats are just a doubling down of the Nova Cats flavor.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 04 August 2018, 16:21:42
 Any news about Clan Protectorate?)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 August 2018, 17:32:23
Protectorate continues to exist, playing a role in ongoing FWL issues.

Integral in the subjugation of Regulus, the Fox side has bought up all of ComStar's assets in FWL territory.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 04 August 2018, 17:40:19
Sabrecat.  Sabretooth.  Sabreclaw.  Sabreshark.

The warship that bombed Edo/Turtle Bay was the CSJ Sabre Cat, indicating that maybe there's a smilodon-like relative of the nova cat back on the Clan Homeworlds called the sabre cat.  Maybe Nova Cat refugees brought some sabre cats with them to the Clan Protectorate and the new mech was named after this species.

Sabretooth is a little less Nova Cat-centric.  Although no real-world shark has ever had true sabre teeth, it could be a general reference to the sharpness of both feline and shark teeth.

Sabreclaw could be a lower tech variant for export to former Marik sub-states.  Could also refer to the Nova Cats in addition to the Marik eagle.

And Sabreshark would be an obvious bow to the Diamond Sharks.  Maybe there's an actual sabre shark species on the Homeworlds.

The Juliano assault mech is built on Angell II in the Protectorate.  I've homegrown full Clantech variants that use these names.  Would also fit a mobile medium.

FWIW...

given it originated on a world in the FWL, perhaps they could name a new mech, fighter, or ship the Tabiranth.. it would fit the animal naming scheme of the Cat's.. but being an IS critter, would show a tie to the new FWL.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 14:37:47
Are we missing our Nova Cats? Shattered Fortress has an important situation for the Spirit Cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 07 August 2018, 03:43:44
I'm surprised that Riccard again in  in his FS9-M2 Firestarter. And has not yet received bloodname)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 09:06:23
Heck, that he is piloting a Firestarter!  He had a Shadow Hawk IIC with ATMs I think . . . and we know the Protectorate has access to all the goodies the Foxes can produce, or they build in their space . . . Juliano, Guillotine C or whatever . . .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 August 2018, 09:47:23
Well....

He needs a new mech now.

You're right that he was cruising in a Shadowhawk IIC.

Maybe he hasn't had time to set up the Nova Cat Blood Houses?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 10:01:06
Protectorate was set up in . . . late 30s?  Both the Nova Cats and Warden Wolves set theirs up on moving, so I do not think that is the case- for instance IIRC Path of Glory they had the house politics going but did not have all the shrines built.

Reason could be quite simple in all the upheaval . . . they may not have any sort of control of his Bloodhouse, or the limited number of legacies of his Bloodhouse they control are still alive.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 07 August 2018, 12:00:15
Due to the fractured nature of the DA and the lack of communications they may be struggling to set up events for Bloodrite Trials, Grand Kutreis (spelling the thing for Oathmasters), or a Eugenetics program at all
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 August 2018, 12:07:58
I am curious about the eugenics program..

But in, "To Ride the Chimera" Julietta remarks about how their infrastructure just suddenly arrived and was functional.

Also... they shouldn't have problems with communication because they're essentially all that's left of the Nova Cats.

Maybe Rikkard is being polite and seeing if more Nova Cats show up? But it's been eight or nine years since 3142 when the Nova Cats in the Draconis Combine were annihilated.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 12:58:04
Well, some bloodnames are easier to resolve than others . . .

Star Captain Victor West is killed by the Wolf Empire in a trial- his Conjurer lost its head in the latest Trial of Possession.

Because they know a West Bloodname is suddenly vacant, any with the West Bloodname in the Spirit Cats in the Protectorate get to nominate one unblooded for the Trial and whoever is the Bloodhouse Leader fills in the rest of the field- supposing they have 32 warriors in the ranks able to compete.  If not?  IMO the warriors nominated by current Bloodnamed would get a first round bye.  No West Bloodnamed among the Spirit Cats?  Rikkard as the leader would be Oathmaster and standing in for the Bloodhouse Leader, would fill the field . . . unless there was not enough to really make a go- after all, do you want to give a bloodname to someone out of a field of 3 candidates?  If that were the case, it may go dormant waiting for sibkos to come of age and experience combat.

Spirit Cat bloodhouses are going to have some problems unless they plan to perform some Trials of Propagation in about 15 years, or declare claims over names vacated by the Combine's extermination.  The reason I say this is they have already been forced into ever narrowing options . . . what they had claim to was the Bloodnames of those who went with Delta Galaxy into the Republic- and some of those names could have been challenged for by regular Nova Cats, we do not know- then we know not all the Spirit Cat forces made it to the Protectorate.  Kev Rosse died in the Republic and so did other Spirit Cat units, either from fighting against the RAF, other splinter groups or Houses.  So the reason Rikkard may not have a bloodname is that all the Spirit Cat holders either died in the chaos of the Fortress being established, or was behind the Fortress wall when it went up . . . and they would have no way of reliably getting information about the name being vacated.  IMO its a real question of did Rikkard's Spirit Cats even get any genetic legacies from their enclaves in the Republic. 

Additionally, the first Spirit Cat sibkos should be about 10 y/o and if they had the legacies available setting up the sibko system would be easy with their powerful allies.  I wonder if the Foxes also took possession of the Nova Cat genetic repositories/legacies when the Dracs went stomping.  They seemed to have a agreement standing by for the Nova Cat property.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Easy on 07 August 2018, 15:37:31
cleanup
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 12 August 2018, 16:03:16
Read Shattered Fortress, good to see Clan Protectorate is making itself useful to the FWL.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 13 August 2018, 14:08:44
Captain! Glad to see you back.

Yeah! They got to fight!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: HunterGratzner on 30 August 2018, 12:21:06
Are there any estimates of Nova Cat survivors or Spirit Cat offshoots that haven't rallied to the Clan Protectorate? Or are the Cats outside of the Protectorate 99% dead?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 30 August 2018, 12:27:14
There are still survivors in Combine space, but they've been sterilized and dispersed among the lower classes. No telling their numbers, but in a couple generations it'll be Zero.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 30 August 2018, 12:31:30
Kisho's survivors are also theoretically out there, but for all intents and purposes, Spirit/Nova Cats are clustered in the Clan Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 August 2018, 12:40:24
Well . . . its still possible there are Spirit Cat enclaves in the Republic that were behind the Fortress, but IIRC most of their known enclaves were outside.  One of the Paladins was a Drummond IIRC, she was from the Spirit Cats and likely there were others that were in the RAF that did not join Kev Rosse . . . but you may as well NOT call them Spirit Cats b/c they decided their loyalty was to the Republic.

Were there armed Spirit Cats in the Republic when the wall went up?  Possibly, but Levin and later Stone stomped on anyone who was armed that was not RAF- you had three choices; disarm, join, or die.  The first is not likely for a Clan warrior, join?  well in a Trial they could be taken as isorla/abathka so that is possible . . . but dying is most likely- trust being zilch.

So its possible that they exist and even have sibkos in operation- but the RAF scooped up all the war material.  Problem would be . . . how do they know the Protectorate exists?  and how does the Protectorate know they exist to send out invitations?

Finally, there COULD be Spirit Cat POWs among the Capellans or abathka among the FedSuns.  Good luck on gaining any strength from either source however for the expected cultural reasons.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 30 August 2018, 13:51:44
What are the Clan Protectorate's prospects when it comes to carrying on Nova Cat breeding programs?  Seems like the Combine pretty much carried out a trial of annihalation against their sibkos and scientists.  I can imagine they could probably purchase the hardware from the Sea Foxes but generations but do they have any of the raw materials to start up their program?  Even their leader isn't bloodnamed IIRC.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 August 2018, 14:29:35
We have discussed why he may not be bloodnamed . . .

The Spirit Cat enclaves in the Republic had their own breeding program, but we again go back to a question of how many of them left to meet Rikkard before he invaded Marik.  Were any enclaves with legacies trapped behind the Fortress walls?

As the Sea Foxes were the ones who sorted through the Nova Cat assets, it is possible they picked up the legacies if they were not destroyed in the fighting- or by the Nova Cats themselves.  But that is a different Khanate than the one that supports the Protectorate so who knows if it is available- or was thought valuable at the time by the Foxes.  I THINK it may since Khalasa wants one of his subordinates to examine Spirit Cats to see if they can pin down how they are able to make predictions.

Other sources for legacies are more open to interpretation . . . does the Sharks, Ravens or Bears view the Nova Cats as Clan enough they would trial for legacies?  The Warden Wolves were already trading with them seeing the Nova Cats a kindred spirits IMO, it remains to be seen if they had exchanged any legacies to keep the gene-pools varied.  We know the Wardens created their own bloodnames (Brahe) and had Kell to expand so they were not short on genetic diversity.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: VensersRevenge on 25 September 2018, 19:15:57
Hello all,
I am normally a Davion fan, but I have always liked the Nova Cats and Sharkfoxes, so the Protectorate has interested me. Which Dark Age novels focus on the founding of the Protectorate, and what 'Mechs do you think the Republican Nova Cats are using now?
Venser
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 25 September 2018, 19:51:50
Hello all,
I am normally a Davion fan, but I have always liked the Nova Cats and Sharkfoxes, so the Protectorate has interested me. Which Dark Age novels focus on the founding of the Protectorate, and what 'Mechs do you think the Republican Nova Cats are using now?
Venser

'Pandora's Gambit', 'To Ride the Chimera' and 'A Bonfire of Worlds' are the best novels to look at.

Ummm... Republican Nova Cats are, well, no more really. Protectorate Cats will be using a mix of Republic, Sharkfox, and FWL gear.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: VensersRevenge on 25 September 2018, 20:00:32
Thanks, and I meant the First Nova Cat Provisionals. Would hey have a considerably different TOE? And do we know if late Nova Cat designs like the Cave Lion and Wendigo are still accessible to the Cats?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 25 September 2018, 20:06:44
The Foxes make the Cave Lion, so it should be easy to acquire. The Wendigo, not so much.

The entire Protectorate is pretty much scrounging for gear at the moment, so they'll take whatever they can get.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: VensersRevenge on 25 September 2018, 20:32:38
Well, it's good that Kev Rosse's 'Mech is still available to his followers. It's too bad that the Combine gets Nova Cat 'Mechs through genocide. Hopefully one day the Spirit Cats will get to avenge the Nova Cats
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 September 2018, 21:59:25
Ummm... Republican Nova Cats are, well, no more really.

Actually, all we know is that the Spirit Cats outside the Fortress are either disarmed/stranded or civilian enclaves on worlds retaken by the surrounding Houses.  Inside the Fortress?  Well they are disarmed as a separate group BUT they likely still have enclaves and Spirit Cat warriors were part of the RAF- heck one is a Paladin IIRC.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 September 2018, 10:30:24
The Foxes make the Cave Lion, so it should be easy to acquire. The Wendigo, not so much.

The entire Protectorate is pretty much scrounging for gear at the moment, so they'll take whatever they can get.

Honestly up in the air. Clan Sea Fox was able to take a lot of clan equipment from Irece. They have a ton of Wendigo's to trade. But they also theoretically could be building them. Hard to tell since that event happened so recently in the timeline.

Wendigo's are on the Spirit Cat RAT either way though because it's at the very top of the Free Worlds League RAT.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 September 2018, 10:45:36
Check out Bridget Hawkers entry in the Draconis Combine TRO's Wendigo notable pilots section.

The Draconis Combine was also trading some avalanches so it's entirely possible that they were trading wendigo's after the facilities moved. Hard to say. Seems more likely that the Sea Foxes are doing it though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 29 September 2018, 10:55:43
The impression I got from that TRO writeup was that the Combine sold the Foxes the entire manufacturing infrastructure for the Wendigo, not just individual mechs/production runs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 September 2018, 16:05:58
The impression I got from that TRO writeup was that the Combine sold the Foxes the entire manufacturing infrastructure for the Wendigo, not just individual mechs/production runs.

That's how I was reading it too.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 23 October 2018, 18:31:21
It's too bad that the Combine gets Nova Cat 'Mechs through genocide.
Kuria with more Clan Mechs "scary" - i hope the Ghost Bears shoot them to dust, so Kurita have no fun with it!

Hopefully one day the Spirit Cats will get to avenge the Nova Cats
Spirit Cats take revenge on Kurita would be funny

@ All i don't Understand the Sea Fox in all this
Them Presence in this Potectorate ist more a food hold in the door to sell some mechs to the potectorate!
Political Marik Factions and the 2 Clan Factions voting in a council and fight some Trails - would be a interesting change in Marik and brings fresh Wind.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2018, 22:28:22
Did you not read, "To Ride the Chimera" ?

The Clan Protectorate is the Clan Protectorate because they needed Sea Fox forces to take the world of Marik.

We're thick as thieves now.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 February 2019, 03:54:00
It seems mechs and other equipment that were hinted at in TRO3145/50 are getting more concrete descriptions (Tempest 4M, Battlemaster 6M, Longinus C, Orion C, and 2 others I cannot remember are in topics) . . . so I want to bump this to encourage the Clan ERLL Juliano version to drop.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 11 March 2019, 19:17:24
Just read new Forever faithful novel.  Part of book about Nova cats and their role in Fidelis creation . Recomended for all NC  fans.
Some spoilers
We see Severen Leroux and Santin West
We see Great Refusial as Nova Cat POW  ;D
Wife of Poul Moon ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 17 March 2019, 07:21:15
Just read new Forever faithful novel.  Part of book about Nova cats and their role in Fidelis creation . Recomended for all NC  fans.
Some spoilers
We see Severen Leroux and Santin West
We see Great Refusial as Nova Cat POW  ;D
Wife of Poul Moon ;D


My girlfriend bought me it so on my to read soon list
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: HunterGratzner on 11 May 2019, 15:07:30
I have a question about Omicron Cluster. Going by the MWDA Dossiers, Era Digest Dark Age, etc, it was a Spirit Cat formation.

Then FM 3145 says "Formerly attached to Spina Khanate’s Delta Aimag, the founders of Omicron Cluster chose to remain as ground troops for the Clan Protectorate."

So is the Clan Protectorate's Omicron Cluster a new formation of Sea Fox troops from Delta Aimag and the original Spirit Cat Omicron Cluster was lost, or is it a mistake in the FM?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 May 2019, 16:13:04
Rikkard did not end up with many troops . . . and the Protectorate is not the Spirit Cats of Kev Rosse, so yeah its a different formation.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Doy on 07 December 2019, 15:02:30
i do not noticed that!

i was only worrying over the Cluster with the Nova Cats

and my main Cluster to play Clan Spirit Cats ist Purifier Cluster
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 08 December 2019, 11:46:50
They still use the same emblem though. So it's just a reformed formation with Sea Foxes in it now.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: James Bedford on 27 June 2020, 09:41:34
Seyla fellow Spirit Cats, Sea Foxes, and Nova Cats.  It is I, Captain of C-21 with a new name.  So something happened and my email tied in with this website broke (I had tried to update it to another email, the system recognized that as my email, but refused to send anything to do it, and my original email was apparently deleted for inactivity, as I only use my old college email now), and for two months I tried to recover my old account (CaptainofC-21), but the system refused to send me an email (counting 10 attempts).  No one in the BattleTech groups on facebook would help me contact a mod to sort out the mess, so I broke down and made a new account (That process is another long story).  So I am back and happy to post about the Spirit Cats.

So "Forever Faithful" was a pretty good novel, lot of Nova Cat stuff in it. What are people's predictions on what Clan Spirit and Clan Sea Fox will do when the IlClan is founded, as it seems to be hinted at In recent publications.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 June 2020, 09:55:10
Did you read Shattered Fortress?  You might also go to the announcements page, it has a 'State of the Game' post for early June- lots of stuff in that . . . oh, and the ilClan Recognition Guides are authored by the Foxes- sort of like a Sears catalog of mechs that can be sold.  Which means IMO it would be very easy for them to appear in the Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: James Bedford on 27 June 2020, 10:57:19
Did you read Shattered Fortress?  You might also go to the announcements page, it has a 'State of the Game' post for early June- lots of stuff in that . . . oh, and the ilClan Recognition Guides are authored by the Foxes- sort of like a Sears catalog of mechs that can be sold.  Which means IMO it would be very easy for them to appear in the Protectorate.

I did, and I have read everything that has come out recently except the Recognition Guides.  Outside of the Clan Protectorate fighting the Regulans, we do not have much more info on what they will do in the IlClan era.  I will look at the announcements as you suggested though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Guardian11 on 28 June 2020, 16:07:36
In FM3145 under the FWL section it's stated that the Captain-General tasked the Protectorate with acquiring access to Mech production from the factories taken by the Wolf Empire. Their Plan A was to send Sea Fox Merchants to negotiate a trade deal with the Wolf Empire for a percentage of their production. Plan B was to send a force of Spirit Cats to Trial for a percentage of the Wolf Empire's military production. Considering the entry in TRO3145 for the R10 ICV mentions that the Wolves are exporting it throughout the IS, and that the Recognition Guide mentions Wolf Empire Goliath Cs are being sold by the Foxes to the IS it seems likely that the Sea Foxes of the Clan Protectorate were successful in making a deal with the Wolves. The novella Divided We Fall also mentions the Wolves using a command circuit established by the Sea Foxes to allow them to get the Wolf's Dragoons to Terra in time to fight the Falcons, so it seems the Wolves have the money to be able to get the Foxes to set up a command circuit, and friendly enough relations between the 2 Clans that a Sea Fox command circuit isn't exorbitantly expensive.

Also, the introduction to the Recognition Guide written by the Sea Foxes seems to indicate that the Sea Fox perspective on the IlClan conflict is to sell weapons to both sides and position themselves so that whoever wins the Sea Foxes will still benefit by selling their goods to winner. It's entirely likely that the Sea Foxes are hedging their bets and walking a fine line of providing both the Wolves and the Falcons support without favoring one over the other, but still enough support to make them indispensable to whoever becomes IlClan. It's likely the IlClan will need all the military production they can get in the aftermath of the fight for IlClan, so the Foxes will likely be in a good position with the IlClan afterwards.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 June 2020, 21:00:23
Its not how Malvina works . . .

Considering they are helping the Crusader Wolves shift troops around, letting emissaries travel on Fox JS circuits, and selling weapon systems and complete units to the Wolves I think its a clear interest.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 28 June 2020, 21:11:02
No doubt about it.  The Sea Foxes have a clear interest in the Wolves.  Not just for them to become the IlClan,  but more importantly for them to stop Malvina. 

That's good business.  Because Malvina will remember the Sea Fox's help of her enemies, and will not take kindly to it.  She is bad for business in the long run, even if her clan buys our goods on occasion.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 03 August 2020, 03:26:24
A cool Clan Protectorate mention in TRO Golden Century under the reproduced Lupus OmniMech some fighting on Marik in 3147 and a notable warrior
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 03 August 2020, 12:04:34
A cool Clan Protectorate mention in TRO Golden Century under the reproduced Lupus OmniMech some fighting on Marik in 3147 and a notable warrior

Whith Nostra bloodname)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 August 2020, 12:09:00
Well, the Spirit Cats had some Nostras on the roster . . . really the question is, did they in the 10+ years on Marik start a Trial of Propagation?  Or declare all the holders of what were Spirit Cat bloodnames that were in the Republic 'vacant' when they never showed up?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: James Bedford on 03 August 2020, 13:16:35
What the named Nostra pilot?  Hopefully it was Liz.

By 3151 Clan Spirit Cat has been on Marik for 14 years.   They have rebuilt to 6 Clusters (1 Provisional) at least, they probably have a generation of sibkos close to graduation.  I am not sure why TPTB have kept Rikkard Nova Cat and his Clan in stasis, with regards to bloodnames and the like.

My best guess is that TPTB are waiting to have Kisho show up, so Rikkard and Marik can officially merge their two halves (Nova Cat and Spirit Cat) into a Clan, and start all the bloodname stuff with a clean slate (Declaring all holders not in Clan Protectorate space to be dead, starting bloodright trials, etc.).

Perhaps this will get resolved once the IlClan is declared and Clan Wolf and the Republic merge.  There are STILL Nova Cats alive in Fortress Republic, at the very least Paladin Tyrina Drummond is there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 August 2020, 14:04:57
Star Captain Tokala Nostra, a Nova Cat refugee it seems . . he was given a Lupus Omni as his mech and commands a Shiva Keshik Trinary that had quite a few Lupus Primes- and probably others.  It was enough Primes to 'annihilated an entire Hussar medium lance' . . .

It was part of the battle when Rikard tried to commit suicide from his old Firestarter.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: James Bedford on 03 August 2020, 18:06:18
So more refugees, that is cool too.

Also, I asked Blaine Lee Pardoe if Tyrina Drummond being named-dropped in Rock of the Republic was just needing a random Paladin or if it was a sign of things to come, his response;

"Tyrina will be back"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 03 August 2020, 19:25:32
What the named Nostra pilot?  Hopefully it was Liz.

By 3151 Clan Spirit Cat has been on Marik for 14 years.   They have rebuilt to 6 Clusters (1 Provisional) at least, they probably have a generation of sibkos close to graduation.  I am not sure why TPTB have kept Rikkard Nova Cat and his Clan in stasis, with regards to bloodnames and the like.

I feel like this is more simply explained by the fairly broad brush strokes over the Clan Protectorate as a whole, and not some deliberate push on TPTB's part to keep things from moving forward.  Would it really matter, one way or another, to Inner Sphere politics or events if the Spirit Cats were holding Trials of Bloodright?  No, not really.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 03 August 2020, 22:27:26
I feel like this is more simply explained by the fairly broad brush strokes over the Clan Protectorate as a whole, and not some deliberate push on TPTB's part to keep things from moving forward.  Would it really matter, one way or another, to Inner Sphere politics or events if the Spirit Cats were holding Trials of Bloodright?  No, not really.

One of the good things about the Jihad style books IMO was their snippets of news from across the Inner Sphere

I found the style infuriating initially but looking back on it it worked great for that conflict

Given the pony express nature of communication for the current era and the novels it would work well now to i think to fill in the gaps.  Though I know they were some undertaking themselves
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: James Bedford on 04 August 2020, 16:53:31
Just throwing this out there, but I recently compiled all the old Dark Age fiction stories that were on the now-defunct Wizkids website in one handy-dandy PDF.  I post in this thread about it because several of these short stories feature Spirit Cat characters.  When I say short however, I mean what I say, some of them are only a few pages at most.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70451.msg1638415#new
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 02 September 2020, 09:50:50
Do we know Clan Protectorate paint schemes? I'd assume Spirit Cat units retain theirs but others?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 September 2020, 21:02:12
I don't think we do yet. Hopefully they will bring back some old Nova Cat ones.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 03 September 2020, 21:05:46
I don't think we do yet. Hopefully they will bring back some old Nova Cat ones.

Nova Cat Provisionals seems a good spot for some of the old Nova Cat paintjobs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 03 September 2020, 21:25:28
i would assume at the moment that each clan within the protectorate still uses its own style. and i wouldn't be surprised if the locally raised units don't use some variation on the old FWL militia schemes with clan style markings.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 03 September 2020, 22:28:13
Marik Militia, eh? There's something attractive about the idea of painting Kickstarter Clan 'Mechs in Marik Militia colors.
But i think i'll probably lean toward camo, because that's safe and can represent just about anyone. And then there's that the Nova Cats tended to use camo for most part...
Probably not doing Spirit Cat colors, some units and plans i have call for enough white and gray already.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Deadborder on 04 September 2020, 01:17:56
My headcannon is that the Nova Cat Provisionals use the MWDA Nova Cat scheme, but I've got no actual backing for it
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 September 2020, 08:34:56
We can hope. I really like the MWDA Nova Cat color scheme. It's a bit of a shame we dont get to see it more.

(For those that havent see it: White primary color, charcoal grey secondary-usually on weapon pods,  joints and feet, Gold Cockpits, and the occasional use of red and black to pick out a detail. )
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 September 2020, 09:48:45
I'm glad we are getting more Nova Cat players over here.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 September 2020, 10:40:12
SOO . . . with Rikkard Nova Cat's Firestarter being wreckage (he reverts to that but for some reason Jasek does not have his Templar III . . . ) what do you think the chances are he will be a Nova Cat Omni's notable pilot?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 September 2020, 11:16:19
It would be nice if the top cat stopped piloting a light mech...

But I'd also love to see them getting Supernova's, Nova Cats, Cave Lions and Sphinxes up and running again.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 September 2020, 12:21:19
Well, as pointed out on the RecGuide thread- every mech that got new art got some sort of production nod . . . and the Nova Cat is getting new art.

Guess that means the Falcons will be getting the Gyr back.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 05 September 2020, 04:35:41
SOO . . . with Rikkard Nova Cat's Firestarter being wreckage (he reverts to that but for some reason Jasek does not have his Templar III . . . ) what do you think the chances are he will be a Nova Cat Omni's notable pilot?

He piloted Shadow hawk IIc4 in Pandora gambit novel.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 September 2020, 20:23:15
Yup, and got put back in a Firestarter for Shattered Fortress . . . for some reason.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 08 September 2020, 01:26:00
perhaps he just prefers firestarters? presumably after his old one was destroyed he used whatever spare mech was available, but he'd be able to put in first dibs on whatever new requisitions the clan obtained.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 September 2020, 04:06:43
You would think that as the Protectorates leader he'd want something a bit better though.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 08 September 2020, 07:39:21
You would think that as the Protectorates leader he'd want something a bit better though.

Like a... Nova Cat  ;) or Savage Wolf since they're neighbours
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 September 2020, 09:27:37
His MWDA mech was a Firestarter- from when they were scrambling for equipment, so it was better than the AgroMechs others got!  Then for the invasion of Marik, he was using a Shadow Hawk IIC 4 (ATMS) . . . the whole way through the book.  AFAIK, we never heard what happened to the Firestarter but its possible the Shadow Hawk was bought off the Foxes since it seems he was already involved with them before they played taxi.  IIRC, the action on Marik was 6-8 years after he was spotted by Kuritan intel piloting that Firestarter in the aftermath of the Blackout.  We also do not know when he switched either.

But like the 'Julian & Jasek pilot Templars' when they had Templar IIIs and the Cynthi/Malvina problems springing from Shattered Fortress and associated fiction, I put it down to continuity fact checking problems.

While I hope Rikkard gets something a bit more durable than a Firestarter going forward, it could be that he prefers that 6/9/6 movement profile . . . which really means on the upper end he could end up with a Linebacker the Foxes acquired down to Griffin C, Hellhound or even a new Vapor Eagle.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 September 2020, 14:32:38
Wasn't the Shadow Hawk IIC 4 a Nova Cat design to start with?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 08 September 2020, 16:34:13
You would think that as the Protectorates leader he'd want something a bit better though.

Narrative and gameplay disconnect.  An elite pilot isn't going to be as easy to hit as a green one, but BattleTech doesn't actually represent that at all without Evasion rules that are not great ways to represent it.

It's something of a fundamental disconnect between what I'd consider real life and the game: in the game, a green pilot and an elite pilot can perform exactly the same things, and there's no actual difference between the green pilot rolling 10+s all day and the elite pilot rolling 6s.  In "real life", I'd expect an elite pilot to know better when to cut this corner, how their machine is going to react to this surface, where they can find a blind spot for a second, and all around wring better performance out of their equipment.  That's simply not represented.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 September 2020, 16:42:39
Yeah, actually the fiction where he takes that Shadow Hawk IIC up against a Legionnaire drives that point home b/c he times the speed changes to throw off hits and performs a move that pushes his machine to the edge where it can exploit a weakness of the mech/pilot he is facing.

But still . . . it was a Firestarter . . . even our known light mech Khans piloted things that could do better- Aletha with the Fire Moths and Conner Rood with the Kit Fox though I thought he got something heavier later.

Which is why I suggested 6/9/6 movement profile . . . and a Vapor Eagle.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wantec on 09 September 2020, 06:14:06
Yeah, actually the fiction where he takes that Shadow Hawk IIC up against a Legionnaire drives that point home b/c he times the speed changes to throw off hits and performs a move that pushes his machine to the edge where it can exploit a weakness of the mech/pilot he is facing.

But still . . . it was a Firestarter . . . even our known light mech Khans piloted things that could do better- Aletha with the Fire Moths and Conner Rood with the Kit Fox though I thought he got something heavier later.

Which is why I suggested 6/9/6 movement profile . . . and a Vapor Eagle.
Connor Rood later got a Linebacker that had been taken as salvage at some point. Being a proper Ice Hellion warrior he was disgusted at the sheer tonnage of his new 'Mech, the only saving grace was that it matched his old Kit Fox's speed.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 09 September 2020, 07:21:12
Top Gear displays that pretty well in real life Scotty with their test track. They put some amazing drivers on the track but the F1 drivers just pulverize them.

You also see it in mechwarrior online with tactical decisions and cover but in battletech the player is the one primarily responsible for running the numbers up.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 September 2020, 07:30:50
Hoping the Nova Cat returns home instead of belonging to the DC.

Would be really nice to get a lot of the non-avalanche mechs. Wendigo's are good. No ball lechs.

Cave Lions would be a nice return. I guess Tiburon Khanate knows how to build it.

Sphinx and Supernova would be good too.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CJC070 on 19 September 2020, 09:19:49
Hoping the Nova Cat returns home instead of belonging to the DC.

Would be really nice to get a lot of the non-avalanche mechs. Wendigo's are good. No ball lechs.

Cave Lions would be a nice return. I guess Tiburon Khanate knows how to build it.

Sphinx and Supernova would be good too.

Me thinks the DC burned all the bridges between them and the Nova Cats.  Hopefully they stay alive and strong in the iClan era.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 September 2020, 09:22:18
Yeah but a lot of their stuff was Tiburon khanate (should have been Fox khanate, but who knows.) Backed. Not supernova's. But theoretically they could set up production on Marik.

What is being built on Marik?

Edit: Planetlifters and Cheetahs apparently.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Foxx Ital on 19 September 2020, 11:27:34
Hoping the Nova Cat returns home instead of belonging to the DC.

Would be really nice to get a lot of the non-avalanche mechs. Wendigo's are good. No ball lechs.

Cave Lions would be a nice return. I guess Tiburon Khanate knows how to build it.

Sphinx and Supernova would be good too.

  SPHINX!!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 September 2020, 11:40:50
A Cave Lion with Ferro-Lam instead of Reflec . . . it is interesting considering by initial description it was planned like a Clan Black Knight.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 20 September 2020, 13:57:14
Sphinxs would be nice, for sure. Maybe dust off the plans to make it a full Omni.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 26 October 2020, 14:29:51
Potential some future hints in Childrens of Kerensky:

Alarick said that as ilkhan he will be able to cancel Nova cat abjuration and wiling avenge their genoside
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 27 October 2020, 09:53:43
SIGN ME UP!! Do you need the soul of my first born? Do I sign in blood? What?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 28 November 2020, 07:39:00
Another potential hints from new Tokayyid book:
Instead, Leroux’s decisions led to the ultimate downfall of the Nova Cats of old" p.99
 "of old"...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 28 November 2020, 13:34:48
Another potential hints from new Tokayyid book:
Instead, Leroux’s decisions led to the ultimate downfall of the Nova Cats of old" p.99
 "of old"...

Well there are still the Spirit Cats and those Noca Cats that somehow managed to migrate to the clan protectorate. who lnows maybe they finally agreed to merge into a NEW Clan Nova Cat maybe making also the abjuration null and void because they are a "new" clan. Just like Vlad Ward dismissed the accusation of genocide when he reformed Clan wolf in 3057
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 28 November 2020, 21:04:15
 Not only Clan Protectorate. I think Kisho and his band too find their safe place . It is simple - use world that allready was safe heaven for another clan . Welcome to Wayside 5 Kisho ;)) .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 29 November 2020, 07:13:35
It would be interesting if in the ilClan era Alaric reversed the abjurnment creating a Nova Cat Galaxy specifically to use against the Combine.

That way the Protectorate isn't steamroller and becomes part of the ilClan which makes sense from the Wolf and Cat perspective

This unit is then joined by Kisho and co which sees the Nova Cats reborn still subservient to the ilClan but also its own entity
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 05 December 2020, 03:13:07
 First nova cat's origins mech confirmed built in Clan Protectorate (Asellus Australis Alpha) and it is ... Shadow cat ;)

PS Kisho Nova Cat in Ilclan section of  Battletech: legends book ;)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 07 December 2020, 03:37:39
Another notable pilot in the Valkyrie write up in Rec Guide 9 - Star Captain Maren Averitt - cool pilot would make an interesting book
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 December 2020, 10:45:51
Another notable pilot in the Valkyrie write up in Rec Guide 9 - Star Captain Maren Averitt - cool pilot would make an interesting book

 You mean the Battletech version of Xenophon?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 07 December 2020, 19:42:25
You mean the Battletech version of Xenophon?

When it comes to saving the last bits of the Clan I'll take it
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 16 December 2020, 08:29:08
What happened to the Cats merchant fleet? In 3067 (FM:update) they have:
Lola III-class SLS Growler, SLS Ranger and
SLS Hunter, and twelve Carrack-class ships: SLS Far Star, SLS
Enlightened Path, SLS Nebula, SLS Glory Road, SLS Blessed
Vision, SLS Pathfinder, SLS Guiding Vision, SLS Bright Star and
SLS Faithful Rite
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 16 December 2020, 16:26:30
It got murdered in the Jihad many by "rogue" Combine units or traded to Sea Foxes for resources to build new factories during and after Jihad
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 16 December 2020, 17:00:34
Dont find mention about this :'(
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 16 December 2020, 17:17:22
Jihad: Final Reckoning should have mentioned it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 16 December 2020, 17:26:18
Dont find mention about this :'(

In the various jihad books there's mentions of ship x y and z dying.  Probably not all of them but by the end of the Jihad the surviving Nova Cat ships were Republic ones as the Khan's sent the whole navy after wiping out most of the bear fleet in the Trial for the Leviathan II the bears were building honestly not a great move as it left the Cats at home vulnerable to attack

In I think the original pheonix project book it mentioned novs cats trading ships for factories
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 16 December 2020, 17:53:06
In the various jihad books there's mentions of ship x y and z dying.  Probably not all of them but by the end of the Jihad the surviving Nova Cat ships were Republic ones as the Khan's sent the whole navy after wiping out most of the bear fleet in the Trial for the Leviathan II the bears were building honestly not a great move as it left the Cats at home vulnerable to attack

It is about warships fleet , not merchant )
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 18 December 2020, 15:23:59
from Baatletech: Legends

Kisho escape wasnt last minute desision. He took whith him complete scientific and technical database, along with samples of entire Bloodname genetic legacy and thousands of Nova Cats
 Petr Kalasa participate in battle on Marik in 3147 and lost his Tiburon here
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 18 December 2020, 18:06:17
from Baatletech: Legends

Kisho escape wasnt last minute desision. He took whith him complete scientific and technical database, along with samples of entire Bloodname genetic legacy and thousands of Nova Cats
 Petr Kalasa participate in battle on Marik in 3147 and lost his Tiburon here


I haven't read it yet but

 :)

This is my reaction to that post

 :)

And will remain it
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 06 January 2021, 12:25:56
 Find this   https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/xtro-comstar-fm-3085-and-rs-prototypes/msg346073/#msg346073 (about merchant fleet) :
Quote
It is not a WarShip per say, so it is not included in the rolls of offensive weapons. Same with the Clan Merchant Carracks, they were removed because they should never had been included in the first place. But Clan Nova Cat does have some merchant Carracks left, even if they have no proper WarShips.
With regards, Øystein
— Øystein Tvedten, BattleTech Line Developer, 13 Jan 2012
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfgar on 17 January 2021, 12:34:51
frag i forgot i had an account here, hows it been guys

as to on subject, i was writing a story, (need to get back to it) that had the CP send a merc unit to pull all they could off of Irece before the DC struck.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 30 January 2021, 05:00:51
 Huntsman now build in clan protectorate. Factory - Clan Protectorate Arms
(Asellus Australis).

 Waiting for Nova cat and supernova :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 30 January 2021, 12:50:27
The Clan Protectorate might have the best stable of Medium Mechs in the setting right now between active production/access to the Shadow Cat, Huntsman, and Mad Cat III.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 30 January 2021, 13:03:57
A pity MUL doesn't have separate list for the Clan Protectorate. Feels like their available stuff is a bit distinct from Nova Cats, Sea Foxes and the Free Worlds League.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 30 January 2021, 14:26:14
      I wonder what the clan protectorate millitary force looks like in 3151.  They had 6 years of peace (exept battle for Marik and some trials whith clan wolf) , new mech factory and many refugeеs from the colapsing republic.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 30 January 2021, 19:05:54
Well, we can say definitively that they have access to brand new, either locally manufactured or Sea Fox-produced trade:

Tiburon (Omicron Cluster, Sea Fox exclusive otherwise)
Shadow Cat (locally produced)
Mongrel  (Sea Fox produced)
Huntsman (locally produced)
Mad Cat III (Sea Fox produced)
Shadow Hawk 7H (FWL produced)
Rifleman (FWL produced)
Vulture Mk IV (Sea Fox produced)
Anzu (FWL produced)
Carronade (FWL produced)
Mad Cat Mk IV (Sea Fox produced)
Mad Cat Mk II (Sea Fox produced)
Juliano (FWL produced)

And that's just stuff off the top of my head that's either produced in a factory within the Protectorate, or with close enough ties that the Protectorate leadership can make a casual phone call to set up lunch with the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 January 2021, 19:59:58
Pretty sure the world the Havoc was produced on ended up part of the Protectorate, so it and the Gambit would be under their aegis.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 30 January 2021, 20:04:45
Sarna says that's the case, so definitely add those two to the list.  For some reason I always think of the Gambit as a primarily mercenary design.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 January 2021, 22:30:27
I think the MWDA dossier says it was sold off, but we have no clue what happens once the Foxes take control of the world- after all part of the agreement for the Protectorate was the Foxes b/c your export experts.

I have really wanted to see what we can get in those missing 4 or 5 models of the Havoc- especially if one is mixed tech.  Or just a Clan weapon version- cERMLs on the current version we have would be deadly.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 30 January 2021, 23:34:36
+ Lupus (Marik factory)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Guardian11 on 31 January 2021, 18:03:19
The RAT in FM3145 under the FWL sub-state section has the following Mechs listed for the Clan Protectorate, most of which are produced by the Sea Foxes. Kong Interstellar on Connaught is building the Black Knight with Sea Fox provided Clan-tech.
Crimson Hawk 
Koshi Standard 
Black Hawk Standard
Mad Cat III
Vulture Mk IV
BLK-NT-5H Black Knight
Warhammer IIC 4
Mad Cat Mk. II 2
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 01 February 2021, 12:25:18
I wouldnt mind if the Protectorate got it's hands on the Jenner IIC. Some nice poetry there if they eventually end up fighting the DC directly.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 February 2021, 12:38:47
None of the Jenner IICs really duplicate what the Jenner did- except the speed.  Your Havoc is basically a new Jenner, and IF the Foxes started pumping out a upgraded version- Clan ERMLs and missiles- it would be superior IMO to a Jenner IIC.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 01 February 2021, 13:12:16
I wouldnt mind if the Protectorate got it's hands on the Jenner IIC. Some nice poetry there if they eventually end up fighting the DC directly.
Really wish Jenner IIC had gotten Kickstarter treatment...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 01 February 2021, 14:31:21
Would Clanners in the Clan Protectorate use the Quasimodo?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 02 February 2021, 10:50:39
None of the Jenner IICs really duplicate what the Jenner did- except the speed.  Your Havoc is basically a new Jenner, and IF the Foxes started pumping out a upgraded version- Clan ERMLs and missiles- it would be superior IMO to a Jenner IIC.
The Jenner IIC has history with the Nova Cat side of things and plays to elements of Clan humor. Also the Havoc is UGLY.  :P  Although since the Diamond Sharks grabbed the Cizin, it might not be as big a concern. That's essentially a hovertank version of the Jenner as is.

I suspect what I'd really want is a Owens IIC though. Something to give some flexibility to the various light designs out there. We could call it the Lewis. :D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 02 February 2021, 11:32:21
Also the Havoc is UGLY.  :P
Thank you. It is unusably ugly.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 February 2021, 12:33:29
The Jenner IIC has history with the Nova Cat side of things and plays to elements of Clan humor. Also the Havoc is UGLY.  :P  Although since the Diamond Sharks grabbed the Cizin, it might not be as big a concern. That's essentially a hovertank version of the Jenner as is.

I suspect what I'd really want is a Owens IIC though. Something to give some flexibility to the various light designs out there. We could call it the Lewis. :D

Thank you. It is unusably ugly.

What??!  The Gambit, sure . . . the Havoc has some nice lines, and being 8/12/5 w/ 4 ERML & SRM4 w/2t ammo and 97% of armor?  VERY useable and aside from the buttflaps the mini is pretty easy to put together.

My main point was the Jenner IIC was not really very Jenner, I know the history.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 09 February 2021, 15:32:29
Do you guys think Clan Protectorate Elemental forces would use various FWL Battle Armor designs?
Probably not as primary suits due to their lack of HarJel but still.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 February 2021, 15:43:23
You also have a lot of other BA available . . .

The GDL Surat, the Clan Med BA of flavors IIRC the Foxes produce, and others.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 09 February 2021, 17:33:30
anyone who thinks the streamlined form of the Havoc is ugly but the blocky misshapen thing that is the Jenner IIC is ugly need to reexamine their sense of beauty.

i mean the Havoc:
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/0e/Havoc.jpg?timestamp=20130825182023)

vs the jenner IIC.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/Jenner_IIC_TRO3055r.png?timestamp=20180206013038)

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 09 February 2021, 17:36:51
anyone who thinks the streamlined form of the Havoc is ugly but the blocky misshapen thing that is the Jenner IIC is ugly need to reexamine their sense of beauty.

i mean the Havoc:
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/0e/Havoc.jpg?timestamp=20130825182023)

vs the jenner IIC.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/Jenner_IIC_TRO3055r.png?timestamp=20180206013038)

The havoc was one of my favorite looking mechs in DA
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 09 February 2021, 22:23:10
The havoc was one of my favorite looking mechs in DA
same. i was glad when the TRo came out and it turned out to have an actual good design.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Sartris on 09 February 2021, 23:00:29
anyone who thinks the streamlined form of the Havoc is ugly but the blocky misshapen thing that is the Jenner IIC is ugly need to reexamine their sense of beauty.

i mean the Havoc:
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/0e/Havoc.jpg?timestamp=20130825182023)

vs the jenner IIC.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/Jenner_IIC_TRO3055r.png?timestamp=20180206013038)

i have a theory

(http://puu.sh/HfjMT/b5df76bbd3.png)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 10 February 2021, 12:11:04
The Jenner IIC is a sleek, streamlined design with graceful line. I, in particular, rather like the MWO version. But then I do have a fondness for walking weapon pod designs.

In comparison, the Havoc is a hunchbacked, hulking monstrosity. Its attempts to look menacing comes off as goofy. This is not helped by the double fisted lasers. I want to put a cowboy hat and pancho on the thing.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 10 February 2021, 15:48:54
I keep thinking the Havoc looks like a spartan from halo duel welding guns

I like it
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 March 2021, 10:21:31
I'm in the, "The Havoc is unusably ugly" camp.

Most of the weird cartoony dark age designs live there for me.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 March 2021, 18:18:02
Eh, it suffers from the same art problems noted with vehicles in TRO3145/50 but if you look at it's MWDA mini it is good.  Heck the IWM mini is fine but for the butt flaps.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 March 2021, 04:49:21
Find in DA arhives:

Janis Nova Cat (about connection between Nova Cats and Spirit Cats)
Quote
Janis Nova Cat is rightly proud of her Arbalest, “Sanctum.” A brand-new design to the Nova Cats within the Draconis Combine, none is available to the Spirit Cats in the Republic. In 3129, however, she won the right to travel to the Nova Cat capital of Irece in House Kurita, one of only a handful of Spirit Cats to do so in the past several decades, and there consulted with the Nova Cat Oathmaster. Upon seeing the first Arbalest walk off the assembly line, she immediately declared a Trial of Possession for it and claimed it as her spoils of victory


Sariah Nova Cat

Quote
However, beneath the surface, it appears that her real desire is to see the Vozka Bloodname propagated again to 25 and to have it match the glory and prestige of the Deleportas and Devalis Bloodnames. Once more, as Janis Nova Cat is of the Devalis Bloodname House, her legendary temper would surely snap to the fore should she become aware of Sariah's plans. Her Centurion is nicknamed "Chosen."
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 March 2021, 09:25:11
Janis later on ended up with a Nova Cat Omni IIRC, and she never did end up with a bloodname IIRC.

Still interesting find among the archives.  One of the novels I am looking forward to is a early one dealing with a Spirit Cat that has 'Star Colonels' leading mixed light cluster sized task forces.  From what I remember he had a Warhammer IIC w/4 ERLLs (light SRN!) but it had a lot of officers meeting with Kev Rosse.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 March 2021, 12:45:40
Still interesting find among the archives.  One of the novels I am looking forward to is a early one dealing with a Spirit Cat that has 'Star Colonels' leading mixed light cluster sized task forces.  From what I remember he had a Warhammer IIC w/4 ERLLs (light SRN!) but it had a lot of officers meeting with Kev Rosse.

 Star captain Cox Devalis from "Target of Opportunity" book.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 10 April 2021, 02:06:14
From new Rec guide:
Another medium mech in the clan protectorate (and wolf empire) - Firestorm. And Supernova also arrived)
Bloodnamed nova cat  survivor of the destruction in DC space as Wolf Empire abtakha.
PS I think a Firestorm would be the perfect new mech for Rikkard
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 10 April 2021, 09:05:07
The Firestorm I like I like the name, movement profile which is a hit different and Weapons again different I like the use of the Plasma Cannon it doesn't get a lot of use

Nice to see the Supernova even if the Foxes cheated them a bit
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 10 April 2021, 19:47:01
Having that Supernova is brilliant and I want at least one immediately.  It's two Awesome 8Qs stapled together with extended range and it somehow manages to not overheat to boot.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 11 April 2021, 17:45:33
I'm resisting the urge to nickname the Firestorm the Pyro Cat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 21 April 2021, 09:06:55
Having broken down and received all the Recognition Guides recently...

The Huntsman's design elements make SO much more sense now that we know it was originally a Diamond Shark designed mech. I will need to resist the urge to paint giant shark teeth on any of them I get. Now we need an aquatic focused version.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nibs on 21 April 2021, 09:27:05
Having broken down and received all the Recognition Guides recently...

The Huntsman's design elements make SO much more sense now that we know it was originally a Diamond Shark designed mech. I will need to resist the urge to paint giant shark teeth on any of them I get. Now we need an aquatic focused version.

I did always think it was weird that it wasn't a Shark 'Mech in the first place! Does the Protectorate still retain it?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 21 April 2021, 17:52:55
It's being built in the Protectorate along with the Shadow Cat and what feels increasingly likely to be the Nova Cat, too.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 April 2021, 20:06:02
It's being built in the Protectorate along with the Shadow Cat and what feels increasingly likely to be the Nova Cat, too.

I hope so . . . while I was hoping for a non-Reflec Cave Lion or improved Sphinx . . . I guess I can settle for the Nova Cat Omni.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 21 April 2021, 20:09:20
I hope so . . . while I was hoping for a non-Reflec Cave Lion or improved Sphinx . . . I guess I can settle for the Nova Cat Omni.

It would be nice to get the band back together again... though at this point I wonder what is in store for our wayward protectorate? Hopefully Ilclan drops soon. Seems like a third of 2021's already disappeared.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 21 April 2021, 23:42:57
It would be nice to get the band back together again... though at this point I wonder what is in store for our wayward protectorate? Hopefully Ilclan drops soon. Seems like a third of 2021's already disappeared.

 I think that after the final fall of the Republic, even more Nova Cats will move from there to the Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CJC070 on 22 April 2021, 08:38:22
I think that after the final fall of the Republic, even more Nova Cats will move from there to the Protectorate.

I wonder if a few other clanners will move in as well, not everyone will want the Wolves as the iClan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 April 2021, 09:10:17
I wonder if a few other clanners will move in as well, not everyone will want the Wolves as the iClan.

The idea is to establish a new star league... so I'm not sure anyone has a choice...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 April 2021, 09:17:52
I think that after the final fall of the Republic, even more Nova Cats will move from there to the Protectorate.

How?

A, they are unlikely to learn of the Clan Protectorate
B, if they are on Drac worlds they are likely part of a pogrom
C, if they are on Cappie worlds they are likely in a gulag for being 'foreign invaders' or whatever MadCap's sidebar in SF was
D, if the Wolves took the world besides A you also have a lack of freedom of movement
E, if the Falcons took the world, you have A, lack of freedom of movement, lack of JS visiting, and possibly specifically targeted if in a enclave
F, behind the Fortress the Republic took steps to stomp out all the little factions w/ a 'join or die' as the least level of action (Bannson's nuts were just killed)
     F2, the enclave militias- Wolf, HH, NC, GB, and maybe Fox- were all involved in absorbing territory contributing to destabilization
G, you are talking about identification after 10+ years of emergency programs & attendant indoctrination . . . heck, a whole generation of warriors would have grown up behind the Fortress wall
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 April 2021, 11:50:35
13 years have passed since the founding of the Protectorate. I think the rumors about its existence have definitely reached the population of Nova Cats in the republic.
The wolves are not in a position to control the flow of refugees right now. The falcons, too.
There are several former Republican worlds that have not yet been taken over by anyone.
Therefore, if not the surviving warriors, then the civilian Nova Cats will be able to escape to the Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 April 2021, 14:30:29
13 years that mean nothing to the Nova Cat enclaves that were in the Fortress, which is all that counts- Rikkard already had everyone who could/would meet him do so before hitting Marik

Wolves co-opted the Jumpships in their space- no travel.  Besides how do they pay passage on DS/JS that would be allowed to operate in Wolf space?  C-bills are dead, Stones would be worthless to anyone not on that planet, and what would a dropship/JS purser want that civilians could afford to cover 4-7 jumps and 2-3 months passage?

They still need to know it exists, news is not going to propagate like it does today
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 15:07:23
The idea is to establish a new star league... so I'm not sure anyone has a choice...

I'm not really privy to clan machinations or lore but by this point I find it strange that the Foxes, Bears, and Ravens even still care.  Foxes can be bought by just throwing Comstar and territory as neutral merchants but (imo) the point of the Alliance and Dominion is to show how clan occupation has resulted in a synthesis of local and clan culture that is above just surviving after being cast out of their homeworld sector.  If the Ilkhan tells them to do something, they still have to do it even if their people don't want to and that should be taken into account.

I'm curious as to how the Clan Protectorate is going to react, especially if the FWL decides not to side with the Stu Wolf on Terra or the fact the Fox fleets are practically autonomous of their Khan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nibs on 22 April 2021, 15:12:35
I'm not really privy to clan machinations or lore but by this point I find it strange that the Foxes, Bears, and Ravens even still care.  Foxes can be bought by just throwing Comstar and territory as neutral merchants but (imo) the point of the Alliance and Dominion is to show how clan occupation has resulted in a synthesis of local and clan culture that is above just surviving after being cast out of their homeworld sector.  If the Ilkhan tells them to do something, they still have to do it even if their people don't want to and that should be taken into account.

I'm curious as to how the Clan Protectorate is going to react, especially if the FWL decides not to side with the Stu Wolf on Terra or the fact the Fox fleets are practically autonomous of their Khan.

Says who?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 15:31:45
Uh, good question.  I vaguely know some spoiler details but I assume the part where the other IS clans except the Horses acknowledge the new Ilclan and Ilkhan and (major assumption) will probably get lumped into the new Star League instead of just being a Wolf-Falcon-[somehow still living] Smoke Jaguar bloc.  So implied to be taking orders from them.

Like I said I don't fully understand clan society yet.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 April 2021, 16:20:34
Using basic descriptions of types of government, it is making the ilClan status something like the leader of a confederation rather than a dictatorship or other authoritarian structure.  It is definitely not a republic- Alaric has said he has no equal among the Clans, but he does not seem to think he can order them about without problems.

This does sound different than how it was in the 3050s where it seemed like the ilClan would be automatically absorbing the other Clans though this could be a real-politik bit on Alaric's part realizing he is not strong enough to enforce such a absorption.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Nibs on 22 April 2021, 16:29:45
I believe that they acknowledge the title of ilKhan and provide nominal respect to Alaric... But no Clan (outside of the three on Terra) will obey his orders.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 22 April 2021, 17:10:05
I have a feeling Kisho might play a part in the Protectorates future how I'm not sure but he was in the legends product as a notable warrior in the ilClan era

Alaric seems like creating tools to do his biding per Children

If he has come across or heard of Kisho he may try to have him "bend the knee" as it were and give him the prize of the Combine?

That said the Protectorate is better placed for crushing the FWL the Jags could be given the Combine to redeem themselves with the Ravens and Bears

The Falcons and Horses take the Lyrans leaving a crippled Suns and Strong Confederation to try and stand with multiple Clans looking at them

If Alaric can force the Horses into capitulation and turn the Protectorate...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 April 2021, 17:17:41
13 years that mean nothing to the Nova Cat enclaves that were in the Fortress, which is all that counts- Rikkard already had everyone who could/would meet him do so before hitting Marik

Wolves co-opted the Jumpships in their space- no travel.  Besides how do they pay passage on DS/JS that would be allowed to operate in Wolf space?  C-bills are dead, Stones would be worthless to anyone not on that planet, and what would a dropship/JS purser want that civilians could afford to cover 4-7 jumps and 2-3 months passage?

They still need to know it exists, news is not going to propagate like it does today

We know that after the creation of the Protectorate, many Cats moved to it. Even some survivors from DC space. And a full cluster of warriors from the Republic. With the death of the Republic, such refugees may well be added. For example, at the expense of those who until recently believed in the Republic. But now they have nothing to believe in and can join their brothers in the Protectorate.
They can pay with what they have. Cats have one of the best trading castes, so it is unlikely that their enclaves in the republic were poor.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GreekFire on 22 April 2021, 17:46:25
If he has come across or heard of Kisho he may try to have him "bend the knee" as it were and give him the prize of the Combine?

That's my pet theory just because of how wild it'd be.

I mean, technically speaking, Kisho has a stronger claim to the Kuritan throne than Yuri does.

If she's forcibly deposed and Kisho takes her place, all of his heirs could then be vatborn, leading to an even more savage and/or political sibko system where the top performer and/or sole survivor becomes the new Coordinator upon the current Coordinator's death.

It'd be pretty far out, but hey, I think it'd be fun.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 22 April 2021, 18:11:22
I was thinking that too but the FWL option allows the Cats to build on what they have also give the Combine to the Jags it separates the Nova Cats or Spirit Cats from the Bears and Jags especially but leaves likelihood of a Falcon border so things won't be plain sailing

And Gives the Jags a chance at redeeming their history with the Combine which even then Clans didn't like

Kisho could lead them? That'd be different and play into the Fidelis link which in turn would link two Reborn Clans and further drive the cooperation of the ilClan

I don't think the relationship would be the same as the past was though not aster recent books both have been humbled to near extinction
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 April 2021, 18:39:01
I don't think Alaric will fight the FWL. Alaric simply does not have the strength to fight with everyone and he needs allies not only among the clans.
As for Kisho... Alaric likes to use people and symbols. Kisho is in fact a trueborn Kurita (as Alaric trueborn Steiner-Davion) who will be loyal to the Ilkhan who revived his clan. Given the potential war with Draconis Combine, he could be very useful to Alaric. And if you've read the DA books, you know that Alaric and Kisho already know each other.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 23 April 2021, 00:01:53
If Kisho is a legitimate Kurita, doesn't that mean they are destined to rule the Inner Sphere,  or else?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dahmin_Toran on 23 April 2021, 09:28:40
I don't think Alaric will fight the FWL. Alaric simply does not have the strength to fight with everyone and he needs allies not only among the clans.
As for Kisho... Alaric likes to use people and symbols. Kisho is in fact a trueborn Kurita (as Alaric trueborn Steiner-Davion) who will be loyal to the Ilkhan who revived his clan. Given the potential war with Draconis Combine, he could be very useful to Alaric. And if you've read the DA books, you know that Alaric and Kisho already know each other.

The problem is that Alaric do not think of the other Khans (and Clans) as equals and he also wants to subjugate the Inner Sphere, not bring them into the new Star League.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 23 April 2021, 09:41:00
The problem is that Alaric do not think of the other Khans (and Clans) as equals and he also wants to subjugate the Inner Sphere, not bring them into the new Star League.

Maybe he wants to, but can he? Considering the powers he possesses. Sooner or later, he will have to start playing diplomacy.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 April 2021, 09:58:02
The problem is that Alaric do not think of the other Khans (and Clans) as equals and he also wants to subjugate the Inner Sphere, not bring them into the new Star League.

Thing is the other Clans will accept/agree . . . getting to Terra first was the prize.  Now, it is not as big a deal as it would have been in 3050 but the other Clans still acknowledge the value of the prize and grant some leadership to the winner even if it is not to the same degree as 3050.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 23 April 2021, 13:51:45
Maybe he wants to, but can he? Considering the powers he possesses. Sooner or later, he will have to start playing diplomacy.

It may take longer hut combined the Clans could conquer the Inner Sphere
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 18 June 2021, 17:20:37
I wonder if we'll see bloodnamed Nova/Spirit Cat warriors in the Clan Protectorate? Of the currently known ones, there are more in the Wolf clan)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 21 June 2021, 14:05:47
So, if drawing up a list of available units for Clan Protectorate, how'd you do it?
Seems to me filtering for IS Clan General, FWL, Sea Fox and Nova Cat in MUL seems reasonable?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 June 2021, 15:08:03
Or go to all the MWDA RATs and look at the 2 FWL sub-state entries in . . . FM3145, ER3145, Era Digest:  Dark Age . . . and perhaps TP: Irian.

Besides the FWL general & CP specific, you would also want to give some wait to the Marik Stewart Commonwealth & Republic (Era Digest Dark Age).  In addition, depending on when you were concerned with the Protectorate also fought the Regulans on several occasions which would have garnered quite a bit of salvage.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 21 June 2021, 15:17:58
RATs are way too limited, and occasionally inconsistent with MUL so i tend to just ignore them. But i guess i should check them over.
Don't have TP Irian incidentally, is it any good?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 June 2021, 19:20:45
It covers MWDA's world wide event that led to the Marauder II coming on scene.  Each of the MWDA factions fought on the planet over the factory . . . Dragon's Fury were the winners, but they all had varying degrees of success.  The RAT and description give- I THINK- the only real defined Spirit Cat force outside of ED: Dark Age.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 21 June 2021, 20:12:26
This is a case of the RAT being very important in informing a faction.  We don't get enough Spirit Cat info or stories.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 June 2021, 01:22:01
This is a case of the RAT being very important in informing a faction.  We don't get enough Spirit Cat info or stories.

 We get some info from rec guides and Golden Era TRO. Lupus, Shadow cat, Huntsman, Supernova, Firestorm.
Sources from the early Dark Age are already outdated. I think Spirit cats don't use agromechs in 3140-3150))
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Turaglas on 22 June 2021, 01:45:51
I'm not really to well into reading on it but between the Wolf Empire invasion, FM3145 seems to indicate there is a lot of friction there.  The Purifier Cluster in particular hates the Wolves and the First Nova Cat Provisionals were still scarred from the Republic by 3145.  (not that it matters)  Although that might mean the Nova Cats might be swayed, not sure on the Spirit Cats.  My guess is Alaric will have a case of like mother, like son but I didn't read HotW other than what people have said to me verbatim. 

As for what they have available... I'm going to guess whatever Nova Cats or Sea Foxes would have in the MUL?  You do have the sparse rats on page 216 of FM3145 under the FWL but you can probably get away with mixing in mechs or use the instructions on Touchpoint Marik in SF, page 110.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 June 2021, 09:34:38
We get some info from rec guides and Golden Era TRO. Lupus, Shadow cat, Huntsman, Supernova, Firestorm.
Sources from the early Dark Age are already outdated. I think Spirit cats don't use agromechs in 3140-3150))

Sure, they can make those but you do not know the frequency- as in the Foxes take 80% of production for export which leaves the Protectorate with 4 of the 20 produced every year.  We also know they were producing . . . Tempest C?  and IIRC the Guillotine IIC 2?  As far as armed IndiMechs . . . they may, and they may still be using things like the Inquisitor Mk II or other 'securitymechs' that they had on hand for the lowest tier defending units.  Or they were relegated to training sibkos, which is very likely, and thus part of the 'last ditch' defense of Marik.

But we come back around to the point that (for some reason) the Protectorate's leader and senior Spirit Cat, Rikkard Nova Cat, pilots a Firestarter (after using a Shadow Hawk IIC . . . ) rather than something better.  Or did until the Regulans wrecked him.

One thing you must remember when forming a Spirit Cat force is their evolution . . . they were a Republic splinter faction which means they drew their initial equipment from what the militia/standing guard had available, what they salvaged from fight OTHER splinter factions, what they bought from the Foxes at that time (3132-3135?), what they salvaged from regular Republic forces and invading Liaos before the last stragglers joined Rikkard to invade Marik.  THEN they destroyed the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth's defending regiment while 'buying' more Fox support, expanded the Protectorate which means faced occasional raids from randos, faced Trials of Possession against the Crusader Wolves in the early to mid 40s, and finally fought several rounds with the Regulan Hussars (broke 2 regiments?).  Their touman is separate from the FWLM and I would be surprised if they imported equipment from the rest of the League, and instead would be considered a net exporter of military equipment as a province.

If you are going to reference a Nova Cat era on the MUL you would be better off looking at Jihad or Early Republic as a source since that is when the factional split occurred and while they did trade in later eras it would not weight towards that list.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 June 2021, 10:26:08
But we come back around to the point that (for some reason) the Protectorate's leader and senior Spirit Cat, Rikkard Nova Cat, pilots a Firestarter (after using a Shadow Hawk IIC . . . ) rather than something better.  Or did until the Regulans wrecked him.

I think this is a fact check error)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 June 2021, 11:58:39
Nope . . . in the game, Rikkard commanded a Firestarter . . . and not one that had range or was anything special.  In the FWL arc at the end of the MWDA novels Rikkard is piloting a Shadow Hawk IIC for the invasion of Marik.  First action on the world has him claiming a Legionnaire as a dueling opponent as the Cats advance on the capital.  Then he is involved in city fighting in his Shadow Hawk IIC . . .

 . . . but in Shattered Fortress, we get Rikkard once again in a Firestarter.  He challenges the Regulan commander, who decides to ignore Clan rules, and since the enemy commander so obligingly identified himself gets focus fired down by the Regulans in range.  Not that a Firestarter could stand up to much attention but just figuring a company+ of mechs open fire it is not a surprise the mech got wrecked.  This obviously pissed off the Protectorate forces who went on to rolfstomp the Regulans- and degraded their readiness too much in the push- to be able to hold up to the follow up Regulan forces.  Rikkard survived, and we hope actually picks something survivable like a Nova Cat . . . though Janis old Omni should have been available after taking Marik but he did not take it at the time.

Heck, Petr got a Hammerhead after his Tiburon was lost when the Foxes on planet assisted the regular Protectorate forces in '47- same battle Rikkard got dropped.

If Rikkard will not take a heavy, at least get a decent med like a Shadow Cat (I or III?) . . . or maybe let us see one of the other Havocs . . . give me a Havoc with cERMLs as part of that mixed design, it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 June 2021, 16:14:51
Not Havoc. Firestorm. 5/10/7 , flamer, another "heat" weapon. Rikkard like flamers)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 June 2021, 21:39:38
If he sticks with a light, the 8/12/7 Havoc is better than getting a replacement Firestarter . . . and if it gets me one with HMLs and a SC, so much the better.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Turaglas on 23 June 2021, 01:15:06
Firestarter IIC when.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 23 June 2021, 01:33:30
Firestarter IIC when.

Laughs in Lobo 2 and Firestorm
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Ruger on 23 June 2021, 04:04:26
Firestarter IIC when.

Hellion E

Ruger
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 June 2021, 09:22:41
Firestarter IIC when.

Still no . . . 6/9/6 (staying true to form) on a light is a death sentence in a 'modern' force- see the light mech topic of a couple of months ago.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 23 June 2021, 14:48:00
Not Havoc. Firestorm. 5/10/7 , flamer, another "heat" weapon. Rikkard like flamers)

I'd take a Firestorm in a moment if I previously piloted a Firestarter
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 June 2021, 15:58:54
I did not get that RecGuide- besides the speed . . . weight?

Fine with leaders having lighter mechs, but they need to be survivable- if they were going to be leaders.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 23 June 2021, 16:04:59
I did not get that RecGuide- besides the speed . . . weight?

Fine with leaders having lighter mechs, but they need to be survivable- if they were going to be leaders.

Firestorm is in the MUL, 50 tons
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 25 June 2021, 12:25:22
The Firestorm is a heavier Shadow Cat, built as an Incendiary mech (Plasma cannon, Plasma Rifle, AND a Flamer). It's also produced by the Sea Fox inside the Protectorate so it's a rather good fit for him. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 June 2021, 12:44:11
Well, with new Firestarter art released . . . I am concerned he will end up back in one.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Turaglas on 25 June 2021, 13:35:13
Convince them to make it a special IIC one.  He's got the magic of plot armor, he'll be fine!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 June 2021, 13:55:52
Convince them to make it a special IIC one.  He's got the magic of plot armor, he'll be fine!

Making it a IIC is not going to make it any more survivable when a 35t mech that moves 6/9/6 runs into heavies with two 10 point hits.

A Firestarter being destroyed when getting fired on by all the Regulans in range is not surprising.  Finding enough of the mech left to pry him out of is the surprise.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Turaglas on 26 June 2021, 05:17:27
I'd call that a fluke, but... surprises like that happen.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 03 July 2021, 17:52:14
A few fan theories about Nova/Spirit cats:
-Where is Kisho? Wayside 5. The Cats helped the remnants of the Jaguars to reach this planet. The infrastructure for the colony remained there from the Fidelis.
-What military forces fly whith Kisho? 1-2 mixed clusters. Some of them are Spirit Cats who have joined Kisho (maybe Cox Devalis among them), the other is 189 Striker Cluster. This is the only cluster of Nova Cats with a history that has survived the 2 DC-GB war.
-Riccard's bloodname? Drummond. The Nova Cats started with Rosse and Drummond. Given their mystical nature, Spirit Cats should start with the same. Maybe Rickard will become the oldest warrior ever to receive a bloodname)
-Will Nova Cats resurrect? Yes and no. Alaric recognizes the Spirit Cats as a new clan and they will absorb all the remnants of the Nova Cats. And maybe someday in the future they will take the name back.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 04 July 2021, 08:41:38
A few fan theories about Nova/Spirit cats:
-Where is Kisho? Wayside 5. The Cats helped the remnants of the Jaguars to reach this planet. The infrastructure for the colony remained there from the Fidelis.
-What military forces fly whith Kisho? 1-2 mixed clusters. Some of them are Spirit Cats who have joined Kisho (maybe Cox Devalis among them), the other is 189 Striker Cluster. This is the only cluster of Nova Cats with a history that has survived the 2 DC-GB war.
-Riccard's bloodname? Drummond. The Nova Cats started with Rosse and Drummond. Given their mystical nature, Spirit Cats should start with the same. Maybe Rickard will become the oldest warrior ever to receive a bloodname)
-Will Nova Cats resurrect? Yes and no. Alaric recognizes the Spirit Cats as a new clan and they will absorb all the remnants of the Nova Cats. And maybe someday in the future they will take the name back.

Combine all 4 and it'd take it
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: nckestrel on 04 July 2021, 10:21:48
Making it a IIC is not going to make it any more survivable when a 35t mech that moves 6/9/6 runs into heavies with two 10 point hits.

A Firestarter being destroyed when getting fired on by all the Regulans in range is not surprising.  Finding enough of the mech left to pry him out of is the surprise.

Maybe it’s a IIC one like the Phoenix Hawk IIC…
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 04 July 2021, 12:06:12
I think this is a fact check error)

Probably worth mentioning that the thing is in use for what are ultimately religious reasons. A Combine pilot really impressed the Nova Cats with it once.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 04 July 2021, 12:20:25
I always get a good laugh out of suggesting characters get different 'Mechs, especially the ones in Lights.  Do you think a writer is going to accidentally write that they've been shot down and killed because the 'Mech they were in was too light?  No, of course not.

The only thing it would accomplish is a sort of narrative min-maxing on the fans' side of things for no actual benefit.  It could very well be that this character is excellent at this particular 'Mech's controls, or they like what their 'Mech can do, or they're personally attached to it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 July 2021, 16:03:39
He was in a ATM Shadow Hawk IIC when he had gained more rank.  IIRC his Firestarter from MWDA was a pretty regular, like a FS9 series.

While he is a character, he is also a commander and needs something more survivable.  It would be different if it was something like a Havoc which at least has the speed to avoid most things it cannot outfight.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 04 July 2021, 20:59:31
There is literally no difference between a Firestarter and Great Turtle in whether he'll be shot down though.  No one (who isn't a hack) is playing actual games of BT to determine how a fight goes for a given character, and whether or not he's shot down and survives or dies has absolutely nothing to do with the mech he's in.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 04 July 2021, 21:28:29
Characters in assault 'Mechs will die from shots to the head same as anyone else. Probably more likely come to think of it, VSD got lucky and survived.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 04 July 2021, 22:13:13
Nicholas Kerensky agrees.  Fried by a large laser to the cockpit.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 July 2021, 01:50:41
There is literally no difference between a Firestarter and Great Turtle in whether he'll be shot down though.  No one (who isn't a hack) is playing actual games of BT to determine how a fight goes for a given character, and whether or not he's shot down and survives or dies has absolutely nothing to do with the mech he's in.

Yeah, because plausibility does not enter into story telling at all.  Considering we have a half dozen threads about what a commander should ride and their position, just asking that he get something more survivable- and 6/9/6 light in 3145 is like a 4/6/4 in 3050- even if it is a better light rather than heavier.  I also never suggested an assault.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 05 July 2021, 02:10:13
It's plausible to suggest that any mech that isn’t a garbage fire will survive a given encounter and the pilot will survive going to ground with it if it doesn't.  What the mech actually is is completely irrelevant to the needs of the story being written.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 July 2021, 15:49:28
The mech he is in for the story depends on the needs of the writer but as the leader of the Protectorate you would think he would be piloting a mech actually built by them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 05 July 2021, 16:12:50
The mech he is in for the story depends on the needs of the writer but as the leader of the Protectorate you would think he would be piloting a mech actually built by them.
I'll note it is not uncommon for BT characters to pilot unusual 'Mechs for their nation/Clan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 05 July 2021, 16:31:31
given how short a time the protectorate has existed thus far, much less had their own mech production, that he pilots something not made by them is hardly surprising.

as a composite entity, most of their forces would be composed of hardware that was bought, borrowed, or stolen from other factions, and it'll be a while before domestic production can make a noticeable dent in the makeup.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 05 July 2021, 16:34:05
Besides, no point in ditching perfectly functional machine. (Maintenance can't be a real issue, BattleTech magic works usually.)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 05 July 2021, 17:04:41
Rikkard is the leader of the  Clan Protectorate. De facto, he is not just a galaxy commander, but the khan of Cats. And he could take absolutely any mech available to the Protectorate and even order something special through Sea Foxes. Therefore, the reason why he  was fighting in Firestarter is clearly not in the absence of other mechs. Unless his main mech was damaged earlier in the same battle and he came out on a backup machine. Or some trial just before battle.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 05 July 2021, 17:14:53
Yet he chooses to pilot a machine best used for starting fires in corn fields and making smoke to mess up people's LoS.

A tactical fellow, very interesting.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 05 July 2021, 17:28:05
There's a Ghost Bear Khan famous for piloting a Fire Moth her whole career.  Familiarity and experience with a particular mech is something that BattleTech categorically fails to acknowledge.  Rickard could very well be significantly better at piloting a Firestarter than any other mech, and be less likely to make a mistake or go somewhere he's too exposed, where the physical durability of the mech is less important and less useful.

It's more interesting - and better writing - to use information already presented and determine how or why that came to be than it is to force something into an efficiency cookie cutter shape.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 05 July 2021, 17:52:40
Possibly but I'd love a Firestarter IIC  ;) (Firestorm works)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2021, 09:19:07
There's a Ghost Bear Khan famous for piloting a Fire Moth her whole career.  Familiarity and experience with a particular mech is something that BattleTech categorically fails to acknowledge.  Rickard could very well be significantly better at piloting a Firestarter than any other mech, and be less likely to make a mistake or go somewhere he's too exposed, where the physical durability of the mech is less important and less useful.

It's more interesting - and better writing - to use information already presented and determine how or why that came to be than it is to force something into an efficiency cookie cutter shape.

The difference is the Fire Moth goes fast enough to survive and can easily mount weapons that reach more than 270 meters.  She was also know IIRC to swap between configs though mostly sticking with the ERMLs of the D- a weapon that hits almost as hard as a standard IS large laser, carrying the weapons load of a medium mech.

Your last sentence absolutely neglects the ONLY mech we ever had him piloting in fiction was a ATM Shadow Hawk IIC.  The Firestarter was just his MWDA fig/dossier- a mech that has 6 regular flamers and a Defiance ERML . . . and 'walked off the assembly line before the fall of the Star League . . .' before the Cats took it as salvage from the Dracs.  Guess at some point it was restored to SL stats w/ its ES frame.

But in the final FWL rebirth arc in the MWDA novels he is leading the Spirit Cats on their invasion of Marik and singles out a Legionnaire that is sent against the Cats in a spoiling attack.  He uses the speed, maneuverability, and flexibility of the Shadow Hawk IIC to take down the Legionnaire with minimal damage- no comments on it being a new mech or unfamiliar or anything along those lines.  It is a very well written, letting the reader picture the two mechs moving against each other in battle quite easily.

The Shadow Hawk IIC is not the 'best' mech they had in their inventory at the time- one of his subordinates pilots a Nova Cat and they already had the material backing of the Sea Foxes above Marik.  It is instead a good average medium mech rather than some uber machine.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2021, 10:07:12
Question: Have there been any clear canon statements one way or the other regarding wether or not the Nova Cats that form the core of the Protectorate still have any ProtoMech forces?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2021, 10:34:51
Question: Have there been any clear canon statements one way or the other regarding wether or not the Nova Cats that form the core of the Protectorate still have any ProtoMech forces?

I thought the Nova Cats and Warden Wolves did away with their Proto programs after the Jihad ended.  Both factions had them after the Jaguar destruction and while never said to me the implication was they were the repository for SL captured proto warriors- while they had protos in the RATs nothing ever said they built them afaik nor did they design their own.  Guess you could look at Obj Clans to see if either produced Protos, or LC/DC respectively if they are in their host's PDF.  I do not have any of those 3 so I could not say.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2021, 12:24:11
We know the Cats built Protos after the Jihad at least, owing to the Satyr XP in TRO Prototypes. I'm just wondering if a canon source has clearly said one way or the other about them by the time of the Protectorate. I wanna know if I can feasibly place ProtoMechs in FWL service. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2021, 12:31:37
Informally known among the FWLM as the 'Purple People Eaters' . . .

Was the Satyr actually factory produced or modified for the remaining Proto pilots?  I am not sure the Cats or the Warden Wolves retained their washed out pilots to convert them- different bits actually show the Wolves had people leave the Clan and when sipping Stone's kool-aid were BS/SV levels strict on who actually became warriors.  For the Nova Cats I cannot speak to them as much.

But a reasonable interpretation of the existence of a XP model is they were modifying Satyrs for longer deployment/use (FREX, the B-52 . . . ) with their remaining Jaguar abathka proto pilots.  If it shows up under later MUL/RAT lists, the simple answer is they sold what they did to the Sharkfoxes and it propagated from that point onward.  IMO a interesting question that has not been answered was that the Sharks had been selling Protos- do they still build them into the 3150s for sale to Ravens & Horses . . . and Scorpions?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 06 July 2021, 12:36:29
I'd assume the Second Combine-Ghost Bear war destroyed Nova Cat ProtoMech industry.

EDIT MUL has no ProtoMechs for Nova Cats after Early Republic era. And Historical: Wars of the Republic Era notes: "With their largest manufacturing facilities in ruin and most of the entire Nova Cat touman destroyed on Irece, there was no way to rebuild."
I would assume that most certainly covers Nova Cat ProtoMechs.

EDIT Note this happens after TRO Prototypes.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2021, 13:09:57
Informally known among the FWLM as the 'Purple People Eaters' . . .

Was the Satyr actually factory produced or modified for the remaining Proto pilots?

Does it matter? Wether building new ones or continuing to use old ones, usage is usage.

I'd assume the Second Combine-Ghost Bear war destroyed Nova Cat ProtoMech industry.
Assuming is exactly what I'm refusing to do here.
Quote
MUL has no ProtoMechs for Nova Cats after Early Republic era.

That's pretty much the kind of clear source I was looking for, thanks.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 06 July 2021, 13:21:56
The difference is the Fire Moth goes fast enough to survive and can easily mount weapons that reach more than 270 meters.  She was also know IIRC to swap between configs though mostly sticking with the ERMLs of the D- a weapon that hits almost as hard as a standard IS large laser, carrying the weapons load of a medium mech.

Your last sentence absolutely neglects the ONLY mech we ever had him piloting in fiction was a ATM Shadow Hawk IIC.  The Firestarter was just his MWDA fig/dossier- a mech that has 6 regular flamers and a Defiance ERML . . . and 'walked off the assembly line before the fall of the Star League . . .' before the Cats took it as salvage from the Dracs.  Guess at some point it was restored to SL stats w/ its ES frame.

But in the final FWL rebirth arc in the MWDA novels he is leading the Spirit Cats on their invasion of Marik and singles out a Legionnaire that is sent against the Cats in a spoiling attack.  He uses the speed, maneuverability, and flexibility of the Shadow Hawk IIC to take down the Legionnaire with minimal damage- no comments on it being a new mech or unfamiliar or anything along those lines.  It is a very well written, letting the reader picture the two mechs moving against each other in battle quite easily.

The Shadow Hawk IIC is not the 'best' mech they had in their inventory at the time- one of his subordinates pilots a Nova Cat and they already had the material backing of the Sea Foxes above Marik.  It is instead a good average medium mech rather than some uber machine.

While it's very contrary to downstream normal Clan sentiments, Rikkard could be a few years into being more a statesman than Galaxy commander; somebody else got the Shadowcat and it's his old Firestarter that sits in the hanger most of the time as he pilots a desk.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 06 July 2021, 13:38:48
Come to think of it, the ProtoMechs would've been a perfect thing to focus when rebuilding. Not as resource intensive as full BattleMechs.
Of course, the Nova Cats basically didn't even seem to rebuild much...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 06 July 2021, 14:13:03
Come to think of it, the ProtoMechs would've been a perfect thing to focus when rebuilding. Not as resource intensive as full BattleMechs.
Of course, the Nova Cats basically didn't even seem to rebuild much...

I think protomech production has a weird catch-22. While they build faster and more resource-efficient than Battlemechs for battlemech-like performance, you need a very advanced industrial base to make them. So Nova Cats that are congratulating themselves on getting some Arbelests built might not be up to Clan Blood Spirit Reaving-era protomech armies.

EDIT: Another thing is that the Nova Cats had access to the DCMS sources of supply.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2021, 14:18:44
Does it matter? Whether building new ones or continuing to use old ones, usage is usage.

Iran uses the F-14 . . . no one else does any more.  They refit and rebuild them since they cannot build any more of those or of another type.  If they converted a existing Satyr into the XP- like most prototypes of this sort of thing- then it does not mean they ever built them or build any Satyrs in the first place.


This-
I'd assume the Second Combine-Ghost Bear war destroyed Nova Cat ProtoMech industry.

*snip* And Historical: Wars of the Republic Era notes: "With their largest manufacturing facilities in ruin and most of the entire Nova Cat touman destroyed on Irece, there was no way to rebuild."
I would assume that most certainly covers Nova Cat ProtoMechs.

Is how you get this-

EDIT MUL has no ProtoMechs for Nova Cats after Early Republic era.

By Early Republic any Jaguar abathka the Star League gave them would have been in service for 20 years . . . about the same for any early 'experimental' sibkos the Cats did  at their early relocation.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2021, 14:33:27
Iran uses the F-14 . . . no one else does any more.  They refit and rebuild them since they cannot build any more of those or of another type.  If they converted a existing Satyr into the XP- like most prototypes of this sort of thing- then it does not mean they ever built them or build any Satyrs in the first place.

That's not at all what I was asking. What I was seeking was something absolute and clear-cut like these:

MUL has no ProtoMechs for Nova Cats after Early Republic era.
Or this
Iran uses the F-14

I apologize if I wasn't clear earlier. I did not care one bit of the Nova Cats were building Protos, which is why no part of my initial question ever mentioned production. I was only asking about usage. This is a setting where individual units can last for centuries. Telling someone that Faction X does not produce Unit Y is in no way whatsoever telling them that Faction X does not deploy Unit Y.

That said, the very clear answer about the MUL is exactly what I was seeking, thank y'all very much.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 06 July 2021, 16:37:56
Question: Have there been any clear canon statements one way or the other regarding wether or not the Nova Cats that form the core of the Protectorate still have any ProtoMech forces?

Also ER 3145 mentions CHH and CSR are the only peoples using protomechs by that time.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 06 July 2021, 17:52:40
Come to think of it, the ProtoMechs would've been a perfect thing to focus when rebuilding. Not as resource intensive as full BattleMechs.
Of course, the Nova Cats basically didn't even seem to rebuild much...

The problem with protos is you do need decent aerospace breeding for a lot of the models (though the larger ones should have space for bigger pilots) you'd also need factories to produce them, engineers who know how they are built and how they work, designers and doctors capable of implanting Enhanced Imaging tech...

All in all quite a bit of resources not saying they couldn't get from the Foxes but if you get all that you may as well just join the Foxes

Could Kishos lot have some of that? Maybe but even combining that with what you have in the Protectorate I think they'd struggle to get ProtoMechs off the ground
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 06 July 2021, 20:48:39
the Foxes are already part of the protectorate (or at least one Aimag joined) so if the Protectorate wants to set up a Protomech factory i'm sure they could.
personally i'm hoping they do, because proto's are fun and the lack of people using them in the IS clans is frustrating. it would be a good way to set the Spirit Cats/Protectorate apart from the Wolves and Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 06 July 2021, 21:07:18
the Foxes are already part of the protectorate (or at least one Aimag joined) so if the Protectorate wants to set up a Protomech factory i'm sure they could.
personally i'm hoping they do, because proto's are fun and the lack of people using them in the IS clans is frustrating. it would be a good way to set the Spirit Cats/Protectorate apart from the Wolves and Falcons.

Protomechs aren't just another weapons system, though. They are a weapon for the desperate, the reckless or the callous. The Spirit Cats seem a bit too even-keeled to go in for them, which is admittedly a weird read on people that followed a vision quest on an interstellar campaign against daunting odds and many setbacks.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2021, 22:41:54
Protomechs aren't just another weapons system, though. They are a weapon for the desperate, the reckless or the callous. The Spirit Cats seem a bit too even-keeled to go in for them, which is admittedly a weird read on people that followed a vision quest on an interstellar campaign against daunting odds and many setbacks.

A Clan warrior 10 years in the touman is on the other side of the bell curve . . . it is like telling someone smoking a cigarette playing chicken with a freight train that they could die of lung cancer.  Sure, it is possible . . . but that oncoming train is a lot more likely.  A proto-warrior suffering the problems 12-21 years after the surgeries is going to be a rarity, like BA troopers and mechwarriors they are much more likely to die earlier in their career.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 06 July 2021, 23:30:27
Plus Proto's can be crewed by washouts from the Aerospace program and possibly even mechwarriors (the ultra's.. and there seems little reason you couldn't design your proto cockpits to fit normal human sized pilots), not to mention freeborns/IS civilians that fit the size requirements.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 07 July 2021, 02:02:12
I absolutely hate that what the Jaguars did out of desperation, the Falcons did to deliberately sabotage their own Proto program, and the Society did because there was no other way to get pilots became the de-facto accepted way that Proto pilots must be trained.

Protomechs have been around for 90 years.  There's no way that there aren't dedicated Proto sibkos and training programs beyond warrior candidate washouts in the Clans that still use them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 07 July 2021, 02:39:56
the hells horses and iirc ravens have them. but the idea of being able to reuse washouts is not a bad one. look at how the Ghost Bears allow washouts to enter into lesser military positions, it saves on waste. an aeropilot that washes out can still hope to become a protopilot. a mechwarrior can still hope to end up in a garrison unit or vehicle crew, elementals could still end up as MP's or marines, etc.

given the limited trueborn manpower of the protectorate, making full use of their sibkos is a good thing.. especially if it gives warriors who failed due to bad luck or circumstance rather than lack of skill a chance for redemption.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 07 July 2021, 03:05:31
Yes but that isn't (or shouldn't, if the goal is actually to reduce waste) exclusive to Protomechs, and I'm vaguely irritable that this is the only context it ever gets brought up in, usually directly alluding to substandard quality pilots or requiring washouts being a limiting supply factor for pilots at the same time.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 July 2021, 09:28:37
The other thing to consider with the Horses and Ravens is their washed out pilots ALSO end up piloting VTOLs- great place to stick the ones who have agoraphobia or whatever it is when they eyeball the black.

Like Scotty I would expect the Ravens especially and probably the Horses (especially with their tinkering with bloodlines for elstars? or tankwarriors? cannot recall) started Proto sibkos in the Early Republic era . . . but we really do not get a good look, afaik about the 'reconstruction' that happened after the Jihad.  The Ravens already have Warship & ASF separate sibkos or at least bloodline/breedings IIRC.  The greatest bulk of the sources on how everyone recovered from the Jihad are from MWDA's INN articles but that is written from a IS perspective and just the shallowest look at the Clans.

I would love to see the Cats return to being Proto users, but I am not sure they have the population on Marik or the 'enclaves' on other Protectorate worlds (aka garrison bases).  The Protectorate's touman IMO would split between Clan born being mechwarriors, aeropilots, BA troopers, and DS crew while the freeborns raised for the touman mostly (but not all, we have examples) crew vehicles and cover PBI roles.  I am not sure they can afford the diversification of their touman yet though that could change in a few years.

BECAUSE . . . if pushed early, the Cats could have sibkos pushing new warriors into the touman by '55 though '57 is more likely if I remember the dates.  The real question is do they have any of the Nova Cat's legacies?  I do not remember from MWDA's world building if Delta Galaxy brought a complete repository or just a selection based on the bloodnames that were a part of the galaxy when they joined Stone.  IIRC it was hazy about how much they might have shared genetic material or even how the Bloodhouses were handled (GB, HH, and Wolf were in the same boat) but that is something BT has neglected for most of the existence of the Clans.  Beyond that however, I do not recall any comments about copies of the legacies accompanying Rikkard even if his mission had Kev Rosse's blessing- just that Rosse was dead and no more Spirit Cat forces were expected to join them on their staging world.

So where does the legacies come from that the Protectorate used for their first generation of sibkos?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 07 July 2021, 12:41:41
We know that there were trueborn Nova Cats in the republic . Rikkard himself for example. After the conquest of Marik, some Spirit/Nova Cats from the republic joined the Protectorate (Even a few survivors from Irice Prefecture) It is quite possible that they brought with them both genetic samples and sibgroups from prefectures adjacent to the League. In any case there is some number of warriors with a Bloodname (there is definitely Nostra, Hardo, Bavros). And the genetic storage could be built with the help of Sea Foxes.
Marik is the center of the Fox ' operations in the League region. In any case, they built a genetic reprisotory here for themselves. And share it with the Cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 07 July 2021, 13:07:09
As for the protomechs. I very much doubt that Spirit Cats can use it at the moment. When a thread in the future is possible. Kisho escaped from Irice with a complete technical database. But at this moment, this is clearly not a priority for them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 July 2021, 14:07:25
We know that there were trueborn Nova Cats in the republic . Rikkard himself for example. After the conquest of Marik, some Spirit/Nova Cats from the republic joined the Protectorate (Even a few survivors from Irice Prefecture) It is quite possible that they brought with them both genetic samples and sibgroups from prefectures adjacent to the League. In any case there is some number of warriors with a Bloodname (there is definitely Nostra, Hardo, Bavros). And the genetic storage could be built with the help of Sea Foxes.

Problems with this . . .

Where is the genetic repository in the Republic before 3132?
     Best suggestion would be whatever world Kev Rosse is from but never said afaik.

Is the hypothetical (b/c it is never described let alone confirmed to exist) repository JUST cover the bloodnamed from Delta who went over to Stone?  or is it (more unlikely) a complete duplication of the Cat's main repository?
     The indication, based on the Mystic caste's development and Kishio's internal dialogue on Terra, is that their breeding programs followed divergent paths with little to no interaction.  This means the Spirit Cats are unlikely to have any legacies of bloodnamed warriors from the Nova Cats after the split even if they have a complete inventory of every bloodhouse up to that point.  If it is like other cases, the Wolves being the only other ones detailed afaik, the Clan Galaxies that went with Stone were 'de jure' Clans of their own- they had their own breeding programs, they had their own (limited) pool of Bloodnames, and their own 'toumans' in the form of enclave militias.  Which means they could have something like 70-125 total Bloodnames (Delta was a frontline galaxy) to form their council . . . and the Nova Cats have that many less of course.

I would not expect the Foxes to share a repository with the Cats- IMO it would be something more akin to Strana Mechty.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 07 July 2021, 16:30:29
I dont think there were Genetic Repositories in the Republic for either Nova Cats or Wolves? When was that stated? I only state these two as I can't remember ever seeing a Falcon, Bear or Horse group native to the Republic

I thought all Clan Trueborns were from the Nova Cats who then travelled into the Republic or were the freeborn children of trueborns allowed to claim the names by the Clan
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 07 July 2021, 16:33:26
Wish there had been a Handbook ROTS to explain stuff like this.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 07 July 2021, 16:55:45

I thought all Clan Trueborns were from the Nova Cats who then travelled into the Republic or were the freeborn children of trueborns allowed to claim the names by the Clan

 Many Spirit/Nova cats DA characters born in Republic space. And they are trueborns. Rikkard, Janis , Cox Devalis etc.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 07 July 2021, 16:59:46
Problems with this . . .

Where is the genetic repository in the Republic before 3132?
     Best suggestion would be whatever world Kev Rosse is from but never said afaik.

Is the hypothetical (b/c it is never described let alone confirmed to exist) repository JUST cover the bloodnamed from Delta who went over to Stone?  or is it (more unlikely) a complete duplication of the Cat's main repository?
     The indication, based on the Mystic caste's development and Kishio's internal dialogue on Terra, is that their breeding programs followed divergent paths with little to no interaction.  This means the Spirit Cats are unlikely to have any legacies of bloodnamed warriors from the Nova Cats after the split even if they have a complete inventory of every bloodhouse up to that point.  If it is like other cases, the Wolves being the only other ones detailed afaik, the Clan Galaxies that went with Stone were 'de jure' Clans of their own- they had their own breeding programs, they had their own (limited) pool of Bloodnames, and their own 'toumans' in the form of enclave militias.  Which means they could have something like 70-125 total Bloodnames (Delta was a frontline galaxy) to form their council . . . and the Nova Cats have that many less of course.

I would not expect the Foxes to share a repository with the Cats- IMO it would be something more akin to Strana Mechty.


The early Spirit Cats are descendants of the Delta. But besides them, the descendants of Alpha and Tau still lived in the republic. Which later could well join the Spirit Cats and Clan Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 07 July 2021, 20:09:46
iirc individual clans can create new bloodnames based on exceptional freeborns in their touman, it was just rarely used. (sarna cites warriors of the clans pg.39. this was used to create bloodhouse Magnusson in the Ghost Bears, and was one of the incentives given to Jaime and Joshua Wolf to recruit them as the leaders of the Wolf's Dragoons)
given the Spirit Cat origins, and their history, i could see them using that option to create new blood houses whole cloth from some of the IS born warriors that have been with them since the beginning, or which proved themselves against great odds.

combined with samples from known bloodlines within their forces (and possibly the Nova Cat survivors) they could probably get a eugenics program started easily enough.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 July 2021, 22:08:35
I dont think there were Genetic Repositories in the Republic for either Nova Cats or Wolves? When was that stated? I only state these two as I can't remember ever seeing a Falcon, Bear or Horse group native to the Republic

I thought all Clan Trueborns were from the Nova Cats who then travelled into the Republic or were the freeborn children of trueborns allowed to claim the names by the Clan

We had no Falcon enclaves ever described, nor did they have a splinter faction.  Cats, Wolves, Bears and Horses all had enclaves that fielded militias for the Standing Guard.  They had trueborns, sibkos, etc . . . which is why I asserted they were 'new' de facto Clans budded off the their parent Clans.

I said there was no listed repository- with trueborns, their own sibkos, and a lack of interaction between the Republic Clans & their parent Clans; it implies a repository of some degree.  The question is how much of the legacies they have on hand.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 08 July 2021, 02:34:57
For example:

Quote
A product of a Nova Cats eugenics program, Lenett Lossey was born to a small Clan enclave located on Ozawa. Though bred for the rigors of BattleMech warfare and raised with the ideals of the mystical Nova Cats in his heart, there was always something more to him that went beyond the norm for a trueborn warrior. Indeed, even before he won his first Trial of Position for the warrior caste,  Lenett demonstrated an innate ability to seduce and manipulate others. This ability has helped him advance his position over the years, including winning his Bloodname and a slot in the Shiva Keshik. Shrewd and politically astute, Lossey‘s methods have been limited mostly to benign deal making and effective speaking, talents he has raised to a veritable art form—for a Clan warrior.

Ozawa is now in the hands of the Draconis combine, but who knows what Spirit Cats managed to take out of there. And how many other worlds in other prefectures had similar ones "small clan enclave".



Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 08 July 2021, 03:44:00
Shitara had a large enclave as well also now in Combibe hands

The Cats helped develop one of my favourite VTOL the Strix on Shitara

You'd have thought Stoners relocation program would have put enclaves far from their point of origin

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 08 July 2021, 03:50:18
I think different galaxies had settlements in different prefectures. The basis of Spirit Cats was the Delta Galaxy and they are mainly from the third prefecture. It is unclear where the descendants of Alpha and Tau settled.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 14 July 2021, 01:20:03
There is a lot of information about Spirit Cats in Dark age PDA journals https://bg.battletech.com/downloads/   .So there is information about Spirit Cats enclave on the planet Marcus. This world is located quite close to Marik. And although it is now in the hands of the Wolves, the Cats have had enough years to completely migrate from it to Marik.

Quote
Spirit Cats Enclave, Outside McPherson, Marcus
Prefecture VIII, The Republic of the Sphere
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 July 2021, 09:15:36
Thing is you have to remember the date when that news article was released, when Rikkard gathered his strength to take Marik, and the chaos of Operation Hammerfall & forming the Protectorate.

Basically, what was on that world could have already joined the Protectorate way back when.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Gin on 24 August 2021, 14:42:16
I started reading heretic vision (?), the dark ages novel about clan nova cat and the draconis combine and something doesn't fully gel. The new phenotype of that can see the future is stated as having an incredibly high mortality rate. What exactly in their training is killing them? I mean seriously, do they ever go into details why so few manage to make it through training?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GreekFire on 24 August 2021, 14:52:34
I started reading heretic vision (?), the dark ages novel about clan nova cat and the draconis combine and something doesn't fully gel. The new phenotype of that can see the future is stated as having an incredibly high mortality rate. What exactly in their training is killing them? I mean seriously, do they ever go into details why so few manage to make it through training?

Heretic's Faith does go into that, yeah. Just keep at it, I don't want to spoil anything if you've only started the book.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 24 August 2021, 16:31:26
If I correctly understood the answer from a recent AMA, then we will see a new book about Nova Cats from Randall N.Bills)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 August 2021, 16:42:30
Yeah, I think it is supposed to address what happens as they fled the DC- the Kishio Mystery.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Gin on 25 August 2021, 09:48:00
Ohh that sounds really interesting, thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 30 August 2021, 01:05:38
One chapter in the" Hunting Season " tells about the battle for Marik. The Clan Protectorate ( Sea Foxes) is also present in other chapters.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 30 August 2021, 16:47:21
Spirit cats mechs mentioned in the book:
Koshi
Koshi 2
Mad cat 3
Shadow hawk
Grendel
Firestarter (Rikkard)

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 September 2021, 09:51:07
Do we have any indication of how much of the Spirit Cat production gets sold to the rest of the FWLM?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 September 2021, 10:09:22
Nope . . . BUT . . . did we see one of Petr Khalsa's proteges fighting the Regulans?  Star Captain Shane was a mechwarrior in the MWDA books IIRC.  Considering the star had two Tiburons, Adder, and . . . having trouble remembering what else was in the star.

Interesting that we saw more of the Sea Fox component of the Clan Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Guardian11 on 23 September 2021, 01:13:30
The other Mech mentioned in Shane's Star was a Cougar, they didn't mention the identity of the 5th Mech in the Star, but likely another light considering it was described as a light Star and all other Mechs were lights.

Also, I appreciated the description of the battle for Marik, since the added detail helped make the battle more clear.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 23 September 2021, 01:47:48
There are a decent handful of 'Mechs the fifth point could have been, up to and reasonably including a Dasher II.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 September 2021, 09:26:38
I thought it was three Tiburons, a Cougar and a Jenner?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 04 November 2021, 00:37:37
A list of fiction featuring Nova/Spirit Cats.

Novels about Nova cats:
Path of Glory by Randal N.Bills (Zane Nova Cat)
Heretic Faith by Randal N. Bills (Kisho Nova Cat)

Major involvement:
D.R.T., by James D. Long. Nova Cat as main antogonist.
Impetus of War, by Blaine Lee Pardoe.  One of the PoV (future Nova Cat Khan Santin West)
Forever Faithful, by Blaine Lee Pardoe.

Minor involvement:
Grave Covenant (Twilight of the Clans #2)
Sword of Sedition, by Loren L. Coleman (Kisho Nova Cat in few chapters)
Fortress Republic, by Loren L. Coleman. (Kisho Nova Cat in few chapters)

Spirit Cats:
Target of Opportunity, by Blaine Lee Pardoe. One of the PoV (Star captain Cox Devalis)
Pandora's Gambit, by Randall N. Bills. One of the main PoV (Rikkard Nova Cat )
To Ride the Chimera, by Kevin Killiany.-again Rikkard
Hunting season by Philip A.Lee - minor involvement (one of the chapter about battle on Marik in 3147)

Short stories:
Whispering Death (2011) by Philip A. Lee - BattleCorpse story
Hunter or Hunted, by Randall N. Bills (fourth BattleCorps anthology, Fire for Effect, in 2013)
Shadow of Death by Randall N. Bills ( Battle of Tukayyid series)

Others:
Wolf Pack, by Robert N. Charrette, - abtakha elemental Elson Nova Cat as main antogonist

I might have missed something. Please correct me if you noticed this
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 November 2021, 09:21:08
Lack of MWDA novel representation for the Spirit Cats is surprising considering they were the 'winning' faction of the time.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 04 November 2021, 20:15:02
Lack of MWDA novel representation for the Spirit Cats is surprising considering they were the 'winning' faction of the time.

At the time of MWDA there was quite a lot of representation of Spirit Cats outside of fiction. There was a lot of material on the MWDA site.
It got much worse after. For all Cats...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 November 2021, 09:16:28
Yeah, I just meant when you looked at the pre-Fortress & League story arcs we had a single book really featuring the Cats- and even that was shared with Tucker/Alexi/Republic/ComStar.  The Steel Wolves had 4 . . . sadly 3 were Del-Rio, so really 1.5? . . . Swordsworn had 2? which did not really share the book with . . . Highlanders had quite the representation . . . Bannson showed up in the Liao invasion arc but his Raiders were generic bad guys.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Longstrider on 11 November 2021, 23:20:47
Is there a similar list for shark foxes?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: TheDenogginizer85 on 13 November 2021, 20:29:01
Other than being mostly freeborn natives commanded by Clan Warriors, has there been any other information on the 1st and Second Protectorate Guardians?

Kind of curious what their camo schemes and unit compositions are like.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 13 November 2021, 23:40:28
Other than being mostly freeborn natives commanded by Clan Warriors, has there been any other information on the 1st and Second Protectorate Guardians?

Kind of curious what their camo schemes and unit compositions are like.

Only the information that is in fm3145 and a couple of notable pilots from the recguides. There is quite little information at the moment about the clan protectorate. I hope that the "Empire alone" will tell us something.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 13 November 2021, 23:54:07
Is there a similar list for shark foxes?

Novels:
Hunters of the deep by Randall N. Bills. (Sea Fox novel)
Pandora's Gambit, by Randall N. Bills (minor involvement)
To Ride the Chimera, by Kevin Killiany
Hunting season by Philip A.Lee





Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 14 November 2021, 00:07:46
Hunting Season features a very cool Sea Fox naval battle in chapter 13.  The Regulans fear the Clans so much they...do what Regulans do when they're scared.  Read it and find out!  It's a pretty good novel all in all.  It even helped to turn me into a FWL fan.

Edit: the Spirit Cats are also involved in a couple of chapters.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 14 November 2021, 00:46:05
I wonder how many forces are in the composition of Shiva Keshik in 3147? Because they were able to defeat three battalions of Regulan Hussars (two from the fourth and one from the thirteenth). And these are clearly not two trinary from Era digest:Dark age.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Guardian11 on 14 November 2021, 01:16:05
Shiva Keshik's 2 Trinaries might have been what was initially bid to defend against the Regulans, which is why they were being pushed back all the way to the palace, but after Col. Mejia broke zellbrigen so egregiously the Spirit Cats decided they didn't have to honor the bid, so the Purifier Cluster may have came in to the fight as well. 5-6 Trinaries not bound by zellbrigen could probably defeat a Regiment. It could be that Shiva Keshik was beefed up to full Cluster strength.

On the subject of the Sea Fox Light Star in Hunting Season. I am going to paint up that Star. I already have the 2 Tiburons, Adder, and Cougar. What should I choose for the 5th point member. I am thinking either a Hellion, Arctic Cheetah, Morrigan, or Jenner/IIC which would do y'all think I should go with?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 14 November 2021, 02:19:48
Shiva Keshik's 2 Trinaries might have been what was initially bid to defend against the Regulans, which is why they were being pushed back all the way to the palace, but after Col. Mejia broke zellbrigen so egregiously the Spirit Cats decided they didn't have to honor the bid, so the Purifier Cluster may have came in to the fight as well. 5-6 Trinaries not bound by zellbrigen could probably defeat a Regiment. It could be that Shiva Keshik was beefed up to full Cluster strength.

At that time, the Purifers were sitting in the defense of Malket against the First Regulan Hussars. Shiva Keshik had one trinary in reserve (Tokala Nostra from TRO Golden Era). At the beginning of the fight Keshik were driving the Fourth back and only the arrival of the Thirteenth saved the Fourth and forced Shiva Keshik to pull back .
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 14 November 2021, 07:54:50
Also depends on how strong the regiment is.  If that regiment is a single battalion of Mechs with the rest armour and infantry that would Level the playing field significantly
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Longstrider on 15 November 2021, 10:37:38
Yep, I read the four FWL/Steiners/Protectorate novels and Hunting Season. Quite enjoyable all around; I'll check out Hunters of the Deep. But I do hope Empire Alone gives us lots of good juicy stuff in the area.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: TheDenogginizer85 on 29 November 2021, 12:43:39
I know this was going back ways, but was reading through the thread.

As for Kisho... Alaric likes to use people and symbols. Kisho is in fact a trueborn Kurita (as Alaric trueborn Steiner-Davion) who will be loyal to the Ilkhan who revived his clan. Given the potential war with Draconis Combine, he could be very useful to Alaric. And if you've read the DA books, you know that Alaric and Kisho already know each other.


 Although it has never been confirmed I think it was claimed that Minoru's mother is a descendant of the Camerons somehow. If that is confirmed at some point to be true, and whether Kisho wants it or not, he'd have legitimate claim to being First Lord.  I can't see Alaric giving up his title and bowing before anyone, especially someone from an abjured and near-extinct clan and Alaric would probably want him dead.

 Reading through Heretic's Faith again, Minoru definitely seemed to have some sort of long game plan going that involved more than simply trying to ensure the Nova Cats survival.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 29 November 2021, 14:13:01
I know this was going back ways, but was reading through the thread.


 Although it has never been confirmed I think it was claimed that Minoru's mother is a descendant of the Camerons somehow. If that is confirmed at some point to be true, and whether Kisho wants it or not, he'd have legitimate claim to being First Lord.  I can't see Alaric giving up his title and bowing before anyone, especially someone from an abjured and near-extinct clan and Alaric would probably want him dead.

 Reading through Heretic's Faith again, Minoru definitely seemed to have some sort of long game plan going that involved more than simply trying to ensure the Nova Cats survival.

Even if Kisho knows about it, he's not crazy enough to claim the throne of the First Lord. He himself will never declare the right to the throne of Kurita, but there he may turn out to be a combination of different circumstances. Yori Kurita has no heirs and IlClan will need a loyal leader of the Combine.
But the first Lord? Impossible. Who will support him?
Minoru's long gameplay could consist in the survival of not only Nova Cats, but also Kurita's bloodline. Just in case of what happened in the Dark Ages. After all, the Mystic Caste is a project not only of Nova Cats, but also of the O5P.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 November 2021, 14:27:21
While Kisho has Minoru blood, his refugees might have a better claimant.  Emi and a child died when the Cats went down- but was it HER child?  We have had the Dracs in the past put a fake child in place of a Kurita knowing the most likely outcome would be the child is killed.

Or THE Warlord could have taken the child to be his next pawn if Yori gets too free.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 29 November 2021, 14:35:44
While Kisho has Minoru blood, his refugees might have a better claimant.  Emi and a child died when the Cats went down- but was it HER child?  We have had the Dracs in the past put a fake child in place of a Kurita knowing the most likely outcome would be the child is killed.

Or THE Warlord could have taken the child to be his next pawn if Yori gets too free.

I also think that replacing Emi's child with a random child from the Mystic Caste was not a big problem for Nova Cats. But even if he is alive, he is now 9-11 years old. And Kisho in this case acts as his adoptive father.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 29 November 2021, 16:53:19
I think we had 'Replaced the child with a stand in' a couple times already. What's one more?
Have we ever had anyone on the DC end of things get genetic confirmation that either of them is dead for realsies?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: VensersRevenge on 29 November 2021, 17:12:05
Or she could have given birth to twins
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 29 November 2021, 18:04:15
While Kisho has Minoru blood, his refugees might have a better claimant.  Emi and a child died when the Cats went down- but was it HER child?  We have had the Dracs in the past put a fake child in place of a Kurita knowing the most likely outcome would be the child is killed.

Or THE Warlord could have taken the child to be his next pawn if Yori gets too free.

Interesting idea so Kisho turns up on Alarics door step "say ilKhan you want to see the Combine subjugated? I want my Clan back, and I've got this kid...'

Alaric "Erm... Freebirth?"

Kisho "one with Kurita Royal blood"

Alaric "you tried the Civil War angle once..."

Kisho "who said anything about being Civil?"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Decoy on 02 December 2021, 15:28:30
Well, the Wolves could use the Brahe bloodline if they want to try that.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 24 December 2021, 15:51:37
No Nova cat mech production for us  :'( And Nova Cat is a kind of record holder . Being the totem mech of the clan and being present in three tech manuals, it does not have a single notable mechwarrior from its own clan :)   
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 24 December 2021, 18:55:05
No Nova cat mech production for us  :'( And Nova Cat is a kind of record holder . Being the totem mech of the clan and being present in three tech manuals, it does not have a single notable mechwarrior from its own clan :)   

I hope the Combine didn't get it  I'd rather it was a dead design

I'll buy these post Xmas either way
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wantec on 25 December 2021, 01:41:58
No Nova cat mech production for us  :'( And Nova Cat is a kind of record holder . Being the totem mech of the clan and being present in three tech manuals, it does not have a single notable mechwarrior from its own clan :)   
As the one that wrote the Nova Cat entry, I'll say upfront I was very constrained by the wordcount and I was given a notable pilot to use. I made sure to work in some notables in the battle history, but there was not much room to work.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 25 December 2021, 03:31:37
As the one that wrote the Nova Cat entry, I'll say upfront I was very constrained by the wordcount and I was given a notable pilot to use. I made sure to work in some notables in the battle history, but there was not much room to work.

Thank you and other authors ! Great job in any case, all the wishes of the fans will still not be fulfilled within the framework of one project. :)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 December 2021, 17:14:32
As the one that wrote the Nova Cat entry, I'll say upfront I was very constrained by the wordcount and I was given a notable pilot to use. I made sure to work in some notables in the battle history, but there was not much room to work.

Kickstarter entry?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wantec on 25 December 2021, 17:57:19
Kickstarter entry?
Pretty sure. In all my writing for the Rec Guides I only had existing omnis, nothing new. I'm pretty sure each time I had at least one KS pilot.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 06 January 2022, 13:07:19
Note:  I haven't read the previous 33 pages so if there was 10 pages on this, sorry and I will go read those.

So question.  What's everyone's opinion on how long the Protectorate is going to last?   Will they join the Nova Cats get reborn?  Will they stay with the FWL?  Will they Join Forces with Alaric?   Will they become the Leagues new Andorrans?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 06 January 2022, 13:12:31
I think the Clan Protectorate will last.  I hope the Sea Foxes use their position to slowly take over the FWL.

They have a long way to go towards this, but it can be done.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 January 2022, 13:16:45
The League has a good amount of Clan integration.  First you have the Protectorate which has seats/votes in parliament.  Then you have the Sea Foxes involved heavily in the League economy, they got their foot in the door for that based on the Protectorate joining the neo League.  They even executed some semi-sanction policy on their own when they dealt with the Regulans.  Finally, you had Jessika hand them over ComStar's assets as part of a takeover.  IMO they come right after the Ghost Bear Dominion and Raven Alliance as far as IS/Clan integration . . . granted it is a big step between the those two and the League, but it is another chasm between the League & LC/DC let alone the CC/FS.

Honestly, most of it is going to come down to what happens in Empire Alone.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 06 January 2022, 15:59:33
Note:  I haven't read the previous 33 pages so if there was 10 pages on this, sorry and I will go read those.

So question.  What's everyone's opinion on how long the Protectorate is going to last?   Will they join the Nova Cats get reborn?  Will they stay with the FWL?  Will they Join Forces with Alaric?   Will they become the Leagues new Andorrans?

I think Kisho and Co will return from wherever they currently are.  He'll submit himself and his troops to serve the ilClan. 

Alaric will turn that offer to reverse the Abjuration and see the Nova Cats Reborn if Kisho can turn the Protectorate to his cause.

Kisho will do what he did with Kev Rosse and call for a meeting either Kisho will fight for the right to command the Nova Cats or he'll be assassinated leading to his forces merging with the Protectorates

The Nova/ Spirit Cats in the Protectorate in service of the ilClan, I think the Sea Foxes forces in the Protectorate are too involved in the running of the state and instead of remaining could end up rolled into the Reborn Clan

If Kisho is assassinated let's say by the Andruiens or Regulans... then the Nova/Spirit Cats have a new target

I'm not convinced the Nova Cats are born again.  I think the Spirit Cats have made too much of a mark to be lost and perhaps the last heroic days of the Nova Cats were just that

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 06 January 2022, 16:29:43
If the FWL joins the new Star League, they will need to allocate part of their forces to the Star League defense forces. Who is better than the Clan Protectorate troops for the Star League founded by the clans?
And Spirit Cats = Nova Сats. Two different ways of development of one society.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 19 January 2022, 23:05:56
Nova Cats! 

Move to the Clan Protectorate!  Forget canon, and take your table top games here.  Plenty of room to grow. 

And with the re-emergence of the Smoke Jaguars, as well as the Falcons being cut down to size, plenty of fair Clan competition now exists.

Need equipment?  Spina Khanate is here for your every need.  Have no fear about that.  Plenty of Omnis to go around.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Middcore on 19 January 2022, 23:13:46
If the FWL joins the new Star League

*retches*

This would convince me to abandon the faction when even literally breaking up the faction didn't.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 January 2022, 10:06:15
My 4th Regulan Hussar company appreciates the Supernova 5 taken as isorla from Marik.  I look forward to your factory releasing a 5b where the Coolant Pods are swapped for a RHS, so the captured SRN can be converted.

Anyone else play with one?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: MarikMilitaMan on 03 February 2022, 17:48:18
*retches*

This would convince me to abandon the faction when even literally breaking up the faction didn't.

We've been in a Star League twice before, we can stomach a third go around, and look how the first wound up, can see hidden wars springing up again, especially in the league.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 February 2022, 12:05:52
Revisiting an old discussion,
I was playing around with TRO Golden Century units recently and made an interesting discovery...although I'll be highly surprised if no one else has noticed it by now. Did you know that if you replace the Qasar's engine with an XXL it's actually at maximized tonnage for the thrust? Sure it now costs something like 80 billion, but hey, if the Diamond Sharks want to showcase the things AND gain some good will with the 'Cats in the Protectorate? Fooling around with a design, may end up posting it in the appropriate forum later once I decide on a name. Considering calling it either the 'Yi' or 'Perry' currently. The 'LeMay' if I want to be extra vindictive in naming it. Can you strafe with plasma cannon?

Bringing the Vision Quest, fully modernized, back to production would be a nice symbolic gesture too, although I'm less clear what I'd do with that. It's a pretty solid design, even without all the traditional weight saving gear, and leaving it that way actually makes it a decent 'budget' choice for Clan gear.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 04 February 2022, 18:00:01
Both of those would be nice to see the Qasar with Laser reflective armour the Vision Quest with Ballistic Reinforced just to annoy the Combine
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 20 May 2022, 15:00:48
The "Redemption Right" contains several spoilers to what awaits the Clan Protectorate in the upcoming "Empire Alone":
- Silver Hawks attack Stewart and several other worlds of the Wolf Empire
- Petr Kalasa makes a deal with the Wolves: The Clan Protectorate helps repel these attacks in exchange for access to the Wolf's HPGs.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 20 May 2022, 15:37:21
- Petr Kalasa makes a deal with the Wolves: The Clan Protectorate helps repel these attacks in exchange for access to the Wolf's HPGs.

Boooo!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: MarikMilitaMan on 22 May 2022, 02:24:06
Boooo!

Yep.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrianDavion on 22 May 2022, 13:08:19
this is what happens when you take a viper into your bossom.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 22 May 2022, 14:52:43
The "Redemption Right" contains several spoilers to what awaits the Clan Protectorate in the upcoming "Empire Alone":
- Silver Hawks attack Stewart and several other worlds of the Wolf Empire
- Petr Kalasa makes a deal with the Wolves: The Clan Protectorate helps repel these attacks in exchange for access to the Wolf's HPGs.


You forgot:

SPOILER FOR THE BIG SURPRISE ENDING OF REDEMPTION RIFT
They'll be getting of Alaric Ward's children which will give them some interesting bargaining chips.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 24 May 2022, 06:47:31
That sounds either extremly shortsighted going against your "liege" or rather crafty helping your liege. Not sure what the final outcome will be
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 May 2022, 06:56:17
That sounds either extremly shortsighted going against your "liege" or rather crafty helping your liege. Not sure what the final outcome will be

The Silverhawks, at that time, jumped off before Nikol was onboard for it.  Further, we do not know anything about it besides what Petr told the Star Colonel.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: MarikMilitaMan on 24 May 2022, 07:30:06
So it could be a ruse between the Silver Hawks and Protectorate to reclaim some worlds on the cheap?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 May 2022, 09:03:05
Or Nikol's behest to reign in a rogue group of units, a sort of League tradition, before she is ready to commit to warfare with the Empire.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 08 June 2022, 12:02:38
Clan Protectorate has a section (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=100&EraId=257) in the Master Unit List.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 June 2022, 12:06:55
Clan Protectorate has a section (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=100&EraId=257) in the Master Unit List.
  • Any idea where the logo comes from?
  • Anyone know how to separate out the general IS Clan information?

Probably a Empire Alone sneak peak . . .

Not sure separating out IS Clan general would matter- you are talking chassis so generic they could have come from Republic AF sources (aka, Spirit Cat formation), salvage from the battle for Marik, or just Sea Fox sources (which would also be purchases for those other sources).  I mean, what the Protectorate itself would produce would end up on the IS Clan General IMO since they do not produce anything that Sea Foxes do not take a share of to sell onward- like the Supernova 5 as an example.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 08 June 2022, 12:25:49
  • Anyone know how to separate out the general IS Clan information?
You need to make a unit search that contains only Clan Protectorate faction, along with any other filters you deem relevant. Can't do that via faction list.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=100
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 08 June 2022, 12:49:45
It's nice to see the Thunderbird II lives on along with the Void (Nova Cat) BA.

Also: Tortoise II!? How...?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Sartris on 08 June 2022, 13:39:10
Clan Protectorate has a section (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=100&EraId=257) in the Master Unit List.
  • Any idea where the logo comes from?  And what its composed of, I recognize the Dagger Star
  • Anyone know how to separate out the general IS Clan information?

1) it appeared in bed, not unlike the horse's head in The Godfather, on a thumbdrive with a note that says "use this one"
2) as empyrus said, you must use the UNITS tab. it gives you some super specific options like "which units with an intro date from the star league era are being used by filtvelt in the dark age?"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wantec on 08 June 2022, 13:58:01
Clan Protectorate has a section (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=100&EraId=257) in the Master Unit List.
  • Any idea where the logo comes from?  And what its composed of, I recognize the Dagger Star
  • Anyone know how to separate out the general IS Clan information?
That may not be the logo of the whole Clan Protectorate. It is the logo of the Protectorate Guardians found on pg 55 of Era Report 3145. The one in the Era Report is black & white and there's no description of it that I saw. My guess is the stripes are alternating primary colors of the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes to go along with the Purple Eagle.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 June 2022, 14:29:39
I still circle back around to the Protectorate/Cats do not produce any war material (as far as we know) the Sea Foxes, by rights/agreement, do not get a share of as evidenced by the Supernova 5, Firestorm, Ostscout, etc.  Since what the Sea Foxes sell makes up most of IS Clan General, the lists would not be different (yet).
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 08 June 2022, 20:01:12
it appeared in bed, not unlike the horse's head in The Godfather, on a thumbdrive with a note that says "use this one"

Thought it might have been more of a fall off the back of the drop ship situation.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 08 June 2022, 22:41:51
I still circle back around to the Protectorate/Cats do not produce any war material (as far as we know) the Sea Foxes, by rights/agreement, do not get a share of as evidenced by the Supernova 5, Firestorm, Ostscout, etc.  Since what the Sea Foxes sell makes up most of IS Clan General, the lists would not be different (yet).

I feel like there are some "not"s in here that are not accurate, because the Protectorate does have domestic production and the Sea Foxes do get a share in the same way they get a share of everything else by trialing or contracting for it.  The Protectorate military is also made up of significant portions of native FWL residents, the whole polity is less than an IS generation old and trade between FWL member states is not so much reasonable to infer as it is unreasonable to suggest that it isn't commonplace.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 June 2022, 23:34:31
I feel like there are some "not"s in here that are not accurate, because the Protectorate does have domestic production and the Sea Foxes do get a share in the same way they get a share of everything else by trialing or contracting for it.  The Protectorate military is also made up of significant portions of native FWL residents, the whole polity is less than an IS generation old and trade between FWL member states is not so much reasonable to infer as it is unreasonable to suggest that it isn't commonplace.

Okay, so what do they produce the Foxes do not sell?  Everything that appeared in the RecGuides was for sale by the Foxes.  The 'C' convert of the . . . Tempest? was referenced and never given a TRO-style entry nor RS, so it is not in the MUL.  The Inner Sphere production that was on those worlds would not count since they would not be IS Clan General.

The one thing I found on their list that was Clan that would not be on the IS Clan General is not produced there either- the Tiburon, which among the Clan Protectorate forces is still a Fox-only item so far.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 10 June 2022, 00:41:20
I misread you a little bit, but I do feel compelled to say that the RecGuides' introductions say that the Foxes can get anything in them, not that they have everything in them at all times.  Otherwise they'd have availability with every unit with a RG source and that's demonstrably not true.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Empyrus on 10 June 2022, 07:44:26
Seems like a case of "If you can pay enough, we can get you anything in our catalog"

Makes me wonder if the Warhawk is the most expensive thing in RGs, since they're made far away and implicitly the Scorpions aren't really interested in selling.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wantec on 10 June 2022, 12:12:09
Seems like a case of "If you can pay enough, we can get you anything in our catalog"

Makes me wonder if the Warhawk is the most expensive thing in RGs, since they're made far away and implicitly the Scorpions aren't really interested in selling.
Although there should be old Warhawks floating around the IS as another avenue for acquisitions. I would say some of the newer 'Mechs might be harder to get, whether it's the Alpha Wolf, or the new Scorpion Omnis, etc.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 June 2022, 12:37:59
C'mon, everyone knows the easiest way to get a Warhawk or one of those new Scorpion Omnis . . .

Fox merchant- "Look what I have here Scorpion warrior, a Star League era Marauder- you know it by the serial number!- that I am willing to trade for your mech.  Now you too can be part of history and use this artifact just as the ancient and glorious Star League."

Scorpion warrior- "Is it really a Star League Marauder?  Looks a bit different than our databanks say, quiaff?"

Fox merchant- "I understand what you are asking Mechwarrior, but this Star League Marauder fought with Alexander Kerensky, through all four Succession Wars, and even saw action among the Draconis Combine when the Smoke Jaguars invaded.  During that time, it's abilities declined until the coming of the Clans when it's combat power was brought back towards Star League standards.  Think of the history it has seen, which you will now become a part of- all I need in exchange is your Warhawk."
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 24 June 2022, 07:37:31
C'mon, everyone knows the easiest way to get a Warhawk or one of those new Scorpion Omnis . . .

Fox merchant- "Look what I have here Scorpion warrior, a Star League era Marauder- you know it by the serial number!- that I am willing to trade for your mech.  Now you too can be part of history and use this artifact just as the ancient and glorious Star League."

Scorpion warrior- "Is it really a Star League Marauder?  Looks a bit different than our databanks say, quiaff?"

Fox merchant- "I understand what you are asking Mechwarrior, but this Star League Marauder fought with Alexander Kerensky, through all four Succession Wars, and even saw action among the Draconis Combine when the Smoke Jaguars invaded.  During that time, it's abilities declined until the coming of the Clans when it's combat power was brought back towards Star League standards.  Think of the history it has seen, which you will now become a part of- all I need in exchange is your Warhawk."

Reminds me of that first Grasshopper from the Legacy collection.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: nckestrel on 24 June 2022, 08:25:22
C'mon, everyone knows the easiest way to get a Warhawk or one of those new Scorpion Omnis . . .

At least the merchant wasn't brazen enough to claim it was Kerensky's own Orion Marauder..
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 June 2022, 10:42:54
At least the merchant wasn't brazen enough to claim it was Kerensky's own Orion Marauder..

Last one that tried that was challenged to a Circle of Equals for their dezgra behavior . . . they and their holdings were liquidated.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 24 June 2022, 11:22:51
I saw a picture of maps on Facebook the Clan Protectorate was bigger in the second map and shaded differetly to the FWL (shade was a mix of wolf colour and marik colour stripes)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrianDavion on 24 June 2022, 20:47:18
I saw a picture of maps on Facebook the Clan Protectorate was bigger in the second map and shaded differetly to the FWL (shade was a mix of wolf colour and marik colour stripes)

and thus did Marik learn the dark age lesson of "NEVER TRUST A CLANNER"

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 25 June 2022, 00:04:59
and thus did Marik learn the dark age lesson of "NEVER TRUST A CLANNER"

As far as can be judged from the last book, the Clan Protectorate  did not betray the FWL. The Silver Hawk raids were not sanctioned by the league parliament
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Sartris on 25 June 2022, 00:45:59
and thus did Marik learn the dark age lesson of "NEVER TRUST A CLANNER"

ironic, since the conventional wisdom of the FWL is to never trust anyone, even yourself.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 27 June 2022, 03:04:53

As far as can be judged from the last book, the Clan Protectorate  did not betray the FWL. The Silver Hawk raids were not sanctioned by the league parliament


Funny part is the Sea Foxes interdicted Regulan space after Sherryl's husband died / was murdered without sanctions from the FWL goverment. No one cared enough to censure the Protectorate as it was beneficial. Maybe a bad precedent
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 27 June 2022, 06:52:58
and thus did Marik learn the dark age lesson of "NEVER TRUST A CLANNER"

I would have said don't stand too close to a Nova Cat. If you see a black one, throw a pinch of salt over you shoulder.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 08 July 2022, 17:44:21
Protectorate divided :D
P.S. After Tamar  Rising I was hoping that "Empire Alone" would tell us at least something about the internal life of the Clan Protectorate. But not a word about it...  :'(
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 08 July 2022, 17:48:52
After Tamar  Rising I was hoping that "Empire Alone" would tell us at least something about the internal life of the Clan Protectorate. But not a word about it...  :'(


There is a bit about being torn over loyalties to the FWL or the Ilclan. Not quite a description of what is going on. But, they did get a bit of spotlight.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 08 July 2022, 18:04:59
We've got a RAT boys! It's not just two lines in the middle of the FWL table anymore.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 09 July 2022, 04:43:19
We've got a RAT boys! It's not just two lines in the middle of the FWL table anymore.

Yes, and quite good. The only thing that upsets is the absence of a Nova Cat mech in it. The presence of a Sphinx pleases.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 09 July 2022, 04:51:13
What do you think will happen next?
Rikkard Nova Cat and Spirit Cats want to be on the side of the FWL. Sea Foxes, Julietta and Nova Cat provisionals want to be on the side of the IlClan. I hope we won't see a civil war here
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 09 July 2022, 13:41:27
What do you think will happen next?
Rikkard Nova Cat and Spirit Cats want to be on the side of the FWL. Sea Foxes, Julietta and Nova Cat provisionals want to be on the side of the IlClan. I hope we won't see a civil war here

We are in League space. What do YOU think will happen?

and it seems fragmenting is the general order of the day after the Ilclan trial. Much easier to defeat your neighbours when they are broken into pieces beforehand  ::)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 13 July 2022, 18:05:59
What do you think will happen next?
Rikkard Nova Cat and Spirit Cats want to be on the side of the FWL. Sea Foxes, Julietta and Nova Cat provisionals want to be on the side of the IlClan. I hope we won't see a civil war here

My guess is that Rikkard will need to put Julletta down like he did Janis....   After all Juilletta learned that she doesn't have what it takes to learn a star nation.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 14 July 2022, 06:30:32
What do you think will happen next?
Rikkard Nova Cat and Spirit Cats want to be on the side of the FWL. Sea Foxes, Julietta and Nova Cat provisionals want to be on the side of the IlClan. I hope we won't see a civil war here
I think that the Protectorate will continue to play both sides of the issue.  The Nova Cats were in this position before and made the mistake of choosing only one side.  The Council realizes just how dangerous the situation is, so they are trying to mollify both sides.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 14 July 2022, 10:13:18
Getting a bit tired of the Cats always picking the losing side here, to be honest. Let them get one clear win for once. Frankly, I'd have thought the Nova Cats proper would have learned their lesson about choosing sides at all, it always bites them later. But it's not like the Clans have tended to be good at long term thinking.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Ruger on 14 July 2022, 11:05:24
Getting a bit tired of the Cats always picking the losing side here, to be honest. Let them get one clear win for once. Frankly, I'd have thought the Nova Cats proper would have learned their lesson about choosing sides at all, it always bites them later. But it's not like the Clans have tended to be good at long term thinking.

“All of this has happened before. It will happen again.”

Seems to be a mantra of nuBSG Cylons, as well as many factions within BTech.

Ruger
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dr. Banzai on 14 July 2022, 11:21:17
Getting a bit tired of the Cats always picking the losing side here, to be honest. Let them get one clear win for once. Frankly, I'd have thought the Nova Cats proper would have learned their lesson about choosing sides at all, it always bites them later. But it's not like the Clans have tended to be good at long term thinking.
Personally, I don't think The FWL is the losing side here. Yes, the Sea Foxes are going to stay a power to be reckoned with, but they are going to lose a bit of their bite in order to be the suppliers for the rest of the factions. And I still think the Wolves bit off way more than they can chew by going for a victory that is both pyrrhic and mostly symbolic. He might be able to hold Terra for a few years, but ultimately he's going to wind up like Stone and the WoB before him.

Focht had it in the right, Terra is a symbol without any real power.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 14 July 2022, 11:25:32
I don't think the FWL is the losing side either, but the Nova Cat Provisionals have already declared for the ilClan and gone rogue so...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 14 July 2022, 11:55:38
I think that the Protectorate will continue to play both sides of the issue.  The Nova Cats were in this position before and made the mistake of choosing only one side.  The Council realizes just how dangerous the situation is, so they are trying to mollify both sides.

Kisho is going to undoubtably show up again making our current two way issue into a three way.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 14 July 2022, 13:55:05
Kisho is going to undoubtably show up again making our current two way issue into a three way.

Interestingly neither Kisho or Rikkard hold a Bloodname so neither will have that going for them

Rikkard holds rank but Kisho apparently has the Nova Cat Genetic Repository so...

Rikkard new Khan, Kisho the no Oathmaster, Kisho overseeing Rikkard's Trial of Bloodright?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 14 July 2022, 14:31:07
Are the Nova Cat elements being presumptuous about the ilClan anyway? They were abjured after all. Alaric has mixed feelings about that stuff.
OTOH the Sea Foxes can claim rogue Khanate and play both sides. Especially as the should have good intel of the strength of both sides.

Pulling a Northwind and sitting it out for a year may be the best option.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 14 July 2022, 14:44:37
Kisho is going to undoubtably show up again making our current two way issue into a three way.

Or leadership of the Clan Protectorate gets so divided that it presents an opportunity for Kisho (or someone) to conquer.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 July 2022, 15:06:56
We also do not know Kishio shows up in the Protectorate . . . he might end up going right to Terra.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 14 July 2022, 16:11:32
Why do we think Kisho is coming back in the first place? It's possible he and his exiles skedaddled to the Periphery somewhere to live on their own terms much like the Fidelis did in their early days. I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to come back.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 July 2022, 17:13:38
Because he is a Legend of the ilClan era . . . basically means he has to do SOMETHING significant for that period, and the last confirmed time we saw him was in Dark Age . . . which is not where he was a Legend.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 14 July 2022, 18:45:06
And that something significant might take place outside the sphere. Just look at the Scorpion Empire; they've been coming up aces on the fringes.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrianDavion on 14 July 2022, 21:35:56
And that something significant might take place outside the sphere. Just look at the Scorpion Empire; they've been coming up aces on the fringes.


yeah but notice the scorpions didn't get any characters in legends? Battletech has always been pretty inner sphere centric.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Flaresnake on 14 July 2022, 21:47:50

yeah but notice the scorpions didn't get any characters in legends? Battletech has always been pretty inner sphere centric.

That is true but such a waste of an interesting and unique location
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 15 July 2022, 14:36:13
Why do we think Kisho is coming back in the first place? It's possible he and his exiles skedaddled to the Periphery somewhere to live on their own terms much like the Fidelis did in their early days. I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to come back.
Because they didnt have time to bring any other infrastructure with them, and unlike the Fidelis, dont have a major power service as their sugar daddy. They figuratively just had the clothes off their backs.

And honestly 'escaped in the nick of time with the genetic repository' is a pretty big plot hook what with the Protectorate right there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 24 July 2022, 10:09:34
We've got a RAT boys! It's not just two lines in the middle of the FWL table anymore.

I am a little bummed that the Protectorate RAT is so Clan TechBase heavy. 

I was hoping for some old Republic Tech or at least a some hold over smattering of FWLs IS Mechs.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 July 2022, 17:59:22
The Spirit Cats have had RATs, and FM3145 had a FWL sub-faction bit.  But by 3151, they have had nearly 10 years to be established and with the Foxes providing a lot of support to create Clan production . . . for a slice of that production too.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 25 July 2022, 15:30:55
I am a little bummed that the Protectorate RAT is so Clan TechBase heavy. 

I was hoping for some old Republic Tech or at least a some hold over smattering of FWLs IS Mechs.

Maybe a 3160 field manual will roll around with some third line clan forces for you. They'll have some solohma non-trueborn forces eventually...

If the wolves don't eat us.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 27 July 2022, 08:45:11
Maybe a 3160 field manual will roll around with some third line clan forces for you. They'll have some solohma non-trueborn forces eventually...

If the wolves don't eat us.

 Does Nova/Spirit Cats have a solahma? They are historically much more tolerant towards the old warriors than the rest of the clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CJC070 on 27 July 2022, 09:23:44
Maybe a 3160 field manual will roll around with some third line clan forces for you. They'll have some solohma non-trueborn forces eventually...

If the wolves don't eat us.

I think we will only see front and second line forces any more and it becomes overwhelming.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 27 July 2022, 11:39:52
I don't think that they have the numbers to make the solahma distinction.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Scotty on 27 July 2022, 19:46:53
If Tamar Rising and Empire Alone have taught us (or the Inner Sphere Clans) anything, it should definitely be to not underestimate an old man in a profession where men die young.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 14 August 2022, 03:36:47
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech/products/battletech-legends-pandoras-gambit-by-randall-n-bills

A Rikkard mech with the Nova Cat emblem. Most likely a mistake, but it's funny considering the dispute about Spirit Cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 August 2022, 12:55:21
It is the Shadow Hawk IIC he used in that book . . . but TPTB switched him back to a Firestarter like he had in the beginning of MWDA.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 August 2022, 18:43:50
Why do we think Kisho is coming back in the first place? It's possible he and his exiles skedaddled to the Periphery somewhere to live on their own terms much like the Fidelis did in their early days. I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to come back.

That's where the clans came from. >.>
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 18 August 2022, 11:29:54
Because they didnt have time to bring any other infrastructure with them, and unlike the Fidelis, dont have a major power service as their sugar daddy. They figuratively just had the clothes off their backs.

And honestly 'escaped in the nick of time with the genetic repository' is a pretty big plot hook what with the Protectorate right there.

Petr Kalasa is playing the Devlin Stone role for the Spirit Cats.  The Spina Khanate / Sea Foxes as a whole have been pretty aggressive in terms of helping the Protectorate expand into a full blown Mircostate.   I feel like of all the known unknown plot hooks we have floating around for the current era that a plurality of them are swirling around the Protectorate.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 18 August 2022, 12:29:27
Petr Kalasa is playing the Devlin Stone role for the Spirit Cats.  The Spina Khanate / Sea Foxes as a whole have been pretty aggressive in terms of helping the Protectorate expand into a full blown Mircostate.   I feel like of all the known unknown plot hooks we have floating around for the current era that a plurality of them are swirling around the Protectorate.

Everything can be. Considering that we still know almost nothing about the internal affairs of the Clan Protectorate. However, every year there is less and less hope that when we find out about it. If it wasn't for Kisho Nova The Cat in Legends, I would have already thought that about Nova/Spirit Cats just prefer to forget.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Guardian11 on 21 August 2022, 21:51:47
One thing that seems to be indicated by the last lore page of Tamar Rising, the nabbing of all Comstar assets in the FWL, and the deal Petr Kalasa made with Othar in Redemption Rites; is that the Sea Foxes will be bringing online the HPG network and essentially be the new Comstar. If the Clans have the advantage of interstellar communications, that maybe enough of a barrel to put the FWL over that they agree to a deal negotiated by the Sea Foxes to join the Star League. The FWL as the first Great House to join the Star League would be somewhat poetic considering how integral a Marik was to the founding of the original Star League. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 24 August 2022, 06:32:51
One thing that seems to be indicated by the last lore page of Tamar Rising, the nabbing of all Comstar assets in the FWL, and the deal Petr Kalasa made with Othar in Redemption Rites; is that the Sea Foxes will be bringing online the HPG network and essentially be the new Comstar. If the Clans have the advantage of interstellar communications, that maybe enough of a barrel to put the FWL over that they agree to a deal negotiated by the Sea Foxes to join the Star League. The FWL as the first Great House to join the Star League would be somewhat poetic considering how integral a Marik was to the founding of the original Star League.

The question will be if the Foxes can keep it secret HOW they operate their HPG's and how they restored them. As Anastasius Focht so well said "a kick is usually more efficient then a prayer"  And what would keep the Free Worlds from simply seizing everything from the Foxes? The Clan Protectorate lies within the new League. Not exactly a secure place if you ask me especially since the beatings the Protectorate forces got from the other League units.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 24 August 2022, 14:30:51
The Protectorate is not the home of the Sea Foxes. They would regret the loss of investment, but it would be fatal.
OTOH the FWL nearly died the last time they annoyed the phone company while fighting against the neighbours who were still paying.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 25 August 2022, 06:42:25
The Protectorate is not the home of the Sea Foxes. They would regret the loss of investment, but it would be fatal.
OTOH the FWL nearly died the last time they annoyed the phone company while fighting against the neighbours who were still paying.

Small difference though: that phone company had wormed itself into several branches of said goverment (even so far that BA production was only possible with said phone guys and let's not forget the systems installed on mayn Warships) and even had the secrets to pull the rug under from it's best leader. Does this apply to the Foxes at the moment?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 25 August 2022, 07:05:03
Not the Interdiction I was thinking of.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Interdiction#The_Exclusion_of_the_Free_Worlds_League (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Interdiction#The_Exclusion_of_the_Free_Worlds_League)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 August 2022, 09:06:21
BA production might have started off requiring the phone company, but by the time they went on their rampage it no longer applied.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 16 September 2022, 10:27:16
 A new special unit of the Clan Protectorate in Shrapnel 10 unit digest section!  :thumbsup: And it's commander is Kara Fletcher from Dark age clickgame :)
 There is also a minor spoiler for the upcoming war between the League and the Wolves. It seems that the Beta Striker cluster will not survive this war.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 September 2022, 10:56:24
Well, the Scorchers were her unit in that too . . . just shows they were part of the Spirit Cats that made it out.  IIRC, she actually was a Republic Horse.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 28 October 2022, 11:17:23
A new special unit of the Clan Protectorate in Shrapnel 10 unit digest section!  :thumbsup: And it's commander is Kara Fletcher from Dark age clickgame :)
 There is also a minor spoiler for the upcoming war between the League and the Wolves. It seems that the Beta Striker cluster will not survive this war.

The Beta Strike Cluster doesn't seam to be living up to expectations of the ristars that lead it.

Well, the Scorchers were her unit in that too . . . just shows they were part of the Spirit Cats that made it out.  IIRC, she actually was a Republic Horse.

It would have been the forces with Rosse in I, II, and III that joined up with Kishu for certain doom against the combine right?  I would have expected most of the Rimward units to make their way over to Rikkard sooner or later.

I still find it weird to read Galaxy Commander rather than Star Commander Rikkard Nova Cat.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 28 October 2022, 11:41:14
One thing that seems to be indicated by the last lore page of Tamar Rising, the nabbing of all Comstar assets in the FWL, and the deal Petr Kalasa made with Othar in Redemption Rites; is that the Sea Foxes will be bringing online the HPG network and essentially be the new Comstar. If the Clans have the advantage of interstellar communications, that maybe enough of a barrel to put the FWL over that they agree to a deal negotiated by the Sea Foxes to join the Star League. The FWL as the first Great House to join the Star League would be somewhat poetic considering how integral a Marik was to the founding of the original Star League.


I’m not sure how any of that works.
- The end of EA is the FWL declares war and starts the first moves to attack the Empire. Not exactly ready to join
- FWL is used to no HPG. Being denied that isn’t gonna stop them now. It would provide an advantage for the Empire on defense though.
- Speaking of. The Empire has 10 clusters and a Keshik to defend with and has had several of those mangled, including the Keshik. So unless the Foxes want to put their own asses on the line as shock troops for Alaric, who’s bending the FWL over the barrel?
- I don’t see Spirit Cats betraying the one group that’s treated them well in the last century because… ilClan? I dunno what the sales pitch is.

We also saw Alaric reject Rasalhague Dominion for not being 100% in favor of joining. It looks like he wants a big pure clan league What’s different that he would take the deal with FWL?

There’s always room for me to be wrong. I just don’t see how FWL goes from putting boot to Wolf Empire neck to joining Alaric’s faux league in a short time period.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 28 October 2022, 12:39:23
- I don’t see Spirit Cats betraying the one group that’s treated them well in the last century because… ilClan? I dunno what the sales pitch is.

The Spirit Cats are divided on the issues.   the 1st Provisional and the Beta Cluster both went off to fight for the ilClan on their own.   If Beta gets mauled on New Olympia, which is right next door to Atreus,  I don't see them getting mauled fighting for Jessica.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 28 October 2022, 16:51:03
I don't see them getting mauled fighting for Jessica.

I'd certainly hope not, considering that Jessica's dead.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: nova_dew on 29 October 2022, 03:50:44

I’m not sure how any of that works.
- The end of EA is the FWL declares war and starts the first moves to attack the Empire. Not exactly ready to join
- FWL is used to no HPG. Being denied that isn’t gonna stop them now. It would provide an advantage for the Empire on defense though.
- Speaking of. The Empire has 10 clusters and a Keshik to defend with and has had several of those mangled, including the Keshik. So unless the Foxes want to put their own asses on the line as shock troops for Alaric, who’s bending the FWL over the barrel?
- I don’t see Spirit Cats betraying the one group that’s treated them well in the last century because… ilClan? I dunno what the sales pitch is.

We also saw Alaric reject Rasalhague Dominion for not being 100% in favor of joining. It looks like he wants a big pure clan league What’s different that he would take the deal with FWL?

There’s always room for me to be wrong. I just don’t see how FWL goes from putting boot to Wolf Empire neck to joining Alaric’s faux league in a short time period.

Well we know from the opening fiction to EA that the Foxes are not so keen on Alaric and the Wolves heading the 3rd League, and are only playing along a) because profits and b) to protect the FWL from Alaric, it's the FWL it's not going to be a 100% turn around and bend over for Alaric vote and the Protectorate knows this, and Alaric is going to do to them what he did to the Dominion.
I think the Periphery is going to get a lot closer to Terra, at least from Alaric's perspective, take a pair of compasses measure out from Terra to the closest part of the Horses territories and draw a nice circle, I also think the Foxes are going to be actively sabotaging Alaric and the wolves, I wonder if the rogue production facilities mentioned in the 32**? blurbs from the old books, is Fox owned and run ark ships, with maybe Jinyi's banking ship and the missing Cats? TPTB seem to be creating a Pro-3rd league and Anti-3rd league faction from each older faction.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 29 October 2022, 05:12:56
Well we know from the opening fiction to EA that the Foxes are not so keen on Alaric and the Wolves heading the 3rd League, and are only playing along a) because profits and b) to protect the FWL from Alaric, it's the FWL it's not going to be a 100% turn around and bend over for Alaric vote and the Protectorate knows this, and Alaric is going to do to them what he did to the Dominion.
I think the Periphery is going to get a lot closer to Terra, at least from Alaric's perspective, take a pair of compasses measure out from Terra to the closest part of the Horses territories and draw a nice circle, I also think the Foxes are going to be actively sabotaging Alaric and the wolves, I wonder if the rogue production facilities mentioned in the 32**? blurbs from the old books, is Fox owned and run ark ships, with maybe Jinyi's banking ship and the missing Cats? TPTB seem to be creating a Pro-3rd league and Anti-3rd league faction from each older faction.

Really every faction? I doubt any of the Houses would want to join a Clan led League anyway. At least the Capellans and Combine will more likely to try to rip trhough their forces. The Suns are probably watching from the sideline hoping that their two powerful enemies get distracted and run through the wringer. For the Bears and Ravens I might see that. The Foxes are already splintered into their roving Khanates but I don'T see them fight each other because that would eat into their profits. War might be good for business but it is also bad for business relations especially when you have customers around the entire IS. The Lyrans are busy trying to keep their nation alive and while they might see the benefits they could probbaly not contribute much and the Free Worlds League has declared war on the Wolves with the Dragoons leading the way. Alaric will have some mighty juggling to do to convince anyone to join. And a few Galaxies of troops isn't enough to take on the entire IS regardsless if you have HPG's or not. This is not the Terran Hegemony of old.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: nova_dew on 29 October 2022, 07:56:31
Really every faction? I doubt any of the Houses would want to join a Clan led League anyway. At least the Capellans and Combine will more likely to try to rip trhough their forces. The Suns are probably watching from the sideline hoping that their two powerful enemies get distracted and run through the wringer. For the Bears and Ravens I might see that. The Foxes are already splintered into their roving Khanates but I don'T see them fight each other because that would eat into their profits. War might be good for business but it is also bad for business relations especially when you have customers around the entire IS. The Lyrans are busy trying to keep their nation alive and while they might see the benefits they could probbaly not contribute much and the Free Worlds League has declared war on the Wolves with the Dragoons leading the way. Alaric will have some mighty juggling to do to convince anyone to join. And a few Galaxies of troops isn't enough to take on the entire IS regardsless if you have HPG's or not. This is not the Terran Hegemony of old.

The Foxes have split, Spina is i think, is anti League, but not stupid and are pretty much Protectorate in all but name, others are out and about pretty much doing what they want and some are annoyed at Spina, civil war anyone?,

Caps are going to be split, well at least their alliance is, by Andorians(?) in their side and Magistrix behind, they might not have a choice but to join,
Dominion has split,
Ravens not sure yet,
Combine, Yori/Gunji-no-brains split is on the cards,
Lyrans need all the help they can get and the ones next to the Dominion already has Dominion troops on one planet, and Jinyi on their boarder.
Suns might split over "wtf has the prince been and what has he been doing, coming late and saying sorry isn't enough, you aint our prince now, bye-bye"

TPTB are making new splinter-sub-divergent-factions, that are going to be around a while, they never said indefinitely and making pro and anti 3rd league versions of each faction
a) stops the players taking out their frustrations on the boards or at the staff or other players,
b) gives players more options on what faction to pick, c) creates new ways to tell the same stories, because there's no new stories,
d) allows players with a faction to pick i) pro 3rd or ii) anti 3rd versions of their faction, without changing faction,

If true, TPTB have made pretty much the best choice and shows how well they know us, we can get somewhat protective over our chosen factions and the universe and verbal in how we think TPTB treat them, while it doesn't please everyone, it has the most chance of causing the least backlash (happy customers buy more, if they can) and allows options down the road, 3rd league getting popular or accepted, expand it, and run the era a bit longer, not popular speed up it's destruction and move on, new faction not working, work to kill it off and now they can kill of factions without leaving as many people wondering who to follow or if they should just leave, or completely messing with the universe.
It makes sense from the "we want to tell smaller stories and more of them" point of view, a small faction loses a world, it's a big thing, a large faction has too loose how many worlds?, a leader gets killed off, maybe a huge civil war for a large faction vs a smaller one with a big impact for the faction, but little impact on the whole universe, and from a "we want to keep making money" point of view, the same one product can now be sold to multiple people when it covers multiple factions, a Suns book now sells to 5 people not 2, just a suns fan, pro 3rd suns fan, anti 3rd suns fan and 3rd fan, buys everything fan, I suspect that's one of the reasons house books can be hit or miss, a lot for a little, nothing for a lot, doesn't make as much profit as a little for everyone ala TRO's.

but i could be wrong, chances are I am wrong, but it does make sense... at least with how my brain works, better working brains may yield differing results, brains sold as is with no warranty implied or otherwise given, side effect may include but are not limited to sapience
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 30 October 2022, 14:11:23
I'd certainly hope not, considering that Jessica's dead.

Errr...  Jessica's vision.   :P
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 30 October 2022, 14:23:47
Really every faction?

It feels like it's going to be most Clan factions are going to be split.  We know the Horses feel like they missed an opportunity so they probably don't have a pro-ilClan faction.  But for the others.   

The Falcons between Stephanie and Jiyi.
The Wolves between Alaric and Othar ...probably.
The Jaguars between the Fidelis and the NeoJags.
The Protectorate between Julietta and Rikkard
The Bears around the vote.

The Sea Foxes we see are not pro-Alaric, but there are splintered enough division probably exist.   I would be surprised if we don't see a similar Raven division about what to do.

What would shock me is that if any of these divisions persisted to the point were they become formalized ala the Wolves and the Wolves in Exile.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 30 October 2022, 23:23:29
We know the Horses feel like they missed an opportunity so they probably don't have a pro-ilClan faction.

Tamar Rising leaves some hints to the contrary in the 7th Rangers unit profile. They remember their roots as Abtakha from Clan Wolf and may be tempted to go AWOL to join the Ilclan (their new Khan even goes so far as to take their jump ships away from them). Of course, that's only one Cluster so there's no telling how pervasive that attitude might be.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: nova_dew on 31 October 2022, 03:29:59
It feels like it's going to be most Clan factions are going to be split.  We know the Horses feel like they missed an opportunity so they probably don't have a pro-ilClan faction.  But for the others.   

The Falcons between Stephanie and Jiyi.
The Wolves between Alaric and Othar ...probably.
The Jaguars between the Fidelis and the NeoJags.
The Protectorate between Julietta and Rikkard
The Bears around the vote.

The Sea Foxes we see are not pro-Alaric, but there are splintered enough division probably exist.   I would be surprised if we don't see a similar Raven division about what to do.

What would shock me is that if any of these divisions persisted to the point were they become formalized ala the Wolves and the Wolves in Exile.

It wont last forever, Alaric and the 3rd League is on Terra, that place eats factions for breakfast and BT for all it's changes presently it's still following the same theme and I don't see them changing it up too much, we're on The Star League story: III Revenge of the Kerenski's, at the moment, I'm waiting on FedCom Merger II: Messy Divorce Boogaloo.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 06 November 2022, 08:33:03
Alaric is going to do to them what he did to the Dominion.



TPTB seem to be creating a Pro-3rd league and Anti-3rd league faction from each older faction.

How would Alaric do to the FWL what he did to the Dominion? I don’t follow this part at all. FWL is a great house that in the last fifteen years lost a huge chunk of their realm to the Empire. The only part of the house that’s remotely pro-ilclan is some of the Protectorate.

Also, there would not be a vote like in Dominion. FWL has already cast their vote. They declared war.



Like others said, I think you’re seeing clans split on support of ilclan. No great house will be, nor should they be. Alaric offers them nothing of value. “Join my league and we’ll destroy your culture and replace it with clan?” “Join and lose you’re sovereignty.?”

The tiny smidges of Alaric we’ve seen don’t make me think he intends to be first among equals as is needed to make the league work. It sounds like he intends for all to serve him and him alone. But, admittedly, we have seen very little of this part yet.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: nova_dew on 06 November 2022, 08:48:11
How would Alaric do to the FWL what he did to the Dominion? I don’t follow this part at all. FWL is a great house that in the last fifteen years lost a huge chunk of their realm to the Empire. The only part of the house that’s remotely pro-ilclan is some of the Protectorate.

Also, there would not be a vote like in Dominion. FWL has already cast their vote. They declared war.

Like others said, I think you’re seeing clans split on support of ilclan. No great house will be, nor should they be. Alaric offers them nothing of value. “Join my league and we’ll destroy your culture and replace it with clan?” “Join and lose you’re sovereignty.?”

The tiny smidges of Alaric we’ve seen don’t make me think he intends to be first among equals as is needed to make the league work. It sounds like he intends for all to serve him and him alone. But, admittedly, we have seen very little of this part yet.

What he did to the dominion is all join or no one joins.
There was a vote, they voted for war, they just did it preemptively, just like you pointed out after you said that they wouldn't have a vote...
It was me, I pointed out the split  :P
What Alaric offers is not having a war against someone who holds Terra, what happened the last time someone, well everyone had a war with someone who held Terra? and this time Alaric has a plan beyond revenge, though he does have the odd hissy fit.
I agree whole heartedly on what Alaric wants.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GuyIncognito on 06 November 2022, 09:41:15
what happened the last time someone, well everyone had a war with someone who held Terra?
That guy died in nuclear fire?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 November 2022, 14:56:46
How would Alaric do to the FWL what he did to the Dominion? I don’t follow this part at all. FWL is a great house that in the last fifteen years lost a huge chunk of their realm to the Empire. The only part of the house that’s remotely pro-ilclan is some of the Protectorate.

Technically most of what was taken by the Crusader Wolves was not from the League because the League did not exist at the time.  In fact, the Lyrans and Crusader Wolves could be said to be the catalyst of the League reforming . . . otherwise the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth would have opposed the reformation, defending Atreus and Marik more strongly than actually happened.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 17 January 2023, 18:30:25
I really wish we had a novel or at least a short story about Clan Protectorate politics/government. That Rikkard Nova Cat is still unblooded after 15 years is just weird, meanwhile other Spirit Cat characters who have gotten name-dropped in Shrapnel issues have gotten bloodnames (Sariah Vozka in Issue 10 for one).

Is Rikkard running the Clan Protectorate as still one big galaxy command? Has he formed a Clan Council? Is he refusing to because he doesn't know if any other Nova Cats survive? That made a lot of sense prior to 3142, but after the Nova Cat genocide, Rikkard is smart enough to know the Spirit Cats are pretty much the last Nova Cats in existence. And given that they've gotten up to 6-8 clusters now, they probably have a ton of warriors chomping at the bit for bloodnames. Furthermore, how is governance shared between the Cats and Foxes? The Foxes provide the Marik MP in the Parliament, so do they run the external affairs, while the Spirit Cats run the domestic government? Do they share?

Having a novel detail the Spirit Cats in the Protectorate from settlement and attempted reconstruction of a traumatized people, dealing with the question of who are they really (Nova Cats? Spirit Cats? Something else entirely?), and the compromises they might have to make while trying to rebuild (The Clan Protectorate Guardian clusters are staffed with Inner Sphere Warriors officered by Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes, for example) would be utterly fascinating. Instead we just keep hearing about how they fight here and there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 20 January 2023, 20:43:44
I am wondering if we are going to hear something about Kisho in the DD book drop next week.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 20 January 2023, 22:28:30
I was reading over the Kara's Scorcher section of Shrapnel 10, before trying to roll my own version of it.   What I got to didn't really feel like I satisfied the spirit on the fluff.   Anyone else give this a try an get a result they were happy with?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 20 January 2023, 22:38:32
I am wondering if we are going to hear something about Kisho in the DD book drop next week.

The Protectorate could really use the genetic legacies he's carrying around, that would turn the Protectorate into something far greater than a Refugee state

On the discussion of split factions I think the reason give every faction a trial of its own to sort itself out

Every faction right now is distracted with its own goals it gives the ilClan time to rebuild on Terra ala the Reunification War and Amaris, the Succession Wars and ComStar

Not to quote anything in particular but all of this has happened before...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 21 January 2023, 01:52:17
I am wondering if we are going to hear something about Kisho in the DD book drop next week.

My prediction is we won't see anything about Nova Cats in DD. A maximum of one or two mentions in connection with the events of the rebellion or some tech.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 31 January 2023, 14:03:33
My prediction is we won't see anything about Nova Cats in DD. A maximum of one or two mentions in connection with the events of the rebellion or some tech.

No Kisho, but the Bears are stopping off at Irece...  so...  Easter Egg?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 31 January 2023, 14:14:41
No Kisho, but the bears and stopping off at Irece...  so...  Easter Egg?
Did they piss on the graves? Seems like that's their current mindset in regard to the Nova Cats the last 20 years or so.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 31 January 2023, 16:13:50
No Kisho, but the Bears are stopping off at Irece...  so...  Easter Egg?


I assume that when the authors wrote DD, they did not think about any Nova Cats at all. It is unlikely that many of them even remembered who these planets belonged to before and that there was some kind of rebellion at all. In any case, in all the recent books I have this feeling.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Jellico on 31 January 2023, 17:17:51
Irece is the home of a number of important Sea Fox and Draconis Combine industrial centers, on a direct line to Luthien. Of course it is worth a visit. Not everything is about rubbing the Cat's nose in it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 31 January 2023, 18:30:17
Irece is the home of a number of important Sea Fox and Draconis Combine industrial centers, on a direct line to Luthien. Of course it is worth a visit. Not everything is about rubbing the Cat's nose in it.

Yeah the Cats traded heaps to them after the 2nd War... when the Bears rubbed their nose in the dirt  ;D (always a way for a Cat fan to find a dark cloud  :D joking... just)

Honestly I like it cut the Combine off at the knees Blitzkrieg across their space in that fancy Levi III... nukes you say??? That's breakfast
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 January 2023, 23:38:07
Did they piss on the graves? Seems like that's their current mindset in regard to the Nova Cats the last 20 years or so.

I mean... the MWDA story of the Nova Cats is of them having a vision of being destroyed and of the people who believed in the vision becoming Spirit Cats and going to Marik... So I feel like the Nova Cats are doing ok. they've got a small nation, better than being stuck on Irece.

But I'm a Sea Fox, so maybe I'm just more used to your faction changing its name whenever it's beneficial.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 01 February 2023, 01:33:19
I mean... the MWDA story of the Nova Cats is of them having a vision of being destroyed and of the people who believed in the vision becoming Spirit Cats and going to Marik... So I feel like the Nova Cats are doing ok. they've got a small nation, better than being stuck on Irece.

But I'm a Sea Fox, so maybe I'm just more used to your faction changing its name whenever it's beneficial.

I agree with you, that would be great. The problem is that we know less about the  Spirit/Nova cats in Clan Protectorate that arose about fifteen years ago than about mini factions that appeared in the "Tamar rising".   And I'm not talking about the activity description. Cluster X flew to planet Y and there, according to the cat tradition, most likely lost the fight it was in the "Empire Alone". I'm talking about the description of the internal structure of the faction itself. What they live by,  what they think, what they want, what goals. Spirit Cats are Nova Cats who have lived all their lives among spheroids. At the beginning in the republic, then in the FWL. Many of them served in the Republican troops. And they lived as equals. Not like overlords in other clans and not in reservations like Nova Cats in DC. Theoretically, their level of integration and understanding of the local population should be higher than that of any other clan factions.
The situation is even worse with the failed Nova Cat rebellion in DC. We just know practically nothing about it. But a lot has already been written about this, I will not repeat it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wolfcannon on 01 February 2023, 14:13:02
what bloodnames do they have access too?   have they started a breeding program?  do we know what the protecorate can produce battle armor wise?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 01 February 2023, 15:05:34
what bloodnames do they have access too?   

We don't, but they have clan medicine, so nothing is stopping them from creating new Bloodnames, and Bloodhouses like other IS Clans have done (nuFalcons, Bears, WiE).

have they started a breeding program? 

There is what looked like a sibco running around on Merik

do we know what the protecorate can produce battle armor wise?

These are on their RAT.   I assume also put anything manufactured by the Sea Foxes on in the FWL on the table.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 01 February 2023, 19:00:14
They really need a minute to catch their breath and a Khan before they can start breeding programs and Trials of Founding, its a very political very (new Clan) thing to do in starting your own breeding program and new Bloodnames

The Nova Cats only used names they held exclusively to try and ward off trouble with the other Clans (worked well) Kara (Fletcher i think) is a horse and she's gained a name, how this has come about could be a story on its own
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 01 February 2023, 19:08:37
Kara (Fletcher i think) is a horse and she's gained a name, how this has come about could be a story on its own

Kara Fletcher was already Bloodnamed before the Spirit Cats got her.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 01 February 2023, 21:14:43
Given that the Spirit Cats are descended from the three best Galaxies of Nova Cat Warriors, I'm willing to bet they ended up with a lot of bloodnames compared to the remaining Nova Cats in the Combine. Might have more blood heritages than we think.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 02 February 2023, 03:01:08
At the moment we know about 4+1 holders of Blood Names among Spirit/Nova Cats in the Clan Protectorate.  Hardo, Nostra, Vozka and Bavros. Plus Kara Fletcher, but she's originally from Hell Horses.
 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 02 February 2023, 09:58:38
Can someone remind me what we know about the O5P (Order of the Five Pillars) in the Dark Age/ilClan Era.

(and ideally, which book we know it from).

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 02 February 2023, 14:26:22
Can someone remind me what we know about the O5P (Order of the Five Pillars) in the Dark Age/ilClan Era.

(and ideally, which book we know it from).

They got themselves involved with the Nova Cats to create the mystic caste that's in Kishos' novel Heretic's Faith
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 02 February 2023, 17:43:13
Also:
-helped Emi Kurita to hide among the Nova Cats (a short mention in the "Daughter of the Dragon");
-may have helped Kisho and the remnants of the Nova Cats to disappear (Wendigo page in Battletech legends)

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 02 February 2023, 17:43:41
At the moment we know about 4+1 holders of Blood Names among Spirit/Nova Cats in the Clan Protectorate.  Hardo, Nostra, Vozka and Bavros. Plus Kara Fletcher, but she's originally from Hell Horses.

Spirit Cats also had Deleportas' among them, as well as several Rosse's. While there's been no guarantee any of those warriors went with Rikkard to Marik, I think it would be a safe bet they did.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 02 February 2023, 18:10:21
Spirit Cats also had Deleportas' among them, as well as several Rosse's. While there's been no guarantee any of those warriors went with Rikkard to Marik, I think it would be a safe bet they did.

I mentioned those about whom it is known for sure that they are in the Clan Protectorate. There were many Spirit Cats with Bloodnames, but practically none of them are mentioned after 3137. 3 of 4 Spirit/Nova Cats clusters in the Clan Protectorate  are commanded by warriors without bloodnames. If we count two binaries of Kara as a separate cluster, then two out of 5. The Protectorate Guardians are commanded by Sea Foxes. As well as the new Beta Strike cluster.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 02 February 2023, 22:01:45
The problem is that we know less about the  Spirit/Nova cats in Clan Protectorate that arose about fifteen years ago than about mini factions that appeared in the "Tamar rising".

I think the issue is the presumption that we do know about the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats in the Protectorate and so doing a write up on them probably seems redundant. They're covered in several Dark Age novels. They've got character creation rules in the Era Report.

The Protectorate Guardians have a write up in the Era Report, Beta Strike Cluster gets a write up in Empire Alone, the Protectorate Military gets a write up in the Field Manual, Shiva, Purifiers and Omicron as well as the Spirit Cats in general get a write up in Era Digest Dark Ages. They get page 37 of Shattered Fortress as far as what they've been up to.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying I think the writers probably just don't think they need to be explicit about the Clan Protectorate because they actually get a lot of attention in the books. Especially if you're doing something like Empires Alone. Do you use your page and word count to expand your information about someone with very little information? Because with the Spirit Cats you're essentially duplicating information.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 03 February 2023, 02:46:05
I'm not saying that nothing has been written about Spirit Cats at all. They periodically receive their supporting role. The battle for Marik in 3147 is described in more detail than many others. There is even a separate chapter in the Hunting Season on behalf of the Regularian Hussars. In the Empire Alone, they act in the  role of puppets in the intrigues of Peter Kalassa. Their role was so secondary that not a single name of the commanders of the Cat clusters was mentioned in the entire book.
 I saying that we know practically nothing about the internal structure of the Clan Protectorate . Is Spirit/Nova Cats being raised are sibgroups born in the Clan Protectorate? Do they carry out trials for Bloodnames? These issues are very important for any clan faction. Why is their leader without a Blood name and what bloodhouse does he belong to at all?  What are their goals other than survival?
And the writers could be understood if we were talking about an ordinary mini-faction. Although they can be described in sufficient detail. Tamar Rising is an excellent book in this regard. But the Clan Protectorate is the only figuring heir of  larger faction of the clan Nova Cat . Which in turn was destroyed for a page and and almost forgotten.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 04 February 2023, 11:35:04
Not all detail is necessarily good detail.  The Rasalhague Dominion fans don't seam particularly happy with happened up coreward.

I feel like we get enough dribbles, and I would rather than the Spirit/Nova cats getting ended completely.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 February 2023, 11:57:48
As tough as it is, the Clan Protectorate / Spirit Cats are a sub faction now. Battletech had issues with faction bloat for awhile. It's just not manageable to have as many factions as they had and write about them enough to make people happy.

I'd personally like to know how Sea Fox Aimags are structured and they really haven't detailed that.

The Clan Protectorate is odd because its a clan faction in an Inner Sphere realm but I don't think that there is anything to really know about their formations. They seem organized like a normal clan.

The character creation rules for the rpg are probably enlightening for this. The big question is honestly: What product would they present that information in?

We can probably piece it together by looking into some pilot descriptions in the Ilclan TRO series.

Could also maybe just ask in the, "Ask the Writers." Forum.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 13 February 2023, 20:04:46
What exactly is the population of the planet of Marik, Inner Sphere denizens? Doesn't seem like a hospitable place, probably easy for the Spirit Cats and Foxes to swamp it with their civilians.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Sartris on 13 February 2023, 20:12:31
very little change between 3025 and 3150... just under five billion
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 13 February 2023, 20:46:02
 It is no New Avalon for living conditions if that is what you mean. The Free Worlds League culturally would be inclined to accept Clan civilians as part of their makeup.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: The Eagle on 20 February 2023, 09:14:28
It is no New Avalon for living conditions if that is what you mean. The Free Worlds League culturally would be inclined to accept Clan civilians as part of their makeup.

There was even a line in Handbook House Marik that states that several former Smoke Jaguars came back to the League with the Serpent & Bulldog regiments and received a warm if guarded reception.  By the 3100s, with generations having had time to adapt to Clan culture being "here to stay" so to speak, the Free Worlders probably just see Clanners as just another cultural group.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 21 February 2023, 00:49:17
There was even a line in Handbook House Marik that states that several former Smoke Jaguars came back to the League with the Serpent & Bulldog regiments and received a warm if guarded reception.  By the 3100s, with generations having had time to adapt to Clan culture being "here to stay" so to speak, the Free Worlders probably just see Clanners as just another cultural group.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with this. The League doesn't have the "everyday"/they're-our-neighbors/history of conflict with the Clans that, say, the Lyrans and the Combine do. Pretty much most of their knowledge of the Clans is academic as opposed to practical. A handful of Jaguar refugees is a completely different experience (not to mention scale) as suddenly having a sizable population of Clanners living in your house and having a voice in your government.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: parable on 21 February 2023, 03:17:33
A handful of Jaguar refugees is a completely different experience (not to mention scale) as suddenly having a sizable population of Clanners living in your house and having a voice in your government.

But you also have the fact that the FWL has basically always been a tentative union of bickering nation-states jockeying for leadership.  Oh, sure, the Clans bring a level of alienness to the table, but still I have trouble thinking that the FWL wouldn't be able to navigate a new political faction of militarist eugenicist fascist furries among their already-chaotic politics.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 21 February 2023, 06:32:43
But you also have the fact that the FWL has basically always been a tentative union of bickering nation-states jockeying for leadership.  Oh, sure, the Clans bring a level of alienness to the table, but still I have trouble thinking that the FWL wouldn't be able to navigate a new political faction of militarist eugenicist fascist furries among their already-chaotic politics.

You should ask the Romans how integrating a huge amount of foreigners into their empire went. The problem is that the Clans are still alien to IS culture and politics. While the League is a Federation that should make integration a bit easier (like the integration of League trained troops into the original SLDF) the subnations have a more or less similar culture. Just take a look how the Raven Alliance went: the original goverment got completly supplanted by the Clanners and no real integration. While I can't see that for the League as the League is way bigger then the Protectorate I would assume that most states are still on guard against them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 21 February 2023, 08:15:40
It doesn’t help that during EA, parts of the protectorate are now acting openly in favor of ilClan with the Foxes. FWL May possibly go to war with them as well.

I don’t think we’d see the protectorate get wiped, but we could see the “joiners” booted into the wolf empire to form whatever nation that ends up becoming.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: GuyIncognito on 21 February 2023, 12:10:58
Given precedent with the Regulans and Anduriens, a bit of intra-League violence isn't necessarily a deal breaker either.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 21 February 2023, 19:53:26
So the Clan Protectorate Military is an interesting deal. It's not wholly controlled by the Spirit Cats or the Sea Foxes. Some Clusters are entirely of one, others are entirely the other, and some are a mix. Based on the most recent PDFs here's a breakdown.

Spirit Cat Majority
Shiva Keshik
Kara's Scorchers (2 Binaries)
Purifiers Cluster
Nova Cat Provisionals

Sea Fox Majority
Omicron Cluster (Really should've been left Spirit Cat)
Beta Striker Cluster

Mixed (Sea Fox, Spirit Cat, and freeborn Marik)
1st Protectorate Guardians
2nd Protectorate Guardians
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 21 February 2023, 22:39:03
 It is highly unlikely that the Clan Protectorate would even try to impose their culture or governance on the planet Marik. They have a protectorate shindig that is working well for them and giving them limited control. That is not to say that there would not be regions where Clan style governance would be maintained, but they would be enclaves. They get nice things like MPs out of this working.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 21 February 2023, 22:50:28
What large Clan population in the Protectorate? Should Clan Sea Fox decide to move its entire population to Marik, it would sharply shift demographics, but would still not reach 10% of that individual world's population.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 22 February 2023, 02:49:00
Old answer about Omicron cluster:

*mutters something*

Omicron was supposed to be the old Spirit Cats cluster.

Øystein

Regarding the clan population and their relations with the surrounding residents of the FWL. Spirit Cats and most of the First Provesionals Cluster are the heirs of Nova Cats who have lived in the Republic for 70 years. Many of them served in the Republican troops. All their lives they have lived as equals among the spheroids. Spirit Cats most likely transported all the available enclaves of Nova and Spirit Cats from the Republic to the Clan Protectorate. And there were a lot of them there. Not only in  prefecture tree, but also in the rest. For example , the sources of the dark age clixgame mentioned enclaves on Cebalrai , Ankaa , Markus.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 February 2023, 16:54:36
It is highly unlikely that the Clan Protectorate would even try to impose their culture or governance on the planet Marik. They have a protectorate shindig that is working well for them and giving them limited control. That is not to say that there would not be regions where Clan style governance would be maintained, but they would be enclaves. They get nice things like MPs out of this working.

Huh?  Marik is the world the Spirit Cats took from the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth.  It is the OTHER worlds in the Protectorate where they are not going to have any say on the planetary operations outside of defense and trade agreements.  The way I see it the Protectorate military is that every world besides Marik would be like US bases in NATO countries- status of forces agreement, the base/land is leased/loaned to the Protectorate Militia, and when the world/Protectorate are threatened they swing into action.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 22 February 2023, 20:02:54
Old answer about Omicron cluster:

Regarding the clan population and their relations with the surrounding residents of the FWL. Spirit Cats and most of the First Provesionals Cluster are the heirs of Nova Cats who have lived in the Republic for 70 years. Many of them served in the Republican troops. All their lives they have lived as equals among the spheroids. Spirit Cats most likely transported all the available enclaves of Nova and Spirit Cats from the Republic to the Clan Protectorate. And there were a lot of them there. Not only in  prefecture tree, but also in the rest. For example , the sources of the dark age clixgame mentioned enclaves on Cebalrai , Ankaa , Markus.

Yes, I was aware that Omicron was supposed to be the old Spirit Cat Cluster. My in-universe justification for it not being so, and being a Sea Fox expat, is that the Spirit Cats drew their officers for the Guardian clusters mostly from Omicron, reducing it to nothing, but beefing up two new Clusters full of Clan officers staffed with Freeborn warriors.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 March 2023, 14:41:25
Per Shrapnel #12 . . . Star Colonel Cox Devalis was on Irece in '42.  Now since one of his cluster's warriors was called on to create a provisional Trinary, AND the saKhan's briefing mentioned Mystic Kishio . . . it is possible he was part of the evac that used all of the Clan's aerospace assets on that world.

BUT the odds are he died on Irece, probably before the nuke drop.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 20 March 2023, 20:21:21
 Angus Drummond also mentioned in this Shrapnel. Steel wolf section.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 March 2023, 21:44:51
So was Kyria but that was the Steel Wolves write up.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 22 March 2023, 19:05:28
Per Shrapnel #12 . . . Star Colonel Cox Devalis was on Irece in '42.  Now since one of his cluster's warriors was called on to create a provisional Trinary, AND the saKhan's briefing mentioned Mystic Kishio . . . it is possible he was part of the evac that used all of the Clan's aerospace assets on that world.

BUT the odds are he died on Irece, probably before the nuke drop.

Based on the SaKhan's phrasing, I think Cox Devalis was sent with Kisho.

I did like the Angus Drummond mention in the Steel Wolf Section.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 24 March 2023, 00:59:39
If Kisho ever reaches the Clan Protectorate, then Cox Devalis is a good candidate to negotiate with Rikkard. They obviously know each other well.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 March 2023, 09:56:33
'Kishio- All the Minnesota Tribe flavor, none of the Wolverine taint!'
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 24 March 2023, 11:03:09
'Kishio- All the Minnesota Tribe flavor, none of the Wolverine taint!'

Pfft, they're Nova Cats... they have a taint all their own.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 31 March 2023, 15:44:18
I was just watching the Adepticon Day 2 Interview with Randel and Loren.

Randle said "yeah" to a question about bringing the Clan Protectorate and the Nova Cats back together.

Also said "yes" to any plans for the Spirit Cats.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 March 2023, 18:20:07
 . . . Kishio is a Legend from the ilClan era . . . who was last seen what, 7 or 8 years BEFORE the ilClan era started?

So yeah, there is some sort of plan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 31 March 2023, 19:44:22
I love it when a plan comes together

Pfft, they're Nova Cats... they have a taint all their own.  ;D

Yes it's called Xi Galaxy's  paint scheme or the Ceremonial Outfit
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 31 March 2023, 19:47:08
Yes it's called Xi Galaxy's  paint scheme or the Ceremonial Outfit

To each their own, because I love both of those things.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: parable on 15 April 2023, 05:50:08
it's called Xi Galaxy's paint scheme or the Ceremonial Outfit

Now hold on just a gosh-darned minute because not only do I like painting up those weird Cloud Cobra neon 'mechs with esoteric symbols, I also plan on doing a CNC ceremonial garb cosplay within the year.  Spiky cat mask, leather shorts, &etc.  All the Clans are weird furries; at least the Nova Cats owned it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 19 April 2023, 18:50:15
I was just watching the Adepticon Day 2 Interview with Randel and Loren.

Randle said "yeah" to a question about bringing the Clan Protectorate and the Nova Cats back together.

Also said "yes" to any plans for the Spirit Cats.

I tell you, Alaric is going to sucker the Spirit Cats in to joining his ClanLeague by having Kisho come over and make them a deal they cannot refuse...

Full Genetic Repository, Full Clan Status re-activated, just need to secure the Marik Corridor, conquer those pesky  Thaddeus Marik-statelets and connect the Clan Protectorate to the Wolf-IlClan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 19 April 2023, 18:53:32
At least they'd be doing something instead of languishing in irrelevancy like they have been for over a decade of realtime.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 19 April 2023, 19:15:57
At least they'd be doing something instead of languishing in irrelevancy like they have been for over a decade of realtime.

To be fair, recovering and rebuilding after an exodus and then genocide takes time. Especially for a Clan society that can't just immediately recruit a bunch of regiments from the civilians. If the Spirit Cats had a novel detailing how they trying to rebuild their society on Marik, and what sort of changes they might have to make (Think Jiyi Chistu for a little example) to make it work, I think that novel would be utterly fascinating even if they never left Marik and got involved in FWL politics.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 19 April 2023, 19:25:30
I think that novel would be utterly fascinating even if they never left Marik and got involved in FWL politics.

I'm really torn on this. On the one hand, the fact that the Spirit Cats (via the Clan Protectorate) have an actual say in the FWL political system is pretty neat, and I'd love to get a closer look from a storytelling perspective. On the other hand, I hate that the Cats have bounced from one dominant Spheroid landlord to another one. It seems a bit absurd to me that the Cats would knowingly and willingly place their fate in the hands of another Successor State, especially post-genocide. I know the FWL and the DracCom are two entirely different entities, but I worry that history might repeat itself. And if I were Alaric, this would 100% be my sales pitch to get the Cats on board.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: CJC070 on 19 April 2023, 20:48:48
Let’s face it they will have more independence under the FWL especially with the Sea Foxes in their corner.  If they join Alaric I’m more afraid that they’ll be used as cannon fodder and the whole mystic side of the Nova Cats becomes more history than mystery.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 20 April 2023, 08:42:00
I tell you, Alaric is going to sucker the Spirit Cats in to joining his ClanLeague by having Kisho come over and make them a deal they cannot refuse...

Full Genetic Repository, Full Clan Status re-activated, just need to secure the Marik Corridor, conquer those pesky  Thaddeus Marik-statelets and connect the Clan Protectorate to the Wolf-IlClan.

I… don’t see this. In universe, the resurrection of the Jags as a clan is an attack on the legitimacy of the Second Star League. Nova Cats cast their lot in with the inner sphere against other clans and backed that League. We also catch a lot in HotW that Alaric tries to focus on symbols.

It would be muddied, incoherent symbolism at best if he resurrects Nova Cats.


That being said, I completely believe he’d use Spirit Cats as meat shields if they are dumb enough to agree to it.

Also, your plan would be Alaric asking the flat out impossible for about 5 clusters to do. They’d have to empty their own nation, abandon those reliant on them, and commit everything in a giant gamble to secure worlds that wouldn’t be theirs, all while basically guaranteeing they’ll lose the only safe haven they’ve really had in the sphere and backstab the only group that’s ever treated them right.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 20 April 2023, 09:39:57
I… don’t see this. In universe, the resurrection of the Jags as a clan is an attack on the legitimacy of the Second Star League. Nova Cats cast their lot in with the inner sphere against other clans and backed that League. We also catch a lot in HotW that Alaric tries to focus on symbols.

It would be muddied, incoherent symbolism at best if he resurrects Nova Cats.


That being said, I completely believe he’d use Spirit Cats as meat shields if they are dumb enough to agree to it.

Also, your plan would be Alaric asking the flat out impossible for about 5 clusters to do. They’d have to empty their own nation, abandon those reliant on them, and commit everything in a giant gamble to secure worlds that wouldn’t be theirs, all while basically guaranteeing they’ll lose the only safe haven they’ve really had in the sphere and backstab the only group that’s ever treated them right.

And not to mention that one or two Clusters of the Spirit Cat forces consists of native Leaguers. I am prtetty sure they won't be thrilled to throw their lives away for someone their nation is waging war against
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 20 April 2023, 10:04:28
At least they'd be doing something instead of languishing in irrelevancy like they have been for over a decade of realtime.

That's only because, besides Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf, nobody has had a complete story arch in over a decade.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 April 2023, 10:37:34
That's only because, besides Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf, nobody has had a complete story arch in over a decade.

The Suns (for all the good it did them) and the League DID (if you mean 3140-3150) with the DA novels.

Look, we KNOW Kishio returns somewhere sometime in the Dark Age because he is a legend in THAT era rather than the Dark Age.  Which means the mystics are not going to drop into the same hole quad-vees, tankwarriors, and elstars tumbled.  WHERE Kishio appears IS going to matter . . . with the Foxes?  with the ilClan?  or in the Protectorate?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 20 April 2023, 11:17:59
the same hole quad-vees, tankwarriors, and elstars tumbled.

QuadVees and TankWarriors didn't drop into any hole. Both things are still actively being used by the Horses.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 20 April 2023, 12:37:34
The Suns (for all the good it did them) and the League DID (if you mean 3140-3150) with the DA novels.

Look, we KNOW Kishio returns somewhere sometime in the Dark Age because he is a legend in THAT era rather than the Dark Age.  Which means the mystics are not going to drop into the same hole quad-vees, tankwarriors, and elstars tumbled.  WHERE Kishio appears IS going to matter . . . with the Foxes?  with the ilClan?  or in the Protectorate?

I meant real world time, not in game time.   While the Suns pushed back the DC, but Julian hasn't consolidated his authority as First Prince so I wouldn't call that part done...   Though Yuri/Toronaga did finally get wrapped up.   The League arch was wrapped with the end of the DA Novels back in the late 00s.

As much as I like the ilClan Era setting source books, they do leave something to be desired on moving the meta plot forward.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 April 2023, 12:43:00
QuadVees and TankWarriors didn't drop into any hole. Both things are still actively being used by the Horses.

I must have missed where either one were mentioned in Tamar Rising.  Guess we have to see in the Horses upcoming fiction.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 20 April 2023, 12:50:55
I must have missed where either one were mentioned in Tamar Rising.

There's a TankWarrior Notable Pilot in RecGuide 29, and QuadVees are all over the Horse RATs in Tamar Rising.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 22 April 2023, 18:17:30
I… don’t see this. In universe, the resurrection of the Jags as a clan is an attack on the legitimacy of the Second Star League. Nova Cats cast their lot in with the inner sphere against other clans and backed that League. We also catch a lot in HotW that Alaric tries to focus on symbols.

It would be muddied, incoherent symbolism at best if he resurrects Nova Cats.


That being said, I completely believe he’d use Spirit Cats as meat shields if they are dumb enough to agree to it.

Also, your plan would be Alaric asking the flat out impossible for about 5 clusters to do. They’d have to empty their own nation, abandon those reliant on them, and commit everything in a giant gamble to secure worlds that wouldn’t be theirs, all while basically guaranteeing they’ll lose the only safe haven they’ve really had in the sphere and backstab the only group that’s ever treated them right.

The Spirit Cats started out as a group led by Kev Rosse who basically said the Spirit Cats since coming to the Inner Sphere (More specifically the Combine and Republic) had lost their essentialness, and he swore to bring them back to a "purer" form of Nova Cat. I don't think the Spirit Cats would consider the 2nd Star League and their switching sides during the invasion as anything but a mistake, really.

Second, when I saw Marik Corridor, I'm not talking about all of the FWL, I'm just talking about the space between the IlClan and the Clan Protectorate area. Still a tall order, but not if the Wolves start pressing from the other side.

*shrugs* Ultimately I would have preferred if the Spirit Cats stayed part of the FWL and their own thing, but I do want Kisho and company to join them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 23 April 2023, 01:07:23
The Spirit Cats started out as a group led by Kev Rosse who basically said the Spirit Cats since coming to the Inner Sphere (More specifically the Combine and Republic) had lost their essentialness, and he swore to bring them back to a "purer" form of Nova Cat. I don't think the Spirit Cats would consider the 2nd Star League and their switching sides during the invasion as anything but a mistake, really.

Second, when I saw Marik Corridor, I'm not talking about all of the FWL, I'm just talking about the space between the IlClan and the Clan Protectorate area. Still a tall order, but not if the Wolves start pressing from the other side.

*shrugs* Ultimately I would have preferred if the Spirit Cats stayed part of the FWL and their own thing, but I do want Kisho and company to join them.

I would also prefer that Spirit Cats remain part of the FWL. And the remaining Nova Cats would have joined them. At least because this is how they have the best chance of surviving in the long run. But... If Alaric really expects to restore the Star League not only in name, but also in fact, then he may need Kisho. Not Nova Cats, namely Kisho himself. Don't forget, he is a Kurita to the same extent as Alaric is Steiner. And in the case of the conquest of the Draconis Combine, the clan-born Kurita is clearly the best candidate for him to head this part of the inner sphere. The inhabitants of the Combine would rather accept a descendant of Theodore Kurita than any Moon or Ward.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 23 April 2023, 10:11:08
I would also prefer that Spirit Cats remain part of the FWL. And the remaining Nova Cats would have joined them. At least because this is how they have the best chance of surviving in the long run. But... If Alaric really expects to restore the Star League not only in name, but also in fact, then he may need Kisho. Not Nova Cats, namely Kisho himself. Don't forget, he is a Kurita to the same extent as Alaric is Steiner. And in the case of the conquest of the Draconis Combine, the clan-born Kurita is clearly the best candidate for him to head this part of the inner sphere. The inhabitants of the Combine would rather accept a descendant of Theodore Kurita than any Moon or Ward.

I don't think they'd accept either, to be honest. Their prejudice against the Clans is pretty deeply rooted, having been brutalized by the Jags once upon a time, and the rather recent Nova Cat Rebellion might be fresh in their minds. I feel as though trying to install a Clanner as their leader would just lead to massive unrest that would, in turn, strengthen the cause of the Kokuryu-kai. One thing we have to remember about the Dracs is that they're the most hide-bound and xenophobic of all the Great Houses. They would probably all rather take their own lives than submit to anyone outside of their culture.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 23 April 2023, 12:06:31
I don't think they'd accept either, to be honest. Their prejudice against the Clans is pretty deeply rooted, having been brutalized by the Jags once upon a time, and the rather recent Nova Cat Rebellion might be fresh in their minds. I feel as though trying to install a Clanner as their leader would just lead to massive unrest that would, in turn, strengthen the cause of the Kokuryu-kai. One thing we have to remember about the Dracs is that they're the most hide-bound and xenophobic of all the Great Houses. They would probably all rather take their own lives than submit to anyone outside of their culture.

From the point of view of honor, they all had to make a sepuku for themselves when they chose the side of the bastard in the civil war. Thus betraying the rightful heir of the ruling house.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 23 April 2023, 18:27:15
From the point of view of honor, they all had to make a sepuku for themselves when they chose the side of the bastard in the civil war. Thus betraying the rightful heir of the ruling house.

Yeah, the fact that most of House Kurita sided with Yori during the Nova Cat Rebellion always struck me as a little strange. I could see a majority, maybe 60-75% siding with Yori due to "Nova Cat Trickery", but it felt like other Kurita units besides Deiron should have flipped when Daisuke was revealed to be alive. I guess most of the regiments were loyal more to Kanrei Toranaga moreso than Yori.

Kisho will definitely be getting a Kurita bloodname though, that's for certain.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 24 April 2023, 08:26:25
I… don’t see this. In universe, the resurrection of the Jags as a clan is an attack on the legitimacy of the Second Star League. Nova Cats cast their lot in with the inner sphere against other clans and backed that League. We also catch a lot in HotW that Alaric tries to focus on symbols.

It would be muddied, incoherent symbolism at best if he resurrects Nova Cats.

To me it's less the symbolism and more the principle that Clans are above Houses.  If it was the Bears that annihilated the Nova Cats they would not be coming back.   That the rebirth also undermines the Second Star League is just a an unnecessary bonus.   The 2nd League lasted less than a decade and ended in the nuclear fire of the Jihad, I doubt many would look back on it as a success.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: wantec on 24 April 2023, 11:42:05
To me it's less the symbolism and more the principle that Clans are above Houses.  If it was the Bears that annihilated the Nova Cats they would not be coming back.   That the rebirth also undermines the Second Star League is just a an unnecessary bonus.   The 2nd League lasted less than a decade and ended in the nuclear fire of the Jihad, I doubt many would look back on it as a success.

If the Bears had annihilated the Cats, they wouldn't be coming back.
Exactly, if the death of the 2nd Star League was all that it took to invalidate the death of the Jaguars, then couldn't the same have been applied to the death of Clan Mongoose when the Jags died? The difference being one was Clan vs Clan, the other was Clan vs IS powers. Additionally, the Jags had a portion that survived and (in their own way) maintained their way of life. This was not the case with the Mongeese.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 03 December 2023, 17:40:20
So PAX unplugged revealed 4 new force packs, all Star League themed. The 3rd and 4th pack are the IlClan/Star League, and there's a Wendigo in there.


Quote
2nd Star League Assault pack: Daishi Prometheus, Emperor, Argus, Helios, coolant truck

3rd Star League Striker Pack: Lament, Jackalope, Kintaro, Hammerhead II, Havoc, J-27

3rd Star League Battle Pack: Savage Wolf, Wendigo, Excalibur, Peace Keeper, Savior Vehicle

Most likely that is Kisho's, since Legends I had him as an IlClan character and his Wendigo 3D modelled. Also, PAX revealed there is a follow-up novel for Hunting Season, most likely covering Empire Alone content in novel-format, or maybe even new ground post-Empire Alone? I was hoping for a stand alone Spirit Cat novel but that wasn't mentioned at all, but I'm sure the Spirit Cats/Clan Protectorate will feature heavily in a Hunting Season sequel.

Here's hoping we see Kisho re-appear and interact with the Spirit Cats.



Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rncavenger on 03 December 2023, 18:31:28
I wouldn't expect too much. It is unlikely that in the continuation of the “Hunting Season” Spirit Cats will appear more than in the first part or in the novel about the Wolf Dragoons. It’s hardly worth expecting any POVs from them. I think this will be the story of Trenton Marik.
 That's why I'm more excited for a potential novel from Randall.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 03 December 2023, 20:09:09
That's why I'm more excited for a potential novel from Randall.

If there is a novel coming from Randall about the Spirit Cats and Kisho's Nova Cats, I really hope it doesn't start in 3152, but goes back to the Spirit Cats conquering Marik and trying to figure out to rule/integrate themselves, and on the flipside the Nova Cats launching their rebellion, failing, and then Kisho fleeing while trying to get to the Clan Protectorate.

I want a story about societies, cultures, surviving genocide, not just "proud warrior is angry at other proud warrior, how will they resolve dumb problem with obvious solution?"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 05 December 2023, 17:33:19
I wouldn't expect too much. It is unlikely that in the continuation of the “Hunting Season” Spirit Cats will appear more than in the first part or in the novel about the Wolf Dragoons. It’s hardly worth expecting any POVs from them. I think this will be the story of Trenton Marik.
 That's why I'm more excited for a potential novel from Randall.


If Hunting Season covers the initial war against the Wolf Empire, we might see some combat on New Olympia.   We know that the Protectorate was involved in its failed defense and the Cats sent a rescue mission to save their own stuck on planet.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 05 December 2023, 23:43:19

If Hunting Season covers the initial war against the Wolf Empire, we might see some combat on New Olympia.   We know that the Protectorate was involved in its failed defense and the Cats sent a rescue mission to save their own stuck on planet.
The tax shelter New Olympia must be liberated!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 17 December 2023, 20:22:32
So speaking politically about the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats, I'm inclined to think they are probably leaning quite Crusader before/during the IlClan era. They switched to Wardens after joining the Inner Sphere but then;

~ They were abjured.
~ The 2nd Star League was revealed to be a sham.
~ The Draconis Combine treated them horrifically and eventually genocided most of them.
~ Galaxy Commander Kev Rosse called for the Spirit Cats to return a 'purer' form of Cat.

Between the genocide and Kev Rosse's call, I just can't see most Cats remaining wardens. Why try to protect the people who literally genocided most of your Clan? They've got a decent deal in the FWL and there is definitely a split between the older Spirit Cats like Rikkard and the younger ones who don't remember how harrowing it was to escape from the Republic and find a haven, and try to rebuild.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrianDavion on 18 December 2023, 00:43:52
So speaking politically about the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats, I'm inclined to think they are probably leaning quite Crusader before/during the IlClan era. They switched to Wardens after joining the Inner Sphere but then;

~ They were abjured.
~ The 2nd Star League was revealed to be a sham.
~ The Draconis Combine treated them horrifically and eventually genocided most of them.
~ Galaxy Commander Kev Rosse called for the Spirit Cats to return a 'purer' form of Cat.

Between the genocide and Kev Rosse's call, I just can't see most Cats remaining wardens. Why try to protect the people who literally genocided most of your Clan? They've got a decent deal in the FWL and there is definitely a split between the older Spirit Cats like Rikkard and the younger ones who don't remember how harrowing it was to escape from the Republic and find a haven, and try to rebuild.

the warden/crusader dichotomy is by the ilclan era dead. Terra has been conquered after all, the crusade WON
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fire Scorpion IIC on 18 December 2023, 01:10:59
the warden/crusader dichotomy is by the ilclan era dead. Terra has been conquered after all, the crusade WON

It's not the core political division anymore but it's not exactly dead, Warden ideology is alive and well in the Scorpion Empire and ilClan is just another IS political entity to them

The core Warden tenet is to come to the aid of the Inner Sphere if it is ever endangered by external threat and they still uphold their oath to greater mankind

But I do think that Cats have no reason or justification not to go Crusader, they have been keelhauled super hard. True, they brought it entirely on themselves but even with that in mind this was a bit too much

And yes, in the Inner Sphere political landscape the Crusaders won, Terra is theirs and that was the stated objective of the whole ideology

What happens next is different topic


Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 18 December 2023, 03:38:06
I get the feeling the spirit Cats / Nova Cats don't follow any of the Clan believes but rather a "Just leave us alone god damnit!" philosophy. Remember they were not keen on helping the IlClan but their Sea Fox partners "convinced" them (by trial) to do it. And now they are part of a nation that is hellbent on extracting revenge on the Wolf Empire. This doesn't exactly place under Warden or Crusader imho. Even the Fox part of the Protectorate does it probably more for the business aspect then any real love for the IlClan.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 23 December 2023, 14:30:28
It's not the core political division anymore but it's not exactly dead. Warden ideology is alive and well in the Scorpion Empire and ilClan is just another IS political entity to them

The Warden ideology isn't "alive and well" in the Scorpion Empire at all. They've expressed exactly zero interest in intervening in or protecting the Inner Sphere from outside threats, or anything at all beyond their own self-interest.

Sorry, but Brian is right: the Crusader/Warden dichotomy is dead and gone in the ilClan era. In fact, it's been more or less dead since the late 3060s, when that dichotomy was more or less replaced by the Home/Invading Clan dichotomy and then smashed to bits entirely by the Wars of Reaving. That was kind of the point. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fire Scorpion IIC on 23 December 2023, 17:08:23
The Warden ideology isn't "alive and well" in the Scorpion Empire at all. They've expressed exactly zero interest in intervening in or protecting the Inner Sphere from outside threats, or anything at all beyond their own self-interest. ...

Solving your own day-to-day problems in timely manner is not "self-interest" it's just being normal

They are the only ones who even bother keeping an eye on possible external threat (homies), fact that they are also close by doesn't change the fact that ideology still applies

And one of the arguments against the Warden ideology was that they couldn't specifically define what exactly the external threat would be

They were being expected to narrowly define huge number of possible events none of which having happened yet

They could and still can't (nobody can without access to 40k grade assets) but that doesn't change their beliefs

Once external threat shows up then you can't crack open this argument again





Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 23 December 2023, 17:44:41
Solving your own day-to-day problems in timely manner is not "self-interest" it's just being normal

That's literally the definition of self-interest.

Quote
They are the only ones who even bother keeping an eye on possible external threat (homies), fact that they are also close by doesn't change the fact that ideology still applies

They aren't keeping an eye on the Home Clans on the Inner Sphere's behalf (which is what would make them Warden), they're keeping an eye on them out of self-interest/self-preservation.

Quote
And one of the arguments against the Warden ideology was that they couldn't specifically define what exactly the external threat would be

They were being expected to narrowly define huge number of possible events none of which having happened yet

They could and still can't (nobody can without access to 40k grade assets) but that doesn't change their beliefs

Once external threat shows up then you can't crack open this argument again

All of this is irrelevant. They're not Wardens, because Wardens don't exist anymore.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 24 December 2023, 02:11:25
Preservers then? :cool:
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: parable on 24 December 2023, 04:08:30
I'm inclined to cleave towards Tassa Kay's viewpoint: the Clans at this point aren't the monolithic entity (yeah, I know that was never the case) they were circa 3050.  Honestly, saying that there are overarching Clan philosophies is largely a fool's errand.  As far as I can see (and I haven't read much of anything in the ilClan era), there are Clans that rally behind Clan Wolf's ilKhanate, those that deny it as legitimate, and (most importantly) those who don't care.  The Rasalhague Dominion is not, AFAIK, about to cede any territory nor sovereignly just because the Wolves took Terra.  The Scorpion Empire is just out on the periphery surviving, the Sharkfoxes are settling into their role as Comstar 2.0, and the Raven Alliance is its normal inscrutable self.  If I were asked to group these disparate groups into 2 or 3 easily-determined philosophies, I'd quit--it's largely impossible.  IMO, none of the definitions work--at best I'd say there are 2 camps, the self-deterministic (Rasalhague, Scorpion, Raven) and the traditional (Wolf, Jade Falcon, Hell's Horses).  Spirit Cats would be the former, Nova Cats would honestly be closer to the latter than they'd admit. 

There's my (admittedly sloppy) analysis of the situation.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrianDavion on 24 December 2023, 04:49:42
I think among the Inner Sphere clans (and the goliath scorpions) I'd almost argue the split that exists is between "intergrationalists" vs "Preservers"

those who accept that the clans will have to intergrate with the inner sphere populations and likely become something new, vs those who want to stand apart from the Inner Sphere populations and preserve their clan identity.

I'd argue along this split you have clans wolf, jade falcon and hells horses being "preservers" with the snow ravens, ghost bears goliath scorpions being the intergrationalists
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 24 December 2023, 08:13:46
I am not sure if I would count the Ravens as "integrationalists" as they just like the Horses don't mingle much with their Alliance population. They don't even field mixed units but keep the Alliance milita separated from their own (unless I overlooked something). And don't get me started on their economy policy. While Alliance companies do prodcue Clan tech this seems to be only destined for the Ravens. The majority of the Alliance still seem to live as in the early 3060's. Isn't this the main weakness of the Ravens at the moment? Their military and economy is stretched thin thanks to the massive reactivation of their fleet which is hindered by a rather small ground force touman.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 24 December 2023, 10:17:51
Honestly, I'm sick to death of seeing the Clans always thrown into dichotomies: Wardens/Crusaders, Home/Invader, Bastions/Aggressors, Imperials/Preservers, Slips/Jesses, Joiners/Deniers... it's so lazy and creatively bankrupt, and I am enjoying the fact that (at least as far as I can see) the Clan Protectorate hasn't fallen into this stupid trope.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: WONC on 26 December 2023, 02:24:02
I am enjoying the fact that (at least as far as I can see) the Clan Protectorate hasn't fallen into this stupid trope.

Well, we Nova Cats and our descendants are nothing if not... unpredictable? Yeah, that feels like the correct term for it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 26 December 2023, 10:01:36
Honestly, I'm sick to death of seeing the Clans always thrown into dichotomies: Wardens/Crusaders, Home/Invader, Bastions/Aggressors, Imperials/Preservers, Slips/Jesses, Joiners/Deniers... it's so lazy and creatively bankrupt, and I am enjoying the fact that (at least as far as I can see) the Clan Protectorate hasn't fallen into this stupid trope.

Well it seems they're falling into the trap of whether they should support the IlClan or not, so there's that.

Honestly, historians love to break up societies into major conflicting groups, but you peel away at that initial layer and there's tons of individual conflicts/smaller subgroup conflicts that make that dichtonomy far more complicated than what might initially assume.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: parable on 27 December 2023, 05:56:14
Well, we Nova Cats and our descendants are nothing if not... unpredictable? Yeah, that feels like the correct term for it.

If I am not allowed to hike and fast out in the wilderness until I start hallucinating, and cannot base my entire life on that fever dream, I am terminally bereft.  The Nova Cats' ways of seeing are, well...at best unhealthy and at worst absolute insanity. 

edit: (which is true of literally every Clan, and part of the reason I love those fascist furries)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 27 December 2023, 07:10:50
How do us Green Turkey's do it then ? :grin:

(You have opened a can of worms here now lol)
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: parable on 27 December 2023, 07:15:05
How do us Green Turkey's do it then ? :grin:

(You have opened a can of worms here now lol)

Get EI.  Find an IS nemesis.  ?  YOU DARE TO REFUSE MY BATCHALL!?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 27 December 2023, 12:27:53
Given that the Sea Foxes somehow are able to navigate the support ilClan but still supply/be accepted by the Inner Sphere the Spirit Cats should perhaps follow their lead...

The issue I guess with that is while they are two very long and close allies this was always built on both sides having something to offer the other. As the Nova Cats made... Some missteps...  :undecided: they at least had tech/territory to trade to the Sea Foxes to keep the two relatively equal

The question I guess is how long in the ilClan era this continues as the Foxes are clearly the stronger partner which could lead to a Trial of Absorbtion. Of course if the Spirit Cats played their cards right and demanded a Ransom, say the Khanate based in the Protectorate, and won. Combined with a return of Kisho you could see a full rebirth of the Nova Cats
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 27 December 2023, 12:36:57
I think the main issue will be how the Protectorate will deal with the rest of the League. By now their offer for repairing the HPG's in parts of the League in return for stopping the occupation of Empire worlds seems to have been fully rejected and their "parent nation" has gone into full war with the Wolf Empire and by extension the IlClan. The Protectorate MP's voted against said assault but now they are stuck with it. Simply joining the Wolves would possibly sunder the Protectorate as the Spirits Cats and most likely the Nova Cats are not exactly keen on supporting the IlClan while the Foxes see the Ilclan as a great business opportunity. And legally they are bound to the League unless they decide to go independent. Copying their parent nation to a T  :tongue:
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 27 December 2023, 21:45:07
Given that the Sea Foxes somehow are able to navigate the support ilClan but still supply/be accepted by the Inner Sphere the Spirit Cats should perhaps follow their lead...

The issue I guess with that is while they are two very long and close allies this was always built on both sides having something to offer the other. As the Nova Cats made... Some missteps...  :undecided: they at least had tech/territory to trade to the Sea Foxes to keep the two relatively equal

The question I guess is how long in the ilClan era this continues as the Foxes are clearly the stronger partner which could lead to a Trial of Absorbtion. Of course if the Spirit Cats played their cards right and demanded a Ransom, say the Khanate based in the Protectorate, and won. Combined with a return of Kisho you could see a full rebirth of the Nova Cats

Between Randall N. Bills mentioning they have plans for the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats and the countless drops in recent fiction about Alaric avenging the Nova Cats, I can't see an absorption. The Spirit Cats currently have more clusters than the Jade Falcons or Smoke Jaguars do on Terra.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 31 December 2023, 10:59:48
If you’re talking Spirit cats being absorbed, nobody who would engage in an absorption has enough to do it and in the area they need it. Foxes only have a bare five-ish cluster across all of FWL/Empire and 1 or 2 just took a beating. Wolves are a long ways an a brutal war away. Empire has ten clusters, but most have taken a beating already. If they went to absorb the Cats, it would be suicide as FWL would sweep the empire.


Between Randall N. Bills mentioning they have plans for the Spirit Cats/Nova Cats and the countless drops in recent fiction about Alaric avenging the Nova Cats, I can't see an absorption. The Spirit Cats currently have more clusters than the Jade Falcons or Smoke Jaguars do on Terra.


What lore hints have there been? I don’t see why Alaric - mister symbolism himself - would avenge a clan that was abjured after siding with the 2nd Star league. That ignores that Alaric simply doesn’t have the assets to do anything of substance to DC. He barely has enough to repel Daoshen’s advance
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 31 December 2023, 14:25:44
What lore hints have there been? I don’t see why Alaric - mister symbolism himself - would avenge a clan that was abjured after siding with the 2nd Star league. That ignores that Alaric simply doesn’t have the assets to do anything of substance to DC. He barely has enough to repel Daoshen’s advance

The only symbolism I can come up with would be "Only Clans can annihilate Clans not the dezgra IS barbarians!" Probably ignoring that the current Wolves will look very Is once all that fighting is over and most of their ranks are filled with IS citizens as the Wolves iron womb facilities are now in the hands of the League and probably shut down for good
And do the Prtotectorate Foxes have that much forces? From what I understood is that most of their forces are more a mix of Clans and deserving IS citizens with perhaps one or two pure Clusters. And that Provisonal Cluster with Nova Cats and Republic refugees
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 December 2023, 23:25:53
. . . as the Wolves iron womb facilities are now in the hands of the League and probably shut down for good . . .

Says where?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 01 January 2024, 10:55:02
Says where?

Sorry, that was my prediction for the coming years. You have to admit should the Empire fall completly into League hands I would expect that these facilities are shut down with immediate effect. Or do you think the Protectorate would take them over? That has me wonder though: where do Clans keep their Iron womb facilities? Only at their capitals?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 January 2024, 15:30:53
Sorry, that was my prediction for the coming years. You have to admit should the Empire fall completly into League hands I would expect that these facilities are shut down with immediate effect. Or do you think the Protectorate would take them over? That has me wonder though: where do Clans keep their Iron womb facilities? Only at their capitals?

Never really covered- the master genetic repository is usually located there along with the Blood Chapels (see Nova Cats for best description) though usually a back up repository is cited somewhere, it is not given the fanfare of the master.  BUT if you look at how spread out the sibkos are by the ilClan era- see the Falcon & Bears for best example- then IMO you basically might end up with 'sector' Iron Womb facilities popping out trueborns under the direction of the scientists at the Master Genetic Repository.  Heck, you could have 'back ups' in all those areas I guess- question is security vs ease of access.

Sibkos in the late stages of their training DO rotate to other worlds (as of DA/ilClan eras) to experience different conditions.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 01 January 2024, 16:07:38
 Thinking from a Free Worlds League fan perspective, the genetic repository is too valuable a bargaining vessel to simply shut down for the long term, however the bionic controversy may prevent most League states from making use of it themselves. It may instead be "Leased" to the Protectorate at least in the short term if not used as a bargaining tool with another entity, possibly including the Dragoons themselves. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 01 January 2024, 20:01:41

What lore hints have there been? I don’t see why Alaric - mister symbolism himself - would avenge a clan that was abjured after siding with the 2nd Star league. That ignores that Alaric simply doesn’t have the assets to do anything of substance to DC. He barely has enough to repel Daoshen’s advance

Alaric said he wanted revenge for the Nova Cats being genocided in Children of Kerensky, and it was repeated in the intro for Empire Alone. Will it happen? Probably not, but it seems Alaric would like to see the Nova Cats resurrected.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 02 January 2024, 08:47:15
But does "revenge for" somehow equal "resurrection of"? I don't recall that specific sentiment in print.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 02 January 2024, 10:19:14
Sorry, that was my prediction for the coming years. You have to admit should the Empire fall completly into League hands I would expect that these facilities are shut down with immediate effect. Or do you think the Protectorate would take them over? That has me wonder though: where do Clans keep their Iron womb facilities? Only at their capitals?

I'd put my Kerensky's on the Wolves taking their Blood Legacies with them to Terra, they were all in, the facilities may have been left behind but noway they would leave the legacies to garrison troops and cadets

I'd guess that they'd have done something like the Nova Cats did with Kisho the legacies themselves must be in container like transports it would be cool if it was explained sometime how they are transported
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Metallgewitter on 02 January 2024, 12:26:10
That should be the only possibility though I expect that they have at least some repositories in their empire otherwise they could not "breed" new Trueborns. This would be a gap in their entire Clan they would need to bridge. Of course I am not sure if they also took examples of their Iron wombs with them or have to begin from scratch in the Terran system.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 02 January 2024, 12:42:25
I'd put my Kerensky's on the Wolves taking their Blood Legacies with them to Terra, they were all in, the facilities may have been left behind but noway they would leave the legacies to garrison troops and cadets

I'd guess that they'd have done something like the Nova Cats did with Kisho the legacies themselves must be in container like transports it would be cool if it was explained sometime how they are transported

They didn’t take the sibko’s, but they take the genetic vaults?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 02 January 2024, 15:02:12
Clan Wolf could have survived if their touman had been defeated at Terra and could still survive losing it to the CCAF. The chips have been anted with the choice of the Empire's governing leadership. The Empire may not have the power to stop the League, but it could make moves to keep the Clan alive in a variety of directions.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 02 January 2024, 16:42:17
That should be the only possibility though I expect that they have at least some repositories in their empire otherwise they could not "breed" new Trueborns. This would be a gap in their entire Clan they would need to bridge. Of course I am not sure if they also took examples of their Iron wombs with them or have to begin from scratch in the Terran system.

The physical structures can be replaced pretty easily it's common Clan tech even if the Wolves don't have the equipment the Foxes will trade it to them

They didn’t take the sibko’s, but they take the genetic vaults?

The Sibkos are dead weight they haven't proven themselves in battle and they are an unknown quantity - makes sense to leave them behind the genetic pool loses nothing

Those legacies are the past present and future of the Clan. They are everything that Nicholas Kerensky wanted for the Clans and the Wolves making it to Terra and becoming ilClan is the crowning achievement, if they are anywhere I think they'll be on McKenna's Pride during the battle then on Terra , no way Alaric sacrifices that on his way to a Terra IMO especially with no return since victory. He had the originals or he has copies

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Church14 on 02 January 2024, 17:45:13
The Sibkos are dead weight they haven't proven themselves in battle and they are an unknown quantity - makes sense to leave them behind the genetic pool loses nothing

Those legacies are the past present and future of the Clan. They are everything that Nicholas Kerensky wanted for the Clans and the Wolves making it to Terra and becoming ilClan is the crowning achievement, if they are anywhere I think they'll be on McKenna's Pride during the battle then on Terra , no way Alaric sacrifices that on his way to a Terra IMO especially with no return since victory. He had the originals or he has copies

I’m not being snarky, but this makes no sense.

The repository being on McKenna’s pride places huge risk that wolves lose everything if they lose a single ship. Remember that they brought suicide bombers and had no really way to know that RAF wouldn’t respond in kind. Moving the repositories or the sibkos before they secure Terra cripples any chance of wolf surviving if Alaric failed.

Moving those makes sense out of universe where we know wolf plot armor demands a victory, but the wolves weren’t supposed to know they’d do it for sure.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: BrianDavion on 02 January 2024, 18:17:19
I’m not being snarky, but this makes no sense.

The repository being on McKenna’s pride places huge risk that wolves lose everything if they lose a single ship. Remember that they brought suicide bombers and had no really way to know that RAF wouldn’t respond in kind. Moving the repositories or the sibkos before they secure Terra cripples any chance of wolf surviving if Alaric failed.

Moving those makes sense out of universe where we know wolf plot armor demands a victory, but the wolves weren’t supposed to know they’d do it for sure.

There's an old story about a pirate captain who knew he needed to capture a ship, and to ensure his crew fought their hardest deliberately sunk his own ship as they boarded the other one, sometimes people really are willing to make a fight 100% "do or die"
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fire Scorpion IIC on 02 January 2024, 18:23:29
I’m not being snarky, but this makes no sense.

The repository being on McKenna’s pride places huge risk that wolves lose everything if they lose a single ship. Remember that they brought suicide bombers and had no really way to know that RAF wouldn’t respond in kind. Moving the repositories or the sibkos before they secure Terra cripples any chance of wolf surviving if Alaric failed.

Moving those makes sense out of universe where we know wolf plot armor demands a victory, but the wolves weren’t supposed to know they’d do it for sure.

DNA samples can be kept in more than one place

You just need some empty vials and an extra fridge


Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 04 January 2024, 19:56:35
I'd guess that they'd have done something like the Nova Cats did with Kisho the legacies themselves must be in container like transports it would be cool if it was explained sometime how they are transported

Genetic information is just data.

The 2.9 billion base pairs of the haploid human genome correspond to a maximum of about 725 megabytes of data, since every base pair can be coded by 2 bits. Since individual genomes vary by less than 1% from each other, they can be losslessly compressed to roughly 4 megabytes.  Most portable USB drives could easily move any given clans entire genetic legacy.

Taking the mortal remaining, the gift takes, with them is largely symbolic, and also not something that would require a tremendous amount of space to move.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 04 January 2024, 20:04:33
Reading Shrapnel #15, apparently a group of Clan Jade Falcon warriors came to the Clan Protectorate after the Jade Falcon Civil War and asked to join, but got turned down.

Dang, wish the Spirit Cats had said yes, get a trinary or two of warriors for free.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 05 January 2024, 05:49:32
Reading Shrapnel #15, apparently a group of Clan Jade Falcon warriors came to the Clan Protectorate after the Jade Falcon Civil War and asked to join, but got turned down.

Dang, wish the Spirit Cats had said yes, get a trinary or two of warriors for free.

Which story is that in #15 ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Flaresnake on 06 January 2024, 19:58:36
Which story is that in #15 ?

Tales of the Strange Bedfellows
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 06 January 2024, 21:58:20
Genetic information is just data.

The 2.9 billion base pairs of the haploid human genome correspond to a maximum of about 725 megabytes of data, since every base pair can be coded by 2 bits. Since individual genomes vary by less than 1% from each other, they can be losslessly compressed to roughly 4 megabytes.  Most portable USB drives could easily move any given clans entire genetic legacy.

Taking the mortal remaining, the gift takes, with them is largely symbolic, and also not something that would require a tremendous amount of space to move.

Thanks thinking about that it makes total sense for some reason I was thinking of the giftakes as the samples but they are scientists who knows what they get up to

Reading Shrapnel #15, apparently a group of Clan Jade Falcon warriors came to the Clan Protectorate after the Jade Falcon Civil War and asked to join, but got turned down.

Dang, wish the Spirit Cats had said yes, get a trinary or two of warriors for free.

That would have been interesting - seriously why not trial for them don't let them join just like that make them fight. I have to catch up with sharpnel
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 07 January 2024, 06:55:33
It should be remembered that this was not long after Malvina took control of the clan.  The Falcons had a bit of a reputation for being insane from that point onward.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 January 2024, 12:17:19
It should be remembered that this was not long after Malvina took control of the clan.  The Falcons had a bit of a reputation for being insane from that point onward.

Plus they would have to consider how it would make them look with their neighbors.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Dragon Cat on 07 January 2024, 13:28:23
True and I guess Malvina wouldn't have been against throwing a disposable WarShip at the Protectorate just to make a point about taking her warriors
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fire Scorpion IIC on 07 January 2024, 16:18:40
Reading Shrapnel #15, apparently a group of Clan Jade Falcon warriors came to the Clan Protectorate after the Jade Falcon Civil War and asked to join, but got turned down.

Dang, wish the Spirit Cats had said yes, get a trinary or two of warriors for free.

What happened to those Falcons after that?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: jimdigris on 07 January 2024, 17:09:58
Many were killed repulsing attacks against Republic worlds with Jade Falcon enclaves.  The rest are founding members of the Strange Bedfellows mercenary unit.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 08 January 2024, 07:05:41
Just finished reading it.

Good read, who knows Jiyi may have use for them  :grin:

Hats off, loved this bit

"My fellow Jade Falcons, our Clan is now led by an abomination who not only kills conquered worlds, but our own enclaves. She has destroyed all of Hammarr to eliminate all opposition within the Clan. Many of us will be pruged instead of dying for the good of the Clan or the Founder's dreams for humanity. should you survive that, you will become her butchers, and your codex and Bloodheritage will be forever tainted by association with that malignancy. I am leaving Sudeten to chart another path to fulfill Kerensky's vision. All those who wish to go with me should board this ship now."

Perhaps this story has a prequel story (after leaving Sudeten)

On another note it would have been interesting if they did hold their enclaves or were accepted in The Protectorate and kept their namesake and legacy ? 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 12 January 2024, 03:12:50
Any guesses on the type of jumpship they escaped on ?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 12 January 2024, 19:13:53
Any guesses on the type of jumpship they escaped on ?

If you're asking for speculation, I'd say it was either a Clan Scout or possibly an Invader.

I would actually go with the Invader.  It may be far larger than what they need, but Invaders seem very common in the Clan Toumans and easily in the reach of warriors who need to commandeer any transport immediately to get away from an insane leader like Malvina.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Krachenvogel on 07 March 2024, 10:46:30
So I'm pondering on putting together Kara's Scorchers as it seems like a good project to get a dedicated il'Clan era force, plus having a force dedicated to messing with your opponents heat curve sounds like a laugh.

Sarna lists the composition as essentially a medium nova, plus a heavy vehicle star capable of carrying a heavy BA star.
The medium nova is easy- plenty of medium omnis and medium BA on MUL for the Protectorate which have a way of heating things up for your opponent.
The heavy vehicle star is kind of doable. As they're supposed to have the IFVs for the heavy BA star, you end up with heavy-weight tanks (Shoden, Sekhmet etc) supporting medium-weight IFVs (Maxims and R10s). It's alright if you squint.
The heavy BA star though I'm at a loss. The MUL lists the Corona, Gnome and Thunderbird as Protectorate heavy BA and none of those have flamers or SRMs capable of carrying infernos. What's the most likely candidate for a Protectorate heavy BA for the Scorchers? Perhaps the Ogre or Phalanx, both of which are FWL available designs?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 March 2024, 11:17:40
Deleted because apparently Sarna has everything of relevant interest in the Scorchers article.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 March 2024, 11:36:07
The heavy BA star though I'm at a loss. The MUL lists the Corona, Gnome and Thunderbird as Protectorate heavy BA and none of those have flamers or SRMs capable of carrying infernos. What's the most likely candidate for a Protectorate heavy BA for the Scorchers? Perhaps the Ogre or Phalanx, both of which are FWL available designs?

There's a Clan Protectorate-specific Battle Armor RAT on page 134 of Empire Alone. That might be a good place to check, as the Phalanx A and D appear on the Protectorate RAT. Also from that RAT, the Thunderbird is a solid heavy BA option, and the Xiphos B and C as well because of their loadouts. They use the Kopis as well, including the Mortar variant.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 07 March 2024, 12:25:43
There's an SRM version of the Corona as well, if you want to stick with Clan designs. SRM 5 with three shots, Heavy Recoiless and Heavy Flamer.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Angrii on 07 March 2024, 14:44:46
Isn't the SRM Corona exclusive to the Homeworlds?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 March 2024, 15:39:25
Isn't the SRM Corona exclusive to the Homeworlds?

Production-wise, probably. But that specific variant notably appeared in the Dominion during the Horse-Adder/Burrock/Bear fight on Thule (the Adders were using them against the Burrocks that were masquerading as Horses), and those Adders ended up staying with the Horses, so the Horses at least had access to those Coronas that the Adders brought along with them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 07 March 2024, 16:05:00
Production-wise, probably. But that specific variant notably appeared in the Dominion during the Horse-Adder/Burrock/Bear fight on Thule (the Adders were using them against the Burrocks that were masquerading as Horses), and those Adders ended up staying with the Horses, so the Horses at least had access to those Coronas that the Adders brought along with them.

It does give a plausable excuse from where they could have originated from. Although you'd want to keep the numbers low I guess.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 March 2024, 19:54:07
It does give a plausable excuse from where they could have originated from. Although you'd want to keep the numbers low I guess.

Oh, absolutely. The only way I could see them ending up in the Protectorate is if the Foxes get them from the Horses, and I don't see the Horses selling them without a means of producing them. The Foxes could always Trial for them but that seems like a bit of a long shot.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 07 March 2024, 20:42:38
 If the Clans of the Protectorate worked through the proper institutions such as the Free Worlds Technical institute in the Free Worlds League, they likely could dissect any suit and reverse engineer it. Remember the League does have an NAIS equivalent. There is no more Blakist interference.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 March 2024, 21:17:33
If the Clans of the Protectorate worked through the proper institutions such as the Free Worlds Technical institute in the Free Worlds League, they likely could dissect any suit and reverse engineer it. Remember the League does have an NAIS equivalent. There is no more Blakist interference.

We can't assume that's the case, though. There's absolutely no evidence of it.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 07 March 2024, 21:26:08
We can't assume that's the case, though. There's absolutely no evidence of it.
Of them working together, that is a matter of politics. Of the capability, it is definitely there.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 March 2024, 21:29:08
Of them working together, that is a matter of politics. Of the capability, it is definitely there.

Having the potential to do something is not the same thing as doing it. By that logic, pretty much any faction can reverse-engineer just about anything if they really wanted to and the FWL is hardly a unique snowflake in that regard, but that's simply not how BattleTech works on a general level. And there is absolutely no evidence that exists to suggest that the FWL is producing Coronas in any way, shape or form.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 07 March 2024, 22:39:00
 Like the original university, if the League can get interested entities to work through the university it will function well. This includes in reverse engineering Clan Tech.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Krachenvogel on 08 March 2024, 06:25:58
As much as I love the Corona SRM, it feels like a real reach for the Scorchers to have any. I think I'll stick to Phalanx, maybe with a point of Kopis and Xiphos each. The Kopis anti-infantry variant looks pretty nasty.

Thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 08 March 2024, 08:01:24
As much as I love the Corona SRM, it feels like a real reach for the Scorchers to have any. I think I'll stick to Phalanx, maybe with a point of Kopis and Xiphos each. The Kopis anti-infantry variant looks pretty nasty.

Thanks for the advice!
It would not be a reach at all, the standard Corona is available to all Inner Sphere Clans, though the SRM version is Star Adder only. This means it is just a matter of if the Foxes or Wolves provided them to the unit in some form. Potentially even Nova Cat survivors.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 08 March 2024, 10:50:00
Also, the Scorchers are an elite Spec Ops unit. If any group in the Protectorate is gonna have an excuse for non-standard Battlearmor, it'll be them. Especially since they can beg/borrow/Trial of Possession it. The MUL isnt the end all be all for unit assignment. They can hack a custom together if they really need to.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fire Scorpion IIC on 08 March 2024, 15:28:35

Corona is one of the classic Battle Armor designs, it's widespread among all Clans and is a staple product in Sea Fox (and others') catalogue

If Scorchers decide they need Coronas all they have to do is get the box of germanium ready, log on to chatterweb, place an order on Amazon IIC and wait 2-6 weeks for dropship to land

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 08 March 2024, 15:56:29
Corona is one of the classic Battle Armor designs, it's widespread among all Clans and is a staple product in Sea Fox (and others') catalogue

Literally none of this is accurate. It's not a "classic" design (it only hit production in 3060 and was only used by a few Clans at that time) and was never "widespread among all Clans", it doesn't appear on a single Clan's RATs in the Dark Age/ilClan era with the sole exception of the Scorpions (the RATs aren't the end-all-be-all, yes, but between them and the production facility listings, they're an excellent starting point), and it certainly isn't a "staple product" of the Foxes because they don't have the ability to produce them. No one does beyond the Star Adders and maybe the Cobras.

Do they exist in some form in the Inner Sphere? Of course they do. Do they exist in enough numbers that they're being sold by their owners to interested parties? Not very likely, given their rarity. Are they being produced by anyone outside of the Adders? Not that we've seen thus far. But like anything else, they can be salvaged or taken in a ToP, and there's room for a one-off sale here or there.

Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Fire Scorpion IIC on 08 March 2024, 16:08:13

It's 1.5 ton century old armor not McKenna warship, it's getting made no problem

Behold:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8613/corona-heavy-battle-armor-sqd5



Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 08 March 2024, 16:20:51
It's 1.5 ton century old armor not McKenna warship, it's getting made no problem

Behold:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8613/corona-heavy-battle-armor-sqd5

Being on the MUL doesn't mean they're being produced by the faction that uses them.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Sartris on 08 March 2024, 17:29:58
Being on the MUL doesn't mean they're being produced by the faction that uses them.

accurate
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 March 2024, 13:02:59
As much as I love the Corona SRM, it feels like a real reach for the Scorchers to have any. I think I'll stick to Phalanx, maybe with a point of Kopis and Xiphos each. The Kopis anti-infantry variant looks pretty nasty.

Thanks for the advice!

Also remember the Republic, who the Spirit Cats originate from along with Kara's pony enclave, had Grenadiers.  I THINK they had some figs of them in MWDA too.  So you can vary up your SRM BA flavors if that appeals, or ignore them for uniformity.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 10 March 2024, 20:01:20
Also remember the Republic, who the Spirit Cats originate from along with Kara's pony enclave, had Grenadiers.  I THINK they had some figs of them in MWDA too.  So you can vary up your SRM BA flavors if that appeals, or ignore them for uniformity.

Grenadiers were never made into a clix piece, I just bought some IWM ones the other day because I didn't have any clix ones to convert.

The author of the Kara's Scorcher's article shared with me his ideal supernova layout of the unit. No Coronas present. Of course, it's not technically canon as it hasn't appeared in any published sources.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 11 March 2024, 08:10:18
...So what did they give as a layout then? Curious minds want to know. :D
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: rebs on 11 March 2024, 09:15:48
Being on the MUL doesn't mean they're being produced by the faction that uses them.

It's too bad Corona is so rare in the IS.  The MPL in the prime variant makes a star of them one of the ultimate area denial units in the game. 
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 11 March 2024, 09:50:13
It's too bad Corona is so rare in the IS.  The MPL in the prime variant makes a star of them one of the ultimate area denial units in the game.
It would neither break the Commonwealth nor the League to have them as an addition. It would probably end up like the Quirinus on my bench, getting play but not every game (That is in games where BA is employed, especially scenario and campaign play). Combine players would love teaming them up with their suits.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Shin_Fenris on 12 March 2024, 06:15:34
...all they have to do is get the box of germanium ready, log on to chatterweb, place an order on Amazon IIC and wait 2-6 weeks for dropship to land

3150s are a great time to be alive.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 12 March 2024, 07:36:57
3150s are a great time to be alive.
It is too late, the Inner Sphere chassis has been augmented with Clan tech. Maybe not the Amazon specifically, but...
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 13 March 2024, 18:50:22
...So what did they give as a layout then? Curious minds want to know. :D
EDIT: Got permission. Just remember this isn't official canon, just headcanon of the author of that article.

(https://i.imgur.com/TAPSTCn.png)

Sariah Vozka's in the Centurion and Dyan Nova Cat was supposed to be in the Sarath B. I've agree to paint up the Supernova eventually once I get some other projects done.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: tassa_kay on 13 March 2024, 18:58:07
... so where the hell is Kara Fletcher supposed to be? Don't tell me she's been relegated to duty off the field of combat. That's so sad.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 13 March 2024, 19:53:20
... so where the hell is Kara Fletcher supposed to be? Don't tell me she's been relegated to duty off the field of combat. That's so sad.

She would be leading Spade Star as the Point one in the Rabid BA Point A. Since She's a Star Colonel she's in charge of the entire Supernova, and Spade Star rides Heart Star into battle.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2024, 22:23:19
Where are the Ogres?
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Minemech on 13 March 2024, 22:48:11
Where are the Ogres?
Dropship defense.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Spirit Cat Refugee on 24 March 2024, 09:41:54
So on Thursday there was a recent interview with Randall Bills where he said he's still working on a Nova Cat/Spirit Cats novel...

I think we'll be seeing Kisho again soon.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 24 March 2024, 10:35:29
So on Thursday there was a recent interview with Randall Bills where he said he's still working on a Nova Cat/Spirit Cats novel...

I think we'll be seeing Kisho again soon.

Good to know, wonder if it will lead to the Clan Protectorate becoming part of the new Star League and Clan Nova Cat being a recognised clan once again.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Geg on 24 March 2024, 15:56:06
So on Thursday there was a recent interview with Randall Bills where he said he's still working on a Nova Cat/Spirit Cats novel...

I think we'll be seeing Kisho again soon.

It's great...  but I am also having flashbacks to exactly what it took to get the Founding of the Clans.
Title: Re: Clan Protectorate
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 March 2024, 17:31:49
It's great...  but I am also having flashbacks to exactly what it took to get the Founding of the Clans.

Lol, I regularly posted on that . . .