X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?

[DarkSpade]

I feel bad if I win because of a silly mistake like that.

I've only played casual so it's always been a good laugh for both sides.  Like Boba Fett's contract ran out half way through the fight so he left.

[Daemion]

Okay. How do the ships in the fleet action game scale? Are they to a scale, or merely proportional?

One of the drawbacks to the larger ships for X-Wing was that they had to make them smaller than the scale of the fighters and smaller large ships.

[MAD-4A]

Okay. How do the ships in the fleet action game scale? Are they to a scale, or merely proportional?

One of the drawbacks to the larger ships for X-Wing was that they had to make them smaller than the scale of the fighters and smaller large ships.

I haven't seen them, can't find any around here. Looking at the pics, it looks like the fighters may be a bit big. Remember the Imp SD is a mile long & the Supper SD is way bigger (forget the DS or the Eclipse) so, for any game to have them on a board, the fighters would be smaller than a pinhead to be proportional.

[guardiandashi]

from what I saw (thinking it was a video ... the ties are somewhere around .5ish to ~1 inch cubes.
the cap ships were closer to ~2-3 in long .. so they definitely aren't in scale fighters to caps, however the fighters may be roughly 1 scale and caps are roughly a second scale.

[DarkSpade]

I think the fighters are more of a fancy token than they are a model.

[Daemion]

from what I saw (thinking it was a video ... the ties are somewhere around .5ish to ~1 inch cubes.
the cap ships were closer to ~2-3 in long .. so they definitely aren't in scale fighters to caps, however the fighters may be roughly 1 scale and caps are roughly a second scale.

Actually, I see my question was a little misleading. I want to know if the Cap ships look like they're to-scale with each other, or merely proportional. I get that the fighters aren't going to be anywhere close, there's just no way. I know, I've tried kit-bashing some 1/2500ish scale ties. I just want to know if a rebel blockade runner will actually fit inside an ImpStar's primary docking bay if I hold the two up to eachother.

Thanks.

[Stormlion1]

I doubt scale will be an issue. There representations but will not be too scale. I mean if they wanted to sell Imp II's they would probably cost like fifty bucks per ship and a Super Star Destroyer three hundred if they wanted them to scale. My money is on they will be about the same size as the last Star Wars fleet based game was.

[Charlie 6]

Actually, I see my question was a little misleading. I want to know if the Cap ships look like they're to-scale with each other, or merely proportional. I get that the fighters aren't going to be anywhere close, there's just no way. I know, I've tried kit-bashing some 1/2500ish scale ties. I just want to know if a rebel blockade runner will actually fit inside an ImpStar's primary docking bay if I hold the two up to eachother.

Thanks.

It won't fit.  There is a sliding scale of sorts between small, medium, and large ships which is as yet is undefined. The whole point is to have a game that looks good and is functional. Perfect scale isn't part of the equation for the publisher.

See Fantasy Flight Games forums for more confusion, frustration, and disinformation.

S/F

Matt

[Weirdo]

Very few space combat game systems have a true constant scale. Either you have ships that are very close to each other in size so the size difference isn't much of a problem, or things get really bulky at the upper and lower ends.

I've seen constant scale Star Wars ships. Corellian Corvettes are so small as to be almost unusable, and Star Destroyers are immense. Stormlion1's comment about the cost of an SSD is not an exaggeration, it is the literal and exact truth.

[Charlie 6]

I agree with you Weirdo, but much of the vocal Fantasy Flight Games forum community thinks scale is the end all be all.  Humorously, the designers don't seem to care.

S/F

Matt

[Stormlion1]

They can't care, if they did they would both put a nail in the games coffin or they would tear there hair out! Look at this way. They make that to-scale Super Star Destroyer. They have two options. Limited quantities and everyone complains because they missed out or general production and they sell badly because no one can afford a three hundred dollar model.

[Weirdo]

A lot of starship gamers are really big on it. Me, I'm okay with sliding scales when the relative sizes of ships call for it. For example, I prefer a hard scale for Star Trek minis, since most ships in a given era tend to be of a similar size, or at least close enough that it's not a big bother. It's possible to have a decent-sized Defiant without an obscenely large Galaxy, though the D'deridex has to be done on a sliding scale, lest it take up half the table. DS9 or any major Borg vessel is definitely right out. Conversely, can you imagine Battletech aero minis done on a fixed scale, one big enough for DropShips to be recognizable? WarShips would be a LOT larger and more expensive than they are now, and the odds of a Newgrange miniature(or anything else with an internal repair bay) would be literally zero, as opposed to merely rather low(improving, now the Fan Financing is coming back).

They can't care, if they did they would both put a nail in the games coffin or they would tear there hair out! Look at this way. They make that to-scale Super Star Destroyer. They have two options. Limited quantities and everyone complains because they missed out or general production and they sell badly because no one can afford a three hundred dollar model.

That's the exact situation with the actual 1/20,000 scale SSDs that have been produced. Very low production runs, and like I said, you are exactly correct on the price. (And since Lucasfilms has never even heard of the manufacturers, that's the last I'll discuss 'em here.)

[Stormlion1]

A lot of starship gamers are really big on it. Me, I'm okay with sliding scales when the relative sizes of ships call for it. For example, I prefer a hard scale for Star Trek minis, since most ships in a given era tend to be of a similar size, or at least close enough that it's not a big bother. It's possible to have a decent-sized Defiant without an obscenely large Galaxy, though the D'deridex has to be done on a sliding scale, lest it take up half the table. DS9 or any major Borg vessel is definitely right out. Conversely, can you imagine Battletech aero minis done on a fixed scale, one big enough for DropShips to be recognizable? WarShips would be a LOT larger and more expensive than they are now, and the odds of a Newgrange miniature(or anything else with an internal repair bay) would be literally zero, as opposed to merely rather low(improving, now the Fan Financing is coming back).

That's the exact situation with the actual 1/20,000 scale SSDs that have been produced. Very low production runs, and like I said, you are exactly correct on the price. (And since Lucasfilms has never even heard of the manufacturers, that's the last I'll discuss 'em here.)

Actually they make a set of scale DS9 figures and a Borg Cube. There huge in comparison to the ships from the game.

[Weirdo]

Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0

I am intrigued by the other Borg offerings from that set, though. Big enough to look threatening on the tabletop, but not so much that their use is impractical.

[Øystein]

Let me known when I can fight the Battle of Endor with the Star Wars Armada figures :D

[Stormlion1]

Let me known when I can fight the Battle of Endor with the Star Wars Armada figures :D

Now that would be epic. The Empire had what, Twenty Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer besides the Death Star at Endor?

[MAD-4A]

Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0

I am intrigued by the other Borg offerings from that set, though. Big enough to look threatening on the tabletop, but not so much that their use is impractical.

they should dominate the board. "My borg cube against you 7 entire fleets!" (best ST episode ever: Klingon fleet Vs DS9)

[MAD-4A]

Now that would be epic. The Empire had what, Twenty Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer besides the Death Star at Endor?

i don't think there's any specific data on just how many ships were used but I think it was more than 20 Imp SDs and a bunch of the Immobilizer 418 "Interdictor" cruisers + Victory's.

[I am Belch II]

i don't think there's any specific data on just how many ships were used but I think it was more than 20 Imp SDs and a bunch of the Immobilizer 418 "Interdictor" cruisers + Victory's.

I always thought it was closer to 40 ISD's alone. With one SSD that would take up a whole board.

[Weirdo]

they should dominate the board

With one SSD that would take up a whole board.

Dominating a fight, yes. But when the mini is so big that there's no room to maneuver around it, the game stops being fun.

[Stormlion1]

Need some big tables I would think. What's worse its kind of obvious the two fleets were moving towards each other so the Executor didn't just sit there.

[MAD-4A]

Need some big tables I would think. What's worse its kind of obvious the two fleets were moving towards each other so the Executor didn't just sit there.

A) a convention room - empty & B) no - the Imps were ordered to stay back. only the fighters engaged, the Rebels stayed out at first, till the DS opened fire, then charged into the SDs. They still would have been annihilated except that, when the Emperor was killed & the Executioner destroyed with Admiral Piett ("I don't want anything getting threw!") on board, it threw the fleet into confusion & it broke up & ran. The Rebs still managed to take out 2 Imp SD + the SSD in the action. I think Adm Akbar was wrong when he order them to fire on the SSD. if he had ordered the fleet to concentrate on the little stuff then the Imps would have lost a lot more & they might have taken out the Interdictors & been able to have their big ships run for it (the fighters have their own HDs to fallow later after getting clear of the DSs infrastructure). course nobody argues with success.

[Stormlion1]

Not sure, the SSD was Definatly under power when it collided with the Death Star. Sure Gravity might have pulled it in but to be driven into the Death Star like a spear? Probably because the engines were running and sped up the process. If not it should have taken a whole lot longer for gravity to do its work. Probably the chain of events was that the Imperial Fleet sat there until the DS opened fired then the Rebs moved in and everyone started maneuvering about.

[MAD-4A]

... the Rebs moved in and everyone started maneuvering about.

Well yea. If your being engaged, your not going to sit still as a setting duck (especially if you have a wide open butt like the Imp SDs  :)) ). Plus, the SSD was receiving concentrated fire, took critical damage to it's shields and was trying to extricate itself (the Interdicters work both ways).

[StoneRhino]

Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0

You mean hit up the back of your local grocery store, find the biggest cardboard box you can find, stuff into the trunk, head home, get it out, throw a bunch of glue on it, toss on any wires you may have from old electronics and any parts from electronics you smashed up good,allow to dry, throw black and grey paint on it, badda bing, borg cube, Resistance is futile.

[Weirdo]

Even less work than that. I googled "Borg papercraft" and printed out the first model that looked decent. Total investment was about three pages of cardstock and some printer ink, and I had a good Cube that dwarfs any other mini on the table, but is still small enough to be practical. O0

[Daemion]

Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0

That's when they no longer are playing pieces, but a part of the playmat, if you will. In fact, I liked that one of the maps you get for the old Clix Tactics Star Trek starter has a portion of the station taking up quite a bit of space. It's a terrain feature. The same could be said for a death star section or even the top or bottom of a Super SD. I never had the impression that the Super Star Desroyer was any kind of mobile in a space battle compared to other ships.

If something like the SSD or Borg Cube is on the move during a battle, it wouldn't be hard to come up with some Thunder Road style rules to deal with things sliding on and off the map in a particular direction. Seriously, there are ways to make scale work, still look good, and be functional. You just have to think outside the box and decide on what scale you want to play at.

For that matter, you can still have some sort of scale indicator in a representative game like the current game is looking to be, like a colored icon on the base or a line-up in the back of the rulebook, just for kicks. An imagination aid is what I'm usually after, something to help me picture things as they're supposed to be, even if the actual representation is expanded or shrunk for feasibility. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

But, as long as an Impstar is small than the SSD, and a blockade runner is smaller than an Impstar, and so on and so forth, I'll be happy.

[MAD-4A]

R.L.s Leviathan was intended as the original SW capital ship game. FASA threw scale completely out the window. 1 hex = 75km/45Mil, easily able to take even a SSD inside 1 hex (though the DS would take up more). The ships were set to different scales based on type. DDs & smaller (including groups of fighters) were 1 Hex, Frigates (larger than DDs) were 2 Hex, Cruisers were 3 Hex and Battleships were 4 Hex. There was no stacking limit. Weapon fire was measured from the ships nearest hex, unless the 2 ships overlap, then it's measured from the back hex.
A guy I use to game with screwed up bad with that once. We were playing the Kraken Adventure. He had the Kraken Squadron, I had the Renegades, I had decisive victories on the 1st 2 missions, leaving him in the lurch [fiddle] . When we played the 3rd mission, he had only the Kraken with no support ships. I had a super battleship (bigger than his) with cruiser escorts (the mission is that the Kraken gets ambushed). He only had to turn & leave the board but received points for staying and dealing damage. I received points for dealing damage to him. He got greedy & closed. He tried to pull a maneuver where he overlapped the Kraken across my Battleship & declared he was rolling ship to fire down, claiming I couldn't fire "up" at him. Should have read the rules  ::) . I pointed out that fire is measured from the rear Hex, [legal] which means (as we were setting) bow to bow. As my Battleships bow fire, my Cruisers broadside & several hundred fighters at point blank range all combined into his bow armor, I damaged his aft armor  :o !
Actually I blew off my own battleships bow half (& destroyed all my own fighters)...using his main reactor [face palm] .
Kraken destroyed, Admiral killed, campaign VERY over.

[Weirdo]

Thread resurrection!

My wife gave me a handful of TIEs for Christmas, so I'll finally have a chance to get into this game. However, once I actually get the core box, my Imperials will outnumber my Rebels five to one. Not a problem for game store matches since I can find Rebel-leaning people to play against, but it does make playing at home difficult. Does anyone know of a box set or something I can get that would let me build up a respectable Rebel squad for cheaper than buying a bunch of fighters singly?

[Rebel Yell]

Rebel Aces will give you an A wing and a B wing, but all the other packs are singles.