Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors

[Kovax]

But I'm ok with the panther since it may be slow but compared to most mechs in it the same weight area it packs the most punch and pirates don't like scary big boom badda boom stuff. I word hope since the arbiter proves pirates don't like scary things. If I were a pirate I would be like hey its a panther let's swarm than poof.

"Bob! Bob is down run! Back to the dropship!"

But that's mho of how the knight errant and pirates would react but if you want the knight errant to lose go ahead that's your game I'm ok with that but remember man we have our games and well they well run differently and with the power of RNJesus even then it could be anything how it ends.

I'm NOT "OK" with the Panther, because I know how easily I can take one down with almost ANY Medium 'Mech.  I've killed several Panthers with Locusts or Stingers, and heaven help you if the pirate leader shows up in a Heavy, because you can't outrun it.  PPC?  Nice, here's TWO of them!

The minimum range modifier on the PPC and the torso-mounted missile rack means that covering your back arc is "iffy" at best.  Where do you think any self-respecting Spider or Locust pilot is going to park his ride?  Say "bye-bye" to those ammo bins, and hope that you ran them empty due to a local SRM shortage before you took that hit to the back.

Give me a  PXH-anything, HER-2S (or -2M, even better), WLF-1, JR-7F, or even a FS-9A (SLs, rather than MGs, so no ammo to worry about).  You've got better firepower than whatever can catch you (unless they've got their own decently powerful speedster), and better speed than whatever can outgun you.  Armor is respectably thick, and your weapons loadout is primarily energy-based.  If the pirates show up with a lance of bug-'Mechs and/or vehicles, you can take them on piecemeal in a running fight, with a decent chance of winning.

If the pirates show up with a couple of 4/6 movement Heavies or even 5/8 Mediums, you can maintain your watch from a safe distance, and there's nothing they can do about it.  If they drop their guard to loot, split up, or carry stuff, they're suddenly vulnerable to an attack, and they know it.

The Panther leaves the initiative entirely in their hands.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Not if they bring an UrbanMech. :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

Then they're doomed, because Urbie > all. ;)

[Kovax]

Not if they bring an UrbanMech. :)

Oh no, I completely forgot about the Urbanmech.  That obviously negates any arguments, and trumps whatever plans were made beforehand.  That 10-point weapon threat is fully reversible, and the 'Mech can torso twist, offering a full 360 degree firing arc with no minimum range.  Forget about attacking it with a bug 'Mech, because it's suicide.  Unless someone brings an Imp (what an Urbanmech becomes when it grows up) to deal with it, they're screwed.

[Koren-Gagin]

Oh no, I completely forgot about the Urbanmech.  That obviously negates any arguments, and trumps whatever plans were made beforehand.  That 10-point weapon threat is fully reversible, and the 'Mech can torso twist, offering a full 360 degree firing arc with no minimum range.  Forget about attacking it with a bug 'Mech, because it's suicide.  Unless someone brings an Imp (what an Urbanmech becomes when it grows up) to deal with it, they're screwed.

Than just bring more urbies or take yor urbie to the mech trainer to level him up to imp. URBIE upgrades to IMP!

[akodo]

Knight Errant in the romance novel was often accompanied by his faithful young squire, or sometimes the old servant/tutor who had been at his side since childhood.

The real Knight Errant was more wandering around because he was the 2nd or 3rd son and when Dad died older brother inherited everything except for his personal armaments, some horses, and a purse of gold, so he was out to find his way in the world.  Keep in mind such a knight would have his war horse, a riding horse, and probably a couple pack horses, a squire, a few general man-at-arms (a couple guys with helmets and spears, or maybe a few bowmen) and a couple servants.  It wasn't really a lone figure.

I expect the Battletech equivalent was a mechwarrior, his mech, and a couple technicians for repairs, and probably a couple of people who just oversaw the logistics of the small band = cooking, cleaning, fetching things, repairing non-mech stuff that broke, etc.

Also, a mechwarrior needs to get his mech there somehow.  An errant mechwarrior isn't going to have his own jumpship and his own dropship.   He's going to be limited to worlds that have a spaceport, find where a cargo ship or something is going and pay to have them include his mech and team.  This means there is going to be SOME commerce going on.  He may have 4 tons of LRM ammo in a stash someplace, uses 2 tons and then orders 2 more at the local spaceport.  It may take a few months possibly maybe a year, but he was able to deliver his mech there, he's going to be able to get other items delivered as well.

Still, relying mainly on energy weapons is going to be the smart move

[akodo]

A bigger question might be how errant mechs get created in the first place.  Armies are usually loathe to allow a major piece of military equipment to walk off (or be secreted out of) a base, nevertheless launched offworld and jumped into the unknown Periphery.  And it's hard to see how a mechwarrior who owns his ride and is rich enough to afford interstellar shipping to a very out-of-the-way world would choose to spend his riches on the errant lifestyle in retirement.  Even if seeking solace from PTSD, setting oneself up to take on annual bandit raids singlehandedly seems like a bad way to deal with the psychological scars of warfare. 

You make a good point about how often someone is going to be able to walk off with millions of credits worth of military gear.

I think the most likely avenues are mechwarriors that were part of mercinary units that sustained enough losses to dissolve.  This might not be a lot, if the band is held together by a charismatic leader who catches an AC/20 with his cockpit, everyone else might go on their own.  If we have mechs coming from a feudal system, then too with the death of a leader you might have a few that break away and do their own thing going knight errant.  The more organized units directly serving one of the big houses, probably not a good chance they'd ever go knight errant, but some possibilities are their unit was thought to be wiped out, but in reality there is one mechwarrior left.  Stuck behind enemy lines, he says F You for abandoning him to trying to return to formalized service, and yet hates plus needs to hide from the conquerors.  So he gathers up support staff that was probably also abandoned, a bit of battlefield salvage for spare parts, and takes a space-train home or just to a fringe world where he views the people as being the same citizenry as himself but one with no official governmental or military presence.

[solmanian]

Well, how I understand it works in BT pretty much from the reunification wars, the militaries were just fine with someone taking his all but obsolete machine instead of having to pay him a pension for the next 40-60 years. It happens especially at the end of wars, when there's a massive demobilization. As for why it would fly in the succession wars time, when battlemechs were at a premium? In a homage to the customs of chivalry of old, if you down a battlemech and it can be salvaged in good shape (like after a head shot), you get to keep what you kill. You see some of the more successful MechWarrior families keeping a "stable" of a couple of spare machines, in case the family mech goes kaput.

In places like the DCMS, where the MechWarrior and his ride are suppose to be as one, they would probably have to pry it from his cold dead fingers.

[RunandFindOut]

The real Knight Errant was more wandering around because he was the 2nd or 3rd son and when Dad died older brother inherited everything except for his personal armaments, some horses, and a purse of gold, so he was out to find his way in the world.

And just as many were first sons but of fiefs that were so small or poor they couldn't really support a knight.  So they gathered a couple of their trusted men and went out looking to bring in money to keep the fief afloat via ransom, prize, and war loot.

[Von Jankmon]

Best ride for an errant:

Phoenix Hawk PXH-1
- Basic technology, all energy except for machine guns. Machine gun ammo is plentiful and useful allowing for what the errant will be mostly facing.


Best ride for his squire:

Stinger-3R
- No nonsense design that can keep up.



Romantic reputation aside an errant is likely a deserter or someone who missed an evac and ended up wandering.  Either than or a fugitive who kept on running.  Both might want to make a different name fro themselves once they get to the periphery.  There may well be a quiet agreement amongst law enforcement that if a mechwarrior goes into the deep periphery and becomes and errant rather than a pirate they will be left alone unless they have committed a heinous offense, and their past will not be exposed.  Errants help keep the periphery border clear.

[Kovax]

Historically, most errant knights were younger sons of a noble.  The eldest son inherited the title and land, while the younger son(s) got whatever they managed to obtain as a gift (often a weapon, some armor, and a horse) from their father before his death.  Their only chances of regaining status as landed nobles were by winning tournaments for the hand of a widow (and her land) or taking and being granted a title to land in a war.

In the BT universe, I would assume that the "younger son" situation would again play a leading factor, although former military or mercenary Mechwarriors who managed to obtain a 'Mech (legally or otherwise) would likely be a significant addition.  In virtually all cases, there is nothing for them to go back to.  On a minor border or periphery planet, they can be a "de facto" lord and protector, but without any official sanction behind it.

[solmanian]

In MechWarrior families, I don't see the family getting a "younger son" (or other scions) his own mech. In MechWarrior families, the pilot of the family's mech, is the defacto head of the family (including the extended family). Of course this scions would still get preference when trying to get into a military academy and receive a battlemech through military service.

In not so minor noble families, things would be different. The holder of the highest title (say a duke), is the head of the extended family; giving and rebuking barony titles to his siblings and cousins, and even holding some tenues dominion over the lesser cadet lines (headed by counts and below, but are usually controlling their own planets, which aren't necessarily part of his territory). While they would have the resources to provide a scion with a ride, they would probably prefer to use their clout to arrange for him a military commission and battalion or regiment command, which in turn will increase the family's overall influence far more than bankrolling a roaming vigilante.

[jackson123]

Now maybe if the noble family has more then one mech then younger children would have the option of piloting mechs.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Right.  The oldest inherits dad's Marauder, and the youngest gets to rebuild the salvaged Panther he brought home last year.  :-\


I've only just remembered, there's an errant mechwarrior of sorts mentioned in TRO 3058: he drives a Nightstar.

[solmanian]

It's a little more complex than that. It's not unusual for successful families to keep "spares". In case the family mech is destroyed, the family devotes their resources to replacing it; preferably having one or more on stand-by. If another family member acquires a battlemech (like the doing it the "hard way", through enlistment into the army) than he starts his own cadet line (same as for example of a noble scion who gets appointed as a noble ruler of a planet by the house lord). I'd imagine that there's leeway, in case the MechWarrior captures a superior machine (say the family mech is a centurion, and he captures an Atlas); he might decide to upgrade (many don't), but there's no point for it just sitting and collecting dust.

Also, about the inheritance. In principle, it's not a direct line of succession; though of course it's not unheard of a son inheriting his father's machine. If he's alive, as the head of the family, he probably has a huge weight in choosing his successor. But in principle, all the children of the extended family are trained from an early age, and are tested for the position (which makes them also excellent candidates for academies...); the idea is to find the candidate that has the best chance to add glory to the family - though one can simply appoint his son, many will consider it a betrayal of the family if he didn't at least gone through the motions to prove he's the superior inheritor. It's likely that the holder of the mech stacks the odds at his progeny favour by giving him more opportunities for "hands on" experience, while the rest rely mostly on simulators.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Is that headcanon, or do you have a reference for it?  Neofeudalism isn't necessarily identical to medieval feudalism, but that's...not really how it usually worked in the old system.  The eldest son inherited by virtue of being the eldest son, period.  It seems to me that BT usually follows this pattern the vast majority of the time.  How often do we see a noble cut their eldest child out of the Succession for a sibling or more distant relative?  Harrison Davion inteded to, and the Mariks have done so on occasion, but the examples of that sort of thing in BT are quite rare with the families we get any detail on.  I'm not sure why it would be the case for the families we don't get detail on.

[solmanian]

Is that headcanon, or do you have a reference for it?  Neofeudalism isn't necessarily identical to medieval feudalism, but that's...not really how it usually worked in the old system.  The eldest son inherited by virtue of being the eldest son, period.  It seems to me that BT usually follows this pattern the vast majority of the time.  How often do we see a noble cut their eldest child out of the Succession for a sibling or more distant relative?  Harrison Davion inteded to, and the Mariks have done so on occasion, but the examples of that sort of thing in BT are quite rare with the families we get any detail on.  I'm not sure why it would be the case for the families we don't get detail on.

Not exactly headcanon, as much as deduction from given sources. From the new CM: Mercs :
"When a MechWarrior died, his ’Mech passed to an heir. Knowing this, parents began training their children in BattleMech operation at very young ages. Those who showed the most promise received intense training in their teen years, including simulator training, mock battles, and live-fire drills. The best of these teenagers were admitted to prestigious MechWarrior academies."

The bolded part implies that mechwarrior training and ownership isn't simply passed downed in a straight line to the next in line. Mechwarrior family are more than feudal knights, they are also a franchise; especially in the BTverse, the right name can open doors and bestow power. The family has to make sure they are properly represented; if they stop producing good mechwarriors, it hurts the whole family.

The senior mechwarrior holds a lot of power, and he can stack the odds in his son favour. But for big and old families, there would be a lot of cousins eying the position. Once the senior mechwarrior is dead however, his power becomes only sentimental. You'll have different branches of the family vying for the political power that comes from being the new pilot; but the on the overall, it would be in the family interest to have the most telanted candidate. depedning on the famliy, that could mean a smooth transition from father to son. It mostly depend on the overall power of the family. The endgame would be to reach straight up noble status, where the battlemech becomes a marginal part of their pwoer compared to their estates. In a lowly famliy, where being the battlemech pilot is the difference between being somebody or being a nobody commoner, I'd expect there would be stiff competition, with brother pitted against brother, to the point of even fratricidal violence. It also depdnds on the availability of battlemechs: if the other siblings are confident that they can simply join a national academy and fulfill their potential as mechwarriors, they'd have no reason not to simply shrug and say "Buh! I'll start my own mechwarrior family! with BlackJacks and hookers!".

[Arkansas Warrior]

I think you're reading too much into that one line.  Almost everywhere else I've ever seen where we have any detail, the fief passes to the eldest child.  Janos disinheriting Therese and Harrison intending to disinherit Caleb are the only counterexamples that come to mind, though I'm sure there are a few others.  I can't see there being constant fratricidal warfare somewhere in the nation as families fight over who gets to be the heir.  In feudalism these things are usually clearly delineated, in a will if nothing else.  I'm not saying it never happens, but I can't see it being common for families to disregard the head's wishes and start fighting over the succession as soon as his body's cold.  How often has that actually happened in the fiction?

[solmanian]

You keep equating battlemechs with land...

The metaphor of giving the second born a horse and armor as consolation for not getting land, is upside down. The "horse" i.e. battlemech, is more important than some mansion or manor. Nobles will gladly give you land if you bring your mech along. If you have a mech battalion a house lord will gladly give you your own planet; it won't be a fancy planet, but it'll be yours.

Unlike a piece of land, where you can hire an administrator to run things while you go live in your cottage at a much better planet, military hardware is another thing. Skill means a lot more than simply being next in line. Look at various commands, mercenary, national and privately owned. More often than not, leadership of the command doesn't pass directly to the son, but rather to the XO, or one of the battalion commanders. Will the son be given a place, even in a minor command position? Sure. Might he be able to climb to command of the entire unit? Why not.

Many of the cases where the battlemech is passed directly to the son, is when there simply isn't anyone else to challenge it. Also post clan invasion, heirlooms mechs aren't what they used to be, often heavily outclassed by newer machines.

Discussing Marik and Davion succession in length would be way off-topic for this thread, so I'll just say that when it comes to the throne of a house lord, a clear and predetermined line of succession is a matter of national stability; you want the transition of power to be as smooth as possible, not start a civil war every time a house lord dies, which often already a time of crisis which needs not be exacerbated.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Several points here.  A mercenary unit isn't necessarily a feudal organization.  The unit CO is the boss, he doesn't hold the unit as a vassal of anyone.  Therefore, if he doesn't want to pass it to a blood heir, he doesn't have to.  Many units do, many units don't.  Likewise the mercenaries in the unit aren't vassals of the CO.  If he appoints an incompetent successor, they can leave.  As such, there's good incentive not to pass the unit to an inexperienced or incompetent heir, at least not immediately.

I'm not equating mechs with land exactly, but there is usually a strong link, especially at lower levels; the noble is granted land in return for service, usually as a mechwarrior.  If the noble can no longer provided the required service or cannot effectively rule their fief, they're likely in danger of losing said fief.  The two go hand in hand.  The idea of simply giving the mech to the best pilot would be as likely to get the family stripped of lands & title for incompetent rule as giving the mech to an incompetent pilot would get lands & title stripped for not fulfilling military obligations.  Also, I doubt you'd find historical cases, or many parents who'd wish to strip their children of their inheritance.  Besides, was every member of the extended family trained from birth to possibly inherit the fief?  The best mechwarrior might be a completely incompetent Lord.  I don't think it's realistic at all to think a noble could just hire someone to rule their fief and not need to do so themselves.  Again, I don't know of any historical or canon precedent for that.  I doubt their noble superior is going to accept "The guy I hired to do my job screwed it up."  That's a good way to get stripped of your title.  I could perhaps see the mech being loaned out to an aunt/uncle or cousin or niece/nephew, etc if the noble ruler was incapable of piloting for some reason, but not the designated mechwarrior being given the title as well.  That's completely foreign to any depiction of feudalism or neofeudalism I've seen.

Is there any canon precedent for property being held communally by an extended family?  That's how I'm understanding the argument here, that whoever in the whole family is the best warrior inherits the mech and the fief as a whole each generation.  Is that what you're saying?  I can't think of any example of that happening.

I think that when it comes to succession disputes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.  Sure, the House Lord wants an established succesion so as to prevent fratricidal conflict, but so would lower-ranking nobles.  The danger of fratricide doesn't disappear because the inheritance is a resource-poor continent on some Outback world instead of a whole realm.  In fact, if a family had such a conflict it'd be a pretty good reason to strip them of lands & title and give it to a more deserving ruler.  As it says in Handbook House Davion:

A noble leader has the right to remove from power nobles subordinate to them, subject to the approval of his or her direct superior, bestowing that noble title upon the successor. In cases where an entire noble family is implicated in wrongdoing or shown to be incapable of governing their landhold, that family may be stripped of its title

[solmanian]

I started a new thread to discuss this:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50252.0

[Giovanni Blasini]

Right.  The oldest inherits dad's Marauder, and the youngest gets to rebuild the salvaged Panther he brought home last year.  :-\


I've only just remembered, there's an errant mechwarrior of sorts mentioned in TRO 3058: he drives a Nightstar.

"Rattlesnake Jack" Culpepper.  Just read his entry, and, yeah, that's an awesome example.

[Lord greystroke]

yes "Rattlesnake Jack" Culpepper is a great example of a errant one can imagine the minor pirate bands avoiding the 95 ton assault mech

[Intermittent_Coherence]

I suppose that's one of the upsides of using a heavier chassis.

Shorter firefights tend to mean more salvage. So even if you only have one assault to hand off to your heir, chances are, you'll have that medium on the side that you've been rebuilding with salvage for your spare.

[nightcall]

I've played a few games, both MW3 and straight Battletech on this premise.
one thing I've used a lot of that doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far is Working Passage; in the periphery, especially the meaner, independent sort of parts, a DropShip on the ground is a very, very rich target for local bandits, who might be able to muster a tank or two or even a mech for that sort of thing. Thus, a wandering mechwarrior with his own machine could very easily find a merchant crew who'd be willing to trade mech protection on the ground for carrying a mech that is likely to be barely 1% of their total cargo space (assuming a Mule or Jumbo, some of the most common cargo haulers way out in the periphery. Even on a Buccaneer, it's only 4%, or less). so that's a good way for toshiro mifune in a mech to get about. hell, I've even had more than a few lance-sized merc units working passage from point-to-point to avoid paying twice as much as the contract's worth in transport fees
Plus, the merchant connection would work somewhat for the supply issues; picking that sort of gear up on their last visit to the TC or FS or wherever they're buying whatever they're carrying out to the independent worlds wouldn't cost much compared to what they make, and would very much improve their chances of picking up some security for their next run.

[Comedian]

....take yor urbie to the mech trainer to level him up to imp. URBIE upgrades to IMP!

I am sooo stealing this for a sig....

[DOC_Agren]

I know it has been a while but I just saw this vehicle and think something like this would be perfect for a Errant Mechwarrior operating nearly alone out there.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58883.0

[Giovanni Blasini]

Yeah, I think MechWarrior 3 showed how valuable a good MFB can be, but I'm worried something like that becomes a valuable target for raiders and bandits.