Author Topic: Who killed Morgan?  (Read 29914 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25626
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #90 on: 01 February 2018, 16:46:46 »
The problem with that is that there's still no evidence that the Nekekami had any connection to him.

Also, the whole idea that offing himself would somehow help the task force instead of making things that much harder for it to accomplish without his leadership and with the added paranoia his assassination would cause.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5842
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #91 on: 01 February 2018, 17:11:59 »
The most compelling evidence I've seen suggests Word of Blake.

He was poisoned when he had his nightly drink of a specific brand of whiskey.

In the opening fiction of Field Manual: ComStar, two high level Word of Blake officials (going off memory here - Precentor Martial and aide) get into a hover limo and crow about success in pacifying Terra.  One offers the other a drink, and the response is "as long as it isn't [brand of whiskey that killed Morgan]."  Both laugh, then open the liquor cabinet in the limo, see a note there that gives them a brown-robe moment, and then blow sky high.

The main context of the scene is to dramatize the Master's work to rub out members of rival Word of Blake factions and consolidate his faction's control once Terra is back in Blakist hands.  However, the in-joke between the Precentor Martial and his aide suggest that they knew the details of how Morgan was poisoned, implying that either they orchestrated the plan, or knew who did to a sufficient extent that they knew all the details. 

Motivation - the Word of Blake wanted to amass a giant secret army, present it to the Star League after the Third Peaceful Transfer of Power, and then lead the charge to annihilate the Clans, becoming heroes of the Inner Sphere, and positioning themselves to lead Humanity to a glorious future under Blake.  The last thing they want would be for Morgan to lead TASK FORCE SERPENT to successfully remove the Clan threat before the secret army is ready and the Third Transfer has come to pass - that steals their thunder.  They figured Morgan was the only thing holding the multi-national task force together, and his murder has the greatest potential to make it end in failure.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Sciobtha

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #92 on: 01 February 2018, 17:30:14 »
The problem with that is that there's still no evidence that the Nekekami had any connection to him.

Also, the whole idea that offing himself would somehow help the task force instead of making things that much harder for it to accomplish without his leadership and with the added paranoia his assassination would cause.

As I said, still haven't found a why, but why do you say no connection to the nekekami? Shortly before he dies, the mission leader gets the activation memo on the invisible truth, though we aren't given mission details.

There are 5 crewman in the task force with no record of existence, including Julia Davis, or as I call her, miss poison pants :P

Don't forget the shuriken that was thrown in Penrose's back coated in one of the most potent natural poisons known in all the Inner Sphere


The most compelling evidence I've seen suggests Word of Blake.

He was poisoned when he had his nightly drink of a specific brand of whiskey.

In the opening fiction of Field Manual: ComStar, two high level Word of Blake officials (going off memory here - Precentor Martial and aide) get into a hover limo and crow about success in pacifying Terra.  One offers the other a drink, and the response is "as long as it isn't [brand of whiskey that killed Morgan]."  Both laugh, then open the liquor cabinet in the limo, see a note there that gives them a brown-robe moment, and then blow sky high.

The main context of the scene is to dramatize the Master's work to rub out members of rival Word of Blake factions and consolidate his faction's control once Terra is back in Blakist hands.  However, the in-joke between the Precentor Martial and his aide suggest that they knew the details of how Morgan was poisoned, implying that either they orchestrated the plan, or knew who did to a sufficient extent that they knew all the details. 

Motivation - the Word of Blake wanted to amass a giant secret army, present it to the Star League after the Third Peaceful Transfer of Power, and then lead the charge to annihilate the Clans, becoming heroes of the Inner Sphere, and positioning themselves to lead Humanity to a glorious future under Blake.  The last thing they want would be for Morgan to lead TASK FORCE SERPENT to successfully remove the Clan threat before the secret army is ready and the Third Transfer has come to pass - that steals their thunder.  They figured Morgan was the only thing holding the multi-national task force together, and his murder has the greatest potential to make it end in failure.

can't really see it being the wobbies either. At least not from the scene you present. Both comstar and WOB both have very good intel ops so knowing how Morgan died, even not having been privy to the actual attempt is not at all surprising, especially after whoever was left of the 55K people on task force serpent got back to IS, word would spread pretty quick, and the steward at least knew cause of death.

As you point out, him doing so believing it would serve the task force better than to continue living is hard to believe, but it did have that affect. As well the foreshadowing of Morgan's impending death, even when the story is being told from his perspective, is hard to discount. I have the how, just need the why.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25626
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #93 on: 01 February 2018, 18:06:53 »
As I said, still haven't found a why, but why do you say no connection to the nekekami? Shortly before he dies, the mission leader gets the activation memo on the invisible truth, though we aren't given mission details.

There are 5 crewman in the task force with no record of existence, including Julia Davis, or as I call her, miss poison pants :P

Don't forget the shuriken that was thrown in Penrose's back coated in one of the most potent natural poisons known in all the Inner Sphere

None of which actually demonstrates evidence that they were responsible for his death.  And it especially fails to demonstrate that it was all some sort of elaborate suicide scheme by Morgan.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

JadedFalcon

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 868
  • Wins at Battleteching
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #94 on: 02 February 2018, 03:11:31 »
The notion of Morgan Hasek-Davion offing himself is interesting. How do we know he wasn't killed earlier and replaced with a double, who was then killed?

I've been a proponent of the Word of Blake plot, since not only does it attempt to derail the Comstar-led efforts against the Clans, but also creates factionalism in the former FedSuns. George Hasek was not as blindly loyal as his father, and had his own agendas and goals.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2445
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #95 on: 02 February 2018, 16:32:09 »
I just read through this thread and I realize it's been almost 20 years since I read Twilight of the Clans.  Holy crap.

I'm going to go out on a limb, just to be different, and say that the assassin was a loyalist to Ryan Steiner.  Just as a big middle finger to Victor.  Because why not.

pensiveswetness

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1039
  • Delete this account, please?
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #96 on: 02 February 2018, 21:31:28 »
It's also been 25 years since Ground Hog Day was released... for what it's worth.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28957
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #97 on: 12 February 2018, 20:30:25 »
Do this Sherlock style . . .

Motive
Opportunity
Means

Motive . . . well, lots of folks have motive as has been discussed here but IMO the big ones in order would be Katherine, followed closely (or maybe surpassed) by Sun Tzu and finally Blakist.  The Blakists I think have the weakest motive since its just 'chaos' but this is a point where the Blakists are working to get into the Star League and see it as a sign of their divine plan.

Opportunity- ComStar, covert Blakists in ComStar, AFFS staffers of his command, LIC/Loki
     The poisoned drink was in his cabin.  IIRC the zero-G bulb also showed the traces, I do not think they could point to it being either the bottle or the bulb where the poison was introduced.  So, it would have had to be someone who had or could fabricate legitimate business on Truth and to be in the flag quarters section.  I do not think he had guards posted at his door (which would be why old sailing captains & admirals had marines posted at their doors) so anyone who could find themselves in the area could make a run at the door locks.  And if they got that far they would have the tools to enter the cabin.  This gives us the first three in order.
     LIC/Loki . . . if the poison some how made it from IIRC Glengarry all the way to the battlecruiser without being tested it COULD have been poisoned at the distillery or enroute to Morgan.  IMO this is extremely unlikely (hello, food tasters!) as there is a reason nobility has been testing their food since poisons entered political discourse.  But its BT where practical actions do not always happen . . .

Means-  Who has the ability to pull off such a murder?
     Word of Blake, ComStar, Sun-Tzu, Katherine
     As the super-able bad guys of the time, the Word of Blake had all the high tech toys- ability to falsify credentials, electronic door picks, ROM's old databases with perhaps security overrides for ComStar ships, and methods of defeating seals on containers without leaving a trace.  ComStar ROM could likely lay claim to the same things but they were shown to be a tad inept after the best left for Word of Blake.  Also, both Word of Blake & ComStar would have the easiest time of putting together a action cell in Serpent or even on Truth unlike other possible actors- multiple agents attempting the assassination presents its own complications compared to a individual effort but it comes down to the plan.
     Sun-Tzu would have the chops for a single agent effort IMO.  In fact, being the Sun Tzu and having access to the communication and planning of the expedition would also give any assassin he sent a slight advantage over Katherine or anyone else outside of ComStar/WoB.  And while we do not get a lot of looks at how Sun-Tzu has used his covert operations, we do have two glaring examples . . . Loren Jaffray was sent to disrupt the Highlanders' place in the AFFC and the 2nd Blackwind Lancers CO who was a deep cover operative.  If you consider his motive strong enough to be playing the long game of weakening the AFFC, then it DOES follow those operational patterns.
     Katherine has relied (or over-relied) on covert operations to allow her the public face of the peacemaker.  Her propensity for assassins to solve problems is also well known so it fits her behavioral pattern.  A enemy (by her definition) was out from behind much of his security in a different environment with a lot of 3rd party individuals present . . . which is a opportunity with a higher chance of success than trying to kill someone on their home grounds (Hello George).  In fact, I think that she had a Ops Plan in place to end George on New Syrtis is a good indicator that she had Morgan on her 'to die' list.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7856
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #98 on: 12 February 2018, 22:34:44 »
I feel like I should point out that the Word of Blake was never a monolith, so what makes sense to one faction might be unthinkable to another. Particularly, Cameron St Jaimas and his Sixth of June faction were serious loose cannons before their elevation to major players, and openly called for taking out every house leader to cause chaos.

Amusingly, the Master's tutelage actually seemed to calm Cameron and his supporters down quite a bit, but we don't know when they came under his sway. I think the idea that the Sixth of June did it just because is very possible.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4872
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #99 on: 13 February 2018, 00:45:42 »
One of the reasons given for blaming the WoB in the novel (IIRC) is that only the WoB would have the means to infiltrate the Task Force, and thus it must be them!

Of course, this conveniently lets out the fact that the Task Force had been infiltrated by 4-5 other assassins. So if the Nekekami are able to do it, then certainly OTHER assassins are able to do it, without it having to be the WoB with their familiarity of ComStar operations.

I'd add another possibility. The Black Dragon Society. They've certainly shown themselves to be willing to do crazy things in order to lead the Combine in the direction that they want. Oh and gee. Look at that. They tried to assassinate the OTHER Davion commander of the Star League forces as well.

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8389
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #100 on: 14 February 2018, 03:41:26 »
On the thought that Sun Tzu might have arranged it, I'm going to have to say no, he didn't. His goal would have been preventing a great war leader from setting up shop in the Capallean March. Now killing Morgan does accomplish that, Sun Tzu would prefer a way that is less likely to cause problems down the line, so I figure that Sun Tzu would have arranged for Morgan to die in combat, right as the fight was won, so as to divert any outrage at his death towards the Clans.

bmdrake71

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #101 on: 16 March 2018, 10:59:39 »
Only one other person on this thread has posted what I believe may be the progenitor of Morgan's death.  Thomas Marik.

Why?  Because his son Joshua died while in the care of Davion doctors and Victor attempted to plant a replacement...  Victor has no kids of his own at this time, His father Hanse is dead so the only logical means at striking back at Victor would be the man he most recognizes as a mentor and confidant. 

Marik SAFE agents would be very competent in assassinations considering their nation's history of civil wars...

 

(SMD)MadCow

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 834
  • 1st Earl of the Bixby Duchy
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #102 on: 16 March 2018, 11:43:11 »
I thought SAFE was universally regarded as a joke organization and wholey incompetent?

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25626
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #103 on: 16 March 2018, 12:17:02 »
SAFE was listed as the least competent and effective intelligence service in the Inner Sphere, by both in and out-of-universe sources.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Nightsong

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 556
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #104 on: 16 March 2018, 17:09:39 »
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a blue moon?

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1891
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #105 on: 16 March 2018, 20:29:20 »
By Thomas Marik, I am assuming the real Thomas and not Thomas Halas. Although it could have been a team-up using resources of WoB ROM and FWL SAFE.

Regardless, based on the story at the start of FM: ComStar, I have no doubt the Word was behind it -- at least its more fanatical elements.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25626
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #106 on: 16 March 2018, 20:39:56 »
Halas would never have gone for something like that, he was too much of a white hat.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1891
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #107 on: 16 March 2018, 20:57:52 »
Agreed. Although, I don't remember off hand how much of SAFE was compromised by the WoB.

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #108 on: 17 March 2018, 02:48:55 »
SAFE was listed as the least competent and effective intelligence service in the Inner Sphere, by both in and out-of-universe sources.
The CCAF was also a punch line until the Capellan Civil War.  Granted it wasn't exactly an even matchup, but ensuring an unfair fight is a hallmark of good strategy, suggesting that not only were the Capellans competent at the tactical level, but their military now had proper leadership.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Dayton3

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 925
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #109 on: 18 March 2018, 13:54:55 »
I go with Katherine Steiner-Davion.    She is the embodiment of everything that is evil in the Battletech universe.

Highball

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 267
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #110 on: 20 March 2018, 12:20:13 »
I have to agree with others .... Kali planned it and had it done.
Marshal Russell Trest Oberlan. "War to the sword ..... the sword to the hilt!"

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5842
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #111 on: 20 March 2018, 12:23:20 »
I have to agree with others .... Kali planned it and had it done.

I dunno.  If Kali had been directing it, there would have been more Morgan-giblets floating around in the microgravity...  Poisoned whiskey is too clean.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25626
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #112 on: 20 March 2018, 12:47:19 »
Also, she'd have bragged about it.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

JadedFalcon

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 868
  • Wins at Battleteching
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #113 on: 21 March 2018, 00:10:02 »
Maybe it was Hanse. If Morgan HD helped Hanse faked his death in 3052 and then became a liability...

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #114 on: 21 March 2018, 09:56:12 »
Maybe it was Hanse. If Morgan HD helped Hanse faked his death in 3052 and then became a liability...
uh... have we seen anything to suggest that Hanse pulled a switcheroo?
I dunno.  If Kali had been directing it, there would have been more Morgan-giblets floating around in the microgravity...  Poisoned whiskey is too clean.
I agree.  Even if she was smart to enough to kill him clean, she couldn't keep her mouth shut.

The biggest sticking point is the timing.  Why kill the task force commander BEFORE he has a chance to do his thing? 
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5842
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #115 on: 21 March 2018, 10:05:46 »
The biggest sticking point is the timing.  Why kill the task force commander BEFORE he has a chance to do his thing?

That's why I still feel the Word of Blake makes the most sense.  They wanted Task Force SERPENT to fail miserably, so that they could ride in to the rescue with their secret fleet and army, earning the gratitude of the entire Inner Sphere and seizing an unassailable leadership role from which to reshape human civilization in Blake's image.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #116 on: 21 March 2018, 12:12:38 »
That's why I still feel the Word of Blake makes the most sense.  They wanted Task Force SERPENT to fail miserably, so that they could ride in to the rescue with their secret fleet and army, earning the gratitude of the entire Inner Sphere and seizing an unassailable leadership role from which to reshape human civilization in Blake's image.

I know WoB had retaken Terra by that point, but were the MD and the Shadow Divisions percolating in the Dev's minds by that point? 

Honestly, I don't think there is an answer to this one. I think that the devs had a couple ideas about which way to take it if they wanted to follow up, but at the end of the day, i think they just did it to give players a story hook.


Speaking of... i remember a passage during TF Serpent's trip.  There was a sensor operator who thinks he saw an odd EM signature when the Invisible Truth made a jump.  I remember that his internal monologue remarks that in the course of the journey, he'd seen the Truth's jump signature from just about every angle. When was this in relation to Morgan's death?
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5842
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #117 on: 21 March 2018, 13:06:30 »
Speaking of... i remember a passage during TF Serpent's trip.  There was a sensor operator who thinks he saw an odd EM signature when the Invisible Truth made a jump.  I remember that his internal monologue remarks that in the course of the journey, he'd seen the Truth's jump signature from just about every angle. When was this in relation to Morgan's death?

The Jihad had been proposed very early, but the first draft was just a throwdown between ComStar and the WoB, without the massive upheaval the Jihad eventually became.

The odd EM signature, I believe, was a reference to a close call as the Ghost Bears were migrating their entire population to the Inner Sphere.  The Bears were jumping in just as SERPENT jumped out.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28957
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #118 on: 21 March 2018, 15:31:16 »
Hmm . . . a ComStar vs Blakist & Blakist vs AMC war . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8389
Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #119 on: 21 March 2018, 17:50:53 »
The odd EM signature, I believe, was a reference to a close call as the Ghost Bears were migrating their entire population to the Inner Sphere.  The Bears were jumping in just as SERPENT jumped out.
SERPENT went down a path that followed Exodus Road, didn't it? While the Ghost Bear migration would have followed a different path.