Author Topic: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype  (Read 168083 times)

Atlas3060

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Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« on: 21 January 2017, 23:05:39 »
*Put in that wonderful John Williams stuff here*


edited by Bedwyr, abusing modly powers: THREADCRAWL!

Posting between members of the Battletech Alliance reached fever pitch during the ROGUE ONE thread.
Valiant heroes from all sides looked at the length and drift coming to a conclusion that it fulfilled its purpose.
MODERATORS, armed with the power of the LOCK THREAD STAR merely looked at this request, shrugged with apathy reminiscent of Scruffy from Futurama and used the devastating power to lock that thread.
Now armed with this fresh thread, the Alliance posts general Star Wars stuff (Rogue One included) while its sibling thread for Rebels looks onward....

Camera cuts to you folks doing whatever you do in this thread.  :P

POSTS!

Generic Star Wars stuff here please, title was thought up by one of our residents. Don't blame me for it, I thought it was witty to use.
« Last Edit: 21 January 2017, 23:09:02 by Bedwyr »
It's not about winning or losing, no it's all about how many chapters have you added to the rule books after your crazy antics.

Bedwyr

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #1 on: 21 January 2017, 23:09:26 »
I'm a bad person.
Alas poor Photobucket. I knew him Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.

Atlas3060

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #2 on: 21 January 2017, 23:14:20 »
I allow this violation of my posting.  ;D
It's not about winning or losing, no it's all about how many chapters have you added to the rule books after your crazy antics.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #3 on: 21 January 2017, 23:17:38 »
Just so long as it's not a prequel.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Jaim Magnus

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #4 on: 21 January 2017, 23:24:30 »
But... but... but...

Rogue One was a prequel!

(ducks)
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idea weenie

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #5 on: 21 January 2017, 23:28:23 »
Generic?

I've figured that the X-Wing was a medium fighter while the TIE is an ultra-light.

X-Wing vs TIE fighter:
Guns: 4 vs 2
Torpedoes/missiles: 2 vs 0
Droid passenger/tech: Yes vs No
FTL: Yes vs No

Both are per their mission needs.  The Imperial forces need lots of fighters to cover lots of places in the galaxy at the same time.  TIEs are not designed to obviously defeat the foe, but are maneuverable enough that hitting one is a pain, and if a TIE is destroyed it means the Empire knows where to look.  As the Empire is acknowledged as being in charge, that means a TIE fighter can often rely upon a local inhabited system for rescue and food/water, while the local ruler contacts the Empire to pick up the Imperial pilot.  The Empire then picks up the pilot and pays the locals for the food/water/shelter/entertainment provided.  If the amounts are excessive, the extra comes out of the pilot's pay.  "Good news, you've been reassigned to Vader's Death Squadron."  "I'm sorry about the bill sir, but they were really friendly."  "Dismissed."

Rebels don't have a lot of systems that they can rely upon for repairs, so they need fighters with FTL capability.  Since they want the pilot to survive to reach another system, they paid the money for a bigger fighter.  The Rebellion can't afford to throw away cheap stuff for their fighters each battle, so they invest in a pricier fighter so the pilot is more likely to survive and get back to a Rebel base.

So you could get conversations like this:
"We destroyed the Imperial TIE squadron before they could detect the base sir."

"Congratulations, now we have to evacuate.  The Imperial squadron was dropped off by a light carrier, and they will be back in six hours to pick up the squadron.  When they don't pick up their squadron, they will commence a search of this and neighboring systems.  We'll be lucky to get away with a quarter of the materials here in that time frame."

Or an Imperial training room for future pilots:
"You have the Empire behind you, but if the local in front of you is unhappy that is still a bad thing.  We have been working to make the systems willing to work with us and provide room and board in case you get shot down, but until then you will respect the local customs.  If that means attending the Governor's poetry reading recital, you will tell the governor that his poetry is wonderful and you will buy a book of it."

Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #6 on: 21 January 2017, 23:28:59 »
Just so long as it's not a prequel.

as the guy who planted the idea, the prequel threads will come out after Trhead VI: the Return of the Forumite

Thread one will be The Phantom Post.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #7 on: 21 January 2017, 23:31:53 »
The X-wing is a medium fighter/bomber by role, but is probably a fairly heavy fighter by construction.  I like to imagine that the BTech equivalent would be Medium Pulse Lasers in the wings, and a pair of Thunderbolt-10s for the torpedoes, while moving at a respectable 7/11.  The TIE Fighter is absolutely a light fighter, pushing 8/12 or 9/14, with a pair of Medium Lasers.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #8 on: 22 January 2017, 00:16:51 »
I'd say by role it's a fast dogfighter, along the same lines as the Dagger; capable of keeping up with interceptors (like the TIE/LN) but with enough space on it for extra ordnance without affecting performance. This is using the BT standard of interceptor/fast dogfighter/dogfighter/heavy fighter.


So I was recently involved in an... argument about the prequels.

First off, if you haven't, go find the Fall of the Jedi fan edit. It doesn't make them great, but it makes them good and even watchable. The man who did it is a master of sculpting from excrement. He.. he managed to make the POD RACE interesting. No joke!

But...

There seems to be a recent trend of apologistas for the prequel trilogy. As more and more fans who 'grew up' with the movies as a part of their childhood come to adulthood, they're trying to insist that the prequels are in some way good. I mean, yeah, everyone's free to an opinion, but nostalgia is not a proper reason to declare something good or bad.

It was while I was arguing that I came up with the best, most soul-crushing argument against such generationals, which I offer open license:

Twilight is a better romance story than the prequels, and the Twilight movies are better than the prequels. They are better told, better edited, and more cohesive pieces of work than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones, and are roughly equivalent to the 'skill' displayed in Revenge of the Sith.

I threw up a little in my mouth to make the argument, but unfortunately it's true. The directors know the tone they're setting, the characters have more believable motivations and use them to make decisions that are right and wrong, the stakes are treated as though they have real consequences, there's no tonally dissonant sidekicks or tangents, and...

*vomits again*

So, uh. I compiled a list of all the good Star Wars The Clone Wars episodes; it's clipped about 55 of the really, REALLY bad ones and kept the ones relevant to the overall plotline or that are genuinely entertaining. Anyone want to see?

Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #9 on: 22 January 2017, 00:28:15 »
my humble suggestions for future threads:

Thread VI: the Return of the Forumite

Thread I: the Phantom Post Edit

Thread II: Attack of the Post

Thread III: Revenge of the Mods

Thread VII: the Posts Awaken
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #10 on: 22 January 2017, 01:17:40 »
my humble suggestions for future threads:

Thread VI: the Return of the Forumite

Thread I: the Phantom Post Edit

Thread II: Attack of the Post

Thread III: Revenge of the Mods

Thread VII: the Posts Awaken

you forgot Thread V: The Mods Strike Back

Colt Ward

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #11 on: 22 January 2017, 01:31:30 »
Outside of arrogance (or NIH syndrome), what reasons would the Empire have for NOT adopting the T-65 into the fleet?

About the only one I can come up with is logistics . . . the TIE Starfighter, Interceptor, Bomber, what Advanced were made and later Defender all used the same parts or series of parts.  The controls were also the same though some like the Advanced and Defender (lets throw in the hyperdrive or shield equipped Interceptors too) had a few more buttons on the control sticks and panels.

And . . . technically they were easier to maintain since the deck crews did not have to worry about repairing damaged Fighters, Interceptors . . . and we can say Bombers turned out middle of the road.  Ship's quartermaster was more likely to send in a requisition for more TIEs and P1-L0Ts than parts repair or rebuild on of the ion engines.

Sort of reminds me of some of the arguments that get heard about Shermans vs T-34s.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #12 on: 22 January 2017, 01:33:37 »
The old legends version is that they turned down the prototypes due to cost, and after the initial refusal the Frei-Tek designers defected to the Rebellion with the design specs and extant prototypes.  Current canon?  Not a clue.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #13 on: 22 January 2017, 01:36:53 »
Yes, I know that . . . but they were not still building Dreadnaughts or Victory Star Destroyers to keep 'costs down' instead of going with a more expensive Imperial or the Imp Deuce.
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Kidd

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #14 on: 22 January 2017, 01:41:54 »
I'd say by role it's a fast dogfighter, along the same lines as the Dagger; capable of keeping up with interceptors (like the TIE/LN) but with enough space on it for extra ordnance without affecting performance. This is using the BT standard of interceptor/fast dogfighter/dogfighter/heavy fighter.
Hmmm.... If you watch ANH again, X-wings seem to lose the manoeuvre game against TIEs pretty definitively, needing very much to work with wingmen ("can't shake him") but they have heavy shields and armour relative to TIEs, tanking engine hits and holding off Vader's X1 for some time and presumably flak hits with their deflector shields.

Quote
Twilight is a better romance story than the prequels, and the Twilight movies are better than the prequels. They are better told, better edited, and more cohesive pieces of work than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones, and are roughly equivalent to the 'skill' displayed in Revenge of the Sith.
Can't agree with that, sorry. I know the prequel Star Wars is bad, but Twilight was execrable. ROTS was decent. I personally rate it on a par with ROTJ.

ANH is not actually that great, it shows its age as basically a WW2 flick; Guns of Navarone/Dam Busters IN SPAAACE! complete with the pile of British supporting cast  ::)

Outside of arrogance (or NIH syndrome), what reasons would the Empire have for NOT adopting the T-65 into the fleet?

(snip)

Sort of reminds me of some of the arguments that get heard about Shermans vs T-34s.
Exactly. Different doctrine.

"TIEs are for short-range air superiority, not long-range inter-system missions - you send a starship for that. A TIE with proton torpedoes is called a TIE Bomber. You don't need the T-65's jack-of-all-trades approach when you have a huge fleet of specialists to draw on.

"Why would we ever need to introduce a vastly different starfighter line anyway? We're winning the war aren't we? The Rebels don't try to engage our fleet units, do they? The Emperor's got a few tricks up those big sleeves of his... big Wunderwaffen, very hush-hush, can't tell you any more old chap..."

Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #15 on: 22 January 2017, 01:48:13 »
you forgot Thread V: The Mods Strike Back

I was thinking that, but didn't want to cast them too much as the bad guys


by the way, everyone knows why episodes IV cam befoer I, II or III, right?

Because in charge of order, Yoda was put
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #16 on: 22 January 2017, 02:03:40 »
Twilight is a better romance story than the prequels, and the Twilight movies are better than the prequels. They are better told, better edited, and more cohesive pieces of work than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones, and are roughly equivalent to the 'skill' displayed in Revenge of the Sith.

I threw up a little in my mouth to make the argument, but unfortunately it's true. The directors know the tone they're setting, the characters have more believable motivations and use them to make decisions that are right and wrong, the stakes are treated as though they have real consequences, there's no tonally dissonant sidekicks or tangents, and...

You can argue whether dog poop or cow poop smells better, but in the end you're still sniffing poop.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #17 on: 22 January 2017, 02:26:25 »
At least in the legends, and old canon the t-65 X wing was commissioned by the empire to be an of grade and replacement for the headhunters, most likely for use as a "elite" fighter.

It was also listed as a space superiority fighter IE it's more of a general purpose dogfighter.
In the rebel lineup A wings are interceptors IE get out there fast and slow down and harass the enemies
Xwings and later e wings were general medium to heavy fighters
Y wings and B wings are bombers designed to hurt capital ships

The ties don't exactly match up, but you have 2-3 sub versions of the general disposable fighter which was a light general purpose fighter.  The interceptor was actually a faster heavier armed version, the bomber filled the bomber/destruction role and things like the advanced (that Vader used) defender, tri wing and others were to resolve situations where the "standard" ties were inadequate, or had sometimes serious deficiency's, of course these new fighters never really made a lot of traction while Palpatine was the emperor because he actually didn't care about and/or liked a certain level of losses.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #18 on: 22 January 2017, 05:24:49 »
as the guy who planted the idea, the prequel threads will come out after Trhead VI: the Return of the Forumite

Thread one will be The Phantom Post.
Followed by Attack of the Clowns and Revenge of the Dissed
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Matti

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #19 on: 22 January 2017, 05:59:33 »
I've figured that the X-Wing was a medium fighter while the TIE is an ultra-light.

X-Wing vs TIE fighter:
Guns: 4 vs 2
Torpedoes/missiles: 2 vs 0
Droid passenger/tech: Yes vs No
FTL: Yes vs No
Where did you got X-Wing has only 2 torpedoes? In X-Wing video game it has 6. Also in The Empire Strikes Back, pair of TIE Fighters fly alongside TIE Bomber, dropping bombs (or something) on the asteroids.
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guardiandashi

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #20 on: 22 January 2017, 06:50:33 »
Where did you got X-Wing has only 2 torpedoes? In X-Wing video game it has 6. Also in The Empire Strikes Back, pair of TIE Fighters fly alongside TIE Bomber, dropping bombs (or something) on the asteroids.
The X wing has quad lasers, and 2 proton torpedo tunes, with a 3 round magazine  for each torpedo tube.
The basic tie fighter has 2 lasers
The tie interceptor has 4 lasers and no missiles
The tie bomber has 2 lasers, 2 torpedo tunes with a 4 round magazine for each tube,it can also carry concussion missiles in staid of the proton torpedoes, and carries some (unspecified)  number of proton bombs/mines.

The Y wing also has a bomb Bay but I don't remember any detail about the number of bombs

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #21 on: 22 January 2017, 07:53:22 »
Victory! hehe Good thing I didn't go all geriatric and want to call it "A New Hip"  [wildandcrazy]

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #22 on: 22 January 2017, 11:41:13 »
you forgot Thread V: The Mods Strike Back

That's exactly what I was think too!
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Bedwyr

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #23 on: 22 January 2017, 11:44:26 »
I was thinking that, but didn't want to cast them too much as the bad guys


by the way, everyone knows why episodes IV cam befoer I, II or III, right?

Because in charge of order, Yoda was put

Oh pish. We know we're evil.  >:D
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #24 on: 22 January 2017, 12:08:54 »
I may be one of the few people who actually enjoyed the Twilight series...much more than eps I-III.  ;)

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #25 on: 22 January 2017, 12:38:03 »
I may be one of the few people who actually enjoyed the Twilight series...much more than eps I-III.  ;)
I did not enjoy Twilight. Even Rifftrax version hurt. But I was not the target audience, and I'm reasonably well able to step outside my opinions and at least try to render judgment without bias. And from that, the main problem with at least the early part is how flat the characters are and how insipid the basic plotline is.

But they're a bas relief etched by masters compared to the prequel characters. Though like I said, I did love what the Fall of the Jedi version does; he actually grabs several deleted scenes which should have been in the movies and puts them in while still trimming wholesale - each move is missing somewhere between 30 and 40 minutes of drivel.

Did you know there's a deleted scene where Anakin and Padme have dinner with Padme's family? It's just so... humanizing to see Anakin try to fit in around a 'normal' family table, with Padme being just a bit scandalized at her mother, and the sisters butting in on what Padme obviously considers a bad match. It reminds me nothing so much of the scene in Episode IV where Luke talks about going to the Academy and Uncle Lars puts him off; despite it being long long ago in a galaxy far far away some things will never change.

And of course, Lucas picked "I hate sand" over this gemstone of a scene. *sigh*


Anyway, here's my list of TCW episodes that I think are worth watching. I prepared it for my mother, who simply could not sit through some of the absolutely boring pew pew lasers of far too many TCW episodes.

The main reason I cut episodes is because nothing that happens are important to the actual plotline of the Clone Wars, or are so banally predictable that you can just skip watching them - or because they're insufferable to watch, like the last half of TCW Theatrical Release.
 
Some episodes are there just because I actually think they're good storytelling, but don't have any real plot bearing - they're filler, but GOOD filler, like the creme in a Twinkie. Unlike the bad filler, which is like the creme in a Twinkie... past the sell-by date.
 
In actual, chronological order versus episode order (because ugh, it tries to jump around in time instead of just telling the damn story):
 
The Clone Wars Theatrical Release (but only up until Ahsoka and Anakin have their little heart to heart after the battle, that's the first episode and it's good. The rest is trash.)
003 Clone Cadets (Introduces Fives)
009 Rookies (Continues Fives' story)
013 Cloak of Darkness (Despite being part 2 of an arc, this episode is a genuine thriller front to back. Action packed, betrayals, fast thinking on both sides...)
014 Lair of Grievous (Gives you more insight into Grievous, makes you realize WHY he's feared, and is also a solid ep).
015-016 Dooku Captured/Gungan General (A two parter with lots of good dialogue. It actually made me... LIKE Jar Jar. I did not think that was possible.)
022-024 Ryloth Arc (establishes plot points about Hera Syndulla's father and is a representative sample of the 'Clones fight ground war against Separatists' episodes which make up so much of what got cut)
025-026 Holocron Heist/Cargo of Doom (Cad Bane and more stuff about the Jedi Order, along with some good action.)
027 Children of the Force (VITAL for introducing Palpatine as a shadowy force behind the Clone Wars and that he's already looking beyond what happens when he wins)
028 Bounty Hunters (Skippable. But it's Seven Samurai with Jedi and Hondo!)
031 Senate Spy (A bit of politics, but actually displays the relationship between Padme and Anakin in a watchable and believable way)
035 Brain Invaders (The three eps before this are more 'ground war boringness' which technically introduces Ahsoka's friend, but this one is a genuinely creepy thriller and you don't need to know more than 'she's another Padawan'.)
036-037 Grievous Intrigue & The Deserter (Earlier in the series there's a whole thing about the Malevolence, and I skipped it because 036 does the 'infiltrate the ship' better with less stupid hijinks. It also gives context to the Deserter, which is just... a GREAT episode for understanding the Clones)
038 Lightsaber Lost (Skippable. But Ahsoka's great. The jedi master helping her is great. It's a fun little noirish episode.)
039-041 Satine arc (Sets up the TCW Mandalore, and 040 has one of the most genuinely chilling previews of what is to come in the entire series.)
042-044 Baby Boba arc (It was these episodes that actually made me like Boba Fett!)
047 Assassin (Skippable. But Ahsoka and Padme play off each other surprisingly well.)
048 ARC Trooper (Continues Fives' story with a payoff from the beginning)
051-052 Hostage Crisis/Hunt for Ziro (051 is genuinely good, and 052 shows us Nal Hutta with a lot of other info - and it's catharsis if you suffered through the Theatrical Release all the way through!)
053-055 Peace arc (Shows how Palpatine is manipulating both sides of the war, as well as the elaborate means he takes to keep the war going)
056-058 Nightsisters arc (Early on the Nightsisters stuff seems dumb. But so much of it wraps up satisfyingly, and it's the beginning of Asajj's arc)
062-064 Citadel (Tarkin & Anakin bromance begins! Also other good stuff!)
065-066 Padawan Lost/Wookie Hunt (Skippable. But more good Ahsoka action and character development)
073 Darkness on Umbara (The first and last episode of this arc are really good. But the middle part just does nothing for the storyline.)
076 Carnage of Krell (as above)
080 a Friend In Need (wrapping some plot threads from earlier in the series together very nicely)
081-084 Deception arc (Skippable, but Snarki-Wan Kenobi at his best, more Cad Bane, and showcases more Palpatine manipulation)
085-088 Massacre (Continuing Dathomir/Asajj arc and finally bringing Maul into it... very important for later on.
089 War on Two Fronts (originally scrapped, now introduced because of Saw. But the middle two eps of the arc are just more "we're fighting a guerilla war, whoosh bang!" without much real advancement.)
092 Tipping Points (Wraps up guerilla war arc)
093-096 Jedi Muppet Baby Arc (Skippable, and a lot of people REALLY don't like it, but it has Hondo at his best, some nice Ahsoka action as well as showing how the Jedi Order gradually gives more responsibility to its padawans, and a bit of poignancy when you realize that all of the kids are dead in less than a year. This is their first - and last - adventure.)
101-104 Maul Arc (104 is one of THE BEST EPISODES of the Clone Wars. It has... just... everything. The other episodes are good, with lots of Snarki-Wan Kenobi, some Hondo, some good evil Jedi stuff, and wraps up Mandalore in a neat bow)
105-108 Ahsoka's arc (wraps up Ahsoka's role in TCW with a neat bow. We knew that Annie didn't have a padawan in Revenge, now we know how).
109-112 Conspiracy arc (wraps up Fives' story, and is a GREAT thriller in and of itself).
118 The Lost One (Gives more info on how exactly the clones were first set into motion, as well as the penultimate battle between Dooku and Anakin/Obi)
119-121 Yoda arc (just... a great ending. Watching these gives you such insight into Yoda's character...)
 
 
And lastly, the "I wouldn't watch them but there are some who might recommend them because TECHNICALLY they're canon..."
059-061 Mortis Arc (Skippable IMHO. Superpowerful Force gods (Light daughter, Dark son, Balance father) drag the core Jedi (Obi, Anakin, Ahsoka) to their homeworld and daddy asks Annie to take his place. It has some really good moments and visuals. But overall it adds nothing to the storyline and may as well have "Just been a dream" as well as introducing some VERY dumb ideas about the Force and what that stupid prophecy actually MEANT.)
 
Out of 125 episodes (counting the so-called 'theatrical release', I ended up with 70; the remaining 55 are just... mediocre to agonizing. Like, super painful.

Kidd

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #26 on: 22 January 2017, 13:44:59 »
Its almost as if there isn't a need for a separate Rebels thread really...

Stormlion1

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #27 on: 22 January 2017, 14:51:01 »
Is it a bad thing I just figured out how to get Star Wars: Rebellion to run on Windows 7?
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Colt Ward

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #28 on: 22 January 2017, 17:08:12 »
Wait, you mean Rebellion as in the universe conquering game that had all the ships fight in a square cube of space?   Because I wish I could get it to work . . . though I think I need to find the disk too.
Colt Ward
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #29 on: 22 January 2017, 20:21:57 »
Oh do tell what you did! I emjoyed playing Rebellion and building the Death Star. Though having an army of wookies as the rebels was always a blast :)

 

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