Is Battletech an Inferrior or Superior economic product in your opinion?

[CrossfirePilot]

If anyone remembers Micro Economics.  An inferior product you would not purchase if you had more money. A superior product gets purchased whenever possible. From what I remember...

So if you had more time and money, would you play more or less? Meaning you would probably find something else to fill the time (new boat, etc).

[Revanche]

By my purchasing history, superior. I've moved to avoid buying directly from CGL as much as possible, in order to ensure I get my hardcopy purchase, but I still very much appreciate almost everything they put out.

[Mech42ace]

Superior for me. BT is rare where I live so if I get the chance to purchase it over something else, I will purchase BT, so if I had the access to funds, I'd gladly spend those funds on it still. Though with more money comes less time more often or not. So having the time would be a different topic entirely.

[Sellsword]

Inferior. CGL hasn't produced anything that I've been interested in since WoR. I don't care for the historicals. I don't need anymore rehashed TRO (or any TRO for that matter) or "new" abbreviated rule books.  While I find the PDF products offer good value for the money, I don't like the lack of a consistent release schedule or type of PDF product.  CGL makes it too hard for the consumer.  I'm tired of constantly searching the forums to see if something has been cancelled, released, changed, or pushed back.

I only buy IWM miniatures on a consistent bases.  Unlike CGL, their product seems to get better every year.

[Domi1981]

"Is Battletech an Inferrior or Superior economic product in your opinion? "

Its NOT a product. It´s a brand. A splintered brand that is poorly managed and therefore inferior. Sadly.

I would ditch it and rebuild it under another name. The whole license debacle is a mess that doesn´t allow proper management.

[Phobos101]

That's a broad question, and Domi is right - it's a brand, and has a whole bunch of products. For me, mapsheets are superior. I have gone out of my way to acquire all the German Kartensets for this reason. The new boxed sets awill also be superior, because they contain great minis (and hopefully more of the aforementioned maps). A superior product needs aesthetics, and crunch - it should be applicable on the tabletop.
Rulebooks are compulsory. Only exception is Alpha Strike, but that could change one day.
Sourcebooks are a different story. It really depends whether they fit the eras I want to play, and have some good crunch. A TRO with some updated art, a few scenarios, and RATs. I want my sourcebooks to tell me how to play in the universe without having to dig through pages of dry fluff.
On the same token, I buy Touring the Stars and the Legends fiction. If they were more than a few dollars each? probably not so much.
My point is, there are a lot of answers to this question, and the recent and upcoming releases (succession wars books, new boxed sets, BMM) point to a more consolidated, accessible approach to the brand, which will hopefully be reflected by more products falling into the superior category.

[Domi1981]

Just today an attractive lawyer asked me what she could gift her nephew as a birthday present and I was "Give him a Battletech starter bo...oh...er...nevermind" That actually angered me more than it should have. But I explained the whole thing to her and she was very excited and I will maybe give some of my old minis and a rulebook away.

[Alex Keller]

There was a time not too long ago (2009-2012) where I had very little money, but was buying everything CGL could produce for Battletech. The books were the best quality products I had seen for Battletech and comparable to anything GW, FFG, or Paizo was putting out. And it felt like a golden age. New books released every few months. Masters and Minions, the War of Reaving, Alpha Strike, and Tactical Operations were just a few of the books that blew me away.  I thought it would go on forever.

Then something happened. It was as if someone let the air out of the balloon. Books retained their high print quality, but releases were growing ever further apart. The story came to an abrupt halt. I now have much more resources than my younger self, but there's fewer products and the books we do get are no longer advancing the game.  I've held off on the last few books. I bought Campaign Operations just to complete my set, but I don't have anything to be excited about. Ive seen talented writers treated unfairly and gross mismanagement of company finances. There's too much uncertainty about not only the future of the narrative, but about the capability if CGL to continue the game that we all love.

So for me it's an inferior product right now. I hope that changes.

[Kentares]

...and she was very excited and I will maybe give some of my old minis and a rulebook away.

Are you going to give the minis and a rulebook to her or to her nephew?  ;D

You can have a nice excuse to teach her... the game...

(I knew it... lawyers always get excited with law stuff... now... need to buy a code of laws to try that...)

[Vonshroom]

Frankly, it is somewhere in-between. While I love battletech, and spend a decent amount of time on here, on sarna, mech games, designing units, and writing, etc. I actually spend only a small fraction of my money on Battletech and associated products. I do however invest time.

My Battletech experience comes and goes, I'll take year long+ breaks, but I always come back. To me its a nice fantasy and a great escape. One of my favorite fictional universes, but I really don't see myself spending more on it if I was any richer or poorer.

I picked Inferior because, frankly it is. My experience with it reflects this. While I enjoy it, I am quick to drop it if I am doing something else with my time.

[Vition2]

I'm with Vonshroom - it lies somewhere between the superior and inferior definitions stated at the beginning of this thread.  The primary reason for me is that I don't purchase miniatures, and therefore the books and occasional computer games are the only thing I spend money on.  In both cases I only buy each product once, which means once its bought I won't spend more money.

As once everything is purchased I no longer will spend money on duplicate products, I had to rate it as inferior.

[Iron Mongoose]

As people have pointed out, there's no single product that is "Battletech" so the question can't really be answered in a techical way.

One of the nice things about it, as a game and as a universe, is that once the cost of entry is paid, you can continue on for little or nothing.  You don't have to keep buying minis or new fiction or rule books for aspects of the game you don't play.  Since it's a sunk cost, it's not really superior or inferior in an economic way, at least to me.  But, since I play even though it's free, I guess it's "superior."

Now, can we look at any specific product and say?  Yes, absolutly.  But, we're also not a representitive group, since most of us have invested a lot of time and money into the game and universe, and so a new product holds more value for us than it might for a generic consumer. 

[nckestrel]

For BattleTech, I'd say the economic definitions of inferior/superior would be better expressed as, do you only purchase BattleTech when you don't have the money for Warhammer 40K? 
I'm not sure the question has that much meaning for current BattleTech purchasers anyway, I expect most are now fans that would purchase BT regardless of changes in income (or at least, wouldn't replace it with something else if they had less income) and aren't looking to replace it if they make more income.  So it's neither.  (Personally why I don't like the "well, BT is cheaper to get in to than WH40K!" appeal. it's positioning BattleTech as an inferior product in the economic sense.)
The problem with BT is not enough people purchasing it whether they have money or not, there's just not that many purchasers period.  It's not that the market is doing well so people are purchasing more superior products instead, or that the market isn't doing well so people are looking for cheaper alternatives to BT. 

[Daryk]

I don't know about that comparison.  I only ever bought a handful of 40K items (most of them used) about 20 years ago, and have steadily spent on BattleTech over the years.

[nckestrel]

I don't know about that comparison.  I only ever bought a handful of 40K items (most of them used) about 20 years ago, and have steadily spent on BattleTech over the years.

And neither your spending on 40K or BT would be affected by how much income you had?  (I don't think it would for you or most fans, so I don't think it's an inferior/superior relationship).

[Kovax]

If you're interested in the game, it starts as a "superior" product, but once you've got the basics, further spending becomes "inferior": you buy more when you have funds to burn, and even then, you're only going to purchase so much in any time period.

As pointed out, the lack of starter box sets hits the "superior product" end hardest, leaving only the expansion information to bring in money if/when the existing player base feels like adding another book or two.  The focus appears to be all wrong from a money-making point of view, and for growing the player base.  No starter sets means no new players to buy the more advanced products.  It would seem to me that getting the starters out there would be the top priority.

[Daryk]

And neither your spending on 40K or BT would be affected by how much income you had?  (I don't think it would for you or most fans, so I don't think it's an inferior/superior relationship).

Given my experience with both games, I'd say more income would mean more for BT, and not for 40K.  Others have had different experiences, I'm sure.

[Sellsword]

I'll be the first to admit that I know little about economics, but if Battletech were a superior economic product would it still be having the money problems that it has now? 

With few exceptions, almost all individual books produced by CGL has been high quality.  But in an economic, profitability, business sense that doesn't seem to be good enough.  Therefore in my mind it is an inferior economic product.

For all the complaining about the rumor style of the Jihad books, each book at least left me with a desire to find out more.  It made me want to buy the next book in the series just to try and figure out what was going on. These individual releases by CGL such as the 1st Succession Wars are one and done purchases. There's nothing to support or increase purchases based upon that one book.

This is just my experience but I have had more time and money to spend these last couple of years and my money hasn't gone to CGL.  I've started x-wing, mercs 2.0, Dropfleet Commander, and even the One Ring RPG.

[Daryk]

Thinking about it in that light (and looking at the pile of books next to my keyboard), BattleTech has been the majority of my purchases for as long as I can remember.

[guardiandashi]

I would tend to say in the cost to value aspect ratio it tends to be a superior product, however on a profit ratio for the company it's more likely an inferior product.

[Sellsword]

I would tend to say in the cost to value aspect ratio it tends to be a superior product, however on a profit ratio for the company it's more likely an inferior product.

I can agree with this

[Domi1981]

Are you going to give the minis and a rulebook to her or to her nephew?  ;D

You can have a nice excuse to teach her... the game...

(I knew it... lawyers always get excited with law stuff... now... need to buy a code of laws to try that...)

I will give it to her so she can give it to her nephew (I walked right into that, right?)  O:-)

Back to topic: the problem with Battletech is, it has a lot of potential. The problem with potential is something people like to have, because you never have to cash in on that. It could be a great game, and if you are into that complex rulesets and make use of the campaign rules it truly is a universe you can dive into, but for most people its rather daunting. In my experience its best not to talk but to play and let people experience the game.

[Vonshroom]

Battletech is honestly a weird thing / product / universe / hobby for me. For the amount of time I spend doing it, I have spent an incredibly small amount of money. The lions share of money I have spent on "Battletech" would be on the novels. And that is really how I got into the whole universe to begin with. Here is a quick spending history of my time in Battletech. As a younger player (20) I haven't been with the game as long, but have been pretty "active" since 2012 for sure.

2003-2004: My cousin left a copy of MW2 at my Grandma's house, I played it, loved it, and traded my cousin out of the game for some legos or something. Cost: a few legos.

2006: Acquired Mechcommander. Still a favorite game of mine. $10 at a second hand store.

2009-2012: I see something that looks like the Dire Wolf out of my old Mechwarrior game on the cover of a book in a local thrift shop in the 1$ section. See the cover, Battletech, Storms of Fate. I bought it for $1. That was my first novel and it sunk me into the Universe and really got me to where I am. This was around 09.

From here I decided I loved the books and set out getting my hands on all the novels. I have actually read them all, and currently own all but a few. My total cost here would probably be around $300 in purchases.

2012: I found a used 4th edition boxed set at a local garage sale. Bought it for $5. This is where I really got into the game and realized it included more than just novels. I registered for this forum in 2012, and continued buying books including some used sourcebooks, and some handbooks (cue the Steiner fandom, although it started with the novels).

2012- Now: I realized that with what I had and printing off record sheets online, I have all I need to play Battletech. Most of my games today are on those initial mapsheets, although I have added more since, and I still use the cardboard standees I got with my used box set.

All in all I have spent somewhere in the ballpark of <$500 and a few legos, on Battletech and related products, but I have spent countless hours that would total into days and probably months, on the forums, researching, playing the game, and designing units & writing.

For me Battletech is really weird. There is no other interest of mine that I spend the amount of time while spending basically nothing. All of my other hobbies that take up as much time as battletech get thousands a year spent on them.

[snewsom2997]

I vote inferior.

Rules are hard if not impossible to come by in dead tree format.
Starter Box is hard if not impossible to find, or are collector expensive.
Maps are impossible to find, or are collector expensive.

Yes we may be getting a new box and a new rules book, but we may be getting ilClan for going on half a decade too. AS long as we don't have easily accessible box sets and rules, you cannot bring much new blood into the game. Intrest in MWO or HarbrainedSchemes game will only get people so far, if there is no complimentary product on the tabletop side, they will get tired of waiting and move on.

I like the original game so Alpha strike is meh. I end up playing with Megamek most times

Touring the Stars, meh, I like Sourcebooks, I like listings of Forces on a planet at a time, I can generally assume any and all terrain will be on a given planet. Yes some planets like Outreach, New Dallas, Astrokrazy, sure a little pdf would be nice expanding those planets history. However they go pick a bunch of fringe worlds and it is like an aprils fools gag.

I have at least 4 versions of the original mechs in TROs, the Original TRO 3025, the updated 3025 without the unseen and with the neutered SL mechs, 3039 and 3039 revised. I have 2750, and both versions of 3050 and 3055. We simply do not need another book with the same mechs in them. Just make your existing books available.  I litterally have 5 books with the exact same information about a Commando in them.

I like minis, but I lack the time to paint them and keep up with the hobby portion. I would be willing to pay a premium for painted minis, and I can from ebay, but would be willing from IWM if it were an option.

I am waiting for ilclan, then I will see if I am still interested. Hopefully if comes out before my patience wears out. However based on the discussion on the General forums a week or so ago with the original writers of IlClan, the 95% complete, the lack of payment, and then the moderators telling them to stop any and all discussion about anything, my hopes are dwindling.

[Demon55]

I buy battletech products regardless of my income when I want to.

[elf25s]

ok rule wise avarage
product wise especially starter box sets ? tough to call i had had a bt game since 84 starting with battledroids to latest catalyst intro box
from battledroids i would say avarage second and third editions above to good game pro edition good not great  first intro box by catalyst great latest one awesome
the minis depending on a year and manufacturer they tend to be from ok to superior. and some unofficial jobs i had come across are just down right either stunning or just plain wth were you thinking in quality.
novels never read one to completion so i am not going to say anything
by far best book put out there i love and still want more than one copy is the 25 years of battleterch
as for the TRO i am a bit biased since a lot of them not only contain stats and art along with some short stories especially the fasa editions my aesthetic sense is corrupted so my personal opinion is they are some of th best supplemental stuff to the bg published.
as for best bang for your buck? majority of the bt product qualifies as such.

[massey]

At this point in my life, I honestly expect to play less than half a dozen games of Battletech against a living, breathing opponent, from here on out.  But I've moved from the "gaming every weekend" phase to "drop by the game store once a year, look at the shelves, leave without buying anything" stage of life.  My friends who I used to play with all have wives and kids, my girlfriend wants a ring, and earlier this year some people were trying to get me to run for an open seat on the state legislature (don't worry, I didn't run).  I'm a real life grown-up now, except for posting on internet forums like this.

So, given that, it's an inferior product.  But really, any game at all is inferior at this point.  I don't even own a video game console.

But de-age me by 20 years, and I'd say it's a superior product.  It's pretty cheap to get into (if you can find a boxed set), and if you have a few buddies who like to play, you can get hundreds of hours of entertainment out of it.  From the time I was about 13 until 30, I played it a lot.  But for me, that ended about a decade ago.  Give me more time and money, and I'm probably going to get dragged to craft shows, or have to host dinner parties, or we're going to fix up the (future) baby's room.

The moral of this story is that getting old sucks.

[Daryk]

Getting old doesn't so much suck, as is just different.  Seriously, you have friends who think highly enough of you to pay you to sit and argue all day in the state legislature.  And a serious enough girlfriend that you're talking about the possibility of children.  So not just different, but awesomely different.  Can you honestly say you'd be where you are now 20 years ago?  I certainly couldn't have.

And back on topic, I'm still in the "superior" camp.  I don't buy everything Catalyst puts out, but they still make things I buy, even after all these years.

[massey]

Getting old doesn't so much suck, as is just different.  Seriously, you have friends who think highly enough of you to pay you to sit and argue all day in the state legislature.  And a serious enough girlfriend that you're talking about the possibility of children.  So not just different, but awesomely different.  Can you honestly say you'd be where you are now 20 years ago?  I certainly couldn't have.

And back on topic, I'm still in the "superior" camp.  I don't buy everything Catalyst puts out, but they still make things I buy, even after all these years.

I'm not really complaining, my life is pretty good.  I wouldn't trade what I've got now for what I had back then.  But sometimes I sure do miss the days of no responsibilities and lots of gaming time. :)

[Vonshroom]

The moral of this story is that getting old sucks.

Beats the alternative.  ;)

-Shroom