Author Topic: Training Mechs in the Clans  (Read 3462 times)

RunandFindOut

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Training Mechs in the Clans
« on: 10 September 2017, 18:36:35 »
I focus far more on the Inner Sphere and the Succession Wars than the Clans or the Invasion period of history.  I've got and read many of the novels including those dealing with the Clan Invasion and Twilight of the Clans.  But I'm running into an issue because what we see in the novels tends to be atypical and important stuff.

I've got a pretty good overview of how the Clan sibko and training system work.  Now what I'm looking for is what sort of mechs would Clans assign to the pool used for training for ordinary sibkos of the sort that don't have novel protagonists in them or show up in important events.
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Archangel

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #1 on: 10 September 2017, 18:54:19 »
Varies depending upon Clan resources.  For example, the resource-poor Blood Spirits can't afford to assign any Omnis to training units while the rich Ghost Bears could but would also later start manufacturing a standard (aka non-Omni) training 'Mech specifically for sibkos.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #2 on: 10 September 2017, 19:22:45 »
Kit Fox seems to be a standard training mech for the Wolves and Falcons.. we see it in the blood of Kerensky series for both the wolves and the Dragoons, and in the first of the Jade Phoenix books we see the Kit Fox used for a lot of the piloting training.

though in both those cases the timeframe was fairly early.. years pre-invasion for the falcons, and early in the invasion for the wolves.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #3 on: 10 September 2017, 20:12:12 »
Bear Cub was debuted as the Ghost Bear training mech post 3075. Most sibko's seem to have the standard Original 16 for the Trial lying around for the trainers to use against them.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #4 on: 10 September 2017, 20:23:20 »
my guess is that they probably get 'used" mechs.. ones that had been on the frontlines, but which no longer were considered in good enough shape to serve on the frontlines and were being retired. ones that had been rebuilt several times, or had been salvaged in the first place and thus had lots of little problems too small to be worth the overhual to fix, etc..
« Last Edit: 10 September 2017, 20:27:24 by glitterboy2098 »

Iron Mongoose

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #5 on: 11 September 2017, 13:41:08 »
Remember, though, the Clans are all about youth and the next generation, and have lavish budgets for trials and training.  On Huntress, the only omnis were the ones used by sibkos and trainers, rather than by the experianced, bloodnamed veterans (who were past their prime).  So there's every indication that at least prestege trueborn sibkos in larger Clans have all the access to omnis they need or want.  Given the ease of repair omnis offer, this may not be quite as silly as it seems, especally since in the sibko one imagines few machines will be totally distroyed (both to prevent waste, and just because sibkids won't have the skills to quickly and efficantly core their opponents).

Now, the Spirits, or Cobras, or someone like that, one might think maybe not omnis.  But, since the Spirits are such rigorous trainers who take such extreem pride in turning out the best, it's possible to imagine that the one or two sibkin per sibko to make it might be offered omnis to train in (makes a hell of a disapointment not to test out extreemly well and end up in a Star League relic), and the Cobras too train few enough warriors that the best might well have Kit Foxes or better to work on.

Now, in the post invasion, when the Clans are tenuiously exposed to economics, that seems to be changing.  Part of that seems to be a change in training methods, and a larger number of warriors being trained (to make up for larger losses), meaning more mechs and a longer training period with training units (a new inovation for the Clans) and probably many fewer omnis.
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Jellico

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #6 on: 11 September 2017, 15:14:41 »
Kit Fox seems to be a standard training mech for the Wolves and Falcons.. we see it in the blood of Kerensky series for both the wolves and the Dragoons, and in the first of the Jade Phoenix books we see the Kit Fox used for a lot of the piloting training.

though in both those cases the timeframe was fairly early.. years pre-invasion for the falcons, and early in the invasion for the wolves.

Remember that there were literally 16 Clan Mechs when they were written so they need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Heck. Mechs fluffed as fairly faction specific like the Grizzly were still being spread far and wide as late as the Field Manuals because of a lack of Clan Mechs.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #7 on: 11 September 2017, 15:30:32 »
i can buy the Kit Fox making a good training mech though. it has mobility closer to the mediums and heavies which the bulk of clan forces comprise, and its standard configs cover a fairly diverse range of roles. heck, the Primary has a ballistic, a missile, and two types of energy weapons, requiring a certain degree of thought to use effectively given the diverse ranges and heat issues. which is way better suited to training than the Chameleon the Inner Sphere likes to use.

plus a Kit Fox is not exactly going to be high demand on the frontlines, for many of the reasons it actually makes a good trainer.. it is slow for its size (by clan standards), lacks the armor to hang with the bigger mech's it paces, and its config weapons loadouts, while diverse, don't really excel at any of the roles they perform.

it is a slow light generalist.. which is great for training because you can use it to train people in all sorts of roles without having to use a larger more valuable machine.. but tends to suffer on the frontlines because it is always getting into situations where its opponents are much better at doing the job than it is.

Archangel

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #8 on: 11 September 2017, 15:55:57 »
It should be noted that within most, if not all, Clans there were primary and secondary facilities with the primary facilities (with the most highly regarded sibkos) getting the best equipment available to the sibkos and the secondary facilities (with the more poorly regarded sibkos and freeborn sibkos) having to make do with the leftovers.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #9 on: 11 September 2017, 17:32:45 »
I would also point out that giving a training facility two binaries of mechs does not mean that each one is assigned to a single cadet . . .

 . . . rather that during a day Sibko A (batch of 12 year old Kerenskies) maybe using the star of light mechs from 0900-1200 for Omnimech familiarization where each cadet runs the mech through the obstacle course of 30 or 45 minute durations.  Meanwhile Sibko C3 (large sibko of mixed Bloodlines- Wards, Kerenskies, Nygren, Fetladral & Winson) are using the star of medium and heavies to tackle the gunnery exercise from 0900-1400.  The oldest sibkos of cadets Zulu, Whiskey and Tango are scheduled to undergo a sort of rehearsal for the Trial of Position with the two binaries so that each cadet might pick their own machine.  They will be facing a group of freeborns from the secondary training facility down the road who are using Wyvern IIC, Great Dragons, Clint IIC, and old SL Guillotines & Stalkers that form the core of what the freeborns equipment.

Honestly, now with all that we have for what the Clans are equipped with . . .

I think the Wyvern IIC would be a pretty good starting training mech with sibkos entering the last two or three years of their training programs getting access to Omnis.
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RunandFindOut

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #10 on: 11 September 2017, 17:45:47 »
Yeah my thoughts were in line with yours.  There would be a training facility and it would have a common pool of mechs for use in training.  My thought was that omnis would be less common in a training role due to their importance for the first tier units.  So while there would be omnis you'd probably also see lots of IIC models or SL refits to save resources with the omnis being largely devoted to omnimech familiarization and training in joint operation with elementals.  With a lot of the basic piloting and gunnery training on the less valuable non-omnis.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #11 on: 11 September 2017, 17:50:57 »
Or we could work backward . . . what were the Star League training mechs?  I know the Chameleon 7V and Crockett 5003-0 . . . which likely means they were what the Clans started off training with preparing for Op Klondike and afterwards.  It is also likely they would pattern off when they made up their next training regimen.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

RunandFindOut

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #12 on: 11 September 2017, 18:58:22 »
Yeah that's probably about right, a fast medium that can train on how to pilot mediums and lights, and an assault to get them familiar with the big boys.  So they probably have a light/assault or medium/assault mix in training mechs with ones specifically chosen for having generalist weapon loads.  With some omnis specifically for training in familiarization with omnis getting used to different weapon loads and how to work paired up with elementals.  Depending on how much prestige a sibko has and what's expected of it different levels of omnimech access from the overall pool would be available.  The larger better equipped clans might forgo the standard battlemech entirely and do training entirely with omnimechs as it would allow them to get in more diverse training with fewer total mechs devoted to training.

But in general I could see a fast medium on the lower end of medium weight and a slow assault.  Probably less sought after ones as the Touman would get most of those and leave training commands with the models that are perfectly good but not as heavily trialed for.
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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #13 on: 16 September 2017, 16:53:52 »
In the Jade Falcon Trilogy, they did have a extremely wornout Stinger (i think it was) Battlemech stuck on a post of somekind for cadets to attempt to use fight freeborn infantry.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #14 on: 16 September 2017, 17:30:13 »
actually i think it was a Wasp. but that was little more than a shell.

Colt Ward

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #15 on: 16 September 2017, 17:50:27 »
Which makes sense . . . if you are training your infantry- true or free- on how to assault a mech, you are also training your mechwarrior cadets how to defend themselves against infantry.  The situation where the infantry would have a chance is where the mech's biggest advantage is lost, mobility.  So why always try to repair a mech's knees & ankles when you are simulating a immobile mech . . . use the arms and the cockpit, even the power could be remoted.  Load the rubber bullets in the machine gun and a stepped down laser to give those infantry a sunburn.

The only thing they are needing to keep up would be the weapons, targeting and arm actuators.  Plus if the MW cadet tries to swat at the infantry its likely to hurt less than it did for Jake.
Colt Ward
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"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Training Mechs in the Clans
« Reply #16 on: 16 September 2017, 20:07:58 »

Real-world military trainer aircraft usually have a tandem cockpit and very forgiving flight controls.  Some are purpose-built, but others are just variants on combat aircraft.

I'd port those characteristics over to a modern Clan trainer mech by incorporating a Dual Cockpit (for trainer and trainee) and AES (at least in the legs to reduce falls) in the design.

If not purpose-built, I'd probably just modify older, average omnis for trueborn training.  Reduce the pod tonnage on a Nova or even an old Lupus, squeeze in a Dual Cockpit, rerun the leg myomers with AES, and you're good to go.
« Last Edit: 16 September 2017, 20:17:24 by Natasha Kerensky »
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