Author Topic: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech  (Read 406 times)

Black_Knyght

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Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« on: 12 September 2017, 17:36:35 »
After reading about the issues MarauderD was having with his forward-spotter in this post: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58688.0 , I thought I'd post an old design we've used as part of our Fire-support Lances.

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The Charger CGR-FS1 is an assault battlemech intentionally designed to not act or function as an assault battlemech. Designed to operate as a forward spotter for fire-support lances, the CGR-FS1 model was developed to fill a role usually assigned to smaller, less armored mechs who have to stay more mobile or get destroyed quickly. The larger Charger was chosen both for it's unique mobility for an assault mech and for it's capacity to carry better armor and defensive systems compared to the usual forward spotter mechs.

Though lightly armed for an assault mech, the Charger CGR-FS1 is not intended to stand and fight an enemy but rather remain mobile and operational long enough for it's fire-support lance mates to bombard a target. For limited self-protection and defense for it's lance-mates the CGR-FS1 is armed with a snub-nosed PPC and dual extended-range medium lasers, as well as 13 tons of ferro-fibrous armor and a Guardian ECM system. To operate as a forward-spotter for fire-support units the CGR-FS1 carries a specialized targeting-laser in a hand-held mount for a wider range of targeting.


Charger CGR-FS1


Code: [Select]
Charger CGR-FS1
IS Assault Battlemech
80 tons 
BV: 1,713
Cost: 17,669,520 C-bills

Movement: 5/8/5
Engine: 400 Light
Heat Sinks: 11 [22]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 122 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 232/247 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               25       36
Center Torso (rear)                 11
Right Torso                17       26
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 17       26
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  13       24
Left Arm                   13       24
Right Leg                  17       31
Left Leg                   17       31

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
TAG                             RA     0
Snub-Nose PPC                   LA    10
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5
ER Medium Laser                 LT     5

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Guardian ECM Suite              RT

« Last Edit: 12 September 2017, 17:38:19 by Black_Knyght »

Black_Knyght

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #1 on: 12 September 2017, 17:39:48 »
A later version, designated the CGR-FSC, replaced the hand mounted TAG with a head mount C3 slave.

packhntr

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #2 on: 13 September 2017, 12:43:50 »
I'd be half tempted to drop in an XL engine, an additional TAG, C3S, and at least one LAMS.
If at first you don't succeed, make it worth the repairman's time!

packhntr

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #3 on: 13 September 2017, 13:50:57 »
Just built the concept on a Battletech Mech editor on my phone....

80T, 5/8/5, 400xl, 16 double heat sinks, Angel ECM, ERPPC, 2x ERML, 2x LAMS, 2x TAG, endo stl internals, 15.5t std armor, std cockpit, std gyro.  23,271,720 C-Bills.  10 crits left too.

My $0.02
If at first you don't succeed, make it worth the repairman's time!

Sabelkatten

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #4 on: 13 September 2017, 14:52:53 »
I can find two "real scout" Chargers I've posted before, the sensible option and the somewhat less sensible option.

Incidentally, for a high-mobility mech like that a TC is a very good thing to have. I'd drop the 11th DHS and one ERML to get one.

Black_Knyght

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #5 on: 13 September 2017, 17:49:14 »
It was never intended as the most optimized design, just an effective one.

In game-play it's worked extremely well in it's intended role as part of a Fire-Support team, and as a bodyguard against light or medium "backstabber" mechs. Different variations have been tried, including an ER-PPC or LRMs, but they always led to a tendency to try to "mix it up" with enemy mechs that always ended badly and defeated the purpose of the mech.

packhntr

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #6 on: 14 September 2017, 08:42:16 »
BK....I can definitely see that happening.... "Hey, I have lots of armor and a big gun....time to fight"..... 
If at first you don't succeed, make it worth the repairman's time!

Black_Knyght

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #7 on: 15 September 2017, 22:58:32 »
Exactly!

Better weaponry always tends to lead a player to drift away from acting as a forward spotter and more towards a combat oriented role, which of course defeats the point of the design and it's intended mission completely.

In general, the idea is for a spotter equipped with TAG to be able to act as a spotter while still being tough enough to take a few hits and survive long enough for it's lancemates to do their job. An additional bonus is it can act as a bodyguard unit as well to chase off opportunistic lights and mediums hoping to backstab it's lancemates.

In gameplay so far it works best in it's intended role with this weapons mix, armor, and mobility. And as an assault mech it adds a nice set of punches or kicks to the mix too  ;)

Iceweb

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #8 on: 16 September 2017, 02:09:51 »
I had to use an XL engine, XL gyro, with endo-composite, and light ferro fibrous, but I was able to get 5/8/8 by using improved jump jets. 
Jumping a charger 8 should be a shock to just about anyone. 
Weapon loadout is pathetic as desired. 
A main gun of a snub PPC is supported only by a backup ER medium, and a small X-Pulse to deal with infantry. 
For electronics it has an angel ECM, C3 slave, and a pair of TAGs for guiding in munitions.
The armor is weaker with light ferro but still retains the desired 13.5 tonnes of protection. 
All this can be yours for only 27.5 Million C-Bills and change. 

Of course a variant exists where the two secondary guns are stripped out and replaced with a targeting computer.   

Black_Knyght

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #9 on: 16 September 2017, 19:11:14 »
Ouch!

That's almost half again the cost of mine!

Sometimes I think optimizing can takes things a step to far (LOL)...  ;) :P
« Last Edit: 16 September 2017, 19:14:43 by Black_Knyght »

Iceweb

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #10 on: 17 September 2017, 01:41:43 »
Sometimes I think optimizing can takes things a step to far (LOL)...  ;) :P
 

I think a lot of the issue comes from both the cost of the XL engine, and trying to keep the flavor of 13.5 tonnes of advanced armor. 

The engine alone is a base of 8.5 Mil and that is before the * 1.8 for the unit's weight. 
I basically have your mech alone in the cost of the engine. 

The jump jets alone (which are the point of this beast) are 2.5 Mil base so again they are almost doubled by the 1.8 

Making the armor standard and just using plain endo uses the same crits and gains two more tonnes. 
Just using endo almost always beats the ferros just based on weight savings. 

Switching to base endo and base armor drops the armor by 12 pips and the cost goes down over the more expensive composite. 
From there you can either drop the costly XL gyro or add two tonnes of armor which puts it one pip over max. 
Or something else with the two tonnes like upgrading the small X-pulse to a medium and adding a double heat sink. 



mbear

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #11 on: 29 September 2017, 10:59:21 »
Exactly!

Better weaponry always tends to lead a player to drift away from acting as a forward spotter and more towards a combat oriented role, which of course defeats the point of the design and it's intended mission completely.

In general, the idea is for a spotter equipped with TAG to be able to act as a spotter while still being tough enough to take a few hits and survive long enough for it's lancemates to do their job. An additional bonus is it can act as a bodyguard unit as well to chase off opportunistic lights and mediums hoping to backstab it's lancemates.

In gameplay so far it works best in it's intended role with this weapons mix, armor, and mobility. And as an assault mech it adds a nice set of punches or kicks to the mix too  ;)

If the heat curve allows it, maybe installing TSM would be an option. Not for the double damage on physical attacks, but for the improved speed.

Of course the fact that it improves physical attacks makes it an even better bodyguard. :)

Black_Knyght

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #12 on: 30 September 2017, 02:18:31 »
Now THAT is an interesting idea, though I don't think the existing weapon loadout generates enough heat to make TSM worthwhile.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #13 on: 30 September 2017, 07:11:25 »
TSM pretty much requires a laser battery to be used effectively, which makes the temptation to do "full contact recon" extremely strong.

If the intent is for your scout to stay alive a TC'd snubby really is the ideal system.

Black_Knyght

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #14 on: 30 September 2017, 11:01:14 »
Worked up a TC'd version, and it actually came out less expensive and with a higher BV. Cost the design a DHS and a ton of armor, but it might be a worthwhile trade-off. The TC will certainly improve TAG operations, and in it's bodyguard role.


Charger CGR-FS2

Code: [Select]
Charger CGR-FS2
IS TW non-box set
80 tons 
BV: 1,785
Cost: 17,658,720 C-bills

Movement: 5/8/5
Engine: 400 Light
Heat Sinks: 10 [20]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 122 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 215/247 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               25       31
Center Torso (rear)                  9
Right Torso                17       27
Right Torso (rear)                   6
Left Torso                 17       27
Left Torso (rear)                    6
Right Arm                  13       22
Left Arm                   13       22
Right Leg                  17       28
Left Leg                   17       28

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Snub-Nose PPC                   LA    10
TAG                             RA     0
ER Medium Laser                 LT     5
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Guardian ECM Suite              RT
Targeting Computer              LT

mbear

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #15 on: 02 October 2017, 08:38:17 »
TSM pretty much requires a laser battery to be used effectively, which makes the temptation to do "full contact recon" extremely strong.

If the intent is for your scout to stay alive a TC'd snubby really is the ideal system.

Well, you can disable heat sinks in game play, but I take your point.

Liking the new TC & SnPPC combo.

Sockmonkey

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #16 on: 02 October 2017, 22:47:35 »
For a mech that big with TSM I wouldn't be able to resist giving it a hatchet for headcapping melee attacks.
That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
If I had a nickel for every time I've legged a Warhammer, I could put them in a sock, spin it around and leg another Warhammer.

Iceweb

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #17 on: 02 October 2017, 23:22:35 »
For a mech that big with TSM I wouldn't be able to resist giving it a hatchet for headcapping melee attacks.

It's 80 tonnes, perfect for a mace for that 40 point hit. 
Just have a skilled enough pilot to use it. 

Dave Talley

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #18 on: 02 October 2017, 23:38:57 »
nah
I would rather have 2 punches at 16 points :-)
no extra tonnage needed
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I agree. Conditionally. I have no qualms kicking the favorite faction in the crotch--repeatedly. But the fact of the matter is, I prefer to kick EVERYBODY in the crotch as often as possible, like a game of whack a mole, only here's it's whack a crotch. Because we're playing in a wargame universe, and if you're NOT getting kicked in the crotch (repeatedly), then you're not in the ****** game.
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Major Headcase

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #19 on: 03 October 2017, 03:11:28 »
My favorite DC Charger is the Kamikaze. Improved JJs, Heavy PCC, 2 Light PPCs, and an MML 9. Oh, and a SWORD... choppy choppy... 😁 He's the commander of my Heavy Scout lance. Him, a Grasshopper, and 2 Jenners. Now, if only there were rules for a big bag full of magnetic homing devices he can slap onto an enemy mech by hand when he charges in and makes them soil their trousers... 😂
« Last Edit: 03 October 2017, 03:13:36 by Major Headcase »

Sockmonkey

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Re: Charger CGR-FS1, a heavyweight Forward-Spotter mech
« Reply #20 on: 03 October 2017, 03:41:14 »
It's 80 tonnes, perfect for a mace for that 40 point hit. 
Just have a skilled enough pilot to use it.
I'd still be leery of the targeting penalty. Heck, even with a sword the damage is still enough to headcap plus the sword's targeting bonus makes called shots to the head viable.
That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
If I had a nickel for every time I've legged a Warhammer, I could put them in a sock, spin it around and leg another Warhammer.

 

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