Author Topic: Shimmering Sword Art  (Read 20369 times)

jimdigris

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #30 on: 01 December 2017, 17:27:12 »
Don't forget the Crusader.

ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #31 on: 01 December 2017, 17:42:59 »
Don't forget the Crusader.

I always forget the Crusader.
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Tymers Realm

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #32 on: 01 December 2017, 18:47:45 »
The Valkyrie and Wasp should by up soon.
Once they're up, that's all of the Classics we know of, right?

mrbooth

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #33 on: 01 December 2017, 20:27:16 »
I always forget the Crusader.

While never a fan of the design I really want to see the new look.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #34 on: 01 December 2017, 20:41:21 »
Wasp and Valkyrie have been shown in the books but aren't yet on Shimmy's site.  No MAD II was made, and the Crud was never finished.  Not sure what the status is on that one.
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Juodas Varnas

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #35 on: 02 December 2017, 05:28:56 »
It's fine for 1985, and those of us who are used to it. It isn't fine for current standards, especially for potential new customers who may be discovering BattleTech through the video games.

So what's left? Wasp, Valkyrie, Scorpion, Goliath, and Longbow, with the Osts, LAMs, and Marauder II later?
And the Crusader.

But as far as i know, only the Wasp and Valkyrie are getting the redesigns from the ones you listed.  :'(

Scorpion's my favorite mech and i'm kinda bummed out that she didn't make the cut

Wildonion

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #36 on: 02 December 2017, 15:30:51 »
why mess with the Catapult? The latest mini is FINE as is...?



A pic of the new Catapult (not mine), in case that helps!

ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #37 on: 02 December 2017, 15:54:15 »
See, that looks like a heavy 'Mech.
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Bren

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #38 on: 03 December 2017, 16:54:10 »
Last two up.

No Crusader :/

Deadborder

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #39 on: 03 December 2017, 17:18:01 »
Last two up.

No Crusader :/

Shimmering Sword said that the Crusader's art hadn't been finished/finalised before the lawsuit put thigns on hold.
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Juodas Varnas

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #40 on: 03 December 2017, 17:18:29 »
Last two up.

No Crusader :/
I remember Shimmy mentioning that he had made a WIP for the Crusader redesign, but it will probably never be posted.

SteelRaven

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #41 on: 03 December 2017, 21:16:19 »
Missed that myself. Shame, I was wondering how that would have turned out.

Oh well, just have to wait a little longer (yes, I'm staying positive)
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ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #42 on: 03 December 2017, 22:07:53 »
There is a thread in General Discussion about the lawsuit.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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marauder648

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #43 on: 06 December 2017, 08:28:37 »
why mess with the Catapult? The latest mini is FINE as is...?

The Catapult mini looked like a young cat, it was all leg, no body.  It was a Mech in dire need of a re-draw and re-sculpt.
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SteelRaven

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #44 on: 06 December 2017, 13:23:37 »
Aesthetics of the Catapult is a matter of taste, though I remember most post regarding the plastic Cat was regarding scale rather than looks.
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Tymers Realm

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #45 on: 06 December 2017, 13:39:59 »
Just in regards to the pic above, it doesn't look too bad at all.
This redesign looks to mainly beef up the legs. Which was a PITA with the old Ral Partha minis, at least.
I'd love to see new line art matching this redesign.

pensiveswetness

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #46 on: 06 December 2017, 16:52:08 »
Aesthetics of the Catapult is a matter of taste, though I remember most post regarding the plastic Cat was regarding scale rather than looks.

that plastic Catapult, when it was made, was probably modelled after this http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/0e/Catapult_Colour.jpg?timestamp=20100405193710 pic, which i think the artist did up, probably to make that reference to the Mad Cat, make just a bit more sense than previously. Personally, I've never used that particular Catapult in play until i needed a proxy for a Viking recently... i don't even recall what box set or compilation plastic mini set that plastic cat came from. Can someone remind us of where it came from?

ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #47 on: 06 December 2017, 18:43:38 »
The "Fatapult" was from the old PlasTech boxed set; that image was from the cover. It predates the Mad Cat.
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pensiveswetness

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #48 on: 07 December 2017, 20:17:59 »
I wish i remember how i got the mini's (from that set) that i have. I have 1 Fatlas (that i am tempted to repaint once again), the Fatapult, and Two Trebs and 'Backs (one that i mod'd with a missile cap from a H-1 Copter Rocket Launcher) and a lone Locust... I know i got them in the late 90's as i didn't get into the game itself until 1995 time frame. Thank you, I'm gonna forever use that moniker for those two, mate :D

Nastyogre

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #49 on: 16 December 2017, 17:31:37 »
Is there s crusader? I don't see one. Am I missing it?

ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #50 on: 16 December 2017, 17:32:46 »
Shimmering Sword said that the Crusader's art hadn't been finished/finalised before the lawsuit put thigns on hold.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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beachhead1985

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #51 on: 19 December 2017, 07:53:30 »
I liked most of them, but I hate the locust and ostscout. The strength of the Nuseen; when they are at their best has been when they give you back the feel of the originals.

The Locust and the Ostscout fail to do that because they are basically fresh start designs.

I see what they are thinking providing backwards compatibility with the PP reseens...but most of those were crap IMO and shouldn't be touched with a 10ft pole.

Nothing bothers me more than this trend to give every new design a torso-twist though; where is the flavour? Where is the individuality?

I find the Phoenix Hawk and Wasp marginal because Shim seems to have forgotten which was supposed to have a right hand, judging by the art. The PHX might have a jettison-able weapon quirk, but Wasps haven't had right hands since TRO 3025 and it's a big distinction for the Wasp and Stinger. If that is the case with the PHX having that quirk though; why not have given the locust the no torso twist quirk?

All in all, I really liked most of these; the trooper mechs are especially well done, though my favourite is the Marauder. Let's see if we ever get it now, eh?

Of the ones I don't like, it's not going to send me into a rage to see them on the table, but nothing will and frankly, none of the ones I hate here rise to the level of pointless insult that is the new art for the Flea, which I honestly hope they never waste pewter on.

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Tymers Realm

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #52 on: 19 December 2017, 08:37:26 »
The thing with the Wasp, and Shim even mentions this in the comments, is even going back to the original record sheets, it has a hand actuator on the right arm. Is it a good thing? Maybe, maybe not.

Overall, I think Shim did a rather good job for this, in essence, first round of Classic redesigns. He especially nailed it with the Dougram-inspired Classics, Beemer not with standing.
Now if we can see new line art for the Awesome, Catapult, and Commando to match what'll be included in the GoAC box...

Juodas Varnas

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #53 on: 19 December 2017, 09:23:12 »
I liked most of them, but I hate the locust and ostscout. The strength of the Nuseen; when they are at their best has been when they give you back the feel of the originals.

The Locust and the Ostscout fail to do that because they are basically fresh start designs.

I see what they are thinking providing backwards compatibility with the PP reseens...but most of those were crap IMO and shouldn't be touched with a 10ft pole.

Nothing bothers me more than this trend to give every new design a torso-twist though; where is the flavour? Where is the individuality?

I find the Phoenix Hawk and Wasp marginal because Shim seems to have forgotten which was supposed to have a right hand, judging by the art. The PHX might have a jettison-able weapon quirk, but Wasps haven't had right hands since TRO 3025 and it's a big distinction for the Wasp and Stinger. If that is the case with the PHX having that quirk though; why not have given the locust the no torso twist quirk?

All in all, I really liked most of these; the trooper mechs are especially well done, though my favourite is the Marauder. Let's see if we ever get it now, eh?

Of the ones I don't like, it's not going to send me into a rage to see them on the table, but nothing will and frankly, none of the ones I hate here rise to the level of pointless insult that is the new art for the Flea, which I honestly hope they never waste pewter on.
Shimmy's Phoenix Hawk DOES have a RA hand (it's just the angle of the lineart obscures it, you can see the finger sticking out in Spooky's art though).

Also, the new Ostscout and Locust are GLORIOUS! And i totally don't understand the vitriol against the Flea, which is based on the MW4 appearance (and it has actually been given a model already, IIRC).
« Last Edit: 19 December 2017, 09:27:04 by Juodas Varnas »

beachhead1985

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #54 on: 19 December 2017, 10:06:49 »
Shimmy's Phoenix Hawk DOES have a RA hand (it's just the angle of the lineart obscures it, you can see the finger sticking out in Spooky's art though).

Also, the new Ostscout and Locust are GLORIOUS! And i totally don't understand the vitriol against the Flea, which is based on the MW4 appearance (and it has actually been given a model already, IIRC).


Thanks for the PHX pic, I'd have gone the other way on the wasp, but whatever.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, I think my position is pretty consistent and it follows through to the flea; it doesn't look like a flea; the flea we've been using literally since the first minis. Why? Why change it? The Bombardier is of similar vintage and the new mini looks great! Mostly because it looks like the original, it's just done better.

But, okay; MW4, sure sure. And I noticed the Templar III as well. But then, okay; where is the MW4 Fafnir?

If you are going to do that to two perfectly good and IMO: Better than perfectly good designs. Why not the Fafnir? At the same time, retire of one of the most problematic moulds IWM has.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

marauder648

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #55 on: 19 December 2017, 11:57:40 »
The original Flea is a small box on legs, its as asthetically pleasing as a box on a small pair of legs.  The Ostscout, the original Ostscout looked like it would spear itself with its leg if it thought about moving because the hip joint would snap under the stress of a 30+ ton machine running at 129kph on a joint that looked as solid and stable as a paper mache dinghy in a Atlantic storm. 

Yes the original art is iconic, but a lot of it that wasn't the Macross unseens was so bad.  Oh and the Atlas, that was fine.  The rest were either incredibly samey, or looked as flimsy as a soggy bit of cardboard.  Blocky messes of I AM A ROBOT FROM THE FUTURE!!! as envisaged by someone from the 1940's or ovoids with limbs held on with hopes, wishes and magnets.  The Banshee had sunglasses, the Flea's body is literally a cube, its a trumph of minimalism and is boring as all hell.  Shimmering Swords art is a VAST improvement over the original ones because it looks like A.  Something that could be made by the hands of Man.  B.  Something that won't fly apart if it twists its torso too quickly. 

Yes they are nostalgic, and we all like our nostalgia, I get that a lot from my parents, talking about the good old days of their youth, IE the late 40s to 50's.  You know, when rationing was still in full effect, when the UK was bankrupt and smog killed people.  Good old days apparently.  And I get it too! My first introduction to B-tech was the original 3025 book with the unseen in it and the 14 year old me (in 1994) thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.  But art has evolved, the designs have grown and save for a few shaky starts with some TROs (3058 and 3060  being problematic in my mind here) the art has gotten better.  Instead of having lines coming out of every weld and seam in the Mech we've gotten detail. Instead of boxes or angry eggs, we got sleeker, more potent and dangerous looking designs than 3025 could ever dream of.  The past is great, but we can't cling to it.

Yes the original art is iconic, but we can't cling to 'its a box with legs with lines coming out of absolutely everywhere.' forever.  Otherwise we don't evolve, imagine if any artist looked back to Cave paintings and said "We can never exceed this glory!"  In terms of detail, attention to being actually able to work and be something that looks like it would  work. Shimmering Sword, Plog and David White's art is the Mona Lisa, the statue of David and something by Vivaldi comparied to the original 3025 cave paintings.
« Last Edit: 19 December 2017, 12:12:53 by marauder648 »
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ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #56 on: 19 December 2017, 12:30:42 »
I agree with marauder648 here. Evolve or die.
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marauder648

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #57 on: 19 December 2017, 12:55:19 »
Thank you, I understand the love and respect for the original art.  But there's two problems.

1)  Its not ours, especially the Dougram/Macross stuff.
2)  Anything that wasn't Macross/Dougram is just aweful.
3)  Okay, 3 problems, people now days expect more.  They want stuff to look flashier, to be more detailed and the like. Unless they are really into minimalizim/Brutalism designs.  And if we want this hobby to survive and to grow, then art from the 80's is not going to cut it.  The asthetic and design, yes, but looking at TRO3025 and saying "all of this is perfection" will help kill Battletech. 

Imagine if the MWO folks produced their Mechs that looked perfectly like the 3025 stuff. A collection of boxes and eggs with haphazardly glued on limbs and said "Behold the future." people would think they were high.  It just don't look good. Not by todays standards and by what people want and expect.

And lets be utterly honest with ourselves here.  This poorman's rip off of an AT-ST



Is not interesting to look at, its not in any way shape or form dynamic, it does not speak of the setting, of it being advanced technology. Its a  small rectangle on gimpy looking legs with wee lil feet with 'toes' that look like flippers. 

Where as ths



Is immediately visually more interesting to look at, you can see its weapons, see the joins and go 'yes, I can see how this would move', you can see things like storage bins for its pilot, little sensor parts etc.  Its FAR more eye catching than "I AM BOX! IMPRESSIVE AM I NOT!!" of the original one.  And this is before it goes off to collect sea greens from the sea. 



Walking rectangle with sunglasses. or "Yo dawg, heard yo like body pannel lines so I put body pannel lines on yo body pannels"

VS



Something actually imposing looking.



When I move what part of my leg will break? Hip, ankle, knee? And how DO I walk with this swivel knee..do I move like a man with his leg in cast?

VS



Hi I'm a Scorpion, no I won't make killing you gentle.






« Last Edit: 19 December 2017, 13:03:47 by marauder648 »
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ColBosch

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #58 on: 19 December 2017, 13:00:59 »
Well, the original Scorpion is Unseen...
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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Juodas Varnas

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Re: Shimmering Sword Art
« Reply #59 on: 19 December 2017, 13:03:37 »
Well, the original Scorpion is Unseen...
And it's one of the sexiest designs in BT!

(Yes, i do realize this gif is from Dougram, but that's also where a lot of BT's mechs come from, from the Wolverines and Shadowhawks to the Scorpions and Goliaths)
« Last Edit: 19 December 2017, 13:05:54 by Juodas Varnas »

 

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