Author Topic: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?  (Read 35583 times)

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2421
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #60 on: 02 January 2018, 10:03:31 »
I see some niche uses for an Artillery 'Mech, and could probably justify having a lance of them in a battalion-sized formation, but the primary artillery compliment of the unit is still going to be either vehicle-based or towed.

As pointed out previously, it doesn't take much effort to put a Thumper piece on a turret-less Vedette, particularly if you're willing to live with a slight drop in speed to 4/6.  There's enough mass free to put in the artillery piece, 2-3 tons of ammo, and a small backup weapon (SRM or MG), and still armor it well enough to handle near misses from counter-battery fire.  A Sniper gun can be mounted instead, but there are some serious design trade-offs that need to be made, and it will likely need some kind of bodyguard unit for protection.

Assuming 3 turns of flight time after firing, that's enough to get up to 12 hexes away from your last position before your shells land, and the enemy won't even be able to get a fix on that last firing position until the last turn or two before impact at the earliest.  They then have to fire their own guns from BEHIND their lines, which means 3-5 turns before that fire arrives, by which time you could be as much as 21-32 movement points gone from there and ready to either fire again, or counter their counter-battery fire as soon as it's triangulate.  Firing from further away leads to lower accuracy and a greater delay between spotting and arrival, but makes it virtually impossible for the enemy to effectively use counter-battery fire against you.

Except for the tactical use of Arrow IV homing rounds, where a 'Mech makes sense as a firing platform, I don't see too many cases where 'Mech-based artillery has an advantage over a Self-Propelled Gun.  At the strategic level, the vehicle can do the mobile artillery job for a lot less cost, and where the mobility isn't required, towed guns are the obvious answer.

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #61 on: 02 January 2018, 10:23:17 »
One thing I think we're all falling into here is we're forgetting the scale of how big or not big Battletech battles tend to be. 

Unless its a truely epoc shaking fight on the scale of Tukkayid or the Liberation of Terra by Kerensky, most battles are comparatively small in scale.  I know I'm guilty of forgetting this a lot.  Once the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars had burned themselves out the size of operations dropped dramatically where a BIG fight might be a full on Regiment vs Regiment scale engagement.  But most would be Company scale, and here with fairly fast moving and small forces, having a logistics trail of tanks, supply vehicles etc is a bad thing, espeically during the constant raiding of the 3rd succesion war which was basically smash and grab or hit and run operations.

So in these small fights, a Mech with an arrow launcher could be a HUGE thing.  As the scale of battles goes up, so does the avenue for supporting elements, towed guns, SPGs etc.  But in a Company vs Company battle where one side has an arrow platform and the other does not, thats an advantage.
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #62 on: 02 January 2018, 10:45:40 »
2) So you've  built some loader 'Mechs, how are you getting it from one 'Mech to another? That's the kind of LostTech that was never recovered.

This is completely incorrect. All you need are hands and/or lift hosts, neither of which was lost. The rules for losing a mech when another mech is handy are in TacOps. Those are for reloading during combat, but nobody here's going to insult anybody's intelligence by implying you can't use the same gear during a noncombat situation.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2421
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #63 on: 02 January 2018, 10:49:39 »
In a company-on-company game, most artillery will be placed off-board because it's not on a "tactical" scale, but it may still need to be represented.  Arrow IV can be used on a tactical scale (in eras where it's available), and is often placed on the map.  That doesn't mean that Arrow IV can't be used as an off-board asset, or that conventional guns can't be place on the map, but their "normal" roles are as we usually see them.  Conventional artillery is better at area bombardment against fixed or slow-moving targets (buildings and infantry), while Arrow IV specializes in precision guided homing attacks against specific (usually moving) targets.

Given the option for one or the other, I'd generally prefer the strategic role, but some instances call for the tactical one, particularly if the opponent is fast-moving.  If your own situation or preferred playing style calls for one or the other, it's nice to have the option in the game.  My assumption would be that most military formations would have strategic artillery assets, but a few would include the tactical tools as well, as the recovered technology became available (which could be devastatingly effective against an opponent who was not expecting nor able to counter it).

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10402
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #64 on: 02 January 2018, 10:53:46 »
Fixed

Meh, I got around rules legal with a new set of rules.  ;)
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

snewsom2997

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2187
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #65 on: 02 January 2018, 10:57:49 »
1) You can orbital drop them far easier. So you don't need to clear a landing zone to land your droppers with tanks.
2) Who wouldn't want Artillery included in the very first wave.

Garrand

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 663
  • "Nicht kleckern, klotzen!"
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #66 on: 02 January 2018, 11:55:55 »
A lot of nice points, but one that hasn't been made about the usefullness of mech-based artillery is that if you put such a weapon system in a mech, you give the mech unit commander some artillery options that are ORGANIC to his/her unit. Battletech tends to depict military formations massively stripped down, more like pre-US Civil War regiments than something like a more modern combined arms regiment. FREX, the "standard" company in Battletech is 12 mechs in 3 lances. A modern tank company (US based for my bias) will have at least 14 tanks in 3 platoons, with 2 tanks for the company command section (though I think some companies at some point had 4 plt, though that might not be current). In addition there would be supporting elements in the Co Cmd section, like a pair of SP mortars. That's a good place to stick your Arrow IV Mechs, to give the company commander some organic indirect firesupport to support individual lances. Then if more support is needed you can call up the chain to Bn, Regt or even Corps level artillery (which is probably where you keep your vehicle mounded tube artillery). But also the point about a mech based artillery system is going to be able to keep up with the rest of the mechs in the formation. So I can see plenty of reasons why you would want mech-based artillery, in the same way today there are plenty of reasons to have SP artillery systems.

Damon.
Book Blog: bookslikedust.blogspot.com
Minis Blog: minislikedust.blogspot.com

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13286
  • I said don't look!
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #67 on: 02 January 2018, 12:24:39 »
And artillery is all about the prepared sites, there should be scouts out all the time looking for new places for me to shoot from because before I shoot I better know where I'm scooting to next

Sure you may know where you want to move to next but still you can't assume you'll always have the engineers, have the time, or that the enemy will let you use your prepared positions.

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #68 on: 02 January 2018, 13:46:59 »
A lot of nice points, but one that hasn't been made about the usefullness of mech-based artillery is that if you put such a weapon system in a mech, you give the mech unit commander some artillery options that are ORGANIC to his/her unit. Battletech tends to depict military formations massively stripped down, more like pre-US Civil War regiments than something like a more modern combined arms regiment. FREX, the "standard" company in Battletech is 12 mechs in 3 lances. A modern tank company (US based for my bias) will have at least 14 tanks in 3 platoons, with 2 tanks for the company command section (though I think some companies at some point had 4 plt, though that might not be current). In addition there would be supporting elements in the Co Cmd section, like a pair of SP mortars. That's a good place to stick your Arrow IV Mechs, to give the company commander some organic indirect firesupport to support individual lances. Then if more support is needed you can call up the chain to Bn, Regt or even Corps level artillery (which is probably where you keep your vehicle mounded tube artillery). But also the point about a mech based artillery system is going to be able to keep up with the rest of the mechs in the formation. So I can see plenty of reasons why you would want mech-based artillery, in the same way today there are plenty of reasons to have SP artillery systems.

Damon.
interesting angle. my take on that:

Mechs have the most mobility in the game, as well as the most durability and concentration of firepower. So it behooves a regiment commander to take advantage of their abilities and have as many options for their deployment available, and certainly 1 option that has been seen is Mechs operating on their own in a variety of terrains and atmospheres.

So if the situation ever arises that call for Mechs to travel through terrain impassable to other unit types (see note), a prepared commander ought to be able to pull together the assault, recon, artillery and logistics to make that happen. An enemy who is only prepared to fight in the open where his tanks can operate is an enemy asking to be flanked through heavy woods by a Mech force.

Note: IRL militaries spend lots and lots of money, effort and indeed lives to preserve the ability to flank the enemy through "impassable" terrain: Marines, Paratroopers/Air Assault, aircraft carriers, even tanks. Normandy was such a flank, so was Ardennes 1914 and (much less successfully) 1944; more recently, Gulf 1991. In fact from Sun-Tzu to Clausewitz to the most modern military doctrines, almost all military strategies can be boiled down to a flank of some kind... and the authors generally know it.

So in these small fights, a Mech with an arrow launcher could be a HUGE thing.  As the scale of battles goes up, so does the avenue for supporting elements, towed guns, SPGs etc.  But in a Company vs Company battle where one side has an arrow platform and the other does not, thats an advantage.
I will take a company of Mechs and two O-Bakemonos against an equivalent enemy force with four Thumpers 15 maps away at any time. Flight time is on my side; I can juke shells better than they can.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2445
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #69 on: 02 January 2018, 14:43:34 »
For us pre-3050 players, you can take a Hunchback 4G, yank the AC-20 and replace it with a Thumper.  Drop the extra heat sinks and add more ammo.  You could have 4 tons of ammo (80 shots), or 2 tons and add 4 jump jets.  It's the sort of thing where you'd want to have a couple of them attached to your battalion.

By the late Succession Wars, I see artillery as something where the threat of it is more effective than the actual use of it.  A "Thumpback" won't normally do all that much damage, but its presence will deter opponents from digging in a buttload of infantry.  Because the resources you have to devote to having a huge standing army of infantry is far greater than the resources the other guy has to devote to bring in some dedicated infantry-killers.

There's a lot of rock/paper/scissors in Battletech warfare.  Infantry is really good, until somebody brings something designed to slaughter them.  Then they suck.  So what you'd do is make sure you have access to a smattering of effective counter-units.  A lot of mech companies have a Rifleman, just in case someone brings in close air support.  The presence of so many Riflemen means that close air support is less common than it otherwise would be.  Sure, you could really devote yourself to it and swarm your opponent, but that takes dedication and resources, and you can bet the next invasion will bring more than just token anti-air forces.

The Thumpback would move with the rest of your mech forces, and in the event that you come across an enemy that had dug in, you pull your guys back 10 km and take a 15 minute coffee break.  Let the artillery bombard them until the ammo bins are empty.  Thumper ammo is cheap.  Keep a spotter (maybe a circling VTOL, maybe an infantry squad in a building) nearby to help direct fire.  Defenders can't zig-zag on the battlefield all day.  You won't get everybody, but you'll get somebody.

You can soften up a city before your main assault.  Or you can mislead the defenders by bombarding a different section of the city than the one you intend to hit ("They're attacking the Commercial District, send reinforcements there immediately!", and then you go somewhere else).  I don't think it's a weapon you use tactically, i.e., while your own units are on the same mapsheet as the target.  It's something you use to prevent enemies from "turtle-ing up".

Why not just use a regular vehicle?  You can, but there's probably a bureaucratic reason for putting it in a mech.  Combined arms is not always a guarantee in the Battletech universe.  That vehicle battalion might very well get reassigned elsewhere.  Also, having it on a mech means that the Overlord dropship carrying your unit doesn't have to be reconfigured to carry a support element.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #70 on: 02 January 2018, 14:46:29 »
I will take a company of Mechs and two O-Bakemonos against an equivalent enemy force with four Thumpers 15 maps away at any time. Flight time is on my side; I can juke shells better than they can.

Which is why, even with vehicle tube artillery, I like to have it on the map with me.  I also play Double Blind on MM a lot so I have places I can hide those vehicles without their protection bird dog'ing them to enemy cavalry.  I have also plotted out range for flight time to factor in to get TOT (Time on Target) to get more efficiency out of a single tube- fire one turn, move closer and shrink the flight time by one . . . single tube gets round to hit on the same turn at the same target.

The organic element is IMO one of the biggest points- if all the artillery is a battalion/regimental/brigade (BT terms) level asset, then a commander getting the fires when he wants/needs it does not always happen.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

anastrace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 75
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #71 on: 02 January 2018, 16:20:36 »
I never found a great use for tube artillery mechs, but to be fair I don't remember ANY designs when I started that carried them. I did have a custom lance of alacorns carrying a brace of thumpers that our merc unit used for artillery support. That was pretty effective for our needs (campaign was set in 3060). I'd love to see a superheavy that just decided to say "screw it" and just piles on the artillery.
Missiles, how do they work? (Seriously, guided bottle rockets?)

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4252
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #72 on: 02 January 2018, 16:30:37 »
One aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet is the threat potential artillery poses for DropShips; and the ability to deny DropShip landings is very valuable both on a strategic and tactical level. Which in turn makes organic artillery all the more attractive to have. And "organic" means 'Mech mounted for a 'Mech unit.
For area denial, ammo supply is a non-issue. You don't have to fire the artillery (no sustained barrage anyways), you just have to have it in position.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25813
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #73 on: 02 January 2018, 16:38:39 »
I never found a great use for tube artillery mechs, but to be fair I don't remember ANY designs when I started that carried them. I did have a custom lance of alacorns carrying a brace of thumpers that our merc unit used for artillery support. That was pretty effective for our needs (campaign was set in 3060). I'd love to see a superheavy that just decided to say "screw it" and just piles on the artillery.

The Helepolis is the only canon mech that packs a tube artillery.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

anastrace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 75
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #74 on: 02 January 2018, 16:52:21 »
If ammo is an issue, then surely karnovs, planetlifters (which are vstol at least), both of which should be able to supply units anywhere, should be able to handle that. Of course if you don't have air superiority, then your artillery would likely be getting a friendly visit from your local OPFOR aerospace units.
Missiles, how do they work? (Seriously, guided bottle rockets?)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25813
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #75 on: 02 January 2018, 17:02:56 »
But at that point, things can get funny if you packed a few tons of Arrow IV SAM rounds.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4252
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #76 on: 02 January 2018, 17:10:45 »
The Helepolis is the only canon mech that packs a tube artillery.
Schwerer Gustav is inclined to disagree... but granted, that's a one-off FrankenMech and not a production model.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13286
  • I said don't look!
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #77 on: 02 January 2018, 17:17:30 »
If ammo is an issue, then surely karnovs, planetlifters (which are vstol at least), both of which should be able to supply units anywhere, should be able to handle that. Of course if you don't have air superiority, then your artillery would likely be getting a friendly visit from your local OPFOR aerospace units.

Karnovs and Planetlifters cover a multitude of logistical sins.

But at that point, things can get funny if you packed a few tons of Arrow IV SAM rounds.

Then there is that.

Also something that was briefly mentioned but can't seem to find who said it but touching on the idea of fighting in environments where most conventional artillery can't operate.  At least not without a redesign.  Like if you have to fight on the surface of Luna as an example.  No air or toxic air means some flavor of fission or fusion and/or environmental sealing.  That can cause a lot of design compromises on a conventional vehicle.  Which leaves you with extreme environment infantry pulling around artillery which will have trouble keeping up, a vehicle that has to make a lot of sacrifices and still may not be able to keep up while being rather expensive for a vehicle, or a mech.

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #78 on: 02 January 2018, 17:20:26 »
Personally I don't get the fact that vehicles have to invest tonnage in environmental sealing, and for the life of my why IM also have to invest tonnage makes even less sense, BM get it for free!

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #79 on: 02 January 2018, 17:22:02 »
Which is why, even with vehicle tube artillery, I like to have it on the map with me.  I also play Double Blind on MM a lot so I have places I can hide those vehicles without their protection bird dog'ing them to enemy cavalry.  I have also plotted out range for flight time to factor in to get TOT (Time on Target) to get more efficiency out of a single tube- fire one turn, move closer and shrink the flight time by one . . . single tube gets round to hit on the same turn at the same target.

The organic element is IMO one of the biggest points- if all the artillery is a battalion/regimental/brigade (BT terms) level asset, then a commander getting the fires when he wants/needs it does not always happen.
That is a traditional problem and one everyone IRL is scrambling to solve by parcelling out artillery units more and more organically in different ways. Sometimes you need Napoleon's Grand Batterie; and sometimes you need Mercer's Troop of the Royal Horse Artillery. The key is how to flexibly have both...

I've toyed with doing that range trick to simulate MRSI but its playing the imperfection of the game system to break physics so I don't practice it.

Point is that when you're playing on a map full of heavy woods you can't bring the Thumpers with you. And that's where I'll be with my Catapult C5s.

Except for the tactical use of Arrow IV homing rounds, where a 'Mech makes sense as a firing platform, I don't see too many cases where 'Mech-based artillery has an advantage over a Self-Propelled Gun.  At the strategic level, the vehicle can do the mobile artillery job for a lot less cost, and where the mobility isn't required, towed guns are the obvious answer.
Thats exactly it - tactical use of Arrow IV Homing is where Arty Mechs excel.

SPGs don't just give mobility. They give protection. The response to Infantry Field Artillery Long Toms ie towed artillery isn't just counterbattery fire, its counterbattery fire with Inferno-IVs or Flechette shells or hell, a headhunting mission by a Firestarter and a squad of BA with flamers.

In the protection-mobility-firepower triad towed artillery score about 0/0/3, SPGs 1/2/3, and Mechs 3/3/1. Therefore use each according to its strengths and weaknesses.

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13286
  • I said don't look!
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #80 on: 02 January 2018, 17:31:30 »
Personally I don't get the fact that vehicles have to invest tonnage in environmental sealing, and for the life of my why IM also have to invest tonnage makes even less sense, BM get it for free!

Any answer to why besides a decision made long ago for the sake of game balance is just going to be a lot of handwaving I'll admit.

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4828
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #81 on: 02 January 2018, 18:08:35 »
In a way I'm wondering where the mkII (aka production and not refit) arrow catapult is.  IMO the thing to do would pull all the extra hs, swap for dhs,and put all the saved weight into ammo answer possibly 1 or 2 mediums if it doesn't have any.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25813
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #82 on: 02 January 2018, 18:19:38 »
Schwerer Gustav is inclined to disagree... but granted, that's a one-off FrankenMech and not a production model.

Nope, that's a Thumper Cannon, the sawed-off popgun that only hits out to 14 hexes.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #83 on: 02 January 2018, 18:27:37 »
Any answer to why besides a decision made long ago for the sake of game balance is just going to be a lot of handwaving I'll admit.

They just wanted mechs to be better than 100 ton tanks.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #84 on: 02 January 2018, 18:32:16 »
Nope, that's a Thumper Cannon, the sawed-off popgun that only hits out to 14 hexes.
Which is till perfectly fine for dealing with infantry and 'Mechs with too high TMMs

They just wanted mechs to be better than 100 ton tanks.
The problem with patch jobs on the rules like this is that sooner or later they stop working.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2445
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #85 on: 02 January 2018, 19:53:14 »
Which is till perfectly fine for dealing with infantry and 'Mechs with too high TMMs
The problem with patch jobs on the rules like this is that sooner or later they stop working.

No, the problem is that a portion of the fanbase wanted to take a game about awesome giant robots, and add in rules that treated tanks and infantry and other units "fairly".

It's like taking a Star Wars game and saying "why do the Jedi get all the cool stuff.  I want the rules to be fair to the stormtroopers."

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #86 on: 02 January 2018, 20:12:23 »
Yeah... but until you hit rough terrain I'm not positive what is different between a fusion powered tank and a mech.

Well. Except that the Mech is way cooler all the time... and tends to fire from a better vantage point.

Jedi are space wizards who can shoot your laser blasts back at you.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #87 on: 02 January 2018, 20:35:23 »
This particular point is about internal consistence rather then fair, especially when it comes to IM not getting weight free enciro-sealing.

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10402
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #88 on: 03 January 2018, 08:51:02 »
IndustrialMechs are often used in places they don't need environmental sealing where as BattleMechs are weapons of war that need to not be limited by terrain or environment. It's kind of like asking why civilian Hummers don't come with a blast chimney and vehicular armor.
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2421
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Re: Why Build Artillery 'Mechs?
« Reply #89 on: 03 January 2018, 11:41:03 »
Basically, I have no problem with the idea of artillery 'Mechs.  One must realize, however, that the roles of tube artillery (either towed or SPG) and Arrow IV guided munitions are considerably different, with some overlap.  The primary cost of the conventional artillery is the gun, the ammo is dirt cheap in comparison.  Arrow IV utilizes a less costly launcher, but the ammunition costs add up quickly.  Given the choice, one would have both: tube artillery for cost-effective sustained area bombardment and Arrow IV rounds for precision strikes against high-value targets (when the rounds expended cost more than the target, you're doing something wrong).

The differences in usage are similar to how artillery was utilized during WWII.  Germany produced a bewildering array of self-propelled howitzers and other SPGs, most of it attached fairly low in the chain of command to provide organic support quickly wherever it was needed.  The Soviets, in contrast, deployed their artillery primarily in massive concentrations higher up the chain of command.  In a rapidly moving situation, the flexibility served the Germans well.  When things bogged down into set battles, the massed Soviet artillery proved devastating if/when they had time to gather enough ammunition for a sustained barrage.

Granted, those principles were not applied without exception: the Germans did have a modest number of standard towed artillery batteries at the higher command levels, and the Soviets did employ some guns lower on the chain, but the emphasis was quite different between the two armies.  Then the Americans showed up and demonstrated how to apply the loving caress of artillery on a massive scale in both roles.

 

Register