Author Topic: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon  (Read 13294 times)

Jellico

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DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« on: 27 June 2013, 05:23:44 »
Straight up we are told that the Gorgon is a modern incarnation of the Titan. Maybe. At about half the size, station time, and fighting power it is a big claim to make. What the Gorgon is is a medium sized DropShip able to carry a wing of aerospace fighters, with a thousand ton cargo bay and enough armour and weapons to keep it reasonably safe.

With its action focused fluff the providence of the Gorgon is a little hard to pick, and likewise divine who uses it. My super-secret sources tell me it has been built at Andurien Aerotech since 3096 and just about everyone including mercs in the anti-spin-rimward corner has access to it. Given what we know about the Duchy of Andurien the Gorgon is probably a useful trading piece. We know the Marik Stewart Commonwealth operated several and Oriente and Andurien were participants in the Victoria War which saw FWS Reginald Marik captured by the Capellans.

The Gorgon’s primary feature is its eighteen aerospace fighter bays. This pretty much defines it as the wing carrying general access DropShip the universe has been screaming for since TRO 3057. The second most important feature is the thousand ton cargo bay and five hundred tons of fuel. Unlike every Inner Sphere carrier since the last Titan was destroyed the Gorgon can handle more than five reloads. Everyone does the calculations their own way with different assumptions. According to my numbers a Leopard CV or an Okinawa is good for three reloads while a Vengeance is good for one. A Gorgon can manage ten. You might not agree with the numbers, but the ratio is pretty clear.

In combat terms the Gorgon is roughly equivalent to a small assault DropShip. Think a Merlin or a Lung Wang. This actually makes it superior to most TRO 3057 ships of similar size. The armour is fairly thick for a transport and when combined with three AMS bays offer solid protection. Firepower is very conventional. LRMs, PPCs, lasers and gauss rifles offer a mix to deal with advanced armour types. Only the nose triple gauss bay is particularly notable with the remaining bays hovering around twenty points of damage. As a final note the Gorgon receives the Internal Bomb Bay quirk. The rules say an Internal Bomb Bay can drop six bombs a turn. Even using two ton anti-ship missiles that is a lot of potential fire. One hundred and twenty tons would turn the bomb bay into a continuous weapon doing one hundred and eighty points of damage a turn. Slightly less than every weapon on the Gorgon combined.

So, how does one use a Gorgon? Keep it away from battle and rely on the fighters would seem a good start. As an assault ship it has some use, especially with its bomb bay, but its true value lies in its ability to support extended aerospace fighter combat.
Defeating a Gorgon is simple enough. Whack it hard. The armour is nothing special and it is too slow to run on anything less than a strategic scale. A squadron of heavy fighters should be enough to do the job.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #1 on: 27 June 2013, 09:03:29 »
Not much to say about this ship, oddly enough. I think your bit saying that this is the mid-range carrier we've been waiting for since the 2800s pretty much sums it up. It's a good carrier, armor's up to snuff for any ship that doesn't expect to go toe-to-toe with a PWS or bigger, the launch rate puts out a full squadron per turn(not always a factor, but good to have if you have to fight right after a jump), and the weapons are well-suited to critting-out attacking fighter squadrons that get past its own screen. Point-defense coverage isn't particularly heavy, but is well spread-out. You won't be swatting Killer Whales down with impunity, but they're going to have to work for their shots, and combining that point defense with evasive maneuvers and angle-of-attack shenanigans can easily push a capmissile's to-hits up into the 'unlikely' range. Best of all, you've got the heat reserves and ammo bins to let those AMS go full-auto, so it'll be hard to overwhelm a Gorgon's PD.

Much is made of the Gogron's Bomb Bay quirk. Given the value of the ship compared to the amount of bombs you can release, I would NOT use this in a ground-support role except in extremely dire circumstances. I do like the idea of loading up on a few dozen Anti-Ship missiles. While obviously not in the same league as the larger ship, you can adapt the fighting style of the Vengeance-DC to the Gorgon pretty easily. Another thing to do might be to mix a liberal helping of ASEW missiles in there. A good salvo of those could potentially cripple an attacking DropShip(or even a WarShip if you're extremely lucky) for a turn, giving you a window for your fighters and/or escorts to inflict some telling damage.

If Regulus can get ahold of these ships, I think my ideal DropShip 'lance' would consist of two Gorgons, a Merlin R1, and some form of conventional assault DropShip, ideally a '57 Achilles. The main striking force would consist of the Achilles and four or five squadrons of fighters. The other ships would hang back, with the Merlin sniping with the SCL battery and providing extra PD for the carriers, as well as an escorting squadron or two of fighters for an additional line of defense. If anyone tries to punch through the forward force to the carriers, they're easily tough enough to hold the line until the strike group can reverse and catch the attackers in a purple-striped hurt sandwich.
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #2 on: 28 June 2013, 04:50:43 »
Just remember that Anti-Shiping Missiles count as capital missiles with regards to point defense

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #3 on: 28 June 2013, 15:12:42 »
That's actually really good news. The durability of a capmissile is directly proportional to its warhead(nukes obviously excepted), so an ASM will take 3 pts capital to kill completely. AMS can do that in larger bays, but not all canon ships have PD bays that powerful.

Hmmm...I need to check the rules, see if a large ASM strike like that is treated as a single bay, or if each missile would roll to hit(and/or be intercepted) individually.
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Jellico

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #4 on: 28 June 2013, 16:54:52 »
Not much to say about this ship, oddly enough.
I very much agree. It doesn't do much wrong. Traditionally armed. Does the carrier thing well. Boring yeoman. The sort of thing that wins wars.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #5 on: 28 June 2013, 17:37:48 »
The sort of thing that wins wars.

Now that's crazy talk... If someone wins the war, what would we write about?
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #6 on: 28 June 2013, 18:57:35 »
That's actually really good news. The durability of a capmissile is directly proportional to its warhead(nukes obviously excepted), so an ASM will take 3 pts capital to kill completely. AMS can do that in larger bays, but not all canon ships have PD bays that powerful.
Just remember that the rules for AMS against cap missiles are in StratOps and are possibly optional, so most groups aren't likely to be using them, also most ships don't mount much in the way of AMS, the Leviathan (Battleship) only mount 30, meaning chances are it isn't able to shoot down one missile, let alone six.

Hmmm...I need to check the rules, see if a large ASM strike like that is treated as a single bay, or if each missile would roll to hit(and/or be intercepted) individually.
It's a bomb attack (at least I'm pretty sure it is) a single roll and all six missiles hit is what I'd say, just be glad this thing doesn't have multiple cargo bays with the quirk

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #7 on: 28 June 2013, 19:20:38 »
Just remember that the rules for AMS against cap missiles are in StratOps and are possibly optional, so most groups aren't likely to be using them, also most ships don't mount much in the way of AMS, the Leviathan (Battleship) only mount 30, meaning chances are it isn't able to shoot down one missile, let alone six.

While I can't speak for your gaming group, when writing rules for Strategic Operations we were very aware of the nature of optional rules. It has been our finding that when it comes to Aerospace, optional rules are more used than with standard BattleTech play. The most popular version of movement, vector movement, is an advanced rule.

So the statement that "most groups aren't likely to be using them," has not proven true for Aerospace based on our surveys and research.

Thanks,
Joel BC
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #8 on: 29 June 2013, 00:54:06 »
Hmm...

Are there rules for bombing from orbit with inert chunks of metal?

I like this concept. A lot. The calls for carriers were ignored in the rush for transports, gunboats and eventually the PWS "fad" (which is awesome BTW, I always felt that real warships were somewhat...out of scale for Battletech, but that obviously is a personal opinion.)

I do have to wonder thought, it that triple gauss bay in the nose as much bad news as it sounds, or is it still just potentially useful flak to ace smaller targets?

Lastly, and this one is probably no longer applicable, isn't there supposed to be some sort of command lance, an additional pair of fighters, for many/some aerospace wings?

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #9 on: 29 June 2013, 01:09:35 »
Hmm...

Are there rules for bombing from orbit with inert chunks of metal?

At the risk or having Weirdo's game mates hate me, I could see a house rule that took the 'Mech drop rules and applied them to multi-ton hunks of metal. "Okay, I fail my pilot roll (since I don't have a pilot), how far does my 100 ton, Atlas shaped hunk of iron scatter?"
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #10 on: 29 June 2013, 01:26:22 »
Hmm...

Are there rules for bombing from orbit with inert chunks of metal?

I like this concept. A lot. The calls for carriers were ignored in the rush for transports, gunboats and eventually the PWS "fad" (which is awesome BTW, I always felt that real warships were somewhat...out of scale for Battletech, but that obviously is a personal opinion.)

I do have to wonder thought, it that triple gauss bay in the nose as much bad news as it sounds, or is it still just potentially useful flak to ace smaller targets?

Lastly, and this one is probably no longer applicable, isn't there supposed to be some sort of command lance, an additional pair of fighters, for many/some aerospace wings?

Not for Free Worlds Leaguers. The main faction to do that is FedSunners. Dracs use 12 Bird Squadrons IIRC (arranged into 6 Bird Flights), Cappies have 39 Bird Wings. But FWLers and Lyrans use 18 Bird Wings.
« Last Edit: 29 June 2013, 01:27:59 by VhenRa »

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #11 on: 29 June 2013, 02:28:24 »
Just reading that makes me wish for something a bit like Xtol's RAT's with their multi-era and faction force table but for Aero TOE's

Jellico

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #12 on: 29 June 2013, 02:44:07 »
Hmm...

Are there rules for bombing from orbit with inert chunks of metal?

I like this concept. A lot. The calls for carriers were ignored in the rush for transports, gunboats and eventually the PWS "fad" (which is awesome BTW, I always felt that real warships were somewhat...out of scale for Battletech, but that obviously is a personal opinion.)

I do have to wonder thought, it that triple gauss bay in the nose as much bad news as it sounds, or is it still just potentially useful flak to ace smaller targets?

Lastly, and this one is probably no longer applicable, isn't there supposed to be some sort of command lance, an additional pair of fighters, for many/some aerospace wings?
The gauss rifle's main use is as a 50 point weapon against small targets. Things tend to get critted or outright killed by that. It is not as bad as say the Triumph Assaults heptuple PPC bay.
OTOH the damage from the bay can go up to 200 with a high speed pass (see Strat Ops). About equal to a NAC20. But that requires special circumstances. What is more fun is getting the full aerospace wing up to relativistic speeds then using their ballistic weapons at capital scales. Goodness knows how that works for orbital bombardment.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #13 on: 29 June 2013, 06:23:49 »
Technically, it doesn't.
But the rules may say otherwise.
One shouldn't look for realism in that kind of game :P
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #14 on: 04 October 2014, 10:17:04 »
Hey, how many points of armor (or tons of armor) does the Gorgon have? Just curious.

EDIT: Nevermind, 51.5. It was on sarna and I just overlooked it.
« Last Edit: 04 October 2014, 12:00:42 by Alan Grant »

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #15 on: 04 October 2014, 11:50:00 »
I think the Gorgon was needed and neat unit to have. Its not flashy, but it gets the job done.

I guess the bombing run on Helm was one those extreme situations what called for the Gorgon's usual bombing capacity to come into play.  Center campaign a military someone is running.  Just watch out if the ship's name is named Tiger's Paw.  ;) ^-^
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #16 on: 04 October 2014, 13:00:28 »
With the whole "internal bomb bay" concept, I almost feel like the authors had the essence of the Adama maneuver in the back of their minds when they were trying to write the fluff for this dropship.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #17 on: 04 October 2014, 13:14:57 »
Much is made of the Gogron's Bomb Bay quirk. Given the value of the ship compared to the amount of bombs you can release, I would NOT use this in a ground-support role except in extremely dire circumstances.

Or if you're attacking a target that can't shoot you down. Speaking of which, I wonder if the Gorgon's bomb bay could be used for fuel-air bomb attacks. Does BattleTech even have a mechanic for that sort of thing?

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #18 on: 04 October 2014, 15:06:26 »
Hey, any educated guesses on what company or shipyards/factories build the Gorgon?

I know the TRO doesn't tell us. Any companies/facilities in Marik-Stewart Commonwealth space would be a prime contender since the two named vessels of the class were in the Commonwealth Navy. It's possible the facilities fell to the Wolves.


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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #19 on: 04 October 2014, 15:09:46 »
Or if you're attacking a target that can't shoot you down. Speaking of which, I wonder if the Gorgon's bomb bay could be used for fuel-air bomb attacks. Does BattleTech even have a mechanic for that sort of thing?

There aren't. I'd just use the rules for a small nuke, and leave out the secondary effects roll.
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #20 on: 04 October 2014, 15:53:26 »
Wait...now I'm confused. TRO 3145 FWL says that the Reginald Marik and Wanda Marik were sister ships. The Reginald Marik was captured by the Capellans in the Victoria War.

But according to Wars of the Republic, the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth wasn't involved in the Victoria War.

So...? Help me out here.
« Last Edit: 04 October 2014, 15:56:11 by Alan Grant »

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #21 on: 04 October 2014, 16:03:50 »
Marik-Stewart wasn't "involved" in the war, but that doesn't mean that there weren't any raids into Liao space to take advantage of the situation, or Liao raids to discourage the MSC from attempting exactly that. Reggie could easily have been captured on one of those actions.
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #22 on: 04 October 2014, 18:38:27 »
With the whole "internal bomb bay" concept, I almost feel like the authors had the essence of the Adama maneuver in the back of their minds when they were trying to write the fluff for this dropship.

<Remembers jaw dropping as I watched a Battlestar jump into atmosphere and fall like a brick while launching fighters in the skies over New Caprica>

"All hands...brace for turbulence..."

Bomb bays can carry AD missile, very nasty against ships

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #23 on: 04 October 2014, 19:02:02 »
Not for Free Worlds Leaguers. The main faction to do that is FedSunners. Dracs use 12 Bird Squadrons IIRC (arranged into 6 Bird Flights), Cappies have 39 Bird Wings. But FWLers and Lyrans use 18 Bird Wings.

Mercs also use the 20 bird wings, they also have a cmd flight at regimental for 62 birds.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #24 on: 05 October 2014, 07:32:27 »
What do the rules say on using a cargo bay as a bomb bay? Are the contents all launched at once? Is how many missiles/bombs you can fit in there based on the tonnage of said missile/bomb? Can you mix and match ordnance types?

I'm just not that familiar with the rules on this front. It's giving me some ideas, not just for the Gorgon.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #25 on: 05 October 2014, 10:54:45 »
Hey, any educated guesses on what company or shipyards/factories build the Gorgon?

I know the TRO doesn't tell us. Any companies/facilities in Marik-Stewart Commonwealth space would be a prime contender since the two named vessels of the class were in the Commonwealth Navy. It's possible the facilities fell to the Wolves.

I'm going to go with Kallon Industries of Loyalty.  Its in MSC space, which accounts for the two named vessels serving the Commonwealth, and unlike SelaSys' shipyard at Loyalty, Kallon escaped the Jihad (at least) undamaged.

That being said, Jellico in the original article did state that according to some undisclosed source, it was Andurien AeroTech manufacturing them, and that they use it as a trading piece since the Gorgon appears on a whole bunch of RATs (including merc ones).  This isn't a bad hypothesis (AAT of Andurien used to make Intruders, so they have a DropShip yard and experience in running it) and if it comes from higher up in the TPTB food chain who am I to contradict it. . . but what information we -- the gaming public -- have provides no basis to back up the claim.  As always, YMMV.
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #26 on: 05 October 2014, 10:57:04 »
What do the rules say on using a cargo bay as a bomb bay? Are the contents all launched at once? Is how many missiles/bombs you can fit in there based on the tonnage of said missile/bomb? Can you mix and match ordnance types?

I'm just not that familiar with the rules on this front. It's giving me some ideas, not just for the Gorgon.

Firstly, only units with the Bomb Bay quirk can do so. After that, you can only drop six bombd per turn. The rules are not clear if this means six individual bombs, or six bomb slots' worth of bombs. I would not advise using this rule until after someone has asked on the rules forum and gotten this cleared up.
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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #27 on: 06 October 2014, 12:24:04 »
With the whole "internal bomb bay" concept, I almost feel like the authors had the essence of the Adama maneuver in the back of their minds when they were trying to write the fluff for this dropship.

<Remembers jaw dropping as I watched a Battlestar jump into atmosphere and fall like a brick while launching fighters in the skies over New Caprica>

"All hands...brace for turbulence..."

I so wish that could be done in Battletech.  Have a warship with both fighter and mech bays.  Have it jump in drop its load and then jump out.  Rule of Cool

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #28 on: 06 October 2014, 13:26:01 »
I so wish that could be done in Battletech.  Have a warship with both fighter and mech bays.  Have it jump in drop its load and then jump out.  Rule of Cool

And what actually happens: Warship jumps in, drops dozens of multi-tons heavy nickel-iron slugs and several thousand gigajoule of accelerated particles on the enemy and then jumps out. Rule of really cool.

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Re: DropShip of the Week: Gorgon
« Reply #29 on: 06 October 2014, 13:30:51 »
And what actually happens: Warship jumps in, drops dozens of multi-tons heavy nickel-iron slugs and several thousand gigajoule of accelerated particles on the enemy and then jumps out. Rule of really cool.

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