Author Topic: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?  (Read 2245 times)

Red Pins

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The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« on: 05 August 2017, 01:23:19 »
It occurs to me there might be an opportunity in the wheeled BA to exploit a new niche; a trailer for BA.  Since my playtesters are long gone, I'm left to wonder what a reasonable project would resemble and the rules required to utilize (but not exploit) such a design would look like.

On the BA itself (in XTRO Republic II), the Remnant presents it a BA that, "could very well have become the linchpin of the RAF’s battle armor corps".  Using a Quad-BA frame, Stealth Armor, DWP, and modular turret, I'm not seeing any advantage in terms of mass or crits where wheels would become a preferred option.  Thus, I suggest the use of something a little odd - a  series of dedicated trailers, utilizing a specific type of weapon, and using a similar set of rules to the ones for vehicle trailers.

If it works, we know what some of the disadvantages will be (a loss of ground speed being the most serious) and the opportunity to provide a tow-vehicle for both purpose-built and official gun trailers a major bonus.  -Yes, I know some of the official trailers (like the namesake, 35-ton trailer of 3145: Mercenaries) might be too heavy to pull.  But, a rule that a top-tier Assault Tractor-BA must be at least 10% of a Trailer's mass would allow a 2 ton BA to tow a 20 ton trailer with a negligible investment.  Right there, it has the potential to break the 'No Super-units' rule of my AU - but a countervailing argument would be that proper gearing to allow the BA to move it would limit its speed to perhaps a single hex/Turn.  Certainly acceptable, in my eyes.

Also, wheels and axles require much less in terms of technology and mass; I'd expect a reduction of the mass required for the BA's Internal Structure in exchange, perhaps enough to allow a deliberately larger engine (and the resulting increase in speed) that might allow it to tow more than one trailer at a time.  (This is something I exploit in my AU; a C3-linked Lance of APCs with four missile- or Mech Mortar-armed trailers apiece become insanely dangerous.)  Since the tow BA is half legged/half wheeled, I think it might be reasonable to grant it the +1 MP when moving on paved roads of wheeled vehicles, as well.



...Imagine a 2,000 kg BA-T vehicle with a purpose-built 20-ton siege trailer using front-mounted RL-10s; even after 1/5 of the trailer weight is assigned to armor, that still leaves the possibility of Macross-style missile spam with 32 RLs or 320 missiles from a single unit.  Or, if sustained fire is desired, twin MML-9s with two tons of ammo apiece, half LRM and half SRM.  Or with Clan missile tech, three LRM-15s, CASE, and four tons of ammo.  If you're counting, that means that a BA squad (that might be equipped with BA C3) of four could fire 180 missiles combined, for about 10 rounds.  Missile spam, indeed.

So, comments?  Opinions?  Suggestions?  I suspect 10%, or ten tons, would be more realistic, although given the way teams of draft horses could out-pull tractors because of the traction advantage of their hooves over wheels, I might reconsider.
« Last Edit: 05 August 2017, 01:41:52 by Red Pins »
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Cryhavok101

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #1 on: 06 August 2017, 10:40:09 »
You could have a squad of battle armor pulling a trailer like it's a dog sled.

Red Pins

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #2 on: 06 August 2017, 22:56:05 »
Yup.

I'd like to know more about the possibility of a single BA trailer, though.
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Wrangler

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #3 on: 07 August 2017, 12:48:53 »
Well, i thought of another way they could use the Tortoise II.



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Cryhavok101

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #4 on: 07 August 2017, 14:13:21 »
I would figure out how large a trailer the battle armor can pull by:

(BA weight*speed)/(BA weight+Trailer Weight)

For a squad I would do:

(Single Suit BA weight*speed)/(Single Suit BA weight+(Trailer Weight/Number of suits in Squad))

Sorry for my overuse of parenthesis. I prefer the clarity of too many parenthesis to other denotations of order of operations. It reduces ambiguity, and doesn't expect anyone to remember order of operations or any of it's exceptions.

The resulting trailers would likely be somewhat small for single suits, and get larger for more suits. I would probably expect single suits to be having trailers built as small support vehicles and using infantry scale weapons.

Decoy

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #5 on: 08 August 2017, 01:39:42 »
Or....maybe the disposable weapon is the trailer?

Wrangler

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #6 on: 08 August 2017, 06:19:09 »
I didn't think Battle Armor were considered to be able pull/tow items like mechanized Infantry such as field weapons some the specialize infantry carry.  Those vehicles mechanized infantry carries were not really fleshed out (I believe on purpose). Be interesting if a quirk with Tortoise II would be allowed to do so.  Then again the wheels on it are fluff and have no influence on it's movement. If it were allowed, technically quads in general can tow stuff too. 
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Red Pins

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Re: The Tortoise II: Opportunity or mistake?
« Reply #7 on: 10 August 2017, 16:36:08 »
RL infantry pull winter sleds on snowshoes (I KNOW, I used to do it.  Its a real nuisance.)

So, there's a real potential to 'abuse' or 'exploit' these rules; I've asked the writers, and the one who answered loved the idea but couldn't comment.  I'm not really in favor of another formula, just a simple table.

First, any BA with a trailer must be a Quad.  (Why not?  Most are humanoid, lets throw a bone to the quads.)

Second, since we have L-M-H-A Battlearmor, we need four categories.  (I like even numbers - 1/5 makes a good number, so:  L-2,500 kg, M-5,000 kg, H-7,500 kg, A-10,000 kg)

Third, there's a major movement penalty to this.  Any that use one, move a max of 1-2 hexes/Turn.  (A Heavy or Assault unit with max movement, moves two.  A Light or Medium unit - even with max movement - is unable to do more than one.  Call it the need for a heavy transmission.)
*Light truck, light trailer.  Big truck, bigger trailer.

Fourth, the trailer needs an independent power and Heat management system.  The trailer uses standard vehicle construction rules, but has the option of BA or Heavy Weapons and Equipment.  (Because its a trailer.  It has to fight standard infantry up to Mechs, so it needs the variety.  Besides, I think its dumb vehicles don't carry both.  Even on the RL armored vehicles I drove in the CAF Reserves, they carried single-shot smoke grenade launchers.)

Its going to take a while for me to fluff it out and do research.  Anybody care to take this any further while I catch up on chores and laundry?
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

 

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