BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

Catalyst Game Labs => BattleTech Game Errata => Topic started by: Xotl on 28 July 2015, 16:11:04

Title: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 28 July 2015, 16:11:04
This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/

Some notes - read before posting:

 - How do I log in?  You can't.  The login is only for site administrators.
 - As this covers suggestions as well as errors, discussion is allowed in this thread.
 - This database does not include Dark Age availabilities for units published prior to TR 3085.
 - The entire Camospecs/Iron Wind Metals feature is still being worked on (as in: the entire way it works could change).  We're not going to be dealing with individual issues on this for a while.
 - Corrections not touching on the above are welcome.  However, please provide a page number and/or direct quote to support your case.  "Faction X should have this because I said so" is less than helpful and will likely be ignored.
 - If you have corrections for a unit entry, include a direct MUL link to the unit in question in your report.
 - If it's a BV or Alpha Strike stat correction, please enclose or attach your entire calculation and how you made it (by hand, SSW, MML, Heavy Metal etc; include version number of any software used).

Please keep your posts concise and polite.  Posts that do not follow these rules will be deleted.  Thank you.

WHAT IS THE MUL?
- The Master Unit List contains the latest Battle Values, Alpha Strike stats, faction availabilities, and introduction dates for as many units in BattleTech as we can manage.

- The MUL is an official Catalyst product, one that Catalyst provides for free to its fans.

- The MUL undergoes continuous amount of fact check and is constantly being updated.  Unlike a static print TRO, the MUL is able to be updated should something change.   It is every bit as official as any TRO or sourcebook, if not more in many cases.

- If a unit appears on the MUL, then enough validation was done to determine that "Yes, this unit existed and is not pure rumour."  This does not mean that said unit will ever see its stats published: that is not the purpose of the MUL.  The MUL's primary purpose is to provide a list of all known units in the universe, and their faction availability.

- That something is not on the MUL does not mean it does not exist.  The concept of "the needs of fiction" still apply to the BattleTech universe.  Not every factory, vehicle and handgun in the universe has been documented, nor will they ever be.  The MUL is what we know: what has been documented in canon. 

- Sarna.net is not a canon source.  If Sarna lists a Mech and the MUL doesn't, then the MUL is most likely correct (though we certainly do make mistakes).  The MUL has access to internal information that Sarna does not.



Project Updates:
Homeworld Clan and Late Succession Wars data is now available.
Star League and Early Succession Wars data is now available.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 July 2015, 19:30:18
Quote from: Welshman
Thanks for these, Mordel. If you think you know where the error is, that would be helpful in our analysis. Often these turn out to be bugs in the code for MML or SSW.

Now that you say it, I only compared my calculations against MML. Checking SSW did help with a couple as they match what is in the MUL. They are as follows:

Grand Dragon DRG-9KC
You can ignore this one. I didn't notice the legs had different amounts of armor. When I change the right leg armor to 22 per the record sheet, my calculation is likewise 1,147. So the MUL is correct (sorry).

Hatamoto-Chi HTM-28T (Shin)
SSW calculates the sword BV to be 15.53. My calculations and MML calculate it to be 31.05. I don't believe SSW accounts for the TSM, doubling the damage of the sword and thus doubling the BV.

Mauler MAL-2R
Unfortunately, the BV for this between my calculations, SSW, and MML all match at 1,586. So perhaps what is in the MUL was just a typo?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 July 2015, 19:52:45
The Banshee BNC-8S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/250/banshee-bnc-8s) has its Battle Value listed as 2,369 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 2,408. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
==============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                           288 x 2.5 x 1               720.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 145 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)    108.750  =   828.750
  Gyro (XL):                                  95 x 0.5             (+)     47.500  =   876.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                       
       Guardian ECM Suite                                          (+)     61.000  =   937.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                       2 Critical Spaces    (-)     30.000  =   907.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +3                   (*)       1.30  = 1,179.425
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                       1,179.425

==============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       ER Large Laser                                                     163.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                             (+)     62.000  =   225.000
       ER Medium Laser                                             (+)     62.000  =   287.000
       ER Small Laser                                              (+)      8.500  =   295.500
       Hatchet                                                     (+)     57.000  =   352.500
       LB 10-X AC                                                  (+)    148.000  =   500.500
       LB 10-X AC (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     19.000  =   519.500
       LB 10-X AC (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     19.000  =   538.500
       Medium Laser                                                (+)     23.000  =   561.500
       Medium Laser                                                (+)     23.000  =   584.500
       Small Laser                                                 (+)      4.500  =   589.000
       Snub-Nose PPC                                               (+)    165.000  =   754.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                             (+)    142.500  =   896.500
  Speed Factor:                               8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.370  = 1,228.205
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                       1,228.205

==============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                              1,179.425             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                         (+)  1,228.205  = 2,407.630
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                           2,408

The difference appears to be due to the fact that SSW calculates the hatchet at a BV of 28.50, whereas MML and myself have it calculated at a BV of 57.00. It appears SSW is not accounting for the increased damage due to TSM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 28 July 2015, 22:23:26
[Snip]
Verified and updated. Thanks mordel.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 30 July 2015, 03:08:52
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6977/uni-atae-70m-cargomech-mod

This is listed as the "Uni ATAE-70M MilitiaMech" in the RSVA IndustrialMechs and Exoskeletons pdf on page 95. On page 228 of TRVA Revised, its also called a "MilitiaMech" rather than a "CargoMech MOD"

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/884/deva-c-dva-o-achilleus

On page 45 in Wolf and Blake (and on other pages, that's just the main), the character's name is "Achillius" His mech is named the same way. Change the name from "Achilleus" to "Achillius"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 30 July 2015, 19:45:01
This is listed as the "Uni ATAE-70M MilitiaMech" in the RSVA IndustrialMechs and Exoskeletons pdf on page 95. On page 228 of TRVA Revised, its also called a "MilitiaMech" rather than a "CargoMech MOD"
changed.

Quote
On page 45 in Wolf and Blake (and on other pages, that's just the main), the character's name is "Achillius" His mech is named the same way. Change the name from "Achilleus" to "Achillius"
I left this one alone for now. The record sheet has it as Achilleus. I also found it in other places in the book as that. There is one more reference with it spelled as Achillius than Achilleus. There is no errata for it. I dropped a question for Ben in the ask the writers forum. Once we get confirmation either way, we can put it in the errata thread and, if needed, change the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 August 2015, 13:33:58
OK, with Homeworld Clan data now available during the Civil War and Jihad eras I've taken a look at the availabilities for all ProtoMechs and compared them with notes of my own. I found a few discrepancies which might be worth looking into. Keep in mind that most of my "sources" were RATs, since ProtoMechs were never really fluffed out one way or another.

Code: [Select]
ProtoMech   Era     Missing Faction
Satyr       Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085)
Satyr 2     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental)
Satyr 4     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085)

Centaur     Jihad   Hell's Horses (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085, Obj:Clans - mentioned as being in production)

Chrysaor 2  Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085)
Chrysaor 2  All     Wolf-in-Exile (source: Combat Equipment)

Roc         Jihad   Hell's Horses (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085)
Roc 2       Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085)
Roc 2       Jihad   Society (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental)

Delphyne    Jihad   Snow Ravens (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 03 August 2015, 04:02:35
Found a simple typo tonight regarding the Batu [Z] (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3809/batu-z).

Among the listed specials is "VTOL"... which is not a valid Special.

suggested change: "VSTOL" (to match the other variants on the MUL)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 04 August 2015, 10:20:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5278/trident-trn-3v

This is listed as "Introductory" but the Record Sheet on page 319 of the RS3050U-C has it armed with ER and Pulse lasers.

Fix is to make it atleast Standard. That's what the Record Sheet says (or atleast it doesn't say anything other than "Inner Sphere"). The problem is the RS doesn't say how to make the design exactly, and the Fuel is listed as "3 points" which is obviously wrong. If that 3 points means tons instead, then I THINK the design has to be made with a small aerospace cockpit, which would make the design Advanced until 3081.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 August 2015, 10:29:13
"If rumors of a high-performance teleoperated version are to be believed, it is quite possible that the additional room normally taken by the cockpit could allow another laser system or even higher-grade weapons."

Drone perhaps? Checking, but yes, I'm thinking it needs Advanced at least.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 August 2015, 21:11:54
Found a simple typo tonight regarding the Batu [Z] (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3809/batu-z).
Fixed

GreekFire: I'll look into them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 07 August 2015, 14:08:30
The Highlander HGN-694 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5493/highlander-hgn-694) has its Battle Value listed as 2,358 (which matches MML and SSW). According to my calculations, the BV for this unit should be 2,369. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                       279 x 2.5 x 1                697.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 138 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    155.250  =   852.750
  Gyro (Standard):                                        90 x 0.5              (+)     45.000  =   897.750
  Explosive Equipment:                                    2 Critical Spaces     (-)      2.000  =   895.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,074.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                    1,074.900

===========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Gauss Rifle                                                                     320.000             
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                                     (+)     40.000  =   360.000
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                                     (+)     40.000  =   400.000
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                                     (+)     40.000  =   440.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle                                                        (+)    346.000  =   786.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   829.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   872.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   915.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   958.000
       Large Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  = 1,081.000
       Large Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  = 1,204.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                          (+)     90.000  = 1,294.000
  Speed Factor:                                           5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.000  = 1,294.000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                    1,294.000

===========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           1,074.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                      (+)  1,294.000  = 2,368.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                        2,369

The difference is due to the fact that MML and SSW both calculate the explosive equipment penalty as -11 whereas I calculate it as -2. The reason for this is because only 2 critical slots of the HGR is located in the CT. The other 9 are located in the LT, which is protected by CASE. This situation is covered under the Critical Hits sub-section on page 136 of TW. Since the explosion happens in the side torso only (because of CASE), the damage would not transfer, and thus the 9 HGR slots in the side torso should not be considered for explosive equipment.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 09 August 2015, 07:59:27
The Highlander HGN-694 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5493/highlander-hgn-694) has its Battle Value listed as 2,358 (which matches MML and SSW). According to my calculations, the BV for this unit should be 2,369. The calculations are as follows:

Thanks. Corrected and updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 09 August 2015, 16:02:32
I'd like the Intro dates checked for the Rifleman RFL-3N and Rifleman II RFL-3N-2.

RFL-3N: 2770
RFL-3N-2: 2720

It seems to me that the RFL-3N should be around LONG before a "II" version of it is invented. The gap between the -2N's intro date of 2556 and the -3N's of 2770 seems pretty profound. This should perhaps be changed to around the time the RFL-3N-2 was introduced, with proliferation to the Member States at the original date of 2770.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 10 August 2015, 15:15:08
The Wolverine WVR-9K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3581/wolverine-wvr-9k) has its Battle Value listed as 1,397 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 1,420. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                       185 x 2.5 x 1               462.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 91 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    102.375  =   564.875
  Gyro (Compact):                                         55 x 0.5             (+)     27.500  =   592.375
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                                   (+)      2.000  =   594.375
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                                   (+)      2.000  =   596.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +3                   (*)       1.30  =   775.288
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                     775.288

==========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Light Machine Gun (Ammo 100)                                                     0.500             
       Light Machine Gun (Array)                                               (+)      8.350  =     8.850
       Light Machine Gun (Array)                                               (+)      8.350  =    17.200
       Light Machine Gun (Array)                                               (+)      8.350  =    25.550
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                           (+)    165.000  =   190.550
       SRM 4                                                                   (+)     39.000  =   229.550
       SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                                         (+)      5.000  =   234.550
       Sword                                                                   (+)     24.150  =   258.700
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                         (+)     82.500  =   341.200
  Speed Factor:                                           9 (Run) + 3 (Jump)   (*)      1.890  =   644.868
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                     644.868

==========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            775.288             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                     (+)    644.868  = 1,420.156
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                       1,420

This is due to the fact that SSW did not factor in the modified damage for the sword as a result of TSM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 10 August 2015, 15:18:26
Minotaur P2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4643/minotaur-p2), per TRO:Prototypes it has Magnetic Clamps, so it's AS card should have the MCS special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 August 2015, 15:23:29
Minotaur P2 fixed. thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 10 August 2015, 17:28:53
The Wolverine WVR-9K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3581/wolverine-wvr-9k) has its Battle Value listed as 1,397 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 1,420. The calculations are as follows:
Verified and updated. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 11 August 2015, 02:37:46
crosscut (RL) and Crosscut (flamer) need 0* stats. (their weapons are weak, but do exist.)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6973/crosscut-ed-x2-rl
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6972/crosscut-ed-x2-flamer

severla crosscut variants need cards generated.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4024/crosscut-ed-x4-loggermech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7168/crosscut-ed-x4b-demolitionmech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4025/crosscut-ed-x4d-demolitionmech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7169/crosscut-ed-x4m-loggermech-mod
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4026/crosscut-ed-x4x-loggermech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7170/crosscut-ed-x5m-loggermech-mod
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7171/crosscut-ed-x5m-b-demolitionmech-mod

(not sure if they're just waiting for cards or got overlooked)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 August 2015, 06:31:58
Most of vehicle annex IMs needs stats except those already in Operation Klondike.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 12 August 2015, 00:06:09
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t)

Please review the Rokurokubi RK-4T damage line.  I believe it should be zero for the long range bracket.  It has a long range damage of 1, but is only equipped with a light AC/5 which does damage up to medium range.

If this correction is valid the point value should come down to 25 as well. 

Thanks

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 August 2015, 21:15:32
The Raven RVN-4LC is stealth armor on the reconrdsheet but not Stealth on the AS stats.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 14 August 2015, 16:05:03
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/173/awesome-aws-11m (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/173/awesome-aws-11m)

Hello,

Another request for review.  The Awesome 11M has a OV value of 2, I believe this should be zero.

The design has a max heat of 42 (x8 LPPC @ 5 heat each, plus 2 running heat) and carries 20 DHS.

This would reduce the point value to 42 if it is correct.

Thank you
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2015, 16:12:46
AWS-11M fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2015, 16:16:28
The Raven RVN-4LC is stealth armor on the reconrdsheet but not Stealth on the AS stats.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc

STL added, PV adjusted to 26.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2015, 16:17:25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t)

Please review the Rokurokubi RK-4T damage line.  I believe it should be zero for the long range bracket.  It has a long range damage of 1, but is only equipped with a light AC/5 which does damage up to medium range.

If this correction is valid the point value should come down to 25 as well. 

Thanks

Correct, L and PV, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 August 2015, 21:58:06
The Seraph C-SRP-OR (Ravana) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2875/seraph-c-srp-or-ravana) has its Battle Value listed as 1,941 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 1,957. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                     256 x 2.5 x 1                640.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Light Fusion Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    146.250  =   786.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                      85 x 0.5              (+)     42.500  =   828.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                              (+)     45.000  =   873.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                            +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,048.500
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                  1,048.500

=========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Large VSP Laser                                                               123.000             
       Retractable Blade                                                      (+)     31.050  =   154.050
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                          (+)    165.000  =   319.050
       Thunderbolt 20                                                         (+)    305.000  =   624.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   662.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   700.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   738.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   776.050
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                        (+)    127.500  =   903.550
  Speed Factor:                                         6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.120  = 1,011.976
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                  1,011.976

=========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,048.500             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                    (+)  1,011.976  = 2,060.476
  Cockpit (Small):                                                            (*)       0.95  = 1,957.452
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                      1,957

This is due to the fact that SSW did not factor in the modified damage for the retractable blade as a result of TSM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RotS fan on 16 August 2015, 22:04:12
AWS-11M fixed, thanks.
I believe that the OV2 was correct. The 11M has 4 ppc capacitators and it overheats considering them
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 16 August 2015, 22:17:20
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/alpha-strike-101/ppcs-with-capacitor-conversion/ (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/alpha-strike-101/ppcs-with-capacitor-conversion/)

Based on this conversation I found nothing about PPC with capacitors having special rules.  As such the conversion table in the AS companion lists LPPCs as 5 heat with 0.5 damage each. 

I did suggest one possible change

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/as-heat-for-ppcs-with-capacitors/ (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/as-heat-for-ppcs-with-capacitors/)

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 06:33:44
I believe that the OV2 was correct. The 11M has 4 ppc capacitators and it overheats considering them

I thought so as well (hence why it had OV2 in the first place). But both SO and ASC list the light ppc with capacitor as 5 heat. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 17 August 2015, 11:35:23
The Basilisk Quad-B (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5835/basilisk-protomech-quad-b) has an AS card with a 1/1/0 damage rating. Given that BQ-B is unarmed save for the melee weapon(WoR Supp, pg 43), shouldn't the damage be 0/0/0?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 11:58:56
Wulfen [E] (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6261/wulfen-e)

Current Damage for Alpha Strike 3/3/0*. 

Suggested Change: I believe the damage band should be 4/3/0*, which retroactively increases the PV by 1 (from 26 → 27)

Weapons
. 2@ATM3 (10 shots each) for 4 subtotal Heat
. . Damage Bands = 1.2/0.8/0.4
. 2@ERMedium Laser for 10 subtotal Heat
. . Damage Bands = 1.4/1.4/0
. . . Targeting Computer modifier x1.1
. . . . adjusted Damage Bands = 1.54/1.54/0
. MicroPulse Laser for 1 subtotal Heat
. . Damage Band = 0.33/0/0
. . . Targeting Computer modifier x1.1
. . . . adjusted Damage Bands = 0.363/0/0

. Base Damage = 3.103 / 2.34 / 0.4
. . or "4 / 3 / 0*"
15 Total Heat for Weapons

(Not enough heat to modify the damage down, but for clarity...)
(. 22 total dissipation {11 double heatsinks})
(. 15 weapon heat)
(. 10 stealth heat)
(. 2 engine heat)  correction: 4 engine heat (2 x 2; thank you Moonsword)
(. . 27 total heat 29 heat )
(. . . Short Range [4*22] / [27-4] [29-4)
(. . . . ~3.82608 ~3.52 )

Edit: corrections for heat
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 13:20:45
3.103 damage at short range, * 22 heat sink dissipation, /23 (27 heat build up -4) = 3.0.  That is enough to drop the 4 to a 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 14:23:31
The text is actually rather vague for calculating Heat-modified damage: the main problem is that it says to modify the "base damage values", (ASC p. 115) but there's no definition as to what that is.  On p. 99, where you first calculate your damage values, it says "At the most basic level" you round when calculating damage (ASC p. 99), and then, right after that, it says "the damage values determined here" are used if you have to modify for heat.

I can easily see why some would round up to the nearest whole number before applying heat, rather than after.  I'll see about adding clarifying notes to p. 99 and p. 115 (and I have to update my conversion spreadsheet, since I made the same mistake).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 14:54:12
There's two different points at which you round.
as part of heat modification (p115) = round up to nearest tenth.
final value (p99) = round to whole number.  (Up for standard damage values, normal for special abilities).

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 15:06:41
I've clarified my post, but it's more a question of the text being unclear as to when you make that first rounding at all, rather than a question of in what way you round.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 15:14:13
Ah, gotcha.  Yes, the rounded to whole number values should not then be heat-modified.  Heat-modification comes first.
It should also clarify the rounding to tenth in heat-modification happens even if the unit is otherwise not heat modified.

1. Total up all damage values.
2. Heat Modify as necessary for heat modified damage values.
3. Round damage values up to nearest one-tenth (even if not heat modified)
4. Round (up for standard, normal for special abilities) to nearest whole number for final damage values.

Step 3 is necessary even if damage values do not qualify to be heat modified because otherwise it's possible for heat to actually raise a damage value.  That would be silly :).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 15:25:47
Hmmm

I don't mean to argue with the process here, but I'd like point out that "OV" values have always been whole numbers.  The reason I think the way I converted is correct is because there isn't enough "heat reduction" to warrant an OV value.

In this example...
. Heat Multiplier = 22/23 ~ 0.9565217... lets just go with "0.957"  22/25 ~ 0.88
. Short Range Base Damage [SBD] (not-rounded) = 3.103
. . SBD x Heat Multiplier = 2.97   2.73064 ~ 2.731
. . 3.103 - 2.97 = ~0.133 3.103 - 2.731 = 0.372

I didn't think 0.133 0.372 was enough to grant "OV1"... nor reduce the damage below its original value (3.103 ~ 4)

And I'm not trying to be snarky, just speculative.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Moonsword on 17 August 2015, 15:29:46
Is that heat total supposed to use movement heat?  If so, maybe it should be 6 on the Wulfen, not 2 - it has an XXL engine.

I'm not able to look at my books right now so take that with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 15:34:46
Is that heat total supposed to use movement heat?  If so, maybe it should be 6 on the Wulfen, not 2 - it has an XXL engine.

I'm not able to look at my books right now so take that with a grain of salt.

oh crap, I missed that.  Sorry all :(
<recalculating...>


EDIT:  +2 heat didn't really change where I rounded (double engine heat for the conversion, page 115.  I will edit my previous posts.  Thank you MoonSword
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 17 August 2015, 15:48:59

I didn't think 0.133 was enough to grant "OV1"... nor reduce the damage below its original value (3.103 ~ 4)


And yet, that 0.133 is more than the .103 that would have given a 4 in the first place.  If anything, it shouldn't have overheat OR a 4 damage value by this logic.  :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 15:54:20
And yet, that 0.133 is more than the .103 that would have given a 4 in the first place.  If anything, it shouldn't have overheat OR a 4 damage value by this logic.  :)

yeah.  I'm giving myself a headache over this one.  I'm sorry I'm not being very helpful guys :(
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 15:59:50
yeah.  I'm giving myself a headache over this one.  I'm sorry I'm not being very helpful guys :(

Don't worry about it: you made me realize I had made a mistake, and ensured the wording would be clearer in the future.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 16:20:55
Short damage has nothing to do with calculating OV.  OV is calculated based on whether or not Medium damage changes due to heat modification.  It doesn't matter if Short does or doesn't change.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 16:23:16
Short damage has nothing to do with calculating OV.  OV is calculated based on whether or not Medium damage changes due to heat modification.  It doesn't matter if Short does or doesn't change.

Yup.  I was going off the presumption that "OV 0" meant "full Short Range damage" which was (previously) 3.103... thus my initial post about the Wulfen.

I can see that I was wrong now (in my calculations).  Please disregard my request to update the unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 16:35:04
Will do, and don't worry about asking questions.  I only know what I know because people (Alexander Knight and others) kept pointing out my mistakes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 17 August 2015, 16:39:05
And as for me....waayyy too much time staring at the numbers and various conversions.  #P
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 17 August 2015, 17:22:44
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx72/LouieN/Misc/Wulfen%20E.jpg)

This is what I get for the Wulfen E.

The long range is a 0* because it is only .4 damage. The OV is zero as it is based ONLY on the medium range calculation.

So I have 3/3/0*

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 17 August 2015, 18:09:22
The Basilisk Quad-B (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5835/basilisk-protomech-quad-b) has an AS card with a 1/1/0 damage rating. Given that BQ-B is unarmed save for the melee weapon(WoR Supp, pg 43), shouldn't the damage be 0/0/0?
Yep. Fixed. Should update within the next 24 hours.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 17 August 2015, 19:58:56
Please review the Wulfen D and E based on the latest errata for XXL engine movement heat.

The D model I calculate a .53 damage at medium range. This would allow it to have 1 damage. 

The model E alters from my post above to a 3/2/0* with a 1 OV.

Point cost may alter to 25.

All other models were unchanged by the new heat.

Thanks

Any other XXL mechs to check?

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 20:18:02
The errata is the way the MUL team had been doing XXL engines. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 20:25:19
Still, I think he's right on both counts.  It looks like the Wulfen D would be 0*/1/0*, and the Wulfen E 3/2/0* with OV1.

Granted I'm still double-checking to make sure my sheet is right after the changes, but I'm getting the same numbers he is.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 17 August 2015, 21:23:40
I'm matching those values as well. I'm getting point values for the D and E as 20 and 26 respectively.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 21:35:46
[Pre-Errata] The XXL engine only counted for double Movement Heat, not +6 (as Walking MP in Standard BT)

On the Wulfen E, Movement Heat would be 4 (Engine +2, x2)

At Medium Range, the MicroPulse laser doesn't count (max range = short) which is why I calculated at Short Range to start with (mistakenly not Calculating Medium Range default)

. Medium Range Damage = 2.34
. Total Heat @Medium Range = 28
. Heat Dissipation = 22
. . Damage Multiplier = 22/(28-4) = 0.91666 ~ 0.9
. . . 2.34 * 0.9 = 2.106

2.1 rounds up to 3 @ Medium Range, OV 0.

[Post errata]
...22/(30-4) = 0.856 ~ 0.9... rounds the same? 0.846 ~ 0.8 (rounds down).  Finger slipped... thanks for the correction, Louie
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 17 August 2015, 23:00:02
For the Wulfen E it is...

22/26 = .846 X 2.34 = 1.98

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 18 August 2015, 10:42:26
Sooo... it looks like Wulfen "E" should have Damage Bands: 3/2/0*, OV1 ?

Retroactively changes the PV from 26 to 25?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 August 2015, 10:53:46
Note the micro pulse laser still counts for heat at medium range.  So it's 31 heat (-4).  But yeah, that just makes the medium range damage even lower.  So PV 25, 3/2/0*, OV1, changes coming up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 18 August 2015, 11:19:23
First thanks to the MUL team as always, the above stats are correct

Just to provide the backup calculations on the little Wulfen E, nasty little guy, so people can see how we got to the above. 

(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx72/LouieN/Misc/Wulfen%20E.png)

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 August 2015, 12:00:52
the Micro Pulse laser's heat still counts toward medium range calculations.  All weapons count toward short and medium, regardless of their own range limitations.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 21 August 2015, 09:41:54
Coyotl A http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/713?skill=4

Move should be 14"j. Not sure at this point if it affects the PV.


Xotl: updated.  Costs raises to 34 points.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 21 August 2015, 10:58:22
the Micro Pulse laser's heat still counts toward medium range calculations.  All weapons count toward short and medium, regardless of their own range limitations.

nckestrel,

I am sorry.  I did not understand your statement earlier.  Now I see what you are saying.  I would just ask that this be clarified, because nothing in the AS companion suggest weapons contribute heat outside their range band.  Or at least I have not found it. 

Thanks for the clarification. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 21 August 2015, 11:28:51
It's not so much that it specifically states to use all weapons for non-Long-range OV as much as it says only to separate out Long and always refers to "maximum heat output" rather than any sort of segregated heat output.  But yes, it could be clearer.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 21 August 2015, 14:28:11
I agree. It could use more clarity for the crazy number cruchers.

  The "Heat-Modified Damage" paragraph talks about developing the modified damage per each range bracket
 With the "calculating Overheat Value" saying you use the medium, if avaliable, to determine the OV.

Also the "Determining Overheat" talks about it it "at a given range bracket"

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 23 August 2015, 19:55:12
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5228/thug-thg-11e-reich

Thug THG-11E (Reich): I believe the listed source TRO, Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, is incorrect as I can find no mention of it on the Thug's entry, p. 216.  Source should be Field Manual: Mercenaries Supplemental 2, p. 64.

-----

http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/268

Cover picture for Field Manual: Mercenaries is incorrect.  That is the cover of Field Manual: Mercenaries Revised.

-----

Also, I don't know if it's an error or just a limitation of the system, but searching for "Rubinsky" only brings up the Scorpion SCP-1N (Rubinsky) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4994/scorpion-scp-1n-rubinsky) and Archer ARC-2R (Rubinsky) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3722/archer-arc-2r-rubinsky).  To find the Rifleman variants Rubinsky 1 and Rubinsky 2, you have to search for "Rubinsky 1" and "Rubinsky 2" respectively.  Meanwhile, searching for "cat" brings up every unit with the letters c-a-t in the name.  (unchecking the BV box worked.  my bad.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 August 2015, 20:36:36
The Rifleman entries do not have BV. Uncheck the box for only units with BV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 August 2015, 20:39:20
quo
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5228/thug-thg-11e-reich

Thug THG-11E (Reich): I believe the listed source TRO, Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, is incorrect as I can find no mention of it on the Thug's entry, p. 216.  Source should be Field Manual: Mercenaries Supplemental 2, p. 64.
correct. fixing. thanks.


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 August 2015, 21:11:00
Getting back to the faction data from GreekFire:

Satyr       Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085) - added
Satyr 2     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental) - added
Satyr 4     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085) - added

Centaur     Jihad   Hell's Horses (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085, Obj:Clans - mentioned as being in production) - added

Chrysaor 2  Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085) - added
Chrysaor 2  All     Wolf-in-Exile (source: Combat Equipment) - added Jihad only (give it at least a year before they make it to them)

Roc         Jihad   Hell's Horses (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085) - added
Roc 2       Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085) - added
Roc 2       Jihad   Society (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental) - they do not have the Roc 2. They have the Roc Z

Delphyne    Jihad   Snow Ravens (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental) - added
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 23 August 2015, 21:59:47
*snip*

Hey, thanks a lot for the update cavingjan! Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 August 2015, 09:15:36
Field Manual Mercs cover image fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 September 2015, 07:07:02
the Picaroon CSR-F100 is missing its image from TRO 3145 FWL

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6517/picaroon-csr-f100
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 September 2015, 20:48:54
Looks like the picture was moved. It's fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 02 September 2015, 09:13:13
Arctic Wolf II

As per this Errata: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3085-unabridged/30/
And this Errata: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/technical-readout-3085-supplemental/

The Arctic Wolf II Prime should be swapped with the Arctic Wolf II A configuration.  Both the BV and the AS Cards should be swapped.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 September 2015, 19:23:38
Both the Uziel UZL-3S (Jacob) and the UZL-3S (Jacob II) are missing the Wolf's Dragoons from their faction availability.  Even as a Unique machine, their respective affiliation is pretty concrete.  The Jacob is also listed as "Extinct" in its era, which seems... odd, despite the existence of the Jacob II.  There has to be a better way to indicate that they never existed simultaneously than that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 02 September 2015, 21:21:40
Most of the Jihad era Uniques do not have their secondary faction. I'm working on them (unfortunately slowly). I already have the Wolf and Blake mechs tagged.

(I'm also cleaning up and entries that are tagged as Extinct and Unique. They should just be Extinct. Dead is dead even if you were one of a kind.)

Thank you for bringing it up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 September 2015, 21:38:53
There's gotta be a better way to mark that.  I hate to suggest adding more work for you guys, but perhaps an "Extinct" date, as well as an introduction date?  The way the MUL reads now, the Jacob never... actually existed.  It just popped as "Extinct" one day.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 02 September 2015, 22:22:37
In the case of Jacob, it would not kick in until the next era. No worries there. A unit doesn't get extinct in its first era of its existence. (Now that it is written I'm sure we will find some exception out there.)

Using Butterbee as an example,
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/479/catapult-cplt-c1-jenny-butterbee

The Unique tag should be removed for the Jihad and Extinct should be added to all later eras. That is how they will be handled.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 September 2015, 22:41:23
Yep, that's what I was hoping for.  I just noticed it while writing an article for the Uziel, and had to bring it up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraith on 04 September 2015, 10:33:00
Hey all, hope this is going in the right place, and not sure if its errata or just something I don't understand yet.  Was in the process of putting together a Call to Arms force, and in picking the Naginata (any of the variants), there is no LRM#/#/# value in the special abilities.  Thanks for the answer when you get a chance, cheers!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 04 September 2015, 10:47:17
The Artemis makes it ineligible for LRM (or SRM in the case of Artemis with SRMs)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 05 September 2015, 11:15:19
The Lumberjack, specifically the MilitiaMech version (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7177/lumberjack-lm5m-militiamech) has some sort of error with the Alpha Strike card.  It won't display, and the direct link doesn't work.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 September 2015, 12:42:28
Looks like the only stats it has are the size. It shouldn't be trying to display a card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 September 2015, 12:44:43
The Lumberjack, specifically the MilitiaMech version (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7177/lumberjack-lm5m-militiamech) has some sort of error with the Alpha Strike card.  It won't display, and the direct link doesn't work.
Same here:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7175/uni-atae-70t-cargomech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7176/jabberwocky-jaw-67-militiamech

Something with those three unit numbers? (7175, 7176, and 7177)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 September 2015, 12:47:12
I don't think any AS stats were generated for Vehicle Annex except the ones that were found in Operation Klondike. I'll see if we can get some generated and we'll get them posted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Eugee on 05 September 2015, 17:36:46
So I love the MUL, it's been very handy as a returning Battletech player getting into Alpha Strike!

Would it be possible to tweak/expand the search and results though?  When I'm trying to build a new force right now (I'm really new) the MUL is great for providing unit cards and filtering sources and such, but doesn't really help me narrow down unit choices.

So I wanted to build an Assault Lance, and I need 3 mechs of SZ 3+, all with at least 5 Armor, plus one Juggernaught or 2 Snipers.

All I can narrow down is the SZ (80-100 tons) and the role.  Using the 3050U as the only source, that kicks back 39 Juggernauts from 80-100 tons.  But I have no idea how much armor they have.  I can add each one to a force and then see a list of them that shows [A-S] S/M/L (OV), but that's tedious as heck, plus I still won't know their TMM, MV, or Special Abilities.  I'll have to open each unit individually just to see those stats on their card.

Frankly it makes the idea of building a force very off-putting.

Two changes I'd love to see to the MUL:  First would be to expand what you can filter by with Alpha Strike.  At the very least, TMM would be nice, but the more options the better.  Second, I really wish the results were more useful for picking units--meaning if they showed the stats that are listed when you add them to your force, including TMM/MV and Specials.

Even if we couldn't get the narrower filters, just having results that included those stats would make it a lot less daunting to pick out units for a force.  :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 September 2015, 18:52:17
And I just noticed this, the PV numbers are not showing on the faction/era view. The column is there but it is not being populated. Regular search results populate that column properly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 September 2015, 22:45:49
Quick question about Royals and their kin: would it be possible to give them a "reintroduction" date to go along with the original date they were introduced? It would be pretty handy for fluffy era play.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ConstableBrew on 06 September 2015, 04:59:25
~~I would LOVE to have the ability to search for special abilities of each mech. I have been trying to build a command lance where each member uses C3I or maybe C3M/C3S. To do this with MUL, I have to filter down to the list of mechs that seem to fit the role I want and then open every single one and check their specials.~~

*EDIT: Thanks Cavingjan and Moonsword.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 September 2015, 06:57:59
Use the Alpha Strike ability to find a lot of stuff. (C3, C3i, ECM, PRB, etc.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Moonsword on 06 September 2015, 07:03:33
Specifically, go to Units from the nav menu, click the Alpha Strike box, and you'll see an AS Abilities text field as in the screenshot below.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 06 September 2015, 08:56:38
The STL ability should be added to the assassin ASN-99 Alpha Strike card
The mech uses stealth armor according to RS3050U Inner Sphere.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/130/assassin-asn-99


Xotl: Corrected, PV increased to 24.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 September 2015, 15:21:39
I believe some of the "Salamandar Battle Armor" PVs somehow got played with (I have previously printed values that no longer match the MUL, but after inspecting the ASC errata, there should not have been a change).

[Anti-Infantry]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2787/salamander-battle-armor-anti-infantry
10 PV for all 3 "CAR#" values (4, 5, 6)*

[Standard]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2789/salamander-battle-armor-standard
11 PV for all 3 "CAR#" values (4, 5, 6) 

[Laser]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2788/salamander-battle-armor-laser
10 PV for "CAR4" and "CAR5" cards, [and CAR6]
11 PV for "CAR6"; this card should also have a Short Range Damage value of 3. **



* = [Anti-Infantry] PV calculation (all 3 CAR#s)
. OFV = 4
. . (3+ 0.5*2 + 0) = 4
. DFV = MF + DSAF + DIR = 9.75
. . MF = 1.25
. . . 6"/8" = 0.75 + 0.5 (jump)
. . DSAF = 0.5
. . . 0.5 ~ Fire Resistant "FR" special
. . DIR = 8.0
. . . [(1*2) + (2*2)] * {1 + [1 + 1 (TMM) + 1 (Jump)]/10}
. . . . (6) * (1.3) = 7.8 ~ round to nearest half, or 8

Subtotal = OFV + DFV
. 4 + 9.75 = 13.75

Multiply subtotal by 0.75 (moves less than 10", doesn't deal at least 1 point of damage at Medium)
. 10.3125, round normal (down)

Total PV = 10



** = [Laser] CAR6 value calculation
. Damage = 0.52 @ Short Range
. Troop Factor = 4.5
. . Damage x Troop Factor = 2.34 ~ 3 damage @ Short Range

OFV = 5
. (3 + 0.5*2 + 0) + 1 HT
DFV = MF + DSAF + DIR = 9.75
. MF = 1.25
. . 6"/8" = 0.75 + 0.5 (jump)
. DSAF = 0.5
. . 0.5 ~ Fire Resistant "FR" special
. DIR = 8.0
. . [(1*2) + (2*2)] * {1 + [1 + 1 (TMM) + 1 (Jump)]/10}
. . . (6) * (1.3) = 7.8 ~ round to nearest half, or 8

Subtotal PV = OFV + DFV = 14.75
. 5 + 9.75

Multiply subtotal by 0.75 (moves less than 10", doesn't deal at least 1 point of damage at Medium)
. 11.0625, round normal (down)

Total PV = 11

EDIT: corrected by having values pointed out.  Thank you Pa Weasley!
[/size]
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 08 September 2015, 18:08:53
Recently found this errata that has not made it into the MUL.  The Cavalry (Infantry) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/503/cavalry-attack-helicopter-infantry) needs to be corrected and the Cavalry (BA) needs an entry.

Cavalry (Infantry), p. 21
duplicate the sheet, then modify the two:
  • remove 1 ton of infantry, increase MG ammo to 200
  • rename (BA) variant, remove 1 MG
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 08 September 2015, 20:08:29
[Snip]
With the errata to p.138
Quote
Page 138, Determine Unit's Offensive Value
Count all minimum damage values (0*) as 0.
Change to:
For a minimum damage value (0*) at Short or Long range, add 0.5. For a minimum damage value at Medium Range, add 1.
Damage amounts of 0* count as doing damage. Per ASC p. 141, units like all variants of the Salamander BA, that move 6" and can deliver damage at medium range do not need to have their final point values modified. There's no requirement that the unit can deliver a minimum of 1 damage, just that it delivers damage.  A recent update to battle armor listings in the MUL (you'll notice that there are BVs for 4, 5, and 6 man squads) caught these discrepancies and updated them. 

Quote
** = [Laser] CAR6 value calculation
. Damage = 0.52 @ Short Range
. Troop Factor = 4.5
. . Damage x Troop Factor = 2.34 ~ 3 damage @ Short Range
The Salamander (Laser) BA are equipped with a flamer, and ER micro laser, and a SRM 1 (OS) which do 0.2, 0.2, and 0.02 damage respectively for a total of 0.42. Times the troop factor for CAR6 (4.5) the raw damage value is 1.89 which rounds to 2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 September 2015, 22:22:49
With the errata to p.138:
Damage amounts of 0* count as doing damage. Per ASC p. 141, units like all variants of the Salamander BA, that move 6" and can deliver damage at medium range do not need to have their final point values modified. There's no requirement that the unit can deliver a minimum of 1 damage, just that it delivers damage.  A recent update to battle armor listings in the MUL (you'll notice that there are BVs for 4, 5, and 6 man squads) caught these discrepancies and updated them. 
...

I have already made that edit to my copy of the ASC.  The way I had interpreted it, however, was that the "0.5" remains throughout all three range bands, and that the "1" for Medium Range was supposed to just be short-hand for "0.5 + 0.5" (since Medium range is added twice when summing for OFV).  Have I assumed wrong?

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 September 2015, 22:30:23
...
The Salamander (Laser) BA are equipped with a flamer, and ER micro laser, and a SRM 1 (OS) which do 0.2, 0.2, and 0.02 damage respectively for a total of 0.42. Times the troop factor for CAR6 (4.5) the raw damage value is 1.89 which rounds to 2.

You... are correct.  That's what I get for using old spreadsheets.  I will edit my previous post. (sorry for the headache)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 09 September 2015, 00:25:23
I have already made that edit to my copy of the ASC.  The way I had interpreted it, however, was that the "0.5" remains throughout all three range bands, and that the "1" for Medium Range was supposed to just be short-hand for "0.5 + 0.5" (since Medium range is added twice when summing for OFV).  Have I assumed wrong?
Actually, that part you assumed completely correctly. *I* however, made an error and have gone and recalculated the PV of all BA with a medium range damage value of 0*. I've recalcualted the PV of all affected units and will have them all entered ASAP.

*EDIT* Battle armor units with a medium range damage of 0* previously had an incorrect PV. All  affected units have been corrected. Cards should update in the next 24 hours.

However, if a unit has a damage value of 0* at a particular range it counts as being able to do damage at that range for the purposes of any final PV modification based on a units speed and maximum range. In other words, none of the Salamander BA are subject to any final PV modifications noted in Step 3 on ASC p. 141.

You... are correct.  That's what I get for using old spreadsheets.  I will edit my previous post. (sorry for the headache)
If that's from one of my old sheets, I sincerely apologize.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 09 September 2015, 10:37:46
The weapon listing for the [Laser] variant of the Salamander you gave is the correct listing (verified when I opened up my 3058 pdf).  The only excuse I have is, beside writing the wrong values down, that I included the Anti-Personnel bonus (since the box is unchecked, this error is mine).

I will respect that "might do damage" is a qualifier to negate the PV reduction as you outlined. [I'm not happy about it, but that's an opinion ;)  ]  Something more clear and definitive should be added to page 141 so someone else doesn't follow my mistake.

And speaking of my mistake, in undoing the *0.75 for all my calcs, I get the following:
.  Salamander BA [Standard]       15 PVOFV = 5 (2 Short, 0.5*2 Medium, 0 Long, 2 HT),  DFV = 9.75 (8 DIR, 1.25 MF, 0.5 DSAF)
.  Salamander BA [Anti-Infantry] 14 PVOFV = 4 (3 Short, 0.5*2 Medium, 0 Long),  DFV = 9.75 (8 DIR, 1.25 MF, 0.5 DSAF)
.  Salamander BA [Laser]             14 PVOFV = 4 (2 Short, 0.5*2 Medium, 0 Long, 1 HT), DFV = 9.75 (8 DIR, 1.25 MF, 0.5 DSAF)

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Andy Mitchell on 17 September 2015, 12:07:16
If you add multiple identical units, e.g. in the alpha strike force builder they are often reduced back down to a single unit of each type. Some ways to cause this after adding duplicate units:

* Press F5 (refresh page) in the alpha strike force builder
* Navigate from the AS Builder to another page on the master unit list site, then back to the AS builder.

Which means you can't make use of the awesome full paramatised search capability after entering the AS builder if you have any duplicates in your force.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 17 September 2015, 15:05:03
Since it was asked elsewhere, I'll ask it here, any idea when the new artwork for the unseens will be used on the MUL and AS cards? Is that something where we need to wait for the artwork to appear in a published product or is the preview artwork good enough?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 September 2015, 15:28:40
Since it was asked elsewhere, I'll ask it here, any idea when the new artwork for the unseens will be used on the MUL and AS cards? Is that something where we need to wait for the artwork to appear in a published product or is the preview artwork good enough?

When its published, or TPTB tell us to, whichever is sooner.  I don't recall an instance of the second happening yet though, so unless something surprising happens, when it's published.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 22 September 2015, 17:17:01
Could I put in a feature request?  I think it'd be fantastic to be able to choose the number of cards the AS Force Builder prints per sheet.  8 per sheet in two columns is easy enough to organize for IS units, but Clan, C*/WOB, Marian, and other odd balls get left out in the ease of access.  Being able to choose whether 3, 4, or 5 cards printed per column would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 23 September 2015, 07:37:24
Could I put in a feature request?  I think it'd be fantastic to be able to choose the number of cards the AS Force Builder prints per sheet.  8 per sheet in two columns is easy enough to organize for IS units, but Clan, C*/WOB, Marian, and other odd balls get left out in the ease of access.  Being able to choose whether 3, 4, or 5 cards printed per column would be fantastic.
The same goes for Battle Armor formations when using the Force Builder. Unless I missed it, all the BA formations default to 4-man squads.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 25 September 2015, 02:08:48
I've done a search on posts in this forum, and can't see this reported previously, so here goes:

The Fa Shih TAG variant doesn't have the "LTAG" special ability. Each suit in the squad carries a Light TAG, so I'd expect it to be present.

Link to MUL here: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1018/fa-shih-battle-armor-tag

Recommended fix - add LTAG to this suit.

Cheers, and thanks for the hard work,

W. O0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 25 September 2015, 08:14:10
Sorry about that. All squad sizes have been corrected. CAR4 should update in the next 24 hours.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 30 September 2015, 02:10:24
Thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And thanks!

Nckestrel just pointed out that I can search on AS role via the Basic Filters. So if I need a Capellan Brawler available during the Jihad, it's but a moment's work.

This is, indeed, wonderful.

So thanks to all the people who munge the data and shepherd the bytes.

Thanks!

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 October 2015, 20:14:55
The Vindicator VND-1X is missing special ability IF* from its Alpha Strike card. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3425/vindicator-vnd-1x

The VND-1R does have it, as do other Vindicator variants that mount an LRM-5.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pat Payne on 06 October 2015, 12:18:01
When its published, or TPTB tell us to, whichever is sooner.  I don't recall an instance of the second happening yet though, so unless something surprising happens, when it's published.

OTOH, wasn't the lineart for the Marauder and Whammie "published" in the recent Alpha Strike Quick Start Rules? Or does it have to be in an actual print publication for it to count as published?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 October 2015, 13:13:35
Reporting a bug: AlphaStrike cards for Protomechs are not listing "Skill" and their values on the individual Unit Cards

These values still appear on the list generated when using the Force Builder tool and cost an appropriate amount of PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 13 October 2015, 23:55:24
Reporting a bug: Rommel (Howitzer) and the Howitzer prototype AlphaStrike cards are missing the ARTLTC-1 in their respective TUR specials.  (The card does list the special, they're just not listed in the turret)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4934/rommel-tank-howitzer
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4933/rommel-tank-howitzer-prototype


Xotl: fixed, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pfarland on 19 October 2015, 15:58:23
I'm working on a (personal) project involving the MUL and noticed this.

Possible availability bug.  The Cephalus Omni has some that seem 'off'.
Cephalus <Base>; Cephalus Prime; Cephalus A - Availability in Jihad AND Early Republic

Cephalus B; Cephalus C; Cephalus D; Cephalus E; Cephalus U - Available ONLY in Jihad Era

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a side note, though I'm not very far through the MUL, I've noticed that nothing seems to have availabilities in the Age of War, Star League, Early Succession Wars, and Late Republic Eras.  (I read that most won't have a Dark Ages availability).  Is this something that's being worked on or just not available yet?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 19 October 2015, 16:09:53
The Cephalus does not have any availability data for Republic Era. It is To Be Announced.

The other areas are being worked upon but they take time. The volume of units and in the early eras, tracking down information takes a lot of time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pfarland on 19 October 2015, 16:22:10
The Cephalus does not have any availability data for Republic Era. It is To Be Announced.

The other areas are being worked upon but they take time. The volume of units and in the early eras, tracking down information takes a lot of time.

Gotcha, and yeah I COMPLETELY understand about the time factor.  There is just about a metric ton of sourcebooks to go through, what's been done so far is already amazing!

On that note though, I noticed something else:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3979/commando-com-7x

This Commando variant doesn't seem to have any TRO or RS link or product info and it's BV and PV are listed as N/A.  It does have availability info though. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 19 October 2015, 17:18:21
That is not uncommon.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 19 October 2015, 18:53:51
This might be more of a question than an errata at this point. Didn't really know whereas to ask, but since I caught this while doing BV checks, I figured I'd ask here.

The Rifleman IIC 6 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2715/rifleman-iic-6) is listed as having a BV of 2,251, which matches the unit pre-loaded in SSW.

My calculation has the BV at 2,220, which matches the unit pre-loaded in MML.

The difference appears to be due to the fact that SSW version has an ER Small Laser mounted in the head. The unit as it appears in Record Sheets: 3085 Unabridged — Project Phoenix does not have this ER Small Laser, but it is half a ton underweight. I could not find errata anywhere which stated the RS in the official product is incorrect. So, do you know if the RS is correct, at which point the MUL is wrong?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 23 October 2015, 13:41:24
The BV for the Jenner JR10-X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1686/jenner-jr10-x) is listed incorrectly as 1,269. I've actually no idea where this number comes from. The number in SSW matches the record sheet with 1,452. This number is also incorrect, however. My calculations (below) show the BV as 1,419, which also matches that in MML.

Code: [Select]
==================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                 139 x 2.5 x 1                  347.500             
  Internal Structure (Composite w/ XL Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 0.5    (+)     21.750  =   369.250
  Gyro (Compact):                              35 x 0.5                (+)     17.500  =   386.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Angel ECM Suite                                                 (+)    100.000  =   486.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                   +4 (w/ Null-Signature)  (*)       1.60  =   778.800
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                             778.800

==================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Medium Laser                                                            46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   138.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   184.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   230.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   276.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                 (+)     35.000  =   311.000
  Speed Factor:                                11 (Run) + 4 (Jump)     (*)      2.300  =   715.300
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                             715.300

==================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                    778.800             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                             (+)    715.300  = 1,494.100
  Cockpit (Torso-Mounted):                                             (*)       0.95  = 1,419.395
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                               1,419
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 23 October 2015, 14:23:10
The 1,269 value is correct. Per this (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48436.msg1127538#msg1127538) TacOps errata, the heat from the Null-Signature System is now factored into BV calculations. Same goes for the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield and the Void-Signature System. All parts of your calculations were correct except that due to the above errata, three of the six medium lasers have their BVs halved due to the cumulative heat exceeding the 'Mechs calculated heat efficiency.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 October 2015, 14:47:41
OTOH, wasn't the lineart for the Marauder and Whammie "published" in the recent Alpha Strike Quick Start Rules? Or does it have to be in an actual print publication for it to count as published?

And Marauders and Warhammers are updated....
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ConstableBrew on 23 October 2015, 17:54:03
Two changes I'd love to see to the MUL:  First would be to expand what you can filter by with Alpha Strike.  At the very least, TMM would be nice, but the more options the better.  Second, I really wish the results were more useful for picking units--meaning if they showed the stats that are listed when you add them to your force, including TMM/MV and Specials.

Even if we couldn't get the narrower filters, just having results that included those stats would make it a lot less daunting to pick out units for a force.  :)

I'm running into similar issues now. I'd like to add that it would also be helpful to see each unit's full set of specials. Comparing units and weighing options comes with so much overhead when I have to open every single unit.

I also have been cross referencing every unit in sarna.net, since there I can find helpful writeups about each unit's history and usage in canon. If there were a simple url link to the sarna page, that would speed up my process significantly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 27 October 2015, 14:57:02
The 1,269 value is correct. Per this (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48436.msg1127538#msg1127538) TacOps errata, the heat from the Null-Signature System is now factored into BV calculations. Same goes for the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield and the Void-Signature System. All parts of your calculations were correct except that due to the above errata, three of the six medium lasers have their BVs halved due to the cumulative heat exceeding the 'Mechs calculated heat efficiency.

Thanks. I should've known this since I was the cause (or at least asked the question that sparked the change) of the heat now being factored into the BV!! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 27 October 2015, 15:02:37
The BV for the Goliath GOL-5W is listed incorrectly as 2,030. My calculations, along with those of MML and SSW, all come to 2,006. So I'm not sure where the calculation may be off (perhaps not factoring heat for Stealth??). Here is my breakdown:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Stealth):                                263 x 2.5 x 1             657.500             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    195.000  =   852.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                80 x 0.5           (+)     40.000  =   892.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Guardian ECM Suite                                            (+)     61.000  =   953.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +2 (w/ Stealth)    (*)       1.40  = 1,334.900
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,334.900

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Medium Laser                                                          46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                  (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Medium Laser                                                  (+)     23.000  =   115.000
       Plasma Rifle                                                  (+)    210.000  =   325.000
       Plasma Rifle                                                  (+)    210.000  =   535.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     26.000  =   561.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     26.000  =   587.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     26.000  =   613.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     80.000  =   693.000
  Speed Factor:                                   6 (Run) + 0 (Jump) (*)      1.120  =   776.160
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                           776.160

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                1,334.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)    776.160  = 2,111.060
  Cockpit (Small):                                                   (*)       0.95  = 2,005.507
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,006
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 29 October 2015, 11:59:11
The BV for the Vindicator VND-3LD (Dao) is listed incorrectly as 1,657. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,639. SSW calculates it as 1,814, which also matches the record sheet. So I'm not sure where the calculation may be off. Here is my breakdown I have:

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                             153 x 2.5 x 1             382.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Compact Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 1   (+)    112.500  =   495.000
  Gyro (Compact):                                    45 x 0.5           (+)     22.500  =   517.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                        (+)     45.000  =   562.500
  Explosive Ammunition:                              1 Critical Space   (-)     15.000  =   547.500
  Explosive Equipment:                               3 Critical Spaces  (-)      3.000  =   544.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                         +3                 (*)       1.30  =   707.850
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              707.850

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER PPC                                                                  515.000             
       Mech Taser                                                       (+)     50.000  =   565.000
       Mech Taser (Ammo 5)                                              (+)      5.000  =   570.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     54.000  =   624.000
  Speed Factor:                                      8 (Run) + 2 (Jump) (*)      1.630  = 1,017.120
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            1,017.120

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     707.850             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)  1,017.120  = 1,724.970
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  = 1,638.722
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                1,639
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 29 October 2015, 15:06:38
I noticed the Ti Ts'ang TSG-9H (Jason), as detailed in Dossiers: Jason Zaklan (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2747) is not listed in the MUL. Is this an omission or is this intentional for some reason?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 29 October 2015, 15:31:19
Hmm. I thought i had them all up there. This would be an omission. I'll see about adding them this week.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 29 October 2015, 21:53:19
The BV for the Goliath GOL-5W is listed incorrectly as 2,030. My calculations, along with those of MML and SSW, all come to 2,006.
You're spot on. Updated.

The BV for the Vindicator VND-3LD (Dao) is listed incorrectly as 1,657. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,639.
Once again spot on. Updated.

Thank you much mordel.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 October 2015, 18:13:08
The BV for the Rifleman RFL-9T (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2707/rifleman-rfl-9t) is listed incorrectly as 1,416. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,503. SSW also calculates it as 1,416. Part of the difference appears to be due to heat from Stealth armor, but the totals for weapon BV don't even come close to adding up right. So probably multiple things going on with SSW. Here is the breakdown I have:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Stealth):                                152 x 2.5 x 1            380.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    148.500  =   528.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                60 x 0.5          (+)     30.000  =   558.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Guardian ECM Suite                                           (+)     61.000  =   619.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +2 (w/ Stealth)   (*)       1.40  =   867.300
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          867.300

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      77.500             
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     38.750  =   116.250
       Light AC/5                                                   (+)     77.500  =   193.750
       Light AC/5                                                   (+)     77.500  =   271.250
       Light AC/5 (Ammo 20)                                         (+)      8.000  =   279.250
       Light AC/5 (Ammo 20)                                         (+)      8.000  =   287.250
       Light PPC                                                    (+)    110.000  =   397.250
       Light PPC                                                    (+)    110.000  =   507.250
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     60.000  =   567.250
  Speed Factor:                                   6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)(*)      1.120  =   635.320
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          635.320

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 867.300             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)    635.320  = 1,502.620
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,503
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 30 October 2015, 22:37:26
The BV for the Rifleman RFL-9T (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2707/rifleman-rfl-9t) is listed incorrectly as 1,416. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,503.
You're spot on. Updated. Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 31 October 2015, 08:20:01
I'm not sure what the picture is, but it doesn't seem to be the Clan Interface Armor (which shares an image with the Machina Domini version of the Interface Armor).

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7387/clan-interface-armor-standard

Fix: Change the picture :) What is that anyway, the Space Station from HB:CapCon or something?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 31 October 2015, 14:50:18
It appears that out default image was changed to the space station. It doesn't really matter as I just added the images. The AS cards should regenerate tonight with the images.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 06 November 2015, 03:31:16
The FLE-4 is missing Wolf's Dragoons faction availability. It was introduced (in canon sources, anyway) in the WD sourcebook, is noted as being manufactured for them under contract, and the FLE-15 is available to the Dragoons.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gauthic on 06 November 2015, 10:34:09
Two minor requests:

Datatable sorting
It'd  be nice to be able to sort by columns on the Alpha Strike Force Builder search results because sometimes the results list can be a bit long and they're not usually in alphabetical order. I'd like to see at least the Name, Intro (Era) and PV columns being sortable.

Since it appears that the JQuery DataTables class is being used it should be a trivial (one or two lines of Javascript) feature addition :)

(http://jdgwf.com/bt/screenshots/mul-feature-request-sorting.png)

Alpha Strike Card Point Cost
I've noticed that the pricing on the Alpha Strike cards preview images doesn't change with the skill level, but the skill rating on the card does. Could this be fixed? It's probably a non-issue since the PDF creator does the calculations correctly, though and these images are for preview for the most part.

(http://jdgwf.com/bt/screenshots/mul-awesome-skill4.png)
(http://jdgwf.com/bt/screenshots/mul-awesome-skill3.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 November 2015, 14:24:47
The FLE-4 is missing Wolf's Dragoons faction availability. It was introduced (in canon sources, anyway) in the WD sourcebook, is noted as being manufactured for them under contract, and the FLE-15 is available to the Dragoons.

It looks like the new Fleas made for the dragoons were not the -4 but the -15 model. It looks like they should probably have access but only for the LosTech era. Two FLE-4 mechs doesn't justify access to it in the post 4SW eras.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jairb on 12 November 2015, 01:43:56
Some Alpha Strike Force Builder requests:
1.  As unit skill values are changed, it would be nice to have an average computed and the Point Value Skill Rating for the force displayed (i.e, Regular, Veteran, Elite, etc.).  This would allow folks creating forces based on the new Combat Manual books to know they're in compliance for the unit they're modeling.

2.  Allow reordering of units after they've been added to the list to facilitate grouping into Formations to be printed together.  For example, if a choice is changed and the 3rd unit added to the force is deleted and a replacement added, the new unit appears at the bottom of the list and an entire force of 12 must be rebuilt in order to get the Lances to print together.

3.  Once a Formation has skills assigned and units grouped into Lances (or Stars or Level IIs), it would be nice to be able to assign SCAs and SPAs and perhaps have cards generated with those reference descriptions.  Alternatively, SCA and SPA descriptions could appear on the Unit List summary page if formatting them on cards is undesirable for some reason.

4.  Save / Load ability to avoid regenerating Formations from scratch every time.  Perhaps a simple XML file with Unit IDs and Skill ratings would do.  Everything else could be requeried or recomputed from the database upon Load.

Thanks for all the truly EXCELLENT work on this to date.  It's an amazing resource.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 12:35:36
I think the BV for the Lich UABM-2R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7385/lich-uabm-2r) is incorrect. It's difficult to tell because the BV calculations for this unit in MML and SSW are all over the place and don't match what is listed in the MUL nor what my calculations come out to. The MUL lists the BV as 1,719. My calculation yields 1,712. I know the calculation is tricky because of how the armor multiplier is applied per location. Here's my calculation:

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 272 x 2.5 x 1 (w/ HarJel)         711.750             
  Internal Structure (Endo-Composite w/ XL Engine): 146 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5        (+)    109.500  =   821.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                  90 x 0.5                   (+)     45.000  =   866.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Angel ECM Suite                                                         (+)    100.000  =   966.250
  Explosive Equipment:                              3 Critical Spaces          (-)      3.000  =   963.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +2                         (*)       1.20  = 1,155.900
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                   1,155.900

==========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       ER Large Laser (C)                                                             198.400             
       ER Large Laser (C)                                                      (+)    198.400  =   396.800
       Light Gauss Rifle                                                       (+)     63.600  =   460.400
       Light Gauss Rifle                                                       (+)     63.600  =   524.000
       Light Gauss Rifle (Ammo 16)                                             (+)     16.000  =   540.000
       Light Gauss Rifle (Ammo 16)                                             (+)     16.000  =   556.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                         (+)     90.000  =   646.000
  Speed Factor:                                     5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)         (*)      1.000  =   646.000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                     646.000

==========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,155.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                     (+)    646.000  = 1,801.900
  Cockpit (Drone):                                                             (*)       0.95  = 1,711.805
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                       1,712
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 13:33:06
The BV for the Raptor II RPT-2X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2657/raptor-ii-rpt-2x) is incorrectly listed as 936. My calculations along with those of MML generate a BV of 896. I believe the discrepancy could be related to the recent errata concerning the Void-Signature System and its heat impact towards BV. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  118 x 2.5 x 1                  295.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     50.250  =   345.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              40 x 0.5                (+)     20.000  =   365.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Guardian ECM Suite                                               (+)     61.000  =   426.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                         2 Critical Spaces       (-)     30.000  =   396.250
  Explosive Equipment:                          3 Critical Spaces       (-)      3.000  =   393.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   550.550
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              550.550

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Mech Taser                                                               20.000             
       Mech Taser (Ammo 5)                                              (+)      5.000  =    25.000
       Mech Taser (Ammo 5)                                              (+)      5.000  =    30.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                                 (+)     56.000  =    86.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                                 (+)     56.000  =   142.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     40.000  =   182.000
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  =   393.120
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              393.120

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     550.550             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    393.120  =   943.670
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  =   896.487
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                  896
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 13:51:50
The BV for the Raptor II RPT-2X1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2658/raptor-ii-rpt-2x1) is incorrectly listed as 1471. My calculations along with those of MML generate a BV of 1274. I believe the discrepancy could be related to the recent errata concerning the Void-Signature System and its heat impact towards BV. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  118 x 2.5 x 1                  295.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     50.250  =   345.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              40 x 0.5                (+)     20.000  =   365.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Bloodhound Active Probe                                          (+)     25.000  =   390.250
       Guardian ECM Suite                                               (+)     61.000  =   451.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                         1 Critical Space        (-)     15.000  =   436.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   610.750
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              610.750

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER Large Laser                                                          163.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                                  (+)     31.000  =   194.000
       ER Small Laser (R)                                               (+)      4.250  =   198.250
       Streak SRM 6                                                     (+)     89.000  =   287.250
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                           (+)     11.000  =   298.250
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     40.000  =   338.250
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  =   730.620
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              730.620

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     610.750             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    730.620  = 1,341.370
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  = 1,274.302
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                1,274
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 13 November 2015, 16:36:46
I think the BV for the Lich UABM-2R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7385/lich-uabm-2r) is incorrect. It's difficult to tell because the BV calculations for this unit in MML and SSW are all over the place and don't match what is listed in the MUL nor what my calculations come out to. The MUL lists the BV as 1,719. My calculation yields 1,712. I know the calculation is tricky because of how the armor multiplier is applied per location. Here's my calculation:
The 1,719 is correct. You applied the 0.8 BV modifier to the Light Gauss Rifle's ammo which p.381 of TacOps notes not to do.

I suspect your Raptor II calculations are correct and I mis-clicked with I updated affect BVs with the Void Sig errata. I'll be able to verify a bit later tonight.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 19:14:52
The 1,719 is correct. You applied the 0.8 BV modifier to the Light Gauss Rifle's ammo which p.381 of TacOps notes not to do.

You are correct (of course). Sorry about that. I usually manage to figure out what's wrong with my calculation or the MUL based on what I see in MML and/or SSW. But because these were way off this time, I was stumped. The more you know...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 14 November 2015, 21:38:17
mordel - Both of your Raptor II calculations check out and both entries have been updated. Thanks for catching those.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 November 2015, 11:06:00
Another Raptor BV issue, this time with the Raptor II RPT-3X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2659/raptor-ii-rpt-3x). This one does not appear to be related to  the Void-Signature System though as my calculations; as well as those from MML, come out to 1304. The BV listed in the MUL is 1301. SSW is way off, so not 100% sure where the discrepancy is. Here is my BV breakdown.

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  127 x 2.5 x 1                  317.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     50.250  =   367.750
  Gyro (Standard):                              40 x 0.5                (+)     20.000  =   387.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Guardian ECM Suite                                               (+)     61.000  =   448.750
  Explosive Ammunition:                         2 Critical Spaces       (-)     30.000  =   418.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   586.250
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              586.250

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER Medium Laser                                                          62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                                  (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       Streak SRM 6                                                     (+)     89.000  =   213.000
       Streak SRM 6                                                     (+)     89.000  =   302.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                           (+)     11.000  =   313.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                           (+)     11.000  =   324.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     40.000  =   364.000
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  =   786.240
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              786.240

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     586.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    786.240  = 1,372.490
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  = 1,303.866
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                1,304
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 16 November 2015, 13:45:54
Also correct and the entry has been updated. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jairb on 18 November 2015, 03:14:48
It would be really nice to have a filter feature that resulted in a list of Units UNIQUE to a Faction in a given period.  Put another way for example, the option to select Capellan Confederation and exclude all other Faction affiliation.

That would really help new players quickly give a distinctive faction flavor to their builds.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 20 November 2015, 15:16:04
The D-M3D-3 Diomede (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/901/diomede-d-m3d-3-constructionmech)'s Alpha Strike card lists it as having basic fire control, while TRO 3085 page 111 has a note specifically saying the Diomede has advanced fire control. The Diomede-4 is also listed with BFC, though the TRO has no note clarifying this issue for that variant, and their record sheets don't say anything either way. Might have to ask whoever designed the thing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 20 November 2015, 17:59:56
The BV for the Stealth STH-5X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5130/stealth-sth-5x) is incorrectly listed as 2222. My calculations along with those of MML come to 2155. I believe the issue may be due to the recent errata regarding the Chameleon LPS and its impact on heat efficiency ratings. Below if my calculation:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                       143 x 2.5 x 1                 357.500             
  Internal Structure (Composite w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 0.5   (+)     28.125  =   385.625
  Gyro (Standard):                             45 x 0.5               (+)     22.500  =   408.125
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Active Probe (C)                                               (+)     12.000  =   420.125
       ECM Suite (C)                                                  (+)     61.000  =   481.125
  Explosive Ammunition:                        1 Critical Space       (-)     15.000  =   466.125
  Defensive Movement Factor:                   +4 (w/ Chameleon LPS)  (*)       1.60  =   745.800
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            745.800

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       ER Flamer                                                               8.000             
       ER Flamer                                                      (+)      8.000  =    16.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                            (+)    108.000  =   124.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                            (+)    108.000  =   232.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                            (+)    108.000  =   340.000
       Streak SRM 6 (C)                                               (+)    118.000  =   458.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15) (C)                                     (+)     15.000  =   473.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     45.000  =   518.000
  Speed Factor:                                14 (Run) + 4 (Jump)    (*)      2.720  = 1,408.960
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,408.960

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   745.800             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,408.960  = 2,154.760
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,155
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 20 November 2015, 19:50:03
Correct, entry updated. Thank you again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Descronan on 25 November 2015, 13:44:08
I noticed that all units with a single AC 5 do not have the AC ability listed (AC0/1/1). This appears to be an error in rounding for the AC ability as the Companion states "As a general rule, the attack values for damage-delivering special unit abilities such as AC#/#/#, LRM#/#/#, and SRM#/# are computed by adding together the specific damage values for all of the appropriate weapons involved, then rounding the result normally."

I have found no relevant errata to explain this.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3514/warrior-attack-helicopter-h-7a

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6664/scapha-hovertank-f

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3395/vedette-medium-tank-standard

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2898/shadow-hawk-shd-1r

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2899/shadow-hawk-shd-2d
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 November 2015, 14:11:07
A unit must have at least 10 damage in AC (or SRM or LRM) to qualify.  (Or 1 if using the Alpha Strike Companion tables that are already divided by 10).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Descronan on 25 November 2015, 18:03:51
Then is this an errata? Because this is not what the Companion states. According to the Companion P116, the damage should be rounded normally.

Special Unit Ability Damage Values
As a general rule, the attack values for damage-delivering
special unit abilities such as AC#/#/#, LRM#/#/#, and SRM#/# are
computed by adding together the specific damage values for all
of the appropriate weapons involved, then rounding the result
normally.
This is similar to how a unit’s normal attack values
are computed, except that these values include only those for
the weapons specified by the ability, and are not subject to
heat modification. The special unit ability that applies for any
given weapon system is noted in its entry on the appropriate
conversion tables.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 25 November 2015, 18:40:52
The conversion rules for AC on pg 120 specifically states that it must deliver at least 1 point of damage at medium range after heat reduction to qualify.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 25 November 2015, 18:48:12
ASC p. 120 Autocannons (AC#/#/#)
Quote
A unit receives this special if it carries any number of light or standard autocannons that can deliver 1 or more points
of damage at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage value rounding.

ASC p.126 Long-Range Missiles (LRM#/#/#)
Quote
A unit receives this special if it carries any number of standard or enhanced LRM and/or MML launchers that, when
combined, are capable of delivering 1 or more points of damage at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage value rounding.

ASC p. 131 Short-Range Missiles (SRM#/#)
Quote
A unit receives this special if it carries any number of standard SRM and/or MML launchers that, when combined, are capable of delivering 1 or more points of damage at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage value rounding.

So if there isn't at least one point of damage for a particular special ability at medium range prior to final rounding, the unit doesn't qualify for that particular type of special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Lboydmsw on 25 November 2015, 22:55:51
Both variants of the scarabus have TSM which only works when a mech hits a heat scale of 1 or more but neither scarabus has an OV value.  Neither is able to activate their TSM
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 25 November 2015, 23:17:25
Both variants of the scarabus have TSM which only works when a mech hits a heat scale of 1 or more but neither scarabus has an OV value.  Neither is able to activate their TSM

This is covered in the current AS errata, which allows them to activate it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hammer on 26 November 2015, 19:34:55
Not sure if this is the place to post this but:

The Chameleon TRC-4B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/546/chameleon-trc-4b) in the MUL shows the unit is available in the RS 3058 Uu-I but when I check the actually book that unit doesn't exist.

But there is a Chameleon CLN-4V which is missing from the MUL.  I'm wondering if these are different units or the same.  If they are the same which would be the correct designation.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 26 November 2015, 19:46:42
Chameleon designation was errata'd.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5933.msg173715#msg173715
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hammer on 26 November 2015, 23:16:48
Chameleon designation was errata'd.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5933.msg173715#msg173715
Thanks. Missed that one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 27 November 2015, 00:48:49
Hello

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3110/stuka-stu-k5

On the Aerospace fighter cards the Engine Hit critical is listed as "1/4" move.  The Critical hit as described in Alpha strike page 58 says...

Engine Hit (Aerospace Fighters, Conventional Fighters, and Fixed-Wing Support Vehicles):
The unit’s power system is damaged. For fighters and fixed-wing support vehicles, the first engine hit reduces the unit to half its Thrust rating (round down, to a minimum of 1 Thrust lost).

Is the 1/4 move is error and should be corrected to one half. 

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 November 2015, 18:48:15
Although I know it's still a "draft" era, the availabilities for the Skandi VTOL seem funky for the Early Republic time period.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 November 2015, 19:40:04
Although I know it's still a "draft" era, the availabilities for the Skandi VTOL seem funky for the Early Republic time period.

You are going to have to be more specific.
Note the intro date of 3099, and the Early Republic era ends in 3100.  It didn't spread to everyone that first year.
Or is there a specific faction that should or should not be listed?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 November 2015, 19:52:10
You are going to have to be more specific.
Note the intro date of 3099, and the Early Republic era ends in 3100.  It didn't spread to everyone that first year.
Or is there a specific faction that should or should not be listed?

Sorry, right. It was first produced by the Jade Falcons on Pandora (they're missing from the faction list), but I'd also be surprised if the Republic of the Sphere were to buy it from them. Then the Lyrans took control of the planet at some point, but I'm not sure when that happened.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 November 2015, 21:05:58
Yeah. It looks like its production got moved during development of 3145...checking to make sure I'm not missing anything else...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 29 November 2015, 06:49:09
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5610/battle-taxi-nl-43

This is listed as being 200 tons, but this is in fact the 100 ton Fighter from XTRO Phantoms. The rest of the data is correct (it shows up under Fighters in the MUL). However, the image is wrong as it should use the image of the NL-42 according to XTRO Phantoms.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 29 November 2015, 10:18:50
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5610/battle-taxi-nl-43

This is listed as being 200 tons, but this is in fact the 100 ton Fighter from XTRO Phantoms. The rest of the data is correct (it shows up under Fighters in the MUL). However, the image is wrong as it should use the image of the NL-42 according to XTRO Phantoms.

Tonnage fixed. Unless I'm missing some errata somewhere, that is the image out of the XTRO and directly from the record sheet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 29 November 2015, 11:45:15
Entry 2978, "Sniper House Dai Dai Chi Snipers."

Problem/solution: As above, this is listed (and on its card) as "House Dai Dai Chi." Per TR3085 (and other sources), should be "Dai Da Chi."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 29 November 2015, 13:21:12
Entry 2978, "Sniper House Dai Dai Chi Snipers."

Problem/solution: As above, this is listed (and on its card) as "House Dai Dai Chi." Per TR3085 (and other sources), should be "Dai Da Chi."

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 November 2015, 09:54:12
Sorry, right. It was first produced by the Jade Falcons on Pandora (they're missing from the faction list), but I'd also be surprised if the Republic of the Sphere were to buy it from them. Then the Lyrans took control of the planet at some point, but I'm not sure when that happened.

Yep, I missed the change.  Skadi is Clan Jade Falcon only for the Early Republic era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 04 December 2015, 10:07:33
according to the MUL the Grenadier II D configuration is available only to the RoTS and not to the FS.
However we have the following description from XTRO:Republic volume 3 page 16 "Having self-supporting artillery deployed by battle armor also added to the Capellans’ confusion
on Marlette."

According to TRO 3150 the defending unit that fought on this FS world was the 5th Crucis Lancers, a FS unit.
It seems to me this configuration should also be available to the FS.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 06 December 2015, 22:23:40
The Battle Value for the Wendigo C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6406/wendigo-c) appears to be incorrectly listed as 2,548. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 2,623. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Laser Reflective):                     182 x 2.5 x 1.5             682.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 83 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)     93.375  =   775.875
  Gyro (Standard):                              50 x 0.5             (+)     25.000  =   800.875
  Explosive Equipment:                          4 Critical Spaces    (-)      4.000  =   796.875
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                   (*)       1.40  = 1,115.625
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,115.625

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Small Laser                                                        15.500             
       Improved Heavy Large Laser                                    (+)    296.000  =   311.500
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   404.500
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   497.500
       Streak LRM 15                                                 (+)    259.000  =   756.500
       Streak LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                        (+)     32.000  =   788.500
       Streak LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                        (+)     32.000  =   820.500
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     50.000  =   870.500
  Speed Factor:                                 12 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.890  = 1,645.245
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,645.245

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                1,115.625             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,645.245  = 2,760.870
  Cockpit (Torso-Mounted):                                           (*)       0.95  = 2,622.827
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,623
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 07 December 2015, 21:30:00
The Battle Value for the Wendigo C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6406/wendigo-c) appears to be incorrectly listed as 2,548. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 2,623. The calculations are as follows:
Looks correct to me. Entry has been corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 09 December 2015, 20:23:38
Hi!

The MUL stat cards for Nephilim battle armour - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=nephilim - all show movement 4".

Other non-jumping BA, such as the Shedu, Se'irim, or (for the heretics) Grenadier, show their movement as being foot mode - eg. 6"f, 6"f, and 4"f respectively.

Suggested correction - update the Nephilim entries to show movement 4"f.

Cheers,

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 10 December 2015, 09:14:34
Nice catch, all Nephilim entries corrected. Thank you much.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 December 2015, 16:31:01
The Battle Value for the Quickdraw QKD-8X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2617/quickdraw-qkd-8x) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,580. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 1,612. Not quite sure where the discrepancy may lie. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Stealth):                                  232 x 2.5 x 1            580.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Fusion Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    148.500  =   728.500
  Gyro (Compact):                                   60 x 0.5          (+)     30.000  =   758.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Guardian ECM Suite                                             (+)     61.000  =   819.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3 (w/ Stealth)   (*)       1.50  = 1,229.250
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,229.250

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Medium Laser (R)                                                       23.000             
       Medium Laser (R)                                               (+)     23.000  =    46.000
       PPC (T)                                                        (+)    176.000  =   222.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     90.000  =   312.000
  Speed Factor:                                     9 (Run) + 0 (Jump)(*)      1.500  =   468.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            468.000

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 1,229.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    468.000  = 1,697.250
  Cockpit (Torso-Mounted):                                            (*)       0.95  = 1,612.388
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              1,612
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 December 2015, 16:59:54
The Battle Value for the Violator VT-U1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6503/violator-vt-u1) appears to be incorrectly listed as 926. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 928. Not quite sure where the discrepancy may lie. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 144 x 2.5 x 1            360.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Fusion Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    112.500  =   472.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                  45 x 0.5          (+)     22.500  =   495.000
  Armored Components:                                                                           
       Cockpit                                                        (+)      5.000  =   500.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3                (*)       1.30  =   650.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            650.000

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Claws                                                                   8.925             
       Mining Drill                                                   (+)      6.000  =    14.925
       MRM 10 (Ammo 24)                                               (+)      7.000  =    21.925
       MRM 10 (Ammo 24)                                               (+)      7.000  =    28.925
       MRM 10                                                         (+)     64.400  =    93.325
       MRM 10                                                         (+)     64.400  =   157.725
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     45.000  =   202.725
  Speed Factor:                                     8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)(*)      1.370  =   277.733
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            277.733

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   650.000             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    277.733  =   927.733
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                928
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 12 December 2015, 00:39:26
The Battle Value for the Tenshi TN-10-OA (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6422/tenshi-tn-10-oa) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,830. My calculations come out to 1,829 (a small difference). MML appears way off because they subtract 15 for some reason. Probably just some rounding error, my calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                           293 x 2.5 x 1                732.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo-Composite w/ Light Fusion Engine): 145 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    163.125  =   895.625
  Gyro (Compact):                                             95 x 0.5              (+)     47.500  =   943.125
  Explosive Equipment:                                        2 Critical Spaces     (-)      2.000  =   941.125
  Defensive Movement Factor:                                  +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,129.350
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                        1,129.350

===============================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                         
       Large VSP Laser                                                                     123.000             
       Large VSP Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  =   246.000
       Large VSP Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  =   369.000
       MRM 30 (Ammo 8)                                                              (+)     21.000  =   390.000
       MRM 30 (Ammo 8)                                                              (+)     21.000  =   411.000
       MRM 30                                                                       (+)    193.200  =   604.200
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                              (+)     95.000  =   699.200
  Speed Factor:                                               5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.000  =   699.200
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                          699.200

===============================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                               1,129.350             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          (+)    699.200  = 1,828.550
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                            1,829
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 14 December 2015, 19:54:46
The Battle Value for the Beowulf BEO-14 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/328/beowulf-beo-14) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,265. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,287. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                      152 x 2.5 x 1              380.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     56.250  =   436.250
  Gyro (Standard):                            45 x 0.5            (+)     22.500  =   458.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                       
       Beagle Active Probe                                        (+)     10.000  =   468.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +4                  (*)       1.40  =   656.250
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        656.250

=============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       ER Medium Laser                                                    62.000             
       ER Small Laser                                             (+)     17.000  =    79.000
       ER Small Laser                                             (+)      8.500  =    87.500
       Medium VSP Laser                                           (+)     56.000  =   143.500
       Medium VSP Laser                                           (+)     56.000  =   199.500
       Small Laser                                                (+)      4.500  =   204.000
       Sword                                                      (+)     20.700  =   224.700
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                            (+)     67.500  =   292.200
  Speed Factor:                               11 (Run) + 3 (Jump) (*)      2.160  =   631.152
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        631.152

=============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                               656.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                        (+)    631.152  = 1,287.402
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                          1,287
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 December 2015, 12:59:30
The Battle Value for the Ti Ts'ang TSG-9C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3252/ti-tsang-tsg-9c) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,950. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,989. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1              500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     74.250  =   574.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5            (+)     30.000  =   604.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                  (*)       1.40  =   845.950
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          845.950

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       ER Small Laser                                               (+)      8.500  =   132.500
       ER Small Laser                                               (+)      8.500  =   141.000
       Hatchet                                                      (+)     36.000  =   177.000
       Plasma Rifle                                                 (+)    210.000  =   387.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                       (+)     26.000  =   413.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                       (+)     26.000  =   439.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     90.000  =   529.000
  Speed Factor:                                 11 (Run) + 3 (Jump) (*)      2.160  = 1,142.640
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,142.640

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 845.950             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)  1,142.640  = 1,988.590
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,989
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 18 December 2015, 18:01:26
I'm not sure if I should ask here or make an update elsewhere.

The Vulture Mk III (Prime, A-D variants) are all listed as Advanced Rules on the MUL (linky thingy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6271/vulture-mk-iii-prime))

Per TRO3145: Clans p.40-41, and RS3145_unabridged p.450-454... I don't see any advanced equipment among any of the appropriate variants.

Should these all be "Standard" Rules level?  Or is there another reason they've been labeled "Advanced" ?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gamergeek on 19 December 2015, 10:05:27
The MUL used to list unit cost (where available) in the table format (I think), is there a way to display this field while searching the MUL?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 19 December 2015, 13:18:32
There currently isn't a way to add the cost to the table without doing it for everybody. I'm not sure we have room for cost without replacing another column (or at least for screen resolutions of 1920 or less.) The mobile version is even more pressed for space.
Side note on the subject: Less than half of the units in the MUL actually have a CBill cost so I'm not sure if it will really be useful to add it only to see a lot of 0s.

The Vulture Mk III (Prime, A-D variants) are all listed as Advanced Rules on the MUL (linky thingy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6271/vulture-mk-iii-prime))
I suspect it was in error when it was entered. It is fixed.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 December 2015, 11:19:39
The Battle Value for the Thunder Stallion 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3226/thunder-stallion-3) appears to be incorrectly listed as 2,667 (which matches MML). My calculations come out to 2,631. I believe the discrepancy is due to the fact that the ammo in the right front leg is not being counted as explosive whereas it should as per the latest BV rules. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                               279 x 2.5 x 1             697.500             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 138 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    207.000  =   904.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                85 x 0.5           (+)     42.500  =   947.000
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ECM Suite                                                     (+)     61.000  = 1,008.000
  Explosive Ammunition:                           2 Critical Spaces  (-)     30.000  =   978.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +2                 (*)       1.20  = 1,173.600
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,173.600

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      108.000             
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40                                        (+)    535.000  =   643.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   710.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   777.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   844.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   911.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   978.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  = 1,045.000
       LB 20-X AC                                                    (+)    237.000  = 1,282.000
       LB 20-X AC (Ammo 5)                                           (+)     30.000  = 1,312.000
       LB 20-X AC (Ammo 5)                                           (+)     30.000  = 1,342.000
       LB 20-X AC (Ammo 5)                                           (+)     30.000  = 1,372.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     85.000  = 1,457.000
  Speed Factor:                                   5 (Run) + 0 (Jump) (*)      1.000  = 1,457.000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,457.000

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                1,173.600             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,457.000  = 2,630.600
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,631
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 December 2015, 13:43:49
All Hollander III variants (BZK-D1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6333/hollander-iii-bzk-d1), BZK-D2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6334/hollander-iii-bzk-d2), and BZK-D3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6335/hollander-iii-bzk-d3)) are listed as being Standard. However, due to the fact each has Laser Reflective armor, they should be listed as Advanced.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 December 2015, 14:07:45
The Battle Value for the Scarecrow UCU-F4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6336/scarecrow-ucu-f4) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,410. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,475. Discrepancies could be due to BV rule changes for Chameleon LPS? My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
======================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 128 x 2.5 x 1                 320.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo-Composite w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5     (+)     50.250  =   370.250
  Gyro (Compact):                                   40 x 0.5               (+)     20.000  =   390.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                               
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                               (+)      2.000  =   392.250
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                               (+)      2.000  =   394.250
       Bloodhound Active Probe                                             (+)     25.000  =   419.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3 (w/ Chameleon LPS)  (*)       1.50  =   628.875
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                 628.875

======================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                               
       ER Flamer                                                                    8.000             
       ER Flamer                                                           (+)      8.000  =    16.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                                 (+)    108.000  =   124.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                                 (+)    108.000  =   232.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                                 (+)    108.000  =   340.000
       Light Machine Gun (Ammo 100) (C)                                    (+)      0.500  =   340.500
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   348.850
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   357.200
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   365.550
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   373.900
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   382.250
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   390.600
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   398.950
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   407.300
       Medium Pulse Laser                                                  (+)     24.000  =   431.300
       Medium Pulse Laser                                                  (+)     48.000  =   479.300
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                     (+)     40.000  =   519.300
  Speed Factor:                                     8 (Run) + 2 (Jump)     (*)      1.630  =   846.459
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                 846.459

======================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        628.875             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                 (+)    846.459  = 1,475.334
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                   1,475
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 December 2015, 14:14:20
All Hollander III variants (BZK-D1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6333/hollander-iii-bzk-d1), BZK-D2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6334/hollander-iii-bzk-d2), and BZK-D3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6335/hollander-iii-bzk-d3)) are listed as being Standard. However, due to the fact each has Laser Reflective armor, they should be listed as Advanced.

Fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 21 December 2015, 21:39:38
Thanks mordel. All have been the units you noted have been double checked and updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 22 December 2015, 12:23:34
The Battle Value for the Templar III TLR2-OB (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6355/templar-iii-tlr2-ob) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,918. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,919. It's only a 1 point discrepancy, so it may have just been a rounding thing My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                       263 x 2.5 x 1                657.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    146.250  =   803.750
  Gyro (Heavy-Duty):                                      85 x 0.5              (+)     85.000  =   888.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +3                    (*)       1.30  = 1,155.375
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                    1,155.375

===========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Chain Whip                                                                        5.175             
       ER PPC                                                                   (+)    229.000  =   234.175
       ER Small Laser                                                           (+)      8.500  =   242.675
       Hatchet                                                                  (+)     25.500  =   268.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   289.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   310.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   331.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     10.500  =   341.675
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   362.675
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   383.675
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                          (+)     85.000  =   468.675
  Speed Factor:                                           8 (Run) + 2 (Jump)    (*)      1.630  =   763.940
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                      763.940

===========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           1,155.375             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                      (+)    763.940  = 1,919.315
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                        1,919
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 24 December 2015, 12:43:33
The Battle Value for the Jenner JR7-K (Grace) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1696/jenner-jr7-k-grace) appears to be incorrectly listed as 737. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 702. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=============================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous (Prototype)):                            80 x 2.5 x 1             200.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel (Prototype) w/ Fusion Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)     87.000  =   287.000
  Gyro (Standard):                                              35 x 0.5          (+)     17.500  =   304.500
  Explosive Ammunition:                                         3 Critical Spaces (-)     45.000  =   259.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                                    +4                (*)       1.40  =   363.300
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                        363.300

=============================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                       
       Medium Laser                                                                       46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                               (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Narc Missile Beacon                                                        (+)     30.000  =   122.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                            (+)     35.000  =   157.000
  Speed Factor:                                                 11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)(*)      2.160  =   339.120
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                        339.120

=============================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                               363.300             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        (+)    339.120  =   702.420
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                            702
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 25 December 2015, 00:24:31
Unit: Behemoth II Heavy Tank (Standard)
Link: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6447/behemoth-ii-heavy-tank-standard

Sources:
  TRO3145 Capellan Confederation p.24-25 (unit info)
  Alpha Strike Companion p.107 (weapon table), 137 (role), 139 (conversion)

Issue: the Alpha-Strike card for the Behemoth II  appears to be missing an "IF" value per the conversion information in the ASC.
. [8x Thunderbolt_5 = 2.34/4.0/4.0 damage; IF# = Long Range damage, or 4.0]

Suggested changes:
. Add "IF4" to the listed specials
. Adjust "TUR" special to include "IF4"
. Adjust "PV" to 50
. . PV calculations: 26 OFV + 24.25 DFV + 0 GFB
. Adjust Role to "Missile Boat" (over 50% of the damage at Long Range is dealt by the missile systems)


fixed downthread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 31 December 2015, 14:59:25
The Battle Value for the Gurkha GUR-8G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5664/gurkha-gur-8g) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,229 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,241. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the retractable blade. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             119 x 2.5 x 1              297.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     43.500  =   341.000
  Gyro (Standard):                              35 x 0.5            (+)     17.500  =   358.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                  (*)       1.40  =   501.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          501.900

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     62.000  =   186.000
       ER Small Laser                                               (+)      8.500  =   194.500
       Retractable Blade                                            (+)     13.800  =   208.300
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                (+)    165.000  =   373.300
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     52.500  =   425.800
  Speed Factor:                                 12 (Run) + 0 (Jump) (*)      1.890  =   804.762
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          804.762

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 501.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)    804.762  = 1,306.662
  Cockpit (Small):                                                  (*)       0.95  = 1,241.329
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,241
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 31 December 2015, 17:25:42
The Battle Value for the Chimera CMA-2K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5667/chimera-cma-2k) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,507 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,528. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the sword. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             120 x 2.5 x 1              300.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     50.250  =   350.250
  Gyro (XL):                                    40 x 0.5            (+)     20.000  =   370.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                  (*)       1.40  =   518.350
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          518.350

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Medium Laser                                                         46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                 (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Medium Laser                                                 (+)     46.000  =   138.000
       Medium Laser                                                 (+)     23.000  =   161.000
       Small Laser                                                  (+)      4.500  =   165.500
       Small Pulse Laser                                            (+)      6.000  =   171.500
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                (+)    165.000  =   336.500
       Sword                                                        (+)     17.250  =   353.750
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     60.000  =   413.750
  Speed Factor:                                 12 (Run) + 4 (Jump) (*)      2.440  = 1,009.550
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,009.550

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 518.350             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)  1,009.550  = 1,527.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,528
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 03 January 2016, 05:31:25
I noticed something a few minutes ago on the MUL. I went to the Unit page, and searched for "lament" using the Unit Search on the left side of the screen.

Surprisingly, nothing turned up, with the following URL generated.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=lament&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=112&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

However, when I searched using the search bar in the upper right, 5 Laments showed up with no problem and the following URL was generated

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Lament

I *think* what's going on, is that its the Alpha Strike Filter that's messing things up. Even after telling the MUL to Clear the filters, the default filter for AS seems to be Ambusher. That's the following part of the first URL posted.

&Role=112

I'm pretty sure this shouldn't be the default behavior of the Unit search as it seems rather..counterproductive.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 January 2016, 08:37:16
The data is currently being migrated. We'll have to see if it is still behaving that way when we are done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 03 January 2016, 14:03:19
Any idea when we might see faction availability for the various units from Record Sheets 3145: New Tech New Upgrades?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 03 January 2016, 15:46:08
I don't know if your migration is done... if so I'd suggest you look at the advanced search options.

One cannot leave the role unspecified, and "None" doesn't mean the same thing as unspecified.

Example: one cannot search for any unit without respect to role for the presence of a given special.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Deadborder on 03 January 2016, 23:55:57
The Alpha Strike stats for the Mad Cat Mk IV (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=mad+cat+mk+iv) family are off. As per Alpha Strike Companion pg 98, the Structure Value for a 75 ton Clan 'Mech with an XXL engine should be three; the MUL Alpha Strike Card gives it as two
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Felger on 05 January 2016, 22:54:12
Is there a way to add a custom-generated alpha strike card to the force builder?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 07 January 2016, 21:33:15
The Battle Value for the No-Dachi NDA-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5692/no-dachi-nda-3s) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,679. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,706. I'm guessing it's related to the damage adjustment of the Mace due to TSM. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             216 x 2.5 x 1               540.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     80.250  =   620.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              70 x 0.5             (+)     35.000  =   655.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Guardian ECM Suite                                            (+)     61.000  =   716.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                   (*)       1.30  =   931.125
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           931.125

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                       62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       Mace                                                          (+)     36.000  =   160.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                            (+)     48.000  =   208.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                            (+)     24.000  =   232.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                            (+)     48.000  =   280.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                              (+)     56.000  =   336.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                              (+)     56.000  =   392.000
       Small Laser                                                   (+)      4.500  =   396.500
       Small Laser                                                   (+)      4.500  =   401.000
       Small Laser                                                   (+)      4.500  =   405.500
       Small Pulse Laser                                             (+)      6.000  =   411.500
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)    105.000  =   516.500
  Speed Factor:                                 9 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.500  =   774.750
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                           774.750

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  931.125             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)    774.750  = 1,705.875
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             1,706
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 10 January 2016, 09:42:04
The Battle Value for the Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5822/mad-cat-timber-wolf-z) appears to be incorrectly listed as 3,003 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 2,923. The discrepancy appears to be related to the weapon BV modification due to the heat efficiency calculation. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                        230 x 2.5 x 1                575.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 114 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    128.250  =   703.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              75 x 0.5              (+)     37.500  =   740.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Nova CEWS                                                      (+)     68.000  =   808.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                    (*)       1.30  = 1,051.375
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,051.375

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       ER Large Laser                                                        248.000             
       ER Large Laser                                                 (+)    248.000  =   496.000
       ER Medium Pulse Laser                                          (+)     58.500  =   554.500
       ER Medium Pulse Laser                                          (+)     58.500  =   613.000
       Improved ATM 9                                                 (+)    231.000  =   844.000
       Improved ATM 9                                                 (+)    231.000  = 1,075.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,129.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,183.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,237.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,291.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     75.000  = 1,366.000
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.370  = 1,871.420
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,871.420

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 1,051.375             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,871.420  = 2,922.795
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,923
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 11 January 2016, 01:07:50
Question: the Sortek Assault Craft (standard) has SRCH property; the Sortek Assault Craft (Interdictor) doesn't.

Two possibilities:
- the Interdictor also deserves the SRCH property;
- the Interdictor can only be used during daylight hours.

I'm guessing the first ;)

Cheers,

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 15 January 2016, 10:16:08
Some re-engineered laser errata
The Ebony MEB-13 should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6943/ebony-meb-13
The Spider SDR-10K should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6934/spider-sdr-10k
The Emperor EMP-8L should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6851/emperor-emp-8l
The Sagittaire SGT -14D should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6835/sagittaire-sgt-14d
The Sagittari SGT-4R should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6817/sagittarii-sgt-4r

The Night Stalker NSR-K7 should lose the REL ability  because according to the conversion rules from AS companion you have to cause 1 unit of damage in the medium range bracket (may be we need to errata it to short range or small re-engineered lasers will never give the REL ability)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6720/night-stalker-nsr-k7
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: William J. Pennington on 20 January 2016, 01:58:27
Any suggestions? I can't get any Alpha strike force to print. I've turned off my pop up blocker. I've updated adobe. I've tried chrome and edge. I'm out of ideas.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 20 January 2016, 07:23:36
The PDF printing tool needs to be rewritten after the move to the new host. No ETA at this time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 20 January 2016, 15:06:31
Any suggestions? I can't get any Alpha strike force to print. I've turned off my pop up blocker. I've updated adobe. I've tried chrome and edge. I'm out of ideas.

In the meantime, expanding the default card, or customizing the card to include changing skill (and skill based PV increases/decreases) and then copying the image into an image editing software of your choice to save as -> insert into word document -> arrange -> print works, but is incredibly cumbersome and irritating.

Ask me how my last official game went.  We had 72 'Mechs. #P
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pezmotion on 28 January 2016, 16:49:01
The cost of the Warhammer 6R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3488 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3488)) appears to be off by one C-Bill.

The TechManual's formula: (Structural Cost + Weapon/Equipment Cost) * (Omnimech Cost) * (1 + [Total Tonnage / 100])
Applied to the WHM-6R: 3,543,166.667 * 1 * 1.7 = 6,023,383.3339, which rounds down to 6,023,383.

The value for the Structural Cost + Weapon/Equipment Cost is a bit lengthy, but the only item without a nicely rounded cost is the 280 Fusion Engine, which has a cost of 1,306,666.667 (rounded for brevity per the errata). My theory is that the cost was rounded up before plugging it into the Final Unit Cost Formula, which results in a final value of 6,023,383.9, which rounds up to 6,023,384.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gauthic on 01 February 2016, 14:26:58
Seems like the Print/PDF function for Alpha Strike cards is timing out.

Also, can we have an API or perhaps a CSV download for Alpha Strike stats and point costs - no need for calculation for non-4 pilot skills, that's easy enough at the client end.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 February 2016, 14:30:46
The PDF printing tool needs to be rewritten after the move to the new host. No ETA at this time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gauthic on 01 February 2016, 14:31:33
The PDF printing tool needs to be rewritten after the move to the new host. No ETA at this time.

Thanks for repeating that for me, cavingjan :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 February 2016, 15:52:50
No problem. For the other suggestion, it is above my pay grade. I think the answer will stay no but TPTB can see it and confirm or change their answer.

Edit: I should have included this in the prior message. For a work around, save the cards as either jpgs or pngs. You can then use your OS print feature to print several on a page. That printing could be paper or if you want that pdf, a free pdf printer that are readily available.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 February 2016, 06:39:51

I found a mention of the 'HH-1 compact mobile shipyard' in Wars of Reaving (page 35).

Could this unit please be added to the MUL, with more details if possible?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 12 February 2016, 23:43:58
The Battle Value for the Jenner JR7-K (Grace) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1696/jenner-jr7-k-grace) appears to be incorrectly listed as 737. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 702. My calculations are as follows:
BV per the RS listed would be 706 with 81 points of armor though that put it 0.5 tons overweight. 80 points of armor brings the weight back into line though I couldn't find any errata after a quick search. With 80 points of armor, the BV would be 702.

The Battle Value for the Gurkha GUR-8G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5664/gurkha-gur-8g) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,229 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,241. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the retractable blade. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.
The Battle Value for the No-Dachi NDA-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5692/no-dachi-nda-3s) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,679. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,706. I'm guessing it's related to the damage adjustment of the Mace due to TSM. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.

The Battle Value for the Chimera CMA-2K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5667/chimera-cma-2k) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,507 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,528. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the sword. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.

The Battle Value for the Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5822/mad-cat-timber-wolf-z) appears to be incorrectly listed as 3,003 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 2,923. The discrepancy appears to be related to the weapon BV modification due to the heat efficiency calculation. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.

All relevant units have had their BVs updated after the re-engineered laser BV adjustments.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: soil1980 on 13 February 2016, 04:40:20
No problem. For the other suggestion, it is above my pay grade. I think the answer will stay no but TPTB can see it and confirm or change their answer.

Edit: I should have included this in the prior message. For a work around, save the cards as either jpgs or pngs. You can then use your OS print feature to print several on a page. That printing could be paper or if you want that pdf, a free pdf printer that are readily available.

Thx for the hint. Print function still isnt working. I thought it was a problem with my computer ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: martian on 21 February 2016, 12:16:28
* VERSION: MUL Online
* LOCATION: Mad Cat Mk II (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4565/mad-cat-mk-ii-standard)
* THE ERROR: MUL Online says that the Intro date of Mad Cat Mk.II (Standard) is 3066. However, Technical Readout: 3067 (Corrected Fourth Printing) with in-universe date of 3067 clearly says that "the Mad Cat Mk II has now been in production for more than half a decade" (p.132, the right column). So if "more than half a decade" is approximately six years, that means that the Intro date is 3067-6=3061.
* THE CORRECTION: The Intro date of Mad Cat Mk.II should be changed to 3061.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 21 February 2016, 13:10:31
Thanks. Changed to 3062 to keep the Civil War era, and TR 3067 in universe date is Dec 3067.  So 5 years would be Dec 3062, and the more than that would be however many months they started production earlier than Dec in 3062.  The TR also has them starting the new project "at the beginning of the decade" and to full-scale production in less than 15 months.  If they started late 3060, that could put them in to 3062 as well.  And I'd rather not change the era if I don't have to.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: martian on 21 February 2016, 13:13:16
OK, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 22 February 2016, 13:42:03
**bump**

Unit: Behemoth II Heavy Tank (Standard)
Link: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6447/behemoth-ii-heavy-tank-standard

Sources:
  TRO3145 Capellan Confederation p.24-25 (unit info)
  Alpha Strike Companion p.107 (weapon table), 137 (role), 139 (conversion)

Issue: the Alpha-Strike card for the Behemoth II  appears to be missing an "IF" value per the conversion information in the ASC.
. [8x Thunderbolt_5 = 2.34/4.0/4.0 damage; IF# = Long Range damage, or 4.0]

Suggested changes:
. Add "IF4" to the listed specials
. Adjust "TUR" special to include "IF4"
. Adjust "PV" to 50
. . PV calculations: 26 OFV + 24.25 DFV + 0 GFB
. Adjust Role to "Missile Boat" (over 50% of the damage at Long Range is dealt by the missile systems)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2016, 13:56:14
Thanks, Behemoth II corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2016, 14:00:37
The Alpha Strike stats for the Mad Cat Mk IV (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=mad+cat+mk+iv) family are off. As per Alpha Strike Companion pg 98, the Structure Value for a 75 ton Clan 'Mech with an XXL engine should be three; the MUL Alpha Strike Card gives it as two

Thanks. Fixed.  PVs also went up 1 due to Structure increase.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2016, 15:53:41
Some re-engineered laser errata
The Ebony MEB-13 should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6943/ebony-meb-13
The Spider SDR-10K should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6934/spider-sdr-10k
The Emperor EMP-8L should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6851/emperor-emp-8l
The Sagittaire SGT -14D should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6835/sagittaire-sgt-14d
The Sagittari SGT-4R should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6817/sagittarii-sgt-4r

The Night Stalker NSR-K7 should lose the REL ability  because according to the conversion rules from AS companion you have to cause 1 unit of damage in the medium range bracket (may be we need to errata it to short range or small re-engineered lasers will never give the REL ability)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6720/night-stalker-nsr-k7

REL added/removed as listed above.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 01 March 2016, 09:40:50
Pendragon PDG-1X
Pendragon PDG-1R
Pendragon PDG-2R

All units should have the CASEII ability, not CASE.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4799/pendragon-pdg-1r

NCKestrel: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rishingo on 05 March 2016, 06:40:09
Cost is still shown as something you can Filter by, but no longer shows up in the columns once sorting is complete.  Is this a recent removal, or am I using the wrong browser?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 05 March 2016, 10:20:35
You're not scrolling far enough to get past the ones with no cost.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 05 March 2016, 15:12:51
The Jihad era data is listed as Complete, but its missing two 'Mechs, both of which can be found in the Total Chaos book.

AWS-10KM Awesome (Cameron)
AS7-D-H Atlas II (Devlin)

Also, will the MUL be reconfigured so the eras match eras as listed in IO?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rishingo on 05 March 2016, 20:16:43
You're not scrolling far enough to get past the ones with no cost.

No, some of the lists I get back (eg. Only Mechs that cost between 1,000,000 to 3,500,00 C-Bills, only from inner sphere, only age of war, Star League, and Early Succession Wars) return a list of around 20 or so, and there's no column for price shown.  And I know there used to be, 'cause I've used the MUL before to prove to my players that a certain 'Mech costs X not Y to resolve arguments.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 March 2016, 21:52:52
The Jihad era data is listed as Complete, but its missing two 'Mechs, both of which can be found in the Total Chaos book.

AWS-10KM Awesome (Cameron)
AS7-D-H Atlas II (Devlin)
Added. The Jihad may be marked as complete for faction data but this can happen when a product adds new units if we don't get them put in right away. Eridani Epsilon are also added. Alpha Strike stats will be entered this weekend.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 March 2016, 19:14:06
All of the Zeus-X designs from TR3145LC should be renamed "Zeus X" to match the Record Sheets and fluff from said product.

The 9WD and 9WD (Stacy) should remain "Zeus-X" as that's how their RS and writeups in Wolf and Blake are done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 March 2016, 19:22:10
If we make that change, the 9WD models will no longer show as a variant of the other ones. The MUL will treat it as a completely separate base unit. It will probably be more appropriate to change them all to Zeus X.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 March 2016, 19:39:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x

The DC didn't even start working on prototype Reactive armor until 3058. The write up in TR3145LC states "whose limited production during the Civil War merely served propaganda." The date should be bumped up to 3062+
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 15 March 2016, 09:28:19
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s

Card is not generating.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 March 2016, 09:45:32
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s

Card is not generating.

We haven't created/entered AS stats for it yet.

EDIT: Now we have.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 March 2016, 10:21:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x

The DC didn't even start working on prototype Reactive armor until 3058. The write up in TR3145LC states "whose limited production during the Civil War merely served propaganda." The date should be bumped up to 3062+

Time for that yearly debate....OK, it's off to discussion by the MUL team.  Hopefully we'll have an answer sometime.  (Last year we agreed that 3054 was wrong, but couldn't settle on 3059 versus 3063).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 15 March 2016, 15:27:58
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4787/panther-pnt-9r-tanaka

Needs AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 15 March 2016, 15:47:05
Whenever you try to customize an existing card, even just to change the picture, the type and the skill level go blank and have to be re-filled in.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 11:54:36
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4994/scorpion-scp-1n-rubinsky


Need AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2016, 12:09:38
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4994/scorpion-scp-1n-rubinsky

Need AS card

If there is no Record Sheet listed, then an AS card might not be possible.  Please do not list units that don't have an RS listed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 15:06:35
If there is no Record Sheet listed, then an AS card might not be possible.  Please do not list units that don't have an RS listed, thanks.

If there is no record sheet, then how does it have a BV listed? If there really isn't one, please pass that along up the chain to someone who can make one, rather than just asking me to stop asking about it.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5810/warhammer-whm-6k-yorinaga

Needs AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 16 March 2016, 15:15:55
If there really isn't one, please pass that along up the chain to someone who can make one, rather than just asking me to stop asking about it.

We are striving to fill in all units, eventually.  However, you are being told how the process works, by one of the major people behind the process.  Please follow the instructions.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2016, 15:21:46
I'm just trying to save you the work of filling out posts that won't change anything.  If it doesn't have an RS, there's no point in filling out post that says there is no AS card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 15:43:12
Sorry if I sound snarky, but I don't have access to all the record sheets. So there is no way for me to know if one unit doesn't have one.

I'm just seeing a hole and letting you know it needs plugging, if that's not possible at this time, that's fine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 March 2016, 16:18:46
The "TRO/RS" category tells you where the record sheet can be found.  If it is listed as "None", then no record sheet exists.

Here (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/192) is a convenient list of all units on the MUL that currently have "None" as their record sheet source to reference when you come across something like this again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 16:32:35
I see a lot of Omnimech base models, so those would obviously not have cards.

Yet, mysteriously, some of those other units do have cards....

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4556/mackie-msk-7a

So, what gives? How does that work for some units but not others?  ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2016, 16:38:17
I see a lot of Omnimech base models, so those would obviously not have cards.

Yet, mysteriously, some of those other units do have cards....

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4556/mackie-msk-7a

So, what gives? How does that work for some units but not others?  ???

You got a bonus.  You're welcome.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 16 March 2016, 18:31:29
You got a bonus.  You're welcome.

It was incorrectly tagged as no record sheet. That is fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 16 March 2016, 21:14:28
I see a lot of Omnimech base models, so those would obviously not have cards.

Yet, mysteriously, some of those other units do have cards....

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4556/mackie-msk-7a

So, what gives? How does that work for some units but not others?  ???
The record sheets collection for TRO: Prototypes is still in the works. While the stats are published in the book, there's no published sheets. The same goes for all units associated with Historical: Reunification War; published stats but no published record sheets. Incorrectly tagged units have been mostly corrected.  :) Others are being looked into.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 17 March 2016, 11:41:32
Pendragon PDG-1X
Pendragon PDG-1R
Pendragon PDG-2R

All units should have the CASEII ability, not CASE.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4799/pendragon-pdg-1r

NCKestrel: corrected, thanks.

Second issue with Pendragons.  All have composite structure, so structure value should be 2, not 4.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 March 2016, 12:08:05
Second issue with Pendragons.  All have composite structure, so structure value should be 2, not 4.

Corrected along with appropriate PVs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 March 2016, 12:34:21
I don't know much about Alpha Strike, but I *think* the HBK-7S and TSN-X-4 should have the RCN ability.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5549/tessen-tsn-x-4


Xotl: correct.  Updated along with PVs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 17 March 2016, 12:42:23
The Assassin Model 99 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/130/assassin-asn-99) should have the ECM special.


Xotl: correct.  Updated along with PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 17 March 2016, 21:37:30
Not exactly an errata but more of a question.
What about faction use lists from 3 sources:
RS 3145 NTNU
TRO: 3145 RoTS
XTRO: Republic vol 1?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 17 March 2016, 22:11:37
On the To Do list. I'll poke around to see if someone has any notes on these.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 17 March 2016, 22:17:23
On the To Do list. I'll poke around to see if someone has any notes on these.

Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 18 March 2016, 09:52:00
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/495/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-h

None of the pictures for the Ebon Jaguar are loading.

Might I suggest using this pic?

http://operationbulldog.blogspot.com/2010/12/nova-cat-dossier-ebon-jaguar-cauldron.html
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 March 2016, 10:17:04
Cauldron-Born (Ebon Jaguar) pictures are loading now, thanks for pointing that out.  (Using the TR3058 picture though, not the older FM picture you linked too).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 21 March 2016, 14:44:23
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5856/cheetah-ii-f-12a

Missing AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 21 March 2016, 15:03:30
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4565/mad-cat-mk-ii-standard

TRO 3067 pg. 132-133
http://i.imgur.com/k6eop2R.png
http://i.imgur.com/of5Z3lC.png

Would Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf or more clans be able to be added to the MUL for the Mad Cat Mk.II

It says in TRO3067 "Clans Wolf and Jade Falcon, both obvious candidates for sales, have purchased none; neither has Clan Ice Hellion or even Clan Steel Viper (though all field a few won through various Trials).

 So Ice Hellion is included on the MUL though but not the other 3.

For the Role?
Are you sure it is a Brawler? Is the base variant more a sniper or at least mid range platform rather then brawling? I could see the Mk.II 2 being a brawler but the original?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 21 March 2016, 15:52:48
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/ExtensionCard/952?extensionid=1043

Squad size reads as 0 for 5 man unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 21 March 2016, 16:50:15
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1722/jump-platoon-rifle

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2239/motorized-platoon-rifle

Need AS cards
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 March 2016, 17:09:42
In reverse order:
Ballistic and Rifle are redundant with each other. We haven't had a chance to remove the extra one.

I'll see if I can get the 0 changed to a 5 on the Elemental when I get home from the hospital tonight.

The Mad Cat is more of a mid range brawler. Brawlers are not short ranged units. Brawlers are also called troopers. The CIH entry for the Civil War era is most likely in error. I'll confirm and update.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 21 March 2016, 17:13:52
Much appreciated thank you!

If it ends up not an error can you look into seeing if Wolf and Falcon are maybe missing if using the same sentence I quoted as backing for CIH?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 23 March 2016, 20:03:00
Jinggau JN-G7L, MUL entry http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1707/jinggau-jn-g7l

Comes up as available in Clan Invasion period. As per the MUL, introduction date 3068, Era Jihad, with the note "There was one protoype in 3059 that failed. ".

Problem: if the only existing unit in 3059 - singular - failed, then there's no unit available in Clan Invasion period.

Fix: remove from Clan Invasion availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 March 2016, 20:47:49
But how can I start that secret Liao super army? Looking through the working files, it had a date of 3059. I have no clue when that got changed as more recent files have the correct date. It is fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 23 March 2016, 21:12:22
Problem: Prototype misspelled in that Jinggau entry. Huge problem, I know.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 23 March 2016, 21:25:07
But how can I start that secret Liao super army? Looking through the working files, it had a date of 3059. I have no clue when that got changed as more recent files have the correct date. It is fixed now.

I think there was a placeholder entry for a "JN-G6L" prototype with the 3059 date from back when I was inventing dates for everything, since I wasn't sure if it would see the light of day or not. This was well before it was decided to have the MUL track faction availability, and we were including everything and the kitchen sink just in case it was useful down the road. Perhaps its entry just got merged with the JN-G7L by accident. My working files are long-gone, of course, but this was probably my mistake.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 March 2016, 21:57:35
You can take the blame for the typo of prototype. The date and faction data is mine.  ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 23 March 2016, 22:09:35
"Construction of the JN-7GL was sidelined by the decision to restart an OstBosch construction line. Following the disturbing revelations accompanying that failed exercise, the technicians involved volunteered spontaneously to undergo tequila therapy to remove their memories, before spending their remaining days atoning in the proof-reading mines of Capella ..."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 24 March 2016, 11:42:20
Fiddling with Watchdog CEWS units, or "WAT" Special, the following units are missing the "ECM" "LPRB" specials and their requisite conversion cost (Ground Force Bonuses, Alpha Strike Companion table p.140), or +3 PV each.

Hankyu F : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6940/hankyu-arctic-cheetah-f
Parash 2: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2427/parash-2
Tiburon (Standard) : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6552/tiburon-standard
Wight -4NC Dezgra : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5600/wight-wgt-4nc-dezgra
Beowulf IIC PR :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7294/beowulf-iic-pr
Ursus 3  :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5329/ursus-3
Gladiator G : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6841/gladiator-executioner-g
Daishi E  : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6833/daishi-dire-wolf-e
Sulla F : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6816/sulla-f
Ostrogoth D : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6810/ostrogoth-d
Jengiz X  : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4398/jengiz-x
Scytha F  : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6808/scytha-f
Scytha X  :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5003/scytha-x

Edit Calculations were done by hand for Daishi E, Gladiator G, Hankyu F, Parash 2, Beowulf IIC (PR and Standard), and Scytha (F and X) via their respective record sheets/TROs

...
The Hankyu [F] also should have a Jump value of 12", {currently 8"}; though this should not change it's MF calculation (not it's top speed, still uses jump movement)
...
Beowulf IIC (Standard) -- Among the listed Specials, it's missing the WAT special (per RS_Prototypes), and should be added for Search Result purposes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 24 March 2016, 13:36:23
Something I discovered when making a custom card for a small craft:

A threshold value will only display on the card if the type is "AF" or "CF".  I know DropShips and such with multiple firing arcs are beyond the scope of that tool, but small craft (SC) should be able use the same card as fighters.

Addendum: In addition to losing TH values, putting SC under type also removes the aerospace extreme range band.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 24 March 2016, 15:21:18
Fiddling with Watchdog CEWS units, or "WAT" Special, the following units are missing the "ECM" "LPRB" specials and their requisite conversion cost (Ground Force Bonuses, Alpha Strike Companion table p.140), or +3 PV each.


I'll attempt to tackle these tonight.  Thanks.

EDIT: All done.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 March 2016, 15:24:10
Something I discovered when making a custom card for a small craft:

A threshold value will only display on the card if the type is "AF" or "CF".  I know DropShips and such with multiple firing arcs are beyond the scope of that tool, but small craft (SC) should be able use the same card as fighters.

Addendum: In addition to losing TH values, putting SC under type also removes the aerospace extreme range band.

Units small craft sized or larger are not supported by the MUL at this time.  It's not just the custom card generator, we can't do canon units of those types correctly either.  I don't expect to see that capability added any time soon unfortunately.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 March 2016, 16:13:14
Infantry BV calculations are incorrect for Total Warfare units.

It would appear that they are using the older infantry weapon tables rather than from the newer errata tables.
Verified by hand and by MegaMek Lab
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 25 March 2016, 22:18:14
Total Warfare Foot Platoon (Flamer) BV calculated using single support weapon while TW shows the platoon as using two.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 26 March 2016, 21:09:59
House Davion Gauss Infantry:

Not sure where this one fits. HB House Davion, TechManual, or MUL.

According the HBHD Gauss Infantry are supposed to carry 6 M345B3 Thunderstroke II Gauss rifles.
The MUL gives this unit an intro date of 3061
TechManual has an intro on the rifle of 3062

Which needs errata. Should the rifles intro be changed? Does the intro for the three infantry units on the MUL need to change to 3062?

Based just on HBHD I would think that the MUL intro should be changed to 3062. This may be a simple change for the MUL or may require further discussion among TPTB
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 27 March 2016, 17:42:06
Fiddling with Watchdog CEWS units, or "WAT" Special, the following units are missing the "ECM" "LPRB" specials and their requisite conversion cost (Ground Force Bonuses, Alpha Strike Companion table p.140), or +3 PV each.

Gladiator G : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6841/gladiator-executioner-g


http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/ExtensionCard/952?extensionid=1043

Reads squad 0 instead of 5

Have these been corrected?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 March 2016, 10:45:05
The three units from OTP: Capellan Crusades are missing
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2016, 10:56:20
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/ExtensionCard/952?extensionid=1043

Reads squad 0 instead of 5

Have these been corrected?

It has now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2016, 11:00:51
House Davion Gauss Infantry:

Not sure where this one fits. HB House Davion, TechManual, or MUL.

According the HBHD Gauss Infantry are supposed to carry 6 M345B3 Thunderstroke II Gauss rifles.
The MUL gives this unit an intro date of 3061
TechManual has an intro on the rifle of 3062

Which needs errata. Should the rifles intro be changed? Does the intro for the three infantry units on the MUL need to change to 3062?

Based just on HBHD I would think that the MUL intro should be changed to 3062. This may be a simple change for the MUL or may require further discussion among TPTB

Date changed on Gauss infantry to 3062. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 13:17:10
How reliable is the Faction Force table in Combat Operations (10979)? Just curious if this is held in same view as a RAT or more reliable source? We talked about wondering if Clan Ice Hellion was a mistake, I think I found where they got the idea to place them on the MUL for the Mk.II though in the first place, among CIH also on that list for Clans is ironically again Jade Falcon and as well Wolf in Exile.

Page references.
[spoiler]
For Clan
Diamond Shark(Pg.112)
Ice Hellion (Pg.115)
Jade Falcon (Pg.116)
Nova Cat (Pg.116)
Wolf-In-Exile (Pg.119)

For IS
Kurita (Pg.125)
Davion (Pg.127)
Steiner (Pg.132)
Star League-3061 (Pg.133)
[/spoiler]

Also Star League guessing from use with in Nova Cat as well as the few house units but worth adding maybe as well if there is enough to back the other clans?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2016, 13:37:28
Faction Availability has no rules.  It's a brawl between various conflicting sources, opinions, bizarre rituals and occasionally direct intervention by powers beyond the MUL team.

Usually we try to take all sources in to account.  If there is a direct conflict (same unit, same time, different answers), then we often prioritize either a current Technical Readout or more recently published source.

But none of those are rules.  Thirty years of sourcebooks and dozens if not hundreds of different authors means we can write specific rules, but have to take each case as it comes.  You are welcome to make suggestions, that's why this errata thread specifically allows suggestions.  We don't require a definitive answer before you ask, because there often isn't one.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 13:48:23
Alright thanks! Just trying to help, I kinda understand why reluctant due to the TRO stating that the only ones that would have been in service with Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ice Hellion, and Steel Vipers as noted were only obtained in winning them through various trials. It only says a few so I think there is a little conflict by what a few actually means in terms of numbers. -edit: miss read TRO thought made mention of unknown amount in the Lyran forces.-

I just am a bit surprised by only Diamond Shark and Nova Cat on the MUL I guess for clans. Was expecting or hoping for a few more Clans on that list, at least Wolf in Exile during the Civil War. Find it odd though that Falcon is mentioned both on the RAT and FFT while they despised the mech supposedly.

I just linked those if it was worthy to note them or not for the MUL at least maybe in Jihad and later years. The only source we have for Mk.II in Fedcom Civil war is in 3067 stuff right at the end of it all.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 16:48:35
For the Mad Cat Mk.II (I am not trying to push this to much)

Clan Ghost Bear: Could the argument that since the RAT in Field Manual: Updates does list Ghost Bear with them on the 2nd line battlemechs? I know some in the RAT is contradicted by the TRO (AKA Jade Falcon having them though hating them ect.) BUT Ghost Bear was never mentioned in the TRO at having or not having the mech OR objecting to the mech (at least as far as my research has found). They were business partners with Diamond Shark as mentioned in Field Manual portion of Diamond Sharks. The mech does kinda fit the Ghost Bear profile in fast,agile, firepower, decent protection. They would have been rebuilding a bit after the border conflicts between DCS/Nova Cat and Hells Horses. But it is still on a list for units available somewhat to that faction for selection right?

Clan Wolf In Exile:
They are listed as posted above in the Combat Operations installment of rules (3067), they do have the Mad Cat Mk.II in their Faction Force Table (still a bit confused if this is worthy or not). There is no contradiction between the TRO and this installment and similar to the Ghost Bear's situation of rebuilding.

Thoughts? Or is the Mk.II pretty set in stone for the Fedcom era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 28 March 2016, 18:44:53
Information that was reviewed at the time that the faction data for that era was compiled.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 28 March 2016, 18:53:02
How reliable is the Faction Force table in Combat Operations (10979)?
Not at all really. That was the first attempt at a faction availability list, and it's now over a decade out of date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 18:58:57
Alright, I just was curious I guess about all this, looks like any changes will not happen unless a new TRO is done up, that I don't think will change anything as added, sorry to question it a little bit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 29 March 2016, 23:27:51
Would it be possible to get some images for the infantry platoons and points? Right now they are blank.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1147/foot-platoon-rifle

I was thinking some higher resolution pics from pg.23 of total warfare might serve the purpose.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 30 March 2016, 14:06:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5242/ti-tsang-tsg-9ddc

This should actually be called the TSG-9DDC Ti Ts'ang DDC.

I'm honestly not sure if its a "Ti Ts'ang DCC" with a variant number of TSG-9DDC, or if the extra DDC is an extra identifier, much like a character's name would be, but both XTRO Liao and TRO Prototypes are definitive about the extra DDC
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 30 March 2016, 14:14:23
Making it a "Ti Ts'ang DDC" would keep it from appearing in the variants list on any other Ti Ts'ang due to how those are handled (at least, that's my understanding).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 March 2016, 14:15:58
Making it a "Ti Ts'ang DDC" would keep it from appearing in the variants list on any other Ti Ts'ang due to how those are handled (at least, that's my understanding).

That's why the MUL lists it as it does.  It's an exception to general MUL naming rules.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 31 March 2016, 14:10:28
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4935/rook-nh-1x-rook-x

I assume the name change from Rook-X to Rook is for the same reason as the Ti ts'ang DDC? But if you have the extra name "Rook-X" on it, why the change from NH-1B to NH-1X?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 31 March 2016, 14:12:31
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4935/rook-nh-1x-rook-x

I assume the name change from Rook-X to Rook is for the same reason as the Ti ts'ang DDC? But if you have the extra name "Rook-X" on it, why the change from NH-1B to NH-1X?

Because there was already a different NH-1B.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jh316 on 31 March 2016, 16:39:55
I see that the ASN-21 has IF0* and the ASN-101 doesn't, is there a reason for that?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/127/assassin-asn-21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/126/assassin-asn-101
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 31 March 2016, 18:05:52
Because there was already a different NH-1B.

Sure, but there are 4 JR7-K Jenners, and that's not a problem, because they all have different names after them, why is that different for the Rook-X? And are these official name changes, or just MUL changes?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1011/eyleuka-eyl-4a

Has an intro date of 3068, but the era seems to be set for the Civil War. Not really sure which is correct to be honest.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 31 March 2016, 18:25:50
There one JR7-K and three modified JR7-Ks.  That's not the same as two different Rooks with the same designation.  Yes, it's errata to XTR Retrotech.  It should be in the errata thread for it ( if not, should be added).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 11:59:58
I'll leave that up to you, along with the report on the Ti Ts'ang DDC.

Here's an oddity for the coders

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=3068&MaxIntro=3075&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&Types=18&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

If you click that, you get a page that shows all BattleMechs, with intro dates from 3068 to 3075. But if you sort it from lowest to highest, two things interesting pop up.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7398/atlas-ii-as7-d-h-devlin
Which has no date (Still) so I'm not really sure why its being pulled, but maybe the mul recognizes its supposed to be in the Era that the intro years chosen follow..or something like that.

But the big weird one is
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/298/battlemaster-blr-6x

Which has an intro year of 3085. There's no way this should be showing up in the search, and yet it does. It also sort of seems to hang out there. I've changed the parameters on the Years to 3068-3076 and it shows up again. But a search of 3075 to 3084, it doesn't show up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 April 2016, 12:31:11
What you don't see is that there are two date fields. The visible one can be blank or even use text. The internal one for search purposes is strictly numbers. I would guess the dates are mismatched on the battlemaster. I'll have to check.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 14:37:38
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/752/crusader-crd-3r

Shouldn't this be 2572 instead of 2752? The writeup in TR3039 states that it fought in the Reunification War and was introduced in the late 26th Century. Could be a transposing of numbers?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2016, 14:47:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/752/crusader-crd-3r

Shouldn't this be 2572 instead of 2752? The writeup in TR3039 states that it fought in the Reunification War and was introduced in the late 26th Century. Could be a transposing of numbers?

The Crusader was introduced (the 1R) in the late 26th century, not the 3R.  The discussion was years ago so I don't remember the specifics, but the 3R couldn't have been the late 26th century model.  That's why the 1R entry was created.

Ah, I think I remember why now. The 3R is the 2R without the streak and artemis (ancient battletech lore).  But Streaks didn't exist in the late 26th century.  So the 1R was a 2R without Streak SRM-2s.  The 2R then switched to Streaks.  The 3R was then the downgrade model.  It didn't go 3R, then 2R, then back to 3R.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 15:33:50
Okaleedokalee. Though I could've thought of easier fixes that didn't screw up previous fluff :) But I'll digress.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2016, 15:47:43
Okaleedokalee. Though I could've thought of easier fixes that didn't screw up previous fluff :) But I'll digress.

Go for it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 20:37:14
Well, since the 1R doesn't exist yet, I'm left off the hook for the not knowing about it. :) But still. This seems to only be an issue because whoever wrote up the 2R didn't read the fluff on the 3R. I would've thought the simplest answer would've been to issue errata and change the name of the 2R to the 4R, then you keep the 3039 fluff intact, and don't have to try to explain why the Star League suddenly started to produce downgraded Crusaders at the height of their technological prowess.

So you get the 3R at 2572 (or something similar) that matches the fluff from 3039
Quote
Introduced in the late twenty-sixth century, the CRD-3R Crusader became the workhorse of the SLDF’s line regiments as they battled Periphery troops during the Reunification War.
Quote

Then you have the 4R at 2649, which is a few years after Streak technology was invented. Which makes sense. Its an advanced version of one of the SLDF's "workhorse" design.

And then after the fall of the Star League as technology declined, the 3R was put back into production as an introtech design as "other manufacturers continued to churn out Crusaders, making them one of the most common heavy BattleMechs in existence." (3039).

I mean, its not like 3075 wasn't already filled with errata (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,5936.0.html). And we're just talking about a single number change (and really, its not like we haven't seen odd numberings before, but hey, TR3075 can take a bit more errata to keep people from pulling their hair out over it). So this way you match the fluff and don't have to try to explain why the Star League downgraded their design at the height of technology.

The way it is now, it seems like the decision was made to ignore the fluff from 3039, create a whole new 'Mech that's never been mentioned as existing before, and create a downgraded 'Mech when they have no reason to really exist. Its like the decision took the most complicated way possible WITH the added bonus of ignoring specific fluff from not all that old of a product.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2016, 21:06:58
You didn't go back far enough.  TR 3025 talks about the "original Crusaders" superior long range (Phoenix) and short range (hawk) missiles.  That had long supposed to mean Artemis and Streak.  The 2R just made that official.
But Streaks didn't exist in the 26th century (late or otherwise).  TechManual lists them as around 2650?
Therefore the 2R couldn't have been the original in the late 26th century either.
We were going to have to break canon somewhere. We decided interpreting 3039 to be referring to the Crusader in general, and not the 3R in specific, was the less damaging of breaks. 
There is no solution that doesn't break at least some fluff.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 21:57:52
Nope, I went back. :) I just considered the specific of TR3039 to trump the apocryphal, non-specific of TR3025, which was a flawed product.

I mean, there's a reason that CGL rewrote all those entries and did 3039, rather than just reprinting TR3025. To give priority to 3025 seems odd to me. But you've explained your position, and y'all are in charge, so that's that :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 April 2016, 12:15:14
Pursuant to the linked ruling: (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52024.msg1200628#msg1200628)

Should the Bolla Stealth Tank's Specials be amended to not have C3S (and C3M where appropriate) and their PVs suitably recalculated, since by the ruling they can never use C3?  There is no way to turn STL off, and no critical hit, damage, or opponent's action that can disable STL.

I lament the loss of the most hilarious combo in Alpha Strike (now that I'm aware of it), but the points are still being paid for the C3.

This would also affect the the WOB version of the Bolla, the Raven 4LC (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc), Mongoose II 267 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2217/mongoose-ii-mon-267), the Sha Yu 4B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5027/sha-yu-syu-4b), the Nexus II NXS2-B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2262/nexus-ii-nxs2-b), Raijin II 200-B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2629/raijin-ii-rjn-200-b) and C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2630/raijin-ii-rjn-200-c), Cronus TD9 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5680/cronus-cns-td9), Goliath 5W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1236/goliath-gol-5w), both the Hunter Killer [C3/HRR] (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6740/grenadier-battle-armor-hunter-killer-c3hrr) and Grenadier II (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7391/grenadier-ii-battle-armor-b), the Kobold X-C3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5561/kobold-battle-armor-x-c3), and finally the Tortoise II (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7359/tortoise-ii-battle-armor-c3) battle armor suits.

Similarly, a number of units (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=STL+PRB&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=) have both STL and PRB.  PRB likewise does not work under an ECM field.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 03 April 2016, 22:40:16
Wasp LAM WSP-110  (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5391/wasp-lam-wsp-110)

No weight listed; as per Wasp chassis, & other record sheets, this should be 30 tons.

Side question - all LAMs are listed as role NONE. I believe LAMs should qualify for role SCOUT (ASC, p135):

Scout units are the speedsters of any force. Designed to serve in the forefront of any action, where they act as reconnaissance elements, Scouts favor mobility over all other considerations. Most Scouts, therefore, tend to be small, lightly armored, and barely armed. Because of this, these units should avoid combat unless in swarms.

Thanks in advance,

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 April 2016, 11:49:23
Behemoth (Stone Rhino) variants 2-6 lack art
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/319/behemoth-stone-rhino-2
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/320/behemoth-stone-rhino-3
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3814/behemoth-stone-rhino-4
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3815/behemoth-stone-rhino-5
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3816/behemoth-stone-rhino-6

Behemoth (Stone Rhino) (Standard) has the silhouette
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/318/behemoth-stone-rhino-standard

but the (Prototype) has the unseen art
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3813/behemoth-stone-rhino-prototype
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2016, 12:15:42
Prototype deleted, it got canonized as the Matar.

(Standard), 5 and 6 have silhouette.   2-4 have the Reseen image.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2016, 12:32:26
Wasp LAM WSP-110  (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5391/wasp-lam-wsp-110)

No weight listed; as per Wasp chassis, & other record sheets, this should be 30 tons.
Looks like somebody already fixed this.

Quote
Side question - all LAMs are listed as role NONE. I believe LAMs should qualify for role SCOUT (ASC, p135):

Assigned Wasp and Stinger LAMs as Scouts, Phoenix Hawk LAMs as Strikers, and Shadow Hawk LAMs as Snipers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 04 April 2016, 19:16:56
Commando COM-1D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/669/commando-com-1d) appears to be missing art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 04 April 2016, 19:23:50
Looks like somebody already fixed this.

Assigned Wasp and Stinger LAMs as Scouts, Phoenix Hawk LAMs as Strikers, and Shadow Hawk LAMs as Snipers.

Thankee! That works well, albeit I would have been happy with the Pheenies as Scouts also. Means my Marik Guard company won't be all Support lances ;)

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adgar76 on 05 April 2016, 10:01:25
The Uller (Kit Fox) I is incorrectly listed with a ground speed of 10''.
Should be:
6 (base) x 1.25 (supercharger) -1 (modular armor) = 6.5 (rounds up to 7, or 14'').
Because of this, the TMM should be +3.
PV should be recalculated accordingly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 April 2016, 10:17:37
The Uller (Kit Fox) I is incorrectly listed with a ground speed of 10''.
Should be:
6 (base) x 1.25 (supercharger) -1 (modular armor) = 6.5 (rounds up to 7, or 14'').
Because of this, the TMM should be +3.
PV should be recalculated accordingly.

Thanks.  We missed the supercharger. Move, TMM and PV updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adgar76 on 06 April 2016, 06:51:56
Apologies in advance if my math is off, but I think I might have spotted a couple wrong stats on the Surat (Gray Death) Solahma Suit:

For a 4-man (and 5-man) squad, Short Range Damage should be 3, not 2:
( 5,7 (Heavy Small laser) + 0,5 (AP Weapon) ) x 3,5 (Troop Factor) / 10 = 6,2 x 3,5 /10 = 2,17 (rounds up to 3)

For a 4-man squad, Armor should be 1:
9 (armor of a single trooper) x 4 / 30 = 36 / 30 = 1,2 (rounds normally to 1)

To get an Armor value of 2, you would need a 5-man squad:
9 (armor of a single trooper) x 5 / 30 = 45 / 30 = 1,5 (rounds normally to 2)

By my math, the PV of a 4-man squad with the updated stats should remain at 9 points:
( 9 (Defensive value) + 3 (Offensive Value) ) x 0,75 (movement of 6'' and only S damage) = 12 x 0,75 = 9
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 06 April 2016, 10:33:51
@Adgar76 - Your damage calculation looks good to me (I have 2.17 as well, which rounds UP to 3).
I think because the Surat are "CAR5" the 2 Armor bubbles is correct; the "Squad 4" should probably be "Squad 5" (defaults to Clan formation, being a Solahama).  ...However, when putting my own formulas in...

a "CAR4" should be 8 PV
both "CAR5" and "CAR6" should both be 10 PV

"Surat" Gray Death Solahma Suit (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7307/surat-gray-death-solahma-suit-standard)
reference: XTRO_Republic I, p.14
AlphaStrike Companion p.90-141

(my work is offline, pending TPTB using their own tables/values)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 April 2016, 10:53:47
Surat has been updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2016, 16:26:19
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7395/ti-tsang-jason

Should have "()" around the name "Jason" to match up with other designs.

Also, the abbreviation for the Battletech Dossiers: Jason Zaklan (http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/418) should most likely be "BD:JZ" rather than "BT:JZ" to match with the other Battletech Dossiers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 April 2016, 16:30:19
Thanks, (Jason) and the source abbreviation corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2016, 17:48:14
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2578/preta-c-prt-oe-eminus

Should be advanced (Thunderbolt Launcher)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1325/grigori-c-grg-oe-eminus

Should be advanced (Thunderbolt Launcher)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1319/grigori-c-grg-o-tamiel

Should be advanced (Thunderbolt Launcher)

Edit
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1826/koschei-ksc-5x

Should be Advanced as well, the only non-Tourney tech it has on it (At that time) are Claws, which are Advanced :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2016, 19:23:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1197/gladiator-keller

According to RS3075u-AoW, page 100, this should be called the GLD-1R Gladiator (Keller).

Also, the BV should be 1553
Quote
Defensive BV Calculation Breakdown
(Note: BV Calculations include defensive BV for armored components.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Total Armor Factor (185) * Armor Type Modifier (1.0) * 2.5                462.50
Total Structure Points (91) * Structure Type Modifier (1.0)
    * Engine Type Modifier (0.75) * 1.5                                   102.38
Mech Tonnage (55) * Gyro Type Modifer (0.5)                                27.50
Total Defensive BV of all Equipment                                         5.00
Excessive Ammunition Penalty                                                0.00
Explosive Ammunition Penalty                                              -30.00
Explosive Item Penalty                                                     -3.00
Subtotal                                                                  564.38
Defensive Speed Factor Breakdown:
    Maximum Ground Movement Modifier: 1.30
    Maximum Jump Movement Modifier:   1.30
    Defensive Speed Factor Bonus from Equipment: 0.00
    Minimum Defensive Speed Factor:   0.00
    (Max of Run or Jump) + DSF Bonus = 1.30
Total DBV (Subtotal * Defensive Speed Factor (1.30))                      733.69


Offensive BV Calculation Breakdown
________________________________________________________________________________
Heat Efficiency (6 + 22 - 3) = 25
Adjusted Weapon BV Total WBV                                              398.50
    -> Snub-Nose PPC + PPC Capacitor                                      252.00
    -> ER Medium Laser                                                     62.00
    -> ER Medium Laser                                                     62.00
    -> MML-5                                                               22.50
Non-Heat Equipment Total NHBV                                              12.00
    -> Improved C3 Computer                                                 0.00
    -> @ MML-5 (LRM)                                                        6.00
    -> @ MML-5 (SRM)                                                        6.00
Excessive Ammunition Penalty                                                0.00
Mech Tonnage Bonus                                                         55.00
Subtotal (WBV + NHBV - Excessive Ammo + Tonnage Bonus)                    465.50
Offensive Speed Factor Breakdown:
    Adjusted Running MP (8) + ( Adjusted Jumping MP (6) / 2 ) - 5 = 6.00
    6.00 / 10 + 1 = 1.600
    1.60 ^ 1.2 = 1.76 (rounded off to two digits)
Total OBV (Subtotal * Offensive Speed Factor (1.76))                      819.28


Total Battle Value (DBV + OBV, round off)                                  1,553

The record sheet says 1557, but I get 1553. The discrepancy between the MUL and the sheet is perhaps using a previous sheet, or an incorrect MM file (MM shows 1517, but the armor is incorrect).

edit
Fixed a number, oops. Like, the most important number. Smooth!
/edit
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 06 April 2016, 23:24:36
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1197/gladiator-keller

According to RS3075u-AoW, page 100, this should be called the GLD-1R Gladiator (Keller).

Also, the BV should be 1153
The record sheet says 1557, but I get 1553. The discrepancy between the MUL and the sheet is perhaps using a previous sheet, or an incorrect MM file (MM shows 1517, but the armor is incorrect).
1,553 is correct, entry updated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 07 April 2016, 07:51:55
Legionnaire 2D (And other variants) are using the art from 2X1 Muse Fire variant.

Should be using the art from TRO: 3075

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1863/legionnaire-lgn-2d
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 07 April 2016, 11:38:32
I see that the ASN-21 has IF0* and the ASN-101 doesn't, is there a reason for that?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/127/assassin-asn-21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/126/assassin-asn-101

?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 07 April 2016, 12:16:50
Legionnaire images fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 07 April 2016, 12:29:39
?

It needs to be changed, it hasn't yet. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 April 2016, 13:53:26
dunno if this is an intentional omission or not

the clan Battle Cobra omni has a <base> entry. The ComStar-adapted IS BTL-C-2O chassis does not.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 07 April 2016, 14:01:05
RFL-3N Rifleman "Legend Killer"
RFL-3N Rifleman "Legend Killer 2"
RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II "Legend Killer"

whose RS are  on pages 117-119 of the 3055U RS Print book are missing from the MUL
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 19 April 2016, 22:48:12
The MUL currently prints built forces with BVs in the force list, but no PVs.  Could we please have the force PV total back on the first page?  It was incredibly helpful. O:-)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 April 2016, 22:37:55
When searching for the sub unit 'LAM', only the following units show up

Pwwka
Yurei
Waneta
Screamer

the Wasp, Stinger, and Shadow Hawk LAMs do no appear.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 April 2016, 23:04:55
Uncheck the only show units with BV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 April 2016, 23:38:44
Uncheck the only show units with BV

wow. nice work by me. sorry about that
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 April 2016, 18:23:44
The Mad Cat Mk II 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6850/mad-cat-mk-ii-4) has a Light Active Probe on its record sheet, but the MUL card lacks both LRPB and RCN.  Recommend adding LPRB and RCN to the card, and recalculating PV as necessary.


Xotl: Done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 25 April 2016, 15:42:47
The the Hi-Scout carrier has a drone bay to carry the drones before launching them into battle. It has the bay listed on it's card, but the drones do not have the cargo ability that allows them to technically be carried.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1530/hi-scout-drone-napfind

Needs CAR2

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1531/hi-scout-drone-pathtrak

Needs CAR3
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 April 2016, 16:27:29
DCC (Drone Carrier) can carry units with DRO (Drones).  CAR is for Infantry, to be carried with IT (infantry transport).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 26 April 2016, 14:57:42
Conventional SRM infantry are able to equip inferno munitions (TW Pg. 42).

Should they gain the HT special? Or should they have the SRM special?

And I still think conventional infantry needs art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 19:51:04
Found a couple of issues with the AlphaStrike conversion of the Hellbringer (Loki)... possibly a discrepancy that wasn't "recomputed" from the recent errata regarding Heat Modified Damage (posted Here (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=40232.msg1117187#msg1117187))

Hellbringer (Loki) Prime (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1929/loki-hellbringer-prime):
OVL should be omitted (based on the following:)
Long Range Damage should be "4"
. Unmodified Base Damage = 3.3
. . 2x ERPPC = 3.0 damage
. . . x1.1 Targeting Computer = 3.3 Unmodified Base Damage
. Total Heat @ Long Range = 33
. . Weapon Heat = 30, AMS Heat = 1, Engine Heat = 2;
. 3.3 x 26 (DHS) / (33-4) = 29.5862
. . 3.3 - 2.95 = 0.341 ~ less than 1 -->  Use Unmodified Base Damage, round normal (Up)
PV should be adjusted accordingly (decrease in OVL cost, increase in Long Range Damage = roughly 41 PV)
Role: Currently "Striker" though I Recommend changing to "Sniper" due to damage profile and Defensive Equipment (ECM, AMS)

Hellbringer [Loki] A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1923/loki-hellbringer-a):
Long Range Damage should = 4
. 3.65 = Unmodified Base Damage @Long
. . 1x UAC5 (100% damage) = 0.75 damage, 2 Heat
. . 2x ERLarge = 2.0 damage, 24 Heat
. . 1x LRM20 (75% damage) = 0.9 damage, 6 Heat
. Total Heat @ Long Range = 34
. . Weapon Heat = 32, Engine Heat = 2
. 3.65 x 26 DHS / (34 - 4) = 3.1633
. . 3.65 - 3.163. = 0.48667 ~ less than 1 --> use Unmodified Base Damage, round normal (up)

Hellbringer (Loki) [E] (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1927/loki-hellbringer-e):
OVL should be omitted (based on the following:)
**ALL** Range Damage Values should be "4"
. Unmodified Base Damage = 3.8
. . HAG20 = 4 heat, 1.328/1.2/1.2
. . 2x ERLarge = 24 heat, 2.0/2.0/2.0
. . LRM10 = 4 heat, 0.6/0.6/0.6; IF1
. Total Heat @ Each Range = 39
. . Weapon Heat = 34, Jump Heat = 3 (minimum);
. 3.8 x 26 (DHS) / (39-4) = 2.9939
. . 3.8 - 2.9939 = 0.80606 ~ less than 1 -->  Use Unmodified Base Damage, round normal (Up)
PV should be adjust accordingly (I have around 36 PV)

Other variants may require attention.  These few were just what I've done to confirm a pattern. (sorry in advance for the headache)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 19:55:35
You round before doing the check for 1.  Without hear, the long range would be 4.  With heat, it would be 3.  Thus it gets OVL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 20:24:46
You round before doing the check for 1.  Without hear, the long range would be 4.  With heat, it would be 3.  Thus it gets OVL.

...That's not how I've been reading the errata.  Rounding has been done after determining final modified damage values, and the difference between the two values must exceed "1" in order to receive an Overheat Value [at any range].  Otherwise, no Overheat?

Plus-- the "Hellbringer (Loki) Prime" should not be getting an OVL value of 3 ...it only hits with the 2 ERPPCs at that range.  Max Damage at Long should be 4, and not 5.
***EDIT***(It *should* have an OV3 from its other weapon systems at Short and Medium Ranges; just not a different value and bonus damage at Long Range)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 20:41:31
I wrote the rule, so I know the intent.  If you think there's a better way to word it, I'm open to exceptions.  But as for the intent, I'm certain on that one.

OV is a single value.  It's based on medium range.  If a unit has OVL, it uses the OV value as calculated by the medium range.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 21:12:50
I wrote the rule, so I know the intent.  If you think there's a better way to word it, I'm open to exceptions.  But as for the intent, I'm certain on that one.

OV is a single value.  It's based on medium range.  If a unit has OVL, it uses the OV value as calculated by the medium range.

I apologize in advance if you felt offended - it was not my intent (nor will it ever be).

I believe the initial calculation on the MUL was done pre-errata as indicated, and that, now that we are calculating Long-Range Overheat differently and separately, the errata takes precedence and the values on the MUL should be changed.  (reasons posted in my initial post upthread).

As for how *I* would reword/calculate for Modified Heat? ...Where is the best place to post this (I know this is not the thread)  **edit: figured it out**
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 21:31:34
The stats are post errata.  Without heat, it would do 4 damage at long range.  With heat, it does 3.  This it gets long range 3 and OVL.  There is no OVL value.  There is only an OV.  It's calculated at medium range.  OV is 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 27 April 2016, 22:34:17
GoldBishop:  The part where you check for missing damage happens after all rounding.

Without heat: 4 damage at long range.
With heat: 3 damage at long range.

There is a difference between those numbers, therefore the unit gets OVL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 22:37:20
Currently, the Long Range value of my focus (Hellbringer-Prime)is "2"... which is 2 points below the potential/maximum damage value we have both just calculated (as "4")

Regardless of how we reached our values, with OV3 coming from Medium range affecting the OVL, the unit card is still sporting the wrong value:
Long Range: 2, +3 OV = 5 potential max damage.

The Hellbringer-Prime needs to be updated.  The question is: how?  I'll PM you my Heat Calc info instead of hashing things out here.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 22:50:30
I understand what your issue is, but the way you want it to work is not how it works, and not something I (or anybody else on the MUL team) can change.  OV is a single value based on medium range.  The long range damage values don't affect the OV value.  The decision was made that OV would be a single value, and the Hellbringer being able to get OV3 at long range with its OVL was deemed acceptable collateral damage. 
Your welcome to propose/discuss other opinions or house rules elsewhere in the forums, but this isn't a MUL issue.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 22:51:43
GoldBishop:  The part where you check for missing damage happens after all rounding.

Without heat: 4 damage at long range.
With heat: 3 damage at long range.

There is a difference between those numbers, therefore the unit gets OVL.

See, that's just it.  If I'm reading the Errata(s) right, there is No Rounding until the values are compared/attained.
Therefore, I get the following...
. Without Heat: Unmodified Damage = 3.3   [Do Not Round]
. With Heat: Modified Damage = 2.985  [Do Not Round]
. Difference = 0.314, which is < 1  [Disqualified from OVL]
. Long Range Damage = UnmodifiedDamage (Round Up), or 3.3 ~ 4

What makes the most sense to me is that "rounding" comes when determining final values... .  I'm really not trying to stir the pot here, guys... but there's no way my Loki Prime deals 5 damage at Long. 

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 27 April 2016, 22:53:10
See, that's just it.  If I'm reading the Errata(s) right

You're not.  nckestrel wrote it and has already said that in this thread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 23:00:31
I'm taking it to PM.  Sorry for the fuss, fellas.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 27 April 2016, 23:10:38
I'm taking it to PM.  Sorry for the fuss, fellas.

Please don't.  It's my responsibility to ensure that errata is readily understood by readers.  If it's unclear, it needs to be clarified, regardless of original intent.

I'll take a look at the wording and see if we can sharpen it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 23:29:16
As Xotl said, no need to apologize.  We're just trying to clarify where the issue is.  It's not the Hellbringer, it's as intended.  If the wording of the OVL calculation isn't clear enough, that can be worked on.  (The conversion process is a pain to keep everything clear).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 April 2016, 01:13:29
I don't like stepping on toes - and it seemed like I was doing that (with the defensive posts countering and counter-countering).  I have full confidence we're all on the same side of trying to find balance and fairness.  I'm also seeing that this discussion doesn't belong on the errata thread, respectfully.
...

After writing a heap (still pending), I think I might have found something... so, please... forgive me for the long post

I have NOT been Rounding the "initial Unmodified Damage" 
I have not seen an instruction to perform such immediate rounding (as of 11pm CST, 27 April 2016). (posting for clarity, not trying to be snide) ...the values I have calculated (and saved) are as raw numbers.

The Errata says to "use the Unmodified Damage value" to find the Heat Modified Value. I believe this is where the errors are popping up on my end.

For my Example: the Hellbringer (Prime) has a Long-Range unmodified damage value of 3.3 (2 ERPPCs = 3.0 damage, x1.1 for Targeting Computer)  Its heat at this range is 33 (30 weapon, 1 AMS, 2 Movement)
With only 13 DHS to dissipate the heat, I have 26 Disp, or a Long Range Heat Modifier = 26/(33-4) or 0.89655~

Currently, the Hellbringer's Unmodified Long Range Damage is "3.3".  I have not rounded this value to 4 because it is not the Final Damage Value (...yet!).

The way it has been explained to me (in the previous posts), I should be Rounding the initial value (3.3), and then multiply the base un-rounded value (3.3) to find the Heat-Modified Value - then take the difference as the Overheat Value (if any):
3.3 -> 4  [new Unmodified Damage]
3.3 x 0.89655 = 2.95862~ (Heat Modified)
4 - 2.95862 = 1.04138
...in my eyes, this is what you guys are telling me.  "Long Range Damage" = 3 , "OVL" = Yes, (1) (for now at Long)

I believe the "error" I'm experiencing... is in clarity of the "un-Rounded"  Shouldn't we be using the same base number when applying the Heat Modifier?
In this example, the difference is a staggering 0.7...

Calculating as explained to me first, with a twist: Rounding all Values immediately, then multiplying and Round again the values at Range by the Heat Modifier:
3.3 -> 4                            [rounding Unmodified Damage Value]
4 x 0.89655 = 3.58262    [Multiplying Rounded Unmodified Damage Value by Heat Modifier]
4 - 3.58262 = 0.41738    [Difference from Unmodified and Modified]
...Since 0.41738 is less than 1, (per the errata)...
   "Long Range Damage" = 4
   "OVL" = "No"

Seems reasonable.  Still dealing 4 damage at long, so no real issue.

Now... if I were to go back to how I was doing it ...without rounding:
3.3 x 0.89655 = 2.95862~       [Unmodified Long Range Damage]
3.3 - 2.95862 = 0.341~           [Difference between the Unmodified and Modified]
...Again, this value is less than 1, (per the errata) so now that the "Unmodified" value becomes the Long Range Damage value, it's time to round up (nearest whole):
  "Long Range Damage" = 3.3 -> 4,
  "OVL = No"


...Granted, I have not tested this method on other units - just the Loki so far - I believe my method provides values "closer" to the feel of their Classic/TotalWarfare counterparts.  The Hellbringer Prime doesn't really overheat that much in Classic, so there's little reason (in my opinion) that it should get to deal a whooping 50 damage in AlphaStrike when it's only capable of 30; leaving it "as is" just felt wrong so I made it my mission to try and fix it. (and yes, this is an opinion.  Sorry.  Again.)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 April 2016, 06:52:29
Unmodified in the OVL calculation is supposed to be meaning unmodified by heat.  But it should go through the entire rest of the process to come up with a final damage value, then compare to the results with heat modification.
So perhaps "non-heat modified final damage value" and "heat modified final damage value" should be the wording of what we are comparing to check for OVL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 April 2016, 11:51:57
...
So perhaps "non-heat modified final damage value" and "heat modified final damage value" should be the wording of what we are comparing to check for OVL?

No.  "non-heat final damage value", sounds too ...final... to me.

I think it should instead be "Initial Damage Value" (after all, we just finished summing damage at a particular range bracket)

However... shouldn't we wait to round until after we modify for heat?

Otherwise, we are just comparing a rounded (up) value to it's non-rounded value... which seems awfully more abstract than normal.
{in my example above... the difference between 3.3 and 4 is 0.7... which is more than enough to "push" a smaller value over the threshold into Overheat territory}
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 April 2016, 12:00:48
final damage value is after rounding.  That's the point of using that term.  It's final.

Why final?  Because it's the results that matters.  If the hypothetical unit's long range damage is not reduced by heat (the one that it will actually use in the game), then it does not get OVL.  You can't not be penalized by heat and get the OVL.  The only way to know if it's penalized by its heat (at long range), is to do the entire calculation and arrive at the final values for long range, without heat modification and with heat modification.  If there is a difference in what the final value would be, then you get OVL. 

Hellbringer, ignoring heat, would be a 4 at long range.  Hellbringer, with heat, would be a 3.  So it is penalized by its heat, so it gets OVL. Intermediate steps are meaningless, only what the final damage values would be have any meaning. for example, if it were 4.0 without heat and rounding to the final damage value, and 3.1 with heat, that's a 0.9 difference.   It doesn't matter, because the actual result is 4 and 4.  My example, regardless of intermediate steps, does not have it's actual AS stats affected by the heat.  So it can't have OVL.

EDIT: And a reminder, we're trying to figure out how to make the wording more clear on what it is (the current intent), not change it to something else (different intent).  If you want to discuss your opinion on what it should be, that discussion should go elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 April 2016, 14:00:13
Quote from: AlphaStrike Companion p.115, w/ Errata
Starting at the 3rd paragraph
To begin, find the unit’s maximum heat output. This is the heat generated by firing all weapons, including defensive equipment such as anti-missile systems, and the special-case heat rules described further below. ’Mech units must also add the maximum heat generation possible for their most heat-intensive movement mode. This added movement heat is +2 if the unit is a BattleMech that lacks jump jets, or +1 per 2 inches of jumping Move if the unit is a BattleMech or IndustrialMech that has jump jets (to a minimum of +3 heat for such jumping units). None of the other heat-tracking units covered by these rules (including nonjumping IndustrialMechs) add heat for their movement actions.
   Next, determine the unit’s heat dissipation rate by adding up all of the heat modifiers shown in the Heat Dissipation Table. Note that the heat modifiers for heat sinks and coolant pods are applied for each sink or pod the unit mounts, while the heat modifiers for other special equipment like the partial wing, radical heat sink system, and RISC the emergency coolant system apply only once. For example, a unit with 10 double heat sinks and a coolant pod would have a heat dissipation rate of –21 ([10 double heat sinks x –2] –1 [coolant pod] = –21).

No Rounding indicated.

Quote from: Current errata
**Long-Range Weapons: The above heat-modification process applies to all heat-generating units for attacks made in the Short and Medium range brackets. If the unit can deliver damage at Long range (or better), a separate Long-range heat output must also be calculated. This follows the standard rules for calculating a unit's heat output, except that the only weapons included are those with a Long-range damage value.
     Calculate the unit's Long-range damage value without modifying for heat, and then calculate its Long-range damage value modified using the above Long-range heat output.  If, after all rounding is applied, the heat-modified Long-range damage is lower than the unmodified Long-range damage by at least 1 point, then the unit receives the OVL (Overheat Long) special ability.  This calculation is used solely to check if the unit qualifies for the OVL special ability.  If it does qualify, the unit's actual Long-range damage value is calculated by modifying for heat using the exact same procedure and unit heat output as for the Short and Long range brackets, including weapon heat generated by weapons that cannot reach Long range.
     If the unit does not qualify for OVL, its Long-range damage value is unmodified by heat and the full damage value is used.**
[emphasis added for clarity]

Rounding indicated.

Which one is correct?  and should it apply to ALL ranges (not just Long).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 April 2016, 14:32:04
All OV and OVL checks should be using final values.  As final as final there is.  (I'm being silly, but I'm mocking the complexity of AS conversions and its use of "final" for various steps when its not really final).  The intent is you must do all the work to a final damage value.  You can't stop part way and do the comparison then.
 
p116, Determining Final Damage Values.
This defines what a Final Damage Value is.  It's after the rounding to a whole number. If you don't have a whole number, you don't have a final damage value.  That's why I suggested changing the wording to final damage values, because they have a definition, and it's after rounding.
so p115, starting at 3rd paragraph is talking pre-final damage values.  It doesn't say anything OV.  that's why it doesn't say anything about rounding. That comes later (p116).

the errata for p115 Long-Range Weapons, already specifies after all rounding, for the OVL check.  For OV and OVL checks, you need to have finished the entire calcuation(s).

p116, Calculating Overheat Value
"To find a unit’s Overheat Value, compare its maximum Alpha Strike damage at Medium range before and after it has been adjusted for heat using these rules."
This should also mention final damage values.

And then under that for Long-Range Weapons
"if this same comparison."  and then this would be referencing final damage values as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 28 April 2016, 17:09:59
This discussion makes me wonder whether or not you guys could talk to Rick Raisley about including Alpha Strike stats in his Heavy Metal programs?

The reason I ask is because he did make calculations for Battleforce 2 integral to the software, so the work might already be halfway completed.

Also, yay or nay on SRM infantry being able to carry inferno munitions in AS? If so, how do we note that on the card?

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 28 April 2016, 19:46:54
The MUL Force Builder doesn't seem to be taking into account skill increases.  All of my cards are printing as the default 4, regardless of how I alter the skills in the list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 05 May 2016, 22:52:44
Scapha "I" Variant

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6667/scapha-hovertank-i
[TRO3145_RotS p.21]

This unit should also have the "TAG" Special (thanks to it's C3M)

However, as this equipment is listed to be mounted in a "Body" location, it should not be added to the turret "TUR" specials.


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 07 May 2016, 16:58:08
First of all I would like to say a big thank you to the MUL guys for publishing the availability lists for TR3145RoTS!

Now for the errata business .

The Quirinius and the Celerity 04-R and 05-X don't have  faction availability
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 07 May 2016, 19:18:06
That is intentional for the moment. They would be Comstar. I'm just trying to avoid break several internal processes until we are closer to having complete data in for the later eras.


Sorry for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 07 May 2016, 21:07:56
The Galleon 200 (RL) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1180/galleon-light-tank-gal-200-rl) is listed as a Sniper despite doing exactly zero damage at Long range.  And... somehow has TUR1/0*/- despite having a flat 0 (without the star) at Medium.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 08 May 2016, 00:11:58
First of all I would like to say a big thank you to the MUL guys for publishing the availability lists for TR3145RoTS!

This makes me think I should ask, would it be possible for you to post an announcement on the page's news blurb whenever you add a new source to the MUL?

Now that I've gone and printed a card of every variant of every unit I own, I'd like to be informed when new variants are added, so that I can keep my cards current.

It would also help us errata checkers to know when there are a fresh bunch of files to go over.

Thanks

P.S. Still wondering about those inferno SRM infantry for AS.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 08 May 2016, 11:59:51
That depends upon what you want. Units get added in different stages. Lately I have been adding the base info when I finally get the book. Someone else has been doing the AS stats sometime later.

When we do faction data for a new era, we will make a big announcement. Minor updates for faction data probably aren't worth filling the new feed that the important stuff gets lost in a wall of words.

Wouldn't inferno infantry just be srm infantry that use alternative ammo?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 May 2016, 12:03:20
Wouldn't inferno infantry just be srm infantry that use alternative ammo?

No SRM special on SRM infantry :(
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 08 May 2016, 12:08:49
I guess it didn't make the threshold which means heat probably wouldn't make it either.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 May 2016, 12:18:10
I suppose you could create custom cards and give the HT1/1 ability.  Flamer infantry got the HT special afterall in the conversion process.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 08 May 2016, 16:49:01
That depends upon what you want. Units get added in different stages. Lately I have been adding the base info when I finally get the book. Someone else has been doing the AS stats sometime later.

What I would want would be once all the units from a new source are added, say Operational Turning Points: Alshain or Record Sheets 3175: Ununabridged, a simple notice is put up on the news blurb so that we see it when we go to the front page.

That way we can go to the "sources" tab, look at the units, and make cards or point out corrections.

And if the SRM infantry can do 1 damage, shouldn't they be able to do 1 HT? Doesn't make much sense otherwise.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 08 May 2016, 17:08:19
In Alpha Strike, the infantry do not use any alternative munitions, there's no exception given for Infernos and SRM infantry. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 08 May 2016, 23:51:26
The Galleon 200 (RL) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1180/galleon-light-tank-gal-200-rl) is listed as a Sniper despite doing exactly zero damage at Long range.  And... somehow has TUR1/0*/- despite having a flat 0 (without the star) at Medium.

I went through a did the weapon conversions on this one.  I came up with a damage profile of 1/0*/0*.  I also found out that the Companion does not have an entry for the Rocket Launcher (PP) found on the Galleon in question.  However, even if it does modify the damage values, none of the final values would change (they ended up being 0.88/0.48/0.24 before rounding).  The TUR values should not change.

Due to the nature of the weapon system in question and the vehicle mounting them, I suggest changing the role to "Brawler", and raising the PV by 3 points to accompany the change from 0 to 0* on the Medium and Long range entries.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 May 2016, 11:43:40
There was an issue when RS: Operation Klondike was entered where we couldn't set 0* as a damage value.  I just went through and edited a bunch of the combat vees and lighter 'mechs from that book to add the 0*s back.  PVs for those were also updated.
GAL-200 (RL) was set to Scout.
Griffin 2N (and 2N2) was set to Skirmisher.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 09 May 2016, 13:15:28
That is intentional for the moment. They would be Comstar. I'm just trying to avoid break several internal processes until we are closer to having complete data in for the later eras.


Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thank you for the answer but what about the Quirinius?
Unlike the Celerity it has no connection to Comstar and we can readily infer it's faction availability from the text:
"It was produced on Terra and found ready markets
in the former Free Worlds League territories.
Many mercenaries of the early thirty-second
century also accept Quirinus suits in lieu of
payment from its many users."
I guess it means Republic, former FWL states and mercenaries
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 09 May 2016, 16:21:58
Hmm. I seemed to have missed those. Repub, merc, and three of the fwl states. I'll get them in tonight. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 09 May 2016, 22:29:52
The Wolverine-7K  (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3575/wolverine-wvr-7k) doesn't have the Draconis Combine on its availability list.  The lore in TRO:3050 places this model's production at Marduk. It'd be rather strange, IMO, that the mech be built solely for export.

Is the availability for that model in the MUL in error, or correct?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 10 May 2016, 14:08:40
Phalanx D lists availability as former FWL. According to RS:3145NTNU "This support variant is immensely popular
in Republic forces, and is even surfacing in Oriente infantry formations."
I believe that the Republic of the Sphere should be added to the faction availability.

Spider 10K is listed as a RotS design but the ballistic reinforced and K designation make me believe it's a Kuritan design (and the design uses  RE lasers that the DC began salvaging as with the Nyx 110)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 10 May 2016, 20:30:16
Phalanx D and Spider 10K fixed. Data entry issue on my end. Sorry about that.

Wolverine 7K we will discuss internally. It wouldn't be the first mech to be made solely for export and it has been sans Kurita for a long time. We'll see what our internal discussion yields.

Edit: Wolverine is DC for clan invasion and civil war eras. The remainders were all converted by the Jihad.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 11 May 2016, 01:44:58
There are some entries that I can't be sure but I believe might be in error:
Vedette V9 is listed as Hell Horse, Wolf and Jade Falcon design but should be Lyran.
The reasoning is that it's an IS tech design and that the V7 is a Lyran design (used by the LC FS RotS). The text implies
that this design is a successor to the V7 "While swapping its bombast laser for a Gauss rifle
increased range and effectiveness,".

griffin 6S2 is listed as a LC and DC design but I think  FS should be added (perhaps instead of DC)
This design seems to be a modification of the Griffin 6S which was produced by the FS and LC, Unlike the DC which had produced the 1DS and later the  5K. Also this
mech uses a boosted C3 slave which seems to be rather common in FS designs of this era.

Gallant 10-0 should be added to the FS. This mech uses RE lasers that were debuted by the FS in 3130 and the mech was introduced in 3130.
Also the FS produces the chassis (along with the LC and the RotS). It's possible the technology has spread pretty quickly but it seems to me a bit odd

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 May 2016, 08:10:46
We'll take a look.

The key to the vedette is when arcturus fell to the wolves and if there was enough time to build up a sizeable quantity before production switched to the clans.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 11 May 2016, 13:04:43
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mul-images/BattleMechs/Scorpion.jpg

Is blank?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 May 2016, 13:43:39
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mul-images/BattleMechs/Scorpion.jpg

Is blank?

Case sensitivity....the Scorpions should be all fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 May 2016, 22:23:22
Hussar2: fixed with some light tweaking.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 11 May 2016, 22:26:11
The Galleon 102, 103, and 104 do not have images.  They should use the image found in TRO3058U and RS3058Uu-I.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 May 2016, 22:38:09
Fixed. Sadly it only needed the extension to be changed from jpg to JPG. I hate to think how many other case sensitive issues we have.

Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 12 May 2016, 22:00:09
Looks like the Defiance DFN-3S has the same problem, though the DFN-3C and -3T are okay. Also, the three Defiance models have FLK0/0/1; is that correct? They can only make special FLK attacks at L range?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 12 May 2016, 22:01:47
That sounds like it might be a heat and/or minimum range issue, though it's... bizarre, to say the least, that they don't even get 0*.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 12 May 2016, 22:03:09
That sounds like it might be a heat and/or minimum range issue, though it's... bizarre, to say the least, that they don't even get 0*.

I can't get at my books to check right now, so that's why I'm dumping it in your lap. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 12 May 2016, 22:18:42
I can't get at my books to check right now, so that's why I'm dumping it in your lap. Enjoy!

I think that it's because FLK damage is dealt even on a standard attack if conditions are met, and subject to OV.  The normal LB-10X damage of 0.6 is reduced by heat to 0.3 (24 dissipation, 52 maximum heat).  It's possible that the conversion to 0* was simply missed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 13 May 2016, 15:47:59
I've been haunting this thread for awhile, ever since I printed up my AS cards, and the reason was that this is the only place I know of that I can find info on any changes made to the AS cards.

So rather than keep doing that (not that you guys aren't great) but I now know what I want for the MUL site.

An AS card change log.

I would like one of the tabs at the top of the page to be a list of whenever a card for AS has been updated in any way.

I'm not talking about things like fixing broken pictures, but I am talking about whenever a card is added or has anything updated or corrected.

I have almost 2000 AS cards printed now and I would like to be able to have an easy reference point for keeping them current.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 21 May 2016, 10:45:09
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/590/chippewa-iic-standard

Image displayed for the Chippewa IIC is that of the Chippewa. Replace with correct image from Era Digest: Golden Century.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 27 May 2016, 01:34:55
Kanga Medium Hovertank (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1745/kanga-medium-hovertank-standard) should show 12"j on its AS card not 8"j

Per TRO 3050u (also on its RS) the TW movement for the Kanga is 8/12/6
Unless I missed something anyway...


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Question on 27 May 2016, 04:38:09
the Gnome BA is listed as being produced in 3056 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1216/), yet it's advanced SRM-2 launcher isn't available till 3058, making the unit illegal...does this need an errata to the dates?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 27 May 2016, 05:25:33
Its possible the intro for the srm has changed in errata or in IO. There were a lot of intro date changes in IO such as the Long Tom artillery. Do you have a copy of IO to double check that date?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 27 May 2016, 05:31:46
Not that I could find.

Edit: I checked the original source for the Gnome BA, Field Manual: Crusader Clans. That was back when battle armor was still being constructed by fiat, rather than a unified design system, and many suits included some piece of original equipment. Anyway, the FM says 3056 for the introduction of the Gnome with its special missile launcher. The MUL is correct, and errata should be issued for TechManual or anywhere else the Advanced SRM is listed as being introduced in 3058.

...I mean, that's my opinion from what I could find on the subject. I can't make the ruling, I'm not a MUL member or developer. :-[
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 30 May 2016, 00:04:18
Both Foot Ballistic Rifle Hastati V, 513th Infantry Regiment (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1141/foot-ballistic-rifle-hastati-v-513th-infantry-regiment) and Motorized MG Galatean Support Wheels (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2234/motorized-mg-galatean-support-wheels) are missing an AS card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jymset on 30 May 2016, 01:48:00
Not that I could find.

Edit: I checked the original source for the Gnome BA, Field Manual: Crusader Clans. That was back when battle armor was still being constructed by fiat, rather than a unified design system, and many suits included some piece of original equipment. Anyway, the FM says 3056 for the introduction of the Gnome with its special missile launcher. The MUL is correct, and errata should be issued for TechManual or anywhere else the Advanced SRM is listed as being introduced in 3058.

...I mean, that's my opinion from what I could find on the subject. I can't make the ruling, I'm not a MUL member or developer. :-[

I, for one, am in full agreement. O0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RoundTop on 30 May 2016, 15:42:07
Case sensitivity on MUL is likely due to running Apache for the back-end. by default it uses the unix model of case sensitivity.

add this to httpd.conf to turn on case insensitivity (if that is the problem). Note: you must have the mod_speling module already, but it is included by default with apache.

<IfModule mod_speling.c>
CheckSpelling On
CheckCaseOnly On
</IfModule>
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 31 May 2016, 03:06:02
I'd like to make an enhancement request.  I'd like to have the ability to export the results of a filtered unit search to a file in .csv format or something similar.  When I'm doing force building I'm not always online.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 31 May 2016, 03:15:13
The HPPC and LRM variants of the Brutus Assault tank appear to have incorrect values for their TUR special on their AS cards. 

The Brutus Assault Tank (LRM) has a turret value of TUR(2/3/2) and should be (if I'm doing this right) of TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 2 x LRM 20 in the turret each with more than 10 rounds of ammo.

The Brutus Assault Tank (HPPC) has a turret value of TUR(2/2/2) and should be TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 1 x LRM 20 with more than 10 rounds of ammo and 1 x HPPC in the turret.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 31 May 2016, 07:36:54
I'd like to make an enhancement request.  I'd like to have the ability to export the results of a filtered unit search to a file in .csv format or something similar.

Copy - paste works. Just remember to grab the header so it brings along the columns. I do a fair amount of work that way.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 June 2016, 13:59:48
The Saroyan Jump Bomber's role seems wrong. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6472/saroyan-jump-bomber-standard
It is listed as Fast Dogfighter, but given the unit's capabilities (well, lack of them), it doesn't seem fitting. Attack Fighter (despite its speed criteria being far lower) or Fire Support would be more fitting for its role as pure ground-attack aircraft.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pakishi on 11 June 2016, 19:44:23
MUL, AS Force Builder, and permission to print.

I print all my stuff at my local office depot, which I encounter no issues, but a friend is getting his AS Force Builder printouts rejected by the store manager since it does't have a permission to reproduce for personal use labelled on it.

Is there something he can point to to get past this issue?

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 11 June 2016, 21:39:30
Baleena Passenger Submarine (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3778/baleena-passenger-submarine-standard) listed as 0 tons, should be 200 tons
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 June 2016, 22:33:14
Baleena Passenger Submarine (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3778/baleena-passenger-submarine-standard) listed as 0 tons, should be 200 tons
Fixed. It was entered as 0.2 tons for some reason.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 14 June 2016, 19:46:35
It seems Loki Mk II has wrong structure value for its AS cards. Both Ebon Jaguar and Hellbringer have 4 but Loki II has only 3, even though they're all same weight and use Clan XL engine, and there should not be anything else that reduces the value in Loki II.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6277/loki-mk-ii-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6278/loki-mk-ii-a
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6279/loki-mk-ii-b


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 19 June 2016, 23:33:53
I was looking at the entry for the Tiger T-12 and availability has it as extinct yet the written description suggests that it was put into limited production across the IS during the succession wars?

Which is correct?

Regards

Mutantsix
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: 00Dawg on 25 June 2016, 12:55:08
Marauder II, specifically the MAD-5A

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a)

It's on the FedCom RAT in Era Report 3052 and Era Report 3062, so it looks like availability needs to be adjusted.
The fluff in the original TRO:3050 clearly indicates sales to at least one merc unit as well.

I'm not sure if the 5B or 5C models might be impacted.

ETA:  It's in the FM: Mercs RAT as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 25 June 2016, 13:07:27
Marauder II, specifically the MAD-5A

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a)

It's on the FedCom RAT in Era Report 3052 and Era Report 3062, so it looks like availability needs to be adjusted.

That might be more of an error in the RATs, unless wider distribution was deliberately intended.

Quote
The fluff in the original TRO:3050 clearly indicates sales to at least one merc unit as well.

That would be covered by the newer Common Allies/Enemies rules in Combat Manual: Mercenaries; custom units can pay points to have the Dragoons as an Ally, giving them access to Dragoons-specific machines. The MUL takes into account that handfuls of specific units may be found outside of their original factions, but unless it's a substantial number or results in new variants, then the capturing faction is not listed. Otherwise, given how widely 'Mechs end up distributed (at least in tiny numbers), listing factions at all would be pointless.

For a very specific example, look at the Capellan Death Commandos. They have the special rule that they can use any Inner Sphere 'Mech, from any faction, by choice. Does that mean that every 'Mech should have "Liao" as a listed faction?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 27 June 2016, 02:21:48
Reporting a problem with the MUL:

When you hit the button to download a created force, the compiled .pdf does not include the last skill toggle you made unless it was not the last thing you did prior to hitting the download button.

In other words, if the last unit you add to your force is not a skill 4, the only way to make it show up as the skill you want on the compiled .pdf is to then add and remove a pointless extra unit before compiling.

EDIT: messing around with it further has revealed that it is ignoring ALL skill toggles after the last unit that was added or removed.  If you add every unit in your list, and then go in and put in all the skills, the pdf will still print everyone at skill 4 if you don't add and remove another unit just before compiling.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 03 July 2016, 04:36:23
Problem/Question: The BLR-1C BattleMaster is mentioned in canon but does not show up in the MUL.

Explicitly named the BLR-1C twice, it features in the novel Heir to the Dragon as Theodore Kurita's ComStar-supplied command 'Mech in chapters 52 and 65, FASA edition pp. 251-251 & 306-311= Roc edition pp. 287-289 & 346-351.
It is explicitly said this 'Mech came unmodified and without downgrades, i.e. the one in the novel is a factory model in original configuration. In battle it is described to use one (implicitly single) arm-mounted Donal PPC, a Holly SRM-6 launcher, DHS, paired rear-defense lasers, and it explicitly does not have machine guns.

The BLR-2C may have been meant to be this 'Mech, but it bears a wrong alphanumerical designation (and its AMS and BAP aren't mentioned in the novel).

There is a BLR-1Gc variant with a "double cockpit" mentioned in TRO:3075 that seems to be identical to the BLR-1C as described in the novel, and Sarna posits these may be the same model.

Any new insights? I was looking for the BLR-1C's intro date for a story when I found this problem.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 03 July 2016, 10:27:52
We'll look at it, but Ask The Writers or (in this case) Ask the Lead Devs might give you a better chance at getting answers than here.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: JadedFalcon on 10 July 2016, 21:09:05
Reporting a problem with the MUL:

When you hit the button to download a created force, the compiled .pdf does not include the last skill toggle you made unless it was not the last thing you did prior to hitting the download button.

In other words, if the last unit you add to your force is not a skill 4, the only way to make it show up as the skill you want on the compiled .pdf is to then add and remove a pointless extra unit before compiling.

EDIT: messing around with it further has revealed that it is ignoring ALL skill toggles after the last unit that was added or removed.  If you add every unit in your list, and then go in and put in all the skills, the pdf will still print everyone at skill 4 if you don't add and remove another unit just before compiling.

Is this with or without clicking the Save button prior to clicking Print PDF? Using the Save button before exporting the PDF seems to prevent a number of issues. (At least when I've tried it.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 18 July 2016, 12:26:30
We now have rules in Campaign Operations for having large spacecraft in your forces, and availability rolls that rely on cost and number of docking collars.  Is there any chance we could have c-bill costs for dropships and jumpships (and dropship collars for jumpships in the notes?) prioritized for the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 20 July 2016, 01:42:11
The Tengu C3i currently has a minimum Short-range damage value.  It has no weapons: am I missing something, or should it have a 0 for damage?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 July 2016, 06:08:07
It can still carry an infantry rifle.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 21 July 2016, 16:01:28
The Aquila ASF (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6518/aquila-aqa-1m) lacks any URL that my computer is capable of displaying.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 July 2016, 22:51:15
Could you provide some more details? The link you posted works fine for me on both computers and mobiles. I did fix the image not appearing.

Does this link also not work?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6518
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 22 July 2016, 17:09:34
I typed URL and meant image.  Not entirely sure what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 22 July 2016, 20:41:19
The image was fixed when I was poking around.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 July 2016, 12:38:27
Ares Medium Tank (Standard) - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/109/ares-medium-tank-standard
Ares Medium Tank (Plasma)  - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/108/ares-medium-tank-plasma

Both have Type "BM"... should be "CV"

I noticed this when I went to mark off Motive crits and it had the wrong boxes to check.  (I'm assuming fixing BM to CV will also rectify the Crit table on the card)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 July 2016, 12:41:18
Thanks, fixed the Ares.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 01 August 2016, 19:08:17
All variants of the Buster HaulerMech (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7220/buster-bc-xxi-haulermech) were given artwork in Record Sheets: Vehicle Annex, IndustrialMechs & Exoskeletons that is different from the Powerman HaulerMech. See attached.

I believe the Buster XXI (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3882/buster-xxi-haulermech) and Buster BC XXI (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7220/buster-bc-xxi-haulermech) refer to the same machine. Suggest deleting Buster XXI as it does not contain the reference to the RS book, nor much other information.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 03 August 2016, 01:31:06
Bump.

The HPPC and LRM variants of the Brutus Assault tank appear to have incorrect values for their TUR special on their AS cards. 

The Brutus Assault Tank (LRM) has a turret value of TUR(2/3/2) and should be (if I'm doing this right) of TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 2 x LRM 20 in the turret each with more than 10 rounds of ammo.

The Brutus Assault Tank (HPPC) has a turret value of TUR(2/2/2) and should be TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 1 x LRM 20 with more than 10 rounds of ammo and 1 x HPPC in the turret.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Greyhind on 06 August 2016, 10:08:39
I like and use the BV Piloting/Gunnery charts but if I could request a feature, would it be possible to label the two axis as piloting and gunnery? At the moment they're useful but not user-friendly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2016, 18:12:14
I like and use the BV Piloting/Gunnery charts but if I could request a feature, would it be possible to label the two axis as piloting and gunnery? At the moment they're useful but not user-friendly.

agreed, i forget which axis is which every time i reference the chart.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 08 August 2016, 19:34:10
I added it to the to do list. I'm not sure when it will be worked on.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 August 2016, 08:24:32
Brutus HPPC and LRM fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 August 2016, 08:25:55
I added it to the to do list. I'm not sure when it will be worked on.

cool, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 10 August 2016, 17:41:40
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6636/sternensturm-stm-o-base
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6637/sternensturm-stm-o
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6638/sternensturm-stm-oa
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6639/sternensturm-stm-ob

All of these have unit types of "Aerospace-Aerospace Fighter" when they should have "Aerospace-OmniFighter"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 10 August 2016, 18:12:22
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6636/sternensturm-stm-o-base
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6637/sternensturm-stm-o
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6638/sternensturm-stm-oa
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6639/sternensturm-stm-ob

All of these have unit types of "Aerospace-Aerospace Fighter" when they should have "Aerospace-OmniFighter"


I tried to update the first two and I received the following errors (the first for the base mode, the second for the -o):

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpRequestValidationException: A potentially dangerous Request.Form value was detected from the client (Model="STM-O <Base>").

Exception Details: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 10 August 2016, 19:12:28
Woohoo! Broke the MUL! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 10 August 2016, 21:17:16
Woohoo! Broke the MUL! :)

Do you feel like a hero now?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 10 August 2016, 21:48:10
They are all changed to omnifighter. You successfully changed the first two. I did the last two.

Xtol: the error was for the log file.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 11 August 2016, 08:15:17
The Ares superheavy 'Mechs are missing the OMNI special.


Also, if I do a search for units with the OMNI AS ability I get 747 'Mechs, but if I do a search adding the "OmniMech" subtype I only get 720 units. I know the Omni QuadVees don't show up under the OmniMech subtype, but that's only 9 'Mechs. I'm not sure which are the rest. And neither search returns the Ares SH Omnis.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: OpacusVenatori on 11 August 2016, 09:17:47
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6440/shun-transport-vtol-standard

The shun transport vtol (From tro 3145 cap conf) doesn't have the STL special. It mounts stealth armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 August 2016, 10:48:02
Wantec:
I see the units in question. I'll get them updated. It also looks like the Notos C is lacking the omni special.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 August 2016, 11:08:43
Ares, Notos C, and all BattleMechs with OMNI special but not with OmniMech subtype have been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dohon on 12 August 2016, 07:55:38
I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to ask, but, when will the new artwork for the Wolverine be added for the relevant MUL entries?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 12 August 2016, 22:40:48
Zeus ZEU-9S2 seems to have REAR 1/1/- ability in its AS card even though the 'Mech does not have any rear-facing weapons.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5459/zeus-zeu-9s2
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/5459?skill=4


On the other hand, Zeus ZEU-9S seems to be missing REAR 1/1/- ability. I believe single rear-mounted Medium Pulse Laser is enough for that.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3644/zeus-zeu-9s
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/3644?skill=4
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 13 August 2016, 18:38:32
The Highlander HGN-694 is lacking introduction date but has availability for Civil War Era.
Probably should have introduction date of 3062 or 3063, considering the 'Mech is available in MechWarrior IV and other 'Mechs based on that game have similar or earlier introduction dates.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5493/highlander-hgn-694
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 14 August 2016, 00:59:34
Fast Recon Cavalry Point, 67th Battlemech Cluster, Iota Galaxy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1035/fast-recon-cavalry-point-67th-battlemech-cluster-iota-galaxy) 
...shows up in most Clan searches for infantry, has the word "Recon" in it... yet... their role is listed as "Ambusher".

Based on the role assignment found in the Companion, shouldn't they labeled either Scouts or Strikers?
They meet the speed, armor, and damage qualifiers (p.135-136), so I'm not sure if this is in error (needing update?) or that all Conventional Infantry units are forced to be "Ambusher" by default?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2016, 16:43:52
Fast Recon Cavalry Point, 67th Battlemech Cluster, Iota Galaxy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1035/fast-recon-cavalry-point-67th-battlemech-cluster-iota-galaxy) 
...shows up in most Clan searches for infantry, has the word "Recon" in it... yet... their role is listed as "Ambusher".

Based on the role assignment found in the Companion, shouldn't they labeled either Scouts or Strikers?
They meet the speed, armor, and damage qualifiers (p.135-136), so I'm not sure if this is in error (needing update?) or that all Conventional Infantry units are forced to be "Ambusher" by default?

Thanks, went through a bunch of MV10" listed as Ambushers and changed them (mostly to Strikers, some Scouts).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 14 August 2016, 19:28:45
Record sheet source for the Wolfhound IIC "Grinner" (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3570/) is listed as Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Clan and Star League.  Should be Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 14 August 2016, 20:34:11
Thanks, went through a bunch of MV10" listed as Ambushers and changed them (mostly to Strikers, some Scouts).

Aww, you didn't upgrade the IS recon infantry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2673/recon-infantry-recon-battalion-201st-pesht-assault-team-3rd-proserpina-hussars) even tho they have the 10" move.  With a short range damage value of 0* I'm not sure how they were ever classified as ambushers in the first place ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 August 2016, 21:53:15
Record sheet source for the Wolfhound IIC "Grinner" (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3570/) is listed as Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Clan and Star League.  Should be Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Inner Sphere.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2016, 21:56:19
Aww, you didn't upgrade the IS recon infantry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2673/recon-infantry-recon-battalion-201st-pesht-assault-team-3rd-proserpina-hussars) even tho they have the 10" move.  With a short range damage value of 0* I'm not sure how they were ever classified as ambushers in the first place ;)

Ambushers just need to be slow and short range (and low armor).  They don't need to do lots of damage.
But yeah, the Recon infantry should be Scouts, I thought I had gotten them already..and clearly hadn't.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Taurianspy on 18 August 2016, 08:35:59
Is there a problem with the master unit list?


Server Error in '/' Application.

The cast to value type 'Int32' failed because the materialized value is null. Either the result type's generic parameter or the query must use a nullable type.
  Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

 Exception Details: System.InvalidOperationException: The cast to value type 'Int32' failed because the materialized value is null. Either the result type's generic parameter or the query must use a nullable type.

Source Error:



Line 258:   <div class="col-sm-8 col-lg-10">
Line 259:
Line 260:      @if (Model.Units().Count == 0)
Line 261:  {
Line 262:         <p>To find units, start by entering your search terms.  The more terms you enter, the smaller the list of matching units will be.</p>
 

 Source File:  d:\home\site\wwwroot\Views\Unit\Filter.cshtml    Line:  260

Stack Trace:



[InvalidOperationException: The cast to value type 'Int32' failed because the materialized value is null. Either the result type's generic parameter or the query must use a nullable type.]
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.ErrorHandlingValueReader`1.GetValue(DbDataReader reader, Int32 ordinal) +95
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.Shaper.GetColumnValueWithErrorHandling(Int32 ordinal) +39
   lambda_method(Closure , Shaper ) +1694
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.Coordinator`1.ReadNextElement(Shaper shaper) +163
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.SimpleEnumerator.MoveNext() +97
   System.Collections.Generic.List`1..ctor(IEnumerable`1 collection) +460
   System.Linq.Enumerable.ToList(IEnumerable`1 source) +58
   MUL2.Models.UnitSearch.Units() +8776
   ASP._Page_Views_Unit_Filter_cshtml.Execute() in d:\home\site\wwwroot\Views\Unit\Filter.cshtml:260
   System.Web.WebPages.WebPageBase.ExecutePageHierarchy() +197
   System.Web.Mvc.WebViewPage.ExecutePageHierarchy() +104
   System.Web.WebPages.StartPage.RunPage() +17
   System.Web.WebPages.StartPage.ExecutePageHierarchy() +64
   System.Web.WebPages.WebPageBase.ExecutePageHierarchy(WebPageContext pageContext, TextWriter writer, WebPageRenderingBase startPage) +78
   System.Web.Mvc.RazorView.RenderView(ViewContext viewContext, TextWriter writer, Object instance) +257
   System.Web.Mvc.BuildManagerCompiledView.Render(ViewContext viewContext, TextWriter writer) +107
   System.Web.Mvc.ViewResultBase.ExecuteResult(ControllerContext context) +291
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResult(ControllerContext controllerContext, ActionResult actionResult) +13
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1a.<InvokeActionResultWithFilters>b__17() +23
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResultFilter(IResultFilter filter, ResultExecutingContext preContext, Func`1 continuation) +245
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1c.<InvokeActionResultWithFilters>b__19() +22
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResultFilter(IResultFilter filter, ResultExecutingContext preContext, Func`1 continuation) +245
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1c.<InvokeActionResultWithFilters>b__19() +22
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResultWithFilters(ControllerContext controllerContext, IList`1 filters, ActionResult actionResult) +176
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass2a.<BeginInvokeAction>b__20() +75
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass25.<BeginInvokeAction>b__22(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +99
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.AsyncControllerActionInvoker.EndInvokeAction(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +27
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1d.<BeginExecuteCore>b__18(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +14
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass4.<MakeVoidDelegate>b__3(IAsyncResult ar) +16
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.Controller.EndExecuteCore(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +36
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass4.<MakeVoidDelegate>b__3(IAsyncResult ar) +16
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.Controller.EndExecute(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +26
   System.Web.Mvc.Controller.System.Web.Mvc.Async.IAsyncController.EndExecute(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +10
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass8.<BeginProcessRequest>b__3(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +25
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass4.<MakeVoidDelegate>b__3(IAsyncResult ar) +16
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.MvcHandler.EndProcessRequest(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +28
   System.Web.Mvc.MvcHandler.System.Web.IHttpAsyncHandler.EndProcessRequest(IAsyncResult result) +9
   System.Web.CallHandlerExecutionStep.System.Web.HttpApplication.IExecutionStep.Execute() +9644037
   System.Web.HttpApplication.ExecuteStep(IExecutionStep step, Boolean& completedSynchronously) +155

 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: El Kabong on 18 August 2016, 16:28:56
^^ Seconded.
MUL throwing script errors when I try to pull anything up.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 August 2016, 21:26:39
Huh, so it ain't just me?
By the way, i go similar error in Camospecs too.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 18 August 2016, 21:33:34
It's been passed up the chain.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 19 August 2016, 15:20:47
I found a work around for the MUL problem.

If you google: Master Unit List and then the name of the unit you want to view, the link will take you there with no problem.

This only works for units, not sources.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Silent Jester on 23 August 2016, 15:20:21
Was wondering if there was any update on this Error with the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 23 August 2016, 15:56:47
No.

You'll learn about it immediately if there is.  Promise. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Punishermark on 26 August 2016, 10:56:07
Any update on fixing the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 26 August 2016, 11:05:03
Yes, it has been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 26 August 2016, 12:39:36
The second issue was just fixed this morning. If you are still having problems please let us know.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 26 August 2016, 16:59:18
Regarding the MUL hiccup...

Glad to see it back up!  For the most part, I'm able to run the search just fine.  2 problems have occurred, so just putting it out there to see if others are getting the same results I am

(1) Random Search Fail.
Sometimes, after operating a search (general, era, or faction), I can view the unit in question, click secondary links to look at other variants, go back to the previous, and close.
Sometimes... when I click on an alternate variant, it spews back the same Search Error we previously suffered.

I've been unable to duplicate the error successfully.  It happens at random times for random units.  Sometimes it doesn't happen at all, and sometimes it happens right off the bat.  I am hoping its just my IP and lame-ass upload (while the kids are streaming NetFlix on 3 different devices) and not an actual problem for the MUL.  Still, if anyone else is having an error like that, I felt I should post it...

(2) Add Function Fails to add units into AlphaStrike Force Builder.
Tested this multiple times, clicking the "Add Unit" function on the line with a unit found using the Search functions (generic Search, Era, or Faction)
The "added" units are only added to the Standard Force list, but when I select "AS Builder" from the submenu under "Force" nothing appears in the roster.

Units may still be searched and added under the AS Force Builder normally; Skill ups and Print function remains normal (or at least, pre-hiccup normal; still spits out BV table for AlphaStrike Cards)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 28 August 2016, 21:37:28
The Dasher II 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6919/dasher-ii-4) has Hardened Armor and a nominal walk speed of 7.  I think there might be an issue with the conversion here, since it probably shouldn't be able to maintain full ground speed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 01 September 2016, 17:07:43
The Koshi 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6549/koshi-3) has MASC, but this is not reflected in its MV.  MV should be 18" (14" base x 1.25 = 17.5, rounds to nearest whole number).  TMM does not change, DIR does not change, adjusted PV should remain 19 (increase of 0.5 points for movement, previous total was 18.75 thanks to the 3.5 from movement and 0.25 from LTAG.  Total comes up to 19.25, rounds down to 19).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 September 2016, 17:23:59
Koshi 3 and Dasher II 4 corrected.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 10 September 2016, 17:00:57
The Orion 1C from XTRO:Primitives vol V is missing
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 10 September 2016, 17:54:12
Several are missing. I'm still trying to finish uploading them but a sick toddler is interrupting me. I'm hoping to finish tonight and get the images in place. The Orion 1C is being trouble. I think that record is messed up somehow. That one may take a little extra time.

Edit:
Toddler with croup is asleep and the rest are entered. They should all be there except the Orion 1C. We need to see why that record is frozen.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 12 September 2016, 13:08:56
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7322/thug-thg-11ecx-jose

The Star League era Faction availability lists "Star League Regular," "Star League Royal," "Terran Hegemony," and "Unique."

However, according to the fluff in XTRO Gunslinger, this design was used by a mercenary in the employ of Amaris (p. 7).

The Star League factions should be removed, and replaced with whatever is appropriate. The Terran Hegemony listing should also probably be removed, since according to the MUL, the Hegemony stopped existing in 2767, and the date on the design is 2772.

Not really sure the "Amaris Empire' or whatever he was elected to is part of the MUL :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 September 2016, 14:42:58
I'll get the Thug fixed. Thanks.

There really wasn't a great way of dealing with an occupied Terran Hegemony. The only reason the TH got a faction eentry is to account for some of the militia units that the Star League didn't use like the Mackie and some other items that are planet specific and really not Star League like some of the civilian stuff.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 September 2016, 17:12:59
There are eight introtech mechs that were formerly listed as TBD during the early republic and are now listed as Extinct AND TBD. Unsure if this was intentional or TBD the flag wasn't removed when the change was made. All nine are also flagged as Extinct in both the Late Republic and Dark Ages.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/910/dragon-drg-2y-yoriyoshi
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2052/marauder-mad-sd-douglass
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2349/ostroc-osr-2c-michi
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4787/panther-pnt-9r-tanaka
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3036/stalker-stk-3f-jagawen
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3242/thunderbolt-tdr-5s-t-tallman
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/141/atlas-as7-d-danielle
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/150/atlas-as7-wgs-samsonov

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 September 2016, 17:34:30
Jose fixed.
Sartis: those have been fixed. I was hoping they would get suppressed once regular data showed up. I'll have to get them deleted en-masse since there are about 1600 TBD entries still kicking around the system and I don't want to have to delete them all by hand.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 12 September 2016, 17:40:04

The primitive Archer has no intro date.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3721/archer-arc-1a
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 September 2016, 18:39:46
The primitive Archer has no intro date.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3721/archer-arc-1a

Fixed. Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 12 September 2016, 19:36:34
Emperor 5A (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/963/emperor-emp-5a)

TRO is erroneously listed as 3025. I don't know if it is mentioned in a TRO (I see nothing in 3058U), but it isn't TRO3025.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 September 2016, 20:22:42
I don't want to have to delete them all by hand.

yeah, that's fair
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 September 2016, 20:46:18
Emperor 5A (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/963/emperor-emp-5a)

TRO is erroneously listed as 3025. I don't know if it is mentioned in a TRO (I see nothing in 3058U), but it isn't TRO3025.

TR3025 p120 lists "EMP Emperor" as an early mech design of same era as BNC and MCK.  That's what that MUL entry was created to reference.  But yeah, now that XTRO Primitives vol 4 has more of the story, it will be the new TR reference.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 13 September 2016, 08:54:02
The Cameron battlecruiser has an intro date of 2688 in the MUL and is named accordingly:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3890/cameron-battlecruiser-2688

Problem: TRO:3057 and TRO:2750 consistently give its intro date as 2668, twenty years earlier. TRO:3057r gives the date as 2688 in what seems to me may have been a typo.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 13 September 2016, 09:40:30
The Cameron battlecruiser has an intro date of 2688 in the MUL and is named accordingly:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3890/cameron-battlecruiser-2688

Problem: TRO:3057 and TRO:2750 consistently give its intro date as 2668, twenty years earlier. TRO:3057r gives the date as 2688 in what seems to me may have been a typo.

Newer sources trump old. It may be a typo, but errata is not being accepted for any of those sources at this time, and this is the wrong place to report such an error anyway.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MrKiasu on 13 September 2016, 12:06:06
RFL-3N availability seems very limited in the star league era. It's not even available to the SLDF or TH. Is that righ:t?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 13 September 2016, 21:32:51
How are these availability settings determined? Specific entries in a TRO or Source Book? RATs?

Also, does "availability" means it was available through whatever means? i.e.: manufacturing vs. legal sales from the SLDF or inter-House trade
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 13 September 2016, 21:40:36
Yes, and lots up filling in the blanks.
Available means we believe multiple regiments/clusters/etc have (or could have) multiple of that unit in its forces.  We don't care how they would have gotten there (new production, old production, absorbing star league forced, refit of other models, sold by clan merchants, doesn't matter).
Though unless a source specifically mentions large numbers available through salvage, we don't include salvage.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 14 September 2016, 01:03:28
This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:


Homeworld Clan and Late Succession Wars data is now available.
Star League and Early Succession Wars data is now available.

In the Master Unit List, the introductory date for the CPLT-K2 variant is apparently retconned to 3033.

I find this a little disturbing, since it is a prominently noted variant, complete with record sheets in the original 1986 edition of the TRO 3025 and it's 1996 Revision. But at some point since CGL took over, it's intro has been retconned to 3033, throwing away 21 years of canon and gameplay.  So I guess what I am asking, is 3033 the official introduction date for the production model of the k2, with it existing as House Kurita's standard refit before that, or is it CGLs stance now that the TRO was just plain wrong, and no PPC Cats before 3033?  (I'd also note your own tables in House Kurita 3025 lists K2 as available)  And if so, when were they first available as a unit?

Any official ruling on that would be greatly appreciated by this long time player.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 14 September 2016, 01:32:42
We're going over the issue now, and we'll update here when it's been decided on.  Thanks for bringing it up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 14 September 2016, 05:59:40
First of all thank you for your great work.
It seems to me that all of the BA from TRO3058U are missing dark age availability.
is this intentional?
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 September 2016, 06:37:46
Most of 3058 is missing many eras. This is an artifact of how long it takes to compile this stuff. Only about 1/3 of the units in the MUL have faction data for the later eras.

Side note: 3058 is the current TRO of units I'm working on. I've been working on it and 3055 for a while now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Prussian Havoc on 14 September 2016, 11:18:49
We're going over the issue now, and we'll update here when it's been decided on.  Thanks for bringing it up.

A number of us over at HBS's BATTLETECH forum are quite interested in the Introduction Date of the K2: https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/3819/comments/67713

Some want a Retcon of a Retcon so as to put the Catapult K2 "in play" for HBS's 3025 BATTLETECH.

And some of support the original CGL 3033 Introduction Date of the K2, with HBS free to introduce the K2 in a future potential expansion to BATTLETECH.


We await your response, Good Sir! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 14 September 2016, 11:42:15
Rim Worlds Republic
Field Report:2765 Periphery

Page 18: The Black Knight, Excalibur, Highlander, and King Crab are becoming "more common sights" in the Imperial Divisions.
Page 20: A full company of Atlas were purchased by Taborri Amaris for her Amaris Regulars.
Page 21: Land-Air 'Mechs are available in the Battalion size

- Atlas AS7-D
- Black Knight BL-6-KNT
- Excalibur EXC-B2
- Highlander HGN-732
- King Crab KGC-000

- Stinger LAM
- Wasp LAM
- Phoenix Hawk LAM

Liberation of Terra, Volumes I & II

Missing units from the RATs.

- Bombardier BMB-12D
- Cestus CTS-6Y
- Crab CRB-27
- Emperor EMP-6A
- Exterminator EXT-4D
- Firefly FFL-4A
- Flashman FLS-8K
- Galahad GLH-2D
- Griffin GRF-2N
- Hermes HER-1S
- Hussar HSR-200-D
- Kintaro KTO-19
- Kyudo KY2-D-02
- Lancelot LNC25-01
- Lynx LNX-9Q
- Mongoose MON-66
- Night Hawk NTK-2Q
- Panther PNT-9R
- Pillager PLG-3Z
- Rifleman RFL-2N
- Rifleman RFL-3N
- Sentinel STN-3L
- Shootist ST-8A
- Talon TLN-5V
- Whitworth WTH-1 (TRO:3039, p. 126) - A branch of the Whitworth company existed in the RWR.
- Whitworth WTH-1S (TRO:3039, p. 126) - A branch of the Whitworth company existed in the RWR.
- Wyvern WVE-5N
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 September 2016, 20:53:10
We typically don't use RATs as a basis for this unless other reliable information is completely lacking. We'll take a look at your list.

Only the Whitworth WTH-0 was produced in the RWR.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 14 September 2016, 21:00:59
"The WTH-0 design was fielded exclusively by the Amaris Dragoons and used more as a terror weapon. Only twenty-four were ever made by Whitworth’s Republic branch on some forgotten world."

Seems odd that they'd set up an entire factory for 24 units, since they were made in 2754 and in peacetime. But you guys probably have more info on it than I do.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 14 September 2016, 23:35:02
I'd hate to bring up more stuff to "add to the pile" ...but the MUL is not correctly displaying the BV for Clan Battle Armor.

I believe it has to do with the "generic" CAR4 profile which is likely using the "4" troop multiplier instead of "5" from the Tech Manual p.316

Gnome [Standard] http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1216/gnome-battle-armor-standard
. Individual Trooper BV = 83  [per TRO3058_Upgrade p.51 ]
. . with x5 Multiplier = 7.0 or 581  [matches RecordSheet_3058_Unabridged_Clan p.89]
. . with x4 Multiplier = 5.2, or 431.6 BV  [close to MUL error]

Elemental [MicroPulse]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/962/elemental-battle-armor-micropl
. Individual Trooper BV = 69  [per TRO3058_Upgrade p.45 ]
. . with x5 Multiplier = 7.0 or 483  [closely resembles RecordSheet_3058_Unabridged_Clan p.82]
. . with x4 Multiplier = 5.2, or 358.8~ BV  [close to MUL error]

Only suggestion I have is to make "CAR5" the default card for these (and other) primarily Clan-fielded battle armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 14 September 2016, 23:54:45
Just to note, the individual BVs shown in the TROs are rounded. If you're calculating the BV for a squad/point/level I you take the unrounded individual BV, apply the multiplier, then round.

As for the suggestion, it can certainly be taken under consideration but no saying if or when something can come of it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 15 September 2016, 00:21:13
Just to note, the individual BVs shown in the TROs are rounded. If you're calculating the BV for a squad/point/level I you take the unrounded individual BV, apply the multiplier, then round.

As for the suggestion, it can certainly be taken under consideration but no saying if or when something can come of it.

Agreed, which is why i checked my numbers against the multipliers in the Tech Manual (table on p.316).  While I did not manually calculate each BA, I followed the TRO entries and then multiplied by the respective multipliers.  Anything within 10 BV didn't concern me... but when the difference between the MUL and the Record Sheets  is +100?  I decided to test the "Wrong Multiplier" theory and felt inclined to share my conclusions.

I don't have any reason to believe the Record Sheets, TRO, or TechManual to be in error; the current values on the MUL for [respective] Clan-fielded BA are misleading (undervalued).  Anyone with the Record Sheets will have the right of it; anyone using the Force Builder may have issues.

**Edit** italicized for clarity
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 September 2016, 00:36:15
It's a technical issue I believe.  The MUL is supposed to show BV for all three (4, 5 and 6).  It's currently showing PVs instead of  BVs on the "5 trooper squad" and "6 trooper squad" lines, and those are supposed to be BV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 16 September 2016, 14:30:52
Methinks the card for the Leviathan JumpShip needs some work... :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 20 September 2016, 21:05:59
Vulture MkIII "D" variant:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6275/vulture-mk-iii-d

Sources:
TRO3145_Clans p.41
RS3145_Unabridged p.454
AlphaStrike Companion (conversion process p.90-142)

Damage is currently listed as "5/5/3" for 39 PV.  I believe this is in error and should instead be "6/6/4" and 43 PV

2x clan RAC5 damage = 4.0/4.0/4/.0       [ASC table values p.108]
...with 60 shots per weapon (120 shots, or 6 tons of ammo combined), the damage should not be reduced by the Insufficient Ammo multiplier  [ASC p.101]
2x clan Medium Pulse damage = 1.54/1.54/-

Total Heat = 12(6)+8(4)+2(engine) = 22 total heat
Total Heat Dissipation = 24 (12 double heat sinks)
...since "24 > 22" there is no need to check for Overheat.  The unit is efficient.

Final damage should be 5.54/5.54/4.0 ~ 6/6/4
I have calculated a +4 increase in OFV, which should directly affect the PV of the unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 24 September 2016, 13:10:34
I think the Firestarter availability is backward. The FS9-A (2550) was the earlier design. Shouldn't it be available to IS/Periphery General as well? The FS9-H (2703) and FS9-K also seems like they'd be "general", or in the case of the -K, Lyran exclusive. It was built by Argile Technologies and there were no Capellan Firestarter lines at the time. At least none I've seen.

TRO:3039, 'Variants'
Quote
"A companion model, the FS9-K, mounted two flamers, a large laser, and two small lasers. However, the -H model proved to be so popular that it was Argile’s dominant product after 2703."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 24 September 2016, 14:43:48
We're going over the issue now, and we'll update here when it's been decided on.  Thanks for bringing it up.
guessing no decisions on the CPLT-K2's introductory date?  I'll keep checking back about once a week, either way, but won't bug ya about it again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 September 2016, 15:37:26
Issue: MUL cards for ASFs describe Engine Hits as 1/4 thrust lost; Alpha Strike pg. 58 (second printing, PDF) describes an Engine Hit as 1/2 thrust lost (round down).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 24 September 2016, 17:01:47
guessing no decisions on the CPLT-K2's introductory date?  I'll keep checking back about once a week, either way, but won't bug ya about it again.

Most often when you file a report and don't get an immediate response, it's because there is a LOT of discussion going on behind the scenes. I will say that I support your error report; the CPLT-K2 is one of the units I definitely did the date on, and unless I made a mistake I am certain I submitted it as being from the 3020s or earlier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 September 2016, 17:06:55
The Eagle (ASF)'s role in the MUL is currently "None".
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 24 September 2016, 20:46:36
The Eagle (ASF)'s role in the MUL is currently "None".

He's on break.....
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 25 September 2016, 23:41:51
The Vandal LI-O is listed as a standard tech unit but it has a Large VSP Laser which AFAIK is still advanced tech even in its native era. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 26 September 2016, 00:36:02
Most often when you file a report and don't get an immediate response, it's because there is a LOT of discussion going on behind the scenes. I will say that I support your error report; the CPLT-K2 is one of the units I definitely did the date on, and unless I made a mistake I am certain I submitted it as being from the 3020s or earlier.

Cool.  Well, as said, not trying to be a pain.  I always took 3033 as being when factory new versions of the K2 rolled off the first new CPLT line since Hollis stopped production way back when, and that the K2 in the TRO 3025 was a general refit, like the Shadow Hawk or Wolverine K.  But getting an actual "canon" answer, and possibly even clarification on when it first arrived as a Mod, would definitely my day. 

So again, I'll check in periodically.  Just because of the way this Forum works, wasn't realyl sure if my question had been seen (as the post following could have been directed to several people) or lost in the glut, as it were.

cheers!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 26 September 2016, 18:28:57
The Vandal LI-O is listed as a standard tech unit but it has a Large VSP Laser which AFAIK is still advanced tech even in its native era.

The VSPLs are listed as common (aka TL) in IntOps as of 3080.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 27 September 2016, 02:46:49
The VSPLs are listed as common (aka TL) in IntOps as of 3080.

Christ, there is a THIRD source of tech translations!?!  This is getting stupid.    >:(  Whenever TPTB are done screwing around it would be nice to see a compiled tech change list available for download.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Moonsword on 27 September 2016, 20:45:33
You're right, all of the systems in non-core supplements and tech level transitions needed to be consolidated down into one spot.  That's why Interstellar Operations has a whole chapter devoted to that subject!  It's available for download from BattleCorps (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3485) and DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/153613).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dante904 on 28 September 2016, 02:32:02
I was searching for the answer for a while, but can't find one.
The issue is with the Combat Manual availability lists don't match MUL. For example CM: Mercenary lost Jagermech JM6-A as available for mercs, while MUL don't. Its just an example, as some more mechs availabilities don't match.
I presume its just silly me not being able to find a simple answer, but still looking for clarifying.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 28 September 2016, 02:50:29
You're right, all of the systems in non-core supplements and tech level transitions needed to be consolidated down into one spot.  That's why Interstellar Operations has a whole chapter devoted to that subject!  It's available for download from BattleCorps (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3485) and DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/153613).

If I had not already shelled out for two books already to get what I thought was the whole list then that would be ok but I did and so it's not.  I don't think I should have to shell more money for something I thought I already had.  There isn't anything else in IntOps that I would use.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 28 September 2016, 10:34:46
I was searching for the answer for a while, but can't find one.
The issue is with the Combat Manual availability lists don't match MUL. For example CM: Mercenary lost Jagermech JM6-A as available for mercs, while MUL don't. Its just an example, as some more mechs availabilities don't match.
I presume its just silly me not being able to find a simple answer, but still looking for clarifying.

The MUL and CM tables are not meant to match exactly. They'll be really close, but they are nonetheless two completely separate availability systems, and players can use whichever one they like.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mendrugo on 06 October 2016, 19:53:52
Introduction date for the Transgressor fighter is incorrect. 

It is listed as 2890 in the MUL, but TRO:3025 (p. 150) indicates that the still living Harry S. Yoshita was one of the original designers of the Transgressor.  House Liao: The Capellan Confederation (p. 50) indicates that "the first of the Confederation's new Transgressor fighters became available" in 2987.  That date would be consistent with the TRO:3025 entry.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Freak on 10 October 2016, 13:17:56
While looking up some BV/PV points earlier I noticed the Raven 4Lr is listed on its AS card as a Missile Boat. I call shenannigans on this as apart from loss of the Narc beacon it has exactly the same electronics as the 4L and its single solitary missile rack is an MML-7. this should really be a Scout like its 4L predecessor.
Title: SUGGESTION for MUL Printouts
Post by: -Ice on 10 October 2016, 17:12:25
I have three suggestions for the MUL printouts for Alpha Strike.

1.  Can we please have the option to print out colored cards similar to the Lance pack cards shown here (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=54970.0)?  In this modern day and age, it's fairly easy to print out full-color items and doing so will make it easier to attract new/younger players to the game.  After all, if we are really content with black-and-white, we wouldn't need to paint our mechs, would we?  >:D

2.  Another option I would like to suggest is the inclusion of numbers on the Armor and Structure.  For example:
A: (10) 0000000000
S: (8 ) 00000000
The reason I'm asking for this is because I am planning to play WITHOUT having to mark the cards.  Instead, I will use counters like coins/beads/tokens to track damage and having this option would make it easier to determine how much armor/structure a mech has and how much is remaining.

3.  Third suggestion would be the option to automatically convert mech movement from inches to hexes.  I don't have the space in my house to play on a 6x4 table so we're playing on the mapsheets instead.


Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 October 2016, 20:15:20
When can I start posting corrections for cards again?  I seem to recall the arbiters of the MUL estate being on vacation or something.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 October 2016, 21:30:40
Post whenever you like.  We will respond when we get to it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 October 2016, 22:41:44
Can't argue with that.

Units missing pictures: Boomerang Spotter Plane (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3854/boomerang-spotter-plane-standard), Vulcan VLC-3N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3460/vulcan-vlc-3n)

Units missing roles (or have role: "None"): Boeing Jump Bomber (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/409/boeing-jump-bomber-standard), Saber SB-26 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4958/sabre-sb-26), Sabre SB-28 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4960/sabre-sb-28), Saber SB-29 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4961/sabre-sb-29), Centurion CNT-1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3924/centurion-cnt-1a), Centurion CNT-2D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3926/centurion-cnt-2d), Centurion CNT-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3927/centurion-cnt-3s), Blackwasp Mk. 30 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/390/blackwasp-mk-30), Planetlifter Air Transport (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2544/planetlifter-air-transport-standard), Planetlifter Tactical Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4840/planetlifter-tactical-support-aircraft-standard)
Hellcat HCT-313 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4299/hellcat-hct-313), Eagle EGL-R1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4106/eagle-egl-r1), Eagle EGL-R11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4108/eagle-egl-r11), Eagle EGL-R4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4109/eagle-egl-r4), Deathstalker F-77A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4056/deathstalker-f-77a)

Units with thrust printed in inches: Saber SB-27b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2762/sabre-sb-27b), Zero ZRO-116b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3637/zero-zro-116b), Corsair CSR-V12b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b), Hellcat II HCT-213c (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1470/hellcat-ii-hct-213c) (it was at this moment I realized most of these were in HS:OK) Lightning LTN-G15b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1878/lightning-ltn-g15b), Voidseeker Mk 39-004 Interceptor (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7144/voidseeker-mk-39-004-interceptor), Eagle EGL-R6b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/939/eagle-egl-r6b), Voidseeker Mk 39-007 Striker (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7145/voidseeker-mk-39-007-striker), Chippewa CHP-W5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/585/chippewa-chp-w5b), Stuka STU-K5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b), Thunderbird TRB-D36b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3227/thunderbird-trb-d36b)

Units missing entire cards: Cheetah II F-12A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5856/cheetah-ii-f-12a), Tabanid Light Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3148/tabanid-light-drone-fighter-standard), Planetlifter Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2545/planetlifter-support-aircraft-standard), Scarab Medium Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2812/scarab-medium-drone-fighter-standard), Aeshna Heavy Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/15/aeshna-heavy-drone-fighter-standard)

Units with incorrect RS sources: Lancer LX-1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4470/lancer-lx-1) (the record sheet does not exist; can't really be in RS3067U if it doesn't exist)

I think that's literally every fighter on the MUL with errors at present (obviously excepting the ones that don't have record sheets or anything else).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dohon on 20 October 2016, 12:47:21
With the release of a few new products over the past few weeks, a few good and old classic `Mechs got a new facelift. The new faces are:

Griffin GRF-1N [Wireframe image + AS card] (Source: Spotlight On - Crescent Hawks)
Valkyrie VLK-QA [Wireframe image + AS card] (Source: Spotlight On - Crescent Hawks + Sourcebook - First Succession War)
Thunderbolt TDR-5S [Wireframe image + AS card] (Source: Spotlight On - Crescent Hawks)
Wolverine WVR-6R [Wireframe Image] (Source: Sourcebook - First Succession War)
Wasp WSP-1A [Wireframe Image] (Source: Sourcebook - First Succession War)

The entries in the relevant sources might refer to other variants, but the images themselves refer to the model and variant as described above.

Can the old "wireframes" on the MUL be replaced by these new appearances?

EDIT: Added reference for new WSP-1A image.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 October 2016, 13:20:21
Can't argue with that.

Units missing pictures: Boomerang Spotter Plane (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3854/boomerang-spotter-plane-standard), Vulcan VLC-3N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3460/vulcan-vlc-3n)
Fixed.

Quote
Units with incorrect RS sources: Lancer LX-1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4470/lancer-lx-1) (the record sheet does not exist; can't really be in RS3067U if it doesn't exist)
Fixed.


Quote
Units with thrust printed in inches: Saber SB-27b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2762/sabre-sb-27b), Zero ZRO-116b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3637/zero-zro-116b), Corsair CSR-V12b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b), Hellcat II HCT-213c (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1470/hellcat-ii-hct-213c) (it was at this moment I realized most of these were in HS:OK) Lightning LTN-G15b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1878/lightning-ltn-g15b), Voidseeker Mk 39-004 Interceptor (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7144/voidseeker-mk-39-004-interceptor), Eagle EGL-R6b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/939/eagle-egl-r6b), Voidseeker Mk 39-007 Striker (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7145/voidseeker-mk-39-007-striker), Chippewa CHP-W5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/585/chippewa-chp-w5b), Stuka STU-K5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b), Thunderbird TRB-D36b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3227/thunderbird-trb-d36b)
Fixed.

Quote
Units missing roles (or have role: "None"): Boeing Jump Bomber (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/409/boeing-jump-bomber-standard), Saber SB-26 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4958/sabre-sb-26), Sabre SB-28 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4960/sabre-sb-28), Saber SB-29 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4961/sabre-sb-29), Centurion CNT-1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3924/centurion-cnt-1a), Centurion CNT-2D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3926/centurion-cnt-2d), Centurion CNT-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3927/centurion-cnt-3s), Blackwasp Mk. 30 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/390/blackwasp-mk-30), Planetlifter Air Transport (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2544/planetlifter-air-transport-standard), Planetlifter Tactical Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4840/planetlifter-tactical-support-aircraft-standard)
Hellcat HCT-313 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4299/hellcat-hct-313), Eagle EGL-R1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4106/eagle-egl-r1), Eagle EGL-R11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4108/eagle-egl-r11), Eagle EGL-R4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4109/eagle-egl-r4), Deathstalker F-77A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4056/deathstalker-f-77a)
fixed.  Boomerang and Planetlifter Tactical are still none.

Quote
Units missing entire cards: Cheetah II F-12A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5856/cheetah-ii-f-12a), Tabanid Light Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3148/tabanid-light-drone-fighter-standard), Planetlifter Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2545/planetlifter-support-aircraft-standard), Scarab Medium Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2812/scarab-medium-drone-fighter-standard), Aeshna Heavy Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/15/aeshna-heavy-drone-fighter-standard)
and fixed.

thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 20 October 2016, 14:33:46
 Monitor Naval Vessel (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2219/monitor-naval-vessel-standard) has no role.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 20 October 2016, 21:09:38
Fixed.
Fixed.

Fixed.
fixed.  Boomerang and Planetlifter Tactical are still none.
and fixed.

thanks.

Thank you!  The Corsair V12b and V18, Sabre 27 and 27b, and Eagle R6 have all appeared in games of mine in the last two months, so these fixes will see immediate table time. O0
Title: Re: SUGGESTION for MUL Printouts
Post by: -Ice on 23 October 2016, 15:37:45
4.  I tried changing the MV values from inches to hexes but realized that doing so alters the TMM.  For instance, the Jenner JR7-D with a move of 14"/10"j has a TMM of 3 but changing it to 7/5j brings the TMM to 1.  Can we please have the option to enter the TMM manually instead of it being automatically calculated off the MV value?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 23 October 2016, 22:55:53
TMM should not change.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 October 2016, 10:42:55
He knows that, he's saying that the TMM is calculated automatically when you click "Customize" on a given unit's card and input a speed in hexes instead of inches.  Since the speed in hexes is 7/5j, the TMM is calculated as if the speed were seven inches instead, and displaying incorrectly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: -Ice on 24 October 2016, 13:34:13
Thanks for moving my suggestions!   8)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: -Ice on 24 October 2016, 16:11:12
One issue I just came across.... when adding mechs via the "+Force" button, they print out with Skill: 0 instead of "4"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ActionButler on 11 November 2016, 10:11:58
A poster pointed out to me in a PM that the Clan Mechanized Infantry Mimir/Watch Counter Insurgency Point http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/622/clan-mechanized-infantry-mimirwatch-counter-insurgency-point is currently listed as Inner Sphere technology.  Since the Bears have all but completely integrated with the FRR, I can see this go either way, but I wanted to pass it on just the same.   


NCKestrel: Fixed, thanks for you and anon poster for pointing it out :).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 12 November 2016, 00:19:59
**Bump**
Vulture MkIII "D" variant.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.msg1259787#msg1259787



Also the Hata-moto Chi, HTM-28T (Shin) variant needs to have someone look it over.  (I don't have the TRO, but, from the Record Sheet, there's a few things needing corrected).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5457/hatamoto-chi-htm-28t-shin
Source: RS3050_Unabridged_ InnerSphere p.223

Movement: change 8" to 6"j
Damage
 . Short: change from 3 to 5
 . Medium: change from 3 to 5

Long Range Damage, Overheat, and listed Specials all appear fine as is.

PV will need to be recalculated accordingly (my numbers came back with 49.75, or 50 PV)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 November 2016, 22:06:12
I noticed the Whitworth WTH-1 isn't listed as available to the Star League during the Star League era even though TRO3039 (pg 126) description implies the variant was made at the request of Star League Defense Forces:

"Originally armed with dual Harpoon-6 SRM launch-
ers, Star League designers convinced the manufacturer to
switch to the longer reach of the Longbow LRM 10 series
after noting that..."

Of course, the text doesn't actually state that the SDLF ever used WTH-1. It mentions that Whitworths were absorbed by Great House armies but it doesn't specify any variants. But logically the Star League wouldn't have made the request unless they wanted to use WTH-1, i think, so i'd suggest WTH-1 is made available for the Star League in MUL.

Unless i'm missing another source, quote or something that clearly implies otherwise?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3538/whitworth-wth-1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 02 December 2016, 19:28:44
Most often when you file a report and don't get an immediate response, it's because there is a LOT of discussion going on behind the scenes. I will say that I support your error report; the CPLT-K2 is one of the units I definitely did the date on, and unless I made a mistake I am certain I submitted it as being from the 3020s or earlier.

So at this point, I'm going to guess the K2 question is either deemed "correct" in date, or got buried?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 02 December 2016, 19:52:29
So at this point, I'm going to guess the K2 question is either deemed "correct" in date, or got buried?

Buried under a ton of other work at the moment, presumably.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 02 December 2016, 22:41:11
So at this point, I'm going to guess the K2 question is either deemed "correct" in date, or got buried?

We haven't decided what date to change it to.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 03 December 2016, 15:11:21
We haven't decided what date to change it to.

Ah, OK... didn't realize I was opening such a can of worms... (looks sheepish).  Always figured it was a Field Refit like the SHD-2K, etc, and probably a product of the Second Succession War, when they still had tech levels high enough for such an extreme conversion, of real late 3rd Succession War, 3020s, just before the TRO 3025, era, when the resurgence brought on the Grand Dragon, the ZEU-6T, Hatchetman, etc... but TBH, in all my years of playing, the only two "solid" dates I have ever seen associated with the K2 was that it existed in some form when the TRO 3025 was released, and that in 3033 Kurita started the first Catapult line in over 200 years, and produced the K2.  At this late date, I doubt I'll be able to plead and cajole Mitch into adding it to HBS's game, but as a long time fan of the chassis in TT, I would love to know, regardless.  I feel like I'm being a bad person running K2s in my 3025 campaign right now......... :(
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 10 December 2016, 00:53:11
Need to first thank two mods -- ActionButler, and Bosefius --- I didn't find this thread in a search, and ActionButler happily passed on my request on the infantry without criticism, and Bosefius did the same with a question I had on the ML variant of the Scorpion Light Tank.

Which brings me back to this, again -----
The MUL entry for the Scorpion Light Tank, ML variant has been updated from 2/2/0 damage, to 2/1/0 --- but I am curious, as it is only armed with 2 medium lasers and a machine gun for a maximum of 12 damage, how it gets the 2 at short range? If I missed something in the calculations, I would appreciate having that information.
This also brings me to the Vedette Liao, which has the same 2 medium lasers and a machine gun in the turret, with 2 tons of ammo for the machine gun - has a 2/1/0 damage profile, but has a Turret of 1/1/0 listed, even though all the weapons are in that turret ... and it's exactly the same turret armament as the Scorpion Light Tank.

Thank You very much, in advance
Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 December 2016, 07:55:51
Base damage is rounded up.  So 1.2 becomes 2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 10 December 2016, 14:39:02
Base damage is rounded up.  So 1.2 becomes 2.
Does it always round up, because i have seen it round down, in other applications with 1.3 and 1.4 damage -- and that is with vehicles, where heat is not a factor.
I do appreciate the response, though, as I have been doing a lot of work with conventional forces, recently

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 December 2016, 16:28:54
Yes, non-special ability damage values round up.  Special abilities damages round normal.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 10 December 2016, 20:48:09
Yes, non-special ability damage values round up.  Special abilities damages round normal.
Again, thank you -- ok, this does then create a question for the Vedette (Liao), which has that same 2 medium lasers and machine gun in the turret, but is listed with turret 1/1/0.

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 December 2016, 21:06:47
RS 3039u is showing me the Vedette Liao's machine gun as front mounted and not in the turret?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 11 December 2016, 01:09:41
RS 3039u is showing me the Vedette Liao's machine gun as front mounted and not in the turret?

I tend to use SAW, as it's faster, and they have it in the turret, with 2 tons of ammo in the body ......

That works, though, and thank you

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 12 December 2016, 17:55:27
RS 3039u is showing me the Vedette Liao's machine gun as front mounted and not in the turret?

TRO3039 p.66-67  **PDF version, "Corrected Second Printing"**
The weapons entry for the primary variant of the Vedette puts the MG in the turret; it doesn't mention where it should go for the others. (Intuitively, the MG is maintained throughout the other variants; only the primary weapon is weight-swapped).

Is it possible the [the Vedette's] Record Sheets were wrong?

**edit: source**
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 14 December 2016, 08:05:10
We haven't decided what date to change it to.

It's my belief the -K2 refit originated on Al'Nair, which TRO 3025 says explicitly manufactures the original AS7-D Atlas, as part of Takashi Kurita's program to create a series of more powerful BattleMechs.  It likely uses the same Lord's Thunder PPC found on the DRG-1G "Grand Dragon."  Furthermore, I think the core issue is the date of Yori 'Mech Works, which I believe was operational well before 3025.  The "atlas" portion in the back of the House Kurita handbook says Yori Mech Works is a joint venture between Luthien Armor Works and Alshain Weaponry and that it was damaged in 3010 but is "recently back to production."  Yori is also known to have later produced both the advanced -K and-K2 versions of the Atlas.
A conservative date for the -K2 is 3024 but I think there is sufficient indirect evidence to date it to 3004.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Vulp on 18 December 2016, 13:20:28
Thanks to the MUL team for all their work, the MUL is a great resource to have available.  Is there any way that fans can help volunteer to contribute to the MUL effort?

Specifically I have a question about the status of the Dark Age unit availabilities.  They are listed in "Draft" status - is there any way to help advance its status?  There is a statement at the top of the this thread that "This database does not include Dark Age availabilities for units published prior to TR 3085". Should be interpreted as a canonical limitation ("The likelihood of encountering a 100 year old Daishi on the battlefield in 3150 is about the same as encountering a century-old WW1 Landship in a present-day conflict")?  Or it is more to limit the scope of work involved providing availability for these eras?

My guess would be mostly the latter (though with a bit of the former) -- this question came up while putting together a Dark Age unit and noticing that Union dropships are on some RATs in 3145, but not tagged as available in the MUL.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 18 December 2016, 14:04:04
Scope of work. I wish it was something simple like this TRO isn't done because some are partially done. We have been working on data for TRO 3055 and later. I have 3039 and 3050 (clans are already done) on the docket next but it is a matter of carving out the time to compile and review.

For a quick answer if there is data available for a unit, it should give something for faction data for all eras after introduction with the exception of homeworld clan mechs. Compare these two examples:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2495/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1k
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4488/legacy-lgc-01

The legacy has full data while the phoenix hawk only has data covering Star League through Early Republic.

As of right now, Dark Age and Late Republic eras only have about 57% coverage. Early Republic era has about 82%. Clan Invasion to Jihad eras have over 99% coverage.

The clan omnis from 3050 all have faction data.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 18 December 2016, 14:24:58
If I may step in for a moment, as a former contributor to the MUL, I feel I should add that RATs should not be taken as "canon." They are a game aid meant to help players quickly create thematic forces; no more, no less.
Title: Lycomb-Davion IntroTech AWESOME Production
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 23 December 2016, 17:38:03
Just curious as I have been unable to find any details on when Lycomb-Davion IntroTech started building Awesomes on New Avalon. 

Am assuming it's one of the many retcons I missed over the years, as when I first played the game only Technicron produced the AWS series.  If there is a better resource for finding out this info, please can somebody direct me to it?
Title: Re: Lycomb-Davion IntroTech AWESOME Production
Post by: nckestrel on 23 December 2016, 18:25:29
Just curious as I have been unable to find any details on when Lycomb-Davion IntroTech started building Awesomes on New Avalon. 

Am assuming it's one of the many retcons I missed over the years, as when I first played the game only Technicron produced the AWS series.  If there is a better resource for finding out this info, please can somebody direct me to it?

Let's back up a sec, what makes you think Lycomb-Davion builds Awesomes on New Avalon?  The MUL doesn't have production information, only availability (and not system specific).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 23 December 2016, 18:36:40
possible lack of info, only world I found lycomb davion listed was for New Avalon.  Excuse me if I missed something. That's kind of the point of posting and asking here, yes?  If incorrect, cool, kindly source the correct info.  But it's rather secondary to the main point, being when lycomb davion started producing AWS on whatever planet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 December 2016, 19:07:35
Field Report 2765: AFFS is the only source implying that Davion made any Awesomes. It is implied on Demeter. The factories were destroyed in the 1st SW. That is the last we hear about them making Awesomes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 23 December 2016, 20:32:48
If I may step in for a moment, as a former contributor to the MUL, I feel I should add that RATs should not be taken as "canon." They are a game aid meant to help players quickly create thematic forces; no more, no less.

Except that many units have no sources, outside of RATs, for their faction availability. Yet they are listed as available for those factions in the MUL.

CHEVALIER

Is there a published source stating that the Chevalier Light Tank was sold to every state during the Star League era? It's under "General" for all factions during the 2750 era on the MUL.

MERCURY MCY-99
Mercury MCY-99. TRO:2750, p. 16 states that "none of these 'Mechs were allowed outside of the direct control of the Regular Army." Yet it appears on the RATs for CCAF and LCAF and, of course, in their MUL availability.

WARHAMMER WHM-6Rb
This variant is found only on the RATs in the 2765 series (during the Star League) and is replaced by the WHM-6Rk on the DC table. This corresponds directly with what's in the MUL data. FR:2750 states that these "Royals" also represent field upgrades to existing units. So while the Combine and Periphery states are easily capable of upgrading their WHM-6R with double heat sinks and CASE, the MUL doesn't have them as available for these factions. The only place they appear (or do not appear) is in the 2765 RATs.

GALAHAD GLH-1D
As per Herb, this was a discontinued design produced by the Hegemony, just prior to the Star League's existence. (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38360.msg887231#msg887231 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38360.msg887231#msg887231)) It appears in the MUL as available to CCAF, LCAF, AFFS and in their corresponding RATs.

It seems as if the RATs were the initial source for the MUL data and, probably, the reason why there are so many oddities. It's hard to not come to that conclusion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 23 December 2016, 22:41:46
I'm not sure what your points are here, because you show cases where the RATs and MUL don't agree, and cases where there may be errors with both. My point is that sometimes units appear on RATs just to fill them out, because despite the thousands of units published, there are still gaps. (For example, the Chevalier Light Tank: maybe nobody but the SLDF really used that exact model, but the other states used local designs with the same stats.) Beyond that, mistakes also happen. Sometimes they're corrected through errata, and sometimes they're allowed to stay because their actual impact is minor.

If you feel you have found a mistake, the proper procedure is to report it as errata for the appropriate product. Do note that certain products are considered obsolete and will neither have errata threads nor be corrected. If any newer source disagrees with them, then the older product is usually considered to have been retconned unless the newer book is outright incorrect. TR2750, as one of the earliest Technical Readouts, certainly falls under this guideline. If you are uncertain what fix should be made, then before posting in the errata thread, post a question in either Ask the Writers or Ask the Lead Developers, but understand that it will take some time to get an answer, and that the answer you receive might not be what you wanted.

If you feel that the Master Unit List has an error, then this is the proper thread to post in. A unit's appearance on a RAT can be a point of evidence, but it might not be enough for inclusion on the MUL. On the other hand, a unit not appearing on a RAT is not a point of evidence in either direction. On the gripping hand, there may be internal discussion that places or removes a unit from the MUL without corroborating evidence in print.

BattleTech is a hugely detailed and sprawling universe, covering about six centuries "on-screen" over a couple hundred sourcebooks and novels. No one person can remember it all. Mistakes happen, and it is very much appreciated when the fanbase brings them to the developers' attention, so they can be fixed. All that's asked in return is patience on answers, and a willingness to accept that reports might not be acted upon or result in changes that the reporter might not personally agree with. "Hoarding" mistakes - that is, not reporting them because they're in your favor - or rejecting direct developer input is generally considered poor form, and is just going to prolong arguments.

Whoof. Sorry for the long post, and my apologies if I stepped on any toes, but I worked hard to develop the current errata system at CGL, and I know how hard everyone works behind the scenes, especially the MUL guys.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 December 2016, 23:21:02
Long story made short, if you feel there is an error in the MUL, report it and whatever sources you have for believing it's an error. 
RAT, technical readout, scenario, novel, whatever. 
There are few rules, many guidelines, and mostly headaches from the resulting conflicts.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 26 December 2016, 23:39:39
Regarding the MUL introduction date for the Zeus BattleMech:

TRO: 3025 reports the Zeus was designed in 2407 with Defiance Industries beginning production in 2411.

TRO: 3039 does a massive about face on this and states the Zeus didn't began production until after the fall of the Star League, arriving just in time for the beginning of the First Succession War.  The MUL also uses 2787 as the introduction date with the familiar -6S finally arriving 2898.

This would infer that Defiance Industries, the sole producer of the Zeus, maintained the ability to produce the advanced weapons of the Star League until almost 2900, including extended range energy weapons, Ultra autocannons, the Artemis IV FCS, Ferro-Fibrous armor and most importantly, Double Heat Sinks.

The Tech Manual reports extended range lasers were extinct as of 2950, Ultra autocannons in 2915​, DHS in 2865, ​the ER PPC as of 2860, Artemis IV disappears in 2855, and Ferro-Fibrous armor in 2810. 

How was Defiance Industries making the -5S and 5T ​Zeus​ using reportedly "extinct" technology up until 2898?  Something seems very, very wrong here.  Please review and clarify.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 December 2016, 00:09:04
Or Defiance didn't make any Zeus for several decades. Or Defiance made an as of yet undescribed variant for that time.  There's nothing on the MUL that says when production stopped, only when it first started.  If Defiance couldn't produce the 5S and 5T for a time, then they weren't.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 27 December 2016, 11:05:11
Field Report 2765: AFFS is the only source implying that Davion made any Awesomes. It is implied on Demeter. The factories were destroyed in the 1st SW. That is the last we hear about them making Awesomes.

great, that clears that up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 27 December 2016, 11:13:05
Regarding the MUL introduction date for the Zeus BattleMech:

TRO: 3025 reports the Zeus was designed in 2407 with Defiance Industries beginning production in 2411.

TRO: 3039 does a massive about face on this and states the Zeus didn't began production until after the fall of the Star League, arriving just in time for the beginning of the First Succession War.  The MUL also uses 2787 as the introduction date with the familiar -6S finally arriving 2898.

This would infer that Defiance Industries, the sole producer of the Zeus, maintained the ability to produce the advanced weapons of the Star League until almost 2900, including extended range energy weapons, Ultra autocannons, the Artemis IV FCS, Ferro-Fibrous armor and most importantly, Double Heat Sinks.

The Tech Manual reports extended range lasers were extinct as of 2950, Ultra autocannons in 2915​, DHS in 2865, ​the ER PPC as of 2860, Artemis IV disappears in 2855, and Ferro-Fibrous armor in 2810. 

How was Defiance Industries making the -5S and 5T ​Zeus​ using reportedly "extinct" technology up until 2898?  Something seems very, very wrong here.  Please review and clarify.

Or they were using existing stockpiles set aside for their Flagship, until they ran out? What we see in modern military ggear (admittedly usually with advancements, not downgrades) is a steady stream of modifications that get little or no official "designations" and then at various times, usually with a major change, a new model.  (M1A1 Abrams has had a ton of changes made that didn't really get noted by it's designation)

Out of Ferro Fibrous?  Switch the Line to standard.  Out of Artemis FCS (or more likely, the warheads)? Remove it, tuck another SHS in it's place.  Can't make an ER LLaser?  Use a std.  Few of those changes, individually would call for a new designation. I would say the DHS to SHS downgrade would be the most likely "change" point, from where the official 6S would step in.

Of course, all of that is counter to the original lore, which went from  PPC packing prototypes to production 6S, with no 5T or 5S in between.  But hey...why bother keeping continuity when we can retcon, instead!  (yes the sheer amount of unneeded retcons and variants added has me a bit salty)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 27 December 2016, 14:44:28
"Hoarding" mistakes - that is, not reporting them because they're in your favor - or rejecting direct developer input is generally considered poor form, and is just going to prolong arguments.

As I've no idea from where this information is taken, I cannot say what is/is not a mistake. There is no canon publication for many of them, outside of RATs. Which means that the data is either taken directly from a RAT, or from the developers'/authors' notes, or some other source which remains unpublished. Which is why I have not posted anything further. I'm not "hoarding" anything. Without more information on the MUL's sources, or feedback on the things I have posted, I cannot fact-check or post (possible) errors.

My follow-up question would then be, "what are the sources being used to determine availability?" Or, just narrowing it down for illustrative purposes; "what was the source of the Warhammer WHM-6Rb availability?" The answer to that would go a long way in helping me/others fact-check things and submit potential errors. :) If we don't know what sources are valid, how can we check them? 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 December 2016, 15:10:59
Quit the arguing before I start deleting posts.

This is for posting feedback about the MUL to the MUL team.  It's for a conversation between the MUL team and players, not players arguing with other players.  There's an entire forum outside of MUL feedback thread for that.

ColBosch, you're not on the MUL team any more.  I understand you had insight, but arguing with players is not something we want or need it.

TigerShark, 99% of the MUL information had to be made up.  There's often not a source, other than the MUL itself.  Feel free to point out if you think we missed a source that's contradictory, and ignore ColBosch. (And we'll get to your previous posts at some point, I'm just busy over the winter holidays so don't have the time to do the research yet that it deserves).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 27 December 2016, 15:36:22
TigerShark, 99% of the MUL information had to be made up. 

That helps a lot, actually. :) I've several I could post (Jihad-era) which make sense, based on that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 21:53:50
TRO3039 p.66-67  **PDF version, "Corrected Second Printing"**
The weapons entry for the primary variant of the Vedette puts the MG in the turret; it doesn't mention where it should go for the others. (Intuitively, the MG is maintained throughout the other variants; only the primary weapon is weight-swapped).

Is it possible the [the Vedette's] Record Sheets were wrong?

**edit: source**

Yep, thanks.  Vedette AS card corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 22:00:44
I noticed the Whitworth WTH-1 isn't listed as available to the Star League during the Star League era even though TRO3039 (pg 126) description implies the variant was made at the request of Star League Defense Forces:

Star League Regular faction availability added for Star League era.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 22:03:25
Vulture MkIII "D" variant:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6275/vulture-mk-iii-d

Sources:
TRO3145_Clans p.41
RS3145_Unabridged p.454
AlphaStrike Companion (conversion process p.90-142)

Damage is currently listed as "5/5/3" for 39 PV.  I believe this is in error and should instead be "6/6/4" and 43 PV

2x clan RAC5 damage = 4.0/4.0/4/.0       [ASC table values p.108]
...with 60 shots per weapon (120 shots, or 6 tons of ammo combined), the damage should not be reduced by the Insufficient Ammo multiplier  [ASC p.101]
2x clan Medium Pulse damage = 1.54/1.54/-

Total Heat = 12(6)+8(4)+2(engine) = 22 total heat
Total Heat Dissipation = 24 (12 double heat sinks)
...since "24 > 22" there is no need to check for Overheat.  The unit is efficient.

Final damage should be 5.54/5.54/4.0 ~ 6/6/4
I have calculated a +4 increase in OFV, which should directly affect the PV of the unit.

Yep, I think they missed the ammo in the CT.  AS Card corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 22:08:10
Also the Hata-moto Chi, HTM-28T (Shin) variant needs to have someone look it over.  (I don't have the TRO, but, from the Record Sheet, there's a few things needing corrected).


Yeah, there's nothing in the TR saying what it has at all, so the RS is all there is.  AS Card corrected.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 22:10:49
The CPLT-K2 and ZEU-6S intro dates are still being reviewed.  If there's something else asked about that hasn't been responded to, feel free to bump, I may have lost it in the backlog.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 29 December 2016, 07:05:59
I found a mention of the 'HH-1 compact mobile shipyard' in Wars of Reaving (page 35).

Could this unit please be added to the MUL, with more details if possible?
Bump

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 30 December 2016, 01:05:05
Lynx LNX-9Q
This unit has the availability of "Lyran Commonwealth" during the Star League era. Their manufacturer (Blue Shot Weapons of Solaris VII), was under the control of the Free Worlds League at the time. (2765:FWLM, page 25) TRO:3058U gives the impression that Solaris was the only site for the LNX-9Q and that the chassis was not made on Loxley.

Suggestion
Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth, Star League Regular, Star League Royal, Terran Hegemony

TRO:3058U, page 212
Quote
When Solaris VII factories were leveled during a House Marik raid in 2928, the surviving Lynx soon found themselves cannibalized for parts, and the line became extinct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 03 January 2017, 01:06:04
Hellcat II HCT-212

Faction availability - the TRO states this ASF was available throughout the SW yet it does not have an entry for late SW (both). I would suggest it should have the same availability as for early SW.

I would also suggest an odd example here or there would be available to mercenary groups
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 03 January 2017, 09:57:58
The Dig King RCL-1M MiningMech MOD has in introduction date of 2573, the same year as the base model.  The Era is listed as "Early Succession War."

The Carbine CON-7M ConstructionMech MOD is listed but there is no entry for the original CON-1 Carbine released in 2691.  This information is clearly stated in the TRO Vehicle Annex.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 January 2017, 11:41:52
Hellcat II hasn't been reviewed at all for LSW era faction data. I don't think any of that TRO has to be honest. We are currently trying to finished up the post jihad eras before finishing up the LSW. We also need clan data to go with ESW and LSW. I think that era is about 25% done.

I suspect the dig king mod has a wrong date. ESW seems to be when the MODs started appearing in general.

There is an entry for the Carbine -1. It appears to have been in the original set of data from when the MUL was set up. A search for Carbine brings it up for me.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 13 January 2017, 09:40:07
I was digging around the Arctic Wolf II and noticed that it was only available to Wolves in Exile and Kell Hounds through three eras.  It does appear in the Sea Foxes RAT table in FM3145 (pg 219.)  I know RATs are the end-all-be-all on what a faction can field, but if it appears in a RAT, would a faction have enough of them to make the MUL as well?

I searched to see if this had come up with this unit but couldn't find anything.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 13 January 2017, 11:30:17
I was digging around the Arctic Wolf II and noticed that it was only available to Wolves in Exile and Kell Hounds through three eras.  It does appear in the Sea Foxes RAT table in FM3145 (pg 219.)  I know RATs are the end-all-be-all on what a faction can field, but if it appears in a RAT, would a faction have enough of them to make the MUL as well?

I searched to see if this had come up with this unit but couldn't find anything.  Thanks!
Added Lyrans and Clan Sea Fox for Late Republic and Dark Ages availabilities.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 15 January 2017, 09:45:34
STINGER  STG-5G

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3062/stinger-stg-5g

should not have an OV 1

it has only one weapon, a light PPC with capacitor, and 10 DHS (according to RS3085 PP, and i checked the errata thread whether it are DHS or SHS).
even with single HS it could not overheat (11 heat build-up vs. 10 heat dissipation), so it should be corrected to OV 0 and PV 13 (it loses one point in the calculation for OV value).

(and btw, it would be impossible, even with AS conversion up-rounding all weapon damage, to deal 2 damage points with only a light PPC w/ capacitor.  ;) )

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bren on 25 January 2017, 17:12:15
I could easily be missing something here, but I was wondering about the Faction Availability of the Rifleman IIC 8 and 5;

Of the IIC 8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8)) TRO3085 says:
"This variant appeared in forces from all three Clans who soiled New Earth with their presence ... Though offered to all Inner Sphere factions, prior to 3080 the IIC 8 only appeared with the Sharks, Wolves, Falcons, Bears and AFFS. Since then, the DCMS and Duchy of Oriente have both aquired the design in small numbers."

This doesn't seem to agree with what's in the MUL for the Rifleman IIC 8.

Of the Rifleman IIC 5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5)), TRO3085 continues:
"In a futile attempt to confuse us, the putrid Falcons deployed a second variant of the Rifleman IIC ... The second variant identified by the Blakists is the IIC 5."

This is presumably the Rifleman IIC refit the Jade Falcons have coming out of Red Devil Industries on Pandora, but as per the MUL, it is not available to the Falcons but is available to a host of factions that the Falcons generally wouldn't trade with (trade of the merchant or warrior caste variety). I think the IIC 5 was mistakenly thought to have come from the Diamond Shark line on Twycross in the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 26 January 2017, 01:10:06
Constable Pacification Suit (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=constable)

The MUL restricts availability to the Rasalhague Dominion.   According to its source material:

Quote from: TRO:3145 The Clans
Despite its preliminary stigma as being
of Dominion manufacture, the suit went on to
see service in the Draconis Combine with ISF
agents and the occasional Civilian Guidance
Corps emergency response team.

The source goes on to give an example of a notable ISF operation making use of the suits, and one of the two notable pilots is a Combine agent.

According to the fluff, even though there's no evidence of its use by the actual military, the paramilitaries of the Combine seem to make notable use of suit, even if it may or may not be widespread use by those paramilitaries.  Should Draconis Combine availability be added?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 26 January 2017, 14:15:53
The CPLT-K2 and ZEU-6S intro dates are still being reviewed.  If there's something else asked about that hasn't been responded to, feel free to bump, I may have lost it in the backlog.
Thanks.

Any movement on this question?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 January 2017, 14:15:52
Karhu C - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1750/karhu-c

Per AlphaStrike Companion Conversion p.90-142
Per TRO3085 p.163, "Weapon Configuration C"

"HT2/2/2" should not be available to this variant, as Clan Plasma Cannons are not present on the equipment list in the TRO.
All other stats appear accurate (Armor, Movement, Damage, and applicable Specials).

The omission of the HT special should reduce the OFV by 2.5 (I calculated the total PV to be 42.25, which rounds normally [down] to 42).



Upon consorting with the Record Sheets (3085_Cutting Edge p.229-233) the "C" configuration has replaced the "Prime" configuration found in the TRO.  Also, the allocation of some of the "fixed" Critical Slots do not conform to the TRO.  Information was made known in the individual Errata thread (3085) but the info is dated, and does not read like any adjustments were made [to either the TRO or Record Sheets].

I have a proposed "fix" for the Record Sheets, but am holding to see what transpires in the other errata threads.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 January 2017, 14:49:16
Karhu C fixed to match TRO as the RS 3085 errata says to use the TRO stats.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 January 2017, 15:23:41
Not to be rude, but the previous version (with the HT2/2/2) was 45 PV (44.75, rounded up)
The corrected version should be 42 PV (44.75 - 2.5 = 42.25). 

OFV = 17
. (4+4+4+3 damage + 1.5 size + 0 overheat + 0.5 MEL special)
DFV = 25.25
. DIR + MF
. . DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(3 tmm/10)] ~ 23.4, or 23.5 (round, nearest half)
. . MF = 10/8 + 0.5 jump = 1.25 + 0.5 = 1.75
GFB = +0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 January 2017, 16:04:56
. . DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(3 tmm/10)] ~ 23.4, or 23.5 (round, nearest half)

TMM is 2, not 3? Only infantry include the +1 for jump now, as of v1.1 errata.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 January 2017, 16:20:11
My apologies-- I missed the v1.1 errata to the DIR calculation (40 would be correct).

Odd.  When (or rather, *why*) did that change?  (link discussion, if available to public?)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 27 January 2017, 21:08:08
It changed because when the PV system was first written jumping was a mandatory movement mode (i.e. it repalced ground movement completely) and only offered a +1 attack penalty.  In the process of Alpha Strike's development, jumping became an option but also the attack penalty rose to +2.  At that point I felt it was unfair for a guy to be charged as if they were jumping all the time when making attacks, because not only did they not have to, they probably weren't if they wanted to hit something.

Infantry still pay because they don't get the attack penalty when jumping.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 January 2017, 00:54:57
It changed because when the PV system was first written jumping was a mandatory movement mode (i.e. it replaced ground movement completely) and only offered a +1 attack penalty.

Small correction, jumping in the 1st printing had no attacker penalty.  They got a +1 target modifier for being jump capable (which led to errata clarifying that the unit had to actually use  jump movement to get the +1 for jumping), but there was no penalty to attacks by a jumping unit.  The ASC/2nd printing jumped (oops, sorry for the pun) directly to a +2 attacker modifier for jumping.

So the original PV was based on a "free" +1 target movement modifier with no penalty.  It was clearly beneficial.  A +2 to attacks penalty to get a +1 when targeted is much less clearly beneficial.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 29 January 2017, 00:19:25
I suppose I can see both your points...

Without meaning to discuss the matter, I'm concerned that the ability to jump was always held a distinctive tactical value over units incapable of jumping, (which is why I assumed it was in the Defense Factor calculations to begin with).

Is there some other way to pay for jump capability?

Jumping while suffering Overheat, for instance.  Those with heat levels 1-3 can still jump their full [jump] movement, while units that lack jump capability must hobble/standstill until they cool off [in this case, purely a defensive tactic]

And what about units equipped with Partial Wings and Improved Jump Jets whose [jump] movement often expands into the next bracket? (6"/10"j goes from +1 to +3 total TMM when jumping).  The movement modifiers usually offset the attack penalty (+2 TMM,+2 TN) while controlling/threatening more ground area [both offensive and defensive tactical].
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 January 2017, 01:30:38
Jumping does add a movement factor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 31 January 2017, 08:56:11
TRO 3039 page 58 states the Machine Gun variant of the Goblin is a "rare Kurita variant".  The MUL lists no Draconis Combine availability for this variant after the Early Succession War era (where it's IS General, Mercenary, and Periphery General): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1224/goblin-medium-tank-mg

Curiously, the SRM variant of the Goblin is listed with exclusive Draconis Combine (and Rasalhague, during its existence) availability after the Early Succession War era: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1225/goblin-medium-tank-srm

It appears the two variants were confused at some point with regard to their availability.  Recommend adding Draconis Combine/Rasalhague availability to the MG variant, and wider availability to the SRM variant (which isn't characterized as a "Kurita" variant).  The Combine already has access to the base and LRM variants.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 February 2017, 15:10:23
are the Trooper TP-1R from Primitives Vol 5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7407/trooper-tp-1r) and the Trooper TRP-1 metioned in the Flea writeup in TRO 3039 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5301/trooper-trp-1) discrete designs, or does the new TP-1R make the TRP-1 a redudant entry?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: theagent on 03 February 2017, 03:10:21
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/748/crusader-crd-2r

Something I just noticed (& brought up in my post http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56239.0 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56239.0)).  I'm not 100% sure about the Alpha Strike calculations for the CRD-2R.

It's possible that it's just because of a carryover from the BattleForce calculations (at least from what Solaris Skunk Werks says should be the BattleForce figures), or perhaps I'm just reading Alpha Strike Companion wrong, but I think the Attack Values and Overheat value might be off.

From what I can tell from the tables, Base damage (before adjusting for heat) should be:


Maximum heat should be 26 (5x2=10 for LRMs, 2x4=8 for Streaks, 3x2=6 for MLs, & 2 for Movement; 10 + 8 + 6 + 2 = 26).  Heat dissipation is 20 (10 double heat sinks).  The formula in ASC (p. 115) says Heat Modified Damage is Base Damage x Heat Dissipation / (Max Heat -4); or, in this case, Heat Modified Damage = Base Damage x 20 / 22.  When I plug that into the calculator, I get:

For the CRD-2R, the Defensive Points are 18.7 (6x2 = 12 for Armor, 5x1 = 5 for Structure, 12 + 5 = 17; TMM = 1; DIR = 1 + (1/10) = 1.1; 17 x 1.1 = 18.7).  The Offensive Points, however, are now 20.5:  4 (S) + 5x2 (M) + 3 (L) + 2 (IF2) + 1.5 (SZ 3, 3/2) = 4 + 10 + 3 + 2 + 1.5 = 20.5.  Added together, I get 20.5 + 18.7 = 39.2, rounded down to 39 (1 point higher than the 38 listed on the Alpha Strike card).

Did I miscalculate somewhere, or is this a real error on the card?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 February 2017, 07:50:19
The Crusader is penalized for only having 8 rounds of ammo per LDM launcherz
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: theagent on 03 February 2017, 16:47:50
The Crusader is penalized for only having 8 rounds of ammo per LDM launcherz

(Smacks self in head)

Right... I'd forgotten about that. And that's why they don't have the LRM special as well?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 February 2017, 17:09:35
(Smacks self in head)

Right... I'd forgotten about that. And that's why they don't have the LRM special as well?

That's due to the Artemis.  Artemis equipped units, in AS/BF, can only use Artemis rounds, so they don't get the LRM to use alternative munitions.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 09:26:31
Perhaps this has been addressed, but the MUL lists the BJ3 with a 3042 introductory date, but the mech itself was first debuted in the Fourth Succession War Battlepack?  I have not been able to obtain a copy of this Battlepack to confirm, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2017, 13:49:05
Perhaps this has been addressed, but the MUL lists the BJ3 with a 3042 introductory date, but the mech itself was first debuted in the Fourth Succession War Battlepack?  I have not been able to obtain a copy of this Battlepack to confirm, though.

it was in the 4thSW Battlepack, yes (writeup on pg 38)

(http://puu.sh/tPGmM/b1a85db363.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 February 2017, 14:11:17
That variant is also mentioned in TRO 3039 (page 128) as being from the "3030's".
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 February 2017, 15:07:00
it was in the 4thSW Battlepack, yes (writeup on pg 38)
That variant is also mentioned in TRO 3039 (page 128) as being from the "3030's".

Those are prototypes, not production models.  Double heat sink production was not re-started until 3040 according to TechManual. This appears to be the limiting factor of the design.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 February 2017, 15:14:14
So the 3042 version has 10(20) heat sinks vice 10(13)?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2017, 15:52:54
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: skiltao on 05 February 2017, 16:42:46
Perhaps this has been addressed, but the MUL lists the BJ3 with a 3042 introductory date, but the mech itself was first debuted in the Fourth Succession War Battlepack?  I have not been able to obtain a copy of this Battlepack to confirm, though.

Actually, it first debuted in Objective Raids (page 149) as an evolution of the BJ-2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 17:22:31
Actually, it first debuted in Objective Raids (page 149) as an evolution of the BJ-2.
Which makes sense from a nomenclature standpoint.. but since the BJ2 was produced in 3052, and the BJ3 was in various guises produced during the 4th Succession War and full production apparently in 3042... the designation doesn't really make sense... but what can you do?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 17:27:10
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x

thank you! Are there record sheets anywhere?  This is literally the only reference I have ever seen to a 3X.. the rest just list the BJ3 as being the first mech to enter production with DHS, apparently the corrosive ones, originally. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2017, 17:39:11
i presume the BJ-3X is referenced obliquely in this paragraph from TRO:3039... though the intro date of 3029 on the MUL muddles things.

Quote from: TRO: 3039 pg. 128
In the 3030s, the St. Ives Compact experimented with
recovered technology on some of their Blackjacks. One prototype
that showed great promise replace the autocannon
and one heat sink with a pair of Ceres Arms Smasher PPCs.
Three of the remaining heat sinks were replaced with experimental
“freezer” double efficiency units.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 February 2017, 17:46:03
thank you! Are there record sheets anywhere?
He originally posted in the wrong thread. There's only a quote left.
Quote
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x
The BJ-3 with all double heat sinks could not have existed that early.  So we created a BJ-3X that was a step toward the 3. It has not received a record sheet yet.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55482.msg1293852#msg1293852
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 17:59:00
He originally posted in the wrong thread. There's only a quote left.http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55482.msg1293852#msg1293852

Ah, OK, so this is a "new canon" stopgap fix, basically?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2017, 18:27:36
Yes, the "old" canon was contradictory.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: The_Livewire on 06 February 2017, 13:43:44
I apologize if I'm late or missed a comment.  If I did I couldn't find it.

Should Davion have access to the 3050 Clan omnis in the Jihad era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 February 2017, 18:00:31
Not all of them but most of them. Davion is part of the IS General list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 February 2017, 18:36:25
The availability trajectory makes sense if you imagine the 3050 omnis as battle salvage.  By the Jihad everyone has accumulated a good bit of Clan salvage thanks to Revival, Bulldog,  and Serpent.  But chronic borderjumping raids don't maintain that windall, and availability peters back out for the IS as time advances.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 07 February 2017, 16:21:22
BEAR CUB (Standard)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

should not have long range damage value of 1

its only long range weapon is a lrm5, converts with 0.3 points of damage, which qualify for a long range damage of 0*

(sources: TRO3075 and SSW)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 07 February 2017, 17:47:45
and again the KARHU.
the discussion and correction of the KARHU C (now PV 40) on the previous page made me wonder why the KARHU A costs 44 points.
compared to the C it lacks the melee weapon but adds 1 damage point at long range and an IF1. this should not be a 4 point difference.

KARHU A
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1748/karhu-a

offensive value
4+4+4+4 damage +1.5 size +1 IF1 = 18.5

defensive value
   MF = 10/8 + 0.5 jump = 1.25 + 0.5 = 1.75
   DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(2 tmm/10)] = 21.6, rounded to nearest half  = 21.5

   Defensive Value: 21.5 + 1.75 = 23.25

Final Point Value = 18.5 + 23.25 = 41.75

so the PV of the KARHU A should be 42.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 07 February 2017, 17:56:51
The Karhu A is jump-capable.  Using the current rules, that gives it a further +1 defence mod, for a 1.3 multiplier, not a 1.2.

The PV revision would remove that, but it's not finalized as of yet and so hasn't been implemented in the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 07 February 2017, 18:18:52
The Karhu A is jump-capable.  Using the current rules, that gives it a further +1 defence mod, for a 1.3 multiplier, not a 1.2.

The PV revision would remove that, but it's not finalized as of yet and so hasn't been implemented in the MUL.

i dont think so.
according to errata v1.1 for ASC the additional +1 is for jump-capable infantry, so the multiplier of 1.2 should be correct.
see also GoldBishops math and Nckestrels answer/correction to it:


. . DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(3 tmm/10)] ~ 23.4, or 23.5 (round, nearest half)

TMM is 2, not 3? Only infantry include the +1 for jump now, as of v1.1 errata.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 09 February 2017, 22:28:24
@Starbuck - the ASC v1.1 Errata is found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=40232.msg928691#msg928691

The change for calculating the Defensive Interaction Rating (DIR) is located on p.12 of the Errata, and reads as thus:
 
Quote from: ASC Errata v1.1
Defense Factor Modifiers Table (Ground Units) (p. 140)
1) Under “Unit’s Best Move Rate”
Unit is Jump-Capable
Change to:
Unit is Jump-Capable Infantry

...Since the Karhu is *not* Infantry, only its best movement is used to determine the multiplier (10", or +2).  I did not go back and correct my calculations; if I mislead you, please forgive me - mine are not official calculations.

Do note that it's my understanding that Jump-capable units still pay for Jump movement in the Movement Factor (MF)... but that's it.  (I sympathize if you feel this value is under-costed to jump-capable 'mechs, but this is not the thread to voice such a complaint).

Another note: the whole of the MUL is still in need of this (v1.1) update; many of the values, while unchecked, will be calculated slightly off (as of 9-Feb-2017, units are more expensive by about 1-2 PV depending on the unit).  One could assume that once the Heat Modification section is finalized, we'll see the "update" ripple through the MUL.  (I'm not privy to their time tables, so we can only guess).

**EDIT** I can confirm the reduced cost to the Karhu "A" (44 to 42) "B" (47 to 45) and G (48 to 46)... but again, these should come after the v.1.1 screens units off the MUL en masse.  (Mine are still unofficial calculations; I'm just a friendly calculating spectator)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 10 February 2017, 15:20:50
@GoldBishop

you did not mislead me at all.

i have the errata, but haven't looked thoroughly into conversion and calculating PV changes.
if you hadn't brought up the Karhu issue i would not have noticed the change in calculating the DIR.

and as you stated, it seems that a lot - if not all - jump-capable mechs are still calculated using the old (and now obsolete) formula.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: FrozenIceman on 13 February 2017, 00:22:34
All MUL entries for Infantry (as well as all TRO)'s are now drastically different due to Tech Manual Errata 3.0 changing and replacing nearly all BV and Damage Calculations for infantry weapons.

See an example of change impact to Heavy Jump Infantry (TRO 3085)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5884.msg1296048#msg1296048

I did check the standard weapons as well.  Rifle, LRM, SRM, and Flamer have all been changed, meaning any units (nearly all of them) that use those weapons are now incorrect in both damage output and BV in the entire MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 14 February 2017, 10:35:13
TI-1A Titan has a MUL date of 2787.
TRO: 3075 pg. 94 gives a prototype date of 2765 and references General Aleksandr Kerensky.

FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly mode, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790
Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 14 February 2017, 10:37:23
The CPLT-K2 and ZEU-6S intro dates are still being reviewed.  If there's something else asked about that hasn't been responded to, feel free to bump, I may have lost it in the backlog.
Thanks.

Ping!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 24 February 2017, 18:34:27
This one seems tied into the introduction of the snub-nosed PPC, which may require errata in its own right. However, given the data we have:

Falcon FLC-4Nb
The current fluff states that the Falcon was put into production with the remaining factories of the Rim Worlds Republic, namely Roe Weapon Systems of Apollo. This would have to have been done during the SLDF occupation. This puts the date of the FLC-4Nb no earlier than 2770 (conquest of Apollo) and no later than 2772, when Kerensky's troops departed the Republic. (LoT, pp 109-110) My suggested date would be 2770, since it states these were "rushed into production." But in reality, it could have been any time up to the launch of ALMARIC.

This would mean that an FLC-4N production facility existed on Apollo prior to this date. Unless the unlikely scenario exists where General Kerensky has a Falcon factory built from scratch out of a Roe Weapons Systems aerospace plant. So the FLC-4N should probably be added to the RWR Home Guard availability. Also, seems like there was some kind of upgrade done to the plant, if it existed. Seems a little strange that an Endo Steel frame would be readily available for a rushed unit. Feels like there should be another unit here preceding the -4Nb, like the FLC-4Nb-PP2 config. (I know that's not canon--just my impression from the timeline and the logical chain of events).

Phoenix Hawk PXH-1c
Going off of the FLC-4Nb fluff, the PXH-1c is said to come first: "Equipped with the prototype Snub-Nosed PPC first deployed in
the PHX-1c Phoenix Hawk.." (Op:Klondike, p. 163) This suggests that the Phoenix Hawk's upgrade came first. Given that Kerensky's Orion custom came in at 2754, this should be much earlier than 2784, possibly just inserting the Kerensky date of 2754.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 25 February 2017, 03:11:35
Firestarter FS9-K
THE MUL has this mech extinct since the 1st SW (and then available to only Liao) yet the description seems to indicate it was in production by the Lyrans but not as prolific as the base model and would certainly be more numerous than the 'Mirage'.

Can this be reviewed for canonicity?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 25 February 2017, 14:33:31
The only data we were able to find on the FS9-K was that it was not produced for long in the LC; it was overshadowed by the FS9-H; and the only reference to it at all was in the Liao Field Report. We assumed that some were sold to all of the great houses but that they all turned them down with the run being dumped off on Liao for one reason or another.

Not exactly the best information to work with on that one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 26 February 2017, 03:08:05
thanks cavingjan; it certainly sounds as though there is limited information. Could I suggest that its not unlike the Whitworth and therefore a lot of these machines went into the open market and given it had more than the one year of production versus the 'Mirage' it would be more common and you could have quite a few in private hands. Given the availability of parts it would be safe to assume these survived. I would also like to think that it's not unlike the Blackjack in that mech warriors figured out over time that the bad reputation was unjustified???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 04 March 2017, 15:27:14
Sprite [Standard]
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5109/sprite-ultraheavy-protomech-standard

Conversion information and tables per AlphaStrike Companion p.90-141 {errata noted}
Stats from Wars of Reaving - Supplemental p.50

OFV = 9.5
DFV = 8.25 {8.75 pre-Jump errata}
GFB = 0

Total PV = 17.75 {18.25} or 18; currently listed as 20

Sprite [2]
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5636/sprite-ultraheavy-protomech-2

per Wars of Reaving - Supplemental p.51...
Units are missing "LTAG" among listed specials
{No apparent increase in cost when compiled with latest Jump-capable errata}

**disregard; I found the errata**
Title: Exterminator
Post by: TigerShark on 08 March 2017, 19:02:43
Exterminator EXT-4D

Current: SLDF, Royal Divisions, RWA/AEAF Terran Corps
Suggested: IS General, SLDF, Royal Divisions, RWA/AEAF Terran Corps

Why? The EXT-4D came out in 2620. 10 years later, the stealth version (EXT-4C) came out. The -4D has no restricted technologies whatsoever. The XLE and AMS were pieces of equipment on units which were sold as SLDF surplus to Member States (and the Periphery). It doesn't even have a Guardian ECM Suite or Active Probe.

Seems to me like the EXT-4D was the "consumer-grade" model, sold off to prospective buyers, while the EXT-4C and SPR-4F were kept as Royal-exclusive, fulfilling the mission of "seek-and-destroy". That would explain its appearance in Great House RATs and the sheer numbers surviving into the early Succession Wars. Had it been SLDF / HAF exclusive, most (if not all) of the advanced units (i.e: Devastator, Nightstar, Spector, etc.) would have been destroyed during the drive for Terra or evacuated on the Exodus. The standard models (EXT-4D) would probably be left behind; and they were.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alfaryn on 09 March 2017, 08:39:39
Trooper TRP-1 and Trooper TP-1R

Trooper (no exact designation) is mentioned in TRO 3039 (on p. 242) as an original name for a 'Mech, that later become known as Flea. The MUL lists Trooper TRP-1 as a 'Mech from TRO 3039, but lists no official record sheet for it. There is also Trooper TRP-1R in the MUL from XTRO Primitives V. Both TRP-1 and TRP-1R have the same introduction date (2475).

I don't own XTRO Primitives V, so I can't be 100% certain, but I suspect, that TRP-1 and TRP-1R are supposed to be the same 'Mech variant (XTRO Primitives V provides official stats for the 'Mech mentioned in TRO 3039) in which case one of the MUL entries needs to be removed.

Recommendation - remove the Trooper with designation not matching the XTRO (Trooper TRP-1 most likely) from the MUL, unless Trooper TRP-1 and Trooper TP-1R are indeed meant to be two different models.

EDIT: Strange thing... When I look for the Trooper in MUL by name, the TRP-1 variant is not listed, but when I list all TRO 3039 units by source - it is there. A leftover after removal somehow done incorrectly, perhaps?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 March 2017, 11:02:17
Per the TRO:3075 errata doc, the Von Rohrs (Hebis) should be changed to Von Rohrs (Hebi)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alfaryn on 09 March 2017, 20:55:37
The Trooper TRP-1 and Trooper TP-1R situation (described two posts above) seems to be mostly resolved, but they still link to each other as "Other Models". Other than that I must say I'm pleasantly surprised, that MUL maintainers react so quickly to errata reports. Good job guys.

Edit: Huh? I could swear, that when I wrote this post the TRP-1 was removed from the list of units in TRO 3039, but it appears to be back there again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 March 2017, 00:46:11
I reported the same issue a month or so ago. They generally fix errors in fairly short order. If something isn't attended to, I suspect there is some internal conversation that takes place.

If you search for units and uncheck the 'Only units w/Battle Value' box, the mysterious TRP-1 reappears
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 10 March 2017, 03:41:45
Source: TRO 3050
Issue: Wrong Era icon
Affects:
Ripper Infantry Transport (Infantry) - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Puma Assault Tank PAT-007 - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Assassin ASN-30 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War
Ahab AHB-643 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 March 2017, 16:22:27
Unit: the Dragon-5nr (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/912/dragon-drg-5nr).

Issue: It has a C3 slave but lacks the C3S and MQ1 specials.  I did not compute PV to see if it already reflects the C3.  I suspect it does not, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 11 March 2017, 19:05:47
Unit: the Dragon-5nr (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/912/dragon-drg-5nr).

Issue: It has a C3 slave but lacks the C3S and MQ1 specials.  I did not compute PV to see if it already reflects the C3.  I suspect it does not, though.

I did some fiddling with a builder program, and adding the C3Slave would put the Dragon -5Nr overweight by 1 ton.
However, it looks like the Record Sheet (RS3085_ONN p.88) is in error, as the TRO entry upgrade for the Dragon (3085, p.190) does not mention an Artemis upgrade to the LRMs.

Dropping Artemis for the C3 Slave would make up for that that 1-ton difference. (record sheet needs the errata).

As far as "PV" calcs?  No real change in damage, so once the Record Sheet Errata goes through, I suppose the following...
OFV = ~12.5
DFV = 19.25
GFB = 1.0
Total = 32.75 ~ 33 PV
Specials: CASE, C3S, MHQ1, IF1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 14 March 2017, 00:43:10
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2033/marauder-mad-1r

Page 10 of the Field Report 2765 Periphery states that "Beginning in 2753, MMM also began production of the MAD-1R Marauder under a contract with the Free Worlds League that allows the MAF to receive twenty-five percent of each production runs. This has added hundreds of Marauders to the otherwise underweight MAF BattleMech forces."

So under the Star League era, the Magistracy of Canopus should be added to the list of users, and I'd suggest that since "hundreds" existed in the MAF, that even with the loses of the Periphery Uprising, it should still be around in noticeable numbers for part of the First Succession War. Thus it should be listed as available to the MoC during the First Succession War as well (the 1st Succession War RAT backs this up, though that's not the greatest source, I know).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 23 March 2017, 01:02:50
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 25 March 2017, 09:48:03
Just checking in to rattle the cage around the CPLT-K2 Catapult intro date question/debate, figuring it has been some time, and hoping it was not lost in the shuffle.  It shan't be appearing in HBS's upcoming Battletech game, regardless, but for personal sanity, am hoping to see it restored to it's proper pre 3025 introduction date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 25 March 2017, 11:59:13
It will be pre-3025: that's guaranteed.  It's just a matter of nailing down the exact date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 25 March 2017, 21:27:13
It will be pre-3025: that's guaranteed.  It's just a matter of nailing down the exact date.

heck, just having that confirmed is a huge weight off. Lurf mah K2s!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 26 March 2017, 07:41:14
Any update on the Firefly?

FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly model, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790

Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 26 March 2017, 13:06:41
Any update on the Firefly?

FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly model, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790

Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."

Look up the FFL-3A. It doesn't have a Battle Value listed in the MUL, but it's the first one introduced [2679]. The BV would be 797.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 28 March 2017, 10:40:00
Where's the record sheet on that one?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2017, 13:03:51
Where's the record sheet on that one?

There isn't one.  It was described but no record sheet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 31 March 2017, 16:09:15
What is the status of things like the Roughneck from MWO?  We keep hearing Randall Bills has declared them canon, was curious if that considered so, or only after/if they are actually added to a "paper" CGL supplement? Also how this affects the unique "hero" versions of mechs?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:52:38
DRG-5Nr fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:56:25
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.

The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:58:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2033/marauder-mad-1r

Page 10 of the Field Report 2765 Periphery states that "Beginning in 2753, MMM also began production of the MAD-1R Marauder under a contract with the Free Worlds League that allows the MAF to receive twenty-five percent of each production runs. This has added hundreds of Marauders to the otherwise underweight MAF BattleMech forces."

So under the Star League era, the Magistracy of Canopus should be added to the list of users, and I'd suggest that since "hundreds" existed in the MAF, that even with the loses of the Periphery Uprising, it should still be around in noticeable numbers for part of the First Succession War. Thus it should be listed as available to the MoC during the First Succession War as well (the 1st Succession War RAT backs this up, though that's not the greatest source, I know).

MAD-1R adjusted, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:04:29
CPLT-K2 updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:07:01
Source: TRO 3050
Issue: Wrong Era icon
Affects:
Ripper Infantry Transport (Infantry) - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Puma Assault Tank PAT-007 - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Assassin ASN-30 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War
Ahab AHB-643 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War

Updated, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:09:09
Duplicate Trooper deleted.
The older entry didn't have a BV, so it didn't show up in some searches that automatically have "only units w/Battle Value" selected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:50:29
TI-1A Titan has a MUL date of 2787.
TRO: 3075 pg. 94 gives a prototype date of 2765 and references General Aleksandr Kerensky.
Updated, thanks.
Quote
FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly mode, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790
Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."
FFL-3A was the SLDF model.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:55:10
BEAR CUB (Standard)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

should not have long range damage value of 1

its only long range weapon is a lrm5, converts with 0.3 points of damage, which qualify for a long range damage of 0*

(sources: TRO3075 and SSW)

Bear Cub updated, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 10:07:08
TRO 3039 page 58 states the Machine Gun variant of the Goblin is a "rare Kurita variant".  The MUL lists no Draconis Combine availability for this variant after the Early Succession War era (where it's IS General, Mercenary, and Periphery General): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1224/goblin-medium-tank-mg

Curiously, the SRM variant of the Goblin is listed with exclusive Draconis Combine (and Rasalhague, during its existence) availability after the Early Succession War era: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1225/goblin-medium-tank-srm

It appears the two variants were confused at some point with regard to their availability.  Recommend adding Draconis Combine/Rasalhague availability to the MG variant, and wider availability to the SRM variant (which isn't characterized as a "Kurita" variant).  The Combine already has access to the base and LRM variants.

Goblin MG updated to being DC (and FRR), Goblin SRM updated to match Goblin LRM.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 10:11:23
Constable Pacification Suit (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=constable)

The MUL restricts availability to the Rasalhague Dominion.   According to its source material:

The source goes on to give an example of a notable ISF operation making use of the suits, and one of the two notable pilots is a Combine agent.

According to the fluff, even though there's no evidence of its use by the actual military, the paramilitaries of the Combine seem to make notable use of suit, even if it may or may not be widespread use by those paramilitaries.  Should Draconis Combine availability be added?
Yep, DC added for Constable suits. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 10:28:55
I could easily be missing something here, but I was wondering about the Faction Availability of the Rifleman IIC 8 and 5;

Of the IIC 8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8)) TRO3085 says:
"This variant appeared in forces from all three Clans who soiled New Earth with their presence ... Though offered to all Inner Sphere factions, prior to 3080 the IIC 8 only appeared with the Sharks, Wolves, Falcons, Bears and AFFS. Since then, the DCMS and Duchy of Oriente have both aquired the design in small numbers."

This doesn't seem to agree with what's in the MUL for the Rifleman IIC 8.
correct, adjusted.

Quote
Of the Rifleman IIC 5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5)), TRO3085 continues:
"In a futile attempt to confuse us, the putrid Falcons deployed a second variant of the Rifleman IIC ... The second variant identified by the Blakists is the IIC 5."

This is presumably the Rifleman IIC refit the Jade Falcons have coming out of Red Devil Industries on Pandora, but as per the MUL, it is not available to the Falcons but is available to a host of factions that the Falcons generally wouldn't trade with (trade of the merchant or warrior caste variety). I think the IIC 5 was mistakenly thought to have come from the Diamond Shark line on Twycross in the MUL.

http://www.battlecorps.com/BC2/news.html?article=258 specifically states the IIC 5 is Diamond Shark.  But you are correct that TR3085 makes it clear the Falcons used it as well, and our production notes have both CJF and CDS making it.  Adding CJF.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 10:31:04
STINGER  STG-5G

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3062/stinger-stg-5g

should not have an OV 1

it has only one weapon, a light PPC with capacitor, and 10 DHS (according to RS3085 PP, and i checked the errata thread whether it are DHS or SHS).
even with single HS it could not overheat (11 heat build-up vs. 10 heat dissipation), so it should be corrected to OV 0 and PV 13 (it loses one point in the calculation for OV value).

(and btw, it would be impossible, even with AS conversion up-rounding all weapon damage, to deal 2 damage points with only a light PPC w/ capacitor.  ;) )

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 April 2017, 12:38:22
The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.

The problem with VRT is that it actually affects PV as a Special mentioned in the conversion rules.  This makes it unique among quirks, and probably warrants inclusion as an exception.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 April 2017, 13:06:58
Do you add the cost to the base unit with a note to reduce the cost if you aren't playing with the optional quirks rules or do you just add a note with the additional costs if you are playing with those additional quirk rules. There is no place other than notes to show quirks so it wouldn't be on the card as the MUL is currently designed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 April 2017, 13:17:01
Cost the unit appropriately.  The Special is defined in the usual place; I suggest the exception to be treat VRT as always in play.  That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely.  Given how much easier it is to edit the MUL than it is to issue errata for a book that most people might realize had changed, my preference is for the former.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 13:31:30
That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely. 

Bingo.  Same as all the other quirks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 04 April 2017, 10:50:33
CPLT-K2 updated.

Thank you for that.  Am curious about the extinct from 3020 to 3033 part, if that was based on some errata, or a bit of a salve to make conflicting info work a little more harmoniously?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2017, 10:55:43
Thank you for that.  Am curious about the extinct from 3020 to 3033 part, if that was based on some errata, or a bit of a salve to make conflicting info work a little more harmoniously?

Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 04 April 2017, 11:00:11
Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.

Ah, that works well.  Good to know and makes sense.  Plus as the entire TRO 2750 knows... extinct is seldom as extinct as one thinks.  So I reckon it's not too far of a stretch for there to be another stray or three like the one in Brion's Legion, but none in any Kurita House Unit, etc......and yeah, rare enough to be for all intents and purposes, extinct. And let's be honest, even before Hoff... it was essentially extinct with that info.  Very interesting stuff. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 04 April 2017, 11:32:41
Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.

Are there any other BattleMechs that have a similar "period of extinction" in the MUL?  I was under the impression the MUL only dealt with introduction dates specifically and steered clear of "extinction" dates.  Is this a change in policy?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2017, 11:47:38
Are there any other BattleMechs that have a similar "period of extinction" in the MUL?  I was under the impression the MUL only dealt with introduction dates specifically and steered clear of "extinction" dates.  Is this a change in policy?

It's an interesting tidbit that I thought to include.  We put them in public notes every now and then.  There is no policy on the public notes. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 04 April 2017, 15:21:23
Zeus ZEU-9S2 seems to have REAR 1/1/- ability in its AS card even though the 'Mech does not have any rear-facing weapons.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5459/zeus-zeu-9s2
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/5459?skill=4


On the other hand, Zeus ZEU-9S seems to be missing REAR 1/1/- ability. I believe single rear-mounted Medium Pulse Laser is enough for that.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3644/zeus-zeu-9s
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/3644?skill=4

Posted this note long-ish time ago, seems these got missed. Not sure if point values and other stats are correct. Other Zeuses don't seem to have issues at cursory glance.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2017, 15:31:15
Posted this note long-ish time ago, seems these got missed. Not sure if point values and other stats are correct. Other Zeuses don't seem to have issues at cursory glance.

Yep, thanks for the reminder, ZEU-9S and ZEU-9S2 updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 April 2017, 12:25:12
A few more Blackjack Issues:

Had someone point out the Blackjack Prototype, the BJ-1X, is listed as being produced in 2769.... 12 years after the later production model, the BJ-1 entered production (2757).  Not sure if this implies that the original Prototype BJ-1X was later released as a full production model, or just a fact check/typo issue?

Also noted that the BJ-3X http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x does not show on the base BJ entry? http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=blackjack
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 April 2017, 13:32:21
BJ-3X http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x does not show on the base BJ entry? http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=blackjack

it doesn't have a BV assigned so it will not appear by default. you have to click the "Only units w/Battle Value" checkbox off.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 April 2017, 14:03:00
BJ-1X intro date fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 April 2017, 17:35:05
Vedette Medium Tank (Standard) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3395/vedette-medium-tank-standard)
Vedette Medium Tank (AC2) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3388/vedette-medium-tank-ac2)
Vedette Medium Tank (Liao) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3391/vedette-medium-tank-liao)

Image for these three should be the older TRO:3039 version, not the updated TRO:3058 version.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 April 2017, 21:38:58
BJ-1X intro date fixed.
thx!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 April 2017, 14:05:35
is there a way to add RS: 3145u as a searchable source? it would be easier than having to add all eight 3145 faction TROs when looking at 3145/50 units.

thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 16 April 2017, 22:49:20
Very minor thing but... The Celerity CLR-02-X-D has wrong intro date (3052). Kinda, maybe.
The issue is the XL Gyro the Celerity uses. The XL Gyro is prototyped in about 3055 according to Interstellar Operations pg 48.
On the other hand, XTRO ComStar describes the Celerity project starting in 3052. Now, perhaps the project was indeed started then but assuming IO is correct, then the first functional Celerities can't have been produced before 3055 (indeed, perhaps XL gyro is basically a side-effect of the project). Seems to me that adjusting the 'Mech's intro date makes more sense than issuing errata for IO and XTRO ComStar so i figured i'd drop this here rather than somewhere else.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5553/celerity-clr-02-x-d

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 02 May 2017, 12:30:01
The update section on the front page of the MUL hasn't been updated in over a year.

I would like to know what new sources or units have been added in that time so that I can update my cards.

I follow this thread so I have all the errata listed here to try to keep my printed cards correct.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 May 2017, 09:36:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/43/annihilator-c

This Annihilator lists its TRO as 3050U, but I can't find any mention of the C variant in the writeup in 3050U, and so its source should probably be set as Operation Klondike, where it is mentioned in the writeup Also, the Record Sheet Source says "RS3050Uu-C" but the C and C2 are in RS3050Uu-I. They're also in RSOK, but I'm not sure which one is newer at this point, but I would recommend RS3050Uu-I since its more mainstream.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/45/annihilator-c-2

The TRO for this is listed as "RS3050Uu-C" but obviously that's not a TRO, and should probably be set as Operation KLONDIKE, since that's where its mentioned. The Record Sheet source is technically correct, but it might be better to use RS3050Uu-I, since that's the more mainstream product.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1011/eyleuka-eyl-4a

Ths date is 3068, which is the Jihad Era, but the Era Symbol is the Civil War symbol. Since the design has Machine Gun Arrays, which debuted in 3068, the symbol should be changed to the Jihad Symbol. I suppose you could try to argue prototypes or something, but either way, the date and the Era Symbol should match.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 May 2017, 09:49:00
Thanks, Annihilators and Eyleuka fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 May 2017, 09:49:51
The update section on the front page of the MUL hasn't been updated in over a year.

I would like to know what new sources or units have been added in that time so that I can update my cards.

I follow this thread so I have all the errata listed here to try to keep my printed cards correct.

Thanks

I don't have such a list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 13 May 2017, 23:44:22
Galahad GLH-1D
Current availability has this at several factions, along with the SLDF, HAF, and AEAF. As per an old post from Herb, it was a one-off production line and wasn't continuously produced. Suggesting a rating of "Extinct".

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38360.msg898036#msg898036
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 May 2017, 00:29:31
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6522/gorgon-carrier-standard

Gorgon Carrier missing image

edit: also
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6520/caerleon-standard

Caerleon small craft missing image
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 14 May 2017, 13:11:26
I don't have such a list.

So, there's no information on what new sources or units have been added in the last year? No way to know what's new?

I have hundreds of different units, and there's no way to find out if new variants have been posted without going through each individual entry?

How hard would it be to post an update on the front page whenever a new source is added? "Hey guys, all the mechs from TRO: 3155 have finished being added."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 May 2017, 14:22:34
If it's not listed in this thread, I haven't added or changed any units in years.  So it would be impossible for me to list anything else, I haven't done anything else to list.  I can't prove anybody else hasn't, I do t have such a list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 May 2017, 15:57:53
Primitive V was the last set of units I've entered. Corrections have been done. Judging by the volume of the change log, adding a step of logging it manually here wouldn't be realistic. I know at one point in time I was averaging 10 changes a day if the log was any indication of work and I was only one person.

Sorry.

I'm in the habit of getting a fresh AS image each time just to make sure I'm up to date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 May 2017, 15:59:16
Based on personal observations, the main coverage holes right now are:

*3039 and 3050 (IS/SL) units don't extend past the Early Republic
*Zero Clan tables exist for anything pre-Clan Invasion.
*There is no public data for the Age of War
*The status of TRO:3057 units remains in limbo

There is still some work to be done on non-TRO sources, but I suspect a good portion of that is marking dozens of units as extinct an era or two past when they debuted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 May 2017, 16:06:27
Very good observations. I burned out before getting the 39/50 IS units. Warships aren't my strength. PreInvasion clan may appear when Golden Century comes out.

I doubt we will see Age of War unless we get better source materials. There were just too many holes to fill to make it worth the time. Star League was difficult enough and there are more books in that era to work with.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 May 2017, 11:11:34
Does Morgan Kell's personal Archer really have an intro date of 2474? Seems like it got the ARC-2R's by mistake. I would imagine the custom would have originated in the 3010s?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5809/archer-arc-2r-morgan


I doubt we will see Age of War unless we get better source materials. There were just too many holes to fill to make it worth the time. Star League was difficult enough and there are more books in that era to work with.

That's the impression I got from poking at the Age of War stuff for some personal use projects. About two-thirds of the mechs are pretty cut and dry. There are very few indications that many of the primitives or a number of the house designs (e.g. Hammerhands, Koschei, Crossbow) found their way out of the initial designers' hands with a few exceptions. The first wave of introtech designs largely pops up between the late 2400s and early 2500s that are already widely dispersed. You get hints of mass-proliferation of Hegemony designs from both the Talos' and Hector's writeups, but to where and how quickly is, at best, inference and guesswork.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 15 May 2017, 12:32:51
Morgan drove a stock 2R archer so yes it does share the same dates. I think it has the same faction data too if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 May 2017, 16:18:14
a stock 2R archer

well i'll be damned.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 17 May 2017, 23:27:15
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.
The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.

I don't mean offense in questioning your decision, but VRT isn't solely a quirk.  It's a special Ability, defined on page 109 of the Alpha Strike Core Rule Book, it's usage is further explained on page 103 of the core rule book, where it is explicitly called out as a special ability, and it's conversion rules are listed in the Alpha Strike Companion on page 133 in the 'Battletech Conversions" rules, right after UMU and right before VTX#.  Additionally, while VRT may be listed in the quirks section, it is listed there right after Trailer Hitch and searchlight (Page 64 ASC).  Trailer hitch and searchlight are both a design quirk AND special ability (HTC or SRCH)  and have been added to cards (link to units with HTC special ability (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=HTC&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=))(link to units with SRCH special ability (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=SRCH&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=)), so to say that VRT can't be done because it's a "quirk" is insufficient in my opinion, with how well documented it is, and with the core book explicitly calling it a special ability, and providing rules for it as part of the core rules (which do not even include quirks).
In short, I ask you to reconsider, and having VRT added to the aforementioned unit's card, as well as any other unit that can be pointed at as meeting the criteria as per the conversion rules (I don't know of any other unit that has this, personally, but if I find one, I'll let you know).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 18 May 2017, 00:08:37
Cost the unit appropriately.  The Special is defined in the usual place; I suggest the exception to be treat VRT as always in play.  That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely.  Given how much easier it is to edit the MUL than it is to issue errata for a book that most people might realize had changed, my preference is for the former.
Bingo.  Same as all the other quirks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Azakael on 18 May 2017, 13:34:17
Faction Availability on the Bandit Hovercraft base and variants:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3782/bandit-hovercraft-base

- List Wolf's Dragoons as the only one with access.

- Most if not all variants list Mercenaries, and later Kell Hounds from Fed Com Civil War as having access.

It stands to reason, that the same faction availability that applies to the variants should apply to the <Base> model.

Fix: Change FCCW and Jihad Faction Availability on the Base to match availability on variants.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 23 May 2017, 20:52:59
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2186/minotaur-standard

Errata had already been issued for the Record Sheet, but the Unit Card doesn't match the TRO entry (TRO3060 p.203)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=4021.msg272449#msg272449

Per the ASC p.90-141
Weapon Values should be 2/2/0 [0.7x2 or 1.4/1.4/0 for 2 ERML]
PV should increase to 12 PV (a +3 increase from the change in damage)
...everything else looks good.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 24 May 2017, 02:59:16
Rim Worlds Republic
Missing the Aegis Cruiser from both lists. We know that at least one existed from Historical Turning Points: New Dallas. How do I remember this? The ship was named the RWS Tigershark.  ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 May 2017, 09:27:19
Asshur Fast Reconnaissance Vehicle has TAG as an AS ability but does not have TAG
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/135/asshur-fast-reconnaissance-vehicle-standard

Asshur Artillery Spotter does not have TAG as an AS ability but does have TAG
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/133/asshur-artillery-spotter-standard

Solution: remove TAG from the former, add TAG to the latter


Xotl: Corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 30 May 2017, 07:52:35
Colt Medium Fighter (From Experimental Technical Readout: Primitives V)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7415/colt-medium-fighter (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7415/colt-medium-fighter)

ISSUE:
MUL entry for the Colt Medium Fighter (SRM) Variant is missing. The SRM variant is noted in the original entry in XTRO: P5, with no record sheet published. 

SOLUTION: Add missing page for fluff variant, only difference from the original Colt Medium Fighter is straight swap of LRM5s for SRM4 on either wing and LRM ammo is also straight switch for 1 ton of SRM ammo.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: sadlerbw on 19 June 2017, 17:12:41
ISSUE: Bear Cub and Bear Cub 3 PV Incorrect. The Bear Cub 2 is fine though.

Currently, the PV for the standard is showing as 22PV:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

while the 3 is showing at 20PV:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/316/bear-cub-3

This makes no sense on its face because the 3 does MORE damage than the standard, and is identical in all other respects, but it costs LESS PV.

SOLUTION:

According to the Alpha Strike PV spreadsheet that Xotl provided for evaluating the upcoming PV revision, the current PV's for those units are 19PV for the Bear Cub Standard, and 20PV for the Bear Cub 3. I double-checked and those numbers seem correct.

Standard:
Offensive = Dmg 9 [3+3+0] + size 0.5 + Specials[IF0*] 0.5 = 10
Defensive = MV 2 + DIR 6.5 [(Armor 4 + Structure 1) * Defense 1.3] = 8.5
Total = 10 + 8.5 = 18.5 round normally to 19PV.

Standard:
Offensive = Dmg 10 [3+3+1] + size 0.5 + Specials[IF1] 1 = 11.5
Defensive = MV 2 + DIR 6.5 [(Armor 4 + Structure 1) * Defense 1.3] = 8.5
Total = 11.5 + 8.5 = 20PV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 19 June 2017, 17:26:19
As best as I can tell, under the current (non-revised) PVs, both should have the same value (20).  However, the spreadsheet that uses the old formulas and which we derived all the current MUL PVs from has a rounding error compared to how the Companion lays things out, so that may explain why you're getting a 1-point difference.

I'll change the Standard to 20 PV, placing them closer together.  If/when the revision goes through, the rounding error will be fixed; I don't want to adjust it now, because that would be a bunch of work only to be thrown out when the revised values are implemented.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 19 June 2017, 18:19:05
WFT-2X "Bear Trap" (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3557/wolf-trap-tora-wft-2x-bear-trap)

Issue: The unit is armed with a Silver Bullet Gauss which according to the ASC conversion rules on pg 104 qualifies for the FLK special.  The Card lacks this special.

Solution: Add FLK 1/1/1 to the specials field.  PV should not be affected as this special is not invoked as an offensive special factor.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bosefius on 27 June 2017, 05:10:43
Hi, the MUL is missing the Stalker STK-3Fk. It's from Era Report:2750 (Page 129). I am not sure if there is a record sheet for it, I can't find one.

The only reason it's come up is that it's one of only two mechs specifically mentioned for Inner Sphere forces in the new World Wide Event.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 11 July 2017, 20:34:37
This was added during the Blackout! http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5870/stalker-stk-3fk

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CDAT on 13 July 2017, 17:07:23
A question came up and was posted here (lost with last hiccup), the question is about the LCT-1M according to the MUL is is listed as extinct (as of 2901) but several of us can find no sources other than the MUL that says it is/or should be extinct, on the other hand we can find sources that imply it is still active as late as 3039 at least.

According to TRO 3025 "The Model 1M Locust reduces its armor and carries two LRM 5-packs, 24 rounds of ammunition, and the popular Martell medium laser . This version is used mainly by House Davion's Ceti Hussars." It also goes on to say "Model 1E is the Locust variant least produced and least resembling the others . Reducing its armor in favor of more weaponry, the 1E carries two arm-mounted medium lasers as well as two small lasers." and then in TRO 3039 "The 1M variant, popular in Davion space, further reduces the Locust’s armor in order to mount two LRM-5 launchers." So if it is produced more than the 1E but the 1E is not extinct, and in 3039 it is popular in Davion space, also both TRO's talk about it in the present tense not past. So I guess the question is there a super special secret source that only the MUL folks have that says it is extinct as several of us have looked and can not find anything, or are we just missing the snake in front of our faces?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2017, 01:55:23
Question: Phoenix Hawk LAM PHX - in the MUL, all the records show it as size 1. At 50 tons, should be size 2.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2m
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4821/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk1rb
(no AS card for the C version).

For correction in the next pass, thanks.


Xotl: Corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alfaryn on 14 July 2017, 06:45:53
Here are some more 50-55 ton LAMs in the MUL with size 1 instead of 2:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4824/phoenix-hawk-lam-mk-i-phx-hk1
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4825/phoenix-hawk-lam-mk-i-phx-hk1r
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4823/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2m
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5039/shadow-hawk-lam-shd-x1
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5040/shadow-hawk-lam-shd-x2


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2017, 07:03:50
Quote
Xotl: Corrected, thanks.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 15 July 2017, 22:50:47
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 15 July 2017, 23:52:39
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?

Such a durable Mech should last centuries....
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 16 July 2017, 07:08:46
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?

I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 July 2017, 16:18:03
I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

Objectives: The Clans (ca. 3079) has the Falcons as the only producers of the original Loki in the Inner Sphere. With all of the fighting, I could see the Wolves' stock running out by 3100 when they lose access on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 20 July 2017, 15:42:53
Objectives: The Clans (ca. 3079) has the Falcons as the only producers of the original Loki in the Inner Sphere. With all of the fighting, I could see the Wolves' stock running out by 3100 when they lose access on the MUL.
I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

Alright, sounds like I may just have a poor memory then, haha.

It is pretty safe to assume the Wolf Empire could potentially maintain some that they already possessed (via salvage) or claim some as isorla from the Falcons, no?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 20 July 2017, 16:54:56
That's outside the purview of the MUL, but in general any major faction in BattleTech can field at least a few examples of most 'Mechs. The faction availability notes in the MUL (and other sources) should be treated as guidelines, not straitjackets.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bosefius on 26 July 2017, 04:43:41
Hi, I have a function request. Is there any way to add a function so that we can just click on an era and see everything available to every faction (essentially, am average lost of all units available in a specific era)? If this already exists I'm missing how to do it.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 26 July 2017, 06:11:02
You can do it with the regular filters. Just use the available era filter. Don't specify a faction in that filter.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 July 2017, 08:56:49
The following units are listed as 'Standard' tech. Looking at the record sheets, they should be classified as 'Introductory'

Darter Scout Car
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/836/darter-scout-car-standard
Korvin Tank KRV-3
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1817/korvin-tank-krv-3
Marsden MBT II
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2084/marsden-mbt-ii
Marsden MBT II-A
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2086/marsden-mbt-ii-a
Merkava Heavy Tank Mk VIII
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2176/merkava-heavy-tank-mk-viii
Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank (Standard)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2761/sabaku-kaze-heavy-scout-hover-tank-standard

The Cobra Transport VTOL (Original) has no rules level, but the record sheet classifies it as introtech
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3971/cobra-transport-vtol-original

The Darter Scout Car (SRM 2) lacks a BV (167) and a Rules Level (record sheet tags it as introtech)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4050/darter-scout-car-srm2
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 01 August 2017, 17:28:25
After setting up a complete set of factories for our online campaign, I did notice that there was a notable lack of advanced tech in the RWA, despite the language of FR:2765:

Quote
Intelligence Command reports also show that, since the Twentieth Army left Republic space [2755], each of these divisions has been slowly cycling older BattleMechs out of its ranks, replacing them with models normally seen only from Hegemony sources.

This seems to indicate that, for 12 years, the Imperial Divisions were modernizing with SLDF equipment. Feels like some of the TRO:2750 designs would be listed in the "Rim Worlds Republic: Home Guard", such as those listed in 2765 on page 18 (Black Knight, Excalibur, Highlander, King Crab) and on page 19 (Atlas).

Surely, these advanced designs went with the Liberation Army to Terra, but for those 12 years, they were in the Republic proper. I'm sure it's come up before, but just asking if you guys can take a look. The list feels a bit "anemic" for a force capable of defeating the SLDF on its home ground. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 August 2017, 23:31:51
The Titan TI-1Aj and Titan TI-1Ar have intro dates of 3023, but Late Republic Era badges. The -1Aj contains a number of advanced technologies that do not exist at the time. The -1Ar. while using strictly Star League tech, is quite out of place in the 3020s as well.

Solution: Was the intro date for these supposed to be 3123?

---------------

The Victor VTR-9B (Li) from OTP: Death to Mercenaries is listed as Standard tech. I can't see any advanced tech on the sheet.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3402/victor-vtr-9b-li

edit: Same with the Annihilator ANH-1E
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/36/annihilator-anh-1e
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 05 August 2017, 00:13:53
Hachiwara HCA-6P had incorrect Armor value (208 points of Hardened Armor is 14 AV, not 10).  Was missing CR from specials list (Hardened Armor), OV should have been 1, not 2.  (5 Medium Lasers + ER PPC w/Capacitor = 3.25 damage, adjusted by heat to 2.32), PV should have been 48.

Card adjusted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 14 August 2017, 22:57:56
Cauldron-Born X lacking long range damage value (The RAC is a Clan model, not Inner Sphere) and has CASE instead of CASEII special.  Both errors corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 16 August 2017, 21:39:05
Sunder SD1-OR had an incorrect LR damage value of 1.  Changed it to a 3 (The Large Pulse Lasers are Clantech)