Author Topic: ATOW Generic Vehicles  (Read 3666 times)

NullVoid

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ATOW Generic Vehicles
« on: 16 February 2014, 19:06:27 »
These vehicles are listed in the "Personal Vehicles" table on page ATOW324; they are all marked with the bloody double-doubledagger, which means: "‡‡These generic vehicles were not detailed in Technical Readout: Vehicle Annex Revised."

Say, that sounds like a challenge! O0 Sarna.net makes little mention of those; there's no straightforward way of deriving from these tables how much tonnage a Jeep or Jitney would take on your DropShip. This thread implies some of these existed on a previous rule-incarnation on Mechwarrior 1st Edition, but (a) I do not have that book, nor can I reasonably expect to get it, and (b) it uses obsolete fractional-accounting Combat Vehicles rules which will never match with the current ATOW tables.  Finally, aside from the price, these numbers look way too fractional for someone not to have calculated these before entering them on the table.

So, our candidates are:
Quote
Hovercraft/WiGE:
  • Air Car Hovercraft
  • Feicui Aircar Hovercraft
  • Hurricane Hover Car
  • Turbofan Car
and
Wheeled/Tracked:
  • Avanti Luxury Sedan
  • Jeep
  • Jitney (Minibus)
  • Macadam Ground Car
  • Speeder
  • Transport, Heavy
  • Typhoon Ground Car
  • Jet Sled Tracked Snowmobile

Now, let's get crackin'! The table gives us Tech, Availability and Legality Ratings; since these are civilian and paramilitary transports, I'll assume the TR is the Structural Tech Rating since the Growler entry specifically mentions its ladder and manipulator arm; any other special equipment which might raise the overall TR should have been mentioned, too.  Availability and Legality ratings will be summarily ignored, for simplicity's sake.  The table also gives us cargo space, the number of crew and passengers, the safe and flank speed, the armor distribution and BAR, and, most importantly, the fuel statistics: amount, type and range.

Now, we know that fuel mass is a function of the range, the fuel type, and the engine mass.  This means that, from the information on the table, we can determine a range of engine masses that would cause the listed range to require the listed mass of fuel. From the engine mass, we can estimate whether the vehicle is small, medium, or large, and determine the ranges of total vehicle mass for each prospective motive type.  Finally, we pick a likely value and try to rebuild the vehicle so the leftover mass matches the cargo mass.

Out of all of the listed vehicles, the Speeder, being a Tech Rating E fusion engine vehicle, doesn't use fuel, and therefore its mass cannot be estimated... but wait!  I can still check how much of the vehicle mass a TR E fusion engine would occupy in order for it to have the listed safe speed of 20 MP.  That's (4+20²) x 0.75 x the Base Engine Weight, which can range from 0.0025 for a small wheeled SV to 0.025 for a large tracked SV.  That works out to 75,75% of the mass of a small wheeled vehicle; it goes up to 181,8% of the mass if a small tracked SV, and 227,25% of the mass of a medium wheeled SV.  Therefore, we can say with confidence that the Speeder is a wheeled vehicle under 5 tons in mass.  Furthermore, it mounts 6 points of BAR 5 armor, which means it must mass 1 ton or above.  As a single-seater with mere 15 kg of cargo, it could easily be ultralight and a bicycle or monocycle.

The Air Car Hovercraft, the Hurricane Hover Car, the Turbofan Car, the Jeep, the Jitney Minibus, the Macadam Ground Car, and the Jet Sled Tracked Snowmobile could be built with minor surprises; the three first are TR D hovercraft, and required either the Monocycle or the Ultralight chassis mods; since neither uses BAR above 5 and all of them have the word "car" in the name, I just assumed they were Ultralight rather than Monocycles. The Jet Sled was the only tracked vehicle, and the only one that required pillion seats.

Code: [Select]
AIR CAR HOVERCRAFT:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 2950 kg
Rating: D/C-E-D/B

Chassis: Hover (Ultralight), TL D [295kg, 1382.8125 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 11/17, TL D [1383 kg, 8643.75 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 802 km Operational Range, TL D [111 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 12 Standard [900 kg, 1200 C-Bills]
Armor: 2 Front, 1 Sides, 2 Aft, BAR 3, TL D [114 kg, 750 C-Bills]
Cargo: 147 kg [147 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 2950 kg, 12684 C-Bills (15500 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 118.8 km/h
Flank Speed: 183.6 km/h

Notes: Uses Ultralight chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 11 passenger seats/standard (825 kg), and 147 kg of cargo space.

Code: [Select]
HURRICANE HOVER CAR:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 1250 kg
Rating: D/C-E-D/B

Chassis: Hover (Ultralight), TL D [125kg, 585.9325 C-Bills]
Engine: Fuel Cell Engine, Speed 16/24, TL D [813 kg, 7113.75 C-Bills]
Fuel: Hydrogen, 393 km Operational Range, TL D [48 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 2 Standard [150 kg, 200 C-Bills]
Armor: 2 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 2, TL D [65 kg, 312.5 C-Bills]
Cargo: 49 kg [49 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 1250 kg, 8418 C-Bills (10000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 172.8 km/h
Flank Speed: 259.2 km/h

Notes: Uses Ultralight chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 1 passenger seat/standard (75 kg), and 49 kg of cargo space.

Code: [Select]
TURBOFAN CAR:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 1750 kg
Rating: D/C-E-D/B

Chassis: Hover (Ultralight), TL D [175kg, 820.3125 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 13/20, TL D [1136 kg, 7100 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 889 km Operational Range, TL D [101 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 3 Standard [225 kg, 300 C-Bills]
Armor: 1 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 2, TL D [52 kg, 250 C-Bills]
Cargo: 61 kg [61 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 1750 kg, 8767 C-Bills (10500 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 140.4 km/h
Flank Speed: 216 km/h

Notes: Uses Ultralight chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 2 passenger seats/standard (150 kg), and 61 kg of cargo space.

Code: [Select]
JEEP:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 1700 kg
Rating: C/B-C-D/B

Chassis: Wheeled (Off-Road), TL C [352kg, 1056 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 7/11, TL C [451 kg, 2255 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 509 km Operational Range, TL C [23 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 4 Standard [300 kg, 400 C-Bills]
Armor: 2 Front, 2 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 5, TL C [280 kg, 1400 C-Bills]
Cargo: 294 kg [294 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 1700 kg, 5155 C-Bills (6000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Flank Speed: 118.8 km/h

Notes: Uses Off-Road chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 3 passenger seats/standard (225 kg), and 294 kg of cargo space.

Code: [Select]
JITNEY (MINIBUS):
Medium Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 14 tons
Rating: C/A-A-A/B

Chassis: Wheeled, TL C [2.5 t, 6250 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 6/9, TL C [8.5 t, 42500 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 588 km Operational Range, TL C [0.5 t, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 24 Standard [1.8 t, 2400 C-Bills]
Armor: 4 Front, 3 Sides, 2 Aft, BAR 3, TL C [0.5 t, 1200 C-Bills]
Cargo: 200 kg [0.2 t, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 14 t, 56015 C-Bills (62000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 64.8 km/h
Flank Speed: 97.2 km/h

Notes: Has 2 crew seat/standard (0 kg), 24 passenger seats/standard (1800 kg), and 200 kg of cargo space.

Code: [Select]
MACADAM GROUND CAR:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 1700 kg
Rating: C/X-C-C/B

Chassis: Wheeled, TL C [235kg, 587.5 C-Bills]
Engine: Fuel Cell Engine, Speed 12/18, TL C [755 kg, 5285 C-Bills]
Fuel: Hydrogen, 732 km Operational Range, TL C [83 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 6 Standard [450 kg, 600 C-Bills]
Armor: 2 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 2, TL C [80 kg, 250 C-Bills]
Cargo: 97 kg [97 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 1700 kg, 6780 C-Bills (8000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 129.6 km/h
Flank Speed: 194.4 km/h

Notes: Has 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 5 passenger seats/standard (375 kg), and 97 kg of cargo space.

Code: [Select]
JET SLED TRACKED SNOWMOBILE:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 750 kg
Rating: D/D-E-D/B

Chassis: Tracked (Snowmobile), TL D [171kg, 694.6875 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 8/12, TL D [459 kg, 2868.75 C-Bills]
Fuel: Alcohol, 244 km Operational Range, TL D [14 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 1 Pillion [25 kg, 10 C-Bills]
Armor: 1 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 2, TL D [52 kg, 250 C-Bills]
Cargo: 29 kg [29 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 750 kg, 3853 C-Bills (5000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flank Speed: 129.6 km/h

Notes: Uses Snowmobile chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/pillion (25 kg), and 29 kg of cargo space.
« Last Edit: 20 February 2014, 06:33:49 by NullVoid »

NullVoid

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Re: ATOW Generic Vehicles
« Reply #1 on: 16 February 2014, 20:43:32 »
The Feicui Aircar Hovercraft, the Avanti Luxury Sedan, the Heavy Transport and the Typhoon Ground Car, however, haven't managed to add up.  They either have to be smallet than their range and fuell mass would permit, have more cargo mass than listed, or have some other piece of equipment or chassis mod I haven't been able to discern:

The Feicui Aircar Hovercraft must mass somewhere between 2703 and 2756 kg; at 2703 kg, 107 kg are still unaccounted for.  I say 2750 kg is a nice, round number, which leaves it 125 kg underweight. This goes up to 400 kg (!) if we make it Ultralight like its brethren. The difference between calculated and list price could be explained by general Avanti greed and to foster exclusiveness, but added to the missing mass... one could fit a substantial infantry support weapon and not go overbudget.
Code: [Select]
FEICUI AIRCAR HOVERCRAFT:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 2750 kg
Rating: D/X-E-E/B

Chassis: Hover (Ultralight), TL D [275kg, 1289.0625 C-Bills]
Engine: Fuel Cell Engine, Speed 13/20, TL D [1190 kg, 10412.5 C-Bills]
Fuel: Hydrogen, 302 km Operational Range, TL D [54 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 7 Standard [525 kg, 700 C-Bills]
Armor: 3 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 3, TL D [114 kg, 750 C-Bills]
Cargo: 192 kg [192 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Unspecified: 400 kg [400 kg, ? C-Bills]

Total: 2750 kg, 13875 C-Bills (140000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Flank Speed: 118.8 km/h

Notes: Uses Ultralight chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 6 passenger seats/standard (450 kg), and 192 kg of cargo space.

The Avanti Luxury Sedan must mass between 2383 and 2497 kg, but to mount the amount of armor listed it must mass at least 2500 kg. Even at the minimum weight, 113 kg are unaccounted for.  I pick a mass of 2400 kg and add the missing 146 kg to unspecified luxury items. The difference in the costs is huge.
Code: [Select]
AVANTI LUXURY SEDAN:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 2400 kg
Rating: C/X-E-D/B

Chassis: Wheeled, TL C [332kg, 830 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 8/12, TL C [816 kg, 4080 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemicals, 259 km Operational Range, TL C [54 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 8 Standard [600 kg, 800 C-Bills]
Armor: 3 Front, 2 Sides, 2 Aft, BAR 3, TL C [114 kg, 750 C-Bills]
Cargo: 292 kg [292 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Unspecified: 146 kg [146 kg, ? C-Bills]

Total: 2400 kg, 6589 C-Bills (70000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flank Speed: 129.6 km/h

Notes: Has 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 6 passenger seats/standard (450 kg), and 292 kg of cargo space.

The Heavy Transport is basically a 20 ton truck with a bit more than 10% of its mass devoted to cargo. Even though as a medium SV it should have a crew of two, it's listed as having a crew of one; both seats should have been free but ended up having been paid for.  Even then, the build is 0.5 tons light.  The costs, at least, are close to each other.
Code: [Select]
TRANSPORT, HEAVY:
Medium Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 20 tons
Rating: C/B-B-B/C

Chassis: Wheeled, TL C [3 t, 7500 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 6/9, TL C [12 t, 60000 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 833 km Operational Range, TL C [1 t, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 2 Standard [0.15 t, 200 C-Bills]
Armor: 6 Front, 5 Sides, 5 Aft, BAR 5, TL C [1 t, 4200 C-Bills]
Cargo: 2350 kg [2.35 t, 0 C-Bills]
Unspecified: 500 kg [0.5 t, ? C-Bills]

Total: 20 t, 79090 C-Bills (90000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 64.8 km/h
Flank Speed: 97.2 km/h

Notes: Has 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 1 passenger seat/standard (75 kg), and 2350 kg of cargo space.

A lightweight, the Typhoon must mass between 901 and 1000 kg.  Even at the smallest size, and making it convertible AND a tractor, it's still light by 7 kg.  Using anything less than a full ton would necessitate dropping a point of armor, though. The difference in cost is staggering.
Code: [Select]
TYPHOON GROUND CAR:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 1000 kg
Rating: C/D-D-D/B

Chassis: Wheeled, TL C [138kg, 345 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 8/12, TL C [340 kg, 1700 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 294 km Operational Range, TL C [10 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 4 Standard [300 kg, 400 C-Bills]
Armor: 3 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 2, TL C [96 kg, 300 C-Bills]
Cargo: 16 kg [16 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Unspecified: 100 kg [100 kg, ? C-Bills]


Total: 1000 kg, 2759 C-Bills (35000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flank Speed: 129.6 km/h

Notes: Has 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 3 passenger seats/standard (325 kg), and 16 kg of cargo space.

Finally, a possible version of the Speeder; here, rather than a bike, it's more like a racing car:
Code: [Select]
SPEEDER:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 1350 kg
Rating: E/C-E-D/B

Chassis: Wheeled (Ultralight), TL E [69kg, 388.125 C-Bills]
Engine: Fusion Engine, Speed 13/20, TL E [1023 kg, 15345 C-Bills]
Fuel: Not Applicable [0 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 1 Standard [75 kg, 100 C-Bills]
Armor: 3 Front, 1 Sides, 1 Aft, BAR 5, TL E [168 kg, 1800 C-Bills]
Cargo: 15 kg [15 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 1350 kg, 17753 C-Bills (23000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 216 km/h
Flank Speed: 324 km/h

Notes: Uses Ultralight chassis and controls modification, 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), and 15 kg of cargo space.

Edit: Separated the missing mass into "unspecified" component.  The Avanti is still underweight for its armor.
« Last Edit: 25 February 2014, 10:11:47 by NullVoid »

idea weenie

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Re: ATOW Generic Vehicles
« Reply #2 on: 19 February 2014, 14:46:04 »
Bookmarking.  Well done by the way.

bytedruid

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  • A great starter adventure.
Re: ATOW Generic Vehicles
« Reply #3 on: 20 February 2014, 01:37:17 »
Quote
JITNEY (MINIBUS):
...
Total:   14 t, 56015 C-Bills (62000 C-Bills list price)
...

Dude, I didn't realize the Jitney was so pricey!  Seeing as how a C-bill buys something like $10 of goods in today's economy we're talking a half-million dollars for what's basically a commercial conversion van.   Do you see any good way to make this fancier given it's huge list price in AToW?

Hat tips to Slightlylyons who fixed aerotech in one post and to Daryk for organized cool stuff.

NullVoid

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Re: ATOW Generic Vehicles
« Reply #4 on: 20 February 2014, 07:33:30 »
(I had somehow forgotten to transcribe the chassis and engine unit costs when I did the copypasta, but that's now fixed; also, just so we're talking about the same thing, this is a Jitney)

Alas, that's a wart of the SV construction system. Notice the mass of the Engine; this is about as large as a current-day minibus, and that for a TOP speed of 97 km/h (60 mph for those of you who don't use metric).  A similar 14-ton wheeled CV with a 6/9 speed profile would have a four-ton 65 engine rating and even with standard armor cost less than the Jitney.  The best solution is, of course, downgrading the Jitney from 14 to 4 tons, since it becomes a small SV and thus much cheaper, while retaining passenger numbers (mandatory crew decreases by one, but I kept the number of seats), armor, speed profile, range (rounded up from 588 to 600 km), and cargo increases from 200 kg to 362 kg so we can fit all of the armor; also notice that while the range increased by 12 km, the fuel required decreased from 500 kg to 48 kg, making it ten times cheaper to operate:

Code: [Select]
JITNEY LITE:
Small Support Vehicle
Total Mass: 4000 kg
Rating: C/A-A-A/B

Chassis: Wheeled, TL C [552 kg, 1380 C-Bills]
Engine: Internal Combustion Engine, Speed 6/9, TL C [800 kg, 4000 C-Bills]
Fuel: Petrochemical, 600 km Operational Range, TL C [48 kg, 0 C-Bills]
Seats: 26 Standard [1950 kg, 2600 C-Bills]
Armor: 4 Front, 3 Sides, 2 Aft, BAR 3, TL C [288 kg, 1200 C-Bills]
Cargo: 362 kg [362 kg, 0 C-Bills]

Total: 4000 kg, 9364 C-Bills (10500~12000 C-Bills list price)
Cruise Speed: 64.8 km/h
Flank Speed: 97.2 km/h

Notes: Has 1 crew seat/standard (75 kg), 25 passenger seats/standard (1875 kg), and 362 kg of cargo space.

If it's an inner city shuttle, you can downgrade the armor to BAR 2 and the cargo to 8 tons, and increase the number of seats to 32 at a no increase in cost ( the armor decrease actually pays off the extra cost of the seats)

Of course, this is an optimized vehicle to do that job; the canon Jitney is (probably) the vehicle on the first post.
« Last Edit: 20 February 2014, 07:54:46 by NullVoid »