Author Topic: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships  (Read 9378 times)

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #30 on: 11 February 2016, 01:19:40 »
The only FWL RAT I have access to now is the one from Empires Aflame  :)

Which of the following variants of the Eagle (fighter, not frigate) would the FWL have access to in 3067?

EGL-R6
EGL-R6b
EGL-R9
EGL-R10
EGL-R11

Also, would it make sense for them to have the Deathstalker?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Vition2

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #31 on: 11 February 2016, 01:51:55 »
The R6 shows up in the RATs in Updates (circa 3067), and the R6b shows up in FM:3085, so both of those are possible (the R6b probably as refits of R6).  Of the others, the R11 isn't introduced until midway through the Jihad, but both the R9 and R10 are also possible, but would likely be pretty old units.

As for the Deathstalkers, there are technically 20 F-77 that could be pressed into service, but there were serious problems with them and relying on them would be a bad idea, the other ones didn't start production until 3073, so you might have access to a single test flight in 3067, but you would be seriously pushing the boundaries if you did.

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #32 on: 11 February 2016, 03:08:53 »
Shivas are doomed to  fire support by their armour. By the same token Rievers are doomed to point work by their heavy armour compared to Shivas.

Along those lines, Gothas. You need them in large numbers to shield your under armoured Lancers and Shivas.

Which Gotha variants does the FWL have access to in 3067, and were they able to manufacture the spaceframe in quantity?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Vition2

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #33 on: 11 February 2016, 12:17:55 »
The Gotha mas manufactured at Stewart and sold to the FWL from 3019-3064 so there could be quite a few of them out there (though they aren't on FM:Updates RATs, and only the 500 and 600 are on FM 3085 - don't take the RATs as canon though).  Most likely you'll find 400s and 500s in decent quantity, and possibly a retooling of the line to 500bs when the technology for them becomes prolific enough.  600s don't start production until 3067 and are exclusively WoB machines for a couple of years.

Jellico

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #34 on: 11 February 2016, 16:29:42 »
500bs require the Dallas Core to be introduced. Arguably they have been superseded by 600s.
400s are unlikely to be around given the modularity of the Gotha.

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #35 on: 13 February 2016, 03:31:25 »
The Gotha mas manufactured at Stewart and sold to the FWL from 3019-3064 so there could be quite a few of them out there (though they aren't on FM:Updates RATs, and only the 500 and 600 are on FM 3085 - don't take the RATs as canon though).  Most likely you'll find 400s and 500s in decent quantity, and possibly a retooling of the line to 500bs when the technology for them becomes prolific enough.  600s don't start production until 3067 and are exclusively WoB machines for a couple of years.

Wait a sec, folks...isn't the Gotha the one that has only 1 ton of ammo for 2 LRM-15s...?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Jellico

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #36 on: 13 February 2016, 04:03:05 »
And two wings.

The nature of wing mounts mean that they don't fire together very often. Remembering that you only get two or so firing turns at long range before the merge (less if the target is evading ) and those LRMs are used less than you might think.

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #37 on: 15 February 2016, 03:03:29 »
OK folks, how does this look?  Had to increase the dogfighters relative to fast-doggers (the FWL aero corps really doesn't seem to have any alternatives to the fragile Lancer for that role), but what's here is a good(???) mix of Marik's own signature production, smatterings of signature fighters of the FWL's traditional neighbours/enemies, some goodwill imports picked up during the Kapteyn years, and generics which every faction has.

HEAVY ATTACK
6 x F-700b Riever
6 x F-700a Riever
6 x SHV-O-A Shiva
6 x SHV-O-Prime Shiva
24 x GTHA-500 Gotha
4 x LCF-R15 Lucifer
 
FIRE SUPPORT
12 x SHV-O-B Shiva
12 x SHV-O-C Shiva
12 x THB-D36 Thunderbird
6 x CHP-W5 Chippewa
6 x SL-17 Shilone

DOGFIGHTER
6 x F-700 Riever
24 x F-92 Stingray
24 x F-94 Stingray
6 x EGL-R6b Eagle
6 x CSR-V12M Corsair
6 x LTN-G15 Lightning
4 x TR-13 Transgressor

FAST DOGFIGHTER
12 x LX-2 Lancer
12 x LX-2A Lancer

INTERCEPTOR
6 x F-11 Cheetah
6 x F-13 Cheetah
6 x SB-27 Sabre
6 x CNT-1D Centurion

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #38 on: 15 February 2016, 03:05:24 »
Now to the SLDF side.

First question:  do Narc beacons work in space?  I'm asking just because I want to know if there's any point in including the Ahab, just because it's a signature SLDF bird built around the Narc system.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

truetanker

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #39 on: 15 February 2016, 21:17:55 »
No, only on the ground.

And your forgetting the 32 SL Small Craft bays : possible Dragonstar.

Also what if you guys ran the SLDF ASF with some VoidSeeker drones? By switching for a Model 96C or three... Allows up to 20 drones...

TT
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gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #40 on: 15 February 2016, 22:49:11 »

And your forgetting the 32 SL Small Craft bays : possible Dragonstar.

Also what if you guys ran the SLDF ASF with some VoidSeeker drones? By switching for a Model 96C or three... Allows up to 20 drones...


The Dragonstar is another unit I'm not familiar with.  It's not a boarding craft by any chance, is it?  ;) 

The FWLN ships can also take some small craft, but for boarding actions they have the NL-42 available.  That would make things more interesting by giving the fighters something else to shoot at, i.e. stop the boarding craft before they actually make it close enough to a Warship to attempt boarding actions.  And their marines can be equipped with Achileus and Longinus suits.  What does the SLDF have in reply?

cheers,

Gabe 
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Jellico

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #41 on: 16 February 2016, 02:05:39 »
That would be the NL 42 produced for Wolf's Dragoons  on Outreach? Just how blacklisted would the FWL be in 3067?

NL 42 would probably be a good proxie for the SLDF as they originated the NL series.
Otherwise look to the Ares Mk1.

truetanker

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #42 on: 16 February 2016, 16:31:20 »
2 Jump Infantry bays... so 2 Squads of Nighthawk (P)ALs.

Each.

Or you could use S.A.S.F. Infantry, Special Asteroid Support Force. Pre-SL era XCT Marine Exosuits, armed with a Mk. XX Laser Rifle and a Vibroblade underneath.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

sillybrit

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #43 on: 16 February 2016, 18:33:40 »
Since the abstract boarding rules (TO p201) would probably be used to handle boarding during an ongoing aerospace scenario, the actual equipment used by non-battlesuit marines doesn't matter, other than body armor with a divisor of 2.

For short term boarding flights, you can carry 5 non-battlesuit marines per ton of cargo space (TO p199), no bays or quarters needed, so any small craft could be used for boarding actions. If using battle armor, then it'd be 1 per ton no matter what size (TO p199) and given that they're only worth 2 marine points (Mk XXII, or Achileus/Longinus config with flamer or MG) or 1 marine point (other Mks or Achileus/Longinus configs) each, then per ton non-battlesuit marines are a better choice with both divisor 2 body armor (2 points per marine) and other body armor (1 point per marine).

Some Nighthawks could be added for flavor, but I'd suggest just assuming that all the SLDF marines come with a Marine Environment Suit (thus 2 marine points each). Weaponry is unimportant, but would probably include a lot of Mauser 960s given that it was the standard SLDF infantry weapon. The Mauser 960 would also likely be wielded by Nighthawks.

The Achileus is probably more likely for boarding actions by the FWLN if they're going to use battle armor, as its smaller size would make it easier to get through cramped passageways, although the rules don't place any such limits. As noted above, whether Achileus or Longinus is used is irrelevant, with the weapon config being key. The FWLN are also likely to use Marine Environment Suits for their non-battlesuit marines, but they're typically only armed with spoons.

Assuming the OP ships, the FWLN have 8 small craft, while the SLDF have 34. So potentially the SLDF could deliver a lot of marines, with each marine as effective as the battle armor available to the FWLN at the time.

I might have lied about the spoons, although it doesn't matter as far as the boarding rules are concerned.

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #44 on: 21 February 2016, 01:34:37 »
OK, here's what I came up with for the SLDF fighters to balance the Thera's complement.  Since these would have to be deployed on Dropships, I felt it more sensible to allocate by role in wings.  I settled on having 6 Titans and 3 Lees.  Question:  does the Lee require 1 docking collar, or 2?

TITAN 1
6 x TRN-3T Trident      
6 x THK-63 Tomahawk          
6 x HCT-213B Hellcat II      


TITAN 2
6 x RGU-133E Rogue      
6 x IRN-SD1 Ironsides      
6 x GTHA-500 Gotha      


TITAN 3
6 x TRN-3Tb Trident      
6 x ZRO-116b Zero      
6 x HCT-214 Hellcat II      


TITAN 4
6 x HMR-HDb Hammerhead      
6 x GTHA-500b Gotha      
6 x CHP-W5b Chippewa      


TITAN 5
6 x SPR-H5 Sparrowhawk      
6 x SPD-502 Spad      
6 x CSR-V12 Corsair      


TITAN 6
6 x HMR-HD Hammerhead      
6 x RPR-100 Rapier            
6 x STU-K5 Stuka      


LEE 1
6 x SB-28 Sabre         
6 x THK-63b Tomahawk      
6 x RGU-133b Rogue      
6 x HCT-214 Hellcat II      
6 x EGL-R6b Eagle      
6 x RPR-200 Rapier      
4 x STU-K5b Stuka      

LEE 2
6 x SYD-Z1 Seydlitz      
6 x SPD-502 Spad
6 x HCT-213B Hellcat II
6 x ZRO-114 Zero
6 x RGU-133 Rogue
6 x GTHA-500 Gotha
2 x STU-K5b Stuka      
2 x THB-D36b Thunderbird    

LEE 3
6 x TRN-3T Trident      
6 x THK-63b Tomahawk      
6 x F-90 Stingray      
6 x IRN-SD1b Ironsides
6 x RPR-100 Rapier
6 x AHB-443 Ahab
4 x THB-D36b Thunderbird   

Yes, I know the Ahab's Narc is wasted in space, but it really does fulfill the fire-support role better than any other frame in there.

How does this stack up against what I suggested for the Thera's fighter force?

cheers,

Gabe




So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

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Re: Potemkin vs. Thera: fill out the fighters and Dropships
« Reply #45 on: 21 February 2016, 05:42:38 »
Something else that crossed my mind:

I tried to select units that would've been common and representative of the SLDF, but it struck me that a number of those designs (Spad, Zero, Rapier to name a few) have nose weapons only, and have since they were first introduced.  The FWL birds tend to have weapons distributed more evenly over the airframe.  Would this not eventually end up putting the SLDF fighter force at something of a tactical disadvantage compared to the FWL?

cheers,

Gabe

So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.