Author Topic: Monbvol's House rule emporium  (Read 94357 times)

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #300 on: 16 April 2017, 04:31:22 »
I think the real problem with the Vehicle trait is the huge disparity between vehicle types.  Equating a Medium BA with a Medium 'Mech (at +4 TP in the table) is more than ridiculous.

Custom Vehicle's problem is the lack detail once you get to 4 TP ("Design own vehicle").  AToW came out after StratOps, so they missed an opportunity to leverage the different classes of refit.  Looked at that way, there's really two different aspects that can be tweaked: one is how you determine the base vehicle, and the other is how extremely you can refit it.  I'd be inclined to include the first aspect in Vehicle proper, and reserve the second for the Custom Vehicle trait.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #301 on: 16 April 2017, 17:12:44 »
I can accept the disparity in Battlearmor's case simply because it is so much more utilitarian in a RPG campaign than the other Vehicle types and the other types get certain advantages of what is "Heavy" for them.  For instance the ability to get a 100 ton ASF for just 600 XP does help in that regard.

Tanks get a similar benefit but yeah I think they do suffer the most, especially since they start adding the consideration of crew after 15 tons but that is part of why I think Vehicle should be a subcategory of my Status trait to help handle that aspect and a few others.

Where Mechs suffer is in the RATs.  Compare say FM:Updates RATS to aToW's.

Still though I've had thoughts about using Custom Vehicle as you suggest and I may actually implement that going forward.  Six classes of refits and six levels of trait does have a nice synergy to it that allows it to be unified more neatly, especially now that the tech bases are getting more intermingled.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #302 on: 21 April 2017, 20:05:24 »
I've managed to give this some thought.

I still have the main underlying issue of no one unified system of random unit determination for Mechs.

Still I've thought about a few options.

Option 1: Modify my current methodology by actually making Custom Vehicle a 10 point sub category of Status and Connections.  A point gives you the ability to determine one roll(mass or choose from RAT), change RAT, or increase refit class by one with the tenth point being allowing the player to completely ground up design their own vehicle.  Also Custom Vehicle cannot be taken without also putting 2 points in Vehicle at minimum.  Don't increase the sub-category points any and let the disparity in Vehicle types be for the sake of keeping things from being bogged down in too much detail with the bonus of with the way I'm working things you're always getting some side benefits at least with the added consideration of Vehicle does a lot to make up for not having as much access to gear, as much money, as skilled underlings, or as much access to information.

Option 2: Forget trying to make a unifying random vehicle system for Battletech and just build a system for my AU.  I had actually somewhat made a methodology for this at one point and since it's my AU and I haven't completely built RATs for it yet, I really need to beef up some unit selections for certain eras.  Of course I'm also seriously considering re-doing almost the entirety of my AU design archive again anyway so there is that.

Option 3: See what I can do with the various RATs in MegaMek/MekHQ and adapt my methodology to work with those.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #303 on: 22 April 2017, 05:58:20 »
Have you considered Xotl's RATs?  They're really amazing for the eras he's done so far...

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #304 on: 22 April 2017, 11:18:08 »
Yes but you've pointed out their primary problem, they only cover a few eras.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #305 on: 17 June 2017, 00:01:21 »
After much deliberation I have decided on something of a compromise.

Vehicle and Custom Vehicle will be 5 point sub-categories of my Status and Connections traits.

Vehicle mass will be determined as per my revised FM:Mercs methodology.  Roll 2d6 and add the Vehicle trait to the roll and get the mass from the appropriate cell on the table.  So two points ensures you are not dispossessed.  For RATs that use different ratings or modifiers it'll have to be mostly up to the GM to decide how they want to handle that themselves but for me and at my table I'm going to look to the character's Reputation traits and what kind of Status trait they have, especially if they have more than one Status.

For Custom Vehicle, well this gets a bit more complicated.  You must invest at least two points in Vehicle before you can invest in Custom Vehicle.  As per normal you can spend one to change which RAT you roll on for your random mech or select from your faction's RAT.  Also as per normal to not roll on this new table requires a second point spent on Custom Vehicle.  You may spend a point to increase refit by one category(Field, Maintenance, Factory).  One point will let you select the mass of the mech without having to roll.  Or you can just spend all 5 to custom design a new unit but it will automatically have the Prototype design quirk.

Now the only thing I feel I have to hash out is the points to customize the sub-categories of Status and Connections because Vehicle oriented characters are still going to be in a bit of a bind there.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #306 on: 17 June 2017, 00:23:19 »
So if I understand your system, I can:

Spend two points on Vehicle so I can spend points on Custom Vehicle
Spend a point in Custom Vehicle to choose my tonnage
Spend a point in Custom Vehicle to choose my RAT
Spend a point in Custom Vehicle to choose my result on that RAT

So, five points total to land any canon 'mech or variant listed on a RAT somewhere?

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #307 on: 17 June 2017, 00:42:26 »
Yup.

Since they are a sub-category of my Status and Connections traits you can currently do that for as little as 400 XP in any Status with a left over point you could put into having a crew/support staff(People), gear(Wealth or Equipped), or having reliable military intelligence(Info) or 200 XP in Connections with no left over points.

So not a bad deal at all.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #308 on: 17 June 2017, 00:48:36 »
Interesting!  My only reservation is that would seem to put a Super Stinger on par with a Marauder II, points-wise.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #309 on: 17 June 2017, 01:05:47 »
Yeah that is a rather large part of why I'v had so much trouble with this issue.

The only thing I can think of is to require more points of Vehicle in such a situation.  2 gets a Light, 3 a Medium, 4 a Heavy, 5 an Assault.

That might not be too unreasonable.  600 XP in Status to get an Assault that way or 400 XP in Connections and both would have left over points to invest in other stuff.

I think I might do that.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #310 on: 17 June 2017, 01:43:40 »
Updated the master document(link in the first post of this thread).

-Updated the methodology of Vehcile and Custom Vehicle.
-Fixed the section that had Negotiation and Interrogation as skill specializations of Language to indicate they are still stand alone skills but their ranks/attribute bonuses are capped by the character's Language skill that they are using these skills in.
-Added Training to the list of skills to be capped by Language.
-Cleaned up some redundant language and made a few things clearer in the AU specific section.

Now in consideration for future revisions:
-Adding a proviso to Acting that using that skill with a vocal component is also likewise limited by the Language skill the character wishes to use with aforementioned vocal component.
-Perhaps as an AU specific revision altering Precision Ammunition to offset all Movement modifier types to the maximum of 2 to make it more useful a choice against big slow targets where you almost never get the benefit otherwise.

idea weenie

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #311 on: 21 June 2017, 19:49:45 »
Is your Dropship needing more bang?  Are Fire Control systems taking up too much room?  Well try the new Short Range Naval missiles, fired from cluster launchers:

Short-range Naval Missiles (twin-launcher):
Heat: 20
Damage: 2/*
Range: 1-3/4-6/7-9
Tons: 10
Criticals: 10
Shots/ton: 6

(* 2 Capital pts of damage per missile, number of missiles hitting is determined by rolling on cluster table.  Each still counts as a single missile for AMS purposes, similar to Thunderbolt missiles.)

(Why yes, all I did was take the SRM-2, change it to have 120 1-pt missiles per ton, increase everything but range by 10*, and put it here)
« Last Edit: 07 January 2018, 00:13:41 by idea weenie »

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #312 on: 18 July 2017, 01:02:43 »
New design quirk under consideration:

Additional Grousers/Tire Pressure Adjustments
Tracked and Wheeled Vehicles only
1 point positive Design Quirk

Unit with this option receives a -1 TN modifier to bogging down.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #313 on: 18 August 2017, 14:58:55 »
Additional new quirk under consideration:

Magnetic Grip Assists
Available to all non-omni non-flying units
1 point positive quirk

Allows Battle Armor to mount a unit as if equipped with MagClamps.  Reduces speed as per external cargo rules using abstract weight rules(1 ton per suit) unless detailed Battle Armor weight rules are in play.  In such a case round up to the nearest half ton if necessary to determine speed reduction.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #314 on: 18 August 2017, 15:24:59 »
I also re-attacked my cargo carrying question up in the rules section in light of the conversation in General Discussion.  We'll see how that goes.  You may not need the quirk...

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #315 on: 18 August 2017, 17:23:32 »
We will see.

Overall Battle Armor and how they are currently handled and the resulting discussions are giving me a lot to think about.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #316 on: 10 November 2017, 01:14:59 »
So I've been having a fairly ambitious thought or two about overhauling the Property trait.

Each point of Property lets the player choose a primary income type.  Each type adds a modifier to the Administration roll(which I am personally inclined to make them do monthly instead of yearly).  Each also adds a modifier to a random event table(might make one for each primary type of income).  I also want to have each provide some sort of perk and I even want some to work together to be even more powerful.  I am also thinking of adding ways to give more effective Property points but they come with certain downsides but do come with something interesting.

So far I've got:

Investments: Still figuring out exactly how I want to work this but I've always been okay with the idea of Property representing investment portfolios and such.

Residential: With plenty of room for people to spread out and housing being so cheap in an interstellar society you're never going to get rich being a land lord.  Thinking as a perk each time you select this you can offer to put up one of your fellow PCs for free without hurting your bottom line and to represent police and garrison 1 foot platoon of Rifle Infantry per point invested.

Commercial: Eateries, shopping centers, transport dealerships, warehouses/shipping, and transportation services.  While I am not super inclined to make the players choose a specific type I might reward them with greater value of goods/services that they can use for themselves without penalty.  Perhaps even allowing PCs to use storage space to house their Vehicles but at limited types.  I'm thinking as far as StratOps maintenance/repair/customization modifiers limit to Transport Bay for Support Units and MFB for all others.

Agricultural: I'm thinking this should be mostly used as a way to bolster Residential in particular but to give it stand alone value I am thinking it should provide plenty of storage space and thus probably use the same perk as Commercial for housing player Vehicles.

Mining: I am tempted to have Mining not play nice with Agricultural on the same property, especially with how useful it would be for the more industrial stuff I am contemplating for the rest of the major income sources.

Light Industrial(Civilian): I am debating about exactly how focused I want this to be and exactly what kind of mechanics I want to put in place for having the trifecta of Residential, Mining, and Industrial.  Might allow for Maintenance for Support Vehicles for StratOps modifiers/conditions.

Light Industrial(Military): I know I want this to be fairly specific.  I am also thinking of limiting to small arms, support weapons, and maybe some of the more common options like armor and heat sinks.  Again I want to have modifiers for having Residential, Mining, and Industrial working together here.

Heavy Industrial(Civilian): Again should be somewhat specific in what it produces but I am pretty inclined it should as a perk allow Class F refits of Industrial/Workmechs or Support Vehicles but need a certain amount invested before that is possible.  Still working on mechanics for output that the owner can nab for themselves without penalty.

Heavy Industrial(Military): I think you get the picture here as well.

Some other modifiers I am thinking of adding in:

Mobile: The player's property can be relocated.  Reduces physical risk but also reduces profits.  GMs highly encouraged to not let players combine with Investments, especially if all a player's Property is all Investments.

Border Proximity: Increases the physical danger to the player's Property but also increases the probability of military assistance from the player's faction.  Not exactly sure how to work the mechanics on this yet.

R&D Lab: Primarily intend this as a way to allow players to for sure have a Class F refit option but make the player's property more prone to physical danger.

Military Facilities: Also still working this out but I am thinking cheaper ways to get repair/refit facilities, bunkers, and additional garrison forces.

A lot to think about and finish working out.  I do want to try and get some simplification going because this is already getting a bit out of hand and has a huge probability of getting even more complicated and detailed.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #317 on: 10 November 2017, 05:42:13 »
Interesting idea!  I'd think Commercial would have the same benefit as Residential, though... Business owners like to have police around too.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #318 on: 10 November 2017, 12:20:44 »
Yeah I am thinking about garrisons for all of them currently and how to upgrade them.  I am thinking all except Investment get the default Rifle Foot platoon per Property point and use Military Facilities or Light Industrial(Military) to upgrade them.  Maybe a sliding scale as well because 10 platoons of Rifle Foot seems a bit low to protect a Property 10.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #319 on: 10 November 2017, 12:59:35 »
Sounds reasonable.  Maybe a squad at one point, a platoon at two, company at three...  A battalion at four seems a bit too much, though...

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #320 on: 10 November 2017, 13:32:25 »
It is mostly establishing what would be reasonable at this point for the maximum garrison.  I am actually inclined to have the maximum be a mixed Battalion for Property 10.  Which would work out pretty close to one platoon/lance per Property point.

To deal with some of the odd ball organizational schemes out there(Taurians and their Vehicle Battalions and 4 mech Companies to a Battalion, Comstar/Word of Blake, and I'm probably missing another where Property is possible) to keep it simple I'll just go for the more generic/standard organization and chalk up any differences as this is what the player can put together for the defense of their Property and conforming to their faction's organizational scheme be damned.

Which brings me back to having to deal with certain environmental modifiers next.  I have been wanting to eliminate as many modifiers from the Property Administration table as possible by building them into the primary income types.  Like if you have large Residential tracts and Agricultural tracts on your Property then you have a reasonable source of water but I may have to keep them around and figure out ways to make why you'd want water supply troubles to represent the dark days of the Succession Wars or more frontier like conditions.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #321 on: 10 November 2017, 13:52:45 »
Makes sense... I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #322 on: 10 November 2017, 16:18:42 »
I could have sworn there were modifiers to the Property Administration roll for things like abnormal gravity or atmosphere composition/pressure.

There are not.

So now I am considering how many of these elements really should impact a player's Property.

I am inclined to think gravity should if it is sufficiently high or low as either way it creates greater health care strains and takes specialized equipment to move bulk goods and in the event of a scenario where the player or even group have to defend the property it can have a considerable impact.  I'll have to look at at Tactical Operations to nail down these mechanics.

Likewise if the climate is overly hot or cold it can demand specialty gear with health concerns and impact combat.

Atmosphere composition and pressure is the trickiest for me.  There are a few combinations of these factors that can make human habitation possible but not easy.  Main issue is frankly how many designs for conventional vehicles do not have environmental sealing and thus could create issues for garrison forces and combat.  There would also be limits on what is reasonable.

The last factor I am thinking about is where the Property is on the interstellar map.  Being near a border would increase odds of being attacked but would also increase the combat experience of garrison forces from fighting off the raids and invasions.

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #323 on: 11 November 2017, 00:21:54 »
Making progress.

Still need to work out the random event table.

Except for Investment all Primary Incomes come with a Green Foot Rifle Platoon for garrison.

When rolling for Property Administration add an additional modifier for the character's current Edge as determined by the Link Attributes modifier table.  Also add this modifier to the random event.  Unless noted otherwise the Primary Income's Property Administration roll and any MoS or MoF are also added to the event roll.

Investment
Property Administration roll modifier: -4
Specials: Player may elect to tie Investment with other Primary Income types for additional bonuses specific to that Primary Income type and does not add Property Administration modifier to event roll.

Residential
Property Administration roll modifier: -3
Specials: Does not add Property Administration modifier to event roll if there is a different Primary Income type in the same Property.  May house one character for free at Base Quarters quality per Residential Primary Income selected without penalty.  -1 to Property Administration roll and event roll per additional character housed beyond this limit or per increased housing quality for each Investment the player ties to the Residential Primary Income selected.

Commercial
Property Administration roll modifier: -2
Specials: Player may take 10 C-bills of goods or services per Commercial Property Primary Income selected to the limits of their Equipped sub-trait of the Status trait their Property is tied to.  Each Investment increases the C-bill limit by 10.

Agricultural
Property Administration roll modifier: -1
Specials: Does not apply Property Administration roll to event roll if there is also a Residential, Commercial, or Light Industrial Civilian on the same Property.  Provides one Transport Bay for a Support or Civilian unit and one MFB bay for a military unit.

Mining
Property Administration roll modifier: 0
Specials: If there is a Industrial Primary Income on the same Property increase C-bill limits by a factor of 10 and Availability limits of production by one letter code per Mining Primary Income.

Light Industrial Civilian
Property Administration roll modifier: +1
Specials: Select a reasonably specific civilian good(communicator, noteputer, or trivid sets) and the player may collect 100 C-bills worth of that good per month.  Availability, Legality, and Technology codes all start at A.  Increase one of the codes by one letter for each Connection trait point or Reputation Trait point the player has.

Light Industrial Military
Property Administration roll modifier: +2
Specials: Choose a reasonably specific military good(Autorifles, Jumppacks, Motorized Infantry)and the player may collect 100 C-bills worth of that good per month.  Availability, Legality, and Technology codes all start at A.  Increase one of the codes by one letter for each Connection trait point or Reputation Trait point the player has.  Investment increases C-bill value by 50.

Heavy Industrial Civilian
Property Administration roll modifier: +3
Specials: May produce Civilian Workmechs and Support Vehicles(Player's choice).  If an Investment is tied to this Primary Income type the player may perform a Class F refit.  and the player may collect 1000 C-bills worth of that good per month.  Availability, Legality, and Technology codes all start at A.  Increase one of the codes by one letter for each Connection trait point or Reputation Trait point the player has.  Investment increases C-bill value by 500.


Heavy Industrial Military
Property Administration roll modifier: +4
Specials: May produce a particular component or heavy weapon.  If an Investment is tied to this Primary Income type the player may perform a Class F refit.  and the player may collect 1500 C-bills worth of that good per month.  Availability, Legality, and Technology codes all start at A.  Increase one of the codes by one letter for each Connection trait point or Reputation Trait point the player has.  Investment increases C-bill value by 750.

Abnormal Gravity
Cost: -1 per .2g above/below normal.  Highly recommended to not exceed -5.
Modifier to Property Administration roll: -1 per .2g above/below normal.
Effects:  See Tactical Operations.  I'll have to recheck a few books to see if there is a SPA or other options that I can give the garrison to reflect the fact that they are trained and used to fighting in these conditions.

Atmosphere
Cost: -1, -2, -3
Modifier to Property Administration roll: Equal to grade of modifier selected.
Effects: -1 represents needing breathers, -2 represents full environment suits but atmosphere still present or underwater settlements, -3 is full on vacuum.  Automatically upgrades any Infantry as needed for such extreme environments as long as they remain Infantry.

External Heat Adjustment
Cost: +1 for every extra heat dissipated -1 for every extra heat generated.
Modifier to Property Administration roll: -1 per heat point, either dissipated or generated, due to needing specialized gear and adverse working conditions.
Effects:  Infantry are again upgraded as necessary to cope with the environment.

Government Contracts
Cost: 1
Effects: Increase the Legality of an Industrial Primary Income type by one letter code.

Military Facility(Light Vehicle)
Cost: +1
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Light Vehicle Lance

Military Facility(Medium Vehicle)
Cost: +2
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Medium Vehicle Lance

Military Facility(Light Mech)
Cost: +2
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Light Mech Lance

Military Facility(Light ASF)
Cost: +2
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Light ASF Lance

Military Facility(Heavy Vehicle)
Cost: +3
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Heavy Vehicle Lance

Military Facility(Medium Mech)
Cost: +3
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Medium Mech Lance

Military Facility(Medium ASF)
Cost: +3
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Medium ASF Lance

Military Facility(Heavy Mech)
Cost: +4
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Heavy Mech Lance

Military Facility(Heavy ASF)
Cost: +4
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with a Heavy ASF Lance

Military Facility(Assault Mech)
Cost: +5
Effects: May replace one Garrison Rifle Foot Platoon with an Assault Mech Lance

Mobile
Cost: +1 per Property point
Modifier to Property Administration roll: -1; automatic critical fail reducing Property by 1 when re-located to a minimum of 1 for the next year or a MoS of 10 is rolled.  Whichever happens first.
Effects: This is mostly to give the player a way to have their Property be a Space Station or other such large complex.

Tech Center
Cost: 1
Effect: Increase Technology of one Industrial Primary Income by one letter code.

Volatile Location, lesser
Cost: -1 per Property point
Modifier to Property Administration roll: -1
Effects: Upgrades one garrison platoon/lance from Green to Regular per 2 Property points.
« Last Edit: 11 November 2017, 16:15:44 by monbvol »

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #324 on: 11 November 2017, 07:14:39 »
Progress indeed!  Do you intend to enforce a tree of some kind to prevent characters from loading up with Heavy Industrial Military?  Also, I'd recommend increasing the effect of the Tech Center, as you can get the same benefit and more by spending that trait point in more Connections or Reputation.

Finally, it looks like a line was dropped from Residential (the last sentence ends in the middle).

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #325 on: 11 November 2017, 13:10:12 »
Oops.  Finished the Residential note.

The main thing that I think will keep Heavy Industrial Military from getting out of hand is even if you stack up all 10 selections that is only 15,000 C-Bills worth of stuff.  That won't be enough to actually get much hardware.  So even if the players want to do a lot of Class F refits they'll have to acquire most of the stuff through other means.  I also intend to rig the event roll to make this the most likely to be under the most physical threat.  Which means I may have to rework a couple Primary Income types and how their event roll modifiers work.

Though looking at it I may also have to increase the value of Investment on a few to make it worth combining.

As far as the Tech Center and Connections and Reputation I may re-work that so that Connections and Reputation can only work for one Industrial Primary Income.

I'll have to think on that a bit on how exactly to execute it because I do want to reward a Property owner for having a Good Reputation and having the right Connections but as you point out it does make some of the other selections a little less than worth taking as it stands.

I also forgot to do Resource Shortfall and Volatile Location Greater.  I'll circle back to those as I sort some of this out.

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #326 on: 11 November 2017, 15:34:18 »
I'm still not clear what that last sentence in Residential is supposed to mean:

"Each Investment the player ties to the Residential Primary Income selected." ???

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #327 on: 11 November 2017, 16:14:58 »
Oy.  One more try.

Daryk

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #328 on: 11 November 2017, 16:26:31 »
Ah, it was supposed to be part of the previous sentence... thanks!

monbvol

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Re: Monbvol's House rule emporium
« Reply #329 on: 12 November 2017, 00:44:35 »
Okay I am starting to realize I've not been doing myself a lot of favors in how to handle the Propert Administration and event rolls.  So I may have to re-think those modifiers as well.