Author Topic: Why not?  (Read 20821 times)

Fallen_Raven

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #60 on: 01 June 2011, 18:13:54 »
I'd be in favor of footnotes about planets with vicious monsters running around the outback, with absolutely not way for them to leave the planet, or near sentient creatures that "trade" fruit and nuts for candy bars when reasearchers wander through. I would even accept finding artifacts that might be from primitive civilizations, or cliffsides that look like they were carved. But when anything starts writing or building pyramids I start looking for the shark.
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General308

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #61 on: 01 June 2011, 19:08:31 »
Please, could you elaborate the thougt about resources?

  • Personally I would say that any alien race developed enough to master the interstellar flight would be more than capable to mine all needed mineral resources on deserted planets (even without atmosphere) or asteroids.
  • Energy? With fussion, fission or anti-matter reactors, or maybe even with more powerful energy sources at their disposal, what energy could possibly take from mankind?
  • Agricultural products? E.T.s stealing this year's harvest? Not probable.
  • Aliens as maneaters? Bah. (Yes, I know there are some Sci-fi series with theme like this, but I don't believe anybody would considered this seriously in Battletech).
  • Habitable planets? Maybe, but space is enough infinite. Aliens would have it easier to find some uninhabited planet than start an interstellar war.
  • Aliens stealing our women? Bah. What use would we have for females of alligators.
Make allowance for me taking part in this thread to my old love to Science-fiction.  ;)

anti-matter reactors are not allowed in CBT either. :)

Ruger

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #62 on: 01 June 2011, 19:10:40 »
Sentient aliens (Sorry; we remain committed to a strictly man-vs-man universe, at least as far as everyone can tell)

Well, as was probably said in those old threads you referenced, there's always the old joke about the Wolverines aren't missing...they are off protecting humanity against the threat of alien invaders...personally, I prefer to think of them as holding the line preventing the Tetatae hordes from pecking us all to death...

 :D

Edit: Seriously though, I prefer my BTech sans advanced sentient aliens that can be a threat to humanity (at least as a whole)...as others have said, there are enough of those types of universes elsewhere...I prefer my BTech like I like my Firefly...human-centric...If I want humans mixing with aliens, I have Star Wars, Star Trek, Renegade Legion, various Rifts titles, Robotech/Macross, etc....

Ruger
« Last Edit: 01 June 2011, 19:13:21 by Ruger »
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General308

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #63 on: 01 June 2011, 19:17:14 »

Tried it..hated it..I more of a Warhammer Fantasy Battle fan..but GW's constant price increases and "You gotta have this new rule book/army book now" mentality is forcing me to find a cheaper alternative.If I knew my topic would have started such a big discussion, I'd have never posted it..but hey at least it got people to state their opinions..

hey please don't let anything here discourage you.  Despite us being us.  We are always happy to have new players.   Like I said last night 90% of the threads on the board have been talked about at one point or another.    So don't let it bother you.   This thread, the battletech movie,   Stone being WoB and others come up all the time. 

In fact I am getting nostagic and sort of want to start the "Why Kerensky is a traitor to the Star League" thread.   Always a fun one.

deathfrombeyond

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #64 on: 01 June 2011, 19:57:46 »
hey please don't let anything here discourage you.  Despite us being us.  We are always happy to have new players.   Like I said last night 90% of the threads on the board have been talked about at one point or another.    So don't let it bother you.   This thread, the battletech movie,   Stone being WoB and others come up all the time. 

I believe you are forgetting an obvious topic there. More obvious than all of those topics put together.
If House Kurita is a punching bag, at least it's the weeble-wobble type that punches back. House Liao's like a speed bag that just hangs there and takes it. - Neko Bijin

Fallen_Raven

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #65 on: 01 June 2011, 20:01:06 »
In fact I am getting nostagic and sort of want to start the "Why Kerensky is a traitor to the Star League" thread.   Always a fun one.

Please don't start the Clans vs. Inner Sphere thread yet. We haven't finished the Unseen are childish anime thread yet. And until Inerstellar Operations comes out we can't cite how LAMs are broken and will destroy the game. We need to maintain the cycle of  endlessly repeated threads.
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Orin J.

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #66 on: 01 June 2011, 20:22:51 »
honestly, every time this has cropped up, it's gone the exact same way.

First poster:"why don't we have aliens?  i think they could be neat."
Eight pages of replies:"well, because then you'd have to change factors a-k and we wouldn't gain much that isn't already blablaba where's my beer and get off my lawn"
First poster: "but....i think they could be neat."

short, simple answer is there's pretty much no way to add aliens that isn't either just "pepsi zero" syndrome or already been done and would require a LOT of really awkward rewriting either way.

Please don't start the Clans vs. Inner Sphere thread yet. We haven't finished the Unseen are childish anime thread yet. And until Inerstellar Operations comes out we can't cite how LAMs are broken and will destroy the game. We need to maintain the cycle of  endlessly repeated threads.

how long until the "why are autocannons useless?" thread again? i've got a couple of zingers i forgot to use last one i'm looking forward to.
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FedComGirl

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #67 on: 01 June 2011, 20:36:47 »
I don't know why their couldn't be aliens. There's some almost sentient creatures and there's the Tetatae. I don't think aliens would really be good for a big plot line but as a small sideline, like with the Tetatae I think they'd be cool. I know I'd love to find out if the kuritan infantry group found others on that second planet. I'd also love to find out what would happen in a could hundred years when the Tetatae reverse engineer the Locust that was left with them. There's also the other human's on the planet and they have mechs now too. We could have a nice Battletech war of humans vs aliens, that could even go interplanetary between the two planets, and still be within the Battletech Universe but have no impact on the rest of the universe as a whole. It would just be a neat little side arena for people to play in. At least until the jumpships are reverse engineered and the Tetatae invade the Inner Sphere.  :D Of course by then the Third Star League has been formed and a second Reinunification War taken place to bring the Home Clans and Minor Periphery Realms back under one banner. So the only people left to fight would be aliens. Or Clan Wolverine.  :D 

HABeas2

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #68 on: 01 June 2011, 21:26:54 »
Hello,

Hmmmm. *scribble scribble scribble*

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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General308

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #69 on: 01 June 2011, 21:39:13 »
Hello,

Hmmmm. *scribble scribble scribble*

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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Tell us what  you really thing?



Hey I forgot all about the "What will Herb nuke next thread!"  Sorry 'bout that Herb :)

Centurion13

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #70 on: 01 June 2011, 22:52:49 »
...Or their psychology can be completely different and their intentions and motives so strange that the human being can't get a grasp on their thoughts. .... Or their technology is completely different.

How on earth would you do either of those?  If a human being 'can't get a grasp on their thoughts',  how would a human writer describe them?  If their technology was completely different from anything we have or know about, how would we go about describing that?

Just asking.  Aliens in BT would be redundant in the extreme.  And trying to create a sentient race whose thought processes, values, etc were truly alien, would be like trying to invent a new color in the spectrum.

Cent13

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #71 on: 01 June 2011, 22:59:21 »
... We need to maintain the cycle of  endlessly repeated threads.

Absolutely!  It adds.....er, bulk to the proceedings.  Besides which, some of us don't visit here every hour on the hour (honestly, twelve or thirteen posts a day?!  For the past six years?)  There are quite a few of those repeating threads I am seeing for the first time.  Maybe their recurrence is a healthy thing for the forums?

Inerstellar Ops - is that the companion to Clanerstellar Ops?

Cent13

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #72 on: 01 June 2011, 23:04:26 »
I tend to disagree with the no alien camp. For me the question is why are there no aliens to be found given the statistical likelihood of alien races being met?

As for what they bring, I would see them as the immovable object and unstoppable force, acting like a cross between a sleeping giant and a force of nature. They would fight us because we are vermin that are lowering property values in the Milky Way; for definitions of property values that include not being able to tolerate destructive neighbours living nearby.

As for the people leave the game if aliens were added, I would skirt that whole issue by having CGL do it as an alternative universe; a choice for those that do, not something that everyone has to do.

YMMV.

Yes.  On all three counts.  BattleTech Elseworlds!

martian

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #73 on: 01 June 2011, 23:28:24 »
How on earth would you do either of those?  If a human being 'can't get a grasp on their thoughts',  how would a human writer describe them?  If their technology was completely different from anything we have or know about, how would we go about describing that?

Just asking.  Aliens in BT would be redundant in the extreme.  And trying to create a sentient race whose thought processes, values, etc were truly alien, would be like trying to invent a new color in the spectrum.

Cent13

Well, when I was younger, I liked Science-fiction very much. I had more free time too. There were many stories and novels about this problem, but I can recommend you this one because of its quality:
Strugatsky, Arkady and Boris: Roadside Picnic. MacMillan Publishing Co., Inc, New York, 1977
(+ there were another two or three other editions in the USA)

Aliens came, they did whatever it was their intention, and they departed. They left and (maybe intentionally) lost some very very interesting devices (Empties, Black Sprays, Batteries or Pins and other things). I will not describe it farther because I don't want to spoil the book for you. As I said, you can read it for yourself because it's actually very thin book (150 or 160 pages at most).

So the description can be done can be - but in my post you quoted I wrote it to show how difficult would be integration of this into Battletech universe.


HABeas2

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #74 on: 01 June 2011, 23:29:01 »
Hello,

Tell us what  you really thing?

Can't. That would be trolling. Sorry.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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General308

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #75 on: 01 June 2011, 23:47:37 »
Bottom line is this.  Other than people wanting aliens because they think aliens or cool.  I have not ever seen one good argument as to why the game needs them.    I just can't think of anything they can do that humans can't do in the game.        To add them with any ablity's humans don't have would I think dramaticly change the feel to the game and make it to much like so many other scifi settings

worktroll

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #76 on: 02 June 2011, 00:54:10 »
Yes.  On all three counts.  BattleTech Elseworlds!

No, no! It's BattleTech Extended Universe!  :D Where Max shot first!

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Fallen_Raven

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #77 on: 02 June 2011, 01:58:59 »
Hello,

Hmmmm. *scribble scribble scribble*

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
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 :o  [AAAH] I'm scarred now. How much will it cost to keep you from doing what I fear you're doing?
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A. Lurker

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #78 on: 02 June 2011, 03:13:57 »
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment and ask the people who argue that aliens are unnecessary because they wouldn't add anything new "Well, and what do the specific human factions we have actually add to the game, exactly?"

I mean, the canon universe is nice and all...but really, Liao vs. Davion, Steiner vs. Kurita, Inner Sphere vs. Clans, everybody vs. the unimaginable might of the Tetatae Armada: it's at heart just yet another iteration of Red vs. Blue. There's nothing new under the sun here anyway.

(And yes, that's the main reason I've personally grown a bit distant from and disillusioned about the whole "canon" thing over the years.)

StCptMara

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #79 on: 02 June 2011, 03:34:33 »
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment and ask the people who argue that aliens are unnecessary because they wouldn't add anything new "Well, and what do the specific human factions we have actually add to the game, exactly?"

I mean, the canon universe is nice and all...but really, Liao vs. Davion, Steiner vs. Kurita, Inner Sphere vs. Clans, everybody vs. the unimaginable might of the Tetatae Armada: it's at heart just yet another iteration of Red vs. Blue. There's nothing new under the sun here anyway.

(And yes, that's the main reason I've personally grown a bit distant from and disillusioned about the whole "canon" thing over the years.)

There are five sources of war: For Land, For Wealth, For Life, For Freedom, and For Some King's Lies. In essence,
each of the houses represents one of these:
The Confederation is For Land(their own!)
The Combine and Clans are For Life, because in both factions, battle is life.
For Wealth is pretty much the Lyrans.
For Freedom, ultimately, is the Free World's League(why else would they always be having Civil Wars?).
Federated Suns is the standard of For Some King's Lies.

On top of that, even though the Clan culture is rather alien, it, like the Successor Houses, is very human. We can
see ourselves in them. We can understand their motivations because, ultimately, they are the same as ours.
In essence, the Clans provide a situation where we can shine the light on some of the noblest aspects of humanity(the capacity for honour, for putting something greater then oneself) as well as the worst(Hubris, violence, prejudice). At the
same time, the Clans provide the ultimate culmination of Lee's "It is good that war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it" belief.

While one could say that the 5 Successor States are caricatures of various cultures, as we really look at them, we can
usually see that those are just the surface and the propaganda. As we look at each of them, we see they have their
own unique takes on the origins we would take them as lampooning. And, from there, it can be used to explore social
issues we have today. The Confederation, after all, was likely made into a sort of Neo-Communist state and bad guy because in the 1980's, the bad guys WERE the communists.

Finally, one big argument is: it is easier for humans to write about humans. We know ourselves, more or less. Can we
make an alien that is truly alien? Even in most sci-fi movies, there is a very human objective for the aliens. Usually wealth(minerals, water, women) or land(there are come to take over and "colonize" our world). Because we cannot
really make something with an alien mindset. So, ultimately, what the factions in the universe give us something for
conflict that we can relate to, without there having to be a pretense at trying to make it something other then
"Humans in funny suits."
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Sigma

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #80 on: 02 June 2011, 04:18:59 »
"Ewglu phln'slghn Battletech. Krha'gr br'clnuilha wgah'rly'ueh v'glua n'gl."

Really surprised nobody has mentioned Cthulutech by this point.  You want aliens? We'll give you aliens so terrible that you'll crawl into a hole and never come out again. And Gundamy mechs just for the hell of it.

StCptMara

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #81 on: 02 June 2011, 04:32:16 »
"Ewglu phln'slghn Battletech. Krha'gr br'clnuilha wgah'rly'ueh v'glua n'gl."

Really surprised nobody has mentioned Cthulutech by this point.  You want aliens? We'll give you aliens so terrible that you'll crawl into a hole and never come out again. And Gundamy mechs just for the hell of it.

And Evangelion-style mecha...and Guyvers
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Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

Medron Pryde

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #82 on: 02 June 2011, 04:32:54 »
I can't believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe.  I think a game with aliens is more realistic.

I don't think it is more FUN though.

Aliens, by definition, have an alien point of view, one that is hard to...really show us.  If you think about it, most aliens are really just bumpy foreheaded or long eared or ridgenecked humans in most movies or tv shows.  And the more alien they get, the harder it is to be interested by them.

I don't really have a problem with mixing aliens in with BattleTech.  Heck, there are all KINDS of aliens in BattleTech already.  ;)  But I LIKE that BattleTech decided to go human dominant the way it did.  We can all relate to humans because...well...we all are.  Except those of us reading this who aren't, and you know who you are.  ;)

Seriously, the game's made for humans.  Any faction that is going to have a large amount of a fanbase needs to be human or at least have elements that us humans can understand.  The Klingons are Sparta with bumpy heads kind of thing.  So in the end, what can I say?  Aliens don't bother me.  But BattleTech doesn't need them.

So I'm happy to have it remain without them.  You know...except for the aliens the Wolverines are fighting off of course.  They're kinda cool.  ;)
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FedComGirl

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #83 on: 02 June 2011, 05:24:17 »
Quote
Hello,

Hmmmm. *scribble scribble scribble*

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
  BattleTech
  Catalyst Game Labs

 ;D :D


Saying that aliens would have to have some alien reason for invading that us humans couldn't possibly understand is kind of silly. They're going to have the same concerns humans have. Possibly a few more like exterminating the cockroach know as man or avenging some extinct species, or doing something perverted with women.  (Sexist aliens always picking on us. Okay so we have beauty and brains but still...EW! Not that men haven't been doing that as well.  GRRR! )  The why ultimately doesn't really matter, unless you're a woman, or trying to negotiate your surrender. The big thing is you're being invaded. How do you counter their battle plans and any advanced tech they may have.

That being said, aliens aren't necessary for Battletech. Humans can, do and have had "alien" reasons for doing things no other humans could figure out. That being said, i still want to find out what happened with the Kuritan Infantry and the Tetatae. And how their invasion of the #rs Star league goes.   :D

Sigma

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #84 on: 02 June 2011, 06:43:39 »
I think the obvious answer is that they have come to feed upon our catgirls. Everything from FASAnomics to weapons ranges has drawn them like moths to a flame.





BTW-Saying aliens have our same concerns is the old rubber suit argument. I direct you again toward the Eldritch horror section. ;)

However, Battletech has a habit of saying a lot of Earth-like planets did in fact have similar evolutionary paths to our own. There wouldn't be like a dozen species of Stone Age tech hominids in the IS otherwise. Therefore rubbersuit aliens are plausible. Next April Fools, Leviathantech. We've found a species very similar to our own with advanced 20th century technology. Time to bring them under heel.

A. Lurker

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #85 on: 02 June 2011, 06:57:51 »
Next April Fools, Leviathantech. We've found a species very similar to our own with advanced 20th century technology. Time to bring them under heel.

Isn't that kind of the premise of An Entry with a Bang? ;)

FedComGirl

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #86 on: 02 June 2011, 07:01:02 »
 ;D ;D ;D

Yep. It's possible. Maybe that's where WoB got all their extra forces?

RichardC1967

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #87 on: 02 June 2011, 09:09:43 »
hey please don't let anything here discourage you.  Despite us being us.  We are always happy to have new players.   Like I said last night 90% of the threads on the board have been talked about at one point or another.    So don't let it bother you.   This thread, the battletech movie,   Stone being WoB and others come up all the time. 

In fact I am getting nostagic and sort of want to start the "Why Kerensky is a traitor to the Star League" thread.   Always a fun one.

I'm not bothered by it..if no one here asked any questions because they may or may not have been asked before, then this would just be a site where everyone would just come to and stare at each others Avatar pictures and signatures.I can almost guarantee you that when the next newbie joins this site within a month or two the same question will come up again.But this time he nor she can be directed to this thread..lol I amazed that this "old" topic has already generated 6 pages of discussions
Say what you mean, and mean what you say

HikageMaru

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #88 on: 02 June 2011, 12:53:33 »
What I want to know is, why not aliens in Axis & Allies?  Don't you get tired of Russia v. Germany v. Great Britain v. Japan v. America?  Wouldn't it be cooler if they created a version of Axis & Allies where flying saucers invaded in the 1940s?

gooseman

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Re: Why not?
« Reply #89 on: 02 June 2011, 13:22:02 »
What I want to know is, why not aliens in Axis & Allies?  Don't you get tired of Russia v. Germany v. Great Britain v. Japan v. America?  Wouldn't it be cooler if they created a version of Axis & Allies where flying saucers invaded in the 1940s?

This man need to be hired a concept developer, Nazis and Flying Saucers? Throw in some zombies and you just developed a bazillion dollar game!
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