Author Topic: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 12 June v10.64  (Read 281662 times)

Alfaryn

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #420 on: 02 December 2016, 03:06:15 »
Since I've finally decided to join these forums, I'd like to say that I also greatly appreciate Xotl's work on this thing. I find it much more useful than many official products I own, and can't wait for the 3057 tables and whatever revisions to the old material are supposed to happen.

Keep up the good work Xotl, and thank you!

ShadowFighter88

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #421 on: 06 January 2017, 20:49:25 »
Firstly, awesome work on this table Xotl, bloody spectacular.

I do have one question, though; say I'm wanting to run a campaign in 3025 or 26, is there anything on the 3028 charts in this that could cause issues (like a 'Mech that first saw service in 3027 and so wouldn't be available for the aforementioned campaign) or is it right to use as-is for a bit earlier than 3028?

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #422 on: 06 January 2017, 22:53:38 »
There's a small few new machines that show up in the '20s, Daboku, Hatchetman, Cataphract, and Raven IIRC.  There is probably a couple more, but check the intro dates on those at least.
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Xotl

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #423 on: 07 January 2017, 12:02:10 »
Offhand, the only other mech I can add to that list is the Wolfhound, which debuts in 3028.
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

Alfaryn

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #424 on: 03 February 2017, 13:52:06 »
If TRO 3039 is to be believed, the Federated Suns (or anyone except the Capellians) probably shouldn't have any Ravens prior to Fourth Succession War, as it is during that war, when the Feds captured their first Ravens, or at least it is when they had enough of them to send some of them to be reverse engineered at NAIS. Also according to MUL RVN-1X was the only Raven variant that existed prior to 3028.

Edit: Disregard my notes above - looks like there are no Ravens in Xotl's 3028 tables, other than Capellan RVN-1X, despite the fact, that the Feds should have some of them by then (I guess, that they fall under "026-050 Salvage: Liao 3028" line in the table), and the fact, that RVN-3X is marked as introduced in 3028 (I guess, that either Xotl felt there were not enough of them then to include in the table, or he just made the table to reflect the state of things at the beginning of 2028, before RVN-3X was introduced).

Either way the 3028 should be about right for 3025-3026, at least as far as Ravens go. Maybe just reduce probability of getting one a bit - say if you roll one you get say 50% chance to get it, otherwise you re-roll the 'Mech. If you use the availability tables on pages 66-85, you may also want reduce the availability number of RVN-1X a bit.

Edit 2: Most of what I said above about the Raven also goes for the Cataphract. Only CTF-1X should be available in 3025-3026 (and CTF-0X, but this one was apparently so rare, it never made into the tables), and only after the Fourth Succession War is well under way, as the 'Mech was created by the Capellans in response to loosing all of their heavy 'Mech assembly lines.
« Last Edit: 07 February 2017, 10:17:10 by Alfaryn »

beachhead1985

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #425 on: 12 February 2017, 18:33:00 »

Edit 2: Most of what I said above about the Raven also goes for the Cataphract. Only CTF-1X should be available in 3025-3026 (and CTF-0X, but this one was apparently so rare, it never made into the tables), and only after the Fourth Succession War is well under way, as the 'Mech was created by the Capellans in response to loosing all of their heavy 'Mech assembly lines.

Afraid not.

Cataphract predates 4SW, if briefly. Cataphracts feature in the Kathil raid and some of the lines are captured on Tikonov.

The mech is first featured in it's super-sexy frankenmech guise in Handbook: House Liao.
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #426 on: 18 March 2017, 00:37:36 »
So Dropbox has killed the public folder and files shared through it, which means my project links are all dead.

What are people using as a free repalcement?  I've used Dropbox to host everything here, including a lot of errata, so this is kind of important for me.  Thanks.
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
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http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #427 on: 18 March 2017, 07:09:46 »
Bummer!  Is there any way you could beg an indulgence from Catalyst to host them here (in the fan section of the forum)?

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #428 on: 18 March 2017, 08:02:19 »
So Dropbox has killed the public folder and files shared through it, which means my project links are all dead.

What are people using as a free repalcement?  I've used Dropbox to host everything here, including a lot of errata, so this is kind of important for me.  Thanks.

Google docs?

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #429 on: 18 March 2017, 08:46:06 »
Dropbox killed the public folder, but I believe you can use the Get Link feature to get a shareable link that is public so people can still download it.

Haven't tried it myself yet, but that's what I remember reading in the email they sent about this a while back.

So you could try that first before moving to another location.

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #430 on: 18 March 2017, 08:48:03 »
Dropbox killed the public folder, but I believe you can use the Get Link feature to get a shareable link that is public so people can still download it
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #431 on: 18 March 2017, 09:49:04 »
Okay, I've updated the main link.  I'll be updating various others as I recall them or people point them out.  Thanks!
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
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http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #432 on: 26 March 2017, 21:21:10 »
After a million years of infrastructure-type work in Excel (which is about 95% of the work), I'm at last able to start making the tables themselves for 3057.  Today I finished the Liao tables.  It looks like each set takes about a day to do, so it's still going to be a while, because I don't have a lot of free days anymore, but I thought I'd put Liao up for comments and a check-over.  Cheers.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk5ojphvi0e3xif/3028-3057%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%2010.0%20RELEASE.pdf?dl=0

Expect to see these tweaked between now and the final release.  But they should be fairly close.
« Last Edit: 27 March 2017, 16:35:06 by Xotl »
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
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HMS_Swiftsure

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #433 on: 26 March 2017, 22:47:11 »
Love it.  The pride of the CapCon only pilots the best CapCon products and not any clearly inferior salvaged equipment?

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #434 on: 26 March 2017, 22:56:53 »
Yeah, that's the basic idea.  Seemed to be fine in the days when production was scarce, but when the factories are actually rolling again I can't see Blandford's Grenadiers cruising around in salvaged Enforcers and what not.

Doubtless there would still be salvaged machines out there even in elite ranks; I might change my mind and just drop the salvage chance to 10% or something, and add a bonus to the salvage roll so that if you do get salvage as an elite unit member, it's probably something worth going out of your way to keep.
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HMS_Swiftsure

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #435 on: 27 March 2017, 01:38:31 »
I think it's fine as is.  The political expedience in not using a machine from a different faction could easily result in the number of captured machines in the elite forces being too small a percentage to represent on the RAT.  Strikes me as very 3057 Capellan-y, and gives a neat vibe to the list to set it apart from others to an even greater degree.

Frabby

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #436 on: 27 March 2017, 01:51:35 »
Can you provide the availability ratings for the individual chassis (in the old 1=very rare trough 10=extremely common fashion) for a quick glance?
My gut feeling says the Raven is way too common on the tables, for example.

Shouldn't the C/D/F rated units also get a shot at new Capellan glory by getting a roll on the A/B table in addition to "salvage" rolls on the Davion and Marik tables?

Also, salvage ratios... why is there a larger chance to find salvaged Marik equipent, given that the CCAF seems to be primarily fighting the AFFS (AFFC) these days? Any Marik tech that comes via the Concord of Kapteyn or trade agreements is (I assume) already hardwired into the tables and salvage would only refer to 'Mechs obtained through combat or other unfriendly means.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #437 on: 27 March 2017, 04:48:35 »
I'd say the salvage would be shipped off to the lesser units to let the best have the best hardware, myself.  Reward merit, like MadCap says.  Also, holy crap that's gonna be a lot of Vindicators, Cataphracts, and Victors.  Not that I'm complaining.

That said, Patrick McGoohan?  Nice.
« Last Edit: 27 March 2017, 04:55:28 by ANS Kamas P81 »
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Xotl

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #438 on: 27 March 2017, 10:42:55 »
2020 EDIT: I've since revised my CCAF work completely in this regard, so don't use this post for research purposes (the 3057 total estimate is wrong and the growth rates are all wrong, as I confused absorbed regiments from the Xin Sheng era with new-build regiments).  I'm leaving the post intact only to make everything else that follows understandable.


First, the Av ratings, as requested.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ecse3cz1oha1rpw/CapCon%203057%20AV%20ratings.docx?dl=0

Now, on to a lot of the fun stuff in order to answer questions.  This is also why these tables take so long to make.

The CCAF gets chopped down to an all-time low of 12 regiments following the 4th War and Adurien-Magistracy Invasion.  By 3054 we know that they're back to 19 regiments (if you include the Big Mac).  In order to justify their known 3063 total of 44 regiments, I estimate that they're up to 31 regiments by 3057.  That means that less than 40% of their ranks are pre-4th War production.  At the same time, they get dropped down to an all-time low in terms of factories as well, and those don't reappear anywhere near as fast as their regiment numbers do.  They lose Corey, they lose Styk, they lose Nanking, they lose Tikonov, they lose St. Ives.  Basically all they can build are Stingers, Wasps, Locusts, Vindicators, Ravens, and Cataphracts.  Offhand, that's it (and remember, some of those pre-4th War survivals are going to be yet more Stingers, Wasps, Locusts, and Vindicators).  That means a remarkably homogenous set of tables.  Yes, when you fight the CapCon in this era, you may lose simply by being drowned in Vindicator corpses.  Kind of boring, but that seems to be the established facts of the universe, and the whole point of these tables is to capture things like that.  At least the AB tables get some Marik bribery machines to leaven things a bit.

The other thing is that when I completely redid the tables some years back to take into account regiment numbers and known weight distributions, and tied that into my Av numbers, it means I could say with some statistical certainty just how many of X machine actually existed in any one House.  Now, because I have a record for each era I make tables for, I can be consistent in terms of these numbers.  More importantly, I should, or the work was pointless.  For instance, I start a set of 3057 tables by grabbing my excel sheet for 3050 for that faction and then begin making tweaks.  So, in 3050 Liao statistically has 51 PXH-1 Phoenix Hawks in its ranks.  Since they don't make those anymore, I have to make sure that the combined total of Phoenix Hawks in both the AB and CDF sheets for 3057 doesn't exceed 51.  If I'm off by 1 or 2, no big deal, but that's the general constraint I'm working with.

So, take 3050, figure out how many regiments are in 3057, figure out how many of those are A or B-rated vs CDF rated, figure out new production and open-market purchases new to that era, and cross check the results constantly against each other and the 3050 total to make sure it all lines up both backward in time and across both sets of unit ratings.  This took a while to set up.

Because of this combo -- the split between AB and CDF, combined with wild swings in regiment sizes for some factions -- Av numbers are often much rougher guidelines compared to what they used to be.  All that matters to me is lining up the total number of old, fixed numbers of machines (the ones no longer in production) between the 3050 tables and the 3057 tables.  The rest is gravy (we don't have production figures for newer machines, but we have the number of regiments added, so by process of elimination what is produced must fill those regiments).

Bear in mind, too, that what the Av ratings mean change depending on whether you're looking at AB or CDF tables.  The AB tables are always dealing with a much smaller number of regiments (9, in the CCAF's case).  For example, Av 2 in the AB tables means about a lance of machines scattered across 9 regiments; the same value for the CDF tables (22 regiments) means about two companies.  Because the AB-rated regiments are fewer, I could add more weird Succession War-era obscurities and SLDF leftovers to their list, whereas in the larger pool of CDF regiments they're diluted to the point of statistical extinction.

So, on to specific points:

Number of Ravens: kind of addressed above (Liao doesn't build much else).  I tried to keep the numbers of ECM ones down, though, focusing on the combat models.  You've got about 30 ECM-equipped ones scattered throughout the 22 regiments of CDF (most being the primitive -1X).

Chance for good machines in CDF ranks: thought about it, but if the well-connected premier regiments don't have enough for their needs/desires I don't see how a F-rated unit is going to get enough to statistically matter, so I removed it.  At the same time, I could allow the chance, but with a roll modifier based on unit quality, so that C has a chance and D and F do not.  Might be worth it, probably be too fiddly to bother with.  That all having been said, if a Field Manual RAT assigns something cool to a lower-tier set of units, and it's not too wacky, I'll probably run with it.

Salvage ratios: Yes, Liao fought the Davions more in recent history.  But they didn't win a single one of those battles, and you have to control the field to salvage.  I forgot to note that the salvage ratings should specify the 3025 tables only for that reason (I'll edit that in the PDF right now): it's all 3rd Succession War-era salvage.

Also, the green coloured band is part a suggestion made a while back by some clever reader asking for quick visual cues to help guide a guy flipping through these.  Each of the House tables will have their colour.
« Last Edit: 12 July 2020, 00:46:01 by Xotl »
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

Frabby

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #439 on: 27 March 2017, 12:43:27 »
Ok, good reasoning there. Need to ponder this some more. Thanks for being so thorough.  O0
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #440 on: 27 March 2017, 16:21:48 »
After a million years of infrastructure-type work in Excel (which is about 95% of the work), I'm at last able to start making the tables themselves for 3057.  Today I finished the Liao tables. 

YAY -4- OpFor! :)
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #441 on: 27 March 2017, 16:43:53 »
The CCAF did drive back the Canopians when they and the Andurians invaded. So, maybe allow for some salvage off their RAT (the old General RAT), too.

Also, three cheers for the new RAT tables!
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #442 on: 02 April 2017, 00:05:33 »
The Lyran results are, I admit, the ones I'm really waiting to see, but I can imagine the nightmare of tracking units destroyed by the Clans and what was lost, and adjusting their numbers - the same with the Kuritans, though they really ramped up with the OmniMechs and the R loadouts.
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #443 on: 04 June 2017, 20:42:52 »
Again, I have found this utility invaluable in my own games. Thank you once again, Xotl
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #444 on: 01 September 2017, 13:48:35 »
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk5ojphvi0e3xif/3028-3057%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%2010.0%20RELEASE.pdf?dl=0

Had a little more time to work on this this week.  Would have liked to get more, but there you have it.  Previous CapCon tables redone, new Kurita ones added.

I'll be introducing new roll mods for these tables:
When rolling on the 3057 tables (and the 3050 Steiner tables), apply the following modifiers instead: B (-50), C (+50), F (-100).  Lastly, D and F-rated units must re-roll any unit marked with a L (this signifies a machine with Lostech, which never trickled down to those units this early in the technological recovery, regardless of the BV of the unit in question).

The last caveat lets me allow for some lostech making it down to the C-level (which according to the Field Manuals did happen) without handing it out to D- and F-rated units.  I had hoped that the increased BV of such units would mean that they could be eliminated by simple roll mods, but some of the 3050-era revisions make a unit only negligibly better, still able to be outperformed by more optimized and heavier regular-tech machines (reflected in their higher BV, which is what I sort the mechs on these tables by).

For the Kurita tables, the Victor is not noted as a Lostech unit; this is because its TRO entry says it was shipped out to the Legion of Vega and Ghost Regiments despite being a new machine.  Technically there's a chance than even a generic F-rated unit could get one, but as there's only three non-Ghost F-rated regiments and there's only a 1 in 500 chance for one of those three units getting one I'm not too worried about it.

The CapCon tables were re-done because I realized after the first version that the Capellans no longer make assault mechs.  They could buy a few from Marik or the merc market, but there's no way they doubled their number of regiments and kept up with their assault mech ratios to match this.  As such, I halved their assault mech percentage, to 5%.  This in turn required rebalancing the other weight classes, in order to ensure the numbers of non-produced mechs didn't climb instead of fall.  I might need to do another pass on these, though to really make sure the number all line up (EDIT: and done, also also added the Catapult -C4C, which I had missed).

Comments welcome.
« Last Edit: 01 September 2017, 15:41:16 by Xotl »
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info.

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truetanker

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #445 on: 01 September 2017, 14:55:41 »
What about the Xanthos....even not being built until after the stated year, they should still be available some what, even tho they are ancient.

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #446 on: 01 September 2017, 15:10:53 »
No, I checked on that years ago, after 3075 came out.  The only old-school machines in that book that survived were the Icarus II and the Gladiator.
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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #447 on: 01 September 2017, 15:23:46 »
Now that sucks, it is a fine machine for that 3025 era. Where else can you find an AC/20-PPC totter at?  Your right became extinct around the 2SW...

Still would claim one or two around at a really low to-get target number, like 001 only, but that's just me.

I really like your new layout too, cleaner and better reflecting a good quality.

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #448 on: 01 September 2017, 16:17:13 »
Had a little more time to work on this this week.  Would have liked to get more, but there you have it.  Previous CapCon tables redone, new Kurita ones added.


Xotl, I too really appreciate these tables. Clarification, though: is the above link a preview? Is there be a new release forthcoming?

Xotl

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Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
« Reply #449 on: 01 September 2017, 16:29:33 »
Yeah, a preview/beta for the new 3057 release.  Two houses down, three to go.  I won't be doing any others for 3057 beside the Houses because I no longer have the time (just doing these five because I promised I'd get them done).
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0