IlClan Delayed for Reformat

[Nov. Col.]

If ilClan is the book that's going to define the next time period, then it's going to set the tone for BattleTech for a while - probably years - as well as the mood and theme that the current line developers want to set for BattleTech. Given it's importance as a framing piece, I'd much rather that it's delayed until the guys in charge are completely happy with it and ready to build outward on it, than have it rushed out early. I'm maybe more relaxed than I might be for other books, because I honestly really don't care that much about the Clans and because there are so many other books I'm still chewing through and thinking about, but I think no matter how frustrating it might be to keep waiting, it's better to wait than to be disappointed in the longer term.

I agree that a better product is what we all want but these delays are now at what, 4 years?

[Wrangler]

Where is the source for this?

Does Reformat means rewriting?

The source was Brent Evens, new line developer for Battletech. Essential he didn't like the IlClan book he had waiting for release because it read like after action report.  He wanted a book that was bit more exciting.

Given new manage would want do thing differently, i would imagine that some kind shake up of products were likely to happen. 

[marauder648]

If ilClan is the book that's going to define the next time period, then it's going to set the tone for BattleTech for a while - probably years - as well as the mood and theme that the current line developers want to set for BattleTech. Given it's importance as a framing piece, I'd much rather that it's delayed until the guys in charge are completely happy with it and ready to build outward on it, than have it rushed out early. I'm maybe more relaxed than I might be for other books, because I honestly really don't care that much about the Clans and because there are so many other books I'm still chewing through and thinking about, but I think no matter how frustrating it might be to keep waiting, it's better to wait than to be disappointed in the longer term.

Amen, better we get the product released and its right rather than one that's simply adequate at best or inadequate at worst.  Sure it sucks we've got to wait, but oh well, i'd rather wait and get the right book than have it rushed out.

[BrokenMnemonic]

I agree that a better product is what we all want but these delays are now at what, 4 years?

So... it's a year ahead of the next Game of Thrones novel, half a decade ahead of Interstellar Operations, and several decades ahead of the sequel to To Kill A Mockingbird?

[Sartris]

So... it's a year ahead of the next Game of Thrones novel, half a decade ahead of Interstellar Operations, and several decades ahead of the sequel to To Kill A Mockingbird?

Meanwhile, Half Life 3

[Deadborder]

Meanwhile, Half Life 3

Meanwhile, the film adaptation of Rendevous with Rama

[Sartris]

Meanwhile, the film adaptation of Rendevous with Rama

some adaptations are better left in the realm of what if

ILCLAN IS NOT ONE OF THEM PLEASE PUBLISH

[sadlerbw]

If I might make a suggestion: Give CGL a couple weeks to crawl out of the GenCon/Dragonfire rubble and see if they don't have some more interesting stuff to say. Remember, GenCon wasn't just a Con, it was also a chance to get a bunch of folks together in one place where they can meet and discuss some of the direction of BattleTech in person. Blaine Pardoe put up some pictures of a writers summit that happened during GenCon. Also, John Helfers, Mike Stackpole, and Jennifer Brozek all headed for a table at one of the Hotel restaurants one evening. I know because I was eating there and fanboy'd out on Mr. Stackpole and ambushed him on his way in!

What does this mean? Well, who knows for sure. It could be unrelated to ilClan and just pitching proposals for new fiction in general. Or, it could be part of what Brent is trying to accomplish to make ilClan be more than just another sourcebook. Either way, you may want to give it a couple weeks for the result of all those meetings to solidify a bit and then see if Brent/Ray have anything new they can tell us.

[Gaiiten]

The source was Brent Evens, new line developer for Battletech. Essential he didn't like the IlClan book he had waiting for release because it read like after action report.  He wanted a book that was bit more exciting.

Given new manage would want do thing differently, i would imagine that some kind shake up of products were likely to happen.

Thank you for the info.

So maybe more like the Jihad Hotspots books?

[Sartris]

writers summit

M A X I M I Z E F I A T

[Vition2]

So maybe more like the Jihad Hotspots books?

I, for one, certainly hope not, the news article and chaotic report format was very frustrating for me.  And while the Dark Age seems well set up for something like that, I would rather the rumor-mongering stay in the side panels or have section of their own at the end of the book.  I like things to be a bit more concrete than the chaos running amok throughout the Jihad Hotspots series.

As for the "writer's summit," I applaud the effort to get together, but feel like there really doesn't need to be a big event to use as an excuse for such, with all the face-time and screen sharing programs out there right now this can be done at any time - this isn't the 90's where people actually had to meet in person to show off their work.

[Sartris]

Interstellar expeditions tended to do a good job of separating what the in-universe writer considered truth vs rumor or speculation with clear labeling. I wouldn't mind a little in-character panic as long as it's registered as such.

[sadlerbw]

I didn't get the impression he wanted to make it like the news clips and recollections style of the Jihad stuff where you never knew what was true. More that he wanted a more entertaining voice to the information that is given.

Think of it like this: Two guys witness the British attack on Fort McHenry. One of them is Francis Scott Key, who writes a poem full of imagery and passion. Its so good we end up using it as the national anthem for the USA. It not only tells you what happens but does so in a colorful and interesting way. The other guy is a supply clerk compiling a damage assessment. It would read something like, "moderate damage to fortifications. Stocks of 18-pounder shot depleted by 60%. Stocks of 24-pounder shot depleted by 73%. Major structural elements of fort servicable. British attack repulsed. Replacement flag required, as current item damaged in bombardment." Which of those two versions would YOU find more exciting to read.

...and yes, I am fully aware some of you goofballs will greatly prefer the second one!

[Vition2]

Interstellar expeditions tended to do a good job of separating what the in-universe writer considered truth vs rumor or speculation with clear labeling. I wouldn't mind a little in-character panic as long as it's registered as such.

Yes, I agree fully.

Think of it like this: Two guys witness the British attack on Fort McHenry. One of them is Francis Scott Key, who writes a poem full of imagery and passion. Its so good we end up using it as the national anthem for the USA. It not only tells you what happens but does so in a colorful and interesting way.

Except that it doesn't, taken as a historical document all it tells you is that a battle occurred in a place and the defenders, who had a banner with stars on it, won.  Basically what I'm saying here is that without a huge amount of context, the song/poem doesn't actually tell us much.

Mostly what I'm getting at is I don't want to see something spread over half a decade with very little concrete details.  This is what I don't want to see:
3146 book - chaos snippets
3147 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3146
3148 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3147
3149 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3148
3150 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3149
Comprehensive book - organizes everything into a whole history of the conflict, mostly hitting on accurate points.

[Nerroth]

While IlClan - and whatever new era is to follow - is something I look forward to seeing, I would agree with the sentiment that it is better to wait and have it (re-)done to it maximum potential, rather than have it released before it can complete its evolution.

But if this means that there may be potential gaps between major (as in print+PDF) releases between now and...whenever the revised version of IlClan were to be published, perhaps there could be room for new products which made use of the pre-existing stack of game rules and units.

Personally, I think that the alternate Empires Aflame setting would be a good example of this. Not only would the setting not need any new Record Sheets to be drawn up (though the odd EA-unique unit or two might be interesting to see), it would allow for opportunities to use them in ways that are quite distinct from those available over in the "Prime" BT timeline. And while the original PDF ran as far as alt-3095, there could be plenty of scope to move further along the alternate timeline before running out of "new" (to them) BattleTechnologies to introduce.

But then, if there are plenty of potential "pre-IlClan" products to keep the motor running while the gestation process for whatever the road to 3250 may bring is completed, well and good.

[Death by Lasers]

  I'm just glad they are putting effort into it rather than another historical as much as I like those.  I'm also glad they are making it more "epic".  I remember on Blaine's blog on some of the early ideas for the Twilight of the Clans Saga that sounded way expansive and cataclysmic than the trail on Strana Mechty we ended up with.  If Brent is going that direction with the material I'm looking forward to it.

[GhostBear]

I would love it if there were some sort of official statement on why in the bloodnames of the founders, this is occurring. I would love to have more than second-hand paraphrasing from con goers.

Because it sounds like we went from the verge of getting a book that I have been waiting for half a decade to see... to what, maybe a 2019 release? WHY!? Because the book was dry and factual? I would fight a rabid polar bear for a dry, factual sourcebook about this. I would pay five to ten times what the finished sourcebook would cost, just to get a raw draft copy of the book that's been aborted, if I had the option. I don't even care if the material gets invalidated by the official copy, I just want an end to the waiting and wondering and waiting and theorizing and waiting and did I mention the waiting?

[Continues screaming externally]

Considering I know how the book was written at the time of my booting from status here, I'm trying to grasp how it was considered "dry and factual." It was set up and written as a hybrid between the Jihad:HS series and the Wars of Reaving.

But what do I know about developing sourcebooks under the new management. I mean, all I did was gift wrap them a success... Not my fault the gift horse has been executed.

Remember, the new LD is an artist by specialty. Not a writer. Both are creative, but both are also VERY different when it comes to the process and final product. I find it amusing an artist is critiquing the writing.

[GhostBear]

not buying that. they killed 3250 once already and then decided four years later to bring it back? wasn't the original purpose of IlClan to jump us forward? why change the focus and then after a leadership shakeup change it back again to the original, rejected premise?

seems like bad business to me to feed players a specific version of the game and then a couple years down the like be like "haha jk here's the real game we were working on please forget that other one you were paying for and do this instead!"

why not stick with the rules they were developing years ago? i strongly doubt the original 3250 vision was without any forethought on the boardgame front.

When I was around, the 3250 idea was scrapped for reasons. Herb and I planned out through 2020 the continuation of product and the timeline past 3150. So...

[sadlerbw]

Considering I know how the book was written at the time of my booting from status here, I'm trying to grasp how it was considered "dry and factual." It was set up and written as a hybrid between the Jihad:HS series and the Wars of Reaving.

But what do I know about developing sourcebooks under the new management. I mean, all I did was gift wrap them a success... Not my fault the gift horse has been executed.

Remember, the new LD is an artist by specialty. Not a writer. Both are creative, but both are also VERY different when it comes to the process and final product. I find it amusing an artist is critiquing the writing.

I don't recall exactly when you and CGL parted ways, but it has been at least a year or two now, right? It's entirely possible what you and Herb left behind isn't what landed on Brent's desk when he stepped into the LD role. I don't think any of us can be sure what 'ilClan' looked like when Brent and Ray stepped in.

[GhostBear]

I don't recall exactly when you and CGL parted ways, but it has been at least a year or two now, right? It's entirely possible what you and Herb left behind isn't what landed on Brent's desk when he stepped into the LD role. I don't think any of us can be sure what 'ilClan' looked like when Brent and Ray stepped in.

I stepped away last November. And when I left, it was exactly as it was the last 4 years on the shelf; 95% complete. Ray was part of that whole process, there was no 'stepping in' because he was basically the LD in all but title during that time and loved what had been done.

[Iron Mongoose]

As to the question of weather to take longer and offer the best product possible, I think that in a case like this it is the right call.  Sure, there will be times when you just need to cut your losses and get a product out, but if the ilClan book is to set the tone for what is to come, then it has to have the right tone in and of itself. 

Now, not having been there, I can't say how it looked before.  One of thouse who can has said, and the others I think are unlikely to either conferm or deny the claim, so I can't know what's right.  But, if we are to have a line director, then that line director needs to be alowed to direct.  It may be that director has bad direction (again, untill the book comes out I've got no evidance either way, but I do hope for the best) and that's a problem for the folks who employ him, but so long as he has their trust, then I think he has not just the right but the responcability to judge what is right for the line and what is not.  At least until the book is published, at which time we all get to judge, I suppose.

[MarauderD]

I'd take ilClan as is, and would love to have the opportunity to decide if it was dry and factual. If it is anything like Wars of Reaving, then I doubt it. Art schmart, I want to know what is happening!

[sadlerbw]

I stepped away last November. And when I left, it was exactly as it was the last 4 years on the shelf; 95% complete. Ray was part of that whole process, there was no 'stepping in' because he was basically the LD in all but title during that time and loved what had been done.

Interesting. For some reason I thought you had been away longer than that! Since I'm the one who originally tried to report what Brent was saying, I feel like I may have given you the impression that he was more negative or down on the current state of ilClan than he really was. He had a pretty long spiel about it, and I tried to condense and pull out what sounded important to me. The comment about reading like a military report was just something that was concise and resonated with me so I repeated it. He said a bunch of other stuff that was harder to condense as well, and didn't have much to do with how the book read to him.

Most of what he said gave the the impression that the majority of what he wanted to see worked on was not between the covers of the book called ilClan. He made no promises or anything, but I got the impression he felt ilClan needed to be more than a sourcebook release, and was trying to line other stuff up to support or add to it. Maybe you and Herb tried to do the same thing, and he is carrying old plans forward. Maybe I'm way off on my read of Brent and Ray and they decided to make some big changes to what you left. Either way, I'm just glad that it looks like ilClan is finally moving again.

[Colt Ward]

. . . looks like ilClan is finally moving again.

You know a glacier moves too . . ?

I think they really need to get something out to start moving the timeline forward, and it would not be little sentence teasers in a TRO.  If that means they have a series of PDF-only type stuff they want to start releasing it does need to move forward.  Right now what is out is sort of hard to build some buzz and forward momentum for the franchise.

[Mendrugo]

What would be nice would be an anthology of fiction fleshing out the key touchpoints of ilClan, possibly in conjunction with a Turning Points set of Tracks, and an Era Digest spotlighting the key movers and shakers, and the factions involved in the ilClan storyline.

[Wrangler]

I hope this thing isnt more fluffly and less thoughtful. Battletech has always wonderfully been a detailed universe. IlClan era needs to be balanced between both extremes.

[Doom]

Sometimes I think that the (present) issue with ilClan coming it is analogous to when a new boss comes into a company/department. Doesn't matter how well things were going under the previous person. The new boss has to make (arbitrary) changes to distinguish things under his/her leadership from the prior gal/guy. It's frustrating as all hell for anyone who's suffered through it. It's also nearly inevitable. I'd consider the Combat Manual delay (and lack of even PDF products) as a symptom of this. :(

[HABeas2]

Ding!

- Herb

[ChrystalNiNja88]

I'm just hoping the ilClan is not Clan Wolf. They really need to lose. LOSE, I TELL YOU!

And yes, I've seen the pic of Devlin and a Mad Cat mk IV in a Circle of Equals, and I hope punches that Mad Cat right in the face! >:D


....it'll probably be the wolves....

[Colt Ward]

I'm just hoping the ilClan is not Clan Wolf. They really need to lose. LOSE, I TELL YOU!

And yes, I've seen the pic of Devlin and a Mad Cat mk IV in a Circle of Equals, and I hope punches that Mad Cat right in the face! >:D


....it'll probably be the wolves....

So, you have not read anything from 90s & 00s, just Bonfire of Worlds?