Author Topic: Infantry Support Options  (Read 13083 times)

Terrace

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Infantry Support Options
« on: 10 November 2017, 00:26:53 »
I have to admit, there's quite a lot of options. Most of them are pretty good, while others are situational.

We all have our favorites for each situation. For general use I'd go with SRM Launchers. For those gearing up to fight other infantry I'd go with Machine Guns (or Firedrake Needlers if I'm playing LCAF). But for defending Artillery that has access to Homing Rounds, I'd give them Light TAG to give any artillery hunters a very bad day without having to resort to direct fire.

What would you pick?
« Last Edit: 10 November 2017, 10:41:52 by Terrace »

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #1 on: 11 November 2017, 20:57:10 »
In general, I prefer using long range laser rifles (e.g., the Intek) as the secondary armament for my infantry.  That lets their auto-rifles reach all the way out to 9 hexes without impacting their movement.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #2 on: 12 November 2017, 17:38:02 »
Reminds me of the clan Mauser IIC Point I created for a game.

Armor Divsor:2
25-troopers each carrying 2 Mauser IICs, one Primary and one Secondary.
68.5 round up 70 points damage @ 9 hexes for 3 tons.

Good times.

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Thunder

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #3 on: 16 November 2017, 00:50:46 »
I am unaware of rules that would allow infantry to dual wield rifles.

Would you be so kind as to expand upon how you created such a unit?

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #4 on: 19 November 2017, 17:49:17 »
There aren't any such rules. With the exception of disposable weapons*, an infantry trooper may only carry one weapon.

* There are probably other exceptions that slip my mind at the moment, but this sure isn't one of them.
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Demon55

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #5 on: 20 November 2017, 00:31:22 »
I would try to keep a few other units near my infantry to draw a little fire and add a bit of firepower.  I would also keep their APCs close enough to move them but not close enough to the Opfor to expose them to unnecessary weapons fire. 


Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #6 on: 21 November 2017, 15:35:02 »
In general, I prefer using long range laser rifles (e.g., the Intek) as the secondary armament for my infantry.  That lets their auto-rifles reach all the way out to 9 hexes without impacting their movement.

I’m not sure that is how it works, two support weapons per squad should be -1mp even if they are not technicaly ‘support weapons’.


I started with SRMs but tend towards the heavy support laser these days. I find the range more than compensates for the lack of movement. That said I keep some ‘line’ infantry platoons with rifles and machine guns nearby for anti infantry work, even if there is (imho) little in game reason to do so.

Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #7 on: 21 November 2017, 16:06:22 »
I’m not sure that is how it works, two support weapons per squad should be -1mp even if they are not technicaly ‘support weapons’.

Tech Manual is specific in saying that two Support Secondary Weapons per squad cost you mobility. If the laser rifles aren't Support weapons, they don't slow you down.

Quote from:  Tech Manual, page 151
These limits only apply when the Secondary Weapon is a Support Weapon. Platoons using Melee or Standard Secondary Weapons do not modify their mobility.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #8 on: 21 November 2017, 17:07:55 »
Mauser 960 Primary
Single Grenade Launcher (Auto) as Secondary Support

Full 9 hex range and no loss of movemnt plus 1.01 damage per troop. Best to give them the Environmental Suit, Marine for the 2.0 damage divisor. Or a Sneak Suit if some kind for better hiding.

Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #9 on: 22 November 2017, 05:07:29 »
Tech Manual is specific in saying that two Support Secondary Weapons per squad cost you mobility. If the laser rifles aren't Support weapons, they don't slow you down.

Lol I had missed that, that is wonderfully broken.

Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #10 on: 22 November 2017, 09:11:14 »
I tend to run mixed infantry companies, with one platoon of laser rifles and the rest standard auto-rifles or machineguns.  The laser rifles give you some stand-off fire capability, while the regular auto-rifles pose enough of a short range threat to keep things from closing on the laser rifle group.  In one instance, I split the one platoon into squads, with 3 squads of laser rifles and 1 with mortars for IDF support.

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #11 on: 22 November 2017, 09:13:55 »
Lol I had missed that, that is wonderfully broken.

Challenger
I wouldn't really call it broken. It's really hard to get the kind of range/damage combinations you can get using actual support weapons(or even going with a pure loadout of top-tier rifles), so the extra mobility only seems fair.
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Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #12 on: 22 November 2017, 10:44:40 »
I wouldn't really call it broken. It's really hard to get the kind of range/damage combinations you can get using actual support weapons(or even going with a pure loadout of top-tier rifles), so the extra mobility only seems fair.

I was thinking in comparison to the basic autorifle platoon.

By swapping 8 autorifles for Inteks you treble the range of the unit, barely reduce the damage output, but keep more or less the same BV.

Worse compared to a pure Intek platoon, you’ve gained a significant amount of damage but actualy decreased your BV!

Admittedly the main issue I have is the BV, a squad of assault rifles with 2 marksmen rifles looks pretty close to RL loadouts.

Challenger

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #13 on: 23 November 2017, 00:00:07 »
Thanks for the citation, Weirdo... it's been a crazy week that included losing my thumb drive with all my pdfs on it.

Challenger: the two marksmen rifles being close to real life is one of the reasons I really like that load out.  Beyond BV, it's also relatively cheap in terms of C-Bills.  Auto-rifles are ridiculously inexpensive, and Inteks are no more than vanilla laser rifles.

Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #14 on: 23 November 2017, 08:45:28 »
Challenger: the two marksmen rifles being close to real life is one of the reasons I really like that load out. 

I think its a pretty cool idea.

Challenger

Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #15 on: 23 November 2017, 17:50:01 »
Ok, next question. When a Platoon's primary weapon is some form of Laser Rifle, what would you consider the standard option for their support weapons?

Ruger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #16 on: 23 November 2017, 19:49:39 »
Ok, next question. When a Platoon's primary weapon is some form of Laser Rifle, what would you consider the standard option for their support weapons?

Support Laser or Support Pulse Laser...maybe semi-portable versions on gyroscopic harnesses...or maybe support PPC's...

Or, if you want a bit of variety in the unit, some type of missile...

Of course, you could just do some semi-portable or support machine guns...if you keep it to one per squad, then the range should be based off the laser rifles, and damage for the unit would not be majorly impacted...

Although I personally like the option of man-portable plasma rifles...

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Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #17 on: 24 November 2017, 01:03:42 »
Came up with a Solahma Infantry Point that had the Clan Pulse Laser Rifle as their primary armament, with each squad getting a Clan ER Laser Rifle as their "support weapon" (And since it would make sense to put it in the hands of the best Warrior in each squad, Clan ranking logic would make it the Squad Commander's personal rifle).

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #18 on: 27 November 2017, 15:04:59 »
Ok, next question. When a Platoon's primary weapon is some form of Laser Rifle, what would you consider the standard option for their support weapons?

Machine guns, 1 per squad. (Realisticaly I’d prefer two, but it messes up the range)

IMHO an infantry squad needs an automatic weapon to lay down suppressive fire. A pulse laser would be better for uniformity of ‘ammunition’, but I don’t consider any of them to be light enough for use in the ‘light machine gun’ role.

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Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #19 on: 27 November 2017, 15:10:36 »
Machine guns, 1 per squad. (Realisticaly I’d prefer two, but it messes up the range)

IMHO an infantry squad needs an automatic weapon to lay down suppressive fire. A pulse laser would be better for uniformity of ‘ammunition’, but I don’t consider any of them to be light enough for use in the ‘light machine gun’ role.

Challenger

Checking Sarna.net's info on infantry weapons, the semi-portable Support Pulse Laser is slightly lighter than a Support Machine Gun (40kg compared to 44) in return for more than double the range. If you've got infantry strong enough to carry the thing around, then why not use it?

Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #20 on: 27 November 2017, 16:10:48 »
Sorry should have clarified i meant the portable machine gun not the full blown support version. At 11.5kg it is heavy but manageable for a squad pushing forward into contact.

I’d be tempted to treat the support machine gun and semi portable pulse lasers in the same way as a modern 50cal, a support platoon weapon, not something to be dragged about by rifle platoons.

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Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #21 on: 27 November 2017, 16:22:21 »
Sorry should have clarified i meant the portable machine gun not the full blown support version. At 11.5kg it is heavy but manageable for a squad pushing forward into contact.

I’d be tempted to treat the support machine gun and semi portable pulse lasers in the same way as a modern 50cal, a support platoon weapon, not something to be dragged about by rifle platoons.

Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #22 on: 27 November 2017, 16:57:35 »
We are still talking about 40kg of dead weight which is something like half the weight of your average trooper! The harness might let them fire it accurately, but I’d question if most troopers could carry it far and remain combat effective.

That said it depends on what your using it for. A squad support weapon for a foot platoon needs to be light enough to carry into the assault. For a ‘motorised’ platoon the squad support weapon can be much heavier as it can be left mounted on the squads’ vehicles. Mind you, my problem for motorised platoons is resisting the temptation to give them all heavy support lasers!  >:D

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Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #23 on: 27 November 2017, 17:16:05 »
And what about Jump Platoons? I know they take some kind of penalty on Support weapon weight in exchange for their mobility. What kind of Support weapon would be standard for them?

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #24 on: 27 November 2017, 17:49:46 »
Honestly, I'd be inclined to go with no support weapons at all. Use their mobility to the fullest, and equip them with something high on damage and low on range. If mechs are motivated to avoid a jump platoon's engagement range and have a chance of doing so, you can use those platoons to influence the movement of those mechs, herding them according to your designs.

If it'll get you another point or so of damage, I guess go ahead and give them a support weapon per squad. Above all, do not slow them down. The Auto Grenade Launcher might be good here. Anything with a crew value of 1 (not 1E) is good, as well as a base range of 1 through 4. That's how you get the -2 modifier at pointblank range that convinces a mech or tank that they wandered into the wrong neighborhood. (Note that the light machine gun Challenger mentioned fills this requirement, but none of the heavier ones do, nor do any kind of support laser.)
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Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #25 on: 27 November 2017, 17:52:37 »
And what about Jump Platoons? I know they take some kind of penalty on Support weapon weight in exchange for their mobility. What kind of Support weapon would be standard for them?
Now thats an interesting question I’ve never realy considered.

My gut says the weapons needs to be light weight for the rifle platoons because they still have to be carried forwards by the strength in your arms. But, there is little reason why larger weapons couldn’t be used in the support platoons. Interestingly though the rules allow even heavy support lasers to move and fire!

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Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #26 on: 27 November 2017, 18:19:33 »
Now thats an interesting question I’ve never realy considered.

My gut says the weapons needs to be light weight for the rifle platoons because they still have to be carried forwards by the strength in your arms. But, there is little reason why larger weapons couldn’t be used in the support platoons. Interestingly though the rules allow even heavy support lasers to move and fire!

Challenger

Yeah, according to Sarna, the "typical" example for using Jump Infantry in an Anti-Mech (here) role gives each squad a Heavy Support Laser. But then, I figure that group's job is to wait in ambush using Hidden Rules, then blasting a big chunk out of the enemy armor using a Point Blank shot, then using their Jump Packs to vanish before the target can return fire.

Set up in the next ambush point, rinse, repeat.

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #27 on: 27 November 2017, 18:52:58 »
I don't see anything saying that's a 'typical' platoon. That's just one of the many platoon types in 3085, a lot of which are extremely specialized and uncommon.
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #28 on: 27 November 2017, 19:51:41 »
*snip*
If it'll get you another point or so of damage, I guess go ahead and give them a support weapon per squad. Above all, do not slow them down. The Auto Grenade Launcher might be good here. Anything with a crew value of 1 (not 1E) is good, as well as a base range of 1 through 4. That's how you get the -2 modifier at pointblank range that convinces a mech or tank that they wandered into the wrong neighborhood. (Note that the light machine gun Challenger mentioned fills this requirement, but none of the heavier ones do, nor do any kind of support laser.)
Yes, the Automatic Grenade Launcher is the best way to go if you're looking for one Support Weapon per Squad without going to a 1E weapon.  With 1.49 points of damage, it's just too good to pass up.  Throw six Auto-Rifles at the rest of a squad, and you have a Jump Squad that can do 5 points of damage with that -2 bonus and full mobility.  It also shares the Auto-Rifles ridiculously low price.  For under 1,000 C-Bills, you get  the Support Weapon version of the Auto-Rifle. Among the Machine Guns, only the Light is cheaper, but you're better off with an Auto-Rifle than one of those...

Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #29 on: 27 November 2017, 20:15:17 »
So a reasonable fluff-based cutoff for maximum size on Support Weapons for Jump Infantry would be 20kgs if you don't plan on sacrificing mobility?

 

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