Author Topic: Elemental Trial of Position  (Read 3120 times)

Terrace

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Elemental Trial of Position
« on: 04 December 2017, 15:35:51 »
We know what the typical MechWarrior ToP typically looks like, thanks to numerous depictions in novels and fanfiction, but what about the other branches/phenotypes?

It's easy enough to judge Aerospace Trials as a series of one-on-one ASF duels, but what about the Elementals?

Given that we know:

- It takes five times as many Elementals to equal a certain number of MechWarriors on organizational charts

- Elementals are far more likely to be outright killed against an enemy that knows what they're doing, even if most of the Point withdraws safely

- Trials of Position are live-fire exercises with full-up military gear

What exactly do you figure an Elemental's Trial of Position looks like? They can't possibly send Elemental Cadets in suits up against full-on Assault OmniMechs if they want to graduate enough new Elementals to cover normal attrition, even during the pre-Revival days...

AlphaMirage

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #1 on: 04 December 2017, 16:05:56 »
I typically fluff them as Unaugmented fights for point leader, a series of obstacle courses with real Mechs firing powered down weapons that still hit but are not powerful enough to punch through.

I think it would carry heavily Clan by Clan based on how they use their Elementals.  Clans with more Nova's would add a mounted assault against another Nova.

Elementals need to work together the most of any Clan Warrior.  They already know they can fight but can they accomplish the objective?

Crimson Dynamo

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #2 on: 04 December 2017, 17:47:14 »
We actually saw an Elemental ToP in Test of Vengeance. IIRC, it was 1v1 with full armor and weapons-free.

Elemental weapons would likely have a tough time easily breaching other Elementals armor (at least fatally), especially as SRMs seem to be HE missiles that detonate on contact. Perhaps their Trials were only until the first breach of armor or until incapacitated.
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Archangel

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #3 on: 05 December 2017, 08:16:01 »
Its sounds like the OP is specifically asking about the initial Trial of Position that Elementals take.  Unfortunately in that case the only example that comes close, in my mind, is the Dragoons' bastardized version in Wolf Pack that Elson Novacat undergoes with other Elementals.  The trial in Test of Vengeance wasn't a Trial of Position but rather a Trial of Possession for Star Captain Carl's rank and position.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #4 on: 05 December 2017, 11:47:12 »
It was alluded to upthread but I'm going to reiterate the point that a fundamental difference between Mechwarriors' and everyone else's initial Trials of Position/Blooding is that a Mechwarrior's Blooding needn't worry about the rank of Point Commander... one kill means they're both "in" as a Warrior, and implicitly also a Point Commander since all Mechwarriors are "point commanders" of their own one mech point.

The Mechwarriors' Bloodings terms don't fit as neatly for the rest of the Touman.. as there certainly is a distinction between being a Warrior and being a Point Commander in every other non-Mech branch.  In my own mind I'd expect that the terms of the Blooding are just dislocated by a single step after the 1st kill.  I.E. 1 kill gets you in as a Warrior, 2nd Kill means Point Commander,  3rd Star Commander, etc.  It makes sense to me because the BTU is 'Mech Centric "in universe" as well as in a meta sense.  Potential for higher rank in a Mechwarrior Blooding than in "lesser" forces' Bloodings is just par for the course.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that conventional vehicles may have yet another step of dislocation.. 1 kill to become a tank crewman. 2 kills to become a tank commander, 3 kills to become a Point Commander in a tank formation.  Most Clans in most Eras wouldn't have very many tanker officer billets available, anyway.  And a two step dislocation seems like a very natural thing for tankers given the attitudes about conventional forces by most Clans in most Eras.

I suppose it's also possible that there's no dislocation as I hypothesized.. perhaps everyone who satisfactorily gets the minimum score in a Blooding is both a Warrior and potentially a Point Commander.  Perhaps the Point Commander rank is special in that it's determined among newly minted Warriors via some process Post-Blooding, and never done for MechWarriors because it's moot.
« Last Edit: 05 December 2017, 11:55:44 by Tai Dai Cultist »

Rtifs

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #5 on: 05 December 2017, 13:36:13 »
How it is or how it should be?  Well here’s how I see it.

Like mechwarriors, it’s a series of three one-on-one fights.  If the candidate wins the first, he is a warrior, if the second, he’s a Point Commander, if the third, he’s a Star Commander.  It would be fought augmented with fully powered weapons. 

There would/should be a defined victory condition.  This is important since it wouldn’t be prudent to require a candidate to kill one to three veteran warriors to become a warrior - attrition from ToPs alone would decimate the infantry corps (i.e, the infantry corps could never grow in size).  So the candidate is probably allowed to fight to the death.  But the veterans would be considered defeated prior to that point.  Maybe when armor is down to a certain point (1 or 2 points left maybe).  The veteran should also surrender liberally in these tests – not out of cowardice, or to throw the fight, but to preserve clan resources once the candidate has the upper hand. 

Finally, I think the candidate should start in a tough suit of armor, and his first opponent should be in light(er) armor.  This also seems to happen in MW trials where candidates start in heavy or assault mechs quite often.

ToPs for rank advancement should be different.  The two candidates should fight unaugmented or in their traditional armor.  Since there is a lot at stake here, the fight should go till one is unconscious, dead, or surrenders. 

Hellraiser

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #6 on: 07 December 2017, 22:27:41 »
It was alluded to upthread but I'm going to reiterate the point that a fundamental difference between Mechwarriors' and everyone else's initial Trials of Position/Blooding is that a Mechwarrior's Blooding needn't worry about the rank of Point Commander... one kill means they're both "in" as a Warrior, and implicitly also a Point Commander since all Mechwarriors are "point commanders" of their own one mech point.

My guess is its still Warrior-Commander-Captain during their initial TOP trials.

But later, once assigned to a unit, then all "Warriors" then have tests inside their "Point" for positions of Point Commander or Vehicle Crew Slot.

Or those things being "lesser" might simply be assigned by the Trinary/Cluster commander & you can later "duel" it out within the point if your Tank Commander or Point Commander prove incompetent.
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Foxx Ital

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #7 on: 08 December 2017, 18:48:36 »
Jake Kabrinski took out 2 warriors in his initial ToP. Unlike other branchs, you go point member, point commander on 2 kills, star on 3. Think you get nominated for ilkhan if you get 4 ;)
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Archangel

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #8 on: 10 December 2017, 09:21:03 »
Each Clan likely puts their own twist on the ToP depending upon the importance of Elementals in their touman.  For example, some Clans might have the Elementals have to start out without their armor and have to fight/sneak their way to their battle armor before the Trial starts in earnest (like Aidan Pryde's initial ToP with Marthe Pryde).  The Ice Hellions likely incorporate speed into their Elementals' initial ToP given their love of speed while the Snow Ravens and Cloud Cobras possibly have their Elementals conduct their trials in space given their preference for aerospace.
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Alan Grant

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #9 on: 29 January 2018, 17:21:22 »
In my eyes it's pretty simple. 1v1 combat against another Elemental in full armor.

The full armor is a good thing. An Elemental can easily become incapacitated by virtue of an important component of the armor being trashed. Actuators failing, power loss etc. We've seen Clanners still fight honorably and lose by heaving too because they can no longer fight effectively. Well short of death. I imagine a Trial of Position is a lot like that in many cases. The Ghost Bear Jake defeated his opponent in the ToP portrayed in that book in full armor and his opponent survived and was a continuing character in the novel.

In some regards that's more survivable than other forms of ToP. Fighter pilot ejections aren't exactly fun or risk free. Yet conventional wisdom suggests almost every Clan fighter pilot got shot down at some point in their first ToP. Whether after the first kill or the second. Yes some might withdraw if their fighter is belching smoke and barely flyable. At that point they can turn back to the airbase with their honor intact. But with fighters the line between "I'm completely operational" and "This bird is going down!" is a single good hit. So I imagine a lot of fighter pilots end their ToP hanging from a parachute. Assuming the parachute opens and a hundred other things go right with the ejection so the newly minted warrior doesn't die amid the victory. My point is, what Elementals have is more survivable and its easier to manage that line between "I'm winning and ok...I'm winning and ok...<sound of explosion> ok now I'm in trouble, lost power to the leg and something hurts, Trial over!" With the medics able to rush in moments later.

I've also always imagined 1 kill means warrior, 2 kills means point commander and so on. Otherwise every Elemental would be a point commander or better and the Clans need more rank and file Elementals than they need Point Commanders or Star Commanders.
« Last Edit: 29 January 2018, 17:24:35 by Alan Grant »

marauder648

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Re: Elemental Trial of Position
« Reply #10 on: 30 January 2018, 02:59:37 »
Have to agree with Alan and Archangel here, for example in a ToP for Elementals a 'kill' could be when the other Elemental is simply not able to move, be it due to injury or damage to their suit.  An Elemental would probably go for knee/arm joints to injure the other Elemental or disable their suit and cripple their mobility.  With Clan medical tech they can heal a lot after all.  And once a suit is disabled, or the other Elemental unable to continue, then its a 'kill'.

But going for higher rank, like Star Colonel etc, those trials seem to whittle down competitors until there's only two candidates who then compete for it (much like Bloodnames) and then its to the death.

Also it depends on the Clan, the Ghost Bears might well have far less lethal trials than say the Smoke Jaguars, we know that Lincoln Osis killed anyone who got in his way in Trials (or anyone who pissed him off/looked at him funny/brought him a latte instead of an espresso etc, lets be honest here, Lincoln Osis's typical walk to the Office was basically this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NvShv9MB_U  ) so it also helps with the Clan itself.
« Last Edit: 30 January 2018, 03:07:26 by marauder648 »
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