Poll

How do you feel about using a lot of LB-X cluster munitions in your games

It's cheap and unsportsmanlike
0 (0%)
Takes up too much game time rolling dice
11 (16.4%)
Hey, all is fair in love and war >:D
56 (83.6%)

Total Members Voted: 67

Author Topic: Mass LB-X flak in games  (Read 12045 times)

Crow

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Mass LB-X flak in games
« on: 08 January 2018, 06:51:20 »
So I'm building a Mech battalion for a Amaris Civil War game and I was planning on bringing at least two lances of Royal Shadow Hawks. What do you think about the idea? Cheap tactic or awesome?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #1 on: 08 January 2018, 06:55:20 »
This is the timeframe that has Annihilators being developed with four LB10X.

Get your dice and start rollin'.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #2 on: 08 January 2018, 09:54:19 »
Are you expecting that many VTOLs & tanks?

Personally I do not see the problem, its not like you are talking about a army of Royal Sentinels.
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #3 on: 08 January 2018, 09:59:34 »
Only eight clusterguns for a non-intro-tech battalion? What happened to the rest?

Eight LB-X in a battalion is an undersupplied battalion.
Eight LB-X in a company means the player is slightly quirky about liking LB-X.
Eight LB-X in a lance might be pushing it. If most of them are -20s.

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truetanker

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #4 on: 08 January 2018, 23:44:36 »
Go LB-X Carriers!

Add some LRM-5 love with those twin LBs!

Crow think about this, 4 LB-X Carriers and Royal Von Luckners oh my...

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YingJanshi

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2018, 01:00:58 »
Well...since it's Star League Era it should realistically be a full battalion of the same 'Mech so...

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Pooman

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #6 on: 09 January 2018, 03:39:32 »
I went for the third option but I guess you're worried about being a a bad sport?

I guess if you think it's a bit beardy, maybe it is? Are you playing to win or have fun? I guess that's the only question that matters.
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #7 on: 09 January 2018, 09:56:33 »
Are you playing to win or have fun? I guess that's the only question that matters.
More like "Does your opponent have a sense of humor" being the most important question.  If offbeat and radical stuff on the table is the norm, go for it.  If there's nobody already named Richard in the group, and the usual play style is "don't be a Dick", then you might want to re-think your lance composition.

Getz

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #8 on: 09 January 2018, 14:37:17 »
You could use slugs...  Radical idea, I know.

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Nightsong

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #9 on: 09 January 2018, 16:31:21 »
I admit I’m a huge fan of LB-X ACs (my personal ride is a KGC-005  }:) ), though I usually go more slugs on a unit that has backup guns or some other cluster maker, like an MML or SRM since unless it’s crit or die, 2 LB20-X cluster rounds I need the same turn is overkill. I ought to make a dice box though...

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #10 on: 10 January 2018, 01:11:43 »
I don't see a problem with it.  LB-10s average out to 6 pellets per hit.  That means 24-48 shots if they all hit.  If you had multiple SRM launchers it wouldn't be that much different.  Just make certain to have enough dice to roll them all quickly and a quick box set up for the purpose wouldn't be a bad idea.   I have a box set up for 20 pellets, but haven't had to use them all that often.

Deadborder

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #11 on: 10 January 2018, 01:56:51 »
The players in the AToW game I run have decided that the more LBX pellets one puts out, the better. Of the five PCs, three have 'Mechs with LBX on them. And a fourth has a Silver Bullet Gauss, so yeah
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SCC

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #12 on: 10 January 2018, 03:21:33 »
B, with a side order of A. I think the real problem with wasn't introducing DHS, but rather not but a limit on the number clusters a unit can generate, after all the Alcorn would probably be less fun to play if it mounted 3 LB-10X's instead of triple Gauss.

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #13 on: 10 January 2018, 21:06:45 »
For its tonnage, the Alacorn could mount 4 LB10-Xs in place of the GRs and add a ton of ammo.
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grimlock1

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #14 on: 13 January 2018, 16:35:37 »
I admit I’m a huge fan of LB-X ACs (my personal ride is a KGC-005  }:) ), though I usually go more slugs on a unit that has backup guns or some other cluster maker, like an MML or SRM since unless it’s crit or die, 2 LB20-X cluster rounds I need the same turn is overkill. I ought to make a dice box though...

There is a very nice little app for Android that, among other things allows, will roll on the cluster table, and give locations.  It also lets you modify the Cluster hits roll to account for AMS, Artemis, HAG range, etc.
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #15 on: 13 January 2018, 18:31:30 »
For its tonnage, the Alacorn could mount 4 LB10-Xs in place of the GRs and add a ton of ammo.
Or a C3S  >:D
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #16 on: 13 January 2018, 18:37:02 »
Only eight clusterguns for a non-intro-tech battalion? What happened to the rest?

Eight LB-X in a battalion is an undersupplied battalion.
Eight LB-X in a company means the player is slightly quirky about liking LB-X.
Eight LB-X in a lance might be pushing it. If most of them are -20s.

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LOL,  I think I might disagree & say that your level's might be a bit overkill.

Having a LBX Autocannon on 1 out of every 4-5 mechs is hardly under-supplied.
Having them on 2/3 of your company is way past quirky.
Having 2/Mech is a dedicated ADA platform in any era.


For the OP, the question comes down to how often are you playing that entire battalion?

If its on Megamech then who cares, if its on the table top, then your bigger problem is moving/shooting 36 units by yourself in something that will get done before next week.
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StoneRhino

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #17 on: 13 February 2018, 02:13:00 »
I think you went rather extreme on the possible choice of "cheap" or "awesome". 8 LBX10s shouldn't be an issue for most players unless they are brand spanking new. Assuming that half of them will hit, and then you'll likely hit with an average number of pellets, that leaves you with far fewer then 80 potential pellets, ignoring the streak 2s.

What it should come down to is how well can you manage those dice rolls and hit locations? Some people overestimate their ability to control units and burn up a lot of game time. That is going to be the main issue, not that you reduced your damage output significantly to try and crit seek. If you are not used to controlling such units in that number then either practice running them at home, or start at 50% and then add more of those units over time.

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #18 on: 15 February 2018, 17:31:33 »
Upon further consideration if you came to a game I was GMing with a force full of LB-10X's I'd enforce the following conditions:
You supply the Box of Death.
You must memorize the hit location charts
Limit of one critical hit and for vehicles one motive hit per turn, with cockpit hit counting as crits.

And if choice of such weaponry becomes endemic, reducing range on cluster mode.

Colt Ward

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #19 on: 15 February 2018, 17:58:44 »
I was agreeing right up until that 4th item.  The game has hard counters to LBX spam, and the weapon is balanced already.
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #20 on: 15 February 2018, 18:43:35 »
Upon further consideration if you came to a game I was GMing with a force full of LB-10X's I'd enforce the following conditions:
You supply the Box of Death.
You must memorize the hit location charts
Limit of one critical hit and for vehicles one motive hit per turn, with cockpit hit counting as crits.

And if choice of such weaponry becomes endemic, reducing range on cluster mode.

Really, REALLY glad you and I probably don't live within five hundred miles of each other. I don't care how far I drove to get to a game or how long it's been since I played: A GM tries to pull that on me, I'm turning around and driving home, then and there.
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SCC

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #21 on: 16 February 2018, 03:03:33 »
I was agreeing right up until that 4th item.  The game has hard counters to LBX spam, and the weapon is balanced already.
Only one I can think of of Ferro-Lamuer, and that's not available in the era he seems to be wanting to play.

Also note that this is designed to prevent loss of forces to to large numbers of 'lucky' crits

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #22 on: 16 February 2018, 03:27:54 »
Hardened will also make getting those crits harder . . . or you just stay further than 18 hexes away until you have wrecked some of the carriers.
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #23 on: 16 February 2018, 04:16:16 »
Hardened will also make getting those crits harder . . .
Not available in time-frame

or you just stay further than 18 hexes away until you have wrecked some of the carriers.
There's more option then I thought for this, but maybe Weirdo could often his opinion on how likely this is to be doable? I don't think there's going to be a lot of design's that are effective beyond this range in that time-frame.

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #24 on: 17 February 2018, 06:43:22 »
Really, REALLY glad you and I probably don't live within five hundred miles of each other. I don't care how far I drove to get to a game or how long it's been since I played: A GM tries to pull that on me, I'm turning around and driving home, then and there.

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I second the idea that I would rather not play if people are going to effectively cheat as others stand around mindlessly accepting the home rules. They might not like lbx clusters flying at them, but chances are they like to use certain things that someone else could declare to be abusive for whatever reason. I would rather step away and let them implode.

Getz

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #25 on: 17 February 2018, 10:54:22 »
The cancer of the game, GMing. Making sure that someone does not cause the game to come to a complete stop is one thing, but changing the rules to punish the use of a particular weapon or playstyle is something that can cause a lot of problems.

I second the idea that I would rather not play if people are going to effectively cheat as others stand around mindlessly accepting the home rules. They might not like lbx clusters flying at them, but chances are they like to use certain things that someone else could declare to be abusive for whatever reason. I would rather step away and let them implode.

I completely agree.  LBX clusters are hardly the most OP thing in the game and if you've ever had a pilot cherry-pitted out of some sort of heavily armoured gauss monster or something then that's a feature of the game, not a bug that needs fixing...

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #26 on: 17 February 2018, 17:17:46 »
Upon further consideration if you came to a game I was GMing with a force full of LB-10X's I'd enforce the following conditions:
You supply the Box of Death.
You must memorize the hit location charts
Limit of one critical hit and for vehicles one motive hit per turn, with cockpit hit counting as crits.

And if choice of such weaponry becomes endemic, reducing range on cluster mode.

You wouldn't get to GM around here.

SCC

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #27 on: 17 February 2018, 17:21:39 »
This isn't in response to someone wanting to bring a single LB-10X, it's in response to someone wanting to bring a bunch of them, very different response.

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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #28 on: 18 February 2018, 07:08:59 »
This isn't in response to someone wanting to bring a single LB-10X, it's in response to someone wanting to bring a bunch of them, very different response.

We saw that. Give other posters´ reading skills some credit, okay?
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Re: Mass LB-X flak in games
« Reply #29 on: 18 February 2018, 13:51:10 »
Upon further consideration if you came to a game I was GMing with a force full of LB-10X's I'd enforce the following conditions:
You supply the Box of Death.
You must memorize the hit location charts
Limit of one critical hit and for vehicles one motive hit per turn, with cockpit hit counting as crits.

And if choice of such weaponry becomes endemic, reducing range on cluster mode.

1. Everyone should had a "Box-o'-Death". Cheap to make and speeds up most dice rolling.
2. And again every moderately experienced player should have those tables already memorized.
3. I can kind of see where you are coming from with that, it still feels like too much streamlining. Might as well play Alpha Strike at that point.
4. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's only recourse is to nerf/penalize or outright ban equipment/units/game mechanics than that person is a both a bad tactician and a bad sport.

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