BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Alpha Strike => Topic started by: Nerroth on 18 March 2013, 15:34:25
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Alpha Strike: The TableTop Miniatures Rulebook (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=4890)
(http://d15yciz5bluc83.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/CAT35600_AlphaStrike_Cover_580wide.jpg)
As noted in recent BattleChats and the BattleBlog, the upcoming Alpha Strike supplemental rulebook is starting to take shape.
- It will be a full-colour supplemental rulebook, in a similar vein as A Time of War Companion (in terms of its relation to the Total Warfare through whatever Interstellar Operations will end up being axis) but as a stand-alone introduction to the Quick-Strike game engine.
- It will have support for both hex-based and hexless play.
- It will most likely be initially presented as a Clan Invasion product.
- The first batch of pdf expansions are in the works.
- Certain unit types, such as LAMs (and whatever "new" toys we may get in 3145), are not covered in the first book, but are options for later expansions.
- There is a somewhat limited WarShip presence in the core book, but they are more likely to show up in force in a later expansion.
- More in-depth support for other eras (such as the Dark Age) might also be fodder for later expansions.
- The core rules are done, and "crash" playtesting is afoot. Work on other written material for the project is in progress.
- It should be released (fingers crossed) before the end of the year.
- In the longer run, the existence of AS as "its own thing" may have an effect on future sourcebooks and TROs, in terms of how the unit cards for new toys might be presented.
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EDIT: This opening post has been adjusted to make it easier to keep all of the relevant data in one place. Below is the information originally posted here.
Alpha Strike
[17:45] <Pa_Weasley> Can you give any nuggets of information about the Alpha Strike book/product you mentioned in previous chats? (Sorry if that's already been asked.)
[17:48] <@Habeas2> At present, the book is well into writing, and is planned to release as a hardcover, full-color supplemental rulebook. The core writing is largely done or well underway, and we have ample material for a series of PDF-exclusive support products that simply wouldn't have fit in there without breaking the bank. Fans of miniature wargaming, in particular, should find it a great resource.
[17:55] <garydee> Is Alpha Strike Quick Strike renamed?
[17:58] <@Habeas2> Garydee - Mmmmmmmmmmaybe?
[18:06] <@Habeas2> Pa_Weasley - You're not the only one.
Alpha Strike:
[01:05] <Jo_Jo_Monkey> Is the Alpha Strike book considered a “core” rulebook?
[01:06] <@Habeas2> Jo_Jo_Monkey - It is core in the same way the A Time of War Companion is considered core, but it is not an actual part of the Total Warfare-Interstellar Ops thing.
[01:38] <Nerroth> Is there a particular era in which Alpha Strike will be set, or will it come with enough rules to allow it to cover all six currently-listed eras?
[01:39] <@Habeas2> Nerroth – Yes
[01:40] <Nerroth> So, if a new player were handed a copy of AS, along with a copy of a 3145 pdf (as and when such a file becomes available), he ir she would have all they need to get started with Quick Stike-level play in the Dark Age era?
[01:41] <Nerroth> I mean, a pdf QS set based on the units in TRO: 3145, akin to the sets already available for the likes of TRO: 3050.
[01:41] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - It is possible, yes.
While we wait for more news to surface regarding exactly what kind of material the new book will have in store, are there any particular options or ideas which you hope may be incorporated into it?
And of the little we do know about it (in the public realm, at least), is there enough to warrant your attention?
Personally, I would be interested to see if the book will only support ground-based action, or if it might also offer a means of handling WarShip combat in a more abstracted manner. But even if that wasn't to be, I think this book has the makings of what would essentially be the spiritual successor of MechWarrior: Dark Age; not in rule terms, but in the sense of allowing new players wary of diving head-on into Total Warfare a means of enjoying the setting (and, hopefully, in enough numbers to constitute a viable set of players in their own right).
I'm particularly keen on the idea that various eras would be supported right off the bat. As and when we see a PDF-based set of cards supporting TRO:3145, I like the concept of then being able to use them alongside the AS rulebook to jump right in to the Dark Age, with the minimum of fuss. (Or into any other era, with the right card sets; from the RetroTech of the Age of War through to the experimental systems of the Jihad and the Wars of Reaving.)
EDIT 2: Pre-final cover (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5056) added.
EDIT 3: Thread title adjusted to account for the new tagline, and final cover (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5128) added.
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[18:06] <@Habeas2> Pa_Weasley - You're not the only one.
I'm curious what that was in response to. Seems like a question is missing.
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I think that might have been in response to his "Sorry if that's already been asked" comment. But then, I'm prepared to be corrected on that one.
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Can't really comment on what I want from Alpha Strike as I am not clear on what it actually is.
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[18:06] <@Habeas2> Pa_Weasley - You're not the only one.
I'm curious what that was in response to. Seems like a question is missing.
Actually, that was in response to this:
[17:59] <Pa_Weasley> Hmm, any word on whether or not that core book will be IO (vol. 1 through omega) or Alpha Strike?
[18:01] <@Habeas2> Pa_Wealey - It will be Alpha Strike.
[18:04] <Pa_Weasley> Thanks. I a bit saddened by the IO news but intrigued by AS.
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I re-named the thread title, so as to avoid confusion to Alpha Strike the store (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,22316.0.html).
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Think they'll publish more battleforce stats with it? >.>
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Think they'll publish more battleforce stats with it? >.>
Like what? All you have to do is wait a little while, and eventually the MUL will have all the stats. They've already got a huge chunk up right now.
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Like what? All you have to do is wait a little while, and eventually the MUL will have all the stats. They've already got a huge chunk up right now.
Oh I thought they gave up on that when they published the quick strike unit cards. That makes me very happy. :)
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It's not there for every unit, but for the vast majority, it's at the bottom of their MUL page. O0
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"Here, here is a box. Now inside of it is something. Can you tell me how much you love the new item? Can you tell me how it will change your life? Can you tell me just how awesome it is and what the best part about it is? Can you tell me what you wish it would also do that it doesn't already do?"
So...what is this new product and why do we need it needs to be answered before anyone can say " OH I'm interested!" Unless you are just willing to buy anything that CAT puts out, which I think for most people is really more a matter of how much spending cash they have.
If I could tell you what is in the box, as in I get to select it, then I would hope for a Battletroops2. I noticed that the Battletroops PDF was no longer available. Of course it could be that I simply got things wrong the other year, but I swear it was a pdf product.
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This is not BattleTroops nor is it a box. Nor has it been officially announced, which is why you have next to no information. Only the barest of teasers to date.
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Even in the snippets above, you can tell it's a full colour hardback, probably Quick Strike related, and an ancillary addition to the core books, much like ATOW companion. That's at least some stuff to go on, and enough to get me intruiged.
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Even in the snippets above, you can tell it's a full colour hardback, probably Quick Strike related, and an ancillary addition to the core books, much like ATOW companion. That's at least some stuff to go on, and enough to get me intruiged.
And there's planned some sort of PDF support product in addition to the book itself.
so I'm excited, but I'm a little biased towards anything even Mmmmmmmmmmaybe quick-strike related :).
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This is just making me want to play Quickstrike.
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Anything with miniature rules has my attention.
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Anything with miniature rules has my attention.
I'm the exact opposite, can't stand miniatures rules and all the measuring. :P
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More things we will need to know about this before a opinion would be. Maybe it's a shorter version of the Time of War rules.
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I'm... very interested. Should it be what many of us suspect it is, I shall buy it last week. No, earlier before the rush.
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This is just making me want to play Quickstrike.
I really do need to get my forces ready Quickstrike-style.
Not only does my group enjoy playing it, but I just might be able to worm my way into a friend's youth gaming group and play it with them.
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I'm hoping for fully expanded Quick-strike rules.
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Anything with miniature rules has my attention.
Same here. One of the biggest issues in my area is people who see the map-boards and sneer at BattleTech for
being such an "old fashioned, dated game."
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I'm hoping for fully expanded Quick-strike rules.
Same here. I'm looking forward to it.
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I hope it can be used as a stand-alone rule/play book.
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Nerroth - Ty for cutting and pasting this info. For those reading this thread who didn't see the Randall Bills interview - he talks very briefly about AS at the 43 second mark:
http://itineranthobbyist.blogspot.com/2013/04/battletech-quickstrike-to-be-stand.html
Nerroth - can I copy your post for my blog? I will give you credit and link back to this posting.
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Same here. One of the biggest issues in my area is people who see the map-boards and sneer at BattleTech for
being such an "old fashioned, dated game."
actually I'm hoping for rules for both hexed and non hexed.
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I know that if hexed combat isn't fully supported, I won't be buying this. Some people can play on open terrain and are welcome to do so to their heart's content, but for me, it's hexed or nothing.
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As someone who only plays miniatures rules I'd like to know: why is hex support so important? This isn't meant to start an argument between proponents of the two systems or derail the thread but I would like to know what advantage there is to hexmaps over terrain.
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Not everyone has access to a 6x4 table or model terrain. Also, model terrain can have issues where models can get nudged (or "nudged"), and you can end up in arguments about whether a model is in cover or not,l which won't happen with a hex grid.
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Fair enough; while I've rarely if ever had issues with people cheating I know it happens and that can be frustrating. I really empathize with the space constraints as well. While I have no need for hex rules I certainly hope that those of you who want them get supported.
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but I would like to know what advantage there is to hexmaps over terrain.
As someone who enjoys playing with both:
Hexmap pro:
- It's pretty quick and easy to set up the playing area, especially if you're fairly familiar with your hexmaps.
- You're not adjusting terrain later (kind of a common problem when you use hexgrid terrain; the hill shifts a bit as minis are moved across it, and suddenly during movement you find it just a bit off.
- It has less ambiguity with regards to such things as LOS, and terrain cover/costs. Emphasis on "less", some hex maps aren't labelled that well, and LOS can still be tricky and arbitrary if the line skirts a few hexes on the border.
- There's a little less maintenance if you like using trees, and have to juggle those around when a 'Mech enters the patch.
- You don't get 'free' movement when a mini is picked up and returned for whatever reason. IE, someone wants to admire the paintjob and places it 0.25 inch too far to the left when he returns it. Suddenly LOS works differently. A more common problem with the clickdials given how often you pick those guys up.
- Now with hexpacks, you can really customize hexmap terrain (used to be a con as you couldn't)
- You can handdraw a map on the back for specific scenarios. I've done that a few times.
- Most rules are hex based, so stuff like clearing woods isn't ambiguous. Working with buildings seems very daunting in mini rules.
Hexmap cons:
- It just doesn't look as good as terrain. I'm ignoring crap quality terrain in that statement.
- It's a little harder to intuitively estimate tactics; the 3D aspect really helps.
- No hexmap based shenanigans, like the freeway that exists where maps meet (always clear level 0 terrain) or rivers that evaporate at the border.
- Much less likely to look like a coherent whole if you use an eclectic set of terrain. IE, std map, moon terrain and the canyons because you wanted some increasingly rough terrain, or the aftermath of orbital bombardment. Even just the background color mismatch is jarring.
- It gets repetitive. Some maps, you know exactly where some of the good hexes are (1205 on the standard map, what's happening today? How's the missus?), and for most kinds of play, you tend to find yourself using the same maps over and over. For some people, that's not a downside.
So, either style of play has it's place, I think. I tend to favor hex-based or hex-gridded terrain, but I think playing with full miniatures rules can be really cool also.
Paul
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Lorcan brings up the main points, but another is the scale of a mini.
With miniatures like Battletech's we've had scale creep go up and down, so a Timberwolf from an older time won't mesh with the newer resculpts. The old school Battlemasters are dwarfed by the Reseen version. So things like LOS will be argued and such which detract from the gaming experience.
I tend to use the 2" to 1 hex ratio in reverse for a lot of Quick Strike related rules for my hexed games and overall it works rather well.
Edit:
Also Paul's list is rather nice.
My group used to play with gridded terrain and that's a great compromise in my opinion. You can still enjoy the pretty things, but there's a clear cut ruling on whether you clip that wooded hex or not.
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I really see the LOS vs. scale issues, no pun intended. Heavy Gear had some issues with miniature size when I played it; leaving light hover tanks off their flight bases became a very tempting way to decrease their profile. Looking at BT minis I can see the Maelstrom as a potential problem with its fairly low profile relative to other 75 ton 'Mechs. No doubt a great many other examples exist as well.
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As someone who only plays miniatures rules I'd like to know: why is hex support so important? This isn't meant to start an argument between proponents of the two systems or derail the thread but I would like to know what advantage there is to hexmaps over terrain.
Every game I've ever played in that relies on "miniatures rules", "true LOS", or measuring invariably results in so much arguing over LOS, how far 60° is, and if the target model is just within or just over short range, that it completely kills the game for me, and tends to make winners of the people more argumentative than the others, not those with better tactics. I'd rather play a game where we can get through the firing phase without three grown men whipping out laser pointers and trying to draw a bead on one mini from just above another.
Hexes leave little ambiguity. Range 6 is 6 hexes, a turn is one hexside, and specific rules govern LOS. I don't play tabletop gamesto argue with people. I play them because I enjoy strategy. It's impossible to truly develop strategy when every move and action is so ambiguous that the commitee of all players present has to make a ruling by consensus on every...single...thing
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Every game I've ever played in that relies on "miniatures rules", "true LOS", or measuring invariably results in so much arguing over LOS, how far 60° is, and if the target model is just within or just over short range, that it completely kills the game for me, and tends to make winners of the people more argumentative than the others, not those with better tactics. I'd rather play a game where we can get through the firing phase without three grown men whipping out laser pointers and trying to draw a bead on one mini from just above another.
Hexes leave little ambiguity. Range 6 is 6 hexes, a turn is one hexside, and specific rules govern LOS. I don't play tabletop gamesto argue with people. I play them because I enjoy strategy. It's impossible to truly develop strategy when every move and action is so ambiguous that the commitee of all players present has to make a ruling by consensus on every...single...thing
I agree with absolutely everything you just wrote. MadCapellan for president 2016!!
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I hate to say this but it sounds like some folks play with some real pieces of work :-\
I guess I never realized how good I have it.
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Despite the differences either way are good choices to play this gaming universe.
Miniature gamers haven't been supported well in my opinion when you look at all the products in the line going back to the FASA days.
This product will be a nice gaming point I hope.
All I'll ever expect from it for a hex player is a chapter or section that just gives us the proper values for range and such.
I do know that this scale is perfect for my group.
It is fast, fun, and we can always go back to the Total Warfare scale if we want detail.
So now we can really hook in the older players and the newbies! *evil laughter*
I hate to say this but it sounds like some folks play with some real pieces of work :-\
I guess I never realized how good I have it.
You probably have been very blessed. :)
Though from how it sounds with your luck, I wouldn't mind trying miniature rules with your group. This coming from a flag waving hex player. O0
Either way this is a nice time for the mini gamers to get the spotlight a bit.
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Also depends on your crowd.... the guys i used to play Warmachine and 40K with do just fine with minimual arguing over distance and what not, and there's zero hex support options for either game. Sure there's a few bad apples as far as players go, but by and large my games were smooth.
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Also portability is a very nice plus to the hex maps. I tend to keep my record sheets, maps, and other needed items to game in a bag in my truck so if I get even a whiff of having a chance to play if I'm visiting friends or at the gf's for the weekend all I need to do is toss (figuratively) my case of mini's in my truck and I'm good to go for a game if the chance comes up. I was able to get a chance to play a game and introduce someone new to the game this weekend at a family gathering because of the portability of the map sheets.
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I hate to say this but it sounds like some folks play with some real pieces of work :-\
I don't know that there's anything wrong with most of the players I play with, but a lot of us do play this game with the intent to do our bests and hopefully attain victory, as opposed to just casually toss dice and blow stuff up. Unfortunately, the ambiguity of miniatures rules are such that one person's interpretation of the rules varies wildly from another's. Thus, a player may feel that another player is taking excessive liberties with the ambiguities of the rules, and endeavor to correct this behavior, which results in friction.
While this can happen in any sort of competitive game, there are so many ambiguities in miniatures rules that this social battle of wills often completely takes over the game, dragging down every movement and killing any enjoyment there was to have.
Having my map be pretty just isn't worth the hassle.
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Also depends on your crowd.... the guys i used to play Warmachine and 40K with do just fine with minimual arguing over distance and what not, and there's zero hex support options for either game. Sure there's a few bad apples as far as players go, but by and large my games were smooth.
To be fair, the less detail the games have, the less this is a problem. I've never played Warmachine, but Warhammer 40K has fewer problems with this because of fewer range-brackets, simplified rules for moving through terrain, and no additional costs for turning. Other, higher detail games such as Heavy Gear Blitz and Dystopian Wars tend to suffer from this more than others.
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Warmachine has fairly simple, but hard to misinterpret rules for cover.
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To be fair, the less detail the games have, the less this is a problem. I've never played Warmachine, but Warhammer 40K has fewer problems with this because of fewer range-brackets, simplified rules for moving through terrain, and no additional costs for turning. Other, higher detail games such as Heavy Gear Blitz and Dystopian Wars tend to suffer from this more than others.
I've never cared for the CBT miniature rules (gasp right?) as the movement charges for turning and what not can be a bit odd and problamatic. I have no problem with QS/AS and have felt the games I've played of that flowed pretty well.
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I prefer minis with terrain - cause I'm visual and the 3d is cool. But I like maps because setup is taste and easy, cheaper, and easier to distinguish terrain.
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Hexed terrain, baby... ^-^
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Hexed terrain, baby... ^-^
Absolutely ideal, in my opinion. O0
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I'll stick with a pretty tabletop ;)
Back on topic: I wonder how much, if at all, the QS rules will vary from what we see in AS.
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Absolutely ideal, in my opinion. O0
My group may have invested in enough Heroscape terrain to cover a 6x4 table
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Nerroth - can I copy your post for my blog? I will give you credit and link back to this posting.
I'm not sure if I'm the right person to be offering credit for (or asking permission from); I simply quoted what DarkISI had recorded from last month's BattleChat conversations.
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One thing I remember from MWDA games, the basic rulers that came with the game tended to stretch some with repeated use, so you use your ruler to measure out a distance of 12.25" and the other person with a well-used ruler measures out the distance as 12". Then he picks up his unit to move it and as soon as it's up you've lost it's location and it's a he said/he said. After time you get used to making your move, measuring it out and telling the other person, "I'm moving to be at 12.25" from your unit" and have them acknowledge it just to be safe.
And while most groups playing in someone's basement may be able to get along and exclude anyone who's too much trouble, for the folks playing in a store it's a lot harder to exclude folks.
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Agree with most of what Paul said. I've used miniature/terrain Quick-Strike rules because I wanted to play using the store's terrain pieces. The pieces they have for use in store at Gamer's Armory are gorgeous. We have learned to automatically check out loud to confirm most measurements.
As a ref/judge though, it gets on my nerves to have a constant steam of "this is just inside medium, right?". Movement is usually safer, unless it's a complicated move ("I can fit between these two enemy 'mechs in order to shoot this guy in the rear?"). I have come to really appreciate Quick-Strike's all purpose range bands when using terrain rather than hexes. Sweep hand across table, "anything past here is long range, any questions? No? Start firing then."
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Hexed terrain, baby... ^-^
I'd agree with that wholeheartedly (as you well know Weirdo)
I just want to see support for both hexed and non-hexed play for QS out of this book. Much rather be inclusive than exclusive...
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I'd agree with that wholeheartedly (as you well know Weirdo)
I just want to see support for both hexed and non-hexed play for QS out of this book. Much rather be inclusive than exclusive...
Agreed, but hex support for QS could probably fit as paragraph at the beginning of the book. All you need is a hex to inches ratio and an explanation of how that relates to movement costs and LOS if it's wonky (which it probably wouldn't be.
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It takes more than that. You need rules for stacking and AE blast radii and infantry transport, among others.
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It takes more than that. You need rules for stacking and AE blast radii and infantry transport, among others.
I was sure I was missing something, just not sure what. Either way, you're still looking at a short chapter. It's not like they're 'rules' so much as conversions of the mini rules.
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Perhaps. Just remember that almost everything would need such a conversion. If minis players can do something in QS/AS, hex players should be able to do it as well.
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Perhaps. Just remember that almost everything would need such a conversion. If minis players can do something in QS/AS, hex players should be able to do it as well.
Well, right, but... Movement distance, movement cost, and weapon distance should all be handled by a single ratio, right? Am I missing something?
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Those three, sure.
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Those three, sure.
But aren't stacking and AE blast radii handled the same? And wouldn't infantry transport be basically the same? I guess I'm confused because the few times I've played QS, I've played it on a hex map just using the single conversion table they give. Hence why I'm confused.
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Quick Strike is Battleforce with a few optional rules, converted to hexless play, with a few tweaks to better suit hexless play. To play QS on hexes, once again you start with BF, add in the optional rules and...done. It's not a big deal, and yes hexed rules will also be in there.
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In fact, I've had a lot of players become less problematic once using 3d terrain. And it Quickstrike, the full time DMM removes a lot of the problems of pople plotting out every possible move location--they just move their mech within the radius their mech can move, plop it down, and are happy.
Sure, here are some players out there who seem to demand a lot of review of LOs markins, but those are the type that generally make play in general always a slow mess by arguing rules, demanding to look up every reference question, wanting to recount an opponents movement every time.
Once you get a group thats had enough experience and learned to trust one another, terrain play moves just as quick or quicker for movement and LOS purposes, especially compared to complex paper maps with lots of terrain features and elevation changes.
I run QS with and without hexes. One advantage of mapsheets is that its easier to reintroduce artillery, but I'm comfortable using my homebrew coordinate system for artillery resolution for full terrain games even with full total Warfare rules. But freedom from hex facings, just turning and moving as you wish is a joy.
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In fact, I've had a lot of players become less problematic once using 3d terrain. And it Quickstrike, the full time DMM removes a lot of the problems of
*snip*
What does DMM stand for?
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What does DMM stand for?
I think it means "Defensive Movement Modifier". In quickstrike, you don't count the distance traveled to determine to modifier, it always applies.
- Shane
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What does DMM stand for?
Defensive Movement Modifier. An element always has a defensive bonus equal to whatever the modifier is for the highest movement mode your mech posesses, no matter how far you actually move.
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But aren't stacking and AE blast radii handled the same?
Physically impossible. If QS/AS has stacking rules similar to TW, then it is possible to put multiple units in the same hex, and a LOT more in Battleforce. This understandably cannot be done in minis play, so that will need to be clarified. Minis play also gives a blast radius for AE attacks, while in Battleforce it's limited to the impact hex. That will need to be clarified.And wouldn't infantry transport be basically the same?
I assume that in minis play you place disembarked infantry in base contact with the transport? In Total War or Battleforce, they(usually) are placed in the same hex. This will need to be clarified.I guess I'm confused because the few times I've played QS, I've played it on a hex map just using the single conversion table they give. Hence why I'm confused.
For basic combat, that works just fine. But there are plenty of little things here and there that will need to be covered.
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There are a number of things that do need clarification for hexed play; there are some issues with how terrain is handled where there is a conflict between QS and BF.
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Exactly. Which is why I'm looking forward to Alpha Strike with all the strength my steely abs can muster. If it truly does let you do everything in hexed play that you can do in minis play, then I will be an extremely happy Zug.
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I think it means "Defensive Movement Modifier". In quickstrike, you don't count the distance traveled to determine to modifier, it always applies.
- Shane
Defensive Movement Modifier. An element always has a defensive bonus equal to whatever the modifier is for the highest movement mode your mech posesses, no matter how far you actually move.
My thanks to you both.
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Hexed terrain, baby... ^-^
If the players won't put hexes on my terrain, then I put terrain on my hexed players.
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I really like 3d hexed terrain personally. If done right it rivals the look of 40k terrain (and beats a lot of it honestly).
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I really like 3d hexed terrain personally. If done right it rivals the look of 40k terrain (and beats a lot of it honestly).
Too bad GeoHex went out of business...
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If the players won't put hexes on my terrain, then I put terrain on my hexed players.
Sphinx is it really you, or is this the Blue Raja fork in' around again?
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Sphinx is it really you, or is this the Blue Raja fork in' around again?
uuummm nomabyes?
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Some more info on Alpha Strike from today's first BattleChat (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,28855.0.html), which I am lifting straight out of DarkISI's own post on the matter:
Alpha Strike:
[18:20] <Nerroth> Apologies if this is covered by Quick-Strike already, but will Alpha Strike include rules for operating Land Air 'Mechs? With the recently-completed Spectral LAM project in mind, it would be welcome if those new minis (to include the Mk1 LAMs covered in stretch goals) were supported in the upcoming book.)
[18:23] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Hmmm. Doesn't seem so.
[18:23] <Nerroth> In that case, is that something that could be added in a future expansion or supplemental file?
[18:24] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Yup.
[18:25] <Nerroth> Speaking of Alpha Strike, how far in scale will the actions it will cover go? For example, will WarShips be supported in the starter book; and if not, could they be added to a future expansion?
[18:29] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Looks like there's minimal WarShip support. WOuld likely be a later supplement
[18:30] <Nerroth> Will AS include rules for both hex-based and hexless play?
[18:30] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Yes
[18:34] <Nerroth> Will the first AS book include the rules needed to support the "new" units and technologies (such as Nova CEWS) from the Wars of Reaving or the upcoming TRO3145 PDFs, or would those have to wait for later expansions?
[18:37] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Later expansions
[18:40] <Nerroth> Has there been any thought put in as to what era the presentation/cover art/etc for AS will be put in? I'm thinking of how StratOps has a Jihad-era cover, and how TW is currently presented as being in the midst of that era.
[18:44] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Likely Clan Invasion
[18:45] <Nerroth> I see. When it comes to AS expansions, woudl they be pdf-based, or could there be print books which further build upon the game engine?
[18:46] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - The first batch of Alpha Strike supplements are planned for PDF-exclusive release.
[18:48] <Nerroth> In the longer run, will the existence of AS as a product line in its own right have an affect on future TROs or sourcebooks? Will any of those latter books be more likely to include the AS unit cards included within, or would they have to go into the same queue as those currently waiting to go into the MUL?
[18:51] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Yes
[18:52] <Nerroth> How far along is Alpha Strike in terms of its development process?
[18:56] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - The core rules are done and are undergoing a crash playtest to verify workability. SUpplemental rules and other writing continue as we speak. Art, fortunately, is not that big an issue.
[18:59] <Nerroth> Is there a particular design choice that is making the Clan Invasion the most likely starting point for AS? (Is it as simple as there being unit card pdfs for the 3039 and 3050 TROs, or would there not have been enough room to start in the Jihad or Dark Age at this point?)
[19:00] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Not enough hard data on Dark Age units was available when production started, and art/miniatures are not yet up to Dark Age needs. Also, the fact is that the electronic properties out there are focused on roughly the Clan era of play, so we felt it would be more recognizable to new-ish players.
[19:02] <Nerroth> That leads me to a semi-related question; is there any particular issue with using the MW:DA/AoD minis/stands with the AS rules, or would those minis have to be re-based before they were compatible?
[19:06] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Legally speaking, the click-dial base concept is a property of WizKids Games, so we try to stay clear of using Dark Age minis in our present-day artwork.
[19:07] <SpaceCowboy1701> To clarify, though, N-scale miniatures will work with the new AS rules, then?
[19:07] <Nerroth> So, the large-scale adoption of AS to the Dark Age would be dependent on IWM getting more of the 3145 units done up in mini form? (And is there any word from that quarter on that happening in the near future?)
[19:08] <@Habeas2> Nerroth - Not really, since we continue to alow proxy minis. Just don't expect a lot of mini-based art support for the Dark Age before we have enough DA-era figures to show.
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I recently noted that all the battlemech have a lot of "special abilities" space wasted with "SOA, SRCH, SEAL and ES". I would like to see them reduced to a single "BMech" sa, and then whe referring to it in the rulebook get the full description of SOA, SRCH, SEAL, ES.
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So it seems that we will might get several supplemental PDFs:
- Aerospace?
- Alternative Eras?
I would really want to get the combination of Alpha Strike and its Aerospace supplemental.
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Very interesting on the details there... can't wait to see the finished product! >:D
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Same here. One of the biggest issues in my area is people who see the map-boards and sneer at BattleTech for
being such an "old fashioned, dated game."
Let them sneer. I find that those types of people are too closed minded to appreciate the awesome simplicity of the Battletech system, and I wouldn't want to play with them anyway.
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I love QuickStrike as it really gets people into the game in another way.
Anything that does is a good thing IMHO.
And honestly, it fights in the same neighborhood as many other games like HeroScape and other similar "miniature" games with abstract stats.
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Let them sneer. I find that those types of people are too closed minded to appreciate the awesome simplicity of the Battletech system, and I wouldn't want to play with them anyway.
I like to pull them in with fulll 3d games, then let them discover the nice features of map play: portability, storage, quick set up/break down. Simple experience goes a long way towards changing attitudes.
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I like to pull them in with fulll 3d games, then let them discover the nice features of map play: portability, storage, quick set up/break down. Simple experience goes a long way towards changing attitudes.
I use a similar tactic, only I use free beer and cookies instead of 3D terrain.
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It might be worth listing the various data points (publicly) known about Alpha Strike at this point.
- It will be a full-colour supplemental rulebook, in a similar vein as A Time of War Companion (in terms of its relation to the Total Warfare through whatever Interstellar Operations will end up being axis) but as a stand-alone introduction to the Quick-Strike game engine.
- It will have support for both hex-based and hexless play.
- It will most likely be initially presented as a Clan Invasion product.
- The first batch of pdf expansions are in the works.
- Certain unit types, such as LAMs (and whatever "new" toys we may get in 3145), are not covered in the first book, but are options for later expansions.
- There is a somewhat limited WarShip presence in the core book, but they are more likely to show up in force in a later expansion.
- More in-depth support for other eras (such as the Dark Age) might also be fodder for later expansions.
- The core rules are done, and "crash" playtesting is afoot. Work on other written material for the project is in progress.
- It should be released (fingers crossed) before the end of the year.
- In the longer run, the existence of AS as "its own thing" may have an effect on future sourcebooks and TROs, in terms of how the unit cards for new toys might be presented.
Did I miss anything?
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Did I miss anything?
It radiates awesome so powerful you can read in its light from a distance quite far away.
Hmm, my objectivity meter may need adjustment.
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It radiates awesome so powerful you can read in its light from a distance quite far away.
Hmm, my objectivity meter may need adjustment.
I'm going to pen that on to a sticker and slap it on as a cover blurb when I get a copy :).
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Let them sneer. I find that those types of people are too closed minded to appreciate the awesome simplicity of the Battletech system, and I wouldn't want to play with them anyway.
Or we can utilize every tool within our disposal to corrupt people to our side show folks the awesomeness of the Battletech Universe and keep it going with fresh blood. ;)
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I use a similar tactic, only I use free beer and cookies instead of 3D terrain.
Huh. You give free beer to kids? That would get you arrested around here. ;)
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Huh. You give free beer to kids? That would get you arrested around here. ;)
I think, in his area, the luring people from their 3D terraint o 2D mapboards, like mine, is mostly going to be not-kids.
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Huh. You give free beer to kids? That would get you arrested around here. ;)
Nope.
I stick with a 18 and over crowd.
Many of the words that come out of my mouth while playing BT would also get me arrested if spoken in the presence of minors.
Best not to risk it.
O:-) ;D O0
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I was running a D&D campaign for teens at the public library, and I loved some of Paizo's adventures (this was pre-Pathfinder).
I was halfway through reading one of the read-aloud text boxes when I realized what I had just read. I looked around at the players. Then I looked around the library.
I then scanned over the rest of the box and said "yeah, let's just say its pretty gruesome and move on."
As for Alpha Strike, I've got more work to do...back to it!
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I was running a D&D campaign for teens at the public library, and I loved some of Paizo's adventures (this was pre-Pathfinder).
I was halfway through reading one of the read-aloud text boxes when I realized what I had just read. I looked around at the players. Then I looked around the library.
I then scanned over the rest of the box and said "yeah, let's just say its pretty gruesome and move on."
Let me guess... Either "Carnival of Tears", "The Demon Within" or "Hook Mountain Massacre".
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That said... ALPHA STRIKE!
Might even persuade me to finish painting the pair of Level 2s which have languished in the dark corner of my cupboard.
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I think it means "Defensive Movement Modifier". In quickstrike, you don't count the distance traveled to determine to modifier, it always applies.
- Shane
Such a change to the game, across the board, would improve the flow of a turn. A friend and I have not played a game for some time. We both have different reasons for not wanting to play, but it all comes back to time spent per turn. We used to have twice the number of players at the table, which doubled the total of forces on the board. However, we were able to finish entire games within a few hours. Often times we had plans based upon our estimation of how long the game will last, and while many games were called by one side or another, we were able to hit a point where only a bizarre chain of luck would even the odds once more.
A DMM, as you explained would significantly help balance light units against heavier forces. It would make sense that a faster unit that is not moving very far would be able to still make use of their speed by dodging about. The pilot would know if they walk in a straight line that there is little to be gained, but that it could get them removed from the fight in a blink of an eye. An assault mech could afford to walk a straight line due to it's armor value. It's low speed may also force the pilot to choose to move as efficiently as possible, in a straight line, as to avoid bleeding what little speed that their machine can provide. For a heavier mech keeping it moving may be the best defensive move possible even if it means taking a few extra hits as it may avoid being left behind and completely exposed to light units or artillery that would otherwise be given time to adjust fire.
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Such a change to the game, across the board, would improve the flow of a turn. A friend and I have not played a game for some time.
I hope you and your friend can give it a try--I think you might enjoy the QuickStrike experience.
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How do people here feel about the (likely) choice of Operation REVIVAL as the entry point to be used in the Alpha Strike rulebook?
And going forward, if we are still to go to 3250 once the ilClan sourcebook is done and dusted, might it be possible for that new era's BT and AS materials to be presented concurrently? Right now, the 3145 material for AS will have to wait until after the other TRO:3145 PDFs are done (and for AS itself to be published, of course); but by the time 3250 (potentially) rolls around, there might be more fertile grounds for a more co-ordinated set of releases.
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It would make sense to have it centered around Operation Revival, I'm sure something similar was planed earlier prior to the Clan Box being shelved.
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How do people here feel about the (likely) choice of Operation REVIVAL as the entry point to be used in the Alpha Strike rulebook?
And going forward, if we are still to go to 3250 once the ilClan sourcebook is done and dusted, might it be possible for that new era's BT and AS materials to be presented concurrently? Right now, the 3145 material for AS will have to wait until after the other TRO:3145 PDFs are done (and for AS itself to be published, of course); but by the time 3250 (potentially) rolls around, there might be more fertile grounds for a more co-ordinated set of releases.
I expect a lot of plans will depend on how well Alpha Strike does. More sales leads to more resources/priority will be assigned to it.
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I guess I'm a little confused... Do we know what the primary differences between AS and BF are?
Not necessarily in mechanical terms, but just conceptually?
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I really like the setting. 1) it exposes people to both sides of the technology. 2) It kind of hearkens back to the IS/Clan focus of Battleforce 2. 3) It tells us that CGL is committed to supporting many points of the timeline in many ways (I know they are, but it feels good to see the support in a rulebook vs. a TRO or PDF publication).
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I guess I'm a little confused... Do we know what the primary differences between AS and BF are?
Not necessarily in mechanical terms, but just conceptually?
Conceptually? BF is a strategic game where each token/counter/mini represents a lance/star/etc, and is geared more towards hex-play. Mechanically AS is similar (built on the same stats and rules base) but is meant to be a fast-paced miniatures game (each miniature represents one 'Mech/tank/etc) along the line of Warmachine, 40K, Flames of War, Dust Tactics, etc. (Note that AS can be played as a hexmap-based boardgame by simply skipping some of the changes from BF to AS)
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Some more details just posted on the site front. Sounds pretty cool.
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Alpha Strike: The TableTop Miniatures Rulebook (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=4890)
(http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Alpha-Strike-Cover-preview2.jpg)
[Cover "in progress" by the brilliant Alex Iglesias.]
When we published Strategic Operations several years ago, a lot of people instantly fell in love with what is really a pretty small part of the book…the Quick-Strike Rules. And we immediately began getting questions of “when will you release a stand-alone rulebook of that?”
For those wondering what Quick-Strike is, the easiest answer is that it is the truest form yet published for being able to play BattleTech in a true “tabletop miniatures” style and speed, while still feeling like your playing BattleTech.
At the start of the year I had been thinking heavily about this, especially after years, at this point, of seeing plenty of people playing BattleTech in this manner at conventions. I then pitched the concept to Herb of a complete, stand-alone rulebook that would be the “table-top miniatures game” play of BattleTech. As it happened, great minds think alike and Herb had already been working an an epub release. I felt we shouldn’t only go half way on that and instead should embrace a full print book, full-color, hardback…the works (I know…shocking I wanted the kitchen sink in there…).
With that we got to work. The original outline, unfortunately, even for us, was way, way too much data as we wanted to cover every Era and even provide samples armies for all such Eras…the book might have been one of the biggest we’ve ever published…not to mention being crazy intimidating for other tabletop miniatures players that might want to give this a try.
So we immediately started trimming back, while still ensuring the book will provide a complete, full BattleTech experience that would have players coming back for more. This also allows for the creation of a series of great epubs to build upon the solid framework of Alpha Strike.
But wait…if they were called Quick-Srike why are we calling this Alpha Strike?! Well, to be honest, in hindsight the former is just too close to “Quick-Start” and we’ve gotten a fair bit of confusion along the way…hence a more unique name this time around.
We’re currently on track to have this at Gen Con with the book available to the public in September…or at least that’s the current plans…will see if it survives drop insertion….
In the meantime, this is the first of several blogs where I’ll discuss this great project…the drive flare of an incoming DropShip, announcing its coming…we’ll start getting into the bowels of what the ship carries in the coming weeks and months.
See ya there…
Randall
That WIP cover art looks great so far. I do hope that Alex's take on the Savage Wolf (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/Wallpapers/CAT35223_ER3145_Wallpaper_1920x1080.jpg) ends up on the cover of whichever AS expansion takes us forward into the Dark Age!
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Pure Awesomeness! Been running a Quick Strike Tukayyid campaign and this weekend running a Quick Strike game at a convention.
I'll be sure to mention to the players to be on the look out for the new Alpha Strike book coming in the Fall.
In the point and click instant gratification world we live in, I have a feeling the Alpha Strike book may be one of BT's best sellers.
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Looks pretty awesome.
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Conceptually? BF is a strategic game where each token/counter/mini represents a lance/star/etc, and is geared more towards hex-play. Mechanically AS is similar (built on the same stats and rules base) but is meant to be a fast-paced miniatures game (each miniature represents one 'Mech/tank/etc) along the line of Warmachine, 40K, Flames of War, Dust Tactics, etc. (Note that AS can be played as a hexmap-based boardgame by simply skipping some of the changes from BF to AS)
Cool. That and the blog post helps.
I don't think I like hexless play as much, at least not for Btech. I play infinity and while some "discussions" about Los have come up infinity's unique rules prevent it from being as painful. Btech, Los can be a big deal. But it'd be nice to see more streamlined rules depending on the outcome of the project.
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Wow, that's a pretty cover.
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Cool. That and the blog post helps.
I don't think I like hexless play as much, at least not for Btech. I play infinity and while some "discussions" about Los have come up infinity's unique rules prevent it from being as painful. Btech, Los can be a big deal. But it'd be nice to see more streamlined rules depending on the outcome of the project.
It has been noted in the latest BattleChat that AS will support both hexed and hexless play; so if one doesn't work for you, feel free to switch to the other with the same rulebook.
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Cool. That and the blog post helps.
I don't think I like hexless play as much, at least not for Btech. I play infinity and while some "discussions" about Los have come up infinity's unique rules prevent it from being as painful. Btech, Los can be a big deal. But it'd be nice to see more streamlined rules depending on the outcome of the project.
Good news - Previous announcements have stated that Alpha-Strike will support play on hexmaps
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This is the most excited I've been for a Bt product since Era Report: 3145.
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Of course, now when I see a thread about a player asking how to speed up his or her game, or how to get back into the game from a long absence, or what to go for if trying out the universe for the first time, I'll have to resist diving in with "have you considered taking a look at Alpha Strike?" every time...
But then, I imagine that getting the word out about AS might be a challenge. There may be some players out there who might find what this wook will have to offer to be of interest, but who may not be exposed to it.
(It will be interesting to see how much attention is generated by AS, compared to, say, how games like Federation Commander and A Call to Arms: Star Fleet are picked up on relative to Star Fleet Battles. Hopefully this game will secure a large enough circle on the Venn diagram of players involved in the broader BT setting to thrive on its own merits.)
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Eh, I've been doing that for years with Quickstrike :D
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That is a great photo of the Timber Wolf, still the long face of Battletech!
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It has been noted in the latest BattleChat that AS will support both hexed and hexless play; so if one doesn't work for you, feel free to switch to the other with the same rulebook.
Right; I can get with either type of game, it'll just be nice to have both options available and fully fleshed out, right out of the "box."
BT has, IMO, needed a coherent, solid hexless ruleset to stay competitive, and this is just the ticket. (Fills glass halfway) Maybe this is what it takes to get a bulk of new players into the game, and CGL has shown they can work things in tandem.
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I've already begun pushing it on my gaming club!
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Looking at that cover image for the second time (I have the blog's RSS feed plugged into my e-mail client) I have to wonder if there's a hidden Continuity Nod in it that laser firing from the torso looks a bit small to be a MPL but could well be the ERSL the Timber Wolf Prime had back in TRO:3050 Original
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Looks like it's a D varient Timber Wolf, though that would cause a few problems with the torso mounted laser...
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I am excited about this book
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Well looks like a few gamers in my group are picking this up.
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I've dream about it! [drool]
Thank you guys! I hope this will give new interest and we could see more cool work for AS!
I can't wait! O0
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Looks like it's a D varient Timber Wolf, though that would cause a few problems with the torso mounted laser...
The ER Small isn't mounted in the left torso? (Away from SSW at the moment. Blast!)
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The ER Small isn't mounted in the left torso? (Away from SSW at the moment. Blast!)
Oops, your right. ER Small in a torso. Havn't used that one in while lol.
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Tabletop gaming news just posted a brief article...helping spread the Alpha Strike announcement.
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2013/05/03/73076/ (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2013/05/03/73076/)
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this looks like a lot of fun, it should definately help me set up and run some BT games in the future (my biggest hurdle has been the fact the game seems complex to new players, even at introtech levels. all those modifiers and charts can be very intimidating)
and i'm glad it will cover hexed play.. i have a nice supply of the old battlehex 3D terrain, which gives most of the visual perks of 3D while allowing direct use of hexed rules. with hex based play an option, i won't have to make new terrain from scratch.
hopefully expansions to other time periods will come out quickly after the initial book, AS looks like it might be an ideal vector for indulging my love of land Air Mechs (which from the rules in IO look to be rather more complex than before at normal BT scale), and certainly will be a fun way to play around with combined arms and large engagements..
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I like it. I liked it when I heard they might be developing QS further into a stand alone product and well, I still like it.
I also happen to think this might be the best thing to happen to Battletech (in regards to bringing it to a new audience or re-engaging older fans) and thus I'm really hoping the rules are not just good, but great. Frankly, while I do enjoy occasional Battletech via MegaMek, I do consider it pretty much unplayable in its full form on the tabletop. That's not a slight on the game per se (hey, I do like it), but it is not what me and my buddies are really looking for. I thought Quick-Strike was very decent, but it still felt too much like just a simplified ruleset without too much to speak for itself. Now Alpha Strike... well, I certainly have my hopes up!
The game will no doubt be measured against such things as Heavy Gear Blitz and the new Robotech miniatures game which is coming.
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I am looking forward to Alpha Strike. Should be interesting and col to use the system :) .
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I ran a Quick Strike game at a Convention this past weekend.
9 players, 4 mech / grinder / free for all (36 mechs in all - no more than 9 on the field at once)...in Steiner coliseum with moving walls. Played it though in 4 hours. None of them had played Quick Strike before, only 2 had played Battletech before. All were asking for the rules, and I showed them the Strategic Ops book, and told them about the coming Alpha Strike book this Fall.
Had two other Convention organizers come up to me asking If I would run the game at their con, not to mention the 3 vendors asking how the heck I could run B-Tech that fast at a convention. Told them of the coming Alpha Strike Book. Alpha Strike will be a game changer that is for sure.
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O0
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Awesome! This sounds like pretty much the way I want to play Battletech games. I'm more of a miniatures gamers than I ever was a grid/hexmap wargamer, so it's up my alley, but I'm glad that hex fans can get what they like too.
Now here's my question - will there be some sort of BV or other points-style mechanism? And/or will there be any sort of army list style options? I know there's RATs and the like, but the minis wargamer in me likes things simple and elegant. Either way I'm happy, but I'd really like there to be some sort of balancing mechanism that doesn't rely on intimate player knowledge of the multitudes of unit options available, because it's sort of hard to set up a pickup game down at the store without a generic points-type system.
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Well from the MUL and some of the Quick Strike cards available, it seems that units do have a value assigned to them in the corner.
My group tends to make a set value limit of 100 or so, I'm probably off with that, but it equated to our normal BV limits quite well when we want to play out Total Warfare style.
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The extant point values are (for now at least) based off of the unit's BV. ( BV /100 and round normally, IIRC). Whether that will be retained is not known but I bet it will be.
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Perhaps Alpha-Strike will see the introduction of BV3.0? or at least BV2.5?
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The Edition of BV prior to the current TM errata is called 2.1 by Sarna, so this would be 2.2 or 2.3
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IIRC, Herb stated in a Battlechat that BV is (after errata) going to stay as-is for now.
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I like the BV sure it's broken but so is the points from other game systems also.
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Ok I am definitely getting this when it comes out.
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So I was re-reading the section on Quick-Strike in StratOps and I am very inclined to try it out soon.
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I'm very interested into this system too. Concerning unit cards, will they be available (spare card board ?) with the rulebook ? How will it be organized, because of all the TRO available ?
Is alpha strike ruleset only for mechs, or also for infantry, tanks and aircrafts ?
thanks
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Is alpha strike ruleset only for mechs, or also for infantry, tanks and aircrafts ?
thanks
Infantry, Battle Armor, Combat Vehicles, Support Vehicles, Aerospace Fighters and Conventional Aircraft are all present.
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thanks for the answer O0
I made my own research, and I'm more confused now. I saw that alpha strike rules are based on quick strike rules, available in corebook strategic operations.
THis book also contains Battleforce ruleset, wich seems to share the same objectives (making battletech easier and faster, but keeping the flavour). I'm a bit lost. What are the diferences between battleforce and alpha strike ?
Are these rulesets playable on hex grid, or are they dedicated to measurement rulers ?
thanks
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BattleForce simplified stats, but also changed the scale. Unit Size from one mini is one BattleMech to one mini is a lance. Time changed from 1 round is 10 seconds to one round is 30 seconds. And range went from one hex is 30 meters to one hex is 90 meters. Long range weapons can now reach only about 8 hexes. But movement stayed the same because movement now had more time.
Alpha Strike leaves ranges as in Total Warfare, and unit sizes as single Battlemechs, but uses the simplified stats.
Alpha Strike does also change the default to hex less, but there will be hexes conversion rules. Most of which anybody that has played TW would be filial with (heights and LOS).
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Thanks,
If I understand correctly, Battleforce is dedicated to large scale battles, and alpha strike is dedicated to classic battletech battles but "light" concerning rules ?
I plan to play infantery, tanks, aircrafts + mechs, if possible in less 2 hours games. Do you think battleforce of alpha strike will be the best ruleset ?
I'd like to play on hexes (see my work in progress heroscape customizing...I didn't made all this work to play with rulers ! lol), the hexes conversions rules will be included in alpha strike rulebook ?
thank you for your help.
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QS/BF/AS are more crunch/record keeping light then rules, units structure and armor is condensed to two numbers that are low (Divide armor by 30 for instance) and unless a unit has weapons that make use of special ammo (AC's, LRMs, SRMs) it will only have a single attack that's basically all it's weapons added up, take a look at the MUL for examples of stat blocks, they can probably fit on business cards
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Thanks,
If I understand correctly, Battleforce is dedicated to large scale battles, and alpha strike is dedicated to classic battletech battles but "light" concerning rules ?
I plan to play infantery, tanks, aircrafts + mechs, if possible in less 2 hours games. Do you think battleforce of alpha strike will be the best ruleset ?
I'd like to play on hexes (see my work in progress heroscape customizing...I didn't made all this work to play with rulers ! lol), the hexes conversions rules will be included in alpha strike rulebook ?
thank you for your help.
QS/AS allows you to play company on company battles in about two hours or less (I played a bat tallion on battalion game to near completion in four hours a couple years ago.) The idea behind the system is you are still playing battletech, but with simplified, streamlined rules that speed the game up. While not all 'Mechs port over from the "normal" system, you still get the feel of battletech in a more compact package that allows you to field more than a lance. I really enjoy the game and look forward to the expanded standalone book!
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SOunds very interesting O0
Even if I still don't get the diference between battleforce and Alpha strike in termes of gaming. I understand the theorical/abstract diference (timeline, one mech for a lance, etc...) but in terms of gameplay ?
I think I'll make a try with quickstart battleforce rules, waiting for alpha strike release...IF alpha strike will contain rules for hex maps. If not, I believe battleforce will be more compatible with my needs...Perhaps :))
Still a lot confused. Even if I bought introductory boxset, total warfare and tro3039, I'm very far from being a battletech specialist, everything sounds complex :-[
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Even if I still don't get the diference between battleforce and Alpha strike in termes of gaming. I understand the theorical/abstract diference (timeline, one mech for a lance, etc...) but in terms of gameplay ?
Same rules for the most part. The only major differences are that Battleforce groups everything into Lances and whatnot, so the smallest thing you'll deal with is a 'squad' of 'mechs grouped into one 'object'. Alpha Strike keeps 'mechs individual. Beyond that and some range differences, they essentially work the same.
IF alpha strike will contain rules for hex maps.
We've been told flat-out that Alpha Strike will have full hex rules. O0
Still a lot confused. Even if I bought introductory boxset, total warfare and tro3039, I'm very far from being a battletech specialist, everything sounds complex :-[
Have no fear, that's what these forums are for! Feel free to ask any questions you want! O0
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Still a lot confused. Even if I bought introductory boxset, total warfare and tro3039, I'm very far from being a battletech specialist, everything sounds complex :-[
BattleTech is a lot like chess: 5 minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.
Easiest way to learn is to play. Failing that, asking all the veterans on these forums questions. Trust the Demo Agents on here,
as they know what they are talking about 99.9% of the time. When they don't? It is because it is something my gaming group
came across in play and it broke them ;)
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BattleTech is a lot like chess: 5 minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.
the problem is not the game itself, but to know what book is used for what and when (not even speaking of the eras and story background) ;)
Same rules for the most part. The only major differences are that Battleforce groups everything into Lances and whatnot, so the smallest thing you'll deal with is a 'squad' of 'mechs grouped into one 'object'. Alpha Strike keeps 'mechs individual. Beyond that and some range differences, they essentially work the same.
OK, so I can have a preview flavour trying the quick start rules for battleforce, that's a good thing.
Alpha Strike keeps 'mechs individual.
But, according to other posts, using alpha strike rules, I will still be able to play a complete game with infantery and all ?
We've been told flat-out that Alpha Strike will have full hex rules
That's a good thing. I didn't spent dozens of hours (not speaking of money) on my heroscape sets to finally play on a classic flocked mat ! :))
Do you think a free demo version of the rules (pdf) will be available to make my own idea ?
thank you all O0
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The BattleForce Quick-Start rules can be found here (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/BattleForce_QSR.pdf). They give a good idea of the Alpha Strike rules too.
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What will actually be covered remains to be seen (editing, page counts, etc can always cut something) but every ground unit and air unit (not space only) is likely to be covered.
Battlemechs, combat vehicles and infantry/battle armor will definitely be covered.
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thanks O0
I guess I just have to wait for the release. In the mean time, I'll try the quick start rules for battleforce.
Last questions (for now ;D), I would probably have to sell my total warfare book once I'll buy Alpha Strike, no ? There is no point keeping Total warfare if I want to play only this new kind of gameplay ?
SInce alpha strike will be a standalone game, will it be followed by specific extensions ?
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Herb has said that any expansions for Alpha Strike will be PDF releases.
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Thank you again O0
Last question (really ;D), is there a plan for solo rules in AS ? Cost nothing to ask :))
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I seriously doubt it. BattleTech's never really done solo rules in the past
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Even if I still don't get the diference between battleforce and Alpha strike in termes of gaming. I understand the theorical/abstract diference (timeline, one mech for a lance, etc...) but in terms of gameplay ?
I'm looking at it this way. I want to play a battalion-vs-battalion game. With Battleforce, I have roughly 9 units per side. With Alpha Strike, I'd have 36. With ranges cut compared to the classic game by a factor of 3, I can still do that 36-vs-36 game on 2x2 maps.
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edit : I think I understand now.
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I've updated the opening post of this thread, to make it easier to find some of the data posted deeper within the thread itself.
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I hate to ask this, as this is a heated issue for a lot games, but this is of special concern to our playgroup. Does Alpha Strike involve a scale change in miniatures?
So far I've heard a lot of comparison to the Battleforce rules, and I remember a couple years back they released a new scale of minis for that ruleset that were about half-size. This recently created a lot of local confusion, as Battletech has seen a resurgence in popularity among a couple dozen people in our area. Trying to support us, one store ordered Total Warfare but only the Battleforce packs for minis, and another store was planning to do the same until we corrected them.
I've also recently heard the notion that Alpha Strike may be the sort of rules that are included in the far-off 3250 intro box set (which I know is highly susceptible to change), so this is particularly why we were worried about a change in future miniatures. While a shift to more miniatures rules sounds great, there would be far less local adoption of it if we were discouraged from using the hundreds of 6mm figures we already have with no new same-scale models to add to the collections.
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No change in miniature scales.
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Thanks for the info! That's great to hear-- it should be much easier to get folks to try it out on our end. Looking forward to it! :D
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This release is some of the best news I've yet heard regarding the battletech universe, and could end up being a welcome mat to many in the tabletop gaming world.
The game has several things that I think will appeal to my club who mostly play indie skirmish wargames.
1) No Hexes (unless you want them). We're miniature wargamers at heart who love the spectacle of painted miniatures and terrain. This means we -like many miniature gamers I've met- have just about zero interest in hex based games.
2) Low initial buy-in. I'm sure the Alpha Strike price will be significantly more than the $10 buck PDFs we usually play out of, but compared to the price of Total Warfare and a couple of TRO's it will hopefully prove to be very appealing to our budget minded members.
3) Fast play. CBT is a great game with lots of fans, but the CBT has exactly no appeal to my clubmates. Too slow and too detailed for these guys who prefer skirmishes with 8-15 minis (or more) that resolve in an hour.
4) A use for our MW minis. We've already rebased hundreds of Mechwarrior clix miniatures onto traditional bases for games like FWC, Panzer8 and Mech Attack. Being able to bring these units back to a game gives them assigned stats and a universe that includes them can only be a good thing! We've also invested a fair bit of effort building N scale terrain for them.
Now to get back to work dropping hints and planting seeds of interest in Alpha Strike...
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4) A use for our MW minis. We've already rebased hundreds of Mechwarrior clix miniatures onto traditional bases for games like FWC, Panzer8 and Mech Attack. Being able to bring these units back to a game gives them assigned stats and a universe that includes them can only be a good thing! We've also invested a fair bit of effort building N scale terrain for them.
I'm made some advertisement on french miniature gaming forum, it's fun that I readed also the same comments there ;)
I also believe that Battletech can, this way, interest any "indie" gamer out there. Big robots battles, who can resist ? ;D
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Just played my first game of Quick Strike with a friend who usually plays other mini games like 40K really enjoyed it. I have tried to get him into BT proper and he just can't wrap his head around it the detailed style play. We had a blast. It is very quick to play. I am going to be playing more. Can't wait for Alpha Strike to come out!
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That's exactly what I love to hear. :)
I've noticed that a lot of BattleTech guys don't much care for it as much cause it isn't detailed enough.
But the people who don't play BattleTech anymore? Or the people who never have?
Them people tend to LOVE the game, which makes it a pleasure to put on the table. :)
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Might be a good thing that will attract some people who think that standard BattleTech is too complicated and/or slow for them.
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Yep. I'm very much in this camp, and AS seems to be the perfect sort of thing for what I want. Especially if units/RATs for the eras I'm interested in are made available quickly and/or cheaply.
But yes, standard BT just doesn't suit me all that much (though I'll play it if someone puts on a game - and indeed that's the way I've done it before) but AS looks right up my alley.
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I just ordered Strat OPs O0
First for Battleforce, since "mass battle" interest me, but also to have some kind of preview of Alpha Strike ruleset (wich I'll buy too ;D).
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"Congratulations. You've just taken your first step into a larger world." O0
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"Congratulations. You've just taken your first step into a larger world." O0
I hope you remembered your towel.
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I hope you remembered your towel.
"squeek squeek whistle whistle <flip> squeek."1
1. translated: Oh yes. Most definitely a present help in times of trouble.
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Got some crazy idea in my head about running a campaign for my crew using the new Alpha Strike book to fight the actual battles, combined with the old Succession Wars board game to manage / track units and campaign progress.
(http://ideologyofmadness.spookyouthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/succession-wars-board.jpg)
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Got some crazy idea in my head about running a campaign for my crew using the new Alpha Strike book to fight the actual battles, combined with the old Succession Wars board game to manage / track units and campaign progress.
(http://ideologyofmadness.spookyouthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/succession-wars-board.jpg)
I agree. And not just for the SW era..
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Should the book be ready for GenCon (or even if it isn't), will Catalyst be running an official set of demos for the game (or for its Quick-Strike predecessor) at the convention?
Personally, I think it would be great if an annex to the "Fall of Terra" event could be run in QS/AS scale; perhaps with preview Unit Cards for some of the same 3145 units that may surface in the "classic" BT-scale engagement. (Or maybe set the QS/AS battle in a separate, yet concurrent location, which may allow for some of the "older", but still viable, units on the MUL to be featured.)
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There are Quick-Strike events at both Origins and Gencon this year.
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Got some crazy idea in my head about running a campaign for my crew using the new Alpha Strike book to fight the actual battles, combined with the old Succession Wars board game to manage / track units and campaign progress.
(http://ideologyofmadness.spookyouthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/succession-wars-board.jpg)
Hah! I'm planning the same thing :)
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"Congratulations. You've just taken your first step into a larger world." O0
Wait, I thought it was "you've just taken your first step to the dark side?"
Or is that just me?
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The latest BattleBlog (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5033)features Alpha Strike's table of contents in case anyone is interested. :)
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Damn, looks like they'll have everything in there...[legal]
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Pardon my drool... [drool]
Really looking foward to rules that might let me play large battles in 2 hrs or less.
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I'm guessing the list of factions in the universe section is in line with the Clan Invasion era; ComStar and the Word of Blake are listed, but no later additions such as the Republic of the Sphere.
At least there is a Dark Age section of the A History of War section, so I suppose the Republic can get a mention there while waiting for 3145 to be properly rolled in later on.
EDIT: I'm surprised there's no inclusion of the fall of Terra to the Blakists in the list of key conflicts and campaigns. Considering what the Blakists were able to do with their control over the Sol system between 3058 and 3079, I would have thought that event to have been worth noting.
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Probably because the Fall of Terra was pretty rapid and quick by Btech standards... dunno
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Probably because the Fall of Terra was pretty rapbid and quick by Btech standards... dunno
It was the main campaign for Battleforce 2.
They got their reasons I'm sure.
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Because Focht said it wasn't important? :)
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Because Focht said it wasn't important? :)
Pfft, flesh wound.
(http://www.toymania.com/columns/spotlight/images/ssmpblackknight3.jpg)
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Well, at least it isn't alone; the Marian wars of expansion in this era haven't been noted, either.
(But then, they probably wouldn't quite rank with the fall of Terra as major events, except perhaps for those directly involved in each conquest/guerrilla campaign.)
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Did I see army lists on there? I wonder if mercs will get support? I'd be surprised if they didn't given their significance in the Clan invasion era.
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When the rest of the Inner Sphere gets the news and shrugs, its not a major conflict. Wait, how did the invasion of St. Ives get on there? :)
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When the rest of the Inner Sphere gets the news and shrugs, its not a major conflict. Wait, how did the invasion of St. Ives get on there? :)
Is this the point where ComStar and Marian fans complain about Capellan favouritism/author fiat/etc?
(This is not meant to be a serious comment, just in case anyone was wondering.)
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When the rest of the Inner Sphere gets the news and shrugs, its not a major conflict. Wait, how did the invasion of St. Ives get on there? :)
Since we're getting more information about something that wasn't covered in detail yet, I'm happy.
Actually several somethings:
The Marik-Liao Offensive
The Refusal War
The St. Ives War
The First Combine-Dominion War
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Damn, looks like they'll have everything in there...[legal]
That's Catalyst for ya: Everything and the kitchen sink, then throw in some spare pliers just in case!
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And the things we can do with those pliers... }:)
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And the things we can do with those pliers... }:)
You know you are supposed to fix things with pliers, not break them? :)
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Fixing, breaking, illegal-in-forty-states-ing...is there really that big of a difference?
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You know you are supposed to fix things with pliers, not break them? :)
Fix and break are the same things, from a certain point of view.
I don't see the faucet no longer pouring water as "broken" but rather it has now been fixed to stop that dripping.
:P
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When the rest of the Inner Sphere gets the news and shrugs, its not a major conflict. Wait, how did the invasion of St. Ives get on there? :)
Being something that was never fully covered besides the Capellan Solution Duology, held great importance to the future of teh Inner Sphere and was actually an IS-wide act of the new Star League, it is really not as unimportant as it may seem at first notice.
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Looks pretty neat, hopefully ready for Gencon,
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Being something that was never fully covered besides the Capellan Solution Duology, held great importance to the future of teh Inner Sphere and was actually an IS-wide act of the new Star League, it is really not as unimportant as it may seem at first notice.
Kurita ignored it. As did both the Lyran Commonwealth and the Federated Suns (due to Katherine), ignored by Marik (SOP). The SL was only involved because Sun-Tzu pulled its strings.
Yes it was important (you can place a lot of blame for the Fed Suns current situation on it). But collectively the IS ignored it at the time.
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i suspect that since there is a ton of history to cover, and not infinite space, they decided to focus on stuff that offered the most interesting and/or diverse scenario options.
the WOB conquering Terra, while interesting from a historical standpoint, can be blended into the narrative of the other events of that time, and aside from sheer scale, doesn't offer many options for Alpha strike players that merits more than a few lines of mention. those interested in it can always buy the scenario book for more info.
the Cappellan-St.Ives conflict though has an interesting series of conflicts, reversals, and quite a few interesting events beyond the two sides conflict.. you have the forces of other Successor States involved because of the use of Star League troops, and you have that interesting foreshadowing of the fedcom civil war when a Davion force on one of the Compact';s worlds ends up in a knockdown-dragout with a lyran force brought in to support the Cappellans. and that whole conflict has had basically no coverage aside from the two novels, so TPTB may be deciding that adding more detail in the Alpha Strike book is a good stopgap.. if there is continued interest they could always make a historical for it, but this way we get info on a little covered but very interesting time without having to risk a dedicated sourcebook.
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From the first BattleChat (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,30426.0.html) of the day:
<Nerroth>: Good afternoon, Herb. First question: has it been decided yet which fromat or theme the pdf expansions to AS will use? For example, would they be grouped according to era (Star League, Jihad/WoR, Dark Age, etc), or would the era material be more loosely spread across different and overlapping files?
<Habeas2>: Nerroth - The first set of Alpha Strike PDF-exclusive expansions will be grouped by era.
<Nerroth>: Will there be a file based on 3145 in that initial set, or will the Dark Age have to wait a while longer?
<Habeas2>: Nerroth - The Dark Age era is one of the Alpha Strike supplemental PDFs being planned, and will likely be the last one of the present batch produced.
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The pre-final cover (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5056)!
(http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/CAT356000_AlphaStrike_PrefinalCover.jpg)
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Timber Wolf on top of Wolfhound
there are rules for this? you try to prevent the enemy mech to get up using your mech?
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No, there are not. In BForce/Quick Strike, 'mechs do not fall down, and it seems safe to assume that Alpha Strike won't change that. In Total War, there is no way for two active 'mechs to occupy the same hex, so as long as the Wolfhound was alive, the Mad Cat could not step on it and thus occupy the same patch of ground. A casualty of the abstract nature of both rulesets.
But it sure looks really cool. 8)
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It is the Rule of Cool, quiaff?
Also, can anyone make out if the Spheroid 'Mechs have any particular emblems on them?
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Probably steiner as it's a wolfhound and a 5S Banshee... but you never know
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Probably steiner as it's a wolfhound and a 5S Banshee... but you never know
Perhaps from the conquest of Tamar?
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maybe.. but the Timber Wolf has never really been a Clan Jade Falcon iconic unit..
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Tamar was in the Wolf invasion corridor for REVIVAL (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Operation_REVIVAL), and that is a Clam Wolf 'Mech on the cover, so.
Between this, ER:3145, The Wars of Reaving, and the talk about Alaric and the "Fall of Terra" at GenCon, the Wolves are certainly getting plenty of attention and cover time these days...
EDIT: Also, I wonder if there will be a fiction piece in the core rulebook based on the cover art, akin to how the WoR cover was tied to the introductory fiction piece in that work?
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Tamar was in the Wolf invasion corridor for REVIVAL (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Operation_REVIVAL), and that is a Clam Wolf 'Mech on the cover, so.
according to Sarna.net, Falcons took Tamar in 3052. Wolves took it from the Falcons in 3057.
the sources listed for it are:
↑ Handbook: House Steiner, p. 61, "Lyran Commonwealth after Clan Invasion [3052] Map"
↑ Era Report: 3052, p. 23, "Inner Sphere Map [3052]"
source for the 3057 change of ownership is given as;
↑ Era Report: 3062, p. 11, "Inner Sphere Map [3057]"
the op:Revival article apparently doesn't have info from Era Report: 3052, going by the note on the top of the page. and it has the disclaimer about needing more sources.. so i'm going ot stand by the Tamar world article..
(Between this, ER:3145, The Wars of Reaving, and the talk about Alaric and the "Fall of Terra" at GenCon, the Wolves are certainly getting plenty of attention and cover time these days...)
yes they are. one reason i think they will end up as the IlClan.. i just expect plenty of twists along the way.
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No, there are not. In BForce/Quick Strike, 'mechs do not fall down, and it seems safe to assume that Alpha Strike won't change that. In Total War, there is no way for two active 'mechs to occupy the same hex, so as long as the Wolfhound was alive, the Mad Cat could not step on it and thus occupy the same patch of ground. A casualty of the abstract nature of both rulesets.
But it sure looks really cool. 8)
I was thinking in how recreate this in-game, so I guess I have to house-rule this
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according to Sarna.net, Falcons took Tamar in 3052. Wolves took it from the Falcons in 3057.
the sources listed for it are:
↑ Handbook: House Steiner, p. 61, "Lyran Commonwealth after Clan Invasion [3052] Map"
Sarna.net is full of crap. I'm looking at the map on page 61. Tamar is CLEARLY inside the Wolf OZ.
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The battle on the cover is the battle...on your table.
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according to Sarna.net, Falcons took Tamar in 3052. Wolves took it from the Falcons in 3057.
the sources listed for it are:
↑ Handbook: House Steiner, p. 61, "Lyran Commonwealth after Clan Invasion [3052] Map"
↑ Era Report: 3052, p. 23, "Inner Sphere Map [3052]"
source for the 3057 change of ownership is given as;
↑ Era Report: 3062, p. 11, "Inner Sphere Map [3057]"
According to the April 3052 map shown here (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Clanwave.gif), Tamar is shown as being well within the Wolf OZ at that time.
Unless the Falcons were permitted to bid for it anyway, despite it not being a formal part of their invasion corridor?
yes they are. one reason i think they will end up as the IlClan.. i just expect plenty of twists along the way.
It is certainly looking more likely, but I suppose we won't know for certain until the time comes.
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Cover looks nice, but I swear the perspective makes the Mad Cat look like mostly legs and barely torso.
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That Timber Wolf is defiantly Clan Wolf, there's a logo on the leg that is roughly the right color and shape for the Wolf embalm
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...in-Exile.
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I was thinking in how recreate this in-game, so I guess I have to house-rule this
Alpha Strike doesn't allow two units to be in the same space because we have too much respect for the miniatures to try to smash two of them into the same physical space. :)
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Doesn't CWiE have GREY in it's logo? All I could see was red and yellow
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Wolf and WiE have exactly identical insignias. The only real way to tell the difference between a Wolf 'Mech and a WiE 'mech is to plonk a Lyran one in front of it and see if they shoot on sight or not.
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Alpha Strike doesn't allow two units to be in the same space because we have too much respect for the miniatures to try to smash two of them into the same physical space. :)
clearly this is just an example of Scenic Basing..
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Wolf and WiE have exactly identical insignias. The only real way to tell the difference between a Wolf 'Mech and a WiE 'mech is to plonk a Lyran one in front of it and see if they shoot on sight or not.
If that is the case, where did the grey wolf's head version of the logo come from?
I had been under the impression that the gray wolf head was adopted by the Exiles, and the red wolf was retained by the Crusader Wolves instead.
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If that is the case, where did the grey wolf's head version of the logo come from?
Unclear.
I had been under the impression that the gray wolf head was adopted by the Exiles, and the red wolf was retained by the Crusader Wolves instead.
Nope, that's incorrect information that's widely considered to be true on the internet.
But both of them use the exact same color.
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If that is the case, where did the grey wolf's head version of the logo come from?
What grey wolf's head? I've never seen a canon one in my life.
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according to Sarna.net, Falcons took Tamar in 3052. Wolves took it from the Falcons in 3057.
the sources listed for it are:
↑ Handbook: House Steiner, p. 61, "Lyran Commonwealth after Clan Invasion [3052] Map"
↑ Era Report: 3052, p. 23, "Inner Sphere Map [3052]"
source for the 3057 change of ownership is given as;
↑ Era Report: 3062, p. 11, "Inner Sphere Map [3057]"
the op:Revival article apparently doesn't have info from Era Report: 3052, going by the note on the top of the page. and it has the disclaimer about needing more sources.. so i'm going ot stand by the Tamar world article..
yes they are. one reason i think they will end up as the IlClan.. i just expect plenty of twists along the way.
Whoever wrote that article at Sarna didn't bother to look at the legend of the maps. They have mistaken the "previous Lyran border (3050)" for the CJF/CW border, which is clearly marked.
Tamar fell to the Wolves during Revival. We've not retconned that event.
Øystein
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What grey wolf's head? I've never seen a canon one in my life.
It was one of the non-canon things Warner Doles had on here before it was the official BattleTech site and got carried over inadvertently, like the old Calbeck Eridani Light Horse stories that caused such trouble. The odd thing is that, as Adrian Gideon said, nobody is really sure where it came from.
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Alpha Strike doesn't allow two units to be in the same space because we have too much respect for the miniatures to try to smash two of them into the same physical space. :)
I know, I know. I never said I wanted to replicate this using AS, I was just curious if some kind of rule existed in TacOps or similar
:)
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All I know is that the MadCat is about to undergo an absolutely brutal smackdown from that Banshee. }:)
-Gunz
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All I know is that the MadCat is about to undergo an absolutely brutal smackdown from that Banshee. }:)
Who exposes their rear arc to an assault 'Mech, anyway?
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Who exposes their rear arc to an assault 'Mech, anyway?
Wolves..... apparently. Damn cocky bastards. }:)
-Gunz
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That cover looks better and better! Can't wait for this release!
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He's well in the minimum range of the PPC and AC5, out of reach of the punches, so I think he'll manage. ;)
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He's well in the minimum range of the PPC and AC5, out of reach of the punches, so I think he'll manage. ;)
Naw, thats a 5S... SRM on the right arm gives it away ;)
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Naw, thats a 5S... SRM on the right arm gives it away ;)
Yeah, I realize... Crappy joke, my intent was to suggest the TWolf thought it was a non-S Banshee. =)
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Yeah, I realize... Crappy joke, my intent was to suggest the TWolf thought it was a non-S Banshee. =)
Ahh, okay... makes sense. Laugh at the non- -S series Banshees...
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Laugh at the non- -S series Banshees...
I do, but I love using them as well, kinda like the Charger and other flawed Mechs. It's just fun when you figure out a way to make them combat relevant somehow. Sure, 'proper' 'Mechs are fun to use as well, but getting a nice set of Banshee punches in, or even a 4 or 5 hex charge, that's worth a lot too.
Anyway, major thread drift, sorry.
Alphastrike stat-wise, the 3E is actually pretty solid, IMO. You lose 2 firepower to gain 1 movement, and retain the durability, all for a 4 point difference between the 2 units. Not a bad deal really.
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So I'm curious if we are going to see much change from Quickstrike to Alpha or if is basically throwing it all into one book. It will be nice for the information to default to AS instead of Battleforce though. My biggest hope is that they some up with a SA for "Mech" instead of listing six things on every card.
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Alpha Strike doesn't allow two units to be in the same space because we have too much respect for the miniatures to try to smash two of them into the same physical space. :)
But if you're using the BattleForce-scale minis from IronWind you can actually fit two of them in a hex together.
What grey wolf's head? I've never seen a canon one in my life.
My copy is at home, at the end of the novel Endgame, doesn't it mention Phelan and Vlad both having shuttles landed at the site where Katherine is being held, with Phelan's having a grey wolf head?
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I don't think so, in fact the whole grey wolf head thing was either a fan based thought or a custom banner in one of the MW games.
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I'm looking forward to this rulebook coming out.
By the way, did CGL just leak the Timber Wolf artwork for MWO? :D It looks like that's how it would look in the game! But I can only hope...
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Probably not. It's the same artist though, so when MWO does release the Clans, we can probably expect it to look a lot like that. 8)
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Probably not. It's the same artist though, so when MWO does release the Clans, we can probably expect it to look a lot like that. 8)
I thought the art style looked a lot like the 'mech previews we've been seeing on the MWO site, but since the same artist made the Alpha Strike cover, that explains a lot! Also that Banshee and Wolfhound look awesome.
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I thought the art style looked a lot like the 'mech previews we've been seeing on the MWO site, but since the same artist made the Alpha Strike cover, that explains a lot! Also that Banshee and Wolfhound look awesome.
He does a pretty good set of Dark Age 'Mechs (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/Wallpapers/CAT35223_ER3145_Wallpaper_1920x1080.jpg), too.
(Interesting how the Timber Wolf configuration shown here seems to echo that of the Savage Wolf on the ER:3145 cover; and with both being presented in the same Clan's livery.)
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Do you think as it's the same artist than MWO we could hope MWO gamers came to AS? O:-)
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I'm starting to look forward to this I was initially resistant to something large scale but smaller than Battleforce but the more I hear the more it is growing on me.
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While most of the questions are about conversions for Jihad and DA mechs, what about the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm more of a AoW/Terran player (I have to admit that this year has been good to me.)
Visually speaking, I'd rather have a Hammerhands than a Vindiactor on the table when I'm demoing the game. v(and the Hammerhands is now on the Intro box cover)
Since AoW mechs are pretty straightforward, can we convert with some simple math?
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Check the MUL for the Hammerhands BattleForce/Alpha Strike stats.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1369/hammerhands-hmh-3d
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Ah. I erroneously assumed that AS was going to have a different set of stats than Quick-Strike/BattleForce
I was intrigued by QS, but not willing to buy a whole book for 10 pages of rules.
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I was intrigued by QS, but not willing to buy a whole book for 10 pages of rules.
it is a lot more than 10 pages. heck, the Battleeforce Quick-Start is almost 10 pages of rules
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From the Quick-Strike Intro Cards: A hybrid of classic miniatures play and the BattleForce tactical system, the Quick-Strike Rules (as presented on pp. 400-409 of Strategic Operations
And now as memory serves me, I was also intimated that I'd have to have a passing knowledge on three sets of rules, CBT for conversions (though it looks like the MUL has taken care of that over the last few years, BattleForce and Quick-Start.
So bringing one book and some printouts would be a big boon to pitching a streamlined BT to new players.
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And now as memory serves me, I was also intimated that I'd have to have a passing knowledge on three sets of rules, CBT for conversions (though it looks like the MUL has taken care of that over the last few years, BattleForce and Quick-Start.
So bringing one book and some printouts would be a big boon to pitching a streamlined BT to new players.
Exactly. Alpha Strike is being crafted so you wouldn't have to check those other rulebooks. That does bulk up the rules section quite a bit beyond 10 pages.
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He does a pretty good set of Dark Age 'Mechs (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/Wallpapers/CAT35223_ER3145_Wallpaper_1920x1080.jpg), too.
(Interesting how the Timber Wolf configuration shown here seems to echo that of the Savage Wolf on the ER:3145 cover; and with both being presented in the same Clan's livery.)
I think the Timber Wolf on the cover looks like the D configuration, with arm-mounted PPCs, and quad 6-pack streaks on the shoulders (2 rear-firing).
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Exactly. Alpha Strike is being crafted so you wouldn't have to check those other rulebooks. That does bulk up the rules section quite a bit beyond 10 pages.
To clarify, it wasn't that 10 pages of rules was too much, it was buying the thought of buying a 424 page SO book for the 10 pages of content I actually wanted.
In fact, I look forward to thicker book as compared to the rule that are out now. though I think a nice slim hardcover would say "streamline, fast play" to me.
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So for the Quick Strike aficionados out there ...
How hard would it be to add some of the "fluff" rules from the Starter Books such as pilot improvements, individual mech flaws?
I guess you could do a blanket "prototype" rule that causes a weapon or special ability misfire on a 1d6.
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Quick Strike is pretty abstract in sense of damage and range.
So any quirks or fluff rules would be rather generic.
Some of the stranger ones, like a body guard who automatically takes the shot aimed for his boss, could be used in Quick Strike/Alpha Strike.
I think it starts to fall apart when you bring in weapons the fluctuate heat or damage because of some quirky thing.
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Funny enough, the Master Unit List does list the Quick-Strike stats for some of the piloted mechs in the Starter books. This plus the Special Alliances, Enmities and Factional Special Abilities mentioned in the TOC should add a bit more flavor.
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As Matt/Jason/I sprinted last few days to get SR5 ready to launch today I watched Herb/Ray/team sprint to upload Alpha Strike to printer...
yay
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whoop!
*clickity, clickty, clickty* Refresh damn you!
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...and now we pity the site's servers, as the incessant refreshing begins, and will NEVER END...
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*constantly hitting refresh*
Okay everybody, if your refresh actions are the reason why my forum browsing is slowing down I'll be very disappointed in you. :P
*attention back to every product thread and release page available for news*
update darn it update now!
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Maybe Herb and Ray can get some sleep now.
Probably not.
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Okay everybody, if your refresh actions are the reason why my forum browsing is slowing down I'll be very disappointed in you. :P
Nah, apparently people are interested in Shadowrun 5. ;)
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Nah, apparently people are interested in Shadowrun 5. ;)
We should all look out for Alpha BattleStrikeShadowTechRun, long name but shortest game evah!
Your friend brought deckers, you have a Firestarter. One turn done and his crew is toast! 8)
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A Time Of Son of Shadow Inner Sphere Successor Warlord in Flames Operations!
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The Sixth Sphere in (magical) Flames!
I don't know if I will be able to go for the PDF release of AS any time soon, even if it goes up before the print edition is made available. But in this case, I was somewhat leaning towards waiting for the print version anyway, so.
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Not everyone has access to a 6x4 table or model terrain. Also, model terrain can have issues where models can get nudged (or "nudged"), and you can end up in arguments about whether a model is in cover or not,l which won't happen with a hex grid.
By the way, I love that BOTH Hexed or Non-Hexed are being offered. I plan to use both, depending on the players I'm hanging out with.
My overall group runs the whole gambit: From "Gentleman's Honor" games where we know that accidental nudging is going to happen, (One our favorite games has a "shimmy" rule that lets pieces squeak by each other within reason) to hexed games that save us time (no analysis paralysis from the fear that a guessed shot was the wrong call before confirmed measurements.)
Probably one of the funnier moments in our group though, was from non-hexed game. A kid new to the game store saw us play and in his excitement picked up one of my pieces from the board and exclaimed. "This is so neat, what is it!"
"It's a game, based on placement," I said. And then I smiled.
We all had a good laugh and he became a solid regular until he had to move.
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I can't wait for this to come out. Hopefully son. Would be nice if it came out with in the next two weeks :) .
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Per das twitter
Fingers crossed, first PDF previews for BattleTech: Alpha Strike & Cosmic Patrol: The Moon Must Be Ours! will post in the next 24 hours! rnb
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Fingers crossed indeed.
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*clickty, clickty, clickty*
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Is that a good sign for Gencon?
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Just saw this on Twitter
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/117207/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike-Preview-1?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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It's got the Republic of the Sphere logo on the page corners!
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And did anyone notice the date on the last page?
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And did anyone notice the date on the last page?
Of all the things to gloss over in the first pass through... Sigh.
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And did anyone notice the date on the last page?
I did now! Nice!!!!!!! Gencon here it comes.
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It's now up on the BattleShop, too, as linked to here (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5117).
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It's got the Republic of the Sphere logo on the page corners!
Well, that's not all. Check the art on the side buttons/chapter markers, and the art on the top- and bottom-left margins. Huh. Know what? I don't think that art on the left has been previewed yet...
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Well, that's not all. Check the art on the side buttons/chapter markers, and the art on the top- and bottom-left margins. Huh. Know what? I don't think that art on the left has been previewed yet...
Oh, it has (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,29667.0.html)!
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*grin* I got it confused with something else. >:D
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I'm very pleased to see AS be published in-universe from a Republic perspective. I wonder if it's produced at any military academy in particular, such as Sandhurst; akin to the use of the Nagelring and other such academies in prior BT core books?
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*grin* I got it confused with something else. >:D
*ahem* Tease! ;D
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I was surprised to see my old 6th donegal guards and some wolf in exile I did for a project that never saw the light of day. Hope my new stuff found a place :)
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*ahem* Tease! ;D
I really must be slow, as I didn't register that either.
Hmm... given the faction involved, maybe he's thinking of art for the print edition of TRO:3145?
Or maybe for something else, like Historical: Wars of the Republic Era, or Era Digest: Dark Age?
Or - deep breath - for the ilClan sourcebook itself?
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I'm very pleased to see AS be published in-universe from a Republic perspective. I wonder if it's produced at any military academy in particular, such as Sandhurst; akin to the use of the Nagelring and other such academies in prior BT core books?
Not specifically, no (and IIRC, I reserved that academy for Interstellar Operations with ComStar). Just needed a faction flava here, and now's the perfect time for it. :)
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Not specifically, no (and IIRC, I reserved that academy for Interstellar Operations with ComStar). Just needed a faction flava here, and now's the perfect time for it. :)
Fair enough. (If Sandhurst was off-limits, there are academies on Mars and Northwind that might have been options for that faction through to 3145. I'm just saying...)
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I really must be slow, as I didn't register that either.
Hmm... given the faction involved, maybe he's thinking of art for the print edition of TRO:3145?
Or maybe for something else, like Historical: Wars of the Republic Era, or Era Digest: Dark Age?
Or - deep breath - for the ilClan sourcebook itself?
All possibilites ... I know I'm chomping at the bit for the final version of any one of those. Just that he was thinking it was something other than the cover for FM: 3145.
I don't think I've ever used this many spoiler tags before.
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crap, every time I tried to download the pdf, the page keeps telling me that my chart is empty :s (from both download sites)
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Looking at the preveiw now, on page 3 what 'Mech is that in the front left of the center?
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The Archangel between the Shadow Div Zeus and Berzerker?
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That's what I think he means, the Archangel.
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The 'Mech to the left of it looks like it's a Zeus so I'd say yes that's the 'Mech I'm talking about. And that Demolisher II behind it? Despite the fact that it looks like the one in TacOps, page 107 it isn't
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I'm very much a noob to most of the this BT stuff, so most of your comments are way over my head.
However, I'm excited about this release as a nice way into the BT universe. I've just released a very boring preview of the preview copy.
http://youtu.be/m47rrfKVQa8
I have a question - does July 29th mean it will be available as hard copy at Gen-Con? Would they take pre-orders that close to Gen-con and then give them out then? Make sense?
Also, why are you all blacking out what you're typing?
And it's fun watching all of you guys excited about it.
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Looks like they'll be covering a lot of things I've had to house rule Battleforce to Quick Strike conversions for. Though it looks like they're not making any huge revisions to the core QS rules. Which I am not entirely happy about but it is going to save everyone from having to do a lot of revisions. Not to mention suffering the mental stumbles that come with learning new rules layered on top of the one's I'm already familiar with.
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I'm very much a noob to most of the this BT stuff, so most of your comments are way over my head.
However, I'm excited about this release as a nice way into the BT universe. I've just released a very boring preview of the preview copy.
http://youtu.be/m47rrfKVQa8
I have a question - does July 29th mean it will be available as hard copy at Gen-Con? Would they take pre-orders that close to Gen-con and then give them out then? Make sense?
Also, why are you all blacking out what you're typing?
And it's fun watching all of you guys excited about it.
They might have limited numbers at GenCon(might..no guarantees), but no, they usually do not have stuff available to
those who pre-order for GenCon delivery. What that July 29th date means is that you can pre-order for when the full
dead-tree shipment comes from China, and can get the PDF then. CGL normally does pre-orders about 2-3 months
before things come in, as they often use the the feedback in the Errata threads to get things cleared up before the
final print runs are moving. Though, they might have changed that practice, what with how they sent out SR5 to
coincide with cross-media tie ins, and ended up with something that is having some MAJOR errata issues...
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The Alpha Strike preview is available for download from the battleshop. Downloading now!
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Also, why are you all blacking out what you're typing?
They're called "spoiler tags," used for when people want to discuss something that might be construed as enjoyment-breaking reveals; if you click on the bars, the text is revealed. Why these folks are using them for a minor bit of art direction that'll be seen by anyone who looks at the preview, I don't know.
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The 'Mech to the left of it looks like it's a Zeus so I'd say yes that's the 'Mech I'm talking about. And that Demolisher II behind it? Despite the fact that it looks like the one in TacOps, page 107 it isn't
It might be. Captain of the Watch and I used to live a mile or so from each other so we did some joint photoshoots. Those and other images are stored for the art guy(s) to choose from and use at their discretion. Heck, those donegal guards have been in several rule books :)
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Re blackouts - makes sense, it gives people time to download it and be surprised. That's cool.
Re Gen-con availability - also makes sense. I didn't think they could have it ready so fast. I wonder if they'll be doing demos there.
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It's got the Republic of the Sphere logo on the page corners!
Yeah, but the Set-Up section and TOC still say Clan Invasion Era.
Well the PDF says it's Preview 1, we might still get a few teasers before Gen Con. They also mentioned using the Master Unit List/Quick Strike stats if you want more units before they come out with additional product.
If you need a selling point when teaching the game, Alpha-Strike might be one of the cheapest minis game you can get into. Everyone else wants to sell you a $35-$40 book and then $60 for 3-9 figs as a starting army.
For the same price, you get Alpha-Strike plus the Intro box, which sets you up for a long time. Even starship mini games don't give you that kind of value.
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If you need a selling point when teaching the game, Alpha-Strike might be one of the cheapest minis game you can get into. Everyone else wants to sell you a $35-$40 book and then $60 for 3-9 figs as a starting army.
Some games nowadays actually have free rules. If you want a pretty book you can buy it, but otherwise - just grab minis and you are good to go.
I think that a major weakness of BT right now is that different companies have rights for different stuff, so releasing, say, a box of miniatures for Alpha Strike (3050 units that are presumably in this book) will require cooperation with Iron Wind Metals. And CGL can't make it's rules free, selling only pretty hardcover editions to collectors, as they will lose their BT income greatly.
Though, Alpha Strike is pretty cheap compared to, say, 40K stuff.
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Some games nowadays actually have free rules.
True, but most of those games are small print/indie/historical games. For SF/F, the big boys all run on similar price structures, even Warmachine.
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Mantic games releases their rules free as does Corvis Belli for their infinity rules. These are two companies trying to get a foothold in the industry though. And they both have the minis to make a profit on as well. And for the mantic rules they added some things to entice you to buy the hard copy version.
Moving on - They also mentioned using the Master Unit List/Quick Strike stats if you want more units before they come out with additional product.
I was looking over my QS cards and noticed the movement factors only show one number if they can jump, for example "10J" whereas the new ones sound like they may say "10/6" the second number being their jump number. I've not notice any other differences yet.
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Some games nowadays actually have free rules.
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=27
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I was looking over my QS cards and noticed the movement factors only show one number if they can jump, for example "10J" whereas the new ones sound like they may say "10/6" the second number being their jump number. I've not notice any other differences yet.
Those are for 'mechs that cannot jump their full distance. QS ground movement distance is based on a 'mech's walking speed, and most jump-capable 'mechs mount enough jump jets to equal that. As a result, their QS ground and jump distances are the same, so only one number is needed. Some 'mechs do not mount that many jump jets(and some manage to mount even more), so their jump distance is different from their walking speed. These are the ones that end up with two numbers on the QS card.
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Thanks Weirdo.
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Yeah, but the Set-Up section and TOC still say Clan Invasion Era.
One has nothing to do with the other - like Bosch said, its just page design. There's no intrinsic connection between Steiner and 'core rules' or Kurita and 'construction'...and even if the Clans might have worked since this book samples the Clan Invasion Era - that theme was taken already by the RPG and the Companion.
Oh! and -- SpoilerSpoilerSpoiler! :D
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It may just be my printer, but I'm having a hard time getting the PDF to print.
Anyone else?
This is only 15 pages. If there's someway to make the full release more printer friendly I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you in advance for any tips on printing. I was able to get 4 pages printed and now I seem to be out of luck. Honestly, I'm not too concerned with the preview but more getting ready for the full version, which will be ordered July 29th.
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So any suggestions on how to run Demos for QS/AS?
Any suggested mechs that have BOTH good stats and an attractive fig?
Suggested number of mechs on each side?
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My group played Lance on Lance games with Quick Strike and they went through pretty quick.
As for mech suggestions I can't wave the Medium Mech flag enough here.
Some designs I thought sucked in Total Warfare scale are decent troopers in QS/AS apparently.
Though I can't comment on attractive minis because my tastes probably wouldn't match others.
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Yeah, but the Set-Up section and TOC still say Clan Invasion Era.
For the same price, you get Alpha-Strike plus the Intro box, which sets you up for a long time. Even starship mini games don't give you that kind of value.
Or if you don't have $50 for figs, they have a Battle Force scale.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=battleforce&categories_id=&ptype=&extra_value_id18=&extra_value_id19=&extra_value_id21=
When did these come out?
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I think they were released right around the release of Starter: Fist and Falcon. That was a pdf only release of the now defunct starterbooks. I think that was last year, but someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Fist and Falcon was April 2011 according to my battleshop invoice
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It might be. Captain of the Watch and I used to live a mile or so from each other so we did some joint photoshoots. Those and other images are stored for the art guy(s) to choose from and use at their discretion. Heck, those donegal guards have been in several rule books :)
Nope, the one in TacOps is white on the left and a blue and white checker board on the right, the one in this is white on the left with a blue side and sold blue on the right, anyone know which unit it belongs to?
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Lyran Guards.
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G'day,
Does anyone know if Alpha Strike will be a core "spine" book? In other words, will the spine of the Dead Tree Format Alpha Strike continue the ongoing image that has featured on the spines of "Total Warfare", "Tactical Operations", "Strategic Operations" and "A Time of War"?
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I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that there was not a bit more granularity added. I'd like to see a bit more variety in the combat. FREX if a unit has an attack value of 2 and LRM 1, I would like to see those things rolled to hit separately. As it stands now it doesn't seem like units last long enough. I know the game is supposed to be faster but I'd still like to see my Atlas last through 3 turns of direct fire if he takes 3 turns of direct fire in normal rules (completely arbitrary number I know, just throwing it out there).
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As it stands now it doesn't seem like units last long enough. I know the game is supposed to be faster but I'd still like to see my Atlas last through 3 turns of direct fire if he takes 3 turns of direct fire in normal rules (completely arbitrary number I know, just throwing it out there).
But you're missing one thing. As TW play was scaled up to BattleForce play (what Alpha Strike is based upon), there was a scaling of time as well per turn. In TW play each turn is 10 seconds, in BF each turn is 30 seconds. Now I didn't see any mention of time in the AS preview, but if it is keeping to the same kind of abstractions as BF, then those 3 turns of AS play that your Atlas lasts are the same as 9 turns of TW play, which is pretty reasonable.
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I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that there was not a bit more granularity added. I'd like to see a bit more variety in the combat. FREX if a unit has an attack value of 2 and LRM 1, I would like to see those things rolled to hit separately. As it stands now it doesn't seem like units last long enough. I know the game is supposed to be faster but I'd still like to see my Atlas last through 3 turns of direct fire if he takes 3 turns of direct fire in normal rules (completely arbitrary number I know, just throwing it out there).
This isn't the "full" alpha strike product. It only covers introductory alpha strike. The rules are really simplified. It's probable that the expanded rules you're looking for are going to be covered in later chapters of the book which haven't been released yet.
And FWIW, I think the fast gameplay (units not lasting very long) is actually a goal to bring in the WH40K/Warmachine players. If the game can be set up and played in an hour or two, that's a good thing for those players.
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No, the spine will not feature the art from the other core books.
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I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that there was not a bit more granularity added. I'd like to see a bit more variety in the combat. FREX if a unit has an attack value of 2 and LRM 1, I would like to see those things rolled to hit separately. As it stands now it doesn't seem like units last long enough. I know the game is supposed to be faster but I'd still like to see my Atlas last through 3 turns of direct fire if he takes 3 turns of direct fire in normal rules (completely arbitrary number I know, just throwing it out there).
I understand the desire for more weapons effects, but I don't think it was ever in the cards. At least not without losing the backwards compatibility with BF cards and stats.
I for one am glad they don't appear to be adding any granularity. BT players are used to 6mm scale miniatures having stats and data that rival RPG's. However, most other games with 6mm miniatures operate on a level of abstraction where each miniature or unit has one attack profile. Alpha Strike (Quick-Strike/Battleforce, etc) is much more in line with this philosophy.
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I understand the desire for more weapons effects, but I don't think it was ever in the cards. At least not without losing the backwards compatibility with BF cards and stats.
I for one am glad they don't appear to be adding any granularity. BT players are used to 6mm scale miniatures having stats and data that rival RPG's. However, most other games with 6mm miniatures operate on a level of abstraction where each miniature or unit has one attack profile. Alpha Strike (Quick-Strike/Battleforce, etc) is much more in line with this philosophy.
True. I'll fully admit that I have not played much and intend to at Gencon. My hope is that it still "feels" like Battletech.
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I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that there was not a bit more granularity added. I'd like to see a bit more variety in the combat. FREX if a unit has an attack value of 2 and LRM 1, I would like to see those things rolled to hit separately. As it stands now it doesn't seem like units last long enough. I know the game is supposed to be faster but I'd still like to see my Atlas last through 3 turns of direct fire if he takes 3 turns of direct fire in normal rules (completely arbitrary number I know, just throwing it out there).
I'd suggest you give a Standard or Advanced game a try. Based on the TOC; there is a granularity, but of a different sort.
*
Even if there isn't a difference in time scale, I've had enough Atlas die from headshot to never take any mech's life expectancy for granted. And frankly, I felt like I've wasted too much time in my games "Rolling five times for a seatbelt check." (As a friend of mine puts it.)
*Advanced Movement Modes
Climbing
Evading
Leaping
Intentional Falls from Above
Sprinting
Transporting Non-Infantry Units
Advanced Terrain
Buildings
Deep Snow
Gravel Piles
Hazardous Liquid Pools
Heavy Industrial
Ice
Jungle
Magma
Mud
Planted Fields
Rails
Rough, Ultra
Rubble, Ultra
Sand
Swamp
Tundra
Water (Expanded)
Woods (Expanded)
Bogging Down
Aerospace Units on the Ground Map
...
Artillery
....
On-Board Artillery vs. Off-Board Artillery
....
Alternate Munitions
....
Concealing Unit Composition[/size]
Etc.http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5033 (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5033)
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So any suggestions on how to run Demos for QS/AS?
Any suggested mechs that have BOTH good stats and an attractive fig?
Suggested number of mechs on each side?
Lance v Lance is probably a good way to start, even though the attraction of AS is that it can play much larger games. I'd just pick the best looking mechs from the Introductory Box and use them. Letting folks know they can get a bunch of cheap plastic mechs is a nice selling point even if it's for a different game.
I wouldn't worry too much about "good stats" as new players aren't going to have enough experience to compare the merits of various mechs.
The most important parts of a demo well painted minis and terrain, and a presenter who knows the rules and is personable. That's what draws folks in. Stats and minutiae can wait until later.
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True. I'll fully admit that I have not played much and intend to at Gencon. My hope is that it still "feels" like Battletech.
I find it plays like a midpoint between BattleTech and Warmachine, but it really keeps the BT feel. You can still overheat, there's critical hits, even the chance for a lucky headcap or ammo explosion.
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Yeah, but if they havent changed things from the StratOps version, you get wierd results like AMS heavy mechs not being able to reduce damage on a Yeoman's salvo if said Yeoman had all its LRM's equipped with ArtIV. I think they went a little bit overboard in the abstraction in trying to get all the firepower down to one line.
Personally, I would have made it four lines, one each for Ballistic, Energy, Missile, and Melee. (And leave out the ones that dont apply) Hopefully, that's an Advanced Rules option.
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Yeah, but if they havent changed things from the StratOps version, you get wierd results like AMS heavy mechs not being able to reduce damage on a Yeoman's salvo if said Yeoman had all its LRM's equipped with ArtIV. I think they went a little bit overboard in the abstraction in trying to get all the firepower down to one line.
The Yeoman would have an IF rating, and therefore AMS would affect it. (True of Strat Ops and Alpha Strike). That's why that note was put in there.
Personally, I would have made it four lines, one each for Ballistic, Energy, Missile, and Melee. (And leave out the ones that dont apply) Hopefully, that's an Advanced Rules option.
That would require a completely separate conversion, Unit card, etc.
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I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that there was not a bit more granularity added. I'd like to see a bit more variety in the combat. FREX if a unit has an attack value of 2 and LRM 1, I would like to see those things rolled to hit separately. As it stands now it doesn't seem like units last long enough. I know the game is supposed to be faster but I'd still like to see my Atlas last through 3 turns of direct fire if he takes 3 turns of direct fire in normal rules (completely arbitrary number I know, just throwing it out there).
I had a similar desire as my group's QS campaign has chugged along which is why I included the Evasion rules from Battleforce into our games. This lets a veteran or elite pilot increase their defense by up to 3 which can stack with the modifiers for partial cover and woods. So even an AS7-D atlas can managed a +8 to hit if it wishes to give up a round of shooting and you're careful with your maneuvering. Combined with the Atlas's armor and lack of XL engine (Which gives it more structure) the thing is practically a zombie.
Of course you're not shooting back but you did only stipulate you wanted to last 3 rounds.
And it seems that evading is in the table of contents for Alpha Strike so there ya go.
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The Yeoman would have an IF rating, and therefore AMS would affect it. (True of Strat Ops and Alpha Strike). That's why that note was put in there.
That would require a completely separate conversion, Unit card, etc.
Hmm. I missed that the IF entry did not state Standard LRM launchers, so yeah, an all Artemis IV equipped unit would have IF and AMS would effect it. That said, you still get the rule quirk of a Art. IV armed mech being able to indirectly fire when it cant do it in Battletech, and AMS effecting mortar rounds. My initial point would stand with a mech armed with Stream or Artemis IV SRMs too.
Yes. Yes it would. I'm not saying I'd want this to be standard for something like Battleforce, but since this is for a slightly more complex game, if you're adding up weapon damages for conversion anyways, it wouldnt be that much harder to just split it up while you're working. (You're seperating out LRM, SRM, and plain AC damage as is) If you look at the unit card in the sample, there's a big blotch of white space that you could shift the armor/structure, leaving you with a couple other lines. If you wanted to be fancy you could put an image of it on the opposide side and/or a summary of what its special abilities did.
While I'm speaking about pipe dreams, I'd want their PV to be based on the actual Alpha Strike stats as opposed to just using the BV. (If they arent doing this to begin with)
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That said, you still get the rule quirk of a Art. IV armed mech being able to indirectly fire when it cant do it in Battletech,
Where did you get THAT idea?
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Where did you get THAT idea?
Huh. I could have sworn there was a rule that Artemis IV equipped LRM's couldnt fire indirectly, but it appears I'm mistaken.
Anyways, we still have Quickstrike AMS shooting down Mortars and not being able to shoot down Streak SRMs.
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Do the new Alpha Strike rules use regular-scale minis or is there a separate line of minis for use with this game? Was trying to find the answer, but can't seem to find anything. Thanks!
Chris
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Do the new Alpha Strike rules use regular-scale minis or is there a separate line of minis for use with this game? Was trying to find the answer, but can't seem to find anything. Thanks!
Whichever one you want. I believe the intention is to use the regular minis, but there is nothing stopping you from using the smaller ones. The only issue I can think of would be issues dealing with cover and LOS if two players use different-scale miniatures. So whichever scale you choose, I'd advise you to make sure that whoever you're most likely to be playing against uses minis of the same scale.
...or have enough minis to represent both sides. Surprisingly doable if you go with the smaller stuff.
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Do the new Alpha Strike rules use regular-scale minis or is there a separate line of minis for use with this game? Was trying to find the answer, but can't seem to find anything. Thanks!
Chris
The rules assume regular-scale minis.
One thing that really matters for scale of minis is that the rules assume 1" elevation will provide partial cover (for 'mechs) or full cover (most everything else) and a 'mech can scale up to 2" at a time. This fits standard BattleTech scale minis (which are around 2" tall). If your minis are significantly different, then those two rules might not make sense.
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Huh. I could have sworn there was a rule that Artemis IV equipped LRM's couldnt fire indirectly, but it appears I'm mistaken.
Anyways, we still have Quickstrike AMS shooting down Mortars and not being able to shoot down Streak SRMs.
Yes, and if you have Artemis you can't use special munitions at all. Some things get lost in abstraction.
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Preview 2 is up (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/117352/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike-Preview-2)!
The MSRP seems to have gone down to US$39.99.
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Yeah, the ad in the back was actually old and no one caught the incorrect price. Just realized it as I was about to post the new preview.
Or...ah, we lowered the price because we're really cool! O0
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What exactly are the basic tenets of Alpha Strike? What does it do to Total Warfare rules that make it a "supplement?"
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What exactly are the basic tenets of Alpha Strike? What does it do to Total Warfare rules that make it a "supplement?"
I think the two previews answer that pretty nicely. It's a lot to sum up.
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What does it do to Total Warfare rules that make it a "supplement?"
Where was that said?
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What exactly are the basic tenets of Alpha Strike? What does it do to Total Warfare rules that make it a "supplement?"
It's essentially the Quickstrike rules from StratOps presented by themselves, and cleaned up into a complete ruleset.
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it uses battleforce type stats to make a faster playing game, more able to support larger battles with many units on a side. but unlike battleforce, it takes place at the normal 1 figure = 1 unit play scale and regular battletech map scale of 1 hex = 30 meters.
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Oh, and
Preview 2 is up (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/117352/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike-Preview-2)!
HEXES!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NZ2vANB_r80/UKueLMBeRbI/AAAAAAAAMQ0/z_Jt85RORx0/s500/Woo-ARcher.gif)
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How about that scene on page 114!
Hopefully there won't be too long to wait before the PDF supplement covering those events will be made available...
EDIT: Also, this (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5128).
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Yes, and if you have Artemis you can't use special munitions at all. Some things get lost in abstraction.
...Well, yes.
Some of us just wish it was a bit more granular so certain things like that dont get QUITE as lost in abstraction.
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So it appears the hex conversion in essence is a translation of the standard TW rules but using BF scale stat-lines.
Not bad, not bad at all.
Just pre-ordered my copy.
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...Well, yes.
Some of us just wish it was a bit more granular so certain things like that dont get QUITE as lost in abstraction.
Which kind of defeats the purpose of Alpha/Quick Strike...
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Oh, and
HEXES!
So now I'm going to download when I get home, also thank you for the new reaction pic.
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Oh, and
HEXES!
I just wish the conversion data to hexes wasn't buried so far back in the book...
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I just wish the conversion data to hexes wasn't buried so far back in the book...
Assuming you already know Total Warfare's line of sight rules, most of it is covered by the 2" = 1 hex (and 1" elevation equals 1 level of elevation). I'm not sure how often players wil actually have to reference that section during play, but it is there just in case (are the half hexes to either side of the line front the back edge of hex in firing arc or not).
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I don't mind us hex players being put back of this book. We aren't the focus in this release.
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Whichever one you want. I believe the intention is to use the regular minis, but there is nothing stopping you from using the smaller ones. The only issue I can think of would be issues dealing with cover and LOS if two players use different-scale miniatures. So whichever scale you choose, I'd advise you to make sure that whoever you're most likely to be playing against uses minis of the same scale.
...or have enough minis to represent both sides. Surprisingly doable if you go with the smaller stuff.
Or if you're using hexes, there's no need to sweat scale at all.
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A new blog update (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5132).
One part in particular stood out:
“Are you going to support Alpha Strike further?” I can hear you asking. Sure. Ideas are already being jotted down for what we could put into an “Alpha Strike Companion” for print down the line, Era Faction Army List PDFs (cause we’ve got a pile of factions and Eras), we’re even looking into what full-color Alpha Strike Unit Cards sold as decks of cards might look like…
Things are about to get very interesting!
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Artemis LRM launchers can make use of alternate munitions, Incendiary LRMs
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Artemis LRM launchers can make use of alternate munitions, Incendiary LRMs
Artemis equipped launchers can use alternate ammo in the normal game.. they just don't get the artemis bonus unless using artemis ammo.
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Artemis LRM launchers can make use of alternate munitions, Incendiary LRMs
Not in this ruleset. Check StratOps. (AS may change this when the full book comes out.)
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Artemis LRM launchers can make use of alternate munitions, Incendiary LRMs
In Total War, you are correct. This is not Total War.
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Artemis equipped launchers can use alternate ammo in the normal game.. they just don't get the artemis bonus unless using artemis ammo.
Incendiary LRMs stack with out ammo types, Artemis-Incendiary is a valid ammo type
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A new blog update (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5132).
One part in particular stood out:
Things are about to get very interesting!
That army list page that Randall showed looked sweet! I cannot wait till Monday!
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A new blog update (http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5132).
Things are about to get very interesting!
Cards would be a great idea IMHO. My FLGS is gearing up for the print release and I'm sure cards would add exposure without taking up too much shelf space.
I for one think AS could get a lot of new players interested in the BTU and cards would be a great way to show off the game and art to interested parties.
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Incendiary LRMs stack with out ammo types, Artemis-Incendiary is a valid ammo type
Read StratOps. When converted to BF/QS/AS, 'mechs with Artemis do not get the LRM or SRM abilities. Thus in those systems, they have no chance to use alternate ammo types.
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Incendiary LRMs stack with out ammo types, Artemis-Incendiary is a valid ammo type
Again, in Total Warfare rules, Artemis launchers can have special munitions. This isn't Total Warfare rules.
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I would just love decks of full-colour QS cards, especially if they were printed on something that's friendly to temporary/dry erase markers.
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I'm on the fence about this product, then again I started playing Battletech when it was called Battledoids, might give it a look over.
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Which kind of defeats the purpose of Alpha/Quick Strike...
*sigh*
Adding optional rules to Alpha Strike to add more granularity, if the players want, doesn't invalidate anything. If it still plays faster then Battletech, it doesn't defeat the purpose of Alpha Strike at all. Are you really suggesting there's no possible way to add complexity to Alpha Strike without having to shift to Battletech levels of mechanics?
I'm having a real hard time seeing why the idea is drawing so much flak and hostility, here.
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The trick is doing so without invalidating the current conversion process or redesigning the QS cards. If you can find a way to keep the cards as they currently are and add the granularity you like, feel free to suggest.
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Not sure why current conversion rules and record sheet needs to be inviolate. We have optional rules that do just that for Battletech as well as Advanced Rules Record Sheets that take a bunch of optional rules into account.
I realize this isnt likely to happen though, not unless there's a great demand for it.
I'm just entertaining the idea and getting a bit frustrated that people seem bound and determined to dogpile on the mere suggestion that maybe we could add a few things.
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At the very least, there would be a degree of variety in terms of WarShip armaments, should the
BattleFaceBattleForce space-based material make the jump from StratOps to Alpha Strike.
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I'm just entertaining the idea and getting a bit frustrated that people seem bound and determined to dogpile on the mere suggestion that maybe we could add a few things.
Because if you add "optional rules" today, in ten years they are core rules and you have something no new players want to play anymore. ::)
But this is not a real answer. :)
I think anything that doesn't slow down the game could be added. Or like a "AS Tactical Ops". But integrate rules that slowdown the game has no point here as you have to keep in mind "one mech is not as important in AS than in TW". AS games will have 10, 20 (30? :D ) mechs in a game. AS also make Aerospace unit use easy and possible. At this scale, any "granularity time" has to be multiply by 10, 20 (30?).
AS Advanced Rules keep a lot of good things from TW IMHO. They take the good choice: Minimize unit rules as much as possible to make game fast and add a lot of optional stuff (building, jungle, sand, etc...). This way if you want to play a fast game, you can get a "classic" plane terrain and go. I personally really like that, it's easy to get new players with that. Any rule that would add granularity to mechs will break this.
The point at a such scale game is far more tactics (this was the BattleForce point) than "granular".
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Not sure why current conversion rules and record sheet needs to be inviolate. We have optional rules that do just that for Battletech as well as Advanced Rules Record Sheets that take a bunch of optional rules into account.
I realize this isnt likely to happen though, not unless there's a great demand for it.
I'm just entertaining the idea and getting a bit frustrated that people seem bound and determined to dogpile on the mere suggestion that maybe we could add a few things.
The current board culture is definitely against suggestions of more complexity, or even changes that don't fix glaring problems.
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The current board culture is definitely against suggestions of more complexity, or even changes that don't fix glaring problems.
There's also some of us that want there to be a BattleTech-type game that isn't stuck in 1985 "beer and pretzels" level of detail. We already have TW for that...
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*sigh*
Adding optional rules to Alpha Strike to add more granularity, if the players want, doesn't invalidate anything. If it still plays faster then Battletech, it doesn't defeat the purpose of Alpha Strike at all. Are you really suggesting there's no possible way to add complexity to Alpha Strike without having to shift to Battletech levels of mechanics?
I'm having a real hard time seeing why the idea is drawing so much flak and hostility, here.
I never said invalidate, just defeats the purpose by adding MORE rules and stats. Watching this forum, 90% of the time the suggestions desired for near anything (TW/TO/SO) is more complexity, which translates to more time, less units, and more headaches. When your base game is one of the most complicated and detailed on the market, it becomes counterproductive. Alpha Strike is designed to be an analog to 40K/Warm-a-Hordes in my mind, and those systems tend to be an "all or nothing" damage delivery. You can also play several of those games in an evening and have them resolved from start to finish using 20-30+ miniatures. I'd love to play two company vs company games or one even larger game in the same time span.
Adding each damage type exponentially adds to the amount of rolls I'm going to make per turn which adds more time. While TW players aren't going to notice this, people getting into it or coming in from another system will. The game feels enough like BattleTech to me that I don't feel the need for super extra details.
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The current board culture is definitely against suggestions of more complexity, or even changes that don't fix glaring problems.
I disagree on that. Anytime I see someone suggest something, it's usually to add something. Suggestions to actually simplify things? Those tend to get rejected with an admonition to go play Quick Strike. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that either...
Watching this forum, 90% of the time the suggestions desired for near anything (TW/TO/SO) is more complexity
Anyways, I was actually thinking about Warmahordes. Usually only 4-5 big units on the board, but those can have 2-3 attacks each. Never mind units made up of human figs which can have 5+ attacks. If you split weapon damage up, in practice most mechs would only have 2 or so attacks, especially if you tossed in the typical 'minimum 10 damage' stipulations.
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Not sure why current conversion rules and record sheet needs to be inviolate. We have optional rules that do just that for Battletech as well as Advanced Rules Record Sheets that take a bunch of optional rules into account.
I realize this isnt likely to happen though, not unless there's a great demand for it.
I'm just entertaining the idea and getting a bit frustrated that people seem bound and determined to dogpile on the mere suggestion that maybe we could add a few things.
This guy came up with kind of a cool middle ground for Quickstrike/Total Warfare at this link:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1438.0.html
Doesn't change the cards at all but adds more detail if you want it. I will probably give it a go once I get comfortable with the regular Alpha Strike rules.
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Awesome another preview.
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If you split weapon damage up, in practice most mechs would only have 2 or so attacks, especially if you tossed in the typical 'minimum 10 damage' stipulations.
Yes, but double shots number double Combat phase time.
If you took about 10sec to deal with each shot, let's see the Combat phase time:
- 1 shot by mech (current AS rules): For 5vs5: (10x10)/60 = 1min40. So 3min20 for 10vs10 and so forth.
- 2 shots by mech ("just a little less abstraction"): For 5vs5: (10x20)/60 = 3min20, 6min40 for 10vs10 and so forth.
And, while we "just" add another shot to have "just little less abstraction", why don't have a little less abstraction on overheat? Move? Critical Hits? Critical hits are a good example: A mech with few explosive ammos have same possibilities to explode during a critical hit than a mech fulfill of explosive ammo, "This is nonsense! Let's decrease abstraction on that!".
I prefer be able to play 20vs20 with more abstract than 10vs10 with "just a little less abstraction". O0
I hope AS will not suffer of the BT syndrome over time: Billions or rules to deal with each mech's screws when all what you want is massive destruction. :)
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There's also some of us that want there to be a BattleTech-type game that isn't stuck in 1985 "beer and pretzels" level of detail. We already have TW for that...
Even in '85, BT was not "Beer and Pretzels". BT has always been rules heavy. Not to say that there weren't contemporaries that were equally or more complex (Starfleet Battles, Tractics, etc, ugh) but BT has never been a "Beer and Pretzels" game.
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Alpha Strike is designed to be an analog to 40K/Warm-a-Hordes in my mind, and those systems tend to be an "all or nothing" damage delivery....
...Adding each damage type exponentially adds to the amount of rolls I'm going to make per turn which adds more time. While TW players aren't going to notice this, people getting into it or coming in from another system will. The game feels enough like BattleTech to me that I don't feel the need for super extra details.
I agree with your perspective on not needing more details, but from what I've read in Strat Ops, This should be a faster playing game than 40k and far more streamlined. Thus far it appears to have less stats, less rules, and less special modifying rules. All a good thing in my mind.
I can't speak to Warmahordes, not having played it.
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I prefer be able to play 20vs20 with more abstract than 10vs10 with "just a little less abstraction". O0
I suppose that's where the disconnect comes from. You and others wants 20 vs 20 games. Me? I'd prefer a company vs. company game but at a fraction of the time sink of Battletech.
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Nothing wrong with pondering alternatives. I offered several myself while working on "collecting" all the Quick strike rules together.
But there's not much likely to change a couple days before its released.
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finally got the 2nd preview from drivethruRPG.. their server is apparently being swamped right now. ???
hex rules are pretty much what i expected. i like the inclusion of the alphastrike adapted warchest system, that should make it possible to take those old scenario book, like Operation: Flashpoint or the battle of Tukayyid book and run them properly in Alphastrike. (which ought to make them more useful actually.. those books tended towards larger battles, making them a bit tougher to play through in a reasonable amount of time.)
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Looking forward to this tommorow
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Not sure why current conversion rules and record sheet needs to be inviolate. We have optional rules that do just that for Battletech as well as Advanced Rules Record Sheets that take a bunch of optional rules into account.
If you want to do it for your home game, feel free. But if it's part of the official rules, then the official conversion stats have to reflect that.
There are around 4,500 canon record sheets, not counting Small Craft and larger. Are you volunteering to go through them for this?
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If you want to do it for your home game, feel free. But if it's part of the official rules, then the official conversion stats have to reflect that.
There are around 4,500 canon record sheets, not counting Small Craft and larger. Are you volunteering to go through them for this?
I might if they made the rules "official". (and gave me a copy of all the supplements for free ;)) Actually you don't need to change the old record sheets at all as what you could do, as suggested by the link I posted earlier, is just roll the attacks that are specified separately as their own roll. Meaning if you have a 2 attack and AC1 you would roll one attack for the 2 and one for the AC. Just dilutes some of the all or nothing feel. I like it but other's mileage may very. It sounds like they are chaning the cards now though so that may not be as simple this time around.
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I might if they made the rules "official". (and gave me a copy of all the supplements for free ;))
Oh God, no, it's not worth it. Trust me.
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Oh God, no, it's not worth it. Trust me.
probably not #P lol
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probably not #P lol
Yeah, thats a LOT of unit :D
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probably not #P lol
When you factor in sheets like Industrial Mechs, support vehicles, and all those you might not even think about using on the field (but someone would) it does sound like a big list.
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Actually you don't need to change the old record sheets at all as what you could do,
You do if you want to record what units have 'mech mortars, or MRMs, or Streaks, or Artemis-equipped SRMs, or....you get the idea.
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There's also some of us that want there to be a BattleTech-type game that isn't stuck in 1985 "beer and pretzels" level of detail. We already have TW for that...
I agree with that statement 100%
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The majority of decisions about what would or would not be Alpha Strike were made before the stat conversion process began. And some of those decisions led to having to redo all the stat conversions.
Ie. Alpha Strike is not what it is because we didn't want to redo stat conversions, but because that was the vision of the game.
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If you want to do it for your home game, feel free. But if it's part of the official rules, then the official conversion stats have to reflect that.
There are around 4,500 canon record sheets, not counting Small Craft and larger. Are you volunteering to go through them for this?
Optional rules would be just that. Just as past record sheets for Battletech don't have to be redone to incorporate Tac Ops and Strat Ops rules, I wouldn't expect any Alpha Strike sheets to be redone for Alpha Strike optional rules. And yes, I'd be MORE then willing to convert them for my own use, much as I was willing to create Quick Strike conversions before the official sheets came out. Additionally, I feel the accusatory tone of laziness is a bit much, don't you think?
Again, since a lot of people seem to think I want to make these official rules for everyone...No. I want OPTIONAL rules, so those of us that want a bit more granularity can use them. There's no need to circle the wagons, here.
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Optional rules would be just that. Just as past record sheets for Battletech don't have to be redone to incorporate Tac Ops and Strat Ops rules, I wouldn't expect any Alpha Strike sheets to be redone for Alpha Strike optional rules.
It's not the record sheets that would get changed. It would be the AS equivalent of the TRO stats.
And yes, I'd be MORE then willing to convert them for my own use, much as I was willing to create Quick Strike conversions before the official sheets came out. Additionally, I feel the accusatory tone of laziness is a bit much, don't you think?
That's not an accusation of laziness. That's an accusation of underestimating the scope. The Archer and the Locust each have 19 different entries....and that's just two of the designs.
Again, since a lot of people seem to think I want to make these official rules for everyone...No. I want OPTIONAL rules, so those of us that want a bit more granularity can use them. There's no need to circle the wagons, here.
Sure, but even optional rules require support.
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I plan on purchasing both the PDF and print preorder of AS. However, I'd like to print a copy of the PDF so I can demo it at my FLGS ASAP. Can I legally print the PDF for private use? Does FedEx\Kinko's normally allow such printing or do I need some form of authorization?
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With this coming out on Monday I need to snag a copy before I leave on my honeymoon cruise O:-) so I can read it. When I get back it's time to get to Demoing AS. It will be a good time.
I will print out the necessary pages to demo AS at home plus my tablet is always with me.
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With this coming out on Monday I need to snag a copy before I leave on my honeymoon cruise O:-) so I can read it. When I get back it's time to get to Demoing AS. It will be a good time.
I will print out the necessary pages to demo AS at home plus my tablet is always with me.
Sounds like a waste of a honeymoon cruise...
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I've added an official rules questions forum for Alpha Strike.
Informal discussions should still go to Ground Combat or Aerospace combat as necessary.
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Alright. Its the 29th. Where is my book?
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Alright. Its the 29th. Where is my book?
+1 Awan awan awan awan awan #arrogant >:(
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Sounds like a waste of a honeymoon cruise...
What else do you do on a honeymoon cruise?! ;)
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What else do you do on a honeymoon cruise?! ;)
Catch whatever intestinal bug happens to have been carried aboard by some "too sick to travel but came anyway because they payed for the cruise durn it" passenger.
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Yeah, the ad in the back was actually old and no one caught the incorrect price. Just realized it as I was about to post the new preview.
Or...ah, we lowered the price because we're really cool! O0
Or both!
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With this coming out on Monday I need to snag a copy before I leave on my honeymoon cruise O:-) so I can read it. When I get back it's time to get to Demoing AS. It will be a good time.
I will print out the necessary pages to demo AS at home plus my tablet is always with me.
Honeymoon cruise you say, ummh, keep the Btech away from the new wife, or the tablet may learn how to fly, then how to swim.....
Just sayin
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Or she learns to play Alpha Strike. 8)
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Alright. Its the 29th. Where is my book?
I really should have thrown a smiley on this or something to get the point across that I was joking. Also I've never quoted myself before. ;D
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+1 Awan awan awan awan awan #arrogant >:(
Same for me. :D
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Is the full pdf available today, or is it all pre-order? :P
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Typically the full PDF and the hard copy pre-order are made available at the same time. No reason to expect anything different today. [drool]
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Typically the full PDF and the hard copy pre-order are made available at the same time. No reason to expect anything different today. [drool]
Except Randall's blog said the print would be available in September ( though I suspect it will be at gencon in print form and is probably the reason we are getting the PDF first)
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Sorry, poor wording on my part. I meant that the hard copy would probably be available today for pre-order and well as the PDF for download.
In any case, time to wear out the refresh button again. ::)
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In any case, time to wear out the refresh button again.
Amen brother.
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O0 Thanks for the clarification. Really been waiting to read this book for awhile. [drool]
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Sorry, poor wording on my part. I meant that the hard copy would probably be available today for pre-order and well as the PDF for download.
In any case, time to wear out the refresh button again. ::)
Oh, right. I see what you mean now. :D
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This'll go on sale today, according to rnb's twitter: https://twitter.com/catalystgamelab
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Once the PDF goes live, how many C-Bills do you wanna bet we crash OneBookShelf and BattleShop's servers temporarily? ;D
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Once the PDF goes live, how many C-Bills do you wanna bet we crash OneBookShelf and BattleShop's servers temporarily? ;D
That would take all of us hitting buy at one of the two sites in rapid succession. An alpha strike, if you will.
*ducks to avoid the bad pun pottery*
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:D Seriously!!!! I'mma gonna buy thata book too!!!! Been waiting for the new TRO: LC [drool]
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Well, given that Shadowrun 5th Edition already set records on DriveThruRPG not so long ago, it'll be a good sign if Alpha Strike can score even a fraction of that volume's success. (I don't think that's going to be the case, however. SR5 had way too much of a head start with the "Year of Shadowrun" PR campaign, plus it was a "core book" for its entire franchise in the way that AS is not.)
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Well, given that Shadowrun 5th Edition already set records on DriveThruRPG not so long ago, it'll be a good sign if Alpha Strike can score even a fraction of that volume's success. (I don't think that's going to be the case, however. SR5 had way too much of a head start with the "Year of Shadowrun" PR campaign, plus it was a "core book" for its entire franchise in the way that AS is not.)
As long as Alpha Strike has a good showing at Gencon though, it may make some of it back
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I just saw a facebook post for the release of this book and TRO 3145
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This is my first time with CGL to preorder something. Do thu allow pre orders on both drive thru rpg and battlecorps?
I've been buying most of my stuff with dtrpg.
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This'll go on sale today, according to rnb's twitter: https://twitter.com/catalystgamelab
BattleTech TRO3145 LC all on sale today!
WHAAAATTTT?! YES!
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I just saw a facebook post for the release of this book and TRO 3145
Just the Lyran edition. (Seriously, you gave me a heart attack thinking the full TRO: 3145 was going to be out today. ;D )
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This is my first time with CGL to preorder something. Do thu allow pre orders on both drive thru rpg and battlecorps?
I've been buying most of my stuff with dtrpg.
Pre-orders only apply to physical product like books. PDFs you'd buy immediately from either source. Though if you want to have both the book and PDF at some point, getting a bundle may be good for you, as it gives you a discount over buying them separately; you then get the PDF and have to wait for the book to ship.
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getting a bundle may be good for you, as it gives you a discount over buying them separately;
(http://legeekcestchic.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/shut-up-and-take-my-money11.jpeg)
I will took the both as soon as I can. O0
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Honeymoon cruise you say, ummh, keep the Btech away from the new wife, or the tablet may learn how to fly, then how to swim.....
Just sayin
That's why the wife has a tablet with Pixar movies and people magazines. It's one of the advantages of marrying a first grade teacher ;) .
In reality we'll enjoy the cruise and no tablets will go flying. :)
Now where is my Alpha Strike book? Lol
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Lyrans just went up, so Alpha Strike can't be too far behind O0
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EDIT: What the... it was right there!
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To-daa (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/117406/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike)!
yeah, they just removed it. it was free.
I don't think CGL is that good with us :P
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What's worse, I wrote "Ta-daa" as "To-daa".
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Nerroth/archernyoron.png)
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Huzza! It's up!
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it is up again, now with the correct price
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/117408/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike
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Arf BattleCorp has not released yet. :( I am loyal to BattleCorp.
Come on BattleCorp guys!
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Now that the PDF is in my hot little electronic hands, I do have a question, one that may have been answered already -- The QS cards that were published previously, are they pretty much compatible with AS?
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Best as I can tell from my Sunday game, Quick Strike is Alpha Strike.
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YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=alpha)
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@Pat Payne: I am almost certain they are, I just don't know if you have to adapt anything
Arf BattleCorp has not released yet. :( I am loyal to BattleCorp.
Come on BattleCorp guys!
it is up :D
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Now that the PDF is in my hot little electronic hands, I do have a question, one that may have been answered already -- The QS cards that were published previously, are they pretty much compatible with AS?
Pretty much, yes, but not 100%. Some tweaks have occurred since the rules were printed in Strat Ops. Still, you can play games with them with minimal hassle. Updated cards are forthcoming.
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Woohoo O0
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Arf BattleCorp has not released yet. :( I am loyal to BattleCorp.
Come on BattleCorp guys!
It's there now. Just purchased it from BC.
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Purchased on BC too (the book was 15$ for few minutes lol). Anyway, I'm happy with AS book in my electronic hands, I will read that deeply. :)
See you guys! :D
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Got it!
Man, this work thing gets in the way of this serious stuff!
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Now that the PDF is in my hot little electronic hands, I do have a question, one that may have been answered already -- The QS cards that were published previously, are they pretty much compatible with AS?
One major change is AC, SRM and LRM (and TUR). Previously you added these to base damage. In the new stats in Alpha Strike, those values are already included in base damage. So if using the old stats, remember to add the AC, SRM and LRM values. If using the new stats, you never add them to base.
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I skipped to the universe background section, and I noted that while part of it has been updated to account for the current shift to the Dark Age, other sections still read as if the Jihad was still the "present" era.
For example, the history section goes as far as the post-blackout Dark Age, but the faction writeups seem to assume one is still in the Jihad. (For example, the Free Worlds League section does not refer to the dissolution in 3079, or the partial reformation in 3139. While the House Steiner section refers to the Lyran Alliance, not the Commonwealth as it reverted to in 3084.)
Also, on page 157, the Plot Sourcebooks section notes that the Dark Age is the curent era, but the Historical Sourcebooks section in the next paragraph refers instead to "the current Jihad".
Plus, the map seems to be set in 3067, but doesn't specify what year it's supposed to cover. (I would have hoped for either a map set in the Clan Invasion era, to support the initial setting, or a 3145 map to show the state of play as we await the ilClan sourcebook.)
It's probably too late to do anything about this for the first print run, but it might be something worth re-considering for errata purposes.
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I'm pretty happy with how my company turned out in print!!
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I'm pretty happy with how my company turned out in print!!
It's like a bonus CamoSpecs Online coffee table book.
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but it might be something worth re-considering for errata purposes.[/spoiler]
it's not errata.
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nice TRO 3145 cover you teased us, Adrian :D
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One major change is AC, SRM and LRM (and TUR). Previously you added these to base damage. In the new stats in Alpha Strike, those values are already included in base damage. So if using the old stats, remember to add the AC, SRM and LRM values. If using the new stats, you never add them to base.
Just to follow-up, I'm looking at the army list in the book -- so for instance the Dervish (p. 137) has damage of 3/3/2, but it also lists in the special section as having "LRM 1/1/1". Should I disregard that LRM entry, and just use the 3/3/2?
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Just to follow-up, I'm looking at the army list in the book -- so for instance the Dervish (p. 137) has damage of 3/3/2, but it also lists in the special section as having "LRM 1/1/1". Should I disregard that LRM entry, and just use the 3/3/2?
Unless you want to use alternate munitions, or the target has AMS. But yes, you do not add the LRM 1/1/1 to the base 3/3/2, it's already included.
If you use Swarm LRMs, then the possible second (or third) attack would only use the LRM values.
If you had 3/3/2 and SRM 2/2, and used Infernos, you'd subtract the SRM 2/2 from the base 3/3 and apply 2 HT instead.
etc.
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That's confusing. Why where the values included on the card then?
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That's confusing. Why where the values included on the card then?
Because you need them if you want to use special ammo?
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That's confusing. Why where the values included on the card then?
I just listed two examples.
Infernos: If you have SRM 1/1 and use infernos, you subtract 1 damage from base to do 1 HT. If you have 2+ SRM, you subtract the SRM value to add 2 HT.
Swarm: If you have LRM 1/2/2 and miss your original target, you can make a second attack at a nearby target, but the second attack only uses the LRM values.
Similar to Flak AC and other alternate ammo types.
AC, SRM and LRM are there for the same reason they've always been there, to use special munitions.
They were not there just to try and see who forgets to add them to base.
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So do all current unit cards need to be adjusted?
Or do we have 2 separate stat lines, one for BF and one for Alpha Strike ?
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So do all current unit cards need to be adjusted?
Or do we have 2 separate stat lines, one for BF and one for Alpha Strike ?
New stats for the MUL have been in progress for a while, and there are plans to update/new unit cards.
But the changes apply to both BattleForce and Alpha Strike. The stat card changes were actually planned from before Alpha Strike was being worked on, while we worked on redoing the stat conversions.
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New stats for the MUL have been in progress for a while, and there are plans to update/new unit cards.
But the changes apply to both BattleForce and Alpha Strike. The stat card changes were actually planned from before Alpha Strike was being worked on, while we worked on redoing the stat conversions.
Are the new cards going to be noted that they are Alpha Strike cards?
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Are the new cards going to be noted that they are Alpha Strike cards?
Yes. (Why wouldn't they be?)
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Yes. (Why wouldn't they be?)
Never know... figured I'd ask :D
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New stats for the MUL have been in progress for a while, and there are plans to update/new unit cards.
But the changes apply to both BattleForce and Alpha Strike. The stat card changes were actually planned from before Alpha Strike was being worked on, while we worked on redoing the stat conversions.
Ok, that was my main concern that we would end of with two different set of rule/conversion/stats. I am ok with an update to both systems. Keeps things simplified and interchangeable.
With these changes also effecting Battleforce as well, where will we see the official changes to that system appear?
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Ok, that was my main concern that we would end of with two different set of rule/conversion/stats. I am ok with an update to both systems. Keeps things simplified and interchangeable.
With these changes also effecting Battleforce as well, where will we see the official changes to that system appear?
Errata to SO.
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Never know... figured I'd ask :D
Cool. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't stepping in something :).
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New stats for the MUL have been in progress for a while, and there are plans to update/new unit cards.
4,500 units worth of new stats. :P
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Will the Unit Cards pdf products also be updated with the changes?
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Cool. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't stepping in something :).
Naw, just a conversation with other guys I play with and I was making sure that there would be a distinction! :)
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Will the Unit Cards pdf products also be updated with the changes?
I would presume so, but there's a lot of options being considered and I wouldn't guess when.
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New stats for the MUL have been in progress for a while, and there are plans to update/new unit cards.
But the changes apply to both BattleForce and Alpha Strike. The stat card changes were actually planned from before Alpha Strike was being worked on, while we worked on redoing the stat conversions.
How do we know which unit cards have been updated and which haven't on the MUL? or are they not going to be posted until all the changes are complete?
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How do we know which unit cards have been updated and which haven't on the MUL? or are they not going to be posted until all the changes are complete?
One big update.
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I think this book will do well and will succeed in drawing in Warhammer and Warmachine players but there seem to be some issues that will cause confusion.
Why the Republic theme? The Republic doesn't even exist until the 3080's. Perhaps a Federated Commonwealth theme would have been better.
Where are the Clan invasion era maps? The universe map shown is for the Jihad. it probably would have been better to show a 3050 map or a 3052 map of the Inner Sphere.
There are only two Clan Forces while all five Great Houses are included. It seems that the other Invading Clans should have been included.
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My guesses on some of this?
Clan Invasion is easier to cross promote with the MWO crowd. In fact Randall even did so in his latest Battleblog on the main part of this site.
Why only two Clans? Well back in the day the most visible Clans were Falcon and Wolf. Now I will grant the FedCom theme would have fit, but this might have just been a style thing anyways and has no real bearing on the rules themselves.
Throughout all these "core" books they lead up to the Jihad map-wise. So maybe they followed that for this book.
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My guesses on some of this?
Clan Invasion is easier to cross promote with the MWO crowd. In fact Randall even did so in his latest Battleblog on the main part of this site.
Why only two Clans? Well back in the day the most visible Clans were Falcon and Wolf. Now I will grant the FedCom theme would have fit, but this might have just been a style thing anyways and has no real bearing on the rules themselves.
Throughout all these "core" books they lead up to the Jihad map-wise. So maybe they followed that for this book.
All of this makes sense to me. I know in the group we had at the time Wolf was the Clan. None of the others were even considered.
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I wonder if there is a plan to offer a more expanded look at the Clan Invasion era; with faction lists for ComStar, the Word of Blake, some more Invader and Homeworld Clans, and some near and Deep Periphery factions?
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All of this makes sense to me. I know in the group we had at the time Wolf was the Clan. None of the others were even considered.
Which is a great thing to cross promote with the fact that Jade Falcon Sourcebook (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3152) and Wolf Sourcebook (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1411) are available as PDFs. Those books were practically phone books in listing Toumans. So if someone wants an Army list but don't want to wait for CGL there you go. :)
I wonder if there is a plan to offer a more expanded look at the Clan Invasion era; with faction lists for ComStar, the Word of Blake, some more Invader and Homeworld Clans, and some near and Deep Periphery factions?
I'm hoping too, my beloved Bears need a list! O0
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I'm not a 100% sure but the lists were also what could get painted. I'd have to find the draft file to see if C* or da bears had lists
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Actually, I wonder how they might present C*/WoB Level IIs, or Marian Centuries, in such a file.
I guess the Marians could have a Maniple done the same way as the Clan Binaries, but might things look a bit untidy if you tried to show a pair of Level IIs on a single page?
EDIT: Looks like all but three of the pages from the introductory AS ruleset are in the preview PDF (http://d15yciz5bluc83.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/10%20Previews/E-CAT35600%20BattleTech%20Alpha%20Strike_Preview.pdf).
I wonder if there'll be a "quick-start" file for AS posted up at some point?
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This is based on my anecdotal experience, so take it with a grain of salt. YMMV, etc.
But I think that over the years, the BT crowd has gone from a "must use every rule and tech we can" to "We'll use all that sometime ... later."
Back in the 80s and 90s, the BT guys I met in several towns never met a rule they didn't like (to use). Battle engagements were all weekend affairs with tons of mechs to a side. If you didn't run a whole lance by yourself, you were being lazy.
The cracks, though, were beginning to show when it came to mixed unit/ meta play. To this day, I have some old BT buddies that we reminisce about the "Night of the Jenners" and the "Swarm of hovercraft" where we followed the letter of the rules, not the spirit, and mowed down opponents who stuck to more all mech lance arrangement.
Fast forward to CGL's years of BT and I comeback to see a change. I'm at Hurricon http://hmgs-south.com/moreno.html (http://hmgs-south.com/moreno.html) and a great guy, forget his name, runs a hexless BT game with 14 mechs. To my surprise, almost everyone picks only one mech to play. One guy, me, picks two.
Now I see some interest in Alpha Strike and it seems that as most of our gamers get older, we want something that plays faster and lets us get more gaming in the shorter amount of free time we have left. We want more play and less "five dice rolls to make a seat belt check."
What was considered detailed rules for verisimilitude don't seem to have the same ROI for fun anymore.
So while we might like that we "have a rule for that," said rules don't really get used that much anymore.
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One thing that I think I would like to see is alternative point calculations based on the final Alpha Strike stats rather than the Total Warfare BV. I've already noticed several instances of two 'mechs being the same point value but where one has better Alpha Strike stats, or vice-versa (same stats, different point cost.)
When you're picking an army purely based on in-universe flavour it probably isn't a big deal but I could see this being a turn-off to new players. Players coming from other miniatures games may expect more precise balance, and additionally may feel like Alpha Strike is an afterthought that is secondary in Catalyst's concern to a product that they don't want to play.
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After a quick glance at the PDF...
This is a great book
I love how "hex based" gameplay is not ignored. I prefer using hexes. I just hope if you guys release unit cards you have a hex based option available.
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Just reduce the movement from inches by half and *boom* hex conversion. O0
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Quick question for those more experienced with Quick-Strike (and, by extension, Alpha Strike): Does the AMS special ability only reduce damage from an attacker that is only making use of his IF, LRM, or SRM special ability? Or does it reduce incoming damage by one as long as one of those three exists on the attacker's unit card? I ask because the wording seems quite abbreviated when compared with the rules for Reactive Armor and Reflective Armor and seems to imply that only the former is the case. Which would make AMS a fairly meh ability, from where I am sitting.
Thanks for the help! O0
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I like what they did with my Wolves! Something still thrills me about getting photos into print. :)
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I'm not experienced wildonion - what is AMS?
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AMS stands for Anti-Missile System.
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I'm not experienced wildonion - what is AMS?
Anti-Missile System.
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Question: If normal BT is beer and pretzel's, heavy on the beer, what's this?
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Pretzel nuggets with beer inside them?
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Dang - I just found it as I was going through the book and was hoping no one had checked back, so I could modify my answer. Alas, all can now see the depths of my...
Anyway, the way i read the description:
Anti-Missile System (AMS)
A unit with an AMS reduces the damage from any attack
specifically delivered by the IF, SRM, or LRM special abilities by 1 point
(to a minimum of 1) as long as the attack comes from the front.
The key line to me is, "specifically delivered", I would think the attacker has to state they are using a particular ability and not just firing using their standard attack numbers.
A quick skim through the mechs included in the book and I see just 3 that this would affect: Thug, Salamander, and Apollo. (There may be more and I'm not seeing it.) Everyone else just inflicts 1 point of damage from their SRM/LRM/ and IF...unless they're semi-guided in which case an additional point is inflicted, so you could basically counteract that affect.
All the special abilities and the affects they may have and the pros and cons of shooting them over your standard shot (if that is the choice) will make for fun discussion over on the ground combat board.
But then again, I'm the guy that didn't know what AMS was just a a little bit ago, so take anything I say and toss it out the window!
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Hmm. I thought it was said that this would come with rulea for map sheets.
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Hmm. I thought it was said that this would come with rulea for map sheets.
near the back it has rules for using Hexes instead of 3D terrain.
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Kitsune, pages 110-113.
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i find the books ot be a bit schitzophrenic about the time period depicted.. its setting info is on the clan invasion, but most of the images are from Jihad/war of reaving events or other periods dating well after the setting info presented. the army lists are labelled as "clan invasion" but about a third of each of them are mechs that didn't exist until 5-10 years after the clan invasion ended. and while the setting info provided is circa 3050ish, the map provided is circa 3075ish.
i understand that the map is just a reuse of the one from other products, and that the Jihad storyline had some awesome diorama's made which make for great images for the book, but it feels like it might be a tad confusing if your not already very familiar with Btech history.
that said, i'm glad the rules cover most of the unit types and special rules/gear from all era's of play.. though i have hopes that we'll see LAMs and some of the other era specific stuff in expansions soon.
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the army lists are labelled as "clan invasion" but about a third of each of them are mechs that didn't exist until 5-10 years after the clan invasion ended.
The Clan Invasion Era as it relates to the BattleTech Product Line covers the time period from 3049 to 3062 - the first appearance of the Clans to the beginning of the FedCom Civil War. Thusly, units from TROs 3050, 3055, and 3058 (and technically some stuff from elsewhere) all qualify as being part of the Clan Invasion Era. The Apollo in the DCMS Army List is legit, for example.
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The Clan Invasion Era as it relates to the BattleTech Product Line covers the time period from 3049 to 3062 - the first appearance of the Clans to the beginning of the FedCom Civil War. Thusly, units from TROs 3050, 3055, and 3058 (and technically some stuff from elsewhere) all qualify as being part of the Clan Invasion Era. The Apollo in the DCMS Army List is legit, for example.
It might be a good idea to note that in the book, some people tend to get confused over eras
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just saying it appears confusing. if it had used "era" on the army list, instead of the specific event name, it would be less so.
"the clan invasion" is a specific event in the fluff material presented. (pg 126.. ironically under an image of a WiE force ???)
frankly, i'd have labelled the whole era with a seperate name in the first place, even in the MUL, instead of just using a conflict occurring in the first 3 years of the 12 year stretch being presented.
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i find the books ot be a bit schitzophrenic about the time period depicted.. its setting info is on the clan invasion, but most of the images are from Jihad/war of reaving events or other periods dating well after the setting info presented. the army lists are labelled as "clan invasion" but about a third of each of them are mechs that didn't exist until 5-10 years after the clan invasion ended. and while the setting info provided is circa 3050ish, the map provided is circa 3075ish.
i understand that the map is just a reuse of the one from other products, and that the Jihad storyline had some awesome diorama's made which make for great images for the book, but it feels like it might be a tad confusing if your not already very familiar with Btech history.
that said, i'm glad the rules cover most of the unit types and special rules/gear from all era's of play.. though i have hopes that we'll see LAMs and some of the other era specific stuff in expansions soon.
I played thru the clan invasion as it was released in the late 80's early 90's. Most of the pics from that time releaed by FASA where artwork so no photos. My guess would be that CGL used what photos they had and they had the whole "unseen " issue.
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just saying it appears confusing. if it had used "era" on the army list, instead of the specific event name, it would be less so.
"the clan invasion" is a specific event in the fluff material presented. (pg 126.. ironically under an image of a WiE force ???)
frankly, i'd have labelled the whole era with a seperate name in the first place, even in the MUL, instead of just using a conflict occurring in the first 3 years of the 12 year stretch being presented.
It's probably not going to be a huge issue for the new players, who don't realize that something may be off. Once they get more familiar, they'll see the issue and (hopefully) check in with more experienced players to find out what's up.
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Just want to go on the record with my desire for AS unit cards in ANY format--print, PDF, whatever. If Catalyst makes them, I will buy them. And if they do try some actual print cards, color even, I will be one happy gamer!
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Anyway, the way i read the description:
The key line to me is, "specifically delivered", I would think the attacker has to state they are using a particular ability and not just firing using their standard attack numbers.
Perhaps somebody would like to ask in the fancy new Rules forum for Alpha Strike?
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/board,100.0.html
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Just want to go on the record with my desire for AS unit cards in ANY format--print, PDF, whatever. If Catalyst makes them, I will buy them. And if they do try some actual print cards, color even, I will be one happy gamer!
How about free? Is free a good format? ^-^
Go here. (http://masterunitlist.info/) Look up any unit, and scroll to the bottom of the page. About 90% will have an Alpha Strike card there for you to print out. They're currently undergoing an update process, but the existing cards are still highly usable.
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How about free? Is free a good format? ^-^
Go here. (http://masterunitlist.info/) Look up any unit, and scroll to the bottom of the page. About 90% will have an Alpha Strike card there for you to print out. They're currently undergoing an update process, but the existing cards are still highly usable.
Oh, I know all about the MUL--love it and use it all the time, but Catalyst has made mention of possible dead-tree support for Alpha Strike, and I would dearly love to see packs of pre-printed cards. Era-based PDFs would also be nice, and would suffice.
Thanks!
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Oh, I know all about the MUL--love it and use it all the time, but Catalyst has made mention of possible dead-tree support for Alpha Strike, and I would dearly love to see packs of pre-printed cards. Era-based PDFs would also be nice, and would suffice.
Thanks!
*hmms* You know..that is a good point...Alpha Strike stats on cards like, say, the Shadowrun Drone and Vehicle Cards they
sell at GenCon would be good...heck, it would be a great marketing thing, as all the modern miniatures games use cards...
(Warhammer is not Modern..like BattleTech, it is an old game system, they just update the rules far more often)
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I love the idea of having good looking full color AS cards. What would be really nice is if they were the size of normal playing cards so you can put them in card sleeves. With that you could almost get a company of mechs on the same size sheet as a TW record sheet. The biggest issue I could see with this though is getting single cards. I'm guessing that if they did put out the cards they would probably come in packs based on army lists. If you needed one mech from an army list for your own custom army list then you would have to buy an entire pack for one unit. (I shudder to even mention it, but what would actually be the scariest outcome for fancy printed cards is if they sold them randomly in booster packs like Magic and other CCG games)
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They could use the Quick Strike cards a template and just do releases by TRO. One thing I loved about the first batch of totally free QS cards (the ones that matched the Mechs in the starter box) was the world info on the flip side of them: manufacturer, tonnage, weapons systems, etc.
It just added flavor. I'd love to see that continue with official AS cards, PDF or hard copy.
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Just reduce the movement from inches by half and *boom* hex conversion. O0
Pretty darn easy.
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Go here. Look up any unit, and scroll to the bottom of the page. About 90% will have an Alpha Strike card there for you to print out. They're currently undergoing an update process, but the existing cards
Being a newb: I assume I'm looking up the mech the correct way. For example, I looked up the Salamander PPR-5S found in the army list (pg 138). I then went to the MUL and typed in "Salamander PPR-5S" and the stats are very different. Is there another version of this mech or is this one that needs updating?
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Being a newb: I assume I'm looking up the mech the correct way. For example, I looked up the Salamander PPR-5S found in the army list (pg 138). I then went to the MUL and typed in "Salamander PPR-5S" and the stats are very different. Is there another version of this mech or is this one that needs updating?
Needs updating. Hopefully the MUL will be ready for updating in about a month.
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from what i understand, the MUL uses an older way of presenting certain stats (like damage), and hasn't been updated yet. apparently they have a massive update in the works, but are waiting for all the thousands of cards to be done before they have it go live.
hopefully the points will stay the same. :)
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from what i understand, the MUL uses an older way of presenting certain stats (like damage), and hasn't been updated yet. apparently they have a massive update in the works, but are waiting for all the thousands of cards to be done before they have it go live.
Yes, there is a massive update in the works. That was me giving an ETA on finishing. :D
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Under Quickstrike/BattleForce, the default was for special attacks such as missiles or autocannons to be listed in the unit abilities section, but not factored into the base damage level. So you'd look them up and add them to the S/M/L damage. In Alpha Strike, it's the other way around: The damage level includes them by default, and you subtract them if you're using a special ability.
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Been skimming it and the LC TRO in between ditch digging sessions and so far I'm liking it. The artillery rules solve some issues I had when converting from BF to QS and they cleaned up the special abilities and alternate ammunition nicely.
As a 'one stop shop' for rules I can use in my group's two years and going QS campaign this is great. I can point newcomers to it and not have to worry about explaining a lot of house rules or conversion details like I did with the Strategic Ops book.
However there are two glaring omissions that dissapointed me even though I knew one would not be in the book. The lack of rules for converting from battletech over to AS/NF were something I would have wanted in there. However I already knew they were't in there and I do have SO already but for newcomers it could be an issue. Hopefully they'll do a cheap PDF focused on converting units over or at least update that section of Strategic OPs to reflect some of the tweaks that went into QS.
The most bothersome thing they did not include were actual rules for the use of aerospace fighters on the actual game board. While the abstract map is fine I feel that it does not encourage the use of the full sized miniatures in the game. And if you play a game with more than one or two air units that map can get very crowded very quickly.
Finally the Campaign system was nice and very familiar to anyone who's used the previous incarnations. The inclusion of repairs based on dots of damage taken instead of tonnage also helps make some designs harder to repair than others. However I found the rules on salvage to harsh, and would have preferred that they kept the 'purchasing' costs the same as in Total Chaos instead of the by weight class cost in AS.
Hopefully they'll quickly follow this up with an advanced or optional rules booklet which will include the rules for things like L.A.Ms, some of the newer unit types from the Dark Age Era, air units on the table, and some other things that just didn't make sense for this book.
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Yes, there is a massive update in the works. That was me giving an ETA on finishing. :D
Timbqui Darks all around when it's finished? :P
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Timbqui Darks all around when it's finished? :P
No, I think real, not fictional beverages will be in order then. :)
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Yes, there is a massive update in the works. That was me giving an ETA on finishing. :D
It's done when it's done and it's not done before then.
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It's done when it's done and it's not done before then.
Or maybe he means another month and then's he's done (for)? :)
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So just saw one thing in here that's got me a bit annoyed. Page 42 under physical attacks.
A unit cannot make physicals attacks in the same turn they have made a weapons attack >:(
Not entirely sure why there even needs to be that limitation and definitely something my group will likely vote to ignore. Unless someone can convince me there's a logic to it that doesn't make units with the MEL units into dead weight. It also affects units with the AM ability which removes some of the danger of infantry/BA when stacked against its incredible fragiity
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It was in Quickstrike as well. Not my favourite rule.
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might be a casualty of the damage abstraction.. since its just "melee" instead of defined punches or kicks, the damage is probably supposed to represent an entire period of time devoted purely to punching and kicking. sorta like the Protomech frenzy attack in the standard game.
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I too think its about the abstraction, if you keep this rule then things can pop faster.
If things pop faster, it leads to faster game play, which is the goal for this scale.
Besides you'll eventually get to a point of abstraction where you can't do physicals at all in pure Regiment on Regiment "I'm a House Lord" scale. That's all assuming we ever get the rulebook for that of course. :)
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That's all assuming we ever get the rulebook for that of course. :)
That's Alex Knight's next job after he's done with the MUL. And he's got a christmas deadline. ;)
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That's Alex Knight's next job after he's done with the MUL. And he's got a christmas deadline. ;)
Just as soon as you get those economic rules to me... >:D
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Just as soon as you get those economic rules to me... >:D
You're asking me to go to R'lyeh again?!
You're paying for the gas this time. >:(
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Under Quickstrike/BattleForce, the default was for special attacks such as missiles or autocannons to be listed in the unit abilities section, but not factored into the base damage level. So you'd look them up and add them to the S/M/L damage. In Alpha Strike, it's the other way around: The damage level includes them by default, and you subtract them if you're using a special ability.
I have to say, this way seems more confusing to me because of special abilities. I would have thought leaving them separate just makes more sense. Maybe even change the cards slightly so it looks like this (no mech in particular):
S +0 M +2 L +4
Att 2 2 1
AC 2 2 0
LRM 1 1 1
It would change the cards a bit but not really any more typing. Maybe I'll just make this an at home project.
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I have to say, this way seems more confusing to me because of special abilities. I would have thought leaving them separate just makes more sense. Maybe even change the cards slightly so it looks like this (no mech in particular):
but then you run into issues. For instance, a single LRM-20 gives a damage profile of 1/2/2 (6 then 12 damage rounded up). It gives an LRM special of 1/1/1 however.
Now what if you have an LRM-20 and a small laser? Combined it's a damage profile of 1/2/2, separate it's 1/0/0 and 1/1/1. See the issue?
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So just saw one thing in here that's got me a bit annoyed. Page 42 under physical attacks.
A unit cannot make physicals attacks in the same turn they have made a weapons attack >:(
Not entirely sure why there even needs to be that limitation and definitely something my group will likely vote to ignore. Unless someone can convince me there's a logic to it that doesn't make units with the MEL units into dead weight. It also affects units with the AM ability which removes some of the danger of infantry/BA when stacked against its incredible fragiity
It's definitely an example of the one of the more extreme "keep Alpha Strike simple" rules in the game.
An assault 'mech (size 4) does not deal 40 damage with physical attacks. So the 4 physical damage isn't just it's actual physical attacks. But since it doesn't actually use the weapon damage values, it's a VERY simple approximation of weapons fire with physicals. As in it doesn't actually care what weapons (if any) you have.
If you're going to house rule using physicals and weapon attacks from the same unit in the same turn, I might suggest halving the size value for the physicals. An AS7-D does 20 damage with a kick/hatchet/2 punches, not 40. You can debate rounding up or down :).
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You're asking me to go to R'lyeh again?!
You're paying for the gas this time. >:(
Deal. I swiped Paul's card.
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I have to say, this way seems more confusing to me because of special abilities. I would have thought leaving them separate just makes more sense. Maybe even change the cards slightly so it looks like this (no mech in particular):
S +0 M +2 L +4
Att 2 2 1
AC 2 2 0
LRM 1 1 1
It would change the cards a bit but not really any more typing. Maybe I'll just make this an at home project.
But what about FLK? And IF? Do you add ART to your standard attacks? What about NARC?
When do you add TUR values? Do you add all the TUR values?
In Alpha Strike, you use base damage. Keep it simple.
What about FLK? If you are firing at an aerospace unit, check what it says. Otherwise, doesn't matter.
What about AC? If you want to use AC special munitions, check what it says. Otherwise, doesn't matter.
What about TUR? If you want to fire at a target not in your front arc, check your TUR. Otherwise, doesn't matter.
You only uses special abilities when there's a special situation. If you're just firing at a unit in your front arc, and you forget them, you're fine.
Shoot things, blow them up. This isn't a game of figuring out which numbers to add to which. The rule is don't add them.
If you're using a special ability, the special ability will say what to do with the numbers (and it's never* add them).
*one exception, TOR. There's always an exception. BLAH.
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Deal. I swiped Paul's card.
Hah! Joke's on you! It only works on E100.
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Deal. I swiped Paul's card.
It's abominating time. 8)
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So just saw one thing in here that's got me a bit annoyed. Page 42 under physical attacks.
A unit cannot make physicals attacks in the same turn they have made a weapons attack >:(
Not entirely sure why there even needs to be that limitation and definitely something my group will likely vote to ignore. Unless someone can convince me there's a logic to it that doesn't make units with the MEL units into dead weight. It also affects units with the AM ability which removes some of the danger of infantry/BA when stacked against its incredible fragiity
Yeah, but since there aren't specific/separate phases for weapons fire or physical combat you're just making an attack. So adding in the weapon damage would make it ridiculous for things like a Berserker.
Take, for example, the Hatchetman. He'd be 2/2/0. But with his size and the MEL special ability, he'd do 3 on a physical attack. So it is really reflects the damage from short-range combat.
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but then you run into issues. For instance, a single LRM-20 gives a damage profile of 1/2/2 (6 then 12 damage rounded up). It gives an LRM special of 1/1/1 however.
Now what if you have an LRM-20 and a small laser? Combined it's a damage profile of 1/2/2, separate it's 1/0/0 and 1/1/1. See the issue?
Somewhat. How was the LRM Special handled in the previous game?
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Somewhat. How was the LRM Special handled in the previous game?
Separately. Which is to say, poorly. ;)
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Very cool book. I am greatly looking forward to playing Alpha Strike. My hope is that it can rekindle some interest from the local guys and maybe draw in some new players. My group generally prefers large games, but simply don't have the time for a 15-hour battle these days.
I like the fast playing simplicity of it. I do have one dumb question - do units only have one firing arc? (i.e., they can't shoot behind them?)
Love the pictures in the book and all of the sample armies!
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Yep, only one arc. You'll need a turret to shoot outside that arc.
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It's done when it's done and it's not done before then.
2,644 out of 4,509 completed.
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Does that total include units that didn't have cards already?
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2,644 out of 4,509 completed.
[cheers] Keep it up. We're rooting for ya!
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Does that total include units that didn't have cards already?
If it has a (non-AS) sheet and it's smaller than a Small Craft, it's part of that total.
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Hah! Joke's on you! It only works on E100.
100% ethanol fuel is is going to be rough on the car but it will get them there, and hopefully back (And going to visit Cthulhu? That sort of thing is minor)
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100% ethanol fuel is is going to be rough on the car but it will get them there, and hopefully back (And going to visit Cthulhu? That sort of thing is minor)
Either you gas up at a local NASCAR venue, or your gas stations are odd/ahead of their time...
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If it has a (non-AS) sheet and it's smaller than a Small Craft, it's part of that total.
Including LAM's? Or are those on hold until a suppliment is made with specific rules for them?
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Including LAM's? Or are those on hold until a suppliment is made with specific rules for them?
Can't say.
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Fair enough. I just really like LAM's, and look forward to a chance to using mine in this ruleset.
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Either you gas up at a local NASCAR venue, or your gas stations are odd/ahead of their time...
Was the best I could come up with for what E100 meant
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My apologies, I missed what the 10% of conversion was between QS to AS was. I'm looking at the stats and they all seem pretty similar. What am I missing.
My goal for asking is because I plan to convert over the Intro Box Mech cards ASAP for some demo games.
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You are in luck sir!
http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2403
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So...Herb posted this over on facebook...
Zeus... Herbert? And I even like the color! — ;) feeling proud.
(http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/images/Zeus-Herbert-86.jpg)
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Expletive that looks good!
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Say, that looks slick. If that's the future look for cards I'm impressed. Just as long as they are printed on heavier card. Having to photocopy those out of a book would be a huge injustice to the quality.
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89 out of 90 ... go on, tell us more.
It would be sweet if there was some sort of GenCon exclusive card set. The two items together would be gold for demo runners.
And where on FB, can't find it.
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Well, color me marketed to! O0
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Beautiful card. This just keeps getting better!
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Yeah, I'd buy a box of cards like that, especially if they're pre-laminated or will fit into standard-sized sleeves.
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So...Herb posted this over on facebook...
(http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/images/Zeus-Herbert-86.jpg)
Very nice! I want!
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Just got done playing a quick game with the son. If there is one suggestion I have, it's that a new stat eventually be added to the game, Handling.
This would be the static bonus Mechs get from their Move plus Jump jets. i.e., a Mech with a move of 8j" would have a Handling of +2, while a Mech with 18" move would have a Handling of +3.
Or if one wanted to make math easier for MP Critical Hits, then Handling would be written for 8J" as H: 2/1/0 and for 13" as H:3/2/1/0
For my 2 cents, since this game is aimed at the Warmahordes/40K crowd, they'll wonder why a defensive bonus that remains fairly constant - and important - in the game is "hidden."
While BT players will get it as is, new, savvy players will be scratching their heads.
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Ok, I'm able to decipher most of the card's content.
But what does the 86/90 in the bottom left corner mean, as well as what is IF2 or *Bloodstalker?
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Ok, I'm able to decipher most of the card's content.
But what does the 86/90 in the bottom left corner mean, as well as what is IF2 or *Bloodstalker?
I am assuming that's 89 cards out of run of 90 in a set. IF2 is a AS Special Ability that lets the mech carry about 2 tons of Infantry. Blood Stalker? Not in the rule book. Perhaps that 90th card is a list of new Special Abilities?
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Whoa, what? IF is Indirect Fire. And Blood Stalker is a special pilot ability from A Time of War.
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:-[ My bad on the IF. I've been reading my PDF at too small a zoom and IT looks the same.
In the AS book, there isn't a Blood Stalker ability. So what does BS do in the RPG?
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Ah, alright. thx. Is there a reason no other special abilities are listed? Did the QS/BF abilities just disappear?
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In the AS book, there isn't a Blood Stalker ability. So what does BS do in the RPG?
Nominate a single target. You gain +1 bonus to hit that target with weapons fire for the duration of the game.
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Can some one help me out? I am trying to find the page number in the AS book that explains that Special Ability weapon damage has now been folded into the basic profile. Please forgive me if I am missing the obvious! As my game group and I have played more than a few QS games, I want to be able to point this out to them so they can see exactly what I am talking about.
Thanks!
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Alternate munitions rules starting on page 76
In gameplay, an attacking player who wishes to use specialty munitions need only declare that his attack will make use of its alternative ammunition (and what type of alternate ammunition it is). the player then rolls for a weapons attack as normal, using the base range and damage values for the special ability that works with the unit’s alternate munitions. If the attack is successful, adjust the ability’s normal damage values and other special effects as appropriate to the rules for the specialty ammo type used.
Note that an attack using specialty munitions replaces the unit’s normal attack values for its requisite special ability. Unless otherwise noted, use of alternate munitions does not provide the unit with an extra bonus attack, but will modify the standard weapon attacks of the unit accordingly
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Alternate munitions rules starting on page 76
Ok, so it's sort by implication. It does not specifically state that "Special ability damage for normal attacks with LRMs, FL, etc. has already been folded into the unit's basic profile." Not trying to be obtuse here, just want to be clear on how I explain this to folks. And I do like the change. The less calculating during combat the better.
On, and as an aside, that sample unit card up thread? Take my money!!!!!!!
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I don't think there's any one point where it's stated flat out, no. it's worked out between alternate munitions and the special abilities. But because the book is meant to stand alone, there isn't a section that goes through the changes from quick strike
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Nominate a single target. You gain +1 bonus to hit that target with weapons fire for the duration of the game.
And a -2 penalty for any attacks against a target other than the blood stalker target until the turn after the target is dead/retreated.
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Whoa, AToW special ability on the card?!
8) Sweeeeeeeeeet I hope there will be more later.
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Whoa, AToW special ability on the card?!
8) Sweeeeeeeeeet I hope there will be more later.
Abilities is what will make AS very good. It could be interesting to have a kind of special abilities you can get increasing (or decreasing) BV. A little like Quirks. Only one by Mech. This abilities could be given during campaigns or scenarios, at the end of tracks.
Anyway, it open good doors. :D
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That IS a very pretty card.
I'm hoping they do something equally as snazzy for the rear of the card.
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That IS a very pretty card.
I'm hoping they do something equally as snazzy for the rear of the card.
I would enjoy few fluff on the rear (mass, size, this way you give this card to friends and they can imerge more. :) )
Like this:
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Grizzly_card_zps1507727d.jpg)
Maybe adding the name of the House which create the BattleMech.
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Holy crap, I really REALLY hope we see these cards for sale at GenCon!
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With a surname like that, I expect this MechWarrior to be taken as a bondsman by a certain Star Colonel Edmund of Clan Star Adder, whose unique special rule involves the formation of the Cunning PlanTM...
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Whoa, AToW special ability on the card?!
8) Sweeeeeeeeeet I hope there will be more later.
It looks to me like this card specifically represents a guy named Herbert Baldric in his own customized Zeus. This would explain the SPA, the fixed skill rating, and the point value that is far higher than most Zeuses - I bet that point value has been adjusted to include the SPA and the skill rating. If that's the case, we may be looking at a set of 90 unique warriors and their rides, or at least a set where some of the cards are unique warriors, probably famous ace pilots of this era.
If this is the case, I'm in! O0
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So, as far as I can figure that is a Zeus ZEU-9S2 on the card. Though the numbers don't quite match up--I am using SSW, which works off of the old Battleforce stats. Assuming this is the correct 'Mech, Herb pilots one beastly machine!
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Actually, I hope they use the back of the card as a mini ref for what the specials do...
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I love the look of that card. I'd buy a deck of those in a heartbeat -- half a heartbeat (kaching! in between the "lub" and the "dub") if the 3025 and 3050 'mechs are included. But please, please, PUH-LEEEZ, don't sell them as randomized booster packs or something like the 800-pound-gorilla-CCG-that-must-not-be-named... ::)
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Man, I can see a new custom thread for quick-strike characters...
I'll be an ASN-23 Assassin set before the Clan Invasion.
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We will get a card template? I would love to make custom cards from my custom mechs. This is one I did for this Jonathan González mech:
http://brotherostavia.deviantart.com/art/Spider-mech-is-tingling-318129716
long before he started making BT covers :D
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It seems that AS makes some 'Mechs very different than TW; a C3 Slave without a master is now useful and the Gallant is pretty darn good as it moves like a Thanatos :o
It appears that BAP, C3 slaves and IJJs are now a really big deal.
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C3 Slaves were already useful outside of a net. Look for 'em in TacOps.
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We will get a card template?
Does this help?
http://masterunitlist.info/images/qscard.png
I imagine this'll get updated at some point.
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Does this help?
I imagine this'll get updated at some point.
not actually, because I already use this template (see the card in my post). I was asking about the colored card
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We will get a card template? I would love to make custom cards from my custom mechs. This is one I did for this Jonathan González mech:
http://brotherostavia.deviantart.com/art/Spider-mech-is-tingling-318129716
long before he started making BT covers :D
There's also a sheet of blank cards in the back of the PDF for Alpha Strike...
And yes, some mechs aren't near what they are in TW rules while some you might have never taken are solid designs.
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...while some you might have never taken are solid designs.
Viva la Thorn! :D
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not actually, because I already use this template (see the card in my post). I was asking about the colored card
I would expect those are handmade as far as layout goes using some high-end graphics program.
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C3 Slaves were already useful outside of a net. Look for 'em in TacOps.
I appear to have lost my way, could you direct me toward these rules? It would be nice to be able to get a little something extra out of a design that isn't linked to a network!
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Given the sheer quality of the 3145-era art works being shown as of late, I'd be excited to see how well this kind of colour Unit Card might look when the time comes to get Alpha Strike caught up with the Dark Age.
And it would be interesting to see how a QuadVee or a Colossal might be handled in Unit Card form when that time comes...
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I appear to have lost my way, could you direct me toward these rules? It would be nice to be able to get a little something extra out of a design that isn't linked to a network!
My mistake. It's C3 Masters and lone C3i units that gain benefits in TO. :-[
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A shame, but it is good that something comes out of it for those who invest that much weight into a system, even when they are not networked.
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As long as you can edit it, HELL YES!
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As long as you can edit it, HELL YES!
+1
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2,644 out of 4,509 completed.
2,703 out of 4,513 completed.
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2,703 out of 4,513 completed.
Almost there! Thanks for knocking this out and losing part of your sanity in the process!
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What does that small "A" in the circle mean?
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What does that small "A" in the circle mean?
Assault? Amazing? anti-humanity?
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What does that small "A" in the circle mean?
Based on how it is next to a collector's number, it probably indicates which set the card is from. It's pretty standard even for non-collectible card games to indicate that sort of thing on their cards.
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http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/08/01/catalyst-at-gen-con-2013/
Scroll down, and you'll find that Catalyst plans to have a deck of 90 pre-printed Alpha Strike unit cards ready for GenCon, under the name "Alpha Strike Ad Hoc Unit Cards." Presumably the name reflects that it's a collection of 'Mechs from different eras and Technical Readouts to get players right into the game now, with future themed releases coming. If this is going to be a continually-supported thing, then I may just get back into collecting miniatures.
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http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/08/01/catalyst-at-gen-con-2013/
Scroll down, and you'll find that Catalyst plans to have a deck of 90 pre-printed Alpha Strike unit cards ready for GenCon, under the name "Alpha Strike Ad Hoc Unit Cards." Presumably the name reflects that it's a collection of 'Mechs from different eras and Technical Readouts to get players right into the game now, with future themed releases coming. If this is going to be a continually-supported thing, then I may just get back into collecting miniatures.
Thanks for the link.
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http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/08/01/catalyst-at-gen-con-2013/
Scroll down, and you'll find that Catalyst plans to have a deck of 90 pre-printed Alpha Strike unit cards ready for GenCon, under the name "Alpha Strike Ad Hoc Unit Cards." Presumably the name reflects that it's a collection of 'Mechs from different eras and Technical Readouts to get players right into the game now, with future themed releases coming. If this is going to be a continually-supported thing, then I may just get back into collecting miniatures.
Plus Fire for Effect will be released.
Oh how I wish I could drop by GenCon this year and get everything from the booth.
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Here is to hoping that "Alpha Strike Ad Hoc Unit Cards." won't be a GenCon exclusive.
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http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/08/01/catalyst-at-gen-con-2013/
Scroll down, and you'll find that Catalyst plans to have a deck of 90 pre-printed Alpha Strike unit cards ready for GenCon, under the name "Alpha Strike Ad Hoc Unit Cards." Presumably the name reflects that it's a collection of 'Mechs from different eras and Technical Readouts to get players right into the game now, with future themed releases coming. If this is going to be a continually-supported thing, then I may just get back into collecting miniatures.
Perhaps the 80 non-character 'Mechs are the ones listed on pages 135-141 in the AS rulebook? (That would be 12 for each of the five Great Houses, plus ten apiece for the Wolves and Jade Falcons.)
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Here is to hoping that "Alpha Strike Ad Hoc Unit Cards." won't be a GenCon exclusive.
Same here :(
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Perhaps the 80 non-character 'Mechs are the ones listed on pages 135-141 in the AS rulebook? (That would be 12 for each of the five Great Houses, plus ten apiece for the Wolves and Jade Falcons.)
Maybe they changed the verbiage since you looked but it sure sounds like it.
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I'm just speculating here, but for the other card deck (the Leviathan's Ship and Crew Quirks) is a two phase product. One is a physical Gen Con Exclusive and then a general PDF sale item.
They might be considering the same thing for Alpha-Strike to keep interest up.
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Got the PDF, whee! Man, I wish I could make it to gencon, but I say that EVERY year. :'(
Cards look awesome; I may have missed it, but are the QS 3039 cards compatible with Alpha strike? i ASSUME they are, but you know what they say about when you assume. ;)
thanks!
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For us cardboard miniatures guys... anyone up to making a counter with the picture on the front and the stats on the back? >:D I'll try it when I get a chance.
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Maybe it was already asked and answered but I don't have the patience to troll through 20 pages of topic discussion. :P
Where will the updated rules for converting Total War units to Alpha Strike/Battleforce units be released?
In the upcoming Strategic Operations errata or in one of the mentioned Alpha Strike supplements?
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SO errata.
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No, I think real, not fictional beverages will be in order then. :)
So..Ten Fitty all around?
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2,703 out of 4,513 completed.
2,813 out of 4,519 completed
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Are any of the units from the various TRO:3145 files a part of that list, or are they all on hold until after the grand update is completed?
(And will any of the unit types which had not been given Unit Cards to this point, such as WarShips, be accommodated this time around, or would they have to wait for a future decision to be made about them?)
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Are any of the units from the various TRO:3145 files a part of that list, or are they all on hold until after the grand update is completed?
They're on the list, yes.
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They're on the list, yes.
Awww, yeah. I think the Sarath variants are going to turn out nicely in Alpha Strike, especially with the turret.
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They're on the list, yes.
Good to note.
Does that include some of the unorthodox units, like the Colossi and the QuadVees; or would they need to wait until rules governing their operation were added to BF/AS?
(I gather that the various LAMs have no Unit Cards, due to the lack of rules governing their use in BF/AS at this point. If that was true, I was wondering if any of the 3145 units would run into a similar dilemma.)
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Good to note.
Does that include some of the unorthodox units, like the Colossi and the QuadVees; or would they need to wait until rules governing their operation were added to BF/AS?
(I gather that the various LAMs have no Unit Cards, due to the lack of rules governing their use in BF/AS at this point. If that was true, I was wondering if any of the 3145 units would run into a similar dilemma.)
That is being dealt with.
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That is being dealt with.
In that case, I look forward to seeing what CGL has in store for these unit types.
Thank you.
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I haven't heard anything about this, but will Alpha Strike include rules for WarShips and DropShips? (Basically fast-play Aerotech)
I'm seriously considering picking the book up...
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There's always a possibility, but I don't remember anything concrete being said.
Though if you have StratOps and some time, you can convert squadrons of fighters, individual Dropships, and Warships to Battleforce and play that way.
My group calls it Battletech Space Battleforce.....BattleFace. The games really do fly quickly, especially if you use the ranges from Alpha Strike on hexes (or inches)
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There are a few pages on abstract aerospace play. In that section there are quotes like this:
While on the ground, DropShip-type aerospace units may provide partial cover for Battlemechs as if they were a building (see Partial Cover, p. 34)
Also, in the firing arc rules they show a drop ship and discuss their arcs.
There are also rules for capital and sub capital weapons like those found on warships. And they have an abstract aerospace system. Understand I've not read that far yet to give any details.
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Nothing for space combat(yet), but if it's atmosphere-capable(more than once), the Alpha Strike core rulebook has rules for it. It's a lot like Total War+TacOps, minus anything that happens above the space/atmosphere interface.
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Played a company on company match against Clansittingducks today. The only reason it took more than two hours was because we had to look up everything as we wanted to tryout as many things as we could. A few lessons learned; don't DFA an Assassin, don't get into melee with an Archer with a Spider, don't jump a Wolverine into close range with an Atlas and a Thunderbolt and always, always watch your back arc O:-)
The game was fast and brutal with a small canyon that became a scrap yard for half a company being the peak of the violent clash.
Much fun was had O0
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Nothing for space combat(yet), but if it's atmosphere-capable(more than once), the Alpha Strike core rulebook has rules for it. It's a lot like Total War+TacOps, minus anything that happens above the space/atmosphere interface.
it would have been nice to have full rules for Aerospace units on the map, as in "flying fighters around on the 3D terrain".. the abstract system works, but being able to just fly the planes around on the terrain itself would be nice.
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it would have been nice to have full rules for Aerospace units on the map, as in "flying fighters around on the 3D terrain".. the abstract system works, but being able to just fly the planes around on the terrain itself would be nice.
I believe that the size of the table should be enormous to handle the speed of the fighters
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Played a company on company match against Clansittingducks today. The only reason it took more than two hours was because we had to look up everything as we wanted to tryout as many things as we could. A few lessons learned; don't DFA an Assassin, don't get into melee with an Archer with a Spider, don't jump a Wolverine into close range with an Atlas and a Thunderbolt and always, always watch your back arc O:-)
The game was fast and brutal with a small canyon that became a scrap yard for half a company being the peak of the violent clash.
Much fun was had O0
You discovered a lot of things my group did.
For YEARS I wondered why the Shadowhawk and other less than stellar Mechs were mass produced.
Then I look at the Alpha Strike and Battleforce stats.
:o Holy dice these things are decent troopers now.
In a game where long range really can make or break certain missions, even a 1 point plink for a couple of turns will cripple the most scariest short range brawler.
Plus light Mechs are evil, even standing still! >:D
This game scale is great for those who loved the Star League.
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Thank you Klat for the first AS AAR I've seen.
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Thank you Klat for the first AS AAR I've seen.
If I get a chance to sit down for a bit I'll give more detail. I must say that after playing AS I may build a force of Tau Ceti Lancers; light and medium 'Mechs really come into their own under these rules.
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I believe that the size of the table should be enormous to handle the speed of the fighters
You could make the same argument about artillery and yet that gets 'scaled down' a bit to make it useable.
And if this is really the miniature rules designed to compete with other 'popular' sci-fi games such as Warmahordes and Warhammer 40k then adopting some of their laxity in scales just to permit more and varied unit types on the table top isn't a bad idea.
Still it's easy enough to house rule using the stuff from SO which is what I've been doing for a while now. However something official would be nice as well so as to make teaching players slightly easier.
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Artillery's range is handled by abstractly moving it off board, the same as aerospace.
If you want fast on board, there are hovers, and WiGE and VTOL or even airships available.
If you want something that literally flies across the board in one turn, it's portrayed abstractly, its flight path only placed on the table when its on the table and that's not for long.
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Artillery's range is handled by abstractly moving it off board, the same as aerospace.
If you want fast on board, there are hovers, and WiGE and VTOL or even airships available.
If you want something that literally flies across the board in one turn, it's portrayed abstractly, its flight path only placed on the table when its on the table and that's not for long.
I was actually supporting George_Labour's question until you posted this. You're quite correct; it wouldn't be "simplifying" and "scaling down" aerospace units, it would have to drastically change how they function, destroying compatibility with other BattleTech products.
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For YEARS I wondered why the Shadowhawk and other less than stellar Mechs were mass produced.
Then I look at the Alpha Strike and Battleforce stats.
Well, if someone wants to really mirror the unit's effectiveness in both games, then I guess you could assign a "classic design" tax on the AS unit. If you add three points or so to PV, then the design isn't worth the cost compared to other units.
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There's also a sheet of blank cards in the back of the PDF for Alpha Strike...
And yes, some mechs aren't near what they are in TW rules while some you might have never taken are solid designs.
And then there are some designs that become absolute beasts. (Naginata with a C3 spotter, Mr. Coyote? ;) )
Still remember the time I played the Thunderbolt NAIS against Weirdo/Atlas et al when I was still in TX and the QS rules had first come out. The look on his face was priceless... something like this: :o
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Quick Strike makes a lot of "bad" designs good. It's awesome.
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Quick Strike makes a lot of "bad" designs good. It's awesome.
Friend, when it lets a Nova Prime *melt* an Avatar in a single round of fire, that goes beyond awesome. >:D
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I also enjoy taking out the Linebacker D O:-)
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Friend, when it lets a Nova Prime *melt* an Avatar in a single round of fire, that goes beyond awesome. >:D
The Atlas II is so much fun! >:D
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Viva la Thorn! O0
Seriously. We were halfway through our first large QS game when people saw how my forces were performing, looked that the THE-N card, and warned me that Thorn usage was a privilege, not a right. And doing things like building all-Thorn forces would likely get that privilege revoked.
Another unit that has surprised me with its Alpha Strike stats is the Fire Scorpion. It's not as flashy as most other Clan heavies, but it's tough as nails, dirt cheap for a Clanner, and has a surprisingly solid punch, doing 3 damage at all ranges. It won't win fights by itself, but it'll definitely contribute more than its fair share of damage dealt. Makes me want to build a dedicated force centered around a Goliath Scorpion Seeker and her entourage.
(I play hexed games, but in minis play, the Fire Scorpion would probably have even more of an advantage, because of the incredibly low-slung profile, allowing it to hide behind a lot more cover than most other 'mechs.
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Other than the Thorn and Stalking Spider, what other 'Mechs are surprisingly good?
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If a unit moves faster than 4/6/0 and mounts a small AC or LRM rack as the long-range firepower, then it went from minor annoyance in Total War to reliable trooper in Alpha Strike. For examples, see the Dragon, Quickdraw, Clint....heck, half of TRO 3039 gained some serious utility, and it's exactly the half that the more firepower-focused players tend to ignore. A lance of Vedettes used to be a throwaway mook force, little more than an excuse to toss a couple dice and boost your salvage stores. Now, you'd best deal with them fast, otherwise they'll tear your heavy 'mechs apart.
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Does that include the Vedette, Weirdo?
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Looking at the conversion rules the Heavy Rifle may make a come back as the reduction factor to it's damage doesn't seem to apply so massed fire will see it out perform the AC/5
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the MUL stats on the Kraken 3 aren't updated, but i suspect it'll be a nasty one too.. anything that can boast an LRM 7/7/7 and IF7 keyword ought to gain a lot of basic firepower under the alpha strike damage system..
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the MUL stats on the Kraken 3 aren't updated, but i suspect it'll be a nasty one too.. anything that can boast an LRM 7/7/7 and IF7 keyword ought to gain a lot of basic firepower under the alpha strike damage system..
8/8/8 with IF 7 and LRM 7/7/7 actually.
oh and as a tease, the Omega is a 5/6/6 with FLK 1/1/1
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Other than the Thorn and Stalking Spider, what other 'Mechs are surprisingly good?
The Dragonfly. I've only played the prime but it seems to be the one last standing after a fight. 16inches of jump is just awesome. If I can get within 2 inches of a target that target will never be able to evade the dragonfly as long as the dragonfly doesn't lose INI. for more than one turn. It's the first time in 20 years of playing btech that I've considered making a star of only one mech type.
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If a unit moves faster than 4/6/0 and mounts a small AC or LRM rack as the long-range firepower, then it went from minor annoyance in Total War to reliable trooper in Alpha Strike. For examples, see the Dragon, Quickdraw, Clint....heck, half of TRO 3039 gained some serious utility, and it's exactly the half that the more firepower-focused players tend to ignore. A lance of Vedettes used to be a throwaway mook force, little more than an excuse to toss a couple dice and boost your salvage stores. Now, you'd best deal with them fast, otherwise they'll tear your heavy 'mechs apart.
Sort of breaths new life into 3039. Gives that era some more playability as well.
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oh and as a tease, the Omega is a 5/6/6 with FLK 1/1/1
You just made a few of my Blakist friends happy.
Sort of breaths new life into 3039. Gives that era some more playability as well.
The big 4rth Succession War fights now can be viable at some tables instead of just a random fantasy.
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The omega is fairly cheap for its power at 30pts, and it has c3I and mhq2...
Honestly, wobbies get really nasty due to the mhq #'s a full c3I level II can put out.. your almost always going to have a huge init bonus and be starting with hidden units.
In regards to poor designs becoming troopers.. the scorpion tank. 8 inch move, 2/1/1 fire power with a 1/1/1 turret, and can take 4 damage total. All for only 3 points.sure it dies quick, but you can carpet the battlefield with tanks. A 120pt company of mechs could face down a battalion of 40 tanks.. ouch.
And vedettes, usually the better choice, can only take an extra 2 damage and cost 2 more points, making them the inferior choice from an economy perspective. The scorpion also beats out the savannah master.. a savvy is 2pts, nill fire power (1/1/0) and can only take 2 damage. though the massive movement rate is a perk, making them still useable as a good scouting unit.
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The big 4rth Succession War fights now can be viable at some tables instead of just a random fantasy.
I knew I would come to rue the day I sold those atlases off.
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Just to digress slightly, do we have a street date on the hardcopy AS book? I know it will be at Gen Con, but it would be great if it were also in shops around that time. Thanks!
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Just to digress slightly, do we have a street date on the hardcopy AS book? I know it will be at Gen Con, but it would be great if it were also in shops around that time. Thanks!
Street date has not been announced anywhere I've seen.
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Does that include the Vedette, Weirdo?
Hells yes, it does! O0 A unit with a permanent +2 to-hit and capable of doing damage at long range? This might not seem like much, until you remember that even 1 damage is respectable, and as cheap as Vedettes go, you can easily take a lance of them for an insignificant amount of points. That's 4 points of long-range damage, and the high-to-hit numbers at that range are often negated by the number of to-hits you're rolling. A heavy 'mech that must close to medium range before it can deal reliable damage is going to be chewed up by the time it closes.
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Release date: my email for the combo says expected ship date of August 20th for the hardback. And on the Gencon coverage it advertises it will be for sale there...with the caveat that everything may not be available.
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A bit of advice: Never consider a book's release date as more than the vaguest of hints until you are actually holding said book. Weird unpredictable shit happens WAY to often to actually expect release dates to hold firm.
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Release date: my email for the combo says expected ship date of August 20th for the hardback. And on the Gencon coverage it advertises it will be for sale there...with the caveat that everything may not be available.
That may be an estimated date but it's just that; an estimate. FWIW, what's been said before is that when Catalyst has them physically in the warehouse and knows when they can get them guaranteed from the warehouse through the distributor and out to store, that's when they announce a street date.
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2,899 out of 4,524 finished.
and as a treat, here's some BA to brighten everyone's day:
Nephilim (Capture Team) [HMG]:
Type: BA
Size: 1
MV: 4"f
Armor: 3
Structure: 2
Damage: 2/1/1
PV: 6
Specials:
BTAS6,CAR6,LMAS
Enjoy! :D
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A scholar and a gentleman! O0
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question..
are the current, old format, stats for protomechs in the MUL representing a full point? because i'm having a hard time believing the Roc (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2726/roc-standard) can do 4/4/0 with just one ERML..
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question..
are the current, old format, stats for protomechs in the MUL representing a full point? because i'm having a hard time believing the Roc (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2726/roc-standard) can do 4/4/0 with just one ERML..
That's for a full Point of the same suit. If you want mixed Points, you're going to have to calculate them yourself. Sorry but that's a bit too much to take on. #P
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That's for a full Point of the same suit. If you want mixed Points, you're going to have to calculate them yourself. Sorry but that's a bit too much to take on. #P
are we going to get individual protomech stats for Alpha Strike? that was the main reason i asked. since point costs for most things shouldn't change when the update goes live, i've been using the MUL to plan forces.. but the protomech cards on the current MUL seemed a bit potent and high priced, so i figured i'd check.
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are we going to get individual protomech stats for Alpha Strike?
Point costs and combat values are and will be for the entire Point of five ProtoMechs.
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Point costs and combat values are and will be for the entire Point of five ProtoMechs.
Alpha Strike does have rules for moving and attacking Protomechs individually, but its still based in the full point stats. You take a full point, stats are for the full point, but there are rules for splitting them up during play.
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Divide by five, add up the various decimals, round off. That's how I'd go.
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Alpha Strike does have rules for moving and attacking Protomechs individually, but its still based in the full point stats. You take a full point, stats are for the full point, but there are rules for splitting them up during play.
that seems a bit overly complex.. especially when you consider things like Society Un's with nonstandard point sizes. (3 instead of 5)
having stats for just a single machine (which is how they operate), and keeping the 'all proto's in a point must be the same type" limit seems easier for players. this means that you can just add a "protomech Un" exception when the Society's stuff gets covered in Alphastrike. (since the Nova CEWS's quasi-C3 function, and the indirect fire and special ammo capable iATM's don't seem to be covered yet)
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that seems a bit overly complex.. especially when you consider things like Society Un's with nonstandard point sizes. (3 instead of 5)
having stats for just a single machine (which is how they operate), and keeping the 'all proto's in a point must be the same type" limit seems easier for players. this means that you can just add a "protomech Un" exception when the Society's stuff gets covered in Alphastrike. (since the Nova CEWS's quasi-C3 function, and the indirect fire and special ammo capable iATM's don't seem to be covered yet)
I keep seeing "The Society" pop up. Who the heck are they and where do I find out about them?
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I keep seeing "The Society" pop up. Who the heck are they and where do I find out about them?
A conspiracy in the Scientist Caste of many Clans(I like to call them Clan Dilbert), mostly in the Homeworlds. Read up on them in the Wars of Reaving products. Their forces were mostly Protomechs and tanks, with some 'mechs and almost no infantry. They have a WEIRD organizational setup and extremely high tech, even compared to the Clans.
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Weird but fun.
The basic unit is an Un.
One Un is 1 mech, 3 battlearmor, 7 Vees, 1 fighter, or 3 protos.
The next highets is a Trey, which is 3 Un's
A Sept is the highest, 2 Treys and a command Un.
And they used normal clan protos and BA alongside their own designs, making alphastrike stats tougher to get.
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If we did AS Protomech stats for so for Protomechs, they'd all be 1s and the light/fast Protomechs would be the deadliest thing in AS (for their point cost).
With the change in scale for AS, Protomechs have to join the conventional infantry and battle armor as being grouped together in units.
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hard to accept that assumption when most proto's are about on par with IS early tech light mechs, and cost about the same in BV. (or more, in many cases)
plus, unlike BA and infantry, protomechs were created to operate independently from the get go in the battletech ground scale. the designs and mini's had that in mind from the start. i mean, the Satyr (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Satyr) Proto's Light Active Probe for example was a cheap way to get scouting ability across the map. running them clustered together in a tight group, you lose the advantage of having 5 of them in battletech ground scale. same for the combat forms too.. yeah you gain some concentration of fire, but it comes at the expense of more complicated rules and more difficult movement. and the ability to split your point up and make the enemy only be able to engage a couple at a time, makes them as survivable as a similar group of light mechs.
in battleforce, the ground scale is different. when even mechs are being run as full lances per counter on the board, 5 proto's as a single counter makes sense too. the ground scale is hugely different.
treating Proto's in Alphastrike as 'mini-mechs' is closer to how they work in regular battletech, and is a lot simpler.
and how much harder would it be to add a "single proto" AS card for each type to the MUL? compared to the thousands of units total?
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You'll be pleased to know that in AS, ProtoMech Points do not need to maintain cohesion or all fire on the same target. You're free to move individual Protos all over the map and fire on as many targets as you have Protos. you just won't be doing full damage.
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Perhaps it might be worth checking the Society ProtoMechs (or "Z" variants) when their conversions are being done, to see if that particular class was ever used by a "standard" Clan (such as the Coyotes).
If it was (such as the Sprite and Hobgoblin, both of which are listed on the 3085 Homeworld ProtoMech RATs in WoR:S), it could be offered in AS with the assumption of a five-proto Point.
However, if it was a variant which no Clan ever adopted (such as the Procyon Z or Roc Z, which even the Coyotes don't have on their 3072 ProtoMech RAT), it could instead be done up using Society force organization templates (perhaps as a three-proto Un).
Or, perhaps the units or Z-variants that only served in the Society could be skipped for the time being, and revisited once the Wars of Reaving are handled in a future AS PDF supplement. (At which point, other Society-specific Unit Cards might be offered, based on their descriptions in WoR:S?)
EDIT: And speaking of non-standard force organizations, how many BA troopers are in a single squad, as used by the Marians? Do the Legions use standard IS deployments for their troopers, or would a Unit Card of standard Spheroid BA squads not represent how things work in the MHAF?
I recall that on the BattleMech side of things, the Marians deploy those units in five-'Mech centuries. But how many BA troopers would equate to each BattleMech from the Legions' point of view?
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hard to accept that assumption when most proto's are about on par with IS early tech light mechs, and cost about the same in BV. (or more, in many cases)
Just curious, what were the fluff reasons why Protomechs didn't replace IS light mechs?
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Just curious, what were the fluff reasons why Protomechs didn't replace IS light mechs?
probably the limited protomech production facilities in the IS, and the need for small EI implanted pilots.
odds are the IS efforts to duplicate the tech (as seen in that story in techmanual) were a minor sideline compared to building more general clan tech production.. and the fear of cybernetics caused by the Manei-Domini made it hard to get EI implants or DNI technologies into the mainstream enough to make it worthwhile.
odds are super-heavy proto's with their PAL based control frame wound up too tough for IS tech.
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2,957 out of 4,527 complete.
And as a bonus...the Athena XR!
Type: CV
Size: 3
Move: 6"t
Armor: 8
Structure: 4
Damage: 6/5/0
PV: 14
Specials:
CASE,FC,TUR(2/2/0),TUR(4/4/0),SRCH
Enjoy!
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Weird but fun.
The basic unit is an Un.
One Un is 1 mech, 3 battlearmor, 7 Vees, 1 fighter, or 3 protos.
The next highets is a Trey, which is 3 Un's
A Sept is the highest, 2 Treys and a command Un.
And they used normal clan protos and BA alongside their own designs, making alphastrike stats tougher to get.
I thought a Sept of 'Mechs was 9 'Mechs, is this wrong?
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ProtoMechs aren't used by the IS due to CLANTECH and the need for pilot implants, come the current timeline (3145) that means we don't have a good reason for why the MoC isn't using them
@Alexander Knight, the Athena XR, how does that work out? (Yes I know it's got two turrets, but shouldn't they be combined into a single turret or something?)
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@Alexander Knight, the Athena XR, how does that work out? (Yes I know it's got two turrets, but shouldn't they be combined into a single turret or something?)
It's got two turrets. That means it can shoot a separate target with each one. Hooray Athena XR. ;)
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I thought a Sept of 'Mechs was 9 'Mechs, is this wrong?
You are correct in saying you are wrong. Glitterboy is correct.
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I was kind of sad that the Wobbies didn't make their own protomechs using VDNI as a standin for EI. They could get around the size issues by removing the arms and limbs of their pilots (with sockets to plug in robotic limbs when they're not in the cockpit of course)
2,957 out of 4,527 complete.
And as a bonus...the Athena XR!
Type: CV
Size: 3
Move: 6"t
Armor: 8
Structure: 4
Damage: 6/5/0
PV: 14
Specials:
CASE,FC,TUR(2/2/0),TUR(4/4/0),SRCH
Enjoy!
I like the Athena XR in TW but my goodness that looks like a lot of bang for your points in Alpha Strike.
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gonna play me some Alpha Strike on Friday, expect a battle report with photos soon!
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I like the Athena XR in TW but my goodness that looks like a lot of bang for your points in Alpha Strike.
? I think it's actually very strong:
Damage: 6/5/0
CASE,FC,TUR(2/2/0),TUR(4/4/0),SRCH
It can inflict a lot of damage (12 at Short, 11 at Medium). This seems to be a true war machine. o_o
Is it me or I didn't catch the point?
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? I think it's actually very strong:It can inflict a lot of damage (12 at Short, 11 at Medium). This seems to be a true war machine. o_o
Is it me or I didn't catch the point?
I said that you get a lot for the point cost so I don't know how you interpreted that as me saying it's bad.
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? I think it's actually very strong:It can inflict a lot of damage (12 at Short, 11 at Medium). This seems to be a true war machine. o_o
Is it me or I didn't catch the point?
I am confused. I thought that with the new AS stats everything was already added to the base damage. [Pg. 50, TUR special ability.] (And that you only add damages when converting QS to AS.)
If so, though, the original QS damage line is in the negatives.
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The Athena's normal attack is a composite of it's two turrets, the problem I have with it is that it should really just have the one turret attack, not all three
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@theothersarah
Sorry, I missunderstand "that looks like a lot of bang for your points". My bad. :(
@Von Ether
You're completly right, I'm completly wrong:
Turret (TUR#)
A unit with a turret has some (or all) of its weapons mounted
with a 360-degree field of fire. Damage for all turret-mounted
weapons are included in the base damage values for the unit, and
then separately for the TUR special ability. Thus, when a unit with a
turret wishes to make an attack outside of its normal forward field
of fire, it must use the damage values for its TUR special ability in
place of the unit’s standard damage values.
Weapon attacks made using the turret cannot be combined
with any other special attack ability (such as IF, FLK, and so on).
Some particularly large units—such as mobile structures and
very large or super large vehicles—may feature multiple turrets.
A unit with multiple turrets may use each turret individually to
deliver its attacks (see Exceptionally Large Units, pp. 96-99).
But I don't get it. In the Athena case,t he base attack should be 6/6/0 (TUR4/4/0 + TUR2/2/0). No?
What does that mean?
If the Athena "wishes to make an attack outside of its normal forward field of fire, it must use the damage values for its TUR special ability in place of the unit’s standard damage values."
So if I understand well, it's better for an Athena to fight in rear than in front? o_O You "just" can't get other special abilities. That's bizarre but maybe that's the point.
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2,957 out of 4,527 complete.
Don't let the frustration get to you. [##] Keep up the good fight! You're more than half way there!!
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@theothersarah
Sorry, I missunderstand "that looks like a lot of bang for your points". My bad. :(
@Von Ether
You're completly right, I'm completly wrong:
But I don't get it. In the Athena case,t he base attack should be 6/6/0 (TUR4/4/0 + TUR2/2/0). No?
What does that mean?
If the Athena "wishes to make an attack outside of its normal forward field of fire, it must use the damage values for its TUR special ability in place of the unit’s standard damage values."
So if I understand well, it's better for an Athena to fight in rear than in front? o_O You "just" can't get other special abilities. That's bizarre but maybe that's the point.
Not quite - if I have it correctly, it can make:
- a 6/5/0 attack in the normal forward arc
- a 4/4/0 and a 2/2/0 attack outside that arc (you don't add them, you make each separately)
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The Athena can't make two turret attacks in the same turn can it? That is fire BOTH turrets
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Just want to be sure... AS-7D has damage block of 5/5/1 with LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0 and IF 1 in AS right? So all I have to do is add the special damage values into the damage block on the QS card and I'm good?
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The Athena can't make two turret attacks in the same turn can it? That is fire BOTH turrets
Interesting question. :)
Just want to be sure... AS-7D has damage block of 5/5/1 with LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0 and IF 1 in AS right? So all I have to do is add the special damage values into the damage block on the QS card and I'm good?
From here (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/140/atlas-as7-d) (QS card): AS7-D has damage 2/2/0 and LRM 1/1/1 and AC 2/2/0. So AS damage should be: 5/5/1.
Am I right?
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The Athena can't make two turret attacks in the same turn can it? That is fire BOTH turrets
It can.
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Just want to be sure... AS-7D has damage block of 5/5/1 with LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0 and IF 1 in AS right? So all I have to do is add the special damage values into the damage block on the QS card and I'm good?
In theory, yes. Rounding may give slightly different results from what you're doing, but you'll certainly be within a point of the proper value.
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It can.
That seems a bit silly as it is better for it to fight backwards.
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That seems a bit silly as it is better for it to fight backwards.
I don't see anything that limits the TUR to being used backwards. It says it has 360 field of fire, and if you're firing outside the front arc, you must use the TUR. So if it is in the forward arc, you may use the TUR(s) instead of a standard weapon attack.
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Is Battleforce now dead and if so do we expect to see StratOps re-released with the relevant sections removed?
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Is Battleforce now dead and if so do we expect to see StratOps re-released with the relevant sections removed?
In order: No, and N/A.
Alpha Strike/Quick Strike and Battleforce may share a lot of rules in common, but they are still two distinct games. Alpha Strike is focused at the same individual level as Total War, but sheds a lot of detail in favor of fast gameplay. Battleforce has the same level of detail as Alpha Strike(more in certain cases, less in others), and uses that reduced detail level to focus on much larger games than Total War does.
Now as to wether or not any future SO reprints will omit the Quickstrike section....that's a very good question, one that might not even be answerable even by Herb until he decides that a reprint is needed, and gets such a project going.
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If Strat Ops have to be republished, only QuickStrike rules have to be removed.
To make BattleForce compliant with AS, only the few rules (about damage values mainly) have to be "homogenized".
This way, BF and AS could share similar rules (only about conversion actually).
I don't think it's relevant to spend more time on Strat Ops now. Push AS first seems more important. [drool]
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Agreed. Besides, it's not like QS/BF is the section of StratOps you should be paying the most attention to... O:-)
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Agreed. Besides, it's not like QS/BF is the section of StratOps you should be paying the most attention to... O:-)
Yeah! The Aerospace Abstract is...
Oh wait! It's in AS too! >:D
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Agreed. Besides, it's not like QS/BF is the section of StratOps you should be paying the most attention to... O:-)
IO is going to have its very own Weirdo chapter isn't it.
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IO is going to have its very own Weirdo chapter isn't it.
Followed by a chapter labeled
"Fine here's your (Censored) Succession Wars sized game rules." Which I'll take as a chapter for folks like me who have been screaming for decent rules since ISiF.
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? I think it's actually very strong:It can inflict a lot of damage (12 at Short, 11 at Medium). This seems to be a true war machine. o_o
Actually no. The Athena XR can do one of two things each turn.
1.) Make a single attack using a 6/5/0 damage profile
2.) Make an attack with a 4/4/0 damage profile and an attack with a 2/2/0 profile.
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Just want to be sure... AS-7D has damage block of 5/5/1 with LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0 and IF 1 in AS right? So all I have to do is add the special damage values into the damage block on the QS card and I'm good?
Actually, the AS7-D has a 5/5/2 damage profile. The LRM special rounds normally, base damage rounds up. So 12 is 1 LRM damage, but 2 normal damage.
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Interesting how the rounding works, making it slightly more powerful when splitting fire.
Is this Athena allowed to fire both turrets at a target in the front arc, or it it required to make a standard attack in such a circumstance?
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Interesting how the rounding works, making it slightly more powerful when splitting fire.
Is this Athena allowed to fire both turrets at a target in the front arc, or it it required to make a standard attack in such a circumstance?
The turrets are listed as 360 field of fire.
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So...the only reason to use the Athena's standard attack is if you want to break a tough aero unit's damage threshold?
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It's also the thing I don't understand. Is there any true advantage to use the 6/5/0 damage instead of two 360deg attacks or 4/4/0 and 2/2/0?
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When shooting aero units, larger damage clumps are usually better, so you can more easily beat the damage threshold and score crits. That 2pt turret can certainly threshold most fighters, and the 4pt one can probably crit almost all of them(and several shuttles), but if you can get a 6-pt smack into someone, you can start looking at thresholding DropShips.
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It's also the thing I don't understand. Is there any true advantage to use the 6/5/0 damage instead of two 360deg attacks or 4/4/0 and 2/2/0?
Well, making two attacks you can miss with one...
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If it's got 5 structure left, go ahead and kill it rather than two chances at wounding it?
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When shooting aero units, larger damage clumps are usually better, so you can more easily beat the damage threshold and score crits. That 2pt turret can certainly threshold most fighters, and the 4pt one can probably crit almost all of them(and several shuttles), but if you can get a 6-pt smack into someone, you can start looking at thresholding DropShips.
Does it strike any one else as odd that this is exactly the opposite way Aero works in the regular game, where any amount of damage is preferable and volume of small hits will take down any fighter?
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Does it strike any one else as odd that this is exactly the opposite way Aero works in the regular game, where any amount of damage is preferable and volume of small hits will take down any fighter?
Fighters in Alpha Strike almost all have a threshold of 1. It's the dropships that will have a higher threshold and therefore need more damage. Against the fighters, the multiple turrets is a bonus. Against dropships, you want to clump so that you get enough to beat their threshold.
The Athena XR could do either.
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Does it strike any one else as odd that this is exactly the opposite way Aero works in the regular game, where any amount of damage is preferable and volume of small hits will take down any fighter?
Since AlphaStrike units have no individual locations and there's no real way to "crit-seek", these sorts of alterations via abstraction are inevitable.
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Since AlphaStrike units have no individual locations and there's no real way to "crit-seek", these sorts of alterations via abstraction are inevitable.
Well if it has a lot of structure, you can "crit-seek" in the sense of trying to get multiple rolls on the critical hits table.
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Large amounts of damage are great for certain kills or putting the hurt on slow but well armored units. Things like Dire Wolves and Atlases tend to die rather quick once you can toss a couple of five and six point hits on them.
Conversely if you can pull off multiple shots on high defense ground units then it's usually advantageous to do so. Due to the way defense works it's not unusual for light units to have a +6 to hit even at close range but they usually tend to have 2-5 points of combined damage before they're gone for good.
It's also useful to do multiple shots on aero units as all fighters take a crit when they take two more more pointss of damage. I've lost more fighters to rolls of 2 and 12 than I have to anything else.
FInally it's worth noting that the campaign rules in the core book make no distinction over whether a unit was destroyed by losing it's last point of structure or hit so hard that it has several points worth of 'overkill' beyond what it needed to die. So there's no disadvantage to blasting a unit with six points when it only takes one. BUt if you have two attacks you could choose to off an almost dead unit, and then turn your attentions to another.
Though really this isn't a huge issue as there are only a handful of units with two turrets who would end up getting the capacity to make that many attacks.
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Well if it has a lot of structure, you can "crit-seek" in the sense of trying to get multiple rolls on the critical hits table.
Yeah, when I played Alpha Strike on the weekend I was choosing my attack declarations to maximize the number of crits - big hits first to get rid of the armour and smaller hits when the target is opened up. It didn't always work due to random chance, but when it did it worked well. The Alpha Strike critical hit table is nasty.
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In order: No, and N/A.
Alpha Strike/Quick Strike and Battleforce may share a lot of rules in common, but they are still two distinct games. Alpha Strike is focused at the same individual level as Total War, but sheds a lot of detail in favor of fast gameplay. Battleforce has the same level of detail as Alpha Strike(more in certain cases, less in others), and uses that reduced detail level to focus on much larger games than Total War does.
Now as to wether or not any future SO reprints will omit the Quickstrike section....that's a very good question, one that might not even be answerable even by Herb until he decides that a reprint is needed, and gets such a project going.
Thanks, just trying to get my head around how all this works and what fits where. I have to be able to explain it to teenagers ;)
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Played a company on company match against Clansittingducks today. The only reason it took more than two hours was because we had to look up everything as we wanted to tryout as many things as we could. A few lessons learned; don't DFA an Assassin, don't get into melee with an Archer with a Spider, don't jump a Wolverine into close range with an Atlas and a Thunderbolt and always, always watch your back arc O:-)
The game was fast and brutal with a small canyon that became a scrap yard for half a company being the peak of the violent clash.
Much fun was had O0
It was quite scrum when our command lances slammed into each other. Knowing now that the AS7-D does more damage than what we had, I think that fight would have ended differently... or at least with more bodies scattered around that canyon.
For the most part I am happy to see 3025 tech loadouts really hold their own. Hopefully another game will be had this friday
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1,492 designs remaining.
And let's see....I've already given a battle armor and a tank. What's next?
Oh! How about some foot soldiers? Introducing the Comstar/WoB Motorized (Laser) Level I!
Name: Motorized Level I (Laser) (x2)
Type: CI
Size: 1
Move: 6"m
Armor: 3
Structure: 1
Damage: 1/1/0
Point Value: 1
Specials: AM,CAR4
Yes, the (x2) in the name means you get 2 units for the point value listed.
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As in two sub-platoons, each using these published stats?
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As in two sub-platoons, each using these published stats?
That is correct, sir!
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1,492 designs remaining.
[notworthy] You're a beast sir.
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guess that is one way to handle the low BV of infantry. it also makes me wonder how many platoons of basic Foot with Rifles you can get for a single point. i've been considering grabbing some of the GHQ Combat commands as a way of cheaply representing planetary militia.
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guess that is one way to handle the low BV of infantry.
Actually, it's because the BV is for the entire 36-monkey platoon, but you can only deploy 18 of the banana-munchers in one unit.
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Looking forward to the Marian platoons. O0
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Actually, it's because the BV is for the entire 36-monkey platoon, but you can only deploy 18 of the banana-munchers in one unit.
why the 18 limit?
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why the 18 limit?
There's not a limit of 18, rather one of 30 and as C* uses 36 man platoons they get chopped in half, the Marians as they use 100-man platoons have them chopped into quarters
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What SCC said. Any platoon with more than 30 men in total must be split into sub-platoons of equal size. So the C*/WoB 36-man platoons become two 18-man subplatoons. The sub-platoons are treated exactly like regular infantry platoons, to the point that the only thing keeping sub-platoons together is their name, and the fact that TROs and record sheets tend to provide BV values for the platoon as a whole. There's no requirement that the subs operate together.
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Are there going to be converted stats for generic 28-man rifle/laser/etc. infantry?
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Are there going to be converted stats for generic 28-man rifle/laser/etc. infantry?
Why yes, yes there are.
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I suspect the existing Quick-Strike stats will be entirely usable:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1144/foot-platoon-laser
Name: Foot Platoon (Laser)
Size: 1
Move: 2"f (converted from 1f)
Armor: 2
Structure: 1
Damage: 1/1/0
Point Value: 1
Specials: AM, CAR3
or
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1144/foot-platoon-rifle
Name: Foot Platoon (Laser)
Size: 1
Move: 2"f (converted from 1f)
Armor: 2
Structure: 1
Damage: 1/0/0
Point Value: 1
Specials: AM, CAR3
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What's meant by Laser in this context? Are we talking Rifle, Energy or a platoon using laser support weapons?
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Oh, I had looked at the existing infantry but I had failed to pick out the generics among all of the special units. Thanks!
Edit: Hell they're all there - everything from TW. Not sure how I screwed up my own search so badly
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What's meant by Laser in this context? Are we talking Rifle, Energy or a platoon using laser support weapons?
Given that the MUL link points to the TW-generic platoon, we're talking about Rifle, Energy. Do remember that some of the Generic platoons cannot actually be reproduced using Tech Manual, and I'm not sure if this is one of them.
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Interesting how the rounding works, making it slightly more powerful when splitting fire.
Is this Athena allowed to fire both turrets at a target in the front arc, or it it required to make a standard attack in such a circumstance?
The rules are a little vague, but the intent of the rules definitely comes across as "use standard attack values unless you can't (i.e. target is outside your main firing arc), in which case, switch to the turret."
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we can actually split fire in Alpha Strike? :o
I've been missing something in the book then.
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The rules are a little vague, but the intent of the rules definitely comes across as "use standard attack values unless you can't (i.e. target is outside your main firing arc), in which case, switch to the turret."
Yes, this is what I had understood. But this way you can't "choose" what you want to do:
- If you can: Use default attack (which is not interesting in the case of Athena at medium range 6/5/0).
- If you can't: Use special attack (2 attacks: Tur4/4/0 and Tur2/2/0)
But as I said, it's more interesting to "can't" in the case of Athena and medium range.
A little strange.
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Given that the MUL link points to the TW-generic platoon, we're talking about Rifle, Energy. Do remember that some of the Generic platoons cannot actually be reproduced using Tech Manual, and I'm not sure if this is one of them.
Don't be too sure of that. The Rifle (Ballistic), Rifle (Energy), and MG platoons have all been recreated in a TRO.
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I think it might actually be one or more of the 'heavy weapons' platoons that doesn't work, the MG, SRM, or LRM ones.
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Out of curiosity, are there any non-BA infantry that cost more than 1 point in AS?
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we can actually split fire in Alpha Strike? :o
I've been missing something in the book then.
I think this is one of very few cases where it is possible because of the unit's particular construction
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Out of curiosity, are there any non-BA infantry that cost more than 1 point in AS?
If you can find an infantry platoon with a BV of 150 or higher, then yes, and you're looking at them.
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If you can find an infantry platoon with a BV of 150 or higher, then yes, and you're looking at them.
Yep, just a few.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit?Name=&HasBFAbility=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=150&MaxBV=2000&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&SubTypes=31&SubTypes=32&SubTypes=33&SubTypes=34&SubTypes=35&SubTypes=36&SubTypes=37&SubTypes=38&SubTypes=39&BookAuto=
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Nice!
We Marians are such cheaters, piling in extra men to boost our BV. :)
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That marian platoon is what, 5 sub-units of 20?
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5 of 20, 4 of 25, it's up to you. The rules are actually quite flexible on this.
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Nice!
We Marians are such cheaters, piling in extra men to boost our BV. :)
Hmm. What they need to do is use cheaper infantry, so you can get extra units for less BV.
Ie. More than 1 AS unit for a total of 1 Point...
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1,443 units left.
And because Weirdo begged...Marian Ceremonial Guards!
Name: Marian Ceremonial Guard (x4)
Type: CI
Size: 1
Move: 2"f
Armor: 4
Structure: 1
Damage: 1/0/0
PV: 4
Specials:
CAR3
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1,443 units left.
{>{> Keep it up!!! The free samples are nice too.
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{>{> Keep it up!!! The free samples are nice too.
Yeah! It's cool to see AS stats for cool units! :D
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hmm.. i wonder if any company actually makes 6mm roman centurions..
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hmm.. i wonder if any company actually makes 6mm roman centurions..
check Rapier Miniatures and Baccus 6mm.
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1,443 units left.
And because Weirdo begged...
Wonder what the CHH Heavy Jump Infantry look like.........?
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Wonder what the CHH Heavy Jump Infantry look like.........?
Nice try. 8)
1,379 left and.....
Introducing the BNC-11X Banshee from XTRO Steiner!
Name: Banshee BNC-11X
Type: BM
Size: 4
Move: 4"
Armor: 12
Structure: 5
Damage: 3/4/1
PV: 20
Specials:
ARM
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Twelve armor :D
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Also ignores the first crit.
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Dumb question, but other than the MUL, is there a list of all stats? (ie: the back of BattleForce 2)
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Not at this time. That would be a.......large list.
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Yeah it would... but BattleForce 2 didn't have a plethora of units to worry about at the time the list was created.
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1,311 remaining
This time let's go to the other end of the tech spectrum. The CN9-H Centurion from XTRO: Retrotech!
Name: Centurion CN9-H
Type: BM
Size: 2
Move: 8"
Armor: 3
Structure: 4
Damage: 2/2/1
PV: 9
Specials:
FLK(1/1/1)
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1,311 remaining
This time let's go to the other end of the tech spectrum. The CN9-H Centurion from XTRO: Retrotech!
you are doing the conventional intantry from TRO 3085 too? and will the infantry covered in Total Warfare be converted too?
EDIT: yes, you will do! just saw the first post on last page :D
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1,242 remaining.
Ever wanted to just blow something into component parts? Here's your chance with the HildCo PLG-4X Pillager!
Name: Pillager PLG-4X
Type: BM
Size: 4
Move: 6"
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: -/-/-
PV: 19
Specials:
AMS,ARTLTC-2
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I'm really looking forward to some Long Tom Cannons in Alpha Strike.
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1,145 remaining.
And from XTRO: Periphery we have....
Name: Atlas (Jurn) AS7-00
Type: BM
Size: 4
Move: 6"
Armor: 10
Structure: 4
Damage: 4/4/3
PV: 21
Specials:
ARM,CASE,IF1,MHQ1,PRB,RCN,RSD2
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Fighters in Alpha Strike almost all have a threshold of 1. It's the dropships that will have a higher threshold and therefore need more damage. Against the fighters, the multiple turrets is a bonus. Against dropships, you want to clump so that you get enough to beat their threshold.
The Athena XR could do either.
I've checked the rules on this and run some numbers, if a ASF has a BF/AS armor value of at least 11 it will have a threshold of 2 or more. To get that much armor you need 315 points minimum in CBT, a 40-ton fighter has a maximum of 320 so in theory most fighters should actually be able to carry enough armor to have a threshold of 2, barring an errata to the armor conversion rules
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Realization: In Alpha Strike, infantry units can shoot in the same turn as they offload from an APC. Also, APCs with sufficient Move can offload multiple infantry units per turn, with the only limitations being the geographic realities of base contact. (In hex play, this would equate to putting one infantry unit in each adjacent hex.) If you drop these infantry off behind a unit that has already moved, they'll apply the Rear Damage bonus to each attack. Some infantry or battlesuit units can do a lot of damage all by themselves. I think I need to look into a point or three of Cardinals, or some other transport that can carry Fire Ironholds... >:D
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I've checked the rules on this and run some numbers, if a ASF has a BF/AS armor value of at least 11 it will have a threshold of 2 or more. To get that much armor you need 315 points minimum in CBT, a 40-ton fighter has a maximum of 320 so in theory most fighters should actually be able to carry enough armor to have a threshold of 2, barring an errata to the armor conversion rules
Bear in mind that the 315 points of armor represents nearly twenty tons devoted to armor. For a 40 ton fighter, that's more than any designer is willing to allocate.
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The CGL Facebook page has another Alpha Strike Unit Card up!
A Raymond ....something.... BattleMaster!
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Realization: In Alpha Strike, infantry units can shoot in the same turn as they offload from an APC. Also, APCs with sufficient Move can offload multiple infantry units per turn, with the only limitations being the geographic realities of base contact. (In hex play, this would equate to putting one infantry unit in each adjacent hex.) If you drop these infantry off behind a unit that has already moved, they'll apply the Rear Damage bonus to each attack. Some infantry or battlesuit units can do a lot of damage all by themselves. I think I need to look into a point or three of Cardinals, or some other transport that can carry Fire Ironholds... >:D
I'm tempted to delete this post, if only to prevent my friend who plays a lot of airmobile infantry from noticing it...
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So photo confirmation of Alpha Strike rulebook and Alpha Strike Unit Cards for sale at GenCon. *whew* The rulebook apparently arrived this morning.. (source: CGL facebook/twitter feed)
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Can't wait for my copy. Pre-ordered the hell out of it!
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Bear in mind that the 315 points of armor represents nearly twenty tons devoted to armor. For a 40 ton fighter, that's more than any designer is willing to allocate.
I was trying to find the smallest possible size for a unit to be able to carry enough armor, not necessarily the point at which they will
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The CGL Facebook page has another Alpha Strike Unit Card up!
A Raymond ....something.... BattleMaster!
Everybody Loves Battlemaster.
I think I need to look into a point or three of Cardinals, or some other transport that can carry Fire Ironholds... >:D
"Oh, it's just a TonbOH MY GOD"
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"Oh, it's just a TonbOH MY GOD"
Mission accepted! 8)
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Mission accepted! 8)
Maybe I shouldn't have leaked the Ironhold stats to Weirdo....?
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Maybe I shouldn't have leaked the Ironhold stats to Weirdo....?
He would have found them out, he's sneaky like that.
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Why don't rocket launchers have a separate (one shot) damage value?
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Because BF/QS/AS has no one-shot weapons aside from aero bombs. Therefore, all OS weapons are averaged in with the normal ones. It does make RL-heavy units work very differently at this scale than in TW, but the sustained damage value is usually still decent.
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Seeing some Alpha Strike at GenCon via CGL and other FB posts today
The CGL demo pic
http://ow.ly/i/2T10S
From the Adventure Game Store pic: Are people getting a lance each to play. That might be a quick demo.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151567380662479&set=a.10151567379437479.1073741846.41856492478&type=1&theater
Anyone on the floor have any comments?
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Question: How are the Axman AXM-6X and AXM-6T, Quickdraw QKD-8X and QKD-8P and Kuma 3 handled in QuickStrike?
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Question: How are the Axman AXM-6X and AXM-6T, Quickdraw QKD-8X and QKD-8P and Kuma 3 handled in QuickStrike?
The Kuma 3?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha.
Hand held weapons, just like improvised clubs, are not represented in stats.
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Seeing some Alpha Strike at GenCon via CGL and other FB posts today
The CGL demo pic
http://ow.ly/i/2T10S
From the Adventure Game Store pic: Are people getting a lance each to play. That might be a quick demo.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151567380662479&set=a.10151567379437479.1073741846.41856492478&type=1&theater
Anyone on the floor have any comments?
The first photo is the booth demo of Alpha in the exhibit hall
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Hand held weapons, just like improvised clubs, are not represented in stats.
So many units gained so much in the transition to AS, I guess it's only fair that some units should get the short end of the stick. Given the insanely large number of things that went from mediocre or "useless"* to decent threats or downright scary, seeing the number of notable downgrades be low enough to count them on one hand seems like a good bargain to me.
*Other peoples' words, not mine. Remember, I'm in the camp that ANYTHING can be useful, if you're imaginative enough.
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So many units gained so much in the transition to AS, I guess it's only fair that some units should get the short end of the stick. Given the insanely large number of things that went from mediocre or "useless"* to decent threats or downright scary, seeing the number of notable downgrades be low enough to count them on one hand seems like a good bargain to me.
Well, the biiiig problem with handheld weapons is....they're a nearly infinite combination of possible weapons that can be used by the vast majority of 'mechs. That in and of itself is something akin to "giving stats for mixed ProtoMech Points". The other problem of course is that using handheld weapons means you can't use arm or torso guns, which means your damage values need to be recalculated.
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Yeah, I prefectly agree with that decision. Heck, even if you wanted to make an AS card for a canon 'mech with a single canon handheld, the damage stats would be insane. You'd have to decide how often the handheld would be used instead of the onboard guns, and combine their damage stats accordingly, resulting in a serious downgrade to both. And of course, the actual handheld/onboard usage ration would likely be different for every handheld... #P
Better to leave them out here, lest Herb decide that the better approach would be to keep everything consistent across the rulesets, but declare noncanon every product with a handheld in it. ;)
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Yeah, I prefectly agree with that decision. Heck, even if you wanted to make an AS card for a canon 'mech with a single canon handheld, the damage stats would be insane. You'd have to decide how often the handheld would be used instead of the onboard guns, and combine their damage stats accordingly, resulting in a serious downgrade to both. And of course, the actual handheld/onboard usage ration would likely be different for every handheld... #P
Better to leave them out here, lest Herb decide that the better approach would be to keep everything consistent across the rulesets, but declare noncanon every product with a handheld in it. ;)
If the handheld is a card played on top of the normal stat card that replaces it's normal attack stats it would become easier
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Might be better to just do two or three versions of the mech with the most commonly favored hand weapons.
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But it cannot replace the normal stats. As an example, both the Axman and Quickdraw production models you refer to mount weaponry in locations not blocked by the handhelds, so they'd have to have all-new cards that factor in those existing guns. In addition, the extra armor mounted by many handhelds means that armor values would also have to be recalculated, since some might get lost in the rounding process of some 'mechs but would push other 'mechs over the edge to gain another armor point.
Might be better to just do two or three versions of the mech with the most commonly favored hand weapons.
Which ones would be the most commonly favored? Some players might favor different handhelds. (For example, I promise that were I to play a Lyran force, I'll find a way to use that Fluid Gun handheld, while other players might ignore it.) And which 'mechs would get those cards? After all, any 'mech with sufficient strength and hands can use a handheld, not just the ones they're associated with in the TROs.
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I actually like the card idea. If a weapon or two is subsumed by the versatility (and, in the Charger's case at the very least) potential upgrade in damage, it might be the price to pay for streamlined application. I certainly wouldn't mind it. I think trying to encompass every bit of the handheld weapon is grasping at far too many straws, much like trying to encompass every bit of TW is obviously not what AS was attempting.
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If someone else wants to try and venture into the madness of handhelds, feel free. It won't be me.
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But it cannot replace the normal stats. As an example, both the Axman and Quickdraw production models you refer to mount weaponry in locations not blocked by the handhelds, so they'd have to have all-new cards that factor in those existing guns. In addition, the extra armor mounted by many handhelds means that armor values would also have to be recalculated, since some might get lost in the rounding process of some 'mechs but would push other 'mechs over the edge to gain another armor point.
It's either lost in the higher abstraction or there's a separate attacks listing for those attacks that aren't blocked by the handheld, I didn't mention that option earlier because I thought it belonged in the fan rules part of the forum
Which ones would be the most commonly favored? Some players might favor different handhelds. (For example, I promise that were I to play a Lyran force, I'll find a way to use that Fluid Gun handheld, while other players might ignore it.) And which 'mechs would get those cards? After all, any 'mech with sufficient strength and hands can use a handheld, not just the ones they're associated with in the TROs.
Well first they'd have to have an effect at the AS/BF level, which Fluid Guns don't than it's simply a matter of winnowing the number down a set of unique handhelds
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If someone else wants to try and venture into the madness of handhelds, feel free. It won't be me.
They don't come out to well, here's my attempt to do stats for them: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32275.0.html
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If someone else wants to try and venture into the madness of handhelds, feel free. It won't be me.
I don't care much for handhelds. However, I do feel that rocket launchers should have a separate "one shot" attack value (kind of like the LRM ability).
Rocket Launcher Base Damage Values (S/M/L):
Rocket Launcher 10 (4/3/2)
Rocket Launcher 15 (7/5/-)
Rocket Launcher 20 (9/7/-)
JM6-H would look like this:
DMG: 2/2/1
RL: 4/3/-
^ add base damage values per launcher modified by heat
Also, for game balance, the heat generated could be 1/2 the damage value (round up) of short range IF you decide to add it to the regular damage value. So if the JM6-H fires everything at once it overheats 2.
Just my two cents.
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Here is how I'd like to run a demo of AS, in a perfect world. ;D
I'd take two Intro boxes and have two full companies (24 figs a piece). I'd hope for 6 players and give them 2 lances a piece. For demo purposes, I'd ideally like at a mech or three that had OV, OVL, CASE and/or ENE to showcase how special abilities add spice to the game.
It would also be great if all of these lances where in close point values of each other (about 60 pt each), but I doubt that would happen.
I'd print the charts on cardstock and offer them as freebies for the players to take home.
Any comments or suggestions?
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If someone else wants to try and venture into the madness of handhelds, feel free. It won't be me.
They should call the next supplement that includes all those extra rules something that logically follows
an Alpha Strike...I am thinking "Shutdown!" or "Ammo Explosion!" or maybe even "Oh dear gods! I can
still shoot, but I can't move or hit the broadside of a barn, and the enemy is still alive and only 3 hexes
from me!"
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If someone else wants to try and venture into the madness of handhelds, feel free. It won't be me.
No way. The one I did for the Kuma was more than enough, thank yew yerra much.
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Realization: In Alpha Strike, infantry units can shoot in the same turn as they offload from an APC. Also, APCs with sufficient Move can offload multiple infantry units per turn, with the only limitations being the geographic realities of base contact. (In hex play, this would equate to putting one infantry unit in each adjacent hex.) If you drop these infantry off behind a unit that has already moved, they'll apply the Rear Damage bonus to each attack. Some infantry or battlesuit units can do a lot of damage all by themselves. I think I need to look into a point or three of Cardinals, or some other transport that can carry Fire Ironholds... >:D
Now my Anhurs will be realized. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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I would think an eventual card flip model would work (compliments of playing Duke a couple of times). Just include a single use (or twice) only mechanism on the one side.
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So has anything changed in the conversion rules to make TW units for AS/QS/BF?
Because I could have sworn that artillery cannons contributed to a unit's regular damage line in SO, yet the Pillager anvil has no damage code at all. Plus Skunkwerks gives it a 3/4/4 for some weird reason...which is probably a bug.
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So has anything changed in the conversion rules to make TW units for AS/QS/BF?
Yes, there were a number of tweaks. The bigget one that stands out in my head is that alternate ammo weapon types like LRM, SRM, AC etc. are now factored into the main value and subtracted out if used for non-standard damage, instead of starting separate and being added in.
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Because I could have sworn that artillery cannons contributed to a unit's regular damage line in SO, yet the Pillager anvil has no damage code at all. Plus Skunkwerks gives it a 3/4/4 for some weird reason...which is probably a bug.
Sorry. Artillery Cannons are represented by a special. Notice the Pillager Anvil's "ARTLTC-2" special.
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Sorry. Artillery Cannons are represented by a special. Notice the Pillager Anvil's "ARTLTC-2" special.
page 378 of Strategic ops lists the artillery cannons as providing damage at short, medium, and long range with the Long Tom's doing a respectable amount in the latter two. That would seem to give the Anvil a damage value besides its special abilities even though those are the only weapons it mounted.
So that's why I was curious because as it's written the Pillager Anvil that was posted in this thread seems to have the wrong stats unless I'm missing a rule or there's been an update to the conversion system that handles this interesting loophole.
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The conversion system is in the middle of being updated(as are the cards on the MUL), to go along with Alpha Strike. I imagine the necessary errata will be posted as soon as it's done.
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Von,
Your intro session ideas sound good. Would it be a battle against all the players/last man standing? Or would you set up all one on one games?
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I played a couple of into games of AS today. I think I'll stick to the regular game...
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Von,
Your intro session ideas sound good. Would it be a battle against all the players/last man standing? Or would you set up all one on one games?
One on One. I'd also go step by step for the first turn. I was also thinking of highlighting special abilities in two different colors. One for crit-effects and the other for damage related stuff.
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page 378 of Strategic ops lists the artillery cannons as providing damage at short, medium, and long range with the Long Tom's doing a respectable amount in the latter two.
Mm. Well, I could say that's because artillery cannons on aerospace fighters are treated as big honking autocannons....
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Except that's the chart for converting damage from Battletech to Battleforce, not the individual weapons range chart from the advanced aerospace chapter.
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I played a couple of into games of AS today. I think I'll stick to the regular game...
Would you be willing to elaborate as to why you didn't like AS?
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Except that's the chart for converting damage from Battletech to Battleforce, not the individual weapons range chart from the advanced aerospace chapter.
Correct. It's the chart for converting a long tom cannon mounted on an ASF to Battleforce damage....
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Could you provide a page reference stating that is all that chart is for? It's listed as Weapon Conversion Table- Artillery and the only other charts on that page are for battle armor. The table for naval weapons is a separate chart on a separate page, and I am not finding anything in the conversion rules regarding it being a single unit chart. Working off of the corrected second printing as well and there is nothing in the errata about it.
Or is this one of those things that will be changed once there's some official errata released that I currently do not have access to?
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Page 360: "Record each type of artillery separately". Artillery is not included in a unit's base damage. Artillery Cannons, when mounted on ASF, are not Artillery.
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Page 360: "Record each type of artillery separately". Artillery is not included in a unit's base damage. Artillery Cannons, when mounted on ASF, are not Artillery.
Does that apply in AlphaStrike but? I know the calculation rules for the base attack were changed to be inclusive instead of exclusive
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Page 360: "Record each type of artillery separately". Artillery is not included in a unit's base damage. Artillery Cannons, when mounted on ASF, are not Artillery.
Normal artillery also has a regular damage value in that chart. Granted it's a damage of 0 but it's still there. The rule on page 360 seems to be for figuring out the appropriate special abilities to give a unit equipped with weapons listed under the ART ability, and says nothing about aerospace fighters using different rules from regular ground units. E.G if a unit mounts multiple Arrow IVs it will need to be give the ability code for both to show it can fire more than one. Or if a unit mounted both a Arrow IV and a Long tom it would need two different abilities. There is nothing mentioned in those rules to indicate that only fighters should reference that chart.
So I'm sorry to be a nuisance but I'm afraid I'm not seeing where my book is saying to do what you are indicating I should do. Again, unless I'm missing a very vital sentence somewhere that would read "Only use damage from chart X when converting damage for unit type Y".
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Actually no. Standard artillery has a damage value of "N/A" on that chart. Also notice that chart has a note on it "see Artillery, p. 285".
Going to the Artillery section starting on p. 285 we find an artillery chart on p. 287. Notice that the damage given for the Long Tom Cannon does not match what the chart on p. 378 says. Therefore, the chart on p. 378 is not for units that use Artillery.
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Going to demo AS tomorrow at a LGS in my area. One of the owners is interested in carrying BT stuff now that AS is out. Any advice on how large a force I should bring? I want to do a quick (approximately one hour) match that shows off the game without getting too complicated in the hopes that he'll see the mixture of nuanced strategy and quick gameplay AS offers. I'm going to try to make cards tonight, we'll see how that goes.
Wish me luck.
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Would you be willing to elaborate as to why you didn't like AS?
A lot of rules (especially movement) seemed over simplified. The games I played and watched seemed to come down to a lot of luck if I'm honest. I mean all of a mechs attacks are made in one roll so if you miss that's it. Played against a direwolf - did very badly through no fault of the player.
It just seemed to me that the player with the most mechs won because they had more dice to roll.
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Actually no. Standard artillery has a damage value of "N/A" on that chart. Also notice that chart has a note on it "see Artillery, p. 285".
Going to the Artillery section starting on p. 285 we find an artillery chart on p. 287. Notice that the damage given for the Long Tom Cannon does not match what the chart on p. 378 says. Therefore, the chart on p. 378 is not for units that use Artillery.
So there is nothing explicitly stated in any version of the rule book that the chart in question is not meant to be used in the normal damage conversion process outside of one specific unit type? It's all left up to the reader's interpretation and knowledge of a related but seperate rule set?
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If you want an official answer, there is a rules question forum where you can get those. If you think something is missing or is unclear from the rules as written, ask there.
Edit: I'm away from the books, PDF or otherwise, this weekend but I think you have a point that artillery cannon conversion could use a clarification in there. But this thread isn't the way to go about getting that clarification.
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A lot of rules (especially movement) seemed over simplified. The games I played and watched seemed to come down to a lot of luck if I'm honest. I mean all of a mechs attacks are made in one roll so if you miss that's it. Played against a direwolf - did very badly through no fault of the player.
It just seemed to me that the player with the most mechs won because they had more dice to roll.
Hmm... most games tend to be this way to one degree or another (Warmahordes and 40k come to mind... sure they have ways to get more rolls, but essentially every model has one attack (or sometimes two) partially for speed and partially for simplification.)
I also think going against a Clan assault or top-of-the-line heavy is a bad way to start off with AS as those things can sometimes one-shot a smaller 'mech without breaking a sweat. That said, AS won't be for everyone and thats fine. We have multiple ways to play in the universe.
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So there is nothing explicitly stated in any version of the rule book that the chart in question is not meant to be used in the normal damage conversion process outside of one specific unit type? It's all left up to the reader's interpretation and knowledge of a related but seperate rule set?
nothing aside from the point-blank declaration under "Base Damage" on page 360 that states:
Artillery Weapons: Record each type of artillery separately (see Artillery, page 285).
That right there says you do not combine Artillery with other weapons to calculate base damage.
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Yes you keep referencing that part. However you also said that the damage values given for the artillery cannons was only for use by aerospace fighters, a rule I can't locate. So I'll have to ask that you forgive my seemingly thick headed confusion on the matter.
Further checking the rules on page 285 and 345 shows no exceptions being made for aerospace units in regards to actually firing artillery. But that latter portion is obviously not part of a discussion dealing with Alpha Strike and so I shall not pursue it further here.
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What i beleive he is saying is artillery cannons are artillery on ground units and not artillery on aerospace. This is not defined in the conversion rules, but by the ground and aerospace rules saying artillery cannons operate differently on ground and in aerospace.
So therefore the rule that artillery cannons count separately means artillery cannons are sometimes (on ground units) artillery and separate and sometimes (on aerospace) not artillery and therefore counted in base.
The rules that artillery act differently on aerospace and ground is not in SO.
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Going to demo AS tomorrow at a LGS in my area. One of the owners is interested in carrying BT stuff now that AS is out. Any advice on how large a force I should bring? I want to do a quick (approximately one hour) match that shows off the game without getting too complicated in the hopes that he'll see the mixture of nuanced strategy and quick gameplay AS offers. I'm going to try to make cards tonight, we'll see how that goes.
Wish me luck.
Good luck and let's us know how it goes. I don't know enough about the game to give advice yet. For a quick demo a lance would good for each person - though I suppose it depends how many of the special rules you're including.
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A lot of rules (especially movement) seemed over simplified. The games I played and watched seemed to come down to a lot of luck if I'm honest. I mean all of a mechs attacks are made in one roll so if you miss that's it. Played against a direwolf - did very badly through no fault of the player.
It just seemed to me that the player with the most mechs won because they had more dice to roll.
How many mechs did you and the other player get to use? Did you get to use any special abilities?
From the times I've gotten to play AS, the math to hit mechs was almost identical so it still seemed like a game of position and maneuvering. But if you have only one or two mechs to run, that's a very short game.
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I would suggest 8-12 'mechs per side. I ran lance on lance games when QS first came out, and while it was interesting, I thought the demo games came down even harder on the "well, I hit you this turn so I pretty much auto-win while you didn't hit me back, too bad!"
Though I guess a decent mix of 'mechs might make for interesting speed games at lance on lance. Maybe a light, two mediums and a heavy per side?
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I would suggest 8-12 'mechs per side. I ran lance on lance games when QS first came out, and while it was interesting, I thought the demo games came down even harder on the "well, I hit you this turn so I pretty much auto-win while you didn't hit me back, too bad!"
Though I guess a decent mix of 'mechs might make for interesting speed games at lance on lance. Maybe a light, two mediums and a heavy per side?
Cool, that agrees with my gut instinct. I really only want to run a demo with a lance pair (bi-lance? 2/3 company?). It might seem great to get 12 people in with a lance a piece, but I don't see how that would do the game justice.
In my upcoming demo, I'll ask for BT vets to bring certain mech figs combos, though that might also set up some expectations, and pull out my figs for newbies.
Regardless, I'll wait until the MUL is updated so I can peruse all the alternatives before choosing my load outs. On that note, I'll be happy to discuss what the perfect "demo" picks will be when AS hits the MUL.
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What i beleive he is saying is artillery cannons are artillery on ground units and not artillery on aerospace. This is not defined in the conversion rules, but by the ground and aerospace rules saying artillery cannons operate differently on ground and in aerospace.
So therefore the rule that artillery cannons count separately means artillery cannons are sometimes (on ground units) artillery and separate and sometimes (on aerospace) not artillery and therefore counted in base.
The rules that artillery act differently on aerospace and ground is not in SO.
This is the main thread for AlphaStrike, I think he's talking about Artillery Cannons on AeroSpace assets in that context, which would be different than normal
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Cool, that agrees with my gut instinct. I really only want to run a demo with a lance pair (bi-lance? 2/3 company?). It might seem great to get 12 people in with a lance a piece, but I don't see how that would do the game justice.
In my upcoming demo, I'll ask for BT vets to bring certain mech figs combos, though that might also set up some expectations, and pull out my figs for newbies.
Regardless, I'll wait until the MUL is updated so I can peruse all the alternatives before choosing my load outs. On that note, I'll be happy to discuss what the perfect "demo" picks will be when AS hits the MUL.
I was using intro-box set miniatures for my lance set ups and the lance with an Atlas stomped because the Atlas stomped. It had weaker 'mechs in it, but it's armor and internals was the biggest force modifier. The other guy might combine fire, but miss with one or two and the Atlas would get into range, strip all the armor off of one of the other guys mediums or heavies, and the other "weak" mechs in the Atlas lance would combine to drop the 'mech. Thats why I suggested a light, two mediums and a heavy :) I guess a Zeus wouldn't be too bad either since it's just an oversized heavy!
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ACtually my original question was if they were going to update the conversion rules in SO since I noticed the Pillager anvil card shown earlier lacked a damage value. Since the chart for weapons in SO lists artillery cannones as providing a damage value it confused me, since the BF rules make no references to other books in regards to who gets to fire what and when thus leaving anyone unfamiliar with their use in TW play to make some assumptions such as I did.
In this case the assumption is if a weapon has a damage value listed it should be added onto the others for conversion purposes. This seems to not be the case however, but the way it was explained didn't seem to make it through to me. Especially since SO usually will reference the other core books when it wishes you to use a rule from regular play instead of one specifically for the battle force rule set.
In hindsigh I should have posted this in the rules question part of the forum as it did drift off topic because of me.
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Such a nice book, going thru it now.
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How many mechs did you and the other player get to use? Did you get to use any special abilities?
From the times I've gotten to play AS, the math to hit mechs was almost identical so it still seemed like a game of position and maneuvering. But if you have only one or two mechs to run, that's a very short game.
We (Inner Sphere) had ten and our clan opponent had five. Other games we played were roughly six versus six. We used mechs with special abilities.
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So, I have to ask, where's the countdown at present? I was really enjoying those daily updates on how many units were left to update
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ACtually my original question was if they were going to update the conversion rules in SO
Yes.
The SO BF conversion errata should be going up soon (today, tomorrow, a week or two?). There's still only one set of stats for both Alpha Strike and BattleForce. The changes were being prepared for BattleForce, Alpha Strike just needed to go to print before we were done converting all the units and the errata was being held till we were at least close to being done.
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Groovy. Hopefully it'll save some of the denser people such as myself from suffering from excessive head-desk syndrome.
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So, I have to ask, where's the countdown at present? I was really enjoying those daily updates on how many units were left to update
Well, since you asked....
4,109 / 4,626 checked.
And for the Clanners, a true unholy terror of the battlefield. The Svartalfa Point!
Name: Svartalfa
Type: PM
Size: 1
Movement: 2"/8"g
Armor: 11
Structure: 5
Damage: 12/11/-
PV: 27
Specials:
Something that dangerous demands the Spheroids be given something to counter it, yes?
Name: T-IT-N14R Grand Titan "Vengeance"
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 6"/2"j
Armor: 18
Structure: 8
Damage: 2/2/-
Overheat: 0
PV: 22
Specials:
ARM,ARTT-1,CASE,CR
Enjoy!
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Well, since you asked....
4,109 / 4,626 checked.
Enjoy!
8) Nice! Almost at the Finish Line!!!
So will the update be announced on the blog? On this thread?
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Those Svartalfa, is that for the whole point is a single unit or what?
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That is for a Point of 5 Svartalfa. They're actually less of a threat that way, thanks to rounding.
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EIGHTEEN armor on that Vengeance?! :o
By the Three Bs, that thing's tough enough to be worth taking into combat even without the nukes. It'll be chucking Thumper rounds at you forever!
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That's what happens when you pile on the Hardened Armor. 8)
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EIGHTEEN armor on that Vengeance?! :o
By the Three Bs, that thing's tough enough to be worth taking into combat even without the nukes. It'll be chucking Thumper rounds at you forever!
Oh, I'd also like to point out it's Crit Resistant, and even when you DO get a crit, it ignores the first one, and then has CASE for if/when it takes an ammo explosion crit.
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Wow if the vengeance got 18 points I wonder if the Great Turtle will manage an even higher value. Which would be good as it's my personal ride in my group's QS game. ^_^
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Wow if the vengeance got 18 points I wonder if the Great Turtle will manage an even higher value. Which would be good as it's my personal ride in my group's QS game. ^_^
Name: GTR-1 Great Turtle
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 4"/6"j
Armor: 22
Structure: 8
Damage: 3/3/-
Overheat: 1
PV: 30
Specials:
CR,ENE
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Very nice. It's even more bunkerriffic than the current BF version on the MUL. ^^
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Randall on twitter
"Yes, we're pricing out full print runs of all [Alpha Strike] cards right now."
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Well, since you asked....
4,109 / 4,626 checked.
Wowza, thanks!
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Randall on twitter
"Yes, we're pricing out full print runs of all [Alpha Strike] cards right now."
Must not squeal like giddy kid, must not...oh who the heck am I kidding?!
SQUEEEEEEEEE!
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Randall on twitter
"Yes, we're pricing out full print runs of all [Alpha Strike] cards right now."
COOL>>> O0 :D
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Randall on twitter
"Yes, we're pricing out full print runs of all [Alpha Strike] cards right now."
Good.
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Good.
Agreed - this is nice to see, especially since they're already showing up on eBay for ridiculous amounts (and claims that they were GenCon exclusives...).
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Agreed - this is nice to see, especially since they're already showing up on eBay for ridiculous amounts (and claims that they were GenCon exclusives...).
That particular set might be.
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That particular set might be.
Fair point. Out of curiosity, do we have any information on this, i.e., that there/this was a GenCon exclusive set?
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Good.
Great.
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Randall on twitter
"Yes, we're pricing out full print runs of all [Alpha Strike] cards right now."
[drool] Take my money. All of it. :D O0
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Fair point. Out of curiosity, do we have any information on this, i.e., that there/this was a GenCon exclusive set?
My impression was "Yes ...Holy Spit! Those sold like we were printing money. Let's rethink this."
I'd rather they sell a companion set for the Intro Box. The AS book plus the box is a great deal compared to other big company mini games.
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Agreed - this is nice to see, especially since they're already showing up on eBay for ridiculous amounts (and claims that they were GenCon exclusives...).
I have only seen one up, with the Alpha Strike book itself...
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Von - good one - a set of cards for the intro box set. These minis will be the only ones I use for a while.
Do we need to start emailing the office to have the ail our pre-order books?
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4,214 / 4,638 checked.
And someone couldn't let the Black Hawk Prime have all the fun
Name: Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 6
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 8"/2"j
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: 8/8/-
Overheat: 4
PV: 30
Specials:
ENE
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4,214 / 4,638 checked.
{>{> You're my hero!!
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So according to this FAQ thread, AS hex play has a more costly movement system.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,31733.0.html (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,31733.0.html)
What may cost you 2 hexs of movement in TW might go up to 4 if you play AS on a map. At first, I got sticker shock, but then remembered that you pay NO movement costs for changing facing. Which might balance out.
Then again, this gives faster and jumpier mechs another edge against lumbering Size 4 behemoths.
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4,214 / 4,638 checked.
And someone couldn't let the Black Hawk Prime have all the fun
Name: Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 6
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 8"/2"j
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: 8/8/-
Overheat: 4
PV: 30
Specials:
ENE
Eurgh, that really highlights what I think is wrong with how Battleforce/Alpha Strike converts jump MP.
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Well, given that we're removing Running/Flank/Overthrust as options, only makes sense to reduce Jump if it can't match basic Walk.
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What would have been wrong with converting it as 1 jump MP = 2 inches? How come the SDR-5V gets 2 inches per jet but the JR7-D only gets 1.2 inches per jet?
Edit: And that poor, poor Stone Rhino 6 only gets 1 inch per jet.
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4,214 / 4,638 checked.
And someone couldn't let the Black Hawk Prime have all the fun
Name: Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 6
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 8"/2"j
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: 8/8/-
Overheat: 4
PV: 30
Specials:
ENE
Since your teasing us may I ask if you did the Lu Wei Bing yet?
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How do targeting computers factor into the conversion? Do they increase the attack value, or get lost in the transition?
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I believe they increase the attack value.
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Pulse, targeting computers, LBX cluster to-hit bonus, MRM to-hit penalty, etc are all modifiers to damage for conversion.
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Randall on twitter
"Yes, we're pricing out full print runs of all [Alpha Strike] cards right now."
I will buy cards as fast as you can print them. Please take my money.
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Same for me take my money now! [drool]
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I picked up the Alpha Strike rules at Gencon. Looks to be a really fun version of the Battletech game. This looks like something that you could actually have tourneys with or more organized play. What does everyone think the point total ahould be for a typical game (obviously you can play whatever you want, but I just wanted to get a round bout number to tailor a company too). The book examples seemed to be around 160 ish.
160 seems pretty good to me, it forces you to play a variety of weight classes and still allows you to field the big mechs too.
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What would have been wrong with converting it as 1 jump MP = 2 inches? How come the SDR-5V gets 2 inches per jet but the JR7-D only gets 1.2 inches per jet?
Because the JR7-D should be able to run 22" on flat terrain but only jump 10".
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I asked a person at the Catalyst booth at gencon and they did say that the card set from Gencon was exclusive to Gencon. But it was only really there to get an idea of the popularity of Alpha Strike (it obviously did very well).
That does not mean that those cards won't be re-produced in the future. The cards may change, but I doubt that the versions of those mechs would be exclusive to that release. Save your money and wait for them to release and in the mean time print them out form the Master rules website.
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Because the JR7-D should be able to run 22" on flat terrain but only jump 10".
And yet it only gets to jump to 6".
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I don't know if point totals for a typical game will matter as much as numbers of units. And of course, comfort will vary from person to person. After playing a bastardized version of these rules recently, I can confidently say I'd find running a company pretty easy, two companies would be fine although turns would be longer, and battalion level really raises the complexity to an area reserved for experienced players only.
If you plan to demo this to new players however, you can't go wrong with lance on lance battles (which is what they did at GenCon) as they're quick and dirty. Once someone understands the basics, start increasing the number of units.
Armies built for a specific point total have the potential to get really interesting. I look forward to seeing CGL do some AS tourneys, and seeing the unusual armies that players come up with.
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i plan to carry over the same scheme as my regualr battletech games. units get made in multiples of 50 points. so 50, 100, 150, and 200. this makes it easier to put together forces ahead of time with the option of tacking on another force if the scenario expand. (in regular Btech games, i tried to make forces in multiples of 5000bv..)
thus far i've put together a post-jihad Davion militia company and a Liao post-jihad demi-company of two frontline lances (mostly stealth armor units, which cost more, thus only 2 lances instead of a full company.) the two should be fairly evenly matched.. the Davions have numbers but less capable mechs, while the Liao's have stealth and pretty good armor/firepower per unit likewise the Liaos have some LRM indirect fire and scouting units, both of which are easier to use in AS. the latter gives the Liao's some init bonuses and hidden unit options too
and i have enough figures left over i should be able to put together a few 50pt generic lances to bulk these out if needed. i plan to be buying some vehicle forces (since in AS vee's are easier to use) as well, which should also make good 50pt units to boost a side.
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I asked them about how long a game would last. They mentioned that a company vs company level would last about 45minutes to an hour (depending on player knowledge of the game). I think that if you keep to a company scale or a binary for clanners (in competitive play) that would fit to a tourney format pretty well. Point scale at that point would be the issue.
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And yet it only gets to jump to 6".
Because it doesn't get to run 22".
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Alex, are the new 3145 designs going to be converted eventually as well? I'd check but for some reason the MUL is blocked from my work computer. :'(
-Gunz
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Absolutely.
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Because it doesn't get to run 22".
That doesn't make a bit of sense. The Spider should be running 24 inches and jumping 16 inches. It only gets to walk 16 inches in Alpha Strike but it still jumps 16 inches.
The Jenner should be able to run 22 inches and jump 10 inches. It only gets to walk 14 inches in Alpha Strike but its jumping gets reduced to 6 inches completely arbitrarily.
As I said, this is the difference between 2 inches per jet and 1.2 inches per jet. It happens for no mechanical reason. If the Jenner suffers a loss of jump distance because of its reduced land movement then shouldn't the Spider have a proportionate reduction in jump MP as well? (It would have 9.6 inches rounded to 10 inches of jump if it suffered the same proportionate loss as the Jenner)
Alpha Strike is fantastic, but this is something that should have been addressed when revising the conversion process. I suppose whoever came up with it during the original development of StratOps BattleForce thought that it would be simpler to only have two situations during conversion (full jump MP vs partial jump MP, without regard for the actual number of jets) but it hurts a bunch of mechs unnecessarily. In theory it could also help a mech, giving it more jump distance than it deserves if it has a very small number of jets compared to its walk movement. While I don't think any canon mechs are in that situation such a thing shouldn't be able to happen in any case and is another reason why this should be fixed.
Edit: Also, since Alpha Strike doesn't have its own point system, the Spider gives you the full point value of its jets while the Jenner makes you spend points for jump MP that you don't get after conversion to Alpha Strike.
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Units may only use their walk MP in in AS/QS/BF, not their run, which is why if their Jump is less then their walk it gets cut back
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Units may only use their walk MP in in AS/QS/BF, not their run, which is why if their Jump is less then their walk it gets cut back
So why doesn't it cut the jump of units with full jump MP as well? Jump MP was never, ever affected by the presence or lack of a run movement mode in any context in any system ever. I don't see why this particular rule should be only selectively applied.
I've played Alpha Strike, I understand that there's no walk or run, just a generic land movement mode. But I don't understand why my Drac company's Spider gets its full 16 inches of jump but my Jenner loses 4 inches of jump.
If you're going to reduce jump movement then it should be across the board with the same proportions, not some jacked up situation where a Spider gets 2 inches per jet, the Jenner gets 1.2 inches per jet, and that Stone Rhino 6 gets 1 inch per jet. That doesn't make any sense.
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Any indication on when the print book might ship to those of us who pre-ordered?
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Not an official statement, just a personal observation - it's too soon after GenCon to expect anything coherent out of the crew who travelled to Indiannapolis. End of the month is about right ;)
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Not an official statement, just a personal observation - it's too soon after GenCon to expect anything coherent out of the crew who travelled to Indiannapolis. End of the month is about right ;)
Wait...you expect something coherent? :D Tho the alpha strike cards look nice so i'm hoping to find some at my local shop sooner than later.
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I've played Alpha Strike, I understand that there's no walk or run, just a generic land movement mode. But I don't understand why my Drac company's Spider gets its full 16 inches of jump but my Jenner loses 4 inches of jump.
Because full jump was considered equal to a 'mech's Run speed. Let's take the Jenner. at 11 hexes, he gets a +4 movement mod. If he jumped 7 hexes, he'd also get a +4 movement mod.
Same thing applies to 6/9, 5/8, 4/6, 3/5.....
But less-than-full isn't considered equal, so it gets hit with the same reduction that ground speed does. (Walk is about 66% of Run).
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That's in the StratOps conversion rules, correct?
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Because full jump was considered equal to a 'mech's Run speed. Let's take the Jenner. at 11 hexes, he gets a +4 movement mod. If he jumped 7 hexes, he'd also get a +4 movement mod.
Same thing applies to 6/9, 5/8, 4/6, 3/5.....
But less-than-full isn't considered equal, so it gets hit with the same reduction that ground speed does. (Walk is about 66% of Run).
This still makes no sense. First off, Jenners can't jump 7 hexes anyway, they jump five. Second, the main crux of the issue here is that the jump jets on a Jenner are arbitrarily and explicitly worse than those on a Spider, ton for ton, crit for crit, jet for jet. That's the issue here.
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Because full jump was considered equal to a 'mech's Run speed.
...
(Walk is about 66% of Run).
After conversion to Alpha Strike...
A Spider has 100% of its jump.
A Mist Lynx has 66% of its jump.
A Jenner has 60% of its jump.
A Stone Rhino 6 has 50% of its jump.
Why are these values not all 66%?
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That's in the StratOps conversion rules, correct?
The jump jet conversion? Yes.
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This still makes no sense. First off, Jenners can't jump 7 hexes anyway, they jump five. Second, the main crux of the issue here is that the jump jets on a Jenner are arbitrarily and explicitly worse than those on a Spider, ton for ton, crit for crit, jet for jet. That's the issue here.
okay fine. I'll try this again.
A 7/11/7 machine in Battletech can get a maximum movement mod of +4 by either running or jumping.
A 7/11/5 machine in Battletech can only get a +4 mod by running, but only a +3 by jumping.
So we go to AS, where there is no "running" statistic. The 7/11/7 machine is a 7j because the two movement modes are functionally equal.
Now we take the 7/11/5 machine. Well, if we make is a 7/5j, that means the jumping is now functionally equal, and that's wrong. So we reduce the maximum jump by the same degree we reduced the maximum ground speed.
I admit, this is only my interpretation, since I wasn't the one who came up with it. But I support it.
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4,302 / 4,643 checked.
And because someone begged. Special advance screening of...
Lu
Wei
Bing!
Name: LN-4B Lu Wei Bing
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 8"j
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: 3/3/2
Overheat: 0
PV: 20
Specials:
AECM,ARM,CASEII,FLK(1/1/-)
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After conversion to Alpha Strike...
A Spider has 100% of its jump.
A Mist Lynx has 66% of its jump.
A Jenner has 60% of its jump.
A Stone Rhino 6 has 50% of its jump.
Why are these values not all 66%?
Because movement is measured in full inches, it's an industry standard and will probably continue to be used forever, just because it's easier to work with so if a unit gets a move that is not measured in multiple inches as a result of the conversion it has to be rounded
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Because movement is measured in full inches, it's an industry standard and will probably continue to be used forever, just because it's easier to work with so if a unit gets a move that is not measured in multiple inches as a result of the conversion it has to be rounded
What we're talking about has nothing to do with any of those things. Also this discussion has been moved by moderators to its own thread in Ground Combat just in case you'd like to actually read what we're saying and discuss it.
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Not an official statement, just a personal observation - it's too soon after GenCon to expect anything coherent out of the crew who travelled to Indiannapolis. End of the month is about right ;)
Having been to GenCon as a player....this is 100% correct! And then, the poor guys are doing PAX next week...
If we are lucky...they won't fall into a coma.
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4,302 / 4,643 checked.
And because someone begged. Special advance screening of...
Lu
Wei
Bing!
Name: LN-4B Lu Wei Bing
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 8"j
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: 3/3/2
Overheat: 0
PV: 20
Specials:
AECM,ARM,CASEII,FLK(1/1/-)
Great Cat that is one tough 'Mech!
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I just wonder, is it impossible to convert BT stats to AS using a script or something similar? If no: Why?
Thanks in advance! :)
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4,302 / 4,643 checked.
And because someone begged. Special advance screening of...
Lu
Wei
Bing!
Name: LN-4B Lu Wei Bing
Type: BM
Size: 4
Movement: 8"j
Armor: 9
Structure: 5
Damage: 3/3/2
Overheat: 0
PV: 20
Specials:
AECM,ARM,CASEII,FLK(1/1/-)
It's sexy even in Alpha Strike!
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I just wonder, is it impossible to convert BT stats to AS using a script or something similar? If no: Why?
Thanks in advance! :)
MicroSquish
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I just wonder, is it impossible to convert BT stats to AS using a script or something similar? If no: Why?
Thanks in advance! :)
I'm sure a spreadsheet macro wouldn't be tough, but you still would have to manually input the raw data.
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I'm sure a spreadsheet macro wouldn't be tough, but you still would have to manually input the raw data.
And then don't you still have to have three verifications of the same numbers via long hand?
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And then don't you still have to have three verifications of the same numbers via long hand?
I'm sure there is an after the calculation QC function considering all the tribulations with BV2.
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I just wonder, is it impossible to convert BT stats to AS using a script or something similar? If no: Why?
Thanks in advance! :)
To have any real time savings, the script/program would have to be able to read and interpret pdfs as well as TRO entries.
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I wrote an Excel spreadsheet and macro to read and convert megamek files. That was done back near the beginning of the year? Alexander Knight has been finding all the errors with those results, and adding missing units, since then.
Issues like:
1) sometimes I just plain made a formula error.
2) sometimes we disagree on an interpretation of the rule and have to hash it out
3) sometimes we get an outside source asking us to make a change (to enable some 3145 tech for example)
4) most of the time it's the many different ways megamek can store the same data. For example, one whole TR's worth might have (R) next to a weapon in the weapon list. I write the formula to look for that, and then find out none of the other files have it there. Or cargo was only 1 listing per ton of cargo, an later they changed it to 1 cargo listing can have selectable cargo tonnage in one listing.
I'd rather not guess how accurate my initial list was, but having another check was not merely a good idea.
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Having been to GenCon as a player....this is 100% correct! And then, the poor guys are doing PAX next week...
If we are lucky...they won't fall into a coma.
They have support, fortunately! O0
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@Alexander Knight and @nckestrel
Ok I realize how much pain it could be. And as you actually need to check everything anyway do it manually in the best way I guess. :)
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the MUL hasn't been loading for me today. is the update in progress?
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the MUL hasn't been loading for me today. is the update in progress?
me neither :(
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The update wouldn't cause the server to be down. There's an issue, it's WIP.
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the MUL hasn't been loading for me today. is the update in progress?
Skyhigh had out a note on the front page about the ISP or hosting service changing IP addresses in him this weekend. It needs some TW to update where the servers are now.
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DNS settings need to propagate. It affects the MUL, CSO, and the Demo Agents sites. It was announced on Wednesday or Thursday.
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Yep, MUL and CSO are both down for me. I hadn't seen any kind of announcement, but then again I'm bad at seeing that sort of thing.
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I'm sure there is an after the calculation QC function considering all the tribulations with BV2.
It was called manual checking. BV2 most often is calculated in the following way:
1- Unit is made using MML. BV is recorded
2- Unit is entered into one of our many spreadsheet programs (we have several for different kinds of units)
3- If 1 and 2 agree, we stamp it "gold"
4- If they don't agree, we run it manually and look at both MML and the sheets for errors
5- We random sample completed lists of units with hand checking to see if we still screwed up.
That's for most units. Some units require more intensive work.
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Any update on the conversion count?
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Also, is there a way to put multiple mul Quick Strike cards onto a single page, in order to prepare for a game scenario or in my case, a convention?
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Also, is there a way to put multiple mul Quick Strike cards onto a single page, in order to prepare for a game scenario or in my case, a convention?
I took screenshots and then copypastaed the images onto a single text document and printed them. Crude, but effective.
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Exactly that. Copy, paste the image into a document, and you can then resize them all until the desired number fit on a single page.
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Exactly that. Copy, paste the image into a document, and you can then resize them all until the desired number fit on a single page.
I'm pretty sure that SQP (Solaris QuickStrike Printer) is designed to do this
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First I've heard of this. Part of or similar to SSW, I presume?
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First I've heard of this. Part of or similar to SSW, I presume?
Part of the SSW suite, yes. Obviously the data it uses hasn't been updated yet for the AlphaStrike rules and unfortunately I don't use it myself but poking around in it indicates it may take some work to get right
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Any update on the conversion count?
4,533 completed out of 4,659
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4,533 completed out of 4,659
[applause] Home stretch run! Bring her home!
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4,533 completed out of 4,659
[notworthy]
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4,533 completed out of 4,659
Pardon my ignorance, but when I went into MU to look at a random sample of the AS cards and stats, they all seemed to still say quick strike and had things like special attack damage value (AC, LRM) not included in the base value, which I believe is supposed to be the case for AS.
Are all the conversions being done and then some sort of update on the website will revise everything all at once?
Just wondering as I am a bit confused.
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Pardon my ignorance, but when I went into MU to look at a random sample of the AS cards and stats, they all seemed to still say quick strike and had things like special attack damage value (AC, LRM) not included in the base value, which I believe is supposed to be the case for AS.
Are all the conversions being done and then some sort of update on the website will revise everything all at once?
Just wondering as I am a bit confused.
That is correct. There will be a mass update when everything is finished.
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Totally awesome. I am reading over the AS rules right now so s/b finished and ready to play by the time the update is done.
Thanks for your hard work and for responding.
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4,533 completed out of 4,659
You are a prince.
Even if you do sport the avatar of a mutated Victor. :D
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You are a prince.
Even if you do sport the avatar of a mutated Victor. :D
Are you making fun of my baby? ;)
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Are you making fun of my baby? ;)
If the Tau Ceti Rangers Lancers hadn't switched to lights and mediums I'd be all over IWM for a mini of that monster. As it stands I'm getting my heavy metal fix from the Lyran Commonwealth now.
It's still the best Victor ever...
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Exactly that. Copy, paste the image into a document, and you can then resize them all until the desired number fit on a single page.
Forgive my ignorance, but when I do this I get the background image but not the stats. How do I capture all of it with "copy".
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Use the Printscreen Function of the computer. Then do some minor editing.
That's how I did it.
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Yeah, screen shot :)
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Thirded. Screenshot the page, use MS Paint or something else to trim down to the border of the card, then paste it into a document. Takes a little bit of time, but I do it every time I'm building an AS force.
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On a random note, is there a mistake with the Scimitar LRM Variant? I'm assuming it isn't meant to be a stationary 7 point turret.
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On a random note, is there a mistake with the Scimitar LRM Variant? I'm assuming it isn't meant to be a stationary 7 point turret.
Yes.
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Hey, the MUL conversion has to be pretty close to being done, right? O:-)
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On a random note, is there a mistake with the Scimitar LRM Variant? I'm assuming it isn't meant to be a stationary 7 point turret.
Name: Scimitar Medium Hover Tank (Missile)
Type: CV
Size: 1
Move: 16"h
Armor: 3
Structure: 2
Damage: 1 / 2 / 1
Point Value: 7
Specials:
IF1,TUR(1/2/1, IF1),SRCH
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Ah, busy I see. :)
If we want to use the QS sheets from the MUL, are the Special Abilities for each unit the same?
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Ah, busy I see. :)
If we want to use the QS sheets from the MUL, are the Special Abilities for each unit the same?
Probably. Say...90% chance.
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About the only one that might be different might be OVL, since I don't think that was present in the original conversion rules.
I'd ask for some hints as to what qualifies a unit for OVL, but I think I should actually find out what qualifies something for OV first.
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About the only one that might be different might be OVL, since I don't think that was present in the original conversion rules.
I'd ask for some hints as to what qualifies a unit for OVL, but I think I should actually find out what qualifies something for OV first.
It has to be able to overheat, using just long range weapons, enough to lower it's long range damage.
No surprise that a Loki (or two) has OVL.
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Remarkably simple. I like it!
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Slightly off topic, but this promised MUL update, will it fix the broken CSS layout that gets presented to mobile devices? Currently the search page is truly horrendous.
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Slightly off topic, but this promised MUL update, will it fix the broken CSS layout that gets presented to mobile devices? Currently the search page is truly horrendous.
Not my department. I'm not the code monkey.
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Slightly off topic, but this promised MUL update, will it fix the broken CSS layout that gets presented to mobile devices? Currently the search page is truly horrendous.
We're talking about a data update only.
Requests for MUL website functionality/fixes should go in the MUL thread where Skyhigh will see it.
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I wrote an Excel spreadsheet and macro to read and convert megamek files. That was done back near the beginning of the year? Alexander Knight has been finding all the errors with those results, and adding missing units, since then.
You could have just contacted us MM developers :(. MM already did spitout Quickstrike stats, and it wouldn't have been that much of an adjustment to spit out AS stats, too.
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You could have just contacted us MM developers :(. MM already did spitout Quickstrike stats, and it wouldn't have been that much of an adjustment to spit out AS stats, too.
if you can get MMLab to do Alpha Strike stats, i'd be happy. i'd have the option of fielding my Hellbringer Coyote (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,19809.0.html) config and other custom units i've developed over the years.
(though any idea when iATM's will be added to MMLab's weapons options?)
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You could have just contacted us MM developers :(. MM already did spitout Quickstrike stats, and it wouldn't have been that much of an adjustment to spit out AS stats, too.
A.) Any stats would have been pre-errata
B.) I'm still finding and adding units to the list that were in TROs or plot books, but not in the files he pulled from MM.
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4,533 completed out of 4,659
Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet [whipit]
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Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet [whipit]
;D
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Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet [whipit]
No! Don't raise his ire, I don't want him to turn this around and go back home...
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A.) Any stats would have been pre-errata
B.) I'm still finding and adding units to the list that were in TROs or plot books, but not in the files he pulled from MM.
I'm pretty sure that MM has some sort of Moratorium for new books so it wouldn't surprise me that some units weren't in it as well as any units that it didn't support yet
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Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet [whipit]
TRO 3145 units are currently being checked.
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[copper]
Please note: This discussion has been moved to the brand spanking new Alpha Strike section of the forums.
Welcome to the new home of Alpha Strike!
/ [copper]
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Ooh shiny.
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Echo! Echo! Echo! Echo! Echo! Echo!
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Question- any idea when AS/whatever cards will be up for DropShips and WarShips? Pryde Rock has some up, but there are a ton of holes. It throws a monkey wrench into things for those of us who'd prefer not to fire hundreds of individual weapons to employ WarShips...
(and no, I'm not crazy enough to attempt to convert the damn things myself)
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Question- any idea when AS/whatever cards will be up for DropShips and WarShips? Pryde Rock has some up, but there are a ton of holes. It throws a monkey wrench into things for those of us who'd prefer not to fire hundreds of individual weapons to employ WarShips...
(and no, I'm not crazy enough to attempt to convert the damn things myself)
well when they are ready.. the last thing I have read they were going threw the 3145 units.. so it should be too much longer...
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Question- any idea when AS/whatever cards will be up for DropShips and WarShips? Pryde Rock has some up, but there are a ton of holes. It throws a monkey wrench into things for those of us who'd prefer not to fire hundreds of individual weapons to employ WarShips...
That is a very good question, and one I wish I could give an accurate answer to.
(and no, I'm not crazy enough to attempt to convert the damn things myself)
Few people are.
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i would imagine dropships and warships would need an "alpha strike space" supplement.. wait, better not call it that, the Initials might cause issues. ::)
something that would let you run air and space battles using something other than the abstract system in the main alpha strike book.
though i still wish we had an real "aerospace on the table" ruleset. i know that with the hexes to inches conversion the tables would need to be huge, but it would still be nice to have the option. and given how the distances are largely arbitrary anyway, arbitrarily reducing the distances covered could easily be used to make it viable on smaller maps. (perhaps it could be married to a to hit penalty or something, fluffed as evasive maneuvering or something..)
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Concerning cards, are the QS introbox cards compatible with Alphastrike ?
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/miniature%20heroes%20and%20villains/P6170294_zps2a41a643.jpg)
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Mostly
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Pretty much. The main thing you need to remember is that the LRM, SRM, and AC special weapon traits need to be added into base damage on the Quickstrike cards, while they're already factored into the Alpha Strike ones.
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also that due to how the special damage is rounded compared to total damage, the current quickstrike stats might vary slightly from the dedicated Alpha Strike cards for the same unit..
the changes are supposed to apply to battleforce and quickstrike as well, Errata is just still being worked on. though the MUL is in the process of being updated.. they are waiting for all the units revised stats to be completed so they can update in one swoop, rather than confuse people with doing a few at a time.
(not a dev, but this is like the 12th time the question has been asked in this thread. ;) it is a pretty long thread, so i can understand why people don't read the whole thing to look for answers. )
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That is a very good question, and one I wish I could give an accurate answer to.
Few people are.
Err...update on that. Using PRI's WarShip cards as a base (http://www.pryderockindustries.com/dl_game_aids.php); I came up with my best effort at a Newgrange-class' record sheet. Seeing as IWM doesn't make a Newgrange (it would have to be huge to be even remotely to-scale), I'll have to make my own (already did a Naga SDS control ship). That will be time-consuming, but I've got over a pound of polymer material to work with.
Why am I going through with this? Here's a hint- Erinyes appears to be unaccounted for.
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Pretty much. The main thing you need to remember is that the LRM, SRM, and AC special weapon traits need to be added into base damage on the Quickstrike cards, while they're already factored into the Alpha Strike ones.
Actually looking at the examples in StratOps they appear to already be factored into the base attacks
Of course the StartOps examples also appear to be rounding up for things special abilities instead of down, for instance the JORMUNGAND-CLASS BLUEWATER CRUISER's 3rd turret which contains 2 LRM-20 is: Turret 3 (IF3) 2/3/3 when instead is should be something like Turret 3: (LRM 1/2/2 IF2)
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Thanks O0
COncerning MUL update, I hope it will be more printer friendly in the future, as I explained here :
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,30463.msg706921.html#msg706921
Especially the fact it would be cool to be able to save the card file in SVG or PDF format to edit it if necessary, since it's not as the same format (or explain me how to) of the current QS introbox cards pdf.
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Five thousand and forty-nine AS stat blocks now ready for upload to the MUL.
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Five thousand and forty-nine AS stat blocks now ready for upload to the MUL.
[applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause]
Whoot!
Watching for the upload in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... [watch]
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Wow! Thank you! My printer is ready }:)lp
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The upload will take some work too, and I'm on vacation today...
(Spending it with family, not uploading Alpha Strike, sorry. But it's coming "soon".)
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Thanks Alexander. That had to be tedious work. O0
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Thanks Alexander. That had to be tedious work. O0
Well, it's not like they were dropships or jump...
<whimper>
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OK. Weird Question but if someone wanted to use the old Quickstrike cards are they going to be left around somewhere so they can be accessed or will they be gone forever. Just a thought before they are expunged.
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They will not be on the MUL.
It will be awhile before the PDF products are updated, and whatever you have already (Solaris Quick Strike Printer, Medron's PRI site cards, etc) until/unless they update those.
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[applause] [rockon] [cheers] [notworthy]
Cool! It won't be long now...
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The upload will take some work too, and I'm on vacation today...
(Spending it with family, not uploading Alpha Strike, sorry. But it's coming "soon".)
Well-deservedly, after that O0 O0
Will we probably see it uploaded by sometime this weekend??
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They will not be on the MUL.
It will be awhile before the PDF products are updated, and whatever you have already (Solaris Quick Strike Printer, Medron's PRI site cards, etc) until/unless they update those.
Those other sources won't produce AS compatible stats/cards until after StratOps gets errata updating the conversation process
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Actually looking at the examples in StratOps they appear to already be factored into the base attacks
Of course the StartOps examples also appear to be rounding up for things special abilities instead of down, for instance the JORMUNGAND-CLASS BLUEWATER CRUISER's 3rd turret which contains 2 LRM-20 is: Turret 3 (IF3) 2/3/3 when instead is should be something like Turret 3: (LRM 1/2/2 IF2)
It's best illustrated by a simple example: the SRM Carrier. (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3030/srm-carrier-standard) S/M/L damage rating of 0/0/0, special ability SRM 6/6.
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Five thousand and forty-nine AS stat blocks now ready for upload to the MUL.
Means that I'll have to re-print news card to replace my ubber cool QS ones ? ;D ;D
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/140/atlas-as7-d
Why look at that!
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so update is going live?
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It's in progress.
4000 or so uploaded today.
But still have about 1000 to go and updating the card image (and showing the unit type data on it).
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It's in progress.
4000 or so uploaded today.
But still have about 1000 to go and updating the card image (and showing the unit type data on it).
WOO!!! Looks like some of the important ones... (For me...) are updated.
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Thank you. O0
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Whoot! :D
So the cards still have the QS designation for a while? Just curious more than anything else.
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I must be missing something about the convertion rules, why the CPLT-C1 have the LRM special ability and the TBT-5N doesn't have it?
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I must be missing something about the convertion rules, why the CPLT-C1 have the LRM special ability and the TBT-5N doesn't have it?
combination of insufficient ammunition and heat. The TBT-5N doesn't do enough heat-adjusted LRM damage at Medium range to qualify.
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Is the "Quick Strike" designation going to change in the bottom left corner? Other than that, sweet! :)
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combination of insufficient ammunition and heat. The TBT-5N doesn't do enough heat-adjusted LRM damage at Medium range to qualify.
thank you for the clarification
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Is CASEII showing up as CASE or am I mistaken?
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Is CASEII showing up as CASE or am I mistaken?
Which designs are you seeing this in?
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Which designs are you seeing this in?
HBK-7R (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4338/hunchback-hbk-7r) is where I first noticed it.
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HBK-7R (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4338/hunchback-hbk-7r) is where I first noticed it.
the problem with updating 5,000+ units is that when someone changes how something works and doesn't rub your nose in it, you can overlook checking for it. Report it to the errata thread. Sigh.
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the problem with updating 5,000+ units is that when someone changes how something works and doesn't rub your nose in it, you can overlook checking for it. Report it to the errata thread. Sigh.
Please tell me that this update was a single database somewhere, and not 5000 individual files. #P
I miss that MUL pdf that was released ages ago...
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Any word on the Hive-series drone ASFs?
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/140/atlas-as7-d
Why look at that!
Yes, it's really diferent from the ones I already printed. I guess I have to reprint them. The good thing is that since I'll have to remake all the cards one by one (instead of using the quickstrike introbox cards), I will not have any problem of card format compatibility between it and MUL :D
thanks
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Is the "Quick Strike" designation going to change in the bottom left corner? Other than that, sweet! :)
I was curious about this as well from the standpoint of knowing which ones were updated.
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I was curious about this as well from the standpoint of knowing which ones were updated.
The data was cleared before updating. So if it has data now, it's new.
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Why is the Anubis 4C 2 points cheaper than the 3L when the only stat that is different is that the 4C has a 2 (instead of 1) for short range damage?
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Why is the Anubis 4C 2 points cheaper than the 3L when the only stat that is different is that the 4C has a 2 (instead of 1) for short range damage?
PV is Battle Value/100. Since Battle Value is based on BattleTech stats, there are things that don't reflect in the Alpha Strike stats.
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Because it's BV is that much higher (or lower depending on which way you are looking at it?) To get the AS/BF point value, you divide the BV by a 100 and round. Some units lose some of their worth in the conversion while others become much better than they have ever been in TW.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/140/atlas-as7-d
Why look at that!
Ah the classic, I approve 8)
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Wow, the Vengeance has so much armor, it's overflowing onto the art! ;D
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:o
Whaaaa...?
You'll need nukes to take that down, ironically enough I think it can lob a few.
The Mars tank scares me in this scale.
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:o
Whaaaa...?
You'll need nukes to take that down, ironically enough I think it can lob a few.
The Mars tank scares me in this scale.
The Riever 700b - Clear Skies Ahead Boss!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692)
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Clear Skies Ahead Boss!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692)
And, the Vengeance can launch 30 of those.....think about it....
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Clear Skies Ahead Boss!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692)
HOLEEE PANTS! :o
I think it's been WAY too long since I fielded a Riever.
And, the Vengeance can launch 30 of those.....think about it....
Forty, assuming you're talking about the DropShip. I'd send a lot less though, since you're gonna need escorts if you don't want interceptors tearing them to shreads.
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And, the Vengeance can launch 30 of those.....think about it....
I thought we were talking about the Grand Titan Vengeance? ???
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It evolved. Into Vengeasaur!
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Wow, the Vengeance has so much armor, it's overflowing onto the art! ;D
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1281/great-turtle-gtr-1
:D
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"That thing wasn't built, it was poured!"
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am i missing something?
the behemoth heavy tank (standard) has a 6-6-2 attack. its special abilities are SRM 2/2, LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0, IF 1, TUR (4/4/0, SRM 2/2, AC 2/2), SRCH, EE.
if i use special ammo for my SRM, LRM, and AC, would my attack go from 6-6-2 to 9-9-1?
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"That thing wasn't built, it was poured!"
Die-cast construction, it's a lost art.
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am i missing something?
the behemoth heavy tank (standard) has a 6-6-2 attack. its special abilities are SRM 2/2, LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0, IF 1, TUR (4/4/0, SRM 2/2, AC 2/2), SRCH, EE.
if i use special ammo for my SRM, LRM, and AC, would my attack go from 6-6-2 to 9-9-1?
No.
If you put Swarm LRMs in your LRMs, your initial attack would do 6/6/2. If it misses, and there is a target within range, you can make an additional attack that only does 1/1/1 (the lrm value).
if you put inferno SRMs in your SRMs, you initial attack drops to 4/4/2, but adds 2 HT to the target.
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am i missing something?
the behemoth heavy tank (standard) has a 6-6-2 attack. its special abilities are SRM 2/2, LRM 1/1/1, AC 2/2/0, IF 1, TUR (4/4/0, SRM 2/2, AC 2/2), SRCH, EE.
if i use special ammo for my SRM, LRM, and AC, would my attack go from 6-6-2 to 9-9-1?
Special damage is no longer split off from base damage. If you make a normal attack, your total damage spread is 6/6/2. If you use specialty ammo for your LRMs, the part of your damage curve affected by this ammo is 1/1/1. If you use AC special ammo, the part of your damage curve that is affected by that ammo is 2/2/0, and so on and so forth.
If you fire at a target outside of your normal front arc, you use the turret damage rating of 4/4/0. If you fire at a target outside of your normal arc AND use SRM specialty ammo, the damage affected by that ammo is 2/2/0.
Make sense?
Die-cast construction, it's a lost art.
For the win, good sir.
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ohhhh, i was using quick strike rules, not alpha strike. alpha strike treats specials differently when they are fired with other attack types. had to re-read the rules in alpha strike and it makes sense now.
however, the modifiers don't change with the amount of damage? like srm 6/6 using tandem-charge munitions only gets a single critical roll or a single extra damage with heat-seeking?
but in this particular case, should the TUR get 2/2 as well as the regular attack? isn't that redundant as the turret can fire forward? it seems like the AC part of the attack is 4/4 total and was confusing to me.
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I'm lost. Which damage are we talking about now? The Behemoth has a LOT of them.
(It's also probably one of the most extreme examples of specials in AS, so probably not the best teaching tool.)
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The specials outside of the TUR are only for attacks in the forward arc. If a special appears inside the TUR special, it means that you can use it whenever you use the TUR.
Example. A unit with 6/6/1 damage, AC(2/2/-) and TUR(4/4/1)
This unit can only use the AC special in its forward arc.
Now a unit with 6/6/1 damage, AC(2/2/-) and TUR(4/4/1, AC 2/2/-)
This unit can use the AC special with its normal 6/6/1 attack AS WELL as with the Turret special.
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Ohhhh Weirrrr-dooooo...
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4746
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Wow....not quite as tough as I thought. Of course, that weapons array is pretty disturbing.
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Huh, hey gimme that Grand Titan and that Turtle. We will then play Brick Wars and see who comes out on top.
I'll have room for lighter armored designs like the Atlas, don't worry I'll diversify.
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We should do a free-for-all game, everybody brings one 'mech, must have 10 or more armor. It'll be called 'Last Brick Standing'. 8)
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Wow....not quite as tough as I thought. Of course, that weapons array is pretty disturbing.
XL engine and Standard Armor.
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Good point.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6329
Holy Land Battleship, Batman!
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Yes, the second most heavily armored land unit in the game :D
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6607/gulltoppr-omnimonitor-a
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"My god, it's full of dots...."
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Any word on the Hive-series drone ASFs?
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/15/aeshna-heavy-drone-fighter-standard
The others are coming.
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Makes you proud to be Lyran... sheesh...
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Yes, the second most heavily armored land unit in the game :D
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6607/gulltoppr-omnimonitor-a
"Sir we need more room for dots"
"Remove the art!"
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Ok loving the addition of the little "print" icon to split the unit out off the page to a printable version. Nice touch on the programming folks!
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Ok loving the addition of the little "print" icon to split the unit out off the page to a printable version. Nice touch on the programming folks!
? Am I blind?
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? Am I blind?
OK, it shows up in Chrome on my desktop but not in the mobile version.
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? Am I blind?
It's next to the Battleforce Stats Text right above the card.
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No.
If you put Swarm LRMs in your LRMs, your initial attack would do 6/6/2. If it misses, and there is a target within range, you can make an additional attack that only does 1/1/1 (the lrm value).
if you put inferno SRMs in your SRMs, you initial attack drops to 4/4/2, but adds 2 HT to the target.
I thought if you used special ammo you were only allowed that particular attack though. So if I used Swarm LRMs in the case above would I not just get a single attack at 1/1/1?
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Very cool! I am psyched to play Alpha Strike.
I love how many sub-par units become much more useful under this ruleset. The 10M Grand Titan gets a definitive bump in battlefield prowess. The Gladiator Omnimech, which typically gets crippled by its light side torso armor, becomes a terrifying mobile weapons platform.
It's also great to see that lighter mobile units have become dangerous again.
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I thought if you used special ammo you were only allowed that particular attack though. So if I used Swarm LRMs in the case above would I not just get a single attack at 1/1/1?
Nope. Special ammo usually just gives a second chance at your existing attack, though it does look like you have the option to use only the special attack. Basically, you'd attack with your base 6/6/2, but if you miss, you have a second chance at 1/1/1, or you can just only attack with the 1/1/1.
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One thing I've noticed about the new AS cards on the MUL:
Is it me, or has the Reseen BattleMaster's appearance been canonized as "how all BLR-XX 'mechs supposed to look", as the -4S' art is being used for the earlier variations (as opposed to the usual PP silhouette)?
If so, I approve. Of all the reseens the BattleMaster is the only one (outside of, perhaps, the Locust) that is a definite improvement on the original O0
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Nope. Special ammo usually just gives a second chance at your existing attack, though it does look like you have the option to use only the special attack. Basically, you'd attack with your base 6/6/2, but if you miss, you have a second chance at 1/1/1, or you can just only attack with the 1/1/1.
If that is the case this is worded really poorly; pg 76 of the rule book under Alternate Munitions 3rd paragraph:
In gameplay, an attacking player
who wishes to use specialty munitions
need only declare that his attack
will make use of its alternative
ammunition (and what type of
alternate ammunition it is). The
player then rolls for a weapons attack
as normal, using the base range and
damage values for the special ability
that works with the unit’s alternate
munitions. If the attack is successful, adjust
the ability’s normal damage values and other special
effects as appropriate to the rules for the specialty
ammo type used.
Note that an attack using specialty munitions
replaces the unit’s normal attack values for
its requisite special ability. Unless otherwise
noted, use of alternate munitions does not
provide the unit with an extra bonus attack,
but will modify the standard weapon attacks
of the unit accordingly.
The bolded text sounds to me like it replaces your normal attack. Why do you feel that it does not? Not trying to argue I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
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Ok loving the addition of the little "print" icon to split the unit out off the page to a printable version. Nice touch on the programming folks!
I too no longer see this print icon in the MUL. (Using Internet Explorer)
Will it return? 8)
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Now that they're graphics files, they're even handier!
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One thing I've noticed about the new AS cards on the MUL:
Is it me, or has the Reseen BattleMaster's appearance been canonized as "how all BLR-XX 'mechs supposed to look", as the -4S' art is being used for the earlier variations (as opposed to the usual PP silhouette)?
If so, I approve. Of all the reseens the BattleMaster is the only one (outside of, perhaps, the Locust) that is a definite improvement on the original O0
No. That's an error.
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The bolded text sounds to me like it replaces your normal attack. Why do you feel that it does not? Not trying to argue I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
I agree that section seems to be saying that. It doesn't jive with AS p78
"If a unit using precision ammunition chooses to attack with only its AC special ability, it applies a –2 to-hit modifier to the instead of receiving the damage bonus indicated above."
Similar notes appear on almost every munition.
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To the rules questions forum!
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I took it to mean that the overall rule was trying to say that you could have one or the other, depending on the actual ability.
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I too no longer see this print icon in the MUL. (Using Internet Explorer)
Will it return? 8)
It has disappeared for me too.
Shouldn't have said anything I guess...
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It has disappeared for me too.
Shouldn't have said anything I guess...
It disappeared for me too (using Firefox). I see the cards are updated to Alpha Strike now from Quick Strike. A lot of the 'mech art looks a lot more squished and pixelized. Maybe they are in the middle of an update?
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It disappeared for me too (using Firefox). I see the cards are updated to Alpha Strike now from Quick Strike. A lot of the 'mech art looks a lot more squished and pixelized. Maybe they are in the middle of an update?
I think that's likely that they are testing features and updates.
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The Riever 700b - Clear Skies Ahead Boss!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/BFPrint/2692)
I'll take six hundred.
Do you accept checks?
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This one is a mistake.. but I'll take 1Million http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3623/ymir-bwp-x1-bipedal-weapons-platform
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This one is a mistake.. but I'll take 1Million http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3623/ymir-bwp-x1-bipedal-weapons-platform
Yeah, I was looking at Primitives earlier today and noticed that. So I added it to the Errata list.
WYSIWYG on that one. Can't field it unless you have the miniature. ;-P So if you want a million of them, that's a million miniatures you need...
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Yeah, I was looking at Primitives earlier today and noticed that. So I added it to the Errata list.
WYSIWYG on that one. Can't field it unless you have the miniature. ;-P So if you want a million of them, that's a million miniatures you need...
Yeah saw you did... for the point cost.. could see a lot of use for that one.
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Looks like some transcription errors.
-
Looks like some transcription errors.
Solar flares.
-
Looks like some transcription errors.
It's a feature!
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This weeks' special, the Shogun (Trisha), only 0 Points!
Get 'em while they last!
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Why does the jenner (multiple variants),have only a six inch jump move, shouldn't that be 10"?
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Why does the jenner (multiple variants),have only a six inch jump move, shouldn't that be 10"?
See this thread:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32474.0.html (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32474.0.html)
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Ok, need to overhaul my logic circuits. The argument works, but is ugly nonetheless. Thanks, CT!
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Ok loving the addition of the little "print" icon to split the unit out off the page to a printable version. Nice touch on the programming folks!
I've got the best print results with Firefox (linux), scaling down the page to 67%, and printing in regular quality (save a lot of ink) and good 120g paper. It's perfect for the card sleeves I've got. I also printed a simple back cover with same size and paper to make the card thicker.
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Can't tell if it's just me going slightly more crazy, but did the TBT-3C lose a point of armor while I wasn't looking? Could have SWORN they were 5/2
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Can't tell if it's just me going slightly more crazy, but did the TBT-3C lose a point of armor while I wasn't looking? Could have SWORN they were 5/2
9+10+20+10+10+10+13+13+7+5+5=112 points of armor.
112/30 = 3.7333, rounds up to 4 Armor in Alpha Strike.
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I too no longer see this print icon in the MUL. (Using Internet Explorer)
Will it return? 8)
Just click on the card?
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9+10+20+10+10+10+13+13+7+5+5=112 points of armor.
112/30 = 3.7333, rounds up to 4 Armor in Alpha Strike.
So... Just Crazy.
Thanks! :D
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are there plans to release the revised BattleTech-to-AlphaStrike conversion rules as a seperate product? being able to convert our custom designs would be nice, but having to buy an expensive book to get the rules (or rebuy, for those who already have a copy with the older rules) seems a bit offputting.
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A quick question regarding conversion of infantry to AS:
Has the rule governing armor changed? I'm looking at the rules in StratOps, and they aren't quite clear regarding Mechinf with armor. Mechinf is troopers/30, but it seems that any armored infantry use troopers/(15/divisor). Would armored mechinf be troopers/(30/divisor), troopers/(15/divisor), or just troopers/30, ignoring the armor? I'm trying to convert a platoon with 24 troopers and Div 2 armor.
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Mechanized are basically a 0.5 armor divisor. If they then have a 2 armor divisor for their armor, the result is a 1 (same as unarmored non-mechanized infantry).
-
So it'd be troopers/(30/divisor), ending up the same as a normal platoon of troopers/15.
Cool, that gives my Ibex RV platoons Armor 2. Not much, but could easily mean the difference between insta-kill and living to shoot another turn.
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No one has said it but thanks guys. Nice Work!
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Looking at the Great Turtle and Titan Vengeance it occured to me that they seemed to have done the conversion based on armor tonnage rather than by points with a modifier for armor type as per Strategic Operations. It makes me wonder if that's going to be the new standard once the SO errata drops, or if i should report it as a mistake.
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Looking at the Great Turtle and Titan Vengeance it occured to me that they seemed to have done the conversion based on armor tonnage rather than by points with a modifier for armor type as per Strategic Operations. It makes me wonder if that's going to be the new standard once the SO errata drops, or if i should report it as a mistake.
Hardened Armour was points x1.5. We changed it to x2, but it's still based on points.
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So it'd be troopers/(30/divisor), ending up the same as a normal platoon of troopers/15.
Cool, that gives my Ibex RV platoons Armor 2. Not much, but could easily mean the difference between insta-kill and living to shoot another turn.
You are correct, Sir!
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Vewwy good... }:)
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Hardened Armour was points x1.5. We changed it to x2, but it's still based on points.
Groovy. Thanks for letting me know as that was the only major difference I've noted between QS and AS stats so far. Aside from the changes to listing movement in inches, and a tweak here or there for IF or the new OVL ability.
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I've got the best print results with Firefox (linux), scaling down the page to 67%, and printing in regular quality (save a lot of ink) and good 120g paper. It's perfect for the card sleeves I've got. I also printed a simple back cover with same size and paper to make the card thicker.
What I do is copy and paste the card image into a GIMP document (8 1/2 X 11, 300 DPI *setting the DPI high [at least 150] is extremely important for this process, if you leave it at the default -- 72 DPI, the results will be well-nigh unreadable*). Then I scale the image down to a height of 1 1/2 inches, with the scaling linked. And repeat till the sheet is filled. Doing this allows for at least 18 (and often even more) cards to be printed at one time. Then I cut them out and have them laminated, leaving easily-transported record cards that can be used with a dry-or-wet-erase marker.
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What I do is copy and paste the card image into a GIMP document (8 1/2 X 11, 300 DPI *setting the DPI high [at least 150] is extremely important for this process, if you leave it at the default -- 72 DPI, the results will be well-nigh unreadable*). Then I scale the image down to a height of 1 1/2 inches, with the scaling linked. And repeat till the sheet is filled. Doing this allows for at least 18 (and often even more) cards to be printed at one time. Then I cut them out and have them laminated, leaving easily-transported record cards that can be used with a dry-or-wet-erase marker.
I do something like this, only less impressive. Copy the card image, past into a word document, and resize. Setting the cards for a height of 2.5 inches gives me eight cards per page, often allowing me to put my entire force on one or two pages. I don't normally cut them apart, as keeping them together makes it much easier to keep track of stuff, especially if your force has multiples of the same unit in it.
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I noticed that now, the alphastrike cards print icon disapeared in MUL. And now, it's "alpha strike" instead of quickstrike on the cards.
What I do is copy and paste the card image into a GIMP document (8 1/2 X 11, 300 DPI *setting the DPI high [at least 150] is extremely important for this process, if you leave it at the default -- 72 DPI, the results will be well-nigh unreadable*).
Good technic. I'll try that but with metric measurements. Thanks !
Then I cut them out and have them laminated, leaving easily-transported record cards that can be used with a dry-or-wet-erase marker.
It's what I did for the QS cards. But as a time saver, I think the next cards will be inserted in card protective sleeves instead. Faster and overall good looking and functional.
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Somehow, I think the points costing formula got mangled entirely into little bits which were then fed to a passing woodchipper.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1933 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1933)
No mistakes in the conversion... just that massing MMLs has had unintended consequences. That's Clan 'Mech level damage on a 14 point platform. It's insanely underpointed for what it can achieve.
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well, i know what model i'll be using when i get my unseen Longbow's later this year..
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well, i know what model i'll be using when i get my unseen Longbow's later this year..
This one, right?
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1938/longbow-lgb-8v
:D
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This one, right?
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1938/longbow-lgb-8v
:D
While I technically have Anvils to do that for me... sure... why not?
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Somehow, I think the points costing formula got mangled entirely into little bits which were then fed to a passing woodchipper.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1933 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1933)
No mistakes in the conversion... just that massing MMLs has had unintended consequences. That's Clan 'Mech level damage on a 14 point platform. It's insanely underpointed for what it can achieve.
A lot of missile 'mechs got very very good because no longer is their damage spread out around a damage tree. I used a Salamander the other day while and while a bit more expensive and a little less damage, it was pretty scary for an IS 'mech.
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Ooo, I should check out the various FWL missile boats...
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This one, right?
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1938/longbow-lgb-8v
:D
that one is fun too.. tough choice. massive low cost damage, or the ability to reach out and really hurt someone from all the way across the board..
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Ooo, I should check out the various FWL missile boats...
Here's your Lemon Cart, Weirdo!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3618/yeoman-ymn-10-or
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Dangit, I REALLY need to get some Yeoman minis...
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Dangit, I REALLY need to get some Yeoman minis...
That's the first time anyone has uttered those words, ever.
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They're doubly useful. You can play Battletech with 'em, AND throw them at attackers!
....dang, the MUL won't let us search by BF specials anymore. woulda been handy to search just for units with LRM.
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That's the first time anyone has uttered those words, ever.
at least out loud. I actually ordered one on purpose once.
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Dangit, I REALLY need to get some Yeoman minis...
That's the first time anyone has uttered those words, ever.
so proxy them with some CAV Tiamat's..
(http://theogresden.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/ogre_11thLR_tiamat_left.294191915_large.jpg)
(note: not one of my mini's...)
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Okay, those look DAMN good, but I think I'll stick with actual Yeomen if possible. The lack of respect they engender might draw a measure of apathy from opponents, keeping them alive longer.
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That's the first time anyone has uttered those words, ever.
I own 4.
Hmmmm.
Walking Waffle Iron... Mmm... Waffles. (I cannot comment on my actual mental state when I bought them.)
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Okay, those look DAMN good, but I think I'll stick with actual Yeomen if possible. The lack of respect they engender might draw a measure of apathy from opponents, keeping them alive longer.
Yeah..I like them. They may not be the best, but they are a very good missile boat. I think the lack of respect comes from them being ugly.
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For someone who is not a fan of the 80's intro box designs, that seems like an ironic statement. To each his own, but to me a walking waffle iron is no worse than "boxy robot man with boxy cat head" or that "a skull head paint job does makes a basket ball cockpit look cooler, no really."
It's made me convinced that BT players are "visually design blind" if the stats are good.
Thank goodness, for the new retro designs. Some of them are more my style.
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It's made me convinced that BT players are "visually design blind" if the stats are good.
Nah, I still won't use a Bloodhound. Though I'll admit that the '67u variant is REALLY trying my resolve on that front...
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For someone who is not a fan of the 80's intro box designs, that seems like an ironic statement. To each his own, but to me a walking waffle iron is no worse than "boxy robot man with boxy cat head" or that "a skull head paint job does makes a basket ball cockpit look cooler, no really."
It's made me convinced that BT players are "visually design blind" if the stats are good.
Thank goodness, for the new retro designs. Some of them are more my style.
It's more aesthetic design choice and tastes than "visually design blind." I mean, we are talking about art for an imaginary made up world. Just because you think they are bad doesn't mean you are right... or wrong :D
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It's more aesthetic design choice and tastes than "visually design blind." I mean, we are talking about art for an imaginary made up world. Just because you think they are bad doesn't mean you are right... or wrong :D
True. On the other end, I'm not a fan of ballet mechs for the BT universe.
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Nah, I still won't use a Bloodhound. Though I'll admit that the '67u variant is REALLY trying my resolve on that front...
but... the stock Bloodhound is awesome... :'(
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any chance the split movement entries (where jump is listed alongside ground movement due to IJJ's or odd jump distances) can be adjusted so the jump move isn't overlapping the word 'skill'? either by adjusting the card itself or shrinking the font size for the movement rates to fit the empty space.
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any chance the split movement entries (where jump is listed alongside ground movement due to IJJ's or odd jump distances) can be adjusted so the jump move isn't overlapping the word 'skill'? either by adjusting the card itself or shrinking the font size for the movement rates to fit the empty space.
this [applause]
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That is correct, sir!
So about infantry. I was poking around the MUL and couldn't find anywhere that said you got 2 for the points value indicated.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/530/ceremonial-guard-caesars-royal-guard-marian-hegemony
What exactly is someone paying 4 points for here?
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that's a website graphics issue that is
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So about infantry. I was poking around the MUL and couldn't find anywhere that said you got 2 for the points value indicated.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/530/ceremonial-guard-caesars-royal-guard-marian-hegemony
What exactly is someone paying 4 points for here?
I haven't gotten to putting in the noted for those yet. Still got a bunch of infantry to enter.
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I haven't gotten to putting in the noted for those yet. Still got a bunch of infantry to enter.
Will the notes be on the card images or on the larger MUL unit page?
I really appreciate the work going into the MUL. It's amazing.
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So about infantry. I was poking around the MUL and couldn't find anywhere that said you got 2 for the points value indicated.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/530/ceremonial-guard-caesars-royal-guard-marian-hegemony
What exactly is someone paying 4 points for here?
Hmm. Looks like some formatting got cut off. For the Marian guard, 4 points gets you 4 units with those stats.
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Hmm. Looks like some formatting got cut off. For the Marian guard, 4 points gets you 4 units with those stats.
Would it make sense to put a note in the special section on the card, or is that only for special rules used during the game rather than a note telling you that you get 2 or 4 stands of infantry?
-
Will the notes be on the card images or on the larger MUL unit page?
I really appreciate the work going into the MUL. It's amazing.
You know, I was going to say the unit page, but maybe we should put it as a special ability... Let me go run it by some people..
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Should the ZEU-X4 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6630/zeus-x-zeu-x4) have an MHQ special due to the command console?
-
Should be mhq1 IIRC
-
Should be mhq1 IIRC
Yeah, the data's been corrected, we just need to update the card now..
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If that's the only error, I'm going to be shocked and amazed. :)
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Hmm. Looks like some formatting got cut off. For the Marian guard, 4 points gets you 4 units with those stats.
Wait, so 4 points will give me 4 (sub)platoons of infantry, each of which have 4 armor? :o
Jeez, I think we can consider the Caesar guarded. O0
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Wait, so 4 points will give me 4 (sub)platoons of infantry, each of which have 4 armor? :o
Jeez, I think we can consider the Caesar guarded. O0
do they sub-contract to other nations? }:)
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Wait, so 4 points will give me 4 (sub)platoons of infantry, each of which have 4 armor? :o
Jeez, I think we can consider the Caesar guarded. O0
Hyep. 2 Armor Divisor + 25 men and rounding up gives 4 armor.
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One thing the Marian Hegemony has figured out, it's conventional infantry. Deploying a full company wherever anyone else would deploy a single platoon will do that. When I first got back into Battletech, I was thinking about doing my stuff up as Marians, but the other limitations of such a minor power meant I went with Capellans in the end.
Alpha Strike seems to have more of a wider picture of warfare than TW does, with lighter mechs and more conventional elements and vehicles performing better than their TW counterparts, so perhaps a Marian Hegemony combined arms force would be quite hard to deal with.
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It's a shame Alpha Strike doesn't have rules(yet >:D) for a lot of the fancy stuff TacOps lets infantry do at the TW scale. Can you imagine how much of a pain it would be to try and root those guys out of a good dug-in position if you didn't have any AE on hand?
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It's a shame Alpha Strike doesn't have rules(yet >:D) for a lot of the fancy stuff TacOps lets infantry do at the TW scale. Can you imagine how much of a pain it would be to try and root those guys out of a good dug-in position if you didn't have any AE on hand?
Don't think AS should have rules for that stuff. that's what TW/TO is for.
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Well, we know they're planning to release expansions for AS someday. While a lot of TO stuff is already in AS, it's my hope that at least one future supplement will include stuff like that, a sort of TacStrike as it were.
But if it's not in the cards, then I can live. After all, that'd mean that we have the cards. ;)
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Don't think AS should have rules for that stuff. that's what TW/TO is for.
It totally should. The digging in of infantry and the allocation of enigneering resources to get the best job done belongs in the larger scale game, not in the zoomd in TW scope.
Also, properly dug in infantry should be nearly immune to artillery that doesn't have specialized ammunition to deal with the defenses.
The TRN special ability lets a 2" area give a +2 hit defensive bonus, but not against flame or artillery. The type of DFPs that are good against modern artillery take longer to build as they involve timber and dirt filled roofs to protect against airburst and clusters. However, if the artillery doesn't have anything other than normal high explosive and isn't capable of airburst, TRN should pretty much make them immune to artillery.
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I'm waiting for society toys myself :)
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The TRN special ability lets a 2" area give a +2 hit defensive bonus, but not against flame or artillery. The type of DFPs that are good against modern artillery take longer to build as they involve timber and dirt filled roofs to protect against airburst and clusters. However, if the artillery doesn't have anything other than normal high explosive and isn't capable of airburst, TRN should pretty much make them immune to artillery.
TRN?
I'm guessing that all Battletech artillery is airburst, judging by the massive blast radii and the fact that we know standard shells ignore digging in. Consequently, cluster shells are ones that simply airburst higher, in an attempt to explode over 'mechs and low-flying VTOLs, while normal shells may detonate much closer(but still above) the ground.
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TRN?
It's on p 109: Trenchworks/Fieldworks Engineers (TRN)
Each turn these infantry units may convert a 2” radius area of effect into a fortified area. Attacks against infantry units in a fortified area suffer an additional +2 to-hit modifier. Heat, Inferno and area effect weapons ignore this modifier.
Now finding a unit that has it isn't something I've accomplished yet.
I'm guessing that all Battletech artillery is airburst, judging by the massive blast radii and the fact that we know standard shells ignore digging in. Consequently, cluster shells are ones that simply airburst higher, in an attempt to explode over 'mechs and low-flying VTOLs, while normal shells may detonate much closer(but still above) the ground.
It makes sense that infantry digging in is a problem artillery technology would attempt to solve and not everything became lostech. I could see someone developing a great anti-trencher artillery round and it becoming widespread.
I think the best way to represent prepared infantry defenses that include artillery protection is using the building rules. The TRN infantry rule is good enough for hasty earthworks.
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It's on p 109:
*snip*
Now finding a unit that has it isn't something I've accomplished yet.
Hootcha. (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/664/combat-engineer-royal-engineer-platoons-royal-guards) 8)
I think the best way to represent prepared infantry defenses that include artillery protection is using the building rules. The TRN infantry rule is good enough for hasty earthworks.
Yeah, that's how I'd do it as well. A small reinforced building would definitely be the way to represent one of those prepared bunkers.
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Hootcha. (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/664/combat-engineer-royal-engineer-platoons-royal-guards) 8)
Turns out it was user error. ;D I had the filters on only showing the battlemech unit type. Thanks for the link.
Yeah, that's how I'd do it as well. A small reinforced building would definitely be the way to represent one of those prepared bunkers.
I've got some painting to do, but I'm actually looking forward to a game where I take a full battalion of infantry + support. Maybe some arty, some air support, some tanks. I usually email my lists to my opponents in advance so they don't get blind sided by something spammy. I need to paint them, but I have some miniatures that would be perfect as this:
(http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1130)
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I have question about how the braket works:
so, the atlas 7D has 5 damage at medium range. If my attack roll fails, then I can roll for the AC special attack and the LRM special attack.
is this correct?
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I have question about how the braket works:
so, the atlas 7D has 5 damage at medium range. If my attack roll fails, then I can roll for the AC special attack and the LRM special attack.
is this correct?
No. You have 5 damage at medium range. Of that 5, 2 can be used for AC special munitions, and 1 for LRM special munitions.
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You have to be dropship sized or larger to have more than one attack in Alpha Strike.
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oh... ok, so in the case of the atlas, I can make one attack at medium range of 5 points of damage, or one attack of AC special or one attack of LRM special. Is this correct?
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Correct. And if you read up on the specifics of the special ammo types, some of them can be used within the 5-point standard attack. For example, you can do a standard attack on an airborne target and declare that you're also using Flak AC special ammo. If you hit, it does normal damage and you're done. If you miss but by 2 or less, the Flak ammo hits, and you do AC damage to the target.
It takes a little head-wrapping, but it ends up mimicking pretty closely what the specialty ammos can do in TW.
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Thanks for yours replies.
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Look what's active now:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5819/pariah-septicemia-z
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4767/osteon-prime
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and now we see why the Society was so terrifying.
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Yeah... super awesome :)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5832/turkina-z
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Yeah... super awesome :)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5832/turkina-z
:o
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Yeah... super awesome :)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5832/turkina-z
Murphy's Pantlessness...
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Murphy's Pantlessness...
Improved ATMs are the devil, aren't they?
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i'm guessign the C3 function of the Nova CEWS doesn't link enough at a time to warrant the C3 ability?
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i'm guessign the C3 function of the Nova CEWS doesn't link enough at a time to warrant the C3 ability?
Notice the "NOVA" special. That ain't C3, that's something better.
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I assume it's still reconfigurable and unblock able (save for another NOVA ECM unit?)
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Does this update include any vehicles with the NOVA special rule, to represent the kind of prototype Stars which the Stone Lions are said to experiment with post-Reaving?
(I don't recall off-hand if any vehicles have been presented in Total Warfare scale with Nova CEWS installed, or if there is some other means by which a Stone Lion player can experiment with this technology.)
Also, are the Z-variant ProtoMechs offered based on standard Clan deployments, or are their Unit Cards done up based on the Society Un/Trey/Sept organization instead?
(I suppose it may be that any of the "new" ProtoMechs from WoR which the Homeworld Clans made use of might then have two candidates for conversion: one assuming their operation in Society Treys or Septs, and another based on the standard Point/Star setup which the Cloud Cobras, Star Adders, and Stone Lions would operate them in.)
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Does this update include any vehicles with the NOVA special rule, to represent the kind of prototype Stars which the Stone Lions are said to experiment with post-Reaving?
(I don't recall off-hand if any vehicles have been presented in Total Warfare scale with Nova CEWS installed, or if there is some other means by which a Stone Lion player can experiment with this technology.)
Also, are the Z-variant ProtoMechs offered based on standard Clan deployments, or are their Unit Cards done up based on the Society Un/Trey/Sept organization instead?
(I suppose it may be that any of the "new" ProtoMechs from WoR which the Homeworld Clans made use of might then have two candidates for conversion: one assuming their operation in Society Treys or Septs, and another based on the standard Point/Star setup which the Cloud Cobras, Star Adders, and Stone Lions would operate them in.)
I doubt there are any vehicles as there aren't any record sheets for it.. I haven't checked on the rest yet.
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The protomechs are calculated as standard 5-protomech formations. Possible alternate formations are a possibility.
There are currently no canon NOVA-equipped tanks, so that's a non-starter.
As for the NOVA ability, yes, it basically works like it does in TW.
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The protomechs are calculated as standard 5-protomech formations. Possible alternate formations are a possibility.
There are currently no canon NOVA-equipped tanks, so that's a non-starter.
As for the NOVA ability, yes, it basically works like it does in TW.
I see, thanks.
(In terms of faction availability, would the Z-variant ProtoMechs be made available to the 3072 Coyotes, or are they strictly Society-only units? If the latter, the likes of the Roc Z might only need to be offered in the Society configs, since no Clan would have made use of them directly. Unless I'm missing something, which may well be the case...)
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I don't make the call on availability.
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(In terms of faction availability, would the Z-variant ProtoMechs be made available to the 3072 Coyotes, or are they strictly Society-only units? If the latter, the likes of the Roc Z might only need to be offered in the Society configs, since no Clan would have made use of them directly. Unless I'm missing something, which may well be the case...)
Pretty sure the Z/Society variants are Society exclusives.
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Yeah... super awesome :)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5832/turkina-z
Mother of...
That obliterates a *Daishi* from pristine to dead in one shot at close range.
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Mother of...
That obliterates a *Daishi* from pristine to dead in one shot at close range.
Yeah, it can. Though... I think AS is going to be a midrange game for the most part. 10 damage is still crazy good though :D
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Mother of...
That obliterates a *Daishi* from pristine to dead in one shot at close range.
Ironically, an AS7-D Atlas would survive. But really, what do you expect from QUAD iATM-12s? That streak technology is ugly.
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Barely survive (as in "all but three structure left, a stiff breeze could finish it off") , but yeah, survive. Spheroids FTW! ;D
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Yeah... super awesome :)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5832/turkina-z
Yeahhhh see I'm going to kill it with fire.
I'll use enough fire to make Babylon a charcoal, then I'll take the fire I just used and kill it with fire as well just to be sure that beast doesn't haunt me.
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For those of you still using Strategic Operations, below is a link to a document that will update the BattleForce and Quick Strike rulesets, as found in the second printing of Strategic Operations, to the new Alpha Strike ruleset:
https://db.tt/Vx32YJyw
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Xotl, do we want to break that out and make it a stickied post?
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And do we have an errata thread? I spotted something that needs fixing.
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And do we have an errata thread? I spotted something that needs fixing.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,31693.0.html
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I meant for the conversion PDF
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I meant for the conversion PDF
The Strategic Operations errata thread.
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Xotl, do we want to break that out and make it a stickied post?
Now that you mention it, having a sticky with that for a while would be nice. Thanks.
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Now we need to get Alpha Strike unit cards into the Box Set!
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Now that you mention it, having a sticky with that for a while would be nice. Thanks.
Done!
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Now we need to get Alpha Strike unit cards into the Box Set!
My 2 cents? An AS intro box set in either ToW/Star League or Early Clan years with 16-20 plastic mechs would be the bees knees. Make it for $40 and it would be a value that blows the big mini games out of the water.
My apologies if I've said this before. I am getting thread fatigue and can't remember what I've mentioned where any more. You can thank AS for that.
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Do we know if/when the printed AS Unit Cards are going to be produced?
Still hoping that the Ad-Hoc unit cards would be reprinted again soon...
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Do we know if/when the printed AS Unit Cards are going to be produced?
Still hoping that the Ad-Hoc unit cards would be reprinted again soon...
No information has been announced on any other printings. But for now, most units are available through the updated Master Unit List entries for you to print out on your own.
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Hey Weirdo! Here's a perfect air-mobile unit for you!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3659
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Pantsless and boobed...
Do you know what you can do with forty-eight tons?! :o
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Pantsless and boobed...
Do you know what you can do with forty-eight tons?! :o
Deploy 12 platoons of HALO paratroopers?
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ALL the paratroopers...
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Hey Weirdo! Here's a perfect air-mobile unit for you!
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3659
To butcher that quote from the FM3085 opening story:
"A Cat, A Feddie, and a one armed Leaguer walk into a bar..."
Because that ship was their ride and it was so beautiful seeing the artwork after that page.
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wrong thread...
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Any news of the printed version release ?
Thanks O0
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Any news of the printed version release ?
Street Date is October 9th, so your local store might have it. If they don't, they should be able to order it.
Paul
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Buddy of mine found it on shelves a couple days ago or so, so that sounds about right to me.
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Buddy of mine found it on shelves a couple days ago or so, so that sounds about right to me.
Yeah, I know my store stocks them now, which is good given the big event tomorrow.
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My LGS hopes to have them in next week.
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I just wish I could afford to pick up a copy, whenever I find it on a shelf. As-is, I'm likely going to have to wait until christmastime or something like that.
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I saw several copies of Alpha Strike and the Alpha Kit at my FLGS this afternoon.
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We have in several copies now.
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I got my copies of Alpha Strike and the Alpha kit! O0
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Alpha Kit?
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Alpha Kit?
CGL offers combined tables from various rulebooks on heavy cardstock.
http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3236
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I'm usually not one to gripe as I think Catalyst items are pretty fairly priced but $15 for seven sheets seems a little steep. Am I missing something?
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Thank for the answer about the book,
I'll try to find it in Europe, and at least order it from official webstore.
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Is there any word yet on if/when the units from TRO:3145 Republic of the Sphere and Record Sheets: 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades will be offered in Ship Card form on the Master Unit List?
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Is there any word yet on if/when the units from TRO:3145 Republic of the Sphere and Record Sheets: 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades will be offered in Ship Card form on the Master Unit List?
no word yet, but should be soon.
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My 2 cents? An AS intro box set in either ToW/Star League or Early Clan years with 16-20 plastic mechs would be the bees knees. Make it for $40 and it would be a value that blows the big mini games out of the water.
My apologies if I've said this before. I am getting thread fatigue and can't remember what I've mentioned where any more. You can thank AS for that.
Heck yes! I have the 25th Box Set, but I'd buy this too, just to have an easy way to carry all that goodness.
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don't forget AS cards for common 3025 and 3052 versions of the reguallr starter set's figures (including the Loki, Thor, madcat, and battlemeaster, if not already in the AS boxset).. that would let players with the regular starter sets use those as an immediate expansion for their AS games..
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There's also a sheet of blank cards in the back of the PDF for Alpha Strike...
And yes, some mechs aren't near what they are in TW rules while some you might have never taken are solid designs.
There are no standalone blank cards? I'd have to get the full PDF from an online retailer?
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There are no standalone blank cards? I'd have to get the full PDF from an online retailer?
Good news! If you have Army Builder, then you can get the 3050 'mechs in there!
Also, I believe you can print up the Alpha Strike stats from the MUL, as well.
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Or photocopy that page. It is worth getting the rulebooks in PDF especially if you can hold out for one of the sales and get them for $5 each.