Author Topic: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description  (Read 29025 times)

Bad_Syntax

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #60 on: 29 March 2012, 00:48:23 »
How do you know it will only take three months, and who's going to care about paying you if you come up with something not enough people like?  Where are you going to find the money if you ever wanted to update the game with more content and/or updated/fixed rules or animations?

Because in 3 months is 12 weeks, a modeler should easily be able to make some 1000 or so poly mech models in 3 a week, with some animations.  The same animations could be used on multiple models.  Textures are pretty simple too, and can be bought for cheap.  The engine itself isn't very hard either, not like we are making the next COD or Far Cry.  I can get a 3D engine going with my crappy skills within a day or two, somebody who knows what they are doing should easily be able to get it done in under 3 months with some generic weapon effects.  I've already wrote a DX interface. 

And after those 3 months I would have something far better.  If everybody liked it and wanted more content, at that point people could pay for DLC, but I'd rather just have the engine tweaked as much as possible and open source it all, that way it can live forever in mods.

Getting 10,000 sales at $15 a pop would easily pay for this endeavor, but I'm not motivated to do it, and don't have the cash to put down on it (even though as a disabled vet I could probably get a small business loan to do it pretty easily).  I want to do my strategic game first, when its all done and complete, I'll look at adding a simple low poly real time game engine (much more like mechcommander 2 than mechwarrior or this tactics crap).
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Paul

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #61 on: 29 March 2012, 09:00:41 »
Your impression seems to have no overlap with how games are generated in the real world.

And since you're not motivated to work on it anyway, it seems both moot and denigrating of the people who are, actually, doing work and investing money.

Paul

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nckestrel

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #62 on: 29 March 2012, 09:19:40 »
Thanks for that.

The game looks absolutely horrible though.  I'll give it a try, but "collectible" is the #1 way to ruin a game.
There are far 'better' ways to ruin a game.  Like continually saying what you are going to do and not actually doing it.  That would be my #1.    #2 would be over-promising.  #3 would be forgetting you're making a game.

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#2 is "free to play",
Sorry, Guild Wars is one of my favorite games ever. And if Lord of the Rings Online had been free to play from the start, I might still be playing it.  (Having my existing character stuck in a zone I don't own killed my wanting to try it when it switched).   The amount of time I spent on MUDs/MUSHs/MUSEs, Invasion 3042, MegaMek, etc playing Battletech while never paying a monthly fee were also great times.
There's nothing about a monthly subscription fee that makes a game better.  There are things about having it hosted online that make a game better.  And something has to pay for that hosting.  Paying a large up front payment is one way.  Paying a monthly subscription fee is one way.  And paying smaller payments when I feel like it (I have money and want to pay the people making the great game, or they come out with something specific I'd like to add) is a great way.
The market completely disagrees with your assement as well.

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and #3 is "browser based".  The only thing in this that even remotely looks "ok" are the pretty customizable models, but they are barely a step above "meh".
The map looks awesome, the effects and models I like.  The models will actually change to reflect their loadouts. The gameplay movement and speed of play looks awesome.

I think most of the above comments are your biases, not based on the actual game at all.

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Hopefully Mechwarrior online will be a lot better (I'm still thinking it'll be nearly exactly like World of Tanks, but with a better engine.... thats ok if they don't dumb it down too much).  However, perhaps this game will get some youngsters into the IP, and we need all the support we can get.
I will play the game, and I'm no youngster.  Nor am I stupid.

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Give me 1 graphics programmer (for the very simple engine), 1 modeler (need mechs, duuh), and 3 months of salary and I could make something far far better, as could many of you that are technology oriented.
I can't answer this without making it a personal attack.  Let's just say "pics or it didn't happen."
« Last Edit: 29 March 2012, 09:30:08 by nckestrel »
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #63 on: 29 March 2012, 09:24:47 »
Let's remember to keep it calm in here, please. [copper]
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #64 on: 29 March 2012, 09:51:53 »
Getting 10,000 sales at $15 a pop would easily pay for this endeavor, but I'm not motivated to do it, and don't have the cash to put down on it...

Kickstart it. Wasteland 2 has shown there are plenty of people interested in funding potentially excellent projects, a number of people even kicked in $10k *each*. But you said you're not motivated, so it's probably better to just drop it.

Including the "I can do better than this." comments.
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Paul

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #65 on: 29 March 2012, 09:55:39 »
Including the "I can do better than this." comments.

Yeah. Having the energy to get the job done is a core 'skill'. Not having it means that you can't "do better than this". Suggesting otherwise is Monday-morning quarterbacking.

Paul
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Bad_Syntax

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #66 on: 29 March 2012, 14:35:52 »
Problem with F2P games is they try to nickel and dime you, and to get a normal game play experience you typically have to pay *more* per month than if it was a subscription.  Sure, you can play the game and never spend a game, but you are often playing against people who *do* spend the money.  Thus, you end up loosing to those with more money than you, and its horribly unbalanced.  World of Tanks is a great F2P game, but if you can afford "premium ammo", you automatically have a much better lead over your opponents.  Some people like F2P, but IMO its just corporations trying to squeeze more money out of you, just like DLC.  15 years ago if a game sold well they'd continue to support it for a while, now they often just make it, release it, and leave it. 

Browser based means there are serious limits on things like textures and models.  All that stuff has to be downloaded over your internet connection, and you can't play it without internet.  There is no way to mod the game, or do any tweaks yourself.  The unity engine is more of a framework for scripting things to make a game, and will have its own limitations and overhead.  But, a browser based game *does* open the door for people with older hardware to play it, which is the #1 reason to do a browser game.  Thus they are targeting this for the lowest common denominator to have more players.

A collectible game on the computer?  So you start with maybe 4 designs, and you gotta pay a few bucks for each one after that.  You gotta pay for new equipment, pay for new armor, etc, etc, etc... again, people with more money have an automatic advantage, and IMO the amount of money you have shouldn't automatically give you an advantage in play over some kid who saved up for 3 months to just get his first upgrade.

I have experience with software development, with online games, with game architecture, game design, directx, various 3D game engines, etc, etc.  So it isn't that I'm biased on this game, I just really think it'll be pretty crappy.  Heck the entire way it plays is completely different than BT.  Its a you-go-I-go  method, like warhammer.  I didn't see any vehicles or infantry either.  And only 1 lance???  Well, that is probably falling back to the architectural limits of the browser engine. 

As for doing an official BT product, kickstart or otherwise, I don't own the IP.  And tho I have a lot of experience in the industry, I have no idea who to talk to at MSFT to get a license (I've sent numerous emails with no success).  That is where my motivation falls off, the whole legality thing.  Plus, I am working on my own BT project that has been my goal for a really long time, and that is far closer to master of orion than megamek.

The key thing about either of these games IMO, is aside from the few thousand of us fans around the country that will surely play it, we are the minority of players on both.  Hopefully these 2 games will open the doors to the BTU to people who aren't familiar with it, and perhaps get some more people buying books and miniatures.  Even if its really bad there will be *some* people who play it, and even a couple hundred new BT board game players in the US is a noticeable bump.

I'm very open minded to both MWO and MWT, and will try both, but I find it amazing how many people are so adamant about defending both games without playing them, especially when so many negative features are coming out about both of them.  Sorry, but F2P, Browser Based, and collectible are all "negative features" for players, and all 3 "positive features" for the companies that make them.
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Paul

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #67 on: 29 March 2012, 14:41:08 »
I'm very open minded to both MWO and MWT, and will try both, but I find it amazing how many people are so adamant about defending both games without playing them,

I find it amazing how many people are so adamant about attacking both games without playing them.

Paul
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Bad_Syntax

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #68 on: 29 March 2012, 14:52:14 »
I find it amazing how many people are so adamant about attacking both games without playing them.

When you have play as many games as I do, understand the underlying architecture, and see the poor quality of all the other F2P/Browser games on the market, well, it is pretty easy to say a game will suck before it even comes out based on a few screenshots and gameplay movies.  It isn't about graphics or pretty pictures, its about the fine details and polish one who knows what they are looking at can see in such imagery. 

Well since MWT is a browser game pretty much everybody can play it, and since so many are all sooooo sure it'll be great, if it is, I'll never post another thing about any MW type computer game, ever.   Better yet, I'm so sure this game will NOT be great, that if it is, I'll donate the stack of BT miniatures in my closet to any charity ya'll can find that would want them.  MWO could end up being pretty decent, but tactics won't.
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Paul

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #69 on: 29 March 2012, 15:00:10 »
Well since MWT is a browser game pretty much everybody can play it, and since so many are all sooooo sure it'll be great, if it is, I'll never post another thing about any MW type computer game, ever.   Better yet, I'm so sure this game will NOT be great, that if it is, I'll donate the stack of BT miniatures in my closet to any charity ya'll can find that would want them. 

I don't think either's necessary or desirable. I'll drop you a PM with some suggestions though.

Paul
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Chunga

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #70 on: 29 March 2012, 15:38:33 »
Quote
I'm so sure this game will NOT be great, that if it is

Please define this, because I want to see you donate.
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nckestrel

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #71 on: 29 March 2012, 15:50:53 »
When you have play as many games as I do, understand the underlying architecture, and see the poor quality of all the other F2P/Browser games on the market, well, it is pretty easy to say a game will suck before it even comes out based on a few screenshots and gameplay movies.  It isn't about graphics or pretty pictures, its about the fine details and polish one who knows what they are looking at can see in such imagery. 
I'm looking at the same movies and screenshots, and love the way it looks and plays. 
Honestly, I have no problem with you not liking the art.  It's subjective. 
What I do have a problem with is the "I could do better."  You asked for us to evaluate your work versus theirs, and the comparison isn't even close in my opinion.  Give me Mechwarrior Tactics.   
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TS_Hawk

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #72 on: 29 March 2012, 15:55:16 »
When you have play as many games as I do, understand the underlying architecture, and see the poor quality of all the other F2P/Browser games on the market, well, it is pretty easy to say a game will suck before it even comes out based on a few screenshots and gameplay movies.  It isn't about graphics or pretty pictures, its about the fine details and polish one who knows what they are looking at can see in such imagery. 

Well since MWT is a browser game pretty much everybody can play it, and since so many are all sooooo sure it'll be great, if it is, I'll never post another thing about any MW type computer game, ever.   Better yet, I'm so sure this game will NOT be great, that if it is, I'll donate the stack of BT miniatures in my closet to any charity ya'll can find that would want them.  MWO could end up being pretty decent, but tactics won't.

You know the only way anybody on here will know if the games will be decent is when we can start playing them.  I am sure that there will be some parts on both games that nobody will like or will be rough around the edges and other parts will be exciting.  I am looking forward to playing both games and to see how they turn out.  Primarily tactics is the one for me.

I just don't get why some people are completely against the games just because of how the mechs look, and I know that Catalyst has links to the sites for both games but are they allowing the companies to use the current renditions of the models? 

Thank you Hikage
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Orin J.

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #73 on: 29 March 2012, 16:04:39 »
browser based games have two main hurdles to overcome, and pay4premium has one.

a browser game needs to have very good coding or it'll rapidly devolve into a mess over time, and it needs to handle shutting down hackers (unavoidable in these things) very quickly or they'll find most of their player base heading to the egress in short order. the hardest part is going to be managing the right balance of premium content added to make money against free content added to keep potential players interested in joining (and presumably making purchases if they enjoy themselves.

with that said, i can't find any real track record for the developers involved*, so MW:T looks like it'll be a bit of a trial by fire for the group as a whole.

Please define this, because I want to see you donate.

.........can i declare myself a charity?  ^-^


*there's plenty of claims of them working on successful titles, but not who and in what capacity. they may as well say they've got the accounting  dream team and hired some guys off of zynga that were fired due to not having the skill they put on their resume for programming.
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #74 on: 29 March 2012, 16:19:24 »
Get back on topic, please.  [copper]
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Marwynn

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #75 on: 29 March 2012, 17:15:32 »
Well, there's always Kickstarter for fund raising.

To be honest though, my expectations are being lowered instead of raised with every little tidbit released. I'm still hopeful, so I'll just have to play the game for a few weeks to make up my mind.

Man, this has me hankering for some MegaMek, but I don't have the time to play these days.

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Re: Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #76 on: 29 March 2012, 17:21:23 »
Get back on topic, please.  [copper]

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Re: Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #77 on: 29 March 2012, 23:33:53 »
I still want to play the game 4 mechs or not and free....I am sick of paying for games :D

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Re: Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #78 on: 30 March 2012, 01:25:42 »
Man, this has me hankering for some MegaMek, but I don't have the time to play these days.

Well, I would think MW:Tactics would be great for you because they have that "asynchronous" gameplay.  What I think that means for anybody who doesn't know you can log out and then log back in and your game is still there, although hopefully by then the other player has logged in and put in his moves/decisions and the game can progress.  It might be similar to "play by email" that some older turn based games had.

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Re: Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #79 on: 30 March 2012, 10:42:29 »
I'm looking at the same movies and screenshots, and love the way it looks and plays. 
Honestly, I have no problem with you not liking the art.  It's subjective. 
What I do have a problem with is the "I could do better."  You asked for us to evaluate your work versus theirs, and the comparison isn't even close in my opinion.  Give me Mechwarrior Tactics.

I wanted to say earlier that I'm looking forward to the game.  It looks like it's very close to the table top- and from being on the MWO forums, there are already many threads from fans of the video game series in the 'Battletech universe' thread asking about the table top, asking what they need to play, help with the rules, and announcing arrival of their newly purchased boxed sets.

That's for the 'first person' 'simulator' game.  If people enjoy Tactics, we could see many more new players joining the table top as well, especially regarding its similiarity.  For that reason alone, I applaud it.

I also remember years ago wishing for a proper video game of the tabletop.  I think MegaMek is fantastic- but it's not well known outside the table top community.  Having a visually more attractive version, in 3D, and a company's financial backing and advertising... I'm really looking forward to Tactics.

I'm not too familiar with 'F2P' games, but I was reluctant to try World of Warcraft for a long time because I disagreed with the 'subscription' fee idea.  I got a lot of enjoyment out of it, however, and certainly more value for my dollar than a $60 game I'd rent for a week (~$10-15) and- I wasn't keen for 'DLC' with all the mini and separate purchases.  On the other hand, most 'expansions' these days run about $15 a pop and- depending on the game- give similar amount of content to what a $40 boxed expansion gave 10 years ago.

Prices for goods change.  Regardless of payment model, the content and enjoyment should be weighed-  I'm going to give both games a fair shake, and likely make purchases.  Whether it's 'nickle and diming' or 'required' extras to remain competitive or merely cosmetic I'm going to compare the costs to a game I'd pick up off the shelf.  I suspect that $60 for one game will go a long way with both of these games.
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #80 on: 31 March 2012, 00:45:27 »
I'm fine with the plan they have for Mechwarrior Tactics.  From what I have seen it looks to be an Introductory Rulebook done in 3D.

True, you have to buy "STAC's" booster packs to get more mech chassis and components to build a mech out of, but they have to make money after all.  I would probably do something similar if I ran their company.

I know people are saying that MegaMek is a superior game, but I have to disagree.  I've always found the game to be very clunky to work with, and I cannot get any of my friends to even try it.  I also do think that a 3D game is going to be a much better game than a 2D one.  I've even started helping another forum poster with a little project of his own to make a 3D game.

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #81 on: 31 March 2012, 02:24:34 »

I'm intrigued enough by this to give it a try once it goes live.
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #83 on: 25 April 2012, 15:01:17 »
True, you have to buy "STAC's" booster packs to get more mech chassis and components to build a mech out of, but they have to make money after all.  I would probably do something similar if I ran their company.

From what I've read, you won't have to buy the stacks if you don't want to.  You'll earn them just by playing.  It's just that people who do pay will get their extra toys faster.
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #84 on: 25 April 2012, 15:19:07 »
I posted a reply in Gamesradar, but I wanted to bring it up here as well. Is anyone else troubled by the asynchronous combat turns?

Do the other articles have more in-depth info on just what the difference is between Asynchronous and "Hot-Seat"?

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #85 on: 25 April 2012, 15:30:12 »
You and your opponent will plan your turns out at the same time. Once both of you have submitted your turns, the turn is "run" by the server, and results are available as a 3D "movie" of that turn's action.

Main difference between this and normal TT rules would be that you plot your moves for every mech all at once, blind of what your opponent is doing.

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #86 on: 25 April 2012, 15:51:56 »
Thought so. Dang.

I would have preferred something synchronous, hopefully that's what hot-seat is. Still, I'd love to play with a friend over the interwebs on my android phone, throughout the day. I get an update and I can move my 'Mech. If you put torso-twisting in the movement phase, you can shoot your weapons at the same time afterwards.


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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #87 on: 25 April 2012, 18:11:41 »
Finally some game play footage without someone talking over it.  Not much, but more than I've seen previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K3tuV20ogl0

Anyone else getting the feeling they've squished weapons' ranges a bit?
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TS_Hawk

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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #88 on: 25 April 2012, 20:30:36 »
really just a lance?  now i am a little disappointed I wanted to bring in a full company :D

Thank you Hikage
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Re: MechWarrior Tactics, first extensional description
« Reply #89 on: 25 April 2012, 20:45:25 »
Finally some game play footage without someone talking over it.  Not much, but more than I've seen previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K3tuV20ogl0

Anyone else getting the feeling they've squished weapons' ranges a bit?

If you stop that trailer at 0:10~0:12, you can see the opponent's planned moves- blue hexes with facing in front of his 'mechs.  There's red lines drawn from the orange 'mechs to the blue ones- which I assume are the fire declarations of the weapons phase. (0:10 actually has the attack window, with the 2 medium lasers and the AC20 listed of 'boomer' listed)

It's kind of odd that they would faithfully recreate everything about the TT game and speed up movement- are you sure you're not describing the 'hot seat' feature?
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