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BattleTech Game Universe => The Periphery => Topic started by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 January 2011, 07:55:03

Title: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 January 2011, 07:55:03
Be nice to the catgirls, most of them are officers and a rare few are Ebon Magistrate.  And they all have bigger 'Mechs than you do.

So...did anyone happen to copy down any of the salient points from the last big discussion thread, before the crash?  There was some good stuff; I know I did a lot of data mining and I'm a little annoyed it's gone, since I didn't save it here.  Most of it anyway, the hard numbers I managed to keep - posted below.

I can't wait to see ER62, because that's going to put a lot of stuff on the map as far as the MAF is concerned.  There's a lot that changed, from dribs and drabs of LCTs, STGs, WSPs, and SHDs in the Objective Raids book (dated 3057 I believe) to becoming the south end industrial powerhouse, all starting when Sunny dumped Isis Marik like a used Kardashian and went looking for something more useful.  And of course the MUL, when/if that ever exists.

Remember, open in Excel, as Comma Separated.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coyote_808 on 26 January 2011, 08:00:43
I blame icchan for this strange thread title.  <.<
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 26 January 2011, 08:01:23
Nothing is bad about STGs, WSPS, LCTS, and SHDS! Trust me!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 January 2011, 08:05:18
Nothing bad indeed!  But it's like making the late-1970s models of the VW bug, the Minibus, the Squareback, and Toyota Hiluxes, then boostrapping up to Chevy Volts.  They're good machines, just little; my biggest complaint was the low production rate.  I want to see how the industrial side of things grew, and get an idea what appeared when in the MAF - or if they just blew all the loose cash floating around (see also invoices for things mentioned in thread titles) on stuff from the FWL in the earlier days.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 26 January 2011, 08:09:52
The way I understand it happened, was that the Confederation concentrated their gifts to the units fighting in the Chaos March and the St. Ives Compact. I would guess it would be the left over FWL equipment. There would be little use for that stuff with the Xin Sheng movement.

I guess I show my Battletech age when I can't really see any Mechwarrior refusing a 'mech under any situation ><
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coyote_808 on 26 January 2011, 08:15:00
The way I understand it happened, was that the Confederation concentrated their gifts to the units fighting in the Chaos March and the St. Ives Compact. I would guess it would be the left over FWL equipment. There would be little use for that stuff with the Xin Sheng movement.

I guess I show my Battletech age when I can't really see any Mechwarrior refusing a 'mech under any situation ><

In that case, I have a Vulcan that could use a pilot...  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 26 January 2011, 08:21:04

In that case, I have a Vulcan that could use a pilot...  ;)

That is what the commander of the 1st Light Horse pilots.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coyote_808 on 26 January 2011, 08:24:24

In that case, I have a Vulcan that could use a pilot...  ;)

That is what the commander of the 1st Light Horse pilots.

That is one serious bad ***!  :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 26 January 2011, 08:59:46
Hi fellow Canopians!  :)

In case you missed it, just befor the old board got crushed, I asked Herb in the official section about FW:P and a possible JTP:Canopus IV. He answered that the Manual will be made available as pdf archive and that there are no plans to make a JTP:Canopus yet, but that he certainly doesn't preclude it for future products.

I have some questions for you. :)

(1) About the Canopian nobility
I know they're divided into the Froness (old families), Durachi (merchant princes, new money) and the Girin (artists, scientists, politicians and the like). But what about the noble titles as such? Do they use the same system like most others with Duke/Marquess/Count/Vicecount/Baron/Baronet and so forth? And if so, is every level availabe to every section of the Canopian nobility?

(2) The possible Canopian Feng Huang-class cruiser
Any hints on her name? Or the prefix of the Canopian Navy? My favourite would be MSS Kossandra.

(3)And on the Navy in general
What shipyards do we have in the Magistracy? And which Assault DropShips or - do I dare to ask of - Pocket WarShips do we produce?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 January 2011, 09:50:24
(2) The possible Canopian Feng Huang-class cruiser
Any hints on her name? Or the prefix of the Canopian Navy? My favourite would be MSS Kossandra.

All of the information I'm familiar with indicates five hulls of that class were built.  Three of them were taken out in the Jihad - Field Report: CCAF is unequivocal about that.  There may have been six scheduled, but both FR: CCAF and TRO3067 speak only of five before the Jihad, with the WarShip yards taken out rather decisively.  I rather doubt that in the middle of the Jihad, the Capellans, who were getting hammered on two different fronts, would've said, "Hey, have a WarShip!" to anyone.  Asigning one on a short-term basis, maybe, but not just handing one over.

(3)And on the Navy in general
What shipyards do we have in the Magistracy? And which Assault DropShips or - do I dare to ask of - Pocket WarShips do we produce?

AAG is building fighters on Marantha, with the Troika line on Detroit.  Majesty Metals and Manufacturing is building Leopards on Dunianshire, but probably not the one with the capital missiles.  That appears to be it for major Canopian aerospace manufacturing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 26 January 2011, 09:59:41
All of the information I'm familiar with indicates five hulls of that class were built.  Three of them were taken out in the Jihad - Field Report: CCAF is unequivocal about that.  There may have been six scheduled, but both FR: CCAF and TRO3067 speak only of five before the Jihad, with the WarShip yards taken out rather decisively.  I rather doubt that in the middle of the Jihad, the Capellans, who were getting hammered on two different fronts, would've said, "Hey, have a WarShip!" to anyone.  Asigning one on a short-term basis, maybe, but not just handing one over.

Yes, I'm aware that the sixth cruiser was only planned and never built. But I love to guess what her name might have been.  :)

AAG is building fighters on Marantha, with the Troika line on Detroit.  Majesty Metals and Manufacturing is building Leopards on Dunianshire, but probably not the one with the capital missiles.  That appears to be it for major Canopian aerospace manufacturing.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 January 2011, 10:01:59
No problem and I can sympathize on "might have beens".  I'd really like to have seen where the aerospace environment might have gone without the Jihad but with the existing design trends in PWSes acting as a tier of power between major combatants (destroyers and up) and more classic assault designs.  That would have been interesting.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 26 January 2011, 13:04:12
Cool! Nice to see the Canopian thread up an running again!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Batman on 26 January 2011, 14:04:55
There was a Canopian hangout before? I never got the memo.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daishi411 on 26 January 2011, 14:26:01
it was called crimson tide, started by Jim, but new ones are always cool!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Batman on 26 January 2011, 15:46:39
Well then ye gotcherself a new scallywag for this wee pirate kingdom.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 January 2011, 17:33:26
The only pirates we have are the Halloween costumers.

Hm, now here's a question.  Will ER62 comment further on the formation of the Ebon Magistrate?  That could well be fascinating...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 January 2011, 17:38:53
I... don't know.  I'm interested to find out, though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 26 January 2011, 18:20:09
Hi fellow Canopians!  :)

(2) The possible Canopian Feng Huang-class cruiser
Any hints on her name? Or the prefix of the Canopian Navy? My favourite would be MSS Kossandra.

(3)And on the Navy in general
What shipyards do we have in the Magistracy? And which Assault DropShips or - do I dare to ask of - Pocket WarShips do we produce?

Thank you!
I don't think the Cappies will be selling us any warships given their warship and shipyard deficit.  We don't have any shipyards of note.  We build Leopards, but all other yards in the Magistracy seem to be repair yards.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 January 2011, 18:22:53
Keeping things running is an excellent starting point to building out to your own construction.  It might be plausible to get the Aurora plans somehow, which wouldn't be too out of reach for a Leopard yard.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 26 January 2011, 18:36:23
Given the way the Aurora is constructed, I think everybody has Aurora plans by now.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 26 January 2011, 20:02:11
Very possible.

Also, if you can build Leopards, you CAN build the new Leopards.  CAN.  Doesn't mean DO.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 January 2011, 20:03:19
The upgraded model, possibly.  I'm not sure the Magistracy has a reliable source for the capital missile components needed for the PWS variant.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 26 January 2011, 20:36:36
It's a missile the size of a fighter with a semi-guided brain.

We're not talking...waitaminute...actually we ARE talking rocket science....in a world where FUSION science is the norm.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 January 2011, 20:47:22
Frankly I'll take plans and a factory to keep all those Dictators we got our hands on happy, and add a few more.  It may still be an overarmed Higgins boat, but it's a nice one nonetheless.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 27 January 2011, 00:10:08

In that case, I have a Vulcan that could use a pilot...  ;)

That is what the commander of the 1st Light Horse pilots.
Emma Centrella piloted one in her yonger years. Then again, this was the time her mother wanted her dead...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 27 January 2011, 08:24:39
I'm still hoping to get an answer to my question regarding Canopian nobility made earlier in this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 27 January 2011, 08:34:48
Emma Centrella piloted one in her yonger years. Then again, this was the time her mother wanted her dead...

Vulcans are pretty decent if they're used intelligently.  That AC/2 will keep you out of the middle of a scrap in 3025-land, at least, and it's fast enough to outrun most of the things that outgun it.  Not a bad 'Mech for a light or medium commander.

I'm still hoping to get an answer to my question regarding Canopian nobility made earlier in this thread.  :)

If I had one, I'd give it to you.  Unfortunately, I don't.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 27 January 2011, 09:28:25
No problem, Moonsword. It seems to me, there hasn't been much fluff publicated about the periphery states. But I don't know for sure, since I'm only recently interested into it. I only got HB:MPS and there this issue is not dealt with in depth. I somehow thought that periphery fans who are longer here than I would know more about it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 27 January 2011, 09:31:08
The older Periphery books might have more, although one of them (I forget which) is an error-prone trap that needs to be carefully checked against other sources before use.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 January 2011, 10:39:07
The original Periphery handbook.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 27 January 2011, 10:49:15
The original Periphery handbook.

Which, unfortunately, isn't available any more.  :-\
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 January 2011, 11:00:00
Which, unfortunately, isn't available any more.  :-\

Given the amount of errors in it, I don't think it's all that bad of a thing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 27 January 2011, 11:30:09
The older Periphery books might have more, although one of them (I forget which) is an error-prone trap that needs to be carefully checked against other sources before use.

Not so much error-prone as people think.  More like "heavily retconned by later work."

If you play in FASA's BattleTech the old House Books and Periphery are actually amazingly useful as supplements.

If you play in FanPro/Catalyst's BattleTech, those books get less useful as the years go by as more and more of them are retconned.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 27 January 2011, 11:37:28
Right now it's also a book that contains most of the information about the Reunification War. I wonder if upcoming Historical will make it compeletely obsolete.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 27 January 2011, 11:38:31
Huh. I thought HB: MPS out did it in Reunification info, what with the pretty maps and all.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 January 2011, 13:20:05
Handbook Major Periphery States was a pretty big let down if you were looking for info on the Reunification War. The original Periphery book still has the most info, including detailing some of the turning points for the Magistracy and the Star League forces. The info in Handbook MPS was pretty generic. (I have to admit, considering the book was supposed to be about the major, current Periphery states, I would've liked to have seen alot more details about the fighting in the current periphery states, both during the Reunification War and the Periphery Uprising that lead to the Amaris coup, instead of all the details on the RWR side of things..that really belongs in a Historical product. Sure, some is necessary, but I would've rather seen a shifted focus).

As for nobility, the best I can find right now is in the "Other Notable Personalities" section of Masters and Minions (in the MoC writeup, naturally) that states that Kamala Roy was given the title "Durachi Roy of Joyz." So its possible that the 3 ranks (Froness, Girin, Durachi) might be the only ranks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 27 January 2011, 13:53:01
Very possible.

Also, if you can build Leopards, you CAN build the new Leopards.  CAN.  Doesn't mean DO.  ;)

Hmmm.

How about a Pocket Warship based on the Leopard? Maybe something like the PT Boats of WWII.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 27 January 2011, 13:56:49
Like the one in TRO3075 that I mentioned?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 January 2011, 13:58:06
There are two out there..sort of. There's already a Leopard PWS IIRC, and there's a heavily modified Pirate Leopard from one of the XTROs. So it wouldn't be completely unrealistic (though it might be hard to make it unique enough to warrant a new one). You could also work in a nod to the fact that the Magistracy has traditionally armed their Leopards differently than everyone else.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 27 January 2011, 14:02:01
That pirate model isn't a pocket WarShip - no capital armament.  It's a lot more plausible for the Magistracy to be building, though, since their only source of capital missiles at present is likely to be the CC, which is apparently stingy about the things.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 January 2011, 15:22:19
Frankly I'll take plans and a factory to keep all those Dictators we got our hands on happy, and add a few more.  It may still be an overarmed Higgins boat, but it's a nice one nonetheless.
Considering that the Dictators were noted as being new, we've probably got a shipyard for that.  And I would like to see an assault ship variant.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 27 January 2011, 15:31:31
Like the one in TRO3075 that I mentioned?

Missed that.  :(
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 27 January 2011, 20:29:15
That pirate model isn't a pocket WarShip - no capital armament.  It's a lot more plausible for the Magistracy to be building, though, since their only source of capital missiles at present is likely to be the CC, which is apparently stingy about the things.

Or they could...you know...BUILD them.  Its not the big guns that make cap ships rare.  It is the huge engines that are hard to build.

Building a bigger thunderbolt missile launcher or three every month or so to place on a fracking SPACE SHIP that they already build is a piece of cake compared to building a Star League superduper mega WarShip.

;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 27 January 2011, 20:39:06
They might, but until we get some sign they have the infrastructure, I'm going to remain skeptical.  Besides, that particular "PWS" is not that impressive.  Dedicating resources to the project honestly doesn't accomplish much of a return for your investment.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Alexander Knight on 27 January 2011, 20:39:53
Because of course a Capital Missile Launcher is nothing but an overweight T-bolt tube, right?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 January 2011, 08:05:09
As for nobility, the best I can find right now is in the "Other Notable Personalities" section of Masters and Minions (in the MoC writeup, naturally) that states that Kamala Roy was given the title "Durachi Roy of Joyz." So its possible that the 3 ranks (Froness, Girin, Durachi) might be the only ranks.

Thank you! I totally missed the informations of M&M! Yes, the CEO of MindStar Enterprises was named Durachi of Roy. Additionally, in HB:MPS there is a Duchess mentioned as planetary ruler within the small planetary description section. So there are old and new noble titles. Hm... Maybe the Froness use the old ones and the Durachi and Girin are the new?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 January 2011, 09:31:57
FM: Mercenaries, Revised talks about some Canopian Count in the Lethal Injection entry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 28 January 2011, 10:55:36
FM: Mercenaries, Revised talks about some Canopian Count in the Lethal Injection entry.
Well, it talks less of Canopian Court and more of a generousity of a certain Canopian Colonel, whose name eludes me at the moment ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 January 2011, 10:58:53
Well, it talks less of Canopian Court and more of a generousity of a certain Canopian Colonel, whose name eludes me at the moment ;)

The Colonel is a Count.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 January 2011, 12:32:15
Intriguing.

So we do have traditional titles like duke and count and more Canopian typical ones like durachi. I really want to know how this works.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 28 January 2011, 12:51:35
Try Ask the Writers, maybe.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 January 2011, 13:47:21
Well, for Ms. Roy, she got her title granted to her. Count deSummersVille married into his. As a planetary ruler, the Duchess was likely born into royalty.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 January 2011, 13:49:40
Thank you! I totally missed the informations of M&M! Yes, the CEO of MindStar Enterprises was named Durachi of Roy. Additionally, in HB:MPS there is a Duchess mentioned as planetary ruler within the small planetary description section. So there are old and new noble titles. Hm... Maybe the Froness use the old ones and the Durachi and Girin are the new?

Well, she's Durachi Roy of Joyz, not Durachi of Roy :)

Its possible that the more traditional ranks are "sub-ranks." So you can have a Durachi Count and a Froness Count. Perhaps relatively teh same amount of wealth/power, but one comes from a founding family, the other made their money through business.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 January 2011, 15:19:11
Very interesting ideas!

Maybe I'll ask the writers in the official sectiion of the board.

Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 28 January 2011, 15:33:40
The Colonel is a Count.  ;)
You're right, it seems I misread 'county' as 'country'.

Count deSummersVille married into his.
You know, I sincerely hope that one day, when he's MAF commanding general, we'll see the story of his life in print :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 January 2011, 15:37:59
Second!

By the way, do all else here deem the MAF rank insignia as the most neat in the entire BT universe?  {>{>
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 28 January 2011, 17:33:20
Intriguing.

So we do have traditional titles like duke and count and more Canopian typical ones like durachi. I really want to know how this works.
I may be wrong, but titles like Duke and Count may be formal classifications, whereas Durachi may simply be a kind of nickname used among nobles for determining who to be a snob to.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 30 January 2011, 08:08:19
Has anyone tried out any of the new Canopian designs from the last two TROs?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 30 January 2011, 08:35:25
I wanted to ask the same question!  ;D

I haven't yet, but I'm really curious about our little Penthis. Especially the second, MAF only variant.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 30 January 2011, 08:53:08
Not yet but I'm going to be testing the Penthesilea some later this month after I get done with the Pillager article.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 30 January 2011, 09:26:47
Has anyone tried out any of the new Canopian designs from the last two TROs?
Used Eyleuka -45B a couple of times, a nasty little skirmisher she is.  Have yet to try all the other variants.

Penthesilea seems fine, though I'd take 2H over 2MAF, 'cause 28 sinks with 3 big guns (2 of them placed in the same location, generating 27 heat total) feels like an overkill to me.

Ebony... well, as a big fan of skirmishers in general and backstabbers in particular, I find MEB-9 and -10 a great addition to Canopian\Capellan forces. I have some qualms about MEB-11: its ammo-dependency can turn into a problem during a protracted battle, because when the tenth round is fired it loses not only its plasma rifle, but TSM as well.

Koschei -5MC is a great cavalry ride. I find it amusing how it uses 5 ER SL for close combat crit-seeking instead of traditional SRMs. Nice touch! I also have a certain affection for its name, because evil warlock Koschei the Deathless is a folk character that every Russian child knows (and fears }:)) from his or hers early years. Every time I build a cavalry force around this machine I can't help myself but imagine this picture of him (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Ivan_Bilibin_Koshchey.jpg) :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 30 January 2011, 10:05:00
Koschei -5MC is a great cavalry ride. I find it amusing how it uses 5 ER SL for close combat crit-seeking instead of traditional SRMs. Nice touch! I also have a certain affection for its name, because evil warlock Koschei the Deathless is a folk character that every Russian child knows (and fears }:)) from his or hers early years. Every time I build a cavalry force around this machine I can't help myself but imagine this picture of him (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Ivan_Bilibin_Koshchey.jpg) :)

Awesome! Thanks for the pic and the info about the name, RAE! Russian folklore has so many formidable tales to tell. I love it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 30 January 2011, 12:26:11
That was the great thing about a Russian-themed 'Mech, actual name choices.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 10:43:19
So, who will be the biggest threat to the Magistracy in the Dark Ages? The Marians maybe?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 10:54:37
I'm leaning toward Daoshen, honestly.  That guy is completely nucking futs.

If you're talking about states, probably the Hegemony, yeah.  Too far for Davion to be bothered unless you really tick them off, the Taurians have their own issues, and Andurien doesn't seem too likely to pick that fight.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 11:26:58
I don't deem the Chancellor a threat to the Magistracy, honestly. Not because I'm Capellan fan as well. But I'm convinced that he will uphold the alliance his father forged with Emma. And he certainly won't try to harm his sister.

The Marians OTOH are expansionists par excellence. I don't know in which state the Circinius Federation is, but they certainly won't try to mess with the new League. Thus Canopus seems to be the only target left. Only question is, how strong are they in the AoD?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 11:33:49
If the alliance has held firm?  Between their own increasing domestic defenses and the possibility of the Capellans coming in swinging in their defense, it's not something the Marians want to tangle with unless they consider it very carefully or have gotten one heck of a lot stronger militarily.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 11:49:38
I think a rebuilding FWL might try and take a chunk out of the Magistracy for some sort of solidarity operation.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 12:09:54
If the alliance has held firm?  Between their own increasing domestic defenses and the possibility of the Capellans coming in swinging in their defense, it's not something the Marians want to tangle with unless they consider it very carefully or have gotten one heck of a lot stronger militarily.

But what if the CCAF have their hands full with battling the Republic and maybe the FedSun's?

I think a rebuilding FWL might try and take a chunk out of the Magistracy for some sort of solidarity operation.

 [AAAH]

I really don't hope so. After all, the nascent FWL is struggling to survive against the Lyrans, Wolves, Regulans and propable the RAF in the near future. Why making further the MoC, CC and maybe even the DoA an enemy of themselves?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 12:22:37
I don't see the Marians as having enough force to be able to project that far that they really want to try a full-scale invasion against the Magistracy alone, let alone with the CC, unless a significant chunk of the MAF is off fighting the CC's wars.  However, I don't know enough about the Marian and Magistracy militaries in the Dark Age to comment one way or the other.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 12:26:29
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to get infos on the Dark Age Magistracy and Periphery in general.

BTW: A brief look on the AoD map of the IS seems to indicate Circinius ceased to exist. Yes, both the nation and the world proper don't occur anymore on the map.  :o
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 12:35:36
It may just not be important anymore.  The Periphery maps have never charted everywhere the way the IS does, just the important worlds.  That's one reason the world density goes down.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 12:45:25
Density is way down.

Quote from: Touring the Stars
Further rimward, past the shattered remains of the Circinus Federation (a pirate state cut almost from the same cloth as the Marian Hegemony, but annihilated in the final years of the Jihad along with its capital world)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 12:52:31
Ah, thanks for the update, Kit.

Well, if there is no Circinius Federation anymore, than the Marians can reap the worlds in this area without any resistance. What could make them eyeing the Magistracy with increasing greed even more.  :-\

We certainly have to be prepared for them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 13:01:41
Density is way down.

Man, someone was evidently not happy with their little wannabee Shadow Divisions, I take it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 13:21:36
Someone labeled it "Texas" on Herb's Jihad map.
 ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 31 January 2011, 14:41:06
Don't forget that the Magistracy lost quite a few planet, including the one closest to the Hegemony, so that might give the Hegemony reason to jump a little closer to the Magistracy in order to snag those seemingly independent planets.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 15:35:36
Thraxa and Vixen.

How on earth did we loose them?

PS: The last thing we need is a closer border to the Hegemony due to Canopian worlds picked up by the Marians.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 15:36:35
Maybe the devourers started breeding too fast.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 15:39:43
Maybe the devourers started breeding too fast.

Well, I hope the devourers will digest togas.  [watch]  ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 15:40:36
Well, I hope the devourers will digest togas.  [watch]  ^-^

If they can eat Taurians, they can eat anything.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 15:41:34
"Devourers"?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 15:44:27
You're right, of course. Nothing harder to swallow than chewy beef.

"Devourers"?

One of the many awesome creatures from HB:MPS. Lovely carnivores native to Thraxa!  [skull]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 15:46:36
Responsible for the death and digestion of Ian Calderon.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 15:50:35
You know Kit, I really love your sense of humor.  ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 15:52:43
I have to imagine when Herb told me to kill him off, being eaten was not one of the possibilities he'd considered.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 15:53:44
That's... probably not what he had in mind, no.  What was his response?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 January 2011, 15:55:44
That's... probably not what he had in mind, no.  What was his response?

I dunno, I just wrote it and off it went into the editing cycle.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 January 2011, 16:00:52
And since we have an awesome dreadful image of a devourer from the handbook its even more daunting.  }:)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 31 January 2011, 17:25:47
So, who will be the biggest threat to the Magistracy in the Dark Ages? The Marians maybe?
  I don't think anyone will be attacking the MoC within its traditional borders except pirates. 
  We will see combat because we'll be along for the ride in any Capellan adventurism.  I think we'll have minimal troubles with the Marians because they know they will be up against the Cappies as well.  It would just be easier for the Marians to annex any un-affiliated FWL worlds.
  I agree that the FWL is unlikely to be a significant threat considering they're busy with the Clans and any temptingly under-defended Republic worlds, although there will be scuffles.  In Surrender Your Dreams (?), it was implied that the Cappies will now be fighting the FWL in support of Andurien.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 31 January 2011, 18:52:03
Thraxa for a while now has been described as a hotbed for Independence (but not separatism). Its possible that if they were left alone, or had to deal with the WoB on their own, that they finally decided to say "Well, the Marians are rebuilding, so we don't have to deal with them, lets try this on our own.

The rest of the worlds seem to be recently rediscovered worlds, so its possible that they were unsupportable at the time. Still, rather annoying. It actually comes out to be a good chunk of the Magistracy worlds, IIRC.

Then again, I'm trying to figure out why the Magistracy doesn't own Aspropirgos. Frankly, if I'm the one that kicks the Shadow Division off the planet, I'm taking it :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 01 February 2011, 17:09:23
The Marians may have thought that if we didn't want Thraxa, I wasn't worth taking.   Besides, they had more promising targets in the FWL and former the Circinus worlds.  They may have their hands full just keeping them in line.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 February 2011, 17:45:37
Those Thraxan snow troopers are no fun to fight.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coyote_808 on 02 February 2011, 02:32:41
Those Thraxan snow troopers are no fun to fight.

Can they make a well placed blaster shot at over 300 yards?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 02 February 2011, 09:30:28
Can they make a well placed blaster shot at over 300 yards?
Like anyone else with the description "snow trooper" can?

I wonder, hey Kit - has anyone done Devourer-mounted infantry? (if it isn't attacking something, take 1d6/2 damage to your own force)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 02 February 2011, 10:23:05
No, but I have seen Orca mounted infantry somewhere.

Take that, Bo Derek!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 02 February 2011, 10:25:12
There's supposed to be plans for an equation to convert rideable creatures into BT infantry mounts or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 02 February 2011, 17:26:08
Those Thraxan snow troopers are no fun to fight.
I picture a bunch of guys on skis with rifles. :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 05 February 2011, 08:41:29
Does anyone have a wish-list for future designs?  Personally, I'd like to see an Arrow IV version of the Pike.  I was also wondering if we could licence the Golden age Lupus from the Diamond Sharks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 05 February 2011, 11:26:30
Wow, talk about different. One of those is pretty probable, the other pie-in-the-sky wishing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 05 February 2011, 17:51:43
You gotta have dreams. :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dragon Cat on 05 February 2011, 18:13:58
Anyone with info on Danai Centrella? the person not the tank
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 February 2011, 19:22:29
There's just not alot of information out there on her. She and Naomi didn't even appear in the 2nd Periphery book as far as I know, and was dead by the time FM:Periphery came out.

She appears in minor roles in the novels "Double Blind" and "Prince of Havoc" though she doesn't speak in Prince of Havoc..I'm not even sure she speaks in Double Blind to be honest.

We know that she normally pilots a Banshee (What variant is unknown) has amber eyes, and was considered a better MechWarrior than her sister Naomi at one point in time (post fighting in the Jihad, who knows).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daishi411 on 05 February 2011, 19:25:15
if she used a battlemaster what in the world made her switch to a falconer to fight the clans, she must have been crazy
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 February 2011, 21:08:16
Oops, my mistake. BattleMaster should've been "Banshee." I was thinking of something else when I typed that.

The only thing I can think of is that she didn't travel with her `Mech. Maybe she left it back with the rest of her unit and just hopped a ride to Strana Mechty, and thus didn't have her Banshee with her.

Reading the novel, personally I blame Victor and Galen for her death. They teamed up on a Stormcrow with their Devastator and Dire Wolf, while she got stuck tangling with a Warhawk.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: AirmanR on 05 February 2011, 21:28:48
The Inner Sphere is responsible for everything bad that happens to the Periphery :( In fact, the reason so little is written about the Periphery is because Catalyst game designers were told that if they wanted their great great great great great grandchildren to lead healthy lives in the future, that they better be mean to the Periphery! It's true!! :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 February 2011, 08:01:24
Reading the novel, personally I blame Victor and Galen for her death. They teamed up on a Stormcrow with their Devastator and Dire Wolf, while she got stuck tangling with a Warhawk.
I think you're being a little harsh.  In the heat of battle, it can be difficult to know who is in trouble when they're not screaming for help.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 06 February 2011, 09:13:09
Anyone with info on Danai Centrella? the person not the tank

IIRC, it was her who convinced Haji Doru to serve then-Magestrix Emma Centrella (her mother) as first senior general. The two met during Operation Bulldog. Doru left his native realm, the Taurian Concordat, as a military genius but with feelings of being misunderstood after he stept up to then-Protector Thomas Calderon's unfair politics and helped replace him with his son Jeffrey Calderon. He drifted through the Inner Sphere for a while until he met Danai. She told him that he would always be a son of the Periphery and that those realms still need him. That he should serve the MAF and reform them and subsequently strengthen the Concordat as well through the Trinity Alliance. He initially refused, but when she was killed in action he travelled to Canopus IV and was surprised that Danai had already invested a huge portion of her wealth to buy him the rank of Colonel (the then-highest rank in the MAF). After talking to Emma he accepted and became senior general and reformed the MAF. Due to Danai, his loyality to the Magistracy is unswervingly.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 February 2011, 14:44:43
For that alone, she should get a postumous medal.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 06 February 2011, 14:53:27
For that alone, she should get a postumous medal.

Second! I'm a huuuuge fan of Hadji Doru! And it seems she was a similar gorgeous woman and personality. Huge loss there...



Okay, here are some thoughts on naval developement for the Magistracy in the AoD.

Prior to the Jihad, the MoC was able to maintain its DropShips and maybe even its JumpShips. The navy was even able to build Leopard-class DropShips. As far as we know, no naval infrastructure was damaged or destroyed by the Blakists. And we don't have any informations of similiar losses during the upcoming Dark Age. Given the fact that the major battles in this era are focusing on the RotS and its adjacent neighbours, I deem such reduction of naval infrastructure unlikely. Additionally, it seems likely that due to not being targeted by major Inne Sphere powers, the Magistracy could rebuild a lot of lost economical power. Therefore, I think it wouldn't be too odd to expect a slightly better naval infrastructure then prior the Jihad. Since we know that WarShips won't be so wide-spread again as of earlier ages, this is no option, of course. So-called Pocket WarShips seem to step into this role. In such a situation, would you deem Canopian production of, let's say, small JumpShips and maybe the upgraded version of Achilles-class DropShips to be expected too much? Technological knowledge could be provided by the Confederation and a long time of peace and economical recovery, maybe even growth, could provide for financing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 February 2011, 15:07:03
I'd start from the ground up with a new pocket warship.  Make it about 50k tons and give it obcene amounts of armor, sub-capital weapons and screen launchers.  Maybe even 12 fighters.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 06 February 2011, 15:19:54
In such a situation, would you deem Canopian production of, let's say, small JumpShips and maybe the upgraded version of Achilles-class DropShips to be expected too much? Technological knowledge could be provided by the Confederation and a long time of peace and economical recovery, maybe even growth, could provide for financing.

It's possible but I expect the CC is going to be investing in rebuilding its own infrastructure in the immediate future.  An Achilles wouldn't be unreasonable, though, if they can get a line together.  Give a decade or so, I think.

I'd start from the ground up with a new pocket warship.  Make it about 50k tons and give it obcene amounts of armor, sub-capital weapons and screen launchers.  Maybe even 12 fighters.

Or how about starting with something small and manageable that their infrastructure might be able to actually build and wouldn't break the bank?  This isn't the Lyran Alliance building the Mjolnirs here, guys, no national obsession with "Bigger!  It must be bigger!"  That's probably out of range for the Houses to be doing at this point, let alone someone with comparatively limited infrastructure.  The Tiamat is a case of the Republic already having the lines and plans to do the job.  Considering what the Magistracy sees, something in the 6k ton range with obscene amounts of armor would be more reasonable and still capable of meeting a lot of threats.  Maybe a light carrier, too.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 06 February 2011, 15:24:42
I'd start from the ground up with a new pocket warship.  Make it about 50k tons and give it obcene amounts of armor, sub-capital weapons and screen launchers.  Maybe even 12 fighters.

I'd love to see a genuine Canopian Pocket WarShip! O0

But aren't 20k the limit for military DropShips?


It's possible but I expect the CC is going to be investing in rebuilding its own infrastructure in the immediate future.  An Achilles wouldn't be unreasonable, though, if they can get a line together.  Give a decade or so, I think.

Or how about starting with something small and manageable that their infrastructure might be able to actually build and wouldn't break the bank?  This isn't the Lyran Alliance building the Mjolnirs here, guys, no national obsession with "Bigger!  It must be bigger!"  That's probably out of range for the Houses to be doing at this point, let alone someone with comparatively limited infrastructure.  The Tiamat is a case of the Republic already having the lines and plans to do the job.  Considering what the Magistracy sees, something in the 6k ton range with obscene amounts of armor would be more reasonable and still capable of meeting a lot of threats.  Maybe a light carrier, too.

The upgraded Achilles would be awesome! If we could put it or some similar design in production at a Canopian shipyard that would be only logical, wouldn't it? A fighter carrier would be awesome as well. :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 06 February 2011, 15:25:24
I find the idea of the Periphery in general building Pocket WarShips to be very acceptable.  They can build DropShips.  Pocket WarShips are no more crazy when it comes to tech.

JumpShips?  That's a harder questions.  Ships that big pretty much HAVE to be built in space, especially since modern JumpShips don't have the engines to get out of a gravity well.  I'd like to see it, I just don't know if we WILL.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 February 2011, 15:51:16
Well, there's the Dictator mystery, so we should keep that in mind. Also, HB:MPS states that there were rumors of the Magistracy restarting the Princess-class liner production, so depending on damage, there might be another DropShip line that's close to being reopened that could be retasked (or used to provide revenue).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 06 February 2011, 15:59:33
I'd tend toward something small for cost reasons - both end cost and R&D.  Small, fast, and tough with a decent amount of firepower can be quite dangerous.  Just look at the Dragau.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Korzon77 on 06 February 2011, 18:13:56
Yeah, the periphery would want something cheap enough to be able to afford to lose-- and don't forget it has to be numerous enough that pirates-- the bane of many periphery worlds can't be confident that there arne't a few hanging about-- if you build a 50K supership, it's comfortably certain they'll be pricey enough to be kept at vital systems.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 06 February 2011, 18:31:05
You can make a 5-6k DropShip into a very tough nut to crack, frankly.  Proportionally, the Tiamat is actually not as tough as a number of the smaller hulls - it wraps a lot less armor around the guns it carries for its size than, say, an Arondight or Taihou, to say nothing of the Dragau.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 07 February 2011, 08:29:03
I want my little Periphery Assault DropShip!  :P

As Moonsword said. 4k to 6k, tough and well armored, though keen enough to build a whole flotilla of them to have enough for both anti-pirate patrols and defense of core systems.

Since we're talking about the Periphery, which doesn't get the newest toys available instantly, the upgraded Achilles-class, introduced in 3055 would fit that role quite perfect, wouln't it?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 07 February 2011, 09:00:30
I'd standardize completely on Gauss rifles for my autocannons, but otherwise, yeah, it's just about exactly what you need for general work.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 07 February 2011, 16:26:12
But aren't 20k the limit for military DropShips?
My quick scan of Techmanual put no limits on military dropship sizes below 100K tons.

Or how about starting with something small and manageable that their infrastructure might be able to actually build and wouldn't break the bank? 
It needs to be durable otherwise they'll end up getting destroyed.  Then, we have to go through the expense of building a replacement ship and training a new crew.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 07 February 2011, 16:53:25
My quick scan of Techmanual put no limits on military dropship sizes below 100K tons.

As I noted, it's a fluff limit, and it's mentioned in TW, not TM.

It needs to be durable otherwise they'll end up getting destroyed.  Then, we have to go through the expense of building a replacement ship and training a new crew.

You can make a 5-6k DropShip into a very tough nut to crack, frankly.  Proportionally, the Tiamat is actually not as tough as a number of the smaller hulls - it wraps a lot less armor around the guns it carries for its size than, say, an Arondight or Taihou, to say nothing of the Dragau.

To expand on that, you actually pay less in tonnage for a given level of protection on a smaller hull, although exactly where the lines fall for armor depends on whether you're dealing with an aerodyne or a spheroid.  And again, costs and mass production both favor small, capable hulls over a very limited number of supersized vessels.  Cray - generally a reliable authority on the matter - gave some very solid reasoning on the subject a couple of times on the old boards if you dig around.  At least one poster didn't agree with him but the posts are worth reviewing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 08 February 2011, 16:11:17
On a seperate note, it occured to me this morning that in the DA, the Majistracy got back a pair of industrial worlds that it lost during the Re-Unification war: Claybrooke and Thurrock.  This could significantly increase the Magistracy economy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 08 February 2011, 16:44:27
What were / are their primary products?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 09 February 2011, 00:12:41
The only limit is the 35KT cap for Aerodynes, but a Spheroid can indeed go to 100.  And land and take off, if it has sufficient thrust, despite what some folks on the forums might believe.

That said, the  idea of a proper Leopard gunship would be amusing.  Not the pee-whiz of 3075, but just pulling one or two mech bays for cargo and armor tonnage, the other four bays for guns, fire control, crew, and ammo.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 09 February 2011, 16:10:31
What were / are their primary products?
Nothing notable in terms of military production.  But the added GNP can allow for more military purchases elsewhere.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 February 2011, 21:30:17
If not for the thread title's third line, i wouldve had thought this is a place for Slaneshi Cults.

Hello Canopians.

I also notice that the CC gets Joppa, a Canopian world, in the DA map. How is it possible a Canopian world gets "annexed" by their married allies?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 09 February 2011, 21:43:09
I also notice that the CC gets Joppa, a Canopian world, in the DA map. How is it possible a Canopian world gets "annexed" by their married allies?
We don't know yet. My guess, is that there will be some kind of conflict in that region of space involving Magistracy/Fronc Reaches/Taurian Concordat/Duchy of Andurien/someone else, and the Confederation will use it as a pretext to take control of Detroit and Joppa for "their own protection". It's worth noting that the CapCon also has several new colonies in the region (named after fallen Warrior House Masters), expanding its influence further rimward.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 February 2011, 22:56:52
That is a good theory too, since the Capellans also get two Taurian worlds, moving them a jump away from the Taurus itself
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 February 2011, 23:56:29
The Victoria War, or whatever the conflict is the Capellans have with the Davions could also involve those planets, which could explain the swap as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 February 2011, 01:26:42
Considering it was a private war between the Haseks and House Liao, i think the Taurians wouldn't be involved.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 10 February 2011, 01:44:02
The Victoria War, or whatever the conflict is the Capellans have with the Davions could also involve those planets, which could explain the swap as well.
I really don't think it was that big. From the minuscule amount of information we have about the Victoria War, it looks like the Haseks just stabbed the Confederation in the back, while the Capellans were busy tangling with the Republic and, for some reason, the Chancellor deemed it unnecessary to waste resources prepared for the invasion into the RotS to reclaim the planet from Davions (my guess is that Shengli Arms just pulled the same thing Tao Mechworks did in 3085 and sabotaged the facility, moving their main production lines to some other site, thus rendering the planet importance to much lower level).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 February 2011, 02:17:10
Since it is also a Commonality capital, with the Capellan penchant for irredentist grievances, i doubt it was that simple a matter.

Where's the Tao Mechworks thing from? TRO 3085?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 10 February 2011, 02:47:04
Since it is also a Commonality capital, with the Capellan penchant for irredentist grievances, i doubt it was that simple a matter.
I guess so, but consider this: we know, that the CapCon constantly fought with the Republic over the Liao Commonality worlds in the years before and after the Victoria War, raiding, nurturing the resistance movements and terrorist cells, and staging at least one major invasion in 3110-3113, which saw the deaths of Sun-Tzu, Kai Allard-Liao and Burton Davion. So, the Capellans had the resources to wage a prolonged war if they wanted to, but for some reason the long lost Liao Commonality worlds were considered more important for the Confederation by both Sun-Tzu and Daoshen than recently captured Victoria.

Where's the Tao Mechworks thing from? TRO 3085?
Yep, Crusader entry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 10 February 2011, 04:56:06
The same question can be asked about Detroit and its Mech factories. It switched flags in the AoD from Canopian to Capellan. As I speculated in another thread, the Confederation maybe annexed it without further ado due to the loss of Victoria and its Mech production sites. Quasi a kind of compensatory as long as Victoria is under Davion oppression.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 February 2011, 05:27:03
I think the Confederation did not wish to fight two enemies on two fronts, so they let the loss of Victoria lie.

On the other hand, PrudentPanda, if that were so, it would be a move worthy of Sun-Tzu Liao's cunning and an interesting twist to the plot.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 10 February 2011, 12:56:02
I also notice that the CC gets Joppa, a Canopian world, in the DA map. How is it possible a Canopian world gets "annexed" by their married allies?

Wedding present.  }:)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: vaderi on 10 February 2011, 13:27:27
Wedding present.  }:)

Considering CC's history with wedding presents don't you think that's a little small  ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 10 February 2011, 16:43:08
The same question can be asked about Detroit and its Mech factories. It switched flags in the AoD from Canopian to Capellan. As I speculated in another thread, the Confederation maybe annexed it without further ado due to the loss of Victoria and its Mech production sites. Quasi a kind of compensatory as long as Victoria is under Davion oppression.
But why should the MoC have to give up its worlds just because the Cappies lost theirs?  If the factories were moved, that would be one thing...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 10 February 2011, 18:38:59
But why should the MoC have to give up its worlds just because the Cappies lost theirs?  If the factories were moved, that would be one thing...

Because the Capellans needed to offset the loss of Victoria and likely seized upon an expedient means to do so.  "Fair" is a concept that has little to do with international politics.  Nations don't have friends, they have allies, and alliances are as much (and generally more) creatures of convenience and mutual interest as they are affection.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 February 2011, 21:27:47
I'm sure the press releases were a bit different than "Detroit is getting handed over to the Capellans."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 February 2011, 04:48:34
Wedding present.  }:)

"Husband, in honor of our marriage, in addition to this morsel i give you a vast prize. My dear Sun-Tzu, i give you Detroit and Joppa!"
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 February 2011, 16:39:23
Because the Capellans needed to offset the loss of Victoria and likely seized upon an expedient means to do so.  "Fair" is a concept that has little to do with international politics.  Nations don't have friends, they have allies, and alliances are as much (and generally more) creatures of convenience and mutual interest as they are affection.
If that was the excuse used, Naomi would have been impeached.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 11 February 2011, 16:53:04
I didn't say it was the excuse used.  I said it was probably the logic behind the Capellan actions.  We don't have the full context around it yet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 February 2011, 08:44:31
Well, there better be a good explanation, otherwise governments will fall.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HuronWarrior on 12 February 2011, 09:26:32
If that was the excuse used, Naomi would have been impeached.
What would be a good excuse?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 12 February 2011, 10:16:18
What would be a good excuse?

I'm not sure there's a good one for your aggressive neighbor suddenly taking over a factory world on your border that a fair amount of your military output was coming from.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 12 February 2011, 13:33:11
I think the main reason is that Dark Age screwed up again.

Now TPTB have the unenviable task of fixing up the mess.

Perhaps the planet was traded for a set period of time, in trade for a few battalions of top of the line Battlemechs?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 13 February 2011, 07:50:31
I wonder if TPTB will just say that the map  is in error.  Majistracy is spelled wrong.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 13 February 2011, 08:36:42
I wonder if TPTB will just say that the map  is in error.  Majistracy is spelled wrong.

 ;D

Reminds me how some of the blister packs were spelled wrong, like "Centurian"
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HuronWarrior on 13 February 2011, 10:30:01
Perhaps the map is accurate, and just dominates who is in charge in the alliance. The CapCon used the Concordat, and seems to be using the Magistracy too.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 13 February 2011, 16:45:15
I'm just hoping they moved the factories to Canopian space before the handover.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HuronWarrior on 13 February 2011, 17:42:07
I can understand why you would, but I doubt the annexation would take place at all if the Confed wasn't getting factories.  :P
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 14 February 2011, 02:17:48
As of 3086, we're already seeing an increase in production on worlds well within Canopian space, with the Penthesilea being a big example.  What would the difference be if Detroit had the House Liao emblem flying over it?  The alliance with the Confederation most definitely isn't off by or 3130 or anything, so it's not like access to the machines that roll off Detroit's lines would be restricted more than they were during the Trinity Alliance years.

Maybe the consequences of the Victoria War meant that the Magistracy couldn't support Detroit with a decent supply and/or logistics train, or maybe Detroit was simply found to not be as defensible by Canopian troops needed on the FWL-s or Rim/Marian or Taurian or FedSuns or Republic border?

My point is that any hand-off, if canon, wouldn't really affect much, since at this point we're really looking at the new Federated Commonwealth anyways, with regards to armed forces deployment.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 February 2011, 03:26:03
There are only very few units of both realms not deployed on their home territory. That said, the Canopians only got the Penthesilea after they made noises of not getting a home-grown high-tech 'Mech
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 14 February 2011, 15:16:18
There are only very few units of both realms not deployed on their home territory. That said, the Canopians only got the Penthesilea after they made noises of not getting a home-grown high-tech 'Mech
Well, at least it happened.  Still, the idea of not having to fear ANOTHER faction turning around and stabbing a Magistracy world in the back seems appealing to me.  If the Capellans lose Detroit too, then you can blame it on them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 February 2011, 15:23:57
I'm sure the grumblers weren't worried about Detroit being lost to the Capellans so much as the other folks to the 'east'.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 February 2011, 10:54:27
I would love to know how the common Camopian citizen feels about the alliance (practical merging) in the 3100`s.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 15 February 2011, 12:10:33
The biggest loss is probably money. Losing a planet like that is probably a noticeable chunk lost in taxes/revenue. Not to mention as of 3085, its probably producing about the same number of modern designs as the rest of the Magistracy. Its a pretty big loss.

One other possibility might be that the Taurians threw a hissy fit about the Magistracy owning the planet, and the Capellans stepped in as 'neutral' arbitrators to make sure the weapons kept flowing three ways.

Doesn't explain Joppa though. Combine that with other losses, and people wonder :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 15 February 2011, 12:49:53
One other possibility might be that the Taurians threw a hissy fit about the Magistracy owning the planet, and the Capellans stepped in as 'neutral' arbitrators to make sure the weapons kept flowing three ways.

Hadn't the Taurians basically withdrawn from the Alliance at that point?  I know the Capellans had to scrounge around for a replacement engine they had been getting from the Concordat for one of the Reseen.  *checks TRO3085*  The Warner 270M from the PXH-4L Phoenix Hawks was replaced by Plasmastar 270s from StarCorps on the PXH-5L and possibly on any continuing PXH-4L construction (if there is any - that's supposition on my part).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 15 February 2011, 17:35:19
Be nice if they'd switch the 5Ws to 4Ls.  Or continue limited runs or something.  Its a great Mech for the MAF.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 16 February 2011, 06:20:20
I would love to know how the common Camopian citizen feels about the alliance (practical merging) in the 3100`s.

I imagine the conquest of the Great House by marriage pleased them quite a bit. ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: vaderi on 16 February 2011, 14:24:56
It's interesting speculation especially considering the appearances by the Magistracy in AOD
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 16 February 2011, 17:03:40
I'm counting on the Cappies being slowly assimilated after Daoshen kicks the bucket. ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HuronWarrior on 16 February 2011, 17:18:20
One other possibility might be that the Taurians threw a hissy fit about the Magistracy owning the planet, and the Capellans stepped in as 'neutral' arbitrators to make sure the weapons kept flowing three ways.
Not really a hissy fit when something that is part theirs is stolen from them. Sort of surprised they didn't decide to give the factory a nuclear farewell, seeing as they've nuked less important targets.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klep on 17 February 2011, 11:38:15
I'm counting on the Cappies being slowly assimilated after Daoshen kicks the bucket. ;D
If you really want us too, ok.  I guess we'll start by re-establishing the Sarna March....  ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 February 2011, 16:51:51
No, we'll take those worlds too.  Thank you for the offer, though. #P
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 17 February 2011, 17:24:48
If you really want us too, ok.  I guess we'll start by re-establishing the Sarna March....  ;D

The Feddies wonder why nobody likes the Fed Suns: its because they're such killjoys!  8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 17 February 2011, 17:28:25
Especially when they want Steiner property.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 17 February 2011, 17:29:38
Especially when they want Steiner property.

Damn straight! They're like poor relatives.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 February 2011, 16:48:20
Just the same, the MoC should be the ones to take those worlds.  The Feddies and Cappies will both need massive amounts of force and bloodshed.  The MoC will only need one pleasure circus per world to pacify them.  }:)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShadowRaven on 18 February 2011, 17:13:30
Not even one per world. One per 30 some light year raidus of influence should do it. Land, pleasure everyone senseless for a week, move on to the next, in circuit so that they each have time to recover between visits.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 18 February 2011, 17:36:22
I very much doubt you can compete with the Davion interest in sheep.

In any case, does anyone have any idea what sort of 'Mechs would've been typical for the Magistracy back in the old days other than the classic Bugs?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 18 February 2011, 19:02:44
I very much doubt you can compete with the Davion interest in sheep.


The Magistracy has merfolk, they can have Sheeple.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 February 2011, 21:18:42
I very much doubt you can compete with the Davion interest in sheep.

In any case, does anyone have any idea what sort of 'Mechs would've been typical for the Magistracy back in the old days other than the classic Bugs?

Which old days? I believe there's fluff stating that the Magistracy was purchasing designs from the Lyrans prior to the Reunification War (And I'd really like to recall where that is, so if someone happens to know...). Amaris Crisis, its a little bit harder to figure out, since we have no clue what designs were being produced for the hidden army.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShadowRaven on 18 February 2011, 22:31:46
Mackies. if there is anyone that would want to have a force of those for purley asthetic reasons, it's the MoC
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 18 February 2011, 22:51:23
The Magistracy has merfolk, they can have Sheeple.

Actually, we are more interested in freeing the Capellan's sheeple, thank you very much.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 18 February 2011, 23:33:27
Which old days? I believe there's fluff stating that the Magistracy was purchasing designs from the Lyrans prior to the Reunification War (And I'd really like to recall where that is, so if someone happens to know...).
That bit is from XTRO: Primitives, Vol.1.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 19 February 2011, 08:42:39
I was talking about 3025.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RAE on 19 February 2011, 10:56:58
I was talking about 3025.
Shadow Hawks, I guess.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: hpackrat on 19 February 2011, 22:00:26
Out of curiosity, what vehicles did the Canopians field in 3025 aside for the Manticore MBT?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 20 February 2011, 06:49:21
The Pike and any Quickscell product.

The Canopians also have a lot of the Phoenix 'Mechs, since those were secretly snapped up by their rebuilt armies prior to the 2760s rebellions
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 February 2011, 14:28:30
That bit is from XTRO: Primitives, Vol.1.

Aha! Thank you.

I was talking about 3025.

The Bug Trio, plus Shadow Hawks, plus whatever they've managed to keep working since the Amaris Crisis, and whatever they've been able to salvage or buy. The best bet is probably anything from TR 3025.

The Canopians also have a lot of the Phoenix 'Mechs, since those were secretly snapped up by their rebuilt armies prior to the 2760s rebellions

Source on that? Seems rather surprising that those were mostly made out of Phoenix designs as opposed to others.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: hpackrat on 20 February 2011, 18:21:39
The Pike and any Quickscell product.

The Canopians also have a lot of the Phoenix 'Mechs, since those were secretly snapped up by their rebuilt armies prior to the 2760s rebellions

Thanks, though I was under the impression that the Majestrix had ordered a halt to imports to rely more on local production.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 21 February 2011, 07:53:50
In what time period?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: hpackrat on 21 February 2011, 22:10:38
In what time period?

I think it was in 3025 from the original Periphery book. Not sure though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 22 February 2011, 07:45:15
In any time period, I doubt any government is going to halt imports of military equiptment.  This is especially true in the period before the Helm memory core discovery.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 22 February 2011, 15:09:02
The Pike writeup mentions that the Magestrix was looking to increase exports, believing the Successor States would be ripe for a cheap combat vehicle. Not sure if I recall anything about the Magistracy reducing imports, though I could see why they'd want to.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: hpackrat on 22 February 2011, 20:05:57
Hmm... Ah! Here we go... It's listed in the Periphery book under the MoC's socioeconomics: "An official ban on importation of Inner Sphere technologies (except for military technology obtained from the Taurian Concordat) has further hampered economic development. Recent efforts by Magestrix Kyalla Centrella to trade the services of Canopian physicians for Inner Sphere technicians and business experts may begin to change this situation."

So unless Quikscell has a factory in the Concordat, it's unlikely that the MAF has imported any of their products outside of salvage as of 3025. That might have changed at a later date. This implies they import Vedette & Hunter tanks from the TC. If their bank accounts could afford it, they also imported Seydiltz, Lightning, Chippewa & Thunderbird ASFs as well as Commandos, Griffins, Thunderbolts, Archers, Warhammers & Marauders...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 23 February 2011, 01:29:23
How long has Kyalla been dead? It's not terribly recent these days.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 February 2011, 02:14:46
Sure, but when the original question was "What did the Magistracy field in 3025" knowing that the Magistracy severely limited imports could shed some light on that.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 24 February 2011, 08:06:39
Which version of the Marauder was being built at the time?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 24 February 2011, 08:16:37
It's definitely something in the MAD-3 line at that point.  Judging from the comments in TRO3039 on the variants and the way they're closely associated with the Houses, it's probably the MAD-3R.  Seeing any of the three factional variants turn up in anyone's hands (especially the MAD-3D, which lacks the AC/5 ammo so infamous for rendering the whole thing unsalvagable) really wouldn't be difficult to justify, though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 February 2011, 12:07:15
Do we even know if a Marauder variant was being produced in 3025? For all we know its a modern line.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 24 February 2011, 12:15:25
I don't know - I assumed so based on his question.  TRO3039 certainly doesn't discount the possibility since it mentions the Marauder in production in the Periphery.  It might be referring to the Concordat, though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 24 February 2011, 13:05:22
I don't know - I assumed so based on his question.  TRO3039 certainly doesn't discount the possibility since it mentions the Marauder in production in the Periphery.  It might be referring to the Concordat, though.

 I think the TC is the only Marauder producer in the near periphery pre-Trinity Alliance times.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 24 February 2011, 23:20:36
And at the time it built the standard 3R variant.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 24 February 2011, 23:24:13
Going as far as Objective Raids, the MoC only produced SHD-2H and the baseline bug trio.  The Marauders came later.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 February 2011, 01:21:42
Source on that? Seems rather surprising that those were mostly made out of Phoenix designs as opposed to others.

Well, the Periphery BattleMech factories, with the exception of Mountain Wolf, were building L1 Phoenix 'Mechs (VMI, TTI, MMM) and all of them got snapped up by Amaris agents and were given to the three nations rebelling against the Star League, which fielded over 50 divisions (sources: HB:MPS, FM:P). Since the MAF has a policy of taking great pains to preserve their 'Mechs, and the SLDF let them off lightly compared to the TDF, it stands to reason that most of the MAF 'Mechs post-Star League would have large numbers of L1 Phoenix 'Mechs.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 February 2011, 02:12:29
Oh, I agree they probably have a bunch of the Phoenix `Mechs, I was just wondering about the comment "...since they were snapped up prior to the 2760's."  I was just wondering if there's anything that says they mostly had Project Phoenix `Mechs back in the 2760s, as opposed to say, snapping up Hunchbacks as well, and via randomness, Phoenix were the only designs they were still able to produce past 2800.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 February 2011, 04:24:08
Havent come across anything definitive like that. Before CGL, mostly it was the Taurian military that got fleshed out more among the Periphery militaries, especially in TRO 3039's PP section.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 February 2011, 17:50:42
Anyone used the Danai Support Vehicle yet? Is it too limited with only a single ton of ammo?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 26 February 2011, 08:15:12
That's 20 shots.  I have never played a game that went 20 turns.  Granted, you could play a game where several turns one side was simply playing dodge the artilllery. 
If you are playing in a campaign with other units, they'll probably run out of ammo even before the Danai and your entire force will need to be reloaded anyway.
So, I don't consider it to be limited in ammo.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 26 February 2011, 09:02:21
I think the limiting factor would be the ability to chose different loads. HE's probably enough for Periphery fighting, but having the ability to switch between Flack, HE and Copperhead would be nice.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 February 2011, 09:34:08
Exactly, although flak is an autocannon ammo type, not one for artillery.  If you bring Copperheads in a Danai and your TAG spotters get nailed, the artillery unit is now reduced to being a twin ERML cavalry unit.  Since the Canopians don't use TAG that heavily, you're basically obliged to use HE rounds.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 February 2011, 15:29:07
Exactly. 20 rounds is plenty for a single battle, but I lose the ability to use multiple types of rounds.

For instance, in the current game that I'm playing, the map is large enough that using TAG wasn't an option for the first several rounds. So dropping standard HE rounds along my opponent's path of movement is preferable. Unfortunately, with only a single ton of ammo, if I do that, I lose the chance later on to utilize the Eyleuka's TAG to take advantage of the Copperhead rounds.

My opponent on the other hand is using Thumpers. With their two tons of ammo he was able to saturate my line of approach (though odd, it didn't really seem that saturated, I expected more :) ), and now that we've closed together, his TAG carriers are able to become effective, and he can switch to Copperhead rounds. If I manage to destroy all the annoying hovercraft (and the 9M2 Marauder and whatever else I'm forgetting), he can always switch back to HE rounds.

The 5/8 on the Danai is nice, and the ERMLs in the turret might eventually help, but an extra ton of ammo would be nice.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 26 February 2011, 17:58:23
Most real-world militaries have a supply train follow the artillery elements with reloads, anyway.  Most of the time, the Danai would be behind the lines where those supply trucks aren't in that much danger.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 26 February 2011, 18:39:53
Most real-world militaries have a supply train follow the artillery elements with reloads, anyway.  Most of the time, the Danai would be behind the lines where those supply trucks aren't in that much danger.

Well, yeah, that's where you keep supply trucks.

That's not what we're talking about since you don't want to be messing around with unloading and reloading the gun while you're supposed to be laying down fire support.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 February 2011, 21:25:58
True, baggage trains would help, but not necessarily on the board game.

So finished up the match, my opponent conceded, though just barely.

2H Penthesilea
2MAF Penthesilea
5L Marauder
5MC Koschei

The Penthesileas worked as expected, both good trooper `Mechs. Not outstanding, but not worthless. I've played with worse. The Koschei sucked this time around, mostly because of the small cockpit causing it to drop early. The Marauder did its job, though died when half my opponent's force shot at it. On the plus side, its reactor cascaded standing next to a coupe of enemy units.

Eyleuka Lance - one of each. Small cockpits suck at times. The 4A performed about as well as I could expect. Bad luck with it. The 45A and 45B performed as I expected (since I've used them a couple of times). The 35A was unexpected. Park it in some trees and keep shooting the LRMs. Drop Stealth when they get close, use the ERMLs on things in close, and the LRMs on things far away.

2x Ebony 9's
2x 7MAF Wasps

The Wasps survived about as long as the Wasps were expected to, any hits on them ruinous. The Ebony's worried my opponent since on first turn with the sprinting rules on, they were halfway across the board :) "I need 21s to hit your Ebonys" is a nice thing to see.

4xMML Carriers - Survived a surprisingly long time. Good to see the missile spam. One managed to take down a pristine Cicada as it tried to run by.

4xDanais - Speed is nice,  limited ammo is a problem. On the other hand, since the Copperhead Thumper round only deals 5 damage, maybe the ammo swap isn't needed that much...

4x Tamerlanes - One of each - one skidded off the board (sigh). The others teamed up with an Ebony to exploit a flank and go after the artillery. Took down a Thumper eventually.

4x Theseus RLs - Didn't get to use them much, they were out of position
4x Theseus - Not bad. Once you get used to the lack of jumping, they don't seem to move that slow, and the MRRs are nice. Wish there were more weapons listed as being used on the MWM.
4x Jump Squads - Urf. Wish I had realized these were squads instead of platoons earlier. A squad just doesn't seem to do the damage you need from infantry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 27 February 2011, 02:19:07
As the opponent, I only have this to say.

"Whatever that comet is flying across the battlefield, spitting lightning...kill it. Kill it now. With lots of fire. NOWish."

The Ebony impressed me quite a bit. It was a real pain to drop, and I only managed to nab one after I got a lucky shot and knocked it down.

First time fighting against the Eyleukas. Those things are all kinds of wrong, especially when my force lacked options to kill fast movers well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 February 2011, 08:26:07
What units were you fielding?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 27 February 2011, 09:30:50
A mix of modern Regulan/Andurien/FWL stuff.

2 MAD-9M2s, one of each of the non-Arrow IV Patriots, 2 of the MML and 2 of the LGR Moltkes, 2 Apollos for semi-guided, 2 of the new Kyudos, 2 snubbie Cicadas, and 2 Bloodhounds. Supporting type forces I had a lance of Thumpers, 4 Maxims, and a mixed battle armor company. Lost the Bloodhounds and Cicadas too early in a bid to whack the MML carriers, which unfortunately lived through the concentrated fire better than expected. And I'm still not the strongest on placing my artillery shots well, which hurt.

Edit: It was fun to try some of the new stuff for FWL, but I'll definitely skip the LGR Moltkes next time. Those MML ones are brutal. And bring a few more things to handle fast movers. Live and learn, though I'll admit that the combo was pretty successful early on.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 February 2011, 14:05:41
Yeah, the M2 Moltke's are brutal. 35 missiles backed by a Snub-nose provide an interesting conundrum. Stay at range, and you've still got almost an Archer's worth of missiles hitting you. Close in, and the Snub-nose and SRMs make short work of you. They're a pretty good counter to the Canopian MML carriers. Fewer missiles, but they're faster and more heavily armored.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 February 2011, 14:36:47
I hope you weren't playing this as a cannon-flavored game.  Andurien and Canopus have had good relations for a long time.  In the wake of the Re-Unification war, Andurien went to great pains to rebuild the damage from the war and have been good customers since.  The economic ties between the two realms made the alliance between Andurien and Canopus against the Cappies much easier to establish.  To reinforce this "the logo of the [2nd Canopian Cuirassiers] is the three stars of the Magistracy on the chest of a stylized Marik eagle.  Their machines are painted in shades of purple", according to the Periphery Field Manual.
Half the mechs in the random unit table are FWL designs.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 27 February 2011, 14:38:42
Canon-flavored? Yeah, in terms of units used. In terms of are we adhering strictly to canon? Nah, it was just a smash-'em game of MegaMek to play around with some of the newer units. No canonicity was harmed during the production of this MegaMek battle.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 February 2011, 14:50:06
Yeah. About the only canon our games stick to is unit choices, and not even then. Usually it goes something like "I feel like playing a force based on the Blood Spirits today."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 February 2011, 14:59:12
Okay.  Any designs that stand out as favorites beside what was already mentioned?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 27 February 2011, 15:04:57
Yeah, actually. I wouldn't have initially thought so, but those Tamerlanes were really effective at killing/critting MBTs/artillery tanks. Really cheap sacrificial units that can get to the more sensitive sides.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 February 2011, 17:49:44
Except for the one that skidded off the map...

The Tamerlanes weren't bad at all. Fast enough that they can duck and hide behind hills while working their way into position. Their firepower is limited, but you get what you pay for at the weight, especially since the only non-Succession War equipment on it is some of its weaponry.

I probably would've taken Infernos for the SRM if I had known I was sending them after heavy vehicles. I'm sort of ambivalent about the Rocket Launcher variant. Having 2 front and 2 back is kind of odd. You lose that heavy, single turn punch, but on the other hand, it limits the chance of "Aww, I killed the target with the second RL, but I fired all 4..." The other bonus is you can race right past your target without having to worry about spending the MP to turn around, meaning you can start from further back, and you don't have to risk a skid.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 28 February 2011, 16:29:10
Infernos don't automatically kill vehicles anymore.  Is that why you wanted them?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 February 2011, 16:42:03
They don't automatically kill vehicles, but each hit provides a roll on the critical chart (albeit with a -2 to the roll, meaning even on a 12 you're unlikely/unable to kill it outright). When you've got a light vehicle with a SRM2 and an ERML hunting heavier vehicles, it becomes a juggle. Which is better at degrading the effectiveness of your opponent? 2-4 damage, or 1-2 chances to crit the design?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 28 February 2011, 17:11:09
I see.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 28 February 2011, 17:43:14
Massed infernoes are still powerful against vees; engine/mobility crits, turret locks, all sorts of handy things. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 05 March 2011, 08:38:40
Which version of the Marauder does the Majistracy make, again?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShadowRaven on 05 March 2011, 15:57:27
Didn't know they actually made any.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 March 2011, 17:39:05
Which version of the Marauder does the Majistracy make, again?

5L according to Kit if I'm not misremembering.

Didn't know they actually made any.

Yup, it was listed as part of their production on Canopus in HB:MPS.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShadowRaven on 09 March 2011, 00:23:56
Ah good to know.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 14 March 2011, 16:19:01
Since it's getting quiet in here, some 2nd Canopian Fusiliers: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,3108.0.html
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 15 March 2011, 04:10:43
Good to see someone can make the Canopian color schemes look better than I picture them in my head :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 15 March 2011, 16:14:46
Thanks. O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 March 2011, 05:42:07
So what are some of the surprises from the MUL? A quick search through it finds some really interesting units that the MoC seems to have more than a handful of.

What's really tickled your fancy?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 24 March 2011, 15:32:07
I've only gotten through the armor and a few mechs and I was surprised to see that some of our new equiptment also appears on the Marian Hegemony lists.  Does this mean we have better relations with the Marians?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 24 March 2011, 16:05:24
I've only gotten through the armor and a few mechs and I was surprised to see that some of our new equiptment also appears on the Marian Hegemony lists.  Does this mean we have better relations with the Marians?

More likely lie next to them upon the keyboard.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: shadow_walker on 24 March 2011, 16:11:16
I'm curious how in the dark age the the MOC loses the assault commado, but MH has them. Cyborg legionaries?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 March 2011, 18:38:45
Y'all might want to check out the errata thread, I think there's already a half dozen units that are switched from MH to MC, the Assault Commandos being one of them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: shadow_walker on 24 March 2011, 18:57:53
Cool. I guess cyborg legionaries will have to wait.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 March 2011, 00:45:55
I think its interesting that they have access to the Asterion "Upgrade" from 3085. I wonder if this means they're buying from the Taurians, or if they're building the same version, but with the Theseus' looks (opposite is true for the Taurians..are they buying the Killshot, or making their own version with the Asterion look).

The MoC has access to the RAC Pike..which had to be a nasty surprise the first time a raider ran into one.

The MAF, maybe due to their connections to the Capellans, has quite a bit of artillery support. Chaparrals, Demolishers, Danais, Regulators...

And oddly a Buccaneer variant. I wonder what the story there is.

I'm sort of surprised that there are enough Strikers out there in the Universe for 4 factions to lay claim to it :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 25 March 2011, 07:24:56
Here's the list of stuff specifically tagged MC; this doesn't include the giant list of generics.

Code: [Select]
Bellona Hover Tank (Laser), (Standard)
Blizzard Hover Transport "Black Blizzard", (SRM), (Standard)
Danai Support vehicle (Standard)
Demolisher Heavy Tank (Arrow IV)
Heavy MML Carrier (Standard)
Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun (LB-X)
Maultier Hover APC (Standard)
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC2), (LRM), (Standard)
Pike Support Vehicle (AC5), (Missile), (RAC) "Assault Pike"
Po II (Arrow IV), (Standard)
Regulator Hovertank (Arrow IV), (RAC), (Standard)
Tamerlane Strike Sled 2, (Flamer), (RL), (Standard)
Tufana Hovercraft (iNarc), (Standard)
Vedette Medium Tank (LB-X), (Ultra)
Zhukov Heavy Tank (LB-X), (Liao)

ASN-23 Assassin
AS7-K, AS7-S Atlas
AWS-9M Awesome
BNDR-01A, BNDR-01Ar, BNDR-01B Bandersnatch
BNC-3M, BNC-3MC, BNC-3Mr Banshee
BJ2-O, BJ2-OA, BJ2-OB, BJ2-OC, BJ2-OD, BJ2-OF, BJ2-OU Blackjack
BCN-5W Buccaneer
CTF-3L Cataphract
CPLT-C3, CPLT-C4, CPLT-C5, CPLT-C5A Catapult
CRD-8L Crusader
CP-11-A, CP-11-G Cyclops
DVS-2 Devastator
D9-G9 Duan Gung
EGL-2M Eagle
MEB-9, MEB-10, MEB-11 Ebony
EMP-6A Emperor
EYL-45A, EYL-45B Eyleuka
GLT-7-0, GLT-8-0 Gallant
GAL-1GLS, GAL-2GLS, GAL-2GLSA Gallowglas
T-IT-N10M Grand Titan
GRF-5L Griffin
GLT-5M Guillotine
HMR-3M Hammer
HEL-3D Helios
HER-5S, HER-5Sr Hermes II
HBK-5H, HBK-5M, HBK-5N Hunchback
HUR-WO-R4L Huron Warrior
JA-KL-1532 Jackal
JR7-K Jenner
JN-G8A Jinggau
KSC-3I, KSC-5I, KSC-5MC, KSC-5X Koschei
LCT-5V Locust
LGB-12C Longbow
MAD-5L, MAD-6L Marauder
MHL-2L, MHL-6MC Marshal
MS1-O, MS1-OA, MS1-OB, MS1-OC, MS1-OD Men Shen
ON1-M Orion
OSR-4C, OSR-4L Ostroc
PXH-4L, PXH-4W, PXH-5L Phoenix Hawk
PLG-1N, PLG-3Z Pillager
QKD-5M Quickdraw
RTX1-O, RTX1-OB, RTX1-OC, RTX1-OD, RTX1-OE, RTX1-OF, RTX1-OR, RTX1-OU Raptor
RVN-3L Raven
SHD-7M, SHD-8L Shadow Hawk
SNK-1V Snake
STK-5M Stalker
STY-3C, STY-3D, STY-3Dr Starslayer
STG-3G, STG-6L Stinger
STC-2C Striker
ZPH-1 Tarantula
THR-1L Thunder
TSG-9H, TSG-9J Ti Ts'ang
VND-1R, VND-3L, VND-3Lr, VND-4L, VND-5L Vindicator
WR-DG-02FC War Dog
WHM-5L Warhammer
Warhammer IIC 9
WSP-3L, WSP-7MAF, WSP-8T Wasp
WTC-4M Watchman
WLF-1 Wolfhound
TR1, TR2 Wraith
Y-H9G Yu Huang

D-M3D-3, D-M3D-4 Diomede
AM-PRM-RH7, AM-PRM-RH7A "Rock Otter", AM-PRM-RH7C "Rock Possum" Rock Hound
AM-PRM-SH1 Space Hound

MSF-42 Bluehawk Combat Support Fighter
MNG-8L Mengqin

Assault Commando (Ebon Magistrate Shock Troops)
Space Marines (Com Guards Warship Fleet Marine)
SpecOps Paratrooper (MI6 Extraction Team)
TAG Spotter Infantry (Stalwart Support-Spotter Infantry)
Xenoplanetary Infantry (Eagle Corps Eyrie Defense Force)
AA Jump Infantry (292nd League Regulars, Gryphons)
Commando (Battlefield Infiltration Units)
Heavy Jump Infantry (Royal Gurkha Battalion, 4th Regulan Hussars)
Submersible Mechanized Infantry (Kraken Unleashed-The Mermen)
Anti-Infantry Unit (2nd Lyran AI, 32nd Lyran Guards)
Firefighter (24th Hellfire Fire Fighting Battalion, 84th Avalon LI, 17th Avalon Hussars)
Heavy Infantry (Heavy Urban Response Platoon, 608th Lyran MTR, 3rd Lyran Guards)
Heavy Support Infantry (Irian Technologies SWAT Team)
Motorized XCT infantry (Explorer Corps Hostile Environment Recon Units)
VTOL Infantry (Hachiman Taro Enterprise Extraction Force)
Yeah, it's kinda big, but I tried to shorten it up some.  Anyway...there's some interesting things.  The aforementioned artillery saturation, including the AIV Catapult.  Some nasty infantry, and a curious bit of Wolf's Dragoons hardware acquired after they get vaporized.  One wonders if there's a unit that went that way, or just how it ended up there.  Oh and that curious little IIC in there...that's the twin-CRAC-5(!!!!!!) and Clan LRM-10 version, with an ECM pack, 2 ERML, 2 ERSL, enough ammo to make the gunload workable, enough heat sinks to be an alpha-baby and still make slurpees, and unlike a certain Davion twin-RAC machine more rear armor than anything starting with R-I-F or J-A-G.  Crits for the crit god, headcaps for the skull throne?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: shadow_walker on 25 March 2011, 08:07:55
I think its interesting that they have access to the Asterion "Upgrade" from 3085. I wonder if this means they're buying from the Taurians, or if they're building the

They way TRO:3085 read to me is that the two nations are still on a talking/trading relation.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 25 March 2011, 08:23:12
[access comments]

Presence and rarity are not the same concept.  The MUL is specifically only dealing with the former.  I wouldn't assume any of the weird stuff is particularly common, just that there's some.

They way TRO:3085 read to me is that the two nations are still on a talking/trading relation.

Given that the Penthesilea is being exported to the Concordat in reasonable numbers, they definitely are conducting at least some trade in military goods.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: shadow_walker on 25 March 2011, 09:08:18
Given that the Penthesilea is being exported to the Concordat in reasonable numbers, they definitely are conducting at least some trade in military goods.

I think they was talk of canopian's waiting to get some 11T Warhammers. The Concordat and Majesty always seem to have a on and off relation.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 25 March 2011, 14:52:09
My Company of the 1st Canopian Cuirassiers:

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0319.jpg)

Assault Lance
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0325.jpg)

Fire Lance
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0322.jpg)

Pursuit Lance
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0321.jpg)


These were all painted by my good friend Jay who can really do a good job on yellow. :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 March 2011, 15:49:11
Presence and rarity are not the same concept.  The MUL is specifically only dealing with the former.  I wouldn't assume any of the weird stuff is particularly common, just that there's some.

Sure, but I think even the MUL people have said that if its on the list, it means there's more than one (in general, a handful, though relative to the size of the army in question, so you need more of them to make the list for the FedSuns than you do the MoC).

The weird stuff may not be common, and it may be focused in an individual unit, but its there. And some of the weird stuff is pretty weird. I didn't think the original Pillager was in production anywhere. Are these designs the MoC has had for hundreds of years (since they're Intro tech), or did someone start producing them for a limited time during the Jihad?

Yeah, it's kinda big, but I tried to shorten it up some.  Anyway...there's some interesting things.  The aforementioned artillery saturation, including the AIV Catapult.  Some nasty infantry, and a curious bit of Wolf's Dragoons hardware acquired after they get vaporized.  One wonders if there's a unit that went that way, or just how it ended up there.  Oh and that curious little IIC in there...that's the twin-CRAC-5(!!!!!!) and Clan LRM-10 version, with an ECM pack, 2 ERML, 2 ERSL, enough ammo to make the gunload workable, enough heat sinks to be an alpha-baby and still make slurpees, and unlike a certain Davion twin-RAC machine more rear armor than anything starting with R-I-F or J-A-G.  Crits for the crit god, headcaps for the skull throne?

I'd assume that the Dragoon hardware was bought on the open market. Those aren't the most cutting edge designs from the Dragoons, and I believe all of them were put on the general market. The MoC seems like its dipped heavily into that merc market to pick up designs.

The Warhammer IIC is just odd. I can't help but wonder if the Diamond Sharks were offering too good to be true deals on them. I can think of better designs for fighting in the MoC (such as designs that don't rely on ammo based weapons..ammo that the MoC may not be able to manufacture themselves), and I can think of designs better suited for pushing into your R&D labs, since, IIRC, those RACs are worse off than the standard IS RACs.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 25 March 2011, 15:52:28
Beautiful mechs, Top Sargent. O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 25 March 2011, 16:01:28
I think they was talk of canopian's waiting to get some 11T Warhammers. The Concordat and Majesty always seem to have a on and off relation.

The model only entered production in 3084 and hasn't been opened for export to anyone yet, so I'd be cautious drawing any conclusions about their current relationship from that tidbit.  More to the point, the Canopians certainly seem to expect it to be available to them, they're just waiting on it, and the Taurians were the first ones cleared for exports of the Penthesilea.  They are selling the Canopians Brahmas, too.

(The wisdom of buying either 'Mech is something I'll leave for another time.)

Sure, but I think even the MUL people have said that if its on the list, it means there's more than one (in general, a handful, though relative to the size of the army in question, so you need more of them to make the list for the FedSuns than you do the MoC).

Right.  That's basically what I'm saying to keep in mind - there's at least a handful but that doesn't make anything common.

The weird stuff may not be common, and it may be focused in an individual unit, but its there. And some of the weird stuff is pretty weird. I didn't think the original Pillager was in production anywhere. Are these designs the MoC has had for hundreds of years (since they're Intro tech), or did someone start producing them for a limited time during the Jihad?

The original Pillagers did a lot of service in the Periphery during the Reunification War so it's possible someone salvaged some centuries old hulks.  Or they could be building them.  Since modern Pillager production is heavily based in the CC, it's possible they started a line and the Canopians picked up part of the production run.

I'd assume that the Dragoon hardware was bought on the open market. Those aren't the most cutting edge designs from the Dragoons, and I believe all of them were put on the general market. The MoC seems like its dipped heavily into that merc market to pick up designs.

Likely.

The Warhammer IIC is just odd. I can't help but wonder if the Diamond Sharks were offering too good to be true deals on them. I can think of better designs for fighting in the MoC (such as designs that don't rely on ammo based weapons..ammo that the MoC may not be able to manufacture themselves), and I can think of designs better suited for pushing into your R&D labs, since, IIRC, those RACs are worse off than the standard IS RACs.

The Sharks pushing ammo-using weapons on customers for vendor lock-in is not a new trick.  They've been doing that since at least the Mad Cat II.  However, while the RACs are a bit bulkier, they're longer-ranged and share lineage with the older RACs, so there's some reason to examine them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 March 2011, 03:32:32
The original Pillagers did a lot of service in the Periphery during the Reunification War so it's possible someone salvaged some centuries old hulks.  Or they could be building them.  Since modern Pillager production is heavily based in the CC, it's possible they started a line and the Canopians picked up part of the production run.

Yup. The Faction Availability for it is odd as well. IS General, Merc General, TC, MC, and Clan Nova Cat. Once the Jihad is over that goes to Merc General, CC, FS, TC, MC, Nova Cats.

Weird, not necessarily common, but interesting :)

Much like the Buccaneer. Its not the greatest `Mech (I shudder to think of what they did to it compared to the original), there probably aren't more than a handful to get the "Available" tag..but why that `Mech specifically. IC and OOCly. Like I said, interesting :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 26 March 2011, 04:16:03
Beautiful mechs, Top Sargent. O0
Agreed, but that color scheme just screams hit me.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 26 March 2011, 07:28:12
Agreed.  I'm hoping TPTB could change that scheme in honor of the sacrifice the unit made during the Jihad.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 26 March 2011, 07:48:23
Agreed, but that color scheme just screams hit me.

Its what's in the book so that's what I had to go with :).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 March 2011, 13:37:21
If I remember right, quite a few of the Magistracy color schemes sound kind of odd. Still, those `Mechs pretty much make a believer out of me and the yellow scheme.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 26 March 2011, 19:20:36
What legs are on that Catapult, Top?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 26 March 2011, 20:58:57
What legs are on that Catapult, Top?

Catapult legs. I did not kitbash that one.

That is the Catapult from the new boxed set I bought two years ago.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 27 March 2011, 00:40:22
That is the Catapult from the new boxed set I bought two years ago.

Ah, not one I have.  Was wondering why I didn't recognize the legs. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 27 March 2011, 03:45:18
Ah, not one I have.  Was wondering why I didn't recognize the legs.

In the company photo you can more easily see the fore-shortened hex base indicative of the contemporary box set miniatures.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 27 March 2011, 06:04:36
The Warhammer IIC is just odd. I can't help but wonder if the Diamond Sharks were offering too good to be true deals on them. I can think of better designs for fighting in the MoC (such as designs that don't rely on ammo based weapons..ammo that the MoC may not be able to manufacture themselves), and I can think of designs better suited for pushing into your R&D labs, since, IIRC, those RACs are worse off than the standard IS RACs.
The ammo is something to consider, but the CRACs are hardly worse off.  They're certainly bulkier, but you get a 40% bump in range (out to 21!) for the trade.  Note that it matches the LRMs, which means it's a seventy-point bubble of critseeking death 43 minimum-range-free hexes across.  Something to keep in mind...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 27 March 2011, 12:55:08
I'd imagine any Clan mechs bought off the Sharks would probably be held back and rarely see combat.  But I like the sound of this CRAChammer.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 March 2011, 14:23:06
The ammo is something to consider, but the CRACs are hardly worse off.  They're certainly bulkier, but you get a 40% bump in range (out to 21!) for the trade.  Note that it matches the LRMs, which means it's a seventy-point bubble of critseeking death 43 minimum-range-free hexes across.  Something to keep in mind...

Ah, didn't realize the range advantage was quite that much. Might be worth studying then. I still think I'd have wanted major incentives to purchase one though :)

Ah, not one I have.  Was wondering why I didn't recognize the legs. 

And after being a Canopian fan for this long, Ian Sharpe is good with legs :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 09 April 2011, 15:43:07
Comedy stylings of Maelwys aside ;) , anything new on the Canopian front?  The Theseus is due to be sculpted soon-ish.  Hopefully just a few months later it will be released.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 April 2011, 16:51:12
Not a whole lot. Unless I completely missed it, there's not much about the Canopians in the new Liao Handbook, other than a picture of Naomi that seems to have her married a year early or something.

The only other new thing is the MUL.

I do find the Koschei situation interesting. Apparently the MoC is really taking a shine to the various types. They're listed as having access to the 3I, the 5I, the 5MC (natch) and the 5X interestingly. The 5X has a Jihad availability of the MoC, the WoB, and Mercs in general, while post Jihad its just the MC and Mercs. Might be another one of those advanced designs that the WoB put into production that was mentioned in M&M.

Same with the 8L Shadow Hawk which seems to be available to the MoC and WoB before the CC.

We're still awaiting the Field Report for the Periphery, and maybe some of the few remaining XTROs will deal with the Periphery a bit.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 09 April 2011, 17:48:00
It's too soon to say what we really have in the MUL.  Many errors have been found, including us getting Marian equiptment. [AAAH]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 April 2011, 05:33:47
and maybe some of the few remaining XTROs will deal with the Periphery a bit.

I think the Periphery realms could get a lot of coverage in the XTRO Primitives volumes.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 April 2011, 07:20:00
It's too soon to say what we really have in the MUL.  Many errors have been found, including us getting Marian equiptment. [AAAH]

And the Marians getting some of ours. But still, there are some interesting things in there I think, and its a good first look atleast.

I think the Periphery realms could get a lot of coverage in the XTRO Primitives volumes.

Probably, though I'd expect the designs to be spread out, which really limits the "woohoo! Canopian!" outlook :) I am kind of curious if the upgraded "Willow Wisps" design will lead to a lightweight BA suit for the Canopians.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 10 April 2011, 14:22:54
It would be nice to get stats on the Athena class warship hinted at in StratOps.  I just hope it's not an upgunned Aquilla.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 April 2011, 14:52:02
That's sort of why I'm hoping not to see it in the Primitives XTRO :) I do believe its intro date is late enough that it should be its own design, using standard parts, instead of primitive engines and the like.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 April 2011, 23:25:55
Isn't the Willow Wisps more a customized "merc" unit? Besides, the Canopians doesn't seem to be one of the Periphery "BA boomers", but stranger things have happened with XTRO Gladiators units, like the Warhammer.

The reason i stated Primitives is because we dont really got a lot of Periphery toys from the Reunification War even though they managed to hold the SLDF for 2 decades+. Also, Herb used to post a list of every XTRO in the old boards, and i dont remember an XTRO: Periphery in that list. None of the Periphery realms have any R&D going on like the Successor State programs, none of them can even muster an E technology level across the board for experimental technologies to appear, and they're still trying to rebuild their militaries to pre-Reunification War levels to care much about R&D when they can just buy whatever they can afford from the Successor States. Hence, the most likely new "experimental" units for the Canopians or other Periphery realms to appear in XTROs would be those using RetroTech. They can really help boost their militaries in an affordable and easily mass-produced manner.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 April 2011, 23:42:15
Memories are such fickle (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,48344.msg1525789.html#msg1525789) things....

Quote from: Herb
In still more news: At this moment, there are 19 Experimental Tech Readouts on my "to do" list, with two completed, two assigned, and 15 more to assign. What's going INTO them is also already assigned (much to the chagrin of the writers, no doubt), and because I'm generous and gluttonous enough for this kind of abuse, here's the title rundown, in no particular order:

     XTR: Mercenaries
     XTR: Pirates
     XTR: ComStar
     XTR: Gunslingers
     XTR: Phantoms
     XTR: House Steiner
     XTR: House Marik
     XTR: House Liao
     XTR: House Kurita
     XTR: Periphery
     XTR: Boondocks
     XTR: Primitives (volume I)
     XTR: Republic of the Sphere
     XTR: Primitives (volume II)
     XTR: Corporations
     XTR: Primitives (volume III)
     XTR: Gladiators
     XTR: Clans

Bolding mine.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 April 2011, 01:07:58
Isn't the Willow Wisps more a customized "merc" unit? Besides, the Canopians doesn't seem to be one of the Periphery "BA boomers", but stranger things have happened with XTRO Gladiators units, like the Warhammer.

Well, they're a merc/Gladiatorial unit, but their suits were rebuilt by Foxx? Infantry Systems "From the ground up" which seems to me should give them a pretty good idea how they're built. They even replaced the armor completely, and there's a fluffy new flexible joint system installed. They may not have the specs to build them, but they've obviously done some pretty detailed work on the suits, and should have lots and lots of data, which would allow them to use the suits as a starting point for a new MoC suit. After all, the same sort of data from Elemental suits lead to the IS standard, so it isn't that far fetched.

edit
Ah, shouldn't try to fix the spelling when an X is missing apparently
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 April 2011, 07:15:32
Memories are such fickle (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,48344.msg1525789.html#msg1525789) things....

Bolding mine.

Oops. Thanks Kit.

Well, they're a merc/Gladiatorial unit, but their suits were rebuilt by Fox
  • Infantry Systems "From the ground up" which seems to me should give them a pretty good idea how they're built. They even replaced the armor completely, and there's a fluffy new flexible joint system installed. They may not have the specs to build them, but they've obviously done some pretty detailed work on the suits, and should have lots and lots of data, which would allow them to use the suits as a starting point for a new MoC suit. After all, the same sort of data from Elemental suits lead to the IS standard, so it isn't that far fetched.
Well, that would be good, but considering the glut of powered armor in the market right now, wouldnt it be better to just license-build the Kobold/an Infiltrator MkI upgrade/Achileus?

Ebon Magistrate+BA=pwnage (EDIT:Is the Magistrate still around? These guys did some kind of heroic sacrifice against a Shadow Division, so i'm not sure if they're still a unit after the Jihad)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 11 April 2011, 08:31:46
Oops. Thanks Kit.
I live to serve.

Quote
Ebon Magistrate+BA=pwnage (EDIT:Is the Magistrate still around? These guys did some kind of heroic sacrifice against a Shadow Division, so i'm not sure if they're still a unit after the Jihad)

Sure, they have shock troops in the infantry section of TRO 3085.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 April 2011, 09:09:27
And the MUL has them around in the post Jihad-era, though they're erroneously tagged with the MH label instead of the MC.

Well, that would be good, but considering the glut of powered armor in the market right now, wouldnt it be better to just license-build the Kobold/an Infiltrator MkI upgrade/Achileus?

Ebon Magistrate+BA=pwnage (EDIT:Is the Magistrate still around? These guys did some kind of heroic sacrifice against a Shadow Division, so i'm not sure if they're still a unit after the Jihad)

Sure, either is possible. Both are pretty good suits, and they could even license the GDL Scout I assume. I'm just one of those people that wouldn't mind a homemade design (though I suppose if they're producing the entire thing, that is almost as good). Of course there's also the problem of "What can you really do with a light suit to make it effective that you haven't done before :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 April 2011, 10:50:57
I live to serve.

Everyone serves together here to help this game!

And the MUL has them around in the post Jihad-era, though they're erroneously tagged with the MH label instead of the MC.

Considering the size of the MUL, its natural for things like that to appear.

Quote
Both are pretty good suits, and they could even license the GDL Scout I assume. I'm just one of those people that wouldn't mind a homemade design (though I suppose if they're producing the entire thing, that is almost as good). Of course there's also the problem of "What can you really do with a light suit to make it effective that you haven't done before :)

Well, its not as if the Canopians get much action out there too, post-Jihad. I think the Theseus can get a nice scout variant to streamline their logistics. That problem with "everything with a light suit has been tried in canon already" is also why i just thought it'd be better to just license-build stuff. For homebrews, it'd be really cool(i'm a fan of BA for everyone) but IC i just cant find any good reason the MoC can use to justify a BA program, especially when they're rolling out stuff like the Penthesilea and PP 'Mechs. The Marians are the ones who can really get away with new suits in the new era...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 April 2011, 13:01:46
Well, the biggest IC reason I could see is the heavy losses the infantry took on Canopus.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 11 April 2011, 18:55:32
Theseus suits work just fine and they're homebrewed.  Give them time to circulate and get some good infantry numbers, and they'll be fine.  What I want to see is a heavy, slower BA (1500kg, 1-2 ground MP, 80-100% armor, max firepower) that can mechanize on an omnivehicle like the Merc-general Bandits or standards like Karnovs, or those Blizzards which are factionally-specified ours.  Use it as an Infantry Tank - it stays with your squishies, and provides a high-protection target to draw fire, with a lot of firepower to be a real threat.  That can free up your armor to do other things, at least some of them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 April 2011, 23:09:22
Well, the biggest IC reason I could see is the heavy losses the infantry took on Canopus.

Arguably, they were up against MD. Everyone took heavy losses against those guys. There was also some fire-bombing that would naturally kill a large portion of infantry. The Canopians performed well in combat against the Blakists, though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 April 2011, 00:26:53
Nah, even before that. The 34th Division pretty much wiped out the Raventhir Iron Hand Infantry on Canopus (partially because 1/3rd of them were off protecting VIPs and whatnot). One of the big problems was probably the WoB's use of laser weapons, which the MoC infantry kit sucks against (actually, I'd almost be willing to say that the MoC infantry kit sucks completely, and not just against energy weapons).

That is one thing I hope to see. A new upgraded MoC infantry kit (even more so than any BA).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 April 2011, 02:30:56
Although the MoC's infantry suck, their medical corps is the best, allowing them to somewhat mitigate losses. Other factions might have strong kits with 2 divisors and Mausers/FB M42B/whatever, but they dont have good medics.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 April 2011, 08:24:06
Sure, but the MoC Armor kit under the RPG could use some work. Atleast bump it up so it covers and arms and the legs, so you give the medics a bit of a break :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 14 April 2011, 02:56:26
May have asked this before, may have just meant to, but does anyone know what's going on with the planet(s?)  Adhara/Trip (Almost due south of Fanardir, almost due west of Palm).

They look to be in the same place, with Adhara showing up sometime during the Star League era, and staying there throughout the 3025 map. Then suddenly the 3067 map no longer shows Adhara, and instead there's a planet named "Trip" that looks to be in the exact same spot.

Anyone have any ideas? (well, I guess the first question is, does anyone know what's going on that can answer, and then if that's a no, we can toss around ideas on what happened :) )
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 14 April 2011, 06:17:02
It looks like there's been some waffling or confusion on the name before that point - Oystein's older maps show Trip in 3025, Adhara in 3030, 3050, 3052, and 3063.  The official Dark Age poster has it as Trip.  If I had to guess, the name was changed for some reason.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 14 April 2011, 15:51:32
I could've sworn that there is another Adhara somewhere.  Maybe TPTB had to rename it for that reason.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 14 April 2011, 16:59:47
I'm not seeing a second on any of the online maps (such as at the Star League mapping agency). And even if there was another with the same name, there are several planets (such as Atreus) that share names as well.

Mapping error in the 2nd Periphery book maybe?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 15 April 2011, 01:46:15
I believe there is another Adhara in either the FWL or the Marian Hegemony.  I could be wrong but I seem to remember that.

And yes, it was known as Adhara until after 3052ish.  And IIRC, either Periphery Second or FM Periphery also showed units stationed on Adhara.  Sometime between then and 3067 it was renamed to Trip.  I do not know the IC reason for the change.  I also don't actually know the OOC reason for the change, though I would GUESS a typo while doing the 3067 map.

Oystein's fan maps always had some issues with spellings (New Vandenberg according to FASA and New Vandenburg according to Oystein as an example) and the 3067 wall map was the first one done with his files, with some of his misspellings.  All previous maps, such as the 3025 and the 3052 and the 3057 maps were done with FASA's files.  I've always just assumed that any differences are because of typos.

In Adhara/Trip, it seems it was decided to embrace the change in a Carver V/Liberty way.  :)
There still seems to be some disagreements on the New Vandenberg/New Vandenburg system, with some sources saying one thing and some sources saying something else.  I wish they'd just fix it back to the original.  It is getting annoying that I have to do two different searches every time I want to look for the system.  :(
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 15 April 2011, 09:49:51
I chalk it up to people in the real world using both -berg and -burg.  The correct way is whatever it was where one grew up.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Guardsman on 15 April 2011, 12:14:04
I could've sworn that there is another Adhara somewhere.  Maybe TPTB had to rename it for that reason.

According to Handbook: Major Periphery States, Adhara (Magistracy of Canopus) was founded sometime between 2571 and 2750, and was renamed Trip sometime between 3025 and 3067. There is also and Addhara (Marian Hegemony), which was founded sometime between 2920 and 2930.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShadowRaven on 16 April 2011, 19:59:21
It's the MoC. it was renamed Trip after the planetary governer had one of the 'mind expanding' kind
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Reaver on 20 April 2011, 13:19:00
Quick question for the MoC'ers of the board.  Who was Magistrix in 2976? I've got a Magistracy character and it's an important date in their backstory.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 April 2011, 14:19:25
There's an old MoC family tree in the forum archives which suggests that the Magestrix you're looking for is Tamara Centrella.

Unfortunately the data on the Centrellas of the Succession Wars is...hazy from what I can tell. Something I really wish HB:MPS had cleared up.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Reaver on 20 April 2011, 14:41:22
Thanks Maelwys.  I've been poring through my records from the various sourcebooks, Sarna, and CBT resources, and I couldn't find the name anywhere.  I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 April 2011, 15:01:31
No problem.

Page 48 of Historical Brush Wars states that in 3012, Kyalla Centrella succeeded her mother Tamara. So that atleast gives the Magestrix just before Tamara. 36 years isn't too long of a reign, and certainly fits within the realm of possible, so its probably your best bet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 24 April 2011, 06:33:13
I checked my books yesterday, and the succession is really hazy at the begining and during the Succession Wars:
Kossandra (2530- ?)
Floral ( ? -2550) Grandaughter of Kossandra and third Centrella to run for the post.
Coranna (2550-2569)
Crystalla (2569-2596) Her tenure ended with the conquest by the SLDF.
Rinalla (2604-2612)
Carla (2612-2654)
Celine (2654-2656)
Gorraine (2656-2680)
Kim (2680-2712)
Jehan (2712-2738)
Vanura (2738-2760)
Janina (2760- ?)
Rawannah (known to be Majestrix in 2813)
Michaela (known to be Majestrix in 2840)
Tamara (?-3012)
Kyalla (3012-3039) She is noted as being the 16th Majestrix.
Emma (3039-3071)
Naomi (3071-present)

There is a problem with the Succession war lists.  There are a total of 4 Majestrix for 252 years.  That's an average of 75 years a piece.  The original writers goofed by calling Kyalla the 16th holder of office.  They could have slipped a Centrella or two in there to make it a little more reasonable.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 April 2011, 08:16:33
Interesting that there are no repeats in the names.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 April 2011, 16:59:17
I checked my books yesterday, and the succession is really hazy at the begining and during the Succession

There is a problem with the Succession war lists.  There are a total of 4 Majestrix for 252 years.  That's an average of 75 years a piece.  The original writers goofed by calling Kyalla the 16th holder of office.  They could have slipped a Centrella or two in there to make it a little more reasonable.

Which is why I really wanted to see a list of Magestrixes in HB:MPS :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 25 April 2011, 01:53:54
Ditto, plus having OA and TC rulers filled out as well. This is the makor failing of the book IMO
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 April 2011, 15:43:59
Some minis for the Majistracy: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,5083.msg114358.html
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 April 2011, 17:05:53
Looking pretty good. The Magistracy has had some good mini displays recently, making me feel much better about the various paint schemes of the Magistracy units :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 May 2011, 15:57:51
Another lance for the Majistracy: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,5457.0.html
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 May 2011, 16:48:29
Really cool Jimdigris!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 07 May 2011, 06:50:21
Thanks. O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 08 May 2011, 11:40:39
Let us suppose that Danai Liao-Centrella lands atop the Capellan throne.  If you were her and wanted to reform the Capellan state to be more like the Majistracy, how would you do it?  Having read through the Liao housebook, it turns out that there is a council or two of nobles that is supposed to "balance" the office of Chancellor, although they haven't done that for some time.  Would you give them more power, or even create a democratically elected legislature?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 08 May 2011, 17:02:13
Another lance for the Majistracy: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,5564.0.html
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 20 May 2011, 10:31:52
Great work, Jim! O0 The 1st has one of my favourite color schemes of the entire MAF.

It's so quiet here... Are you guys all recovering from the last Canopian party? If so, we should start a new one before we all get sober!

 [rockon]


 (http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/musik/a080.gif) (http://smiliestation.de/smileys/Party/92.gif) (http://smiliestation.de/) (http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/musik/k045.gif) (http://smiliestation.de/smileys/Party/92.gif) (http://smiliestation.de/) (http://smiliestation.de/smileys/Party/75.gif) (http://smiliestation.de/)

The drinks are on me.  [cheers]   (http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/musik/k035.gif)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 20 May 2011, 15:01:35
Canopian parties have really long hangovers.  You Cappies will have to get used to them. ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 21 May 2011, 05:31:45
There's unfortunately not alot to talk about. Canopian news is few and far between alas.

While the Marians got a nice new `Mech in XTRO Retro, the Magistracy got a cross between a Search and Rescue VTOL and a scout VTOL that packs a Bloodhound probe.

Its interesting, but hardly something that's going to spark pages of debate like the Centurion. If we had some sort of indication that it was a Magistracy produced Bloodhound probe, that might be a different thing, but right now its a generic "Bloodhound."

If I was slightly more bored at this point, I might be curious to see if there are really that big of savings if you compared the Humming Bird to an equivalent Combat rated vehicle, but I haven't quite gotten there yet. :)

The only other interesting tidbit is that Bermuda Combat Systems on Booker seems to have chosen to make the design a support vehicle in order to save on costs...If that's the case, does that mean they have the ability to produce standard combat vehicles?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 21 May 2011, 06:05:09
I don't envy the Marians for their new faux-Centurion.  I know that everyone is eager to get machines into the field, but I'd rather save our money and buy a real mech.  In the meantime, get some more combat vehicles into the field.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 21 May 2011, 07:29:58
Canopian parties have really long hangovers.  You Cappies will have to get used to them. ;)

So true.  ;D


While the Marians got a nice new `Mech in XTRO Retro, the Magistracy got a cross between a Search and Rescue VTOL and a scout VTOL that packs a Bloodhound probe.

I'm hoping for some shiny stuff in XTRO: Periphery. *crosses fingers*
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 21 May 2011, 17:18:50
There's unfortunately not alot to talk about. Canopian news is few and far between alas.

 Are you sure. In the last TROs the MoC got a lot of newtech designs, far more than the MH, or the TC. The MH so far got a new Gladius variant, a new BA, and a retrotech mech.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 21 May 2011, 21:17:49
Are you sure. In the last TROs the MoC got a lot of newtech designs, far more than the MH, or the TC. The MH so far got a new Gladius variant, a new BA, and a retrotech mech.

Sure, and we hashed it out when those designs came out with the TRO, 8 months ago :) I know we get information, but its hardly in a continuous amount that would prevent pauses in the posting to this thread : ) (Which is why I've always sort of found faction specific threads silly, but that's just me)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 22 May 2011, 07:47:53
Easier to find data than sift through a horde of posts.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 24 May 2011, 11:45:54
In HB:MPS on page 101 is a picture of two Mechs guarding the Detroit Mech factory. Please, can anyone tell me what kind of Mechs these two are?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 24 May 2011, 14:26:04
Those look like Bandersnatches.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 May 2011, 20:59:43
Yup, look like Bandersnatches, which is sort of odd to see, but probably just another sign of the Magistracy buying whatever they can.

They're not going to get an entire run of production, but they're going to a few of these, a few of those...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 25 May 2011, 04:22:31
Thanks!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 27 May 2011, 08:13:28
I've asked in the lead developers section about Canopian nobility and noble titles (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,6028.0.html). There, Herb announced a new product that will treat on that.  [drool]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 May 2011, 14:48:02
I noticed that.  You would expect something like that in a housebook, but one already came out.  Maybe in a field manual?  ???
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 May 2011, 03:56:08
I don't think it will be a more military related product such as the upcoming Field Report: Periphery. And a new Field Manual series won't be likely to me. My best guess was Interstellar Operations, because more explanations on noble titles was announced there, IIRC. Since it is not IO, what about this shadowy A Time Of War: Companion mentioned above? If this turns out to be a rumor without substance, I'm totally lost.  :-\
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 May 2011, 09:30:16
Well, if Herb had wanted to let you know what product it was in, he would have told you.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 May 2011, 10:37:23
Well, I'm optimist. I have another product to look forward to!  [drool]  :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 29 May 2011, 07:59:03
There's a little something for us in Era Report 3062.  The skin complexion for the Centrellas seems to have changed again.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 May 2011, 09:00:55
Huh?  ???

I didn't know it had changed at all. Can you elaborate, please? AFAIK, the Centrella's hail from Africa, don't they?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 30 May 2011, 06:29:17
According to the older fluff, yes.  But they've gotten lighter in complexion down through the generations.  Emma and Danai seem closer to Hispanic than African.  However, it is a black and white drawing, so there is some ambiguity there.  In contrast, in Masters and Minions, Naomi looked like Halle Berry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 30 May 2011, 08:48:03
According to the older fluff, yes.  But they've gotten lighter in complexion down through the generations.  Emma and Danai seem closer to Hispanic than African. 

Well, you know, there is that other half of the gene pool coming in each generation....
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 30 May 2011, 13:12:43
'Tis true.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 May 2011, 10:28:38
There's a new Canopian userbar!  :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 31 May 2011, 10:32:01
There's a new Canopian userbar!  :)

That's awesome! ICW did that one right?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 May 2011, 10:40:42
Yep! It can be found in his gallery (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,167.msg983.html#msg983).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 02 July 2011, 07:57:29
We got some new toys!  New pocket warships!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 02 July 2011, 16:34:15
Yeah. Who would have imagined the Canopians were the ones using (but not manufacturing) a new Vengeance?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 02 July 2011, 16:48:33
Yeah. Who would have imagined the Canopians were the ones using (but not manufacturing) a new Vengeance?

I certainly didn't. when i saw it was a vengeance and that the MoC designed it, I had to change my shorts. one of the highlights of the book for me!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 July 2011, 00:18:04
Thank god for the Vengeance after the travesty that is the Deep Lord :)

And how the heck did the Davvies get to produce a variant of the heavy LRM carrier?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 03 July 2011, 00:20:36
I really think a whole lot of the Davion stuff was consolation for the Davion outcry after 3085. It was a little overboard in Prototypes, particularly considering the number of TROs that have already read like TRO: FedCom. I hope I'm wrong on the motivation, but currently, I'm a little disappointed. Particularly about the Heavy LRM carrier.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 03 July 2011, 00:41:54
What happened with the NLRM carrier is Johnston was building testbeds back in XTRO Boondocks.  This is the rationalized form of that.  Flitvelt is also getting them if that makes you feel any better.  Ordinarily, I'd say the Canopians have a good chance of getting their hands on the specs but given their alliance with the Capellans, that's hit or miss.  One note - the ammo supply apparently isn't any better than a standard LRM carrier's.  The round listing is wrong.  It's a very solid fire support platform, definitely, but the situation isn't as crazy as it looks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 July 2011, 00:45:42
Ah, Boondocks. I was checking XTRDavion, wondering why I couldn't find it. I'm just surprised they're able to put it into production without all the political/lawyery wrangling that seems to happen with alot of the other designs.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 03 July 2011, 00:59:07
Ah, Boondocks. I was checking XTRDavion, wondering why I couldn't find it. I'm just surprised they're able to put it into production without all the political/lawyery wrangling that seems to happen with alot of the other designs.

We don't really know what the terms Johnston may or may not have struck were and some of those deals have been tossed - look at the remarks in the Aeron's writeup about the Federated Suns' attempts to block use of the targeting computer.  Besides, between the retaking of St. Ives, Sovereign Justice, and the Happy Taurian Hour with special guest star Mr. Nuclear Bombardment, I tend to doubt a lot of people in the Federated Suns are overly inclined to care what anyone in the Trinity Alliance thinks these days.  The fact that the Canopians are, at worst, dupes in those situations doesn't really factor into it, I'd imagine.

EDIT: I'll admit that the only reason I have some of the facts at hand that readily is I was looking at the heavy LRM carrier article earlier while doing updates.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 03 July 2011, 12:16:35
I really think a whole lot of the Davion stuff was consolation for the Davion outcry after 3085. It was a little overboard in Prototypes, particularly considering the number of TROs that have already read like TRO: FedCom. I hope I'm wrong on the motivation, but currently, I'm a little disappointed. Particularly about the Heavy LRM carrier.

Same stuff, different day.

Woo hoo... DC got a new Wolf Trap...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: M-Rex on 03 July 2011, 13:48:14
Sidebar:

How in the heck does one open the TXT file in Excel 07?  Every time I try, it's buggered as all get out.

End Sidebar.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 03 July 2011, 13:57:49
Which TXT file?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 July 2011, 14:01:01
How in the heck does one open the TXT file in Excel 07?  Every time I try, it's buggered as all get out.

Its a Comma Separated Value file. If you open up Excel, and then tell it to load the text file, it should give you a "Text Import Wizard" which allows you to fiddle with how its shown (even gives you a nice little preview). First step is to make sure to tell Excel its delimited, then on step 2, make sure the comma is selected, and then on the third step, just tell it text so it doesn't try to format the numbers. That should handle it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: M-Rex on 03 July 2011, 14:03:34
Disregard.  I figured it out.   :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 July 2011, 14:04:59
So some new toys for the Magistracy recently. Reunification Wars gave us a nice new Fighter, which is a little odd. Unfortunately production was destroyed during the fighting on Canopus, but the fluff does hint that a few have survived.

Prototypes also gave us a new "Armed" IndustrialMech (poor Vampyr, it continues to toil in anonymity) and an interesting 'Pocket Warship" that the MoC apparently built for themselves, but couldn't repeat the process (which makes me think they scavenged/bought a Vengeance and were able to fix/build it up over a long time).

So this makes 2 DropShip mysteries for the MoC.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 03 July 2011, 14:25:17
That would be my guess on the Vengeance.  Add in a little bit of overplaying the mysterious rumor card, serves several conspiracy theories.  Retrofitting a single DropShip hull really isn't something that bothers me particularly.  Neither does scratch-building one and taking fifteen years or longer to do it.  The Dictators are a more interesting question in my opinion.  Either they're building them or they found hulls somewhere and refit them for active service.

What it all suggests to me is that the Canopians have some DropShip yard facilities they haven't bothered to publicly disclose.  Not an illogical decision on either front.  Their forces are expanding, so they're going to need more yard support even for routine maintenance.  And as far as keeping it quiet, if someone knows where it is, they know where to send attack forces.  The yards' output either isn't that high, they're concealing more of it than we know about (we know they're being shy about answering questions about the Dictators), or the yard can't readily handle construction or large aerodynes.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 July 2011, 18:42:21
I was thinking maybe a SLDF boneyard for the Dictators, but it seems like an odd place to be. It might make some sense. Pick up the hulks, start refitting them, stripping Hulk A in order to find parts for Hulk B and C, though the phrase "pristine" makes me somewhat discount that. On the other hand, that would make sense. A boneyard would have the facilities for stripping the hulls, so it stands to reason that they would be able to use the facilities for refurbishing them, but not actually building them.

On the downside, its been done with Gabriel :)

Anything good to say about the Deep Lord?  ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 03 July 2011, 19:28:06
I was thinking maybe a SLDF boneyard for the Dictators, but it seems like an odd place to be. It might make some sense. Pick up the hulks, start refitting them, stripping Hulk A in order to find parts for Hulk B and C, though the phrase "pristine" makes me somewhat discount that. On the other hand, that would make sense. A boneyard would have the facilities for stripping the hulls, so it stands to reason that they would be able to use the facilities for refurbishing them, but not actually building them.

Actually, if they're willing to spend the time and energy on the project, I can see it.  Look at some of the restorations people do on classic cars.

Anything good to say about the Deep Lord?  ;D

Yes, actually, even two things:
A) Someone was paying attention to the fact that ballistic and missile weapons generate heat on IndustrialMechs.  See the Arbiter for what happens when you don't.
B) In a close range engagement operated smartly, a lance of Deep Lords has surprise and a decently heavy mace going for it, and they're not helpless outside of that environment.  Pirates are not going to like it very much.  Especially if the people buying it are also buying things like Partisans or already have something else to provide some long-range fire support.  Against a serious combatant, no, they're not going to fare well.  That's not really the target market's normal threat, either.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 03 July 2011, 21:14:49
Anything good to say about the Deep Lord?  ;D

Everyone buys it.  From a tax revenue standpoint, awesome.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 July 2011, 22:26:36
Actually, if they're willing to spend the time and energy on the project, I can see it.  Look at some of the restorations people do on classic cars.

Sure, to a rather large expense. Then again, economics in BT are economics in BT so anything is possible I suppose.

Quote
Yes, actually, even two things:
A) Someone was paying attention to the fact that ballistic and missile weapons generate heat on IndustrialMechs.  See the Arbiter for what happens when you don't.
B) In a close range engagement operated smartly, a lance of Deep Lords has surprise and a decently heavy mace going for it, and they're not helpless outside of that environment.  Pirates are not going to like it very much.  Especially if the people buying it are also buying things like Partisans or already have something else to provide some long-range fire support.  Against a serious combatant, no, they're not going to fare well.  That's not really the target market's normal threat, either.

I'll keep that in mind and look over it again. I just keep seeing that rifle. Oh well, I guess if your arming future potential bandits, you might as well arm them to a lesser extent than your army :)

Everyone buys it.  From a tax revenue standpoint, awesome.

True. Heavy industry is heavy industry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 04 July 2011, 00:32:46
Well, first, it's a heavy rifle, not a medium, and second, it's not being deliberately used by a major power to arm a reasonably common combat vehicle that's fusion powered and thus has any number of better options, some of them cheaper.  Between those two items, I'm a lot less bothered than I am about, say, the Demon Medium Tank.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 04 July 2011, 22:08:32
Yeah, the heavy rifle is a bit nicer.

Now that we're seeing the Rifles pop up all over the place, might be time to ask if they want to ditch the X rating for them. Its kind of silly at this point.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 04 July 2011, 22:27:28
So are medium and light rifles.  Personally, I regard the availability scores as broad suggestions at best.  They don't really give you enough information to be useful anyway.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Dread Moores on 04 July 2011, 22:41:00
But clearly all era and availability ratings should be interpreted completely literally! Rifle cannons existed exactly in 1950 and all that!

Oh wait, sorry. Wrong thread. ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 04 July 2011, 23:11:13
Mostly useless against federal kit but still useful for suppressing the serfs?  Sign me up!  Whoops.  Um, its for pirate defence.  Honest. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 04 July 2011, 23:25:26
Mostly useless against federal kit but still useful for suppressing the serfs?  Sign me up!  Whoops.  Um, its for pirate defence.  Honest. 

For suppressing their vehicles, yes.  They're about as useful as standard autocannon rounds against mobs (read: not very).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 04 July 2011, 23:39:00
Good enough.  I don't expect much more than technicals.  Same with most pirates.  Mechs and assorted crap.  And MGs are common anyway. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Marveryn on 05 July 2011, 00:47:57
Well, she's Durachi Roy of Joyz, not Durachi of Roy :)

Its possible that the more traditional ranks are "sub-ranks." So you can have a Durachi Count and a Froness Count. Perhaps relatively teh same amount of wealth/power, but one comes from a founding family, the other made their money through business.

remeber nobility tend to hold a dozen titles particular as they grow older.. for instance defender of the faith, price of wales , duke of normandy so forth
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 07 July 2011, 15:54:48
Now now, it's not quite so bad as it might seem.  We get Dola exports, and that will improve once the Capellans start filling out their units.  An 8/12/8 with good armor, two lasers, a big knife, and a really big ECM pack is not something to sneeze at.  Now, the real joy we get are those Thunders.  Half the production goes to the Canopians, and that gives us a mobile fast-cav 4/6/6 with an eighteen-hex twenty-point boomstick, great self-protection (max armor and CASE II!), and a decent laser battery backing it up.  Matched with Pennies for the critseeking and I think it could do some good work.  And well, there's also that one little sentence made in the book that makes the attached picture entirely canon.  "All Inner Sphere toumans" after all...

As for the Deep Lord, it doesn't need the heavy rifle against infantry - notice there's two tons of SRM ammo; anyone interested in infernos?  Use that extra ton for something cute!  And a 65 tonner with a mace is going to put some serious hurt down, even without TSM. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 07 July 2011, 15:58:20
Coined in a typo to Kamas, it's now the Depp Lord.  Pirate hats sold separately.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 07 July 2011, 15:59:53
Coined in a typo to Kamas, it's now the Depp Lord.  Pirate hats sold separately.
Better that than Derp Lord.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 07 July 2011, 20:41:34
That is a beautiful coloring job...do you have any more of those?  :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 07 July 2011, 21:49:17
That is a beautiful coloring job...do you have any more of those?  :)
I can color up others if you want, though it might take a bit.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 07 July 2011, 23:50:11
Now now, it's not quite so bad as it might seem.  We get Dola exports, and that will improve once the Capellans start filling out their units.  An 8/12/8 with good armor, two lasers, a big knife, and a really big ECM pack is not something to sneeze at.  Now, the real joy we get are those Thunders.  Half the production goes to the Canopians, and that gives us a mobile fast-cav 4/6/6 with an eighteen-hex twenty-point boomstick, great self-protection (max armor and CASE II!), and a decent laser battery backing it up.  Matched with Pennies for the critseeking and I think it could do some good work.  And well, there's also that one little sentence made in the book that makes the attached picture entirely canon.  "All Inner Sphere toumans" after all...

As for the Deep Lord, it doesn't need the heavy rifle against infantry - notice there's two tons of SRM ammo; anyone interested in infernos?  Use that extra ton for something cute!  And a 65 tonner with a mace is going to put some serious hurt down, even without TSM.
It needs to get rid of the mace/heavy rifle combo and mount a real autocannon, preferably of the LB 10-X variety or just a normal AC/10.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 08 July 2011, 01:53:43
If you're going to use it as a frontline combat machine yes, if you're going to use it as a police unit that's supposed to blow up pickup trucks full of pirates and the occasional duct-taped STG then why not save your AC10s and LB10s for machines that could really use them?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 08 July 2011, 03:03:12
The Deep Lord isn't a militia 'Mech, really.  That's what the Sentry was for.  This is several steps down in terms of prestige.  Deep Lord: By back of beyond hick thugs for back of beyond hick thugs!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 08 July 2011, 05:16:16
"That's not a mace, that's a banjo."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 08 July 2011, 05:34:48
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 08 July 2011, 13:51:27
"That's not a mace, that's a banjo."

It's a Dandelion
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 09 July 2011, 08:11:09
Why is there a mace on a militia 'Mech, it makes no sense. Some RLs, SRMs or LMGs attached to an array would be better suited.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 09 July 2011, 09:11:52
Deep Lords are an embarassing step back.  I hope once past the early MWDA years, we don't keep getting trash mechs. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 July 2011, 17:48:42
Thinking about it, do such "Militia" `Mechs make sense any more? Prior to the Jihad we saw a heavy increase in the capabilities of pirate `Mechs. Part of this was the influence of the WoB, part of it was a simple increase in technology across the known universe.

Post Jihad I can't imagine it getting much better, with units broken during the Jihad going the pirate route like they've been doing for centuries, and bringing their `Mechs with them. You might be able to get away with these Militia `Mechs if they had shown up in say, 3020, but I have to wonder how effective they are beyond the most extreme of cases.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 09 July 2011, 18:19:57
I agree, personally, but the problem isn't CGL.  It's those converted WorkMechs WizKids spammed everywhere.  CGL is at least trying to make them make a little more sense.  Besides, the Deep Lord and the Arbiter aren't going to the big powers.  They're going to bottom of the barrel customers, people so desperate for more 'Mechs that they don't care how bad they are individually.  We've seen this before.  They're called Quasits.  At least this time they're being honest about it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 July 2011, 19:15:34
I think the MoC has done pretty well in rearming themselves lately, I don't the Deep Lord is anything to freak out about.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 09 July 2011, 19:21:00
We produce tanks, why aren't people complaining about those?  Oh god they're weak and underarmed and can't do everything a 'Mech can!  So...don't use them like 'mechs.  Send Deep Lords where your tanks can't go, when your 'Mechs are busy elsewhere.  Considering we're buying as many 'Mechs as we can from the Capellans, that means our own production is at maximum and can't be improved - and if I can build X Battlemechs a year versus the same number Battlemechs a year plus some nonBattlemechs on the side?  I'll take the non-Battlemechs on top of my maximized production.

Or are we the same kind of people who would complain about getting a free eggroll with our order because it's not an extra entree instead?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 09 July 2011, 19:37:02
Tanks are more useful than Deep Lords.  I suppose they might scare somebody off in between comically potshotting each other and themselves with their greenie pilots and maces.  I envision a Mech three stooges act.  On the plus side, they can be OpFor and use live ammo to keep it real, with little danger of doing damage to the real Mechs and tanks.  Guess there is a silver lining after all. :P
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 10 July 2011, 20:29:24
I don't understand everyone's hatred of the Deep Lord.  It's not great, but at 714 BV i don't see what the problem is.  In a city or any other site for easy ambushes it can do marvelous thing for it's BV.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59
I've been away for a while, therefore I've got some questions regarding products which could treat on the MoC.

1. Is the new TRO: Prototypes a collection of the previous released XTRO PDF series?

2. What about the XTRO series? WIll there be new ones like the announced XTRO: Periphery?

3. What about the Field Report series? I'm waiting for FR: Periphery. ;)

4. Some weeks ago Herb answered my question in the lead developer's section about Canopian noble titles with the announcement of a yet unknown product which would treat on that. Any news on that?

5. What about Reunification War? From the ToC the chapter about the MoC seems a bit small.

6. Any news on the new objectives PDF series?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 23 July 2011, 09:07:56
1. Is the new TRO: Prototypes a collection of the previous released XTRO PDF series?

No, it's a collection of production models of some of the things in the XTROs.  The Magistracy got some new toys, either directly (Vengeance PWS) or indirectly (Dola).  Plus the Deep Lord, however you want to rate that.

2. What about the XTRO series? WIll there be new ones like the announced XTRO: Periphery?

It's continuing and there's certainly Primitives and the Clan book intended.

3. What about the Field Report series? I'm waiting for FR: Periphery. ;)

6. Any news on the new objectives PDF series?

I'm answering these two together; the PDF exclusive series have slowed down but have not been cancelled to the best of my knowledge.

4. Some weeks ago Herb answered my question in the lead developer's section about Canopian noble titles with the announcement of a yet unknown product which would treat on that. Any news on that?

Nothing I've heard.

5. What about Reunification War? From the ToC the chapter about the MoC seems a bit small.

The Canopian campaign was the second shortest and, from my understanding, the least complicated of the various campaigns with less of the major reversals, complicated political wrangling, and sheer backstabbing involved in the Outworlds, making it a good place to cut page count on a book that's absolutely stuffed with information, but it's admittedly the worst coverage in the book.  There's additional information about the situation in other areas and the short story about Crystalla Centrella and Ian Marik is certainly entertaining.

Keep in mind that they had to cover four campaigns, all of them longer than and together larger than the Fourth Succession War, the background politics, the people, the technology (and untangling a few other messes in the process) and had to devote pages to various rules that are necessary - including full WMD rules, campaign rules, rules for irregulars, etc.  And we got some new hardware, including a new Canopian fighter.  And all of this was done in fewer pages than the NAIS Atlas's two volumes had together.  Sure, some more details would be nice, but personally, considering the whole range of what we got, I'm happy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 23 July 2011, 10:20:19
One thing I find interesting is another dropship with mysterious origins.  Maybe the MIM did much better at stealing WOB stuff than has been previously discussed. :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 23 July 2011, 11:03:34
We still haven't had an explanation of just where the MIM got its sudden injection of ultra-competency, have we?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 23 July 2011, 16:18:38
Thanks a lot for your answers, Moonsword!

No, it's a collection of production models of some of the things in the XTROs.  The Magistracy got some new toys, either directly (Vengeance PWS) or indirectly (Dola).  Plus the Deep Lord, however you want to rate that.


So does this mean, the units in TRO: Prototypes are (a) not identical with those from the already puplished XTRO's and (b) are dedictated for standard production?

Our navy got the Vengeance? Finally! Yeah!  8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 July 2011, 17:09:18
I've been away for a while, therefore I've got some questions regarding products which could treat on the MoC.

1. Is the new TRO: Prototypes a collection of the previous released XTRO PDF series?

No, though quite alot of the designs in it originated in the XTRO series. They've been "updated," with some of the experimental technology pulled out to make them better suited towards mass production.

Quote
2. What about the XTRO series? WIll there be new ones like the announced XTRO: Periphery?
I'd expect a continuation of them eventually. My guess is most of CGL's efforts right now are towards putting out actual books rather than just short PDFs for the Con season. If you read through Prototypes, its obvious what some of the designs will be in XTRO:Clans. For example, there's mention of a Hell's Horses' experimental Enyo with an XXL engine and ERLPL in the fluff of the screwy ERMPL Enyo, which I expect will show up in XTRO:Clans.

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3. What about the Field Report series? I'm waiting for FR: Periphery. ;)
6. Any news on the new objectives PDF series?

There's supposed to be Field Reports for the Clans and Periphery, and presumably Objectives for everyone, but like the XTRO series my guess is they've been put on the backburner until after the Con season is over. Don't feel too bad. Heck, Kurita players are still waiting for their Handbook  ::)

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4. Some weeks ago Herb answered my question in the lead developer's section about Canopian noble titles with the announcement of a yet unknown product which would treat on that. Any news on that?

Not a clue. It could've been in Reunification Wars, but wasn't obviously. It could get squeezed into one of the FRs or Objectives books, but considering the Periphery one will have multiple factions to cover, a list of Canopian noble titles seems unlikely to say the least with their limited page counts. Could be a product we haven't seen mentioned yet, like some Era Report, or an RPG supplement I suppose.

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5. What about Reunification War? From the ToC the chapter about the MoC seems a bit small.

It is, but that was sort of expected. The Magistracy's campaign was mostly straight forward compared to the other campaigns, with most of the twists simply being shell games and conflicts taking longer than expected. The only real surprise was the raid on Meadovale (and subsequent trap at Thurrock). So its not surprising that it might be shorter than the other sections.

On the other hand, some more detail might have been nice. I'm still not exactly sure what the HomeGuard units did, as unless I miss my guess, they're never mentioned again after a brief writeup. The new Magistracy fighter is kind of interesting (even if I think it might get blown out of space due to its speed), but we still don't know anything about the Magistracy Warship that debuted a few years before the RW.

One thing I find interesting is another dropship with mysterious origins.  Maybe the MIM did much better at stealing WOB stuff than has been previously discussed. :)

My guess is its simply a Vengeance that they somehow got their hands on. Maybe they bought it second hand at some point. It could account for the rumor in Handbook Periphery of a "Naval" training program. Considering the MoC's limited aerospace program, if they thought they were going to be rebuilding a Vengeance to standard spec, that could be quite a boost for the Canopian navy. During the Jihad they might have modified their approach, piecing together technology from various sources to build the PWS instead of a standard Vengeance.

So does this mean, the units in TRO: Prototypes are (a) not identical with those from the already puplished XTRO's and (b) are dedictated for standard production?

Yeah, they're downgraded somewhat. For instance, the Dola replaces its Vibrosword with a regular sword, and are geared towards regular production (but they're not necessarily Tournament legal only, even with the change in status of some of the equipment that comes with Prototypes). Why its called Prototypes I'm still not sure to be honest.

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Our navy got the Vengeance? Finally! Yeah!  8)

Sort of. Its a modified Vengeance, which carries less fighters, but more (much more) armor and weaponry. Its sort of an odd duck. It probably doesn't have the firepower to go up against other dedicated PWS designs, so it seems geared towards supporting its fighters, rather than being the killer of all.
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Post by: Moonsword on 23 July 2011, 17:26:59
What, I didn't answer it well enough for you? :P
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 23 July 2011, 18:32:57
Side note on the Vengeance variant, it's packing Piranhas for subcap missiles, and is in production in the CC - we let them reverse-engineer the first one in exchange for half of whatever comes off the line; currently we have three ships as of the IC print date.

What, I didn't answer it well enough for you? :P
Nope.
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Post by: Maelwys on 23 July 2011, 21:18:04
Actually, it just says that they started alternating with the CSN Fuuzi and MCS Emerald Queen, not that those were the only ones produced after they replicated the MCS Danai Centrella and built the MCS Tuatha de Danaan.

Since they replicated the design and built the MCS Tuatha de Danaan in late 3083, I doubt the Shipyards are only producing 1 ship every 3 years (the Fuuzi and Emerald Queen), that would be kind of silly, especially considering the speed that the factions are building their PWS's. Even at producing 2 per year, I'd expect to see another 12 ships produced (the Fuuzi and Emerald Queen in 3084, 2 more in 3085, 2 in 3086, 2 in 3087, 2 in 3088, 2 in 3089, 2 in 3090).

While I normally hate numbers, I'd expect the MoC to have atleast 9 of these designs, and the Capellans 7. And that's assuming that they're produced at 2 a year (for instance, the Clans seem to be producing their PWS's at 6+ per year...I'm not suggesting the Capellans have the same production rate as the Clans, just that 2 per year is potentially low).
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 23 July 2011, 22:06:46
For hulls, yeah, but for all we know the Piranha launchers are akin to Clan tech weapons made in the IS; very expensive and very limited.  Makes a fine bottleneck for holding down production.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 July 2011, 23:34:35
Considering the speed at which everyone else is building the ships, I doubt they're that hard to make. And if they're limited to 1 ship every 3 years, then I can't imagine either faction would be happy with that turn out. With the FS kicking out Arondights, Claymore V3s, Overlord A3s, and Excalibur PWSs, I can't imagine the Capellans would be happy with a design that nets them 1 ship every 6 years (since they have to share half the production with the MoC), even with the Lung Wang P2 taking up some of the slack.

No, I'm guessing those two named were just the first ships off the new line, not the only two.
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 24 July 2011, 01:39:05
Certainly plausible, just offering possibilities.  Personally I'm all for what gives us more of the things myself...
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Post by: Maelwys on 24 July 2011, 06:53:14
I guess the question is going to be, "How the heck are these things going to be deployed?" My first gut reaction would be to say that they're going to be used to beef up/rebuild the two Canopian fleets, but the first appearance of the design was on the Republic border, which indicates a more...aggressive approach. Could each regiment be getting their own Vengeance-DCs?
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Post by: Moonsword on 24 July 2011, 07:18:21
That depends on whether that first appearance was a sop to their Capellan allies or an actual indication of their foreign policy goals other than maintaining their alliance with the Confederation.
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Post by: Maelwys on 24 July 2011, 08:09:33
Good point, I hadn't even considered that. It could just be a "See, we're helping!" moment, combined with a nice reveal so that the Capellans will go "ooh" and "ahh" and help reverse engineer it.
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Post by: Moonsword on 24 July 2011, 10:21:45
That's my guess on it.  The Canopians don't seem as gung-ho to go poke the enemy with a stick as Sun-Tzu is but they are interested in staying on his good side.

Granted, at this point, Naomi can probably manage that with sweet nothings and maybe a bull whip, but something that the rest of the Confederation will buy is helpful too.
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Post by: Maelwys on 25 July 2011, 04:14:00
Just a small history note for those interested. According to Jihad Secrets, in 2765, the McKenna-class Zughoffer Weir was one of this ships dispatched to the MoC during the New Vandenburg Rebellion, presumably to help oppress the uprising.

That's my guess on it.  The Canopians don't seem as gung-ho to go poke the enemy with a stick as Sun-Tzu is but they are interested in staying on his good side.

"Look, see, its on the border! Now, uh, don't you want to pull it back so you can examine it safely?"
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 25 July 2011, 09:26:49
Just a small history note for those interested. According to Jihad Secrets, in 2765, the McKenna-class Zughoffer Weir was one of this ships dispatched to the MoC during the New Vandenburg Rebellion, presumably to help oppress the uprising."
Well that puts McEvedy's Folly in new light.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 25 July 2011, 10:05:24
Moonsword and Maelwys, I thank you very much for your answers!

I downloaded the TRO yesterday and I really like, what I see. And even if this wouldn't be the case, I would have done it just for the Vengeance-DC. Our first Assault DropShip / Pocket WarShip!!! Imagine the togas are in for a surprise! And it's not just for fun, it has teeth! It has beaten units on the Liao/Republic front line! (This doubles my pleasure due to being not only a Canopian fanboy but a Capellan as well.)

So, we have three right now:

MCS Danai Centrella
MCS Tuatha de Danann
MCS Emerald Queen

Any idea why there is a reference of Irish mythology in the naming of our new warships?
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 25 July 2011, 13:36:41
Tuatha de Danaan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletha_Tessa_Testarossa
Emerald Queen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Emeraldas

Geekstroardinary!
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Post by: Maelwys on 25 July 2011, 15:52:07
Well that puts McEvedy's Folly in new light.

How so? Admittedly, the ship would have been in MoC for a year or so back in the 2760s, but I doubt it would give them much of a leg up on other Star League ships.

So, we have three right now:

MCS Danai Centrella
MCS Tuatha de Danann
MCS Emerald Queen

Any idea why there is a reference of Irish mythology in the naming of our new warships?

Well, we have 3 ship names. I did a sort of long winded post about 2 days ago explaining why I think there are more than just those three (Basically the production rate for there to be only those 3 is ludicrously slow, and the named ships were the first off the line in the alternating pattern, not the only ones off the line).

The naming thing...I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be a pattern so far. Danai Centrella makes sense. Tuatha de Danaan? There is a small Morrigan (Irish Goddess of War and Death) sect in the Trznadel Cluster, so I suppose they could've gotten the name from there, but its definitely an odd choice. Wiki suggests one of the translations for the name could be "People of the Goddess Danu," which could fit for the Magistracy, but it still seems to be an odd choice.

Emerald Queen is similarly odd. It has MoC connections, and we assume its linked to the anime, but it could also just reference to the green on the MoC flag. Or it could be a reference to the Cleopatra Emerald mine in Egypt.

It seems the best rule of thumb for the naming of ships might be "Something feminine" I suppose.
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Post by: Moonsword on 25 July 2011, 19:51:59
That's the correct translation of Tuatha de Danann from some of the things I've read but the term itself is a reference to a group of figures in Irish mythology.
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Post by: jimdigris on 26 July 2011, 05:51:03

Emerald Queen is similarly odd. It has MoC connections, and we assume its linked to the anime, but it could also just reference to the green on the MoC flag. Or it could be a reference to the Cleopatra Emerald mine in Egypt.

It seems the best rule of thumb for the naming of ships might be "Something feminine" I suppose.
My sense is that being female is enough for a name.
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Post by: Maelwys on 26 July 2011, 07:49:49
I wonder if they consider the ships to be feminine as well.

In other good news, the Periphery Field report is now listed as "Coming soon"
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 26 July 2011, 10:50:27
Looking forward to the FR!  [rockon]

@Maelwys:

More ships means more fun!  ^-^

3 ships in 3090. We don't know when exactly the production in 3090 started. I doubt that it was in January. Maybe much later. That means, hopefully more ships in 3091!  [drool]


EDIT: Please, anyone painting a mini and showing us on CamoSepcs? Pleeeeaaazee!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 July 2011, 11:20:32
@Maelwys:

More ships means more fun!  ^-^

3 ships in 3090. We don't know when exactly the production in 3090 started. I doubt that it was in January. Maybe much later. That means, hopefully more ships in 3091!  [drool]

No no. 3 ships named in TRO:Prototypes (that's still such a silly name really). Read the fluff.

3081 - Danai Centrella is reverse-engineered at Ares.
Late 3083 - Tuatha de Danaan launched.
3084 - Standard, alternating production begins with the Emerald Queen and Fuuzi
Presumably, production continued between 3084 and 3090. The fluff just says that the alternating production began with the Emerald Queen and the Fuuzi. Not that it ended with them. And I think we can all agree that there's no way those two ships took 6 years to build. Even at a rate of only 2 ships per year, that's another dozen Vengeances.

edit
fixed some tags
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 26 July 2011, 12:24:42
Of course, you're absolutely right here, Maelwys. In my not so youthful enthusiasm I totally ignored the dates given in this entry. I deem it highly likely that there are more ships of this class already serving in the respective navies of the MoC and the CC. Though, we may have to wait for some time to get news on those. I don't think the upcoming Field Report will have something on these new ships.
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Post by: Maelwys on 26 July 2011, 13:04:42
Probably not in the Field reports. Those seem to be geared towards 3079. I suppose we might get the first (IC)  glimpse of the Danai Centrella, depending on when it shows up (Prototypes was vague on when that was, IIRC), but we definitely won't see news of the other ships of the class.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 26 July 2011, 13:07:26
My guess is, we maybe will get a list in the product, which will update the Field Manuals to the Dark Age.
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Post by: Moonsword on 26 July 2011, 13:12:43
Presumably, production continued between 3084 and 3090. The fluff just says that the alternating production began with the Emerald Queen and the Fuuzi. Not that it ended with them. And I think we can all agree that there's no way those two ships took 6 years to build. Even at a rate of only 2 ships per year, that's another dozen Vengeances.

There's probably more but we don't know how long it takes to build one of the hulls.  All I'm saying is don't make assumptions on the construction rate Earthwerks is able to maintain out of one yard that's probably also involved with the Lung Wang program.  That one seems to have the greater emphasis at the moment.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 26 July 2011, 13:22:08
Have you seen HikageMaru's faction banners? There's one for the MoC as well! They're very funny!

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7668.msg194513.html#msg194513 (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7668.msg194513.html#msg194513)
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Post by: Maelwys on 27 July 2011, 10:45:45
There's probably more but we don't know how long it takes to build one of the hulls.  All I'm saying is don't make assumptions on the construction rate Earthwerks is able to maintain out of one yard that's probably also involved with the Lung Wang program.  That one seems to have the greater emphasis at the moment.

Yeah, I'm just throwing out rough numbers really.

I wonder if the Magistracy is picking up any of the Lung Wang P2s. Haven't quite made up my mind about them yet.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 27 July 2011, 18:51:35
Would love to see the MOC stop making Leos in favour of Lung Wangs, which do everything better.  Or a Lung Wang CV. 
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 27 July 2011, 19:12:34
I can dig the LWs, though I'll take more Vengeance DCs for our carriers.   [rockon]
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Post by: Moonsword on 27 July 2011, 19:16:54
It wouldn't be a bad move at all, especially since you can attach one for some very authoritative top cover for a regiment of those Dictators you guys are operating, maybe a Seeker carrying some support units.  You know, artillery, transports, infantry, command vehicles, that sort of thing.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 27 July 2011, 19:39:45
I can dig the LWs, though I'll take more Vengeance DCs for our carriers.   [rockon]

The difference is something the MOC could conceivably make itself(LWs) versus something they need the Cappies to make for them(Vengeance DCs).
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 July 2011, 03:35:35
That's really ironic, isn't it? The Vengeance-DC is - howsoever - a Canopian design, while the Lung Wang-P2 is an originally Capellan one.
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Post by: jimdigris on 28 July 2011, 06:39:28
If we can make one, we can make the other with a little tooling.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 28 July 2011, 07:41:35
That's really ironic, isn't it? The Vengeance-DC is - howsoever - a Canopian design, while the Lung Wang-P2 is an originally Capellan one.

I don't care much for making the Lung Wang P2, I'd view it as a bonus but not the goal.  I'd be pretty content with the mech carrier one replacing the much weaker Leopard. 
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Post by: Neufeld on 28 July 2011, 13:52:02
Considering the new Field Report, and considering the 3130 map, I suspect that First Raventhir Cuirassiers will defect.

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Post by: Maelwys on 28 July 2011, 14:36:16
And one or two others as well. The Magistracy gets hit hard by 3130 by something.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 July 2011, 14:40:30
But what could that be?

The alliance with the Capellans seems to remain as strong as ever.

The Taurians will only be able to throw a stone or two over the border.

The FWL doesn't exist anymore.

The Marians are busy with internal conflicts.
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 14:43:50
Capellan expansionism would be my guess for part of those losses, especially if they're pulling in their horns to consolidate military strength in the face of, say, an aggressive Andurien.  They may have gotten dragged into the Victoria War, too.
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Post by: Dread Moores on 28 July 2011, 14:45:28
Capellan expansionism would be my guess for part of those losses, especially if they're pulling in their horns to consolidate military strength in the face of, say, an aggressive Andurien.  They may have gotten dragged into the Victoria War, too.

Aggressive Andurien doesn't matter much by the time of the early Dark Age. 3135, 3136? Something like that when Illsa marries the dude from Andurien.
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 14:47:35
We're talking about changes up to 3130, though.
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Post by: Dread Moores on 28 July 2011, 14:49:51
Oh sure, the one time I actually know something, and you want to go and spoil it with dirty, dirty logic. Meanie.  ;D
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 July 2011, 14:51:42
You have a pretty good idea there, Moonsword. I think it's not unlikely for the MAF to participate in the defense of the Victoria Commonality against House Davion.

And our Capellan friends are that grateful, that they take the burden of guarding the Detroit factories off of our shoulders. :P
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 15:01:04
Oh sure, the one time I actually know something, and you want to go and spoil it with dirty, dirty logic. Meanie.  ;D

Actually, depending on how things shook out, that diplomatic marriage could actually be part of the resolution to the speculative aggressive Andurien.  I considered mentioning as much in the first post.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 July 2011, 15:03:13
Please, what exactly means the upgrade percentage in the FR again?
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 15:09:33
It's the percentage of units using non-Introductory hardware, I think.
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Post by: Maelwys on 28 July 2011, 15:11:12
If I had to guess, I would say some of the colonies may have broken away due to all the money being spent on rebuilding places other than them. Or failed colonies. Or they couldn't handle the Centrella-Liao thing, especially since according to the map, the CapCon eventually gets Detroit.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Upgrade Percentage is amount of non-Intro tech in the unit.

Of course, makes me wonder if the MAF percentages are taking into account the armor forces.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 28 July 2011, 15:19:39
Ah, thanks to both of you! :)
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 15:25:30
Of course, makes me wonder if the MAF percentages are taking into account the armor forces.

I seem to recall one of the writers or TPTBs saying those are just talking about 'Mechs but I wouldn't swear to it.
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Post by: Maelwys on 28 July 2011, 15:34:30
It probably is. I think it always has been. It was mostly an idle thought since at first glance some of the percentages seem quite low. Second glance they seem a bit screwy too :)
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Post by: Dread Moores on 28 July 2011, 15:36:12
All pale and shall bow before the power of Randis!  ;D
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 15:37:22
It probably is. I think it always has been. It was mostly an idle thought since at first glance some of the percentages seem quite low. Second glance they seem a bit screwy too :)

Personally, I'm not inclined to worry about the upgrade percentage all that much, especially if the upgrades are things that don't have a lot of battlefield impact, like adding CASE or slapping in SPLs to replace machine guns.
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Post by: Maelwys on 28 July 2011, 15:40:13
All pale and shall bow before the power of Randis!  ;D

More and more I think my theory of Randis being a hidden threat is correct :)
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Post by: Dread Moores on 28 July 2011, 15:46:39
It's not very hidden anymore.
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 28 July 2011, 22:59:54
Seeing as how even the FedSuns book only references regiments or battalions for its various RCTs, it's the core 'Mech force. 
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Post by: Moonsword on 28 July 2011, 23:01:10
Seeing as how even the FedSuns book only references regiments or battalions for its various RCTs, it's the core 'Mech force. 

Yeah.  Of course, according to the FedSuns tankers, 'Mechs are no longer the arm of decision anyway!
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Post by: Dread Moores on 28 July 2011, 23:14:40
For those wondering (and since I worked it out for another thread):

MoC (as of FM:U/3067) - 16 regiments
MoC (as of FR:P/3079) - 11.1 regiments
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 28 July 2011, 23:45:24
Does that include the merc forces?
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Post by: Dread Moores on 28 July 2011, 23:55:53
Nope.
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Post by: Neufeld on 29 July 2011, 03:56:39
For those wondering (and since I worked it out for another thread):

MoC (as of FM:U/3067) - 16 regiments
MoC (as of FR:P/3079) - 11.1 regiments

Your numbers for 3067 seems too high, considering the there is only 15 regiments in the TO&E and some of them are not full strength. Where does the last 3067 regiment come from? My math gives a 3067 strength of 15 regiments at average 95.8%, which would give a 3067 strength of 14.4 regiments. To make sure I did the math right, I also calculated 3079 and duplicated your 11.1 number.


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Post by: Maelwys on 29 July 2011, 06:34:06
For 3067 I think he just took the strength listed in FM:U. There they list the MoC as having approximately 16 regiments (though they only show 15 in the TO&E).  I've always assumed they were counting the Colonial Marshals as a MoC unit, but not listing them.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 July 2011, 07:09:20
Maybe some kind of militia forces?
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Post by: Dread Moores on 29 July 2011, 07:36:03
Yeah, I didn't run the percentages on FM:U. It was late, and my brain wasn't working that well. :)

Like Maelwys said, I just went by that little thing at the top of each section that said "approximately X regiments."
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 29 July 2011, 08:24:09
FMU percentages don't hold up to the 16th RGT as far as overstrength size; they've gotta be counting in the ~2 battalions of marshals (according to FMP) to get there.  Nothing really stands out as being heavily overstrength; either that or it's a typo.
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Post by: Maelwys on 29 July 2011, 10:26:26
Possibly someone was erroneously counting the Marshals (since they appear in the Canopian section of FM:Periphery), even though they appear in the Lesser Periphery section of FM:U.

Or someone couldn't count. Equally possible I suppose :)
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Post by: Stormcrow on 29 July 2011, 12:19:40
FM: Periphery (ca 3059 in game) has the Marshals in their rightful place as the MoC had administrative control over them.

FM: Updates (ca 3067 in game) has the Marshals  in the rightful place as they are now the 'military' arm of the newly formed Fronc Reaches
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 July 2011, 15:17:38
By the way, what do you think is the basic rank of a non-commissioned MechWarrior in the MAF? If a lance is lead by a Ensign, are his subordinates Star Corporals?
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Post by: Moonsword on 29 July 2011, 15:47:25
By the way, what do you think is the basic rank of a non-commissioned MechWarrior in the MAF? If a lance is lead by a Ensign, are his subordinates Star Corporals?

My guess is they're probably Lance Corporals.  Star Corporals are basically platoon sergeants.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 July 2011, 15:55:31
So, an infantry platoon commander has a higher rank than an average MechWarrior? I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 29 July 2011, 16:02:13
So, an infantry platoon commander has a higher rank than an average MechWarrior? I'm just curious.

I'd think so, yes, since I'd put them at about the same rank as a tank commander.  Better paid, maybe, but not necessarily with more authority.  Welcome to "Why the BattleTech Rank Systems Are Screwed Up, Vol. (n+1)".
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 July 2011, 16:11:48
Hm, would make sense. At least when compared to many other armed forces in-universe. Many infantry platoons are lead by lieutenants, which outrank MechWarriors, who are often sergeants.
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Post by: Moonsword on 29 July 2011, 16:14:16
Actually, I'd imagine they're usually lead by platoon sergeants who let lieutenants think they're in charge if they're good little boys and eat all their vegetables.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 July 2011, 16:23:10
Hehe, oh yeah, the real commanders of a platoon.
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Post by: Maelwys on 29 July 2011, 18:59:43
I seem to recall that Double Blind has all the non-Command MechWarriors that show up as Ensigns, but I don't have the pages to back that up right now (nor can I swear that those Ensigns aren't lance commanders or something, but I don't recall them being that way). And I'm pretty sure that all the aerospace fighter pilots mentioned are ensigns as well.

Of course, with the Magistracy, that could just indicate that they were able to purchase the Ensign rank, rather than it being standard practice.

And the odd ranking is something I wish HB:MPS had cleared up a bit.

Oh! And I think I might have figured out where the 16 regiments for the MAF might have come from. The General of each Combat Formation has a company of `Mechs for a personal unit, so that's another 5 Companies of troops (Royal Guard, Fusilier, Light Horse, Highlander, Cuirassier), which might just be enough to bump it up from 15 to 16.
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Post by: Marveryn on 29 July 2011, 21:07:44
most mechwarrior i always thought were officer at worse warrent officer treated like air force pilot or helicopter pilots.. and rank as such but then they do put in some scenerio book corp and sgt for some odd reason for lance mates
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Post by: Moonsword on 29 July 2011, 21:35:58
most mechwarrior i always thought were officer at worse warrent officer treated like air force pilot or helicopter pilots.. and rank as such but then they do put in some scenerio book corp and sgt for some odd reason for lance mates

It depends on the force in question.  Different groups do different things for different reasons.  The Clans certainly don't.  At best, they're equivalent to the leader of an individual point of infantry or BA.
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Post by: jimdigris on 30 July 2011, 05:45:16
For those wondering (and since I worked it out for another thread):

MoC (as of FM:U/3067) - 16 regiments
MoC (as of FR:P/3079) - 11.1 regiments
What strength do the IS house armies stand at using your calculation methods?
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 30 July 2011, 09:44:34
And the odd ranking is something I wish HB:MPS had cleared up a bit.

I do like the MAF ranking system. What exactly do you dislike?

I seem to recall that Double Blind has all the non-Command MechWarriors that show up as Ensigns, but I don't have the pages to back that up right now (nor can I swear that those Ensigns aren't lance commanders or something, but I don't recall them being that way). And I'm pretty sure that all the aerospace fighter pilots mentioned are ensigns as well.

I'm not familiar with Double Blind. Which era does it play? Maybe it plays befor Doru's alterations within the MAF?

Of course, with the Magistracy, that could just indicate that they were able to purchase the Ensign rank, rather than it being standard practice.

You do need more than just the money to purchase a rank. For all officer ranks there needs to be at least a free slot for the rank you want to purchase. Higher ranks have to be approved by the Magestrix.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 30 July 2011, 09:49:16
I'm not familiar with Double Blind. Which era does it play? Maybe it plays befor Doru's alterations within the MAF?

Double Blind takes place several years prior to Doru signing on with the MAF. 
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 30 July 2011, 09:51:40
Than that may explain how they all could be commissioned officers despite lacking a command.
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Post by: Dread Moores on 30 July 2011, 10:06:19
What strength do the IS house armies stand at using your calculation methods?

Wait, you want me to go through and do all the FM:U things for each faction, and all the Field Reports?!  :o

Maybe next week. We'll see.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 30 July 2011, 13:27:42
I do like the MAF ranking system. What exactly do you dislike?

Oh no, its not that I dislike it, its just I wish HB:MPS had cleared up things like "Are MechWarriors Ensigns, or Star Corporals?" Are they Ensigns if they can pay for the rank, Star Corporals otherwise? Ensigns if they go through the Canopian Institute of War, Star Corporals otherwise? My guess is they're Star Corporals if they can't pay, Ensigns otherwise.

Quote
I'm not familiar with Double Blind. Which era does it play? Maybe it plays befor Doru's alterations within the MAF?

3058. So its pre-Doru

Quote
You do need more than just the money to purchase a rank. For all officer ranks there needs to be at least a free slot for the rank you want to purchase. Higher ranks have to be approved by the Magestrix.

Sure, but we have an example or two of all MechWarriors (and aerospace pilots) being officers. The CapCon for instance. So its not outside of the realm of possibility for the Ensign rank to be rather loose when it comes to "What's available." And if there are multiple Lts, then its a matter of "First among equals."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 30 July 2011, 14:19:44
Oh no, its not that I dislike it, its just I wish HB:MPS had cleared up things like "Are MechWarriors Ensigns, or Star Corporals?" Are they Ensigns if they can pay for the rank, Star Corporals otherwise? Ensigns if they go through the Canopian Institute of War, Star Corporals otherwise? My guess is they're Star Corporals if they can't pay, Ensigns otherwise.

My inclination is to reserve officer ranks for proven warriors.  Sure, they get to pay for their commissions.  It wasn't an unknown practice historically.  But to qualify for the list of candidates, they need to prove they know what they're doing.

Sure, but we have an example or two of all MechWarriors (and aerospace pilots) being officers.

Absolutely.  This is why the US Air Force has the smartest enlisted men in the world - they send the officers out to die gloriously.  Apparently the CCAF has the same system.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 30 July 2011, 15:05:37
My guess is, that after Doru, there are only a specific amount of officer slots and if none is available to purchase, than you have to wait. Each officer has either a combat command or a respective slot in the administrative service of the MAF. A successful graduation of the Canopian War Institute doesn't automatically grant a commission. But graduates do have received a better training and therefore will get more prestigious assignments and therefore better chances for promotion.
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Post by: Maelwys on 30 July 2011, 17:42:53
There are probably restrictions yeah. I'm just not sure that the Ensign rank has to be that restricted, as long as the "First among equals" is respected.

As I said, this is one thing I wished HB:MPS had cleared up :)

Does anyone else find the upgrade percentages in FR:Periphery kind of odd?
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 30 July 2011, 17:52:44
There are probably restrictions yeah. I'm just not sure that the Ensign rank has to be that restricted, as long as the "First among equals" is respected.

As I said, this is one thing I wished HB:MPS had cleared up :)

Does anyone else find the upgrade percentages in FR:Periphery kind of odd?

In Double Blind, Ensign Keppler's wingmate was an Ensign as well, and Keppler was in charge of all 4 ASFs.  Its not mentioned whether the other 2 pilots were Ensigns or not.  Those are pilots though, not mechjockeys.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 30 July 2011, 18:07:51
My guess is, that after Doru, there are only a specific amount of officer slots and if none is available to purchase, than you have to wait. Each officer has either a combat command or a respective slot in the administrative service of the MAF. A successful graduation of the Canopian War Institute doesn't automatically grant a commission. But graduates do have received a better training and therefore will get more prestigious assignments and therefore better chances for promotion.

Purchase systems tend not to work that way.  Its time in grade and money.  You can have a Commander stuck at Commander for years because he can't afford to buy a Major's slot that the little rich girl can as soon as it opens up.  Emma isn't going to pick up the tab for everyone.  Given the lack of officer ranks, I think most MWs are probably at Star Corporal pay grade and lances will be led by Ensigns. 
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 30 July 2011, 21:13:48
Does anyone else find the upgrade percentages in FR:Periphery kind of odd?
Odd in what way?
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Post by: Moonsword on 30 July 2011, 21:38:51
Interestingly, the Magistracy has access to the Inner Sphere Standard suit as well as the Theseus and the Ravager.  I don't have a lot to do with that information at the moment but I figured people might find it a bit interesting.
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Post by: Dread Moores on 30 July 2011, 22:35:53
Odd in what way?

A number of them have not changed one little bit from the percentages found in FM:U.
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Post by: Moonsword on 30 July 2011, 22:44:21
I could see them not changing much - a lot of the Magistracy's newer hardware would have wound up right on the firing line, although a certain amount of it should have been salvageable thanks to CASE.  It makes me wonder if someone just got lazy.
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Post by: Dread Moores on 30 July 2011, 22:49:09
I think it is the latter, since it isn't just the MoC forces with this issue. But that's just personal conjecture.
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Post by: Maelwys on 31 July 2011, 04:18:50
Odd in what way?

A number of them have not changed one little bit from the percentages found in FM:U.

Exactly.  There are 4-5 units whose upgrade ratings remain exactly the same after 12 years, despite their unit count bouncing up and down. Now, I could see a unit managing to lose modern and Succession War tech in exactly a 1 to 1 ratio...I just find it odd that 5 managed to do it.

Probably most bizarre are the Highlanders who stayed on Detroit for most of the Jihad, and yet their ratings remained the same. You'd think for being on the most advanced factory planet in the Periphery (besides whatever the Snow Ravens have set up in the OA, and whatever the Blakists have hidden),  they'd have managed to sneak in a few upgrades, but even their ratings have remained the same.

Again, some of this could be due to the way loses work out. I just found it kind of odd.
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Post by: jimdigris on 31 July 2011, 06:05:52
I would think that the percentages would remain roughly the same because all the new equiptment is going to units that are taking losses over and over again.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 31 July 2011, 07:18:48
Interestingly, the Magistracy has access to the Inner Sphere Standard suit as well as the Theseus and the Ravager.  I don't have a lot to do with that information at the moment but I figured people might find it a bit interesting.

The IS Standard isn't that surprising. I'm sure the Periphery nations could pick up IS Standards for cheap once the faction specific Battle Armors went online (not to mention they're produced everywhere). HB:MPS and I'm pretty sure FM:Periphery told us that the Magistracy is buying suits from the CapCon, and for a while all the CapCon produced were the Fa Shih and Standard suits. And somehow the CapCon managed to keep all the standard Fa Shihs to themselves forever and ever, so that only leaves the IS Standard suits.

The Ravager should be surprising, but it seems they're in the "Sell to everyone so we don't go broke" kind of mood. I'm not surprised the Magistracy picked some up, to study and so they have something to hold the line if they have to deal with Marian Ravagers later on.

Still, its not that bad of a BA Corps that the Magistracy is creating, and even the weapon types are similar across most of the suits.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 31 July 2011, 07:59:09
So when will we see battle armor fully integrated and not being any kind of special force lent to units for temporary assignment?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 31 July 2011, 08:44:37
And somehow the CapCon managed to keep all the standard Fa Shihs to themselves forever and ever, so that only leaves the IS Standard suits.

My Fa-Shih in the 2CLH fell off the back of a DropShip. ;)  But then I am undeterred by lists!  Lists!  Bah!
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Post by: jimdigris on 31 July 2011, 09:34:29
If you're going by the MUL, they're still fixing errors.  We're not getting Marian "battle armor", if for no other reason than pride.  Besides, it seems like they're not raiding us much anymore with our alliance with the CapCon,easier pickings right next door, and trouble on the Lothian worlds.
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Post by: Maelwys on 31 July 2011, 16:21:53
So when will we see battle armor fully integrated and not being any kind of special force lent to units for temporary assignment?

My guess is that we already have. We just haven't seen it really mentioned (something that the Field Report is lacking, along with information on the 2 Canopian Fleets). Originally the Battle Armor was grouped into a single unit controlled by Doru, and dolled out when it was needed, but some of the fluff we've seen from the era (such as in the Trinity writeups in 3075) suggest that regiments have their own contingents (atleast to me). With Canopus under a Blackout for the early Jihad, the centralized Battle Armor Corps just couldn't have been very effective.
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Post by: jimdigris on 01 August 2011, 10:41:50
Did anyone notice that the average skill rating is veteran?  There are 4 elite regiments and 4 regular regiments, but everyone else is veteran.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 01 August 2011, 12:10:33
My guess is that we already have. We just haven't seen it really mentioned (something that the Field Report is lacking, along with information on the 2 Canopian Fleets). Originally the Battle Armor was grouped into a single unit controlled by Doru, and dolled out when it was needed, but some of the fluff we've seen from the era (such as in the Trinity writeups in 3075) suggest that regiments have their own contingents (atleast to me). With Canopus under a Blackout for the early Jihad, the centralized Battle Armor Corps just couldn't have been very effective.

I hope so. I was never a fan of the centralization, though I understand it was necessary at the beginning.

Did anyone notice that the average skill rating is veteran?  There are 4 elite regiments and 4 regular regiments, but everyone else is veteran.

Yep, we're quite the powerhouse of the periphery now! Muahahahahaha!  [skull]
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Post by: Maelwys on 01 August 2011, 16:48:09
Did anyone notice that the average skill rating is veteran?  There are 4 elite regiments and 4 regular regiments, but everyone else is veteran.

Considering how long they were fighting for, its not that surprising. If they're still alive, they probably have experience.

I think the big question is going to be how well can they keep those ratings up? I'm sure quite alot of the people caught up in the Jihad who just wanted to do their basic military stint in order to get their citizenship will be looking to get out, and the Magistracy took heavy losses to their Provincial Military Academies, as well as the Canopian Institute of War. As those forces rebuild, the experience ratings may plummet.
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 01 August 2011, 19:58:49
Well, the Canopians' best way for bootstrapping up an academy system is to stand down a lot of your vets and use them as cadre and training personnel.  Bring the experience to the next group; it'll hurt your current force but bring the next ten-fifteen years up to a much better standard than they'll get otherwise - all the trashed academies aren't going to train anyone...
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 02 August 2011, 05:13:17
That would be the best idea, I guess.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 05 August 2011, 17:04:13
What's the deal with 2531 being the year of the founding of the Magistracy in Historical: Reunification War on page 16 in the left side-bar? Shouldn't it be 2530?
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Post by: Moonsword on 05 August 2011, 18:08:32
Probably a typo.  Toss it into the errata thread if you think it's just wrong or Ask the Writers if you want to confirm that.
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 10 August 2011, 14:16:53
I haven't got a reply in both boards.

And I deem it extremly disturbing to read about the Magistracy Free State founded in 2531...
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Post by: Moonsword on 10 August 2011, 14:24:54
I haven't got a reply in both boards.

Errata responses tend to be slow in my experience, plus a lot of the writers are still settling back in after GenCon.
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Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 August 2011, 18:01:23
Errata responses tend to be slow in my experience, plus a lot of the writers are still settling back in after GenCon.

Or going camping, it seems.
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Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 10 August 2011, 21:10:25
And I deem it extremly disturbing to read about the Magistracy Free State founded in 2531...
?
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Post by: ArcaneRaven on 11 August 2011, 07:48:35
That's from H:RW. I hope, we'll get replies to that soon.
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Post by: jimdigris on 13 August 2011, 06:25:06
So,what is your favorite Canopian unit?  Mine is the 1st Canopian Fusileers.  I like the paint scheme.  The 3rd Fusileers comes in second because they've been upgraded.
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Post by: Neufeld on 13 August 2011, 06:36:18
1st Canopian Light Horse. I like the logo and I like the history.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 13 August 2011, 06:50:28
2CLH, mostly for their use of VTOLs, use of camo, and using just the MOC standard as their own. 
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Post by: ShockaTime on 13 August 2011, 10:24:18
Yeah I'm a Second Canopian Light horse fan as well.
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Post by: jimdigris on 13 August 2011, 12:29:53
Who do we have to talk to in order to get a paint scheme changed?  That yellow with silver highlights for the 1st Cuirassiers annoys me to death.  If we substitiuted black for silver, you could at least make it interesting.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 13 August 2011, 14:08:07
I'll post a pic up of a 1st Cuirassiers Tempest I bought(I know I didn't paint it but can't recall the artist).  I think it looks pretty good with a flat, dark yellow.
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Post by: Stormcrow on 13 August 2011, 14:13:33
Third Fusiliers is my fave. Least fave is the First Cuirassiers, mainly due to their horrid paint scheme.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 13 August 2011, 18:32:49
I'm digging 3FUS as well both for the Capellan-Canopian ties and for all the spiffy rides they get.  The color schemes are sweet too.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Alan Grant on 16 August 2011, 22:46:29
Got a Canopian question.

The Raventhir name has sometimes been called Raventhiri (with an extra I at the end). Any idea what this is?

I'm still surprised that we know so little about this family, given how much prominence they have been given. Aside from a reference to a Succession War era Jason or John Raventhir, I think a regimental commander.
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Post by: Maelwys on 16 August 2011, 23:45:07
hmm, where do you see it as Raventhiri?

edit
Ah, there it is atleast twice in the Field Manual.

If I had to guess (and I do, since I don't know) its possible that the "iri" might symbolize a pluralization of the name.

For instance, its the Raventhir name, but if you were talking about all of the Raventhir family trees/bloodlines, you might just call them the Raventhiri. Of course, this is just speculation and I can't really back it up in any way shape or form :)

As to why we know so little...the eras that the Raventhiri seem to be most prominent in are some of the least detailed for Battletech. Near the end of the First Succession War, late in the Third Succession War...these are eras where there hasn't been much of anything written.
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Post by: Alan Grant on 17 August 2011, 12:59:04
That' a good theory, best I've heard actually.

Any theories on the ethnic/culture origin of the name?



Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 17 August 2011, 13:21:35
Unfortunately no. Google isn't much help, mostly returning results on the Battletech name. And the MoC is enough of a melting pot that trying to simply guess is out as well (for me atleast). I mean, secondary languages for the MoC are Greek, Romanian, Urdu and Spanish. And the capital shares the name of a ancient Egyptian city, and one of their military formations is named "Highlanders."

So your guess is as good as mine :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Alan Grant on 17 August 2011, 13:26:44
The best I can find is the name Raveenthiran. Which I 'think' may be Indian in origin.
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Post by: jimdigris on 18 August 2011, 09:03:14
My guess is that it is simply made-up.
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Post by: Gracus on 18 August 2011, 17:22:01
No no. 3 ships named in TRO:Prototypes (that's still such a silly name really). Read the fluff.

3081 - Danai Centrella is reverse-engineered at Ares.
Late 3083 - Tuatha de Danaan launched.
3084 - Standard, alternating production begins with the Emerald Queen and Fuuzi
Presumably, production continued between 3084 and 3090. The fluff just says that the alternating production began with the Emerald Queen and the Fuuzi. Not that it ended with them. And I think we can all agree that there's no way those two ships took 6 years to build. Even at a rate of only 2 ships per year, that's another dozen Vengeances.

edit
fixed some tags
/edit

As an (admittedly late) observation, the impression I got was that the Vengeance-DC isn't being produced.  Rather, existing hulls are being modified.  This might limit somewhat the number of ships of this type in existence, since the Vengeance must be bought from external sources.   

The Canopians proved more than willing to allow
their vessel to be studied, in exchange for new hulls. In late
3083, Earthwerks launched the MCS Tuatha de Danann,
an almost-exact copy of the Danai Centrella.


Certainly, the Magistracy isn't producing the hulls, from this line.  It may be that the CapCon is, but they haven't produced it in the past, and aren't, as of 3079. 
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 August 2011, 17:26:51
I think the yellow on these (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,9492.0.html) 1CC mechs looks very good. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 August 2011, 00:05:29
Yeah, nice and flat, and not too bright.

So what are people's thoughts on the Theseus?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 24 August 2011, 12:55:53
It's better than un-armored infantry.  And given the Majestracy's traditional reliance on infantry, we should be chugging them out faster than the FedSuns.
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Post by: Ian Sharpe on 24 August 2011, 12:58:40
I like it overall, but still use some Fa Shih that fell off the back of the DropShip too.  Can't wait until we get the mini of it. :)
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Post by: jimdigris on 02 September 2011, 07:45:05
Thesus battle armor should be up in the IWM store sometime soon. [drool]
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Post by: ShockaTime on 02 September 2011, 08:23:41
Thesus battle armor should be up in the IWM store sometime soon. [drool]

really looking forward to getting my hands on some of these. Using Asterions as a proxy just never felt right.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 02 September 2011, 13:49:43
really looking forward to getting my hands on some of these. Using Asterions as a proxy just never felt right.
I hear ya.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 18 September 2011, 01:14:33
Has it been clarified which FWL world the Centrella line was based on prior to Kossandra's flight to Canopus IV? (And are there still branches of the family that stayed in the League, or did they all follow her lead into the Magistracy?)
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Post by: jimdigris on 18 September 2011, 06:45:13
I don't think that was ever stated.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 18 September 2011, 07:22:22
Having the Magestry on the 'back burner' fiction-wise has probably been a boon, all things considered.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 September 2011, 17:04:48
Fiction of not, I think TPTB decided a while ago how badly beaten up we'd be. :'(
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 18 September 2011, 17:20:47
Fiction of not, I think TPTB decided a while ago how badly beaten up we'd be. :'(

All the same, to be on the safe side, lets not invoke their name too loudly.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 September 2011, 17:47:55
Has it been clarified which FWL world the Centrella line was based on prior to Kossandra's flight to Canopus IV? (And are there still branches of the family that stayed in the League, or did they all follow her lead into the Magistracy?)

I just checked a couple of books and didn't see any indication of where she was from, nor does it mention if she left any family behind. It also doesn't mention her bringing any family with her, so it seems pretty up in the air.

The only hint that we might have, is that HBMPS states "During a botched withdrawal from the Capellan world of Highspire, Captain Kossandra Centrella and two ‘Mech lances from the Defenders of Andurien—a Free Worlds League unit—were left stranded behind enemy lines." (p.15).

If you take that to mean that Kossandra was part of the Defenders of Andurien (rather than being part of another unit and cut off, then stumbling upon two lances of the DoA), and you consider that the FWL provinces usually build their own units, then Kossandra probably came from the Andurien region. Other than that, its all guesses.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 20 September 2011, 15:37:03
I got a chance to test the Eyleuka the other weekend.  I found that the stealth armor is good for closing with the enemy.  In fact, the speed modified combined with the stealth modifier meant that no one shot at it until it got into the urban area.  The drawback of the armor was that the heat build-up meant that the armor had to be turned-off to fire a significant amount of weaponry.  On the first turn of shooting, it was head-capped by a gauss rifle, so I'm calling this test inconclusive.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 20 September 2011, 16:39:26
I got a chance to test the Eyleuka the other weekend.  I found that the stealth armor is good for closing with the enemy.  In fact, the speed modified combined with the stealth modifier meant that no one shot at it until it got into the urban area.  The drawback of the armor was that the heat build-up meant that the armor had to be turned-off to fire a significant amount of weaponry.  On the first turn of shooting, it was head-capped by a gauss rifle, so I'm calling this test inconclusive.

Was there artillery in play, and did you have any lancemates?  My opinion is that the Eyleuka isn't for directly approaching the enemy to do damage, and really shouldn't have Stealth Armor turned off unless it has engine hits.  I like to use it as a hard-to-kill TAGger.

Also, what was that Gauss carrier's to-hit number on you?  What was his or her Gunnery Skill?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 21 September 2011, 15:31:38
It was one assault lance facing off against another.  I was using the Eyleuka to divert the attention of a Highlander.  The Highlander had a 4 gunnery, and he got to go after me.  I did a decent amount of damage to it before the cockpit was shattered.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 21 September 2011, 16:01:30
facing off

Yeah, I already figured out the situation right there.  Like I said, Eyleuka = recon with utility.  For assault lances, getting within 3-7 hexes of a Highlander is probably a Penthesilea's job, or (preferably, but unfortunately unavailable) that of a UAC/20-equipped Enforcer III.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 21 September 2011, 16:07:38
I dunno about recon.  I look at the Eyleuka as a spec ops unit.  It can TAG, use special munitions and skirmish from afar.  In no way is it meant to square off against anything unsupported.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 21 September 2011, 23:39:48
I think my definition of recon matches your definition of spec ops. #P
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 22 September 2011, 16:32:23
Recon: Sending Peter to Cheesy Charlie's for the reservation
Special Operations: Dealing with Cheesy Charlie.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 20 October 2011, 19:25:08
Just ordered some Theseus BA.  Look forward to using the Killshot sometime soon.  Real soon. }:)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 20 October 2011, 20:53:30
Just ordered some Theseus BA.  Look forward to using the Killshot sometime soon.  Real soon. }:)

this actually brings up a question I've been wanting to ask. How do you guys usually employ the Theseus?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 20 October 2011, 21:05:02
Minimum wage with profit sharing and a strong benefits package.

 :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 20 October 2011, 21:37:13
As close as I can get them in an APC or VTOL, or as escorts for (rare) assault Mech units.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 October 2011, 22:05:23
As close as possible, using terrain to make sure they don't get shot at until they can engage. The first target is usually conventional infantry since the MRRs make short work of them. After that, its whatever they can get close to. I use them pretty much as standard BA, I'm just slightly more protective of them when they're moving up due to the lack of jumping modifier, and I run them in clear terrain more often.

Once you get used to the differences in movement, they don't play that differently. The biggest difference is the range of the weapon and the use against infantry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 30 October 2011, 14:39:33
And so it begins...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Raj Whitehall on 02 November 2011, 07:43:41
And so it begins...

Not the most auspicious of starts, Jim. 

Then again, it could be worse.  Like doing community service in a mortuary department  :-\

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 02 November 2011, 15:44:03
Hey, you gotta start somewhere. ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stjames on 07 November 2011, 16:46:12
Hi fellow Canopians!  :)

In case you missed it, just befor the old board got crushed, I asked Herb in the official section about FW:P and a possible JTP:Canopus IV. He answered that the Manual will be made available as pdf archive and that there are no plans to make a JTP:Canopus yet, but that he certainly doesn't preclude it for future products.

I have some questions for you. :)

(1) About the Canopian nobility
I know they're divided into the Froness (old families), Durachi (merchant princes, new money) and the Girin (artists, scientists, politicians and the like). But what about the noble titles as such? Do they use the same system like most others with Duke/Marquess/Count/Vicecount/Baron/Baronet and so forth? And if so, is every level availabe to every section of the Canopian nobility?

(2) The possible Canopian Feng Huang-class cruiser
Any hints on her name? Or the prefix of the Canopian Navy? My favourite would be MSS Kossandra.

(3)And on the Navy in general
What shipyards do we have in the Magistracy? And which Assault DropShips or - do I dare to ask of - Pocket WarShips do we produce?

Thank you!

In the books I have:
About the Canopian nobility
The Periphery (1629): pg. 90 only froness, Durachi and Girin.
The Periphery (1692): pg. 32 Same at (1629).
Field Manual Periphery: Staring on pg. 19, not a thing on Nobility.
Handbook Major Periphery state: pg 80 most of it is the same as (1629)
and little was added:  “Magistracy nobles (with a few exceptions) aren’t that much beyond well-off commoners in purely economic terms; a financial gap does exist between this uppermost class and those below it, but it’s not the chasm typical of most Inner Sphere states.”
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 November 2011, 08:36:35
Jane Centrella lost the election. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 12 November 2011, 06:38:20
So what do the Canopians on the board think of the Magistrix's Pocket Warship from XTRO Periphery?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Mecha82 on 12 November 2011, 06:52:33
All talk about Magistry of Canopus by Iron Liz in her review of 1st edition of the RPG has made me intrested from them. What you can tell about them to some one like me who has not been before intrested from any periphery states.   
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 November 2011, 07:00:16
The magistracy already has the Vengeance-DC from TRO:P. Is there another PWS for the Canopians?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 12 November 2011, 08:12:29
The magistracy already has the Vengeance-DC from TRO:P. Is there another PWS for the Canopians?

Yes, the prototype of that pocket WarShip design, much like Liao's prototype also showed up in their XTRO.

What I'm wondering is which lunatic keeps spreading the notion that HVACs are a good idea.  They're worse than Ultras, which are roundly hated in some quarters for jamming but at least leave the unit otherwise intact.  They may be TR D, which puts them in reach of realms who might not be able to field more sophisticated autocannons or Gauss rifles, but I'd rather take the standards and bring artillery if I need that kind of reach.  Simpler, more reliable, and it's got more of that Periphery (or Davion) feel to it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 November 2011, 08:38:19
The magistracy already has the Vengeance-DC from TRO:P. Is there another PWS for the Canopians?

Its kind of confusing...so hold on while I try to explain :)

The XTRO series was designed to show ultra-high tech, cutting edge units. Units that had very very small scale production, were considered test beds of technology and production.

TR:Prototypes then came around, and some of the designs from the XTRO series were revamped to make them slightly simpler and easier to  produce on a useable scale.

The problem of course, is that CGL's release schedule is...fluid, and TR:Prototypes was released before the XTRO series was finished, so you have in some cases (Clan and Periphery so far), the finalized design released in TR:Prototypes, before the prototype/test bed version is released in the XTRO.

So. In TR Prototypes, the MoC got their Production variant of the Vengeance-DC PWS. In the recent XTRO, they got their original, testbed version of the Vengeance DC.

Which, to be honest, isn't really any different. The main difference between the two seems to be that the original Danai from the XTRO has some Enhanced LRMs in place of the standard LRMs that appear on the production variant from TR:Prototypes (and of course a difference in cargo to cover the weight of the Enhanced LRMs).

Oh, and slightly more interesting, the Bay personnel on one is split between Bay personnel and Marines, while on the other they aren't, but its the same numbers of troopers. Maybe another bit of errata for TR:prototypes (hell, I'm not even sure it matters).

What I'm wondering is which lunatic keeps spreading the notion that HVACs are a good idea.  They're worse than Ultras, which are roundly hated in some quarters for jamming but at least leave the unit otherwise intact.  They may be TR D, which puts them in reach of realms who might not be able to field more sophisticated autocannons or Gauss rifles, but I'd rather take the standards and bring artillery if I need that kind of reach.  Simpler, more reliable, and it's got more of that Periphery (or Davion) feel to it.

Maybe there's a chart somewhere at CGL showing the number of times each piece of tech has been used in the XTRO series and the HVAC has been lagging behind :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 12 November 2011, 09:33:50
What really boggles the mind is people were crazy enough to use them on production hardware like the Rapier and the Po.  I can understand prototypes like the Tokugawa Yumi or the XTRO iterations of the above units but on mass produced hardware, the loss rates are going to get really clear, really quick.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 November 2011, 09:53:17
Thanks a lot, Maelwys! The mind boggles at this...instead of TRO:P, FM3085 seems a better candidate to be published for the canon continuity.

The Magistracy seems to have a fetish for NLRMs. The Anubis and the Vengeance both sports it. But i'm glad the production Vengeance-DC has normal LRMs. The NLRMs are a waste of tonnage with no advantage in AeroTech battles.

What really boggles the mind is people were crazy enough to use them on production hardware like the Rapier and the Po.  I can understand prototypes like the Tokugawa Yumi or the XTRO iterations of the above units but on mass produced hardware, the loss rates are going to get really clear, really quick.

As i understand it, HVACs have less ammo, is heavier and produces heavy smoke when firing for a slight increase in range. Did i miss any other feature?

I think the technology is showing up in MoC and CC units in the XTROs because this is, uniquely, a Capellan invention. I have no idea why it's showing up in Rapiers though. Maybe has to do with the Lyran-Capellan exchange program that includes the Hunchback, Spector and Xanthos. I'm glad its not proliferating outside these few entities!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 12 November 2011, 10:40:58
As i understand it, HVACs have less ammo, is heavier and produces heavy smoke when firing for a slight increase in range. Did i miss any other feature?

As I mentioned above, they explode when you roll a 2, which is what I'm actually complaining about, and the 5 and 10 generate more heat than standard models do.  Somewhat inefficient long-ranged weapons I could shrug off.  Smoke is a neat trick sometimes.  Ones that aren't really that big an improvement over the more common Gauss rifles for range (HVAC/10s actually only reach to 20) and explode because my dice decided to be mean?  Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

I personally don't care that it's a Capellan innovation.  Everyone has to have a few bad ideas from time to time and after things like stealth armor, plasma rifles, T-Augs, and their sublime heavy cavalry heavies.  The Rapier was originally something the Blakists did.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Mecha82 on 12 November 2011, 11:22:13
So seems like no one wants to answer to me question and help me in this. People of periphery are rude. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 12 November 2011, 11:44:28
I was kind of figuring I'd let someone who's mainly a Canopian fan answer the question, like Maelwys.  You might also want to try the Wiki, the Universe page, ER3052, ER3062, and Reunification War.  It's a very broad question, really.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 12 November 2011, 11:53:23
All talk about Magistry of Canopus by Iron Liz in her review of 1st edition of the RPG has made me intrested from them. What you can tell about them to some one like me who has not been before intrested from any periphery states.

Well, your question is kind of broad. Some points:
- The MoC is a matriarchy
- The MoC is the youngest of the old big four SL era periphery states.
- The Reunification War was fought according to the Ares Conventions on the MoC front, which resulted in less tension afterwards.
- The MoC is very liberal, and is kind of a Space Vegas.
- The MoC is allied and in a dynastic marriage with the CC.
- The MoC has had close relations with Andurien for a long time. (Since the rebuilding after the Reunification War.)
- The MoC has the best intelligence agency in the periphery.
- Beware of Canopian women!



Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Mecha82 on 12 November 2011, 12:19:12
Ok, thats the start. How about they military. What its like? Also what kind of mechs they tend to use?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 12 November 2011, 15:19:41
Ok, thats the start. How about they military. What its like? Also what kind of mechs they tend to use?

Well, the main thing about the military is that armor and infantry is sent in first, while the battlemechs are kept in reserve for decisive blows.
Mechs manufactured in 3067: Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Marauder, Shadow Hawk, Anubis, Ostroc, Marshal.
After that we have Eyleuka, Ebony and Penthesilea from TROs 3075 and 3085.
As for imports, expect Capellan mechs and things sold to everyone.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Mecha82 on 12 November 2011, 15:25:29
Thanks. That helps a lot already.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 12 November 2011, 17:04:31
Well, the main thing about the military is that armor and infantry is sent in first, while the battlemechs are kept in reserve for decisive blows.
Mechs manufactured in 3067: Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Marauder, Shadow Hawk, Anubis, Ostroc, Marshal.
After that we have Eyleuka, Ebony and Penthesilea from TROs 3075 and 3085.
As for imports, expect Capellan mechs and things sold to everyone.

Do you by any chance know the specific models that are produced?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 12 November 2011, 17:40:43
All of the various Anubises, Marshals, Ebonies, and Penthesileas.  The Shadow Hawk is an advanced model but I don't know which one off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 November 2011, 17:59:36
We know the Marauder was the 5L, and at some point they also gain a Phoenix Hawk 4W factory from the WoB during the Jihad.

Magistracy forces prior to the Jihad were built from whatever they could get. If it was for sale on the open market, they seem to have bought a few to use. I wouldn't say Capellan `Mechs would dominate, but I'd expect due to the ties between the two nations, that they're be able to purchase Capellan designs for a bit cheaper than say, from the FedSuns or Dracs.

You can also expect anything from IntroTech to cutting-edge designs from 3090, depending on which regiment you look at.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 13 November 2011, 08:20:43
The MAF would also have a number of FWL designs purchased through Andurien intermediaries.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 13 November 2011, 09:19:54
Do you by any chance know the specific models that are produced?

Some research notes, using known 3067 factories and MUL availability as starting point:

Locust (MMM, Canopus IV) -- LCT-1V (ref TRO:3039)
Locust (MMM, Dunianshire)
 LCT-1V -- AoW
 LCT-1E -- SW-E
 LCT-5V -- Jihad (confired about to enter MoC production in TRO:PP)

Stinger (MMM, Canopus IV)
Stinger (DCM, Detroit) -- STG-6L (ref TRO:PP)
 STG-3R -- AoW
 STG-3G -- SL
 STG-6L -- CW
 STG-3P -- Jihad (refit only, ref TRO:3085)
 STG-5T -- Jihad

Wasp (MMM, Canopus IV) -- Jihad:WSP-7MAF (ref TRO:3085)
Wasp (DCM, Detroit) -- WSP-3L (ref TRO:PP), Jihad:WSP-8T (ref TRO:3085)
 WSP-1A -- SL
 WSP-3L -- CW
 WSP-7MAF -- Jihad
 WSP-8T -- Jihad

Anubis (DCM, Detroit)

Marshal (DCM, Detroit)
 MHL-X1 -- Clan (note that Detroit is not mentioned in TRO3060)
 MHL-2L -- CW
 MHL-6MC -- Jihad

Shadow Hawk (MMM, Dunianshire) -- SHD-2H (ref TRO:3039)
 SHD-2H -- AoW
 SHD-7M -- CW (TRO:PP mentions that CC has bought license, no mention of MoC manufacturing)
 SHD-8L -- Jihad

Ostroc (DCM, Detroit) -- OSR-4L (ref TRO:PP)
 OSR-2D -- Clan (refit?)
 OSR-4C -- CW (Taurian ref TRO:3085)
 OSR-4L -- CW
 OSR-5C -- Rep (Taurian ref TRO:3085)

Marauder (MMM, Canopus IV)
 MAD-3R -- SW-E
 MAD-5L -- CW (not listed as manufactured in MoC in TRO:PP)
 MAD-6L -- Jihad

To me it looks like the factories is MoC proper manufactured intro-tech mechs until quite recently.

Objective Raids 3067, which is a fan product mentions:
Canopus: LCT-5V, STG-6L, WSP-3L, MAD-5L
Dunainshire: LCT-5V, SHD-7M
Detroit: STG-5T, STG-6L, WSP-3L, WSP-7MAF, ABS-3L, ABS-3R, ABS-3T, MHL-X1, MHL-2L, OSR-4L
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 13 November 2011, 11:43:00
nice list! thank for the info.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 13 November 2011, 18:07:03
Is there anything that indicates they were actually producing the 6L Marauder, or is that just an assumption because they have access to the 6L?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 13 November 2011, 18:35:31
Is there anything that indicates they were actually producing the 6L Marauder, or is that just an assumption because they have access to the 6L?

It depends on what the Battlecorps writeup says. TRO3085 says nothing on where it is manufactured.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Scrollreader on 26 November 2011, 20:02:39
Looking at the MUL, I was curious to see what people thought of analyzing MoC trends by looking at the mechs there.

For instance, C3 is likely almost non-existent in the MAF.  We have access to only one C3Master, and two mechs with C3 Slaves (we have an additional two omni loadouts with a C3 Slave, and a C3i Buccaneer which is likely to be C3 Slave + GECM, as a minimal adaptation).

We're a little short on artillery support, too.  I'd honestly have expected more, given our use of conventional military forces more than mechs, but while we have a few TAG mechs (particularly among the lighter classes) we have a couple Catapult variants with Arrow IV, and the Po II and Regulator artillery variants.  It's possible this has to do more with the lack of straight up fighting the MoC does.  Even when occupied, they seem to default to a guerilla strategy, and most of their military forces see use against pirates, or as part of Capellan forces (with integral artillery support, I would imagine).

We have a lot of Stealth mechs.  Like ... an awful lot.  This isn't at all /bad/.  But it's very interesting.  (25% of our light and medium mechs (counting variants as options) have stealth armor.

Our Omni-mechs are the Men Shen, the Blackjack-O, and the Raptor, so at least we're picking some decent ones to import.

Also, despite our Periphery Status, we appear to not be going overboard on the Rocket Launchers.  Which is somewhat of a comfort.  Only 6 'mech variants we have access to mount rocket launchers, and they are either on scouting platforms (Locust, Wasp, Anubis ... and Charger) or for some serious back alley bad news (Hunchback).  This, I think, is nicely representative of our status as pretty much the best armed of the periphery states, right now.  As well as our access to decent tech. 


What are your thoughts on the MUL listings, for the MoC?

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 27 November 2011, 05:20:13
We're a little short on artillery support, too.  I'd honestly have expected more, given our use of conventional military forces more than mechs, but while we have a few TAG mechs (particularly among the lighter classes) we have a couple Catapult variants with Arrow IV, and the Po II and Regulator artillery variants.  It's possible this has to do more with the lack of straight up fighting the MoC does.  Even when occupied, they seem to default to a guerilla strategy, and most of their military forces see use against pirates, or as part of Capellan forces (with integral artillery support, I would imagine).

It looks to me that you are missing several artillery units: Danai Support Vehicle, Chaparral, Demolisher Arrow IV, Mobile Long Tom all shows up when I search for MoC and Periphery general combat vehicles.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Scrollreader on 27 November 2011, 10:30:16
... huh.  I must have missed a button in there, somewhere.   Well, that's a bit better then.  I was worried we didn't have much artillery pre-dating the Trinity Alliance. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 November 2011, 10:46:17
I think the Magistracy forces are pretty well balanced. They seem to import quite a bit so their forces are eclectic enough that you can go pretty much in any direction with them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 December 2011, 15:47:38
I painted some dropships for us: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,14074.0.html
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 December 2011, 16:06:37
Like the paintjobs.

Not so sure about the sculpts :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 25 January 2012, 12:14:41
My reactions the the FM:3085 info.

- The two most glaring errors in the whole Field Manual that I have found so far are in the Canopian section, with the writeup for one regiment missing and another regiment getting placed on a dead planet.

- The note about more focus on aerospace is interesting.

- I am glad that the Iron Hand is rebuilt and is performing well.

- Things seems quiet, too quiet. We know from the Dark Age maps that things will happen, but there is no real clue about how, when and why.

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 January 2012, 21:44:09
My reactions the the FM:3085 info.

- The two most glaring errors in the whole Field Manual that I have found so far are in the Canopian section, with the writeup for one regiment missing and another regiment getting placed on a dead planet.

I missed the dead planet aspect (which one),  though I did notice that the third Highlanders regiment was missing.

Quote
- The note about more focus on aerospace is interesting.

You can see it in the TO&E at the end as well. It looks like the Magistracy is trying to add dedicated aerospace units to their units instead of having the majority of their Aerospace units in a pool that's controlled at the highest levels. Considering the loss of the majority of the high command during the Jihad, and the need for aerospace assets by troops spread from the Magistracy to the CapCon, this change isn't that surprising.

What exactly that form is going to be, is a bit harder to tell. Based on unit sized mentioned (some say "Sqd") and the rank of the commander  the Royal Guards each have a Squadron of fighters. The Light Horse have Aerospace units commanded by "Senior Air Master" and "Air Master" two new ranks that the Magistracy hasn't seen before.  Unfortunately none of the units have their sizes noted. However, all the way down at the Canopian Highlanders, we see that they have an Air Master who is incharge of a Wing.

So we've got two options, since the Canopian Highlander's original wing was only 2 Squadrons in size (Way back in the Merc Field Manuals). The first is that the Air Master is the equivalent rank of Major and that the Senior Air Master is more of an honorary rank, like Force Major (presumably new ranks were used  because they didn't want to use the Naval ranks for units attached to ground forces). This means that the Air Masters are controlling Wings, which makes sense (though I doubt they use command lances).

The other option is that the Senior Air Master is an actual position, different from the Air Master. The Air Master would command units two squadrons in size, while the Senior Air Master would command actual Wings. I kind of hope this isn't the case.

Though I suppose it could be a third option now that I think about it. Senior Air Master could be its own Rank, and commands a Regiment of Fighters, while the Air Masters command Wings. I wouldn't mind this, but I'm sort of hesitant to suggest it. On the other hand, if they're cannibalizing their fleet, I suppose its possible that they've managed to get a single unit up to a full regiment of fighters (54).

Quote
- I am glad that the Iron Hand is rebuilt and is performing well.

Yup, good news.

Quote
- Things seems quiet, too quiet. We know from the Dark Age maps that things will happen, but there is no real clue about how, when and why.

I'm guessing that the majority of loses are due to shrinking due to recently rediscovered planets..though its rather disappointing. I'm also guessing the Independent regiments might cause problems eventually, though I'm surprise that Thraxa goes independent with the Marians right there.

One thing that we still don't know is how the Magistracy is deploying their Battle Armor.  The RAT suggests that only A and B rated units get BA, but are they deploying full regiments, or Battalions or companies or squads? I assume by now its not the pool of BA that they doled out Pre-Jihad.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 26 January 2012, 04:08:15
I missed the dead planet aspect (which one),  though I did notice that the third Highlanders regiment was missing.

The Second Canopian Cuirassiers, which the FM3085 claims was stationed on Buenos Aires during the Jihad. Said planet was rendered lifeless by a Blakist bioweapon in 3072.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 January 2012, 06:02:09
The Second Canopian Cuirassiers, which the FM3085 claims was stationed on Buenos Aires during the Jihad. Said planet was rendered lifeless by a Blakist bioweapon in 3072.

Hmm, I guess I'm a little confused. I thought you meant they were currently station on a dead planet. Being stationed on Buenos Aires just means that they managed to get out of there before the bioweapon hit.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Neufeld on 26 January 2012, 06:06:37
Hmm, I guess I'm a little confused. I thought you meant they were currently station on a dead planet. Being stationed on Buenos Aires just means that they managed to get out of there before the bioweapon hit.

The way the entry is written implies that they spent most of the Jihad on the planet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 January 2012, 06:34:35
I think maybe the 2nd Canopian Cuirassier writeup in FM3085 is slightly off. Or atleast its seriously conflicting with previous information.

Masters and Minions has the 2nd Canopian Cuirassiers hitting Aspropirgos on the 29th of June, 3073. So the writeup in FM3085 stating that they "lamented missing the opportunity to fight the Blakists as the First Cuirassiers had done" is rather strange.

Buenos Aires was hit on the 28th of March 3072, so I guess maybe under all the data we have, the 2nd should've been on Buenos Aires until pulled off sometime before March 28th (Maybe the raiders hit it when they realized it was undefended?), when it joined a task force that waited around for information on the Shadow Division, which they hit a year later.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 January 2012, 23:44:28
So another good bit for the Magistracy from FM3085.  While we still don't know how they're deploying BA, and how widespread that deployment is, the Magistracy now has access to quite a few new suits. I doubt they're producing them, but after nearly 2 decades since the start of the Jihad, they've managed to borrow, steal, buy and salvage new designs.

The first is the Tornado G12. Not too surprising that they managed to salvage some from the Blakists. This probably also answers the question if the suits can be re-fitted (either that, or they snagged the production somehow). The model they're using isn't the best, but its a good starter suit. Since its limited to ground movement, pilots familiar with the Theseus should be able to use it without any problem. Due to its slowness, and Camo system, I'd expect to hear about the Ebon Magistrate using these, armed their Ebony Assault Rifles. Or maybe guarding the Magestrix.

The second is the Fa Shih (Support) design. It theoretically gives the Magistracy a medium suit that can jump, and has magclamps so it can be transported without taxing the Magistracy's OmniMechs or infantry transports. Only I'm not sure the weight dedicated to the weapon is worth it. On the plus side, its a medium suit that jumps and you can perform swarm attacks with.

The good news is the standard Fa Shih finally broke ranks from the Capellans. The Magistracy gains use of this specialist suit which will let them deploy minefields on the go in order to thwart raiders and pirates. Its not surprising that the Magistracy finally got access to this suit with their deployments in the CapCon during the Jihad.

Next up is the standard Longinus. Not a bad suit, good for the Magistracy (if a bit expensive). Considering their location and who they were fighting, again, its not that surprising. It will be a solid addition to their forces once they get use to the detachable missile launcher and jumping.

The Achileus is another solid suit, again, not surprising considering who they faced. Again, its kind of expensive, but gives the Magistracy a solid light suit to build on.

Considering how long the Capellans held on to the Fa Shih, its sort of surprising the Magistracy has access to the Ying Long. Then again, when they're resupplying units that fought on Sian, and the commander of those units is the Chancellor's wife, saying "No" to Battle Armor requests might be beyond the CCAF's procurement Division. Another invisible suit for the Magistracy.

The final invisible suit for the Magistracy is the Purifier. One of the staples of the WoB Militia and the early Manei Domini Battle Armor troops, its not surprising that after the Jihad these were all over the place. There's added benefit that the Magistracy might be able to purchase parts from the Republic, depending on how nicely they can gloss over that whole "Allied to the Capellans" bit.

So quite a few new suits for the Magistracy, just based on the FM3085 RATs (And of course the 3 Theseus variants and the standard suits are there). I'm not saying the Magistracy has a lot of them, but they can have enough so you shouldn't feel limited to just the Standard IS suit and the Theseus variants when constructing a post Jihad force.

They're still missing heavy and Assault suits, but I'm sure those will come in time, and for now, they've got a pretty solid basis to start with.

edit
Fixed some types
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 29 January 2012, 08:12:01
Good analysis.  O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 16 June 2012, 07:21:45
The MoC had 11 warships on the eve of the Reunification Wars.  Would anyone care to speculate about its composition?  Bear in mind that the fluff from the Concordat frigate mentioned that it was the "backbone" of the fleet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 16 June 2012, 12:13:57
Well, we can assume atleast one Athena got produced. The Dart and the Pinto are good candidates as well with their fluff. The Wagon Wheel is probably out due to low production numbers. The Winchester is out as well as it doesn't make any mention of exports. We also know that the Concordat served in the Magistracy's Navy.

So, 11 ships, 4 classes (Athena, Dart, Pinto, Concordat) so far.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if this is planned or not, but their weights (that we know) are pretty spread out. There's 280,000 tons between the Pinto and the Concordat, and 240,000 between the Concordat and the Dart. Whether this weight differential translates well into distinct roles, I don't know.

We know the Magistracy ended up with 2 WarShips at the end of the Reunification War, and 9 by 2750, and an amazing 22 by 2765. I'm mostly wondering about the 9. We can assume that they're "legal" since it was before the bulking up of the forces for the uprising, but what were they comprised of? Bought Star League ships? Or did the MoC retain the ability to produce the Athena, much like the RWR retained the ability to produce the Pinto?

edit
Fixed a number or two
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 June 2012, 06:34:14
Since the fluff said that the Concordat was the backbone of the fleet in 2575, I'd say that they were probably about 6.
The nature of the Athena could have a big effect on it's numbers.  The Majistracy was only 40 years old at the outbreak of war, so they may not have had time to build shipyards capable of producing warships.  The Hegemony sold stripped-down Dart hulls to the Periphery states.  It's possible that the Majistracy gave these Darts new weapons, beefed up the armor, and called it a new ship class.  If that's the case, there could be more of them than if they had to build them from scratch.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 17 June 2012, 12:01:45
Since the fluff said that the Concordat was the backbone of the fleet in 2575, I'd say that they were probably about 6.

Good a number as any.

Quote
The nature of the Athena could have a big effect on it's numbers.  The Majistracy was only 40 years old at the outbreak of war, so they may not have had time to build shipyards capable of producing warships.  The Hegemony sold stripped-down Dart hulls to the Periphery states.  It's possible that the Majistracy gave these Darts new weapons, beefed up the armor, and called it a new ship class.  If that's the case, there could be more of them than if they had to build them from scratch.

I dunno. Production back then was alot quicker back then it seems. I suppose it could've been an refit which is an interesting idea, I'm just not sure if that would've warranted an entry in StratOps.

Of course, that raises some interesting points. What did happen with the Darts? Were they returned to "factory settings?" Were they experimented on? Refitted with whatever they had? That could be rather interesting....
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 June 2012, 16:01:18
I'd love to know who to beg to get some details. :(
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 18 June 2012, 19:35:35
Herb just posted a rather Canopian picture from the AtoW companion on his facebook page. It is rather interesting....
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 June 2012, 22:25:57
I'd love to know who to beg to get some details. :(

Dunno if we're going to get any. Last Battlechat I went to I asked about future Reunification War products or a Reunification War Supplemental and was told to no to both so..looks like that ship has sailed.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Weirdo on 19 June 2012, 09:02:09
Reunification War has sailed. The Year of the Star League is still ongoing. Until Herb explicitly says that no more products will EVER be made describing the pre-Succession Wars universe, I'll continue to be patient.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Orin J. on 19 June 2012, 11:41:37
Herb just posted a rather Canopian picture from the AtoW companion on his facebook page. It is rather interesting....

i didn't know facebook allowed that sort of thing.  >:D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 19 June 2012, 15:33:59
Herb just posted a rather Canopian picture from the AtoW companion on his facebook page. It is rather interesting....
Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 19 June 2012, 15:36:50
Nope.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 19 June 2012, 17:20:48
Reunification War has sailed. The Year of the Star League is still ongoing. Until Herb explicitly says that no more products will EVER be made describing the pre-Succession Wars universe, I'll continue to be patient.

Of course there's hope for seeing its stats somewhere in a product at some point. jimdigris was asking about details, and I simply responded with what I knew, that when I asked about further Reunification War products, I was told there were none planned.

Obviously there's some hope at some point, but there's nothing public on the burner, that's all I was saying.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Crimson_Langur_1970 on 27 June 2012, 10:01:21
Hi! New here, but I have always loved the MoC!  In the latest era, 3085, I guess, would they be able to field a nice mix of BattleMechs in their units? 

I mean latest tech stuff, re-conditioned Clan 'Mechs, etc.? 

And what Clan or InnerSphere power would they have the most contact with?  I think they used to have ties to the old Free Worlds League, right? 

Thanks! 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 June 2012, 10:16:25
Clan Tech would be really rare to come by, only one unit had a handful of Clantech back in the gravy years before the Jihad, but the top of the line units would all have modern machines while the poor 3rd Light Horse has about one modern 'Mech per lance. Most of there stuff is a mix of general periphery units, locally produced material and Capellan imports with a smattering of Free World material.

Of course with their Magistrix being married to the Chancellor, the Magistracy has the closest ties to the Capellan Confederation but has been working on an alliance with the Duchy of Andurian recently, who they also have some history with.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Crimson_Langur_1970 on 27 June 2012, 10:42:20
Thanks!  For some reason in  my dim memory, I thought it was Marik they were close to, but that Liao connection means they'd probably have a lot of Capellan stuff, as you say.

Guess I need to buy some Vindicators and a Cataphract or two! 

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 June 2012, 11:04:35
Hi! New here, but I have always loved the MoC!  In the latest era, 3085, I guess, would they be able to field a nice mix of BattleMechs in their units?

I mean latest tech stuff, re-conditioned Clan 'Mechs, etc.?

One of the nice things about the Magistracy is that they can field a little bit of everything. They've got cutting edge designs from their factories and from the Capellan factories, while at the same time still retaining Succession War era equipment that they haven't been able to phase out yet.

Clantech, not so much. Traditionally the Magistracy only has access to Clantech that they seemed to have salvaged from their part in Operation Bulldog (all of a lance, based on percentages). There is some data that the Magistracy has purchased some Clantech `Mechs post Jihad, namely the Warhammer IIC 9, but I'll admit it. I don't get it. The fluff on the Warhammer IIC 8 states that the Periphery nations aren't buying the 8 because its too expensive for them, yet we're expected to believe that they're purchasing the Warhammer IIC 9, whose price tag is almost 4 times the cost of the Warhammer IIC 8 (22 million for the 8, 83 million for the 9)?

Not only is the 9 an extra 61 million per `Mech, but it also has 7 tons of Clantech ammo that require the Magistracy to purchase from the Clan dealers. Its a bit much to take in. Not to mention the maintenance and repair fees...

If the fluff on the 9 (which I don't know if there is any actually) had said that the Magistracy had bought one or two to break down and send to their R&D units, that MIGHT be understandable. But enough to show up on the MUL? That's pretty weird. (And lets face it, the Warhammer IIC9 is hardly the best design to pick if you want to do R&D on Clantech...the ER lasers and LRMs are probably well documented by now, the Clan RACs aren't as good as the IS racks last I checked, and if the Clans can't make the XXL engine cost effective, what hope does the Magistracy have?) Right, rant over :)

Quote
And what Clan or InnerSphere power would they have the most contact with?  I think they used to have ties to the old Free Worlds League, right?


The Capellans are their closest buddies right now, what with Naomi and Sun Tzu being married and having kids. The Anduriens are worth a mention as well, but I think in 3085 its more of a wary "Lets hope they and the CapCon don't start fighting," more than a solid alliance, but they definitely have quite a bit of contact (The Anduriens saved Naomi once, and she's been there once or twice on a diplomatic mission).

The Taurians have kind of fallen by the wayside, and the Trinity Alliance from the Taurian perspective is pretty much gone.

Thanks!  For some reason in  my dim memory, I thought it was Marik they were close to, but that Liao connection means they'd probably have a lot of Capellan stuff, as you say.

Guess I need to buy some Vindicators and a Cataphract or two!

They're pretty close to parts of the FWL, they did ally with Andurien in the 3030's, and they probably have strong economic ties with the FWL since they share a mostly peaceful border, but they're definitely closer to the CapCon at this point.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Crimson_Langur_1970 on 27 June 2012, 12:09:07
What 'Mechs do the currently (3085) produce? 

Thanks! 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 June 2012, 14:07:32
Its hard to say exactly. the Objectives series that's supposed to handle post-Jihad production hasn't made it to the Periphery edition yet.

Pre-Jihad, the Magistracy produced the Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Shadow Hawk and Marauder (and most likely the Vampyr ScavengerMech, but that seems to get overlooked as an Industrial).

Detroit produced the Anubis, Ostroc, Stinger, Marshal and Wasp.

What production they have post-Jihad isn't exactly known. Flipping through the various TROs shows that they're still producing a Wasp and a Stinger, the Locust is a little unclearer, as is the Shadow Hawk and Marauder. I don't think we've seen anything about what exactly Detroit continues to produce.

New designs that we know are the Phoenix Hawk 4W (The MoC managed to capture a WoB factory, I assume they're still producing it), the Penthesilea from TRO3085 and the Deep Lord MilitiaMech from TRO Prototypes. The Ebony seems to be produced on Canopus, but there's some question as to whether its full production, or simply final assembly.

Exact variants are kind of hard to come by, hopefully we'll see the Objectives series finished up sometime soon.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 27 June 2012, 15:03:09
According to Field Manual: 3085, the First Canopian Cuirassiers get the option of having one lance per battalion be rolled up from the Diamond Shark RAT (treating the lance as a second-line Clan force). It's not clear if the pilots are actual Clan solahma forces (perhaps on loan from the Shark/Foxes?) or Canopians, though.

It's not hard to imagine the Shark/Foxes making regular stops at Canopus IV in their pursuit of trade and whatnot.


The League (or rather, Andurien) was more of a a factor in the Magistracy in the wake of the Reunification War; while Operation ARDENT SHIELD was politically unavoidable at the time, both sides adhered to the Ares Conventions, and the "Good Neighbours" policy pursued by the Humphreys clan helped to set a more positive tone between the League (or, again, Andurien) and the MoC.

Although I suppose it's ironic that the power which the Magestrix is now literally in bed with happened to occupy Andurien itself back during the Star League era...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 June 2012, 16:03:59
According to Field Manual: 3085, the First Canopian Cuirassiers get the option of having one lance per battalion be rolled up from the Diamond Shark RAT (treating the lance as a second-line Clan force). It's not clear if the pilots are actual Clan solahma forces (perhaps on loan from the Shark/Foxes?) or Canopians, though.

It's not hard to imagine the Shark/Foxes making regular stops at Canopus IV in their pursuit of trade and whatnot.

Interesting. I guess I should read those a little closer. My guess is they're Canopians rather than Diamond Sharks. Buying Clan `Mechs from the Sharks is one thing, integrating Solahma forces is quite another thing and worthy of being mentioned at some point, IMO.

I still find the Warhammer IIC 9 an odd choice, but atleast the RAT gives them a few more choices (some interesting ones as well, including Star League era designs, Capellan OmniMechs and Royals).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 27 June 2012, 16:16:58
Its hard to say exactly. the Objectives series that's supposed to handle post-Jihad production hasn't made it to the Periphery edition yet.

Pre-Jihad, the Magistracy produced the Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Shadow Hawk and Marauder (and most likely the Vampyr ScavengerMech, but that seems to get overlooked as an Industrial).

Detroit produced the Anubis, Ostroc, Stinger, Marshal and Wasp.

What production they have post-Jihad isn't exactly known. Flipping through the various TROs shows that they're still producing a Wasp and a Stinger, the Locust is a little unclearer, as is the Shadow Hawk and Marauder. I don't think we've seen anything about what exactly Detroit continues to produce.

New designs that we know are the Phoenix Hawk 4W (The MoC managed to capture a WoB factory, I assume they're still producing it), the Penthesilea from TRO3085 and the Deep Lord MilitiaMech from TRO Prototypes. The Ebony seems to be produced on Canopus, but there's some question as to whether its full production, or simply final assembly.

Exact variants are kind of hard to come by, hopefully we'll see the Objectives series finished up sometime soon.

They also produce the Koschei 5MC and the Eyleuka during and after the Jihad.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 June 2012, 16:48:40
Oops, completely forgot about those, thanks!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Crimson_Langur_1970 on 28 June 2012, 10:59:51
I have the 3085 TRO, and the Eyleuka looks like a fun design, and the mini looks pretty nice. I also like the weapons loadout on the standard version.

My friends and I plan to play some games in the 3039 ERA, but I also intend to build a parallel Canopian force for the most current era.  The discussion up-thread about MOC having access to some second-line Clan stuff really throws the doors wide open for all sorts of cool stuff. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 June 2012, 11:02:49
Well, one unit within the MoC.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 June 2012, 13:33:14
And only 3 lances out of an entire regiment.

Which admittedly is a 200% increase from what they had before, but its still pretty limited.

I honestly hope they don't get too much of it. The occasional `Mech is fine, but I doubt the Magistracy can really afford the maintenance and purchasing of Clantech.

And as an aside..wow. That's a heck of a distance for the Diamond Sharks to travel. I thought most of the enclaves were in the Coreward part of the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Weirdo on 28 June 2012, 14:42:35
The Sharks have an entire scientist subcaste devoted to the problem of the Traveling Salesman.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 28 June 2012, 16:40:02
I know it's brutally ugly, but the Penthesilea is also in production, both the standard and the LB20 variant.  C'mon guys, we can't forget those!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 June 2012, 17:38:13
I mentioned it a couple of posts ago :)

Interestingly, in a quick game I played the other day, the lack of items that could be crit'd in the LT really screwed me over as a critical hit to the LT transferred immediately into the CT...twice :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 28 June 2012, 17:56:43
I mentioned it a couple of posts ago :)

Interestingly, in a quick game I played the other day, the lack of items that could be crit'd in the LT really screwed me over as a critical hit to the LT transferred immediately into the CT...twice :)

Yeah, I had a similar experience with it while playing around before writing the article on it up.  It's a very solid design overall but that flaw tends to be unpleasant when it comes up.  At least it's not the Marauder's left torso.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 28 June 2012, 19:30:14
I know it's brutally ugly, but the Penthesilea is also in production, both the standard and the LB20 variant.  C'mon guys, we can't forget those!

I didn't forget, I blocked it out.  Too fugly to be in my MAF units.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Weirdo on 28 June 2012, 19:41:41
Bah. Ask a FWL player about the Yeoman, then talk about fugly. 8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 28 June 2012, 19:49:29
Bah. Ask a FWL player about the Yeoman, then talk about fugly. 8)

How else were you going to tenderize those branth burgers?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 29 June 2012, 13:02:59
I have the 3085 TRO, and the Eyleuka looks like a fun design, and the mini looks pretty nice. I also like the weapons loadout on the standard version.

My friends and I plan to play some games in the 3039 ERA, but I also intend to build a parallel Canopian force for the most current era.  The discussion up-thread about MOC having access to some second-line Clan stuff really throws the doors wide open for all sorts of cool stuff.

The Magistry falls for small cockpits and SNPPCs.  Sort of a strange combination.  But then, the Eyleuka is a strange bird itself.  It's hardly a line unit, but it can do a ton of tricks and move around fast, which seems to be the direction in which the MAF is moving.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 30 June 2012, 09:20:07
The Magistry falls for small cockpits and SNPPCs.  Sort of a strange combination.  But then, the Eyleuka is a strange bird itself.  It's hardly a line unit, but it can do a ton of tricks and move around fast, which seems to be the direction in which the MAF is moving.

The units we've seen in the Jihad and beyond are definitely an interesting mix. Now if we can just get a homegrown assault unit..if Randis can do it, I don't see why the MoC can't :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 30 June 2012, 16:57:03
That would mean MoC would need to not be light centric on mechs.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 30 June 2012, 20:40:12
That would mean MoC would need to not be light centric on mechs.
They're not.  About half the 'Mechs in the Magistracy are mediums, the rest are split between medium and light and a smattering of assaults.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 30 June 2012, 23:20:40
They're not.  About half the 'Mechs in the Magistracy are mediums, the rest are split between medium and light and a smattering of assaults.

I'm not sure if I'd be interested in seeing the reasoning behind that or not :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 01 July 2012, 00:58:37
I'm not sure if I'd be interested in seeing the reasoning behind that or not :)
It's what they collected over time?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 01 July 2012, 03:23:38
Right, I'm just wondering how you came to that conclusion. I didn't think there was any data on how heavy the MAF's regiments were, except for 3025 data.

I'm not necessarily disputing the fact (limited assaults, production of lights, mediums for so long, etc), I'm just curious where the data comes from.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 01 July 2012, 12:07:22
Their manufacturing base.

Mediums:  Marshal, Shadowhawk, Eyleuka
Lights: Locust, Stinger, Wasp, Ebony, Anubis

There's that captured Blakist factory too, but the light still outnumber the mediums.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 01 July 2012, 14:37:41
Their manufacturing base.

Mediums:  Marshal, Shadowhawk, Eyleuka
Lights: Locust, Stinger, Wasp, Ebony, Anubis

There's that captured Blakist factory too, but the light still outnumber the mediums.
Those are classes, there's no mention of how many machines are being made.  If they're producing 100 Marshals, Shadowhawks, and Eyleukas a year vs only 10 of each light frame, then you have 300 mediums and 50 light mechs.   This does not mean you have mostly light 'mechs.

As far as the 'Mech force, I admit to basing that on the old Periphery Sourcebook, but without further mention of force weight there really isn't any way to know one way or another.  And you can always use the random weight tables...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 02 July 2012, 08:48:33
Fine fine, are we good if I rephrase it as tending toward the lower weight classes?  It's more implied than overt, from my perspective.  Considering that they have two Locust, Stinger and Wasp factories that's 8 light factories right there.

Just saying, i'm not shocked they don't have an assault mech.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Alan Grant on 08 July 2012, 15:07:09
Question for the Canopian fans.

I've been reading about the old British Regimental System, where officers purchased their commissions. Obviously this has some parallels to the MoC.

In the British Army up to a point in the 19th century, you bought your commission, at which point you effectively owned it, like an asset. Many British Army officers basically sold their commissions when they retired, often it has accrued value and they might use the funds from that to buy a pension.

I'm wondering if the same concept holds true in the MoC. You buy your commission, do you at that point own it? Is it a commodity? If you purchase a promotion from one rank to the next higher rank, do you "sell" your previous rank to recoup some of the expense?

Or are you just making a 'donation' that helps you acquire that rank, and if you want a promotion, you offer another donation. Bribery basically.

Which sounds more accurate?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 08 July 2012, 16:07:58
FMP at one point refers to it as a "tribute" and FM3085 has an officer who receives "the ruby Canopus Cluster without having to pay the 'donation,'" but that's a medal not a rank. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 08 July 2012, 18:47:37
I've not heard anything about anyone being able to sell their rank.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 09 July 2012, 08:16:38
Question for the Canopian fans.

I've been reading about the old British Regimental System, where officers purchased their commissions. Obviously this has some parallels to the MoC.

In the British Army up to a point in the 19th century, you bought your commission, at which point you effectively owned it, like an asset. Many British Army officers basically sold their commissions when they retired, often it has accrued value and they might use the funds from that to buy a pension.

I'm wondering if the same concept holds true in the MoC. You buy your commission, do you at that point own it? Is it a commodity? If you purchase a promotion from one rank to the next higher rank, do you "sell" your previous rank to recoup some of the expense?

Or are you just making a 'donation' that helps you acquire that rank, and if you want a promotion, you offer another donation. Bribery basically.

Which sounds more accurate?

It's an odd practice, that's for sure.  When Doru came over from the TDF Emma broke out her check book and was like "Okay, this is gonna be expesive."  This kinda indicates to me that it isn't outright bribery if the head of the nation has to do it to make a "contractor" legit.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 10 July 2012, 14:23:06
I think Emma only had to worry about negotiating his stipend as Senior General; Danai had already forwarded enough for a colonel's commission to an account for him on Canopus IV prior to her death on the Clan front.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 July 2012, 08:37:19
So what's everyone's thoughts on the data that's been coming out of Liberation of Terra Vol 1 and FM:SLDF on the situation in the Magistracy and the data on the various units?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 20 July 2012, 08:58:27
So what's everyone's thoughts on the data that's been coming out of Liberation of Terra Vol 1 and FM:SLDF on the situation in the Magistracy and the data on the various units?
Emma died on Canopus fighting the Blakist trash that invaded her planet. It was Danai that died fighting alongside Victor in the Great Refusal
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 20 July 2012, 13:34:33
So what's everyone's thoughts on the data that's been coming out of Liberation of Terra Vol 1 and FM:SLDF on the situation in the Magistracy and the data on the various units?
The three troopers in the 108th who got kicked out for uniform violation had me rolling.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 July 2012, 20:45:41
Yeah, that was a rather interesting case. Some of the information written down for units that we know are going to go rogue from the Star League Sourcebook is quite illuminating. Some of the readiness reports also explain how the Magistracy managed to destroy 5 out of 6 BattleMech divisions during the uprising.

A little disappointed that we didn't get more details, but it doesn't seem to be the type of book for that. There are a few hints of interesting things, but nothing really concrete.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 22 August 2012, 13:56:30
OooOOOooooh, I want to thank the MUL fairies for the pretty presents they left us.  HPPC-equipped Brutus tanks and RVN-3Ms!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 August 2012, 00:22:30
Heh. The Raven 3M is still marked as Clantech.

I wish there was a way to track the MUL data, rather than just occasionally doing a search, and comparing it to the old version.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 23 August 2012, 02:38:58
I usually do a search when I hear of updates; I've got a spreadsheet of what's in the list the last time I looked.  And other things that we get according to the fluff that aren't in the MUL yet is the GRF-5L Griffin, CRD-8L Crusader, WHM-5L Warhammer, DOL-1A1 Dola, and...the mighty Deep Lord.  Well, five of six isn't bad, and I'm sure we can figure out something to do with those Crusaders...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 August 2012, 12:45:29
Alot of the BA data from FM:3085 is missing as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 26 December 2012, 17:10:04
Any Canopian info in Interstellar Expeditions?  Not details, but is it worth buying for a Canopian fan?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 December 2012, 19:07:25
I don't know if it makes the entire book worth purchasing, but there's a section called the "Canopian Ruins." It details some of the planets that the Magistracy lost after the Fall of the Star League (like Kleinwelt and Skyfog), and one or two planets that are nearby, and one or two planets that had some Star League era hijinx going on.

There's nothing really Canopus shattering however.  Even the GM section is just "Here are some questions that might make good plot points" rather than something like "This is what's going on here."

There's also details on a planet that IE is studying that's basically primitive humans, and another group of systems settled during the Reunification War by Taurians and Canopians that seems to flipflop between a Matriarchy and Patriarchy after each revolution
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 27 December 2012, 09:06:56
Don't forget the merfolk!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 December 2012, 13:27:41
Oh look, Objectives Periphery is out.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 27 December 2012, 15:42:08
Oh look, Objectives Periphery is out.

Yay, I was going to buy it as a Christmas present for someone and then Christmas happened and it wasn't there and I cried.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 27 December 2012, 17:00:22
Oh look, Objectives Periphery is out.

Good read it is to.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 December 2012, 21:33:49
I assume that the operating capacity of the various Novis AT-H factories should be 100% instead of 0%.

I also find it interesting that, despite the MoC never needing to produce Primitive `Mechs, they're producing quite a few. Hopefully there's quite a bit of exporting going on, and maybe we'll see those factories converted to standard `Mechs

No news on the Dictators though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 28 December 2012, 00:54:00
I assume that the operating capacity of the various Novis AT-H factories should be 100% instead of 0%.

I also find it interesting that, despite the MoC never needing to produce Primitive `Mechs, they're producing quite a few. Hopefully there's quite a bit of exporting going on, and maybe we'll see those factories converted to standard `Mechs

No news on the Dictators though.
0% losses in the Jihad is most likely, and the 100% function just got pushed off the table.  As far as Primitives, I see mention here and there of "production will taper off as proper mechs come online" but well...I'd say hell, keep churning them out.  Put them in your secondline formations, militias and whatnot, and free up proper battletanks and whatnot for the main defenses.  I daresay things like a Thunderbolt or Shadowhawk or Ostwar could do a number on a pirate group.  And well, considering the technological situation the MOC is still in as far as upgraded tech goes, well, any mechs are good mechs.

As far as what some people are calling an error, it's simple - the book says the Canopians were never forced to build primitives.  In that same paragraph, the very next second follows it up with an explanation - all their modern battlemech lines stayed open; they never really lost anything in the Jihad.  They chose to expand, but it wasn't a case of "primitives or nothing."

Good catch on the Dictators though. They're certainly not being built within the MoC as we know it; maybe there's a hint in ISP3?  Or else they really did just capture/recover a bunch of them somewhere...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 December 2012, 01:35:41
As far as what some people are calling an error, it's simple - the book says the Canopians were never forced to build primitives.  In that same paragraph, the very next second follows it up with an explanation - all their modern battlemech lines stayed open; they never really lost anything in the Jihad.  They chose to expand, but it wasn't a case of "primitives or nothing."


Yeah, I'm not sure I'd call it an error, just sort of surprised that so many popped up when it wasn't strictly necessary. More of a money making scheme than a desperate measure. Hopefully as time goes on the production would get upgraded to standard BattleMechs. I'm sure the remnants of the FWL are a good place to sell both primitive and standard BattleMechs, not to mention using the primitives to bulk out militias and training companies for a while.

Quote
Good catch on the Dictators though. They're certainly not being built within the MoC as we know it; maybe there's a hint in ISP3?  Or else they really did just capture/recover a bunch of them somewhere...

Well, they could be producing them in the Magistracy and its just that the RotS doesn't know :) But yeah. I was looking over ISP3 the other day and I wonder if Midden might hold the answer. Its just a random thought, but maybe its a boneyard as well as a "Dumping" ground.

Interestingly, it looks like they put the Princess into production. Considering how expensive and complex its supposed to be, I don't see the MoC having any trouble with the Dictator.

The final interesting bit is that each time the Magistracy's BA lines are mentioned, its called "Trinity" Battle Armor. For the Taurians, its listed as the "Asterion." I wonder if this is because Detroit and Foxx are producing several different kinds of suits, Theseus, Asterion and Yin Long, or if its just because of a different author. (I also suspect that different authors is the reason for none of the components like engines are mentioned in the MoC writeups like they are for the TC).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 December 2012, 08:39:43
(I also suspect that different authors is the reason for none of the components like engines are mentioned in the MoC writeups like they are for the TC).

Different authors? There's only one author for Operations: Periphery. Unless Geoff has multiple personalities and hasn't told us.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: 97jedi on 28 December 2012, 12:12:09
Maybe some of me told you, and some did not.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 December 2012, 16:22:32
Really? Huh, strange. I would've expected different sections to have different authors.

So why does one part name the Asterion exactly, but others use the term Trinity? Does this mean the MoC is producing multiple types of the Trinity armor? And why does one section go into detail down to engines and weapons while the other doesn't?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 December 2012, 16:26:28
Really? Huh, strange. I would've expected different sections to have different authors.
Good lord, with those small sections? The data was supplied by the Factory section of the MUL team.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 December 2012, 17:43:03
So any thoughts on the extra section of the Foxx Infantry Systems?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 28 December 2012, 17:49:13
So any thoughts on the extra section of the Foxx Infantry Systems?

That new line is probably going to build either the Theseus "Kill-Shot", or one of the two Asterion (Upgrade) kits.  See RS 3085 ONN.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 December 2012, 18:16:16
That was my thought as well, though they're already producing that Theseus someplace. Despite appearing in 3085, they've been around since the early 3070's. Though I suppose they could be looking to crank them out in two places so they can build their forces up.

The Asterion Upgrade is unlikely, since it seems to be TC only.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 13:44:59
I've looked over several of the Magistracy maps during specific eras like the height of the Star League and 3068 and notice a number of planets disappear from the Magistracy's territory. 

Planets like "Mondra" or "Kleinwelt" simply vanish from the maps. 

Is there much detail that describes if these planets broke away or if they simply died out as failed colonies?  You'd think if they died out, the Magistracy would be interested in restarting them instead of messing with all the political wrangling with the Taurians over the Fronc region (and that ultimately backfired).

Just curious.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 10 January 2013, 15:05:59
There are failed colonies, and then there are radioactive hulks orbiting a star. >:D See how many planets the Capellans lose (not to other States) between 2822 and 3025.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 10 January 2013, 15:53:19
Kleinwelt is one of the worlds of the region now referred to as the Canopian Ruins in the recent Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2209.msg554807.html#msg554807); there's a write-up for the world in that file, and it's shown on the rimward sector map also published there.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 16:53:12
Another Question:

The Magistracy is said to have Catgirls.  Is that official canon?  Is there a book that discusses women who want to undergo "feline augmentation?"
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 16:55:01
Though an even better question would be what sort of augmentations should there be if you wanted to play as a Catgirl in Time of War.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 10 January 2013, 17:19:25
The RPG rules are in the Time of War Companion.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 17:22:02
Is that book out yet?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 January 2013, 17:23:48
Is that book out yet?
As a .pdf, probably still at the printers for a print copy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 17:26:37
Ok thanks.  I prefer buying the books, personally so I'll look into that
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 January 2013, 17:30:49
There are failed colonies, and then there are radioactive hulks orbiting a star. >:D See how many planets the Capellans lose (not to other States) between 2822 and 3025.

Keep in mind that except for a few limited conflicts, the Periphery mostly stayed out of the Succession Wars. They didn't lose their planets (directly) to conflicts, they lost them due to economic and technological difficulties (There's one planet that was lost/damaged due to a bioweapon attack by the Taurians). The only other chance for them to have been lost to warfare is during the Periphery Uprising in the 2760's, and the Star League's response. I have no doubt that the fighting there was incredibly brutal, and utilized nuclear weapons, but I doubt it was on the Planetary killing level (though again, damage could lead to technological loss, which leads to colony loss).

Is there much detail that describes if these planets broke away or if they simply died out as failed colonies?  You'd think if they died out, the Magistracy would be interested in restarting them instead of messing with all the political wrangling with the Taurians over the Fronc region (and that ultimately backfired).

There isn't much data on why those colonies disappeared. As Nerroth said, there's some data in the most recent ISP book, but only on 2 or 3 planets (including one that wasn't on the 2750 Magistracy Map). Like the loss of most of the planets in the BT universe during the Succession Wars, there just isn't alot of specific data.

As to why they went with new colonies instead of restarting older ones, well, if you look at the maps, they did a little of both. The Magistracy rediscovered/reconnected/repopulated some colonies, such as Vixen and Kossandra's Memory, while they also went into the Fronc Reaches with the Taurians. Politics explains most of the Fronc Reaches. It was supposed to be a joint Periphery project between the Magistracy and Taurians, to reinforce trade and political ties. The Magistracy isn't able to stand isolated, and this was a good way to get room to expand, while having someone else help pay for it, as well as linking to two nations together.

As to why they didn't go for some of the other colonies that the previously had, it could be that they went for the ones that are easier to connect with/to rebuild. Its possible that they ones they haven't rebuilt require technology that's still too expensive, or still not available to the Magistracy to become viable again.

Though an even better question would be what sort of augmentations should there be if you wanted to play as a Catgirl in Time of War.

I was working on an Ebon Magistrate Catgirl a while back for fun, I might have to continue, though its not technically by the rules since I think you have to buy augmentations with XP during Chargen..
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 17:46:15
Thanks Maelwys.

As to why they went with new colonies instead of restarting older ones, well, if you look at the maps, they did a little of both. The Magistracy rediscovered/reconnected/repopulated some colonies, such as Vixen and Kossandra's Memory, while they also went into the Fronc Reaches with the Taurians. Politics explains most of the Fronc Reaches. It was supposed to be a joint Periphery project between the Magistracy and Taurians, to reinforce trade and political ties. The Magistracy isn't able to stand isolated, and this was a good way to get room to expand, while having someone else help pay for it, as well as linking to two nations together.

As to why they didn't go for some of the other colonies that the previously had, it could be that they went for the ones that are easier to connect with/to rebuild. Its possible that they ones they haven't rebuilt require technology that's still too expensive, or still not available to the Magistracy to become viable again.

I understand the need to seek out help in the Periphery, especially with the MoC because their planets don't appear to be quite as heavily populated as the Taurians or even Alphard.  I suppose those former colonies would also be targets to Marian pirates or other pirate groups and would require additional armed forces to protect them.  It looks like their policies are more targeted toward political strengthening rather than internal strengthening.

I was working on an Ebon Magistrate Catgirl a while back for fun, I might have to continue, though its not technically by the rules since I think you have to buy augmentations with XP during Chargen..

Also, I'd love to see what you came up with.  I once made a Pleasure Circus performer who played a mermaid, but didn't undergo any surgery to make it permanent.  I wonder if the Catgirl augmentations should counted as the Cosmetic Surgery that gives you the Attractive trait.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 10 January 2013, 18:00:05
If I remember correctly, my FLGS in Toronto has had print copies of A Time of War Companion in stock already.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 January 2013, 18:13:13
Thanks Maelwys.

No problem.

Quote
I understand the need to seek out help in the Periphery, especially with the MoC because their planets don't appear to be quite as heavily populated as the Taurians or even Alphard.  I suppose those former colonies would also be targets to Marian pirates or other pirate groups and would require additional armed forces to protect them.  It looks like their policies are more targeted toward political strengthening rather than internal strengthening.

Populations in BT have always been weird. Trying to figure them out, or how/why their changing is almost impossible. Or what the effects are going to be.

Though I'd have to disagree with the premise that the Magistracy is going for political strength rather than internal. They did infact reclaim quite a few worlds, and at the same time, they've managed to improve their economy, build new production facilities, and increase their military to the point that its the largest in the Periphery (until the Ravens showed up most likely).

Quote
Also, I'd love to see what you came up with.  I once made a Pleasure Circus performer who played a mermaid, but didn't undergo any surgery to make it permanent.  I wonder if the Catgirl augmentations should counted as the Cosmetic Surgery that gives you the Attractive trait.

I'll have to flip through it and finalize a few things and post it at some point. Its mostly tongue in cheek, though it is kind of amusing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 10 January 2013, 18:44:50
Specifically catgirls, no.  There is mention of SLDF troops, in the recent Field Manual, getting "animal-themed prosthetics" which is about as close as anyone's going to get.  There is also the infamous mermaid, oh wait.

Yes, catgirls are canon.  A Time Of War, page 188.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 18:49:39
Specifically catgirls, no.  There is mention of SLDF troops, in the recent Field Manual, getting "animal-themed prosthetics" which is about as close as anyone's going to get.  There is also the infamous mermaid, oh wait.

Yes, catgirls are canon.  A Time Of War, page 188.

That is so awesome!  I'll make a request that they include the surgical procedures in the next rules supplement! 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 18:57:46
No problem.
Populations in BT have always been weird. Trying to figure them out, or how/why their changing is almost impossible. Or what the effects are going to be.

In the "Major Periphery States" book it said that Canopus IV only had about a billion people, whereas Alphard has like four billion.  It's surprising that the Lothian League was able to put up any amount of resistance with Lothario's barely two million planetary population.

Though I'd have to disagree with the premise that the Magistracy is going for political strength rather than internal. They did infact reclaim quite a few worlds, and at the same time, they've managed to improve their economy, build new production facilities, and increase their military to the point that its the largest in the Periphery (until the Ravens showed up most likely).

Well, what I meant was that previously the Magistracy worked a bit more internally using their own industries and people to improve their infrastructure.  I can't remember the name of the exact company, but the Magestrix herself once stepped in and revitalized a failing corporation rather than seeking out other corporations to replace it.  You did see a dramatic shift in their politics by becoming friendly with the Capellans and the Taurians.  Previous to the 3060's, they were friendly, but preferred to go it on their own.

At least that's how I saw it.  Of course, there are many more books I need to pick up.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 January 2013, 20:00:00
That is so awesome!  I'll make a request that they include the surgical procedures in the next rules supplement!
No need, it's all there
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 10 January 2013, 21:24:52
No need, it's all there

D: 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 January 2013, 07:30:39
In the "Major Periphery States" book it said that Canopus IV only had about a billion people, whereas Alphard has like four billion.  It's surprising that the Lothian League was able to put up any amount of resistance with Lothario's barely two million planetary population.

2 and 3 billion respectively, I think. But populations and their affects have always been weird.

Quote
Well, what I meant was that previously the Magistracy worked a bit more internally using their own industries and people to improve their infrastructure.  I can't remember the name of the exact company, but the Magestrix herself once stepped in and revitalized a failing corporation rather than seeking out other corporations to replace it.  You did see a dramatic shift in their politics by becoming friendly with the Capellans and the Taurians.  Previous to the 3060's, they were friendly, but preferred to go it on their own.

True, Emma Centrella did try to build up her own nation's economy. Which makes sense. But I think even she realized that eventually there was only so much you could do on your own. Hence outside interests.

Interestingly for the catgirl, there isn't a "package" option like there is for the Mermaid, Centaur and Naga. You've got to build it up piece by piece.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 11 January 2013, 08:46:58
That is so awesome!  I'll make a request that they include the surgical procedures in the next rules supplement!
Sorry, A Time Of War COMPANION.  And yes the rules are quite in there, for either genetic mods or surgery and prosthetics.  Page 49.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 11 January 2013, 14:20:06
Sorry, A Time Of War COMPANION.  And yes the rules are quite in there, for either genetic mods or surgery and prosthetics.  Page 49.

Well, I ordered the book last night.  Can't wait to check it out!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 14 January 2013, 00:41:41
I read through the Field Manual: 3085 and noticed something interesting.  According the the lore, in 3085 after the Jihad the Periphery nations effective strengths is as following:

BattleMech Strength-

Magistracy of Canopus:        16 regiments
Taurian Concordat:                6 regiments, 2 battalions
Marian Hegemony:                 6 legions, 1 cohort (approximately 8 regiments)
Calderon Protectorate:          5 regiments
Filtvelt Coalition:                    3 regiments, 1 battalion
Fronc Reaches:                      3 regiments

Considering how the Magistracy recovered their industry with very little issue and rebuilt their mildly damaged facilities on Canopus and Detroit, the Magistracy is by FAR the strongest force in the Periphery (except if you count the Ravens Alliance).  The closest two powers would be the Hegemony which are about to lose an entire legion since the Fourth Legion is pretty much siding with the Lothian League rebels, and the TDF is in shambles after war with the Federated Suns.

The biggest caveats?  Well, several regiments need updated equipment and are better suited to fighting pirates...but the biggest hurdle?  The Magistracy isn't an empire builder!  That's why I love the Magistracy so much!  Even with Capellan allies the Magistracy and its people doesn't seem as interested in expansion like its neighbors (with the exception of the failed invasion of Capellan space with Andurian).

It'll be interesting to see how they write the Magistracy in the upcoming decades.  They're the biggest and most powerful state in the Periphery and allied with a Successor State (even if it is the Capellans).  They're lacking in serious rivals, and their largest concern is probably updating their units' equipment and not getting pulled into any wars the Chancellor starts.

Just thought I'd share  O:-)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 15 January 2013, 09:18:35
With Andurien in the fold, that opens up tons of great potential for the MAF.  The Canopians have mechs, the Anduriens have conventional and aerospace units.  That's a decent combination.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 15 January 2013, 15:33:17
With Andurien in the fold, that opens up tons of great potential for the MAF.  The Canopians have mechs, the Anduriens have conventional and aerospace units.  That's a decent combination.

I think in the book it also states that the Magistracy is trying to increase the size and quality of its aerospace assets since during the Jihad the Blakists almost always had the advantage in that area and it complicated defenses.  I also know that sometime in the near future, Duke Humphries and Ilsa Centrella get married which helps cement positive relationships between the Canopians, Capellans and Andurians.

Gotta love how the Canopians help historical enemies get laid ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 15 January 2013, 15:50:20
Canopians and Anduriens were friends.  The Canopians were a little more fairweather in light of the Andurien Crisis.  It's a good match.  Andurien Aerotech has a nice range of products.  Just a shame about Lopez.  Assuming Detroit is still sending Troikas over to the MoC, they have a solid selection.

On the conventional side, Moltkes, Aerons, Harassers, Thumpers and Galleons.  In cross trade the Anduriens would get LSRM Carriers, HLRM Carriers, Po HTs, Pikes, Manticores, Tamerlanes, Danais and Trinity BA.  Good, good stuff.  Some of it is redundant, like Danais and Thumpers (although, they have somewhat different applications, thanks to the slightly higher speed of the Danai), and the Moltke could easily overshadow the Manticore series.  None the less, a combined industrial base that could allow the 2 states some breathing room.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 15 January 2013, 15:55:22
I know, right!?  The MoC is by far the strongest Periphery power, but they don't seem that interested in conquest like their neighbors.  It would be really easy to justify "recovering our former colonies" of the Fronc Regions, or "halting the expansion of the Marian Caesar" by declaring war on those two groups respectively, but they don't seem to have that in mind.

Instead they'll do what they always have done: quietly build up their assets, improve the standard of living for their people, and have more fun than the rest of the Inner Sphere combined.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 15 January 2013, 16:34:33
I dunno.  The expansion of both their armed forces and their industrial base under Emma would suggest that they have more than national security in mind.  That's not to say that MoC is the 6th IS power, just that they have not just sat idly by.  Some of their choices, like marrying into the Laio dynasty might be regretful, but in the short term they've been ambitious for a Periphery nation.  I like to think of them as a wild card faction.  Just don't too excited.  Herb is bound to give them a good drumming eventually.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 15 January 2013, 22:18:20
*nods* no, I hear ya.  It is interesting how far they've come as a Periphery state compared to their neighbors is all.  The Magistracy still lags considerably behind the Inner Sphere in equipment, technology and Mech strength, so it would also be foolish to try and pick a fight.  Geez, I should have some pompoms for how much I'm cheerleading for the Magistracy :P

And yes, I don't doubt that Herb will smack them down a peg.  There is a Dark Age approaching where they do lose a number of their planets...but then again, so does everyone else.  The Taurians probably taught a lot of nations just how far you can fall despite being so awesome for so long.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 16 January 2013, 17:46:57
Perhaps the Majistracy will be used to knock someone else down a peg, like the Liao family. >:D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 16 January 2013, 18:04:59
Perhaps the Majistracy will be used to knock someone else down a peg, like the Liao family. >:D

Well, I believe they are poised to take the Capellan throne with their offspring.  Not to mention, the Centrella bloodline might help get the crazy out of the Liaos over time.  But not immediately because I think they eventually have an incestuous birth.  Lawls...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 17 January 2013, 13:26:08
Personally, I'd love to see it pulled off, but its even more fun to poke at the Cappies with the idea of it. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 17 January 2013, 13:42:34
Well, I believe they are poised to take the Capellan throne with their offspring.  Not to mention, the Centrella bloodline might help get the crazy out of the Liaos over time.  But not immediately because I think they eventually have an incestuous birth.  Lawls...

It didn't stop Daoshen.  Creepy stuff going down in the Magistracy.

And who's to know how the future of Capellan-Canopian relations will go.  I was given the impression that Ari Humphries was supposed to act as a sort of check against Daoshen pushing Ilsa around.  Sure, Andurien-Canopus isn't going to defeat the CapCon.  But, Daoshen won't be able to bully the Canopians and invade the crumbling Republic at the same time.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 17 January 2013, 16:27:40
It didn't stop Daoshen.  Creepy stuff going down in the Magistracy.

And who's to know how the future of Capellan-Canopian relations will go.  I was given the impression that Ari Humphries was supposed to act as a sort of check against Daoshen pushing Ilsa around.  Sure, Andurien-Canopus isn't going to defeat the CapCon.  But, Daoshen won't be able to bully the Canopians and invade the crumbling Republic at the same time.

As far as I know, the future leaders of the Capellan Confederation and the Magistracy are brother and sister with the brother leading the Capellan Confederation and the sister the Magistracy.  I suppose the political allegiance of those two realms depends largely on how well the siblings get along....which is apparently quite well because they have a child together.  I also know that in some of the Dark Age maps it lists Detroit as being under Capellan control.

I had a chance to ask Herb about that, and the way he saw it was that the Canopians still owned Detroit, they used the CCAF to act as garrison forces.  Then again, it might be a bit too early to tell as far as lore is concerned.  Things have a penchant of changing over time.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 21 January 2013, 22:36:53
I'm not terribly bothered about who has boots on the ground on Detroit.  The MOC has benefited greatly from allying with the CC, but undeniably remains the junior partner.  I accept that the CCAF will rate higher preference than most MAF units.  But as the CCAF replaces and updates their own mechs and equipment, the older but solid mechs end up in MAF hands.  Its a gradual process, and honestly, I'd rather more C-bills be spent on Canopian factories and facilities.  Detroit was nice while it lasted, and undoubtedly the MAF still gets some of their stuff from it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 21 January 2013, 23:05:43
Yeah, I was happy to see factories showing up in the Magistracy during the Jihad, even if they're only producing Tamerlanes right now (have to start somewhere) and Battle Armor.

I was also glad to see the Princess Luxury Liner went into production, though I can't help but think "they REALLY need to produce a transport bigger than a Leopard eventually."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 21 January 2013, 23:20:36
Yeah, I was happy to see factories showing up in the Magistracy during the Jihad, even if they're only producing Tamerlanes right now (have to start somewhere) and Battle Armor.

I was also glad to see the Princess Luxury Liner went into production, though I can't help but think "they REALLY need to produce a transport bigger than a Leopard eventually."

I'd prefer an upgrade to making the Lung Wang, for starters.  Much more useful overall than the Leo.  Past that, aye.  Union-sized mech carriers. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 22 January 2013, 04:50:51
There are also those Dictators that appeared out of nowhere - it may be that the Magistracy is producing those too, somewhere that the ROTS hasn't identified.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 22 January 2013, 15:36:49
I doubt it.  If they were in production, we'd get more tidbits about more of them being noticed; I think the sudden surge mid-Jihad and nothing apparently new since them leans too much in the 'one-time find' explanation.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 22 January 2013, 16:03:42
You mean from the mysterious WoB cache that gave them Phoenixhawks?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 22 January 2013, 16:24:33
I'd prefer an upgrade to making the Lung Wang, for starters.  Much more useful overall than the Leo.  Past that, aye.  Union-sized mech carriers.

I like the Lung Wang's nose bay and carrying capacity, but I can't get over the lack of weapons in its Aft Left/Right quarters. Its a small window, but the lack of weaponry there leaves actual gaps where the Lung Wang can be shot and not respond, since despite the picture, it a spheroid.

You mean from the mysterious WoB cache that gave them Phoenixhawks?

It seems the WoB updated the factory on Canopus to produce them, instead of a whole new factory. Which seems rather random to me, but there you have it.

The nice bit about the Princess Luxury Liner being back in production is that it shows the MoC is capable of handling larger DropShips. I wouldn't mind seeing an updated Dictator or something.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 22 January 2013, 17:56:56
I want to know more about what led up to the production of the Penny.  They're not made on Detroit, but in Magistracy space and are very solid machines.  Even if they're uglier than sin, they're heavy, they have a huge laser compliment and can jump.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 22 January 2013, 22:36:27
Probably pretty much everything you said.

They're not made on Detroit, so companies that have been part of the Magistracy forever can make some money, instead of it all going to Detroit. Its a solid design without going too wild on cost or Tech, so can be produced cheaply and actually handled by the techs in the units it goes to. Its a heavy design, of which the Magistracy had only produced two of before. It jumps, so its able to have a little bit more maneuverability than a standard 4/6 `Mech, and its mostly energy-based weapon system lets it act for an extended period of time without too much of a reliance on ammo supplies.

So if I had to guess, I'd say what lead to the Penthesilea being produced was someone at MM&M saying "Hey, we're losing market share to Detroit. We need something new to sell to the MAF. We succeeded with the Koschei, so lets try a heavy again. Nothing too flashy, we want them buying them as fast as they come off the line. 4/6 is fine, but a little slow, lets add some jump jets. Lets stick our home built PPCs on it, and go from there."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 23 January 2013, 07:55:51
In universe, that's about the size of it.

Out of universe, I wanted to make them not so reliant upon Detroit because they might not have the same level of access in the Dark Ages.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: cavalier1645 on 25 January 2013, 13:52:09
I read through the Field Manual: 3085 and noticed something interesting.  According the the lore, in 3085 after the Jihad the Periphery nations effective strengths is as following:

BattleMech Strength-

Magistracy of Canopus:        16 regiments
Taurian Concordat:                6 regiments, 2 battalions
Marian Hegemony:                 6 legions, 1 cohort (approximately 8 regiments)
Calderon Protectorate:          5 regiments
Filtvelt Coalition:                    3 regiments, 1 battalion
Fronc Reaches:                      3 regiments

Considering how the Magistracy recovered their industry with very little issue and rebuilt their mildly damaged facilities on Canopus and Detroit, the Magistracy is by FAR the strongest force in the Periphery (except if you count the Ravens Alliance).  The closest two powers would be the Hegemony which are about to lose an entire legion since the Fourth Legion is pretty much siding with the Lothian League rebels, and the TDF is in shambles after war with the Federated Suns.

The biggest caveats?  Well, several regiments need updated equipment and are better suited to fighting pirates...but the biggest hurdle?  The Magistracy isn't an empire builder!  That's why I love the Magistracy so much!  Even with Capellan allies the Magistracy and its people doesn't seem as interested in expansion like its neighbors (with the exception of the failed invasion of Capellan space with Andurian).

It'll be interesting to see how they write the Magistracy in the upcoming decades.  They're the biggest and most powerful state in the Periphery and allied with a Successor State (even if it is the Capellans).  They're lacking in serious rivals, and their largest concern is probably updating their units' equipment and not getting pulled into any wars the Chancellor starts.

Just thought I'd share  O:-)

Ya it seems Magistracy is the dominate state in the periphery. The TC is practically no more and only Marian Hegemony is the only real other growing power in the periphery and there too smart to tangle with the Magistracy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 25 January 2013, 16:29:05
Well, despite the Marian's aggressiveness, they've become overextended, they've lost valuable military assets, and they lack a lot of the heavier industry needed to produce the high quality Mechs they were used to getting pre-Jihad.  I highly doubt there'd be an armed confrontation between the two realms, but history has shown that the Magistrix has played a proxy-war against the Caesar and will no doubt help the Lothian League and Niops in political and material support.

Besides, once the League reforms, my guess is they won't be too happy about the Hegemony's aggressive expansionary policies against former members.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 25 January 2013, 16:43:05
In the post Jihad, what sort of committments does Canopus have towards the Capellans? From what I've seen in recent publications, it seems that the Canopians actually had their army on their soil with none found in the Capellan Confederation.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 January 2013, 17:03:40
Surprisingly, it doesn't seem like they have any. Maybe after the Capellan attack on the RAF failed in 3081, the Magistracy forces pulled back (I could swear there's something about MAF forces on the Capellan/Republic border at some point, maybe 3085?). On the other hand, the Field Report Periphery seems to have them all back in the Magistracy as well. So maybe they pulled back even before GOLDEN FORTRESS.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 26 January 2013, 00:12:49
If I had to guess, I would think that Canopian forces would continue to serve the purpose they served during the Trinity Alliance: mainly to garrison territories reclaimed by the Capellans which allowed the Capellans to devote more soldiers to the frontline.  Sun-Tzu Liao and Naomi Centrella are married which maintains the political alliance, but the Canopians benefit primarily from access to Capellan goods and technologies brought on by the Xin-Sheng movement.

I'm not sure if the Canopians actually fight alongside the Capellans during Operation Golden Forces since it would mean also declaring war on the Republic of the Sphere and cause a great loss of face amongst the other Great Powers.  Naomi is too cagey for that, so my guess is her forces act as garrison forces for Capellan space while the CCAF is away fighting the Republic.  Of course, newer maps of the Magistracy show precisely where which units are stationed (and they're all in Magistracy space), so they might actually decide not to get involved.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 26 January 2013, 00:58:24
My guess is that they likely did not contribute much.  The Republic seems nervous about the MoC's capacities, going by the fluff in TRO3085 and Prototypes.  It could be that they just don't know enough about how the MAF armed itself so suddenly.  Could be that they have not yet contributed and the Republic is worried about the wildcard factor.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 January 2013, 15:50:13
The MAF didn't really arm itself so suddenly though. They've been slowly building up from around the 4th Succession War, just like everyone else. From about 7 regiments in 3025 to 16 in 3085. And when they built a unit quickly they usually took it partially from another source (Mercs usually).

I think the Republic is worried about the Magistracy because they're tied to one of their opponents (Capellans) and because of the lack of intelligence assets in the area. The Republic knows the Magistracy has secrets that the Republic can't explain, so they worry. If the Magistracy can pull out a modified Vengeance-class DropShip from someplace, what's to stop them from showing up with something worse?

For the Republic right now, I'd expect the map of the Magistracy to have "Here be Dragons (And Canopians)" scrawled across it. As the Republic moves intelligence assets into the area and they get settled I'd expect the worry to drop a bit.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Republic either has intelligence assets with the IE ships moving through the Canopian area, or has sponsored a few to check up on planets that the Magistracy might be using, but not put on any maps yet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 26 January 2013, 15:52:50
My guess is that they likely did not contribute much.  The Republic seems nervous about the MoC's capacities, going by the fluff in TRO3085 and Prototypes.  It could be that they just don't know enough about how the MAF armed itself so suddenly.  Could be that they have not yet contributed and the Republic is worried about the wildcard factor.

*nods*

Well, IIRC, the Capellans and the Magistracy were the only two powers that didn't send troops and forces to Devlin Stone to fight the Blakists and opted to do so "in their own way."  While the other powers have some stake in playing nice with the new Republic (i.e they lost valuable worlds and soldiers), the Magistracy and the Capellans didn't.  The Capellans weren't a part of the coalition, and I suspect you're right that the Republic views the Magistracy as a wild card.  If they devoted their military to the Capellans, it would make Republican lives much more difficult, but it appears as though the Magistracy for the most part stays out of Operation Golden Fortress.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 26 January 2013, 18:34:38
*nods*

Well, IIRC, the Capellans and the Magistracy were the only two powers that didn't send troops and forces to Devlin Stone to fight the Blakists and opted to do so "in their own way."  While the other powers have some stake in playing nice with the new Republic (i.e they lost valuable worlds and soldiers), the Magistracy and the Capellans didn't.  The Capellans weren't a part of the coalition, and I suspect you're right that the Republic views the Magistracy as a wild card.  If they devoted their military to the Capellans, it would make Republican lives much more difficult, but it appears as though the Magistracy for the most part stays out of Operation Golden Fortress.

All true. Frankly, the impression I'm getting is that the Canopians are playing a deep game - knowing something others don't and keeping it hidden. Also the Jihad seems to have scarred them in the sense that they are cautious. We also know little of MIM activities so maybe, just maybe, they are up to something but its hidden from the Republic's eyes (and ours of course... :()

BTW what happened to Caesar's Cohort, the merc unit during the Jihad? They disappeared completely...they were one of my favourite merc units...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 January 2013, 19:31:43
Ya it seems Magistracy is the dominate state in the periphery. The TC is practically no more and only Marian Hegemony is the only real other growing power in the periphery and there too smart to tangle with the Magistracy.

 Well, if you read FR:p and OR:P, the Taurians are badly wounded, and their industry is smaller, but it got a tech upgraded. Right now, the thing that limit the most the Taurians in politics, not logistics.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 January 2013, 19:41:24
All true. Frankly, the impression I'm getting is that the Canopians are playing a deep game - knowing something others don't and keeping it hidden. Also the Jihad seems to have scarred them in the sense that they are cautious. We also know little of MIM activities so maybe, just maybe, they are up to something but its hidden from the Republic's eyes (and ours of course... :()

Knowing something? Maybe. There is that one image that shows the Wolverine's path heading towards the Magistracy and then out in a rimward direction. But I hope not :)

Quote
BTW what happened to Caesar's Cohort, the merc unit during the Jihad? They disappeared completely...they were one of my favourite merc units...

Last I saw was in Masters and Minions where they're talked about fighting on Lockton with the remains of the 2nd and 3rd Light Horse and repulsing the Blakist attack there (M&M p. 179). Of course, neither the 2nd nor the 3rd's writeup mentions this fighting in FM3085, so its possible that the M&M writeup was false, or that the writers didn't have space to add it in. They don't show up in the FM3085 merc roster, but that's just "Notable" mercs, so they might just not have been listed. Or maybe they got folded up into the Light Horse units during the Jihad.

Hmm. Interesting, Griffin's Pride is listed as being on an unaligned world, instead of in the Magistracy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 26 January 2013, 20:14:37
All true. Frankly, the impression I'm getting is that the Canopians are playing a deep game - knowing something others don't and keeping it hidden. Also the Jihad seems to have scarred them in the sense that they are cautious. We also know little of MIM activities so maybe, just maybe, they are up to something but its hidden from the Republic's eyes (and ours of course... :()

Well, all we know is what the Field Report for 3085 tells us (which is written from the perspective of the RotS).  The Canopians did lose the headquarters to the MIM and its been rebuilt elsewhere that still eludes the Republic.  Even previous to the Jihad, the Blakist reports indicated that the Magistracy was in a dangerous (to them) position because they had skilled diplomats, an experienced military leader (Hadji Doru), and the MIM with the Ebon Magistrate. 

Even if they AREN'T up to anything, there's plenty to speculate about.  The biggest strength of the Magistracy are their diplomats, and as arrogant as Naomi can be, she's also an extremely adept stateswoman.  I'm also sure that whatever the truth is, the MIM is going to make seem like the Magistracy is far ahead of whatever they actually are.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 31 January 2013, 15:33:16
TR Vehicle Annex had some new and old stuff for the Magistracy. The Magistracy still has the Whitestreak Jetski and the Motorboat, as well as the Scavenger/Vampyr SalvageMech. The MIM version of the Motorboat is confirmed, and the Magistracy got a MilitiaMech version of the Scavenger (Though its apparently poorly armed and armored, so they don't produce many).

Perhaps the most interesting bit is that there's a writeup talking about how Whitestreak Inc. is backed by the MIM.

Now, I don't know if that means that the MIM set up Whitestreak as a front company, or if its just talking about the MIM purchasing their version of the Whitestreak (or kicking in some extra funding to make sure the company producing their motorboat is still around during financial difficulties), but its a nice little tie in that could be fun.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 31 January 2013, 15:56:00
MIM is awesome, right?  SAFE may have had XTC spacesuit troopers with gyroslug rifles on their airless moon base.  But, MIM has cyber catgirls, auto rifle carrying helicopter chefs and James Bond watercraft.

I'm really liking how the direction the MAF is going for new military equipment.  It seems they are embracing their position rather well.  It appears they are going in the direction of spec ops (MIM) and a flexible, reliable infantry doctrine, both conventional and powered.  This, backed by solid conventional assets, dependable Pennys and the new infusion of retrotech/industrials.  Very Periphery and interesting.

Next up, cyber ninja catgirls on dragons.  Keep your eyes peeled.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 31 January 2013, 16:21:42
autorifle carrying helicopter chefs?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 31 January 2013, 18:00:16
Well, the Andurians have the dragons...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 31 January 2013, 21:13:06
autorifle carrying helicopter chefs?

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/09/Infan48.png)

Even has the riding boots for the imported Branths.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Death by Zeus on 31 January 2013, 23:30:57
But wait, where's her food processor?  :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 31 January 2013, 23:32:20
But wait, where's her food processor?  :D

Now e know why the Ebony Assault Rifle weighs so much. O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Death by Zeus on 31 January 2013, 23:34:53
Doh, silly me.  It's in the buttstock!   ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 01 February 2013, 00:34:06
The auto rifle is the food processor.  Depending on your definition of food, of course.


The collar is too high, but the fold over style of the jacket made me think of a chef's jacket.  It's actually one of my favorite 3085 uniforms.  I was excited to see what they were, read the Raventhir's Iron Hand part, more excitement...  PBIs.  Auto rifle tottin', MG schleppin' PBIs.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 01 February 2013, 03:07:45
Now e know why the Ebony Assault Rifle weighs so much. O0

And amusingly, no one, including Magistracy PCs, can get one starting off in ATOW :)

Though I *almost* think that a Blazer is just a better choice all around. Lighter, cheaper, with the same damage as the High-Energy setting, and its extreme range is only 20 meters shorter than the Extended-range setting. Its only real advantage is that its "fluffy" for the MoC.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Death by Zeus on 01 February 2013, 04:33:04
AND, it doesn't have a food processor in it!  ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 02 February 2013, 11:35:47
I like the Lung Wang's nose bay and carrying capacity, but I can't get over the lack of weapons in its Aft Left/Right quarters. Its a small window, but the lack of weaponry there leaves actual gaps where the Lung Wang can be shot and not respond, since despite the picture, it a spheroid.

Not a bug, its a feature. #P I figure it means the ASFs are just forced to stick a bit closer to it, esp as the Lung Wang can do a decent job of punching its own way in.  Just needs the ASFs watching its six.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 02 February 2013, 11:38:51
And amusingly, no one, including Magistracy PCs, can get one starting off in ATOW :)

Though I *almost* think that a Blazer is just a better choice all around. Lighter, cheaper, with the same damage as the High-Energy setting, and its extreme range is only 20 meters shorter than the Extended-range setting. Its only real advantage is that its "fluffy" for the MoC.

Well, there we go then.  Is the Ebony just the OICW of the BT verse? :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 02 February 2013, 21:59:17
Well, I was never turned on to the Ebony Assault Rifle primarily because it burned through so much power.  I suppose I lean more towards sniper rifles for the same effect, personally.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 03 February 2013, 08:23:07
Yeah, its really more of a "Oh cool, the Magistracy is making an advanced laser rifle!" and being happy to see that there's a Magistracy affiliated weapon on the books, than it is a really great weapon.

Hopefully we'll see more advances :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 09 February 2013, 12:44:06
Well the way it looks these days...

With a prototype Vengeance assault dropship, Dictators and several mech designs, the Canopians are showing one major element of superiority over other periphery states - R&D. They do not only have the ability to produce stuff but they actually can design stuff even of the most complicated nature (like assault dropships). Even the TC can only produce only a few mech designs and patrol craft. I would just like to see if they are able to build jumpships as well someday...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 February 2013, 00:15:37
With a prototype Vengeance assault dropship, Dictators and several mech designs, the Canopians are showing one major element of superiority over other periphery states - R&D. They do not only have the ability to produce stuff but they actually can design stuff even of the most complicated nature (like assault dropships). Even the TC can only produce only a few mech designs and patrol craft. I would just like to see if they are able to build jumpships as well someday...

Even with the `Mech designs you had to wonder how much of an influence the Capellans had. We know the Eyleuka had Capellan help, but we don't really know much about the others. The Penthesilea may be the only design that was done strictly in-house by the Magistracy (or atleast its one of the few with that feel).

The Dictators aren't really a sign of R&D either. There's no sign that they've been upgraded beyond what they originally were. Heck, since we don't even know where they came from, for all we know they simply discovered a cache somewhere.

The same with the Vengeance-DC. For all we know somewhere in deep space the Ebon Magistrate managed to capture it from the WoB.

Not to put the MoC down of course :) but most of it is circumstantial. On the other hand, we do know that they produced the Ebon Magistrate, and the Ebony Assault Rifle (despite my reservations of the weapon) shows that the Magistracy is doing SOME R&D on their own. The same with the Majesty Metals and Mining weapons. So they're doing some things, I'm just not sure R&D can take credit for all them.

Honestly, the Vengeance-DC puzzles me as to why the Magistracy couldn't produce it on their own. Its smaller than the Princess-class Luxury Liner, so it isn't a matter of the size. Maybe infrastructure, but I can't help thinking they could add on to the Princess line so they didn't have to build the complete infrastructure from scratch.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 February 2013, 02:06:46
You know, I've been doing some thinking. I'm beginning to wonder if there was a hidden SLDF fleet base somewhere out in the Canopian region (and maybe in the Taurian Region, but they can discuss that in their own thread :) ). Not necessarily something as big as Gabriel, bu something that would allow the SLDF to repair and refit ships in case of major troubles.

The Ninth Fleet is stationed at Canopus. Figure around 53 ships. Who knows how many Garrison Fleet ships are in Canopian space as well.  The 17th Fleet moves between the Magistracy and the Hegemony, while the 7th and 18th are stationed along the border of the FWL and Magistracy.

3 Fleets in the area, 1 that shows up from time to time.

And yet the SLDF base at Canopus is considered small (though it does have drydocks for maintenance and minor repairs).  True, the 7th Fleet has its own bays at Hindmarsh, but doesn't it seem like there should be something more substantial, or atleast in a less precarious place if things do go wrong?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 10 February 2013, 10:14:14
My guess about the Vengence and Dictators is that there was a WOB shipyard somewhere and the MOC found it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 10 February 2013, 10:24:34
Unfortunately, the Vengeance-DC (Danai Centrella) is not produced in Canopian space. The Magistracy does not possess shipyards capable of this feat.

This new class is build in the Confederation and the output is shared between both nations.

A bit unnerving, that the Canopian Navy relies 100% on Capellan manufactures.  :-\
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 February 2013, 10:51:59
My guess about the Vengence and Dictators is that there was a WOB shipyard somewhere and the MOC found it.

Its as good as one as any. Or a RWR yard that the WoB found and refurbished, which then the MoC found while hunting Blakists. A former RWR one would explain why its not mentioned in FM:SLDF.

Unfortunately, the Vengeance-DC (Danai Centrella) is not produced in Canopian space. The Magistracy does not possess shipyards capable of this feat.

This new class is build in the Confederation and the output is shared between both nations.

A bit unnerving, that the Canopian Navy relies 100% on Capellan manufactures.  :-\

Well, not totally 100% reliant. They've still got their uh. Leopard line. And they can produce Princess-Class Liners! Though we're not necessarily saying they can produce the Vengeance. But if there were a Refurbishment yard instead of a full production line out there, that might explain the Dictators, and if the WoB were using it to refurbish the Vengeance when the MoC captured it, that could explain it as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 13 February 2013, 13:45:29
Its pretty obvious that beyond the Canopian borders, in SL times there must have been some outposts etc. Having said that too many people seem to rely on the fact that WoB had a base in the area. Frankly, my guess would be more in a different direction...

The Canopians have their pleasure circuses all over the Inner sphere and beyond (hehe they even got stuff in the middle of nowhere in the periphery). These provide them with two things (in canon) money and a cover for espionage. Thus it may be that the new Vengeance is a 'byproduct' of such activities.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 13 February 2013, 15:06:26
Now quite sure where you're going with that really, other than they might have stumbled across something somehow.

The writeup in XTRO Periphery suggests that they might have hijacked it from the Blakists, so it isn't that far of a stretch. Though if the Blakists had a base like that out there in the boondocks of the Magistracy, I would've expected the Shadow Division to be based there instead of Aspirogoros.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CanopusIV on 14 February 2013, 20:57:50
Hmm...well, I recall reading that the Dictators fielded by the Magistracy were supposed to be in 'pristine condition' indicating they were stored in some storage facility or they were built recently.  If I had to guess, the main partisan forces were pushed off the most populous Magistracy planets when the Blakists invaded and probably sought refuge in the nearby 'Canopian Ruins.'

Finding a forgotten SLDF base with a number of Dictators seems more plausible than it does a Blakist contingent constructing an elaborate facility in the heart of Magistracy space without them knowing.  While the Blakists did occupy the area, it takes time to build a shipyard and even more time to build a fleet of DropShips.  Even with the Blakists it seems far-fetched in a Periphery state.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 15 February 2013, 06:01:18
Yup, 'Pristine' condition. We know that the Overlord-class DropShip that replaced the Dictator showed up in the 2760s, so maybe a unit had their original Dictators replaced and put into mothballs before the Periphery uprising.

Of course, we're not necessarily arguing that the Blakists built the facility, more like found/activated a facility.

Lets say that it was some sort of storage facility/boneyard. Then it would stand to reason as well that there are some sort of decommissioning/recommissioning facilities as well I'd think. Not a full production line or anything, but enough to pull the Dictators out of mothballs, perform maintenance and repair, and to refit them to put them back into usage.

Now, if there's a minor facility like that, then it might be enough for some Blakist to tinker with refitting a Vengeance as well. Then if the Magistracy captures it, then they have a Vengeance, but no way to actually mass produce it (the yard can only do slow refits) and any data they have on it is more suited for refitting than production. So they take the Vengeance to the Capellans, tell them to pour over it and figure out how to mass produce it.

It sort of fits. A boneyard/refit facility would make sense, rather than a full production line.

Of course, you've got to ask about the timing as well. The Magistracy started to deploy the Dictators around 3070. That's pretty quick after the Jihad started and when they're still dealing with Blakists..is it likely they found a Blakist refit yard that quickly? Why would the Blakists be refitting the Dictators back to Star League standards (actually, more like Reunification War standards).  If it were a Magistracy project all along, that might make more sense.

Lets say the Canopians stumble across an old, Star League era boneyard with minor refit/repair facilities, sometime in the 3060's. They find Dictators there, left over from the Star League (the League didn't take them when they pulled out because it would've taken too long to recommission them, time they didn't have once Amaris struck Terra, and they didn't want to hang around in potentially dangerous space).

They can always use DropShips, so they refurbish the facility, and start to recommission the Dictators. They don't have lots and lots of experience designing/building new DropShips, so they figure they'll put them back to their original configuration. No need to design anything new, no need to make Part D fit into the tabs for Part A. Keep it Simple.

Then at some point, maybe they start to run out of Dictators to bring back into service. So someone says "Lets push the boundary" and they start to slowly reconfigure a single Vengeance with advanced technology, inside and out.

It could work. The question is the details :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 15 February 2013, 12:06:15
I say they're all found from McEvedy's Folly, where the Wolverines mothballed all the stuff they couldn't take into ComStar. :P
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 15 February 2013, 13:31:21
Heh. Well, while that's probably a tongue-in-cheek comment, the fluff on the Dictators has them being destroyed during the Amaris Crisis and abandoned for the Overlord for the Exodus, so the Wolverines probably didn't have too many of them :)

Though speaking of McEvedy's Folly, hopefully the Magistracy is smart enough to keep an eye on, or in the various IE exploration groups moving through Canopian and former Canopian space. I get the feeling the Magistracy might need to make sure they don't stumble across a few things.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 24 February 2013, 00:07:35
So an interesting little tidbit that came out of one of the Taurian threads...

The Trznadel Cluster that the Canopians discovered sometime during the Star League era has the number 60 next to it. Now, I always assumed that was the number of stars, but apparently that's the number of inhabited systems.

I assume they're rather small habitations (the only reference to them I've found has been in Major Periphery States) where they're called "mining enclaves), but that's still a much larger set of resources than I previously thought.

Not much help for the mysteries of the Canopians, but I thought it was interesting.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 06 March 2013, 07:26:43
Well there is also an assumption that there may be more systems that are only marginally inhabited with like mining colonies, stop over posts or somesuch. What we see on the map are the larger, more important planets with millions or billions of inhabitants.

However, its pretty interesting to have so many inhabited planets in dense clusters - actually makes running a nation or economy much more efficient. Whatever you need is within a jump  or so.

BTW would that mean that Pirates Haven had 50 planets full of pirates?  :o
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 06 March 2013, 09:30:35
Indeed.  A stronghold of the peg leg industry.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Death by Zeus on 06 March 2013, 18:15:42
  :D AYE, we turn some of the finest peg legs in the Sphere, and carve The most elaborate ones!  :D ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 06 March 2013, 23:57:11
  :D AYE, we turn some of the finest peg legs in the Sphere, and carve The most elaborate ones!  :D ;D
I want a Frankenmech BCN-3R with a tree for a left leg!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 25 March 2013, 14:25:12
In the IE book, we know that there are pleasure circuses or shall we say dubious Canopian businesses even in the deep periphery. But do we actually know how far these stretch both within and without the IS?

Given that they are used as covers for MIM operations, why would the Canopians be spying all over the place? And how do they get info back to Canopus in good time to be useful?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 25 March 2013, 16:56:23
In the IE book, we know that there are pleasure circuses or shall we say dubious Canopian businesses even in the deep periphery. But do we actually know how far these stretch both within and without the IS?

Which bit in particular are you talking about from IE?

Quote
Given that they are used as covers for MIM operations, why would the Canopians be spying all over the place? And how do they get info back to Canopus in good time to be useful?

Well, they CAN be used as cover for MIM operations. It doesn't mean that all of them are. It could simply be that those business are exactly that, businesses making money (or attempting to).

Now, if we did assume that the MIM has people everywhere, its because they want to know what's going on. Either because they're worried about something or because they just want to keep tabs on the area (just like everyone else).

As for communicating in a timely manner, I doubt the information they're pulling in is information that needs to be known right away. They're not looking for signs that Canopus is about to be invaded, and they must warn the Magistracy right away, they're looking for things like new colonies, or expanding colonies, or new businesses. Information that could be helpful down the line, but not necessarily helpful right away. Saying that I'm sure they've got orders to check in every once in a while, or have contacts that will take a message to point B, which forwards it on to point C, which forwards it to Point D.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Offworlder on 28 March 2013, 13:46:40
Look at the entry of Rest Stop (pg71). There's a space brothel (the Spinward Showgirl) in the middle of nowhere. If that is not an undercover operation, I don't know what is.  ::)

However, Maelwys, you may have hit the nail on the head in the sense that probably the Canopian Circuses undercover operations would be more targeted towards possibly industrial espionage or general dispositions of house forces.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 March 2013, 23:33:31
Look at the entry of Rest Stop (pg71). There's a space brothel (the Spinward Showgirl) in the middle of nowhere. If that is not an undercover operation, I don't know what is.  ::)

Ah. Well, there's nothing there (unless I missed it) to indicate that the Spinward Showgirl is a Canopian Pleasure Circus. That's why I missed it the first time. It could be Canopian, or it could just be some random entrepreneur. Just because its related to sex, doesn't necessarily mean its Canopian :)

Quote
However, Maelwys, you may have hit the nail on the head in the sense that probably the Canopian Circuses undercover operations would be more targeted towards possibly industrial espionage or general dispositions of house forces.

Well, I'd think that location would determine more for what they're going after. Lets say the Spinward Showgirl did have a MIM agent onboard. Their goals for data gathering would be to keep an eye on whatever IE discovered, and send back news whenever mail could be arranged. If there was a MIM agent stationed in the remnants of the FWL, then they might be looking for troop movements, leaves suddenly being canceled, etc. Each mission/objective could conceivably be different. Its just worth noting that a spy stationed out in the middle of nowhere isn't going to be able to communicate quickly or often, and so their data is going to be geared towards information that lasts, or isn't as actionable.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Death by Zeus on 29 March 2013, 02:30:48
Ah. Well, there's nothing there (unless I missed it) to indicate that the Spinward Showgirl is a Canopian Pleasure Circus. That's why I missed it the first time. It could be Canopian, or it could just be some random entrepreneur. Just because its related to sex, doesn't necessarily mean its Canopian :).
  ^-^ Yes it does.......  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 29 March 2013, 10:45:29
Just because its related to sex, doesn't necessarily mean its Canopian :)

The inverse is true as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2013, 16:11:38
Not a whole lot for the Magistracy so far out of 3145. I think they get mentioned off hand once in the new TRO, so I'd expect any Magistracy units to show up wherever the Capellan units show up. The Era Report wasn't that surprising. Not too much Magistracy action, beyond supporting the Capellans during their invasions. Some conflict, but mostly as replacements for garrisons while the Cappies go off to fight.

A new unit, the Canopian Lancers is mentioned (a sister unit to the Tau Ceti Lancers).

The Magistracy continues to have their own RATs (mostly). The `Mech RAT isn't too surprising, a few 3039 designs, and then a mixture of everything Cappellan or Canopian from 3050 onwards (From a CTF-3LL Cataphract to the PLG-5Z Pillager).

The vehicle RATs seem to be more of the usual. Nothing too shocking , some 3039 designs, some advanced designs, but nothing that really screams "wow!" (Pos and Pikes abound).

The Magistracy gets to roll on the Capellan's Battle Armor RAT, and not the Periphery General RAT. This means we miss out on things like the Marauder, Spectre (yes, both of those are BA, and not `Mechs) and the Ravager. On the plus side, we have access to something called the Amazon (We'll see in a future TRO) and a Shen Long (again, something we'll see) as well as the usual  Capellan and Magistracy favorites such as the Theseus and Fa Shih and Ying Long.

Aerospace is similar to usual..a mix of older designs and Capellan designs. Even a Royal design or two. And a Clan design or two. DropShips are pretty standard, though the Leopard (PPC) continues to cling to the table, and the top 3 slots are filled with Pocket WarShips (or close to it). If you're going to be transporting a `Mech force however, you may wish to simply pick your DropShips :)

And of course, the RATs don't necessarily mean that's all we get. Just what they felt like putting on there.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 06 April 2013, 17:11:17
I didn't put 2 and 2 together when considering the Ari Humpries/Ilsa Centrella-Laio marriage.  I had forgotten just how old Ilsa was.  Their alliance now seems to make less sense in the terms of dynasty rulership BT has established.  Perhaps Danai will inherit all three realms?  That is a troubling thought.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2013, 17:47:35
I didn't put 2 and 2 together when considering the Ari Humpries/Ilsa Centrella-Laio marriage.  I had forgotten just how old Ilsa was.  Their alliance now seems to make less sense in the terms of dynasty rulership BT has established.  Perhaps Danai will inherit all three realms?  That is a troubling thought.

Alot of the people in the MWDA era are older than expected. Part of it is you have a 12ish year jump from the start of MWDA to 3145, but in some cases, the people are just older than they come across. Danai Centrella-Liao when she first shows up is in mid to late 20s, commanding a Battalion, when the majority of main characters in the Blood of Kerensky era were in their early 20's commanding a Battalion (or more). Its sort of strange. I know that people (theoretically, as long as they don't get an entire DC invasion force dropped on their head) in the BT universe live longer than people today, but it seems rather strange to think of alot of the rulers should be nearing the end of their rule, rather than the younger dynamic we had in the 3050s and 60s.

Perhaps the marriage is just to secure the border and to keep the FWL from reforming completely, rather than providing a dynastic heritage?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 April 2013, 18:13:56
I'm disturbed by reports of Danai getting brutal. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: GreekFire on 06 April 2013, 18:19:21
Liao blood will do that to you.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2013, 19:10:20
I'm disturbed by reports of Danai getting brutal.

Liao blood will do that to you.

From what I understand, the only place where Danai and her troops got brutal was on New Hessen. They showed no signs of being that way before New Hessen, nor that way after New Hessen. More likely than not its because it was on New Hessen where Danai was raped by Caleb.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Scrollreader on 08 April 2013, 10:27:02
So who else is excited about our new Lancers?  Seems just the thing for pirate hunting and raiding, and they likely have combat experience and new tech from fighting against the RAF.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 08 April 2013, 10:38:34
For some reason i'm not as excited as I think I should be.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 April 2013, 04:00:00
For some reason i'm not as excited as I think I should be.

Wondering where and when the other shoe is going to drop?

Looking at the map and wondering why the Magistracy lost the planets that it did? And if the units that are usually based on those planets went with them?

Realizing in the back of your mind that Danai seems to be the only heir to both the CapCon AND the Magistracy?

Huh. I'm not sure on the dates (and I'm not going to grab the books to look them up), but isn't it surprising that Danai is STILL just a Battalion commander? (Okay, I looked it up. She's been a Battalion commander since atleast 35-36, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened before that). Maybe I'm just a little off because of the SuperFriends going from Battalion Command to Generals in a single book, but..really? Still?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Youngblood on 09 April 2013, 11:04:26
Wondering where and when the other shoe is going to drop?

Looking at the map and wondering why the Magistracy lost the planets that it did? And if the units that are usually based on those planets went with them?

Realizing in the back of your mind that Danai seems to be the only heir to both the CapCon AND the Magistracy?

Huh. I'm not sure on the dates (and I'm not going to grab the books to look them up), but isn't it surprising that Danai is STILL just a Battalion commander? (Okay, I looked it up. She's been a Battalion commander since atleast 35-36, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened before that). Maybe I'm just a little off because of the SuperFriends going from Battalion Command to Generals in a single book, but..really? Still?

What makes you think she'd do well as a bigger-picture player?  She doesn't seem to be the type.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 April 2013, 11:52:09
What makes you think she'd do well as a bigger-picture player?  She doesn't seem to be the type.

I suppose that's possible, though she does come across as rather competent in the various novels that cover that aspect of her life, including handling multi-planet conflicts (such as when she sent her fighters/raiders off to harass other planets to keep reinforcements from reaching another planet).

I dunno. Just seems sort of weird. Heir to both thrones, in the middle of the conflict, but not competent enough to advance? You'd think they'd move her sideways or something (XO or on general staff someplace to learn more about the CCAF for her future as the Chancellor). 10 years later and in the exact same place seemed kind of odd.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Scrollreader on 09 April 2013, 11:59:05
IIRC, she didn't really have a burning desire to /be/ a big picture person.  She was pretty happy on Solaris, before big brother/dad recalled her to be in the army.  And Daoshen may or may not view her as a rival, and hence not be doing her any favors for that reason.  I think she'd be quite a bit happier as Magestrix than Chancellor, myself.  But things do look ... interesting.  Remember, she might end up mixed up in the Andurien succession too, and her friendship with the FWL heir apparent makes that ... well hell.  Who knows what that all entails and will end up being?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 April 2013, 12:45:53
True, but she also seems to be willing (if not necessarily happy) to go where the Chancellor wants/needs her to go for the good of the Confederation. Considering who she is, considering who she has ties with, considering the side jobs she's had for the Chancellor (negotiating the peace treaty with Jessica Marik...or well, renegotiating it, IIRC), it just seems weird that 10 years later, Danai is still best serving the CapCon as a battalion commander (admittedly, its a prestigious unit).

edit
Not to say I'm not interested in the storyline, and waiting to see where she goes and what she does, it was just something that struck me as sort of odd, but this might be something else that's influenced by the early BT stories where say, Kai Allard Liao went from Leftenant to helping plan multi-regimental attacks, to BFFs with some Jade Falcons to Champion of Solaris to marriage and fatherhood and helping plan the strikeback against the Smoke Jaguars, all in 10ish years.
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 09 April 2013, 14:35:09
Personally, I'm of the opinion that MoC, Andurien and the Confederation will merge into a larger power, thus explaining the 'unfamiliar flag' mentioned in 'Surrender Your Dreams'
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 09 April 2013, 15:20:32
That could mean something else entirely.  It could mean that Kwamashu becomes an independent planet, a "republic" stronghold or part of some new tri-power alliance.  The "Former Duchy of Andurien" location doesn't clear things up, either.  Could mean Kawmasu is abandoned by Andurien or Andurien is no more.

Or the ghost of Kerensky rides in with Clinton's Cutthtroats, the Manei Domini and the Jarnefolk to save the day.  Time will tell. 

But, I don't know if a new mega realm will exist.  The Cappies are already reaching the heights of what I would call acceptible power limits.  A huge nation encompassing Andurien, Canopus and Sian would be like a 2nd rate FedCom.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Blancmanche on 11 April 2013, 01:29:55
But, I don't know if a new mega realm will exist.  The Cappies are already reaching the heights of what I would call acceptible power limits.  A huge nation encompassing Andurien, Canopus and Sian would be like a 2nd rate FedCom.

Acceptable power limits? 2nd Rate FedCom? That sounds huge! And exciting! What happens then?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 11 April 2013, 08:31:51
The bottom falls out and we start a "Canopus Ascendent" thread talking about how TPTB hate us but will eventually restore MoC to it's god given place at the head of the human race.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 11 April 2013, 12:52:42
So who else is excited about our new Lancers?  Seems just the thing for pirate hunting and raiding, and they likely have combat experience and new tech from fighting against the RAF.

I can't find a reference to their color scheme. Do we have any idea what it is?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 April 2013, 16:24:56
With Danai's ascention to the Celestial throne, she will attempt to reform Capellan government and society.  While many Cappies will be drawn to the Canopian cultural changes that sweep the combined realm, hardliners will resist in a kind of Black Dragon society.  The Canopian Confederation will be hampered from expansion by the uprisings they have to put down.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Scrollreader on 11 April 2013, 18:07:28
I can't find a reference to their color scheme. Do we have any idea what it is?

I don't think we have color schemes for any of the units mentioned in the ER yet.  (but we have a unit logo)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 11 April 2013, 18:14:21
I don't think we have color schemes for any of the units mentioned in the ER yet.  (but we have a unit logo)

I believe you are correct; the only mention I can find regarding a unit color scheme is the entry for the Tau Ceti Lancers which simply says that they have retained the colors of the Rangers.

hopefully either FM3145 or CSO will provide unit colors in the near future.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 18 May 2013, 05:47:18
So, you all saw the new shiny toys the MAF got?  [drool]

I dare to say, the Magistracy now is the coolest kid in the Periphery block.  8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 May 2013, 07:16:10
I dare to say, the Magistracy now is the coolest kid in the Periphery block.  8)
This has always been true. :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 18 May 2013, 12:10:51
So, you all saw the new shiny toys the MAF got?  [drool]

I dare to say, the Magistracy now is the coolest kid in the Periphery block.  8)

I love how practical the MoC designs are; the Amazon is a no frills trooper BA and the Gun (there's a production line on Lockton) can transport it and still use all of its weapons in every configuration. The Agrotera looks like it could be all kinds of nasty as a mobile sniper or city fighter; it's my pick to lead Lancer units. Also, the Calliope can do a fine job holding the line against conventional forces while being serviceable against 'Mechs.

I may not play MoC but I sure am happy to see them get some love in this book. Coolest kid indeed  8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 19 May 2013, 08:15:49
I love how practical the MoC designs are; the Amazon is a no frills trooper BA and the Gun (there's a production line on Lockton) can transport it and still use all of its weapons in every configuration.

Yeah, I had the ability to move BA in mind when I designed the Gùn's configurations.

For the record, the ability to fit an HPPC in there wasn't an accident, it was a primary design goal.  I don't really have any justification for it, either.  It just seemed like a fun idea even if it's also an excellent way to get a slow 20 tonner turned into a priority target.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ShockaTime on 19 May 2013, 11:19:50
Yeah, I had the ability to move BA in mind when I designed the Gùn's configurations.

For the record, the ability to fit an HPPC in there wasn't an accident, it was a primary design goal.  I don't really have any justification for it, either.  It just seemed like a fun idea even if it's also an excellent way to get a slow 20 tonner turned into a priority target.

Plus the Gun has one of the best pieces of art in the book.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 19 May 2013, 12:27:31
I'm glad to see the designs spread around the Magistracy, rather than being focused on say Detroit and the design being "Canopian."

Though I do wish in the writeups, "Deployment" and "Battle History" were kept separate. Oh well, guess we'll have to wait for the MUL on some items :)

Interesting that more than one Magistracy built unit has VSPs on it. Not enough to declare a trend, but interesting.

Also interesting is that Detroit MechWorks has moved into the Magistracy proper, along with Ceres Metals.

About the only thing that's off I think is the lack of "Magistracy" weapons on the designs. Why bother with the Ceres Arms PPC on the (potentially sublime) Agrotera when the Magistracy made their own for the Penthesilea?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 20 May 2013, 10:12:10
I'm glad to see the designs spread around the Magistracy, rather than being focused on say Detroit and the design being "Canopian."

I think what is really interesting for me is seeing how in the past the Canopians were buying from, or being gifted mechs by the Capellans.  Now the Canopians are selling their own domestic designs to the Capellans.  I'm sure they did in the past as well, but the trend is increasing.  This looks more like a partnership than the client state arrangement of the past.


My biggest complaint is a bit of a weenie.  The Amazon, while nice, is also somewhat boring.  Royal Foxx was already making the Theseus with a MRR.  The fact that the Amazon can jump and has more armor doesn't make it different enough in my mind.  I would have prefered the MAF build something with different functions before going straight to a perfected 3 jump long ranged BA when they have a 3 move long ranged BA as their first suit.  But, I must say, I enjoy seeing the similarity in design between the Amazon and the "body armor" of the 3085 Assault Commando.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 20 May 2013, 12:27:13
But, I must say, I enjoy seeing the similarity in design between the Amazon and the "body armor" of the 3085 Assault Commando.

I didn't catch that until you mentioned it! Now that I see it that's pretty cool.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 May 2013, 14:12:32
I think what is really interesting for me is seeing how in the past the Canopians were buying from, or being gifted mechs by the Capellans.  Now the Canopians are selling their own domestic designs to the Capellans.  I'm sure they did in the past as well, but the trend is increasing.  This looks more like a partnership than the client state arrangement of the past.

Yeah, nice to see that the selling is going both ways, or atleast noticeably both ways.

Quote
My biggest complaint is a bit of a weenie.  The Amazon, while nice, is also somewhat boring.  Royal Foxx was already making the Theseus with a MRR.  The fact that the Amazon can jump and has more armor doesn't make it different enough in my mind.  I would have prefered the MAF build something with different functions before going straight to a perfected 3 jump long ranged BA when they have a 3 move long ranged BA as their first suit.  But, I must say, I enjoy seeing the similarity in design between the Amazon and the "body armor" of the 3085 Assault Commando.

I can understand the issue with the Amazon (And its not like my complaints were much past the weenie stage!). When I first saw it I was kind of "meh." I mean, I realize the 10 points of armor is a game changer, but on first glance its like "Welcome to 3058?" I agree completely with the fluff that its evolutionary, and not revolutionary. Maybe it came about because Royal Foxx Infantry Systems needed to learn how to work on Jump Jets.

On the other hand, its nice to see another Magistracy-specific suit (even if it functions alot like the IS Standard in most cases). My big fear is that in a year all IS Standard suits and Medium faction-specific suits like the Cavalier will be converted over to this standard :)

That's a great catch about the body armor of the 3085 Assault Commando. It isn't a direct copy, but you can definitely see similar elements. That's pretty cool. (Now if we could just get a new Magistracy Infantry kit).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 20 May 2013, 14:25:01


<snip> (Now if we could just get a new Magistracy Infantry kit).
Why, the MoC kit is one of the best out there. Game stats don't lie.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 20 May 2013, 14:33:47
In BT?  Isn't it just a 0 armor mod?  Wobbie or Lyran are the best, by Inner Sphere standards, for sure.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Stormcrow on 20 May 2013, 14:37:59
I'm thinking in RPG terms.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 20 May 2013, 14:43:06
Oh, another one of those situations in which something is bad in one system and great in another.  It makes sense for MAF infantry kits to be good, but I wasn't expecting it to outdo the sophisticated sensor array and protection of the Lyran kit.  I may have to look more closely at those stats.  Now if only the Assault Commando had an additional point of armor divisor to go along with that bulky armor.

Hmmm, that's good news for the ADF.  When ER3085 came out it sounded like a bad thing that they were buying BA and infantry kits from the MoC.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 May 2013, 15:33:59
Why, the MoC kit is one of the best out there. Game stats don't lie.

...

I assume this is missing a sarcasm tag? :) In BT, its a single point Divisor, which is the standard "Don't suck" armor.

In the RPG...well, parts of it are good. Parts are bad. Sometimes at the same time.

The helmet is nice and heavy and protective (from most forms of attacks), but also gives one of the worst perception modifiers in the RPG. The Marian helmet provides the same protection, adds in Nightvision on top of the Rangefinders and military comm that the Magistracy kit has, but only costs 50 c-bills more, and only has a -1 to perception.

The Gloves and Boots are pretty standard. Nothing special or awful about them. Not the greatest, but standard.

The main armor bit (which coincidentally is used as the "generic" armor when not using hit locations in the RPG) is both good and bad. Good in that it provides a 5 points of ballistic armor. Not the best, but its going to provide protection on par with what everyone else has (some armor kits go up to 6). Its rating against explosions is similarly average. Its Melee and Energy armor values however are dismal. It won't even absorb any of the damage from a simple knife. (Okay, I'll admit that the way the RPG works, that alot of the "Better" armors out there won't do much against laser weapons, but the armor values are still low on the Magistracy armor).

Not only is the main armor worthless against anything other than ballistic or explosive damage, but it also only covers the torso. Arms and Legs are uncovered completely.

So we've got an infantry kit that hasn't really changed since the end of the Reunification War, IIRC. It probably worked well during the Succession Wars when combat was limited in scale and against mostly lowtech pirates who used ballistic weaponry, but times have changed somewhat.

As an aside, yes I know, the way the rules work, the Magistracy's armor is just as effective against certain weapons as more advanced armors with their higher ratings are, since it doesn't matter how much a weapon's AP beats the armor value, it just has to match or beat it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 20 May 2013, 16:47:22
Why, the MoC kit is one of the best out there. Game stats don't lie.
Damn straight I am.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 22 May 2013, 08:38:35
So do people think the Magistracy has started to play around with the augmented lances that the CapCon has been testing out over the years, or are they more likely to stick around with the tried and tested 4 units to a lance, 3 lances to a company? It would also require them to integrate their forces like we haven't really seen them do before.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 22 May 2013, 16:35:10
Describe what you mean by augmented lance.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 May 2013, 03:13:11
All the way back to Field Manual CapCon, the Capellans have been playing around with things called Augmented Lances, which are basically just reinforced Lances, but instead of them being homogeneous (such as 6 vehicles, or 6 `Mechs), they're a mixed lance with 2 different types of units.

So you have a an Augmented `Mech lance, which is 4 `Mechs and 2 vehicles, or 4 `Mechs and 2 BA Squads. Augmented Armor lances are 4 vehicles and either 2 `Mechs or 4 BA squads.

Companies however are only 2 lances, so you still only have 12 units (16 in the case of 2 Vehicle/BA Augmented lances) in the company, rather than the 18 units if you retained the 3 lances per Company. FM:3085 seemed to indicate that the Capellans were still using the formations post Jihad.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 23 May 2013, 16:04:00
I suspect that many powers have been moving toward such a combined-arms approach.  Given the degree of Capellan influence on Majestracy military training, it is very likely that several regiments have adopted the approach.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 May 2013, 16:39:52
We'll see hopefully. I'm interested in how the Magistracy has taken to deploying its new Fighters and BA. I bet alot has changed from the FM:Periphery.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Picard Day on 12 September 2013, 04:02:39
Warning!  Field Manual 3145 spoilers ahead!

So, with Field Manual 3145 out, we finally have an idea of just what the hell the Magistracy has been up to for the past 50 years.  We finally know what went down with Detroit (It was voluntarily given to the CapCon as an ascension gift to Daoshen; the split production agreement remains in place.  Basically getting those annoying Fronc'ers to deal with Cappies instead of us; have fun with that guys!.  From the industrial standpoint the Magistracy has gone from a periphery backwater to a major economic power.

Probably the most disappointing element of the Field Manual is that there is actually very little detail on any doctrinal changes in the MAF; we know how it has expanded (new brigade, new independent command and some expansion plus one regimental command completely destroyed) but not really much at all about how these things are used.  This seems to be par for the course for most of the book however.  Though judging by the FM roster, it does look like the increased focus on Aerospace has been quite effective for the Magistracy and has had noticeable results.

Most interesting is the expansion of industry in the Magistracy - Two new MMM facilities (in addition to the new DMW facility on Krimari and Ceres Metal facility on Lockton we found out about in TRO 3145),  1 of which is now on a planet outside of the Magistracy (independent) and has only limited military production.  In addition both the Canopus and Dunianshire facilities have DOUBLED output, which is damn impressive.  There is no news of any expansion of Bristol SalvageWorks, Bermuda Combat Systems or Foxx Infantry Systems or Novis-ATH, though we know that Foxx Infantry systems at least has been producing Amazon BA for quite awhile.  Considering this is the Dark Ages I imagine Bristol SalvageWorks probably saw a lot of production, seeing as IndustrialMechs are very popular in this era, though nothing is mentioned regarding this.

Of even greater interest is the expansion of Alliance Aerospace Group; Though there is no mention of any additions or upgrades to their original facility on Marantha the AAG has posted "record production rates"; we also see that they have restored damaged orbital yards around Canopus IV for the production of Zero-G materials (i'm assuming Endo-Steel and the like) as well as dropships; no mention of what class (I'm hoping for some local PWS production) but that is a pretty major development, making Dunianshire no longer the sole local source of Droppers for the Canopians.  Perhaps of most significance is the fact that the Andurien alliance has really started to pay off - with Andurien aid AAG has built a brand new Jumpship facility in the Bass system producing Scout class Jumpships.  This is probably the biggest shocker in my opinion, and it really shows that the Magistracy is ready to play with the big dogs.


Of particular interest (to me at least) is that looking at the numbers, the combined forces of the Canopians and Anduriens actually appear to outnumber the nuFWL (at least in 'Mechs.)  While a lot of people seem to be anticipating the FWL to invade Andurien I'm beginning to suspect it is going to be the other way around; The Canopians have been putting a whole lot of effort into becoming a power on par with the Successor States and it's about time we went out there and proved it with a good old fashioned war of aggression (I'm sure the spheroids will greet us as liberators).  Not to mention I'm sure the Canopians have some more secrets hidden up their sleeves - the RotS and their "field manuals" don't seem to know anything new regarding what may be a not named benefactor or salvaged supplies the Canopians have been pulling out of empty space since 3040. 

On the page prior to the FWL writeup there is an excellent illustration of an Eyleuka and a Penthesilea tearing up a Ghost and I believe a Shockwave.  Probably my favorite part of the FM!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 September 2013, 16:15:19
Well, I was going to wait a few more days, but maybe I'll have to write up some of my thoughts sometime soon.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 September 2013, 16:23:30
I'm pleased to see that Canopus is rubbing off on the Capellan people.  When Danai ascends the throne, it will be that much easier to assimilate the Capellans into Greater Canopus. >:D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 12 September 2013, 20:13:35
I find it strange, how the writeup for the MAF in FM:3145 leaves me.

On the one hand, the presentation of the Magistracy in Handbook: Major Periphery States (the first book in my current collection) helped encourage me to buy into the setting on a full-time basis.

But on the other, I'm not sure how I feel about just how powerful the Canopians are now, or how well nestled they are in their "new Trinity Alliance", or how they seem to have left the rest of the near Periphery so far behind.

It almost feels like they have traded in something intangible in their drive to secure their new future - but I wonder if, on some level, they may be at risk of losing their collective soul in the process.


But then, that sort of thing is par for the course in BattleTech, so it should hardly be surprising to see these changes happen... or to expect that, at some point, there may be a reckoning for the rulers of Canopus IV.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 September 2013, 22:44:32
Well, if it helps, their military is apparently a pretty paper tiger (then again, so are alot of people's).

Also, we've yet to see how the whole "Danai is the only heir" thing will work out. We see another possible indication of Danai's "issues" with Davion troops, as IIRC, it was the 2nd MAC that was implicated in killing prisoners (or not taking any) on Tikonov, IIRC.

So we've got a really really really major issue with Danai and what happens as soon as one of the main leaders of 3 different realms die.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 15 September 2013, 10:08:51
...
- but I wonder if, on some level, they may be at risk of losing their collective soul in the process...
They are in bed with the Cappies. This is to be expected.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 September 2013, 15:07:36
So here's a question that's sort of been floating around in the back of my mind.

Just what do you use a Scout-class JumpShip for?

I mean, obviously its great that the MoC is producing a JumpShip. I might have preferred the Invader-class, but I'll be happy with the progress that producing a JumpShip shows.

So again, what do you do with the Scout?

The obvious (and tongue in cheek) answer of course is that you transport a single DropShip 30 L-Y.

But what do you do with that DropShip?

Commerce seems a little iffy. A single DropShip doesn't seem like it can carry the amount required to make it viable, unless you're talking about Mammoths and Behemoths.

Militarily, a single DropShip again seems iffy, even in the smaller, combined arms conflicts of the post-Jihad (not to mention most Canon DropShips seem to lack cargo capacity for single DropShip raiding).

The fluff of the Scout has it used for exploration and reconnaissance. Normally I'd think that a single DropShip isn't enough for that (cargo issues), but the Scout itself can carry 1000 tons of cargo, so I'm willing to believe it can be useful in that regard.

It probably proved quite beneficial when the Blackout hit. A small JumpShip with only a single docking collar in a nation the size of the Magistracy was probably incredibly useful as a pony express component.

Or am I just overthinking it, and not seeing the forest for the trees? Is the best thing about the single DropShip collar on the Scout is that where you once had 3 collars handling commerce before the Scout, now you have 4 with the Scout?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Raj Whitehall on 19 September 2013, 05:42:03
Perhaps it is the only jumpship that they were able to get a licence for to build.  Notwithstanding what governments might think about selling the periphery jumpship manufacturing licences, corporations might have reservations about selling them a licence for say, an Invader, as they might see that as a potential loss of revenue in the future.    For governments, they could see this as a way of the Magistracy to spend large amounts of c-bills on a jumpship with limited lift capability.

It could also be that the Magistracy are thinking of rebooting their exploration/colonisation efforts.  A Scout class has certain characteristics that lend itself to exploration than a larger jumpship.  Hook a Seeker dropper on to it, and I think you have a pretty good exploration team.

But to me, the obvious is that it's a TPTB decision.  There is a lot within the BT universe that has never made sense.  This could well be one of those carrot and stick decisions, by giving the Magistracy the ability to build jumpships, but throwing a spanner in the works by giving them a design that is not what they truly need.  Bit like those 1,000 Leopard's parked out the back in long term storage that Dunianshire has built over the last couple of hundred years.  You can only build so many before you wonder what the heck we are going to do with them all.


Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 19 September 2013, 15:19:22
Licensing is a good IC point for the Scout I suppose, along with its probably being easier to produce the Scout than any other JumpShip.

I always figured the Leopards were either being produced in small numbers, only when needed, or else they were being sold off to fund the MAF.

STill, its interesting to see the shape of the Magistracy in 3145. Though I'm concerned about their military.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 01 October 2013, 15:55:29
The 2765 Periphery Field Report is being planned. Perhaps we'll finally get a listing of our warship assets. [drool]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 02 October 2013, 06:12:02
And hopefully the stats on the Athena.

So been looking over 3145 a bit more. Maybe the MAF isn't quite as bad as I thought it was.

First of all, there don't seem to be any E rated units, so that might mean the Magistracy's 3025 era technology is out of the MAF and restricted to use in such things as training and militia units.

Second main point...very few of the MAF units are at 100%. I'm rather surprised by this, especially with the product that they seem to have and have access to. Its even more surprising since one of the passages describes the Magistracy's units at "Full or above operational readiness" to the point where they're thinking of creating new units. I guess they consider operational readiness something other than I do :)

I think the Independent MAF units are some of the big winners in 3145. They went from 2 F rated units to 2 A's and a B. The Canopian Brigade units still lack attached support units however.

Magistracy Royal Guards are up to 4 units strong, all A rated, but have varying degrees of readiness. Presumably in order to keep the Elite ratings, Raventhir's Iron Hand is small. 1-2 battalions per regiment it seems. The 3 Cuirassier units are likewise affected, but not to the same extent. All the units do have an Air Guard unit attached (at various strength percentages), which are lead by Majors. If I had to guess, that means 3 squadrons each, for 18 fighters total, but I could be wrong.

The newer Canopian Lancers are C rated, and like the Canopian Brigades, lack attached units. On the other hand, they're closer to being fully staffed than some of the Royal Guard units.

The Light Horse units seem to have slipped in the supply chain, but then again, considering what the Magistracy's supply train is like now, even slipping into B and C rated units might put them ahead of where they were. Like the Royal Guard units, few of the units are close to being fully staffed, with the 2nd and 3rd looking like they're missing almost entire battalions. They do however also have integral air support units.

The Fusiliers have rebuilt, but seem to have lost both experience and loyalty during their downtime. On the plus side, they seem to be rather high up in strength percentages, but lack attached aerospace assets.

The Highlander regiments have made out pretty well, coming near the top of experience, unit quality and actual strength. Unfortunately, they still only have their attached infantry regiments. Still no Armor or aerospace assets directly attached to them. Unfortunately the biggest loss was the Canopian Highlanders who were hit by a nuclear strike in 3101. The survivors were folded into the 1st and 2nd Highlanders (I can't help but wonder if they were done in because they were forgotten about in FM:3085 and only showed up in the TO&E and not the unit writeups).

The Raventhir Cuirassiers are like the Unaffiliated MAF units, but haven't quite reached dizzying heights on the supply chain. On the other hand, they have their attached infantry and armor units, and have gained alot of experience from fighting off pirates. Considering one of the units is on Dunianshire, I can't imagine they'll have much trouble with supplies.

So that's the general gist of the Magistracy units. They're not too bad off technology wise, though some of them are hurting with their actual strength. I'm glad to see aerospace assets attached to the units, though I'm sort of surprised that they haven't spread further. I'm also surprised that all the regiments don't have attached units so far. You'd think they'd have built them up by now (take for instance the Marians. All their units are 5 Cohorts, 2 Auxilla Legios and a Wing of Aerospace fighters.). I'm not saying they have to be 100% regiments, but I'm just surprised that units haven't been permanently attached over the years. Of course, that may just be the little "Make everything the same" organizational voice in my head :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 02 October 2013, 10:36:16
Still a bit saddened by the omission of Ramile's Raiders.  Now where am I going to get my Canopian pirate themed merc anctics from?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 04 October 2013, 09:38:42
I'm not sold on them being gone, but perhaps just not listed as "Notable."

Or maybe at some point they disbanded. Maybe Newton didn't have kids or something.

Oh well. We'll see hopefully. Or get some news of them atleast.

Could be amusing if there's a daughter or granddaughter and someone pushes her forward as a heir instead of Danai...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 04 October 2013, 09:41:55
I'd be curious to see how that plays out.  Seeing as how the Magistracy is matralineal, and they have that fascinating naming convention in the MoC where males take their father's sirname, I do wonder if a Ravinthiri or Ramilie would be legal to take the throne.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 04 October 2013, 09:55:16
So here's a question that's sort of been floating around in the back of my mind.

Just what do you use a Scout-class JumpShip for?

I mean, obviously its great that the MoC is producing a JumpShip. I might have preferred the Invader-class, but I'll be happy with the progress that producing a JumpShip shows.

So again, what do you do with the Scout?

The obvious (and tongue in cheek) answer of course is that you transport a single DropShip 30 L-Y.

But what do you do with that DropShip?

Commerce seems a little iffy. A single DropShip doesn't seem like it can carry the amount required to make it viable, unless you're talking about Mammoths and Behemoths.

Militarily, a single DropShip again seems iffy, even in the smaller, combined arms conflicts of the post-Jihad (not to mention most Canon DropShips seem to lack cargo capacity for single DropShip raiding).

The fluff of the Scout has it used for exploration and reconnaissance. Normally I'd think that a single DropShip isn't enough for that (cargo issues), but the Scout itself can carry 1000 tons of cargo, so I'm willing to believe it can be useful in that regard.

It probably proved quite beneficial when the Blackout hit. A small JumpShip with only a single docking collar in a nation the size of the Magistracy was probably incredibly useful as a pony express component.

Or am I just overthinking it, and not seeing the forest for the trees? Is the best thing about the single DropShip collar on the Scout is that where you once had 3 collars handling commerce before the Scout, now you have 4 with the Scout?

What are the two things that come to mind when someone mentions "Canopus" and "economic activity" together?

Canopian Pleasure Circuses

Canopian Medicine

Either enterprise can be transported in one dropship, and must range far and wide beyond the Magistracy to be profitable (not to mention well known).  A shipbuilding industry that neatly supports these money-making activities, if not necessarily raw trade, still makes sense.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 October 2013, 23:22:54
The magistracy has seen some action in the free worlds league and against the republic. Not surprised that they arent at full strength.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 October 2013, 10:39:45
What are the two things that come to mind when someone mentions "Canopus" and "economic activity" together?

Canopian Pleasure Circuses

Canopian Medicine

Either enterprise can be transported in one dropship, and must range far and wide beyond the Magistracy to be profitable (not to mention well known).  A shipbuilding industry that neatly supports these money-making activities, if not necessarily raw trade, still makes sense.

I dunno. I've always thought Pleasure Circuses were bigger than a single DropShip, though I suppose it depends on the DropShip and the Circus (and I've always sort of been off on just how big the interior of DropShips really are...). Medicine is possible as well, though I also can't imagine that either would like to go traipsing around in certain areas without an escort of some kind. But its definitely another option I hadn't thought of.

The magistracy has seen some action in the free worlds league and against the republic. Not surprised that they arent at full strength.

Oh, I know. And I expected that somewhat,  but I'm still somewhat shocked by some of the numbers. Ravinthir's Iron Hand is missing 2 Battalions of `Mechs, 2 of Armor, 50% of its Infantry and 50% of its Fighters (roughly). Even taking into account the want to keep the force elite, that's a bit much. The 1st Canopian Cuirassiers are likewise down 1-2 Battalions per regiment. I suppose that some of the units could have been pulled from those two commands to build up the 3rd Canopian Cuirassiers, since they're relatively new (And well stocked compared to the other two, and only started with a Battalion from Andurien).

Oh well, something to build on I suppose.

Sort of a shame that all the rumors about the 4th Light Horse never came to pass.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 31 October 2013, 22:00:41
Checking in, gents. I can't imagine a better fit for me in the Periphery than Canopus, given my proclivity for strong female characters. Now someone pass me a drink.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 01 November 2013, 13:50:32
And you can theoretically keep all the cybernetics and `Mechs you're used to using with your Thugees.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 01 November 2013, 13:51:33
Oh, I was gonna keep them regardless. Maybe even upgrade!  :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 01 November 2013, 13:54:55
Switch out the wings for cat ears?  Or better, your cybernetic eyes have cat's eyes!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 01 November 2013, 13:55:48
...no. Cats are silly.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 01 November 2013, 13:58:24
Well, then you're in the wrong region of space.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 01 November 2013, 14:00:54
Nah, I just need to avoid the weirdos in the fan base.  :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 01 November 2013, 16:35:59
Now someone pass me a drink.
This is Canopus.  We'll be passing you something stronger than a drink. O0 [cheers]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Death by Zeus on 03 November 2013, 22:18:25
Nah, I just need to avoid the weirdos in the fan base.  :D

Hey!  Don't talk about Wierdo like that........ ;) :D ;D

The Magistracy is like Catgirl Central Control.  O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 04 November 2013, 08:53:22
Yeah, they've shown up a few times in canon.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 04 November 2013, 11:03:28
So have bird people, mermaids, and now zombies. Still don't have to acknowledge them. ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 04 November 2013, 11:10:28
Cosmetic surgery seems more acceptable to me than some of the Thugee cybernetics.  We already have oddballs in present day that disfigure themselves to look more like animals.  But, whatever.  That's one of the things that makes the Magistracy so much fun.  A bunch of weirdos, hedonists and amazons. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 04 November 2013, 11:15:14
The Thuggee cybernetic alterations were explained in detail, in a way that works for their mindset.  I will *never* understand what would make one want to be a permanent furry.  :P
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 04 November 2013, 11:17:48
Luckily Canopians are generally an open-minded people, accepting of their fellow citizens.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 04 November 2013, 11:35:56
Okay, so can we move on from this, please? I didn't come here for a browbeating over my personal tastes, thank you.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 04 November 2013, 11:46:41
You will take the beatings and like it  #P


Question:  Has anyone run a Ebon Magistray type of battle armor unit using Full Dermal armor?  The extra point of pilot toughness seems helpfull on the Theseus and IS Standard, but i'm not sure it is justified on the Amazon.  It seems like Full Dermal is one of those rules that begs the troopers to be conventional infantry ala Assault Commandoes rather than battle armor.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 04 November 2013, 11:50:33
Tell me more of this Ebon Magistrate. I think I read once that they're super-secret and super-effective, which is a pretty neat distinction for a Periphery power. Would they really use armor like that (which also sounds like a cybernetic upgrade)? Any notable ops?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 04 November 2013, 11:59:27
The Ebon Magistrate is good by house standards and spooky good by periphery standards.  They have a mystery about them, as to how their operations got to be so good.  One rumor is that Wolf Net trained them.  Might be part of the ongoing "how'd the Canopians do that?" storyline along with the Vengeance.

And yes, the Assault Commandos listed in TRO3085 have Full Body Dermal Armor and cybernetic eye implants.  They are the one noted non-Blakist unit to make extensive use of cybernetics.  Full Body Dermal is a huge boost for conventional infantry, and really what makes the Assault Commandos and Tau Zombies so dangerous.  The extra support weapon, armor divisor and no-double damage for being out of cover is huge.  HUUUUUUUGE.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Marveryn on 04 November 2013, 15:37:08
ebon Magistrate were doing the cybernetic thing the same time that blakist did so it made there shadow war interesting. I don't think any Ebon went to the same degree but they weren't shy about the enhancement .
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 04 November 2013, 17:23:18
The Ebon Magistrate may have been around for centuries.  They were so good, that no one noticed that they existed until the 3060s.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 04 November 2013, 17:56:58
To understand the Ebon Magistrate, you have to understand the Magistracy Intelligence Ministry as well.

Its not just the EM that have been surprisingly effective and well funded, its been the entire MIM that's been surprising effective and well funded. I think Guide to Covert Ops (Ug) even mentions teams acting in the Draconis Combine.

The Ebon Magistrate is a secretive branch of the MIM that operates in cells, and may be outside the normal MIM chain of command as well, answering directly to the Magestrix. They supposedly have few family ties, and can be trained in anything from unarmed combat to BattleMech combat (and possibly a little of all of the above).

The big thing that sets them apart however is their use of cybernetics. Its only hinted at in IC writeups, but OOC writeups and other storylines confirm it.

Which is where the questions really begin to start. Did the Magistracy know about the MD, and did they create something specifically to fight it? Did they decide to create it simply because their allies, the CapCon, had developed some of the useful cybernetics (like dermal armor) and the Magistracy decided that they could make use of it as well with their advanced medical technology (and or a history of using non-combat cybernetics that let them adapt to the use of combat cybernetics easier)? Is it something else (one of the ISP books links the Ebon Magistrate with the Genecaste of all things)?

I mean, if you were told your allies the CapCons were experimenting with Death Commandos with cybernetic armor and possibly weaponry, you might consider the same thing.

So at its core, the Ebon Magistrate is simply a covert Operations group that uses cybernetics to do their job better.

Why exactly they were created when the Magistracy Intelligence Ministry already had an Active Response Corps is what isn't known exactly.

The Ebon Magistrate may have been around for centuries.  They were so good, that no one noticed that they existed until the 3060s.

Well, I suppose that's theoretically possible, but most of the source data seems to indicate a more modern, 3050s-3060's creation. But anything is possible.

And of course, the possible biggest herring of them all is that "Ebon" was one of the Wolverine bloodnames, IIRC.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 05 November 2013, 01:59:57
Why exactly they were created when the Magistracy Intelligence Ministry already had an Active Response Corps is what isn't known exactly.

I believe the Ebon Magistrate is a subdivision of the Active Response Corps but operates outside the normal chain of command making them comparable to the ISF's Sons of the Dragon.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 November 2013, 02:48:48
There's nothing to indicate that its a subdivision of the ARC as far as I know. It might make sense that it would be, but I've always seen it listed as its own Division, even with its own commander.

What kind of interests me is if we're going to see more cybernetics coming out of the EM. Not necessarily brand new, but I'd like to see their usage continue, especially some of the more advanced or odd MD ones.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 05 November 2013, 04:49:42
There's nothing to indicate that its a subdivision of the ARC as far as I know. It might make sense that it would be, but I've always seen it listed as its own Division, even with its own commander.

"A fairly recent development, the Ebon Magistrate is, beyond a doubt, the most mysterious and worrisome subdivision within the MIM." (A Guide to Covert Ops, p90)

Quote
What kind of interests me is if we're going to see more cybernetics coming out of the EM. Not necessarily brand new, but I'd like to see their usage continue, especially some of the more advanced or odd MD ones.

You won't see anything.  They are too good.   ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 November 2013, 15:49:10
"A fairly recent development, the Ebon Magistrate is, beyond a doubt, the most mysterious and worrisome subdivision within the MIM." (A Guide to Covert Ops, p90)

I'm loathe to give any credit to Guide to Covert Ops :)

Though I will point out that in that same passage, they tell us that the Magistrate's director is General Elan Karagan, while the ARC's director is a Colonel. Being a General puts him at the same rank as the overall head of the MIM.

I wonder if the whole "subdivision" comment might be someone getting it wrong, or it might be that way on paper, just to perhaps hide the EM, or hide the funding going to it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 05 November 2013, 16:31:20
Weren't the Ebony and Eyleuka built with the EM's operators in mind?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 05 November 2013, 16:52:35
Not that I can tell from going over the TRO entries.  Even the Ebony doesn't have any commentary to that effect although the fact that it's assumed to be named for the Ebon Magistrate is probably significant.  Significant of what is a bit of a question, though.  Keep in mind that TRO3085 was written by the Republic's DMI, so they may not actually know the truth.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 November 2013, 17:03:57
There's no proof of that. The Ebony has a similar name, and talks about the EM in the fluff, but only mentions its being a "namesake." There isn't anything that says "The Ebon Magistrate is using the Ebony..." or "This was designed for the EM."

The Eyleuka was designed due to a perceived reliance on Capellan `Mechs, but it wasn't going anyplace fast. Then the Capellans stepped in to help. Its mentioned that the Cappies were looking for design for "Special Operations Units" (whatever that means). After that, the Eyleuka was designed by committee.

Now, what might be potentially interesting, and maybe a red herring, or reading into it too much, or an authors OOC preference, but it seems like the Magistracy built quite a few designs with small cockpits. Which we also saw with alot of WoB designs that were geared towards the MD with the VDNI.

Personally I think it would be sort of silly to design a unit that's used 100 times with normal pilots, and once with a VDNI pilot, so I doubt that's the case with the Magistracy designs, but it was something that popped up in my mind for a moment when I saw the small cockpits all over the place.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 05 November 2013, 19:56:58
Though I will point out that in that same passage, they tell us that the Magistrate's director is General Elan Karagan, while the ARC's director is a Colonel. Being a General puts him at the same rank as the overall head of the MIM.

One, they are not listed among the MIM's departments list on that same page.  Two, if you want a unit to operate outside the chain of command and prevent another MIM from trying to utilize them for one of their operations, putting an officer of superior rank in charge of the subdivision makes sense.  Third, the head of the EM reports directly to the Magestrix and having that person be a General rather than a colonel helps the EM maintain its covert nature.  A General reporting to the Magestrix would just seem as business as usual.

Quote
I wonder if the whole "subdivision" comment might be someone getting it wrong, or it might be that way on paper, just to perhaps hide the EM, or hide the funding going to it.

If they got that wrong, then how much more likely is it that they got the name and rank of the EM's commanding officer wrong.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 05 November 2013, 19:59:23
Where is McEvedy's Folly in relation to the Magistracy? The True Wolverine Believer in me is curious.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 05 November 2013, 20:15:50
Where is McEvedy's Folly in relation to the Magistracy? The True Wolverine Believer in me is curious.

It's about 150 lightyears antispinward of Kassandra's Memory.  It appears on a map in Jihad Final Reckoning (p42 and p62).  On page 62, its marked as a dead/dying world.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 November 2013, 21:51:03
Of course, if you really want to stroke the Wolverine/MoC conspiracy theories, there's the picture on page 118 of the Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents that has the Wolverine path going through the Magistracy and apparently stopping around Cresson before turning south.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 05 November 2013, 22:05:02
Who knows what else might lurk in the Canopian Ruins, or beyond?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 06 November 2013, 00:01:34
Who knows what else might lurk in the Canopian Ruins, or beyond?

For that you want to read ISP3. Plenty of material on deeper periphery colonies/societies/etc there.

Update:  Sorry nothing on Clan Wolverine colonies that I saw.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 November 2013, 00:10:50
Actually, I was just thinking, that if you wanted another "Wolverine Conspiracy." The Wolverines left Clan space when their genetics program was relatively young.

But over the years, someone's been stripping the planet's labs of material. Maybe the Wolverine's own genetic work needed a kickstarter after traveling so far with a small population.

edit
And by "stripping the planet's" I mean "Frobisher" from ISP 3, since that post doesn't make much sense unless I name the planet.
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 06 November 2013, 00:14:45
For that you want to read ISP3. Plenty of material on deeper periphery colonies/societies/etc there.

Update:  Sorry nothing on Clan Wolverine colonies that I saw.

Oh, I know, believe me. The opening fiction was a pretty good morsel of canon, though. :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 06 November 2013, 09:18:03
This thread got me digging into Ebon Magistrate material.  Interesting stuff.  It could all be rumors intended to create confusion and caution among the Magistracy's potential enemies.  Or, it could be something rather nefarious and worth watching.  How fun would it be if the next insidious threat to the Inner Sphere actually came from freewheeling MoC?

One of the theories that has me interested was the involvement of the Duchy of Andurien in rescuing Naomi.  As far I know, no explanation has been given as to how DoA knew where and when the WoB forces were.  Is it possible it was a long term plot to get Andurien involved with Canopus and Sian.  They would never help the Confederation at the time, and this was an effort to bring all parties together.  Ebon Magistrate seems like the group capable of putting such an operation together.  They were tracking the movements of Shadow Divisions well enough to ambush one with Capellan assistance.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 November 2013, 18:00:14
How fun would it be if the next insidious threat to the Inner Sphere actually came from freewheeling MoC?
I would heartily approve of that. O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 07 November 2013, 00:31:07
This thread got me digging into Ebon Magistrate material.  Interesting stuff.  It could all be rumors intended to create confusion and caution among the Magistracy's potential enemies.  Or, it could be something rather nefarious and worth watching.  How fun would it be if the next insidious threat to the Inner Sphere actually came from freewheeling MoC?

Well, its more than confirmed that they're out there using cybernetics.

As for the Magistracy being the next insidious threat...well, it would seem to go against the MoC as it is now, but might be interesting. Of course, they'd get pretty heavily smacked down if they tried to go up against more than a House. Even with their larger army they're still about half of a major power at the moment.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 07 November 2013, 09:32:49
With the people of Frobisher being mentioned as in contact with the Magistracy and seeking help, it makes me wonder if there is a connection to the Genecaste connection.  Was it a case of the Magistracy seeking out the Genecaste's knowledge of genetic manipulation to stabilize the runaway mutations of the Frobisher population?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 November 2013, 09:42:04
Genecaste?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 07 November 2013, 14:48:53
One of the horror stories of the original ISP that linked to the Magistracy's Ebon Magistrate was the genecaste, which is basically a bunch of ultra engineered humans. We're talking going beyond what the Clans did, allowing people to live on marginally hospitable worlds, like giving someone lighter frame and wings to take advantage of the low gravity. Kind of the nightmare example.

Kind of exactly like what Frobisher is, which makes me think that Frobisher might be the core of truth behind the genecaste rumors.

It might not be that the Magistracy is looking to the genecaste for help with the people of Frobisher, but that the people of Frobisher have become the genecaste through stories and legends.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 07 November 2013, 15:32:08
Basically instead of terraforming worlds they genetically alter humans to suit the environment.  Some have been altered beyond the point of where they are still considered human.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 07 November 2013, 16:19:43
And they did it to hide from the Clans.  Which means the Ebon Magistrate is active in proximity to the homeworlds.  You know, if they really were out there.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 November 2013, 16:25:56
Or the genecaste has ranged far.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 November 2013, 17:02:13
What do you mean, they did it to hide from the Clans?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 07 November 2013, 22:42:09
Well, keep in mind this is from one of the ISP books, which is "tabloid until proven otherwise" but the original story behind the genecaste was that they were Dark Caste/Bandit caste members that went to extremes to hide so they weren't exterminated by the Clanners.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 November 2013, 22:47:47
Oh, okay. I see I'm gonna have to dust off my copy of ISP and actually read that section!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 07 November 2013, 23:49:42
Well, keep in mind this is from one of the ISP books, which is "tabloid until proven otherwise" but the original story behind the genecaste was that they were Dark Caste/Bandit caste members that went to extremes to hide so they weren't exterminated by the Clanners.

Come on now.  Everybody knows that the article about Elvis Presley performing at Danai Liao-Centrella's birthday is TRUE!  The Capellan Chancellor ordered him taken out of chryogenic suspension especially for Danai's birthday!   ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 07 November 2013, 23:58:53
If Danai listens to anything, it's Cantopop.

Also, Daoshen has better taste.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 08 November 2013, 09:28:32
Come on now.  Everybody knows that the article about Elvis Presley performing at Danai Liao-Centrella's birthday is TRUE!  The Capellan Chancellor ordered him taken out of chryogenic suspension especially for Danai's birthday!   ;D

It might still be Elvis Presley.  Just not that Elvis Presley.

And yes, all of this is said with the assumption that the Genecaste rumors are entirely untrue.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 08 November 2013, 15:13:27
Well, that's sort of the point. With Frobisher, they aren't completely untrue. There is genetic engineering that has adapted humans to life on other planets.

Lets say that since the Star League era there have been rumors about genetically modified humans (which are somewhat true).

Then the Clans come back, having used genetic engineering to create the phenotypes, especially the Elemental and Aerospace phenotype.

And then someone with a conspiracy bent combines the Frobisher rumors with the Clan genetics. "Man, if the Clans have done THAT (Elemental and aerospace phenotypes) what ELSE might they have done? Monsters man, monsters!"

And then someone comes around and points out that if the Clans had been tinkering even further, that we'd see some evidence of it.

So conspiracy guy says "Man, that's right! So they're either hidden at the Homeworld slaving away on the half inhabitable planets (disproved by SERPENT), or maybe they're part of the Dark Caste!"

And from that conspiracy, you get the Genecaste, a heavily genetically modified Dark Caste that's running from the Clans.

And then since there's always been rumors about the Magistracy and Mermaids and Centaurs and what not, then the Genecaste gets linked to the Magistracy. And since one of the biggest unknowns in the Magistracy is the EM, that gets linked as well. And so you get the entire Genecaste conspiracy.

But..at the heart of it all, is the small kernel of truth that most conspiracy theories are built on, and that's the genetic modification of the people of Frobisher.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Josva Valdreki on 17 February 2014, 13:15:26
The Clans didn't start using what we'd call genetic engineering until very recently.

Prior to that, they practiced eugenics. Which can probably best be compared to breeding dogs or cats. You want certain traits and you selectively breed for them.

In all probability, on worlds where terraforming did not work as well as expected, there would be humans who are every bit as 'different' as the Clan phenotypes due to simple, short-term evolution. To say nothing of the worlds where old fashioned eugenics might be practiced and/or enforced (even if not all the time).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 February 2014, 00:16:13
I dunno. I think there was some genetic engineering in the Clans early on, even if it was just to smooth out the phenotypes. You can select and breed for certain traits, but some of the more extreme attributes of the phenotypes I'd bet came from some genetic tinkering, not just selective breeding.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Josva Valdreki on 18 February 2014, 00:59:04
I dunno. I think there was some genetic engineering in the Clans early on, even if it was just to smooth out the phenotypes. You can select and breed for certain traits, but some of the more extreme attributes of the phenotypes I'd bet came from some genetic tinkering, not just selective breeding.

And yet the chihuahua and the great dane are both products of eugenics programs utilizing the same basic genetic materials and the same parent species. The differences between h sapiens parabellum and h sapiens are significantly less than the difference between c lupis familiars and c lupis. And even between and within c lupis familiars the differences are much greater than within and between h sapiens parabellum.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 18 February 2014, 07:08:20
The eugenics program goes beyond simple eugenics and has included genetic engineering for some time.  Warriors of the Double Helix (WoK, p39-40) goes into a little detail of the genetic engineering that the scientist caste performs including gene-splicing and chromosome modification.  Through genetic engineering they can make a male warrior a "gene-mother" and a female warrior a "gene-father".  They are even capable of using the genetic material from two male warriors or two female warriors to create warriors.  "In general, however, the Clans prefer not to meddle too much with nature, and so most often use simple in-vitro fertilization techniques.  Likewise, they rarely use gene modification to modify physical or mental traits.  Instead they tend to use genetic engineering simply to identify and correct adverse recessive traits."

Even the definition of the eugenics program includes the following sentence:  "The warrior caste uses artificial breeding programs based on genetic engineering and incubation in artificial wombs in order to create the ultimate warriors."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nerroth on 25 February 2014, 17:43:08
So, any thoughts so far on the Magistracy's role in the Victoria War, as noted in Historical: Wars of the Republic Era?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 25 February 2014, 22:30:22
A fairly interesting choice.  Time to shed those insults about a periphery state not being a threat.  Also fun to see the Marians haven't given up on the idea of sticking it to the Magistracy after all these years.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 February 2014, 15:52:24
Glad to see that the Magistracy's forces get a bit of screen time.

Little surprised at how much of them get screen time, and what it did to the Magistracy. Its a shame about the losses.

Little disappointed in how it turned out though. With the first read through, it seems like the MAF units basically bounced off of everyone, unless they were fighting unnamed militia units.

Kind of...interesting the blood thirstiness of some of the units. Not sure what to think about that, and not sure where it came from.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 16 March 2014, 18:50:14
I am a bit surprised not only how wideranging their attack on Andurien was, but also at their ferocity. Considering the traditional ties between those nations I would have expected a more professional and clean operation.

Then on the other hand the story of the Victoria War makes Ari Humphrey´s policy in the 3145 timeline even more surprising. I know I may be reading things into the sourcebooks I want to see, but as it is Ari might have quite a hard time at home because of his detente -no, rapproachment- with the Liao-Centrellas.

Sidenote:
Krakens and Anduriens. This is something the Duchy´s High Command should look into.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 16 March 2014, 19:09:09
I am a bit surprised not only how wideranging their attack on Andurien was, but also at their ferocity. Considering the traditional ties between those nations I would have expected a more professional and clean operation.

Part of it was the pent up aggression of the MAF.  Another part was a mother sending in her military to bail out a son that was being attacked by opportunists.

Quote
Then on the other hand the story of the Victoria War makes Ari Humphrey´s policy in the 3145 timeline even more surprising. I know I may be reading things into the sourcebooks I want to see, but as it is Ari might have quite a hard time at home because of his detente -no, rapproachment- with the Liao-Centrellas.

It makes more sense in a historical sense if you look at the Jihad as the peak of Canopian-Capellan cooperation.  The Victoria War was a mostly one sided affair.  By the time of the Capellan Crusades the Canopians were getting the idea that they were being used.  Ari is married to Ilsa, not Naomi, and not Daoshen.  It is to the mutual benefit of Canopus and Andurien to band together.  Neither has the individual strength to stand against their potential enemies.

Quote
Sidenote:
Krakens and Anduriens. This is something the Duchy´s High Command should look into.

Yeah, new and embarrassing ways of being punked by blue water mercs.  However, by 3145 Kraken Unleashed is under Andurien employ.  Well, lists as FWL, but stationed on Umka, so I assume ADF.  Guess they made an impression.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 15 July 2014, 12:12:21
IWM has just announced that the MAF's Agrotera is the Gencon exclusive. [drool]  They may have the waking version as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 15 July 2014, 14:12:58
IWM has just announced that the MAF's Agrotera is the Gencon exclusive. [drool]  They may have the waking version as well.

I did a happy dance when I saw that.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jklantern on 19 July 2014, 11:06:11
So I've been getting more into the Periphery States.  I like things about all the major ones, whether it's the Marian Space Rome flavor, the Outworlds' blatant distrust of technology and love of aerospace (despite me not having much knowledge of aerospace stuff), or the Taurian stubborn streak, colonization program, and paranoia.

It's only been since trying to set up for an RPG that Canopus has really started to capture my imagination.  Sell me on Canopus.  What is it you love about the Magistracy?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 19 July 2014, 12:16:59
While it might vary depending upon which era you are specifically looking at, in general, Jihad-era and beyond they have a little bit of everything.

Since the beginning of the Jihad, they have faced a variety of military opposition - Blakists, Marian Hegemony, Federated Suns, Taurian Concordat, Duchy of Andurien, Republic of the Sphere, Duchy of Oriente and, now, the reborn Free Worlds League.

Canopian forces have decent access to Capellan gear, not unlimited mind you, but decent.

They have the best Medical Corps both in the Inner Sphere and the Periphery. 

They have the best intelligence agency in the Periphery (MIM) whose intelligence network stretches throughout the Inner Sphere.  For those who liked the flavor of the Manei Domini, MIM has the Ebon Magistrate.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jklantern on 19 July 2014, 14:40:18
While it might vary depending upon which era you are specifically looking at, in general, Jihad-era and beyond they have a little bit of everything.

Since the beginning of the Jihad, they have faced a variety of military opposition - Blakists, Marian Hegemony, Federated Suns, Taurian Concordat, Duchy of Andurien, Republic of the Sphere, Duchy of Oriente and, now, the reborn Free Worlds League.

Canopian forces have decent access to Capellan gear, not unlimited mind you, but decent.

They have the best Medical Corps both in the Inner Sphere and the Periphery. 

They have the best intelligence agency in the Periphery (MIM) whose intelligence network stretches throughout the Inner Sphere.  For those who liked the flavor of the Manei Domini, MIM has the Ebon Magistrate.

It's the Capellan Gear and MIM that is currently capturing my imagination, the former because I like a bunch of Capellan Mechs, the latter for potential storytelling possibilities.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 19 July 2014, 21:47:01
It's the Capellan Gear and MIM that is currently capturing my imagination, the former because I like a bunch of Capellan Mechs, the latter for potential storytelling possibilities.

Hey jklantern there were some men in the back alley that wanted to have a word with you about your storytelling or something or another.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 July 2014, 06:51:09
I think the "little bit of everything" is a good draw for people looking for a Periphery faction.

You've got everything from cutting edge Technology (see the recently mentioned Agrotera) to using stuff that might date back to the Reunification War.  You can wind up fighting just about anyone, from high tech House units to barely functioning bandits (The Clans are really the only one you're not going to fight often, though with Dark Ages, that may not be completely true anymore).

You've got pretty heavily civilized planets like Canopus, and you've got backwater worlds as well. You also have the Canopian ruins which bring in great roleplaying opportunities beyond the standard "Periphery" guidelines.

There's a little bit of everything, in pretty much every era.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jklantern on 20 July 2014, 08:34:53
Hey jklantern there were some men in the back alley that wanted to have a word with you about your storytelling or something or another.

Just got back from my meeting with those folks.  Very friendly, lovely people.

Unrelated, if anyone happens to find a pair of legs about, they are mine.  I seem to have carelessly misplaced them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 20 July 2014, 14:14:50
According to the MUL the Mad Cat Mk. IV and Vulture Mk. IV are available to periphery states. Where might one find such exotic units in the MAF?

Ha! It only shows this on my phone when looking up Periphery General... Not so on the unit page.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 21 July 2014, 08:37:44
I like the Magistracy because it seems like a genuine attempt at a new society, rather than a retread of a quick historical revision.  You could say the same of the Taurians, I guess, but the matriarchal structure is also pretty interesting to me.  Not as crazy about the Las Vegas of the Periphery thing, but there's usually a place to nitpick in any faction.

For some reason the Magistracy reminds me of Brazil.  The nation, not the movie.  Lots of people of different backgrounds striking out in space to build an entirely new identity from that of their Inner Sphere roots, doing things a bit different and possessed of a certain swagger.  Having a good time, but mostly just trying to keep the lights on.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 21 July 2014, 10:53:57
According to the MUL the Mad Cat Mk. IV and Vulture Mk. IV are available to periphery states. Where might one find such exotic units in the MAF?

Ha! It only shows this on my phone when looking up Periphery General... Not so on the unit page.

That's got to be some sort of bug - I just checked the Prime, A, and both prototypes, none of them have a Periphery affiliation at all on the availability management screen.  Could you post any details you've got in the MUL Errata thread, please?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Klat on 21 July 2014, 11:19:49
That's got to be some sort of bug - I just checked the Prime, A, and both prototypes, none of them have a Periphery affiliation at all on the availability management screen.  Could you post any details you've got in the MUL Errata thread, please?

I may have to do it after work today but I'll get to ASAP.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 21 July 2014, 15:52:58
Thanks for posting that.  Those results are really screwy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 10 October 2014, 02:58:03
What does the MoC fanbase say to how Daoshen perceives the Magistracy in the recently published H:WotRE? It seems, the relationship isn't that cosy, is it?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 10 October 2014, 05:33:07
What does the MoC fanbase say to how Daoshen perceives the Magistracy in the recently published H:WotRE? It seems, the relationship isn't that cosy, is it?

As long as Daoshen's sister, Ilsa Liao, is still Magestrix and they are slowing the reformation of the FWL without starting a full-blown war (which likely would require Daoshen to deploy CCAF units to go to aid the Magistracy and Andurien forces), Daoshen will continue to regard the Magistracy as his most cherished ally, but then its not like he has a lot of allies to chose from.  ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 10 October 2014, 08:19:46
What does the MoC fanbase say to how Daoshen perceives the Magistracy in the recently published H:WotRE? It seems, the relationship isn't that cosy, is it?

Daoshen thinks he is divine.  His lack of respect for the Magistracy is a sympton of his god complex.  It shouldn't surprise or anger anyone.  Those Liaos have always been a little off.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 10 October 2014, 10:36:43
Daoshen thinks he is divine.  His lack of respect for the Magistracy is a sympton of his god complex.  It shouldn't surprise or anger anyone.  Those Liaos have always been a little off.

Well, from the Historical's description, the Canopian citizen weren't really ecstatic about how Daoshen viewed their troops (and their entire realm) as a kind of compensatory mechanism for the Capellan losses.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 10 October 2014, 11:05:02
He's a spoiled child.  His mother had to bail him out in the Victoria War.  Was he greatfull?  Nope.  The assumption that the Canopians will fall in line with Capellan ambitions without question is disrespectful.  Not the pistols as dawn kind of disrespect, but the kind where the MAF refuses to take part.  We'll see when/if Daoshen decides to get pushy with the Anduriens.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Drewbacca on 29 October 2014, 10:43:15
I am in the market for a Succession Era to early Clan Invasion faction and Comstar is too behind the scenes. Someone sell me on a Magistracy.

Also, besides the two Periphery sourcebooks and FM: Periphery, where can I best find info on the Canopians should I decide to go with them.

Alsoooo... What exactly was happening in Canopus during the Jihad. It is damn hard to piece everything together from the Jihad books.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 29 October 2014, 11:53:19
I am in the market for a Succession Era to early Clan Invasion faction and Comstar is too behind the scenes. Someone sell me on a Magistracy.

The Magistracy is mostly quiet in this time period.  However, they are involved in some small scale conflicts:

-Joint invasion of the Capellan Confederation with the Duchy of Andurien
-Border war with the Taurian Concordate
-Participation in the St. Ives War, mostly as garrison units.
-Danai Centrella was a part of the SLDF's efforts against the clans.  I think it was the Great Refusal.


Quote
Also, besides the two Periphery sourcebooks and FM: Periphery, where can I best find info on the Canopians should I decide to go with them.

Do you have Handbook Major Periphery States?  That is set in 3067.  Inner Sphere might help to flesh out the culture a bit, too.

Quote
Alsoooo... What exactly was happening in Canopus during the Jihad. It is damn hard to piece everything together from the Jihad books.

Well, the Word of Blake takes Canopus and burns Crimson down.  They Hadji Doru and Emma hostage.  Ramilie's Raiders executes an uncontracted rescue op that frees Doru.  Emma is killed in the rescue.  Canopian units stuck in the Confederation help defend Sian from the Word of Blake.  They eventually return to liberate the Magistracy with Confederation assistance.  Naomi is taken hostage by the Word of Blake at one point.  The breakaway Andurien Rangers free her.  An eventual joint op on Astrokazy (sp) with the CCAF and MAF effectively ends Word of Blake strategic chances in the area.

Of course these are just the events I remember, in the order I remember them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 29 October 2014, 16:48:32
The Magistracy is mostly quiet in this time period.  However, they are involved in some small scale conflicts:

-Joint invasion of the Capellan Confederation with the Duchy of Andurien
-Border war with the Taurian Concordate
-Participation in the St. Ives War, mostly as garrison units.
-Danai Centrella was a part of the SLDF's efforts against the clans.  I think it was the Great Refusal.

Not much to add here, though Danai does die during the fighting on Strana Mechty. You also have the Magistracy's economy growing and becoming more robust, and the increased efficiency of the MIM is noticed by other factions. During the 3050's you also have the various pirate groups striking at the Magistracy, financed by the Word of Blake, which leads to the CapCon/Magistracy alliance.

Quote
Do you have Handbook Major Periphery States?  That is set in 3067.  Inner Sphere might help to flesh out the culture a bit, too.

Handbook Major Periphery States is almost a must. You can also check out Masters and Minions for details on the Magistracy during the Jihad, and the novel Double Blind deals with the CapCon/WoB/Magistracy shenanigans in the late 3058's.

Quote
Well, the Word of Blake takes Canopus and burns Crimson down.  They Hadji Doru and Emma hostage.  Ramilie's Raiders executes an uncontracted rescue op that frees Doru.  Emma is killed in the rescue.  Canopian units stuck in the Confederation help defend Sian from the Word of Blake.  They eventually return to liberate the Magistracy with Confederation assistance.  Naomi is taken hostage by the Word of Blake at one point.  The breakaway Andurien Rangers free her.  An eventual joint op on Astrokazy (sp) with the CCAF and MAF effectively ends Word of Blake strategic chances in the area.

This is pretty close, but they don't take Naomi hostage, IIRC, they just try to during her transit from Sian to the Magistracy, and are stopped by the Anduriens.

The Blackout and lots of false flag units really messes with what we know about the Magistracy during the time :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Drewbacca on 29 October 2014, 17:32:12
So why did you all choose Canopus?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 29 October 2014, 19:53:56
Their belief of having a high level of health care and really snazzy uniforms.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Archangel on 29 October 2014, 22:40:21
Their nightlife.  Canopus is party central!   [rockon]   [cheers]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 30 October 2014, 05:23:24
I liked the fact that (At the time) I could play anything from a unit still utilizing really old Succession Wars technology right next to cutting edge Capellan Post-Clan era tech. I liked that their medicine managed to remain advanced, by hook or by crook.

I also looked at the other various Periphery nations and they just didn't really resonate with me. The Taurians didn't have much personality (IMO, other than educated/Paranoid. They really came across as very Successor State), I couldn't really stand the "Space Romans" (which is odd, because I kind of like ancient Rome) and I wasn't that much into Aerospace for the OA to really appeal to me.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Drewbacca on 31 October 2014, 04:18:57
Has anyone tried playing out the Canopian side of Historical: Brush Wars?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Orion on 31 October 2014, 12:31:30
I also looked at the other various Periphery nations and they just didn't really resonate with me. The Taurians didn't have much personality (IMO, other than educated/Paranoid. They really came across as very Successor State), I couldn't really stand the "Space Romans" (which is odd, because I kind of like ancient Rome) and I wasn't that much into Aerospace for the OA to really appeal to me.

I want to like the Taurians, but the paranoia drives me away.  The fact that they can build a large number of mech types should be a plus, but instead makes me think they are not really a periphery nation, just a small inner sphere power.  I don't use aerospace in games at all, and only rarely in my stories, so OA are mostly ignored.  I like the idea of using them, just never get around to it.  The MH is nothing more than a large bandit kingdom, whereas the CF is a small bandit kingdom.  I doesn't help that I despise the Space Roman theme (I like Rome, I just hate the implementation here).  While I am more likely to play bandits and pirates than other factions, it is only because I normally take the OpFor role.  I use the various bandits on a regular basis, but I would never choose them as a faction or do anything which shows them favor. They are convenient targets, nothing more.

That leaves me with Canopus.  It's not that I have a love for them, but they are convenient.  Many of my stories take place on the FWL periphery border, so they get used a lot by default.  Depending on the story needs on a given planet, they have been a bunch of man-haters that constantly cause issues for my merc group, a bunch of true-blue good guys trying to help other periphery planets, or beleaguered periphery rednecks needing help fighting pirates. I have never used the pleasure circuses or liberal lifestyles in a story, which knowing myself and my predilections, is really quite surprising.

Quote from: Drewbacca
Has anyone tried playing out the Canopian side of Historical: Brush Wars?

I haven't played it at all, but it figured conspicuously in the storyline for my main unit.  I had them start off as over-confident, feeling like they could whip up on the CapCon, and somewhat contemptuous of my merc group.  However, they were much better at fighting pirates than large-scale warfare, and it showed.  They did okay with raiding, but were slowly pushed backed through larger battles, and both the Canopian forces and my merc group were eventually kicked off the planet with heavy damage.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 31 October 2014, 12:48:08
So why did you all choose Canopus?

The matriarchy was the hook.  That is something different in BT.  That, and their ambition to try and become a Periphery powerhouse.  They just do things differently, whether that is the aide-de-camp model of officer training or the use of cybernetics.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 02 November 2014, 23:56:07
So why did you all choose Canopus?
Catgirls.  And bunnygirls too.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 November 2014, 07:49:04
So we finally have the stats on the first Magistracy WarShip, as well as some names for various ships, dating all the way back to the Reunification Era. We also have a fleet list for 2765.

The Athena seems quite effective, and must have terrified the FLWN and SLN/THN when it showed up just prior to the Reunification War, until Canopus mentioned it was going to be a relatively clean war.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 09 March 2015, 21:08:25
So why did you all choose Canopus?

Capellan mechs, without the hassle of Capellans.  ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 11 March 2015, 17:09:34
So why did you all choose Canopus?

The girls and the sauna baths. Especially concurrently.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 15 March 2015, 08:58:41
The girls and the sauna baths. Especially concurrently.
In the 'Mech cockpits.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 March 2015, 01:42:49
Capellan mechs, without the hassle of Capellans.  ;)

That's a pretty good reason as well.

On the plus side, the Magistracy got some pretty nice production in 3145 CapCon.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 19 March 2015, 17:52:45
That's a pretty good reason as well.

On the plus side, the Magistracy got some pretty nice production in 3145 CapCon.

After two years away, anything good? 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 19 March 2015, 18:52:34
The Calliope, which is excellent for anti BA and vehicular warfare.  Not fun to face as a mech, either.

The Agerotera, one of the most outrageous uses of IS tech ever put to paper.

Finally, the Amazon, the best IS Elemental knock off so far.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 19 March 2015, 19:11:16
Taking a quick look, the two mechs look pretty boss.  The Agrotera could maybe replace my Wraith/PXH love.  And it even can kill infantry without explodey MGs.  Not as sold on the Calliope over the Snake but given its mission profile I can live with it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 20 March 2015, 15:44:44
The Gun is also built in the Magistracy for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 March 2015, 20:01:04
Go go Lockton. I had forgotten about that. I even think the Sheriff and Arrow IV Assault Tank aren't that bad, if a bit odd. Though I'm not sold on a single launcher yet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 21 March 2015, 03:59:10
I'd have preferred a little less energy weapons tonnage to increase the ammo count.  Even dropping to MXPLs would save enough to double the ammo bin's size.  Tough launchers aren't a lot of help once you run out of ammo, plus there's no room for a decent bin of secondary types.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 21 March 2015, 04:46:01
Yeah, its kind of a strange vehicle. The Magistracy also seems to like using the VSPs, which I don't mind too much :)

The Luduan is produced on Detroit, which is Capellan in 3145, but its produced by Novis AT-H, which is a Magistracy company, AFAIK. Its an interesting scout.

And of course, the infamous Zahn. Another Lockton design, though I'm not really sold on it.

The Anubis is being produced in the MoC as well on Krimari, by Detroit MechWorks.

So not a lot, but its a nice boost from their old production, but then again, pretty much anything was.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 21 March 2015, 08:20:33
I don't mind medium VSPLs on 'Mechs, or even one used on the right vehicle, but this doesn't feel like the best use of the weapon or the tonnage it's occupying.

Luduans also deserve a special callout as fast spotters and ECM platforms, actually faster than most hovers or WiGEs.  The Canopians import a range of hardware in that category; the most obvious pairing is probably the Regulator Arrow.  They're still building the Tamerlanes as far as I know.

I think of the Zahn as a cavalry attack transport, intended to carry its passengers into harm's way without getting them shot up just trying to get into position.  Eight tons is enough for a couple of squads (particularly BA that can't mag-clamp like the Amazon or Theseus) or under TO a squad of heavy or assault suits.  You can also pack two platoons of foot or jump infantry. It has just enough armor to survive being shot at, just enough speed to keep up with a cavalry force, and just enough firepower to be capable of hassling someone (especially in groups) without attracting too much attention.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 22 March 2015, 06:16:16
Oh, I agree. The Arrow IV Assault Tank may not be the best use of VSPs, but I find their use across various designs kind of interesting. I do wish they were Magistracy brand VSPs though. I also find it amusing that the VSPs in the Agrotera and Arrow IV AT are different brands :)

And I'm still not sold on the Zahn. I get the idea behind it, I just think "I could probably do this lighter or faster or with more firepower..." Maybe not armor, but better in some way. Maybe I should just think of it as being a solid sturdy transport and not think too much of it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kojak on 22 March 2015, 06:42:57
I wasn't too keen on the Aiva (as I've taken to calling the Arrow IV Assault Tank) when I first saw it in the TRO, but my (admittedly limited) experience with it has been surprisingly excellent. Those VSPLs are incredibly brutal against the light, swift units that most players send to take out on-board artillery; I was once using a lance of them as part of two augmented companies (one 'Mech, one tank). My opponent managed to slip a light strike lance past my lines and broke for the Aivas, but the turn they got within range of the VSPLs, they were utterly shredded: three of the four 'Mechs were destroyed outright and the fourth lost a leg and was obliterated the following turn. And of course, since they were on an independent turret, the attack did not affect the continuous lobbing of Arrow IVs from the other turret at the same time.

It's not perfect, but man, those lasers are nasty flyswatters.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 22 March 2015, 12:16:17
The A4 vehicle has 2 redeeming qualities, trailer hitch and fast reload.  It can haul a companion A4 gun trailer behind it.  Standalone.... meh.  1404 BV for 1 launcher is way too much.  Some of that is the AMS BV... ugh, what a mess.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kojak on 23 March 2015, 02:06:04
Yeah, I wouldn't use it outside of campaigns. It's definitely not the relative BV bargain the Arrow-IV Demolisher is.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 23 March 2015, 07:11:08
Of course, it can always lead to some interesting situations.

"Why yes, my artillery is bodyguarding my LRM carriers, why do you ask?"

And while I enjoy the fact that the Magistracy is producing some nice things, its also good to keep in mind that everything in the TRO, except for 5 units, are available to the Magistracy in enough to show up on the MUL (and of course, the other 5 might show up in the Magistracy too, just not enough for the MUL :) )

The first of the units that the Magistracy doesn't get is the Succession War variant of the Predator. Since its extinct and the CapCon isn't getting it either, I don't mind too much :) PLus they get the modern variants, so that's fine. Must suck to be chasing a MAF Sheriff just to have it lead you to a waiting Predator.

The second and third units that don't show up on the MAF's MUL are the 2 versions of the Yinghouchong. No particular reason is given, but I can't imagine the CCAF giving over their purchased Clan ERPPCs to the MAF. The TSEMP variant likewise isn't available.

The fourth "Not available to the MAF" is a Capellan exclusive Mortis variant packing a large VSP and TSEMP. I don't know if TSEMP is why the variant isn't available to the MAF (doesn't the MAF have its own TSEMP variant of the Ebony? So it doesn't seem like it should be the reason, but I just find it interesting that 2 of the 5 designs not available both pack TSEMP).

And the final "Not for the MAF" is the Lu Wei Bing. Unlike the Mortis and the Yinghouchong, there's no TSEMP. Of course, I can understand the CCAF wanting to keep all of these things to themselves. :)

Of course, all of this, with the exception of the Mortis which specifically says "Capellan Exclusive" is up to the MUL and subject to change, but I figured since we were talking about the stuff that the Magistracy made, I could also mention what they get :)

And as always, feel free to ignore the MUL and use the units all you want :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Moonsword on 23 March 2015, 17:32:12
As far as ignoring the MUL if it's excessively inconvenient, that's the idea.  It's a guideline, not a straitjacket, and there are definitely cases where we don't list 'Mechs for factions where they're documented to exist in very low quantities insufficient to qualify.

If I had to guess, the Yinghouchong isn't that common to begin with and the MAF might just have passed on the TSEMP variant given its lack of other armament.  The Lu Wei Bing seems like something of a flagship 'Mech.  I have no idea on the Mortis.  I do know there's no embargo on TSEMP exports - the MAF uses both the Raven II and Catapult II.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 March 2015, 03:08:06
The CapCon might have simply kept the Yinghouchong to themselves considering the Clantech on the original variant, or yeah, the MAF didn't see a need for it, relying on their TSEMP Ebony variant.

edit
Or the TSEMP Marshal

I wonder what else I missed. The Large Re-engineered Laser variant of the Ebony isn't bad, and has heat dissipating armor...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 28 March 2015, 10:02:50
Where in the fiction can I find a description of Naomi Centrella, because I keep thinking her art in the House Liao book can't be right.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 March 2015, 10:46:58
You might be able to find a description of her in Double Blind, where she shows up a couple of times.

You can also find another picture of her in Masters and Minions.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 28 March 2015, 14:15:10
You might be able to find a description of her in Double Blind, where she shows up a couple of times.

You can also find another picture of her in Masters and Minions.

OK I'll check. I just seem to remember something different. It might be my imagination, but thanks for the references; I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 March 2015, 20:49:25
There was confusion over Kyalla Centrella's (Naomi's Grandmother) various pictures and descriptions over the years, which might be where some of the confusion comes in.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2015, 22:06:04
Merry Christmas! May you get a 'Mech under your tree!  8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 28 December 2015, 09:43:34
There was confusion over Kyalla Centrella's (Naomi's Grandmother) various pictures and descriptions over the years, which might be where some of the confusion comes in.

Was it Kyalla?  I seem to recall, with Sarna's assistance that Emma's appearance has a pretty large variance in depiction.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 28 December 2015, 14:28:57
Uh, after this long, I dunno, maybe. Though the fact that I said "Naomi's Grandmother" makes me think I was really thinking of Kyalla. Though admittedly I can't think of where we might see Kyalla's looks detailed, except for maybe Brush Wars and the 1st Edition Periphery book.

It wouldn't surprise me if we see discrepancies in both Emma and Kyalla's looks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: snakespinner on 28 December 2015, 17:36:55
Cosmetic surgery is so cheap in the Magistry, and it is so yesterday to have to look the same 2 years in a row. :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 28 December 2015, 20:27:04
Like...really...

I woke up today and wanted to be blonde....

 O:-)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 28 December 2015, 21:07:12
Cosmetic surgery is so cheap in the Magistry, and it is so yesterday to have to look the same 2 years in a row. :D

Fair point.

Like...really...

I woke up today and wanted to be blonde....

 O:-)

After 22 its just a cry for attention.  Anyone in the Magistracy would know that.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jklantern on 09 January 2016, 17:43:04
Fair point.

After 22 its just a cry for attention.  Anyone in the Magistracy would know that.

Point of Clarification:  After the age of 22, or after 22 hair colors?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: snakespinner on 09 January 2016, 18:42:26
The quality of your cosmetic surgeon would determine your age in the magistry.
That's why the heir to the throne is kept hidden in early childhood, so that no one knows their real age. :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 13 January 2016, 13:05:46
Point of Clarification:  After the age of 22, or after 22 hair colors?

Years of age.  But, this is one of those fashion rules that "everyone knows" like don't wear white after Labor Day, don't wear socks with sandals or that green, blue, pink or purple hair on a woman  is the female equivalent of a male fedora.  All of it is completely arbitrary and stems from someone else's expectations.  If you want canary yellow hair, tap your inner Billy Idol and give a rebel yell.

This makes me wonder about the fashion ideas of the Magistracy and wonder if ideas like tacky and tasteless exist in such a libertine society. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Knightmare on 13 January 2016, 16:14:12
You know, there's a publication where you could detail that...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 13 January 2016, 16:34:50
The way I've always seen the Magistracy is like this.

David Bowie would feel at home there.

:)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 13 January 2016, 16:55:21
Yeah, i guess so.  But, having traveled through various sub cultures over the years i've learned that no matter how counter culture you are, there are still sub divisions within that sub culture.  So, I imagine that even in the Magistracy, anything goes and such there would still be a set of underlying rules saying you can, and some people do, but cool people don't.  And of course those rules would changes, cycle back and repeat themselves.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: MightyBolamite on 11 February 2016, 10:24:05
So what's with the Agrotera?
It's clearly Canopus made*, but listed as a Cappie unit?
Wonderful Mech btw, nice job Canopus.

*Reference via MotW Preview. (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=29727.msg688127#msg688127)
*Manufacturer is a Canopus company and is *on* Canopus IV. (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Agrotera)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 February 2016, 17:26:45
The Cappies and the MoC share designs.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 February 2016, 18:44:34
With close ties to the Capellans, its not surprising that most things that the Magistracy makes wind up in the hands of the Capellans as well. Its a good sign that the Magistracy is able to produce enough that they have enough use AND export to the Capellans (and later on Andurien).

Its pretty much the same across almost everything the Magistracy produces (but not 100%).

Surprisingly, the reverse is also true. Quite a bit of what the Capellans produce is available to the Magistracy. Again, not 100%, but more than expected perhaps.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 07 March 2016, 18:43:02
If the MoC decided to build a new heavy in 3145-3150, what would you like it to do? Where would you want it to fit within MoC doctrine?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 07 March 2016, 21:50:25
Tough to say really. The Magistracy doesn't produce alot of designs, but between what they do build and import from the CapCon, they have quite a bit....troopers like the Penthesilea, quick heavies like the Koschei, TSM monsters like the Ti Ts'ang, and fast jumpers like the C4 Thunder.

I suppose you could argue that they're missing something like a home built Archer, though they have access to that, the Catapult II and other LRM boats so that's an..okay idea, but not a great one.

Maybe a homegrown TSM monster? Although I'm not sure much would stand up to the Ti Ts'ang.

I was about to suggest a flashbulb design, but I suppose the Marauders they produce fill that role.

Kind of hard to choose :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 08 March 2016, 09:53:21
Yeah, i hesitate on this at every weight class, simply because the Capellans and Canopians are so connected at this point.  But, that isn't going to necessarily be true forever, and a little redundancy in your production in order to have domestic self reliance to some degree is a good idea.

That being said, the MoC makes some fun light and mediums like the Ebony and Eyleuka.  Maybe something in that spirit, fast and weird would be good.  Maybe something like a modified Grand Dragon or Ninja-to, a fast heavy, but not really a cavalry heavy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 09 March 2016, 03:04:05
At this point really, I'd say let the Magistracy break into the assault realm. Its a weight class they don't produce yet, and there's really no reason for it at this point in time. If the Brotherhood of Randis can do it...

Not that I'm saying that the assaults that the Magistracy has access to suck, but it is something that they're not producing themselves at this point in time (that we know of, of course).

Not that I really know what they should produce. Like the heavies, what they get from the Cappellans and the open market seem effective enough.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: False Son on 09 March 2016, 10:40:23
Fair observation.  I usually let that slide and assume there is some mentality behind the lack of an assault, like counter-Lyranism.  Oh, those slow and ponderous assaults.  What a waste of time.  Anti-piracy and fighting off Marian raids are still a thing, so I took it at face value that the Magistracy wouldn't have as much of a mandate for slower combat platforms.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 March 2016, 02:36:44
I dunno. Traditionally the Periphery hasn't been able to produce assaults. It wasn't until the Brotherhood of Randis produced the Hawkwolf that the Periphery got a modern assault produced (the Marians apparently managed to make a Retro Emperor as well).

Considering both the Taurians and the Canopians had this problem, I think it was a technological one, rather than any sort of anti-assault mentality (though I will admit that the Canopians seem to go for faster designs).

It could simply be that they're happy with the designs they get off the Cappellans and on the open market (which aren't all bad) and how many they get. Or maybe they just haven't had an opportunity for one yet.

edit
Okay, have to admit, the Magistracy does produce an assault, the 80 ton SalvageMech, but its an IndustrialMech. Its close, but not quite the same. :)
/edit
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 10 March 2016, 17:09:31
Canopus's biggest naughty neighbors are all the hit-and-run types.  Assault mechs are useless against them, so I think that MAF resources are better utilized with faster machines.  If we really need Assault mechs, we can buy them off the Cappies.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 March 2016, 19:21:25
Yes and no. Piracy is still a big problem, but with the Magistracy so closely involved with the Capellans and the Anduriens, they could find themselves fighting against the resurgent FWL, the FedSuns, and the Republic when they come out.

And yeah. The Capellans have good assault 'Mechs that they can sell, but since I couldn't really think of a good heavy that the MoC needed, I threw out the idea of an assault :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 March 2016, 08:42:51
It could get even more interesting when Daoshen dies.  If there is a power-struggle for the Chancellorship, the Confederation could become a free-fire zone with MAF troops jumping in. :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Danai Falknir on 16 September 2016, 17:02:31
Hey there folks, getting back into gaming and looking for friends in Mekwars to get me going! I'm a big Magistracy fan as the one nation to not drink the Star League koolaid and also have potential to make them eat it!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 16 September 2016, 22:25:38
The nation that joined Star League II?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 17 September 2016, 04:11:50
Actually, they didn't. Sun Tzu had a chance to nominate a single faction to be vetted to join the second Star League, and chose to nominate the Taurians. And even they weren't formally inducted until 3067 in order to attempt to stave off the collapse of the second Star League.

They did ally themselves with one of the factions in the Star League, and were oddly part of several actions of the Star League (Danai dying on Huntress, partially due to Victor's incompetence, and Naomi being on the panel that judged Kali Liao for the Black May attacks), but never joined, or were even vetted to join.

Though to be fair, even when the first Star League attacked, they weren't the only ones fighting back :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 September 2016, 11:14:58
I know that their determination to not join the first Star League was writer fiat to drive the "Fall of the Star League and technology in general" plot along, but it still mystifies me that the Canopians of all the realms would refuse League membership.  Their economy was heavily driven by exports and foreign cash.  You would think that they would want the highest level of access to SL markets as a stimulus to the economy.  Furthermore, their national character wasn't xenophobic like the Taurans or Amish-like as the Outworlders.  To no small degree, the Canopian lifestyle was welcoming of outsiders (and their cash).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 17 September 2016, 13:00:06
I'm not that surprised. The Canopians more likely that not had absolutely no problem with foreigners and their cash. They just thought they could get access to the cash without the entanglements of joining the Star League.

And there's also the question of just how they would join the Star League. After all, its not like the Periphery nations were courted as the Star League was being formed, which would (theoretically) put them on an even keel with the 6 Inner Sphere factions. Instead, the Star League formed BEFORE the Periphery nations were invited to join. This most likely meant they were going to join as subservient partners (or atleast seem like it). And this probably rankled their pride somewhat.

Maybe if Cameron had courted the Periphery as hard as he courted the other Houses BEFORE the formation of the Star League, he might have been able to avoid the Reunification War, but instead it was a matter of "We created this new clubhouse without you, now join or die."
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Danai Falknir on 17 September 2016, 14:28:50
I was referencing the original Star League. I fell out of things after the 3060s started swinging in and it started getting goofy to me. The politics was cool, but the tech started getting nutty and overly convoluted next to the way things had always been. Maybe it was just me.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 September 2016, 18:37:47
I was referencing the original Star League. I fell out of things after the 3060s started swinging in and it started getting goofy to me. The politics was cool, but the tech started getting nutty and overly convoluted next to the way things had always been. Maybe it was just me.
Yes, I suspected that you were talking about the original.  In spite of the new tech, welcome back.  After you use the stuff for a while, you find that you like it.  Might I recommend some stealth armor and plasma weapons.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 September 2016, 18:41:11
And there's also the question of just how they would join the Star League. After all, its not like the Periphery nations were courted as the Star League was being formed, which would (theoretically) put them on an even keel with the 6 Inner Sphere factions. Instead, the Star League formed BEFORE the Periphery nations were invited to join. This most likely meant they were going to join as subservient partners (or atleast seem like it). And this probably rankled their pride somewhat.

Maybe if Cameron had courted the Periphery as hard as he courted the other Houses BEFORE the formation of the Star League, he might have been able to avoid the Reunification War, but instead it was a matter of "We created this new clubhouse without you, now join or die."
I think the Re-Unification War sourcebook mentioned that they were invited to the original negotiations, got a lot of language changed in the charter, and then walked out in the end.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HyperionCormyr on 18 September 2016, 07:17:19
Has it ever been explained just what sort of Dropship is generally used by the Pleasure Circuses?  Perhaps converted Dictators?

Magestry Metals apparently has the plans and wherewithal to build the Princess Class, but one of those in it's general configuration wouldn't really be as practical for hosting a full casino and brothel without some modifications.



I also wonder why, if the Canopeans are so well known for their medical skill and equipment, they don't produce MASH units or any other sort of known medical equipment.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sharpnel on 18 September 2016, 07:21:38
I would expect Mules or something similar, not converted military craft.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 September 2016, 12:36:55
Dictators are extremely rare as it is and in demand by militaries.  They would have the budgets to buy up those ships that pleasure circus operators could not compete with.  Not considering demand, Mules would still be cheaper, have more cargo space, and would be better configured for entertainment.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 September 2016, 16:29:14
Not to mention the Dictator has been extinct in the IS since some point during the Early Succession War (though interesting, the Magistracy was the last Periphery nation to keep a hold of them, so maybe that explains how they got them back in the Jihad era).

If I had to guess, like the others, I'd say refitted cargo vessels. I believe MWDA has a scene in a Pleasure Circus, but I'm not sure the class of vessel is ever mentioned. There could be some of the Princess-class out there that had been refitted, but that might be more problem then its worth.

As for the MASH, who knows. With the MAF on a defensive footing for most of their existence, maybe they thought it was better to rely on local facilities. Or they just couldn't get the vehicle going in their economy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 26 September 2016, 01:20:42
Or maybe they use refitted other vehicles with MASH units in them.

Like APCs or something.  Rather than the big rigs used in the Inner Sphere?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 September 2016, 02:16:52
Maybe. Then again, maybe the ones they had from the Star League era were never really heavily targeted, and the Magistracy just kept the ones they had running, rather than having to produce new ones.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 26 September 2016, 16:03:47
I'm sure that everyone produces them; They're just not high-profile enough that they get mentioned.  It's like making a TRO for sedans.  You could have a small encyclopedia for each world.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 26 September 2016, 19:13:04
TRO Vehicle Annex.  If I understand correctly it sold so badly as to make the House Books look like best sellers...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 26 September 2016, 20:02:47
Just thought I'd toss out some Magestry love: My 1st Canopian Curassiers (If I have posted these before, I crave your pardons)

Battle Lance

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0326.jpg)


Fire Lance

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0322.jpg)[/URL]


Recon Lance

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/1st%20Canopian%20Cuirassiers/100_0321.jpg)[/URL]
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 September 2016, 21:28:54
Nice to see them. And nice to see someone pull off yellow without it going orange or too bright to distinguish anything.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Medron Pryde on 27 September 2016, 02:36:26
Yeah...good job on that.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 27 September 2016, 05:44:12
They do look great but I can't take the credit. A friend of mine from Akron did the work. Yellow with silver highlights. Its really amazing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 September 2016, 16:32:42
They are most impressive.  Thank you for sharing. O0
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 29 July 2018, 20:31:11
The table of contents for Shattered Sphere has just been posted, and it looks like the MoC will be seeing some action in response to the Marians. So, I'm warming this thread up.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 07 August 2018, 16:51:27
When can we start talking about what happened in Shattered Fortress?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sharpnel on 07 August 2018, 17:43:58
bout four days ago. Got attckd, beat off attack and captured two MH worlds in the bargain.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Niopsian on 10 August 2018, 11:00:47
There is a line in Shattered Fortress about how purple is the new green in Magistracy court fashions - a subtle hint that Ilsa's alliance with Andurien and poaching of independent ex-FWL worlds might be changing the power equation with the CapCon some.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 10 August 2018, 20:23:17
I was under the impression that the power equation with the CapCon has been that Daoshen is Ilsa's puppet. 8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Niopsian on 11 August 2018, 11:24:48
I was under the impression that the power equation with the CapCon has been that Daoshen is Ilsa's puppet. 8)

Well, we know that, sure, but outside of Ilsa I would have wagered there were very few people willing to say it out loud. Until now.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 11 August 2018, 13:26:58
So, with the Taurians on the rise, are you guys ready for twenty years of downfall? Lots of story telling to be had. The Canopians seem to be asking for it in Shattered Fortress.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 August 2018, 15:58:37
Given the MoC's distance from the majority of the action, I think it has better survival prospects.  Considering the irony value of Canopus growing in power, I see better times ahead for the MoC than the average faction.  However, I expect to see everyone beaten up to one degree or another.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 11 August 2018, 18:15:39
I'd say the Magistry is close enough to the Free Worlds League, and they've been doing much at the Free World's expense as of late. The Magistry's luck may end. Imagine what would happen if the Free Worlds can direct it's attention to MoC while the Confederation is battling out near Terra?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 August 2018, 21:17:59
They'll go after Andurien first. If they act as a serious threat to the MoC, then the Capellans will have to respond.  The FWL already realizes that they cannot afford hostilities with the Cappies, especially with the Wolves on the border.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 11 August 2018, 22:40:31
I'm sure Nichol can convince Julian to attack the Capellans when she wants to go after Canopus, if necessary. She may not need to. The Wolves and the Confederation are involved in the race for Terra and the Confederation is using no small number of Canopean troops in their drive.  Canopus isn't as protected as you think. It won't be a walk in the park, and I think the end results of any war would be to sever ties with the Duchy of Andurien and then surrender all former FWL worlds. Something the Magistry can agree to, should push come to shove. Nothing existential, just a black mark and a whack on the wrist.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 August 2018, 11:21:37
Considering the howling going on in Parliament over the Rim Territories invading a sovereign nation- the Marian Hegemony, I think it most unlikely that the FWL will turn a significant amount of firepower toward the MoC.  They'll go after Andurien first, considering that it was formerly an integral part of the League.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Decoy on 12 August 2018, 13:20:46
Andurien isn't griefing as much as MoC is these days. Heck, make a deal to Ari Humphreys that he marries a Marik woman who is actually of childbearing age and promise him that the Anduriens will have the prominence they were used to and he may be placated.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 August 2018, 16:05:47
How is the MoC "griefing"?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 13 August 2018, 06:29:06
Seems like Ari Humpherys is the one with the diabolical plans for the FWL considering whatever the MOC and Anduriens have in mind, Humpherys is the one credited with masterminding it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 14 August 2018, 09:41:08
 Did you ever consider that Daoshen may have better control of the situation than Ilsa understands? Daoshen will do whatever he believes best obtains the interests of the Capellan state, even if that means doing what Ilsa desires. That does not mean that he is unwilling to intentionally overextend his military to humble Ilsa. The Magistracy is not an equal throne in the traditional sense, but one that serves the will of heaven by serving the interests of the Confederation--The Magistracy obtains its equality by serving the interests of the Confederation. That is the logic behind the relationship, from the Capellan side.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 14 August 2018, 13:02:00
There is perception, and there is reality.  Beyond that, I cannot say much.  Daoshen believes that he can dominate the MoC, but his people may end up not being allowed to speak with contractions.  Or, when he dies, wild parties may become compulsory for all Capellan citizens. >:D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 15 August 2018, 10:06:03
 A Clan conquest of the Capellan Confederation would be a plot twist, and an absolute frustration to those states who would have to border it. The greater questions would be who in the end will have conquered who. There would be a mad grab by Rimward powers of key Capellan worlds. There could be a new Capellan dynasty that would rule the more rimward portions of the former Confederation. The irony would be such a state would be propped up by neighboring Successor States to keep conquering Clan and neighboring periphery powers from rising too much. It would be more interesting if it was ruled by a Sian-Marik.
 

 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 15 August 2018, 10:56:48
We have good reason to believe that an IlClan will be declared at some point in the near future.  At that point, things could get ugly for all the major Houses.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 17 August 2018, 11:18:35
Don’t hold your breath on that. Danai is destined to rule a future Capellan/Canopian/Andurien superstate, and the FWL and Clan mongrels better get with the program. ;-)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: MarauderD on 17 August 2018, 12:00:47
We have good reason to believe that an IlClan will be declared at some point in the near future.  At that point, things could get ugly for all the major Houses.

Things are already pretty ugly for us.  I welcome our new clan overlords.  May they punch the Dragon in the teeth for us.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 August 2018, 13:34:11
I'm hoping that when the IlClan comes, the physical distance from Terra will make the MoC a low enough priority that it can maintain a degree of independence from the new order.  I suspect the remnants of Capellan leadership will be camped in Canopian territory.

Things are already pretty ugly for us.  I welcome our new clan overlords.  May they punch the Dragon in the teeth for us.   :thumbsup:

It hasn't been that ugly yet.  We've only had one or two regiments in the Capellan fighting; The rest were fighting the Marians.  Danai shows up in several battles, but as head of the 2nd Macarron's Armored Cav.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: MarauderD on 17 August 2018, 13:39:19
When I say 'ugly for us' I'm of course referring to the nation in my sig.  The FWL is sitting pretty well right now, all things considered.  Especially with Regulus brought to heel.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 17 August 2018, 13:44:37
When I say 'ugly for us' I'm of course referring to the nation in my sig.  The FWL is sitting pretty well right now, all things considered.  Especially with Regulus brought to heel.
Not as ugly as before.  New Syrtis and Robinson back in Davion hands and there's no way the Combine can hold New Avalon with Julian at the helm.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 August 2018, 13:45:34
I think things are looking better for the Federated Suns now that they've gotten two of three capitals back.  As for the FWL, their position is a little better, but they're reluctant to even go after the Marians for invading their border worlds.  I suspect that they believe themselves to be stretched militarily.  And having Wolves sitting on their border isn't helping anyone's insomnia.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 17 August 2018, 16:34:27
 With Clan Wolf wholeheartedly focused on Terra, and the Falcons, I feel a bit less defensive--a bit that is. The League really should back up its memberstate.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 17 August 2018, 16:51:18
With Clan Wolf wholeheartedly focused on Terra, and the Falcons, I feel a bit less defensive--a bit that is. The League really should back up its memberstate.
It would certainly lend more legitimacy for her consolidating power "for the duration of the emergency" than just settling scores with Regulus for killing her mom while Tamarind is flapping in the wind.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: R.Tempest on 20 August 2018, 21:48:44
 Regarding potential rulers for the Confederation. Are there any descendants in the Allard-Liao line? Candace was the heir before the events of the Succession war. I'm sure Romano had her and all her line cut out of the succession but still, if it's a choice between one of them and a Canopian that wouldn't be an insurmountable political problem.
 Please feel free to educate me on this.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 20 August 2018, 22:14:35
Regarding potential rulers for the Confederation. Are there any descendants in the Allard-Liao line? Candace was the heir before the events of the Succession war. I'm sure Romano had her and all her line cut out of the succession but still, if it's a choice between one of them and a Canopian that wouldn't be an insurmountable political problem.
 Please feel free to educate me on this.

We already have a proper Capellan heir: Danai. That she is also Canopian is only of benefit to the Celestial Throne. No Allard-Liao mongrels need apply. ;)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 20 August 2018, 23:23:20
We already have a proper Capellan heir: Danai. That she is also Canopian is only of benefit to the Celestial Throne. No Allard-Liao mongrels need apply. ;)

Any Allard-Liao would be fairly problematic.

I don't believe any of Kai's kids are still among the living.  Melissa died on Liao and David Lear passed as well.  I dont recall if they had heirs.

Kuan-Yin Allard-Liao was the last Duchess of St. Ives but it seems like her pull was mostly with Sun Tzu and even then mostly on domestic social issues.  Any of her heirs may be best placed for a shot at the celestial throne as they carry political clout in the CC or at least the very least St. Ives.

Cassandra Allard-Liao is apparently doing the mercenary commander thing and had at least one child with Tamas Rubinsky but demonstrates zero interest in the CC.

I recall refernce to a Quintus Allard-Liao in the Capellan Solution novels but no real details aside from that he was more involved with the FedCom than St. Ives.

Of Candace's kids, the only ones with an outside shot or even really interest in ruling the CC might, and that's a long might, be any of Kuan-Yin's heirs.

Aside from a total lack of legitimacy outside of St. Ives, none of the hypothetical Allard-Liaos can match Danai in terms of her claim.  Not only do they have to overcome familial associations with individuals notorious for betraying and deserting the Confederation, unlike most of the Allard-Liaos, Danai has a history of loyalty and competent, if not always successful military and diplomatic efforts on behalf of the Confederation.

Danai probably also came closer to killing the First Prince of the Federated Suns than any Capellan in history, and in fact literally crippled him, which is a nice feather in her cap.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 20 August 2018, 23:26:17
Also considering that Canopians are regarded as trusted allies and the Federated Suns as "The Enemy" by some Capellans in their thoughts, it seems any Centrella-Liao would face fewer issues than someone with Allard in their name.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: R.Tempest on 21 August 2018, 21:36:19
 Okay, Thank you all for explaining the realities here. This is what happens when you've been out of the loop for 10 years.
Personally I have no problem with the idea of a Periphery nation taking over a Successor State. Especially if it's done through a method other than military conquest.
 Of course the merging of both governments will be …. entertaining, to say the least.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: snakespinner on 22 August 2018, 02:03:21
The servitor class in the CC would have to learn the Karma Sutra for citizenship. :D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 22 August 2018, 06:27:32
Service Guarantees Citizenship.  Would You Like To Know More?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 22 August 2018, 08:44:49
Okay, Thank you all for explaining the realities here. This is what happens when you've been out of the loop for 10 years.
Personally I have no problem with the idea of a Periphery nation taking over a Successor State. Especially if it's done through a method other than military conquest.
 Of course the merging of both governments will be …. entertaining, to say the least.

given they've been building up to it gradually, it works storywise. if it had just happened suddenly it would be harder to swallow. especialyl when we don't have novels to take up the slack for it, the way the creation of the fedcom did.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Elmoth on 22 August 2018, 09:14:35
The FedCom is not exactly what I would call a success story anyway.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 22 August 2018, 10:31:33
I am curious as to if the Duchy of Andurien would allow the wife of the Duke to succeed him, or if she simply has the status of a consort. Consorts were frequently not part of the line of succession, but allowed to wear the crown while their spouse reigned. Danai may also not qualify as a successor.

 (Edit: Something that I thought was a rule was reread and found to be optional. Therefore, I removed the 2nd paragraph)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 22 August 2018, 12:26:41
Any claim that Danai would have on the Anduriens would be tenuous.  Publically she is the sister of Ari Humphrey's consort.  Not sure that gives her any legitimate claim to his position.  Even if they publically announce that she is Ilsa's kid and that somehow Ari was enough of a cuck to be ok with it, you're probably looking at a lot of revulsion among Anduriens and open mutiny among the more anti-capellan ADF regiments.

If they do try a three way merger would be much more in keeping with the Andurien national character and history to revolt and try to resist or even try to get back into the FWL since a Marik overlord is probably more palatable to your average Andurien than a Liao overlord.

Hopefully, if and when Ilsa announces that Danai is her daughter, she'll leave out the part where Dao Shen was the dad.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sharpnel on 22 August 2018, 13:22:05

Hopefully, if and when Ilsa announces that Danai is her daughter, she'll leave out the part where Dao Shen was the dad.
It would be hard to keep the Dao Shen info secret as Danai grew up on Sian and is his only legitimate heir.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: TwinkieMonkieIIC on 22 August 2018, 14:41:50
It would be hard to keep the Dao Shen info secret as Danai grew up on Sian and is his only legitimate heir.
I believe she grew up on Canopus raised by Erde Centrella and is publically known to be the third child of Sun Tzu Liao and Naomi Centrella.

She didnt even know until Daoshen and Ilsa broke the news to her when she was an adult.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 22 August 2018, 16:06:05
I suspect that when Danai does claim the throne, she will do so as Sun Tzu's daughter, and not Daoshen.  There are things that even the Capellans would not tolerate from the divine house of Liao.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 22 August 2018, 16:21:37
 I am assuming that Danai's actual lineage is better known among the BattleTech powers that be than is let on.

 I am still wondering what role the second original recording of the disaster at KwaMashu will play in the Duchy's future. I think most in the region will assume it was the Confederation who performed the set up, just as the Free Worlds League did.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 22 August 2018, 16:51:17
I am assuming that Danai's actual lineage is better known among the BattleTech powers that be than is let on.

Surprisingly, given that the Inner Sphere powers that gathered on Terra for VSD’s funeral noticed the closeness of Daoshen and Ilsa, it isn’t. Sword of Sedition makes it clear that they view Danai as the Chancellor’s baby sister, not his progeny.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 24 August 2018, 21:39:21
  You can divide the powers that be within the states into the heads of states with their direct appointees (Also legislatures, and related groups), then key members of the bureaucracy who determine what information reaches where, and finally the various levels of nobles within a state, and their related appointees.
  The middle group can have surprising power within the state, because they interpret, and then prioritize the dissemination of information. I remember reading about a bakufu official who was the shogunate's only connection with the outside world news. Anti-foreigner groups specifically targeted him for death, and right outside the palace, because it would prove the leadership's powerlessness, during the bakumatsu.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 24 August 2018, 21:45:54
 Minor powers can also play a role, as can diplomats in tempering a state's actions. The general populace is an obvious example of another group that can have enormous influence.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 24 August 2018, 21:48:26
 This also emphasizes how consequential the little spat between Hanse and Comstar actually was.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 26 August 2018, 15:37:33
I believe she grew up on Canopus raised by Erde Centrella and is publically known to be the third child of Sun Tzu Liao and Naomi Centrella.

She didnt even know until Daoshen and Ilsa broke the news to her when she was an adult.
Wait, her Dad/"brother"  and Mother"sister" 8) ::)  I missed it where did that get released. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 26 August 2018, 19:46:10
Way back in the novels. Principles of Desolation reveals the parentage of Danai originally. Its confirmed in Era Report 3145.

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 26 August 2018, 20:32:34
Way back in the novels. Principles of Desolation reveals the parentage of Danai originally. Its confirmed in Era Report 3145.

 From whose perspective is that work written from?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 August 2018, 00:21:30
Well, Principles of Desolation has it told from Danai's perspective as Daoshen tells her via a message. Then from Danai's perspective as Erde tells her, then Danai's perspective when she talks to Ilsa about ti.

The confirmation in the Era Report is in the OOC section of the book where it talks about the various RPG stats of Notable Personalities, so no IC perspective.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 27 August 2018, 12:18:46
I thought that was a "rumor" like that Sun Tzu was Hanse's kid
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 August 2018, 13:15:19
It is!

Just maybe not how you think....
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 27 August 2018, 14:06:15
I mean, I suppose it could be Daoshen and Ilsa playing some sort of mind screw on Danai..and Erde, but I have no clue why they'd do it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 27 August 2018, 17:43:53
I mean, I suppose it could be Daoshen and Ilsa playing some sort of mind screw on Danai..and Erde, but I have no clue why they'd do it.

They wouldn’t, honestly. The only reason they’d do it is to ensure a line of succession, and there are far easier ways to do that. Plus it would obviously be damaging to both of them if Danai’s parentage became known, otherwise they wouldn’t have hidden it to begin with.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: mmmpi on 05 December 2018, 08:49:35
Hello, I've been collecting mechs for awhile, and I want to build a force for my favorite periphery faction.  The idea initially was to build a company, though I ended up with more that seemed thematically appropriate.  For the most part I've been sticking to primarily general IS, FWL and Capellan mechs, not withstanding the FWL mechs being used as an OpFor for both this and my Lyrans.
From what I understand, more mobile mechs are prefered, though I'm currently short on shadow hawks and bug mechs.
Starting with the succession wars era.
Right now I have:
Blackjack, Hunchback, Raven, Clint x2, Flea, Dervish, Quickdraw, Wolverine, Grasshopper, Enforcer, Blackjack, Cataphract,
Catapult x2, Vindicator x2

I do have others that I can list if requested.

I'm looking at add Merlins because I think they're both cool and approriate for a periphery nation, and shadow hawks.

My big question however comes from my attempt to make my force playable for multiple eras.  I'm looking at adding about four mechs per era/TRO, and am having trouble picking out mechs that are both thematic and cool, and am looking for advice and opinions on what to add.

I'm also picking up the two new starter boxes, and a friend is giving me his Robotech RTT KS stuff so I'll have that to add as well.

Thanks for the help and advice.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 05 December 2018, 11:02:10
For early 3025/3039 stuff. Stalkers are listed as having a place in every Successor State and Periphery nation."

The MoC also has a basic Banshee variant, so that can work and add some oomph.

And during the Star League Era, and then later on they produce the Marauder, so that can be added in to a couple of eras if you want. Likewise the bug trio (Locust, Wasp, Stinger) can serve many eras.

Later on things like the Bandersnatch and Thunder show up as well.

Have you played around with the MUL at all?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: mmmpi on 05 December 2018, 18:07:00
I'll definitely look into marauders.

My main reasoning behind asking about mechs from 'newer' eras is more about new mechs, not updated variants.  I'm not sure what direction to go with them.

As for the MUL, I have played around with it, but from what I understand it says what a faction uses, but not rarities.  I'm trying to keep it somewhat to the fluff, so knowing that awesomes are super rare for them, I'd take fewer.  That kind of thing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Elmoth on 05 December 2018, 18:15:26
The most frequent mechs must be the ones that they can produce locally: the 3 bugs, phoenix hawk, shadow hawk and marauder for 3025, and add whatever Magistracy Metals and the other companies are producing later on in Detroit and other new production locations. That, plus Capellan and Andurien mechs acquired through friendly relations or through salvage.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 05 December 2018, 18:16:46
In later eras the Houses of Centralla and Liao are ever more closely allied... making "Canopus mechs" basically the same thing as "Capellan mechs".

A mech from the later eras that's more distinctly Canopian rather than Capellan is the Penthesilea.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: mmmpi on 05 December 2018, 20:22:32
Ok, that helps.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 06 December 2018, 00:10:18
The Anubis is heavily used by the Magistracy. In 3085 they produce the Ebony and the Penthesilea. 3075 gives the Eyleuka and the Koschei as well. The Starslayer is another good one.

TR3145 is basically "Whatever the Capellans get, the Magistracy gets as well." Some notables out of that is the Calliope, which is produced in the Magistracy, as is the Agrotera.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HyperionCormyr on 20 December 2019, 21:40:20
I have always been struck by the fact that, in spite of the Magistracy having the best medical community, they don't actually produce ANY of the canon medical equipment. One would think they would be all over that.

And anyone who has noticed me posting in other areas will be tired of this dead horse- but I feel the MoC should be making the Florence AmbulanceMech and my design Aceso Class Hospital Dropship (Using a Princess Class hull) at the very least.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RifleMech on 20 December 2019, 23:03:33
I have always been struck by the fact that, in spite of the Magistracy having the best medical community, they don't actually produce ANY of the canon medical equipment. One would think they would be all over that.

And anyone who has noticed me posting in other areas will be tired of this dead horse- but I feel the MoC should be making the Florence AmbulanceMech and my design Aceso Class Hospital Dropship (Using a Princess Class hull) at the very least.

I would imagine that they do produce medical equipment but it isn't mentioned since the game is mostly about combat not it's aftermath. The fluff for the MASH Unit in TRO:3039 says
Quote
MASH units can be found in every army’s support structure on every world,
so I have no reason to believe that the Magistracy doesn't have them. There are also dropships that have been converted to hospital ships. I would imagine that the Magistracy might have some as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: HyperionCormyr on 20 December 2019, 23:22:54
Oh, I don't disagree that they SHOULD have them and probably DO.  What I'm saying is that every time some new piece of Tech rolls out in a TRO, it invariably comes from one of the 5 Major Houses or Comstar. How hard would it be to throw the MoC a bone on Medical Equipment?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 December 2019, 23:33:59
Its a Magistracy-based company that makes the Combat Medipack.

As for the rest, production details are limited, especially on industrial and non-combat units, so its possible that they're making other things.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: RifleMech on 21 December 2019, 00:15:28
Oh, I don't disagree that they SHOULD have them and probably DO.  What I'm saying is that every time some new piece of Tech rolls out in a TRO, it invariably comes from one of the 5 Major Houses or Comstar. How hard would it be to throw the MoC a bone on Medical Equipment?

That would be nice. We do have a MoC medial infantry.

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 10 April 2021, 15:49:52
I am casting a necromancy spell and resurrecting this thread.
They're still getting the make-up of the Canopian Lancers wrong.  It is supposed to be fast medium and heavy mechs.  "Paid in Blood" described them as mostly lighter machines.  What amazed me was that the Capellans used a unit made of lighter mechs to lay a siege.  It was no surprise that it was ground up as a result.  The question is what effect will the news that the Capellans wrecked a Canopian regiment, but not their own, have on Canopian public opinion.  I imagine there will be a great deal of domestic anger over Canopian lives being used as cannon fodder.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 16:30:48
I am casting a necromancy spell and resurrecting this thread.
They're still getting the make-up of the Canopian Lancers wrong.  It is supposed to be fast medium and heavy mechs.  "Paid in Blood" described them as mostly lighter machines.  What amazed me was that the Capellans used a unit made of lighter mechs to lay a siege.  It was no surprise that it was ground up as a result.  The question is what effect will the news that the Capellans wrecked a Canopian regiment, but not their own, have on Canopian public opinion.  I imagine there will be a great deal of domestic anger over Canopian lives being used as cannon fodder.

There are a lot of people going to have to answer for their addiction to stupid pills after that book.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 April 2021, 16:39:07
"stupid pills" seems to be a concept associated with too many things in the last part of the Dark Age, isnt?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 16:39:52
"stupid pills" seems to be a concept associated with too many things in the last part of the Dark Age, isnt?

Sadly. But, what can you do...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 16:43:49
In reply to JimDiGris and FaithBomb (rather, her penultimate post... obviously, I'm typing WAY too slow today):

Indeed... who would ever expect lighter 'mechs to be used in a "siege" role?  ???

I mean, that could work against purely conventional units (armor and infantry), but when 'mechs are in play on both sides??  ???
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 April 2021, 16:44:28
Sadly. But, what can you do...

Either get "fanboy anger" (Patent pending  ;D), hope for the best, or grab a beer and see the Inner Sphere burn (again).
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 16:45:59
In reply to JimDiGris and FaithBomb (rather, her penultimate post... obviously, I'm typing WAY too slow today):

Indeed... who would ever expect lighter 'mechs to be used in a "siege" role?  ???

I mean, that could work against purely conventional units (armor and infantry), but when 'mechs are in play on both sides??  ???

Like I get those two novels as a fun read, but they don't make much sense, and there is a lot of handwaving to just make everything tie together.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 16:47:47
I've never seen the novels as more binding than the rule books, but obviously, that's a minority view point...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 April 2021, 16:48:24
Like I get those two novels as a fun read, but they don't make much sense, and there is a lot of handwaving to just make everything tie together.

I still have to read those 2 novels. So far the "end of DA/begining of InClan" novels have been so-so, but the thing with the Northwind Highlanders is that i have almost no interest on them. Heck, if i read the books, would be for the capellan part.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 16:51:15
I still have to read those 2 novels. So far the "end of DA/begining of InClan" novels have been so-so, but the thing with the Northwind Highlanders is that i have almost no interest on them. Heck, if i read the books, would be for the capellan part.

Well the books do touch on the Capellan part quite heavily, there's just a lot of tropes and stupid pills and handwaving that makes it...somewhat undigestible.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 16:52:56
Both of you are making more and more glad to be a grognard who stopped listening past the War of 3049...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 16:55:08
Both of you are making more and more glad to be a grognard who stopped listening past the War of 3049...

Come on, share our pain, sharing is caring!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 16:56:59
The problem there is that the sharing would be SO off topic... At this point, I'm trying REALLY hard to not derail this thread... I really don't want an official ban...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 16:58:02
The problem there is that the sharing would be SO off topic... At this point, I'm trying REALLY hard to not derail this thread... I really don't want an official ban...

Been there, done that, they don't even let you keep the t-shirt.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 April 2021, 16:58:55
Both of you are making more and more glad to be a grognard who stopped listening past the War of 3049...

Dude, even in the "3025-era" it was full of people taking "stupid pills" by the dropship-load. The whole War of ´39 for example.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 17:02:23
Well, let's the three of us not get banned, then...  :thumbsup:

I've always liked the Canopians as an allied faction, if not my primary one.  They have a LOT to offer, if even most of it isn't applicable on the battlefield itself...  ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 17:04:31
Well, let's the three of us not get banned, then...  :thumbsup:

I've always liked the Canopians as an allied faction, if not my primary one.  They have a LOT to offer, if even most of it isn't applicable on the battlefield itself...  ^-^

Who doesn't love Pleasure Circuses?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 17:11:59
That's a question for the masses beyond the three of us!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: snakespinner on 10 April 2021, 18:42:51
I was always expecting pleasure circuses to conquer the inner sphere.
Wishful thinking. ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 19:08:24
I was always expecting pleasure circuses to conquer the inner sphere.
Wishful thinking. ^-^

There's always time. Everyone distracted with the whole ilClan stuff, send forth the pleasure circuses!!!!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2021, 19:26:06
Well, that's at least four votes!  ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 10 April 2021, 19:40:12
As the thread starter I'll chime in with a fifth...just not a fifth of Jack.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: beachhead1985 on 10 April 2021, 20:06:07
I was always expecting pleasure circuses to conquer the inner sphere.
Wishful thinking. ^-^

My friends and I have a saying;

"No matter where you go; the Canopian Pleasure Circus will *FIND* you"
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 10 April 2021, 21:38:31
There's always time. Everyone distracted with the whole ilClan stuff, send forth the pleasure circuses!!!!

I request truce talks between the Marians and Canopians for the possibility of implementing catgirls in the Hegemony. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 April 2021, 21:57:43
I request truce talks between the Marians and Canopians for the possibility of implementing catgirls in the Hegemony.

*insert meme of Cato the Elder saying that catgirls are temporary, bu the glory of the Empire is eternal*
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 10 April 2021, 22:16:53
*insert meme of Cato the Elder saying that catgirls are temporary, bu the glory of the Empire is eternal*

I'm all for the pleasure circuses, but I'm left shaking my head at the catgirls thing, I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 10 April 2021, 22:53:17
*insert meme of Cato the Elder saying that catgirls are temporary, bu the glory of the Empire is eternal*

Why not both though?

I'm all for the pleasure circuses, but I'm left shaking my head at the catgirls thing, I just don't get it.

We fight amongst stars and robots, let people have their hallucinations, drugs, pleasure, and catgirls.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 April 2021, 06:37:07
I was always expecting pleasure circuses to conquer the inner sphere.
Wishful thinking. ^-^
Phase 1 begins after Daoshen's death. >:D
Future historians will point to the rise of the pleasure circus and the end of the IlKhan Era as equivalent to the rise of the Goths (led by Alaric) and the end of the Roman Empire. :smirk:
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 April 2021, 11:56:44
On the plus side, the 12th RecGuide has the Magistracy producing a Shadow Hawk that has CASEII and an Enhanced LRM.

I'm not too thrilled about the ammo bomb in the torso, but its nice technical progress...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sharpnel on 11 April 2021, 13:21:59
Shadow Hawks have always had an ammo bomb in the torso.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 April 2021, 13:47:40
Oh sure, and the Light Engine and CASEII makes it more survivable. But I wanted to point out potential flaws rather than people thinking it might be perfect :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 11 April 2021, 15:33:19
Who doesn't love Pleasure Circuses?
Don't you mean, Roving Inteligence Gathering Operations
I was always expecting pleasure circuses to conquer the inner sphere.
Wishful thinking. ^-^
I've always thought that they might have more planetary based opeations that have in all states
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Vehrec on 17 April 2021, 13:36:13
Who doesn't love Pleasure Circuses?

Asexual aromantics?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 17 April 2021, 14:32:52
Asexual aromantics?

So...Kurita?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: rebs on 17 April 2021, 14:35:43
In my head Canon, even Lord Kurita likes pleasure circuses.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Vehrec on 17 April 2021, 14:51:04
So...Kurita?
Do you think that the Draconis Combine with it's many, many royal concubines, has a lot of Aro/ace leadership?  It's more evenly distributed than that, I should think.  But as someone who personally doesn't see the point of strip clubs or the like, I don't think a Pleasure Circus would be my cup of tea either.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 17 April 2021, 14:59:59
In my head Canon, even Lord Kurita likes pleasure circuses.

Yeah, but Kuritan misogyny is just...well...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 17 April 2021, 15:54:33
That might actually make them more open to the pleasure circuses...as long as the women are completely cooperative.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 17 April 2021, 16:11:56
That might actually make them more open to the pleasure circuses...as long as the women are completely cooperative.

Yeah, but the Magistracy, the women take no crap. Not a good mix.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: rebs on 17 April 2021, 16:30:35
That's true, too. 

But who doesn't like a purring cat girl with a gun?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 17 April 2021, 16:58:32
That's true, too. 

But who doesn't like a purring cat girl with a gun?

*Insert Warlord with Japanese sounding name here*
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: rebs on 17 April 2021, 21:49:38
Then we must rid the galaxy of them.  Seyla!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 18 April 2021, 05:38:39
I never understood the fondness for the catgirl phenomenon.

Yeah, but the Magistracy, the women take no crap. Not a good mix.
The kind of Combine citizen who could afford to attend a pleasure circus is going to be polite to his hostesses.  Outsiders who aren't enemies will be treated with respect.  If you are a fellow citizen, then you have to deal with the pecking order.  Consequently, I don't see Combine customers antagonizing Canopian women in any role in pleasure circuses.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Nibs on 18 April 2021, 11:40:56
I never understood the fondness for the catgirl phenomenon.

Neither have I.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 19 April 2021, 02:17:26
The kind of Combine citizen who could afford to attend a pleasure circus is going to be polite to his hostesses.  Outsiders who aren't enemies will be treated with respect.  If you are a fellow citizen, then you have to deal with the pecking order.  Consequently, I don't see Combine customers antagonizing Canopian women in any role in pleasure circuses.

I'm not sure how much I want to say to this but i strongly disagree that wealth is going to make people treat pleasure circus workers with more respect.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 19 April 2021, 05:18:11
You're right.  The degree of drunkenness is a better predictor.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 25 April 2021, 05:26:30
The latest AMA was a mixed bag for us.  On the plus side, the Marians are the sole producers of primitive-tech mechs.  On the minus side, it was stated that there wouldn't be anything new for the periphery powers.  This means that we still have to content ourselves with what we can get from the Capellans and the Sea Foxes. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 14:15:17
The latest AMA was a mixed bag for us.  On the plus side, the Marians are the sole producers of primitive-tech mechs.  On the minus side, it was stated that there wouldn't be anything new for the periphery powers.  This means that we still have to content ourselves with what we can get from the Capellans and the Sea Foxes.

You're welcome for that latter part being asked.  I dunno where you got the former though because I stopped watching a little while after to get on warframe.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 26 April 2021, 14:46:37
There was a question or two about how much primitive tech was still being produced.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 14:50:19
There was a question or two about how much primitive tech was still being produced.

Hey, at least Canopus, with Taurus, are getting their own produced advanced tech, even if they have capellan help in the Canopus case. The Marians still making primitive tech is a bit facepalming in my opinion.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 14:54:29
There was a question or two about how much primitive tech was still being produced.

I'll have to look for it then.  I didn't want to go too far off topic when I asked about Ilclan designs proliferating into the Periphery.  I was satisfied (and slightly worried about other things) about them being widely disseminated. 

Although I expected both of those answers.  :/
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 April 2021, 02:27:59
Hey, at least Canopus, with Taurus, are getting their own produced advanced tech, even if they have capellan help in the Canopus case. The Marians still making primitive tech is a bit facepalming in my opinion.

Yeah. The Marians should at least be capable of Succession Wars technological production with a sprinkling of Star League tech.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 03:45:41
Let's keep the Marian gripes in our own topic please.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 April 2021, 08:48:20
To be on-topic, Canopus has been pretty good at deploying on multiple fronts, even as far as Northwind.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 27 April 2021, 14:53:40
Yes, and look what we got for our troubles.  I just hope that the First Canopian Lancers are rebuilt and no other units are used as cannon-fodder. 
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 21:07:09
Sauce on what's going on?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 April 2021, 21:25:40
Sauce on what's going on?

Last Highlander novel i think, Paid in Blood if i am not mistaken. I still have to read it. Someday, Highlanders are not high on my list of interesting factions.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 27 April 2021, 21:58:26
Northwind Highlanders?

WOB forces.. why because unlike the other major Merc - Dragoons WOB didn't hit them hard
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 28 April 2021, 10:51:01
Yes, and look what we got for our troubles.  I just hope that the First Canopian Lancers are rebuilt and no other units are used as cannon-fodder.

With Canopus' resources, rebuilding shouldn't be a hassle.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 28 April 2021, 16:21:00
The bottleneck may not be the machines.  Replacing dead warriors is the problem.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 29 April 2021, 00:03:01
Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 29 April 2021, 21:49:25
Embrace the suck, it only makes you stronger.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 30 April 2021, 15:37:01
If it does make you stronger, we'll let you keep it...over on your own thread.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 30 April 2021, 16:14:16
Heh... it FINALLY struck me that the Stainless Steel Rat was MADE for the Magistracy...   :-[
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 30 April 2021, 21:04:12
If it does make you stronger, we'll let you keep it...over on your own thread.

Nah, that filler, get screwed Periphery love is spread nicely to everyone here. 

Heh... it FINALLY struck me that the Stainless Steel Rat was MADE for the Magistracy...   :-[

The... what?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sharpnel on 30 April 2021, 22:03:48
The Stainless Steel Rat is a Sci-fi character created by great Harry Harrison. He's a fine example of the anti-hero trope. His name was James Bolivar DiGriz aka 'Slippery Jim' and he appeared in a dozen books from 60s and into the 90s.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Turaglas on 30 April 2021, 22:05:39
Alright thanks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Top Sergeant on 22 May 2021, 21:03:06
The Stainless Steel Rat is a Sci-fi character created by great Harry Harrison. He's a fine example of the anti-hero trope. His name was James Bolivar DiGriz aka 'Slippery Jim' and he appeared in a dozen books from 60s and into the 90s.

Its been a LONG time since I heard that name or book. Read them in college and as I recall I liked them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: FaithBomb on 28 May 2021, 12:20:29
Stumbled on this:

https://youtu.be/HP3Ybv2T08Y (https://youtu.be/HP3Ybv2T08Y)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 28 May 2021, 15:58:50
 :facepalm:

The Life Beyond videos that were showcased next to this look interesting.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 28 May 2021, 17:39:04
Stumbled on this:

https://youtu.be/HP3Ybv2T08Y (https://youtu.be/HP3Ybv2T08Y)

Nothing new...https://youtu.be/rLmwLcLikXQ (https://youtu.be/rLmwLcLikXQ)

*Profligates intensifies*
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Blancmanche on 12 July 2021, 19:54:10
So I've been wanting to jump back into game for a lil while now after years of not playing, and I've always really liked what i heard of the magistracy but I'm not totally sure where to start about reading up on them, with things like lore, mechs what have you

If any ya'll got/can lead me to some cool and good resources that are more than just the wiki I'd appreciate it
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: AlphaMirage on 12 July 2021, 20:17:21
Well the most information is within the Major Periphery States and Covert Ops book. Other than that there are a few novels such as Killing Fields and Principles of Desolation. Than there are some Shrapnel stories but after the Civil War and Jihad era they are very Capellan.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Blancmanche on 12 July 2021, 20:23:02
Well the most information is within the Major Periphery States and Covert Ops book. Other than that there are a few novels such as Killing Fields and Principles of Desolation. Other than that there are the Shrapnel stories.

Much appreciated! I'll look into em
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 13 July 2021, 00:12:37
Handbook Major Periphery States is the best source for a deep overview of the Magistracy.

Field Manual Periphery details its military, but that's pretty old at this point (set in 3060ish, IIRC).

Guide to Covert Ops has details on its intelligence service.

The novel Double-Blind is partially set in the Magistracy and surrounding areas.

These are set prior to the Jihad.

Field Report Periphery details where the Magistracy is just after the Jihad with its military, while the Objective series does the same for its industry.

Field Manual 3085 and 3145 also have a Magistracy section detailing what's been going on.

TR3145 Capellan Confederation has Magistracy designs as well.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kojak on 13 July 2021, 01:06:07
There are several great BattleCorps stories set in the Magistracy as well, although I don't know how'd you go about accessing them.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 13 July 2021, 09:15:51
There's also Sharpnel #6.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 13 July 2021, 21:46:14
Nice preview.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Blancmanche on 14 July 2021, 20:14:28
Dang, thanks y'all for chipping in and helping me find find the good stuff!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 15 July 2021, 15:58:32
If you can find it, the original Periphery book is always worth a look for the kind of mad max BT insanity of early years.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Drewbacca on 12 September 2021, 16:41:15
I now there is the Banshee-MC but are there any other 3039 era Canopian mech variants?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 13 September 2021, 15:52:16
Honestly, I never knew it existed.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 September 2021, 08:04:58
Probably not, I just fit the one in.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 15 September 2021, 17:12:44
As far as I know, that's the only mech variant. There's the semi-apocryphal PPC variant of the Leopard if you look at other unit types, but for the most part the Magistracy just has standard units, though naturally you've got the whole "Replace with what you can" mentality of the game holds true for the Magistracy.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CPLT-C1 on 29 September 2021, 15:38:50
Looking through the manufacturing timeline (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Manufacturing_Timeline) for 'mechs with "MC" in their name I find the following:
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 29 September 2021, 15:53:02
lets see.. drawing from Sarna..
BNC-3MC Banshee in 3037
The 3MC was developed by the Magistracy of Canopus around the time of the War of 3039. It removes five heat sinks and the AC/5 to make room for an Autocannon/10 with two tons of ammunition. Armor protection, speed, and other weaponry remains the same as the -3E model Banshee

Quote
KSC-5MC Koschei in 3068
As part of the Trinity Alliance, the Magistracy of Canopus acquired plans for the Koschei in 3068. Majesty Metals and Manufacturing produces their variant on the 5I at Dunianshire. It removes the jump jets and weapons in favor of a different configuration. It hearkens back to the earlier versions with a Rotary Autocannon. ER lasers and a Snub-Nose PPC necessitates the addition of fourteenth heat sink.

Quote
MHL-6MC Marshal in 3073
This is a Magistracy of Canopus variant of the Marshal, that was developed during the Jihad. This model saw introduction of a Light Fusion Engine, and some modern weaponry to the Marshal's arsenal. Right Torso's Medium Pulse Laser is retained, while a Light PPC, Plasma Rifle, and a MML-9 is introduced for ranged attacks. For dedicated anti-infantry work, the Machine Guns are exchanged for pair of Light Machine Guns in a Machine Gun Array.

Quote
ABS-3MC Anubis in 3081
Developed during the Jihad in 3081[10], this variant of the Anubis uses twin ER Medium Lasers and twin NLRM-5 launchers for its offensive firepower. To increase protection, this Magistracy of Canopus design uses Stealth Armor developed by the Capellan Confederation. An experimental Angel ECM Suite powers the stealth armor and disrupts enemy electronics.

Quote
MHL-3MC Marshal in 3119 (date according to MegaMek)
This variant of the Marshal was introduced during the Dark Age. It carries a TSEMP Cannon, MML-9 with a three ton ammunition bay, two Machine Guns, a Flamer, a Medium Laser, and a Medium Pulse Laser. It is otherwise identical to the original Marshal.

any one know why the 6MC came before the 3MC?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: CPLT-C1 on 29 September 2021, 15:58:47
Quote
any one know why the 6MC came before the 3MC?

The 3MC didn't even show up in the manufacturing timeline.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 24 October 2021, 05:04:01
The 3MC didn't even show up in the manufacturing timeline.

So, probably a refit then?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 25 October 2021, 03:28:56
I seem to recall that most Banshees of this era were refits.
MoC didn't produce anything heavier than the SHD until the Trinity Alliance came along.

Assault mechs is one of those things the dev team don't want the Periphery producing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 31 October 2021, 00:02:35
Well, except for the HawkWolf in Randis. How exactly that came about while everyone else seems stuck...

The Magistracy did manage to get a Marauder in production during the Star League era. Shame they didn't manage to keep it going during the Succession Wars, or get a variant of it once they managed to get it back into production.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 31 October 2021, 03:48:23
The Magistracy did manage to get a Marauder in production during the Star League era. Shame they didn't manage to keep it going during the Succession Wars, or get a variant of it once they managed to get it back into production.

Do we know if they are building the 'Royal' -2R or the 'Stealth' -5L?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 31 October 2021, 06:54:03
The post-Jihad objective series doesn't list model numbers, and there are no hints in the recognition guide or Sarna.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 31 October 2021, 10:05:56
Do we know if they are building the 'Royal' -2R or the 'Stealth' -5L?

IIRC the Magistracy was making the Stealth Armor variant by 3067. The Taurians began to do the Royal variant by mid-end Jihad, and later they got their own take of it exchanging the AC/5 for the LB-5X.

Quote
Assault mechs is one of those things the dev team don't want the Periphery producing.

Well, the HawkWolf began as a retrotech mech, and only got a 3025 variant by the DA. Taurans and Marians are also doing assault mechs by the Jihad, but the retrotech versions (Xanthos and Emperors IIRC). Dont know if they upgraded and/or deactivated those lines.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 31 October 2021, 16:29:07
IIRC the Magistracy was making the Stealth Armor variant by 3067.
Source?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 31 October 2021, 17:27:07
Source?

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/marauder-2r/msg1335549/#msg1335549 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/marauder-2r/msg1335549/#msg1335549)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Empyrus on 31 October 2021, 19:55:29
Should be noted that the Marauder 5L sports "Ceres Heavy Stealth Armor", so it is possible the armor is made in Capellan space, Sian perhaps, and exported to the Magistracy rather than being made on-location.
Have vague recollection that some other Capellan design specifically noted its Stealth Armor being made on Sian. Can't just recall which design it was right now.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 November 2021, 07:08:20
Should be noted that the Marauder 5L sports "Ceres Heavy Stealth Armor", so it is possible the armor is made in Capellan space, Sian perhaps, and exported to the Magistracy rather than being made on-location.
Have vague recollection that some other Capellan design specifically noted its Stealth Armor being made on Sian. Can't just recall which design it was right now.

There is always the chance of licencing, but capellans were paranoid enough at that time. IIRC the Taurians only got their own Stealth Armor acess free from the capellans after they just copied the thing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Empyrus on 01 November 2021, 07:58:22
There is always the chance of licencing, but capellans were paranoid enough at that time. IIRC the Taurians only got their own Stealth Armor acess free from the capellans after they just copied the thing.
Yuup. And Lyrans had some issues with them getting plans in ancient Chinese  ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 01 November 2021, 15:48:13
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/marauder-2r/msg1335549/#msg1335549 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/marauder-2r/msg1335549/#msg1335549)
Could you give me the source in-print?  Someone saying that in the forums isn't the same thing.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 November 2021, 16:02:55
Could you give me the source in-print?  Someone saying that in the forums isn't the same thing.

Honestly, i dont remember a "in-print" source right now. But Alexander Knight is not just "someone", but a member of the MUL team. If you like, you can ask him for the source.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Empyrus on 01 November 2021, 16:37:57
Objectives The Periphery does say "Marauder" but does not specify the model.
But the 5L (or 6L) would be a pretty safe bet, even if they used to manufacture 3Rs or so, it seems far more likely the factory would be upgraded for 5Ls than the earlier Marik 5M refit.

Not like there's many options:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=marauder&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=33
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 01 November 2021, 22:49:22
I think the original answer was from Kit at some point, but I don't recall where it was in the forums (official or not) or which iteration of the boards it was.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 01 November 2021, 23:27:24
if they used to make the -3R, the easiest update would have been the -2R. ERPPCs, DHS, and Ferro-Fib would be very easy for them to make, and the -2R is still a pretty good and solid unit even in the 3100's.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Starfury on 02 November 2021, 05:23:40
Objectives Periphery page 16 indicates MMM makes the 5L Marauder on Canopus IV as of 3079.  Combine that with the 5L's availability to the Canopians MUL list and they're probably making them even under Wobbie occupation and then back to to the returning Canopians.  Any 2Rs the Canopians have I assume they're buying from the Taurians.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Empyrus on 02 November 2021, 07:37:54
Objectives Periphery page 16 indicates MMM makes the 5L Marauder on Canopus IV as of 3079.
I only see mention of "Marauder", no mention whatsoever about specific model.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 02 November 2021, 14:06:30
Honestly, i dont remember a "in-print" source right now. But Alexander Knight is not just "someone", but a member of the MUL team. If you like, you can ask him for the source.
He may have gone by the MUL list.  That only tells what units are operated by a faction in significant numbers.  The Capellan-designed models may have come from Capellan factories.
I sent Alexander Knight a request for clarification.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 13 November 2021, 13:40:55
A little blurb in Rec guide 21:
The Cavaliers have "older" Clan mechs.  I wonder what constitutes older?  And where did they get them?  The Foxes deny it.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 17 November 2021, 22:42:46
and another little blurb from that...

The Magistracy is bringing some of the independent planets in the area into the fold.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: ComStarHipHopDotCom on 21 February 2022, 13:53:41
I wonder if Canopus takes credit for BattleMech beach volleyball the same way North Carolina takes credit for "First in Flight", where someone from somewhere else invented the thing, but they contributed the sand dunes where it first happened.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 02 April 2022, 06:08:55
I am a little surprised by something.  The latest Shrapnel mentioned that outbreaks of sexually-transmitted diseases are associated with pleasure circuses.  You would think that the high state of medicine in the Magistracy would mean that most of the population is vaccinated against the major STDs, especially the sex workers.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 02 April 2022, 07:31:55
I would figure they're the vector, not the source.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 14 April 2022, 00:27:49
Any exciting developments in the last 7 years, mech or plot wise?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 14 April 2022, 13:04:06
Plot-wise not much unless I've missed something major.  Still bound up with the Capellans.

Mech-wise, well the Recognition Guide series that sort of makes up WYSIWG designs for the redone unseen from the Kickstarter gives them producing a new Shadow Hawk variant on Dunianshire. It has CASE II and a Enhanced LRM on it (half the usual minimum range). So more hightech production atleast.

Additional access to Clantech from the Golden Century TRO that the Sea Foxes put out for sale.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 09 July 2022, 07:41:35
If you haven't purchased "Empire Alone", I strongly recommend it.  There are some major developments.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: BrianDavion on 09 July 2022, 17:31:49
If you haven't purchased "Empire Alone", I strongly recommend it.  There are some major developments.

yeah what Jim said.


The Alliance with the capellans is in the process of unraveling I think


also some new centrellas to be excited about.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 09 July 2022, 19:26:21
It may not go that far. Ilsa may throw Andurien under the bus.
Meanwhile, it seems like an oracle told Caesar “If you invade Canopus, a great nation will fall” and he didn’t bother to ask “Which one?”.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 July 2022, 07:50:58
Nice to see the Magistracy get some page count. Nice additions. Nice cliffhanger.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 10 July 2022, 18:46:52
And if you haven't seen it yet, the Shrapnel series has some Magistracy produced/used small arms that are interesting.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 10 July 2022, 21:41:01
It may not go that far. Ilsa may throw Andurien under the bus.
Meanwhile, it seems like an oracle told Caesar “If you invade Canopus, a great nation will fall” and he didn’t bother to ask “Which one?”.


I think I liked this book more than the previous one, there is a lot more ambiguity around what will happen, completely opposite of the run up to Hour of the Wolf.

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: VhenRa on 10 July 2022, 23:44:27
It may not go that far. Ilsa may throw Andurien under the bus.
Meanwhile, it seems like an oracle told Caesar “If you invade Canopus, a great nation will fall” and he didn’t bother to ask “Which one?”.


Honestly, the feeling I'm getting is Ilsa might not be consulted on Canopian affairs in long run.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 July 2022, 02:17:46
I dunno. The Regent hasn't done much to indicate they'd want to take over, and Isolde is new at playing general and isn't really right for Magestrix just yet.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 July 2022, 06:18:39
What surprises me is how Ilsa has reacted to Daoshen's treatment of her.  Instead of giving the Anduriens the green light to take Capellan worlds, she could simply have given the order to all Magistracy units in Capellan space to return to the Magistracy.  There would be no aggression among the alliance and Ilsa would be reminding Daoshen that he needs her cooperation.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 July 2022, 11:53:46
I dunno. I think people are discounting Ari Humphreys too much. If you check out his RPG stats, he's got a higher strategic skill than Ilsa does. It may have been his idea for the attack more than hers (Sadurni not withstanding). Also, maybe those troops are trapped in place with no quick JumpShip support.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: GreekFire on 11 July 2022, 12:44:43
I dunno. I think people are discounting Ari Humphreys too much. If you check out his RPG stats, he's got a higher strategic skill than Ilsa does. It may have been his idea for the attack more than hers (Sadurni not withstanding). Also, maybe those troops are trapped in place with no quick JumpShip support.

Prior to EA, Ilsa was likely the leader in that pairing. Ari was shown to be rather enamoured with Ilsa in the relevant MWDA novel, and she was definitely presented as being the dominant partner in that marriage. Entirely possible things changed over time, though.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 11 July 2022, 15:02:45
What surprises me is how Ilsa has reacted to Daoshen's treatment of her.  Instead of giving the Anduriens the green light to take Capellan worlds, she could simply have given the order to all Magistracy units in Capellan space to return to the Magistracy.  There would be no aggression among the alliance and Ilsa would be reminding Daoshen that he needs her cooperation.

they mention how she makes all kinds of unscheduled stops on her way to visit Daoshen, I am sure she used those stops to seed Andurian units like she did on Joppa with her own. Who’s idea that was is up in the air

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 July 2022, 15:56:49
It's possible that she's setting up the CCAF for a big tumble.  When the Wolves jump the wall and attack the Capellans, the support that Daoshen was expecting to deal with the Wolves and Anduriens will suddenly depart their positions and act in support of Andurien.  Then again, maybe she's sending Daoshen the message that when the Wolves do come, he will have to deal with them alone if he doesn't treat her with respect.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 July 2022, 16:29:32
Prior to EA, Ilsa was likely the leader in that pairing. Ari was shown to be rather enamoured with Ilsa in the relevant MWDA novel, and she was definitely presented as being the dominant partner in that marriage. Entirely possible things changed over time, though.

15 years earlier. Its possible its more equal at this point. And let me just say, the more we know about Joppa, the more I'm annoyed it just randomly went to the CC
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: MDFification on 11 July 2022, 18:47:38
15 years earlier. Its possible its more equal at this point. And let me just say, the more we know about Joppa, the more I'm annoyed it just randomly went to the CC

Also Detroit. It's bizarre that the libertarian Canopians were content to give these important, long-held colonies to a totalitarian state, to the point of leaving their citizens behind. No matter how much economic benefits partnership with the Capellans has brought, selling out you people and ceding your territory for another state's benefit is a bad look.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Flaresnake on 11 July 2022, 19:25:36
Yea whats with that?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 11 July 2022, 20:15:14
Also Detroit. It's bizarre that the libertarian Canopians were content to give these important, long-held colonies to a totalitarian state, to the point of leaving their citizens behind. No matter how much economic benefits partnership with the Capellans has brought, selling out you people and ceding your territory for another state's benefit is a bad look.

Detroit has always bothered me quite a bit. Because obvious reasons. Joppa was an annoyance because there wasn't much there. Now however...[/quote]

Yea whats with that?

Massive pressure by the Capellans perhaps in an attempt to appease. I'd assume. Capellans getting what they want :)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: BrianDavion on 11 July 2022, 20:30:52
the more I think of it the more I think that I'd not be suprised to see Isla deposed. she's been constantly absent. and Erde and now her daughter have seemingly been ruling more then she has over all I feel like that's not sustainable. even if Isla isn't deposed if she dies I think we can garentee her prefered sucessor (Danai) WON'T be inheriting.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 11 July 2022, 20:34:27
It wouldn’t surprise me if the entire Liao branch of the family was deposed.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: BrianDavion on 11 July 2022, 21:32:51
It wouldn’t surprise me if the entire Liao branch of the family was deposed.

I think Danai will inherit the Capcon. But I agree. the Centrella-Liaos likely will be quietly deposed. the MOC is a bit like the Lyran Commonwealth in that there is a body whom choses the next Magistrix from the ruling family IIRC. If Isla wants it to be Danai she's done a HORRID job making a case for it. and in fact has made pretty strong cases against it"
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: VhenRa on 11 July 2022, 23:28:40
That is the impression I've been getting with setting up a successful Centrella military leader, coming from Erde's line etc etc. When you combine that with stuff like the Canopians growing increasingly displeased with Ilsa's rule you get the set up for either revolt against Ilsa or succession crisis upon Ilsa's death where another branch of the family takes power.

Prior to Empire Alone my thoughts were "Ok, sure maybe. But we don't really have a viable successor to replace her with narratively". After Empire Alone that quibble has disappeared.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 July 2022, 05:48:18
It wouldn't surprise me if the MoC becomes a much bigger player and the Capellans find themselves dramatically weakened as the plotline continues.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Wrangler on 12 July 2022, 06:41:43
I see ultimately, MoC going its own way from Liao as minor partner after their dispute is done, merging with Duchy (yes i'm still reading the sourcebook)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: MDFification on 12 July 2022, 10:15:08
I see ultimately, MoC going its own way from Liao as minor partner after their dispute is done, merging with Duchy (yes i'm still reading the sourcebook)

I'd be excited if things turned out like that. Not least because turning on Liao and merging with Andurien makes it likely the Magistracy can finally retake all of it's historical territory, finally reversing centuries of territorial shrinkage. A merger of the two essentially makes the Magistracy a Successor State in terms of scale, and by far the leading power in the Periphery.

But I think we need a lot of stuff to happen for that to be possible. Andurien's populace wants to be independent, so they'd need to be convinced that joining up with the Magistracy is the only way they can stay out of Marik or Liao hands. They'd likely demand extensive autonomy, so the Magistracy would be essentially turning into a more federal state to make this arrangement work. We'd probably also need to see a marriage between Hector Humphreys and Isolde Centrella to seal the deal.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 12 July 2022, 11:33:37
Andurien and the MoC have long-standing ties that go back to the Reunification War.  Their governmental philosophies are much more complementary as well.  If Liao was out of the picture, I could see them already in a federal government.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 12 July 2022, 11:38:08
With ties like that, I'd expect it would only take a female ruler on the Andurien side to make that happen... ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 12 July 2022, 22:35:05
Joining the two would be problematic I'd think. The MoC seem to have a problem with absentee governorship, not necessarily the the Centrellas, and likewise the Anduriens are, and pretty much have always been for the Humphreys. I'm not sure I see it settling well if either tries to take over, and not sure if I see equal rulership. Unless they want to try a mini FWL but the MoC and Anduriens
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 14 July 2022, 20:19:34
Isolde's Marauder variant has been errata'd.  (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/empire-alone/msg1848674/#msg1848674)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 14 July 2022, 20:34:52
It seems spoilered links are on double secret probation...  ::)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Metallgewitter on 18 July 2022, 07:50:44
Given how Empire Alone is describing the relationship between the MoC and the Confederation one might think we get a repeat of the Capellan Crusades when the Magistracy told Daoshen to shove it and return their forces to the Magistracy to combat priate raids and also teach him a lesson.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Wrangler on 18 July 2022, 08:09:30
I was very surprised Catalyst decided to do this change.  I really believed they were setting up Danai Liao-Centrella as to become the head of a Capallan/MoC/Andurien superstate to fight the Clans. Frankly, having that sort of strength would make sense to me.  However, to me it looks like their going maybe extend Canopus into Audurien maybe, if the up and comers mentioned in the character profiles of Empire Alone sourcebook doesn't swoop in and take over and cancel everything.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 18 July 2022, 21:17:40
Technically, I don't think the MoC forces have attacked the CapCon forces just yet, so there may be a bit more play in the alliance still.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: BrianDavion on 19 July 2022, 01:52:45
I was very surprised Catalyst decided to do this change.  I really believed they were setting up Danai Liao-Centrella as to become the head of a Capallan/MoC/Andurien superstate to fight the Clans. Frankly, having that sort of strength would make sense to me.  However, to me it looks like their going maybe extend Canopus into Audurien maybe, if the up and comers mentioned in the character profiles of Empire Alone sourcebook doesn't swoop in and take over and cancel everything.

doesn't suprise me, this break up has been a loooooooooong time coming, I never had any beleif the capellans where being set up as some sort of bulwark agaisnt the clans.  frankly, the CCAF has 52 regiments, and everyone else has 30 something... anyone who thinks the CC isn't going to suffer some set backs is kidding themselves
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Metallgewitter on 19 July 2022, 06:19:45
doesn't suprise me, this break up has been a loooooooooong time coming, I never had any beleif the capellans where being set up as some sort of bulwark agaisnt the clans.  frankly, the CCAF has 52 regiments, and everyone else has 30 something... anyone who thinks the CC isn't going to suffer some set backs is kidding themselves

That is true. If the Confederation and the Magistracy would be one state they would be a superpower in the IS. But now with the foundation getting shaky it might be a weakening. Then again what enemies does the Confederation have at this point? The Republic is gone, the suns are hanging on by a string and the Free Worlds are more or less neutral. That leaves the Wolves and perhaps Andurien though the duchy should have learned their lesson by now.

Funniest thing would be if the Magistracy merges with the Duchy of Andurien and also takes a chunk of the Marian Hegemony
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Wrangler on 19 July 2022, 06:30:41
doesn't suprise me, this break up has been a loooooooooong time coming, I never had any beleif the capellans where being set up as some sort of bulwark agaisnt the clans.  frankly, the CCAF has 52 regiments, and everyone else has 30 something... anyone who thinks the CC isn't going to suffer some set backs is kidding themselves
Well I'm almost finished reading Empire Alone.  The impression was the CapCom was forces were spread thinner, thus why the invasion happened by the Anduriens. If the smackdown between the ilKhan and the Channcelor goes down, I suspect the Liao forces will perhaps be too weak to repulse an invasion unless Danai is able cut deal with someone so "likely-dead-brother/dad" forces can focus on one threat.

As soon as the Hegemony forces that invaded are handled, the MoC may end up going on expedition to do a once in generation smack down on Neo-Romans if nothing else happens.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 19 July 2022, 06:32:22
Funniest thing would be if the Magistracy merges with the Duchy of Andurien and also takes a chunk of the Marian Hegemony
The Marian Hegemony is too far to effectively hold, especially with the lack of a reliable HPG network.  A puppet government would be a better solution.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 19 July 2022, 06:34:24
As soon as the Hegemony forces that invaded are handled, the MoC may end up going on expedition to do a once in generation smack down on Neo-Romans if nothing else happens.[/spoiler]
They already have been handled.  The MoC taskforce is on its way to Alphard.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 20 July 2022, 05:32:24
I find it ironic that former Republic troops are now fighting for the MoC, given their part in the Capellan's war on the Republic.  Gabrielle's Pride are described as veterans of fighting against the clans and can roll on the Clan Wolf RAT.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Metallgewitter on 20 July 2022, 06:26:40
I find it ironic that former Republic troops are now fighting for the MoC, given their part in the Capellan's war on the Republic.  Gabrielle's Pride are described as veterans of fighting against the clans and can roll on the Clan Wolf RAT.

Isn't Gabrielle's Pride the continuation of the Mercenary unit Griffin's Pride? The symbol in empire Alone is the same at least. So having former Republic soldiers as members doesn't seem that unusal
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: BrianDavion on 20 July 2022, 13:31:41
Well I'm almost finished reading Empire Alone.  The impression was the CapCom was forces were spread thinner, thus why the invasion happened by the Anduriens. If the smackdown between the ilKhan and the Channcelor goes down, I suspect the Liao forces will perhaps be too weak to repulse an invasion unless Danai is able cut deal with someone so "likely-dead-brother/dad" forces can focus on one threat.



I'm not sure a deal will be able to be cut, Andurian likely wants as much as they can take so any deal on that end would require surrendering a large number of Sian commonality worlds, (as well as likely some to the MOC) and Alaric'll basicly demand the capcon "bend the knee" the CC IMHO is in a "no win" position, Daoshen's over extended and is GOING to pay the price. a   sane reasonable ruler would have abandoned any intreast in further expansion, dug in along a border he deemed defensivable and wheeled back to deal with Andurian in sufficant force that the ever oppertunistic  MOC would side with you as "the victor"


that said looking at the text of his conversion with Ilsa I think there's something intreasting at play here..

The Chancellor fell silent for a long moment before
delivering his answer: “You have forgotten where your
obligation lies.” The Magestrix’s focus on growing their
realms had blinded her to her first duty as a Liao, he said.
The threat to the Confederation lay at the core of the
Inner Sphere, on Terra, and it was the responsibility of
the Celestial Wisdom to meet the threat of the ilClan by
reclaiming Confederation worlds and preparing to take
humanity’s homeworld from the Wolves. All other concerns
were secondary, Daoshen said, his gaze falling upon Ilsa—
especially hers.


IMHO Daoshen has become so obsessed with Terra he's become blind to threats from other quarters, to the point where my gut says he'll IGNORE Andurian, convinced that "he'll be able to deal with the upstarts once Terra is dealt with"
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 20 July 2022, 15:46:20
Isn't Gabrielle's Pride the continuation of the Mercenary unit Griffin's Pride? The symbol in empire Alone is the same at least. So having former Republic soldiers as members doesn't seem that unusal
There's no indication that Griffin's Pride isn't still working for the FWL.  They have a completely different unit symbol.  Griffin's Pride looks like it should be a Jade Falcon galaxy (see p 57).  Gabrielle's Pride looks like a green upside down triangle (see p. 102 on the arm).  The same page says that she is the former exec of Emory’s Evicerators.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 21 July 2022, 16:57:22
besides everything that has happened has happened before
see the downfall of the Fedcom Super State
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Star Captain on 28 July 2022, 05:04:00
Aw yes, the totally civil periphery, also who came up with the idea of catgirls in CANOPUS??
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 28 July 2022, 06:13:51
also who came up with the idea of catgirls in CANOPUS??
Just some fans.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Star Captain on 28 July 2022, 06:50:23
Just some fans.

no way
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 28 July 2022, 17:34:15
They're canonical as of that one particular illustration in the Companion...  ::)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coriendal on 03 August 2022, 10:23:29
Canopus is another periphery nation whose military bugs me.  They (in 3025) make a total of 50 locusts, stingers and wasps, 10 shadow hawks, manticores, sabre ASF and later the pike.

So much could be done with that.

They have a240 fusion engine from the manticore.  Convert a bug line to build a hermes II knock off.  Call it the Calliope and give it a srm 4, lrm 5 and large laser.  (yah, almost like the real one)

Then produce a 75 ton 3/5/3 mech called the Penthesilea with a large laser, PPC, ac 10 and 3 medium lasers.

Use that 180 ICE engine to build knock off goblin tanks and galleon tanks.  Pull the small lasers and put in either a srm4 in the turret or a 3 ton infantry bay.

Seriously so much better.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 03 August 2022, 17:29:52
Alphard is relatively close by for some J. Edgar goodness too...  8)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 03 August 2022, 18:46:48
They have a240 fusion engine from the manticore.  Convert a bug line to build a hermes II knock off.  Call it the Calliope and give it a srm 4, lrm 5 and large laser.  (yah, almost like the real one)

Then produce a 75 ton 3/5/3 mech called the Penthesilea with a large laser, PPC, ac 10 and 3 medium lasers.

Use that 180 ICE engine to build knock off goblin tanks and galleon tanks.  Pull the small lasers and put in either a srm4 in the turret or a 3 ton infantry bay.
Indications are that the Magistracy simply did not have the intellectual capital to undertake R&D of a new homegrown mech design from the ground up. Nor did they have the industrial capacity to build a factory for such. At least, not until the Trinity Alliance of the 3060s.


Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 04 August 2022, 11:58:57
Then produce a 75 ton 3/5/3 mech called the Penthesilea with a large laser, PPC, ac 10 and 3 medium lasers.


Sounds like it was designed by a crazy person.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coriendal on 04 August 2022, 12:20:58
It uses the 225 fusion of the Sabre ASF and closely matches the Penthesilea(modern) in weapons load out.  A 75 ton slow jumping "Marauder" is better than just a few 55 ton Shadow Hawks.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 04 August 2022, 13:03:19
What if you can make a dozen Shadow Hawks or one of these "Penthesileas"?

Or what if it's the Shadow Hawks or nothing?

What if you need to chase down pirates in Panthers and Vindicators?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 04 August 2022, 15:14:26
Yeah... Better off fiddling with the SHD's loadout to get more bang.
Or put same 225SFE in the SHD (weighs exactly the same as a 220SFE) to free up more tonnage.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 04 August 2022, 18:12:22
Now THAT is an angle far too little explored...  ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 04 August 2022, 21:45:12
Indications are that the Magistracy simply did not have the intellectual capital to undertake R&D of a new homegrown mech design from the ground up. Nor did they have the industrial capacity to build a factory for such. At least, not until the Trinity Alliance of the 3060s.
They may not have had the "brains" to do the R&D but they had the "intel services" to "borrow" that R&D from a number of places..  After all those traveling Pleasure Circuses are out there.

But then again, Before Merlin appeared in 3010 , it had been over 100 years for a fully new design Mech appears in the Battletech universe.  But then the builders were from the Outworlds Alliance of all places. 

Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 05 August 2022, 05:39:47
They may not have had the "brains" to do the R&D but they had the "intel services" to "borrow" that R&D from a number of places..  After all those traveling Pleasure Circuses are out there.

But then again, Before Merlin appeared in 3010 , it had been over 100 years for a fully new design Mech appears in the Battletech universe.  But then the builders were from the Outworlds Alliance of all places.
That's assuming anybody had some sort of parallel R&D program the MIM could crib off. There's no indication anybody had anything. Well, the FWL had the Liberator. But even if there was an R&D effort somewhere they could somehow copy wholesale, they still didn't have the industrial capability to build the factory from the ground up.

And the Merlin, while built in the OA... was built by a Lyran.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Coriendal on 07 August 2022, 08:58:26
"Yeah... Better off fiddling with the SHD's loadout to get more bang.  Or put same 225SFE in the SHD (weighs exactly the same as a 220SFE) to free up more tonnage."

The easiest way to get more bang for the SHD's buck is to pull the SRM 2 and ammo and replace it with two ML's.  Now you can jump and fire all 3 ML's, run and add in the AC 5, or stand still and Alpha Strike, all without generating any heat.  Plus you finally get to use that extra Heat Sink that has been in there since they forgot to make LRM 5's have 3 heat in the very first book.  Why would 2 LRM 5's generate the same heat as a LRM 10 but use 1 ton less tonnage?

Putting a new engine in the SHD is a major rework, might as well retool a bug line to make a 75 ton frankenmech like the downgraded Penthesilea with a powerful direct fire capability.  Plus if you join the Andurien's in 3014 instead of waiting to 3030 you might actually make a viable state.  It would pair nicely with the Stalker the Andurien's make.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: wanderer25 on 11 August 2022, 20:54:49

  The simplest way to get more out of the SHD would be to strip out the AC-5 and slap on one of those Parti-Kill ppc's they are already making  for the
Manticore  along with  2 extra heatsinks.

While you are at it' drop the SRM-2 for a 2nd ML and a jump jet  to boost  your range to 5 hexes!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: D351 on 08 September 2022, 11:32:07
Finally home. Howdy, everybody. I'm new here.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 08 September 2022, 15:04:27
Welcome to the club!
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 20 February 2023, 17:42:11
 :rant: I COMMAND THIS THREAD TO RISE FROM THE DEAD!!!  :rant:

Anyhow, Canopus now has 4 regiments heading for Alphard: the Third Canopian Cuirassiers, Second Canopian Light Horse, Markson's Marauders, and Gabrielle's Pride.  The Pride are all Republic veterans who survived combat with just about everyone and brought their equipment with them.  Given the revelation that in 3146, the Snow Ravens made contact with the MoC and left them three Blood Asps as a possible prelude to a longer term trading relationship, what degree do you think the task force is equipped with clantech?  What do you think are the odds that the task force can achieve regime change or completely mangle the MHAF?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 20 February 2023, 18:11:36
:rant: I COMMAND THIS THREAD TO RISE FROM THE DEAD!!!  :rant:

Anyhow, Canopus now has 4 regiments heading for Alphard: the Third Canopian Cuirassiers, Second Canopian Light Horse, Markson's Marauders, and Gabrielle's Pride.  The Pride are all Republic veterans who survived combat with just about everyone and brought their equipment with them.  Given the revelation that in 3146, the Snow Ravens made contact with the MoC and left them three Blood Asps as a possible prelude to a longer term trading relationship, what degree do you think the task force is equipped with clantech?  What do you think are the odds that the task force can achieve regime change or completely mangle the MHAF?

Well, you can ask the last ones that tried to invaded Alphard.... ^-^
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Daryk on 20 February 2023, 19:03:00
While the Lothians will initially cheer the fall of the Marians, they'll be more than a little concerned by any 'bond' nonsense...  ::)
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Maelwys on 20 February 2023, 21:55:39
Tough to say. The Magistracy is using Clantech, and has access to a few designs that are seemingly sold all over.

We know from Empire Alone that the Canopian Brigade Command Company had clantech in it (pg 70 EA). I wouldn't expect there to be alot of it, but sprinkled through out is certainly possible.

As for them taking out the Marians..probably not. Considering the theme seems to be Balkanization rather than consolidation, I think its going to be a long fight.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: D-Rock on 03 March 2023, 15:08:08
:rant: I COMMAND THIS THREAD TO RISE FROM THE DEAD!!!  :rant:

Anyhow, Canopus now has 4 regiments heading for Alphard: the Third Canopian Cuirassiers, Second Canopian Light Horse, Markson's Marauders, and Gabrielle's Pride.  The Pride are all Republic veterans who survived combat with just about everyone and brought their equipment with them.  Given the revelation that in 3146, the Snow Ravens made contact with the MoC and left them three Blood Asps as a possible prelude to a longer term trading relationship, what degree do you think the task force is equipped with clantech?  What do you think are the odds that the task force can achieve regime change or completely mangle the MHAF?

They'll probably tucker themselves out after a planet or two. I mean, it only seems to happen every time.

What I want to know is if Niops will end up being on the Marian/Canopian warpath. That would make an interesting story.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 03 March 2023, 17:26:27
They'll probably tucker themselves out after a planet or two. I mean, it only seems to happen every time.
Would you care to cite specific cases of "tuckering themselves out?"  The MoC just destroyed or captured an entire Marian Legion on Booker and forced another to retreat. With the mauling that the remaining four Marian Legions have experienced in the FWL, they may not have enough troops to repulse a Canopian offensive.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: D-Rock on 03 March 2023, 17:39:39
Would you care to cite specific cases of "tuckering themselves out?"  The MoC just destroyed or captured an entire Marian Legion on Booker and forced another to retreat. With the mauling that the remaining four Marian Legions have experienced in the FWL, they may not have enough troops to repulse a Canopian offensive.

In the sense that this is what happens with most major campaigns in battletech.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rules, and the scale varies depending on the size of the super powers, but for the most part there's fewer examples of an actual killing stroke. Amaris, the Terran Republic, but beyond that? Not much.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sartris on 03 March 2023, 18:37:13
The composition of the moc task force does not seem like it’s designed to end the hegemony. Show up, break as much stuff as possible, leave
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 03 March 2023, 18:43:01
Generally speaking, isn't that kinda how things are done in BattleTech? If everyone showed up delivering killing strokes, we'd all be Davions by now.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sartris on 04 March 2023, 10:21:15
Circinus and St Ives would disagree but  xp
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 04 March 2023, 11:12:30
Circinus and St Ives would disagree but  xp

I forget sometimes that I have to specify things like “exceptions to the rule” in this nitpicky crowd.  ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Sartris on 04 March 2023, 12:08:10
I mostly pointed those two out because they were in a similar peer group as the Marians and got dead for various reasons
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: tassa_kay on 04 March 2023, 12:41:01
Trust me, I get it. My heart still weeps for my Blood Spirits.  xp
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Starfury on 04 March 2023, 16:48:13
Going by RATs, I'd probably say maybe 10% of the MoC specific regiments are Clantech at the most. 7.5% is probably a better figure since the Magistracy is far more prosperous thrn the other Periphery powers. The Pride probably has far more, perhaps as high as a third.  The other factor to consider is how well does the MHAF does against an opponent that's 90% upgraded vs the Marians' 50%?

Both factions have impressive MUL collections. Has anyone done any battles of Canopus vs the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era?
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 04 March 2023, 16:58:58
The MoC was starting to purchase clantech from the Snow Ravens in 3146, so the percent might be larger. 
With recent combat losses in the MoC and FWL, the Marians may have a smaller military than the four regiments bearing down on Alphard.  The Canopians don't have to annihilate the MHAF.  If they liberate all the slaves, there will be severe labor shortages leading to supply chain nightmares.  If they slag the military factories, it will take years longer to significantly rebuild the material part of the MHAF.  To make things even more fun, the Canopians could grab the germanium stockpiles and loot the banks for precious metals.  While they're looting the banks, they could burn all the paper currency and wreck the computer systems.  Economic depression could soon follow.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 05 March 2023, 21:52:00
Interesting the Canopians as the pirates..  I'm sure they will liberate the slaves back to home...
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 March 2023, 06:07:45
There aren't any slaves back home.  That one entry in the rulebook was errata.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 06 March 2023, 08:36:39
The MoC was starting to purchase clantech from the Snow Ravens in 3146, so the percent might be larger. 
With recent combat losses in the MoC and FWL, the Marians may have a smaller military than the four regiments bearing down on Alphard.  The Canopians don't have to annihilate the MHAF.  If they liberate all the slaves, there will be severe labor shortages leading to supply chain nightmares.  If they slag the military factories, it will take years longer to significantly rebuild the material part of the MHAF.  To make things even more fun, the Canopians could grab the germanium stockpiles and loot the banks for precious metals.  While they're looting the banks, they could burn all the paper currency and wreck the computer systems.  Economic depression could soon follow.

Tell me more, i love fantasy fanfics.... ;D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 06 March 2023, 16:46:28
 Wait and see.  >:D
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 06 March 2023, 19:34:22
I hope Big Daddy Daoshen has been generous with the latest shipments of Capellan gear to the MHAF, as I'm not sure what else could make that fight interesting. Oh! And I also hope that Sian Dragoon regiment that's operating covertly somewhere in Magistracy space gets pulled into it too, somehow.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 07 March 2023, 09:49:31
 Sian will be devoting all of its attention elsewhere, somewhat more Coreward if you will. That should include equipment of all types. They are gunning for a double annihilation and do have the forces to do it if they plan correctly.

 As for the Marians getting good arms, they should not have any trouble with that. They lost a critical Battle Armor factory, but that should not impede them in the near term.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Adacas on 07 March 2023, 10:09:15
Sian will be devoting all of its attention elsewhere, somewhat more Coreward if you will. That should include equipment of all types. They are gunning for a double annihilation and do have the forces to do it if they plan correctly.

 As for the Marians getting good arms, they should not have any trouble with that. They lost a critical Battle Armor factory, but that should not impede them in the near term.

the factory has already been retaken Marik withdrew from Illyria
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Minemech on 07 March 2023, 10:19:41
the factory has already been retaken Marik withdrew from Illyria
You are right. I got lazy and double checked the Sarna map, when I should have read the material. Keeping all that up to date is a chore for the workers there.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: Adacas on 07 March 2023, 10:33:01
You are right. I got lazy and double checked the Sarna map, when I should have read the material. Keeping all that up to date is a chore for the workers there.


The eternal fight that the Marians have to have data from our factories we still want to know what mechs the ATC builds in Addhara and what else Hadrian did since 3077

At least we already know that we made 5 SL mechs with Marian Arms in Alphard
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 07 March 2023, 17:22:22
And I also hope that Sian Dragoon regiment that's operating covertly somewhere in Magistracy space gets pulled into it too, somehow.
Be careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
Post by: jimdigris on 07 March 2023, 17:23:06

The eternal fight that the Marians have to have data from our factories we still want to know what mechs the ATC builds in Addhara and what else Hadrian did since 3077

At least we already know that we made 5 SL mechs with Marian Arms in Alphard
Maybe this should be discussed in the Marian thread.