Center Torso Cockpit?

[Black_Knyght]

I've been looking over some of the more "unusual" equipment for Battlemechs, and thought I'd get the thoughts and opinions about a few of them from the forum members here.

So, a center torso cockpit? Mounting a cockpit in the body of a Battlemech instead of the exposed head? What could be the downside of that? There MUST be one, and yet at first glance it seems like an interesting addition.

So there MUST be a catch I'm missing. Is it an over-looked asset to Battlemechs? Or, is it another lemon and not worth the trouble?

[Firesprocket]

The main benefit is that you are in a more armored part of your machine.  The detraction is that you have an increased chance to be taken out by a random critical.

[Maelwys]

They weight an extra ton over a normal cockpit, you get a +1 to all Piloting Skill rolls, and you can't eject. While you don't take pilot hits from shots hitting the CT like you do when you get hit in the head, its worth noting that due to the way damage transfers, as the fighting goes on, more and more shots are going to be heading for the CT. And with no ejection...

Admittedly, that might be more of a campaign issue rather than a simple fight, it is worth mentioning.

Also, while you'll survive the head being destroyed, its likely that your 'Mech will be so screwed up from the loss of sensors that your opponent may as well have just destroyed the 'Mech anyway.

edit
And forgot something. With the life support moved to the side torsos, you're likely to lose one at some point, and if you do, you start taking damage for ANY heat above 0 in the heat phase.
/edit

[SteelRaven]

Think we had a few topics covering this.

Torso Cockpit are the best way to protect your pilot from getting head capped by a Gauss and such. Unfortunately that's about it in game, Head caps are some what rare and many don't care enough about the pilot on a pen and paper to wast space that can be used for more weapons or armor.

Torso mounted cockpit also has more than a few built-in draw backs for game balance. Life support system is now in the side torso and your in that much more trouble if that gets hit now your sitting that much closer to the reactor. Also; you can't eject so you better know when to walk away from the battlefield (which is kind of the point of the TMC)

Last, PSR gets a +1 because your piloting inside a tight box using monitors for your bearings. Loose a sensor is like loosing a eye and becomes that much tougher.

I would recommend a TMC for a pilot you want to keep safe from a luck head cap, a commander you rather see leave a board rather than stick it out until the machine is cored like in most games.

If your a brawler, it's not for you unless your scared to death of head caps. Get a Gotterdammerung or a Stalker II for your CO/VIP and keep them at range. 

[Firesprocket]

Think we had a few topics covering this.

Indeed we have.  Found the most recent one I can remember (or at least otherwise participated in).

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50306.msg1162433#msg1162433

[Scotty]

When you lose life support, the pilot starts taking damage when you're at/above 14 heat.  Not zero.

[Maelwys]

On a normal cockpit, yes.

However, the rules for Torso-mounted cockpits on page 301 of TO states "Finally, because of the proximity to the engine, warriors using a torso-mounted cockpit suffer more sever heat effects in the event of life support damage. If a unit with a torso-mounted cockpit takes a life support critical hit, the MechWarrior suffers 1 point of damage for every turn the 'Mech overheats by 1 to 14 points, and 2 points of damage for every turn the unit overheats by 15 points or more. This MechWarrior heat effect replaces the standard MechWarrior heat effects."

I checked the errata, and didn't see anything that contradicted this?

[SteelRaven]

That's when you walk/run away vs fight it out. Your engine should have enough heat sinks to keep you safe while you retreat unless you do something foolhardy.
(All of the Gotterdammerung and Stalker II HS are in the engine) 

[cavingjan]

engine crits will be the trouble. not as much with DHS but they will slow the cool down process.

[mbear]

Think we had a few topics covering this.

Torso Cockpit are the best way to protect your pilot from getting head capped by a Gauss and such. Unfortunately that's about it in game, Head caps are some what rare and many don't care enough about the pilot on a pen and paper to wast space that can be used for more weapons or armor.

I would think that 9 points of hardened armor on the head would be a better defense, particularly if you have a reinforced structure. That's effectively 18 points of armor and 6 points of internal structure. You'd need to use the Patchwork armor rules from TacOps.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Add the armored cowl quirk?

[mbear]

Or use Armored Components to armor the cockpit.

[cray]

The two issues that always stood out to me - and made me avoid the CT cockpit - are:

1) From front/back arcs, the CT is initially 7 times as likely to be hit as the head (rolls of 7 & 2 together are 7 times as common as a 12). If you don't have 7 times the armor on the CT, then averaged over many games you're less safe.

2) All damage transfer paths lead to the center torso; none lead to the head. Once a battle gets hot and hit locations get scarce the chances of CT hits skyrocket. One lost side torso increases CT hits from 7 times that of the head to 17 (rolls of [2, 3, 4, 6, and 7] or [2, 7, 8, 10, and 11] are 17 times as likely as a 12.) A lost leg increases CT hits from 7 to 11 times that of the head.

Basically, you trade security from decapitations for higher probability of pilot death.

[mbear]

Basically, you trade security from decapitations for higher probability of pilot death.

So just like all roads lead to Rome, all damage transfers to the CT?

[JadeHellbringer]

So just like all roads lead to Rome, all damage transfers to the CT?

Well... not ALL of it. There's a reason I always have loved putting ammo in the head.  ^-^

[Cryhavok101]

I always thought using patchwork armor and putting 9 points of hardened armor on the head was the best way to protect it from head-capping, rather than torso cockpits. Personally I think torso cockpits make the pilot more vulnerable since you have to worry about floating criticals, and a lot of hits are going to strike the center torso.

[SteelRaven]

Floating crits will kill any game fast, regardless.

That said, armored cockpits benefits often outweigh torso mounted cockpits. I'm glad the BTU have the rules considering how many other giant robots use torso cockpits, actual illustrates the benefits of using your head   ;) 

[Istal_Devalis]

There are some weird corner cases in utility for the center cockpit, like if you enjoy playing with hand held weapon rules.