Scenario packs

[Light Brigade]

Hi,

recently, I wrote and organized a scenario for a BT-Con in Germany. The scenario was based on the LCAF's failed attempt to capture Theodore Kurita on Marfik during the 4th SW, and its background story was completely cannon, in fact. The scenario was a success. Since it was fun to write the scenario, I am just preparing to write another scenario. However, I also came up with an idea: I'd suggest the introduction of a new, fan-based scenario-pack series.

The involvement of the fan-base would be would have be quite a few advantages for the BT-storyline in general. For example, a fan-based scenario-pack series would provide the background for quite a few units, which are already mentioned in the BT-storyline, thus making the BT-storyline even more diversified and detailed with -by way of comparision- very little costs. Other possible scenraio packs would include the 6th Lyran Guards' Deep Raid, the battle of Alexandria during the 3rd SW, or even during the Marik civil war in 3014, or the exploits of some house or merc units for example.

However, the cannoncity of the scenario-packs should be complied and accounted for in any case.

[Frabby]

I presume you're asking about canonical scenario packs. In that case, I suppose the official answer would be "No".

Writing the scenario is the fun part. Everybody likes to do that.

But then comes the fact-checking and playtesting. This is a laborious, sometimes even tedious process. And it gets worse with each and every new publication because it has to comply with all previous canonical publications, and presumably some unpublished data behind the scenes.

Another aspect Herb once mentioned is that players and GMs are straightjacketed by more and more canonical data, just like the writers. When you want to play a Wolf's Dragoons lance in 3025 then you're limited to the detailed unit writeup from the sourcebook that breaks the unit down to each individual 'Mech and MechWarrior. You can't play your own WD lance and still comfortably pretend to be within the bounds of established canon.

I don't want to sound so negative though. Scenarios that contain little "hard data" that could conflict with other canon are fine. And we already do have the Bruderkampf scenario pack by Ulisses that I totally love - well written, well thought-out, well made. A totally fantastic game supplement. And available for free on top of that. Wow!
(And previously, Lawyers, Guns, & Money by FanPro, but it's not been made available for download again since the site was moved.)

[Charlie Tango]

There are tons of scenarios available for purchase through Battlecorps.

[DarkISI]

But if you really want to create a few scenarios and make them available to the public, I can always host stuff on the HPG Station (German or English) for you.

[Atlas3060]

I presume you're asking about canonical scenario packs. In that case, I suppose the official answer would be "No".

Writing the scenario is the fun part. Everybody likes to do that.

But then comes the fact-checking and playtesting. This is a laborious, sometimes even tedious process. And it gets worse with each and every new publication because it has to comply with all previous canonical publications, and presumably some unpublished data behind the scenes.

Another aspect Herb once mentioned is that players and GMs are straightjacketed by more and more canonical data, just like the writers. When you want to play a Wolf's Dragoons lance in 3025 then you're limited to the detailed unit writeup from the sourcebook that breaks the unit down to each individual 'Mech and MechWarrior. You can't play your own WD lance and still comfortably pretend to be within the bounds of established canon.

I don't want to sound so negative though. Scenarios that contain little "hard data" that could conflict with other canon are fine. And we already do have the Bruderkampf scenario pack by Ulisses that I totally love - well written, well thought-out, well made. A totally fantastic game supplement. And available for free on top of that. Wow!
(And previously, Lawyers, Guns, & Money by FanPro, but it's not been made available for download again since the site was moved.)

Frabby, I don't know how much more I can agree with this post.  :)
Every now and then some user here tends to jack inside my mind and post where I was going with a thought.

I'll have to learn German and read up on that scenario because it sounds fun.

This is why I selected "No", the fans can come up with wonderful ideas but they'll be fan based and non canon.

I know many others will disagree with me, due to gaming tastes, but I can't get behind precise units in a set scenario anymore.
The only exception would be tracks in the Chaos system that allow optional bonuses for bringing in star units or vehicles.

Part of the dangers in doing all these precise scenarios, other than what Frabby has illustrated, is the fact that at some point we'll need to bring in custom unknown mercenaries to fill in the gaps. I can't see CGL doing this unless it is a very unsual set of circumstances. Battlecorps tried doing Unique Mechs and fighters as a free product and that didn't last long.

There's only so many fact checkers, writers, and developers in this company. I've heard people say "oh well this will add more folks to help with stuff!" which is admirable, but then those people need to be wrangled and managed. Then those managers need someone to overview them. All of this on a company that doesn't have a lot of "full time" folks working on it.

[cavingjan]

Isn't BattleCorps still accepting submissions for scenarios? I know we haven't seen any in a while. I believe that was due to lack of interest from writers.

[Light Brigade]

I presume you're asking about canonical scenario packs. In that case, I suppose the official answer would be "No".

Writing the scenario is the fun part. Everybody likes to do that.

But then comes the fact-checking and playtesting. This is a laborious, sometimes even tedious process. And it gets worse with each and every new publication because it has to comply with all previous canonical publications, and presumably some unpublished data behind the scenes.

Another aspect Herb once mentioned is that players and GMs are straightjacketed by more and more canonical data, just like the writers. When you want to play a Wolf's Dragoons lance in 3025 then you're limited to the detailed unit writeup from the sourcebook that breaks the unit down to each individual 'Mech and MechWarrior. You can't play your own WD lance and still comfortably pretend to be within the bounds of established canon.

I disagree. It will still be less work for the line developers to check any fan-based scenario packs than to write them by themselves, and to check them anyway. Considering some canon publications like the Northwind Highlanders scenario pack, any fan-based publication couldn't be worse, too. However, a fan-based scenario series would increase the variety and ingame depth of the BT-universe. It would also increase the implementation of the BT community, something the line developers tried to do for some time, like the Monte Diablo scenario.
In addition, only Wolf's Dragoons, the Eridani Light Horse, the Waco Rangers, and Wilson's Hussars are described in detail. Except for the other scenario packs, of course. Consequently, there are plenty of freedoms for most campaigns.

I don't want to sound so negative though. Scenarios that contain little "hard data" that could conflict with other canon are fine. And we already do have the Bruderkampf scenario pack by Ulisses that I totally love - well written, well thought-out, well made. A totally fantastic game supplement. And available for free on top of that. Wow!
(And previously, Lawyers, Guns, & Money by FanPro, but it's not been made available for download again since the site was moved.)

I'll make the same proposal to Ulisses, anyway.

But if you really want to create a few scenarios and make them available to the public, I can always host stuff on the HPG Station (German or English) for you.

Schon, aber das ist halt dann doch was anderes. Mal schauen ;)

[martian]

I think that if fans create their unofficial scenarios and publish them somewhere, it's okay. We have one thread around specifically reserved for fan-made Warchest tracks, after all.

But I don't know what advantage could CGL get, if it would make such fan-created tracks or scenarios canon. I guess that legal problems are not worth some potential nebulous gains.

And to mention the Northwind Highlanders scenario pack, that thing is sixteen years old by now. Quality of today's products is significantly better.

[Light Brigade]

I think that if fans create their unofficial scenarios and publish them somewhere, it's okay. We have one thread around specifically reserved for fan-made Warchest tracks, after all.

But I don't know what advantage could CGL get, if it would make such fan-created tracks or scenarios canon. I guess that legal problems are not worth some potential nebulous gains.

In fact, that's why I originally posted the thread into the line developers forum. It isn't supposed to be a discussion thread. In addition, that's why I made it a poll.

And to mention the Northwind Highlanders scenario pack, that thing is sixteen years old by now. Quality of today's products is significantly better.

Since the Northwind Highlanders scenario pack is arguably the worst BT publication ever, that's not an achievement.

[martian]

Since the Northwind Highlanders scenario pack is arguably the worst BT publication ever, that's not an achievement.

It's a very old product created by company which sometimes was less than careful when preparing materials for publication. Since this company closed, there have been WizKids, FanPro, and CGL with Topps. Their quality management is much better and they have my almost complete trust.

I am not sure if it's still true, but the Fan Designs section was reserved for fan-made BattleMechs and CGL writers were supposed not to visit it, so CGL could avoid legal problems if some similar design was made official.
I also believe CGL is not much interested in unsolicited offers.

[cavingjan]

I am not sure if it's still true, but the Fan Designs section was reserved for fan-made BattleMechs and CGL writers were supposed not to visit it, so CGL could avoid legal problems if some similar design was made official.
I also believe CGL is not much interested in unsolicited offers.

That is still the case. Unsolicited offers are a big no-no for them.

I would also say that the resources burned to review a fan project would be more than is utilized for a regular CGL authored project. The editing alone would probably make some people cringe to be assigned it.

[ColBosch]

CGL is only interested in unsolicited pitches if they are original IP. Remember that they don't own BattleTech, just a license to produce tabletop games and rolelaying material.

Also, and this has sort of fallen out of common knowledge, there was a pretty major legal kerfuffle a while back that involved someone who'd had fan material accidentally canonized - and then removed - suing for ownership of the property. He failed, obviously, but it set a precedent.

[Kit deSummersville]

Isn't BattleCorps still accepting submissions for scenarios?

No, I was told that future scenarios would be solicited for.

[mechwarriorgarya]

Also, and this has sort of fallen out of common knowledge, there was a pretty major legal kerfuffle a while back that involved someone who'd had fan material accidentally canonized - and then removed - suing for ownership of the property. He failed, obviously, but it set a precedent.

This has to do with that whole Eridani LH thing that I've heard about right?
There was material written for a source book on the unit that got canceled but the material ended up finding its way into other published work or something like that?  ???
Apparently I knew nothing about this until half a year so ago. I'm sure details are sketchy at best as is usual for legal situations.

Certainly a situation that is best avoided at all cost. Just not worth the potential time and money lost on legal matters.

[Lorcan Nagle]

IIRC, it was that some ELH background material this one guy wrote was hosted on the fansite that eventually became classicbattletech.com, and it was still there on the page about the ELH well after FanPro took the site over.

[martian]

This has to do with that whole Eridani LH thing that I've heard about right?
There was material written for a source book on the unit that got canceled but the material ended up finding its way into other published work or something like that?  ???
Apparently I knew nothing about this until half a year so ago. I'm sure details are sketchy at best as is usual for legal situations.

Certainly a situation that is best avoided at all cost. Just not worth the potential time and money lost on legal matters.

I believe this document describes situation quite sufficiently:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3118816840722269867&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

Now you will understand why CGL usually keeps hands off unsolicited submissions. Just look what he eventually wanted.

[mechwarriorgarya]

Now you will understand why CGL usually keeps hands off unsolicited submissions. Just look what he eventually wanted.

Yup, pretty clear. Just not worth the time and money lost.

[Vanadius]

I believe this document describes situation quite sufficiently:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3118816840722269867&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

Now you will understand why CGL usually keeps hands off unsolicited submissions. Just look what he eventually wanted.

Wow.  What the hell?  That's evil.  Genuinely evil. 

[Frabby]

Wow.  What the hell?  That's evil.  Genuinely evil.

No, it's not.

The court made it quite clear that M.'s claim was without merit, and I think he waaay overreached by bringing the issue into court in the first place. Not to mention that he didn't sue for compensation but went for part ownership of the franchise.

That said, give the man some credit. I can see where he's coming from. He is/was a fanboy who held his own work dear to his heart. FASA rejected his novel submission, then told him to write a sourcebook. He complied, did a lot of work for FASA in the hopes of contributing canon material, and got rejected again. No payment, no compensation, no acknowledgement of his work, no nothing.
And then, he finds that by sloppiness (he alleged malice, but I find that hard to believe) FanPro had snuck his rejected material into canon after all, leaving him out cold. I can totally understand why he would be angry.

But, like I said, it's not something he should have pursued. Suing for part ownership was bound to backfire, he hurt himself much more in the process than FASA/FanPro had initially done.

[ColBosch]

That's not the topic here. I only mentioned it to give context to why CGL is wary of fan and unsolicited submissions.

[Hawkeye Jim]

Maybe what CGL could do is ask their regular contributers to submit a scenario or two each built around a particular unit or theme. Then they could issue them as a set of DLs. That's not unlike a multiple story setup, which they have used before.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Maybe what CGL could do is ask their regular contributers to submit a scenario or two each built around a particular unit or theme. Then they could issue them as a set of DLs. That's not unlike a multiple story setup, which they have used before.

If by 'regular contributors' you mean the writing pool, then I guess that would be the Turning Points series.  If you mean the fans, see above.

[Davion_Boy_74]

Hi,

recently, I wrote and organized a scenario for a BT-Con in Germany. The scenario was based on the LCAF's failed attempt to capture Theodore Kurita on Marfik during the 4th SW, and its background story was completely cannon, in fact. The scenario was a success. Since it was fun to write the scenario, I am just preparing to write another scenario. However, I also came up with an idea: I'd suggest the introduction of a new, fan-based scenario-pack series.

The involvement of the fan-base would be would have be quite a few advantages for the BT-storyline in general. For example, a fan-based scenario-pack series would provide the background for quite a few units, which are already mentioned in the BT-storyline, thus making the BT-storyline even more diversified and detailed with -by way of comparision- very little costs. Other possible scenraio packs would include the 6th Lyran Guards' Deep Raid, the battle of Alexandria during the 3rd SW, or even during the Marik civil war in 3014, or the exploits of some house or merc units for example.

However, the cannoncity of the scenario-packs should be complied and accounted for in any case.

Is your Scenario available for download anywhere ?, sound very interesting.

Dave.

[Light Brigade]

Is your Scenario available for download anywhere ?, sound very interesting.

Dave.

Not anymore, I'm afraid. In addition, the scenario is written in German.
The scenario depicts Theodore's attack on the conventional Steiner regiments, after the 4th Skye Rangers got lost in the DonnerBrau Forest on Marfik during the initial stages of the 4th SW. In fact, the story is canon, and mentioned in quite a few sources, including the NAIS Atlas Vol. I, the novel 'Heir to the Dragon', and the 4th SW Scenarios Volume One.
The Steiner force consists of two companies of heavy tanks, the Kurita force is mainly made of two companies of heavy 'Mechs, but also a few conventional units. The Kurita force's objective is to break through the Steiner force with more than two thirds of their initial strength. The Steiner tanks are supposed to prevent the Kurita force from achieving their objectives, of course.
Basically, the setting loosely refers to a BattleForce scenario, which was published in FASA's 4th Succession War Scenarios Volume One: A bold Prince.

If you're interested, I'll try to translate the scenario, and either send it per e-mail or post it via this forum as a pdf-file. It will take some time, of course  ;)