Author Topic: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive  (Read 21049 times)

speck

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Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« on: 06 January 2016, 22:01:34 »
See the announcement for more information. I will add new post when I have more information to post.

I will do my best to answer questions. If I don't know the answer I will compile a list to send to Mike.
« Last Edit: 06 January 2016, 23:13:50 by speck »

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #1 on: 06 January 2016, 23:10:11 »
So if I understand this correctly, prices on everything are going up slightly, the archive fee is going away, and the archives are being removed from the web store completely, but this is a temporary thing while you do the nuts and bolts of removing the fee?
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speck

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #2 on: 06 January 2016, 23:17:11 »
So if I understand this correctly, prices on everything are going up slightly, the archive fee is going away
Yes
Quote
, and the archives are being removed from the web store completely, but this is a temporary thing while you do the nuts and bolts of removing the fee?
Yes, will be available tomorrow evening with out archive fee.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #3 on: 06 January 2016, 23:19:44 »
I think this is a net good!
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #4 on: 07 January 2016, 09:27:25 »
Next week I will have some other details as well for how certain Archive SKU will be handled.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #5 on: 07 January 2016, 10:32:40 »
So once everything is settled into place, what will be the difference between archive items and non-archive items?
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speck

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #6 on: 07 January 2016, 10:36:17 »
So once everything is settled into place, what will be the difference between archive items and non-archive items?

Archive are not in distribution anymore and are considered equivalent to the Online Exclusive BT/FT items.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #7 on: 07 January 2016, 10:37:36 »
No one likes price increases, but really its the reality of buisness.  The removal of the archive fee is a welcome event, and will probably spur me to whip up a new order.   ;)
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #8 on: 07 January 2016, 12:32:37 »
So what I am reading here, is that I should get my order in before the end of the month if I want to avoid the price increase?

Sorry budget, we hardly knew ye.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #9 on: 07 January 2016, 12:40:34 »
Price increase... I get that. Doing away with the archive fee? Outstanding! Been waiting for this for months!
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #10 on: 07 January 2016, 14:09:37 »
You know I'm personally seeing it as the price increase helps the removal of the archive fee.
For that, I'm okay with this change.
Now the math for my minis purchases will go a little easier when I resume my shopping in the future.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #11 on: 07 January 2016, 14:10:18 »
Archive are not in distribution anymore and are considered equivalent to the Online Exclusive BT/FT items.
That's kind of what I was thinking, thanks. For those of us that order online, not much of a difference between archived and non-archived items.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #12 on: 07 January 2016, 18:35:14 »
That's kind of what I was thinking, thanks. For those of us that order online, not much of a difference between archived and non-archived items.

From my experience only thing is you get it in the standard package or a baggie. And if you are not reselling it, at least to me makes no difference.

speck

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #13 on: 07 January 2016, 22:13:00 »
Just a FYI, the Archive category is now available on the webstore with out the Archive fee now.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #14 on: 07 January 2016, 23:09:48 »
Nice to see the archive fee vanish.

Price increases are a concern since we are reaching Forge World pricing per mini :p  Just 1 more reason why metal minis need to die. 
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #15 on: 08 January 2016, 13:06:47 »
Excuse the ignorance but I'm new to the game. What does this mean? What are the archives?

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #16 on: 08 January 2016, 13:17:15 »
Excuse the ignorance but I'm new to the game. What does this mean? What are the archives?

When a miniature started selling poorly, they would pull it from distribution (meaning, going out to game stores) and put it in the archive.  Archived minis required an $8 fee to purchase your first one, and then each subsequent mini had no additional fees.  This put a bit of a barrier to purchasing any old minis, due to that $8 archive fee.  To make up for this, IWM would put about 6 minis on "Archive Special Return" once a month where you could get those 6 minis from the archive without paying the archive fee.  IWM also has online exclusive minis available, but these sell for normal prices and never required any archive fee.

The change is that archive minis are essentially going to become online exclusive minis, and the fee is going away.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #17 on: 08 January 2016, 16:13:40 »
Nice to see the archive fee vanish.

Price increases are a concern since we are reaching Forge World pricing per mini :p  Just 1 more reason why metal minis need to die.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #18 on: 08 January 2016, 22:42:30 »
@Speck

So, personal interest question; does this mean we may soon see an expansion of the scrapyard as well to include parts from archived models?

That would be thrilling to me. I love this feature and I only wish more parts (like ASF parts) were more widely represented...And I have this sick attraction to Ontos 3058 hulls, but really that's my own mania.
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speck

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #19 on: 08 January 2016, 23:32:03 »
@Speck

So, personal interest question; does this mean we may soon see an expansion of the scrapyard as well to include parts from archived models?

That would be thrilling to me. I love this feature and I only wish more parts (like ASF parts) were more widely represented...And I have this sick attraction to Ontos 3058 hulls, but really that's my own mania.

Short answer is yes.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #20 on: 09 January 2016, 20:02:02 »
Sounds like a win
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #21 on: 09 January 2016, 22:04:21 »

Speck and IWM,

Although I'm pleased the Archive is going away I am genuinely concerned about the price increase.  It may be totally justified from IWM's perspective but I'm already grumbling about a range of new releases that approach the $17 mark for a single mini.  We're soon to be close to $18 dollars for certain minis.  Price was the reason why I stepped away from Games Workshop minis and games. 

I love IWM's metal Battletech minis but no one should be surprised if we hear a rising call for more plastic minis.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #22 on: 10 January 2016, 09:17:22 »
@Speck

Will you include name changes to make it more clear which are original or resculpts?
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #23 on: 11 January 2016, 09:22:11 »
Speck and IWM,

Although I'm pleased the Archive is going away I am genuinely concerned about the price increase.  It may be totally justified from IWM's perspective but I'm already grumbling about a range of new releases that approach the $17 mark for a single mini.  We're soon to be close to $18 dollars for certain minis.  Price was the reason why I stepped away from Games Workshop minis and games. 

I love IWM's metal Battletech minis but no one should be surprised if we hear a rising call for more plastic minis.

Mike

$17.95 is $18 a mini. Setting a price just below a whole number is a well established, and effective means of making a price appear smaller then it really is. A nickle more or less then $18.00 is not going to effect the pocket of someone paying $18 a mini, give or take a nickle, but it may make it easier for you to say "yes" to the price.

IWM is a company that is out to make a profit, and there is nothing wrong with that. The question is how will the price increases affect IWM in the long run? How will the price increases affect the game shops that are looking to stock the game? How will it affect those of us that need to special order stuff because the game shop is unwilling to stock the game unless it sees x number of people playing it in the shops? How many people will opt not to buy from a shop that will charge them more, or cost them something such as time, and instead purchase minis from those willing to give the buyer a discount?

I have not ordered from IWM directly for years because of the shipping charges. This was reinforced by the archive fees of the minis that I wanted. The local shop's distributor does not carry the full line of minis and is heavy on the darkages stuff and light on the Jihad era and earlier, except for 3025 which I have enough of. At the same time I am dealing with the potential of new and returning players. The DA era mechs are going to be out of the reach of these players. Returning players sometimes come with the problem of having dropped out because the increasing level of tech shook things up to much for them at the time. Increased prices are unlikely to help the situation especially if the distributors that are unwilling to get heavily invested in the game see a need for greater investment while seeing reduced returns as players walk away from $18 minis.

I personally have not purchased either of those minis as I believed that the prices had already starting hitting a high that was offsetting. I have instead starting putting more into the secondary market such as ebay because
1) I can rarely get what I want off of the shop's distributor though I do make a heck of an effort to sell the minis to myself
2) Of those on the distributor's list I have a hard time accepting $15 per mini and having enough assault causes me to look for smaller mechs that are fortunately smaller in price
3) If I can get free shipping and slightly better prices then IWM on mechs that the shop's distributor does not offer then I go with that route instead of the high IWM shipping prices
4) While I am known for long term planning with people in every aspect of my life, regardless if I like it or not, I can be an impulse buyer when it comes to minis. This means that I have problems creating $100 orders with the local shop to order through IWM the minis not on the distributor's list.

I am working on becoming a psychologist, not an ecconomist, so I can only review the likely outcome of price increases on the buying habits of individuals such as myself. I am not a heavy buyer when compared to others, but I do try to buy a mini at least every other week the past 2 years. I can only see additional restraints on purchasing as prices increase since I can spend some time kicking around purchases already. Others like me will also do the same and if purchases are made it will likely be on the lower priced minis which removes some level of profitability on the higher priced minis.

Sure, anyone can read this as a complaint and dismiss it. I don't really care if someone does, but those that have an interest in how IWM is percieved and how it may be negatively affecting it's established customers who are attempting to either generate new customers or revive lapsed customers should consider what has been said. It comes down to the IP's fanbase size and purchasing power versus the production cost and desired level of profit of IWM. While IWM took one step forward they also took at least 1 step back with the archive fee going away but increasing prices that some of us are having a hard time taking before the increase. Hopefully there is a happier medium to be found.

I believe that there has been a lot of untapped profit by locking up the minis that did not sell as well with the archive fee. With the archive fee in place the sales of those minis were only made worse.

IWM shipping fees are pretty damn high. Again this locks up the minis that people want as some of us are unwilling to place $100 orders. Someone once posted some sanctimonious comments that insulted people for not wanting to save $100 to make a lump purchase of minis, which completely ignored the buying habits, wants, and budgets of individuals among many other factors that can leave an individual unable or unwilling to drop $100 at a time.

The $100 limit also affects my orders through the local game shop. The only reason to do so is to help throw a few bucks into the coffers of the shop instead of just having the order sent to my house.

If the shipping costs were reduced and coupled with the death of the archive fees that would unlock several purchases from just me. I could then purchase Baboons, Duan Gungs, Enfields, Lineholders and many more to my fusion reactor's content as the prices would be easier to take and the access would be there. It would help the local game shop see additional BT sales, which they would not really know that it was a lack of access to designs that I want. Other players will see those purchases being made which will help generate additional interest in the game on top of our group's pressence. That may get some of those players off of the fence and into the game, thus increasing sales as they wish to build up their forces.

As I  see it, there is no way for me to affect the distributor, therefore I am posting my thoughts here.

speck

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #24 on: 11 January 2016, 09:29:50 »
@Speck

Will you include name changes to make it more clear which are original or resculpts?

I am going to look at this as well. Right now it's marked on the product info page.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #25 on: 11 January 2016, 11:40:37 »
IWM is a company that is out to make a profit, and there is nothing wrong with that. The question is how will the price increases affect IWM in the long run? How will the price increases affect the game shops that are looking to stock the game? How will it affect those of us that need to special order stuff because the game shop is unwilling to stock the game unless it sees x number of people playing it in the shops?

Honestly, I do see your response as mostly a knee-jerk reaction to the announced increase, and the reason is because even at your rate of purchasing a couple minis a month, we're talking a difference of $2. Or about $30 over the course of a year. That's what? Two minis? One trip to the movies for you and your significant other (not including concessions)? A dinner out for one? What's the real bottom line cost to you? Don't get me wrong, you're completely justified in checking out where you can get the best deal, waiting for sales, etc. That's free-market economics and somewhat foolish not to do as a consumer. I do think that your questions quoted above do not play into your own situation. IWM isn't increasing their prices because they think BT players are cash cows that they can just squeeze more money out of. The long run picture is that they can increase prices a little bit to ensure that they can buy the materials they need to continue production, pay their employees, and continue paying for that work space that has allowed them to drop the archive fee... or they can not do those things. The price changes won't affect the shops. If anything, they'll see a marginally higher profit. If your true concern is your shop not stocking BT because they don't see enough players, then that's not due to the price of the minis. That's due to not having players playing in the shop.

I believe that there has been a lot of untapped profit by locking up the minis that did not sell as well with the archive fee. With the archive fee in place the sales of those minis were only made worse.

Please understand that IWM was in no way throwing away sales. Minis were archived because they sold less than six (6!) in a year. Before being archived. Do you believe that IWM was really missing out by not giving time and space to those sculpts? In total, one or two new releases would make up more sales than the total archived sales they missed out on, even assuming that none of the archived minis sold at all. And I know some of them did, because I bought some to fulfill commissions.

IWM shipping fees are pretty damn high. Again this locks up the minis that people want as some of us are unwilling to place $100 orders. Someone once posted some sanctimonious comments that insulted people for not wanting to save $100 to make a lump purchase of minis, which completely ignored the buying habits, wants, and budgets of individuals among many other factors that can leave an individual unable or unwilling to drop $100 at a time.

If shipping charges keep you from buying somewhere, then buy elsewhere. You've already said that's what you're doing. That's part of the free-market economics already mentioned. And that's cool. If you really want to get your point across to IWM though, consider writing them a polite letter explaining that you would be quite willing to purchase more directly from them if they made other shipping options available.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #26 on: 11 January 2016, 12:23:27 »
$17.95 is the cost of the most expensive minis, it is the upper bound that will not be broken by any non-Superheavy units.  $17.95 is the cost of a Malice or an Atlas III.  It is not the cost of a Blade, Uziel, Cougar, Warhammer, Gunsmith, Anubis, or any one of a hundred other 'Mechs, many of which are now available for $8 cheaper thanks to the lack of archive fee.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #27 on: 11 January 2016, 17:52:50 »
This is still better than what I have been paying up here for my FLGS recently.

Thanks Speck!
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #28 on: 11 January 2016, 20:33:23 »
Just speaking for myself, I don't mind the price increases. Enabling the removal of the archive fee is worth it to me. When I was a kid, I always though any metal minis were pricey. These days I have a better appreciation of how difficult low-volume manufacturing is, and the advantages that spun-cast metal has. Honestly, I'm amazed IWM has been able to keep prices as low as they have. I don't expect to see 10% increases every year, but given where prices are now, I don't find it unreasonable.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #29 on: 12 January 2016, 01:03:41 »
Just speaking for myself, I don't mind the price increases. Enabling the removal of the archive fee is worth it to me. When I was a kid, I always though any metal minis were pricey. These days I have a better appreciation of how difficult low-volume manufacturing is, and the advantages that spun-cast metal has. Honestly, I'm amazed IWM has been able to keep prices as low as they have. I don't expect to see 10% increases every year, but given where prices are now, I don't find it unreasonable.

+1 this.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #30 on: 12 January 2016, 07:00:15 »
I don;t know where StoneRhino is, but IWM has for NA/USA/Canada free shipping on Orders of $200 or more.

As a result, I only make orders of minimum $200.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #31 on: 12 January 2016, 07:54:46 »
I don;t know where StoneRhino is, but IWM has for NA/USA/Canada free shipping on Orders of $200 or more.

As a result, I only make orders of minimum $200.

Indeed! Just wish I could make them more often.
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And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #32 on: 12 January 2016, 09:05:50 »
Indeed! Just wish I could make them more often.

True...and with our week dollar.....a $200 order is almost $300...but with no shipping....
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #33 on: 12 January 2016, 12:10:01 »
And that's why I'll curb my spending for the next year at least.  :-\ :'( :(

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #34 on: 12 January 2016, 14:04:13 »
I just wish there was the sales like before with Small Business Saturday. I still would of made my $200+ order, just would of got more stuff.

Now if we can see some more fan/custom/online miniatures that would of been great.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #35 on: 12 January 2016, 16:12:50 »
True...and with our week dollar.....a $200 order is almost $300...but with no shipping....

Guh! Do not remind me!

I hate Canada for buying *anything* There are like a dozen things I'll ever buy which are better to buy in Canada and the rest I have to buy online and watch my dollar depreciate in real time :(
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These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
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And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #36 on: 12 January 2016, 18:07:53 »
Guh! Do not remind me!

I hate Canada for buying *anything* There are like a dozen things I'll ever buy which are better to buy in Canada and the rest I have to buy online and watch my dollar depreciate in real time :(

Blame the week OIL market...back in 2010'ish we had such a strong dollar....miss those days  :'(
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #37 on: 12 January 2016, 20:28:52 »
You Canadian cousins have nothing to complain about, you should try the Lil' Aussie Battler (AU$) which was sitting at US$1.10 two years ago, currently it is buying US$0.70. However, I still do not complain because I remember travelling overseas back in the late-90s when it would only get you US$0.49.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #38 on: 13 January 2016, 20:44:30 »
Thank you for doing away with the archive fee. That will make it lots easier to fill out the odd bits I want.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #39 on: 14 January 2016, 03:19:24 »
People can always hit up B&VTraders for bits, or Aries Games & Miniatures for bits and newer minis, including the OE and Archived minis.    8)  Granted, Most of the bits I got from B&VTraders were either OOP or Unseen, but some were for minis still in production.  Either way, BOTH businesses are GREAT to deal with, and Both also have Very Reasonable shipping.  I live in the US though, so I don't know how either one is with overseas/accross the border shipping, though I'm sure they're just as reasonable.   O0
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #40 on: 14 January 2016, 03:21:32 »
You Canadian cousins have nothing to complain about, you should try the Lil' Aussie Battler (AU$) which was sitting at US$1.10 two years ago, currently it is buying US$0.70. However, I still do not complain because I remember travelling overseas back in the late-90s when it would only get you US$0.49.

I was actualy in the air when the Aussie bleeder dropped from about 65 to 49 cents. My business budget devalued by 33% while I slept ...
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #41 on: 14 January 2016, 07:35:11 »
I was actualy in the air when the Aussie bleeder dropped from about 65 to 49 cents. My business budget devalued by 33% while I slept ...
More like 25% if I'm doing my math right, but still a huge hit.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #42 on: 14 January 2016, 08:52:45 »
You Canadian cousins have nothing to complain about, you should try the Lil' Aussie Battler (AU$) which was sitting at US$1.10 two years ago, currently it is buying US$0.70. However, I still do not complain because I remember travelling overseas back in the late-90s when it would only get you US$0.49.

We dipped below US$0.70 this week and scary part is there's forecasters/analysts predicting down to US$0.59 in the future for us Canadians. (For reference the CDN$ has NEVER been that low!)

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #43 on: 14 January 2016, 10:17:38 »
Yup! Even the prices of fresh food is becoming troublesome. Even with a lot of new exciting models or books, I won't be able to do more than participate on this forum for the foreseeable future.  :-\ :'( :-\

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #44 on: 14 January 2016, 12:38:28 »
Yup, if it drops a lot more, I doubt I'll be doing GenCon this year, which sux.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #45 on: 14 January 2016, 23:11:55 »
It means to me I'll be buying less and less often...but never again will I buy metal locally; the markup is insane. This really futz's with my poirject to find the shipping sweetspot for Aries though; where the SH is most economical for the least number of minis.

Edit: speaking once again about our dismal dollar. The archive thing remains awesome.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #46 on: 14 January 2016, 23:15:55 »
Yup! Even the prices of fresh food is becoming troublesome. Even with a lot of new exciting models or books, I won't be able to do more than participate on this forum for the foreseeable future.  :-\ :'( :-\

Man, you're going to be pissed about the upcoming forum fees...

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #47 on: 15 January 2016, 04:56:10 »
Man, you're going to be pissed about the upcoming forum fees...

(kidding!)

 ;D   ;D
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

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qc mech3

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #48 on: 15 January 2016, 08:17:24 »
 :o :o :o [AAAH] [AAAH] [AAAH] [AAAH]

...

 ;D ;D

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #49 on: 15 January 2016, 15:56:22 »
Man, you're going to be pissed about the upcoming forum fees...

(kidding!)

Proceeds go to the Moderator Mental Health Initiative.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #50 on: 15 January 2016, 16:27:42 »
Proceeds go to the Moderator Metal Health Initiative.

Come now, isn't this REALLY what you meant?  ???

 ;D
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

Something to bear in Mind. Defending the BT IP is Frowned upon here.

Remember: Humor is NOT Tolerated here. Have a Nice Day!

Hey! Can't a guy get any Privacy around here!

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #51 on: 15 January 2016, 18:06:29 »
Proceeds go to the Moderator Mental Health Initiative.

Why did I read that first time as moderator HENTAI Health Initiative.  ::)
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RoundTop

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #52 on: 15 January 2016, 18:14:48 »
NeonKnight,

No worries. I'm heading to Gen con to represent Vancouver this year on the demo team.  All my friends bailed on going this year.

And yeah I'm fine with the increased prices and archive fee change. Price of pewter has gone up, as has the cost of doing business.

As for shipping pain: ever felt how much the minis weigh? That is why it costs so much to ship, as weight is more important than size.
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #53 on: 15 January 2016, 18:17:17 »
All my friends bailed on going this year.

Time to find new friends?   ???

 ;D
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

Something to bear in Mind. Defending the BT IP is Frowned upon here.

Remember: Humor is NOT Tolerated here. Have a Nice Day!

Hey! Can't a guy get any Privacy around here!

Legion

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #54 on: 18 January 2016, 22:48:51 »
As for shipping pain: ever felt how much the minis weigh? That is why it costs so much to ship, as weight is more important than size.

Yeah, not sure how you 'Mericans feel about the shipping, but I do find IWM's shipping to Canada to be about on par with anything else I try to buy online from the States.

Which is to say, annoyingly expensive at the best of times, let alone with the current exchange rate.  :)

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #55 on: 22 January 2016, 13:55:43 »
Yeah, not sure how you 'Mericans feel about the shipping, but I do find IWM's shipping to Canada to be about on par with anything else I try to buy online from the States.

Which is to say, annoyingly expensive at the best of times, let alone with the current exchange rate.  :)

There is a simple answer.  Go to a convention in the USA, meet someone, court them, marry them, import them to Canada, ship to their parent's place just across the border.  Easier than dealing with international shipping.   At least that is what I did.

Now her parents complain about being a mailbox for us and our friends... and her sister, who lives across town from them, but finds it easier to ship to them.
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
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Atlas3060

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #56 on: 22 January 2016, 15:26:15 »
Proceeds go to the Moderator Mental Health Initiative.
So that's what we call the bottles of whiskey and aspirin in the cupboard?
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #57 on: 18 February 2016, 15:55:34 »
The  price increase are in, some are more then the 10% increase.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #58 on: 04 March 2016, 03:15:11 »
Still better than the prices for warhammer 40k, but some others for the same size/detail are cheaper. Meh... I just wish CGL would do more of the 3025 plastics. I like to buy both but most times I can only afford plastics. Within the US USPS flat rate might work better. Packaged right you could easily get a ton of minis in one of the cheaper boxes. Might work for international but I haven't checked into it.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #59 on: 05 March 2016, 09:46:17 »
@ Speck  Please don´t think about plastic. I would stop collecting minis if they are made out of cheap (and yes even more expensive is cheap) plastic. I need the weight in my hand. I would like to get the old lead figurines.
Plastic = no money from me.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #60 on: 05 March 2016, 11:59:33 »
You do know that IWM has little to no part in the plastics, right? All the ones we've gotten lately have been all Catalyst.
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GRUD

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #61 on: 06 March 2016, 07:02:50 »
You do know that IWM has little to no part in the plastics, right? All the ones we've gotten lately have been all Catalyst.

Yet we still see people posting, wanting IWM to go under by switching to plastics. 
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

Something to bear in Mind. Defending the BT IP is Frowned upon here.

Remember: Humor is NOT Tolerated here. Have a Nice Day!

Hey! Can't a guy get any Privacy around here!

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #62 on: 06 March 2016, 13:40:53 »
Yet we still see people posting, wanting IWM to go under by switching to plastics.

Inevitably, it's going to happen, unless the economics change around enough that metal becomes more viable again. As it; it's a march towards pricing metal wargaming minis out of the market.

Every time the prices have to hike, and I know they have to; a few more fans decide they have enough metal crack, a few more diehards find it easier to choose *not to* buy that new release and a few more potential players decide the game is too expensive to get into.

Thankfully, we have IWM as true supporters of the game, doing all they can and Games Workshop making everyone else look like saints by comparison.

Rain on the plastics if you wish and by all means; have your opinion; it is a valid one, but the AS boxed sets are a great draw for the game for new players.

I only wish I could mix and match my own lances and order them from Battlecorps, or whatever.
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GRUD

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #63 on: 06 March 2016, 19:12:55 »
I don't "Hate" the plastics, as those that like them seem to Hate the Metal minis.  I can simply see the REALITY that IWM switching to all plastics would Bankrupt them rather than Strengthening them.  I've got every box set back to BattleDroids, and I agree that the minis in the latest one DO look Very Nice.  However, even though I'm more of a Collector than a painter or player, I still prefer the heft and detail of the Metal minis.  I'm not throwing away or selling my plastics, but I"m not buying the AS Lance Packs either.  I'm actually FINE with the two co-existing!  It seems to ME that more people in the "Plastics Camp" want all the Metal minis to go away, than those in the "Metal Camp" want to see the halt of plastics.   :-\
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

Something to bear in Mind. Defending the BT IP is Frowned upon here.

Remember: Humor is NOT Tolerated here. Have a Nice Day!

Hey! Can't a guy get any Privacy around here!

NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #64 on: 06 March 2016, 19:47:06 »
I don't "Hate" the plastics, as those that like them seem to Hate the Metal minis.  **SNIP** It seems to ME that more people in the "Plastics Camp" want all the Metal minis to go away, than those in the "Metal Camp" want to see the halt of plastics.   :-\

Well...put me in the I Like Plastic, I Like metal camp. Personally, I DON'T care, as long as I can get it.

Example, I wanted/needed a couple of ocelot minis for a game, but they were prior to this month, and ARCHIVE mini, and (again, prior to recently) with an archive fee of +$8 to get the mini meant, yeah, not gonna pay $12 or so for the mini PLUS $8 to have the privilege to get the mini.

Even now, with the archive fee removed, it would still mean a 2 month wait to get the mini, so I need to start looking months in advance to plan out games to ensure I have the mini.

If Plastics means faster turn-around time, etc to get a mini, OK, but as far as what medium they are built in? Don't care, they could be carved, decorative Bathroom Soap for all I car, as long as they are easy to get my hands on.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #65 on: 06 March 2016, 20:17:09 »
Plastics mean up-front even more delays in getting minis. Short form:

- metals are relatively quick up-front (a couple of months is relatively quick), relatively low setup costs (order of $1K or so), higher production costs.
- plastics are longer up-front, with high initial setup costs ($10K-$100K, depending). Once paid, though, production costs are low, but you then have to recoup those massive up-front costs.

IWM specialise in making metal minis, and do more of their business producing for other companies (including many other game companies). Note that Bones (Reaper's substitute for metal) requires plastics-type up-front costs also.

W.
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* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #66 on: 07 March 2016, 15:51:40 »
The reason why is cost and volume.

http://www.core77.com/posts/24419/Production-Methods-Spin-Casting-a-Low-Cost-Low-Run-Alternative-to-Injection-Molding

Basically: Injection molded plastic with a high detail (requiring better molds and plastics) costs a LOT in terms of the molds and machines needed for it.

Spin-cast pewter (what IWM does) is much cheaper (by a substantial amount) for low run figures and machines needed.

Basically (numbers are somewhat made up):

Plastic:
Mold: $10,000
Machinery to use the mold: $100,000
Cost per unit in plastic: $0.20

Pewter:
Mold: $300
Machinery to use the mold: $10,000
Cost per unit in metal: $5

So you can see that the more you make, the cheaper plastic gets, but it has a high initial startup cost. That is why when CGL has made plastic, a) it gets done in China (machinery used for numerous things), and b) it is limited designs that don't have a lot of complex parts.

This is also why IWM doesn't do plastics. Look at the sponsor a mech thread... with something like $400 they are willing to make a design. They can break even on the mold within a fairly small time frame, even if they only sell a couple hundred. For plastic to make sense you have to be in the 1,000s figures.

Anyways, hopefully this provides some insight.

No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #67 on: 07 March 2016, 20:50:14 »
THANK YOU to both worktroll and RoundTop!  O0


Now to get that information out to everyone that insists that plastics are the way that IWM "MUST" go to for the future.  ::)
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

Something to bear in Mind. Defending the BT IP is Frowned upon here.

Remember: Humor is NOT Tolerated here. Have a Nice Day!

Hey! Can't a guy get any Privacy around here!

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #68 on: 08 March 2016, 01:28:57 »
Inevitably, it's going to happen, unless the economics change around enough that metal becomes more viable again. As it; it's a march towards pricing metal wargaming minis out of the market.

Every time the prices have to hike, and I know they have to; a few more fans decide they have enough metal crack, a few more diehards find it easier to choose *not to* buy that new release and a few more potential players decide the game is too expensive to get into.

Thankfully, we have IWM as true supporters of the game, doing all they can and Games Workshop making everyone else look like saints by comparison.

Rain on the plastics if you wish and by all means; have your opinion; it is a valid one, but the AS boxed sets are a great draw for the game for new players.

I only wish I could mix and match my own lances and order them from Battlecorps, or whatever.

I think my points are all still pretty valid.

I'm actually aware that IWM doesn't do the plastics and I actually quite like metal.
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And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

pheonixstorm

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #69 on: 08 March 2016, 02:16:32 »
Basically (numbers are somewhat made up):

Plastic:
Mold: $10,000
Machinery to use the mold: $100,000
Cost per unit in plastic: $0.20

Pewter:
Mold: $300
Machinery to use the mold: $10,000
Cost per unit in metal: $5

While the pewter costs may be fairly accurate the cost for plastics is more on the high end.

The injection machine could be anywhere between 20-250k or more. It really depends on the machine needed and how automated you want the entire process. This goes for the mold as well. The cost of the mold itself can vary widely as well. I remember at a plastics company I temped at the molds cost between 2k-25k depending on size and complexity.

Another factor is how much the mold will create. For BT minis like those from the intro box I am pretty sure the entire box can be done with a single mold. So based on that, and that it is probably automated, you can figure one run roughly every 5-10 minutes. Run for a day (and no mishaps) gets you 144 box sets worth of minis per day.

For the most basic setup I would say the statup could be somewhere around 30-40k for machine and mold. But then... where do you put such a machine. For those who haven't seen one they can be the size of a compact car or a semi. Does IWM even have the space for one?

Upside though? One machine many molds. New 3D sculpt of a hot design? Mold it and run for a few days then switch back to a regular production mold with 24-96 unique designs.

If IWM decide to go with the cheapest machine/mold it would have to be a mold with the highest volume minis of ALL their designs, not just BT to work. Then again, with out any type of sales figures for their top minis (BT or otherwise) its hard to even speculate if it is viable.

cavingjan

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #70 on: 08 March 2016, 07:14:43 »
Items that were in the archive were there because they sold less than 6 per year.

Plastics can work but there would need to be a fundamental change in the number of different minis made.

sadlerbw

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #71 on: 08 March 2016, 10:49:38 »
I think that 3D printing may eventually provide some interesting options for IWM, but currently the price of machines that would give similar resolution to the casting process and materials costs probably don't make sense. It might eventually provide a way to deal with 'archived' minis by offering them as on-demand prints rather than keeping a stock or having to run another set of casts when you run out of pieces. However, I don't think we are all that close to that being an option yet given the price you pay for the kind of detail we can get with cast metal.

In general, I like plastic. The lighter weight seems to make the more resistant to damage when being dropped. They are easier to cut up and modify. You can get away with much less pinning, which I despise. The weight of metal feels nice, but I'm totally fine with using plastic instead. However, with the huge variety of units available, I don't see plastic taking over any time soon.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I put in my first order for a pile of archived stuff last week. There is a pile of classic Davion aero, 3055/3060 IS mechs and some classic omnis headed my way soon. Now all I have to do is remember to put the stupid feet on the right way around when the Nova gets here. I always seem to get those things on backwards!

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #72 on: 08 March 2016, 12:50:22 »
Items that were in the archive were there because they sold less than 6 per year.

Plastics can work but there would need to be a fundamental change in the number of different minis made.

I have heard this, but I think it must be six times per year. I bought eight Fox Corvettes myself a couple months before it went into archive, so it is not just six per year. (It had not been announced it was going either)

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #73 on: 08 March 2016, 14:08:47 »
That wouldn't surprise me either. I have no doubt that some of our minis don't break the 1000 unit mark. Others will sell extremely well.

In a perfect world, we would probably only have a few omni chassis and different arms/weapons to go on them and plastics would not only be viable but preferred. In a perfect world, we also would have everything under a single company.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #74 on: 08 March 2016, 20:53:38 »
In general, I like plastic. ... They are easier to cut up and modify.

Oh great Ghu yes! I reposed a plastic Charger - 3 minutes. A Dragon - moved both arms, made one leg in motion, torso twisted - in five. Heck, I'd never try gouging the AC barrel out of a metal Hunchback. Etc, etc, etc.

If they just had a few more light-end 'Mechs in the lance packs, I'd be in heaven. Buy the plastics for bulk, then the metals for more rare designs. As it is, I do worry about recon lances made up of Clints, Assassins, Hermes IIs, and Cicadas ;)
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #75 on: 09 March 2016, 02:38:43 »
I've always wondered how many mech minis are sold every year.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #76 on: 09 March 2016, 09:26:58 »
Oh great Ghu yes! I reposed a plastic Charger - 3 minutes. A Dragon - moved both arms, made one leg in motion, torso twisted - in five. Heck, I'd never try gouging the AC barrel out of a metal Hunchback. Etc, etc, etc.

If they just had a few more light-end 'Mechs in the lance packs, I'd be in heaven. Buy the plastics for bulk, then the metals for more rare designs. As it is, I do worry about recon lances made up of Clints, Assassins, Hermes IIs, and Cicadas ;)

You're suggesting a pack made up of, say, (once the new sculpts are out) Wasps, Stingers, Locusts, and... er, something else along those lines?
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But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #77 on: 09 March 2016, 09:38:49 »
Valk?

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #78 on: 09 March 2016, 10:25:22 »
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #79 on: 09 March 2016, 11:18:13 »
How about the "You can't sue us anymore HG" pack.

Stinger, Wasp, Pheonix Hawk, Archer

:)
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #80 on: 09 March 2016, 15:17:39 »
No that would be Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, P. Hawk (or Ostscout) for a light pack.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #81 on: 09 March 2016, 16:42:02 »
You're suggesting a pack made up of, say, (once the new sculpts are out) Wasps, Stingers, Locusts, and... er, something else along those lines?

Oh great Ghu yes. Remember the days where weight ratios used to be 30% light, 40% medium, 20% heavy, 10% assault? An average company should then be 3-4 light, 4-5 medium, 2-3 heavy and 1-2 assault. As it is, I end up with 1-2 light, 4-5 medium, 4-5 heavy and 2-3 assaults when basing off the plastics for my company builds. I've been lucky enough to have enough 3rd Ed plastics to bulk up my Bug Mech ratios, but otherwise I end up using my hobby budget to bulk up the low end usually.

Admittedly, in classic 1x2 map play there's not much point fielding the average light 'Mech unless it's a 35-tonner. But
a) I'm one of those weird people who builds units for in-universe flavour, and
b) Alpha Strike suddenly gives lights a reason to be played again.

All IMHO, of course; and like I keep saying, the ease of reposing & modding plastics is (and I use this after consideration) divine!

What I don't want to see is a "reprint" of the old FASA lance packs - Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk & Rifleman. I'd cope with Stinger, Wasp, Locust & Phoenix Hawk, but yes getting a  Valkyrie back out there would be wonderful. I think we can let the Ostscout stay a specialised unit in metal ;)
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #82 on: 09 March 2016, 16:44:55 »
How about the "You can't sue us anymore HG" pack.

Stinger, Wasp, Pheonix Hawk, Archer

:)

Followed quickly by the "Bugger off HG" Pack, with a Marauder, Warhammer, Crusader and Rifleman.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #83 on: 09 March 2016, 20:42:52 »
Followed by the "I keels it wit my battleship" pack of two Marauder IIs and two Longbows

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #84 on: 09 March 2016, 22:19:12 »
How about the "You can't sue us anymore HG" pack.

Stinger, Wasp, Pheonix Hawk, Archer

:)

Followed quickly by the "Bugger off HG" Pack, with a Marauder, Warhammer, Crusader and Rifleman.

I love it.

If this is not canonised by CGL and/or IWM, may I please have your permission to use these ideas in my ebay store for unofficial lance pack offerings?  >:D
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #85 on: 09 March 2016, 22:57:06 »
May I suggest not deliberately antagonizing a company that, despite popular fan perception, has never actually done anything malicious toward BattleTech? O:-)
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #86 on: 10 March 2016, 03:30:59 »
I now have a vision of 8 mechs flipping the bird at once.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #87 on: 10 March 2016, 11:04:18 »
I love it.

If this is not canonised by CGL and/or IWM, may I please have your permission to use these ideas in my ebay store for unofficial lance pack offerings?  >:D

You don't need my permission to stick it to HG, just make sure to twist the knife when you do it!

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #88 on: 10 March 2016, 12:22:55 »
May I suggest not deliberately antagonizing a company that, despite popular fan perception, has never actually done anything malicious toward BattleTech? O:-)

Plus, a wargamer should be able to recognize which hills are worth dying on, and which may not be.

Negative marketing is usually not a plus for anyone, anyway. I'd prefer something like a "Nasty's Back!" logo with Wolf's Dragoons & a Black Widow  on a lance of iconic 'Mechs.

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #89 on: 10 March 2016, 14:24:27 »
Bugs!

"The only good bug is a dead bug"
Stinger, Wasp, Locust, Exterminator

Birds!

Pheonix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Falconer

Demons!

Cerberus, Yen lo Wang, Akuma, Crusader

Demigods!

Orion, Hercules, Perseus, Archer
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #90 on: 10 March 2016, 15:52:00 »
Archer/Crusader/Trebuchet/Whitworth

"Your AMS Sucks" pack.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

RoundTop

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #91 on: 10 March 2016, 17:37:16 »
Archer/Crusader/Trebuchet/Whitworth

"Your AMS Sucks" pack.

Komodo lance says hello. (2xAMS on each, along with 10 medium lasers, ECM, and TAG)

for 45t and going 5/8/5 it is a great hunter.
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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #92 on: 10 March 2016, 19:33:37 »
Demons!

Cerberus, Yen lo Wang, Akuma, Crusader

Yen Lo Wang may be coming in metal sooner than you think...

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #93 on: 10 March 2016, 19:49:51 »
Infantry special?
Archer, Longbow, Rifleman, Warhammer

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #94 on: 11 March 2016, 08:48:36 »
Komodo lance says hello. (2xAMS on each, along with 10 medium lasers, ECM, and TAG)

for 45t and going 5/8/5 it is a great hunter.

Preaching to the choir, I've been using one in the Baltimore-area montly Solaris events for a while now.  O0

(Though it's being sold in favor of something new and special this month...  }:) )
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

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Re: Upcoming Price Increase & Changes to Archive
« Reply #95 on: 12 March 2016, 00:39:14 »
Yen Lo Wang may be coming in metal sooner than you think...

They had a RPUK sculpt years ago, but it is OOP now.   :'(
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

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