Author Topic: Tell me about: The Sagittaire  (Read 17925 times)

Getz

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Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« on: 11 September 2013, 17:17:58 »
So, I'm looking for a 3/5/3 assault mech to go with my two Marauder IIs and Highlander - but rather and do the obvious and grab a Pillager or Gunslinger, I thought a Sagittaire would be an interesting alternative.  Thing is, I've never used one, or even anything much like one.  The jump jets/pulse laser/tarcomp combo is dead nasty on mech like the Black Python but without the benefit of clan pulse laser tech or lots of speed I'd imagine it's a rather different kettle of fish.

Any thoughts on the Sagittaire?  It certainly looks cool on the old cover art for TRO 3067...

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iampoch

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #1 on: 11 September 2013, 17:57:31 »
It's a beast! But it needs to be properly supported by faster Mechs. I ran it through MegaMek once with an Atlas AS8-D, Falconer 8R, and a fast mech that I no longer recall. It performed admirably well and became backstabber #2 when it finally got in range.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #2 on: 11 September 2013, 18:12:55 »
Well, you got Options.
You could just take a 10X.
Though with the ER PPC, you got some accurate fire at good ranges.
Firing the PPC together with the dual LPLs will exceed your heat capacity by just one.
Then you can use the forward-mounted MPLs in close, leaving out the ERPPC.
Allows you cool off a bit, or jump.
The machine is packed to the brim, so you won't be able to do any fancy modifications;
Even if you had access to X-Pulse Lasers, you plain don't have the heat capacity for them.
Of course you could also use the 9D variant, but your other mech choices don't make the most of the options that'd open up.

It's probably best to use it in cities, like it's meant to be used.
It has an XL engine, but no explosive ammo, and plenty of crits; It barely has any place without them, and it can stand to lose a third of it's weapons without really dropping significantly in firepower.
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Diablo48

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #3 on: 11 September 2013, 18:20:05 »
I have never used it, but the stats look solid and it is beautiful enough to be worth bringing to the table even if it is not the ideal unit for your strategy.  Just bear in mind that it is a bit light on ranged firepower to it might be best either on a map with short lines of sight or as a bodyguard element for a primarily long range formation.


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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #4 on: 11 September 2013, 18:29:41 »
It does suffer from range issues and can attract a lot of long range attention on it's way across, but it can be pretty deadly in close.  Just have to watch out for being out maneuvered or loosing all of your armor on the way in.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #5 on: 11 September 2013, 19:56:01 »
It's a great bodyguard for a Fire Lance.  Of course, it better be a pretty powerful group to be worth the expense of a Sagittaire as opposed to a Victor or something.
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Nightsong

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #6 on: 12 September 2013, 02:48:44 »
Rather like the SGR despite it's XL engine though I do imagine you could 'downgrade' to a light by dropping the rearfiring lasers. If you wanted, you use the freed up space to give it TSM, make it an even nastier urban brawler with one hell of a kick. Yes, the 10X does the engine swap, but loses most of its punch in the process, and relies on blakist salvage.

As for the canon variants, I hadn't seen them before. According to Sarna's posting of them, the 9D gives the risk of ammunition, but the C3 rig puts it in a decent position to stay at range now that it has more guns that can hit from longer than 10 hexes away, and I've always had a fondness for LB-X ACs. The 10X version, however... I don't want to like it because of it packing Blaketech, but the mobility and Light engine are keeping me from dismissing it out of hand. The Light PPCs are kinda dubious in comparison to the reach out and slap you of the ER PPC, but quad MVSPLs, despite giving me the crawls of FanaTech, are a case of some serious hurting up close, which the 5 IJJ could get you in short order.

Kidd

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #7 on: 12 September 2013, 03:58:05 »
The moment I saw the Sagg on the cover of TRO:3067 and saw its stats, I wanted to use it.

However, I've found that it's a blunt instrument - get in close (5-6 hexes) and unleash. The Sagg lacks the flexibility of other Assaults (no critseeking, alternate munitions, etc.) like the Atlas and the consistent damage output of the Devastator or Nightstar. Beyond LPL range it barely throws more damage than some light Mechs, and one can't use aimed shots with the pulse lasers.

Once up close though, the jump jets allow the Sagg to push up the TNs which its tarcomp+pulse armament can well compensate for, and allows it to leap into an enemy's rear/weakened arcs.

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #8 on: 12 September 2013, 05:39:57 »
Totally agree with Kidd, its a blunt instrument and a close range knife fighter.  I used one on a city map and it was glorious, I was especially cruel and teamed it up with a Berzerker (standard) against some Clan forces.  Managed to scissor a Warhawk between them, had the Sag infront just blazing away whilst the 'zerker MASCed and ran up behind him.  20 point hatchet right into the spine...

But outside of a comfort zone with lots of cover the Sag's quite a juicy target, its not fast and its PPC is not enough to discourage people sniping at it at long range.
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Kojak

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #9 on: 12 September 2013, 07:01:45 »
The Sagittaire is a precision weapon. Use it in urban, mountainous or heavy forest terrain and it will cut a horrific swath through your opponent; use it in almost any other environment and it will get ganked by units half its size.


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Getz

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #10 on: 12 September 2013, 07:21:48 »
Well, here's a bit of context.  Overall I have plenty of medium and heavy cavalry forces to play at maneuver warfare with, so I thought I could do with a proper hammer and anvil force for set piece work.  I already have the anvil (an Atlas, two Awesomes and a Stalker) - this lance is meant to be the hammer.

The rest of the lance are a MAD-4S, a MAD-5A and an HGN-732.  This gives me plently of mid and long ranged firepower, but I felt I was lacking crunch up close.  The purpose of the lance is to aggressively (if slowly) close on objectives the enemy feels compelled to defend.  The MADs focus on fighting in the mid range bracket while the Sagittaire either closes for the kill or bodyguards it's friends if the enemy gets aggressive. Notionally the Highlander provides overwatch but it's flexible enough to do whatever job I need it to.

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Kojak

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #11 on: 12 September 2013, 07:48:36 »
Honestly, I'd recommend an Emperor. It can function just as well as a bodyguard without being neutered outside of six hexes. Plus the LBXs are great for tank/VTOL/ASF-swatting duty.


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Getz

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #12 on: 12 September 2013, 07:55:48 »
Yeah, but the Emperor mini looks like puke.

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Kidd

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #13 on: 12 September 2013, 09:58:55 »
Well, here's a bit of context.  Overall I have plenty of medium and heavy cavalry forces to play at maneuver warfare with, so I thought I could do with a proper hammer and anvil force for set piece work.  I already have the anvil (an Atlas, two Awesomes and a Stalker) - this lance is meant to be the hammer.

The rest of the lance are a MAD-4S, a MAD-5A and an HGN-732.  This gives me plently of mid and long ranged firepower, but I felt I was lacking crunch up close.  The purpose of the lance is to aggressively (if slowly) close on objectives the enemy feels compelled to defend.  The MADs focus on fighting in the mid range bracket while the Sagittaire either closes for the kill or bodyguards it's friends if the enemy gets aggressive. Notionally the Highlander provides overwatch but it's flexible enough to do whatever job I need it to.
The Sagg's XL engine also makes it a little fragile for hammer work. I suggest the AS8-D Atlas, which is a vicious hammer. If you don't want a second Atlas then replace the anvil Atlas with a Devastator or Nightstar.
« Last Edit: 12 September 2013, 10:02:46 by Kidd »

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #14 on: 12 September 2013, 10:05:02 »
But none of those jump.
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Getz

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #15 on: 12 September 2013, 10:12:57 »
The Sagg's XL engine also makes it a little fragile for hammer work. I suggest the AS8-D Atlas, which is a vicious hammer. If you don't want a second Atlas then replace the anvil Atlas with a Devastator or Nightstar.

Sadly, the Anvil isn't up for modification as I already own all those models - besides while the Devestator and Nightstar are great mechs, they're also kinda dull.

If I were to take anything instead of the Sagittaire, it would have to have jump capability.

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Dragon Cat

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #16 on: 12 September 2013, 10:20:47 »
Gretz what Mech's in your avatar? I can't place it

Personally I love the Saggitaire in three places, cities, hills/places with plenty trees and rivers.  Walking this thing down the river as you blast away with pulse laser blast makes its very nasty.  The XL does discount slightly but it's got pretty much max armour and as previously noted no troublesome ammo
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

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Getz

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #17 on: 12 September 2013, 10:26:28 »
Gretz what Mech's in your avatar? I can't place it

It's a Black Lanner, although it doesn't look much like the TRO art if you ask me.  I chose it because it's in the same colours as my Mech collection and looks like one of my favourite custom designs.

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Kidd

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #18 on: 12 September 2013, 10:35:13 »
Sadly, the Anvil isn't up for modification as I already own all those models - besides while the Devestator and Nightstar are great mechs, they're also kinda dull.

If I were to take anything instead of the Sagittaire, it would have to have jump capability.
Then given your parameters you can't go far wrong with the Sag.

LastChanceCav

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #19 on: 12 September 2013, 14:08:52 »
I've only used the Sag a few times. When you have long sight lines, big maps, and room to maneuver it really suffers. As others have mentioned though, any area when sight lines are reduced or terrain is restrictive it is an absolute beast. IS LPLs and MPLs may not be scary in a vacuum, but used en mass at short range with the added accuracy of the TC they are nasty. The ER PPC tied to the TC is also great for making aimed shots at weak spots opened up by pulse laser spam, punching out enemies without having to wear them down.

Cheers,
LCC
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Wrangler

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #20 on: 13 September 2013, 21:34:43 »
The Sag is nice machine, though the 'Mech is mighty slow though.

Its beast in combat, though from its weapons mix of the standard model its more for urban combat or close-in combat if anything can be applied to what role it plays.

My favor version of this thing, is a fluff variant mentioned in the MWDA novel, Wolf Hunters.  The commander of the merc unit,  Jamison's Juggernauts pilots a stripped version of the Sag which is described in enough detail to be replicated in a game design program like Heavy Metal Pro.  All of the advanced weaponry and equipment is stripped out of this thing, its armed strictly with Succession Wars era technology.   Back in the old Forums, i asked Kevin Kevinly, if what i had came up with was what he intended.  He had said yes.   XL Engine is swapped out for regular model of the same size, double heatsinks are 32 single heat sinks.  Its armed with single PPC, single Large Laser and five medium lasers with the fifth mounted rear ward.

Its interesting beast, may not win awards but hey.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #21 on: 13 September 2013, 22:23:34 »
I remember the stripped version I was always tempted to go the other way Variable Pulse Lasers never got around to it though - the 'IIC' version I tried was truly scary though exchanging everything with Clan tech created a true nightmare I had lots of fun with a gaming group with that Mech
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

LastChanceCav

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #22 on: 13 September 2013, 22:23:57 »
I always thought an intro tech Sag would look like this -> http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,9590.msg227409.html#msg227409

I also wish there was a canon LFE or SFE variant that hewed a little closer to the original weapons load.

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LCC
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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #23 on: 13 September 2013, 23:44:49 »
Take the Sagittaire for the fluff. I paraphrase:"...the horror of seeing a 95 ton 'mech rise up on jump jets."
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Getz

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #24 on: 14 September 2013, 11:22:18 »
Ouchy!  LastChanceCav, that lvl 1 tech Sag design is brutal...

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Taurevanime

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #25 on: 14 September 2013, 12:37:40 »
I love the Sagittaire. It's base design is pretty good, but has clear deficiencies so I can forgive the cheesy combo of pulse lasers plus targeting computer. (They are also IS pulse lasers)
But it is such a great chassis with so much potential for toying around in, it's very easy and fun to come up with variants.

One variant I remember making but no longer having stats for swapped out the PPC and Large Pulse Lasers for ER Large Lasers, upped the heatsink count and swapped the engine for a standard model. The intent being to make a real middle range brawler.

And swapping pulse lasers for standard lasers frees up a lot of space in the design to start adding other fun equipment like ECM, C3, TAG so on and so forth. It's a really easy and fun design to toy around with and I hope that it will be in production for the Federated Suns post 3145 simply because of that. And even though it is an energy boat, it still has enough Davion flair by having jumpjets.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #26 on: 14 September 2013, 17:28:55 »
Heave you seen the Davion variants in TRO 3039?  Once upon a time, near-flashbulbs were very Davion.
Sunrise is Coming.

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #27 on: 15 September 2013, 01:29:13 »
Have you seen the Davion variants in TRO 3039?  Once upon a time, near-flashbulbs were very Davion.

And still are if the new Prey Seeker, Gunsmith and Black Knight have anything to say about it.   8)

Flashbulbs never go out of style.... >:D

Also, about the Sag, I love this mech like I love the Hunchback. Is it for sniping or other ranged combat? No, but what it does, it does very well imo. Using this thing well in a city or rough terrain can ruin any ones day.
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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #28 on: 15 September 2013, 06:52:18 »
The Sag is probably the IS Mech that took the biggest hit with TW.
Pretty much the bigger and nastier brother of the Penetrator, it was custom tailored for pulse+TC, and could remove a Heavies torso with a single aimed salvo at close range, balanced by its "speed", as those Combine Mechwarriors foolish enough to duel them learned (fluff section).
Today its just another 95ton Assault with a range problem, scattering its average damage all over the target.

Jump capable, Davion flavored hammers are indeed a bit rare.
How about the Templar C, or the Emperor 6D?

LastChanceCav

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Re: Tell me about: The Sagittaire
« Reply #29 on: 15 September 2013, 07:24:21 »
The Templar C would make a nice replacement as a jumping, short-ranged, Davion assault mech. It is one of my favorite canon configs, and like the Sag is a nightmare in built up terrain. Since its an omni you could outfit it for other roles depending on the mission, some of the new RS3067 variants are quite nice too.

Cheers,
LCC
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