BattleMech Manual Beta: Feedback desired

[Hythos]

Equipment
Pg97: ARTILLERY
Missing Thumper & Sniper artillery systems, as these can be BattleMech-mounted, like the Helepolis, which is listed in the BattleMech Quirks-tables.

Missing Negative Quirks
Pg89: WTF
Similar to DISTRACTING (1 POINT)

A ’Mech with the WTF quirk is physically designed to embarrass, intimidate, or confuse its pilot and opponent, with its appearance...

pg95: Yeoman:
pg90: Blitzkreig:
missing WTF Quirk

[Xotl]

Fun fact: Yeoman originally had the "Boombox" quirk but Adrian "Mad With Power" Gideon removed it.  We've begun a coup to have him removed from power as a result; expect a new reign of terror shortly.

Artillery is advanced rules stuff (i.e. lengthy page count; not TL), so other than Arrow IV, it was left out.  If you want artillery, for the most part this book intends for you to use the Battlefield Support rules.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Open Beta
pg.91:Firebee
Firebee does not inherit any of the WAM-B's quirks, which were: Difficult to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Non-Standard Parts, Poor Workmanship, Weak Legs.

If the loss of negative quirks can be explained by switching from the prototype to a mass-produced variant, and Poor Life Support could be picked up accidentally in the same process, the question still stands: where did the Extended Torso Twist go? Visually, the chassis did not change a lot.
   
EDIT: WAM-B is in the XTRO: Primitives Vol. III

[ColBosch]

pg 82: Barrel Fist
Missing word. Addition in bold: "An arm with this quirk does not apply the +1 Target Number modifier for punching if it lacks a hand actuator."

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Open Beta
pg101 M-Pod
M-Pod is not Point-Blank, hence should not get PD designation.

Also, why PD and not PB, for Point-Blank?

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Open Beta
pg53
Immobile ’Mechs and Unconscious Warriors: Immobile ’Mechs or ’Mechs with an unconscious warrior forced to make a Piloting Skill Roll—such as when shutting down due to overheating—automatically fail the roll.

Suggested change:

Immobile ’Mechs and Unconscious Warriors: Immobile ’Mechs or ’Mechs with an unconscious warrior forced to make a Piloting Skill Roll—such as when shut down due to overheating—automatically fail the roll.

During the phase when the reactor shuts down the TN modifier for PSR is +3, it's not an automatic failure.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Open Beta
pg93: Ostwar

Suggested Quirk:

Vestigial Hands

Reason:
Judging from the art in JHS:3076 and TRO:3085, both SRM-4's shovels and Streak SRM-4' sprouts seem capable of simple tasks.

[Hythos]

pg101 M-Pod
M-Pod is not Point-Blank, hence should not get PD designation.

Also, why PD and not PB, for Point-Blank?

They're Point Defense, and I think Point Blank pertains to units that can make those types of attacks (namely, infantry).

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Open Beta
pg92: Hoplite

Only on the oldest art it does not have a waist (arguably). On all newer art it does (clearly in H:OK, TRO:3039, XTRO:Mercs).

Suggestion:
Remove the No Torso Twist quirk.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

They're Point Defense, and I think Point Blank pertains to units that can make those types of attacks (namely, infantry).

"PD: Point-Blank. Point-blank weapons can only be used against targets in the same or adjacent hexes."

Though, I get the logic. M-Pod still does not qualify.

[pheonixstorm]

Beta
pg95 Quirks list
Thunderbolt entry.

In Primitives III the Thunderbolt receives the Multi-Trac quirk. Wouldn't the Production model keep this as well? The basic weapons load is the same. There is nothing in the fluff between Prim III, 3025, or 3039 that would account for the quirk on any model, but the primitive has it and I don't see why Earthwerks would change the targeting software that drastically to have removed said quirk.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Here's another post in the "I think this mech should have a quirk that you didn't give" column.

Hatamotos should have "Easy to Maintain", imo.  Based on TRO entries in 3039 and 3050U.  And logically that Hatamotos are heavily modified Chargers, which DO have the quirk already.

3050U: Mentions that Hatamotos have "spacious cavities" that are "easy to reconfigure".
3039: The notable pilot entry is actually not a Hatamoto pilot.  The LCAF pilot is notable precisely because Hatamotos are so easy to repair... she killed the same Hatamoto over and over in the same battle only to see it quickly repaired and put back into action every time.

also: not that it's the BattleMech Manual's focus, but customizing a mech involves lots of repair rolls.  Between the 3050U comment and the existence of so many canonical variations on the Hatamoto, it's clearly something that's easily redesigned/customized.  Again, the entire line is basically a totemized Charger afterall.  Ergo, it's easy to make lots of repair rolls on a Hatamoto and that sounds very appropo for the quirk :)

[Liam's Ghost]

My memory is a little fuzzy on this, but I would suggest the Fenris/Ice Ferret for the coveted Narrow/Low Profile quirk, as well as the Compact Mech quirk. If I recall correctly from the novel DRT, there is a scene where two Fenris are stored in the same mech bay aboard a dropship.

(Anybody who actually has access to the book, feel free to correct me).

[CampaignAnon]

Here's another post in the "I think this mech should have a quirk that you didn't give" column.

Hatamotos should have "Easy to Maintain", imo.  Based on TRO entries in 3039 and 3050U.  And logically that Hatamotos are heavily modified Chargers, which DO have the quirk already.

3050U: Mentions that Hatamotos have "spacious cavities" that are "easy to reconfigure".
3039: The notable pilot entry is actually not a Hatamoto pilot.  The LCAF pilot is notable precisely because Hatamotos are so easy to repair... she killed the same Hatamoto over and over in the same battle only to see it quickly repaired and put back into action every time.

Yeah I can agree with Easy to Maintain.

also: not that it's the BattleMech Manual's focus, but customizing a mech involves lots of repair rolls.  Between the 3050U comment and the existence of so many canonical variations on the Hatamoto, it's clearly something that's easily redesigned/customized.  Again, the entire line is basically a totemized Charger afterall.  Ergo, it's easy to make lots of repair rolls on a Hatamoto and that sounds very appropo for the quirk :)

Er, that's what the Modular Weapons (Torso Weapons) quirk is referencing. Since most of the canon variants of the original Hatamoto shuffled the torso weapons, that's what got the quirk.

[Bren]

Suggestion: Accurate Weapon perk for the Thorn's LRM 5.

TRO2750 (1989), p18: "The Zeus Long-Range Missile system is extremely accurate, and the arm mount allows the pilot to switch targets quickly. If damaged, the entire system can be replaced in a few hours ..."

Should the LRM get the modular weapon perk as well? I'm not 100% clear on the rules from StratOps.

[pheonixstorm]

I don't think so for the modular quirk, but I do agree with the accurate weapon quirk for the Thorn. I think this was one of the things that was left out for the entry in 3039. The reason for my original question.

[Bren]

Suggestion: Timberwolf 'Pryde'; Accurate Weapon (ER Small Laser), Improved Targeting (ER Small Laser), Stabilized Weapon (ER Small Laser)

O:-)

[Sagittaire]

In my opinion, no.  Since quirks aren't tournament legal, and the point of this book is to cover TL rules.  It's a bonus. 
But certainly the Atlas III by itself is not missing.  If you want to request all units, go for it. You're welcome to your own opinion, and they've asked for your opinion.

Suggestion: All 'Mechs be listed on the BATTLEMECH QUIRK TABLE

[Xotl]

OK, so if you are catching up on questions, I do have one from page 31, Indirect Fire and TAG. I will quote the rules here:

This leads to my question.

Mech A is TAGging enemy Mech 1.

If Mech A then spots Mech 1 for Mech B to indirect fire on (using Semi-guided missiles because otherwise TAG is useless for IF), does this mean that Mech B has the follwoing Modifiers for Attacking (Using  G.A.T.O.R.):

G: Base Gunner
A: Mech B's Attacker Movement Modifier
T: Not calculated as Using Semi-Guided Missiles with TAG elimiates (page 31)
O: +1 To hit for IF not calcuated (page 31, Semi-Guided), +1 for Spotter IS added because the spotter is the TAGger?
R: Range Modifiers

If that is indeed true, then I am correct in assuming if the TAGger does not then spot but say Mech G spots instead (and performs no attack) then the +1 for Spotter attacking is not added at step O of G.A.T.O.R.?

If Mech A both TAGs and spots for IF:

Mech B has a +2 penalty to attack
(+1 IF penalty, +1 more because the spotter counts as having attacked that turn, as per BMM p. 113)

If Mech A TAGs and non-attacking Mech G spots for IF:

Mech B has a +1 penalty to attack
(+1 IF penalty)

I hope this clarifies things: let me know if I missed a point.  As far as I can tell there's nothing in the rules that would make me thing Mech B would receive additional penalties in scenario 2.  Can you explain why you thought so?  Do you think this needs a clarifier anywhere?  if so, could you suggest the exact spot and some idea of what the wording might be (even just rough)?

[NeonKnight]

If Mech A both TAGs and spots for IF:

Mech B has a +2 penalty to attack
(+1 IF penalty, +1 more because the spotter counts as having attacked that turn, as per BMM p. 113)

If Mech A TAGs and non-attacking Mech G spots for IF:

Mech B has a +1 penalty to attack
(+1 IF penalty)

I hope this clarifies things: let me know if I missed a point.  As far as I can tell there's nothing in the rules that would make me thing Mech B would receive additional penalties in scenario 2.  Can you explain why you thought so?  Do you think this needs a clarifier anywhere?  if so, could you suggest the exact spot and some idea of what the wording might be (even just rough)?

Kind of.

First my apologies as I know this us confusing.

Based on the rules, if Mech A tags and Mech G spots, Mech B does not get the +1 penalty based on Tagging and Indirdct Fire Rules.

But what I am asking is if Mech A tags and then spots a seperate target (Mech A tags a Jenner but then Spots a Hunchback), would a +1 penalty then apply for Indirect Fire against the hunchback?

Based on the rules on Page 31 it can be argued either way.

[Xotl]

Ah, I see now.  The statement on p. 31 says:

"However, a ’Mech can spot for indirect fire and TAG a target in the same turn;"

There's no specifying the same target or anything in that sentence (spot" and "tag a target" are generic / without qualifiers in this phrase).  So yes, if a mech tags one target and spots another target, it's still the same as if it tags and spots the same target as far as the guy making the actual attack is concerned.

[NeonKnight]

Ah, I see now.  The statement on p. 31 says:

"However, a ’Mech can spot for indirect fire and TAG a target in the same turn;"

There's no specifying the same target or anything in that sentence (spot" and "tag a target" are genericin this phrase).  So yes, if a mech tags one target and spots another target, it's still the same as if it tags and spots the same target as far as the guy making the actual attack is concerned.

Yep what I thought. Just wanted to clarify as it could be interpreted the other way.

Maybe a qualifier of even if the tag and target are two different mechs

[CampaignAnon]

So the Tarantula has Extended Torso Twist as a quirk. That normal does nothing for a quad, but are we going to allow the Tarantula to twist one hexside, or change the quirk?

[ColBosch]

So the Tarantula has Extended Torso Twist as a quirk. That normal does nothing for a quad, but are we going to allow the Tarantula to twist one hexside, or change the quirk?

I say use it as an example of how quirks can override normal rules. Something like: "Normally, a quad 'Mech cannot torso-twist at all. However, the Tarantula has Extended Torso Twist. In this case - and in others where a quirk grants an ability the unit normally lacks - the quirk completely overrides the standard rules, and the Tarantula can torso-twist two hex sides just as if it were a bipedal 'Mech with the same quirk."

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Suggestion
To add an example of TAG use on pp.112-113, which clarifies which bonuses it gives when combined with Semi-guided missiles. Both for direct and indirect fire.

I think that the moral of the TAG rules discussion is that a comprehensive example is needed. I really lacked one in TW, and now BattleMech Manual doesn't have one either.

[NeonKnight]

So the Tarantula has Extended Torso Twist as a quirk. That normal does nothing for a quad, but are we going to allow the Tarantula to twist one hexside, or change the quirk?

Going by a Straight reading of the Quirk, which states a Mech can increase it's twist by one or two hex sides, maybe clean up the wording to state a mech can increase the number of hex sides it can twist by one.

Therefore a Quad with 0 torso twist increase by 1 to 1

A Normal mech increase torso twist also by one, but this now changes a torso twist of 1 to 2 hex sides.

[NeonKnight]

Battlemech manual

Page 14
Example text for jumping

States there are two paths not covered 1-5-6-8 and 4-5-3-8.

Path 1-5-6-8 is impossible as 6 does not border 8. Path should read 1-5-7-8.

[Orin]

When reading the PDF on some tablets (including my iPad pro), I'm having trouble reading the last few lines of black text on some pages due to the dark "theme" dirt/stain printed as the page background. Would appreciate it if the dirt/stain was made a bit lighter so that the black text was always highly readable.

[theothersarah]

Page 86, Stabilized Weapon quirk description:

It states that "If the ’Mech runs (or sprints, if using the optional Sprinting rules; see p. 15) all Target Numbers for that weapon receive a –1 modifier."

Sprinting on page 15 states that "A ’Mech that sprints may not make any deliberate attacks that turn. Accidental charges as a result of skidding are still possible, and a ’Mech may still fire weapons to generate heat, though such firing has no chance of doing damage."

The mention of sprinting seems to be in error since deliberate ranged attacks at a specific target cannot be performed while sprinting, meaning that the -1 modifier will never come into play.

[Weirdo]

I forget exactly which ones, but there are units whose unique abilities allow them to fire while sprinting. I can only assume this was meant to cover those cases.