BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Miniatures and Terrain => Iron Wind Metals News and Announcements => Topic started by: pheonixstorm on 08 February 2017, 23:31:18

Title: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 08 February 2017, 23:31:18
Still impatiently waiting for this Q1 release... How goes the sculpting, master, mold making, etc?

Or is it just waiting for the packaging to arrive so they can ship  :P
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Dragon41673 on 09 February 2017, 23:24:44
Last I talked with IWM for the status of my store order on Thursday last week...they were supposed to be starting to ship roughly next week. I believe Speck is closing on & moving into a new house, so his official answer may be rather delayed.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 10 February 2017, 00:18:23
Yeah I figured it would be. As impatient as I am for the Wasp it wasn't really a rush, especially after the interrogation over the 12 classics. I am kinda surprised he could share as much as he did.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Light Brigade on 12 February 2017, 04:39:14
Hi,
are you planning to release variants of the Wasp? Like the WSP-1D for instance?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 23 February 2017, 22:21:09
1st Quarter 2017 release is still a week or two off. One of the mechs was a little behind and is holding up the release.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 24 February 2017, 15:31:14
1st Quarter 2017 release is still a week or two off. One of the mechs was a little behind and is holding up the release.
I hope it is not the Wasp that is holding it up!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 09 March 2017, 11:54:11
Any more updates on the new wasp?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 09 March 2017, 15:08:08
Yep, been two weeks now. How are things looking now Speck? All cleared up I hope!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 09 March 2017, 22:24:11
Should be shipping any day now
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 10 March 2017, 12:15:19
Hey Speck could you show us a picture of the wasp?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Azakael on 10 March 2017, 13:00:26
Hey Speck could you show us a picture of the wasp?

I'd like to second this, please.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 16 March 2017, 14:35:44
Did the wasp start shipping yet?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 March 2017, 15:23:54
Did the wasp start shipping yet?

I can safely assume he'll announce it when it comes out. Continuing to ask over and over doesn't help.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: phytimphthora on 16 March 2017, 15:36:35
Did the wasp start shipping yet?

It has shipped. Aries miniatures has it in stock (https://www.ariesgamesandminis.com/index.php/shopping/product/2369-wasp-wsp-1a.html). It is probably on some of the ebay stores as well, though I have not checked.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 16 March 2017, 15:53:28
Whats the shipping usually like from Aries?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: phytimphthora on 16 March 2017, 16:09:07
Whats the shipping usually like from Aries?

I usually get the priority mail option which is around $7 (for a ~$50 order). He ships very fast, I ordered late Monday evening and received the order today.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sartris on 16 March 2017, 17:18:34
Aries is fast and efficient and you'll be notified within a business day if anything in your order is going to cause a holdup.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Dragon41673 on 16 March 2017, 22:12:28
Thanks for the referral guys. Due to the rules, it's hard to talk about sales here.

Whats the shipping usually like from Aries?

It's cheap, both First Class Mail & Priority Mail are options. I only ship USPS. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you need to know more.

Thank again guys!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 16 March 2017, 23:33:46
Yeah, I can imagine. Price is good and I know the cost of shipping isn't bad via USPS usually. Though the best is below retail and free shipping lol
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 17 March 2017, 10:38:07
I can safely assume he'll announce it when it comes out. Continuing to ask over and over doesn't help.
It doesn't Hurt either  O0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Mech42ace on 17 March 2017, 12:48:02
Aries is fast and efficient and you'll be notified within a business day if anything in your order is going to cause a holdup.
Aff, last order I made was at 11 pm on a Friday, had it Monday!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: B1Bflyer on 19 March 2017, 00:03:38
They must have shipped some already because you can find them on ebay. Complete with a misprint on the blister of "45 tons"  ::)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 19 March 2017, 10:56:22
Looking at the blister I hope it isn't the size of a 45 ton  :-[
And after looking at the picture on eBay it appears it doesn't have a head!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 19 March 2017, 13:28:40
Hard to see the head when you're looking at the bottom of the torso!  :D

It will likely be on the large side for a 20-tonner, though it shouldn't be mistaken for a medium. The aim was to match the target production size for the Stinger, which was on the large side due to technical constraints. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 19 March 2017, 13:54:14
How do these compare in size to the Primitive Wasp or the Reseen Stinger/Phoenix Hawk?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 19 March 2017, 16:54:09
Continuing to ask over and over doesn't help.
Are you really sure? }:) >:D Maybe Capslock will do the trick.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 20 March 2017, 10:56:58
Hard to see the head when you're looking at the bottom of the torso!  :D

It will likely be on the large side for a 20-tonner, though it shouldn't be mistaken for a medium. The aim was to match the target production size for the Stinger, which was on the large side due to technical constraints. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
Interesting, so can I assume the extra parts then will make a few different variants?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 20 March 2017, 17:34:05
I got two yesterday. There are three weapon parts to change the variant. A 2 sm. Laser, machine gun,and flamer.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 20 March 2017, 21:41:09
No SRM 4?!?!?! How dare they!  :D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sartris on 20 March 2017, 23:13:03
someone bought out my FLGS' distributor already?  :'(
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 20 March 2017, 23:24:34
Here are some comparison shots next to a Loki Mk. II and a reseen Locust.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17359378_10212036291164468_2140017233262305712_o.jpg?oh=024f0a0ceedbf7d82af55c4645d019f7&oe=5926F00A)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17311283_10212036293244520_831458704630076919_o.jpg?oh=1a2ff851dcbcc311464e3b89b2072733&oe=5969A2C0)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p320x320/17425942_10212036291684481_8006960784253702347_n.jpg?oh=b7975ad188ba0a69173f43af7f11f64a&oe=592982E1)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 20 March 2017, 23:26:55
Beefier than I expected. Looks like you assembled it as a D variant?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 20 March 2017, 23:28:52
Beefier than I expected. Looks like you assembled it as a D variant?

Yep. The only issue was trying to place the small lasers. Under the torso was the only way I saw to keep normal mobility in the arm. (As much as it is already impeded by the fire breathing leg)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 20 March 2017, 23:58:34
Would the same lasers fit on top of the torso? I ordered 2 and I plan on making a Wasp-1W out of one of them
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 21 March 2017, 00:24:40
Would the same lasers fit on top of the torso? I ordered 2 and I plan on making a Wasp-1W out of one of them

When i was trying placement it seemed to bulky. You could also trim the laser box down to fit. It all falls to preference.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Hayden. on 21 March 2017, 01:55:57
No SRM 4?!?!?! How dare they!  :D

I had a similar reaction, but I've already got a plan for this.  I've got a lance worth on order, and I'm planning on building a WSP-1A, -1D, -1K and -1L.  For the L, I'll chop the laser off the arm and combine extra missile pods from the -1D or -1K and throw them on in place of the medium laser.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 21 March 2017, 02:12:10
Wow, that's a beefy Wasp.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 21 March 2017, 02:35:04
So am I imagining things or is that Wasp one piece aside from the variant bits?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 21 March 2017, 02:54:20
Think it's split at the waist.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 21 March 2017, 06:27:18
Think it's split at the waist.

Torso, legs, each arm. Four pieces total plus the variants bits.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 21 March 2017, 06:58:43
too beefy but still better looking than the reseen and cheaper than looking for more unseen. And can't use unseen in tourney anyway.. so theres another plus I guess.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 21 March 2017, 10:49:12
No SRM 4?!?!?! How dare they!  :D

There's a handy SRM-4 in the XTRO Vixen that might work well. Not sure how well it would fit (I don't have a Wasp), but it's far better-scaled than the Clan Omnimech SRM-4 at least.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 21 March 2017, 11:22:10
I wonder if we could see the 3D file for the Wasp-1D to get an idea were the lasers were designed to go?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 21 March 2017, 12:18:49
too beefy but still better looking than the reseen and cheaper than looking for more unseen. And can't use unseen in tourney anyway.. so theres another plus I guess.

The torso feels very Whitworth to me in its bulkiness. I think I'm more likely to go with the Primitive Wasp for my future Wasp mini needs, and wait and see what happens with the Stinger when we get art for that.  If that doesn't work for me, I'll probably go with the Stinger IIC for any future old Stingers I need.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 22 March 2017, 09:01:28
Sorry, but this feels like a huge letdown (seems like a really bad 3D printer was used). The Wasp mini is missing so many details and most of the shape is just wrong (the head ...just... no). Seems like I have to use the primitive as a proxy. :'(
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: ijewett on 22 March 2017, 11:35:11
Quote
Sorry, but this feels like a huge letdown (seems like a really bad 3D printer was used). The Wasp mini is missing so many details and most of the shape is just wrong (the head ...just... no). Seems like I have to use the primitive as a proxy. :'(

It looks like the flash washed out most of the details. But it does seem like they are there. That said however I agree with the head looking.... bad. Also I agree with previous posters, this Wasp is very very bulky. Things like the fairings on the legs, that appear to come out at around a 45degree angle on the image in FSS, look much more like an 60 or 70 degree angle on the miniature. This makes them much too think. The chest also looks a bit too Bulky. I am a bit disappointed. I have been very happy with IWM miniatures over the past few years. But this one I may skip on.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: sadlerbw on 22 March 2017, 11:45:41
I'm not ready to judge based on this one set of pictures. I've had some pretty misleading stuff come out of my phones camera before when it comes to pictures of minis! Anyway, it does look a bit...thick, but it also seems quite small, so it may not seem so big in person. I'm reserving judgement at this point.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 22 March 2017, 12:18:20
Yeash that thing bit bulky than i would imagine a Wasp should be. It's suppose to be one of the leaner machines.  I keep remembering yarns of Wasp/Stinger size mechs being lifted by Atlas and bodily thrown.  That thing bit bulky for that, unless the stockiness only appearance and not weight.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 22 March 2017, 13:11:05
Sorry, but this feels like a huge letdown (seems like a really bad 3D printer was used). The Wasp mini is missing so many details and most of the shape is just wrong (the head ...just... no). Seems like I have to use the primitive as a proxy. :'(

I think the details are being heavily obscured by glare in those pictures.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: jimdigris on 22 March 2017, 16:44:08
I just received it.  It is a full head taller than the primitive Wasp.  It looks like a medium mech.  Is it possible that the sculptor thought that it was 45 tons and sculpted accordingly?  How is quality control being handled?
I think I'll stick with the primitive Wasp.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 22 March 2017, 17:20:29
With all this in mind, I suppose I'll have to limit my initial purchase to one mini to see how it looks up close with paint on it.

And maybe look into bits to convert primitive wasps...

Though now I'm wondering how the new wasp would look converted into a phoenix hawk, or maybe something inbetween...

I just received it.  It is a full head taller than the primitive Wasp.  It looks like a medium mech.  Is it possible that the sculptor thought that it was 45 tons and sculpted accordingly? 

I recall some talk earlier that they wanted to scale it with the new stinger, and there were some detail issues that necessitated scaling up the stinger. This probably wouldn't be as much of a problem if the new wasp wasn't quite so beefy. You know, something lanky like the phoenix version of the wasp, but not crappy like the phoenix wasp.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 22 March 2017, 17:24:18
Yeah, I coulda seen a skinnier Phoenix Hawk, which would then fit with the Phoenix Hawk's in-universe origins as being essentially a beefed-up Wasp/Stinger.  And, like the old Marauder/Marauder II, it wasn't a huge size difference between them (I have neither of the new minis, note, to see if that's still true).
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 22 March 2017, 17:44:19
After buying the Thor II and Bakeneko and now seeing the Wasp I sadly have to say that there seems to be a trend with some sculptors doing everything via 3D printers alone. All those minis lack the detail and correct angles of many other minis, yet there are stellar minis like the Zeus X. If soomebody of IWM reads this I would like to know if I would be allowed to take on the task of doing my own mini in order to give it away to IWM for free as a master. I dont say that I can do it better but now I am really eager to give it a try. But first I need an OK from IWM.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Mech42ace on 22 March 2017, 18:11:16
Yeah... After seeing the actual mini I'm not too enthused about it either... That's not to say that I won't pick up one or two; but most things look better with a bit of paint. I'll probably hold out until I see some painted.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 22 March 2017, 18:31:47
After the great Shadowhawk and Ostscout that would be hard, if the Wasp is suddenly out of scale again. I hoped this all time issue would be solved now.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 22 March 2017, 18:46:00
I just received it.  It is a full head taller than the primitive Wasp. 

Just out of curiosity, what did it come out to in height (bottom of the feet to the top of the head), and widest point of the shoulders?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 22 March 2017, 19:29:19
Just out of curiosity, what did it come out to in height (bottom of the feet to the top of the head), and widest point of the shoulders?

1 and 5/8 inches.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 22 March 2017, 22:31:54
 [AAAH] Looking at the TRO art in 1st SW the pics of the wasp mini above looks like the Valkyrie in several places. Perhaps that is why it looks... beefy. The legs could possibly be reused as well as at least one arm. Head I'm not so sure. It kinda looks more like the Valkyrie art than the wasp art. Torso could possibly be used as a base for the Valkyrie too. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Stinger on 22 March 2017, 22:35:47
After buying the Thor II and Bakeneko and now seeing the Wasp I sadly have to say that there seems to be a trend with some sculptors doing everything via 3D printers alone. All those minis lack the detail and correct angles of many other minis, yet there are stellar minis like the Zeus X. If soomebody of IWM reads this I would like to know if I would be allowed to take on the task of doing my own mini in order to give it away to IWM for free as a master. I dont say that I can do it better but now I am really eager to give it a try. But first I need an OK from IWM.

So, I've got interesting news for you.  Of the Wasp, Thor II, and Bakeneko, only the Thor II was done with a 3D printer.  All 3 of the minis you have named, while they may have their flaws, were thoroughly reviewed by artists and sculptors alike and were approved by the IWM QCC.  I know you may disapprove of these minis, but they have been overall well received. 

If you have any feedback on minis done by M. Cross (that's me), please let me know via PM or this older thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56130) as I was specifically asking for feedback.  The Thor II was my first mini, so it is a little rough around the edges.

As for sculpting your own, I believe you have posted at least two threads on the matter and in both, you were given solid recommendations on how to get started.  I highly recommend you start a mini, something that hasn't been done before, and make a master of it.  When you feel it is perfect, send an email with photos to IWM and they will evaluate it.  If you are having trouble contacting IWM, talk to Speck, he is the representative around here for IWM.

Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 22 March 2017, 22:36:50
1 and 5/8 inches.
Which would be 41mm... I'm assuming that includes the foot pad/base portion of the mini then. That's alright, close enough for what I needed. Thanks!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 23 March 2017, 00:36:47
I don't think those are small lasers, but the hip mounted SRM2.  it even has the groove to fit the ridge.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 23 March 2017, 00:42:06
I don't think those are small lasers, but the hip mounted SRM2.  it even has the groove to fit the ridge.

You are probably right, but they shall be small lasers for me. :)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 23 March 2017, 04:08:55
As for sculpting your own, I believe you have posted at least two threads on the matter and in both, you were given solid recommendations on how to get started.  I highly recommend you start a mini, something that hasn't been done before, and make a master of it.  When you feel it is perfect, send an email with photos to IWM and they will evaluate it.  If you are having trouble contacting IWM, talk to Speck, he is the representative around here for IWM.

That´s is correct and is owed to the fact that i want precise information on standards/specification before I start investing time and money before starting such a task.
In this thread I asked about redoing the WASP (which already seems to be done by another artist), so I wanted to know if it´s still okay to have a second go on that or if there are legal agreements which I need to consider/respect. I don´t want to mess with legal agreements or snub artists just because I didn´t inform myself properly, that´s why I ask that much.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 23 March 2017, 08:31:36
It's not so much legal agreements as a limit on what's said publicly, and of profitability. I can say with a good deal of certainty that IWM won't be interested in re-doing a mini that just came out, and that the Wasp is the size it is because TPTB said so. As Stinger has said, aim to do something that has not been done - there are a number of designs in TRO:Prototypes for example - to work on your skills. Put it this way: if you wanted a job with Company X, would you apply and demonstrate your capability, or would you barge into their office, tell them their product is crap and that you can do it better? Do you think the latter method will allow you to integrate with the current workforce if you were given a job with Company X?

In my experience with CSO, it's more often not a lack of skill or potential that holds people back. It's ego. What happens to your grand designs on revolutionizing IWM's product line when your first (and second, and third....) effort is rejected? What about when you're asked to re-work a piece you've done that's perfect to you to change proportions, details, and even scale? How about when your print is crap and you've got to back-track for hours to find the source of the problem, or re-do it completely? A beautiful 1st Ghost Regiment mini doesn't happen because you sit down with a picture of a tattoo you like and a paint brush, it happens because of the thousands of hours of painting you've done before then. Show that you're willing to work and take direction. And to be let down. Even as a sculptor for IWM, you don't get to just pick and choose which pieces you get to do and apply your own vision to them.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 23 March 2017, 10:02:52
@Psycho: advice taken. But please note that I nowhere wrote that I am better than others, in fact I wrote the opposite. Yet you see that there are others who are not quite happy with how the Wasp came out. So thank you for the infos and I´m totally with you on that "ego" note. That´s always a thing with people who create stuff ;D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 23 March 2017, 12:43:27
That´s always a thing with people who create stuff.

It's much more complicated than this. Sometimes people use their ego as a shield. Sometimes ego is nothing more than a personification of others. But, it's a deep topic. And, I'm sure people didn't come to this thread to discuss psychology and the human condition. The point I would like to make however is; many creative types within the community are down-to-earth, excellent people. And quite fun to work with.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 23 March 2017, 13:18:20
Overall,  i like it.  Probably going to get several more for the variants and an extra for the Crescent Hawk's version as well.  Do I think its a little bulky?   Sure,  but I  can live with it.   
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: jimdigris on 23 March 2017, 17:25:39
Some more for reference...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Juodas Varnas on 23 March 2017, 17:36:21
It does look a lot better from the front-angle in the first picture.

Would love to see it painted, because the metallic color can make all the details disappear.

(I do think it could be a bit skinnier, but whatchagonnado)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 23 March 2017, 17:59:47
Having the Shadow Hawk (classic) there as reference on scale helps.  I do think it's too big but i guess the picture made it what is.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 23 March 2017, 18:34:17
Yeah, that's still a bit beefy, but having the old Unseen Wasp mini next to it helps for comparison. It's not as bad as it looked in thr first pics, and while size wise it looks more Valkyrie to me, it's workable. I prefer the Primitive (or Unseen) versions, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 23 March 2017, 19:10:56
lmfao it looks like it has a jock strap on [AAAH] [face palm]
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: The Wayfarer on 23 March 2017, 20:58:57
I would like to defend the new Wasp.  I got mine in tonight and assembled it after seeing this thread.

I like it.  It's faithful to the art and has plenty of detail.  The pic below is from a cell phone and doesn't do it justice.  Is it beefier than older lights?  Yes.  But the trend with IWM has been beefier minis of late which I prefer anyway.  They are easier to mod and paint.

See it below stacked next to a 3025 Wasp and a reSeen Stinger.

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a579/1he_Wayfarer/b7bb10f6-1efb-451c-b249-3158db865970_zpse9dwrk28.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/1he_Wayfarer/media/b7bb10f6-1efb-451c-b249-3158db865970_zpse9dwrk28.jpg.html)

Mike
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Scotty on 23 March 2017, 23:34:34
Some more for reference...

Please note, also for reference, that the Shadow Hawk in this image is unbased while the Wasp is based on built-up green stuff.  It's shorter than this picture makes it look.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Esskatze on 24 March 2017, 07:22:57
The Thor II was my first mini, so it is a little rough around the edges.

So you did the Thor II but not the other minis? I'm asking because the Thor II looks stellar in comparison to the other two, in fact, it's almost on the same quality level as the custom-made MWO minis. Now that mini done in plastic or resin, and I'd buy it without a second thought.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Hayden. on 24 March 2017, 18:26:44
I picked up a lance worth for now, i'll be making a WSP-1A. WSP-1D, WSP-1K and WSP-1L.  My work around for the 1L was to take the extra launcher/laser from the K kit, and used these to replace the medium laser on the right arm.

ED: I see now that the D version adds two small lasers, so I tacked on the last "missile" pod to that unit.

(http://orig14.deviantart.net/ce91/f/2017/083/b/e/my_capellan_solution_part_1_by_viereth-db3egw5.jpg)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 March 2017, 23:32:12
Sounds like a good idea O0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 25 March 2017, 12:18:40
Great idea!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 26 March 2017, 11:12:22
You are probably right, but they shall be small lasers for me. :)

Or it was meant to serve both roles.

I picked up a lance worth for now, i'll be making a WSP-1A. WSP-1D, WSP-1K and WSP-1L.  My work around for the 1L was to take an extra launcher from one of the D/K kits, and use them to replace the medium laser on the right arm.

It's almost like it was planned to leave that option open. Good stuff. Glad to see people quickly taking the initiative on relatively simple mods like this to make the mini their own.  O0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 26 March 2017, 12:16:29
Also we will have the Wasp 1A coming out soon as well.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 26 March 2017, 16:17:13
I'm puzzled. I thought we are already talking about the Wasp 1A (maybe coming with parts for the 1D).
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 26 March 2017, 16:43:02
I'm puzzled. I thought we are already talking about the Wasp 1A (maybe coming with parts for the 1D).

Sorry I was looking at the wrong thing when I made the post. Its the 1D that will be coming out.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Azakael on 26 March 2017, 17:19:04
Sorry I was looking at the wrong thing when I made the post. Its the 1D that will be coming out.

So, I'm looking at my Wasp, and what is missing for the 1D?
I have a leg mounted flamer, a machine gun, and the leg mounted missiles. Which apparently is meant to double as small lasers for the 1D.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 26 March 2017, 17:44:16
So, I'm looking at my Wasp, and what is missing for the 1D?
I have a leg mounted flamer, a machine gun, and the leg mounted missiles. Which apparently is meant to double as small lasers for the 1D.

Yeah, well never mind. I did not see that they molded all of the parts together. So the blister has parts for any one version of the 1A, 1D and 1K.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 26 March 2017, 20:35:04
Sooo maybe it should be the 1L that's coming out soon?? ;D

Perhaps just adding an extra srm pack would be enough for that. Or a mold of nothing but that part and toss it up on the scrapyard?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 27 March 2017, 09:59:14
So the blister has parts for any one version of the 1A, 1D and 1K.

Best news, thanks!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 28 March 2017, 02:19:23
Anyone decide the MG for the -K seems better placed under the LT instead of on top?  I'm considering doing that.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Azakael on 28 March 2017, 02:34:28
Anyone decide the MG for the -K seems better placed under the LT instead of on top?  I'm considering doing that.

Wait. It's supposed to go on top? I kinda' assumed it went on the bottom.

Which - aside from the leg-mounted weaponry, which has an obvious spot, where *is* the intended location for the torso-mounted weapons? (Small Laser on the D and S, MG on the K, and Flamer on the S.)

Also, I wouldn't mind the ability to buy the sprue that has SRM/ S.Laser piece as well. Three of them can make a 1W. Two of them makes the 1L as seen above.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sartris on 28 March 2017, 10:52:56
Which - aside from the leg-mounted weaponry, which has an obvious spot, where *is* the intended location for the torso-mounted weapons? (Small Laser on the D and S, MG on the K, and Flamer on the S.)

There's that little ridge on the upper leg that matches the slot on the flamer (it's in the left leg on the record sheet). The dual SL appears to belong on the lower torso on the sloped part right above the hip. You could also glue it to the torso next to the head where there's an even spot.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 28 March 2017, 13:04:40
It looks like a baby shadow hawk with the MG on the top.  So went for the undermount.  Also the SRM is too wide to place flat on the topside and you would need to stand it on the side to work.  Then again peripheral vision never seems to be a problem in the game  ;D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 28 March 2017, 13:51:31
Talking about placement, we should look for the planned variants:

So the blister has parts for any one version of the 1A, 1D and 1K.

All of them have a medium laser in the RA.
Beside that we have a weapon port in the LL and one in LT.

1A
SRM-2 in LL

1D
Flamer in LL
2 Small Laser in LT

1K
MG in LT

So the only question is, should the LT weapons mounted under the torso or on top. That said, i wonder if the SRM can be mounted on top of the RT to reflect the 3M variant ...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 28 March 2017, 14:28:44
There's that little ridge on the upper leg that matches the slot on the flamer (it's in the left leg on the record sheet). The dual SL appears to belong on the lower torso on the sloped part right above the hip. You could also glue it to the torso next to the head where there's an even spot.

Correct. The torso-mounts were intended to fit on the lower side.

I wouldn't say it's wrong to put them up top, but as Luciora has noticed, the SRM/SL is kind of big there, and will lack detail on the side meant to attach to the leg or torso.

That said, i wonder if the SRM can be mounted on top of the RT to reflect the 3M variant ...

Sure. It would face the same issues as the -1D, but it could be done. Even better; cut a chunk out of the back side of it so the SRM could sit lower on the torso and it would probably look pretty cool.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Hayden. on 28 March 2017, 14:29:52
Talking about placement, we should look for the planned variants:

All of them have a medium laser in the RA.
Beside that we have a weapon port in the LL and one in LT.

1A
SRM-2 in LL

1D
Flamer in LL
2 Small Laser in LT

1K
MG in LT

So the only question is, should the LT weapons mounted under the torso or on top. That said, i wonder if the SRM can be mounted on top of the RT to reflect the 3M variant ...

I'm out of SRM launchers, so I can't test it "over the shoulder", but I checked to see if "over" or "under" would be a better fit for the K model's machine gun.  Ultimately, I went with "under" because it seemed to have better clearance (the shoulder is already a bit 'crowded', and I was never happy with how the placement looked).  It's not impossible to fit it up there, however, and some people might prefer the appearance.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 28 March 2017, 15:56:20
 I'll have pictures of my assembled -1K and -1D after work.  I will pick up at least 2 more for the -1L and maybe the Crescent Hawk's all laser version too in the future.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 29 March 2017, 04:30:44
Bottom mount does look best.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 29 March 2017, 06:57:08
Looks better with a little paint on it. What did you use for the antenna?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 30 March 2017, 15:37:18
I still had some of the original wire from the blue packaging.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Cazaril on 04 April 2017, 00:10:22
What did you use for the antenna?

I still had some of the original wire from the blue packaging.

Just so you know... .015 (.38mm) Music Wire is the same size as the stuff from the blue packages. I got mine at HobbyTown, and if you invest in it you should end up with enough to last a lifetime (I think you get four 3-foot pieces). I want to say I bought mine 9 years ago and haven't dented my supply yet.

Luciora: If you have one, you might want to try rounding off the wire with a Dremel. I normally round one end before I cut it, and then glue the unfinished end into the mini. It looks a little better and doesn't bite/stab as much (although you still have to be careful with it)... Just a thought.

Caz
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: jimdigris on 04 April 2017, 16:53:27
I recommend tooth brush bristles.  They bend where metal would break at the glue.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Hayden. on 04 April 2017, 20:05:38
I recommend tooth brush bristles.  They bend where metal would break at the glue.

I agree with this.  I've also found them more forgivable to mount.  I have a new toothbrush I cut mine from.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Alex Keller on 05 April 2017, 00:24:19
I was going to buy a ton of these to fill out my various mech companies, but now I'm leaning more towards the Primitive Wasp.  I suppose I'll order one of these new Wasps to see how they compare, but they just look too big to be a 20ton mech.  I mean, I really don't want it to be as big as the Commando sculpt.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 05 April 2017, 02:42:38
I have 4 incoming. Based on the comparison from http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56960.0 they should work. Personally I think the 1A looks better than the 1
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 06 April 2017, 03:43:48
Thanks for reminding me of the -3M.  I had an extra head and a -3L to play with.  It's with the -1A for comparison.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Light Brigade on 06 April 2017, 06:25:10
If you feed it, it will grow up and become a Wolfhound, I guess  ;)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 06 April 2017, 14:20:15
I always believed that despite how bulky a design may appear, its the mass that matters.  Wasp (classic) so much bulkier than the reseen. Yet in some cases Reseen is tougher machine.  The Classic seems perhaps have a lot hollow spaces.  Still it's not bad looking I just wish it was dad smaller.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 May 2017, 12:13:14
Cant find this mech in the IWM online shop.   :(
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: cavingjan on 08 May 2017, 13:22:36
IWM puts new non web only minis up on their website after 3 or 4 months to allow the game stores to sell to people first.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 May 2017, 17:16:01
IWM puts new non web only minis up on their website after 3 or 4 months to allow the game stores to sell to people first.

Problem is no store in my country brings IWM stuff, you have to order it online.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: cavingjan on 08 May 2017, 20:05:25
We can only wait. I fully support IWM treatment of game stores. I shows they care about their business partners.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 08 May 2017, 22:53:01
Problem is no store in my country brings IWM stuff, you have to order it online.

They will be up tomorrow evening. Got side tracked by something else tonight to get them up.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 May 2017, 09:43:31
They will be up tomorrow evening. Got side tracked by something else tonight to get them up.

"The cheese in the fridge won't alphabetize itself, after all!"  ;D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wolf Reaper on 09 May 2017, 10:06:40
Forgot to post this when I did it for a few weeks ago for a fellow player.

A Wasp 1W

(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s960x960/18320541_10212534733985227_7193121768877201238_o.jpg?oh=ad495e97b6719bd5ad13c55d23f65271&oe=5986B5F4)

(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s960x960/18359483_10212534734505240_6804145334950966769_o.jpg?oh=a8751453351c71845dbfd7172d39be89&oe=5974E1D8)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 09 May 2017, 11:36:54
They will be up tomorrow evening. Got side tracked by something else tonight to get them up.

Yay!!!  O0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 09 May 2017, 14:21:11
Lucky,  have fun with it!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 10 May 2017, 12:10:38
I had an extra head and...

What is that VF-1D head from?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 10 May 2017, 13:56:09
Totally edited as I wasn't looking at it correctly -- it looks like the stock WSP-1A head modded to accept old VF-1S lasers.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 10 May 2017, 14:36:42
Its the R head with the centerline laser removed.  From the Robotech Tactics game.

What is that VF-1D head from?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 10 May 2017, 16:04:24
Ah, thank you, sir! O0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 11 May 2017, 21:16:54
New releases posted (http://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/13-battletech/63-new-battletech-releases-available-in-web-store)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 12 May 2017, 02:05:47
Four wasps ordered. Gonna wait to see them in person before committing to more.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 12 May 2017, 07:25:13
One painted up here http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57426.0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: jimdigris on 12 May 2017, 16:55:35
The Sarath isn't there.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 12 May 2017, 23:20:08
I believe it was delayed.

The Sarath isn't there.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 13 May 2017, 15:28:33
I believe it was delayed.

Copy and paste mistake, it was delayed until second quarter.

Also updated Release Schedule that has the 3rd Quarter added and removed the Valkyrie which is delayed right now.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 13 May 2017, 21:04:11
No classic for 3Q??  :'( [AAAH] [tickedoff] [metalhealth]
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 13 May 2017, 23:45:57
All these hold ups with Classics are very problematic.  I want my Warhammer and Marauder darn it.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: jimdigris on 14 May 2017, 12:56:10
I'm more partial to the Marauder, Griffin, and Locust.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: jimdigris on 17 May 2017, 06:18:12
The new Wasp just disappeared from the IWM website.  Why?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Alex Keller on 22 May 2017, 00:33:15
Yeah Wasp is gone.  I'm hoping its not another legal issue...  :-[
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 22 May 2017, 00:40:47
I got the four I ordered a couple days ago. I wonder what the problem is.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 22 May 2017, 00:45:37
Yeah Wasp is gone.  I'm hoping its not another legal issue...  :-[

I don't see how it could be, given how little it looks like the Unseen.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 22 May 2017, 06:38:13
MUL doesn't show images of the new Classic Wasp, just the blacked out reseen for anything Succession Wars or older except for the Primitive.

Dare we ask on the Ask Writers if there problem?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Alex Keller on 22 May 2017, 09:01:02
Wasp is gone and Valkyrie pushed back. Hope they're unrelated.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 22 May 2017, 09:04:02
I emailed Ironwinds but i'm not sure if they'll reply.
I hope there no gag order on this, i despite when they do that.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: nckestrel on 22 May 2017, 10:00:56
MUL doesn't show images of the new Classic Wasp, just the blacked out reseen for anything Succession Wars or older except for the Primitive.

Dare we ask on the Ask Writers if there problem?

The MUL has not been asked to pull/hold the Wasp artwork.  If it's not up, it's because (AFAIK) we just haven't gotten to it.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Alex Keller on 22 May 2017, 14:00:49
Argh....
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: speck on 29 May 2017, 20:36:47
Sorry for not posting sooner about this, but was waiting to hear back from Mike, then forums stopped working, and then we are at the weekend and it was my wife birthday.

Below is all that I am able to say for now, when I have more information to post about it I will do so.
Quote
“For reasons we can't disclose these two designs (Wasp & Valkyrie) have been withdrawn from active status until further notice”


Posting this here since I also put in the Valkyrie thread.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 29 May 2017, 20:43:15
heh, maybe I should hold off on assembling my Wasps in case they become super rare collectibles...  :D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 30 May 2017, 08:19:38
Sorry for not posting sooner about this, but was waiting to hear back from Mike, then forums stopped working, and then we are at the weekend and it was my wife birthday.

Below is all that I am able to say for now, when I have more information to post about it I will do so.
Posting this here since I also put in the Valkyrie thread.
*Sigh* I hope it's mold issue and not legal issue.  Being withdrawn sounds like later to me. Enough negativity about this. Sorry guys.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sharpnel on 30 May 2017, 08:27:36
IF it's a legal issue (which I hope it isn't) and involves HG, then ****** HG with a saguaro cactus. If it's an issue with the folks at MWOnline, the WTF?!

The phrasing in the quoted release does not sound good though. It's the type of phrasing that is indicative of legal matters.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: SpudBot on 30 May 2017, 09:26:55
We'll just have to wait and see.  It seems like a 'giant robot' called Valkyrie is always going to risk IP/legal issues.  Otoh, NASA got away with it!


(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.U_uWjGJpQTyera5QdUPc_AEsCo&pid=15.1&P=0&w=299&h=169).
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 30 May 2017, 10:37:43
It bothered me that the Classics were bit too close to the original resemblance to past the muster. It has to be more radically changed.  Let's hope the Warhammer isn't going through same thing, i hope thought it was enough changed.  Bug mechs maybe needing to be change more, i wish CGL would have been able to share the MWO designs so there wasn't issue.  It does explain why the Primitive Wasp silhouette was used for Stackpole's 2nd Novellea cover now. There must have been something brewing for a while.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: nckestrel on 30 May 2017, 11:00:12
We'll just have to wait and see.

Be patient people. 
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 30 May 2017, 12:17:02
The legal problems of the unseens couldn't be unknown at the time the classic artwork was done. That said i expect from any professional business to check on the matter before any risky release. IIRC with the release of the classics artwork something like that was said. Everything is fine with the new artwork.
As CGL put some money into that project i can't believe that this critical check wasn't done correct. Furthermore all the print products with this classic artwork is still available. If there is a legal issue, the print media would be impacted too.

But if it is no legal issue, then it must something really big on the distribution list of CGL to hold back those two classics ... and by the way many other cool classics where we have seen prototypes before ...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 30 May 2017, 13:25:46
The legal problems of the unseens couldn't be unknown at the time the classic artwork was done. That said i expect from any professional business to check on the matter before any risky release. IIRC with the release of the classics artwork something like that was said. Everything is fine with the new artwork.
As CGL put some money into that project i can't believe that this critical check wasn't done correct. Furthermore all the print products with this classic artwork is still available. If there is a legal issue, the print media would be impacted too.

But if it is no legal issue, then it must something really big on the distribution list of CGL to hold back those two classics ... and by the way many other cool classics where we have seen prototypes before ...

As i mentioned in the other thread, in amplification of your point it beggars the imagination that, given how overprotective HG is over... That R-Show... even unto suing a company who had a license from the original Japanese creator to sell transformable toys based on Macross here in the US... that they wouldn't have bought or had their lawyers request copies of 1SW, CM:M and CM:K and gone over them with a fine-toothed comb (Hell, they could have even gone on the web to see pics of Tasha K's Warhammer) and sent a C&D before the first printing's ink had dried.

That being said, I can't see any other scenario that would cause this particular sequence of events -- if it was something on CGL's side (for instance finally being able to announce the Classics in plastic), I can't imagine them ever allowing IWM to go through the expense of making the mold for the Wasp and then telling them "oops, sorry, we want to keep the Wasp for ourselves, after all."
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Alex Keller on 30 May 2017, 17:41:56
Some transparency from CGL would be a welcome change...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 30 May 2017, 18:20:10
And if they literally have a legal obligation to not say anything at all?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: sadlerbw on 30 May 2017, 23:55:57
Some transparency from CGL would be a welcome change...

It is entirely possible that CGL has no idea what is going on either. They are a separate company from IWM, and unless I misunderstand things, IWMs license comes from Topps, not CGL. Also, as these minis are licensed designs, if any flying lawyer-monkeys did take issue with them, it's very likely the license holder might be involved as well. Regardless, Speck gave us what he could, and if he could say more to cut off all this speculation I'm sure he would.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 31 May 2017, 00:28:56
Well, here's a rather twisted yet funny theory.

Worst possible outcome is that someone goofed badly and the art for the Wasp and Valkyrie was actually meant for MWO and PGI received the art meant for BT. Oops.

Would explain the silence... Probably from sheer embarrassment.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 31 May 2017, 09:59:51
heh, maybe I should hold off on assembling my Wasps in case they become super rare collectibles...  :D

There's already one being auctioned off on eBay as "recently discontinued".  [metalhealth]
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 31 May 2017, 11:34:11
Well that didn't take long. I'm betting a ridiculous price as well. Wonder how long till the knock-offs start rolling in... >:(
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 31 May 2017, 11:49:09
Arrrrrrgggg  [madflame]
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sartris on 31 May 2017, 12:50:14
it's worth noting that the new shadow hawk has not been pulled from the webstore
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 31 May 2017, 12:53:14
WHAT?!

Jules vern, why is this happening again....I guess that's why the Combat Manuals haven't continued too.

RIP Wasp

At least we have the primitive Wasp. I think they should stick with Primitives and be done with it.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 31 May 2017, 12:56:32
it's worth noting that the new shadow hawk has not been pulled from the webstore
[/quote

Even if this was a HG thing, I wouldn't expect it to.  HG has no rights to the Unseen Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, etc.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 31 May 2017, 13:01:34
Jules vern, why is this happening again....I guess that's why the Combat Manuals haven't continued too.

Nope. Not related.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 31 May 2017, 14:28:09
WHAT?!

Jules vern, why is this happening again....I guess that's why the Combat Manuals haven't continued too.

RIP Wasp

At least we have the primitive Wasp. I think they should stick with Primitives and be done with it.

Guys, let's keep to DEFCON 3 right now... Speck did say "until further notice". While I'm wracking my brain to think of another scenario, it's possible there is one that we don't know about. The thing that sticks in my mind is that with as public as CGL has made this over the course of going on two years now (the first art was published and displayed about this time in 2015), you'd think that if HG were involved, they would have swooped down like vultures much sooner. It's not like CGL hid that awesome art of Tasha K's Warhammer under a bushel basket.

The theory that may make more sense is Liam's Ghost's idea that this is a nuisance challenge from Palladium who are worried that the minis might eat into sales of their Robotech Tactics patience tests -- er, miniature kits. In which case, hopefully Simbieda et. al will be shown the door rather quickly (and, if there's any justice in this world, the judge will find him in contempt of players for the ridiculous Rifts rules) and we can all get on with business as usual. 

Even if it were HG relitigating the FASA case again, and even if they were to win (two dicey propositions), it's not like ALL the Classics would be taken away at a stroke. We'd still have the BattleMaster, Shadow Hawk, Locust, Thunderbolt, Griffin, Scorpion, Goliath, and Wolverine. A kick in the balls, to be sure, but not the total catastrophe of the Unseen days all over again.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 31 May 2017, 14:42:48
WHAT?!

Jules vern, why is this happening again....I guess that's why the Combat Manuals haven't continued too.

RIP Wasp

At least we have the primitive Wasp. I think they should stick with Primitives and be done with it.

Take it with a grain of salt. The online resellers don't know any more than we do. This is just regular old profiteering on the speculation and uncertainty.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 31 May 2017, 16:25:38
As others have pointed out, the art for the new RT based classics was the FIRST out the door with the Marauder and Warhammer. If HG or that other group had issue, it would have been not long after that. Also, MWO would also be feeling a lot of heat over their classics as well.

So lets stick to the following
1. Internal issue between CGL and IWM - Wasp/Valkyrie were to be in plastic first and IWM goofed on their rotation. Logical, we do know that IWM is scheduled to produce 12 in metal.
2. Production issue - cracked/broken mold for the Wasp, no mold until recently for the Valkyrie which would be inline with the removal of both from the current release schedule
3. A POLITE word from HG asking for CGL to make slight changes to the Wasp/Valkyrie as they may still be too close to the source material. Least likely IMO but still possible. This is not the same as a C&D which would affect all Macross influenced classics.

Since Speck can't say much about all of this I think 1 is the most likely, especially if CGL is close to releasing a new box set and/or lance packs. I am really hoping they are close as I have some disposable income I want to spend on something worthwhile.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 31 May 2017, 18:20:48
I'm thinking 1 or 3. I can't think that Speck would have to keep confidentiality if the mold were broken -- all he'd have to say is "the mold's broken, sorry, we'll get 'er back up and running as soon as we can."
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: SpudBot on 31 May 2017, 18:33:44
3 does seem unlikely as (imo) the Primitive Wasp looks closer in appearance to the source material and there have been no issues.

1 would in its way be fantastic news as I plan to buy umpteen-bajillion plastic unseens   [drool].
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 31 May 2017, 19:19:39
*snip*the Primitive Wasp looks closer in appearance to the source material*snip*

I have to disagree. It still does not come close to the original source material but is a much better rendition than the PP art/minis. Some may feel as you do, and I do like the primitive much better than the PP version, but there isn't a lot that looks the same. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 01 June 2017, 08:04:48
So lets stick to the following
1. Internal issue between CGL and IWM - Wasp/Valkyrie were to be in plastic first and IWM goofed on their rotation. Logical, we do know that IWM is scheduled to produce 12 in metal.
2. Production issue - cracked/broken mold for the Wasp, no mold until recently for the Valkyrie which would be inline with the removal of both from the current release schedule
3. A POLITE word from HG asking for CGL to make slight changes to the Wasp/Valkyrie as they may still be too close to the source material. Least likely IMO but still possible. This is not the same as a C&D which would affect all Macross influenced classics.

Or we could not add unfounded speculation and incorrect facts to the discussion.
1. Nope.
2. Still not correct on the Valk.
3. We've already discussed why that would be unlikely, though I'm not in a position to offer a hard no.

I'll throw out a #4: things are being organized behind the scenes to coordinate a big launch sometime in the near future. Again, I'm not privy to high-level discussion, and wouldn't be allowed to say anything if I was. I did notice a total lack of positive options and figured adding one might be worthwhile.
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left - however improbable - must be the truth." Now where's my Sherlock Holmes smiley?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 01 June 2017, 09:13:20
On 2, you said it yourself up thread that first the mold wasn't complete and then a few days later it was. Reasoning behind that one.

I do like the idea for your 4th idea but at the same time something like that should allow for a limited information release rather than "can't say anything" and eerie silence.

It may be pointless to prattle on and on about the same old reasoning for all of this of idle speculation but these forums are good at that. Plus, I would rather advocate the middle case scenarios that seem most likely even if they aren't true rather than the worst case such as a C&D from HG which I find to be the least likely with a probability of .001%.

Even a "stay positive its not what you think" from Speck would shut many of us up and then we could all laugh and dance with the unicorns ;D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Psycho on 01 June 2017, 12:08:11
On 2, you said it yourself up thread that first the mold wasn't complete and then a few days later it was. Reasoning behind that one.

Please do not change my words; I most certainly did not say that the mold had been made, as you can see from the quote below. My reply was that your assertion of the lack of a mold being a big issue holding up production was not the reason for the delay. It still isn't. The plan for release changed, which means not having a mold today, or last week, or last month is nothing to be concerned about.

It would be if the target release date was now or very shortly. It's not. The release was pushed back earlier, and is on target now. No "big issue" and no "holding up" to be had here.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Corrinald on 01 June 2017, 13:37:36
Or we could not add unfounded speculation and incorrect facts to the discussion.
1. Nope.
2. Still not correct on the Valk.
3. We've already discussed why that would be unlikely, though I'm not in a position to offer a hard no.

I'll throw out a #4: things are being organized behind the scenes to coordinate a big launch sometime in the near future. Again, I'm not privy to high-level discussion, and wouldn't be allowed to say anything if I was. I did notice a total lack of positive options and figured adding one might be worthwhile.
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left - however improbable - must be the truth." Now where's my Sherlock Holmes smiley?

I prefer this positive hopeful #4 possibility. Have no idea what's going on and want to hope for the best!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 01 June 2017, 13:40:21
Let them all be the Big Surprise at GenCon this year. It would be the best show for years!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 01 June 2017, 15:10:05
Now where's my Sherlock Holmes smiley?

<Jeeves>Shall this one do, sir?</Jeeves>  ;D

Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 01 June 2017, 18:08:47
My awesome inside sources have discovered the real reason for the discontinued Wasp.

Catalyst has decided to go with the one handed version instead, and insisted the Wasp be resculpted in a "Six Million Dollar Man" running pose, complete with speed lines. The Valkyrie is being held up because all hands are involved on trying to figure out how to do that.

To make up for the delay, Iron Wind Metals intends to cast the mini in 24 carat gold (at the same price point), as well as offering a free kitten (hairless breeds in adorable little sweaters available for those with allergies) with every purchase over ten dollars.

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/3b80e9e32acb2873399ed8f222c658c3/tumblr_mi8fr0zpZ31rmjbi4o1_500.jpg)

Hey, they can't all be predictions of doom.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: SpudBot on 01 June 2017, 19:09:26
Catalyst has decided to go with the one handed version instead, and insisted the Wasp be resculpted in a "Six Million Dollar Man" running pose, complete with speed lines. The Valkyrie is being held up because all hands are involved on trying to figure out how to do that.

Hopefully, the Valkyrie will also be in a full-on running pose, then we will get this sexy action:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/aa/a4/43/aaa443459601ab5573bd37bfc32796ff.jpg)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 02 June 2017, 15:19:58
Now where's my Sherlock Holmes smiley?

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/5ec91e0e0bdceb0cacf07b3b843b96d2/tumblr_inline_n44g04wcq71rh08o4.gif)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 16 June 2017, 13:49:39
My awesome inside sources have discovered the real reason for the discontinued Wasp.

Catalyst has decided to go with the one handed version instead, and insisted the Wasp be resculpted in a "Six Million Dollar Man" running pose, complete with speed lines. The Valkyrie is being held up because all hands are involved on trying to figure out how to do that.


Hey, they can't all be predictions of doom.
I hope you are correct and not just kidding, I lived through unseen being pulled before, I dont know if I can take going through that again  ;)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 16 June 2017, 17:14:08
If CGL pulled it for that reason.  I think it's kinda dumb. Only because they're effectively trigging us players without being at least transparent what their doing.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 16 June 2017, 17:45:28
Of course if true I will keep one of my wasp in the package. It just may be worth something one day O0
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 16 June 2017, 19:00:09
Or maybe it's something internal that we really have no business to need to know for privacy's sake.   Unfortunately that would mean they have to be silent.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 16 June 2017, 20:17:40
If CGL pulled it for that reason.  I think it's kinda dumb. Only because they're effectively trigging us players without being at least transparent what their doing.

I should point out that I have no awesome inside sources and was just kidding.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: wolfspider on 17 June 2017, 10:16:03
 >:(
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: sadlerbw on 18 June 2017, 01:15:31
I saw Speck today and mentioned that I was NOT going to ask him about the Wasp and Valkyrie, and he said that if I were to ask him, the answer would be the same as what he posted here. What can you take away from that statement? That Speck is a stand-up guy who is true to his word, and that whatever is going on is probably not happeneing at a level where he is in the middle of it to give out info even if he wanted to.

Hilariously, there was another fan who heard me talking about this and he predicted that it was all HG's fault and that we wouldn't be getting unseen as long as they were in business. It was a real life-imitating-the-forms moment. Who knows, that guy may be right, or it could be something's else entirely. Regardless, the Wasp and Valkyrie are off the table for now and will remain so until people who are not Speck decide otherwise.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 18 June 2017, 16:15:12
We need primitive Valkyrie (or a precursor to Valkyrie....like the Swordman)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 18 July 2017, 16:58:35
Since we lost a chunk of posts from the restore, can we get a 'The Story So Far' - even if it's just 'we can't talk about it' perhaps?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: JPArbiter on 18 July 2017, 20:02:51
We need primitive Valkyrie (or a precursor to Valkyrie....like the Swordman)

it's called the Firebee.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Valkerie on 18 July 2017, 21:31:18
Since we lost a chunk of posts from the restore, can we get a 'The Story So Far' - even if it's just 'we can't talk about it' perhaps?

At this juncture, I would just like to know if there will be anymore updates forthcoming.  I'm sure everyone at IWM would love to let us know what's going on, but higher powers are stopping that it would seem.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: worktroll on 18 July 2017, 22:52:38
higher powers are stopping that it would seem.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV4iO89x4q-y73hNQoxFdnPD-kEkUYol1AtTU-aKLeTVHmalJz)

The new Line Dev? :D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Valkerie on 19 July 2017, 01:06:33
Well there you go, all is explained.  I will sleep much better tonight  ::)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Phobos101 on 20 July 2017, 20:37:57
I won't. Now all I can see when I blink is pope vader's cold metal face!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 20 July 2017, 20:57:13
I won't. Now all I can see when I blink is pope vader's cold metal face!

Metropolitan Patriarch Vader, more like -- that dude's Orthodox, not Catholic  ;D
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: worktroll on 20 July 2017, 21:34:49
Adds a whole new layer to "I find your lack of faith ... disturbing" ;)

(https://i.redd.it/u03lrws6f36y.jpg)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Valkerie on 20 July 2017, 23:36:49
Somebody give this man a rim shot please  8)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: worktroll on 21 July 2017, 00:38:49
<resists temptation to make joke that would result in having to Warn myself ...>
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 21 July 2017, 04:26:18
<resists temptation to make joke that would result in having to Warn myself ...>

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1wEsQz6pcc0/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: faithless on 21 July 2017, 12:17:13
Well played Domi.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Valkerie on 21 July 2017, 13:00:05
Coffee out the nose with laughter.  Thanks guys  ;D  Now to clean up the mess...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 21 July 2017, 15:23:13
Well played Domi.

In the context of this conversation, the irony of your forum handle is almost overwhelming.  8)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sartris on 21 July 2017, 17:27:43
It's almost a year old, so it may or may not be the case, but this may provide a partial answer to the classics holdup

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52246.msg1244504#msg1244504

Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 21 July 2017, 17:32:14
The wait is painful to me. I don't know if I should save my four new wasps, or if I can safely slice up two of them for conversion (one to a 1L, one to a one handed version of the 1A).

I mean, the folks at Catalyst and Iron Wind Metals need to do what they need to do. I'm just saying that if they loved me, they'd give me more wasps.

And battlemasters.  :P
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 21 July 2017, 17:38:16
The wait is painful to me. I don't know if I should save my four new wasps, or if I can safely slice up two of them for conversion (one to a 1L, one to a one handed version of the 1A).

I mean, the folks at Catalyst and Iron Wind Metals need to do what they need to do. I'm just saying that if they loved me, they'd give me more wasps.

And battlemasters.  :P

All in good time. The good news is that given that they don't seem to be in any legally-imposed hurry to remove any Classics artwork from official/quasi-official sites (such as the MUL) and the Beemer and Thud were shown in all their glory in 2SW, it looks like there's no catstrophic lawsuit barrage from They That Shall Not Be Named that's gotten CGL's Baseball Card Overlords in panic mode.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Dragon41673 on 21 July 2017, 18:38:07
All in good time. The good news is that given that they don't seem to be in any legally-imposed hurry to remove any Classics artwork from official/quasi-official sites (such as the MUL) and the Beemer and Thud were shown in all their glory in 2SW, it looks like there's no catstrophic lawsuit barrage from They That Shall Not Be Named that's gotten CGL's Baseball Card Overlords in panic mode.

If I recall...the Battlemaster & Thunderbolt are NOT Harmony Gold I.P., hence they are ok to use (for whatever reason).
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 21 July 2017, 18:58:20
If I recall...the Battlemaster & Thunderbolt are NOT Harmony Gold I.P., hence they are ok to use (for whatever reason).

Yeah, but the last time this reared its ugly head in 2009 they were also not Harmony Gold IP and they yanked them from even licit uses out of fears of litigation. All I'm saying is let's us not go "Chicken Little" just yet. Once we see a couple of stars actually crash-land, then maybe the sky is falling  ;)

In other words...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: abou on 21 July 2017, 20:39:35
I would be very upset if the lame horse of a company Harmony Gold had managed to yet again get in the way of BattleTech. Considering they haven't done anything of note in years, it feels utterly unfair to be stymied by them again.

However, considering that 1st Succession War and the Combat Manuals are still for sale and have not had their covers altered AND the designs of concern are still a part of Mechwarrior ONLINE we are hopefully in the clear. Perhaps the Classics are going to be returned to us as part of the new box set a la BattleTech 3rd edition. That does feel fitting...

... also, I totally recommended that a few months ago.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 21 July 2017, 21:24:53
Most likely CGL had IWM pull the Macross designs to so they could have them in plastic first for the box sets and lance packs. As long as the various books are not pulled and have the art (CO has the Marauder on the front cover after all) removed/swapped there is no reason to spread doom. Gloom is ok since IWM teased us with the Wasp.

We already know IWM has 12 metal classics lined up. Two are out, Wasp and Valkyrie are now MIA, but we don't know yet which others they have lined up. Considering the number of unseen and halfseen (Ost series) there is still plenty to speculate about. I just wish Speck had more information he could share about this :-\
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Scotty on 21 July 2017, 22:53:08
No one on this board who is not named "Speck" should be using the phrases "probably", "most likely", "good chance", or anything that indicates any kind of informed knowledge of the variables behind the scenes that influence likelihood, because I am slightly more than 100% certain that no one here does.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Phobos101 on 22 July 2017, 10:34:28
There is probably most likely a good chance that Scotty is right... But I remain optimistic as long as the books containing artwork and photos of Classics designs remain available for purchase. That's the canary in the coal mine.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Dragon41673 on 22 July 2017, 16:01:00
Yeah, but the last time this reared its ugly head in 2009 they were also not Harmony Gold IP and they yanked them from even licit uses out of fears of litigation. All I'm saying is let's us not go "Chicken Little" just yet. Once we see a couple of stars actually crash-land, then maybe the sky is falling  ;)

In other words...

Yeah, I agree...people are far to quick to jump on the H.G. thing. Maybe it is true, maybe it isn't...it's not our place to know otherwise we would have been told by now I would imagine.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 22 July 2017, 17:40:17
Although... I just got a look at the table of contents for the new Succession Wars TRO at RPGNow.com (I'm going to buy it later at home when I'm not on a public Wi-Fi... anyone who does that is just begging to have their identity stolen  ;) ) and it looks like they've only included the non-Macross unseens in the book (specifically the Locust, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, and BattleMaster -- the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Archer, Marauder, Rifleman and Longbow are missing, as well as the Ost-mechs, the Goliath and Scorpion -- BTW on an unrelated note, that Loremaster who was mentioned in 2SW, he is now officially styled as "Star League Loremaster"  :o).

Now while this is not "panic button time", the omissions are telling...  :( >:(
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Weirdo on 22 July 2017, 18:31:12
Now while this is not "panic button time", the omissions are telling...  :( >:(

It tells us they're not in that particular book. It tells us nothing more and nothing less, and implies nothing.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 22 July 2017, 19:25:24
(https://idp05.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/paranoid-cat.jpg)

Although... I just got a look at the table of contents for the new Succession Wars TRO at RPGNow.com (I'm going to buy it later at home when I'm not on a public Wi-Fi... anyone who does that is just begging to have their identity stolen  ;) ) and it looks like they've only included the non-Macross unseens in the book (specifically the Locust, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, and BattleMaster -- the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Archer, Marauder, Rifleman and Longbow are missing, as well as the Ost-mechs, the Goliath and Scorpion -- BTW on an unrelated note, that Loremaster who was mentioned in 2SW, he is now officially styled as "Star League Loremaster"  :o).

Now while this is not "panic button time", the omissions are telling...  :( >:(

As a counterpoint, the Goliath and Scorpion are not Macross designs, and you can still buy the Ostscout in mini form.

EDIT: So the ostscout is in the book. Still though, you can still buy the primitive wasp.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 22 July 2017, 23:30:58
The primitive wasp looks nothing like the macross design though.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 22 July 2017, 23:47:22
The primitive wasp looks nothing like the macross design though.

The classic wasp didn't particularly look like the macross design either, and yet here we are.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Phobos101 on 23 July 2017, 00:12:15
Go to the Catalyst web store. If there were HG issues, Combat Manuals Kurita and Mercenaries would have been pulled from sale so fast your head would spin, because they both contain art of the new Warhammer, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk, as well as the Marauder mini. It's way too early to lose hair or sleep over this (although a little transparency from TPTB would be nice).
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 23 July 2017, 00:17:35
Go to the Catalyst web store. If there were HG issues, Combat Manuals Kurita and Mercenaries would have... *snip*

I have already repeated this often, though those don't matter as much as the most obvious. The font over for Campaign Operations has the Marauder front and cent. That is the easiest to check for missing Macross art.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 23 July 2017, 00:55:21
Go to the Catalyst web store. If there were HG issues, Combat Manuals Kurita and Mercenaries would have been pulled from sale so fast your head would spin, because they both contain art of the new Warhammer, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk, as well as the Marauder mini.
That's why I wasn't yet advocating pulling the "Wrath of HG" alarm just yet. On the other hand, it did seem suspicious that the bulk of the omissions were those... Just the thing to play into the collective paranoia...

Quote
It's way too early to lose hair... over this

If you'd ever seen me in person, you'd realize that ship has sailed (though that's more crappy genetics than worry over the Classics  :D )

Quote
(although a little transparency from TPTB would be nice).

Agreed. Although if there's a NDA or gag order, they may not be able to say anything. But still just something would be nice to allay the madding crowd's fears (or spur a run on hardware stores for pitchforks, torches and tar, along with a stop at Macy's to buy out their down pillows...  >:D)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 23 July 2017, 01:04:43
Agreed. Although if there's a NDA or gag order, they may not be able to say anything. But still just something would be nice to allay the madding crowd's fears (or spur a run on hardware stores for pitchforks, torches and tar, along with a stop at Macy's to buy out their down pillows...  >:D)

If they can't say anything, then there's no something they could say to calm people down.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 23 July 2017, 01:06:28
What? We still have Macys??? You mean they haven't gone the route of Sears, Service Merchandise, and JC Penny?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: worktroll on 23 July 2017, 05:05:05
Although if there's a NDA or gag order, they may not be able to say anything. But still just something would be nice

When talking (or not) about Harmony Gold, it's often best to subscribe to the "if you can't say something nice about someone ..." approach ;)

W.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 23 July 2017, 06:51:46
"if you can't say something nice about someone ..."

...shoot him in the face?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Dragon41673 on 23 July 2017, 09:59:41
What? We still have Macys??? You mean they haven't gone the route of Sears, Service Merchandise, and JC Penny?

Sears & JC Penney is still around here...but man, I thought I was the only one that remembered Service Merchandise!

So...since this has gone way off topic, for pages now...it will be a while before we have any updates from what I'm told. The Wasp has been pulled, and the Valkyrie is on hold. Till they give us more info, that's all that can be said unfortunately.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 23 July 2017, 13:58:28
My dad used to work there. And that ends this off topic section.

Back to you Chuck.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 23 July 2017, 16:12:15
I think we found our culprit.   :'(

https://dockets.justia.com/docket/washington/wawdce/2:2017cv00327/242820

Mods,  please remove if this is not allowed.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Valkerie on 23 July 2017, 16:15:31
Yeah, I already cursed them over in a different thread.  I have visions of an entire mech company stomping their offices out of existence...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 23 July 2017, 16:35:52
I missed it becauseof the misleading title :(

Yeah, I already cursed them over in a different thread.  I have visions of an entire mech company stomping their offices out of existence...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 23 July 2017, 17:43:05
It appears that the actual court proceedings that will settle this whole thing aren't set to begin until september of 2018 (that tidbit is buried in the mess of legal ramblings found here (https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/34e3xggza/washington-western-district-court//)).

So it seems we better get used to being without wasps for a while longer.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Valkerie on 24 July 2017, 01:04:18
So why are they pitching a fit now?  The Project Phoenix designs came out years ago and they are still around.  The new Wasp wasn't any closer to a Macross design than the Project Phoenix ones.  Plus what do they gain out of this other than the ire of fans?  This isn't exactly big money we're talking about here.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 24 July 2017, 01:10:48
It seems to be related to the computer games. Harebrained Schemes and Piranha Games were the initial targets of the lawsuit.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 July 2017, 01:22:41
I think HG just hates Jordan as it "looks" like he is the main focus even though HBS had to license the art/models from PGI and part of the complaint was that HE supposedly had a hand in it.

But what I find super funny is they are comparing the MWO Locust art from Battletech game to the Marauder as a copyright violation as well as the MWO Atlas saying it is derived from the Armored Veritech (Crusader). They also claim that the Shadow Hawk is a derivative of the Spartan (Archer).

Scroll down to the bottom of the link and read the PDF complaint file: https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/34e3xggza/washington-western-district-court//
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Phobos101 on 24 July 2017, 02:01:21
So the scary part of that is that if the court looks at the Locust/Marauder, Atlas/Armoured Valkyrie and Shadow Hawk/whatever-it-was comparison shots, and they say "yep, they're all robots alright" and deem them to be derivative, then where does it stop? is every bipedal "warrior robot" designed thereafter then a derivative of Robotech? Does HG then have carte blanche start suing the makers of Pacific Rim, Transformers (oh wait, they already tried that), Starsiege, and everything else that has come since?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 July 2017, 02:21:28
My magic eight ball says the creative team behind Robot Jox is next :P
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 24 July 2017, 04:53:44
Worth noting Harmony Gold just announced a new movie deal with Sony...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: ColBosch on 24 July 2017, 04:54:50
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58142.0

All discussion of the current situation with Harmony Gold should probably go there.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 24 July 2017, 05:01:16
Okay now, CGL is not listed in those papers (or is it indirectly with "et al"?), so can we assume that they and IWM lay low by retracting the retconned Wasp, Marauder etc. to avoid siding with the "others"?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sharpnel on 24 July 2017, 05:10:48
Worth noting Harmony Gold just announced a new movie deal with Sony...
I'm still trying to figure out how Harmony Gold is involved when they don't own the IP. That would be Studio Nue, a Japanese company/. How does Sony, a Japanese corporation not do its own diligence in its own backyard?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 July 2017, 05:42:40
Studio Nue has ownership over something... rather muddy. HG has rights in North America, perhaps worldwide distrobution rights I think according to them. This may be the end to their rights if the right parties get involved but who knows...

As for the et al, that would be Does 1-10 which I figure includes IWM, and InResMedia or InMediaRes... whatever the stupid name is for CGLs parent company. I would be rotflmfao if that 1-10 also included Topps and Microsoft. But yeah.. all rants, whining, and other sundries are going full tilt in the TRO thread in general.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 24 July 2017, 12:53:01
Deleting as I'm not sure this post would bring down the Wrath of Mod.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 24 July 2017, 13:07:51
Yeah, probably better to just discuss alternative options while these are unavailable.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: sadlerbw on 24 July 2017, 13:39:47
I'm honestly still not 100% convinced this is all tied to the HG vs. PGI/HBS thing. At least, not to that particular case, as IWM should have been one of the named defendants and not a Doe. So, I don't think they are directly a part of that lawsuit. There could be a different one we haven't found yet, or it could be IWM being cautious, but so far I haven't seen any of the IMR/CGL art mentioned in the Washington case, and that is what IWM's minis would be based on. The likelyhood that the Wasp/Valk getting pulled is related is high, but I'm not 100% convinced that it is the direct cause yet.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 24 July 2017, 13:48:18
I'm still trying to figure out how Harmony Gold is involved when they don't own the IP. That would be Studio Nue, a Japanese company/. How does Sony, a Japanese corporation not do its own diligence in its own backyard?

(This is what I deleted earlier, hopefully, it's not cutting too close) --

it would really depend on which portion of the Not-Named Franchise they're going to adapt. If they adapt Mospeada or Southern Cross, they can do whatever they like, as those are created and owned lock, stock and barrel by Tatsunoko. I tend to think this is the route HG and Tatsunoko would urge them to go because Japan is a sizeable movie market and they don't want to poke a hornet's nest by stirring up the Big West v. Tatsunoko battle.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Sartris on 24 July 2017, 13:58:23
I'm honestly still not 100% convinced this is all tied to the HG vs. PGI/HBS thing. At least, not to that particular case, as IWM should have been one of the named defendants and not a Doe. So, I don't think they are directly a part of that lawsuit. There could be a different one we haven't found yet, or it could be IWM being cautious, but so far I haven't seen any of the IMR/CGL art mentioned in the Washington case, and that is what IWM's minis would be based on. The likelyhood that the Wasp/Valk getting pulled is related is high, but I'm not 100% convinced that it is the direct cause yet.

CM: Mercs and CampOps are specifically highlighted in the complaint and CGL InMediaRes is named.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 24 July 2017, 15:51:54
Honestly, at this point, I am just hoping to see anything cool from the NuSeen, wasp or no.

If nothing else, I am eagerly (and hopefully) awaiting the Locust, Griffin, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, and Battlemaster.

*shrug*
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: sadlerbw on 24 July 2017, 16:41:00
Ahh, I was looking at the original complaint. I see on the docket where IMR was subpoenaed, but since I don't have PACER access at the moment, I didn't read all the filings. I didn't see CM: Mercs or Camp Ops mentioned in the original complaint. Where did you find references to those?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 July 2017, 16:43:48
Yeah, those are the other unseen everyone wants, and looks like those will not be affected since they are in the new SW TRO and 2nd SW book.

Perhaps IWM should create 100% wholly unique art for the Macross unseen that gives the same vibe as the Macross work but looks nothing like it and look 1000X better than the ressen so CGL can erase anything related to the unseen including the reseen which are uglier than sin
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 24 July 2017, 19:34:19
Yeah, probably better to just discuss alternative options while these are unavailable.

Fortunately in the case of the Wasp, the primitive mini is fantastic.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Phobos101 on 24 July 2017, 20:42:38
I guess if you really want the macross unseen, you can go buy the robotech rpg tactics minis. I hear they may have overproduced and are looking to get rid of a few, and they're a breeze to assemble (/sarcasm). Plus it seems like the IP holder might be looking for a payday...
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Feenix74 on 24 July 2017, 21:07:37
I refuse to give the Not-Named Corporation any of my hard-earned money. I would sooner buy random Games Workshop minis and use them as proxies for the unseen than give aid and succour to the Not-Named Corporation or its affiliates.

I feel guilt that during my BT sabbatical and before I knew about the whole unseen saga, I bought the Robotech DVDs and a t-shirt.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Trace Coburn on 24 July 2017, 21:54:05
   [copper]

  Ahem: let’s all calm down, shall we?  I know there are strong feelings about the Classics, but flying off the handle and starting a flame-war will help no-one.

  / [copper]
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: abou on 24 July 2017, 21:58:34
I remember a few years back when they first revealed the Classic MAD and WHM, they said their lawyers had gone over things with a fine-toothed comb and told them what changes they needed to make.
That was my hope. Do you have a reference to that handy? It might be lost to time, but that will ease my mind a lot if it is somewhere.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 24 July 2017, 22:55:08
At this point, given they're arguing the Locust infringes on the Marauder, the Atlas on the Armored Veritech, and the Shadow Hawk on the Spartan/Gladiator Destroid, it is by no means a safe statement to make that none of this would have happened if they hadn't redone the Macross images for the Classics.  After all, Project Phoenix didn't cause a new lawsuit, nor did the Primitive variants, including the Primitive Wasp.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 July 2017, 23:50:46
That was my hope. Do you have a reference to that handy? It might be lost to time, but that will ease my mind a lot if it is somewhere.

I've been trying to search for it as well with no luck. Please have that link bookmarked!!
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 25 July 2017, 09:35:59
At this point, given they're arguing the Locust infringes on the Marauder, the Atlas on the Armored Veritech, and the Shadow Hawk on the Spartan/Gladiator Destroid, it is by no means a safe statement to make that none of this would have happened if they hadn't redone the Macross images for the Classics.  After all, Project Phoenix didn't cause a new lawsuit, nor did the Primitive variants, including the Primitive Wasp.

Not yet, anyway.  :-\

I remain hopeful that things will work out, if not in a good way, at least in a non-disastrous way.

The real question, IMO, is how long will we have to wait for resolution? These things move very slowly, and (unless there's a settlement) there won't be any real movement on this for more than a year.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Pat Payne on 25 July 2017, 12:34:18
Not yet, anyway.  :-\

I remain hopeful that things will work out, if not in a good way, at least in a non-disastrous way.

The real question, IMO, is how long will we have to wait for resolution? These things move very slowly, and (unless there's a settlement) there won't be any real movement on this for more than a year.

Strap in with a good book, 'cause it may be a long trip. it could potentially be years if it goes to trial and the losing side appeals the verdict. because it then would go up the chain of state appellate courts, then possibly to the Federal District Court (9th Circuit of Appeals, oh, joy...) and from there up to the Supreme Court if the two sides really wanted to push the issue. That could take upwards of five or more years.

For reference, it took 2 years for a lawsuit that ultimately moved "Happy Birthday To You" into the public domain to be resolved (though that was actually speedy due to some last-minute almost Perry Mason-style developments)
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: ColBosch on 25 July 2017, 15:24:29
If the judge does not grant summary judgement nor dismissal - which are unlikely, in this case - then the trial is set for September of 2018.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 25 July 2017, 16:20:25
If the judge does not grant summary judgement nor dismissal - which are unlikely, in this case - then the trial is set for September of 2018.

Yep. That's where I got my "nothing happens for a year" comment.

I suppose I should have clarified that nothing publicly visible was likely to happen in that time, rather than nothing at all.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 25 July 2017, 17:25:24
So am I the only one who's got this nagging urge to just buy up a bunch of primitive wasps, primitive riflemen, and LAMs, just in case?

I think I understand bank panics now.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 25 July 2017, 18:32:18
I've considered the same, despite all my gameplay for the past couple years having been MegaMek.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 25 July 2017, 20:29:39
The primitive Rifleman makes a really nice 2N with the right parts.  I have one modded with a magnetized waist and swappable arms for the 1N, 2N and a Star League Era pilot custom.

So am I the only one who's got this nagging urge to just buy up a bunch of primitive wasps, primitive riflemen, and LAMs, just in case?

I think I understand bank panics now.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Empyrus on 25 July 2017, 20:44:55
2N or 3N?

Anyway, what parts you use for that conversion? Any pics anywhere?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 July 2017, 09:21:11
Yeah, I think I am going to go back to my plan before they announced the Classics . . . use a Marauder 4X to make a MAD-3R, turn a Lament into a Warhammer 6R . . .
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Luciora on 26 July 2017, 10:43:37
I cheated and used a set of original RFL arms i had in my bits box for the 2N.  Katanga used a toyama arm and a templar arm.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53177.msg1226598#msg1226598

2N or 3N?

Anyway, what parts you use for that conversion? Any pics anywhere?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 05 August 2017, 18:44:18
Not yet, anyway.  :-\

I remain hopeful that things will work out, if not in a good way, at least in a non-disastrous way.

The real question, IMO, is how long will we have to wait for resolution? These things move very slowly, and (unless there's a settlement) there won't be any real movement on this for more than a year.

Well the appointment is in Sep. 2018. This plus the time CGL and IWM will need to apply eventual regulations. That makes 11 years. At least. The time I will see my 14 "unseens" as minis I will be dying of old age. Would never have thought that I will smoke legal weed before I get my unseens.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 05 August 2017, 18:50:08
Yeah, I think I am going to go back to my plan before they announced the Classics . . . use a Marauder 4X to make a MAD-3R, turn a Lament into a Warhammer 6R . . .

Try it with the left arm of a Thunderhawk. What do ýou think?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Phobos101 on 07 August 2017, 08:31:25
The time I will see my 14 "unseens" as minis I will be dying of old age.

Don't see why the other uncontested designs can't go go ahead - even the PHawk and the Wasp look completely unlike any of there previous iterations (but still mighty purdy). So to my mind it should only be the whammy and marauder that get delayed. Note use of words Should, and To my mind.

Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: klarg1 on 07 August 2017, 14:03:09
Don't see why the other uncontested designs can't go go ahead - even the PHawk and the Wasp look completely unlike any of there previous iterations (but still mighty purdy). So to my mind it should only be the whammy and marauder that get delayed. Note use of words Should, and To my mind.

Even if the designs look very different, I would be quite surprised to see CGL put out anything related to Macross-tied designs before this thing is resolved. (Leaving aside the Ost series, which seems to have evolved past the point of even vague recognizability)

I will refrain from making predictions about the Crusher Joe and Dougram designs.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: ColBosch on 07 August 2017, 14:41:58
Don't see why the other uncontested designs can't go go ahead - even the PHawk and the Wasp look completely unlike any of there previous iterations (but still mighty purdy). So to my mind it should only be the whammy and marauder that get delayed. Note use of words Should, and To my mind.

If Harmony Gold expands the lawsuit to include other designs, and manages to win the case, then all profits from the sale of those items would have to be turned over to them. Holding off is a smart decision.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 08 August 2017, 02:31:44
As interesting as the fight will be against CGL/PGI is I am far more worried about the idiocy of the fight against HBS and the laughable claim based on the Locust, Atlas, and Shadow Hawk. People do stupid and unpredictable things, and this will end up as a jury fight if no one settles before then.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 08 August 2017, 05:33:49
As interesting as the fight will be against CGL/PGI is I am far more worried about the idiocy of the fight against HBS and the laughable claim based on the Locust, Atlas, and Shadow Hawk. People do stupid and unpredictable things, and this will end up as a jury fight if no one settles before then.

I cannot think of this being anything else than some sort of deception by HG. I have no experience with American law but could it be that this comparison will be withdrawn when the actual case gets executed and they will come up with the real accusations?
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 08 August 2017, 07:52:01
I am pretty sure it was only a ploy to get Weisman involved due to the original agreement he signed while at FASA but HBS doesn't use anything related to HG in the game yet and what it was going to use was licensed from PGI. They have, from what I could make of it, thrown the prior settlement against Jordan as the primary means of infringement. It sounds like they are trying to point everything to HBS and Jordan saying he was involved with the designs at PGI. Just based on that there is no reason to involve any actual art that isn't even related to their claimed copyrighted material.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Domi1981 on 23 August 2017, 14:02:00
Should I phone my gameshop and tell them that they can remove the Wasp?
https://www.fantasywelt.de/Wasp-WSP-1A-Mech-20-Tons-Combat-Manual-Kurita
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 August 2017, 14:18:24
Should be the Primitive, which is released
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wrangler on 23 August 2017, 17:49:47
I think it's best just keep Primitives around and use them as the replacements.  least their more different in many cases than from the originals. I know that's not as cool, but this demi-decade annual disruptions for us is killing me.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: pheonixstorm on 23 August 2017, 19:33:57
No matter what happens it should be over in under 4 years.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 August 2017, 19:35:52
Well, the project I put off last year is going to get done this year . . . I am making a Warhammer 7M and a Marauder 2R/3R/3D/etc based off of bits.  If I can find my tacky I will be posting a picture of how I intend to put the Warhammer together . . . I probably should have bought a Hammerhands CT but got a prim Tbolt torso instead.
Title: Re: Any updates for the Wasp?
Post by: Wotan on 25 August 2017, 07:39:08
Should I phone my gameshop and tell them that they can remove the Wasp?
https://www.fantasywelt.de/Wasp-WSP-1A-Mech-20-Tons-Combat-Manual-Kurita

As you see it is not available at the moment. You can order, but you will not get it.
I still wait for mine for months now ...  :'(