BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: Dayton3 on 04 May 2017, 08:48:18
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This might've been addressed before. I might've even started a thread a couple of years ago about it but I don't remember.
What are your preferred mech weapons combinations and for what reasons?
I've always been partial of the Gauss rifle/extended range PPC combination Both long range. ballistic/energy, low heat/high heat, thunder/lightning. And backed up by some medium lasers for close range work.
One reason I love the load outs of the Caesar and Falconer to name just two.
And I tend to love combinations that involve the LB-10X. In particular I've always heard that once you use the LB-10X cluster rounds to "sand off armor, your lasers will cut right through it". So I'm pretty fond of an array of medium lasers along with an LB-10X.
Though I've also been intriqued by the Cataphract due to the LB-10X and the Ultra AC-5.
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ER-PPCs, LB-10-X, Gauss Rifles, Paired with iATM's
iATMS are silly.
For light and mediums without the tonnage for that, ER-PPCs, PPC Capacitors, and Improved Heavy Medium Lasers.
I like a Laser AMS on just about everything too.
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HPPC/LBX10. Same punch in the same amounts (10/15) as Gauss/ERPPC, but you have the added bonus of shotgun shells. Sure, it's a little shorter ranged, but it's also a little lighter.
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By "HPPC" are you referring to the "Heavy PPC"? Same damage as the Clan ER PPC?
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In 3025, it's either LRMs or a PPC plus Medium Lasers, with or without an additional specialty weapon of some sort. The LRM or PPC give you stand-off capability, with LRMs offering indirect fire and extended range at the price of needing ammo. The Large Laser and the AC/10 provide decent alternatives for some situations. Once you get in closer, the ML pretty much rules in terms of overall weight/damage/heat efficiency.
Typically, I prefer to have some "specialization" to each design, where they carry a weapon (or ammo) for specific purposes, such as Machineguns, Flamers, AC/2s, Flak ammo, SRMs/Infernos, or anything else with a "niche" role. In a company-sized force, there should be enough of those specialists to cover nearly any contingency.
Once you get into the Clan and post-invasion eras, the addition of double heatsinks and myriads of additional weapon types (Pulse lasers, Streak racks, ER, Ultra, and LBX versions of existing weapons, Plasma weapons, and so on) makes things more complicated, so you need even more variety to cover more potential situations. Generally speaking, I normally prefer one high-heat energy weapon and one low heat ballistic weapon, with plenty of infighting weapons for backup.
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I like to keep mixing things up. About 85% of weapons have some value, so I don't like to keep myself to just GRs (honestly, I've never been the biggest fan of the things since the MechWarrior 2 video game) or LRMs or MPLs or anything else.
That said, there are a few combos that I've found that work well.
Clan MPLs and Streak SRMs are a great pairing, since they both range out to 12, MPLs punch holes well enough that the SRMs can seek crits, and being streak and pulse you can fire often and get hits without driving up the heat too bad. Clan AC20s also range to 12 and also pair well with those weapons, but they're so heavy only specialized large close combat mechs can do that (Turkina C, Dire Wolf S, etc).
IS LRMs with medium lasers is just a pure no brainer, since the MLs hit medium range right as the LRMs hit their minimum. Yes, its been done to death, but damn it works.
There's more, probably, but sometimes its the unexpected ones that really make you smile (I'm thinking MRMs with heavy lasers for the inaccuracy mech of the year).
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There's more, probably, but sometimes its the unexpected ones that really make you smile (I'm thinking MRMs with heavy lasers for the inaccuracy mech of the year).
"And this year's award for unintentional landscape redesign goes to ..."
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By "HPPC" are you referring to the "Heavy PPC"? Same damage as the Clan ER PPC?
Yes.
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Spheroids:
ER large laser and ultra AC/5. No, their range brackets don't match, but overall they have similar reach. Besides, it is much rarer combo than the vaunted (though effective certainly) (ER) PPC+LB-10X AC.
Clans:
ER large laser and LB-5X. Very well matching range brackets. Punch a hole, fill it with lead.
Ultra AC/5 and LRMs. Neatly matching brackets, fills both "more dakka" and "fire all the missiles" checkboxes.
And the the LB-10X and ER PPC combo. The Thor Prime is one my favorites after all...
Mixed:
None come to mind but i really want that that Heavy Laser+MRM combo, just because. Hilarious damage output but doesn't hit anywhere.
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I compensate for my tactical ineptitude by turning the battle into a mudwrestling match. I like Big short ranges backed up by gauss / LRM spam and fast physical attackers.
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What hasn't been mentioned but inspired by the Axman thread, what do people here consider the best weapons to combine in a mech with a melee weapon (axe, hatchet)
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What hasn't been mentioned but inspired by the Axman thread, what do people here consider the best weapons to combine in a mech with a melee weapon (axe, hatchet)
You generally only have 1 hatchet, while many many mechs have 2 or ever 3 say PPCs or Large Laser variants.
Against many opponents the Axeman will get wasted before it even gets in range.
The Place I would choose an Axeman is Urban Combat, Blind Alleys, Hiding in Buildings, with ECM, the 3S specifically.
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Long range weapon in the arm with the axe/hatchet to save space and room. I would say....SRM-6 on one of the other locations to exploit the big punch in the armor by the axe. So, SRM to complement the axe in melee.
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A little more unconventional, but for the 3025 period I've become a fan of the humble Large Laser instead of its bigger and more popular PPC brother. I overlooked canon designs such as the Wolverine-M and Marauder-M for much of the two decades I've been playing on and off, but can really appreciate how the lower weight and lack of minimum range synergizes well in terms added close in defense as well as extra ML/HS/whatevs that can sometimes turn a challenging design into a much more fearsome one. It pairs well with Medium Lasers, SRMs, and Heavier Autocannons to help give some reach that might otherwise be lacking, and it doesn't work too bad with LRM-boats that want to focus more on ranged weapons while still having a reasonably decent energy gun that can be used if the enemy gets too close. It's not sexy, but it is versatile.
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The Marauder M may be overlooked sometimes, but at least these parts no one will say the Wolverine M is anything but beloved. Its a name that comes up often in "best mech of 3025" discussions, and I'm often the one to put its name forward (if I win the race to).
As to the Heavy Laser/MRM combo, most tactics that work with HLs works with MRMs and vice versa. Park a thus armed heavy three hexes from a traditional long ranged all big gun assault, plant your feet and hold the fire button down. A brace of heavy lasers could make a great big hole to plug 30 or 40 MRMs into. Maybe make it a C3 spotter, let its mates rain down a bit of bonus fire.
Somehow, I see this working really well (which is to say ridiculously, because it's crazy and the mech is crazy, which is the point) on the Hellbringer II. Pair of HLLs and 60 or 80 MRMs?
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For light mechs Medium Lasers and SRMs go together like steak and potatoes. Medium Lasers make the holes and the SRMs find the crits.
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I don't want to start an entirely separate thread but I was wondering, what is the smallest weapon you can use for a successful "head capping' attack? That is destroying the cockpit of an opposing mech, presumably killing the mechwarrior and allowing you to make off with a nearly intact mech for salvage and relatively easy repair.
I know people tend to think of a gauss rifle, PPC or heavy laser for such an attack, but IIRC in one of the novels someone did it to another mech with an LRM-15. And I've wondered if multiple medium lasers could do it.
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I don't want to start an entirely separate thread but I was wondering, what is the smallest weapon you can use for a successful "head capping' attack? That is destroying the cockpit of an opposing mech, presumably killing the mechwarrior and allowing you to make off with a nearly intact mech for salvage and relatively easy repair.
I know people tend to think of a gauss rifle, PPC or heavy laser for such an attack, but IIRC in one of the novels someone did it to another mech with an LRM-15. And I've wondered if multiple medium lasers could do it.
You don't even need to break through the armor if you hit the head enough times with small damage hits, the pilot will die of the impacts...in one game, my side took out an Annihilator with 4 or 5 head hits at 20 hexes in one round...three or four from UAC-2's and one group of 5 LRM's...
Ruger
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Assuming full head armor and no specialty armors and standard sized 'Mech, at least 12 points of damage need to be dealt to remove the head with one blow.
There are two weapons that deal exactly this amount of damage:
The Binary Laser (Blazer), and Enhanced ER PPC, the prototype form of the Clan ER PPC.
All others deal 15 or more, your traditional headcappers.
Otherwise, minimum damage to destroy cockpit/head is at least 10 damage total (again, assuming full armor) and then either rolling at least 8 to cause a critical and hitting the cockpit slot, or rolling 12 causing "limb/head blown off" result. Floating critical hits rule allows doing this with just one damage if you're very lucky (roll 2 for TAC, roll 12 for true hit location, and critical result as above).
Space and water help things along with breach checks, just one point of damage is enough to cause a breach check underwater or in vacuum. Breach=dead.
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There are a few mechs (mostly really light ones with crappy armor) that can be headcapped by 10 or even fewer points of damage. Perhaps the worst examples are the original STG-3R Stinger and WSP-1A Wasp, which can each be headcapped by a Clan ERML (4 armor, 3 IS)
Also, can an array-linked group of Heavy Machine Guns do it?
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Many things were already mentioned. And I like Dragon Fire: why choose between Gauss Rifle, LB-10X and ER PPC combos, when you can take three of them? Though, I dislike IS ER PPC a bit: 15 heat for 10 damage...
What was not mentioned: Large Lasers/PPCs of any kind+TarComp+missiles combos. Also, Clan ER Small laser spam+TarComp.
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Also, can an array-linked group of Heavy Machine Guns do it?
With four HMGs, the array can deal up to 12 damage. So, yes, it could headcap. But it will deal only 9 damage on average. Of course, that is 3 pilot hits right there...
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Also, can an array-linked group of Heavy Machine Guns do it?
Yes, though unlikely (8.3% probability). But even if it won't headcap, chances of KO are not bad, because each MG hit is treated separately.
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I've always been partial of the Gauss rifle/extended range PPC combination Both long range. ballistic/energy, low heat/high heat, thunder/lightning. And backed up by some medium lasers for close range work.
Great sniping combo for the SLDF/3050 era.
These are some of my favorites for 3025:
LRMs + MLs
PPCs + SRMs
MLs + MGs
PPC + Most any AC
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LRMs + MLs
PPCs + SRMs
MLs + MGs
PPC + Most any AC
I would add LL+AC/10
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No one has mentioned a rotary autocannon. What works best with them? My experience with them is nil.
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I prefer something that allows me to mess with the enemy, especially with their heat levels. Plasma weapons, infernos, even flamers. The more my opponent is unsure what he can shoot at me the better.
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No one has mentioned a rotary autocannon. What works best with them? My experience with them is nil.
I would have to go ERMLs, or Plasma Rifle, or perhaps a PPC of some type
Stuff w/ similar range & no ammo to back up the boom stick.
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(Improved) Heavy Large Laser would work very well with IS RAC/5. The HLL punches holes and the RAC exploits them. Both share range brackets.
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There are a few mechs (mostly really light ones with crappy armor) that can be headcapped by 10 or even fewer points of damage. Perhaps the worst examples are the original STG-3R Stinger and WSP-1A Wasp, which can each be headcapped by a Clan ERML (4 armor, 3 IS)
Of course, its arguable that if you find yourself in either 'Mech against the Clans, your problems go way beyond the threat of headcapping...
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No one has mentioned a rotary autocannon. What works best with them? My experience with them is nil.
I find with RACs you either love them or hate them. An IS RAC suffers from the lack of range that all IS weapons do when you are comparing them to Clan weaponry. Against a IS opponent I don't find there is a poor platform, but ideally you have a faster mech to get into an optimum position. What most RAC platforms lack though is solid second weapon system to punch holes in the target. As such they are relagated a supporting unit in the case of a RAC/5. RAC/2s are of a bit more dubious value. It gives you a decent crit seeking weapon at range 18, but how much do you really want to waste on 8 tons for medium to long range crit seeker?
Clan model RACs have better range to make them more attractive, but you can mount other weapons to get comparable damage and/or better preformance. I like the concept of the Kraken XR, but it doesn't have enough ammo to continue sustained bursts.
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I find with RACs you either love them or hate them. An IS RAC suffers from the lack of range that all IS weapons do when you are comparing them to Clan weaponry. Against a IS opponent I don't find there is a poor platform, but ideally you have a faster mech to get into an optimum position. What most RAC platforms lack though is solid second weapon system to punch holes in the target. As such they are relagated a supporting unit in the case of a RAC/5. RAC/2s are of a bit more dubious value. It gives you a decent crit seeking weapon at range 18, but how much do you really want to waste on 8 tons for medium to long range crit seeker?
Its a bit off topic, but, this talk of hole punch v/s crit seeking has me wondering something.
What size do you all consider a damage grouping to be a crit seeker v/s hole puncher?
Myself I'm thinking 1-3 Damage is a Crit Seeker since you tend to see those groups in lighter weapon options for lots of them and crit seeking is less about size of the hit than it is sheer volumes of hits.
4-7 To me is more "Sand Blasting" as you can get those size hits in volume but they are also taking away decent chunks of armor at the same time.
8-9 I'm unsure how to qualify the IS LL family (and LtGR & Med Range Snubbie).
Sand Blaster?? Hole Puncher?? Some 3rd name??
10-25 Clear Hole Punching here.
(Dayton feel free to tell me to move to new topic, but its only partially off topic since its about weapon combos)
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I like pairing basically any weapon that can do 10+ damage in one block with any weapon that can cause three or more crit checks.
ERLL, ERPPC, GR, etc.
HAG, LB-X, Missiles, etc.
I am also a fan of weapons that are both dangerous, and have significant utility. MMLs for example have a wide array of ammo types for all occasions, and as such are one of my favorite crit weapons. I am also partial to the Plasma weapons for all the shiny things they can do.
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Its a bit off topic, but, this talk of hole punch v/s crit seeking has me wondering something.
What size do you all consider a damage grouping to be a crit seeker v/s hole puncher?
Myself I'm thinking 1-3 Damage is a Crit Seeker since you tend to see those groups in lighter weapon options for lots of them and crit seeking is less about size of the hit than it is sheer volumes of hits.
4-7 To me is more "Sand Blasting" as you can get those size hits in volume but they are also taking away decent chunks of armor at the same time.
8-9 I'm unsure how to qualify the IS LL family (and LtGR & Med Range Snubbie).
Sand Blaster?? Hole Puncher?? Some 3rd name??
10-25 Clear Hole Punching here.
(Dayton feel free to tell me to move to new topic, but its only partially off topic since its about weapon combos)
For me, it's less about damage per and more about total number of hits. So in my mind, something really ferocious like an MRM40 or ATM12 can function in that crit seeking role, and I'll happily pair them with PPCs and big ACs in the crit seeking role. Even massed LRM racks can do that, though its hard to work on one mech aside from high end Clan assaults.
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So you'd call the Nova Prime or Turkina D a critseeker?
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Gauss rifle, ER PPC, ER/standard medium lasers
ER PPCs/LLs and SRMs (helloooo Juliano! 8) )
Heavy PPCs and LBXs/RAC-5s resonate with me on a primeval level :D
Long range weapon in the arm with the axe/hatchet to save space and room. I would say....SRM-6 on one of the other locations to exploit the big punch in the armor by the axe. So, SRM to complement the axe in melee.
The big axe hit comes AFTER the weapons damage phase, so it really finishes the job more than starting it. Hence you want to carry a lot of 5-point 'sandblaster' weapons that can degrade armour all over the enemy Mech so that when you're finally close enough to land an axe hit, wherever it hits, it will hammer through that last 15-20 points and sever the limb or at least expose internals in 1 stroke.
No one has mentioned a rotary autocannon. What works best with them? My experience with them is nil.
Play with it. It's mad fun :D a RAC/2 is best used to snipe while a RAC/5 is a relative heavy-hitter, configure accordingly with ER lasers/PPCs.
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So you'd call the Nova Prime or Turkina D a critseeker?
Nova, probably no, since you usually only get 5-7 shots from the whole mech (though I still fire it after a Hellstar). Turk D, 100%. More crit chances than an LB20 in close, after all. Granted, sometimes you don't need to check for crits because the shear damage just vaporized the target, but to me, the Turk D is an above average crit seeker.
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While we're on the subject what 'mechs do you feel offers the chance of inflicting the most damage at short, medium and long ranges respectively?
From what I know, the Kodiak (Ultra AC/20, 8 ER Medium lasers, & 2 SRM-6s) can inflict a whopping 80 points of damage at short range.
While I'm much less familiar with long range weapons load outs I would wager the Warhawk Prime (4 ER PPCs, LRM-10) which can inflict 70 points at long range would be right up there.
Not a clue about medium range.
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While I'm much less familiar with long range weapons load outs I would wager the Warhawk Prime (4 ER PPCs, LRM-10) which can inflict 70 points at long range would be right up there.
I will see your Warhawk Prime and raise you a Bane 3; for when you absolutely, positively, need to fire all the missiles. All of them. All the Missiles.
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While we're on the subject what 'mechs do you feel offers the chance of inflicting the most damage at short, medium and long ranges respectively?
From what I know, the Kodiak (Ultra AC/20, 8 ER Medium lasers, & 2 SRM-6s) can inflict a whopping 80 points of damage at short range.
While I'm much less familiar with long range weapons load outs I would wager the Warhawk Prime (4 ER PPCs, LRM-10) which can inflict 70 points at long range would be right up there.
Not a clue about medium range.
The Atlas AS8-D can unleash 134 points of damage at short range but hitting with the light PPCs at short range is tricky. On the Clan side of things the Turkina Z can unleash 144 points of damage with the ATMs alone.
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I never realized any Atlas variant could inflict that level of damage.
I'm only vaguely familiar with the Bane and Turkina.
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The Akuma AKU-2XK is also pretty potent, 118 if it can hit with everything including a HPPC.
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Lately, I've been tinkering with SRM4 and LRM10 combos for some odd reason. Just customized a Timbie B and have a customized Omni Gladiator H chassis with the twin Srm4s and a single LRM10 on each arm. Kinda like a big bully Commando with range.
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2 Plasma Cannons and a Centurion weapon system. Raise their heat by an average of between 4 and 15 (the max you can artificially raise it by) and then force a shutdown roll check as if their heat were 15 points higher than it is.
ecm narc beacons and ARAD missiles. Put them in a hostile ecm they can't easily escape, and make them easier to hit at the same time.
Bola narc pods and melee weapons. Disable their limbs and then hack them apart while they can't escape or defend against it.
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I prefer PPCs and more PPCs to be honest. ;D
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I prefer PPCs and more PPCs to be honest. ;D
Can't disagree there. It certainly keeps things simpler. Long range. Just stand still and cut loose until the heat level gets too high.
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Ahhh yes, Steiner PPC, Kurita PPC, Davion PPC, floor.
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Ahhh yes, Steiner PPC, Kurita PPC, Davion PPC, floor.
If you can make it through three, you're a hero.
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I never realized any Atlas variant could inflict that level of damage.
I'm only vaguely familiar with the Bane and Turkina.
The Bane III (Kraken III) has 8 LRM 15s and a one shot SRM4. So yes, if you want to blot out the sun on your opponent, firing 120 missiles (you will build up some heat firing them all) in a turn, will do it...
Fair warning about the Bane III. Due to threat assessment, it becomes target number one AND the fact that it is a HUGE ammo dump waiting to be detonated. The counter to being target number one? Indirect fire with a spotter is your friend...
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The Bane III (Kraken III) has 8 LRM 15s and a one shot SRM4. So yes, if you want to blot out the sun on your opponent, firing 120 missiles (you will build up some heat firing them all) in a turn, will do it...
Fair warning about the Bane III. Due to threat assessment, it becomes target number one AND the fact that it is a HUGE ammo dump waiting to be detonated. The counter to being target number one? Indirect fire with a spotter is your friend...
So wouldn't the correct tactic with the Bane III be to burn through your ammo as quickly as possible and then start pulling out?
How deep are its ammo bins?
Another question. IIRC ALL Clan machines automatically come with CASE for their ammo storage. But shouldn't there become a point where CASE is no longer capable of saving a 'mech in case of an ammo explosion? It doesn't make sense to me that the same system that saves a 'mech from one ton of ammo exploding can do the same with five or six tons of ammo exploding.
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How deep are its ammo bins?
From a quick check, the Bane III has 8 tons of potential embarrassment in each side torso.
Another question. IIRC ALL Clan machines automatically come with CASE for their ammo storage. But shouldn't there become a point where CASE is no longer capable of saving a 'mech in case of an ammo explosion? It doesn't make sense to me that the same system that saves a 'mech from one ton of ammo exploding can do the same with five or six tons of ammo exploding.
As I understand it, the concept is frangible panels on the back of each ammo bin, so that the blast is channelled easily and reasonably painlessly outwards. Theoretically, if each ton is treated as a separate, panel-adjacent bin, that should do the job. I can see your point, though!
(This should mean that standing behind a Bane III as the enemy closes is an interesting proposition, but I'm not sure that there are any rules for the CASE Claymore effect.)
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AC10 for the punch plus SRM6 for peppering
Basically a bigger weapon for opening up locations - I prefer the AC10 over the PPC for that due to no problems at short range.
Then a crit seeker, which also doubles as a motion system crit seeker against vehicles - SRM6 will do it, though I would prefer multiple SRM2 when possible.
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From a quick check, the Bane III has 8 tons of potential embarrassment in each side torso.
As I understand it, the concept is frangible panels on the back of each ammo bin, so that the blast is channelled easily and reasonably painlessly outwards. Theoretically, if each ton is treated as a separate, panel-adjacent bin, that should do the job. I can see your point, though!
(This should mean that standing behind a Bane III as the enemy closes is an interesting proposition, but I'm not sure that there are any rules for the CASE Claymore effect.)
Wonder what would happen to a Clan Elemental if they were still mounted on a Bane (or any ammo heavy mech) and a lucky shot set off the ammo.
Though I guess Clan combined arms doctrine was for Elementals to dismount well before that was likely to happen though.
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Wonder what would happen to a Clan Elemental if they were still mounted on a Bane (or any ammo heavy mech) and a lucky shot set off the ammo.
I'm not sure, but it might be fun to watch!
(Maybe it would become a new prototype Land-Air-Elemental?)
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I prefer PPCs and more PPCs to be honest. ;D
That's Awesome! 8)
I'm not sure, but it might be fun to watch!
(Maybe it would become a new prototype Land-Air-Elemental?)
More like shrapnel.
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So I am tired, and it's the end of the work week, but when I read a few comments above ending with Land-Air Elementals, for some reason in my head I got the idea you all were talking about a Bane that fired Elementals out of it's launchers as if they were ammo.
I may need to go to sleep.
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So I am tired, and it's the end of the work week, but when I read a few comments above ending with Land-Air Elementals, for some reason in my head I got the idea you all were talking about a Bane that fired Elementals out of it's launchers as if they were ammo.
I may need to go to sleep.
I'm fairly certain it exists out there as someone's publicized AU. Assuming I get around to it this weekend I will go looking through my bookmarks I will post the link if I find it.
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So wouldn't the correct tactic with the Bane III be to burn through your ammo as quickly as possible and then start pulling out?
That is the plan.
How deep are its ammo bins?
It has 16 tons of ammo. Or to break that down further it is enough to shoot off 1 ton of ammo per turn with a cool down every two to three turns if you don't want to incur the +1 modifier of from heat.
Another question. IIRC ALL Clan machines automatically come with CASE for their ammo storage. But shouldn't there become a point where CASE is no longer capable of saving a 'mech in case of an ammo explosion? It doesn't make sense to me that the same system that saves a 'mech from one ton of ammo exploding can do the same with five or six tons of ammo exploding.
While in reality this is true, CASE is an item that exists as in a fantasy of abstractions. As such it over simplifies what could happen. Even if the mech survives the initial catastrophic explosion, a couple different chain reactions are likely to occur:
1) The possibility of a chain reaction from an additional critical hit.
2) The pilot is going to take 2 hits from the initial explosion and possibly more.
3) There is a heat spike that will occur that may cause a heat threshold check for an ammo explosion which brings us back to #2. You could thus say it could be absolutely glorious meltdown when the tent goes up in flames.
Wonder what would happen to a Clan Elemental if they were still mounted on a Bane (or any ammo heavy mech) and a lucky shot set off the ammo.
Though I guess Clan combined arms doctrine was for Elementals to dismount well before that was likely to happen though.
Unless elementals are swarming a Bane, they shouldn't be mounted on one since it is not an omni mech.
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That is the plan.
It has 16 tons of ammo. Or to break that down further it is enough to shoot off 1 ton of ammo per turn with a cool down every two to three turns if you don't want to incur the +1 modifier of from heat.
While in reality this is true, CASE is an item that exists as in a fantasy of abstractions. As such it over simplifies what could happen. Even if the mech survives the initial catastrophic explosion, a couple different chain reactions are likely to occur:
1) The possibility of a chain reaction from an additional critical hit.
2) The pilot is going to take 2 hits from the initial explosion and possibly more.
3) There is a heat spike that will occur that may cause a heat threshold check for an ammo explosion which brings us back to #2. You could thus say it could be absolutely glorious meltdown when the tent goes up in flames.
Unless elementals are swarming a Bane, they shouldn't be mounted on one since it is not an omni mech.
Good point. Though IIRC during the Wolf Dragoons Civil War the Dragoon elementals under the command of Elson Novacat mounted themselves on some 'mechs using simple welded handholds. If the Dragoons could do this I simply assumed the Clanners could too.
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Good point. Though IIRC during the Wolf Dragoons Civil War the Dragoon elementals under the command of Elson Novacat mounted themselves on some 'mechs using simple welded handholds. If the Dragoons could do this I simply assumed the Clanners could too.
I don't see as there is any reason it shouldn't be a thing in universe either. The explanation that is out there for why normal mechs can't simply be modified the same way has to do with some blanket reasoning about weight distribution and the way omni mechs are constructed and possibly gyros calibrated as compared to a standard battle mech. I could be wrong and someone can feel free to correct me. That is part of the reason we have magnetic clamps rules that we have now. Even if they don't really make sense.
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Also battle armor can swarm normal BattleMechs, so there are things to hold onto, as long as it isn't trying to get you off of it. Just declare a swarm against the friendly 'Mech and decline to inflict damage with it.
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So I am tired, and it's the end of the work week, but when I read a few comments above ending with Land-Air Elementals, for some reason in my head I got the idea you all were talking about a Bane that fired Elementals out of it's launchers as if they were ammo.
I may need to go to sleep.
That's the Bane-AGM introduced by the rather unknown, but very volatile, Clan Angry Marines who are always angry, all the time. Their wartime salute involves a central digit upgraised at the enemy. There is a rumor that they are the not-named clan returning from revenge, but it turns out that they were created to hunt them down.
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LRMs and more LRMs. >:D
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LRMs and more LRMs. >:D
LRMs, yes. But have other things that can kill when your LRM equipped mech is closed with.
I like 2 LRM-15s with 4 ML (I am a Catapult-C1 fan).
2 (er)LL plus a couple of medium lasers o medium pulse.
2 (er)PPCs and some back up weapons for in close.
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LRMs, yes. But have other things that can kill when your LRM equipped mech is closed with.
Like another 'Mech 7 hexes away? >:D
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The Atlas AS8-D can unleash 134 points of damage at short range but hitting with the light PPCs at short range is tricky. On the Clan side of things the Turkina Z can unleash 144 points of damage with the ATMs alone.
Did you include any TSM melee attacks in that? Because weapon-wise I only see 2 Light PPCs (10 pts), 4 small lasers (12 pts), 2 MML 9 (max 36 pts), RAC 5 (max 30 pts), Snub PPC (10 pts), so in total a maximum of 98 pts at short range.
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Did you include any TSM melee attacks in that? Because weapon-wise I only see 2 Light PPCs (10 pts), 4 small lasers (12 pts), 2 MML 9 (max 36 pts), RAC 5 (max 30 pts), Snub PPC (10 pts), so in total a maximum of 98 pts at short range.
Well yeah, a nice kick is part of it's package!
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Well yeah, a nice kick is part of it's package!
I see, we have very different definitions of SHORT range. ;)
In that case you would loose one of the small lasers and would be at 135.
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Old Days I love a nice combo of one or more large LRM racks, some medium lasers and maybe a PPC. I'm a huge fan of Indirect Fire.
Newer days: Large LRM racks, Medium lasers of some flavor, an LB-X and/or Standard or Large PPC. I'm also a big fan of a Narc-equipped spotter. See the previous entry for why. ;)
Clans: I just don't play them much, but the combo of Medium lasers of some flavor, LRMs, SRMs (preferably streak) and an LB-X and/or ER PPC is about the same. HAGs are kind of intriguing, though require too much weight dedicated to ammo, and they're just not that great at range, which is what I love about gauss weaponry.
Re: Melee 'Mechs - I like backing them up with some medium to long range weapon (The AXM-2N's LRMs are a better choice than the AC/20, if the ammo bins weren't so shallow) though something that could come into play up close would be better. ER PPCs, or Large lasers of some flavor come to mind as working well but I'd avoid traditional-ranged PPCs (Light/Regular/Heavy) because you get crippled at the ranges you'd bring your axe to bear. I'm no fan of Snubnose PPCs, but those would actually work semi-decently on an axe-packer. I also wouldn't look down on a Large X-Pulse Laser, particularly if said 'Mech has TSM. Which makes me think about throwing together a TSM/Light engine modded Axman with X-Pulse lasers....
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I'm a big fan of the 5-10-15 range bracket because there are so many weapons that can pair up nicely:
LL, AC/10, Plasma Rifle, RAC/5, Blazer, LAC/5, RE LL, HLL, Thunderbolts, Bombast Laser, LXPL
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I'm a big fan of the 5-10-15 range bracket because there are so many weapons that can pair up nicely:
LL, AC/10, Plasma Rifle, RAC/5, Blazer, LAC/5, RE LL, HLL, Thunderbolts, Bombast Laser, LXPL
Don't forget TAG :D
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Don't forget TAG :D
TAG isn't 5/10/15.
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TAG isn't 5/10/15.
I always forget it's medium range is 9 instead of 10 lol.
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It pairs well with the Snub Nosed PPC, trying to stay at 9 hexes exactly.
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I play almost exclusively 3025 - early clan invasion into level tech. In that late succession wars era my favorite weapon combos are:
PPC at range, medium lasers in close
LRM's at range, medium lasers in close
Large lasers, they go with everything
PPC,LRM,Mlaser
I really like to pair inferno SRM's with all of these combos.
Any design refits or custom builds lean on a PPC and LRM as long range firepower backed up by as many Medium lasers as I can efficiently fit for once things close.
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LRM 15 + a main gun. The main gun may vary by the mech, and its role.
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LL + SRM IS forces.
ERL + MPL clan forces.
But just about anything, really!
TT
(Deadpan voice~ The Machine Gun... #P !)
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GAUSS RIFLE , and Homing Arrow IV to make holes and LB-X 10 and LRMs to exploit them.
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I prefer something that allows me to mess with the enemy, especially with their heat levels. Plasma weapons, infernos, even flamers. The more my opponent is unsure what he can shoot at me the better.
Couple this with a Centurion Weapon System for extra fun as that functional means any 'Mech is actually 14 heat further up the scale.
Another combo I'm toying around with is ER Large Laser & RISC Pulse Module + MML9 on a tank, as a sort of upgraded Manticore.
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So you'd call the Nova Prime or Turkina D a critseeker?
Take a look at the Turk E. The HAG 40 is almost superfluous.
I don't see as there is any reason it shouldn't be a thing in universe either. The explanation that is out there for why normal mechs can't simply be modified the same way has to do with some blanket reasoning about weight distribution and the way omni mechs are constructed and possibly gyros calibrated as compared to a standard battle mech. I could be wrong and someone can feel free to correct me. That is part of the reason we have magnetic clamps rules that we have now. Even if they don't really make sense.
Or swarm a friendly in one turn then and then simply elect not to fire any weapons in the following turn. If you note TW, page 223, "If the swarming infantry unit stays on the ’Mech, it may make normal arm-mounted weapon attacks."
Based on some simulations I ran a while back, there is an appeal to massed LRM-5 racks over the larger launchers, especially 20's. In both IS and Clan tech, there is always a weight savings in using an equivalent number of LRM-5's over 10's, 15's or 20's, and in the case of the IS LRM-20, you also save a crit. Caveat, the weight/size advantage does not apply to eLRM's or nLRM's.
I ran some monte-carlo simulations that randomly selected a THN, rolled 2D6 for one LRM20. Misses were treated as 0 damage, but hits were checked against the Cluster Hits table. Then it used the same THN number for 4 LRM-5's, and treated the results the same. I don't recall which one came out on top but I do recall that difference after a million or so comparisons was on the order of 0.1 points of damage.
This scheme also has some advantages. Instead of a single 4 crit Clan LRM-20, you now have 4, 1 crit weapons. You can take a critical hit, lose a launcher and keep sending hate and discontent down range, albeit at a lower volume.
The size and weight advantages break down once Artemis comes into play. The weigh/size advantage holds for MRM's and Streak LRM's but there is still some testing to see if the MRM's +1 THN, or the Streak-ness changes the results.
The downside, however is heat. LRM-15 and-20 racks are cooler than equivalent LRM-5's. This becomes a bigger deal if you replace a Salamander's IS 3 LRM-20's at 18 Heat with 15 LRM-5's at 30 heat :o .
Which brings me to something else that I haven't seen mentioned. TSM has it's uses on non-melee 'mechs. Use it on heat hogs, to get out of dodge. Instead of designing so that you can alpha or fire several brackets and stay under +5 Heat, so that you can run away and cool off, aim to be +10-13 Heat after a salvo. Instead of being -2MP, you are now +1. The GTFO maneuver just got a bit easier.
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Personally I'm a big fan of using IS LBX-10s and standard PPCs together. They have matched ranges and give you a nice one-two punch combined with the ability to both hole poke and crit-seek at the same time for not a lot of heat.
Once the tech level advances, replacing the PPC with an HPPC gives a nice increase in firepower.
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Give me something in 3025 with an LRM15 and SRM4 mix. Or LRM 15, SRM4, PPC, Maybe some sprinkles and MLs on top.
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MRM-40s and C3 slaves.
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Personally I'm a big fan of using IS LBX-10s and standard PPCs together. They have matched ranges and give you a nice one-two punch combined with the ability to both hole poke and crit-seek at the same time for not a lot of heat.
Once the tech level advances, replacing the PPC with an HPPC gives a nice increase in firepower.
If you have the heat sinks, I would vote for the ER PPC. That gives you extra turn or two to make some holes for the LB clusters to fill up.
Give me something in 3025 with an LRM15 and SRM4 mix. Or LRM 15, SRM4, PPC, Maybe some sprinkles and MLs on top.
That seems oddly familiar....
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There is a Clan Invasion Era combo that I tend to gravitate to:
1x ERPPC (arm)
1x Gauss Rifle (arm)
4x Medium Lasers (torso)
1x StreakSRM6 (torso)
I can sub a LB10-X for the GR if it's an OmniMech or something, but I really try and avoid more than one ammo location on a 'Mech if I can help it. GR ammo sorta doesn't count as much because it doesn't explode and GR weapon explosions might usually only cost you a limb if you arm-mount it.
You will probably recognize this as your basic 3025 evolutions upwards in 'Mech weights and class from Phoenix Hawk to Wolverine to Cronus to Star Slayer to Falconer/Lynx to Lau Hu progression. The ability to be effective in multiple range bands has always been something I look for. This can get you wasted sometimes, though. :D As the 'Mech weight goes up or down, I just like to substitute lighter or heavier versions of this basic default pattern if I'm assuming no other mission requirements.