Clan repairs and salvage efforts

[Raven Claw]

We know the clans are high up there if not on the top when it comes to not wasting anything.
With omnimechs being much easier to replace parts and do major repairs on, I was wondering to what extent
would a second line mech have to be damaged before deciding it was not worth repairing and instead salvage it
for parts and raw materials.  Like how many limbs or torsos would have to be lost since they are not modular like
their omnimech brethren

[Stormfury]

There are rules for determining "Destroyed" (most in-game 'Mech kills) as opposed to "Truly Destroyed."

Anything that was just "Destroyed" can be repaired.

Anything that was "Truly Destroyed" (requiring the destruction of all Centre Torso internal structure) can only be scrapped for parts. If there's anything left at all.

As a result, most damage can be repaired. So it's mostly a cost/benefit analysis. Theoretically, a 20-tonner with every item on board destroyed, all armour and internal structure marked off but for one point remaining in the centre torso can be rebuilt if you really want to spend the time, effort, and materials to do so.

In practice, there's not much point to doing that and the wreck should probably just be rendered down for parts. The other thing to be factored in is whether it's a design that brings prestige, like an Orion IIC or a DishonourMobile like the Bowman. The former is pretty much garaunteed a rebuild, while the latter is less likely to be returned to service. I suspect most Clans would be more inclined to rebuild things that use the Clan technology base than their SLDF relics due to compatibility issues, too.

Mostly a case-by-case basis, unfortunately. I guess if a rule of thumb is really needed, maybe they rebuild as long as at least 10% of the 'Mech's centre torso internal structure remains or something?

[snewsom2997]

They would strip it bare, of anything of use, metal can be recycled, if a CT was cored or a Head Capped, the rest would be salvaged. The only thing I think would negate any salvage would be a fusion overload, Uncommon, and even ammo explosions unless the cascade would leave some usable parts to salvage.

[Raven Claw]

That whole thing about the prestige is something to think about. I know they said they would love to get a hold of any Atlas II they find.
I don't see any organized body in the Battletech universe that would just abandon equipment if they could go back to the battlefield afterwards.

Is there a cost for BIG repairs in one of the manuals some place? Like lets say I had a Stone Rhino which lost both arms, a torso and a leg.
Would they go through the effort to repair it or just dismantle/salvage whats left to go to other uses?  And what if it was a mech like the
Black Python? since it has that huge 375 XL engine, I bet that would be somewhat costly to repair as well.

[Diablo48]

Another major possibility is that the damaged 'Mech may be dumped in a corner somewhere and left as is until there is a need to gut it to repair a "better" machine or enough other parts to fully rebuild it.  After all, if there is no reason to commit you may as well put off the decision until there is a need to be addressed.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Fluff indicates that the Clans will keep repairing things as long as they can, most of the time.

[Stormlion1]

Even a mech hulk can find new life as a training dummy for sibkos after all.

[Col.Hengist]

Fluff indicates that the Clans will keep repairing things as long as they can, most of the time.

 Unless the mech is deemed irelavent, like the woodsman.

 

[Stormlion1]

The Woodsman may have had a problem with a low production run, and a lack of spare parts to keep them operational. It would make more sense to retire the mech than keep producing new parts for it when the line could produce parts for other designs.

[SteveRestless]

Nah. when designs like the nova and summoner have been around forever, and the woodsman dies off (seriously, nobody else thought it might be a worthwhile mech to adopt? there were no clans who could use another solid heavy?) I have a hard time seeing it as anything but "Well, we've never had any of these around before... we've only mentioned it.... so we'll declare it extinct just so theres not this glaring flaw." meanwhile, there are still star league era designs in use with garrison forces, who would probably LOVE to have a used woodsman instead.

[snewsom2997]

Nah. when designs like the nova and summoner have been around forever, and the woodsman dies off (seriously, nobody else thought it might be a worthwhile mech to adopt? there were no clans who could use another solid heavy?) I have a hard time seeing it as anything but "Well, we've never had any of these around before... we've only mentioned it.... so we'll declare it extinct just so theres not this glaring flaw." meanwhile, there are still star league era designs in use with garrison forces, who would probably LOVE to have a used woodsman instead.

Maybe it wasn't shiny enough anymore, at the time maybe they didn't have the tail to keep them going in 2nd line units.
The Clans are fans of Big New Blasty Mechs. Maybe they are all locked away waiting for a Hellfire Style refit.

[Diablo48]

It is also possible that one or more of the newer omnis based off the Woodsman were able to share parts with it so most Woodsmen were scavenged to fix "better" machines when they could have been repaired.

[Col.Hengist]

It just doesn't fit with what's said above about rebuilding salvaged mechs. This mech must have a taint on it like an Archangel or a Septasemia for it to not be in use any more. Oh well, lots of people love this mech, anyone can use anything in their own games. As soon as they come out( and its supposed to be this month ) I'm gettin a star of them.

[SteveRestless]

It is also possible that one or more of the newer omnis based off the Woodsman were able to share parts with it so most Woodsmen were scavenged to fix "better" machines when they could have been repaired.

possible, but seems unlikely. the mechs that bear physical resemblance to it, the naga and the gargoyle are 5t heavier and faster,  meaning more internal structure, different reactor... the one that shares its tonnage, isn't very physically similar, and uses a different engine too.

at best, I can see the pods getting cannibalized for reconfiguring new Timber Wolf and Gargoyles

I'd love to see it reintroduced as an Omni partner for the Tundra Wolf, since they're both wolf 4/6[8] mechs

[Stormfury]

We went through all this in another thread that got locked. The Woodsman was being defeated with regularity in trials by more mobile designs like the Summoner and more powerful 'Mechs like the Warhawk. In order to stay out in front, the Wolves began designing a new series of Omnis that became the Timber Wolf, Gargoyle and Naga. The production lines for the Woodsman were refurbished to build the new machines, which began replacing the Woodsman in front-line commands until none remained.

[Diablo48]

We went through all this in another thread that got locked. The Woodsman was being defeated with regularity in trials by more mobile designs like the Summoner and more powerful 'Mechs like the Warhawk. In order to stay out in front, the Wolves began designing a new series of Omnis that became the Timber Wolf, Gargoyle and Naga. The production lines for the Woodsman were refurbished to build the new machines, which began replacing the Woodsman in front-line commands until none remained.

We know that much.  The question at hand is where did the old ones go because there are plenty of other 'Mechs that have stuck around for centuries after going out of production.

I personally think there was some commonality in parts with the newer designs because that would simplify the logistics of the upgrade and allow the old units to be scrapped to fix the newer ones, but I have no evidence to support this beyond the fact that it would be a sound engineering decision.

[SteveRestless]

We went through all this in another thread that got locked. The Woodsman was being defeated with regularity in trials by more mobile designs like the Summoner and more powerful 'Mechs like the Warhawk. In order to stay out in front, the Wolves began designing a new series of Omnis that became the Timber Wolf, Gargoyle and Naga. The production lines for the Woodsman were refurbished to build the new machines, which began replacing the Woodsman in front-line commands until none remained.

I'm still not satisfied with that line of 'explanation'. The Woodsman has held its own against Summoners rather well in megamek battles I've fought, summoner on woodsman, and its even done acceptably against warhawks, certainly no worse than timber wolves I've taken against the warhawk. I would have rather the woodsman be treated like the Royal Mechs that have been retroactively inserted into the game, where it turns out there have been some around after all, they're just very rare. I mean, what does it hurt to leave that opening to having them in modern-era play?

[Hawkeye Jim]

When they say a Mech was "retired", do they actually mean the machines are put in storage, or simply that no one makes them anymore, so when the last one in use falls, that's it? If the former, then there might still be Woodsmen  around, just stored somewhere. In which case, if a Clan got real short in mechs, they could dig them out and use them.


Certain the Burrocks/Dark Caste would certainly have done so.

[Stormfury]

I'm still not satisfied with that line of 'explanation'. The Woodsman has held its own against Summoners rather well in megamek battles I've fought, summoner on woodsman, and its even done acceptably against warhawks, certainly no worse than timber wolves I've taken against the warhawk. I would have rather the woodsman be treated like the Royal Mechs that have been retroactively inserted into the game, where it turns out there have been some around after all, they're just very rare. I mean, what does it hurt to leave that opening to having them in modern-era play?

Whatever works for your game. Canonically, all of them are gone.

It would probably help to have a look at Clan Wolf's equipment by the start of the Invasion to understand why the Woodsman met its demise. The most common machines are the Ice Ferret and Adder, with the Timber Wolf considered to be slow enough that a replacement was needed. A 4/8 [8] machine had to be replaced with 5/8 movers to compete with its contemporaries, and the same designs that were bought in for that duty were being outpaced so regularly their days were probably numbered without the Refusal War.

Regardless of the superiority of the design in the field (and the design's creator, IIRC Kit, admitted in the other thread that the machine should have been more flawed so the IC explanation made more sense) the perception of it was that it had failed and was costing them Trials.

When they say a Mech was "retired", do they actually mean the machines are put in storage, or simply that no one makes them anymore, so when the last one in use falls, that's it? If the former, then there might still be Woodsmen  around, just stored somewhere. In which case, if a Clan got real short in mechs, they could dig them out and use them.


Certain the Burrocks/Dark Caste would certainly have done so.

Per direct Word of Herb, none remain in any caches and the rumour that the Dark Caste has a Woodsman remains unverifiable at best.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Does the Woodsman have to be brought up every time? ::)

[SteveRestless]

Does the Woodsman have to be brought up every time? ::)

what can I say? I'm like a wolf with a bone.  :P

[Hawkeye Jim]

The reason I asked is that we know the Lupus was retired to storage as well as discontinued. perhaps other designs were as well. Normally they would simply retire the mechs to garrison units, not just store them.

[jklantern]

Does the Woodsman have to be brought up every time? ::)

They actually exist in line units, but they've been renamed the Necroequine.  And I'm sure someone else can come up with a much funnier name that's basically the same idea.

[SteveRestless]

They actually exist in line units, but they've been renamed the Necroequine.  And I'm sure someone else can come up with a much funnier name that's basically the same idea.

hah, I like it.

[greatsarcasmo]

Let's stay off the Woodsman here.
 [copper]

[Raven Claw]

I am also thinking of that one now obsolete early omni the ghost bears made that they practically "gave" away to the Blood Spirits, the Stupid Hawk.
The bears had better omnis than in every role and class so it was not worth making and maintaining the old hawk anymore when you have limited factories and resources to make and maintain so many other designs.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Dude, the Stooping Hawk rocks, it's one of the best medium omnis available.

[Col.Hengist]

I am also thinking of that one now obsolete early omni the ghost bears made that they practically "gave" away to the Blood Spirits, the Stupid Hawk.
The bears had better omnis than in every role and class so it was not worth making and maintaining the old hawk anymore when you have limited factories and resources to make and maintain so many other designs.

 Why do you call it the stupid hawk?

[Hawkeye Jim]

Sarna lists the Stooping Hawk as a Blood Spirits design.

[Col.Hengist]

Sarna lists the Stooping Hawk as a Blood Spirits design.

 It a bloodspirit mech,and a damn good one. the Bears designed it and rejected it.