Author Topic: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker  (Read 58785 times)

cold1

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #60 on: 01 February 2013, 16:02:51 »
First off I gotta say it... Ugliest mech ever!  Ok sorry had to get that out.

It's a pretty good machine and one of the classics that gets solid upgrades with new tech.

As for the NARC I get the argument for area denial, but the tons can be better used.  Now if you're a FWL fluff guy and want to have 3 Archers in the lance... well it's area denial but everything is faster than the Stalker and will keep out of NARC range, and proceed to pound it from there to kill the nARC carrier.  The Stalker can't avoid taking a massive beat down because it is slow.  And it would likely. E an early target if everything else on the board has missiles.


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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #61 on: 01 February 2013, 16:54:00 »
Nikas, you CAN have more than one NARC launcher in your forces. it's not like they have to be slaved into a network...oh, there's an idea. er, anyways.

the first response to the sight of a Stalker is always that it [REDACTED] on legs, but this unfortunate similarity to a back massager is far from the full extent of it's design. the frontal profile of the mech is absolutely tiny for an 85-ton battlemech and much of its armor is angled to spread the effectiveness of a frontal attack across it or simply force it to glance off. even the cockpit window blends into these lines, a long, narrow stripe of visibility that is almost impossible to target from the ground.

The downside to this is that the weapons are all aligned very close together, limiting the 'mechs ease in maintaining fire on multiple targets, but as the bulk of a Stalker's effectiveness it dependent on how well it melts a target into tactically meaningless slag this is something of a lesser issue. the LRMs are placed as high as possible on the mech without making them break from the overall lines of the 'mech and are in a good position for both direct and indirect fire, and the myriad of lasers a Stalker possesses are all deeply set into the armor.

the one point of contention in this design is the legs. they feet work well enough, as each is a borad hoof with a supporting brace "toe" extending back from the leg to keep the 'mech stable. however, as we  go past the seemingly poorly armored knee to the hip we run into the ongoing problem of "i have no idea what's going on here". earliest artwork depicting this 'mech was suffering from considerable failings of perspective, and as a result nearly every design since has had suspect design work in this area, with the way the legs even attach to the torso being in drastic flux on occasion. while it's somewhat presumptuous to do, i've included what my view on how the assembly operates as an example.

in conclusion, the Stalker's appearance is something of an acquired taste. the unusual design of the body and.....issues with depictions of the legs are easily reason to overlook this otherwise gruesomely effective design, but it does have it's own somewhat perverse charm if one can laugh at themselves.
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garhkal

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #62 on: 01 February 2013, 17:05:43 »
Ahh... the stalker..  What's not to love.
Though i never understood why when it DOES have arms (and arm mounted weaponry) it was always depicted as lackig them.

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Now, you don't have any rear mounted guns, but those arms can flip.  Four Medium Lasers bearing down on a bug that jumped behind you is pretty terrifying in 3025; you can also use the arm-mounted LRMs to lay down fire as you retreat (while the ammo lasts).

Never seen anyone do that before.. most use it to flip the MLs so they can smack a backbiter.

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The STK-3H is the first variant that shows up, and it is one that I really dislike.  This version removes the two Large Lasers to upgrade the LRM racks from -10s to -20s, while keeping everything else the same.  Sounds great, eh?  The problem is, they kept the same one ton of ammo per LRM launcher, giving you twelve total salvoes (6 rounds of fire), and then you are looking at having no guns that can hit anything at 10+ hexes.

Agreed.  It was a poor redesign.  Now had they used that to bump the LRMs to 15 packs, it would have done well imo.

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Next up is the STK-4N, debuting in 2876.  This model removes one LRM-10 and ammo magazine to increase the heat sinks to 26.  Sigh.  They couldn't have raised the heat sinks to 25 and given our remaining launcher two tons of ammo?  Your long-range firepower is cut in half, and practically, you are now oversinked.  LRM plus the twin Large Lasers plus running is 22.  Four Mediums plus two SRM-6 plus running is 22.  You could add the LRM-10 and be perfectly sinked, but you only started with 12 shots and if you are in SRM/Medium Laser range, then the LRM is probably at or under minimum range.

Never seen this variant used by anyone...  i mean anyone!

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A strange variant is the STK-4P, showing up in 2998.  Basically a complete rebuild, this version masses 75 tons, shedding 10 tons of weight.  It has 20 heat sinks, the same 13.5 tons of armor (arranged 35 on the center torso, 25 on the right and left torso, the arms have 23 each, the legs have 26 each, the head has 9, the center torso rear 10, and both rear side torsos 7), and uses an even lighter 225 standard Fusion engine.  All for the cost of some internal structure and one LRM launcher (leaving just a ton of ammo, AGAIN!).  Otherwise it has the same guns as the -4N.

personally i don't consider that a stalker..  but a stalker jr!

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The very first Star League tech version of the Stalker is one that we don't actually see in the game until just recently:  the Royal Stalker.  This model (the STK-3Fb)

I have used this one myself and love it..  i call it the sniper stalker.

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Sarna.net has the STK-3Fk listed as well (EDIT:  so does Era Reports:  2750, I'e been told).

Interesting mod..  Not sure if i like dropping 2 SRM 6s for just a pair of streak 2s.. especially with 2 tons of ammo...  Heck just 1 would rarely if ever be gone through.

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Starting with the STK-5M

like you i never understood putting on a narc for this one, and the most common 'field mod' i saw was dropping One of the 2 additional LRM tons for case..

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House Steiner's STK-5S took a different tack.

I think the steiner bro's were smoking some MJ when they made this one..

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The next model comes into service in 3062.  This is the STK-6M

When the GM allowed, (or whom ever we played with) i always liked to make this one sans ER mediums.. 

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Also debuting in 3062 is the STK-7D.

This one never screamed to me "STALKER BABY!"..  not with ER PPCs, standard fair for other assaults.

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The STK-8S appears in 3064, and it is VERY different from the classic Stalker.

Different indeed.  never used it (as i have yet to play many games set in that time frame), but i wouldn't mind giving it a whirl.

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The STK-7C3BS features a plethora of experimental tech.

Ohh.. A stalker actually using C3.. O0

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To be fair, in a matchup against an Atlas, you can't forget that the big 100 tonner also happens to have an LRM-20 to play with. If you're going by the Succession Wars standard model. They're not entirely helpless at long range. Both are excellent and well rounded proper assault 'Mechs.

Plus in several one on one engagements i have had using them that AC-20 of the atlas (or gauss rifle if using the variant that mounts it) has usually allowed said atlas to win the day..

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Another problem is presence of ECM on the battlefield since 3050s. From lights such as Raven, FS9-S1 Firestarter, Hermes I, Javelin, Scarabus to Heavies. Often very fast and/or jump-capable. And since ECM doeesn't need LOS to function, such 'Mechs are not easy to deal with. They can either jam link between Narced target and LRM-armed 'Mechs or make it so unreliable that it can't be counted on it.

Which is also a downer for artemis OR C3..
But until ECMs became common place, i am surprised there has been only 1 Stalker which mounted C3..

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #63 on: 01 February 2013, 17:10:39 »
So, something I forgot to add initially, but that has always bugged me about the Stalker: the name.  You can't "stalk" anything with an 85 ton mech moving, at best, 54 kph.  Well, okay, maybe you could stalk an Annihilator, an Urbanmech, or an Omega, but surely there was a more fitting name for this beast.

face it, they cant call it what looks like or the name would be Waddling Weenie
and the famous pilot would be Ben Dover and his mech the Holmes
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #64 on: 01 February 2013, 18:18:41 »
face it, they cant call it what looks like or the name would be Waddling Weenie
and the famous pilot would be Ben Dover and his mech the Holmes

I wouldn't worry. In this case it is just an example of fiction following reality.

Look at a picture of a Hughes 500 helicopter and you'll understand why military folks ended up calling it an Egg with a ....

Well you fill it in.
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Taurevanime

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #65 on: 01 February 2013, 18:49:32 »
So, something I forgot to add initially, but that has always bugged me about the Stalker: the name.  You can't "stalk" anything with an 85 ton mech moving, at best, 54 kph.  Well, okay, maybe you could stalk an Annihilator, an Urbanmech, or an Omega, but surely there was a more fitting name for this beast.
Well I think it works more in the sense that it's a big heavy 'Mech that just keeps coming. It might be slow, but it will keep coming for you. It stalks you in that sense. It really works for the 7D in that sense. Since it is almost all energy weapons.

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #66 on: 01 February 2013, 18:55:44 »
Well I think it works more in the sense that it's a big heavy 'Mech that just keeps coming. It might be slow, but it will keep coming for you. It stalks you in that sense. It really works for the 7D in that sense. Since it is almost all energy weapons.

I've always have the image of the Stalker from the CityTech box. If you didn't have jump jets and one of these was stalking you in a city, we're talking pure terror. Imagine being the crew of those tanks.

Note- Course that art isn't the 3025 art and has issues.
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Isanova

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #67 on: 02 February 2013, 02:34:03 »

the first response to the sight of a Stalker is always that it [REDACTED] on legs, but this unfortunate similarity to a back massager is far from the full extent of it's design. the frontal profile of the mech is absolutely tiny for an 85-ton battlemech and much of its armor is angled to spread the effectiveness of a frontal attack across it or simply force it to glance off. even the cockpit window blends into these lines, a long, narrow stripe of visibility that is almost impossible to target from the ground.

The downside to this is that the weapons are all aligned very close together, limiting the 'mechs ease in maintaining fire on multiple targets, but as the bulk of a Stalker's effectiveness it dependent on how well it melts a target into tactically meaningless slag this is something of a lesser issue. the LRMs are placed as high as possible on the mech without making them break from the overall lines of the 'mech and are in a good position for both direct and indirect fire, and the myriad of lasers a Stalker possesses are all deeply set into the armor.


Well at least until you flip your arms for a turn, imagine each side torso of the mech flipped up and facing backwards like the awkward arms on the clan Fire Moth. I'd consider a vulnerability quirk here if I could figure out which one fits.
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Taurevanime

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #68 on: 02 February 2013, 02:40:36 »
I've always have the image of the Stalker from the CityTech box. If you didn't have jump jets and one of these was stalking you in a city, we're talking pure terror. Imagine being the crew of those tanks.

Note- Course that art isn't the 3025 art and has issues.
I do love that image, it really evokes the power of Battlemechs. I don't think there has been an image since of a 'Mech crashing through a building as a shortcut to cut down on an enemy. (Subtle hint towards the art department)

But yes, you can run from a Stalker, but you can't hide.

Also considering most types tend to have standard engines and are thus very durable, I am surprised there hasn't been a compact engine version to really try and ramp up the survivabillity.

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #69 on: 02 February 2013, 02:42:07 »
I forgot to mention, but home, I finally did my Stalker conversion, I just have yet to paint it. It solves the great mystery of how does a Stalker get up.

I took the spring from a ballpoint pin, cut off a one inch segment.  I glued one end to the back of the Stalker, and attached a small bit of plasticard that looks like armor to it.

I almost want to paint "Boing" in cartoonish letters on the side of the base.


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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #70 on: 02 February 2013, 03:07:58 »
I've always have the image of the Stalker from the CityTech box. If you didn't have jump jets and one of these was stalking you in a city, we're talking pure terror. Imagine being the crew of those tanks.

Note- Course that art isn't the 3025 art and has issues.
I do love that image, it really evokes the power of Battlemechs. I don't think there has been an image since of a 'Mech crashing through a building as a shortcut to cut down on an enemy. (Subtle hint towards the art department)

But yes, you can run from a Stalker, but you can't hide.

so someone should paint a stalker Red with a big black smiley face on the front? maybe "oh yeah" scrawled along one arm?

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #71 on: 02 February 2013, 09:22:08 »
I forgot to mention, but home, I finally did my Stalker conversion, I just have yet to paint it. It solves the great mystery of how does a Stalker get up.

I took the spring from a ballpoint pin, cut off a one inch segment.  I glued one end to the back of the Stalker, and attached a small bit of plasticard that looks like armor to it.

I almost want to paint "Boing" in cartoonish letters on the side of the base.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #72 on: 02 February 2013, 12:56:08 »
am good with the missle head with legs look as for the name just thinking if it like all those old slasher film.  Do you see Jason, Micheal or Frankenstein running?? no they are just walking.. and walking .. and somehow they get in front of people who are running away from them.   I do find it interesting that as good a as a mech it is.  I think it is better then an atlas.  It not a mech that tend to draw main character I guess it the lack of arms that make writers not want to use it for the fictional bad ass ride that it is

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #73 on: 02 February 2013, 17:53:20 »
Question to all: If they did a re-seen model/artwork for the Stalker the way they did for the unseen mechs, what would you imagine it's differences would be?
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martian

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #74 on: 02 February 2013, 18:09:20 »
Question to all: If they did a re-seen model/artwork for the Stalker the way they did for the unseen mechs, what would you imagine it's differences would be?

Probably blockier - similar treatment Reseen Longbow has got.

I guess weapon ports would be similar to Unseen model, even though there would be no weapon at that location.
What do I mean? Look at Reseen TDR-9M Thunderbolt. It has two holes in the right torso as for SRM-2 rack, although there is no such weapon present. But this detail makes it similar to old TDR-5S, should you wanna use this Reseen as a stand-in for old Unseen 'Mech.

I guess legs would be different, more "practical".

We have new Stalker from MechWarrior Online, and we can look at Mektek's idea from Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries.

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #75 on: 02 February 2013, 20:14:27 »
Well at least until you flip your arms for a turn, imagine each side torso of the mech flipped up and facing backwards like the awkward arms on the clan Fire Moth. I'd consider a vulnerability quirk here if I could figure out which one fits.

Assuming that the "shoulder" of the Stalker's arm is where it would be on a vertical torso, yes. i however will make no such assumption when it's just as possible for that joint to be on the torso. now, if you have some canon material showing a Stalker with flipped arms that's altogether different and i'd love to see it myself.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #76 on: 02 February 2013, 21:05:15 »
An 85 ton BEAST.

Ugly as sin mech but a literal walking gun and missile battery makes this mech one for the ages.

Great write up.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #77 on: 02 February 2013, 21:44:03 »
Question to all: If they did a re-seen model/artwork for the Stalker the way they did for the unseen mechs, what would you imagine it's differences would be?

agreed maybe blokier so it look l less like a walking symbol of sexual agression and maybe make the lines more realistic particular the arm weapons so you can tell if they flip or not

master arminas

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #78 on: 02 February 2013, 22:02:51 »
Question to all: If they did a re-seen model/artwork for the Stalker the way they did for the unseen mechs, what would you imagine it's differences would be?

Like this:



MA
« Last Edit: 02 February 2013, 22:04:44 by master arminas »

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #79 on: 02 February 2013, 22:34:02 »
Like this:



MA
Is the torso twisted or something?  The legs look like they're on backwards. Look at the way the 'toes' are apparently pointed.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #80 on: 02 February 2013, 23:20:38 »
Is the torso twisted or something?  The legs look like they're on backwards. Look at the way the 'toes' are apparently pointed.

pretty much all the "non-humaniod" 'mech designs have the legs backwards like that, i think it's to make the style more homogenous from 'mech to 'mech. i don't like it myself, but for the amount of firepower you get with a Stalker i'm gonna have to bite that bullet as soon as my computer can handle it.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #81 on: 03 February 2013, 13:38:57 »
pretty much all the "non-humaniod" 'mech designs have the legs backwards like that, i think it's to make the style more homogenous from 'mech to 'mech. i don't like it myself, but for the amount of firepower you get with a Stalker i'm gonna have to bite that bullet as soon as my computer can handle it.

Yeah, I always found it strange that they kept the legs digitigrade like a human for the Jenner in MWO, but went ahead and switched the Stalker to reverse digitigrade.  Very strange.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #82 on: 03 February 2013, 17:04:22 »
The Stalker is so front heavy (especially in the 3025 artwork) that the move was probably to make it look somewhat feasible with the legs putting the feet closer to the mech's actual CoG

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #83 on: 04 February 2013, 03:19:52 »
Another thing might be that humans have an intimate knowledge with how plantigrade bipedal motion is supposed to look, so anything that isn't good will just look off to our brains for some reason. Changing the type of leg configuration takes it away and despite similar levels of competency, to our brains it looks more natural because it doesn't look as unnatural.

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #84 on: 04 February 2013, 09:42:09 »
It's not the knees that get me, it's the feet.  Is there anything in nature with toes that has them all pointing away from the direction of travel?  What purpose would that serve?  (Yes, yes, I know a stalker's pretty far from anything natural, but I'd still think the general layout would have some sort of basis in real world critters somewhere).
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #85 on: 04 February 2013, 16:49:03 »
Other than the feet being off that was a cool pic.
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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #86 on: 04 February 2013, 18:33:21 »
It's not the knees that get me, it's the feet.  Is there anything in nature with toes that has them all pointing away from the direction of travel?  What purpose would that serve?  (Yes, yes, I know a stalker's pretty far from anything natural, but I'd still think the general layout would have some sort of basis in real world critters somewhere).

In a way, it makes sense.  It speads out of the weight of the 'Mech more towards the center of mass, which look like they are behind the ankle joints.  If those 'toes' were forward, they wouldn't act to counter the weight being towards the rear.  I agree, it does look strange, but other than that, I love the MWO Stalker pic.

MA

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #87 on: 04 February 2013, 21:48:14 »
It's not the knees that get me, it's the feet.  Is there anything in nature with toes that has them all pointing away from the direction of travel?  What purpose would that serve?  (Yes, yes, I know a stalker's pretty far from anything natural, but I'd still think the general layout would have some sort of basis in real world critters somewhere).

They help provide flexibility for the internally mounted rear deployed giant spring system that makes the Stalker stand up when it falls--but you just can't see that now because they don't have colliisons on in the game.

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #88 on: 06 February 2013, 07:27:38 »
Ah, the assault wiener. You got to love it.

Let me just quip in and say one or two words about the NARC launcher. As someone who tries his level best to play a real Marik force the way it was intended and described in the fluff, i gave the whole NARC idea some thought. Things you might want to consider:

1.) Every stupid LRM Carrier can use NARC missiles. LRMs are not impressive weapons. Solution: Take lots of them. I mean lots. Lots lots.

2.) LRMs are great for city fighting. Yes, they are, don´t let anyone tell you otherwise. There is literally no terrain which lets you break LOS so easily. Indirect fire is your friend. Indirect fire is best at a range of 7 hexes. NARC makes indirect fire possible even without sacrificing some poor foot-sluggers to use as spotters. (And i have led my share of PBIs to the gallows, just to have another round of LRM carnage.)
Indirect fire is the one feature that makes LRMs great long range weapons. For direct long range fire you should rather consider the Gauss family or the PPC.

3.) My personal pet peeve is that there are almost no NARC carrying Marik Mechs. I was green with envy when i saw that DCMS light Mech with the funny fins on his head in TRO 3055. [EDIT: Looked it up, i meant the Hitman!] So you go with what you have. And the Stalker is one option. And he is a great city fighter.

So, I do not say NARC is the best solution out there. It is a weapon meant as a force multiplier in big engagements. Let´s say company level plus attached conventional units. It is also a force multiplier because it practically creates line of sight where otherwise there is none (cities, hills, dense forests) - if you have enough LRMs that is. And not by accident this kind of terrain is also where the paltry range of 9 hexes does not matter. That is where it shines.
Running into an alley and standing in front of a Stalker is scary. But should you survive the first salvo, the real nightmare is yet to come when the sky darkens from LRMs bearing down on you by multiple low cost, usually irrelevant vehicles or even infantry.

My greatest problem with the NARC-Stalker is, that the NARC is not where it should be. Put it in the arms, for assault wiener´s sake! As others have pointed out, people generally avoid to get close to Stalkers. But if they do, you can bet they try to get behind it. What a beautiful moment that would be to just flip your arms and slap a beacon on these pesky backstabbers.
« Last Edit: 06 February 2013, 07:33:21 by Molossian Dog IIC »

garhkal

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Re: Mech of the Week: STK-series Stalker
« Reply #89 on: 06 February 2013, 17:08:51 »
Of the newer tech that came out with the rediscovery of star league tech..  If you could only have 2 pieces of tech on a stalker, which would it be>

For me its easy.
Double heat sinks and
AMS!
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.